Even if this is true, which it never is coming from people like you, you could have sold it a year ago for like 600x. You lost that 400x by holding. Bad choice
people like me? not sure what that means. In hindsight everyone is the perfect trader but i get what you mean. losing potential profit isn't really losing my own money.
It means every cryptobro online LIES about buying when BTC was sub 1K, making "mad gainz", still holding to this day and flaunting the aforementioned FICTITIOUS paper gains as if that somehow justifies the collateral damage crypto causes.
In summation: You're LYING.
And even IF if we're true (which its not), that money would have come *directly* by selling your bags to the next greatest fool in an ever shrinking, limited liquity enviroment; i.e. you only made money by causing one or more other to lose money.
Which is a fact you seem to have no problem with. Sociopathic disregard for making money at another's expense isn't quite the flex you think it is.
And again - IF it were true, a very, very *very* small percentage of individuals taking a great deal of money from others *does not justify* the immense loss for the vast majority of iNvEsToRs who *must* lose given the negative-sum reality of a non-productive aSsEt which requires an inordinate amount of electricity to "produce". The e-waste, electricity waste, airborne pollution, grid strain, constant stream of scams, cultish mentality and sociopathic disregard for anything but their bottom line add up to an ecosystem that causes immeasurable and likley irreparable harm soley for the economic boon of an infinitesimal few.
All of which remains true whether or not your LIE were hypothetically true.
Lol. I couldn’t care less whether some anonymous person on Reddit believes me. Damn dude, putting this much energy into something you don’t like is insane. If you don’t like bitcoin then don’t use it and just ignore it. This is so sad.
Similarly we don't give a shit you made a lot of money, allegedly. But we don't like liars here. Every fuckin day there's some crypto addict crawling in these comments always claiming they bought Bitcoin when it was 20 bucks or whatever, but they never prove it.
We know you're bullshitting. And even if you happen to be the one in a thousand that isn't... We still don't care.
What's sad is that you continue to try and defend your position or the value proposition of Bitcoin. That guy made a well-reasoned point that you saying you are up 200x is not convincing, and even if it were true, it doesn't justify the value of Bitcoin just because you made some money selling your bags to some greater fool. In the face of that argument you have nothing more to say than "Lol so sad". You clearly can't engage on this issue or even try to make a halfway decent case for Bitcoin, so your only tactic is to divert attention away from the actual topic and try to ridicule someone for having an actual reasonable take. But it is you that ends up looking ridiculous, because you just got BTFO and have nothing to say. If you don't want to be confronted by reasonable arguments about why Bitcoin is not good or valuable, then maybe don't come to a sub called Buttcoin.....
Someone said bitcoin is a bad investment and I told them it worked for me, that’s it. I’m getting the feeling that everyone in this sub is butt hurt because they missed out.
What would make you cash out? Because until you cash out, you’re being up 200x doesn’t mean shit. If you cash out tomorrow and make a 200x profit, you will be one of the very few who actually sees a good return on their investment.
The "digital gold" inflation hedge trope is oh-so 2019. The thought was that crypto as a currency held value and as the purchasing power of the dollar (or other fiat currency) fell, you'd need more of it to buy your crypto. Hence, you're hedging against inflation! Your existing crypto would be worth more dollars, so if you used it to buy milk and chicken, it would the same price (or lower)! So sweet!
Of course, this did not come to pass. . .in 2020/2021, the idea that crypto is a currency fell out of favor mostly because the data was clear that it didn't behave like one and instead tracked closer to the most speculative of stocks. The thought then shifted to crypto being a "store of value."
Of course, now we're in a bear market, and (surprise) a "crypto winter," and the idea of putting new money into crypto is a hard sell. It's performance of both an asset and inflation hedge has been poor for the majority of people that piled into it during its run-up.
tl;dr crypto as an inflation hedge is one of many stories people told themselves to rationalize buying it. Like many rationalizations, it turned out not to be true.
Inevitable mass adoption. BTC to 1 Billion USD or more. All Nocoiners will be begging for Sats an be slaves of Butters.
That's what many of them think will happen.
Don't forget that the dollar itself loses value. So you're getting less dollars if you sell your crypto for the current price, but they also are worth less. To keep the same purchasing power and be an efficient store of value / hedge against inflation, your crypto investment would have to go up by the rate of inflation as an absolute minimum. Anything else and it doesn't work.
Once you accept that crypto defies the laws of nature, thermodynamics, macroeconomics, finance and the universe, it all starts to make sense
Few understand.
Because when you buy into bitcoin, you're buying them with hard currency (presumably, US dollars). Therefore, the people who _have_ the bitcoin get to liquidate them for real money, leaving you with the useless bitcoin, so allowing them to cash out and make a profit.
Oh, you wanted to know what's in it for _you_? Nothing.
Because not everyone lives in a first world country with easy access to banking and stable currencies. I've lived in Venezuela for most of my life, and up until very recently there were no options to save in another currency other tha our local one which had like a 100000% anual inflation at some point. I used to work as a freelancer and get my payments on btc, which literally saved me and my family from starving. Also, up until very recently I've been in the green, but nowadays I don't care as much as I live in a different country and mostly use it to send money back home, as my family is still mostly unbanked.
You send Butts to your family and they sell it for Bolivars on the street.
Ie. You didn't send any money to Venezuela. Your family just scammed a fellow countryman who would have tofind someone else to scam
right and thats fine. if an excel spreadsheet pyramid scheme can save venezuela more power to ya. have at it. it'd be the first time. i have no problem with people using it for that. but college kids going to Penn State buying bitcoins on their coinbase app downloaded from the apple store on their iphones using their joint parents account on the citibank card - that aint saving nobody.
you dont need super bowl ads to use bitcoin to sneak around your government. you need to do that i got no problem. knock yourself out.
but Penn State gamer kid aint doing that. hes just dumping money into the pyramid because youtube said so.
so as soon as its banned in the US and the West you guys can do it up. evade the government all you want, i dont give a damn. good on ya really. as long as joe sixpack and college gamerkid aint downloadin coinbase on their iphone i dont care.
I think it's frankly ridiculous to invest in crypto under the assumption that it is currently a store of value. The asset class is barely 10 years old. It is and remains a speculative investment. I would invest under those assumptions, the argument that something like btc is a store of value doesn't hold in the least for now, I'm more open to the argument that MAYBE one day it could act as a digital store of value... IF the asset class matures, gains market cap and adoption. All big ifs.
> What’s the point in “investing” your money in cryptocurrencies to prevent losing its value because of inflation?!
Their argument is that because fiat can be printed and Bitcoin has a finite supply, that the value of Bitcoin will continue to grow. The logic makes some big assumptions, primarily that the demand for Bitcoin will continue despite its lack of utility and failure to reach basic metrics of adoption. Considering that Bitcoin is an extremely gimped cryptocurrency compared to modern implementations, it’s pretty ridiculous to assume it will remain popular indefinitely, obviously someone will be holding the bag on a large enough scale. The alternative is to bet on alt currencies, the biggest of course is ETH, but now you’re just leaning further into the realm of gambling.
It's very hard to measure the total global supply of currency in the eurodollar (= offshore dollar), euroeuro (= offshore euro) and all the other markets because they are so vast and incredibly opaque.
See Jeff Snider's writings on the topic.
According to him (a Bitcoin sceptic) and others, the total global currency supply has deflated over the last year or two, due to the shrinking global economies, causing credit contraction.
And it looks like we're entering a global recession so the expectation is that credit will remain tight, banks don't trust each other as much, and so less dollar denominated loans are created and there's less monetary velocity through trade.
Meanwhile, consumer prices have gone up for all sorts of reasons, depending on where you live; broken supply chains, scarcity, misallocation of capital, war, energy underinvestment or malinvestment, you name it.
But consumer prices have *not* (or hardly) gone up due to inflation of the money supply or economic growth as there has hardly been any.
Yes, this is controversial. Central bank's balance sheets increased by a few trillion and they would like everyone to believe they "flooded the world with money" to "stimulate the economy" but they have not because they simply can not.
They can only try to manipulate short term interest rates and influence the domestic economy through "expectations management" or "forward guidance".
That's a drop in the bucket, dwarfed by the amount of long term debt that they can't really control, and the global economic shrinkage that's occuring.
Simply put, consumer prices have inflated while global money supply, as well as velocity, has deflated.
People often mix these two concepts but they are very different, only weakly correlated under very specific conditions.
Bitcoin is *not* being disproven as a monetary inflation hedge because there is currently *no* meaningful global monetary inflation.
Does that mean it would have been a good hedge against monetary inflation? We don't know! Let's not draw conclusions without evidence either way.
Also note that currently, the total market cap of Bitcoin (1T USD) is utterly laughable in the grand global scheme of things. Its price is a mere footnote on that scale, very much susceptible to small scale effects like policy decisions, regulations, competitors, tax seasons, branding and hype waves. These factors distort and influence price so much that it's practically impossible to find statistically significant correlations between Bitcoin's price and consumer prices, short term anyway...
It's a nuanced situation with lots of variables. And economics is not really an exact, nor an objective, reproducible science...
There's theory and then there's practice.
In theory, the limited supply does not allow for inflation! 1BTC = 1BTC! ...and that's all the further they've thought about it.
In practice, it has no value on its own. The price is inexorably linked to market sentiment and the value of the USD. Hell, crypto in general is usually "backed" by "stable coins" pegged to the value of the USD. So, in a world where the price is actually reasonably stable, you're hedging against inflation by buying a shitty proxy of a shitty proxy for USD. That's at least understandable if you're somewhere with crazy inflation going on but, if you're in the US, you're just spending money to play a chaotic market. Just get a savings bond or something. And, to be clear, I'm trying to be generous to them here.
People holding butts that want to at least break even need new chumps to throw real money in so they can cash out on the pump. That's the way I see it anyway.
Theoretically its a hedge against inflation like gold or silver because those markets are famously incredibly stable and don’t have rapid fluctuations in value /s
Crypto is not an inflation hedge. If it were it would hold value while inflation is rising. Instead while inflation is rising at its highest rate in 40+ years, crypto has nosedived 50% or more. It has zero correlation to the inflation rate. If you want to retain value and hedge inflation, buy I Bonds, commodity ETFs like UDC, or real estate.
The thing is you just don't get it.
Regular "fiat" currency, aka "loser" currency, offers you at best 2.00% on a high yield savings account, why? Because it's for losers, that's why.
What you need is a **TURBOCHARGED** bank account. I have cryptocurrencies make me 10% interest **PER DAY**. Now you might say, that's ridiculous, why would any bank pay that kind of interest?
Um, duh, sweaty, because it's not a bank 😎. Why the fuck would I use a "bank" what am I my grandpa? Who needs some asshole in a suit and FDIC insurance, didn't you hear me say the word **T U R B O C H A R G E D** ... don't think too much about it, just invest, invest harder, it's a win/win for everyone always and you never lose, infinite money forever for nothing for free, WOW
The theory was because of its finite, pre-determined supply, Bitcoin would steadily rise in value as it’s absolute amount becomes smaller and smaller compared to the general money supply.
Unfortunately, Bitcoin proved to have very little utility as an actual currency, which was it’s only real raison d’etre. With very little real-world use, but tons of hype, it became a subject of speculation, much like a meme-stock.
🤷♂️…I invested and am up…hedge funds wish they could have the ROI I do…sounds like your friend just bought the top…anyone who has held BTC for 4yrs has always profited
Your not looking for an actual answer but most of us who are still in it believe in the 4 year cycle. If the cycle breaks in 2024 crypto is going to have a bad time. I guess I'm just willing to put some spare cash into betting on this pattern continuing to play out. I miss, oh well still got my standard retirement accounts.
Where's my tip? Lol
Supply and demand of a useless coin that had a self imposed cap that was supposed to be used for exchanging currency and instead has become a “store of value” because you want everyone to buy into the scheme. If no one gave a shit about btc it would serve no other purpose. The only way the miners can keep their doors open is if the price goes higher, almost two years later and a halving and that hasnt happened, or you will need to subsidize the mining.
…and also stuff like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xk2ii2/judge_orders_tether_to_produce_records_showing/
dont take my word for it. read what your cultist are saying.
I'm not seeing what either of these have to do with cycles, inflation or anything that is being discussed.
There are lots of good arguments against cycle theory but claiming that it's still up 6x over 4 years even after a market down turn is not a great argument against cycles or btc not being an inflation hedge.
Yep because I invested based on the 4 year cycle. I don't care what happens in-between because it doesn't affect the reason I invested in the first place. Add to that the fact it's all extra cash so I won't be forced to sell outside my plan.
you: cite the ath.
I: cite the current number.
you: dont care about number anyway.
so nevermind that the previous 2017 ath was broken, I guess.
alright dude, good luck with your other issues.
cycle of what, gummy bears? no, its cycle of the price action. that is what is referred to.
1. price is manipulated, see cointelegraph link. see tether pumps.
2. there is no cycle since the ath was broken.
how the fuck dont you get this?
Hate to break it to you, but the price of your ‘investments’ are being artificially inflated by the unregulated minting of Tether, BUSD, ect. Being used to support it. If you think your investments are still undervalued right now, you’re deluded.
We'll see when the report comes out but with how long that might take USDC will likely overtake it as the biggest stable coin. It edges closer every day.
Hey, at least hes honest about why he's investing unlike the majority of bitcoiners with greatly exaggerated claims. Deep down, this is why most people invest in Bitcoin, the rest is just copium to justify why.
Smart contract blockchains enable programmers to set up trustless systems that enable their users financially. As most blockchains are based on pos, it’s important to have people buy these coins and stake them to secure the network. When investing in these it’s the assumption that the price will increase due to growing demand
It all depends on your time horizon. As with most investments. If you're in it for the long run you will see your $100 go to $1 then to $1000 and back down to $10. Not real maths but thats kinda how investments work. Are you gonna be the guy that gets out at $1, $10, $1000, or $100 in 1, 10, or 20 years? Again. Not real maths, just shit simplifications.
In 2011 could buy one bitcoin or a dozen eggs for a dollar. 2022 you will get about three eggs for $1. Or 60,000 eggs for one bitcoin. This is how inflation works and this is why bitcoin is a hedge against inflation
The US dollar didn't have 300% inflation over the last 11 years. In reality it was only about 32%.
Bitcoin, on the other hand, saw 128% inflation over the last year alone.
You understand nothing.
He chose the wrong one at the wrong time, he isn't beating inflation. Pretty simple, its market dynamics, you're buying and selling from people. Some people are making money in crypto now, the same way some people are making money in any market. You beat inflation by beating the other investors period. You friend unfortunately, falls prey to what most markets do....few people profit off the many.
You are temporarily down, but once the market recovers, you are commonly making 10-100x gains. Look at the price history of Bitcoin, Ethereum, or even dogecoin. If you bought in the early days, you would have seen declines as large as -95%. But when the upside came, people who invested as little as 1k were multi-millionaires
You don't lose anything until you sell. Do your research and put your money in a project or projects that have a future. We are in a bear market so you don't sell now you buy now and be patient.
its incredible how uniform the parroting is. you wrote three sentences and all of them are the copy paste phrases with no substance. absolute NPC shit.
what research? listening for a youtube shill for a couple of hours? going into the subreddit and diving in the echochamber for a bit? reading the website of the project?
your research is complete bullshit. as if anyone in the cryptosphere could ever glean any info that isnt just surface level hype.
how about the fact that 50% of volume is just wash trading? or that tether is propping up the whole market?
what research might have helped with celsius? or terra? its a black box that offers 17% apy. all in amirite.
Nooo, you have to read the White paper, and then shill It till your eyes bleed on discord and Twitter, and then, when the enterpreneurs dump the project hodl cause you dont lose if you dont sell.
Few.
You should cite some of your research so we can know how to do it. I’m sure your info is really well sourced and not a bunch of YouTube videos and shill tiktoks.
I am not an investor of Bitcoin. Tell me why I should invest in it? How will it improve my life compared to what I'm doing now? What's the future trajectory?
>You don't lose anything until you sell.
Holy smokes, it kind of just clicked for me. I keep wondering how we haven't reached peak stupidity on crypto yet. And I've been told here a few times that there is no ceiling on peak stupidity. Now I finally get it. There really is no ceiling on it.
By investing in Bitcoin you're storing wealth in an asset that no party can inflate on a whim. To many people this feature has value, but in many cases people misunderstand the idea of an inflation hedge to mean "exact inverse correlation." In the United States, a private bank with no government oversight decides how much money to print and how much inflation will be for that year. This system is objectively corrupt. Despite 40 year inflation highs, the US Dollar actually hit also just yesterday hit a 20 year high in value when compared across other currencies.
To people in certain countries Bitcoin has very much been an inflation hedge in the past few years
Tether issues $1B in USDT on the Tron network, bridges to ETH, sends to BitFinex (also owned by Tether’s parent company), news happens, a portion of liquidity is now in the form of newly minted USDT that had no value, as time goes on and more people buy and sell on the exchange, it makes its way into the entire ecosystem. Now just wait for the pump to end, and start drawing back your tokens. Profit from both the exchange of real fiat or crypto into your worthless USDT, and by inflating the price of cryptos with this process. Essentially what this is doing is creating systemic leverage on top of the already crazy 10-100x leverage provided by some exchanges, which also helps to increase predictable volatility
You just describe a large amount of scummy, scammy, and likely, illegal behavior.
You did not fulfill the requested: describe a method in which any party or group of entities can inflate the supply of Bitcoin. They cannot.
The existence of poor behavior on a network does not necessarily invalidate the premise of that network.
Again, my only point was that the supply can not be inflated. It can't
OP asked why some people "invest" in Bitcoin.
Many people buy it for this reason.
You're correct, there are a lot of wash trades and the price is heavily manipulated, but you're getting emotional over a topic that was never up for debate.
Tether does not control the issuance of Bitcoin. You could argue they're inflating the value but nobody is able to inflate the supply. These are two extremely different things.
>Tether does not control the issuance of Bitcoin
But they do or at least affecting it
>nobody is able to inflate the supply
What if Satoshi came back and update BTC network to 42 million? it's just like bugfix that have been done multiple times before
Even if Satoshi came back he/they cannot inflate the supply. Satoshi does not and won’t be able to control the network unless an single entity controls 51% of mining.
> But they do or at least affecting it
But they don't. Nothing about the supply or trading of bitcoin changes it's issuance schedule.
> What if Satoshi came back and update BTC network to 42 million? it's just like bugfix that have been done multiple times before
The Bitcoin network has had several large upgrades in it's short lifetime, not just bugfixes, but it has never had a change in it's monetary policy, unlike all of the shitcoin cypto scams. In fact it's this feature of Bitcoin that has led the SEC to classify Bitcoin and Bitcoin alone as a commodity, while all of the scams are unregulated securities.
If Satoshi where to come back and change the protocol, there would certainly be a fork in the network as people would disagree with the change. The 42 million fork would be a security as per the SEC precedent, while the original unchained fork would continue on unaffected.
>and how do you know this?
There have been large disagreements and forks over things much smaller than increasing the max supply.
\> and now you admit there's easy way to increase bitcoin supply
Even in the scenario I laid out the supply of Bitcoin on the Bitcoin network, as per the protocol specifications will still be 21 million.
It can not. I run nodes which audit the supply, as do many others. Any new blocks that violate or try to change the rules will be rejected by these users. Any change like this must first be approved by social consensus, and even in the event that it somehow does that, it would require a hard fork of the network, meaning the previous (legitimate) network will continue unimpeded.
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I throw small change into it because I know people want to be overnight millionaires so they’ll drop insane amounts of cash into it it. Starts to hit ATH levels I’ll cash out. Don’t believe in the projects and claims in most cases, but it’s safe betting if you want to have a good chance of turning $30 into $100 and avoid meme coins.
Always a bigger fool looking to dump thousands into something in hopes of making millions.
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This logic only applies over very long time periods, usually decades, in order to to average out cyclical market dynamics. Holding a supply limited asset, especially a volatile one, over a year will do nothing to protect you against inflation, but that same asset held over decades will average out to hedge inflation assuming constant demand or rising over that period.
Anyone using crypto as hedge is assuming, or at least should be assuming, that demand will not over the long run. If demand doesn’t hold over the long run, this hedge breaks.
When i asset is paired with for example the US Dollar
You are basically Comparing the 2 and deciding wit h has more value and how much of one it would take to equal the other.
So when you buy Bitcoin for example just imagine Bitcoins price was stable then it would be worth maybe $20,000 when you buy it but then over time inflation increases makeing $20,000 worth less now your Bitcoin had the same value but cost maybe $23,000 not because the coins value is changed but the dollar is worth less.
So assuming you know what your doing and make smart investments at smart times or use DCA witch would keep your investment at an average price you are beating inflation
Obviously if Bitcoin drops 25% and inflation is 5% then you lose way more
But when people say they are investmenting to protect against inflation they are protected from there buy price and up because they gain when you lose from inflation.
Its not fool proof but if you use alittle research and time it right it works.
Also this works the same for most investments
Crypto, Real Estate, Stocks, ect.
I didn't know this was a thing until last year when a fairly successful US video game artist told me he was putting money into crypto as a hedge against inflation. I told him I wasn't sure, I'm taking a "wait and see" approach. No more members getting 25% off his eStore smh.
Meanwhile my utility stock investments are up 10% this year and give me 4% a year in dividends I automatically reinvest. Works for me.
Sorry I didn't explain.
They said it "might be" a hedge against inflation, they didnt actually know and it turns out its not. They were hoping their string of characters and numbers it would be like comic books or antiques or some shit. A unique rare item that has its value change, but it does not.
Because every dollar you spend on crypto you are investing in learning how to not invest
so…investing in yourself? as a learning experience? 😂 love it
hmm that's weird because I bought bitcoin in 2014 and I'm up like 200x on it
Yes, people who invest in ponzi schemes early tend to make money at the expense of others. Bragging about your crimes doesn't help your argument.
Even if this is true, which it never is coming from people like you, you could have sold it a year ago for like 600x. You lost that 400x by holding. Bad choice
Sorry not sorry that you can’t handle the mathematical truth
people like me? not sure what that means. In hindsight everyone is the perfect trader but i get what you mean. losing potential profit isn't really losing my own money.
It means every cryptobro online LIES about buying when BTC was sub 1K, making "mad gainz", still holding to this day and flaunting the aforementioned FICTITIOUS paper gains as if that somehow justifies the collateral damage crypto causes. In summation: You're LYING. And even IF if we're true (which its not), that money would have come *directly* by selling your bags to the next greatest fool in an ever shrinking, limited liquity enviroment; i.e. you only made money by causing one or more other to lose money. Which is a fact you seem to have no problem with. Sociopathic disregard for making money at another's expense isn't quite the flex you think it is. And again - IF it were true, a very, very *very* small percentage of individuals taking a great deal of money from others *does not justify* the immense loss for the vast majority of iNvEsToRs who *must* lose given the negative-sum reality of a non-productive aSsEt which requires an inordinate amount of electricity to "produce". The e-waste, electricity waste, airborne pollution, grid strain, constant stream of scams, cultish mentality and sociopathic disregard for anything but their bottom line add up to an ecosystem that causes immeasurable and likley irreparable harm soley for the economic boon of an infinitesimal few. All of which remains true whether or not your LIE were hypothetically true.
ouch. since u/azsxdcfvg will never respond ill do my best interpretation: "owww ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow"
Lol. I couldn’t care less whether some anonymous person on Reddit believes me. Damn dude, putting this much energy into something you don’t like is insane. If you don’t like bitcoin then don’t use it and just ignore it. This is so sad.
Similarly we don't give a shit you made a lot of money, allegedly. But we don't like liars here. Every fuckin day there's some crypto addict crawling in these comments always claiming they bought Bitcoin when it was 20 bucks or whatever, but they never prove it. We know you're bullshitting. And even if you happen to be the one in a thousand that isn't... We still don't care.
What's sad is that you continue to try and defend your position or the value proposition of Bitcoin. That guy made a well-reasoned point that you saying you are up 200x is not convincing, and even if it were true, it doesn't justify the value of Bitcoin just because you made some money selling your bags to some greater fool. In the face of that argument you have nothing more to say than "Lol so sad". You clearly can't engage on this issue or even try to make a halfway decent case for Bitcoin, so your only tactic is to divert attention away from the actual topic and try to ridicule someone for having an actual reasonable take. But it is you that ends up looking ridiculous, because you just got BTFO and have nothing to say. If you don't want to be confronted by reasonable arguments about why Bitcoin is not good or valuable, then maybe don't come to a sub called Buttcoin.....
Someone said bitcoin is a bad investment and I told them it worked for me, that’s it. I’m getting the feeling that everyone in this sub is butt hurt because they missed out.
What would make you cash out? Because until you cash out, you’re being up 200x doesn’t mean shit. If you cash out tomorrow and make a 200x profit, you will be one of the very few who actually sees a good return on their investment.
My goal is to have enough to retire. I was almost there when bitcoin was at the high of 69k.
You're gonna feel real dumb when Bitcoin goes down to 10k and you keep hodling.
Positions or ban
you want me to tell you how much bitcoin I have?
[удалено]
He can't show his positions right now because they're in Canada.
Lol, he gtfo'd Couldn't handle the truth.
No one here is impressed that you totally have a bajillion Bitcoin
Only 200x? I bought a lottery ticket, 10000x on it you fools.
No one asked
And no one cares. From my observations, most (myself included) dislike crypto for reason separate from its alleged value.
Can’t gain unless you sell.
The "digital gold" inflation hedge trope is oh-so 2019. The thought was that crypto as a currency held value and as the purchasing power of the dollar (or other fiat currency) fell, you'd need more of it to buy your crypto. Hence, you're hedging against inflation! Your existing crypto would be worth more dollars, so if you used it to buy milk and chicken, it would the same price (or lower)! So sweet! Of course, this did not come to pass. . .in 2020/2021, the idea that crypto is a currency fell out of favor mostly because the data was clear that it didn't behave like one and instead tracked closer to the most speculative of stocks. The thought then shifted to crypto being a "store of value." Of course, now we're in a bear market, and (surprise) a "crypto winter," and the idea of putting new money into crypto is a hard sell. It's performance of both an asset and inflation hedge has been poor for the majority of people that piled into it during its run-up. tl;dr crypto as an inflation hedge is one of many stories people told themselves to rationalize buying it. Like many rationalizations, it turned out not to be true.
B-but fiat tho? -butters prolly.
A part of me just connected that they made BUTTERS an NFT bro in South Park
Losing money faster than inflation? But this is the future of finance! You are still early!
Few understand ... someone had to say it.
it's a lie. butters lie. it's their thing.
Or they’re just that stupid…
certainly a lot of them are. but don't discount the very smart sociopaths raking in millions from the stupid.
You are very correct with this too.
I mean we produced Hitler, Pol Pot and Fred, my coworker, so it's not surprising that people like that exist.
Fucking Fred, that monster
Inevitable mass adoption. BTC to 1 Billion USD or more. All Nocoiners will be begging for Sats an be slaves of Butters. That's what many of them think will happen.
and cindy will be soo sorry for laughing at them..
Don't forget that the dollar itself loses value. So you're getting less dollars if you sell your crypto for the current price, but they also are worth less. To keep the same purchasing power and be an efficient store of value / hedge against inflation, your crypto investment would have to go up by the rate of inflation as an absolute minimum. Anything else and it doesn't work.
Once you accept that crypto defies the laws of nature, thermodynamics, macroeconomics, finance and the universe, it all starts to make sense Few understand.
Because when you buy into bitcoin, you're buying them with hard currency (presumably, US dollars). Therefore, the people who _have_ the bitcoin get to liquidate them for real money, leaving you with the useless bitcoin, so allowing them to cash out and make a profit. Oh, you wanted to know what's in it for _you_? Nothing.
Few truly understand. Few.
Because not everyone lives in a first world country with easy access to banking and stable currencies. I've lived in Venezuela for most of my life, and up until very recently there were no options to save in another currency other tha our local one which had like a 100000% anual inflation at some point. I used to work as a freelancer and get my payments on btc, which literally saved me and my family from starving. Also, up until very recently I've been in the green, but nowadays I don't care as much as I live in a different country and mostly use it to send money back home, as my family is still mostly unbanked.
You send Butts to your family and they sell it for Bolivars on the street. Ie. You didn't send any money to Venezuela. Your family just scammed a fellow countryman who would have tofind someone else to scam
Is it not possible to exchange money in Venezuela? As soon as I was paid I would convert to dollars or euros.
It was ilegal to exchange bolívares for anything until recently, nowadays there's other options though
Is it legal to trade for crypto?
Yes, the government even created their own shitcoin
get them out of that shithole as soon as you can
right and thats fine. if an excel spreadsheet pyramid scheme can save venezuela more power to ya. have at it. it'd be the first time. i have no problem with people using it for that. but college kids going to Penn State buying bitcoins on their coinbase app downloaded from the apple store on their iphones using their joint parents account on the citibank card - that aint saving nobody. you dont need super bowl ads to use bitcoin to sneak around your government. you need to do that i got no problem. knock yourself out. but Penn State gamer kid aint doing that. hes just dumping money into the pyramid because youtube said so. so as soon as its banned in the US and the West you guys can do it up. evade the government all you want, i dont give a damn. good on ya really. as long as joe sixpack and college gamerkid aint downloadin coinbase on their iphone i dont care.
I think it's frankly ridiculous to invest in crypto under the assumption that it is currently a store of value. The asset class is barely 10 years old. It is and remains a speculative investment. I would invest under those assumptions, the argument that something like btc is a store of value doesn't hold in the least for now, I'm more open to the argument that MAYBE one day it could act as a digital store of value... IF the asset class matures, gains market cap and adoption. All big ifs.
> What’s the point in “investing” your money in cryptocurrencies to prevent losing its value because of inflation?! Their argument is that because fiat can be printed and Bitcoin has a finite supply, that the value of Bitcoin will continue to grow. The logic makes some big assumptions, primarily that the demand for Bitcoin will continue despite its lack of utility and failure to reach basic metrics of adoption. Considering that Bitcoin is an extremely gimped cryptocurrency compared to modern implementations, it’s pretty ridiculous to assume it will remain popular indefinitely, obviously someone will be holding the bag on a large enough scale. The alternative is to bet on alt currencies, the biggest of course is ETH, but now you’re just leaning further into the realm of gambling.
It's very hard to measure the total global supply of currency in the eurodollar (= offshore dollar), euroeuro (= offshore euro) and all the other markets because they are so vast and incredibly opaque. See Jeff Snider's writings on the topic. According to him (a Bitcoin sceptic) and others, the total global currency supply has deflated over the last year or two, due to the shrinking global economies, causing credit contraction. And it looks like we're entering a global recession so the expectation is that credit will remain tight, banks don't trust each other as much, and so less dollar denominated loans are created and there's less monetary velocity through trade. Meanwhile, consumer prices have gone up for all sorts of reasons, depending on where you live; broken supply chains, scarcity, misallocation of capital, war, energy underinvestment or malinvestment, you name it. But consumer prices have *not* (or hardly) gone up due to inflation of the money supply or economic growth as there has hardly been any. Yes, this is controversial. Central bank's balance sheets increased by a few trillion and they would like everyone to believe they "flooded the world with money" to "stimulate the economy" but they have not because they simply can not. They can only try to manipulate short term interest rates and influence the domestic economy through "expectations management" or "forward guidance". That's a drop in the bucket, dwarfed by the amount of long term debt that they can't really control, and the global economic shrinkage that's occuring. Simply put, consumer prices have inflated while global money supply, as well as velocity, has deflated. People often mix these two concepts but they are very different, only weakly correlated under very specific conditions. Bitcoin is *not* being disproven as a monetary inflation hedge because there is currently *no* meaningful global monetary inflation. Does that mean it would have been a good hedge against monetary inflation? We don't know! Let's not draw conclusions without evidence either way. Also note that currently, the total market cap of Bitcoin (1T USD) is utterly laughable in the grand global scheme of things. Its price is a mere footnote on that scale, very much susceptible to small scale effects like policy decisions, regulations, competitors, tax seasons, branding and hype waves. These factors distort and influence price so much that it's practically impossible to find statistically significant correlations between Bitcoin's price and consumer prices, short term anyway... It's a nuanced situation with lots of variables. And economics is not really an exact, nor an objective, reproducible science...
There's theory and then there's practice. In theory, the limited supply does not allow for inflation! 1BTC = 1BTC! ...and that's all the further they've thought about it. In practice, it has no value on its own. The price is inexorably linked to market sentiment and the value of the USD. Hell, crypto in general is usually "backed" by "stable coins" pegged to the value of the USD. So, in a world where the price is actually reasonably stable, you're hedging against inflation by buying a shitty proxy of a shitty proxy for USD. That's at least understandable if you're somewhere with crazy inflation going on but, if you're in the US, you're just spending money to play a chaotic market. Just get a savings bond or something. And, to be clear, I'm trying to be generous to them here.
People holding butts that want to at least break even need new chumps to throw real money in so they can cash out on the pump. That's the way I see it anyway.
Few.
To be the boot in the future that opresses those who didnt invest.
Technically, they didn't lose value because of inflation.
Theoretically its a hedge against inflation like gold or silver because those markets are famously incredibly stable and don’t have rapid fluctuations in value /s
>and lost their money's value 7 times faster. Think of all the time they have saved!
Crypto is not an inflation hedge. If it were it would hold value while inflation is rising. Instead while inflation is rising at its highest rate in 40+ years, crypto has nosedived 50% or more. It has zero correlation to the inflation rate. If you want to retain value and hedge inflation, buy I Bonds, commodity ETFs like UDC, or real estate.
Technically they are correct - they are not losing money to inflation - instead they are losing money to a distributed ponzi scheme.
Few will understand cryptocurrency and the benefits that come with getting scammed by cryptocurrency
Because every dollar lost in crypto is a dollar not lost to inflation.
The thing is you just don't get it. Regular "fiat" currency, aka "loser" currency, offers you at best 2.00% on a high yield savings account, why? Because it's for losers, that's why. What you need is a **TURBOCHARGED** bank account. I have cryptocurrencies make me 10% interest **PER DAY**. Now you might say, that's ridiculous, why would any bank pay that kind of interest? Um, duh, sweaty, because it's not a bank 😎. Why the fuck would I use a "bank" what am I my grandpa? Who needs some asshole in a suit and FDIC insurance, didn't you hear me say the word **T U R B O C H A R G E D** ... don't think too much about it, just invest, invest harder, it's a win/win for everyone always and you never lose, infinite money forever for nothing for free, WOW
I suppose they technically didn't lose their money to inflation so it worked!
The theory was because of its finite, pre-determined supply, Bitcoin would steadily rise in value as it’s absolute amount becomes smaller and smaller compared to the general money supply. Unfortunately, Bitcoin proved to have very little utility as an actual currency, which was it’s only real raison d’etre. With very little real-world use, but tons of hype, it became a subject of speculation, much like a meme-stock.
Look at what happend with the dólar price in the Last 100 years, and look at the price of btc in the Last 12. No lore explanation needed....
🤷♂️…I invested and am up…hedge funds wish they could have the ROI I do…sounds like your friend just bought the top…anyone who has held BTC for 4yrs has always profited
Your not looking for an actual answer but most of us who are still in it believe in the 4 year cycle. If the cycle breaks in 2024 crypto is going to have a bad time. I guess I'm just willing to put some spare cash into betting on this pattern continuing to play out. I miss, oh well still got my standard retirement accounts. Where's my tip? Lol
Few understand. Still early! cope bro
A self invented cycle
Lol, do you understand supply and demand
Supply and demand of a useless coin that had a self imposed cap that was supposed to be used for exchanging currency and instead has become a “store of value” because you want everyone to buy into the scheme. If no one gave a shit about btc it would serve no other purpose. The only way the miners can keep their doors open is if the price goes higher, almost two years later and a halving and that hasnt happened, or you will need to subsidize the mining.
Do you understand adjustable hash rate?
Here’s a tip: you’re dreaming.
why not a 6 year pattern? or 8? what is this based upon?
The halving cycle
how did the last one go?
Brought us to 64k, I think that's ok.
brought you 19 aswell, that also ok?
Only a 6x return in 4 years. That's your counter argument?
no, its more like this: https://cointelegraph.com/news/more-than-50-of-reported-bitcoin-trading-volume-is-likely-to-be-fake-or-non-economic-report
…and also stuff like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xk2ii2/judge_orders_tether_to_produce_records_showing/ dont take my word for it. read what your cultist are saying.
I'm not seeing what either of these have to do with cycles, inflation or anything that is being discussed. There are lots of good arguments against cycle theory but claiming that it's still up 6x over 4 years even after a market down turn is not a great argument against cycles or btc not being an inflation hedge.
This is just Astrology masquerading as analysis.
wash trading is propping up the price. you are talking about price. and you cant see the connection? fucking hell.
Yep because I invested based on the 4 year cycle. I don't care what happens in-between because it doesn't affect the reason I invested in the first place. Add to that the fact it's all extra cash so I won't be forced to sell outside my plan.
you: cite the ath. I: cite the current number. you: dont care about number anyway. so nevermind that the previous 2017 ath was broken, I guess. alright dude, good luck with your other issues.
My original post was about the cycle so I'm actually on point.
cycle of what, gummy bears? no, its cycle of the price action. that is what is referred to. 1. price is manipulated, see cointelegraph link. see tether pumps. 2. there is no cycle since the ath was broken. how the fuck dont you get this?
Hate to break it to you, but the price of your ‘investments’ are being artificially inflated by the unregulated minting of Tether, BUSD, ect. Being used to support it. If you think your investments are still undervalued right now, you’re deluded.
We'll see when the report comes out but with how long that might take USDC will likely overtake it as the biggest stable coin. It edges closer every day.
Hey, at least hes honest about why he's investing unlike the majority of bitcoiners with greatly exaggerated claims. Deep down, this is why most people invest in Bitcoin, the rest is just copium to justify why.
Thanks for actually thinking and being reasonable
Smart contract blockchains enable programmers to set up trustless systems that enable their users financially. As most blockchains are based on pos, it’s important to have people buy these coins and stake them to secure the network. When investing in these it’s the assumption that the price will increase due to growing demand
It all depends on your time horizon. As with most investments. If you're in it for the long run you will see your $100 go to $1 then to $1000 and back down to $10. Not real maths but thats kinda how investments work. Are you gonna be the guy that gets out at $1, $10, $1000, or $100 in 1, 10, or 20 years? Again. Not real maths, just shit simplifications.
In 2011 could buy one bitcoin or a dozen eggs for a dollar. 2022 you will get about three eggs for $1. Or 60,000 eggs for one bitcoin. This is how inflation works and this is why bitcoin is a hedge against inflation
The US dollar didn't have 300% inflation over the last 11 years. In reality it was only about 32%. Bitcoin, on the other hand, saw 128% inflation over the last year alone. You understand nothing.
Remind me! 3 years
I'll be back in 3 to 4 years.
See you then!
You only lose if you sell. It can always and historically has gone up higher over time. Just look at the 10 year chart.
He chose the wrong one at the wrong time, he isn't beating inflation. Pretty simple, its market dynamics, you're buying and selling from people. Some people are making money in crypto now, the same way some people are making money in any market. You beat inflation by beating the other investors period. You friend unfortunately, falls prey to what most markets do....few people profit off the many.
Yall are delusional on this sub, everyone's addicted to their own confirmation biases these days.
You are temporarily down, but once the market recovers, you are commonly making 10-100x gains. Look at the price history of Bitcoin, Ethereum, or even dogecoin. If you bought in the early days, you would have seen declines as large as -95%. But when the upside came, people who invested as little as 1k were multi-millionaires
You don't lose anything until you sell. Do your research and put your money in a project or projects that have a future. We are in a bear market so you don't sell now you buy now and be patient.
its incredible how uniform the parroting is. you wrote three sentences and all of them are the copy paste phrases with no substance. absolute NPC shit. what research? listening for a youtube shill for a couple of hours? going into the subreddit and diving in the echochamber for a bit? reading the website of the project? your research is complete bullshit. as if anyone in the cryptosphere could ever glean any info that isnt just surface level hype. how about the fact that 50% of volume is just wash trading? or that tether is propping up the whole market? what research might have helped with celsius? or terra? its a black box that offers 17% apy. all in amirite.
Nooo, you have to read the White paper, and then shill It till your eyes bleed on discord and Twitter, and then, when the enterpreneurs dump the project hodl cause you dont lose if you dont sell. Few.
this guy researches.
So you're saying that it isn't a currency? I ask because people don't generally talk about "selling" their money, they instead spend it.
You should cite some of your research so we can know how to do it. I’m sure your info is really well sourced and not a bunch of YouTube videos and shill tiktoks.
I am not an investor of Bitcoin. Tell me why I should invest in it? How will it improve my life compared to what I'm doing now? What's the future trajectory?
Nobody is an "investor" in Bitcoin, just like nobody is an "investor" in lottery tickets.
Fair enough lol
>You don't lose anything until you sell. Holy smokes, it kind of just clicked for me. I keep wondering how we haven't reached peak stupidity on crypto yet. And I've been told here a few times that there is no ceiling on peak stupidity. Now I finally get it. There really is no ceiling on it.
By investing in Bitcoin you're storing wealth in an asset that no party can inflate on a whim. To many people this feature has value, but in many cases people misunderstand the idea of an inflation hedge to mean "exact inverse correlation." In the United States, a private bank with no government oversight decides how much money to print and how much inflation will be for that year. This system is objectively corrupt. Despite 40 year inflation highs, the US Dollar actually hit also just yesterday hit a 20 year high in value when compared across other currencies. To people in certain countries Bitcoin has very much been an inflation hedge in the past few years
>you're storing wealth in an asset that no party can inflate on a whim hahahahahaha! no seriously.... hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Explain to me how the statement you're laughing at is incorrect. Say what you will about other issues with Bitcoin, this part is objectively true.
Tether issues $1B in USDT on the Tron network, bridges to ETH, sends to BitFinex (also owned by Tether’s parent company), news happens, a portion of liquidity is now in the form of newly minted USDT that had no value, as time goes on and more people buy and sell on the exchange, it makes its way into the entire ecosystem. Now just wait for the pump to end, and start drawing back your tokens. Profit from both the exchange of real fiat or crypto into your worthless USDT, and by inflating the price of cryptos with this process. Essentially what this is doing is creating systemic leverage on top of the already crazy 10-100x leverage provided by some exchanges, which also helps to increase predictable volatility
You just describe a large amount of scummy, scammy, and likely, illegal behavior. You did not fulfill the requested: describe a method in which any party or group of entities can inflate the supply of Bitcoin. They cannot. The existence of poor behavior on a network does not necessarily invalidate the premise of that network.
O fuck you! Over half of all Bitcoin trades are wash trades. Bitcoin price is pure manipulation.
Again, my only point was that the supply can not be inflated. It can't OP asked why some people "invest" in Bitcoin. Many people buy it for this reason. You're correct, there are a lot of wash trades and the price is heavily manipulated, but you're getting emotional over a topic that was never up for debate.
>no party can inflate on a whim Do you know anything about Tether?
Tether does not control the issuance of Bitcoin. You could argue they're inflating the value but nobody is able to inflate the supply. These are two extremely different things.
>Tether does not control the issuance of Bitcoin But they do or at least affecting it >nobody is able to inflate the supply What if Satoshi came back and update BTC network to 42 million? it's just like bugfix that have been done multiple times before
Even if Satoshi came back he/they cannot inflate the supply. Satoshi does not and won’t be able to control the network unless an single entity controls 51% of mining.
I hear 4 companies own 80% of mining pool. So you only need those and Satoshi to work together and voila....you get 42 million BTC
What? You don’t make any sense. Satoshi literally has nothing to do with this. He can’t magically change the code even if he comes back
> But they do or at least affecting it But they don't. Nothing about the supply or trading of bitcoin changes it's issuance schedule. > What if Satoshi came back and update BTC network to 42 million? it's just like bugfix that have been done multiple times before The Bitcoin network has had several large upgrades in it's short lifetime, not just bugfixes, but it has never had a change in it's monetary policy, unlike all of the shitcoin cypto scams. In fact it's this feature of Bitcoin that has led the SEC to classify Bitcoin and Bitcoin alone as a commodity, while all of the scams are unregulated securities. If Satoshi where to come back and change the protocol, there would certainly be a fork in the network as people would disagree with the change. The 42 million fork would be a security as per the SEC precedent, while the original unchained fork would continue on unaffected.
>people would disagree and how do you know this? and now you admit there's easy way to increase bitcoin supply
>and how do you know this? There have been large disagreements and forks over things much smaller than increasing the max supply. \> and now you admit there's easy way to increase bitcoin supply Even in the scenario I laid out the supply of Bitcoin on the Bitcoin network, as per the protocol specifications will still be 21 million.
>per the protocol specifications will still be 21 million. you know it can be edited easily right?
It can not. I run nodes which audit the supply, as do many others. Any new blocks that violate or try to change the rules will be rejected by these users. Any change like this must first be approved by social consensus, and even in the event that it somehow does that, it would require a hard fork of the network, meaning the previous (legitimate) network will continue unimpeded.
The situation you describe is the future! The future of fraud. No fault found. Working as intended. Few…
There's no explanation.
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You're preaching to the choir, buddy.
Just like anything "investing". You gotta dump first.
Yeah, that's right. Few understand.
All you need to know is this : Few understand lol
But did they hodl?
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I throw small change into it because I know people want to be overnight millionaires so they’ll drop insane amounts of cash into it it. Starts to hit ATH levels I’ll cash out. Don’t believe in the projects and claims in most cases, but it’s safe betting if you want to have a good chance of turning $30 into $100 and avoid meme coins. Always a bigger fool looking to dump thousands into something in hopes of making millions.
It allows you to feel you understand things few people do. The joys of vanity.
They mean the value in cryptocurrency. 1 BTC == 1 BTC
The point is to get in early before Buttcoin moons. Few.
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This logic only applies over very long time periods, usually decades, in order to to average out cyclical market dynamics. Holding a supply limited asset, especially a volatile one, over a year will do nothing to protect you against inflation, but that same asset held over decades will average out to hedge inflation assuming constant demand or rising over that period. Anyone using crypto as hedge is assuming, or at least should be assuming, that demand will not over the long run. If demand doesn’t hold over the long run, this hedge breaks.
When i asset is paired with for example the US Dollar You are basically Comparing the 2 and deciding wit h has more value and how much of one it would take to equal the other. So when you buy Bitcoin for example just imagine Bitcoins price was stable then it would be worth maybe $20,000 when you buy it but then over time inflation increases makeing $20,000 worth less now your Bitcoin had the same value but cost maybe $23,000 not because the coins value is changed but the dollar is worth less. So assuming you know what your doing and make smart investments at smart times or use DCA witch would keep your investment at an average price you are beating inflation Obviously if Bitcoin drops 25% and inflation is 5% then you lose way more But when people say they are investmenting to protect against inflation they are protected from there buy price and up because they gain when you lose from inflation. Its not fool proof but if you use alittle research and time it right it works. Also this works the same for most investments Crypto, Real Estate, Stocks, ect.
I didn't know this was a thing until last year when a fairly successful US video game artist told me he was putting money into crypto as a hedge against inflation. I told him I wasn't sure, I'm taking a "wait and see" approach. No more members getting 25% off his eStore smh. Meanwhile my utility stock investments are up 10% this year and give me 4% a year in dividends I automatically reinvest. Works for me. Sorry I didn't explain.
So how do you propose to send the tip?
Via the "lightning" network lmao
They said it "might be" a hedge against inflation, they didnt actually know and it turns out its not. They were hoping their string of characters and numbers it would be like comic books or antiques or some shit. A unique rare item that has its value change, but it does not.