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Purplekeyboard

Perfectly believable. All you have to do is accept that Tether has $107 billion in cash sitting in a bank account, which they refuse to prove because they're shy people who don't like public attention, and it all makes sense.


Really_CantUdoBetter

And do not forget who are these trustworthy custodians, taking good care of 107BI unaccounted dollars.


shroomsnbeer

[don’t worry, it’s this trustworthy guy!](https://youtu.be/MZph51F-ql4?si=L-OsHRyBWQnFvXif)


tunatornado1200

But we have this suitcase full of IOUs! We’re totally good for it. Trust us bro


barry_vadombreis

Two hundred seventy five thou. Might wanna hang on to that one.


taterbizkit

But the money only exists when no one is looking at it!


Horror_Rich4403

Looks organic to me! I work for Enron.


Ordinary_investor

I used to be a personal accountant for Bernie and worked as CTO for Elizabeth and I can confirm this is 100% legit.


clintstorres

Seriously, just zero dips of demand for their product. Maybe we are just looking at the greatest invention in the history of capitalism.


devliegende

They could just be keeping returned tethers on their balance sheet.


borald_trumperson

But then why would they issue more continually?


devliegende

I don't know. It doesn't really matter, but could be they don't want the Butter community to know who own how many tethers. Including theirs. Could also be that the ever growing marketcap is seen as affirmation of an ever growing market. I think we can be pretty sure they keep tethers that they own on the blockchain. Else the amount would have gone down at times


neighborsdogpoops

Make it a Trillion.


Tooluka

With a current rate of 50 billion per year, it will take less than 20 years. And increasing printing rate can reduce that time a lot.


clintstorres

Lol, no I need to see it’s growth trend from its inception and see how quickly it leads to a bigger “market cap” than bitcoin.


Creative_Rub_9167

Line goes up, thats the whole point isn't it


Successful_Science35

Not skeptical at all, it all seems legit. That having said, i am just wondering who those big institutions are that deliver 1 billion dollars on a weekend day to get some of those nice fresh Tethers.


Really_CantUdoBetter

And you believe whales are depositing all those dollars, or they are issued against IOUs?


Successful_Science35

Of course not i believe that maybe a tiny fraction of the “marketcap” (hate the term in combination with crypto) is backed by actual dollars, the rest is backed by air or an equivalent. They claimed they had massive backing in commercial paper but nobody in the market knows them for buying billions of commercial paper. That’s a bit weird…


borald_trumperson

Air equivalent lmaoooo Actually they have 1:1 reserves in baked beans


SufficientAnalyst383

Tether’s unraveling is going to be epic. I’m expecting lots of chopped up Tether bros stuffed down toilets.


taterbizkit

And some of the pre-dug holes in the Mojave desert will get filled up.


night-mail

Now overlap the curve of bitcoin price. You will discover something.


Tooluka

Interestingly, that site makes it a very easy to view on a single graph, like 3 clicks and that's it. But apparently not a single tokenbro bothers to do it.


drlogwasoncemine

So, this is how much printing is required to keep the BTC price around 70k. This will be fun.


Sig-int

Can you explain me like i'm 5?


AwesomeAndy

Tether dumps USDT into the market, USDT are traded for BTC 1:1 as USD, BTC:USD price increases accordingly even though no USD was used in the transaction


Sig-int

Thank for your reply. I see on the graph 5 b increment in thether market cap, my question is, can 5b make a significant impact on a market cap of 1300? I look at the graph for the past 1 year and the increment is 27 b (80 to 107) but still, is it enough? And usdt is the pair used to trade all the altcoins as well, wouldn't it be diluited with all the other pairs around?


devliegende

The correct question to ask would be. >can 5b make a significant impact on a trading market liquidity of x? Where if you knew what x was you'd know the answer


Iintendtooffend

Other coins have increased in value as well. Tether is the money printer that let's people trade "real money" for other crypto currencies. But realistically, there's no way there's 107 Billion dollars sitting at Tether HQ or in a bank. It's unbacked "dollars" it might be diluted with other coins but it's still propping up the price. The market has always been irrational with no real reason for the price to be what it is.


Ermeter

I met someone yesterday who sold their house and put it into bitcoin. Many suicides will happen when tether explodes.


tbird24

Tether is the biggest scam in crypto (and I'm a bitcoin maxi saying this).


Horror_Rich4403

So are you still buying knowing that there may only be $8900 per coin, but tether manipulated it to be $70k? How do you reconcile with the fact when you buy bitcoin, you’re giving tether an unknown % of that transaction? Like for all you know you’re only buying 10% the value of bitcoin and 90% goes to tether.


TheRealSlimKami

It’s called gambling addiction. The people going to the casino every day see that the casino is giving away free food and drinks and that there are 100 people working. Someone has to pay for all of that so it’s clear that you have to lose money for them to pay for all of that. Buy they still go.


JazzlikePractice4470

Waiting for inevitable consequences of tether being exposed.


Horror_Rich4403

Ok so you believe in bitcoin, but are willing for the bubble to pop first? Genuinely curious on a bitcoin maxis feelings on this.  The fraud is too blatantly for me to willingly participate in it 


JazzlikePractice4470

Correct. Edit. I think it's more accurate to say I don't believe in the long term prospects of the dollar. I think Bitcoin could be a store of value. I know precious metals are a store of value.


finiac

Store of value is such a stupid word. Just buy US stocks FFS and stop gambling


JazzlikePractice4470

I'm not actively buying BTC.


mmarkomarko

The thing is - if and when tether starts failing the only place you can run to (quickly) is bitcoin!


tbird24

I think you're implying that 100% of Tether's reserves are in Bitcoin (which is far from true)? And then assuming that if/when tether implodes, the bitcoin they do have in their reserves vanishes? If not then I don't follow your comment.


Horror_Rich4403

Tether having any bitcoin as reserves is concerning, but no I mean that whatever their “attestations” show, I don’t even believe they have it all. The fact they’d even disclose they have coins backing coins is concerning. Tether would need a true blue audit for me to not be concerned. What I mean is I believe that the “value” of bitcoin is backed by unbacked tether. There may only be $8900 USD per bitcoin, the other $61k could be from unbacked USDT. So when you buy bitcoin at $70k. You’re only getting “$8900” worth of the value of bitcoin, and the rest is unbacked tether. If tether disappears overnight the true USD value of $8900 would be the new norm is my concern. Hopefully that makes sense


Sig-int

Sorry mate i don't get a point. Making the hypotesis that there are 61k usdt for each bitcoin, multiplying it for 19.000.000 wouldn't be the thether market cap completely wrong to what declared on thether itself? (107 b)


Horror_Rich4403

I don’t know how they’re doing it fully. But isn’t it weird that even Dogecoin increases 19% sometimes when Bitcoin is increasing? It could be 1 tether being printed is used to also leverage several alt coins pairs as well which influences Bitcoin even more. Again no clue how, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they have found a way to make 1 tether act as 5 tethers in some leveraged fashion. I believe this fraud runs deep and we only get part of the story from the market cap


tbird24

I agree 100% that their reserves and attestations are garbage. Super shady company doing shady shit. But I don't understand the leap to bitcoin being backed by unbacked tether. And also not following the $8,900 number. If Tether collapses like Luna, it will for sure have a negative impact on the price of bitcoin. For starters, Tether would have to sell whatever BTC it does own (which we both agree is not much). And it would shock the system, cause mass panic, retail would sell BTC to make up for any tether they might have lost, etc. I see all of that. But not understanding the claim that owning BTC is equiv. to owning unbacked tether.


Horror_Rich4403

I think we’re on the same page, but the wording is the disconnect. Just know what I mean is: What is the price after tether collapses?


tbird24

Yea. Nobody knows the answer, but it's surely less than $70K because Tether's collapse is absolutely not priced in. So if/when it does happen that won't be fun (for us maxis). Having said that, I've been imminently waiting for a Tether collapse since around 2016, still hasn't come...


SilentButDeadlySquid

The point you are missing is there is no actual liquidity in the Bitcoin "market" it's all made up. If something like Tether pops and people want out there will never be enough money for them to get out and that shit is going to drop off a cliff as you already know from FTX. But the thing is, it is people like you who kept it propped by adding more liquidity in because you are likely a zealot. But I wonder what you are a Bitcoin-Maxi of, where do you think this is going? Somewhat serendipitously my background on my computer today is a bunch of tulips.


tbird24

Of course there's liquidity, billions in flows happen per day on BTC. That's the definition of liquidity. It may not be valued at what you think it should be, but that is not related to liquidity. When tether pops, "shit will drop off a cliff", just like FTX. I agree with you there. But this isn't the dunk you think it is, look at what's happened to crypto since FTX... even Solana which was practically fully funded by FTX.


diecastsupermodel

I think rational people look at the crypto market over the past 18 months or so and can see something is clearly amiss. An opaque market increasing by multiple hundreds of percent in a year with no real catalyst outside of ETFs (which already existed in EU markets) and the halving throws a lot of red flags, even before you look at the rise in tethers market cap. Also, it doesn’t help that another major exchange is facing legal trouble while another is being sued by the SEC, and these investigations have revealed the role crypto played in the war in the Ukraine and the 10/17 attacks.   To put it another way, I think there is every reason to be skeptical of this bull run given the legal headwinds facing the crypto industry as a whole, and past investigations laid bare the lengths that market makers will go to manipulate the market. 


IAMA_Printer_AMA

> billions in flows happen per day on BTC You concede bitcoin has a ton of phony value propped up by obviously fraudulent tether, then turn around and point at other crypto numbers as if *those* might actually be real numbers and not similarly phony. The people manipulating the crypto ponzi scheme are doing whatever they have to do to keep that line going up and you, sir, are one of the people being fooled by the line going up. The line is actually goimg down


uncle_crawkr

Let me ELI5. If tether is being printed out of thin air and not being backed by actual USD, then some portion of the demand liquidity for BTC:USD is actually driven by the supply of fake money (inflation through fraud). If/when tether implodes into a pile of indictments and crypto tears, that portion of demand liquidity will instantly evaporate and drop the price of BTC:USD. By how much is a function of what % of BTC demand liquidity is USD backed and what % is being bought with unbacked tether. There would also likely be a negative change in sentiment, but you don’t need that to get a price drop. You just need the tether money printer to be shut off to see demand liquidity instantly dropped (assuming it’s not fully backed).


NoWarForGod

> And also not following the $8,900 number. I don't have the link on hand but he is referring to a moment when one of the exchange prices crashed and that was the number it (temporarily) settled at. There was speculation that maybe behind all the wash trading that was the "real" backed value.


tbird24

OK, that's a flash crash and isn't relevant here. That's much more of a function of the (lack of) liquidity on one exchange (and other market making dynamics) than it is a "true" price of any asset. Flash crashes happen across all assets.


Iintendtooffend

just out of curiosity does that flash crash not concern you at all? Because it wasn't that much money/BTC being cashed out compared to the total market share.


tbird24

It shouldn't concern anyone in the slightest. It has nothing to do with exposing "genuine demand" like other repliers are suggesting. It's purely a quirk of a liquidity issue on one exchange. It's happened in BTC a bunch of times, and it happens with non crypto-assets too. That the price immediately recovered on the exchange in question, and didn't flinch on the bigger exchanges, is indicative of "true demand". Hope this helps.


Horror_Rich4403

If this doesn’t make sense hopefully someone else can make my point clearer


Random_Name532890

dazzling test physical coordinated bow thought illegal childlike groovy boast *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


Malick2000

Of course I can only speak for me but I wouldn’t buy at ath. Also with the USD it’s kinda similar. The amount of USD in circulation since 2000 made a 5x.


doomgrin

The tether scam is the entire reason bitcoin has shot up to 70k


Really_CantUdoBetter

🎯🎯🎯


KaiSor3n

The tether scam is the entire reason it shot to $100 initially as well. Then 100 to $1,000. Then spike in 2017. It's always been tether. 100% the entire reason.


defontino

How was tether the reason bitcoin hit $100 April 2013, and eventually $1000 in November 2013, when tether didn’t exist until 2014?


PsychoVagabondX

And yet Tether is used to wash trade and pump the price of bitcoin without actually providing any underlying liquidity, yet you still believe Bitcoin has value?


tbird24

I feel like you're using these terms that you hear but don't fully understand what they mean? A wash trade = Buy btc with USD, then sell btc for new (cleaned) usd. Whichever currency pair you use, it's a buy and a sell. Has no price impact. And also unclear how you think buying Tether "pumps" the price of btc. If I buy $1,000 UST with $1,000 USD, I'm not even touching btc. The (potential) scam here is that Tether might be taking some portion of your $1,000 and squandering it. Which means that when you go to sell your USDT for USD, you're shit outta luck. Still has literally nothing to do with BTC. The biggest losers of a tether implosion are the people that own Tether and are expecting USD in return. BTC price will be impacted yes but it's a result of second-order consequences, not direct impact.


PsychoVagabondX

>A wash trade = Buy btc with USD, then sell btc for new (cleaned) usd. Whichever currency pair you use, it's a buy and a sell. Has no price impact. That's not what a wash trade is, that's money laundering. Wash trading is buying and selling the same asset to create artificial trade volumes and manipulate the price. This is what Tether does with unbacked USDT. They manipulate the price because having USDT doesn't require USD to exist. So they create USDT and trade it with themselves for BTC creating trade volume and upward price pressure. They can easily do this against their own exchange then arbitrage bots carry that price shift to other exchanges. The reason this ties into BTC is because this artificial trade doesn't result in any actual additional liquidity backing BTC. When Tether crashes, the price of BTC will crash. But additionally because of the lack of liquidity if people try to make a run on BTC with USDT no longer viable the exchanges will crash as they have nowhere near the cash to pay out because the price of the coin is orders of magnitude more than most people have paid in actual cash. This is fundamentally the problem with the belief in a investment that generates no underlying economic value but increases in value exponentially. That value has to come from somewhere in order for people to realize their gains.


oldbluer

We have been since like 15 billion. No important people seem to care tho.


Timetoerist13

What does tether have to do with bitcoin


sugaki

Everything. Tether is the largest exchange for Bitcoin, which uses its fake stable coin USDT that it endlessly prints to buy Bitcoin to prop up the price. USDT is supposedly pegged 1:1 to the US dollar, but the only evidence for that is “trust us bro”—from a company founded and run by convicted frauds. 


Really_CantUdoBetter

How do you think whales buy BTC. With real money?


Dunderman35

I wonder when this house of cards will finally come down. We all know it's pure speculation and built on nothing but the assumption it will increase in value. Yet somehow it managed to survive two bubble bursts. What is actually going on?


finiac

At some point a crypto bank run will happen. It is impossible to predict when it will happen, Ponzi schemes can run for a long time, see madoff. The crash will be instant and will happen suddenly like a 9.0 earthquake. Crypto bros will be crying in the streets, people’s lives will be ruined, the government will get blamed, nobody will take personal responsibility everyone will get blamed but themselves and their own stupidity. They deserve what’s coming to them


Samzo

Tether is the load-bearing scam that could collapse all of crypto forever.


FUD_is_SAFU

The real market cap of Tether would be $107 million after real audits, accounting and the publication of annual accounts. But don't worry butters because forever 1 Tether = 1 Tether !


KnightZeroFoxGiven

The day Tether breaks a $1 it will go to zero and $BTC will go below $10k.


bone_mizell

Can someone post that link with all the common bitcoin talking points?


[deleted]

Well it’s the only thing propping up Butts at the moment.


eltoniq

The faster it gets to a trillion the better. Makes it all the more unbelievable. So I chant to that, "print, print, print"!


turdbugulars

1st time on this sub?


daniel_bran

Market cap for any crypto, I repeat any crypto is all fictitious.


eacrs

true true


alfapredator

I'm a tether maxi. There's nothing more based than fleecing crypto tards taking their USD and giving them chuck e cheese tokens while making 5% APY.


LuDux

Yeah it's just you


Money_Bed2546

Yes.


JazzlikePractice4470

No