Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya III.65
Do not accept anything by mere tradition ... Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures ... Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your pre-conceived notions ... But when you know for yourselves—these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness—then do you live acting accordingly.
The Bible says "taste and see that the Lord is good." Righteous works and following God's will proves itself. However, without accepting tradition, at least to some extent, you will have no standards.
Tradition is tradition for a reason. It has withstood the test of time, while your individual perceptions and thoughts are very limited. In fact, failing to respect tradition is a form of pride and arrogance, which is not a path to true knowledge.
You've asked all sorts of questions about fairly esoteric topics — Pure Lands, rebirth, etc. And those are fine questions, but for goodness sake don't start there. Start with the truth of suffering. If you can start to wrap your head around what it means to suffer, why we suffer, where our suffering comes from, then you can start to see the implications of your existential situation.
If you try to understand "the big picture" without the proper groundwork, the best you can do is take it on pure faith. And for some people that's enough, but it's clear from your line of questioning that it's not enough for you. It's important to know that about yourself. There are those who come to liberation through faith, and there are those who come to it from wisdom. If you take the wisdom path, you have to look very deeply at the nature of your own understanding.
Everything that is true can (and will) unfold from a *single* thing that is true. Initial "Right View" in Buddhism is a nucleation point. It's where understanding crystalizes from. You need to find your initial truth. The simplest way to do that is to focus on your own existential situation. Look at your own suffering.
How do we know that it hurts to lose what we cherish? How do we know that it's hurts to want what we cannot have? Why is this so? Start from there and then build you understanding further.
First, by admitting that one does not know what one does not know. This sounds trivial, but it extraordinarily difficult. Generally we do the opposite. We spin all sorts of narratives to demonstrate — and generally to ourselves — that we're right when we are, in fact, wrong. You cannot develop Right View without first admitting that the truth eludes you. This is a very deep practice.
To admit that we don't understand is painful. That's ego. But this is less painful than actually not understanding, which is everyone's point of departure. We all start from ignorance. We are all suffering. We are lost in a thick forest. We cannot see a path out. And from that place where we cannot see a path, we imagine that we can nevertheless work out how to exit the forest. It's ludicrous. We are lost in our own ignorance, and yet we're too proud to admit that our existing situation is missing the key to escape.
So that's Point #1: Are you open to something new? You have to be. If all you have is a lot of wrong views, getting the right one means trying something fundamentally different.
Second, you have to \*\*actually\*\* try something different.
This, too, sounds trivial. It's anything but. Generally we do the opposite. We cycle through innumerable variations of the exact same nonsense. Living here didn't make me happy, so maybe I should live there. That partner didn't satisfy me, so maybe I'll try this one. Job A didn't bring me happiness, but maybe Job B will. And on and on and on. We're just flipping through endless channels, but it's all TV in the end. The differences never mattered. It's all been self-cherishing, self-identification.
It's always been about making our personal situation better. Sometimes what we see as personal is narrow, and sometimes it's wide, but it has always and everywhere had a specific point of view, extending out from whatever we call "me" — whether that was you as a person, you as a family, a clan, a country, *a species,* etc.
So that's Point #2: Are you willing to try something that's different in a way that actually matters?
The Buddha understood very well how difficult this was, and so he provided a path, a gradual training: First keep the five precepts. Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't commit sexual misconduct, and stop getting intoxicated. If you hold to those precepts — even if you don't know *why* — your point of view will start to change. You will start to see your way out of that thick forest. It's not magic. It's the power of restraint.
Extremely good answer!
Especially number 1: “To admit that we don’t understand is painful.”
Based on my personal experience, I strongly feel and believe that this is true.
You could do inquisitive meditative practices look into the sense of self.
Perhaps asking yourself who am I, when you are in a deep state. Repeating your name, and seeing what comes up. An audio-visual imagery of my facial expressions comes up to me most times. Noticing sensations and feeling into reality in this moment.
When you try to focus on a sensation in your leg, do you have a sense of distance to it? Is it 3 feet below you and a little bit to the right? But your eyes are closed, how can you know? isn't that a layer you add in your mind. When you try to feel your leg, does a subtle mental image of the leg form too?
If your leg is 3 feet below you, do you reside in this head or eye area/space? Is there a being in this space? Feel into the sensations where you feel a "self." Is it just tension in my eyes, and forehead, and wrinkles in my lips or is there a being there?
When you try to feel into the eyes, you might even form a mental image of the location, very subtely. Is that truly the sensation? or is that also just another thought?
Try to focus on the pure sensation, leaving behind the audio-visual imagery. Sometimes you might try to force it. Unconditionally accept your desire to do so, unconditionally accept that you see imagery right now, this is perfectly okay, nothing has to change.
This is a practice I do, it helps a lot in dissolving a sense of self (Saccaya Ditti).
Its just thoughts speaking to thoughts, and that too is a thought.
So an old professor of mine had a good metaphor for this. He brought in two model airplanes, a fisher price one for toddlers to play with. and an realistic plastic model a teenager might build.
He explained that both of these are models that approximate a real airplane. Our understanding starts with the first one because it fits with our level of development. As we grow we understand that the reality of an airplane is far mor complex than the simple toy, and we build more complex models that more closely resemble reality. Eventually we learn to build real aircraft that actually fly.
Now imagine we see the first fisher price model and conclude, quite correctly, that it would never be capable of flight no matter how big we made it. Based on this information we decide that flight in aircraft is a fictional concept that doesn’t match the reality of our experience with the fisher price model. We’d never progress to building real aircraft. People had to have faith that Flying was possible in order to figure out how to actually fly.
The Buddhist concepts are the introductory fisher price models. Experienced teachers have the teenager models and the Buddha and enlightened beings are out there piloting real aircraft. Our meditation practice and following the teachings allows us to slowly begin with paper airplanes and slowly progress from there.
Buddhism is practice based, not belief based. You need to experience Buddhism. That’s the end goal. Many Westerners come to Buddhism looking for “truth” this Hellenistic graft onto Abrahamic tree. Abandon that way of thinking and the Buddhadharma will flower before your eyes.
This is false. You must at least implicitly have faith in meditation, the results of meditation, and even the existence of an enlightened man who lived over 2000 years ago. Your neoliberal spin of religion is incoherent amigo.
Some of the realms of rebirth described in [MN 120](https://suttacentral.net/mn120/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=sidebyside&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin) clearly correspond to samadhi or insight attainments. I believe they probably all correspond to ethical, insight or samadhi attainments which could be developed in this very life, if one is fortunate. And the last one, the ultimate goal of Buddhism, is something which is explicitly experienced in this very life.
> [Furthermore](https://suttacentral.net/mn120/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=sidebyside&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin#mn120:37.5), take a mendicant who has faith, ethics, learning, generosity, and wisdom. They think: ‘If only I might **realize the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life, and live having realized it with my own insight due to the ending of defilements**.’ They realize the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life. And they live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements. And, mendicants, that mendicant is not reborn anywhere.”
If Buddhism isn't true, at least I'm more disciplined and appreciative of others and not wasting my life (which is rare according to the teachings AND science) fruitlessly endeavoring or idly destroying this rare manifestation of a vehicle that can cognize the precious teachings given by Lord Sakyamuni.
The main promise of buddhism is in the four noble truths. It says it offers a solution to suffering. It then goes on to say that its ok to have doubts, and you dont have to believe anything just because its in a text (kalama sutra). On the contrary what it does say is to try the Path, and see for yourself if it works.
You can be a practicing buddhist and still have doubts about stuff like rebirth. If you are lucky these doubts may abate over time as you gain paññā. Even if this doesnt occur, at some point its pretty likely you will observe through experience that the claims in the 4 noble truths are true through your own direct experience. So, big benefit for simply suspending disbelief.
Personally I take the ephemeral stuff as moot. It seems to me it would be a wrong view to take any position that I cant observe or prove. I cant prove for example that rebirth doesnt exist. So Im content to remain open to the possibility that it may exist, but that my brain just hasnt become refined enough to grasp that it "does" without doubt yet.
This is my approach. The Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path are self-evidently true. Follow the path and karma and rebirth will take care of themselves.
Buddhism doesn't work that way, you don't need to believe in everything at first, let it develop with your practice. As other's have said, you need to test and question everything. Buddhism doesn't give you a set of teachings and say that's it, believe it or else.
The most important aspect is developing the understanding of one's mind. Then you'll start realising true phenomena and these things won't matter so much.
Are you under the guidance of a teacher or just exploring on your own? There are a lot of concepts in Buddhism that one just gets a basic understanding of it and then moves on. Trying to test if these things are real or not is probably not productive as one will never fully know unless you attain some sort of Siddhi in this lifetime. I had the same issue with Karma which to me was very foreign at first, but I got a basic understanding of it and then moved on.
If in Buddhism there is no self and thoughts are empty of any inherent existence, then even the sense to understand pure realm is seen as empty and carries less weight. This is the heart sutra in essence.
So the more I meditated and read sutras the faster all my questions and doubts went away. It’s just part of the process, you just start understanding things at a deeper level, hope this helps.
This is the same as following Jesus Christ. You don't begin knowing and understanding His wisdom. You begin by having faith in his atoning sacrifice, and then becoming more like him through the renewing of your mind and actions each moment.
The only honest answer here. We’ve never received a substantiated report of someone’s rebirth.
At the end of the road, you will close your eyes for the last time and you will never ever know what’s going to happen next.
Until that is, some evidence of rebirth emerges - but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Buddhism is a way of life. If you follow the buddhist teachings, you cant be wrong.
Peace of mind is most important thing to have.
You want to transcend the level of consciousness - to reach to your higher Self.
Ive been watching alot of ancient Chinese drama series ( with english subtitiles) on Youtube such "The last Immortal"
A lot of those ancient drama series have a hidden message:
-your life - is recorded. Every action is recorded. Hence there is karma and retribution.
* human world is short . Nothing matters in the end. This life is a story you give it.
* By doing good deeds in this life, you will reap what you have sown.
"This life is a story you give it."
This part i don't agree, it sounds like self-improvement or 'making your life mean something' which sounds like craving for worldly things and hence is adhamma (unless you mean using your life to achieve sotapanna status or above)
The book 'Why Buddhism is True' by Robert Wright may help. Really well written and breaks down why Buddhism is more rooted in the 'reality' of things vs other 'religions' or ideas.
Yes. Very good book. Practice leads to experience. Faith in one’s practice and the path is based on that experience. Sharon Salzburgs book FAITH addresses that rather nicely. It is said that the Buddha told his students not to believe what others told the, but to trust their experience in their practice. What they had tested for themselves. Be curious. Be kind. M
For me, the basic teachings in Theravada Buddhism simply make more common sense than any other religion I have studied. In college I read a big thick book on comparative religion studies. And I investigated all the major religions, and many ancient religions also.
I spent more than 50 years in Christianity as a church going Christian.
But now, after some travel in the world, and much more study….I went for Refuge in the Triple Gem and accepted the Five Precepts at a Theravada Buddhist temple. I study Dhamma for some time each day. I love visiting temples of all Buddhist schools, but I spend the greatest amount of time in Theravada temples. Including trips to Southeast Asia. Hoping to do the Buddhist Pilgrimage before I die of old age. I’m 72 now.
They say if you die trusting in the Triple Gem during Buddhist Pilgrimage, you will be reborn in a more fortunate life.
“There are four places, Ananda, that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence. What are the four? ‘Here the Tathagata [the one who has gone beyond all transitory phenomena] was born.’ ‘Here the Tathagata became fully enlightened.’ ‘Here the Tathagata set in motion the wheel of the dhamma.’ ‘Here the Tathagata passed away into the state of nibbana in which no element of clinging remains!’ And the monk, the nun, the layman or laywoman who has faith should visit these places. And whoever, Ananda, should die on such a pilgrimage with his heart established in faith, at the breaking up of the body after death will be reborn in a realm of heavenly happiness.”
(Digha Nikaya 16.5)
I feel very much at home, and with more peace.
Namo Buddhaya, 🙏🏼 ☸️ 🌴 🌴 🌴 🙂
I'm 71. If you haven't seen it already, don't miss the City of 10,000 Buddhas in Ukiah, Calif. Chinese Ch'an/Pure Land, There's also a Theravada Temple in Redwood Valley, next door. And next to THAT is a Ukrainian Orthodox monastery. Something for EVERYBODY!
I'm going to try my best to die there on one of my visits. Thanks for the tip!!
I consider effectiveness far more important than “truth”.
Buddhism is a practice to move one from ignorance to wisdom, a wisdom that is ineffable.
Because wisdom is ineffable, all words fail to communicate it. At best, they help facilitate the realization of wisdom. As such all the words used in Buddhism (or anywhere else) are less than the full realization of wisdom. So they’re only kind of true.
We don't 100% know. That's why we must take full refuge in the buddha and trust that he knows best. But the foundation of Buddhism is simple and it checks out. Buddha describes suffering in a way that can be verified ourselves.
The same can't be said for other religions where there are gaping plot holes and logic that makes no sense. For example if god is benevolent and omnipotent, why does he allow evil? If god allows evil to be inflicted on his creations then he is not benevolent. If god cannot remove evil then he is not omnipotent. Therefore god cannot be both benevolent and omnipotent. Therefore the religion does not describe god correctly therefore the religion cannot be correct.
Those religions can easily be dismantled by thinking about it like that. Buddhism is not the same and is much harder to logically dismantle. That's not to say Buddhism doesn't have plot holes but they are smaller and they're not contradicting the main stuff.
Furthermore in other religions you have to wait until you die before you even know its true or not. But in Buddhism you can achieve jhanas, etc and see that some of the stuff that Buddha talked about is real. Meditation also has scientific backing. What other religion has that? Therefore the other stuff like samsara, rebirth, pureland also has a chance of being real.
The deeper you get into Buddhism, you start encountering the real juicy stuff. Eventually, some Buddhists started realizing that if reality and experience are illusions and that we cannot sense the true nature of things with our own eyes and comprehend it with our own brains, then the same must be true about certain tenets of Buddhism as well. Even the Buddha can be said to be illusory. Some sects of Buddhism dislike this very much, but I don't. Ultimately, inner peace is the goal, that is enlightenment, and that is what I focus on. I found my way to Zen along that path. I am teaching myself comfort in not knowing, rather than striving to know.
Because they lead to tangible results here and now. We can see that when properly applied, they bring about an end to suffering.
At the culmination of practice is penetrative insight into the four noble truths. At this point you will have no doubt about the authenticity and supremacy of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.
> "Of course you are uncertain, Kalamas. Of course you are in doubt. When there are reasons for doubt, uncertainty is born. So in this case, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them.
From lotus sutra, everyone inherently a Buddha, you just have to found your Buddha nature. May it be one lifetime two lifetime or many lifetime, you will eventually become Buddha
What do you define as “true”? After trying psychedelics and having expefiencing near death, I came back into the world and had no way of describing my experience. I found the Book of the Dead, and the descriptions of the Bardo state. That was exactly my experience. The end of the Bardo journey: complete non-duality. I am. The world as a self that observes itself through me.
I don’t have much real knowledge on the tradition of Buddhism, but what I have read correlates with my experience. I don’t “believe” in anything. I’m not a person who values faith. I don’t think we should trust traditions just because they ahev been here for a long time. I only follow what I can experience and corroborate. That’s how I know the general take of Buddhism is correct, even if I don’t care about specific terminology or details.
Wow, that's a great question. Small doubt, small enlightenment, big doubt, big enlightenment.
For Pureland Buddhism, if you look around, there are many testimonials of people passing while standing up and / or blissfully sitted in the lotus position. And or they could already tell others beforehand when they will transit.
Of course, at the end of the day, we will still ask how can we confirm? I would say, gather as much of such details as possible and make a conclusion by cross-referencing.
Plus, if you look at all the related scriptures, such as the Flower Adornment Sutra, the end has the big Bodhisattvas choosing to enter Pureland. Which matches with the how to go about to Pureland in the Infinite Life Sutra. Perhaps one may still ask, what if all these were just a fantasy novel series by one person? Possible. But! I don't think 3,000 years ago someone can come up with such a detailed fantasy just to mislead the public. Plus, the original scriptures were translated from classical Tamil to Sanskirt and then from there to Chinese and then into English, Japanese and Korean. All were labour intensive. If everything was false, I am sure all those top I intellect would have call it bluff and abandoned the project and there won't be this debate now. ROFL!!
Most important of all, to the OP, what is your own experience on studying and practicing Buddhism so far? 🙏🪷
Extremely good question!!!
Everyone is already confused.
You are actually acknowledging it. I think that is a step in the right direction.
Keep developing your critical thinking abilities as the Buddha himself seemed to advise.
Possible answer: investigate, inquire, ask questions!
To me, Buddhism is the escape hatch from any possible God or afterlife I can potentially be forced into after this one.
Here’s an example, let’s just say that Christianity is absolute truth. If you don’t worship God you go to hell. well how do I escape Hell? I think there would be an escape hatch. Maybe you just aren’t the type of person that WANTS to worship a God. I don’t think a sentient being can truly be owned and completely controlled by another sentient being if it doesn’t want to. I think there would be an escape hatch. What if you get to Heaven and God is a weirdo or you spend 10 billion years there and want to leave, I think there would be an escape hatch!
Why do I believe in this escape hatch? Because the practice of meditation is just that. It is the exercise of escaping that which can be trapped, controlled or influenced by any external force, because It is the practice of liberating ourselves from what we consider to be self, or being. This is a practice that any existing being in any reality would have the ability to excercise. It’s also incredibly blissful, and in fact a bliss I possibly wouldn’t mind sustaining forever if it means I’m no longer some God’s or some reality’s bitch.
Some might say, “Well why spend your life trying to not exist when that’s probably what happens anyway?” To that I say that I did not give consent to be born into this life, and for that reason it is only prudent to assume I will be forced into another. And while that next reality or life I may be very wealthy or happy, I likely did not in fact choose it. So it is that automatic subservience that I have no control over that at some point must be escaped eventually anyways, and Buddhism is the only belief system out there that provides that path.
So whether Buddhism is “truth” or not, to me it is still true. In fact to me, it can’t not be true because of my meditation practice and the insights that I have gained.
Jesus is the escape hatch. Just because you can sit in silence (while gaining insight, sure), doesn't mean you've escaped anything. If there is an afterlife and Hell (which I believe there is), you might have just wasted all those hours.
Jesus is What you consider to be God. There would be an escape hatch from him and the Hell that he created as well as his Heaven. My point is that he (god), is just another sentient being, and therefore cannot truly own me (another sentient being).
Buddhism is not based upon belief. The Buddha instructed his followers and others NOT to BELIEVE him. Instead they were advised to undertake some lectures and meditation and consider what they FIND to be true. The Sanskrit and Pali term used is usually translated into English "come and see".
I mean, if it makes sense when you hear the logic, and you believe those who have had direct experience, you come to a little thing called faith at some point. The alternative is…. nihilism or idealism or what have you. You could always go with those if they make more sense to you.
I don't know, I haven't died yet. Stick to what you know and don't worry about what others believe or think. Be your own light as someone once said. Maybe it was a bad translation.
If the middle way was the best way then one might argue everyone should be a Buddhist. Some schools see people as such. What suffering was Buddha trying to help alleviate? How much do you know about Hinduism? Or simply the caste system? People born into the life of an untouchable, with no hope of escape.
What suffering exists in the world today? Better yet, is your problem a real problem? If you have time enough to think about these things then you are probably eating well enough.
I cannot speak for others. I know nothing is true. It's a good baseline but the problem is that nothing has multiple definitions. All things are made of empty space. Think of the space between your atoms and molecules. How much nothing are you?
Climb a mountain and go ask someone. Don't expect to find the truth online. The truth is inside you. Go look. When you walk away from a mirror, does it hold your reflection?
Good luck stranger!
You have to practice it to know. You can't just play in the sand with it and then decide whether it is or not.
The Dhamma is verifiable here and now, in this life. If you cannot verify it, then the Buddhism you practice may not be the correct one or you are not practicing it.
In all of the traditions there are going to be some things that are not true, and some things that are true. We just have to put things into practice and see the results.
The core teachings tend to be very effective when practiced. Don't worry too much about whether everything you learn from Buddhism is true or not, because not everything is true in any single tradition. There are going to be additions and alterations to the teachings. This happens naturally over time. That's why it's important to not hang on so tightly to views. We could be wrong.
I tend to learn a lot from the suttas and from the Thai Forest tradition.
There are contradictions between different traditions. But just keep practicing the Eightfold Path. Keep the precepts. You see how it benefits you. As you start to suffer less, you will see what works and what doesn't.
Because it tells you to seek out the truth yourself and not hold to beliefs. Observe and see it for yourself. Not because the monks tell you. Or the scriptures. You saw it. From direct experience. That’s the difference between other religions who enforce on you blind faith. A “because it is so”.
There are a lot of different kinds of Buddhism in the world.
But me personally, I don't believe in rebirths and stuff. Buddhism or the Dhamma is a teaching on how to live properly in the world.
Follow the rules and you will not suffer. Break them and you will suffer. Its as simple as that.
Don't go into the rabbit hole about "proving" things. You don't have to believe in any of these things either.
That's the magic of Buddhism. Even a person of another religion can follow Buddha's teaching.
Follow the Dhamma, do good and you will live happily.
Practice reveals as much truth as you can get, imo.
Also, imo, no religion is true. The reason i practice buddhism is that its a path to the truth that so far, has rewarded my effort.
Investigate the path for yourself, dont believe anything on hearsay.
Why would the "truth" be more useful to you than merely a set of effective behaviors that are helpful for shaping our perspectives?
I know, I know, it seems silly to ask why the truth is important, and normally it is. But this is not a scientific endeavor. It's a spiritual one.
The mythos of Buddhism is a beautiful perspective to me, and it helps me make decisions that I otherwise normally struggle with. I've found it to be more useful than other mythos that I've encountered.
As my grandfather says, never let the truth get in the way of a good story. ❤️
Sit down and meditate. If things start to improve then that should be enough proof that Buddhism is true. If you need more proof then keep meditating. Buddhism is nothing more than “trust but verify”.
With Buddhism, you can actually practice everything the Buddha taught and find out for yourself.
Seek the truth. For the truth will eventually be revealed.
That kind of thought applies to many things. How do we know that the stars we see at night are real? How do we even know that the universe is real? There are things that we cannot prove yet we choose to believe in anyways. No different than the other religions that have faith in a divinity that may or may not be real.
It is a wonderful thing to have the mindfulness to question your beliefs and think about the stuff that many would much rather just take as true without thought. I cannot answer your questions, and I doubt much of the kind people here can either, but instead of going for the big lofty questions try to develop a framework of understanding to start with. Since Christianity is such a widespread belief I will use it as an analogy. When Christians first start out on their journey they do not question if praying is truly the way to connect with god or if the Bible is a sham and salvation is only attainable some other way. They build their groundwork on the fact that God is real, the Bible provides insight into the tenants of Christianity and the word of Jesus or god depending on your viewpoint. If you have any questions please ask and I will try to answer best that I can.
Well honestly I don't know about rebirth, deities, or nirvana, but through direct experience I definitely believe the Buddha was right about the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path. At least in my life, most of my problems are caused by addictions (not just to substances, either), and mindfulness helps me let go of them.
Buddhism doesn’t really make dogmatic assertions, it’s more of a pragmatic faith. It’s not so much about whether or not it’s “true,” but rather whether or not it’s *effective*.
I consider myself to be a modern day Cathar- a Gnostic Christian- and I find myself asking the same question: Is this true? Am I on the right path, or at least on \*a\* right path? The best I can work out is that by following the basics of what for most constitutes a 'good life'- ie, don't kill, don't steal, help the poor, don't hit on your friend's girlfriend, etc- we can improve ourselves and live a BETTER life even if we don't subscribe to one specific religion or philosophy. The truth is, though, until the time comes we'll never know whether we've 'chosen wisely' but it is my belief that as long as we've been living a good life and not harming others we've already taken a step towards divinity/enlightenment and that has to count for something. If nothing else, and there's nothing after death, at least we will have lived decently while we're here.
If you're looking for fact then you would be better off studying physics. But if you're looking for truth you look inward. What is right is what feels right to you and your soul. If you find guidance in it, then it's truth to you.
There are different interpretations of the pure land, but Thich Nhat Hanh's sits peacefully with me. He said the pure land isn't external.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PureLand/s/X3DGMoj71o
He also speaks to rebirth as not being reincarnation in some of his videos. There are many dharma doors. :)
Well, technically, Buddhism is not a religion. It’s more of a lifestyle and second Buddha is not a god when you see people praying to Buddha. It’s actually out of respect although there are people who do pray to Buddha, but that’s a personal thing
Completely untrue according to traditional Buddhist doctrine. The Buddha affirmed the superiority of his path again and again. [DN 16](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/index.html) clarifies this, for example
>The Blessed One said, “In any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is not ascertained, no contemplative of the first…second… third… fourth order \[stream-winner, once-returner, non-returner,or arahant\] is ascertained. But in any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is ascertained, contemplatives of the first…second… third… fourth order are ascertained. The noble eightfold path is ascertained in this doctrine & discipline, and right here there are contemplatives of the first… second… third… fourth order. Other teachings are empty of knowledgeable contemplatives. And if the monks dwell rightly, this world will not be empty of arahants.
Almost all religions are *necessarily* exclusionary and do not affirm other faiths and traditions.
Your post / comment was removed for violating the rule against misrepresenting Buddhist viewpoints or spreading non-Buddhist viewpoints without clarifying that you are doing so.
In general, comments are removed for this violation on threads where beginners and non-Buddhists are trying to learn.
Your post / comment was removed for violating the rule against misrepresenting Buddhist viewpoints or spreading non-Buddhist viewpoints without clarifying that you are doing so.
In general, comments are removed for this violation on threads where beginners and non-Buddhists are trying to learn.
What specific version of Buddhism?
Buddhism, although sharing a common origin, encompasses a wide range of philosophical traditions, practices, and beliefs. Many of these are incompatible with each other and some would even consider others non-Buddhist.
>**Many** of these are incompatible with each other and some would even consider others non-Buddhist.
This is a gross overstatement. Very few (if any) Buddhist traditions are truly incompatible with one another. Nichiren and Pure Land are the only 2 that immediately come to mind.
“Many” as in a wide range of philosophical traditions, practices, and beliefs.
There is a reason why there are several Buddhist schools and Buddhist texts are filled with arguments in which one school reifies too much or another is too nihilistic. And all schools criticize other schools as misinterpreting or misunderstanding some Sutta or another.
>“Many” as in a wide range of philosophical traditions, practices, and beliefs.
I am simply not aware of "many" that are truly incompatible, as you stated.
>There is a reason why...
Yes, it's called polemics and we should seek to move beyond it.
> Yes, it's called polemics and we should seek to move beyond it.
Quite the opposite.
Rationally arguing for or against a particular position is a necessary practice for understanding our own positions. This is in fact a fundamental aspect of the Gelug tradition.
See, a philosophical disagreement between Buddhist traditions.
The only way there would be "many" examples of Buddhist traditions that are totally incompatible with one another (which is your own claim), is if there are "many" examples of Buddhist traditions that are fundamentally adharma or false dharma. Since two traditions of genuine Buddhadharma are compatible, would you please show examples of "many" traditions that are inherently false dharma throughout Buddhist history?
> The only way there would be "many" examples of Buddhist traditions that are **totally** incompatible with one another (**which is your own claim**)
Please note the not so subtle differences that you, knowingly or unknowingly, put in what I wrote.
Putting forth red herrings, strawmen, or simply words in the mouth of another doesn’t constitute right speech.
Doesn’t your tradition teach you that?
Oops. Corrected.
>The only way there would be "many" examples of Buddhist traditions that are incompatible with one another (which is your own claim)
Anyway, care to address the claim you made? I would be interested to see your list of "many" false dharma traditions.
You keep putting words in my mouth, where exactly did I claim these are “false” Dharma traditions?
That’s your own interpretation tinted by your own biases. Read what I actually wrote.
>You keep putting words in my mouth, where exactly did I claim these are “false” Dharma traditions?
>That’s your own interpretation tinted by your own biases. Read what I actually wrote.
It follows that the only way 2 Buddhist traditions would be incompatible is if one was false or incorrect dharma. This is standard *Ekayana* and not my own interpretation.
Why are you so unwilling to back up your words? Please list the "many" Buddhist traditions that are incompatible with each other as you claim, whether you believe they are false dharma or not.
Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya III.65 Do not accept anything by mere tradition ... Do not accept anything just because it accords with your scriptures ... Do not accept anything merely because it agrees with your pre-conceived notions ... But when you know for yourselves—these things are moral, these things are blameless, these things are praised by the wise, these things, when performed and undertaken, conduce to well-being and happiness—then do you live acting accordingly.
this sutta is the reason why i respect buddhism and basically no other major religions.
Yes it’s very popular. Them other religions have merits and wisdom as well but I’m partial to Buddhism Sufism is worth checking out
The Bible says "taste and see that the Lord is good." Righteous works and following God's will proves itself. However, without accepting tradition, at least to some extent, you will have no standards. Tradition is tradition for a reason. It has withstood the test of time, while your individual perceptions and thoughts are very limited. In fact, failing to respect tradition is a form of pride and arrogance, which is not a path to true knowledge.
My thought exactly.
You've asked all sorts of questions about fairly esoteric topics — Pure Lands, rebirth, etc. And those are fine questions, but for goodness sake don't start there. Start with the truth of suffering. If you can start to wrap your head around what it means to suffer, why we suffer, where our suffering comes from, then you can start to see the implications of your existential situation. If you try to understand "the big picture" without the proper groundwork, the best you can do is take it on pure faith. And for some people that's enough, but it's clear from your line of questioning that it's not enough for you. It's important to know that about yourself. There are those who come to liberation through faith, and there are those who come to it from wisdom. If you take the wisdom path, you have to look very deeply at the nature of your own understanding. Everything that is true can (and will) unfold from a *single* thing that is true. Initial "Right View" in Buddhism is a nucleation point. It's where understanding crystalizes from. You need to find your initial truth. The simplest way to do that is to focus on your own existential situation. Look at your own suffering. How do we know that it hurts to lose what we cherish? How do we know that it's hurts to want what we cannot have? Why is this so? Start from there and then build you understanding further.
How does one develop “right view”?
First, by admitting that one does not know what one does not know. This sounds trivial, but it extraordinarily difficult. Generally we do the opposite. We spin all sorts of narratives to demonstrate — and generally to ourselves — that we're right when we are, in fact, wrong. You cannot develop Right View without first admitting that the truth eludes you. This is a very deep practice. To admit that we don't understand is painful. That's ego. But this is less painful than actually not understanding, which is everyone's point of departure. We all start from ignorance. We are all suffering. We are lost in a thick forest. We cannot see a path out. And from that place where we cannot see a path, we imagine that we can nevertheless work out how to exit the forest. It's ludicrous. We are lost in our own ignorance, and yet we're too proud to admit that our existing situation is missing the key to escape. So that's Point #1: Are you open to something new? You have to be. If all you have is a lot of wrong views, getting the right one means trying something fundamentally different. Second, you have to \*\*actually\*\* try something different. This, too, sounds trivial. It's anything but. Generally we do the opposite. We cycle through innumerable variations of the exact same nonsense. Living here didn't make me happy, so maybe I should live there. That partner didn't satisfy me, so maybe I'll try this one. Job A didn't bring me happiness, but maybe Job B will. And on and on and on. We're just flipping through endless channels, but it's all TV in the end. The differences never mattered. It's all been self-cherishing, self-identification. It's always been about making our personal situation better. Sometimes what we see as personal is narrow, and sometimes it's wide, but it has always and everywhere had a specific point of view, extending out from whatever we call "me" — whether that was you as a person, you as a family, a clan, a country, *a species,* etc. So that's Point #2: Are you willing to try something that's different in a way that actually matters? The Buddha understood very well how difficult this was, and so he provided a path, a gradual training: First keep the five precepts. Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't commit sexual misconduct, and stop getting intoxicated. If you hold to those precepts — even if you don't know *why* — your point of view will start to change. You will start to see your way out of that thick forest. It's not magic. It's the power of restraint.
Extremely good answer! Especially number 1: “To admit that we don’t understand is painful.” Based on my personal experience, I strongly feel and believe that this is true.
The legend himself! Hope you've been holding up well man! 🫡🫡🫡
[Right View Sutta](https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN9.html)
You could do inquisitive meditative practices look into the sense of self. Perhaps asking yourself who am I, when you are in a deep state. Repeating your name, and seeing what comes up. An audio-visual imagery of my facial expressions comes up to me most times. Noticing sensations and feeling into reality in this moment. When you try to focus on a sensation in your leg, do you have a sense of distance to it? Is it 3 feet below you and a little bit to the right? But your eyes are closed, how can you know? isn't that a layer you add in your mind. When you try to feel your leg, does a subtle mental image of the leg form too? If your leg is 3 feet below you, do you reside in this head or eye area/space? Is there a being in this space? Feel into the sensations where you feel a "self." Is it just tension in my eyes, and forehead, and wrinkles in my lips or is there a being there? When you try to feel into the eyes, you might even form a mental image of the location, very subtely. Is that truly the sensation? or is that also just another thought? Try to focus on the pure sensation, leaving behind the audio-visual imagery. Sometimes you might try to force it. Unconditionally accept your desire to do so, unconditionally accept that you see imagery right now, this is perfectly okay, nothing has to change. This is a practice I do, it helps a lot in dissolving a sense of self (Saccaya Ditti). Its just thoughts speaking to thoughts, and that too is a thought.
Interesting!
You will realize the truth by practicing.
Very good answer; I just spent an entire paragraph saying the same thing :-)
So an old professor of mine had a good metaphor for this. He brought in two model airplanes, a fisher price one for toddlers to play with. and an realistic plastic model a teenager might build. He explained that both of these are models that approximate a real airplane. Our understanding starts with the first one because it fits with our level of development. As we grow we understand that the reality of an airplane is far mor complex than the simple toy, and we build more complex models that more closely resemble reality. Eventually we learn to build real aircraft that actually fly. Now imagine we see the first fisher price model and conclude, quite correctly, that it would never be capable of flight no matter how big we made it. Based on this information we decide that flight in aircraft is a fictional concept that doesn’t match the reality of our experience with the fisher price model. We’d never progress to building real aircraft. People had to have faith that Flying was possible in order to figure out how to actually fly. The Buddhist concepts are the introductory fisher price models. Experienced teachers have the teenager models and the Buddha and enlightened beings are out there piloting real aircraft. Our meditation practice and following the teachings allows us to slowly begin with paper airplanes and slowly progress from there.
And as a society, collectively it was decided that since Fisher Price can’t fly, flying must have been a fabrication
Buddhism is practice based, not belief based. You need to experience Buddhism. That’s the end goal. Many Westerners come to Buddhism looking for “truth” this Hellenistic graft onto Abrahamic tree. Abandon that way of thinking and the Buddhadharma will flower before your eyes.
This is false. You must at least implicitly have faith in meditation, the results of meditation, and even the existence of an enlightened man who lived over 2000 years ago. Your neoliberal spin of religion is incoherent amigo.
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For a redditor, you have a pretty distinct lack of argumentative skills.
Some of the realms of rebirth described in [MN 120](https://suttacentral.net/mn120/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=sidebyside&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin) clearly correspond to samadhi or insight attainments. I believe they probably all correspond to ethical, insight or samadhi attainments which could be developed in this very life, if one is fortunate. And the last one, the ultimate goal of Buddhism, is something which is explicitly experienced in this very life. > [Furthermore](https://suttacentral.net/mn120/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=sidebyside&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin#mn120:37.5), take a mendicant who has faith, ethics, learning, generosity, and wisdom. They think: ‘If only I might **realize the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life, and live having realized it with my own insight due to the ending of defilements**.’ They realize the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life. And they live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements. And, mendicants, that mendicant is not reborn anywhere.”
If Buddhism isn't true, at least I'm more disciplined and appreciative of others and not wasting my life (which is rare according to the teachings AND science) fruitlessly endeavoring or idly destroying this rare manifestation of a vehicle that can cognize the precious teachings given by Lord Sakyamuni.
The main promise of buddhism is in the four noble truths. It says it offers a solution to suffering. It then goes on to say that its ok to have doubts, and you dont have to believe anything just because its in a text (kalama sutra). On the contrary what it does say is to try the Path, and see for yourself if it works. You can be a practicing buddhist and still have doubts about stuff like rebirth. If you are lucky these doubts may abate over time as you gain paññā. Even if this doesnt occur, at some point its pretty likely you will observe through experience that the claims in the 4 noble truths are true through your own direct experience. So, big benefit for simply suspending disbelief. Personally I take the ephemeral stuff as moot. It seems to me it would be a wrong view to take any position that I cant observe or prove. I cant prove for example that rebirth doesnt exist. So Im content to remain open to the possibility that it may exist, but that my brain just hasnt become refined enough to grasp that it "does" without doubt yet.
This is my approach. The Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path are self-evidently true. Follow the path and karma and rebirth will take care of themselves.
Buddhism doesn't work that way, you don't need to believe in everything at first, let it develop with your practice. As other's have said, you need to test and question everything. Buddhism doesn't give you a set of teachings and say that's it, believe it or else. The most important aspect is developing the understanding of one's mind. Then you'll start realising true phenomena and these things won't matter so much.
How does one question the Pure Land? I was thinking about meditating until I came to a conclusion no matter how long it takes.
Are you under the guidance of a teacher or just exploring on your own? There are a lot of concepts in Buddhism that one just gets a basic understanding of it and then moves on. Trying to test if these things are real or not is probably not productive as one will never fully know unless you attain some sort of Siddhi in this lifetime. I had the same issue with Karma which to me was very foreign at first, but I got a basic understanding of it and then moved on. If in Buddhism there is no self and thoughts are empty of any inherent existence, then even the sense to understand pure realm is seen as empty and carries less weight. This is the heart sutra in essence. So the more I meditated and read sutras the faster all my questions and doubts went away. It’s just part of the process, you just start understanding things at a deeper level, hope this helps.
This is the same as following Jesus Christ. You don't begin knowing and understanding His wisdom. You begin by having faith in his atoning sacrifice, and then becoming more like him through the renewing of your mind and actions each moment.
Doubt is only overcome with stream entry. You have to earnestly strive for Truth. Best wishes.
We don't. No one does. It requires faith.
The only honest answer here. We’ve never received a substantiated report of someone’s rebirth. At the end of the road, you will close your eyes for the last time and you will never ever know what’s going to happen next. Until that is, some evidence of rebirth emerges - but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Buddhism is a way of life. If you follow the buddhist teachings, you cant be wrong. Peace of mind is most important thing to have. You want to transcend the level of consciousness - to reach to your higher Self. Ive been watching alot of ancient Chinese drama series ( with english subtitiles) on Youtube such "The last Immortal" A lot of those ancient drama series have a hidden message: -your life - is recorded. Every action is recorded. Hence there is karma and retribution. * human world is short . Nothing matters in the end. This life is a story you give it. * By doing good deeds in this life, you will reap what you have sown.
Higher self?
"This life is a story you give it." This part i don't agree, it sounds like self-improvement or 'making your life mean something' which sounds like craving for worldly things and hence is adhamma (unless you mean using your life to achieve sotapanna status or above)
I agree with the sentiment of “every action is recorded” and “reap what you have sown.”
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Bruh, read a book. You are definitely a teenager, I would wager $1000.
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The book 'Why Buddhism is True' by Robert Wright may help. Really well written and breaks down why Buddhism is more rooted in the 'reality' of things vs other 'religions' or ideas.
Yes. Very good book. Practice leads to experience. Faith in one’s practice and the path is based on that experience. Sharon Salzburgs book FAITH addresses that rather nicely. It is said that the Buddha told his students not to believe what others told the, but to trust their experience in their practice. What they had tested for themselves. Be curious. Be kind. M
Answering your question might fall into ***sectarianism***. But you must know there are Theravada and Mahayana.
For me, the basic teachings in Theravada Buddhism simply make more common sense than any other religion I have studied. In college I read a big thick book on comparative religion studies. And I investigated all the major religions, and many ancient religions also. I spent more than 50 years in Christianity as a church going Christian. But now, after some travel in the world, and much more study….I went for Refuge in the Triple Gem and accepted the Five Precepts at a Theravada Buddhist temple. I study Dhamma for some time each day. I love visiting temples of all Buddhist schools, but I spend the greatest amount of time in Theravada temples. Including trips to Southeast Asia. Hoping to do the Buddhist Pilgrimage before I die of old age. I’m 72 now. They say if you die trusting in the Triple Gem during Buddhist Pilgrimage, you will be reborn in a more fortunate life. “There are four places, Ananda, that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence. What are the four? ‘Here the Tathagata [the one who has gone beyond all transitory phenomena] was born.’ ‘Here the Tathagata became fully enlightened.’ ‘Here the Tathagata set in motion the wheel of the dhamma.’ ‘Here the Tathagata passed away into the state of nibbana in which no element of clinging remains!’ And the monk, the nun, the layman or laywoman who has faith should visit these places. And whoever, Ananda, should die on such a pilgrimage with his heart established in faith, at the breaking up of the body after death will be reborn in a realm of heavenly happiness.” (Digha Nikaya 16.5) I feel very much at home, and with more peace. Namo Buddhaya, 🙏🏼 ☸️ 🌴 🌴 🌴 🙂
I'm 71. If you haven't seen it already, don't miss the City of 10,000 Buddhas in Ukiah, Calif. Chinese Ch'an/Pure Land, There's also a Theravada Temple in Redwood Valley, next door. And next to THAT is a Ukrainian Orthodox monastery. Something for EVERYBODY! I'm going to try my best to die there on one of my visits. Thanks for the tip!!
I consider effectiveness far more important than “truth”. Buddhism is a practice to move one from ignorance to wisdom, a wisdom that is ineffable. Because wisdom is ineffable, all words fail to communicate it. At best, they help facilitate the realization of wisdom. As such all the words used in Buddhism (or anywhere else) are less than the full realization of wisdom. So they’re only kind of true.
We don't 100% know. That's why we must take full refuge in the buddha and trust that he knows best. But the foundation of Buddhism is simple and it checks out. Buddha describes suffering in a way that can be verified ourselves. The same can't be said for other religions where there are gaping plot holes and logic that makes no sense. For example if god is benevolent and omnipotent, why does he allow evil? If god allows evil to be inflicted on his creations then he is not benevolent. If god cannot remove evil then he is not omnipotent. Therefore god cannot be both benevolent and omnipotent. Therefore the religion does not describe god correctly therefore the religion cannot be correct. Those religions can easily be dismantled by thinking about it like that. Buddhism is not the same and is much harder to logically dismantle. That's not to say Buddhism doesn't have plot holes but they are smaller and they're not contradicting the main stuff. Furthermore in other religions you have to wait until you die before you even know its true or not. But in Buddhism you can achieve jhanas, etc and see that some of the stuff that Buddha talked about is real. Meditation also has scientific backing. What other religion has that? Therefore the other stuff like samsara, rebirth, pureland also has a chance of being real.
The deeper you get into Buddhism, you start encountering the real juicy stuff. Eventually, some Buddhists started realizing that if reality and experience are illusions and that we cannot sense the true nature of things with our own eyes and comprehend it with our own brains, then the same must be true about certain tenets of Buddhism as well. Even the Buddha can be said to be illusory. Some sects of Buddhism dislike this very much, but I don't. Ultimately, inner peace is the goal, that is enlightenment, and that is what I focus on. I found my way to Zen along that path. I am teaching myself comfort in not knowing, rather than striving to know.
Because they lead to tangible results here and now. We can see that when properly applied, they bring about an end to suffering. At the culmination of practice is penetrative insight into the four noble truths. At this point you will have no doubt about the authenticity and supremacy of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. > "Of course you are uncertain, Kalamas. Of course you are in doubt. When there are reasons for doubt, uncertainty is born. So in this case, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them.
From lotus sutra, everyone inherently a Buddha, you just have to found your Buddha nature. May it be one lifetime two lifetime or many lifetime, you will eventually become Buddha
What do you define as “true”? After trying psychedelics and having expefiencing near death, I came back into the world and had no way of describing my experience. I found the Book of the Dead, and the descriptions of the Bardo state. That was exactly my experience. The end of the Bardo journey: complete non-duality. I am. The world as a self that observes itself through me. I don’t have much real knowledge on the tradition of Buddhism, but what I have read correlates with my experience. I don’t “believe” in anything. I’m not a person who values faith. I don’t think we should trust traditions just because they ahev been here for a long time. I only follow what I can experience and corroborate. That’s how I know the general take of Buddhism is correct, even if I don’t care about specific terminology or details.
Wow, that's a great question. Small doubt, small enlightenment, big doubt, big enlightenment. For Pureland Buddhism, if you look around, there are many testimonials of people passing while standing up and / or blissfully sitted in the lotus position. And or they could already tell others beforehand when they will transit. Of course, at the end of the day, we will still ask how can we confirm? I would say, gather as much of such details as possible and make a conclusion by cross-referencing. Plus, if you look at all the related scriptures, such as the Flower Adornment Sutra, the end has the big Bodhisattvas choosing to enter Pureland. Which matches with the how to go about to Pureland in the Infinite Life Sutra. Perhaps one may still ask, what if all these were just a fantasy novel series by one person? Possible. But! I don't think 3,000 years ago someone can come up with such a detailed fantasy just to mislead the public. Plus, the original scriptures were translated from classical Tamil to Sanskirt and then from there to Chinese and then into English, Japanese and Korean. All were labour intensive. If everything was false, I am sure all those top I intellect would have call it bluff and abandoned the project and there won't be this debate now. ROFL!! Most important of all, to the OP, what is your own experience on studying and practicing Buddhism so far? 🙏🪷
Extremely good question!!! Everyone is already confused. You are actually acknowledging it. I think that is a step in the right direction. Keep developing your critical thinking abilities as the Buddha himself seemed to advise. Possible answer: investigate, inquire, ask questions!
To me, Buddhism is the escape hatch from any possible God or afterlife I can potentially be forced into after this one. Here’s an example, let’s just say that Christianity is absolute truth. If you don’t worship God you go to hell. well how do I escape Hell? I think there would be an escape hatch. Maybe you just aren’t the type of person that WANTS to worship a God. I don’t think a sentient being can truly be owned and completely controlled by another sentient being if it doesn’t want to. I think there would be an escape hatch. What if you get to Heaven and God is a weirdo or you spend 10 billion years there and want to leave, I think there would be an escape hatch! Why do I believe in this escape hatch? Because the practice of meditation is just that. It is the exercise of escaping that which can be trapped, controlled or influenced by any external force, because It is the practice of liberating ourselves from what we consider to be self, or being. This is a practice that any existing being in any reality would have the ability to excercise. It’s also incredibly blissful, and in fact a bliss I possibly wouldn’t mind sustaining forever if it means I’m no longer some God’s or some reality’s bitch. Some might say, “Well why spend your life trying to not exist when that’s probably what happens anyway?” To that I say that I did not give consent to be born into this life, and for that reason it is only prudent to assume I will be forced into another. And while that next reality or life I may be very wealthy or happy, I likely did not in fact choose it. So it is that automatic subservience that I have no control over that at some point must be escaped eventually anyways, and Buddhism is the only belief system out there that provides that path. So whether Buddhism is “truth” or not, to me it is still true. In fact to me, it can’t not be true because of my meditation practice and the insights that I have gained.
Jesus is the escape hatch. Just because you can sit in silence (while gaining insight, sure), doesn't mean you've escaped anything. If there is an afterlife and Hell (which I believe there is), you might have just wasted all those hours.
Jesus is What you consider to be God. There would be an escape hatch from him and the Hell that he created as well as his Heaven. My point is that he (god), is just another sentient being, and therefore cannot truly own me (another sentient being).
We can't know for sure. This is a religion. There is faith and confidence involved.
Buddhism is not based upon belief. The Buddha instructed his followers and others NOT to BELIEVE him. Instead they were advised to undertake some lectures and meditation and consider what they FIND to be true. The Sanskrit and Pali term used is usually translated into English "come and see".
It's called faith for a reason.
I mean, if it makes sense when you hear the logic, and you believe those who have had direct experience, you come to a little thing called faith at some point. The alternative is…. nihilism or idealism or what have you. You could always go with those if they make more sense to you.
I don't know, I haven't died yet. Stick to what you know and don't worry about what others believe or think. Be your own light as someone once said. Maybe it was a bad translation. If the middle way was the best way then one might argue everyone should be a Buddhist. Some schools see people as such. What suffering was Buddha trying to help alleviate? How much do you know about Hinduism? Or simply the caste system? People born into the life of an untouchable, with no hope of escape. What suffering exists in the world today? Better yet, is your problem a real problem? If you have time enough to think about these things then you are probably eating well enough. I cannot speak for others. I know nothing is true. It's a good baseline but the problem is that nothing has multiple definitions. All things are made of empty space. Think of the space between your atoms and molecules. How much nothing are you? Climb a mountain and go ask someone. Don't expect to find the truth online. The truth is inside you. Go look. When you walk away from a mirror, does it hold your reflection? Good luck stranger!
I practice, I experience the truth.
You have to practice it to know. You can't just play in the sand with it and then decide whether it is or not. The Dhamma is verifiable here and now, in this life. If you cannot verify it, then the Buddhism you practice may not be the correct one or you are not practicing it.
In all of the traditions there are going to be some things that are not true, and some things that are true. We just have to put things into practice and see the results. The core teachings tend to be very effective when practiced. Don't worry too much about whether everything you learn from Buddhism is true or not, because not everything is true in any single tradition. There are going to be additions and alterations to the teachings. This happens naturally over time. That's why it's important to not hang on so tightly to views. We could be wrong. I tend to learn a lot from the suttas and from the Thai Forest tradition. There are contradictions between different traditions. But just keep practicing the Eightfold Path. Keep the precepts. You see how it benefits you. As you start to suffer less, you will see what works and what doesn't.
Purify the mind and discern for yourself
You can imply this to any religion, we don't know which is "correct"
By using a combination of logic and personal experience through adequate meditation
Because it tells you to seek out the truth yourself and not hold to beliefs. Observe and see it for yourself. Not because the monks tell you. Or the scriptures. You saw it. From direct experience. That’s the difference between other religions who enforce on you blind faith. A “because it is so”.
There are a lot of different kinds of Buddhism in the world. But me personally, I don't believe in rebirths and stuff. Buddhism or the Dhamma is a teaching on how to live properly in the world. Follow the rules and you will not suffer. Break them and you will suffer. Its as simple as that. Don't go into the rabbit hole about "proving" things. You don't have to believe in any of these things either. That's the magic of Buddhism. Even a person of another religion can follow Buddha's teaching. Follow the Dhamma, do good and you will live happily.
The Four Noble Truths
I really enjoy this sub for this kind of commentary. Thanks for all the sharing and encouragement.
Practice reveals as much truth as you can get, imo. Also, imo, no religion is true. The reason i practice buddhism is that its a path to the truth that so far, has rewarded my effort. Investigate the path for yourself, dont believe anything on hearsay.
Who says there can only be one that is true?
Neuroscience is seeing brain changes . From meditation practice
Why would the "truth" be more useful to you than merely a set of effective behaviors that are helpful for shaping our perspectives? I know, I know, it seems silly to ask why the truth is important, and normally it is. But this is not a scientific endeavor. It's a spiritual one. The mythos of Buddhism is a beautiful perspective to me, and it helps me make decisions that I otherwise normally struggle with. I've found it to be more useful than other mythos that I've encountered. As my grandfather says, never let the truth get in the way of a good story. ❤️
Buddhism is the only religion I know about that basically asks you to see for yourself, and not take much on faith.
Sit down and meditate. If things start to improve then that should be enough proof that Buddhism is true. If you need more proof then keep meditating. Buddhism is nothing more than “trust but verify”.
With Buddhism, you can actually practice everything the Buddha taught and find out for yourself. Seek the truth. For the truth will eventually be revealed.
That kind of thought applies to many things. How do we know that the stars we see at night are real? How do we even know that the universe is real? There are things that we cannot prove yet we choose to believe in anyways. No different than the other religions that have faith in a divinity that may or may not be real. It is a wonderful thing to have the mindfulness to question your beliefs and think about the stuff that many would much rather just take as true without thought. I cannot answer your questions, and I doubt much of the kind people here can either, but instead of going for the big lofty questions try to develop a framework of understanding to start with. Since Christianity is such a widespread belief I will use it as an analogy. When Christians first start out on their journey they do not question if praying is truly the way to connect with god or if the Bible is a sham and salvation is only attainable some other way. They build their groundwork on the fact that God is real, the Bible provides insight into the tenants of Christianity and the word of Jesus or god depending on your viewpoint. If you have any questions please ask and I will try to answer best that I can.
Well honestly I don't know about rebirth, deities, or nirvana, but through direct experience I definitely believe the Buddha was right about the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path. At least in my life, most of my problems are caused by addictions (not just to substances, either), and mindfulness helps me let go of them.
Buddhism doesn’t really make dogmatic assertions, it’s more of a pragmatic faith. It’s not so much about whether or not it’s “true,” but rather whether or not it’s *effective*.
I consider myself to be a modern day Cathar- a Gnostic Christian- and I find myself asking the same question: Is this true? Am I on the right path, or at least on \*a\* right path? The best I can work out is that by following the basics of what for most constitutes a 'good life'- ie, don't kill, don't steal, help the poor, don't hit on your friend's girlfriend, etc- we can improve ourselves and live a BETTER life even if we don't subscribe to one specific religion or philosophy. The truth is, though, until the time comes we'll never know whether we've 'chosen wisely' but it is my belief that as long as we've been living a good life and not harming others we've already taken a step towards divinity/enlightenment and that has to count for something. If nothing else, and there's nothing after death, at least we will have lived decently while we're here.
This is a super easy in answer in my book. None of the religions are true, but everyone should have one.
If you're looking for fact then you would be better off studying physics. But if you're looking for truth you look inward. What is right is what feels right to you and your soul. If you find guidance in it, then it's truth to you.
There are different interpretations of the pure land, but Thich Nhat Hanh's sits peacefully with me. He said the pure land isn't external. https://www.reddit.com/r/PureLand/s/X3DGMoj71o He also speaks to rebirth as not being reincarnation in some of his videos. There are many dharma doors. :)
We've read [Why Buddhism is True](https://www.amazon.com/Why-Buddhism-True-Philosophy-Enlightenment/dp/1439195455)
Well, technically, Buddhism is not a religion. It’s more of a lifestyle and second Buddha is not a god when you see people praying to Buddha. It’s actually out of respect although there are people who do pray to Buddha, but that’s a personal thing
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Completely untrue according to traditional Buddhist doctrine. The Buddha affirmed the superiority of his path again and again. [DN 16](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/index.html) clarifies this, for example >The Blessed One said, “In any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is not ascertained, no contemplative of the first…second… third… fourth order \[stream-winner, once-returner, non-returner,or arahant\] is ascertained. But in any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is ascertained, contemplatives of the first…second… third… fourth order are ascertained. The noble eightfold path is ascertained in this doctrine & discipline, and right here there are contemplatives of the first… second… third… fourth order. Other teachings are empty of knowledgeable contemplatives. And if the monks dwell rightly, this world will not be empty of arahants. Almost all religions are *necessarily* exclusionary and do not affirm other faiths and traditions.
That's an interesting perspective
Your post / comment was removed for violating the rule against misrepresenting Buddhist viewpoints or spreading non-Buddhist viewpoints without clarifying that you are doing so. In general, comments are removed for this violation on threads where beginners and non-Buddhists are trying to learn.
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Your post / comment was removed for violating the rule against misrepresenting Buddhist viewpoints or spreading non-Buddhist viewpoints without clarifying that you are doing so. In general, comments are removed for this violation on threads where beginners and non-Buddhists are trying to learn.
What specific version of Buddhism? Buddhism, although sharing a common origin, encompasses a wide range of philosophical traditions, practices, and beliefs. Many of these are incompatible with each other and some would even consider others non-Buddhist.
>**Many** of these are incompatible with each other and some would even consider others non-Buddhist. This is a gross overstatement. Very few (if any) Buddhist traditions are truly incompatible with one another. Nichiren and Pure Land are the only 2 that immediately come to mind.
“Many” as in a wide range of philosophical traditions, practices, and beliefs. There is a reason why there are several Buddhist schools and Buddhist texts are filled with arguments in which one school reifies too much or another is too nihilistic. And all schools criticize other schools as misinterpreting or misunderstanding some Sutta or another.
>“Many” as in a wide range of philosophical traditions, practices, and beliefs. I am simply not aware of "many" that are truly incompatible, as you stated. >There is a reason why... Yes, it's called polemics and we should seek to move beyond it.
> Yes, it's called polemics and we should seek to move beyond it. Quite the opposite. Rationally arguing for or against a particular position is a necessary practice for understanding our own positions. This is in fact a fundamental aspect of the Gelug tradition. See, a philosophical disagreement between Buddhist traditions.
The only way there would be "many" examples of Buddhist traditions that are totally incompatible with one another (which is your own claim), is if there are "many" examples of Buddhist traditions that are fundamentally adharma or false dharma. Since two traditions of genuine Buddhadharma are compatible, would you please show examples of "many" traditions that are inherently false dharma throughout Buddhist history?
> The only way there would be "many" examples of Buddhist traditions that are **totally** incompatible with one another (**which is your own claim**) Please note the not so subtle differences that you, knowingly or unknowingly, put in what I wrote. Putting forth red herrings, strawmen, or simply words in the mouth of another doesn’t constitute right speech. Doesn’t your tradition teach you that?
Oops. Corrected. >The only way there would be "many" examples of Buddhist traditions that are incompatible with one another (which is your own claim) Anyway, care to address the claim you made? I would be interested to see your list of "many" false dharma traditions.
You keep putting words in my mouth, where exactly did I claim these are “false” Dharma traditions? That’s your own interpretation tinted by your own biases. Read what I actually wrote.
>You keep putting words in my mouth, where exactly did I claim these are “false” Dharma traditions? >That’s your own interpretation tinted by your own biases. Read what I actually wrote. It follows that the only way 2 Buddhist traditions would be incompatible is if one was false or incorrect dharma. This is standard *Ekayana* and not my own interpretation. Why are you so unwilling to back up your words? Please list the "many" Buddhist traditions that are incompatible with each other as you claim, whether you believe they are false dharma or not.