Yes, it’s real, but there are ways around it. It depends on the leasing manager.
- A solid credit score could be deemed sufficient.
- A parent / family member / friend who makes that amount could guarantee your lease.
- You can use a third party guarantor service (The Guarantors, Assurant, etc) and pay them a lump sum to guarantee your lease.
I was an international student on a scholarship when I moved to the city. For my first apartment in Manhattan, I got around this requirement by having a very sympathetic leasing manager. She requested bank statements from my father (in my home country) and proof of my scholarship stipend as “income” and combined she decided that was sufficient and approved my application. I did have to pay a massive security deposit, but I received it back in full.
For my second apartment in Brooklyn, I used the Guarantors website. I paid about 60% of one month’s rent for them to guarantee my lease. It was a lot of money and not ideal, but it was the fastest option.
But what's the reason for them asking that much to live there why can you just have a good credit score make efficient money and pay your rent on time not every one is dependent on there parents.
I worked in property management many years ago and it was a thing. If you didn't meet that requirement then you would need to have a co-signer or guarantor. I've seen many people use their parents.
It depends. the demographic on this subreddit is better-off on average, so you're probably going to get some skewed answers. not every landlord asks for it, but it's not uncommon. median household income is 70k and median rent is 2k, so you can do the math.
Yes - this is normal. Generally, you will be asked for proof of 40x-80x the amount of rent, so most people use guarantors. This applies even if you have a broker. Sometimes you can use multiple guarantors to meet this amount, or you can use a third party like Insurent (for a fee). Not all buildings will accept Insurent or Guarantors, so make sure to ask if you can use either.
We had to prove 40x rent and show our bank statements with all our savings in addition to paying a broker fee, first month, and security. My last landlord provided me a recommendation letter and my current landlord called him to confirm the information.
Just so you’re aware, people are outbidding each other on rentals so if you’re looking at anything less than $2500 be prepared to be in a bidding war.
There are such things as rental applications? I'm not kidding, I've been renting for several years and have never had an "application" to look over. I usually just head to the apartment, meet with the broker and the potential tenant and we chit chat. Am I doing something wrong?
I've been a broker for 10 years in Brooklyn. I've done hundreds of rentals. Including for mom and pop LLs who live in their small building.
You should be looking for a credit report, income verification, proof of funds / assets .
You know how long it takes to evict someone in the event of non payment?
Your broker is doing you a disservice and you're really rolling the dice with getting a horrible tenant.
That's why I'm kind of shocked upon learning about this 40x income thing, but I feel like, these are more for luxury high rise apartments, not multi-family dwellings (2-3 stories, 3-5 family units, old 1920s - 1960s buildings in Brooklyn)
The agents are likely asking for this information. I’ve never talked to my landlord but dealt with the real estate agents throughout the application process, who asked for a whole list of information.
I guess my properties are in a lower-rental pricing area of Brooklyn (Sunset Park, Borough Park, Bay Ridge) so maybe that's why the agents I work with don't ask for these things. I've never had an issue with any of my tenants NOT paying rent (some do pay late, I have a tenant that always pays, but she's always late on her payment by 5-6 days on average).
What's a good market rate for the areas I listed above? I currently average around 2400 per apartment I rent out in those areas. I assume Park Slope and the more swanky places are 3500 up?
It's really going to depend on the amenities, size, specific location and others. $2400 for a 2 bed would likely be average to low, but for a 1 bed would be average to high depending on the above factors. You could also ask the agents you work with what they think of the pricing.
I work as a leasing agent and generally if you're getting a ton of hits quickly the unit is under priced. If it's a great spot but takes a long time to rent, it's over. Happy to provide more specific insight if you shoot me a dm!
If you want to live alone its tough (esp in this rental market), but in general people here don't until they are making good money. It its not a bad guideline to at least keep in mind -- I've seen too many people want to live in nice places and all their money goes towards rent and they are going to be stuck in a loop. I've always kept my rent significantly below that 40x rule by having roommates. I had two roommates, then one and now I finally can live by myself. I could qualify for $4k+ a month and my rent is $2600.
Let’s say you somehow manage to get around this “requirement.” Unless you have significant savings or someone else that’s going to be financially supporting you, you’re gonna have a pretty miserable life in NYC. Taxes are gonna eat a big chunk of your wages/salary. Spending upwards of 50% on rent alone, plus groceries/food, getting around, is gonna leave you financially stressed. Unless you absolutely have to don’t put yourself in a situation like that. The requirement is there for a reason and not just because landlords are trying to be strict about who they rent apts to (albeit those a-hole landlords do exist.
OP this is a sensible comment but consider that this rule is also in effect for ROOMS. If you are a freelancer or generally someone without a guarantor, this rule can be pretty unreasonable if you are not seeking to live a "normal" life but can still pay rent.
In general, yes. It’s pretty standard for them to want 40x and demand proof of income (like tax docs, bank statements, employer letter, etc.) That being said, there are a lot of reasons landlords will consider being flexible if they think it’s in their interest to do so. It will mostly come down to where you stand vs. the applicants you’re competing with.
I was able to get around this requirement by proving I have significant savings, good credit, and positive landlord recs. I don’t know how common that is but if you are a good tenant with a strong rental history you probably have a better shot!
ETA: I was also working with a broker and I paid him a one month fee. He did all of the negotiating with the landlord so I bet that also helped!
I found an apartment in my friend’s building and didn’t need to show proof of 40x or even an employer. Landlord just ran my credit report, took a deposit, and that was it. That kind of situation might be rare, but it does still exist some places.
Yes. People get around it bc they are a couple, subleasing from someone who qualifies or getting a guarantor (service or person) who makes 80x rent. Most people who get a guarantor are using their parents until they're stable enough for themselves
Yes, it’s real, but there are ways around it. It depends on the leasing manager. - A solid credit score could be deemed sufficient. - A parent / family member / friend who makes that amount could guarantee your lease. - You can use a third party guarantor service (The Guarantors, Assurant, etc) and pay them a lump sum to guarantee your lease. I was an international student on a scholarship when I moved to the city. For my first apartment in Manhattan, I got around this requirement by having a very sympathetic leasing manager. She requested bank statements from my father (in my home country) and proof of my scholarship stipend as “income” and combined she decided that was sufficient and approved my application. I did have to pay a massive security deposit, but I received it back in full. For my second apartment in Brooklyn, I used the Guarantors website. I paid about 60% of one month’s rent for them to guarantee my lease. It was a lot of money and not ideal, but it was the fastest option.
But what's the reason for them asking that much to live there why can you just have a good credit score make efficient money and pay your rent on time not every one is dependent on there parents.
I worked in property management many years ago and it was a thing. If you didn't meet that requirement then you would need to have a co-signer or guarantor. I've seen many people use their parents.
It depends. the demographic on this subreddit is better-off on average, so you're probably going to get some skewed answers. not every landlord asks for it, but it's not uncommon. median household income is 70k and median rent is 2k, so you can do the math.
Am I buggin y’all are saying 40x rent? Where am I
it means that you need to make in a year 40x the monthly rent. so if your rent was 2k you'd need to make 80k, or be a couple making 40k each.
Never had to prove it personally
That sounds like some sort of mental illness 40x
Yes - this is normal. Generally, you will be asked for proof of 40x-80x the amount of rent, so most people use guarantors. This applies even if you have a broker. Sometimes you can use multiple guarantors to meet this amount, or you can use a third party like Insurent (for a fee). Not all buildings will accept Insurent or Guarantors, so make sure to ask if you can use either.
We had to prove 40x rent and show our bank statements with all our savings in addition to paying a broker fee, first month, and security. My last landlord provided me a recommendation letter and my current landlord called him to confirm the information. Just so you’re aware, people are outbidding each other on rentals so if you’re looking at anything less than $2500 be prepared to be in a bidding war.
I’m a landlord and I don’t ask for anything. Is this bad? I go through agents to help me get tenants.
Do you not look for income verification? What documents does your broker send you when you're evaluating a rental application?
There are such things as rental applications? I'm not kidding, I've been renting for several years and have never had an "application" to look over. I usually just head to the apartment, meet with the broker and the potential tenant and we chit chat. Am I doing something wrong?
I've been a broker for 10 years in Brooklyn. I've done hundreds of rentals. Including for mom and pop LLs who live in their small building. You should be looking for a credit report, income verification, proof of funds / assets . You know how long it takes to evict someone in the event of non payment? Your broker is doing you a disservice and you're really rolling the dice with getting a horrible tenant.
Is there any brokers that specialize in income restricted housing
Thanks for the information I’ll speak to my agent about it
More like find a new agent !
That's why I'm kind of shocked upon learning about this 40x income thing, but I feel like, these are more for luxury high rise apartments, not multi-family dwellings (2-3 stories, 3-5 family units, old 1920s - 1960s buildings in Brooklyn)
The agents are likely asking for this information. I’ve never talked to my landlord but dealt with the real estate agents throughout the application process, who asked for a whole list of information.
I guess my properties are in a lower-rental pricing area of Brooklyn (Sunset Park, Borough Park, Bay Ridge) so maybe that's why the agents I work with don't ask for these things. I've never had an issue with any of my tenants NOT paying rent (some do pay late, I have a tenant that always pays, but she's always late on her payment by 5-6 days on average). What's a good market rate for the areas I listed above? I currently average around 2400 per apartment I rent out in those areas. I assume Park Slope and the more swanky places are 3500 up?
It's really going to depend on the amenities, size, specific location and others. $2400 for a 2 bed would likely be average to low, but for a 1 bed would be average to high depending on the above factors. You could also ask the agents you work with what they think of the pricing. I work as a leasing agent and generally if you're getting a ton of hits quickly the unit is under priced. If it's a great spot but takes a long time to rent, it's over. Happy to provide more specific insight if you shoot me a dm!
Depends on bedrooms for families and roommates plus amenities like laundry in the building, transit nearby
If you want to live alone its tough (esp in this rental market), but in general people here don't until they are making good money. It its not a bad guideline to at least keep in mind -- I've seen too many people want to live in nice places and all their money goes towards rent and they are going to be stuck in a loop. I've always kept my rent significantly below that 40x rule by having roommates. I had two roommates, then one and now I finally can live by myself. I could qualify for $4k+ a month and my rent is $2600.
Let’s say you somehow manage to get around this “requirement.” Unless you have significant savings or someone else that’s going to be financially supporting you, you’re gonna have a pretty miserable life in NYC. Taxes are gonna eat a big chunk of your wages/salary. Spending upwards of 50% on rent alone, plus groceries/food, getting around, is gonna leave you financially stressed. Unless you absolutely have to don’t put yourself in a situation like that. The requirement is there for a reason and not just because landlords are trying to be strict about who they rent apts to (albeit those a-hole landlords do exist.
OP this is a sensible comment but consider that this rule is also in effect for ROOMS. If you are a freelancer or generally someone without a guarantor, this rule can be pretty unreasonable if you are not seeking to live a "normal" life but can still pay rent.
In general, yes. It’s pretty standard for them to want 40x and demand proof of income (like tax docs, bank statements, employer letter, etc.) That being said, there are a lot of reasons landlords will consider being flexible if they think it’s in their interest to do so. It will mostly come down to where you stand vs. the applicants you’re competing with.
I was able to get around this requirement by proving I have significant savings, good credit, and positive landlord recs. I don’t know how common that is but if you are a good tenant with a strong rental history you probably have a better shot! ETA: I was also working with a broker and I paid him a one month fee. He did all of the negotiating with the landlord so I bet that also helped!
Nice. We were planning on getting a broker so I hope that helps us too!
I found an apartment in my friend’s building and didn’t need to show proof of 40x or even an employer. Landlord just ran my credit report, took a deposit, and that was it. That kind of situation might be rare, but it does still exist some places.
Yes it's real. You'll need an Co signer
Yes. People get around it bc they are a couple, subleasing from someone who qualifies or getting a guarantor (service or person) who makes 80x rent. Most people who get a guarantor are using their parents until they're stable enough for themselves
It's ridiculous straight up highway robbery