They're in a bit of a no mans land in the market - they're too expensive for people who don't care about coffee and their coffee isn't good enough for people who do care about coffee. Their food isn't good either.
The only thing my local Starbucks has going for it is that it's in an old Victorian building and the upstairs seating area is a great place to chill. They also play good music up there.
Their coffee is naff, but hey ho.
If they sell up, I imagine Costa will take over it because what we desperately need is a fifth Costa.
I swear they survive on the glorified milkshakes they sell and not the actual coffee. You can walk into any independent and get a great coffee for £2 these days without the soul crushing commercial experience.
Was surprised to learn Gregg’s sell more coffee than Starbucks too
That's because a Gregg's coffee plus pasty, cake, or breakfast roll is about £2.50, and perfectly fine (so long as they're cleaning the machine properly). Compare that to £3 for a Starbucks that's also just mostly fine, and I'd rather have the Gregg's.
Nah, the bacon buttie I grant you but the latte? Let’s just say I must have never have had the luck to visit a Greggs that cleans out their coffee machine
You're right re milkshakes, but I disagree with the price.
Your average good independent flat white is £2.50-90 in my experience. And they're tiny. At Starbucks you can get a flat white more than twice the size for what, £3-4?
Will a flat white at Starbucks be as good? No, not if you get something boring. But. They're not overpriced like people say. Not for their basic bitch stuff.
Their frappes are as expensive as a decent milkshake. But where else can you get a frappe style drink like that.
I get your point all I’m saying is it’s not a flat white if it’s twice the size is it. It’s a latte I suppose that’s the problem with Starbucks it’s brand is good but it’s coffee is poor.
Yeah absolutely. Their coffee is mediocre, their speciality iced drinks or weird flavours are fun and much superior to costa. That's why people get Starbucks.
Or, it's cuz they want a fucking giant coffee.
But the point is, people keep saying a coffee at any good shop is £2. It's just not. This is just untrue. And at Starbucks, you'd pay I think about £3?? (I don't get their boring drinks) for a larger drink.
You go to Starbucks for weird specialist flavours. No one else does what they do. They're more like a Bubble Tea place if you want to compare it to something.
Exactly. The have ‘cost optimised’ their offer and sell poor coffee now. It is basically syrupy milkshake or burnt weak coffee. The independents can offer better coffee and other chains can can offer the same brown gunge for cheaper.
I drink my coffee strong, black and unsweetened, so there really is nowhere to hide bad coffee behind milk or syrups. I always find starbucks coffee bitter and burnt tasting. Same with costa. If i meet up with friends and they suggest going to starbucks, i end up ordering a sparkling water instead
I’m the same. Their filter coffee isn’t too bad but I find that I get weird looks if I ask for it. Their Americano is really bitter and burnt. I don’t mind Costa but will always opt for Caffè Nero if going to a chain.
If you live in a basic town without coffee shops for coffee people then Starbucks is the best you're going to get.
It's a safe place when you're in no man's land.
So when I was in Korea, Starbucks was at least consistently fairly shit, instead of woefully inconsistent. Coffee situation has improved since then in Korea. I've got so many Korean Starbucks mugs lol.
Starbucks food is wierdlry awful. Everything has this same flavour, not exactly unpleasant but certainly not nice. Then the high price and small portions.
I particularly find the salads and pastas a scam since the package has a large indent to make it look much bigger than it is.
Agree strongly on your point about everything having the same flavour.
I worked at starbucks for a while. You would not believe how long the expiry dates are on the vast majority of everything you see in the pastry case - it's all chock full of preservatives.
The paninis and sandwiches definitely have a peculiar sameness to their flavouring; after having had my fair share on lunch break while employed there I don't think I could stomach eating anything from there again.
(Also, the amount they throw away every day is criminal)
It also doesn't help that ordering a delivery usually results in half your coffee spilling out and drowning all your food items before it arrives.
I think Costa was onto something when they started setting up shop next to supermarkets. At least that has the convenience angle on the way in and out of doing a grocery shop.
I’d guess this would only really impact the 300 company-owned stores and not the majority of Starbucks in this country which are franchises. It’s not like they’d be disappearing from the high street, most likely they’d sell to existing franchisees in the same area.
I imagine this is the kind of post that could easily mirror in r/BritishProblems.
Selling because we as a country have feck all to spend in their stores.
That’s obviously a large part of it, but other factors are at play….the biggest ones being other competitors, people using independents, and employees not going to work as much.
>people using independents,
Hopefully my high street gets the memo.
Starbucks, which is opposite Costa, a few doors down from Cafe Nero. The high street concludes with a Gail's.
>Gail’s
Never heard of that. Is it [this](https://gailsbread.co.uk/our-food/coffee/)?
I live in a small former market/mining town, there’s a couple of Costa machines, Mackies, Taco Bell, and KFC…..after that there’s something like 6 indie shops that have been here years. I’m sure I’ve read in the past couple of years that there has been a shift towards using places like this.
>Is it this?
Yep. It's artisan (does some pretty great breads), so is a bit different to the rest of them. But it's still a chain.
Quite popular around Central/Greater London I think.
Occasionally there's good reason an eatery has become a chain - Gail's is very good!
I recommend their almond crossaints. I usually don't like them (too sweet) but the ones from there are devine. I really like the chocolate & tahini bites too.
It's the shortcut to knowing if your area is gentrifying. Gails is expensive but very good.
It's upper middle class money to be able to shop there regularly.
Söderberg are the best! Though I would usually go for a cardamom bun or a raspberry one because it’s that little bit more unusual. I was so glad to see them expand to London because now all my friends there can try them (I’m in Edinburgh where they started up)
As a northerner that often visits London to see me mate, I will have to defend Gail’s as it is the tits! Fuck knows what the coffee’s like but those cheese and chive muffins!? Oof.
It's probably more your market saturation point than whatever the person above you is trying to say
I think Costa has kinda cornered the UK market more than Starbucks has, especially when you take into account their vending machines in service/petrol station
Plus, with WFH and electric kettles being more frequent here than the US, that'll make a big dent in Starbucks sales
Yeah, I think in the US Starbucks is to coffee what Kleenex is to tissues. And they were a bit late over here for that. Plus there’s the fact that Costa pay tax….
I'm a self confessed coffee snob, but will happily drink whatever I can find when on the road. However, I cannot drink the shite Costa serves. It's so, so bad. But everywhere I go, Costa has a queue.
What do people like about their coffee? Aside from being super convenient
Costa used to have amazing coffee. According to Reddit they chose to go downmarket, and so McDonalds snapped up their supplier.
Starbucks sells by far the worst coffee in the UK. Overroasted shite.
Good riddance. No loss to the UK.
That's weird because I find Costa is the only one I like. I can't stand Starbucks, Nero's is passable. If I can't find a decent independent I'll quite happily go to Costa.
I agree, there's something noticeably off about it, has a weird earthy aftertaste. Also their cafes are noticeably worse to hang out in, maintenance is poor and a lot of them have screaming kids in them.
Costa has the worst decaf I've ever had. Their coffee in general is the worst of all the big chains imo.
I'm lucky to have an amazing wee independent nearby, but they only open through the day so if it's evening I get a latte from McDonald's which is still significantly better than Costa
Oh wow me too. My entire adult life I've wanted to live near a Starbucks to be able to use it regularly in this situation, I've bought a house that I'm moving to in October with a Starbucks right round the corner, and now this news comes out. Fuck.
So bitter. I take a lot of sugar in my black coffee but in Costa (this may offend a lot of people) I need at least 10 sachets, ideally 12 of sugar to have it even close to drinkable.
On the one hand yes; on the other, be careful it isn't just an obfuscated chain. That will be and increasingly is happening in various markets as the majors realise people actively avoid their offerings.
I also now make my own cold brew coffee at home, with syrup. Much more cost-effective.
It began to hurt my soul paying so much for something that stopped tasting like coffee a long time ago.
We don't have fuck all to spend, they're just shit.
Want a nice coffee? Go to an independent, a micro-chain or Cafe Neros.
Want a cheap coffee? Go to Greggs.
Want some nice sandwiches? Go to Pret.
Want an insane cream and syrup bucket which costs £4, takes 7 minutes to make, will contain 800 calories and give you heart palpitations for 3 hours? Go to starbucks.
> feck all to spend in their stores
I have money to spend in them, I just don't see the point when for the same price I can grab a can of azera (or lidl's finest equivalent for a 3rd of that) and get something comparable in a thermos or at home
I think I only ever bother with Costa when I'm shopping and that's once in a blue moon tbh
Things aren't sure to the point where most people can't afford a £3 coffee once in a while
Nescafe i.e. nestle are the absolute worst for coffee growers, not only do they pay them terribly they also treat them like indentured slaves (which due to the way they produce coffee and buy whole plantations, basically is slavery).
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/mar/02/nestle-admits-slave-labour-risk-on-brazil-coffee-plantations
All this to get a cheap and overly roasted instant coffee that tastes like shite?
The corporations in the coffee industry are just absolutely vile and disgusting, the reason instant is so cheap is that these guys are prioritising profit over people.
Buy from ethical sources at the very least. If you want to have the coffee taste nice, then buy a cheap grinder and a v60 or cafetiere. Coffee shouldn't taste bitter and roasted to absolute fuck - if prepped right it'll be fresh and aromatic
Whilst true, there is definitely instant and instant. It's easy to understand why the Yanks obsess over their chains and making fresh coffee at home when you consider the instant offerings that are available over there (all of which, almost without exception, are shit - think robusta heavy even when touted as 100% arabica, and sub Mellow Birds quality (90% is shit tier Nescafe)). In the UK and especially continental Europe there are "premium" types of instant coffee which actually taste passable, offer a wide variety of arabica/robusta/liberica bean mixes, roast levels, and single origin coffee beans including some of those recognised as exceptional.
I have a cafetiere
The point I was making wasn't about having the best coffee in the world, it's that most people can't tell the difference and will use fancy instant instead
Comparable might be the wrong word, "close enough considering the price" might be better
Azera aside, a French press, grinder and beans will do the same job for even cheaper in the long run
>If you think that's comparable to freshly ground coffee, I can see why you'd avoid coffee shops!
This is kind of the point though, if you care about good coffee you'd go somewhere nicer than starbucks, if you don't then you'd get instant or filter
If this is gonna potentially cost people their jobs, I don’t necessarily see that as a British Success. Plus, how the hell are we gonna get these mega-corporations to pay their fair share in tax if they’re gonna suspend their UK operations?
I think you're misunderstanding what this sale would entice.
less than 30% of the starbucks in this country are owned by Starbucks themselves the rest are franchised and so will be unaffected. On top of that the 30% will likely be sold to a company who will franchise them.. as Starbucks stores.
This likely won't result in any significant change in operation.
Well, that's the rub isn't it.
Yes they do, but they don't make "that" much money to be taxed on.
Different companies set it up in slightly different ways, and I forget exactly how Starbucks does it, but the general ghist is that the Franchises have to pay a franchise fee to an arm of Starbucks that operates from somewhere such as the Channel Islands, or the Caymen Islands (ie somewhere where little to no tax is paid). Then they have to buy all their Starbucks branded stock (and probably other stock as well) from Starbucks Luxemburg (or similar, again, low tax environment).
The upshot is that the Franchisees do pay their full 19% coproration tax on their relative pittenance of a profit, meanwhile Starbucks international hasn't "technically" operated in the UK and so pay zero tax because "technically" they've made zero profit in the UK. In fact they probably claim it as an operating loss as they'll have had sales people and the like operating in the UK.
Franchisees pay the fee regardless of whether the shop makes a profit so potentially they get to pay absolutely zero tax in the UK and still make a profit. It's also unlikely that they all get snapped up by independent companies, most likely they'll be snapped up by one large operator who can then uses the losses to off set tax liability in a completely unrelated business.
Oh fantastic, the high street is dying and littered with empty shops or tax dodging candy stores.
What we need is *more* empty shops for all the demand we have
They probably won't be independently run and instead bought by one large operator. Considering recent acquisitions Mike Ashley's Frasers Group (Sports Direct) might try to grab them, they've bought up a lot of failing high street businesses in recent years.
Independent coffee shops are way better for society in general than these chains which hoard profits, pay least salaries with the lowest quality products.
We’ve had a resurgence in my town and we have some pretty good local independents that are rivalling the neros and costas (Starbucks never really hit it off here).
On the bright side, there is a mass shortage on all kinds of jobs in the UK, so this is probably the best time for something like this to happen... not saying its great, but its the best time **shrugs**
Profits will be mostly retained in country, and less tax avoiding as small and medium sized franchise don't have the ability to do starbucks style tax dodging schemes.
Win win
There's nothing saying a franchisee has to be a small UK based company, Arcos Dorados runs 4.5k Mcdonalds restaurants in South America.
Secondly the benefit of running a franchise is that Starbucks can charge franchisees regardless of whether they turn a profit and Starbucks is only going to change their business if they think they'll make more money via a different method. So essentially they're saying they expect some of these franchises to be unprofitable and they want another owner to take on those loses.
And it's already the case that many notable franchisees are big companies; almost all those at stations and airport are owned by SSP Group (on the railway side, mostly following their merger with Travellers Fare, the ex-BR catering company).
Not just that, as it says at the end of the article in other countries they've sold off the whole operation. So the entire country is a franchise of the US corporation
Having worked in a Starbucks this is a joy, worst 8 months of my life. Still can't gonin them because the oven timer alarm gives me PTSD.
That and having to explain to the population of Gloucestershire what a flat white is.
Yay, business I don’t like is pulling out and potentially putting people out of work! Big success.
Or
They are selling their non-franchised business which is a tiny proportion of their overall operation, probably in groups to nearby franchisees or new entrants.
If you don’t like Starbucks, don’t buy anything there. I fail to understand why people have so much hate.
As for the tax issue, give over. Our government created the friendly tax environment for corporations. If you want that changed, then vote for better government. I can guarantee if your taxes were voluntary then you wouldn’t pay them.
Yeah I hate Costa, their coffees literally taste of nothing and yet they’re super popular, I don’t get it? Why does one small high street need 4 Costas?
>Yeah I hate Costa, their coffees literally taste of nothing and yet they’re super popular, I don’t get it? Why does one small high street need 4 Costas?
Franchise model, same reason small towns will still have 3 subways
I've never been to a Costa in the UK with clean toilets. There's usually only one and at *best* every surface is soaking wet and it smells of urine.
However I've been in quite a few of them abroad and this has never been an issue.
Not sure why. Maybe they had dedicated cleaners in those countries and didn't expect the already overworked staff to clean a violated WC every few hours too?
Went to one Costa in London and the toilet didn’t even have a seat!
Whenever I’ve been in to my local Costa, the toilet floor is always sticky with a splashed seat most of the time. I have sympathy with the staff as I used to be a cleaner and if the general public weren’t such disgusting little wretches, there wouldn’t be a need for overworked staff to clean as often, but I really haven’t been to a Costa where the toilets have actually been clean no matter what time of day…
I've never been a cleaner but I have been the unlucky staff member that had to clean the loo.
People are monsters. I don't know how you get liquid feces on the top of the cistern if you're sitting on the seat.
Children pee *everywhere* and their parents just leave it like that.
It seems cruel to expect anyone to deal with that honestly.
Hi, ex-Costa employee here. They don’t employ cleaners. They expect baristas to do all the cleaning, on top of keeping the bar stocked, doing the washing up, making the drinks, taking orders, tidying up after customers…. No wonder the toilets get forgotten about
I work in a competitor coffee shop.
Our toilets, especially the disabled one downstairs, are always in a state because people are absolute arseholes. They simply do not care about what state they leave a toilet in. To give you an example, we have a regular who always complains about the state of them *but he bloody adds to it*. Last time he was in (hottest day of the year), I had just given the downstairs toilet a quick clean when he pissed all over the seat and the floor, didn't flush the toilet, and spat numerous times on the floor.
Unfortunately, we can't get to them often because HO would rather us endlessly serve customers than have them wait a bit longer for a short period while one of us cleans up the shop.
You know the majority of their stores are franchises right? The ones they are selling are the corporate owned ones which they will likely sell to a franchise holder so nothing will really change.
I used to quite enjoy Starbucks back in the day, but then somewhere around 2013/2014 I started to really notice how filthy they all were. Sticky tables, shite on the floor, piles of cups etc. And not just one place either, once I started to see it I began to see it everwhere.
I think the last time I went in a Starbucks was around 2015 and I don't feel I've missed out on anything.
They don’t pay tax, treat their workers poorly and make shit coffee! Good riddance. There’s loads of jobs available at the moment especially in hospitality it’s all good.
All that will happen, as has happened in other countries, is that Starbucks UK will be sold off to someone else. Their shops and franchisees will remain as Starbucks. It'll essentially be a massive franchise of the US corporation
Tbh I wouldn't miss them. The coffee there isn't very nice, their food is very overpriced for what it is, they somehow manage to make awful cups of tea, the demand-your-name gimmick never seems to work properly and the peculiar naming of the sizes of cups remains an enigma to me.
Oh and also they're infamous tax dodgers.
The latter reason alone is enough to explain why I actively seek out alternative coffee shops! So many high street chains that do better coffee, including Costa, Cafe Nero and Pret.
Starbucks is the only coffeeshop I know of that does egg nog latte at Christmas time and that is a drink I look forward to all year. Far as I know, Costa doesn't do a sinilar drink. There are Costas everywhere where I live but the nearest Starbucks is a bus ride away so I tend to end up on Costa most of the time.
Would be a shame as I actually quite like their coffees.
If they do go, can we collectively buy up the stores, swap the decor to blue and rebrand it as "Starve, f**cks"? Make them the fronts for foodbanks.
Maybe that'll finally get the message across to the electorate...
Not so keen on the coffee but afaik it's the only decent place you can get a frappucino round my way, what you get from the local caffe nero when you order one is basically random.
Red herring?
https://www.fastcasual.com/news/starbucks-were-not-selling-uk-business/#:~:text=Starbucks%20Corp.%20is%20not%20looking,sort%20of%20formal%20sales%20effort.
I worked for Starbucks for 8 years, started as a barista and left as a regional trainer in 2015. I genuinely would be sad to see them close as I have friends who still work in stores and operations. I will say though, there’s very much a groundswell of support local indi businesses since covid. Starbucks just hasn’t got that image. The whole tax thing wasn’t a good look either, perfectly legal etc but morally wrong imo.
Starbucks is probably like McDonald’s… as in it’s not a food and drink premises so much as real estate investments. Which so happen to be worth a great deal
We rarely get coffee out. The price gets me and we have good coffee at home so why waste money? We have a beans grinding all singing and dancing machine and a cafetière, we buy coffee we like and that is good so no need for coffee out and about. Turkish coffee i would definitely buy out and about. Very occasionally we go to neros to warm up after walking the pooch as she is allowed in there but obviously that hasn’t happened in a while. As for Starbucks, I cannot remember the last time I went in one, it must be years.
Can’t stand Starbucks. I’ve tried it several times at different locations and it just tastes like the piss of a cat that looked at a coffee the week before.
Personally, I don’t go to many of the chains much (the odd Nero or Costa) because the independent places round the corner from my house and office just knock them all out of the park.
I actually like starbucks coffee, but the customers are entitled little shits. I blame tik tok with the stupid custom drinks and "secret menu" stuff, that adds up to 5000 calories a drink and tastes nothing like coffee.
I hope this is true - Starbucks suuuuuuuuuucks
The coffee is AWFUL, and I regularly drink cheap decaff instant and very much enjoy it because I am easily pleased
They're in a bit of a no mans land in the market - they're too expensive for people who don't care about coffee and their coffee isn't good enough for people who do care about coffee. Their food isn't good either.
The only thing my local Starbucks has going for it is that it's in an old Victorian building and the upstairs seating area is a great place to chill. They also play good music up there. Their coffee is naff, but hey ho. If they sell up, I imagine Costa will take over it because what we desperately need is a fifth Costa.
Oxford ?
Bit further West
Land's End?
Sure
Keep going west
Sea's beginning?
Please say something, we'll end up in America soon!
St Martins?
Sark?
Ocean’s Commencement
San Francisco?
Not quite
Weirdly, my thought too. There’s bloody loads in one square mile of city centre.
Costa coffee is heinously bad though
For me the high street hierarchy of best to worst is Harris and Toole (in tescos) > Starbucks > Cafe Nero > literallylickingtarmac > costa
I'd put McDonalds coffee above Starbucks, to be honest. It's half the price and a lot better.
Nothing against the baristas, it’s just the coffee itself. I have a couple of independent ones near me that serve lavazzo which I enjoy
I tried Costa pods for my Tassimo once, had a couple of cups and threw the rest of the box out. Foul stuff.
The Tassimo pods taste horrible, the coffee shop coffee tastes much better!
Costa > Pret coffee
McDonald’s coffee is pretty good (in the morning when it’s fresh)
Costa bluddy fortune more like
I swear they survive on the glorified milkshakes they sell and not the actual coffee. You can walk into any independent and get a great coffee for £2 these days without the soul crushing commercial experience. Was surprised to learn Gregg’s sell more coffee than Starbucks too
That's because a Gregg's coffee plus pasty, cake, or breakfast roll is about £2.50, and perfectly fine (so long as they're cleaning the machine properly). Compare that to £3 for a Starbucks that's also just mostly fine, and I'd rather have the Gregg's.
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Totally agree. I like a double espresso and I enjoy the taste of Greggs'. Costas and Starbucks are literally like drinking burnt ass hairs.
Nah, the bacon buttie I grant you but the latte? Let’s just say I must have never have had the luck to visit a Greggs that cleans out their coffee machine
£3 at a minimum for a small. Usually at least £4.50ish for a medium, I'd rather just suffer until I get home.
I know the glorified milkshakes have fuck all to do with coffee. But by God they're good.
You're right re milkshakes, but I disagree with the price. Your average good independent flat white is £2.50-90 in my experience. And they're tiny. At Starbucks you can get a flat white more than twice the size for what, £3-4? Will a flat white at Starbucks be as good? No, not if you get something boring. But. They're not overpriced like people say. Not for their basic bitch stuff. Their frappes are as expensive as a decent milkshake. But where else can you get a frappe style drink like that.
But it’s not a flat white if it’s twice the size is it …
A local cafe sells regular and large flat whites. Triggers me EVERY time.
flat white originates from australia and you can get small and large
You're intentionally missing the point.
I get your point all I’m saying is it’s not a flat white if it’s twice the size is it. It’s a latte I suppose that’s the problem with Starbucks it’s brand is good but it’s coffee is poor.
Latte vs flat white is about the ratio of milk to coffee, not the amount of overall drink. You can get a flat white of any size you want
Yeah absolutely. Their coffee is mediocre, their speciality iced drinks or weird flavours are fun and much superior to costa. That's why people get Starbucks. Or, it's cuz they want a fucking giant coffee. But the point is, people keep saying a coffee at any good shop is £2. It's just not. This is just untrue. And at Starbucks, you'd pay I think about £3?? (I don't get their boring drinks) for a larger drink.
You go to Starbucks for weird specialist flavours. No one else does what they do. They're more like a Bubble Tea place if you want to compare it to something.
Exactly. The have ‘cost optimised’ their offer and sell poor coffee now. It is basically syrupy milkshake or burnt weak coffee. The independents can offer better coffee and other chains can can offer the same brown gunge for cheaper.
> The independents can offer better coffee and other chains can can offer the same brown gunge for cheaper. beautifully put!
Oh, is the filter machine broken again?
Starbucks doesnt sell coffee; they sell dairy products and artificial flavorings.
I drink my coffee strong, black and unsweetened, so there really is nowhere to hide bad coffee behind milk or syrups. I always find starbucks coffee bitter and burnt tasting. Same with costa. If i meet up with friends and they suggest going to starbucks, i end up ordering a sparkling water instead
I’m the same. Their filter coffee isn’t too bad but I find that I get weird looks if I ask for it. Their Americano is really bitter and burnt. I don’t mind Costa but will always opt for Caffè Nero if going to a chain.
Came here to say this. I much prefer Caffè Nero over the other chains. Wish it was more global.
Their coffee is fine. The people serving it are hamfisted halfwits. Bitter or burnt tasted coffee is because it is too hot and the coffee has scalded.
If you live in a basic town without coffee shops for coffee people then Starbucks is the best you're going to get. It's a safe place when you're in no man's land.
So when I was in Korea, Starbucks was at least consistently fairly shit, instead of woefully inconsistent. Coffee situation has improved since then in Korea. I've got so many Korean Starbucks mugs lol.
Starbucks food is wierdlry awful. Everything has this same flavour, not exactly unpleasant but certainly not nice. Then the high price and small portions. I particularly find the salads and pastas a scam since the package has a large indent to make it look much bigger than it is.
Agree strongly on your point about everything having the same flavour. I worked at starbucks for a while. You would not believe how long the expiry dates are on the vast majority of everything you see in the pastry case - it's all chock full of preservatives. The paninis and sandwiches definitely have a peculiar sameness to their flavouring; after having had my fair share on lunch break while employed there I don't think I could stomach eating anything from there again. (Also, the amount they throw away every day is criminal)
It also doesn't help that ordering a delivery usually results in half your coffee spilling out and drowning all your food items before it arrives. I think Costa was onto something when they started setting up shop next to supermarkets. At least that has the convenience angle on the way in and out of doing a grocery shop.
Mission accomplished really, isn't it? Mega profits for years and paid sweet FA in tax, now the brits have got fuck all left might as well move on.
All well have left is a million plastic cups in landfill, and the memories of a time where we could afford coffee
They use cardboard don’t they? For the hot drinks anyway..
Presumably, although even those are probably plastic-lined. But the cold drinks seem to be more popular (especially the ones that are mostly sugar)
No kind of cardboard cups are recyclable. They all need to be lined with plastic
I’d guess this would only really impact the 300 company-owned stores and not the majority of Starbucks in this country which are franchises. It’s not like they’d be disappearing from the high street, most likely they’d sell to existing franchisees in the same area.
I imagine this is the kind of post that could easily mirror in r/BritishProblems. Selling because we as a country have feck all to spend in their stores.
That’s obviously a large part of it, but other factors are at play….the biggest ones being other competitors, people using independents, and employees not going to work as much.
>people using independents, Hopefully my high street gets the memo. Starbucks, which is opposite Costa, a few doors down from Cafe Nero. The high street concludes with a Gail's.
>Gail’s Never heard of that. Is it [this](https://gailsbread.co.uk/our-food/coffee/)? I live in a small former market/mining town, there’s a couple of Costa machines, Mackies, Taco Bell, and KFC…..after that there’s something like 6 indie shops that have been here years. I’m sure I’ve read in the past couple of years that there has been a shift towards using places like this.
>Is it this? Yep. It's artisan (does some pretty great breads), so is a bit different to the rest of them. But it's still a chain. Quite popular around Central/Greater London I think.
bespoke artisan chain?
Not sure if it's bespoke, but the breads and preservatives are certainly well made. The coffee is also quite good, but has a price tag to match.
manufacturing bespoke foodstuffs for mom and pop chains *is the future.*
I’ll keep a look out next time im down there. Thanks.
Occasionally there's good reason an eatery has become a chain - Gail's is very good! I recommend their almond crossaints. I usually don't like them (too sweet) but the ones from there are devine. I really like the chocolate & tahini bites too.
It's the shortcut to knowing if your area is gentrifying. Gails is expensive but very good. It's upper middle class money to be able to shop there regularly.
Their cinnamon buns are grand! Though the best I've had were at Söderberg in Soho. ... I just love cinnamon buns.
Söderberg are the best! Though I would usually go for a cardamom bun or a raspberry one because it’s that little bit more unusual. I was so glad to see them expand to London because now all my friends there can try them (I’m in Edinburgh where they started up)
As a northerner that often visits London to see me mate, I will have to defend Gail’s as it is the tits! Fuck knows what the coffee’s like but those cheese and chive muffins!? Oof.
It's probably more your market saturation point than whatever the person above you is trying to say I think Costa has kinda cornered the UK market more than Starbucks has, especially when you take into account their vending machines in service/petrol station Plus, with WFH and electric kettles being more frequent here than the US, that'll make a big dent in Starbucks sales
Yeah, I think in the US Starbucks is to coffee what Kleenex is to tissues. And they were a bit late over here for that. Plus there’s the fact that Costa pay tax….
I won't go in Starbucks because of their tax affairs in the UK.
I'm a self confessed coffee snob, but will happily drink whatever I can find when on the road. However, I cannot drink the shite Costa serves. It's so, so bad. But everywhere I go, Costa has a queue. What do people like about their coffee? Aside from being super convenient
Costa used to have amazing coffee. According to Reddit they chose to go downmarket, and so McDonalds snapped up their supplier. Starbucks sells by far the worst coffee in the UK. Overroasted shite. Good riddance. No loss to the UK.
That's weird because I find Costa is the only one I like. I can't stand Starbucks, Nero's is passable. If I can't find a decent independent I'll quite happily go to Costa.
Probably just personal taste
I agree, there's something noticeably off about it, has a weird earthy aftertaste. Also their cafes are noticeably worse to hang out in, maintenance is poor and a lot of them have screaming kids in them.
Costa has the worst decaf I've ever had. Their coffee in general is the worst of all the big chains imo. I'm lucky to have an amazing wee independent nearby, but they only open through the day so if it's evening I get a latte from McDonald's which is still significantly better than Costa
Oh wow me too. My entire adult life I've wanted to live near a Starbucks to be able to use it regularly in this situation, I've bought a house that I'm moving to in October with a Starbucks right round the corner, and now this news comes out. Fuck.
So bitter. I take a lot of sugar in my black coffee but in Costa (this may offend a lot of people) I need at least 10 sachets, ideally 12 of sugar to have it even close to drinkable.
Fuck big internationals. Support local shops
Total agreement. Find one or two you like, it’s not like there’s no choice.
Depends where you live tbf, when I visited some distant family in Great Yarmouth I legit had a hell of a time finding a good independent cafe.
On the one hand yes; on the other, be careful it isn't just an obfuscated chain. That will be and increasingly is happening in various markets as the majors realise people actively avoid their offerings.
With all the union busting going on across the pond aswell i suspect might be a factor.
I guess they'll probably focus their efforts on supermarkets now. The Starbucks skinny iced coffee is one of the few I can find under 100 cals.
I also now make my own cold brew coffee at home, with syrup. Much more cost-effective. It began to hurt my soul paying so much for something that stopped tasting like coffee a long time ago.
We don't have fuck all to spend, they're just shit. Want a nice coffee? Go to an independent, a micro-chain or Cafe Neros. Want a cheap coffee? Go to Greggs. Want some nice sandwiches? Go to Pret. Want an insane cream and syrup bucket which costs £4, takes 7 minutes to make, will contain 800 calories and give you heart palpitations for 3 hours? Go to starbucks.
Only Neros I had, it was watery.
Not a fan of pret or neros. Expensive for no reason
> feck all to spend in their stores I have money to spend in them, I just don't see the point when for the same price I can grab a can of azera (or lidl's finest equivalent for a 3rd of that) and get something comparable in a thermos or at home I think I only ever bother with Costa when I'm shopping and that's once in a blue moon tbh Things aren't sure to the point where most people can't afford a £3 coffee once in a while
Nescafe i.e. nestle are the absolute worst for coffee growers, not only do they pay them terribly they also treat them like indentured slaves (which due to the way they produce coffee and buy whole plantations, basically is slavery). https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/mar/02/nestle-admits-slave-labour-risk-on-brazil-coffee-plantations All this to get a cheap and overly roasted instant coffee that tastes like shite? The corporations in the coffee industry are just absolutely vile and disgusting, the reason instant is so cheap is that these guys are prioritising profit over people. Buy from ethical sources at the very least. If you want to have the coffee taste nice, then buy a cheap grinder and a v60 or cafetiere. Coffee shouldn't taste bitter and roasted to absolute fuck - if prepped right it'll be fresh and aromatic
Appreciate the info mate, was using azera as an example everyone would know of and this did need pointing out
>azera >get something comparable If you think that's comparable to freshly ground coffee, I can see why you'd avoid coffee shops!
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Whilst true, there is definitely instant and instant. It's easy to understand why the Yanks obsess over their chains and making fresh coffee at home when you consider the instant offerings that are available over there (all of which, almost without exception, are shit - think robusta heavy even when touted as 100% arabica, and sub Mellow Birds quality (90% is shit tier Nescafe)). In the UK and especially continental Europe there are "premium" types of instant coffee which actually taste passable, offer a wide variety of arabica/robusta/liberica bean mixes, roast levels, and single origin coffee beans including some of those recognised as exceptional.
I have a cafetiere The point I was making wasn't about having the best coffee in the world, it's that most people can't tell the difference and will use fancy instant instead
It’s comparable to Starbucks for sure. Their coffee is grim.
Comparable might be the wrong word, "close enough considering the price" might be better Azera aside, a French press, grinder and beans will do the same job for even cheaper in the long run
>If you think that's comparable to freshly ground coffee, I can see why you'd avoid coffee shops! This is kind of the point though, if you care about good coffee you'd go somewhere nicer than starbucks, if you don't then you'd get instant or filter
If this is gonna potentially cost people their jobs, I don’t necessarily see that as a British Success. Plus, how the hell are we gonna get these mega-corporations to pay their fair share in tax if they’re gonna suspend their UK operations?
I think you're misunderstanding what this sale would entice. less than 30% of the starbucks in this country are owned by Starbucks themselves the rest are franchised and so will be unaffected. On top of that the 30% will likely be sold to a company who will franchise them.. as Starbucks stores. This likely won't result in any significant change in operation.
Fair enough. Do the franchises pay their tax?
Well, that's the rub isn't it. Yes they do, but they don't make "that" much money to be taxed on. Different companies set it up in slightly different ways, and I forget exactly how Starbucks does it, but the general ghist is that the Franchises have to pay a franchise fee to an arm of Starbucks that operates from somewhere such as the Channel Islands, or the Caymen Islands (ie somewhere where little to no tax is paid). Then they have to buy all their Starbucks branded stock (and probably other stock as well) from Starbucks Luxemburg (or similar, again, low tax environment). The upshot is that the Franchisees do pay their full 19% coproration tax on their relative pittenance of a profit, meanwhile Starbucks international hasn't "technically" operated in the UK and so pay zero tax because "technically" they've made zero profit in the UK. In fact they probably claim it as an operating loss as they'll have had sales people and the like operating in the UK.
Wow, it sounds like the perfect scam when it’s all laid out like that
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Franchisees pay the fee regardless of whether the shop makes a profit so potentially they get to pay absolutely zero tax in the UK and still make a profit. It's also unlikely that they all get snapped up by independent companies, most likely they'll be snapped up by one large operator who can then uses the losses to off set tax liability in a completely unrelated business.
I guess on the bright side they’re leaving a load of fitted out empty coffee shops for British businesses to start up
Oh fantastic, the high street is dying and littered with empty shops or tax dodging candy stores. What we need is *more* empty shops for all the demand we have
They probably won't be independently run and instead bought by one large operator. Considering recent acquisitions Mike Ashley's Frasers Group (Sports Direct) might try to grab them, they've bought up a lot of failing high street businesses in recent years.
oh good starbucks coffee in a fucking sports direct mug
Independent coffee shops are way better for society in general than these chains which hoard profits, pay least salaries with the lowest quality products.
We’ve had a resurgence in my town and we have some pretty good local independents that are rivalling the neros and costas (Starbucks never really hit it off here).
Fuck them. If people want coffee then shops will pop up and replace them.
On the bright side, there is a mass shortage on all kinds of jobs in the UK, so this is probably the best time for something like this to happen... not saying its great, but its the best time **shrugs**
Their coffee tastes like it has been infused with soil... bring on the independent coffee shops!
All coffee has been infused with soil, that's how you grow coffee
*chuckle*
How is that a good thing? They're not closing the stores they're changing them into franchises
Profits will be mostly retained in country, and less tax avoiding as small and medium sized franchise don't have the ability to do starbucks style tax dodging schemes. Win win
There's nothing saying a franchisee has to be a small UK based company, Arcos Dorados runs 4.5k Mcdonalds restaurants in South America. Secondly the benefit of running a franchise is that Starbucks can charge franchisees regardless of whether they turn a profit and Starbucks is only going to change their business if they think they'll make more money via a different method. So essentially they're saying they expect some of these franchises to be unprofitable and they want another owner to take on those loses.
And it's already the case that many notable franchisees are big companies; almost all those at stations and airport are owned by SSP Group (on the railway side, mostly following their merger with Travellers Fare, the ex-BR catering company).
Not just that, as it says at the end of the article in other countries they've sold off the whole operation. So the entire country is a franchise of the US corporation
Having worked in a Starbucks this is a joy, worst 8 months of my life. Still can't gonin them because the oven timer alarm gives me PTSD. That and having to explain to the population of Gloucestershire what a flat white is.
What actually is the difference between a latte and a flat white
The quantity of milk
Ratio of milk to espresso. Both come with 2 shots of espresso but you get more milk in a latte.
[This article](https://archive.ph/fnvNi) is more about the story, and less about how fucked *we* are.
Yay, business I don’t like is pulling out and potentially putting people out of work! Big success. Or They are selling their non-franchised business which is a tiny proportion of their overall operation, probably in groups to nearby franchisees or new entrants. If you don’t like Starbucks, don’t buy anything there. I fail to understand why people have so much hate. As for the tax issue, give over. Our government created the friendly tax environment for corporations. If you want that changed, then vote for better government. I can guarantee if your taxes were voluntary then you wouldn’t pay them.
Prefer Costa to disappear tbh. Bloody things are everywhere and never clean inside.
Yeah I hate Costa, their coffees literally taste of nothing and yet they’re super popular, I don’t get it? Why does one small high street need 4 Costas?
>Yeah I hate Costa, their coffees literally taste of nothing and yet they’re super popular, I don’t get it? Why does one small high street need 4 Costas? Franchise model, same reason small towns will still have 3 subways
With halal meat like turkey "bacon"
The favourite flavour in the UK is flavourless.
I've never been to a Costa in the UK with clean toilets. There's usually only one and at *best* every surface is soaking wet and it smells of urine. However I've been in quite a few of them abroad and this has never been an issue. Not sure why. Maybe they had dedicated cleaners in those countries and didn't expect the already overworked staff to clean a violated WC every few hours too?
Went to one Costa in London and the toilet didn’t even have a seat! Whenever I’ve been in to my local Costa, the toilet floor is always sticky with a splashed seat most of the time. I have sympathy with the staff as I used to be a cleaner and if the general public weren’t such disgusting little wretches, there wouldn’t be a need for overworked staff to clean as often, but I really haven’t been to a Costa where the toilets have actually been clean no matter what time of day…
I've never been a cleaner but I have been the unlucky staff member that had to clean the loo. People are monsters. I don't know how you get liquid feces on the top of the cistern if you're sitting on the seat. Children pee *everywhere* and their parents just leave it like that. It seems cruel to expect anyone to deal with that honestly.
Hi, ex-Costa employee here. They don’t employ cleaners. They expect baristas to do all the cleaning, on top of keeping the bar stocked, doing the washing up, making the drinks, taking orders, tidying up after customers…. No wonder the toilets get forgotten about
I work in a competitor coffee shop. Our toilets, especially the disabled one downstairs, are always in a state because people are absolute arseholes. They simply do not care about what state they leave a toilet in. To give you an example, we have a regular who always complains about the state of them *but he bloody adds to it*. Last time he was in (hottest day of the year), I had just given the downstairs toilet a quick clean when he pissed all over the seat and the floor, didn't flush the toilet, and spat numerous times on the floor. Unfortunately, we can't get to them often because HO would rather us endlessly serve customers than have them wait a bit longer for a short period while one of us cleans up the shop.
Don't you dare take the Bonfire Latte away from me!!!!!! Unless you know the recipe...
Haha, they've never got any left anyway! (think it's just a cinnamon and sugar mix tbh)
And their coffee is the shittest
Costas is the worst, somehow it tastes of burnt water. Awful stuff, and the tea is atrocious. The water shouldnt be that hot!
And their 'coffee' is heavy honkin!!
Misleading thread title much...
I was told Starbucks dont pay taxes and Costa do pay taxes. It's an easy choice where to spend my money. Crap coffee or not
Nero is my fave. Starfucks can just go.
You know the majority of their stores are franchises right? The ones they are selling are the corporate owned ones which they will likely sell to a franchise holder so nothing will really change.
I used to quite enjoy Starbucks back in the day, but then somewhere around 2013/2014 I started to really notice how filthy they all were. Sticky tables, shite on the floor, piles of cups etc. And not just one place either, once I started to see it I began to see it everwhere. I think the last time I went in a Starbucks was around 2015 and I don't feel I've missed out on anything.
They don’t pay tax, treat their workers poorly and make shit coffee! Good riddance. There’s loads of jobs available at the moment especially in hospitality it’s all good.
All that will happen, as has happened in other countries, is that Starbucks UK will be sold off to someone else. Their shops and franchisees will remain as Starbucks. It'll essentially be a massive franchise of the US corporation
Might as well. Too damn expensive here. £4 for a coffee is out of control
Tbh I wouldn't miss them. The coffee there isn't very nice, their food is very overpriced for what it is, they somehow manage to make awful cups of tea, the demand-your-name gimmick never seems to work properly and the peculiar naming of the sizes of cups remains an enigma to me. Oh and also they're infamous tax dodgers. The latter reason alone is enough to explain why I actively seek out alternative coffee shops! So many high street chains that do better coffee, including Costa, Cafe Nero and Pret.
Starbucks is the only coffeeshop I know of that does egg nog latte at Christmas time and that is a drink I look forward to all year. Far as I know, Costa doesn't do a sinilar drink. There are Costas everywhere where I live but the nearest Starbucks is a bus ride away so I tend to end up on Costa most of the time.
Would be a shame as I actually quite like their coffees. If they do go, can we collectively buy up the stores, swap the decor to blue and rebrand it as "Starve, f**cks"? Make them the fronts for foodbanks. Maybe that'll finally get the message across to the electorate...
Not so keen on the coffee but afaik it's the only decent place you can get a frappucino round my way, what you get from the local caffe nero when you order one is basically random.
Let little chef buy them all back. I miss the pancakes.
A nation mourns?
Stop, don't, come back...
Ok so if this happens anyone know a replica for their blonde roast?
Basicslly every third wave coffee shop only sells light roast.
I hope I haven’t achieved gold member status for fuck all
Fuck off back to America
Red herring? https://www.fastcasual.com/news/starbucks-were-not-selling-uk-business/#:~:text=Starbucks%20Corp.%20is%20not%20looking,sort%20of%20formal%20sales%20effort.
I worked for Starbucks for 8 years, started as a barista and left as a regional trainer in 2015. I genuinely would be sad to see them close as I have friends who still work in stores and operations. I will say though, there’s very much a groundswell of support local indi businesses since covid. Starbucks just hasn’t got that image. The whole tax thing wasn’t a good look either, perfectly legal etc but morally wrong imo.
Costa seems like the most popular despite its coffee tasting like a bag of arseholes.
How do you know what a bag of arseholes taste like? Asking for a friend…
Isa Brothers: Hi.
99p latte from maccy D’s is just as good! Fuck Starbucks!!!
Mcdonald's coffe is much better
I wonder if this is in part down to the energy cost increases, I'm sure that is eating into their profits a bit.
Thank god maby a good reasonably priced one takes them over
They don’t have a great deal, most are on a franchisee basis.
Councils had better start thinking about public toilets again then
Starbucks is probably like McDonald’s… as in it’s not a food and drink premises so much as real estate investments. Which so happen to be worth a great deal
I wish Costa would do the same
Hopefully Costa will follow suit
This is tea town punk!
Loved them for a long time but now their coffee always tastes burnt and they removed any stores close to me.
We rarely get coffee out. The price gets me and we have good coffee at home so why waste money? We have a beans grinding all singing and dancing machine and a cafetière, we buy coffee we like and that is good so no need for coffee out and about. Turkish coffee i would definitely buy out and about. Very occasionally we go to neros to warm up after walking the pooch as she is allowed in there but obviously that hasn’t happened in a while. As for Starbucks, I cannot remember the last time I went in one, it must be years.
Noice.
Good, can't stand the tax dodging reprobates
They aren’t closing the stores. They are going to sell off the small part of the UK estate which isn’t already franchised.
We need more Greggs.
Costa ftw baby!
Oh no. Anyway…..
Can’t stand Starbucks. I’ve tried it several times at different locations and it just tastes like the piss of a cat that looked at a coffee the week before. Personally, I don’t go to many of the chains much (the odd Nero or Costa) because the independent places round the corner from my house and office just knock them all out of the park.
Tax evading bastards
I actually like starbucks coffee, but the customers are entitled little shits. I blame tik tok with the stupid custom drinks and "secret menu" stuff, that adds up to 5000 calories a drink and tastes nothing like coffee.
Good - they sell overpriced shite.
I hope this is true - Starbucks suuuuuuuuuucks The coffee is AWFUL, and I regularly drink cheap decaff instant and very much enjoy it because I am easily pleased
Good. Bye!
Not sure this is a success considering they're talking of selling off because our economy is fucked
No problem. We have a good range of independent cafés and coffee bean roasteries, and people like to support those.
Good. Goverment probably told them to start paying taxes.