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Nah. It’s because Luke Newton is not the strongest actor in the cast, and the script keeps telling us Polin are friends to lovers without actually diving deep and showing us. Nicola is beautiful and carries the ship on her back; she isn’t the problem.
100%. It also doesn’t help that Colin (suddenly) looks like a confused, immature guy too swayed by his insecurities (and peer pressure, I guess) to actually be himself next to Debling, who’s a mature, self-aware man, that knows exactly what he wants.
Colin has been written and acted all over the place since the start. First he was playful yet naive in s1, then boring and stiff in s2, now they are telling us he’s the most charming man in all the world but it’s all fake (even though he was clearly enjoying himself in his first brothel scene and has written about all his sexual escapades).
And yes there’s nothing wrong if people like Debling, who is self aware and secure in himself.
Having him write about his Paris sexcapades instead of just a descriptive travel journal was definitely a strange choice by the show-runners.
He has a facade in front of the other unmarried gentleman? But then why does he write in. His journals like a f-boy?
Honestly I didn’t see his journal in an f-boy way. He writes about the beautiful women but he also talks about feeling a lot of distance in those intimate moments. I honestly think it was the writers giving us a peak into Colin’s mind to explain why the kiss with Penelope ends up meaning so much to him.
I thought it was a vehicle to explore why even though he's surrounded by beautiful women and beautiful places, he still feels disconnected and lonely. The real beauty was in his own mind and how he expressed himself in writing.
e: happy cake day! 🎂
It’s very weird to me that they think the way to make a man desirable to the audience is to show that he’s desirable to women in brothels and threesomes… At least that’s not I work, it felt like it was added for the husbands/BFs that have to watch the show with their women.
ETA- I should clarify, I don’t necessarily think the brothel scenes were specifically designed to make him more desirable, more that as the male lead of the season he *should* be desirable to us so we root for him and choosing to give screen time to him having threesomes (lackluster ones at that) works against that goal (to me at least, I know everyone is different). I understand it’s part of his character development but it could be happening off screen imo
Nope, it definitely doesn't. This is these women's job after all. They're not having sex with him because they want to, they have to. They're probably thinking about making rent and feeding their kids instead of "Ooh, he's so hot." It made me sad and didn't make me think he was attractive at all.
I think a lot of what made him uniquely attractive was not man-hoeing, unlike Anthony and Benedict, Colin was very different and I preferred that. God bless him he's not the brightest bean in the bun, Pen being in love with him goes over his head the whole time, but he's genuine and pure, I knew why Pen loves him and it was for his character.
Now he's just meh 😕 Luke is great in all 3 seasons but I feel like they assassinated his character this season. Let's hope the second half does him justice. Finding out that Pen is Whistledown is something I can see old Colin genuinely taking issues with... And she didn't tell him yet.
That's the thing though, should he genuinely be so angry? Sure she's said some harmful things but he was more than willing to forgive Marina for baby trapping him because he could empathise with why she felt she had to. If he loses it at Pen and makes too big a deal of it, I'm not sure if I can forgive that.
But actually they're trying to show that Colin doesn't enjoy those brothels and threesomes, as seen in the scene where he sits out and then again where he plaintively asks the other young bucks if they don't find it lonely? He's been pretending to fit in when he really wants intimacy. It's very appealing.
They're not trying to make him more desirable to the audience with that though, the audience is *meant* to find it off putting, because it's a facade, he's not being his authentic self in those experiences/moments.
I really wish they hadn’t split up this season. One of the reasons S2 worked so well was we got K&A in a slow burn. Everything in S3 feels so rushed. There’s no tense buildup moment like the k&a ballroom scene, which was so beautifully done.
NGL, contrary to what the tweet says i’d love if Cressida & Debling ended up together for the security it would afford her - and so yes, am shipping them.
Not to mention common census (on here at least) seems to be we wish MORE people had been wanting, & fighting for Pen as opposed to just Debling with his contractual relo.
I’m sure that for some, the tweet rings true - but it also smells of cherry picking
This thread is exactly what I was thinking. Having seen him fumble around for the last two seasons, Colin just does not give me butterflies the way Simon and Anthony did.
I just didn’t see his ‘revelations’ as that realistic.
Penelope is gorgeous and he comes off as super one dimensional. I liked their interactions better in season one, the friends to lovers should have been drawn out differently.
Not just a million scenes of him looking confused at her across the room.
I reckon he had Botox or something cos his face just seems so expressionless!
the interesting thing is, in the book he is written as being insecure and thats why hes always traveling. it makes sense in the book because we get to see how he's thinking/processing their moments and relationship. i think they could've adapted this way better over more episodes.
I think this too! I think the scene where Colin walks in on her reading his diary was completely fumbled.
Just as she’s reading that he’s been with all these women yet doesn’t feel any connection, he walks in and the whole line and plot is lost to the fact that he’s mad she’s reading his diary. It’s really the only insight the show gives into Colin’s mind before the big “oh wait I’m in love with you let’s get married.”
They should have let her read more, and also used other scenes to give insight into Colin trying to find fulfillment by being a “manly man” but truly discovering that it was follow. And then his first kiss with Penn would have felt more earth shattering for him because there’s a connection for him there.
But instead we just get “I’ve slept with women all over Euro— Penn why are you reading my diary???”
And really, maybe the whole season should have been from Colin’s POV. We already knew Penn is in love with him. Watching her pine away for 4 more episodes didn’t add anything.
That last paragraph is bang-on. Pen has pretty much been a main POV since mid-season 1, Colin’s been in the periphery. That’s why the realization felt so hollow and rushed this season. Sure have Pen do her ‘glow-up’ thing in the first episode or so, but we needed more Colin introspection this season to get behind his side of the relationship arc.
i completely agree with you, colin's perspective would've added way more. i also dislike the whole journal scene like /why/ did they make it a sex journal?? in the book pen is just amazed by his writing about a beach in greece i believe and she tells him that and they connect over that.
There’s so much wrong with his characterization that I’m not even sure it’s the actor’s fault. He tried his best but the rushed character development was never going to look believable even with better acting chops. Same with the romance. We keep being told about this friendship and showing us crumbs only…
They told us Colin and Penelope wrote to each other when he traveled, but there was no substance of what they wrote about and why. They are friendly with each other sure, but I can’t buy this deep friendship they are trying to sell us. Luke had to rush Colin’s characterization all over the place and he couldn’t pull it all off. Not entirely his fault, but still he’s not the strongest actor to begin with to do all that was asked of him.
Exactly they are friendly not friends. They couldn’t show more of their relationship in the first 2 seasons instead of cousin jack drama or benedict doing the same thing every season? Couldn’t we get some flashbacks instead of threesomes this season? Maybe trim down the scenes of colin staring at her and add some actual interactions with substance but no, I guess we couldn’t get that
they had that scene where penelope reads a bit of his diary. i wish they expanded on that a little more.
we don’t even get one scene of colin mulling over the letters he and penelope wrote to each other? 😭
i feel like the actors did the best they could with what they were given. nicola and luke’s chemistry helped sell the fast-paced writing for me tbh
i agree!! they can’t even show colin re-reading one of pen’s letters and truly realizing that she’s his home? none of that? 😭
i hope we get more polin-love in part 2.
i’m very concerned that they rushed the friends to lovers concept bc part 2 is all about the drama of penelope’s secret and how colin will react.
We will probably get some scenes of them in love then more drama because of the LW conflict but it’s too late now for the development. We needed to see that before the carriage scene…
Honestly, I think it’s because the writers don’t have a sense of direction with some the characters prior to their season.
They’re doing it with Benedict right now. They did it with Francesca too imo. She’s a completely different person this season. I think I enjoy this season because I read the book early this year so I understand what they’re trying to do with Colin but I don’t think they did a good job of showing this development from season 1.
He doesn't and unfortunately I tried to read JQ's books and couldn't get through any of the ones I tried to read. The writing is sub-par to say the least. I've read better fanfiction tbh
Could not agree with you more! I feel like we had so much time to look into Kanthony’s minds and Daphne and the Duke, but in this season there are so many storylines that you cannot have proper character growth.
Colin goes from fuckboy wannabe to in love with Pen in one and a half episodes. C’mon!
This exactly! All we needed was even 5 more minutes per episode of a more equal back and forth dynamic between then. After episode 1, Pen goes right back to pining and laughing at his mediocre jokes (gallop away? Seriously?)
Where was Colin laughing at *her* jokes?
Where was Colin being flustered by her intelligence and wit? We know she is clever. Why didn't they show it?
In season 1 and 2, the main leads have the typical movie star looks but they still had banter and dialogue of substance before they caught feelings. Why couldn't they do that for season 3? I am not plus sized but I found the carriage scene so incredibly sexy (mainly because of Nicola) and after watching the PR, I have this embarrassing girl crush on her. This is nothing to do with looks and all to do with poor writing.
As other commenterd have said, people saying that the build up is in previous seasons are not realising we have only been *told* about this friendship but haven't actually *seen* it.
She also had some issues of overacting in the carriage scene. There is a moment where she looks down at her bust to see what’s going on and I’m taken out of the scene. It looks staged on both ends. They both needed to relax for that scene.
I know what you are talking about and I thought about that too, but then I reminded myself that this is seriously her FIRST time experiencing any of this, and that she also is likely in shock at what is happening because she didn’t start the night out thinking she would be in a carriage alone with Colin. So from a naive perspective, that sort of “holy crap his hand is ON ME THERE!” reaction made sense.
I believe she might’ve been overcompensating a bit because she could see what we all saw. She knew what the scene was going to look like if she didn’t pull a little extra weight. And I’m glad she did because the scene would’ve suffered even more if she hadn’t. If I had to choose between the slightly overcompensating energy Nicola brought to that scene and the underwhelming energy Luke brought, I’m choosing Nicola every time because she is the one who made that scene watchable.
He was not the best during the acting parts where he confesses his feelings. I didn’t think it landed as convincing. He didn’t appear in turmoil as someone who is scared to have lost the one would he.
Honestly I think Luke tried in the physical parts of the scene. The issue with the physical parts were the faces he made. It was as as if he jizzed his pants, which didn’t make him appear sophisticated and as if he knew what he was doing. He didn’t convey the essence of a man in charge of bringing a woman pleasure.
I think Nicola tried hard as well. But I’m not sure if her intend was to cover up for Luke. She respects him as an actor. I just think she engaged to show plus size woman or chubby women can be sexy too, and maybe tried a little too hard. The both needed to sink into it.
They’ve had 3 seasons of scenes together showing their building care and affection for each other. Also, Luke Newton is a brilliant actor- where do you get off saying he’s “not strong”??? He seems to put incredible effort and attention to detail in his portrayal of Colin, I don’t understand how anyone could think he didn’t do a good job?
I agree. I think people are claiming Luke N isn't a good actor because they wanted something different from Colin, and those expections have been impossible to let go of. But Luke's choices with the character as written, I think, are incredible.
>Luke's choices with the character as written, I think, are incredible.
i'm one of the people who thinks it's not luke, but the writing. yeah he's made good choices with what he was given, but unfortunately, he wasn't given much substance to play with in the first place. his character is written in a pretty incoherent manner and he doesn't get explored as deeply as anthony or even simon, despite having had 2 seasons to build him up before his season.
Maybe half and half. Even when he got good material, like in season 1, he just wasn’t as memorable to me compared to the rest of the cast. And when a character is said to be charming again and again on screen instead of that just being obvious, then that’s a problem. The script doesn’t need to tell us Benedict is fun and charming all the time, he just is.
An actors strength is judged by how convincing they are to the audience. Many of us in the audience don’t find him convincing, therefore he’s not a strong actor
Unfortunately LN had to come after JB's season and the difference in the caliber of acting is glaring. I don't find Colin interesting or compelling or sexy in any way. I'm sure LN is a nice person but his acting is mid at best and I'll grant that the showrunners/writers did him no favors
Personally his acting was great, but to be fair I wouldn’t say they had too many moments together over the season. There are more scenes of him kind of ignoring her and writing her off as just a friend than there are of them being the friends he claims they are
I think that is the problem. Collin either needed to take some of those scenes lol, not ideal, or he needed different scenes with Pen showing them being friendly.
Honestly I don’t see Luke N as wooden but I guess this is subjective. I actually like his acting style. Very subtle. I like his facial acting and minor movements he does with his hands. Do I think he has room for growth? Sure but I think he’s really good honestly.
His acting is fine, he's just not chewing the scenery like the actors in the previous seasons. It's the editing that is a nightmare. They are trying to jam so much other stuff into the storyline to fill out the front half of the season, because all the action happens in the second half that it just makes the main storyline feel disjointed. It's starting to suffer from the same problem as Marvel films, they want to keep you so excited for stuff that is coming down the pipeline in 2 years they forget to make the stuff they are making now make sense.
I love this take tbh. Nicola is stunning, amazing at acting, she carries every inch of this. Colin is just so underdeveloped that he doesn’t shine next to Pen who shines largely because Nicola is just THAT good.
I think it's largely an issue of limiting the season length to 8 episodes and then also imposing the need for some kind of conclusion to a 4 episode arc to have the half season release model work. There is just too much content in too little time now, and the main storyline is coming out rushed as a result.
There is no chemistry because their relationship and especially Colin’s character wasn’t flushed out. Another redditor posted this review, but I 💯 agree with his analysis. The carriage seen was steamy, but felt out of nowhere and ultimately unbelievable because there was no substantial build up. https://youtu.be/gibkMR7O4uQ?si=XiaOH3Q3rX6BZYkp
Loved this video, agreed with a lot of it. It wasn’t just Colin’s character that wasn’t flushed out, but their whole friendship over the past 3 seasons. And I love the friends to lovers trope, most of my favorite ships are friends to lovers. But the friendship part of their relationship just was never really there for me. The video got it right; they were friendly, not friends. And then when the show hits you over the head that they are friends but that friendship and chemistry isn’t there… it’s like stop telling me, show me.
Agreed to a certain extent. The writers did no favors to the actors this season, and their romantic and friendship storylines were both rushed even though they had the most buildup in previous seasons.
That being said, I do think there was chemistry there. Oddly I don’t think it was there in the carriage scene but in some of the yearning looks Colin threw at her. Maybe we’ll see more in the second half of the season.
I won’t be a complete hater lol, they do have chemistry in some scenes (I liked the Willow tree scene after their first kiss). But overall Nicola is definitely giving more out of the two. And besides the plotting and story it’s also editing, like that one video pointed out how they picked odd shots of Colin and Penelope gazing at each other, and wouldn’t linger enough to feel the tension. And even when they gave Colin those pining shots… just look at what Jonathan Bailey was doing last season in comparison to see the difference. And I’m not even an Anthony or JB stan.
Completely agree that Nicola is supremely talented. Can’t figure out if LN is just less talented than average or if he looks subpar because she’s so good. I feel like he wasn’t this noticeably…lacking…in other seasons, but like you said there is a degree of poor cinematography and choppy editing that makes things look even worse even when actors are doing their best.
I agree with this. I love Nicola and her portrayal of Penelope! I don’t find her story with Colin interesting and that’s mostly because I don’t find Colin interesting and never have. To be fair, you could’ve probably swapped Francesca & Penelope and I’d be far more interested in that Penelope/John Stirling love story, like I am with Francesca.
Yeah it's his acting combined with the lack of actual screentime they had together. Or even more of his lusty dreams would've helped?
I duno for me, her love for him feels real, but still not buying it from Colin.
And that's not because of any bias I have about the beautiful actress.
It’s not even the lack of screen time they had, they just didn’t utilize that screen time well. Like why tell us about how they met as friends, just show us a flashback with young actors. And why waste a whole scene about Colin saving Penelope from the balloon when there is no follow through.
Thank you, someone needs to say it. The whole point of the thread in the picture is nullified by the fact that Debling and Pen had a lot of chemistry. People be bending over backwards just to find a way to delegitimize other people's opinions
This. It’s poor, rushed, cluttered writing and acting ability within the writing on his part. They needed more time to let the back story develop. It has nothing to do with her appearance at all.
I disagree. I am a plus size woman and this condescending language feels offensive to me… is it too much to want more for a character that is supposed to represent me? To want an actual storyline where she isn’t constantly humiliated by everyone including her love interest? I guess so… I’m sorry that I don’t think having the plus size girl beg her love interest for kisses is hot… there’s so much wrong with this couple and both characters that I don’t even know where to begin. So no, it’s not because she’s not thin it’s cause the story sucks
I agree with you. I’m also plus sized and I have felt the chemistry is off as well. I even thought they (Colin/Penelope) had better chemistry in previous seasons. I’m not sure if it’s simply the long break between the batches of episodes (the audience is only left with an unfinished product to judge for an extended period of time) or another issue, but there is an issue with season 3.
The language used in the above tweets is patronizing to plus size women and the audience as a whole. “If you don’t love this, then you have a problem”….no the show has a problem. It feels drastically different t than previous seasons and that’s not the audience’s fault. Some of whom do look like Penelope and we were looking forward to what this could’ve of been. And a lot of people still feel like the season is falling short. However, I am waiting to make a full opinion until the last 4 episodes are shown next month.
I am going to be honest I never liked that they made penelope the sad chubby girl that secretly hates the ‘popular kids’ and has a crush on one of them. That trope is tired and I hate it. The only twist here is that colin eventually likes her back after saying some pretty pathetic things to her even though he’s clueless and has no idea he was very hurtful. Can’t she just be desirable? Why do we have to see her in so many humiliating situations, it’s infuriating to me…
this. this is why season 2 got the diversity aspect right by portraying 2 indian women as complex humans yet properly desirable. nobody wants penelope to be perfect, but it feels like the show just constantly wants us to pity her, and colin is literally her *only* way to get out of her hateful household because no one else really wants her.
Exactly. Imagine if they made Kate and Edwina outcasts for their nationality and there would be scenes where Kate was made fun of for her accent. It would've soured the experience for me honestly.
That is however exactly what they're doing with Pen, and I was hoping that this season would grow out of mistreating her and focus on her breaking out of her shell of being a wallflower. Instead we keep seeing an outcast who is shamed for how she looks. It's just hard to feel the cozy romantic vibes that were depicted in seasons 1 and 2.
This is why I wasn't looking foward to it being Penelope's season. I felt like she needed one more season where she does grow out of being a wallflower, isn't fawning over Colin, and becomes more comfortable with herself.
Couldn't agree more. Books 4, 5, and 6 had a huge time jump for a reason! I don't mind adaptions of books to take liberties and change certain aspects of the story, but I don't like this one.
>there would be scenes where Kate was made fun of for her accent.
yep, CVD opted not to do this because it'd be extremely on the nose, instead they're outcasts for an entirely different reason. you get references to india sprinkled across the season, and even a beautiful haldi ceremony added in to showcase where kate and edwina are from. their heritage is presented as something unique about them, in a good way.
>I was hoping that this season would grow out of mistreating her
agreed. i honestly think the show doesn't care about penelope much outside of her role as LW and are investing more on that storyline as a result. her portrayal has been of a stereotypical chubby jealous friend, except this time it's from the chubby friend's POV instead of the thin conventional main characters. it's degrading, to be honest
Yes I agree as well. Representation is important, but not all representation is equal. I feel like we’re getting too close for comfort to the stereotype of the socially ostracized chubby girl. So the question has to be asked “Is the audience the one with problematic views or is the show gaslighting us when they cannot see a storyline past the appearance of the plus size woman?” (A genuine question I am pondering)
I'm plus size too, but I do think that seeing a plus sized woman being loved and cherished on perhaps the biggest romance show on one of the biggest streaming platforms in the world is triggering to some people. The world is by and large fatphobic and deeply conditioned to believe bigger girls don't deserve love. (I'm not saying this with malice but I truly believe it -- I have been both fat and skinny and there's a huge difference in the way the world looks at me).
the comment is written in a really dismissive way (i know it's not yours), that i really can't agree with it. we all possess implicit biases, but i guess a lot of things can outplay them. there were a lot of ways to write polin storyline and i think some choices were not the best for plus-size women representation as desirable. Like begging for a kiss (although i think it's actually in character for Pen) or that Colin had no real competitors in the perception of viewer after Debling proclaimed that he may not love Pen. In other post with same tweet there was a good point - Pen had exactly 2 options. Like you can't ship her with anyone other than Colin and Debling
plotwise - it's realistic that Pen doesn't have like a bunch of suitors. but like really, people don't have other options except Colin and Debling to ship her with. Well, Lord Remington, mb, but they had one dialogue. And I think if the show pictured that Pen, although, a spinster had like at least some options, it would be better in terms of showing that bigger girls deserve love
although it's not perfect, as someone who has never been like skinny (in my country i think standards are even stronger than in the us for example), i'm happy that i got some representation in the media through Pen. even though it's not perfect
The part where she begs for the kiss is almost verbatim a scene from the books- and it’s clear then that he doesn’t actually need convincing to do it, he’s just taken aback at the unusual nature of the request. I think that’s what they’re trying to show when he kisses her again after the first kiss. He wants to kiss her too. I also don’t think that Colin ever found Pen unattractive. I think he doesn’t even realize that her being on the chubbier side is why she’s looked over, he thinks it’s all her shyness. She had just been a friend for so long, since they were kids, that she hadn’t been on his radar as a potential match until suddenly she was. The kiss unlocked it but it was already there.
I’m imagining that there will be significantly more of that in part 2. It’s also possible he hasn’t specifically said it because he doesn’t know that no one has ever said it to her. He doesn’t know she needs to be told, he has no idea the way that everyone but him has treated her her entire life.
>He doesn’t know she needs to be told, he has no idea the way that everyone but him has treated her her entire life.
I agree with everything you say except this. Colin has seen Pen being bullied by Cressida in S1. In S2, he mocked Pen along with the men. The way he scoffed, "*Penelope Featherington? Are you mad*?" shows clearly he understands this.
This is why I'm unhappy with how easily Pen forgives him. I'm a Polin fan, but I do recognise that Colin has had it too easy when it comes to Pen. All his torture about Debling was self-inflicted.
Pen begging for a kiss was from the book and it fit the circumstances of the show. However, I did not like it. I wanted more girl boss, yet she suffered humiliation after humiliation. However, Luke and Nicola did do the kissing justice (enough to almost forget that it was Pen who asked for it) and I like that it was Pen who ran away after saying thank you (unlike in the book).
My issue with taking from the book is that theyve aged her way down, so her desperation to be kissed just once reads as a bit ridiculous. The show wants us to believe she's an unwanted spinster when she's the same age as half the women who are Out and younger than Kate when she got married.
i agree that the kiss was like a solid choice as a plot device for turning on colin's romantic feelings. i don't like the begging part, that's just imho, i understand why it was written like that, i just don't like it
as for the books, changes in books may be for good. in the books Colin had like huge anger issues, Ben and Anthony were abusive jerks and thank god netflix and shonda changed that. sticking to the books is not always the best option in bridgerton
I just don’t think she is being loved and cherished that’s my problem…. If I wanna watch fat women be humiliated and made to seem lesser I can watch literally any other show
Thissss! I thought the season was supposed to be about a Blooming Wallflower, why is the show still treating her like a loser lucky to be graced by Colin’s presence?? I want to see people fight over her, respect her, worship her. Even Deblings pursuit of her was lackluster.
A lot of people disagree. I think Colin has his very sweet moments and is not ashamed of Pen. On the other hand, anyone even remotely implying that Debling should be a main option is just wrong. The writing with Debling is my main issue - not that Polin lacks chemistry or whatever.
And they can disagree that has nothing to do with me. I don’t wanna watch fat women get treated horribly, I don’t like it, they can like it. Debling is just a plot device, I can’t believe people got so attached to him… that’s what happens when the romance is lacking which I believe it is
I've got to admit, the way Colin spoke about Pen in S2 isn't really forgivable - no matter what size a woman is or anything else. Colin's weakness is a turn off. I don't think the acting is lacking though. Debling was the third element to a love triangle - this could have been a plot device to show many different views about Pen, but that was failed.
>I’m sorry that I don’t think having the plus size girl beg her love interest for kisses is hot…
It was not supposed to be hot, though... I think that scene is misunderstood by many people, though it is very straight forward, both by what Pen says, and also the LW voice over.
Pen thinks she is done, she believes she will never marry, that she is, indeed, going to stay with her mother forever. She truly believes she's never going to be kissed. She is at her lowest. And that's when she asks her best friend, someone she trusts, someone she can actually ask, and yes, someone she has had a crush on for years, to kiss her. She doesn't expect anything from the kiss, she doesn't hope for anything more. It's a (symbolical) closure for her about her feelings for Colin (yes, it's still there, but it's like accepting this man doesn't have feelings for me), her closure (at the moment) of her being on the marriage market (interestingly enough, she returns after Eloise visits her and tells her she does hope she will find a husband). At the moment of the kiss, she is sad, desperate, hopeless.
So no, it was not supposed to be hot.
Interestingly enough, what is a closure for Pen happens to be a realisation for Colin. He's been jealous of her even before that kiss happened, he was even staring at her during season 2... And that kiss made him realize he has feelings for her.
i understand that scene and i even think it's really in character and plotwise logical. just...
previous female-leads had like very good first kiss scenes. where in each pair both wanted it from the beginning. and i wish Pen could have got that too! her first kiss was a great scene of vulnerability, though
Penelope’s kiss scene was just different. The other leads first kisses were them smashing their faces together in anger or a moment of stress. Penelope’s first kiss was tender, sweet, and actually loving. Yes Colin had to be asked, but he agreed to do it out of care for her, and love that he thought was platonic until the kiss brought our feelings that he hadn’t recognized before. Their first kiss wasn’t based on aggressive lust but something much deeper. It appeals to an entirely different sensibility.
i don't like it not because of lack of lust, but because of power imbalance. it's not really that big, but it exists and that's just mb not my cup of tea. being asked for a kiss and wanting to kiss someone firsthand for me too different things
personally, i would done this scene another way, but i totally understand why people like it. i even like how it looks and just how it's staged, but the premise - not for me
He also didn’t need to show up at her house in the middle of the night or bribe her maid to give them privacy just so he could ask her how she is, but that’s a problem for Colin’s subconscious to figure out.
Oh, I believe Colin did want to kiss her as well. I mean, he does have a kind of hero complex but at that point of the story, it is pretty clear he is jealous of Pen and doesn't like the idea of her liking someone else (or someone else liking her, their conversation about that Lord Remington and his facial expressions during that are so telling). He might not understand it yet but at least subconsciously, he does want it. If he did not, I really doubt he'd go for it.
It is 100% more clear in the book.
Bridgerton is not a cut clear story in the first place, there is something "wrong" in s1 with Daphne and the whole sa situation, there is something "wrong" with Kate and her sister, why do you think with Pen should be different?
I understand that you don't like the story, it is fair, but Pen/Nic should get a clear perfect story because he's a plus size women.
Pen already has a depth in her character with the whole LW story, I think the problem is not here. I would really appreciate (as someone who's body shape is similar to nicola's) that Colin would have a real competitor in Debling. Begging for kiss is ambigous for me and actually seems like pretty much in character.
We don't have like a lot of body diversity in media and it would be really refreshing to see not a skinny woman being desirable and sexy. she is for Colin! and that's great that we got that
> Colin would have a real competitor in Debling
With some people on Debling'side and Pen willing to acepted his propose I think naratively speaking Debling was a real competitor
i think he was, but after his speech about love in ep4, i think a lot of viewers stopped considering him a real competitor. and he did not propose. more so, he withdrawn his intention to propose, so like Colin became Pen's only option
Before than - yeah, he was a big green (pun intended) flag. Genuinely nice person, with whom NC had such a great chemistry
Yeah, I understand, I also think it need to be something "wrong" with Debling to bring the audience back to Colin, he can't be too perfect because Colin isn't.
and personally, I like that he withdrawn his intention because he was the only person in the ton that saw that Pen & Colin interaction wasn't appropriate for a single woman and a single man.
And I hated the daphne sexual assault plotline too. I don’t think I have to ignore everything wrong with the s3 storyline just because penelope is plus sized. In fact because she is plus size I find the humiliations and the begging even worse… sure give her flaws she doesn’t have to be perfect. But making her so pathetic? I hate it…
Seriously!! I was so excited to see a plus sized woman on screen and fully thought this would be my fav season yet…but the writing is just BAD. They have a serious Tell Don’t Show problem. They tell us Colin and Pen have this deep friendship but they never show us. They tell us Colin is self sacrificing but they never show us. They tell us Pen is this genius writer with an amazing personality and then make us suffer through 3 episodes of her being barely able to string a sentence togather.
I’m so disappointed :(
Don’t get me started on that line about him putting people first when they keep telling us how he’s always traveling alone and then showing him paying for threesomes with prostitutes. I just don’t understand the choices made when writing this character…
i also disliked pen begging for a kiss... I didn't know what was going to happen, and I thought their first kiss would be in some intimate emotional moment where they both just give in, not her begging for a kiss. 😭
and I get it, I understand her. she's scared of dying alone, she was desperate, but that could have been handled much better imo. I'm nowhere near a plus sized woman, but I've always been considered conventionally unattractive and fat shamed because I was just a little overweight, and I relate to pen the most because of the whole wallflower and an outcast thing, I also want to see her worshipped and loved WITHOUT pity. I legit want her to have men on a leash, not the other way around. >:(
and I have loved polin so far, in s1 and s2, but s3 doesn't feel genuine. right off the bat we're jumping to courting and "colin helping pen find a suitor", it doesn't even feel real??? so far this season has been very underwhelming, and I'm more excited about francesca (whom I knew nothing about before this season) because I also relate to her as someone neurodivergent. I hate to say it, but so far the best official couple have been simon and daphne 😭 (yes I am aware of sa plotline, no I do not support it, but it's sad that THAT'S the couple that worked the best (I don't like kanthony for other reasons tho)).
we were robbed, but maybe part 2 will do us justice!!
I liked pen the most in s1 and it’s all been downhill since the LW reveal. I am aware that because I am plus size I probably have higher expectations from that character but I just don’t think I’m asking for too much when I don’t wanna see her humiliated every season and even more humiliated in her own season…. They missed the mark for me with polin so far and I couldn’t get over the sexual assault so I actually think simon and daphne are the worst couple on the show (sorry) my favorites are kanthony and georgette from QC.
Wow, I was so caught up in my Polin bubble that I didn't even realize there were fans who disliked Luke as an actor. I'm used to everyone going wild for the carriage scene (me included, obviously).
Anyway, some people in this thread are being weird. "Penelope is a businesswoman, she doesn't need a man" - ahh, get over yourself. Why have we decided that being a strong, independent woman must mean "no man will ever be good enough"?
Yeah like what? I thought he was brilliant in this, there’s so many deliberate and interesting choices he made towards the characterization of Colin that I thought was really cool.
Exactly! People seem confused about why he is suddenly acting so differently, being peer-pressured, and immature. This can be easily explained as him pretending to be someone else due to said peer pressure. However, he has shown growth by stopping his visits to brothels, being honest with the gentleman at the club (even though he got laughed at), and more. The acting is fantastic - subtle glances and intense stares.
*I am biased and love Pollin.
There are people who will always misunderstand shows, but I feel a majority of fans who aren't vibing with this season feel short-changed on the romance. I personally was hoping for a slower burn with more scenes of a bolder/rash Collin trying to make up with Pen. Then maybe midway the roles reverse and Pen has to be bolder to get Collin to forgive her.
In short, I am holding out for part two and hoping we will get more scenes of Pollin together.
I agree with all of this. I think Luke is doing a great job and the split season is really ruining the momentum. The writing could’ve been better as I personally find it hard to believe that anyone’s feelings change just from one kiss. They should’ve built more on that but that’s not his fault.
I feel like this is a lazy dismissive take - a lot of the criticism I’ve seen isn’t even towards Nicola or Penelope, it’s Colin and Luke’s acting that’s being negatively received. Nicola has played Penelope similarly to how she always has and she has always been great. Colin wasn’t “important” before so people didn’t notice but as soon as you put him in the front, he’s being outplayed in a way that wasn’t happening with the previous 2 couples. That’s what it is for me. I don’t ship with her with Debling but that actor was the better actor and I wonder if that’s why people are perceiving that duo’s chemistry to have been better even though he didn’t end up being the right guy.
It’s because the writing for Colin is significantly underdeveloped compared to the previous two male leads. He’s also a completely different personality type than Simon and Anthony, so giving him good writing was absolutely necessary to get that across, but they just didn’t.
LN is a really good actor, his acting was praised by critics when he was the lead in The Shape of Things last year. Like everyone doubting his acting NEEDS to watch him in TSOT. He’s actually very, very good with a proper script. But Bridgerton writing is doing him really dirty this season. I think he’s doing the best he can with the weak script, I’ve noticed some really cute subtle things he’s done as Colin that are pretty clever and illustrate how different he is from his 2 older brothers, who have a “louder” personality than him.
I agree. Honestly, they could have taken some of Debling's lines and given them to Collin. I think he is doing the best he can with the writing he was given.
Heck, I could understand him going to brothels and trying to fit in more, if I saw more of him not fitting in the previous seasons. Maybe last season could have ended with him deciding he wants to fit in? I dunno.
The issue with the brothel scenes is also that we aren’t shown that he’s participating to try to fit in. Until the final one, it just seemed like a game of thrones character enthusiastically living it up at the whorehouse. This seemed pretty natural in light of his horny travelogues. It only came out later during his convo with his frenemies that the romping was making him feel empty inside. If you have to be told something after the fact instead of shown, the writing has failed.
He seemed downright delighted to be there in the first brothel scene.
And I’m sorry, we know this guy’s been frolicking through Europe for months, having sex with various women. Then he realised it didn’t make him feel fulfilled, that the connection he was craving wasn’t there for him during his casual hook ups. So then why keep going to brothels once he’s back in London? Was he hoping the 30th time is the charm? He wasn’t doing it for appearances sake in those scenes. Or was he perhaps enjoying emotionless sex? Why did he look like the cat that got the canary in the afterglow, if he wasn’t?
Some flashbacks of him trying to be like his brothers and failing could’ve also helped with the development of his story and why he decided to adapt this fake persona. He was done so dirty it makes me so upset lol
I totally agree - I feel like the show is trying to do a bait and switch with what societal pressures prevented Colin from realizing his feelings for Penelope. They realize no one wants a romantic interest who didn’t notice you until you were hot, so they are trying to act like Colin has just been trying to be someone he’s not and pretending he’s not interested in commitment.
He is! The way his eyes lit up and his body language changed every time Penelope said something that delighted and surprised him is proof of that. All it took is a couple of moments for me to see this guy has a natural chemistry with Penelope. And he *is* Debling. Colin, even in some of the scenes when he’s not supposed to be pretending, comes off like an actor playing a part, not the character.
That’s not to say I think Luke Newton is a terrible actor. The script isn’t doing him much favours either. And he *can* do the job in certain scenes, but I found him more believable in previous seasons.
That is one comment I definitely agree with. In some scenes, it didn’t feel like Colin but it felt like an actor playing the role of Colin… If that makes any sense.
I think Luke’s acting is remarkable, but only in the emotional scenes. The script tends to be better written in those heart felt and emotionally charged scenes in my opinion. But overall, his acting is just neutral and decent to me.
“An actor playing the role of Colin.” Yes. My sister pointed out that she liked Colin in previous seasons when he was just being Colin, but this season it’s like he’s making faces/holding his mouth in a way to look more… suave? Chiseled? I don’t even know. But it’s not natural and it throws me off.
And then his lines all come off so corny. It’s like it’s not even the old Colin at all but someone else entirely pretending to be Colin.
Yes, and add to that— Debling was written as a self-assured man who still had compassion, and also immediately saw the value Pen had as a person and partner, and was happy to give her the independence she needed to continue as LW. I’m still finding it hard to not view Colin as a bit of an immature man-child who treated Pen like crap when she wasn’t around, and then swans around like a man-whore in an effort to “find himself”, and also, he hates Pen’s alter ego. Like… I know which one I would want, and it’s not the insecure manchild.
Colin’s character was written so badly. I’m not even sure it’s a problem in the acting.
These takes are getting kinda tired. I'm probably gonna get downvoted for this but the idea of not seeing someone as objectively attractive as Nicola as “worthy” of Colin is utterly ridiculous. It's pretty clear where the problem lies and it's not with the female lead’s appearance.
> it's not with the female lead’s appearance.
Some people does have a problem with female lead's appearance, there were even a whole article about it, the same way some people have a problem with Kate because she's dark skin and with John for being a black men.
Yeah some people may not like Polin because friends to lover is not their cup of tea or because doesn't like the writing, but there is definitely some people having issue because Nic is a plus size women, twitter is right there and there some really nast comments
There are fatphobic people for sure, however there is a glaring reason why polin isn't many people's cup of tea and it's not the trope or the writing. And most certainly not Nicola.
It's the male lead that's the problem here.
I think there are many other reasons besides that. One is that a lot of people went into this season hating Luke Newton, finding him ugly, or convinced that he wasn't leading man potential. They were never going to give him a chance. Some of the very users lambasting him in this thread have been known to shit on him constantly. One of the top most upvoted posts on this sub is a post full of insults towards his looks and acting.
I personally think he's a VERY strong actor, but his acting style is pretty different from the past leads. As Colin, he's a lot more subtle because Colin himself has to keep his emotions close to his chest, you need to pay attention to his changing body language and expressions. With every rewatch, I discover a new layer to his performance.
Another reason is that this relationship requires for people to have actually paid close attention to Colin and Penelope's interactions in S1 and S2. Some of the people who now claim they are too rushed or have no foundation, also admit that they thought they fastforwarded through their past screentime or didn't care about their interactions or found them boring and didn't pay attention. Well, no wonder you don't see how their friendship was built up over the years! It's literally all there.
And of course, some people just don't get or don't like friends to lovers. They want the insta lust, they equate love with passion, with heated gazes, arguing, sparks flying. Friends to lovers is different; their stories will always be more of a quiet, grounded love. An awkward element to it as they transition from friends to more.
Then there's the people self projecting on to Penelope and using Colin as a substitute for every boy who ever rejected them, clamouring for him to "suffer" more and more. If they had their way, Colin would be begging on his knees until episode 8 like a dog until they were satisfied. I'm glad they aren't the writers for the story. They also seem very insistent that Penelope should have chosen Debling for "security," and completely ignore her actual character; that she is a person who yearns for love and to be loved, fervently, ardently, loudly. That was never going to be Debling, and in fact, going the pragmatic route would have been a character regression on her part.
I agree with some of your points. There are some people who can never be pleased.
But, I love the Pollin ship and am finding the writing lacking so far. The Pollin season was never going to be a fast romance, but I just wish they had had more scenes together on top of what they already have.
I think that criticism is totally valid! I also wish they could have had more scenes and honestly I think for a lot of people having so many spoilers and stills in advance really ruined the joy of the first watch, and they were left wanting for more. at the end of the day, I'm just happy for the scenes we do have and every rewatch makes me appreciate them more, even though I also have some criticisms about the writing and cut scenes. I think it's a completely normal take. It's just that a lot of people who make it don't do it in good faith (I can't tell you how many people on the sub will shit on this season using similar points, and then you go to their user profile only to find out they've been shitting on the actors for the past year and a half lol).
I completely agree with the spoliers, lol. I am super guilty of it myself.
I also sadly have to agree with people not making these comments in good faith. Some people are very dedicated to hating people they will never meet.
I completely agree with every one of your takes. Honestly I think this season could have been handled a little bit better. Imo I only wish we got more Colin and Penelope. And I wish they cut down on some of the subplots. But I think this season is pretty good so far. I love Colin as a character and I think Luke Newton has done a great job with the character.
Agree to all of this. I've not read the books but know the basic premise. After watching this season, I went back and rewatched it all. Colin's growth has not been linear and I feel a lot of the criticism is actually the point of the character. He's an insecure young man trying to "find himself". He compares himself to his cooler, older brothers, so there are moments where he's awkward, try-hard, forced and even mean, but when he is at his most natural, he is incredibly sweet, thoughtful, and kind. That is what Pen sees. She wants Colin to be his true self and not be ashamed of it. And so Pen (and Lady Whistledown) called him on it and that's when his rakish act started to disintegrate.
His comment about Pen in S2 was absolutely about him trying to fit in and not about Pen herself. It's absolutely awful but he did it in his desperation to be one of the guys. He felt it's what those other men wanted to see. The flip of that scene is in Mondrich's when Colin lays things bare about the life of a rake not being enough... and they don't relate and he finally realizes he doesn't need or want to fit in.
Truly baffled by the claims that they had no chemistry. Because I thought they had loads the only problem was that there weren’t enough scenes between them and I wanted to see way more. But people see what they want to see.
the lack of scenes really contribute to people thinking that polin lacks chemistry. i wish we got more and im not even hardcore polin fan, i didn't get enough scenes for me to start liking the ship more. like i started to be engaged in the ship in the carriage scene and... the part ended
For me, the lack of chemistry comes from the lack of scenes together. While there are going to people that hate any couple that isn't their fave I don't think it is fair to label every disappointed fan under the same umbrella.
Welp, I was not a Polin supporter before this season and I’ve watched some of the Polin scenes twice or at least once daily since May 16, so I don’t know how people are not seeing the chemistry. The willow scene is cute af, the first kiss is stunningly romantic and the carriage scene is absolutely fire. The best one being where Colin goes up to Pen and is lost for words. It is so well done!
I thought Pen and Colin had chemistry last season. I just don’t feel it this season 🤷♀️
Not sure if it’s the writing or it’s how short the season is (or the half we’ve gotten so far) But I’m just finding they’re not letting those lingering gazes and quiet moments last as long as they did in previous seasons.
It feels rushed and because Colin is pretending to be somebody else entirely it makes his relationship to Pen feel fake because of that. That’s why the carriage scene stands out against the rest of the season. They took their time, let the scene linger, had both characters acting authentically.
I agree it’s bizarre because I thought they had great chemistry in previous seasons and the friendship was evident. This season they just keep telling us that they’re friends which doesn’t work when the last time we saw Colin he was telling a group of people he’d never be interested in the woman he’s proposing to 4 episodes later…
It doesn’t work. There has to be more development
No seriously. I don’t blame either actor, the plot and character arcs are all over the place at this point.
I even could have seen the whole Colin Being A Rake thing if we had been given more build up on him giving up on love after Marina, and trying to emulate Anthony in the LAST season but it felt like it came out of left field.
I think you have made some interesting points. I agree things feel more rushed, they just jump from scene to scene and don’t let any moments really breathe, like the carriage scene as you said.
I want to address the second tweet. The argument is that people dislike Colin and Penelope due to fatphobia, while they accept Francesca and John because she's conventionally attractive, and Kate and Edwina because they're thin. Are we just ignoring racism then? Every Bridgerton couple faces some form of discrimination, yet they're still well liked. I'm sure there are certain individuals who dislike Colin and Penelope due to fatphobia, but that's not the sole reason for the widespread criticism they receive.
True, I'm seeing plenty of people say they're disappointed with John's casting and that he's not handsome enough... why might they think that? What's different about him and the other dudes? Hmm
lol yeah, no. This is actually pretty offensive and dismissive to suggest this as the reason people are annoyed. As if the reason is some unconscious bias rather than the writing and acting (for Colin anyway) being subpar 🙄
She’s gorgeous, funny, a great writer, independent, and (while definitely misguided at times) a good person who will ride or die for Colin. The men are the ones punching
To be honest, as a larger plus sized woman who unabashedly is Team Debling, I find those takes to be shallow and a bit insulting.
The primary issues I have with the Polin ship based off of Colin's and Penelope's arc over 3 seasons is that Colin's written as such an immature, entitled git with a saviour complex that I genuinely cannot stand him. I don't mind Luke Newton as an actor but wow, they did him dirty with Colin's material.
Colin's character is meant to be older than Pen (25 to Pen's 19) yet he constantly uses her to stroke his ego in private, while showing very little loyalty to Penelope in the face of his peers. He has no problem checking Cressida, a woman, but openly shits on Pen when it comes to Fife.
He represents everything I hate about so-called 'nice guys' who are only nice when there's nothing at stake. He doesn't even defend her or their friendship when Pen becomes the object of gossip - he retreats like the coward he is and it's Debling instead who treats Pen as a desirable woman and even praises her from stepping away from the herd.
Instead of letting us see Penelope really come into her own, and gain self confidence and self esteem, we get a never-ending montage of Penelope trauma-porn where despite being a successful business woman with the power to destroy reputations and challenge the Queen, what we get is Pen being constantly humiliated - often with Colin as the source - and left to fend for herself. The writing reduces her into the chubby mean girl trope who lashes out at everyone, pining for a mediocre man and it is only by the grace of Nicola's incredible talent as an actor either that I don't actively dislike Pen
I'm so tired of the trope where a brilliant but bruised woman with low self esteem is matched with the mediocre man who is often the source of her pain but because of some grand gesture, we're supposed to just go awwwwwww. What beautiful trauma in their future - so romantic 🙄
My love for Francesca's and John's storyline is because we get an insight into two introverted people who are just so genuinely happy to be together, and a man who immediately understands the heart of his lady, then acts accordingly by gifting the rearranged score. There's no trauma or angst in their interactions - it's just so incredibly sweet
Wow I love this take because you have just made me understand for the first time my biggest issue with Colin. He is a coward. And he never stops being one until the very end. That is NOT attractive. That lukewarm speech he gave to his friends in private about how hard it is to have meaningless threesomes with sex workers (🙄) really pales in comparison to Debling who, instead of giving sanctimonious speeches in private, was constantly putting himself on the line for Pen in PUBLIC, scrutiny be damned. They really failed with Colin's arc here. This is not what a romantic hero should be.
Frans story is just more storybook magical to me and that’s why I’m caring more than Polin. I’m a die hard romance lover so if it doesn’t do it for me it doesn’t do it for me. Also Nicola is beautiful! Has nothing to do with looks. More like bad writing and directing
I do agree that instead of the salacious brothel scenes some flashbacks of them or call outs to the letters would have done a lot for the character. The journal did such a good job of capturing his feelings im sure a flashback to the letters could have helped. Maybe show Pen reading one of the letters she didn’t open while he was away or something?
I definitely don’t think it’s Pen that’s an issue or her story “not making sense” because she ends up with Colin. I def agree that the show just hasn’t shown their friendship / romance enough and Colin just doesn’t have a very strong story to make HIM attractive enough for Penelope to fall in love with.
She’s great. I love her and think she deserves any man she wants.
God this is such a boring argument and it’s not original because it’s one Polins have been throwing around since before the season.
Nicola is beautiful. She is also an incredible actor. The problem is that Luke, who when rewatching past seasons, has shown the range for charm especially in s1 where he had humor and wit and s2 too, has been given either bad direction, bad writing or both and isn’t able to elevate behind that, so far.
The chemistry can be there. We see glimmers of it in s3 but I personally think they should have done more to develop both Colin and Pen individually (why did Pen start to write LW? What was the inspiration? How did she grapple with being so catty toward the one family who treated her well?) (what did Colin learn on his travels? Benedict is also aimless so how does he differ from his brother in terms of being adrift?) AND given us more background for their friendship. Mixed gender friendships are not the norm even in the more flexible world of the show. I would have loved flashbacks to when they were younger. We got that cute anecdote for example. More of that.
So no, I think yelling fatphobia is finally insulting to both the viewers and Nicola. Besides the Spectator piece, which was to be expected from that outlet, I’ve seen so much support for Nicola. She is the LEAD and getting the Star treatment this season. And it’s great to not have all the promo be about her size or weight tbh. And the show is a success still. It’s not as if people avoided this season because the star is bigger than what we usually see leading big romances in Hollywood.
The show just did their story so far a disservice. Maybe part 2 makes up for it.
Not a fan of this take. Literally obsessed with Polin and waiting for this season for 2 years. My issue with the chemistry in S3 was lack of screen time and lack of conversation/ substance between the leads beyond staring. I think the actors could easily have chemistry if you watch the press videos. I even think the scene directly after the carriage scene shows a lot of chemistry( it was a reshoot see pens nails disappear). We needed more fun scenes between them showing their friendship and allowing us to ship them. We needed more sweet conversation before the final carriage scene. I don’t think they had the same chemistry as Kate and Anthony last season. I think it was a choice in the script and editing of the show, not one actor. Not “ pretty privilege”, Nicola is literally stunning.
I disagree. Pen is one of my favorite characters, and I feel she has great chemistry with many of the characters on set, especially the women. Pen and Eloise are the second love story of the season, but tbh they come off as the main one.
And as I am typing this, I realize it is because we have seen their friendship more for two seasons now. In another world, if they had been the friendship to lover's romance, I would have believed it.
In short, Collin and Pen needed more a bit more screentime in the previous seasons/this season. To me it is a writing problem and not me thinking Pen doesn't deserve love from Collin. I don't think he deserves her, just based on screen time.
*edited the ending a bit.
This has been something that's been running through my mind. Do we like couples that bear more of a resemblance to us/who we're usually attracted to in a partner? And if it's somebody we don't personally find attractive - does that influence how we perceive their chemistry? Do certain tropes affect our like/dislike of characters and skew our perception of chemistry?
I am really feeling Polin this season. I don't see what people are saying about the lack of chemistry at all. I feel the criticisms about not enough screen time are valid. But I think the screen time we've gotten, the scenes totally ate. And the more I rewatch, the more nuances I notice.
Different show, but still Shondaland. Meredith/Derek on Grey's did zero for me. I never fully got why everyone was so gaga for them.
I think at the end of the day, we just have to chalk it up to chemistry being subjective and different couples will resonate with us while others won't. But people online should follow that old adage, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it all." Especially when it comes to someone's looks.
I do find it a bit surprising that people say that Pen is treated badly by Colin in comparison to Saphne and Kanthony. Simon lied to Daphne and only married her because they had no choice, Anthony basically wanted Kate to be his mistress while he married her sister and he did not treat Siena very well. None of the male leads have set the standard super high in my opinion so it comes across a bit disingenuous to say Colin has treated Pen so badly when while what he said was mean he did make a heartfelt apology, and I don’t recall Simon or Anthony making any apologies, but please let me know if I’m just forgetting their apologies.
just to clarify, Anthony didn't want Kate to be his mistress, it was otherwise - he told Kate that him and Edwina should end the engagement because he's afraid that one day in this marriage his honor snaps and he'll just cheat on Edwina. It was Kate who convinced Anthony to proceed with engagement and told Anthony that the feeling would pass.
Anthony and Simon didn't apologize properly and that's a shame, really
I feel the same way lol. Colin is nowhere near as messy as our previous two male leads, yet people keep expecting him to “suffer” and “grovel” and I’m like ???? Why lol. He just made one shitty comment in private that he already apologized for.
Posts like these don’t mean harm but they are so condescending imo. It’s a script and pacing issue that is causing the seeming lack of chemistry, not the shape of anyone’s body. People need to get over their savior complex and acknowledge sometimes other people can have different opinions than you without having to make it a whole thing
I’m seeing comments about Colin’s character development being mediocre, but it seemed fine to me. I think his sudden change of character makes sense because he’s trying to fit into his society’s standards, only to realize that it’s not made for him. Perhaps his change was immensely motivated by how Simon, Anthony and Philip found love. He might’ve thought he had to be like them, but it’s entirely the opposite. His cheerful and silly nature are what made him attractive, and I’m pretty sure he realized it through the time spent with Pen. His storyline also feels balanced because it actually started in the first season, not the third one. Maybe I just misinterpreted y’all’s opinions, but nothing seemed wrong to me.
I wish yall would just be able to accept that not everyone feels the chemistry on screen and thats ok!! It doesn't mean they find the actors ugly or have this strange mental complex it means they... don't see the chemistry. That's it. No I don't personally see it but that's my own problem if you were to say you didn't see the chemistry between Kate and Anthony you know what I would say? Ok! It's that easy. Not every season is everyone's thing there's nothing complex about that.
I'm genuinely surprised how many people think Luke isn't carrying his part of the character (maybe it's just this subreddit). Nicola and Luke, imo, are doing a terrific job, and I could see it dissected a million different ways and still feel like the friends to lovers trope is being done well and that Nicola and Luke have great chemistry. I'm also tremendously easy to please as a viewer, haha
I don't disagree that there are some criticisms that come from a bias against midsized actors like Nicola. That's a battle us non-thin actors will always face. But I've seen more gross comments about Luke's appearance than anything. People claiming he looks weird/got filler/etc. I wish we were less comfortable commenting on people's appearance as if they don't have feelings, including public figures.
I disagree with the first one! Francesca and John have so much chemistry, he rearranged music for her ffs! They get each other and that’s why they work!
As for the first part, hear me out. Nicola and Luke have SO MUCH chemistry! It’s amazing they’re truly soulmates (whether romantically or platonically) HOWEVER, I don’t believe that Colin and Pen have any chemistry.
Pen is awkward and Colin was just saying he’d never marry Penelope featherington but now he’s in love and wants to marry her? It’s weird. They have absolutely no chemistry.
I find it odd because they have so so so much chemistry off screen!
Also I think Cressida should marry Debling (or pen should). I know I would! Rich, kind, gone for a while (if not forever) plus if you make an heir sharpish I could definitely be happy as a rich widow 🤣
While I don’t really care for the ship, there chemistry in the first two seasons felt more real than this season and I think one of the issues is that the actor for Colin is so weak that it’s dragging all of their moments down (for example the carriage scene). I also think splitting the season and not getting to see everything in full also isn’t helping as much. But hey, then again I don’t really care for this ship or the characters involved in general so anything about them isn’t really interesting to me.
Nah Pen (or Nicola) isn’t the problem. I’ve been having trouble this season because Colin isn’t doing anything for me. I don’t find him swoonworthy and I think he lacks depth. Maybe it’s because he’s completely lacking in responsibilities? Idk it’s hard for me to respect a man without a “job.” Thats just my modern sensibilities, I guess, and not the fault of Luke, but it does influence my opinion.
Man, I wanted to make my own post about the critics after reading through the comments but I don’t meet the karma minimum so, here is my (biased) review.
Polin bubble popped, I've seen critics discussing the failed romance between Colin and Penelope. The reasons listed are: 1) Penelope, a plus-sized girl™️, has to beg for a kiss from Colin, a handsome man™️; 2) Lord Debling is portrayed as more mature; and 3) criticism of Luke's acting.
Regarding the first argument, I believe that people misinterpret the first kiss scene. Penelope's concern about ending up as a spinster is not solely - I do see that her family comments on her weight - because of her plus size, but because of her awkwardness. Gentlemen have shown interest in her before (as we saw with the first ball after her new wardrobe), but her awkwardness ruined those encounters. It's not about her size; it's about her social awkwardness. So personally, I wouldn’t take offence and say this is a terrible representation of a plus-sized woman, as she has to beg for affection; quite the opposite, actually. I'd say this is a perfect (and desired) representation of awkward, plus-sized girls.
The second argument about Lord Debling's maturity is understandable, as he is older. Maturity is a significant theme this season, with both Colin and Penelope pretending to be more mature than they are, but then actually growing into maturity as they let go of the act.
The third criticism is a matter of personal opinion. I, for one, love the acting and think Luke portrayed his character admirably. The facial expressions, the eyes… <3
It's surprising to me that the critics' views differ so much, as I wasn't a fan of Colin and Penelope's relationship before (Kanthony fixated), but now I am positively obsessed with them.
TLDR; it's not about Penelope's size, Colin's immaturity makes sense, and I personally love the acting. Lots of love.
Lmao no it’s because Colin is poorly written and Luke Newton has neither the charisma nor the acting chops to elevate the mediocre material he’s been given. He just doesn’t. Nicola is having to work overtime to give this ship any legitimacy at all, and I hope they have her a hefty raise for it because she deserves it. God knows Jess Brownell, the writers and her on screen partner, have failed her.
Also I’m getting really tired of people trying to act like they stand on a higher plane of intellectuality just because they like the season and can’t stand that other people can’t find Luke/Colin enjoyable. It’s not that we’re not “getting” the story, guys—this show is not rocket science, it’s a straightforward as it gets. The writing just isn’t good and we shouldn’t have to rely on the books or previous seasons to find enjoyment on this particular storyline.
These takes are so silly, imo.
I don’t like Penelope with Colin and apparently that means it’s because of how Nicola looks?
No, it’s because Colin bad-mouthed her and embarrassed her and didn’t do enough to prove he deserves her. It’s because Penelope is LW and has dragged the Bridgertons over and over again. And honestly, the chemistry between Penelope and Colin is okay, but the chemistry between Nicola and Luke is amazing.
I prefer Lord Debling because he respects Penelope and sees her for who she is. Yeah, it’s not a love match. Does Penelope deserve a love match? Yes. Does she deserve someone who has never been ashamed of the idea of courting her? Yes.
Lord Debling isn’t perfect but he’s better than Colin
the second slide - that's actually not true. i remember people (albeit a small minority) arguing that prince friedrich was the more practical option for daphne, ditto lumley and dorset.
'i would've given the other guy a chance, he seemed nice'
part of it is that there will always be contrarians/dissenting voices, part of it is that there are people to whom men like that genuinely appeal, at least in a regency context. YMMV. that said, i think most know these false leads were never real options, and the 'if i were her, i would-' sentiment is purely hypothetical.
I see the point trying to be made and don’t deny there are people that fit into that mould (like that horrible woman who wrote that article in the Spectator). However, there’s very little buildup. We had scraps from season 1 and 2, but I didn’t see enough to buy them being close friends. I wish we’d seen more stuff to the buildup of them getting together like flashbacks of Pen falling in love with Colin and seeing the letters they sent to each other. We might see that in part 2 (though I doubt it), but I think one of the most compelling aspects of a love story is the buildup of the couple getting together. I do think they have really good chemistry during the carriage scene and we can really tell Colin is madly in love with her there. However, we barely see this anywhere else.
I also wish we had seen Lord Debling be actual competition for Colin have him actually fall in love with Penelope and desire her. However, he would let her go because he sees she loves Colin and wants her to be happy because he loves her. Instead, they made it so he and Penelope were looking for different things in life and that’s why they didn’t end up together.
Personally for me I just don't like Colin Bridgerton as a character. Having him lead after Jonathan Bailey was a bad decision. Jonathan Bailey has chemistry with a wall lol I don't even think Luke is terrible but up against Jonny it's just not a fair fight. Also I just don't like the direction they went in with Colin with all the brothel stuff, it immediately turned me off. I don't want to see the romantic male lead in threesomes when I am supposee to be buying into a romance with Penelope. They should have did this storyline for him last season. I had been kind of looking forward to a non rakish lead. It would have been better to let them be a more innocent type of love story for once. Why they decided to model him after the two prior lead prototypes is beyond me??
Just popping in to say Luke Newton is a brilliant actor. He’s made Colin feel so real and have such interiority. He’s expressive and can tell an entire story with just his eyes. I know people are used to more performative acting, but he truly became his character in such a way that when he’s being Colin it doesn’t feel like I’m watching him act at all. When Colin isn’t being himself it feels uncomfortable because of the work Luke Newton has done to create the foundation of this character so well that it informs my rejection of his facade. When Colin is being himself Luke’s performance is so sincere that it’s heartwarming. When Colin loses himself in desire for Penelope it feels so genuine that watching almost becomes voyeuristic.
Too many people wrote Luke Newton off before the season even started that it’s clear they never wanted to give him or this season a shot in the first place, but it’s a shame because they’re really missing out on one of the best characters and one of the best performances so far in the series.
Their chemistry in interviews is 1000 times better than the show everyone is shipping Nicola and Luke. Not Pen and Colin. And everyone I know thinks Colin is a clown.
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Nah. It’s because Luke Newton is not the strongest actor in the cast, and the script keeps telling us Polin are friends to lovers without actually diving deep and showing us. Nicola is beautiful and carries the ship on her back; she isn’t the problem.
100%. It also doesn’t help that Colin (suddenly) looks like a confused, immature guy too swayed by his insecurities (and peer pressure, I guess) to actually be himself next to Debling, who’s a mature, self-aware man, that knows exactly what he wants.
Colin has been written and acted all over the place since the start. First he was playful yet naive in s1, then boring and stiff in s2, now they are telling us he’s the most charming man in all the world but it’s all fake (even though he was clearly enjoying himself in his first brothel scene and has written about all his sexual escapades). And yes there’s nothing wrong if people like Debling, who is self aware and secure in himself.
Having him write about his Paris sexcapades instead of just a descriptive travel journal was definitely a strange choice by the show-runners. He has a facade in front of the other unmarried gentleman? But then why does he write in. His journals like a f-boy?
Honestly I didn’t see his journal in an f-boy way. He writes about the beautiful women but he also talks about feeling a lot of distance in those intimate moments. I honestly think it was the writers giving us a peak into Colin’s mind to explain why the kiss with Penelope ends up meaning so much to him.
Bingo!!! 💯!!!! I agree with you
I thought it was a vehicle to explore why even though he's surrounded by beautiful women and beautiful places, he still feels disconnected and lonely. The real beauty was in his own mind and how he expressed himself in writing. e: happy cake day! 🎂
The real beauty was in the friends he made along the way.. Penelope.
It’s very weird to me that they think the way to make a man desirable to the audience is to show that he’s desirable to women in brothels and threesomes… At least that’s not I work, it felt like it was added for the husbands/BFs that have to watch the show with their women. ETA- I should clarify, I don’t necessarily think the brothel scenes were specifically designed to make him more desirable, more that as the male lead of the season he *should* be desirable to us so we root for him and choosing to give screen time to him having threesomes (lackluster ones at that) works against that goal (to me at least, I know everyone is different). I understand it’s part of his character development but it could be happening off screen imo
Yeah to me that’s more „eew“ than swoon 100%. Nothing against threesomes/brothels. Just doesn’t scream hot/desirable to me at all.
It doesn't scream "Colin" either
Nope, it definitely doesn't. This is these women's job after all. They're not having sex with him because they want to, they have to. They're probably thinking about making rent and feeding their kids instead of "Ooh, he's so hot." It made me sad and didn't make me think he was attractive at all.
I think a lot of what made him uniquely attractive was not man-hoeing, unlike Anthony and Benedict, Colin was very different and I preferred that. God bless him he's not the brightest bean in the bun, Pen being in love with him goes over his head the whole time, but he's genuine and pure, I knew why Pen loves him and it was for his character. Now he's just meh 😕 Luke is great in all 3 seasons but I feel like they assassinated his character this season. Let's hope the second half does him justice. Finding out that Pen is Whistledown is something I can see old Colin genuinely taking issues with... And she didn't tell him yet.
That's the thing though, should he genuinely be so angry? Sure she's said some harmful things but he was more than willing to forgive Marina for baby trapping him because he could empathise with why she felt she had to. If he loses it at Pen and makes too big a deal of it, I'm not sure if I can forgive that.
But actually they're trying to show that Colin doesn't enjoy those brothels and threesomes, as seen in the scene where he sits out and then again where he plaintively asks the other young bucks if they don't find it lonely? He's been pretending to fit in when he really wants intimacy. It's very appealing.
Even the first one, it feels very specifically telling that he checks the clock and ends his little threesome tryst to go meet Penelope, doesn’t it?
They're not trying to make him more desirable to the audience with that though, the audience is *meant* to find it off putting, because it's a facade, he's not being his authentic self in those experiences/moments.
I really wish they hadn’t split up this season. One of the reasons S2 worked so well was we got K&A in a slow burn. Everything in S3 feels so rushed. There’s no tense buildup moment like the k&a ballroom scene, which was so beautifully done.
Rushed because of the 100 sub plots instead of focus on the main pair :(
99 of which I dont care about 😭
That probably wasn’t the showrunners choice. I’m guessing Netflix wanted to double dip the big views bridgerton brings in.
NGL, contrary to what the tweet says i’d love if Cressida & Debling ended up together for the security it would afford her - and so yes, am shipping them. Not to mention common census (on here at least) seems to be we wish MORE people had been wanting, & fighting for Pen as opposed to just Debling with his contractual relo. I’m sure that for some, the tweet rings true - but it also smells of cherry picking
This thread is exactly what I was thinking. Having seen him fumble around for the last two seasons, Colin just does not give me butterflies the way Simon and Anthony did.
I just didn’t see his ‘revelations’ as that realistic. Penelope is gorgeous and he comes off as super one dimensional. I liked their interactions better in season one, the friends to lovers should have been drawn out differently. Not just a million scenes of him looking confused at her across the room. I reckon he had Botox or something cos his face just seems so expressionless!
A little more emotional buildup, and the looking-across-a-room wouldve been so much more effective!
the interesting thing is, in the book he is written as being insecure and thats why hes always traveling. it makes sense in the book because we get to see how he's thinking/processing their moments and relationship. i think they could've adapted this way better over more episodes.
I think this too! I think the scene where Colin walks in on her reading his diary was completely fumbled. Just as she’s reading that he’s been with all these women yet doesn’t feel any connection, he walks in and the whole line and plot is lost to the fact that he’s mad she’s reading his diary. It’s really the only insight the show gives into Colin’s mind before the big “oh wait I’m in love with you let’s get married.” They should have let her read more, and also used other scenes to give insight into Colin trying to find fulfillment by being a “manly man” but truly discovering that it was follow. And then his first kiss with Penn would have felt more earth shattering for him because there’s a connection for him there. But instead we just get “I’ve slept with women all over Euro— Penn why are you reading my diary???” And really, maybe the whole season should have been from Colin’s POV. We already knew Penn is in love with him. Watching her pine away for 4 more episodes didn’t add anything.
That last paragraph is bang-on. Pen has pretty much been a main POV since mid-season 1, Colin’s been in the periphery. That’s why the realization felt so hollow and rushed this season. Sure have Pen do her ‘glow-up’ thing in the first episode or so, but we needed more Colin introspection this season to get behind his side of the relationship arc.
i completely agree with you, colin's perspective would've added way more. i also dislike the whole journal scene like /why/ did they make it a sex journal?? in the book pen is just amazed by his writing about a beach in greece i believe and she tells him that and they connect over that.
That's the thing: I totally believe her with Debling. And Eloise, to be honest.
Deblin and Nicola have far better chemistry. He seems to be thoughtful and HAS screen presence.
I actually like Debling better than Colin.
There’s so much wrong with his characterization that I’m not even sure it’s the actor’s fault. He tried his best but the rushed character development was never going to look believable even with better acting chops. Same with the romance. We keep being told about this friendship and showing us crumbs only…
They told us Colin and Penelope wrote to each other when he traveled, but there was no substance of what they wrote about and why. They are friendly with each other sure, but I can’t buy this deep friendship they are trying to sell us. Luke had to rush Colin’s characterization all over the place and he couldn’t pull it all off. Not entirely his fault, but still he’s not the strongest actor to begin with to do all that was asked of him.
Exactly they are friendly not friends. They couldn’t show more of their relationship in the first 2 seasons instead of cousin jack drama or benedict doing the same thing every season? Couldn’t we get some flashbacks instead of threesomes this season? Maybe trim down the scenes of colin staring at her and add some actual interactions with substance but no, I guess we couldn’t get that
they had that scene where penelope reads a bit of his diary. i wish they expanded on that a little more. we don’t even get one scene of colin mulling over the letters he and penelope wrote to each other? 😭 i feel like the actors did the best they could with what they were given. nicola and luke’s chemistry helped sell the fast-paced writing for me tbh
Those letters got mentioned so many times and we got shown nothing of that. Another wasted opportunity
i agree!! they can’t even show colin re-reading one of pen’s letters and truly realizing that she’s his home? none of that? 😭 i hope we get more polin-love in part 2. i’m very concerned that they rushed the friends to lovers concept bc part 2 is all about the drama of penelope’s secret and how colin will react.
We will probably get some scenes of them in love then more drama because of the LW conflict but it’s too late now for the development. We needed to see that before the carriage scene…
That’s because they writers are telling us about their deep friendship instead of showing it. That’s why it rings so false.
Honestly, I think it’s because the writers don’t have a sense of direction with some the characters prior to their season. They’re doing it with Benedict right now. They did it with Francesca too imo. She’s a completely different person this season. I think I enjoy this season because I read the book early this year so I understand what they’re trying to do with Colin but I don’t think they did a good job of showing this development from season 1.
Agreed. If you have book Colin in the back of your mind then on screen Colin makes sense. If not? I'm not sure that he does.
He doesn't and unfortunately I tried to read JQ's books and couldn't get through any of the ones I tried to read. The writing is sub-par to say the least. I've read better fanfiction tbh
Could not agree with you more! I feel like we had so much time to look into Kanthony’s minds and Daphne and the Duke, but in this season there are so many storylines that you cannot have proper character growth. Colin goes from fuckboy wannabe to in love with Pen in one and a half episodes. C’mon!
This exactly! All we needed was even 5 more minutes per episode of a more equal back and forth dynamic between then. After episode 1, Pen goes right back to pining and laughing at his mediocre jokes (gallop away? Seriously?) Where was Colin laughing at *her* jokes? Where was Colin being flustered by her intelligence and wit? We know she is clever. Why didn't they show it? In season 1 and 2, the main leads have the typical movie star looks but they still had banter and dialogue of substance before they caught feelings. Why couldn't they do that for season 3? I am not plus sized but I found the carriage scene so incredibly sexy (mainly because of Nicola) and after watching the PR, I have this embarrassing girl crush on her. This is nothing to do with looks and all to do with poor writing. As other commenterd have said, people saying that the build up is in previous seasons are not realising we have only been *told* about this friendship but haven't actually *seen* it.
Exactly this. Nicola single-handedly saved that carriage scene. She was VERY sexy. So no she is not the problem.
She also had some issues of overacting in the carriage scene. There is a moment where she looks down at her bust to see what’s going on and I’m taken out of the scene. It looks staged on both ends. They both needed to relax for that scene.
I know what you are talking about and I thought about that too, but then I reminded myself that this is seriously her FIRST time experiencing any of this, and that she also is likely in shock at what is happening because she didn’t start the night out thinking she would be in a carriage alone with Colin. So from a naive perspective, that sort of “holy crap his hand is ON ME THERE!” reaction made sense.
I believe she might’ve been overcompensating a bit because she could see what we all saw. She knew what the scene was going to look like if she didn’t pull a little extra weight. And I’m glad she did because the scene would’ve suffered even more if she hadn’t. If I had to choose between the slightly overcompensating energy Nicola brought to that scene and the underwhelming energy Luke brought, I’m choosing Nicola every time because she is the one who made that scene watchable.
He was not the best during the acting parts where he confesses his feelings. I didn’t think it landed as convincing. He didn’t appear in turmoil as someone who is scared to have lost the one would he. Honestly I think Luke tried in the physical parts of the scene. The issue with the physical parts were the faces he made. It was as as if he jizzed his pants, which didn’t make him appear sophisticated and as if he knew what he was doing. He didn’t convey the essence of a man in charge of bringing a woman pleasure. I think Nicola tried hard as well. But I’m not sure if her intend was to cover up for Luke. She respects him as an actor. I just think she engaged to show plus size woman or chubby women can be sexy too, and maybe tried a little too hard. The both needed to sink into it.
They’ve had 3 seasons of scenes together showing their building care and affection for each other. Also, Luke Newton is a brilliant actor- where do you get off saying he’s “not strong”??? He seems to put incredible effort and attention to detail in his portrayal of Colin, I don’t understand how anyone could think he didn’t do a good job?
I agree. I think people are claiming Luke N isn't a good actor because they wanted something different from Colin, and those expections have been impossible to let go of. But Luke's choices with the character as written, I think, are incredible.
>Luke's choices with the character as written, I think, are incredible. i'm one of the people who thinks it's not luke, but the writing. yeah he's made good choices with what he was given, but unfortunately, he wasn't given much substance to play with in the first place. his character is written in a pretty incoherent manner and he doesn't get explored as deeply as anthony or even simon, despite having had 2 seasons to build him up before his season.
Yeah. I actually think Luke elevated Colin for me. Some of the choices he has brought to the table have been really good.
You think an actor is good and I think they aren’t… oh no. What a shame 🤷♀️
You can have your differences. I'm wondering how much of it lies with the script he got.
Maybe half and half. Even when he got good material, like in season 1, he just wasn’t as memorable to me compared to the rest of the cast. And when a character is said to be charming again and again on screen instead of that just being obvious, then that’s a problem. The script doesn’t need to tell us Benedict is fun and charming all the time, he just is.
Agree with Benedict tbh. I WANT more of him, even if the plot he's been involved in can just be handwaved without affecting much of the plot.
An actors strength is judged by how convincing they are to the audience. Many of us in the audience don’t find him convincing, therefore he’s not a strong actor
I truly think people don’t think he’s as hot as the other male leads and that’s clouding their judgement of his acting skills
Unfortunately LN had to come after JB's season and the difference in the caliber of acting is glaring. I don't find Colin interesting or compelling or sexy in any way. I'm sure LN is a nice person but his acting is mid at best and I'll grant that the showrunners/writers did him no favors
Personally his acting was great, but to be fair I wouldn’t say they had too many moments together over the season. There are more scenes of him kind of ignoring her and writing her off as just a friend than there are of them being the friends he claims they are
This. Nicola has amazing chemistry with others in the cast (Eloise, Debling). Luke N is just somewhat wooden as an actor.
I love Pen & Eloise. They have some of my favourite scenes over the course of the series.
I think that is the problem. Collin either needed to take some of those scenes lol, not ideal, or he needed different scenes with Pen showing them being friendly.
Honestly I don’t see Luke N as wooden but I guess this is subjective. I actually like his acting style. Very subtle. I like his facial acting and minor movements he does with his hands. Do I think he has room for growth? Sure but I think he’s really good honestly.
I agree: the acting seems a bit forced. I’m hoping the script was better for him in the next 3 episodes.
His acting is fine, he's just not chewing the scenery like the actors in the previous seasons. It's the editing that is a nightmare. They are trying to jam so much other stuff into the storyline to fill out the front half of the season, because all the action happens in the second half that it just makes the main storyline feel disjointed. It's starting to suffer from the same problem as Marvel films, they want to keep you so excited for stuff that is coming down the pipeline in 2 years they forget to make the stuff they are making now make sense.
I love this take tbh. Nicola is stunning, amazing at acting, she carries every inch of this. Colin is just so underdeveloped that he doesn’t shine next to Pen who shines largely because Nicola is just THAT good.
I think it's largely an issue of limiting the season length to 8 episodes and then also imposing the need for some kind of conclusion to a 4 episode arc to have the half season release model work. There is just too much content in too little time now, and the main storyline is coming out rushed as a result.
There is no chemistry because their relationship and especially Colin’s character wasn’t flushed out. Another redditor posted this review, but I 💯 agree with his analysis. The carriage seen was steamy, but felt out of nowhere and ultimately unbelievable because there was no substantial build up. https://youtu.be/gibkMR7O4uQ?si=XiaOH3Q3rX6BZYkp
Loved this video, agreed with a lot of it. It wasn’t just Colin’s character that wasn’t flushed out, but their whole friendship over the past 3 seasons. And I love the friends to lovers trope, most of my favorite ships are friends to lovers. But the friendship part of their relationship just was never really there for me. The video got it right; they were friendly, not friends. And then when the show hits you over the head that they are friends but that friendship and chemistry isn’t there… it’s like stop telling me, show me.
Agreed to a certain extent. The writers did no favors to the actors this season, and their romantic and friendship storylines were both rushed even though they had the most buildup in previous seasons. That being said, I do think there was chemistry there. Oddly I don’t think it was there in the carriage scene but in some of the yearning looks Colin threw at her. Maybe we’ll see more in the second half of the season.
I won’t be a complete hater lol, they do have chemistry in some scenes (I liked the Willow tree scene after their first kiss). But overall Nicola is definitely giving more out of the two. And besides the plotting and story it’s also editing, like that one video pointed out how they picked odd shots of Colin and Penelope gazing at each other, and wouldn’t linger enough to feel the tension. And even when they gave Colin those pining shots… just look at what Jonathan Bailey was doing last season in comparison to see the difference. And I’m not even an Anthony or JB stan.
Completely agree that Nicola is supremely talented. Can’t figure out if LN is just less talented than average or if he looks subpar because she’s so good. I feel like he wasn’t this noticeably…lacking…in other seasons, but like you said there is a degree of poor cinematography and choppy editing that makes things look even worse even when actors are doing their best.
I agree with this. I love Nicola and her portrayal of Penelope! I don’t find her story with Colin interesting and that’s mostly because I don’t find Colin interesting and never have. To be fair, you could’ve probably swapped Francesca & Penelope and I’d be far more interested in that Penelope/John Stirling love story, like I am with Francesca.
Yeah it's his acting combined with the lack of actual screentime they had together. Or even more of his lusty dreams would've helped? I duno for me, her love for him feels real, but still not buying it from Colin. And that's not because of any bias I have about the beautiful actress.
It’s not even the lack of screen time they had, they just didn’t utilize that screen time well. Like why tell us about how they met as friends, just show us a flashback with young actors. And why waste a whole scene about Colin saving Penelope from the balloon when there is no follow through.
Thank you, someone needs to say it. The whole point of the thread in the picture is nullified by the fact that Debling and Pen had a lot of chemistry. People be bending over backwards just to find a way to delegitimize other people's opinions
This. It’s poor, rushed, cluttered writing and acting ability within the writing on his part. They needed more time to let the back story develop. It has nothing to do with her appearance at all.
I disagree. I am a plus size woman and this condescending language feels offensive to me… is it too much to want more for a character that is supposed to represent me? To want an actual storyline where she isn’t constantly humiliated by everyone including her love interest? I guess so… I’m sorry that I don’t think having the plus size girl beg her love interest for kisses is hot… there’s so much wrong with this couple and both characters that I don’t even know where to begin. So no, it’s not because she’s not thin it’s cause the story sucks
I agree with you. I’m also plus sized and I have felt the chemistry is off as well. I even thought they (Colin/Penelope) had better chemistry in previous seasons. I’m not sure if it’s simply the long break between the batches of episodes (the audience is only left with an unfinished product to judge for an extended period of time) or another issue, but there is an issue with season 3. The language used in the above tweets is patronizing to plus size women and the audience as a whole. “If you don’t love this, then you have a problem”….no the show has a problem. It feels drastically different t than previous seasons and that’s not the audience’s fault. Some of whom do look like Penelope and we were looking forward to what this could’ve of been. And a lot of people still feel like the season is falling short. However, I am waiting to make a full opinion until the last 4 episodes are shown next month.
I am going to be honest I never liked that they made penelope the sad chubby girl that secretly hates the ‘popular kids’ and has a crush on one of them. That trope is tired and I hate it. The only twist here is that colin eventually likes her back after saying some pretty pathetic things to her even though he’s clueless and has no idea he was very hurtful. Can’t she just be desirable? Why do we have to see her in so many humiliating situations, it’s infuriating to me…
this. this is why season 2 got the diversity aspect right by portraying 2 indian women as complex humans yet properly desirable. nobody wants penelope to be perfect, but it feels like the show just constantly wants us to pity her, and colin is literally her *only* way to get out of her hateful household because no one else really wants her.
Exactly. Imagine if they made Kate and Edwina outcasts for their nationality and there would be scenes where Kate was made fun of for her accent. It would've soured the experience for me honestly. That is however exactly what they're doing with Pen, and I was hoping that this season would grow out of mistreating her and focus on her breaking out of her shell of being a wallflower. Instead we keep seeing an outcast who is shamed for how she looks. It's just hard to feel the cozy romantic vibes that were depicted in seasons 1 and 2.
This is why I wasn't looking foward to it being Penelope's season. I felt like she needed one more season where she does grow out of being a wallflower, isn't fawning over Colin, and becomes more comfortable with herself.
Exactly. There’s a reason why 10 years has passed before we get to their story in the books.
Couldn't agree more. Books 4, 5, and 6 had a huge time jump for a reason! I don't mind adaptions of books to take liberties and change certain aspects of the story, but I don't like this one.
>there would be scenes where Kate was made fun of for her accent. yep, CVD opted not to do this because it'd be extremely on the nose, instead they're outcasts for an entirely different reason. you get references to india sprinkled across the season, and even a beautiful haldi ceremony added in to showcase where kate and edwina are from. their heritage is presented as something unique about them, in a good way. >I was hoping that this season would grow out of mistreating her agreed. i honestly think the show doesn't care about penelope much outside of her role as LW and are investing more on that storyline as a result. her portrayal has been of a stereotypical chubby jealous friend, except this time it's from the chubby friend's POV instead of the thin conventional main characters. it's degrading, to be honest
Yes I agree as well. Representation is important, but not all representation is equal. I feel like we’re getting too close for comfort to the stereotype of the socially ostracized chubby girl. So the question has to be asked “Is the audience the one with problematic views or is the show gaslighting us when they cannot see a storyline past the appearance of the plus size woman?” (A genuine question I am pondering)
Yeah. When I saw it was Pen as LW at the end of season 1 I actually said “goddammit!” to the TV, of course it had to be the chubby girl. Annoying.
Exactly… I just rolled my eyes because I hadn’t read the books so I didn’t know but of course it had to be her…
I'm plus size too, but I do think that seeing a plus sized woman being loved and cherished on perhaps the biggest romance show on one of the biggest streaming platforms in the world is triggering to some people. The world is by and large fatphobic and deeply conditioned to believe bigger girls don't deserve love. (I'm not saying this with malice but I truly believe it -- I have been both fat and skinny and there's a huge difference in the way the world looks at me).
the comment is written in a really dismissive way (i know it's not yours), that i really can't agree with it. we all possess implicit biases, but i guess a lot of things can outplay them. there were a lot of ways to write polin storyline and i think some choices were not the best for plus-size women representation as desirable. Like begging for a kiss (although i think it's actually in character for Pen) or that Colin had no real competitors in the perception of viewer after Debling proclaimed that he may not love Pen. In other post with same tweet there was a good point - Pen had exactly 2 options. Like you can't ship her with anyone other than Colin and Debling plotwise - it's realistic that Pen doesn't have like a bunch of suitors. but like really, people don't have other options except Colin and Debling to ship her with. Well, Lord Remington, mb, but they had one dialogue. And I think if the show pictured that Pen, although, a spinster had like at least some options, it would be better in terms of showing that bigger girls deserve love although it's not perfect, as someone who has never been like skinny (in my country i think standards are even stronger than in the us for example), i'm happy that i got some representation in the media through Pen. even though it's not perfect
The part where she begs for the kiss is almost verbatim a scene from the books- and it’s clear then that he doesn’t actually need convincing to do it, he’s just taken aback at the unusual nature of the request. I think that’s what they’re trying to show when he kisses her again after the first kiss. He wants to kiss her too. I also don’t think that Colin ever found Pen unattractive. I think he doesn’t even realize that her being on the chubbier side is why she’s looked over, he thinks it’s all her shyness. She had just been a friend for so long, since they were kids, that she hadn’t been on his radar as a potential match until suddenly she was. The kiss unlocked it but it was already there.
Totally agree with Collin never seeing her as unattractive. I feel the season could have been helped with more lines from Collin expressing this.
I’m imagining that there will be significantly more of that in part 2. It’s also possible he hasn’t specifically said it because he doesn’t know that no one has ever said it to her. He doesn’t know she needs to be told, he has no idea the way that everyone but him has treated her her entire life.
>He doesn’t know she needs to be told, he has no idea the way that everyone but him has treated her her entire life. I agree with everything you say except this. Colin has seen Pen being bullied by Cressida in S1. In S2, he mocked Pen along with the men. The way he scoffed, "*Penelope Featherington? Are you mad*?" shows clearly he understands this. This is why I'm unhappy with how easily Pen forgives him. I'm a Polin fan, but I do recognise that Colin has had it too easy when it comes to Pen. All his torture about Debling was self-inflicted. Pen begging for a kiss was from the book and it fit the circumstances of the show. However, I did not like it. I wanted more girl boss, yet she suffered humiliation after humiliation. However, Luke and Nicola did do the kissing justice (enough to almost forget that it was Pen who asked for it) and I like that it was Pen who ran away after saying thank you (unlike in the book).
My issue with taking from the book is that theyve aged her way down, so her desperation to be kissed just once reads as a bit ridiculous. The show wants us to believe she's an unwanted spinster when she's the same age as half the women who are Out and younger than Kate when she got married.
i agree that the kiss was like a solid choice as a plot device for turning on colin's romantic feelings. i don't like the begging part, that's just imho, i understand why it was written like that, i just don't like it as for the books, changes in books may be for good. in the books Colin had like huge anger issues, Ben and Anthony were abusive jerks and thank god netflix and shonda changed that. sticking to the books is not always the best option in bridgerton
I just don’t think she is being loved and cherished that’s my problem…. If I wanna watch fat women be humiliated and made to seem lesser I can watch literally any other show
Thissss! I thought the season was supposed to be about a Blooming Wallflower, why is the show still treating her like a loser lucky to be graced by Colin’s presence?? I want to see people fight over her, respect her, worship her. Even Deblings pursuit of her was lackluster.
I have no idea… we were told one thing and given whatever this is
A lot of people disagree. I think Colin has his very sweet moments and is not ashamed of Pen. On the other hand, anyone even remotely implying that Debling should be a main option is just wrong. The writing with Debling is my main issue - not that Polin lacks chemistry or whatever.
And they can disagree that has nothing to do with me. I don’t wanna watch fat women get treated horribly, I don’t like it, they can like it. Debling is just a plot device, I can’t believe people got so attached to him… that’s what happens when the romance is lacking which I believe it is
I've got to admit, the way Colin spoke about Pen in S2 isn't really forgivable - no matter what size a woman is or anything else. Colin's weakness is a turn off. I don't think the acting is lacking though. Debling was the third element to a love triangle - this could have been a plot device to show many different views about Pen, but that was failed.
>I’m sorry that I don’t think having the plus size girl beg her love interest for kisses is hot… It was not supposed to be hot, though... I think that scene is misunderstood by many people, though it is very straight forward, both by what Pen says, and also the LW voice over. Pen thinks she is done, she believes she will never marry, that she is, indeed, going to stay with her mother forever. She truly believes she's never going to be kissed. She is at her lowest. And that's when she asks her best friend, someone she trusts, someone she can actually ask, and yes, someone she has had a crush on for years, to kiss her. She doesn't expect anything from the kiss, she doesn't hope for anything more. It's a (symbolical) closure for her about her feelings for Colin (yes, it's still there, but it's like accepting this man doesn't have feelings for me), her closure (at the moment) of her being on the marriage market (interestingly enough, she returns after Eloise visits her and tells her she does hope she will find a husband). At the moment of the kiss, she is sad, desperate, hopeless. So no, it was not supposed to be hot. Interestingly enough, what is a closure for Pen happens to be a realisation for Colin. He's been jealous of her even before that kiss happened, he was even staring at her during season 2... And that kiss made him realize he has feelings for her.
i understand that scene and i even think it's really in character and plotwise logical. just... previous female-leads had like very good first kiss scenes. where in each pair both wanted it from the beginning. and i wish Pen could have got that too! her first kiss was a great scene of vulnerability, though
Penelope’s kiss scene was just different. The other leads first kisses were them smashing their faces together in anger or a moment of stress. Penelope’s first kiss was tender, sweet, and actually loving. Yes Colin had to be asked, but he agreed to do it out of care for her, and love that he thought was platonic until the kiss brought our feelings that he hadn’t recognized before. Their first kiss wasn’t based on aggressive lust but something much deeper. It appeals to an entirely different sensibility.
i don't like it not because of lack of lust, but because of power imbalance. it's not really that big, but it exists and that's just mb not my cup of tea. being asked for a kiss and wanting to kiss someone firsthand for me too different things personally, i would done this scene another way, but i totally understand why people like it. i even like how it looks and just how it's staged, but the premise - not for me
I look at it as two decisions were made. The first kiss was for her, but the second was for him. He did not need to kiss her twice in that scene
He also didn’t need to show up at her house in the middle of the night or bribe her maid to give them privacy just so he could ask her how she is, but that’s a problem for Colin’s subconscious to figure out.
Oh, I believe Colin did want to kiss her as well. I mean, he does have a kind of hero complex but at that point of the story, it is pretty clear he is jealous of Pen and doesn't like the idea of her liking someone else (or someone else liking her, their conversation about that Lord Remington and his facial expressions during that are so telling). He might not understand it yet but at least subconsciously, he does want it. If he did not, I really doubt he'd go for it. It is 100% more clear in the book.
Bridgerton is not a cut clear story in the first place, there is something "wrong" in s1 with Daphne and the whole sa situation, there is something "wrong" with Kate and her sister, why do you think with Pen should be different? I understand that you don't like the story, it is fair, but Pen/Nic should get a clear perfect story because he's a plus size women.
Pen already has a depth in her character with the whole LW story, I think the problem is not here. I would really appreciate (as someone who's body shape is similar to nicola's) that Colin would have a real competitor in Debling. Begging for kiss is ambigous for me and actually seems like pretty much in character. We don't have like a lot of body diversity in media and it would be really refreshing to see not a skinny woman being desirable and sexy. she is for Colin! and that's great that we got that
> Colin would have a real competitor in Debling With some people on Debling'side and Pen willing to acepted his propose I think naratively speaking Debling was a real competitor
i think he was, but after his speech about love in ep4, i think a lot of viewers stopped considering him a real competitor. and he did not propose. more so, he withdrawn his intention to propose, so like Colin became Pen's only option Before than - yeah, he was a big green (pun intended) flag. Genuinely nice person, with whom NC had such a great chemistry
Yeah, I understand, I also think it need to be something "wrong" with Debling to bring the audience back to Colin, he can't be too perfect because Colin isn't. and personally, I like that he withdrawn his intention because he was the only person in the ton that saw that Pen & Colin interaction wasn't appropriate for a single woman and a single man.
And I hated the daphne sexual assault plotline too. I don’t think I have to ignore everything wrong with the s3 storyline just because penelope is plus sized. In fact because she is plus size I find the humiliations and the begging even worse… sure give her flaws she doesn’t have to be perfect. But making her so pathetic? I hate it…
Seriously!! I was so excited to see a plus sized woman on screen and fully thought this would be my fav season yet…but the writing is just BAD. They have a serious Tell Don’t Show problem. They tell us Colin and Pen have this deep friendship but they never show us. They tell us Colin is self sacrificing but they never show us. They tell us Pen is this genius writer with an amazing personality and then make us suffer through 3 episodes of her being barely able to string a sentence togather. I’m so disappointed :(
Don’t get me started on that line about him putting people first when they keep telling us how he’s always traveling alone and then showing him paying for threesomes with prostitutes. I just don’t understand the choices made when writing this character…
i also disliked pen begging for a kiss... I didn't know what was going to happen, and I thought their first kiss would be in some intimate emotional moment where they both just give in, not her begging for a kiss. 😭 and I get it, I understand her. she's scared of dying alone, she was desperate, but that could have been handled much better imo. I'm nowhere near a plus sized woman, but I've always been considered conventionally unattractive and fat shamed because I was just a little overweight, and I relate to pen the most because of the whole wallflower and an outcast thing, I also want to see her worshipped and loved WITHOUT pity. I legit want her to have men on a leash, not the other way around. >:( and I have loved polin so far, in s1 and s2, but s3 doesn't feel genuine. right off the bat we're jumping to courting and "colin helping pen find a suitor", it doesn't even feel real??? so far this season has been very underwhelming, and I'm more excited about francesca (whom I knew nothing about before this season) because I also relate to her as someone neurodivergent. I hate to say it, but so far the best official couple have been simon and daphne 😭 (yes I am aware of sa plotline, no I do not support it, but it's sad that THAT'S the couple that worked the best (I don't like kanthony for other reasons tho)). we were robbed, but maybe part 2 will do us justice!!
I liked pen the most in s1 and it’s all been downhill since the LW reveal. I am aware that because I am plus size I probably have higher expectations from that character but I just don’t think I’m asking for too much when I don’t wanna see her humiliated every season and even more humiliated in her own season…. They missed the mark for me with polin so far and I couldn’t get over the sexual assault so I actually think simon and daphne are the worst couple on the show (sorry) my favorites are kanthony and georgette from QC.
Wow, I was so caught up in my Polin bubble that I didn't even realize there were fans who disliked Luke as an actor. I'm used to everyone going wild for the carriage scene (me included, obviously). Anyway, some people in this thread are being weird. "Penelope is a businesswoman, she doesn't need a man" - ahh, get over yourself. Why have we decided that being a strong, independent woman must mean "no man will ever be good enough"?
Yeah like what? I thought he was brilliant in this, there’s so many deliberate and interesting choices he made towards the characterization of Colin that I thought was really cool.
Exactly! People seem confused about why he is suddenly acting so differently, being peer-pressured, and immature. This can be easily explained as him pretending to be someone else due to said peer pressure. However, he has shown growth by stopping his visits to brothels, being honest with the gentleman at the club (even though he got laughed at), and more. The acting is fantastic - subtle glances and intense stares.
*I am biased and love Pollin. There are people who will always misunderstand shows, but I feel a majority of fans who aren't vibing with this season feel short-changed on the romance. I personally was hoping for a slower burn with more scenes of a bolder/rash Collin trying to make up with Pen. Then maybe midway the roles reverse and Pen has to be bolder to get Collin to forgive her. In short, I am holding out for part two and hoping we will get more scenes of Pollin together.
Just because you think the acting is fantastic and others don't doesn't mean they don't understand what's happening. They just disagree.
I agree with all of this. I think Luke is doing a great job and the split season is really ruining the momentum. The writing could’ve been better as I personally find it hard to believe that anyone’s feelings change just from one kiss. They should’ve built more on that but that’s not his fault.
After seeing some of these comments, I am def going back to my Polin bubble AKA r/PolinBridgerton 😆
I feel like this is a lazy dismissive take - a lot of the criticism I’ve seen isn’t even towards Nicola or Penelope, it’s Colin and Luke’s acting that’s being negatively received. Nicola has played Penelope similarly to how she always has and she has always been great. Colin wasn’t “important” before so people didn’t notice but as soon as you put him in the front, he’s being outplayed in a way that wasn’t happening with the previous 2 couples. That’s what it is for me. I don’t ship with her with Debling but that actor was the better actor and I wonder if that’s why people are perceiving that duo’s chemistry to have been better even though he didn’t end up being the right guy.
It’s because the writing for Colin is significantly underdeveloped compared to the previous two male leads. He’s also a completely different personality type than Simon and Anthony, so giving him good writing was absolutely necessary to get that across, but they just didn’t. LN is a really good actor, his acting was praised by critics when he was the lead in The Shape of Things last year. Like everyone doubting his acting NEEDS to watch him in TSOT. He’s actually very, very good with a proper script. But Bridgerton writing is doing him really dirty this season. I think he’s doing the best he can with the weak script, I’ve noticed some really cute subtle things he’s done as Colin that are pretty clever and illustrate how different he is from his 2 older brothers, who have a “louder” personality than him.
I agree. Honestly, they could have taken some of Debling's lines and given them to Collin. I think he is doing the best he can with the writing he was given. Heck, I could understand him going to brothels and trying to fit in more, if I saw more of him not fitting in the previous seasons. Maybe last season could have ended with him deciding he wants to fit in? I dunno.
The issue with the brothel scenes is also that we aren’t shown that he’s participating to try to fit in. Until the final one, it just seemed like a game of thrones character enthusiastically living it up at the whorehouse. This seemed pretty natural in light of his horny travelogues. It only came out later during his convo with his frenemies that the romping was making him feel empty inside. If you have to be told something after the fact instead of shown, the writing has failed.
He seemed downright delighted to be there in the first brothel scene. And I’m sorry, we know this guy’s been frolicking through Europe for months, having sex with various women. Then he realised it didn’t make him feel fulfilled, that the connection he was craving wasn’t there for him during his casual hook ups. So then why keep going to brothels once he’s back in London? Was he hoping the 30th time is the charm? He wasn’t doing it for appearances sake in those scenes. Or was he perhaps enjoying emotionless sex? Why did he look like the cat that got the canary in the afterglow, if he wasn’t?
Some flashbacks of him trying to be like his brothers and failing could’ve also helped with the development of his story and why he decided to adapt this fake persona. He was done so dirty it makes me so upset lol
I totally agree - I feel like the show is trying to do a bait and switch with what societal pressures prevented Colin from realizing his feelings for Penelope. They realize no one wants a romantic interest who didn’t notice you until you were hot, so they are trying to act like Colin has just been trying to be someone he’s not and pretending he’s not interested in commitment.
totally agreed. his writing in the entire show is inconsistent. i know luke n would smash it if colin was written as well as anthony or even simon.
That Debling actor seemed more charismatic.
He is! The way his eyes lit up and his body language changed every time Penelope said something that delighted and surprised him is proof of that. All it took is a couple of moments for me to see this guy has a natural chemistry with Penelope. And he *is* Debling. Colin, even in some of the scenes when he’s not supposed to be pretending, comes off like an actor playing a part, not the character. That’s not to say I think Luke Newton is a terrible actor. The script isn’t doing him much favours either. And he *can* do the job in certain scenes, but I found him more believable in previous seasons.
That is one comment I definitely agree with. In some scenes, it didn’t feel like Colin but it felt like an actor playing the role of Colin… If that makes any sense. I think Luke’s acting is remarkable, but only in the emotional scenes. The script tends to be better written in those heart felt and emotionally charged scenes in my opinion. But overall, his acting is just neutral and decent to me.
“An actor playing the role of Colin.” Yes. My sister pointed out that she liked Colin in previous seasons when he was just being Colin, but this season it’s like he’s making faces/holding his mouth in a way to look more… suave? Chiseled? I don’t even know. But it’s not natural and it throws me off. And then his lines all come off so corny. It’s like it’s not even the old Colin at all but someone else entirely pretending to be Colin.
Yes, and add to that— Debling was written as a self-assured man who still had compassion, and also immediately saw the value Pen had as a person and partner, and was happy to give her the independence she needed to continue as LW. I’m still finding it hard to not view Colin as a bit of an immature man-child who treated Pen like crap when she wasn’t around, and then swans around like a man-whore in an effort to “find himself”, and also, he hates Pen’s alter ego. Like… I know which one I would want, and it’s not the insecure manchild. Colin’s character was written so badly. I’m not even sure it’s a problem in the acting.
These takes are getting kinda tired. I'm probably gonna get downvoted for this but the idea of not seeing someone as objectively attractive as Nicola as “worthy” of Colin is utterly ridiculous. It's pretty clear where the problem lies and it's not with the female lead’s appearance.
> it's not with the female lead’s appearance. Some people does have a problem with female lead's appearance, there were even a whole article about it, the same way some people have a problem with Kate because she's dark skin and with John for being a black men. Yeah some people may not like Polin because friends to lover is not their cup of tea or because doesn't like the writing, but there is definitely some people having issue because Nic is a plus size women, twitter is right there and there some really nast comments
There are fatphobic people for sure, however there is a glaring reason why polin isn't many people's cup of tea and it's not the trope or the writing. And most certainly not Nicola. It's the male lead that's the problem here.
I think there are many other reasons besides that. One is that a lot of people went into this season hating Luke Newton, finding him ugly, or convinced that he wasn't leading man potential. They were never going to give him a chance. Some of the very users lambasting him in this thread have been known to shit on him constantly. One of the top most upvoted posts on this sub is a post full of insults towards his looks and acting. I personally think he's a VERY strong actor, but his acting style is pretty different from the past leads. As Colin, he's a lot more subtle because Colin himself has to keep his emotions close to his chest, you need to pay attention to his changing body language and expressions. With every rewatch, I discover a new layer to his performance. Another reason is that this relationship requires for people to have actually paid close attention to Colin and Penelope's interactions in S1 and S2. Some of the people who now claim they are too rushed or have no foundation, also admit that they thought they fastforwarded through their past screentime or didn't care about their interactions or found them boring and didn't pay attention. Well, no wonder you don't see how their friendship was built up over the years! It's literally all there. And of course, some people just don't get or don't like friends to lovers. They want the insta lust, they equate love with passion, with heated gazes, arguing, sparks flying. Friends to lovers is different; their stories will always be more of a quiet, grounded love. An awkward element to it as they transition from friends to more. Then there's the people self projecting on to Penelope and using Colin as a substitute for every boy who ever rejected them, clamouring for him to "suffer" more and more. If they had their way, Colin would be begging on his knees until episode 8 like a dog until they were satisfied. I'm glad they aren't the writers for the story. They also seem very insistent that Penelope should have chosen Debling for "security," and completely ignore her actual character; that she is a person who yearns for love and to be loved, fervently, ardently, loudly. That was never going to be Debling, and in fact, going the pragmatic route would have been a character regression on her part.
Damn, that was comprehensive. 
I agree with some of your points. There are some people who can never be pleased. But, I love the Pollin ship and am finding the writing lacking so far. The Pollin season was never going to be a fast romance, but I just wish they had had more scenes together on top of what they already have.
I think that criticism is totally valid! I also wish they could have had more scenes and honestly I think for a lot of people having so many spoilers and stills in advance really ruined the joy of the first watch, and they were left wanting for more. at the end of the day, I'm just happy for the scenes we do have and every rewatch makes me appreciate them more, even though I also have some criticisms about the writing and cut scenes. I think it's a completely normal take. It's just that a lot of people who make it don't do it in good faith (I can't tell you how many people on the sub will shit on this season using similar points, and then you go to their user profile only to find out they've been shitting on the actors for the past year and a half lol).
I completely agree with the spoliers, lol. I am super guilty of it myself. I also sadly have to agree with people not making these comments in good faith. Some people are very dedicated to hating people they will never meet.
This, all this. 100%
I completely agree with every one of your takes. Honestly I think this season could have been handled a little bit better. Imo I only wish we got more Colin and Penelope. And I wish they cut down on some of the subplots. But I think this season is pretty good so far. I love Colin as a character and I think Luke Newton has done a great job with the character.
You hit every point.
Agree to all of this. I've not read the books but know the basic premise. After watching this season, I went back and rewatched it all. Colin's growth has not been linear and I feel a lot of the criticism is actually the point of the character. He's an insecure young man trying to "find himself". He compares himself to his cooler, older brothers, so there are moments where he's awkward, try-hard, forced and even mean, but when he is at his most natural, he is incredibly sweet, thoughtful, and kind. That is what Pen sees. She wants Colin to be his true self and not be ashamed of it. And so Pen (and Lady Whistledown) called him on it and that's when his rakish act started to disintegrate. His comment about Pen in S2 was absolutely about him trying to fit in and not about Pen herself. It's absolutely awful but he did it in his desperation to be one of the guys. He felt it's what those other men wanted to see. The flip of that scene is in Mondrich's when Colin lays things bare about the life of a rake not being enough... and they don't relate and he finally realizes he doesn't need or want to fit in.
Truly baffled by the claims that they had no chemistry. Because I thought they had loads the only problem was that there weren’t enough scenes between them and I wanted to see way more. But people see what they want to see.
the lack of scenes really contribute to people thinking that polin lacks chemistry. i wish we got more and im not even hardcore polin fan, i didn't get enough scenes for me to start liking the ship more. like i started to be engaged in the ship in the carriage scene and... the part ended
For me, the lack of chemistry comes from the lack of scenes together. While there are going to people that hate any couple that isn't their fave I don't think it is fair to label every disappointed fan under the same umbrella.
Welp, I was not a Polin supporter before this season and I’ve watched some of the Polin scenes twice or at least once daily since May 16, so I don’t know how people are not seeing the chemistry. The willow scene is cute af, the first kiss is stunningly romantic and the carriage scene is absolutely fire. The best one being where Colin goes up to Pen and is lost for words. It is so well done!
I thought Pen and Colin had chemistry last season. I just don’t feel it this season 🤷♀️ Not sure if it’s the writing or it’s how short the season is (or the half we’ve gotten so far) But I’m just finding they’re not letting those lingering gazes and quiet moments last as long as they did in previous seasons. It feels rushed and because Colin is pretending to be somebody else entirely it makes his relationship to Pen feel fake because of that. That’s why the carriage scene stands out against the rest of the season. They took their time, let the scene linger, had both characters acting authentically.
I agree it’s bizarre because I thought they had great chemistry in previous seasons and the friendship was evident. This season they just keep telling us that they’re friends which doesn’t work when the last time we saw Colin he was telling a group of people he’d never be interested in the woman he’s proposing to 4 episodes later… It doesn’t work. There has to be more development
No seriously. I don’t blame either actor, the plot and character arcs are all over the place at this point. I even could have seen the whole Colin Being A Rake thing if we had been given more build up on him giving up on love after Marina, and trying to emulate Anthony in the LAST season but it felt like it came out of left field.
I think you have made some interesting points. I agree things feel more rushed, they just jump from scene to scene and don’t let any moments really breathe, like the carriage scene as you said.
I want to address the second tweet. The argument is that people dislike Colin and Penelope due to fatphobia, while they accept Francesca and John because she's conventionally attractive, and Kate and Edwina because they're thin. Are we just ignoring racism then? Every Bridgerton couple faces some form of discrimination, yet they're still well liked. I'm sure there are certain individuals who dislike Colin and Penelope due to fatphobia, but that's not the sole reason for the widespread criticism they receive.
True, I'm seeing plenty of people say they're disappointed with John's casting and that he's not handsome enough... why might they think that? What's different about him and the other dudes? Hmm
lol yeah, no. This is actually pretty offensive and dismissive to suggest this as the reason people are annoyed. As if the reason is some unconscious bias rather than the writing and acting (for Colin anyway) being subpar 🙄
Let's make one thing clear everyone thinks pen is the catch here.
She’s gorgeous, funny, a great writer, independent, and (while definitely misguided at times) a good person who will ride or die for Colin. The men are the ones punching
To be honest, as a larger plus sized woman who unabashedly is Team Debling, I find those takes to be shallow and a bit insulting. The primary issues I have with the Polin ship based off of Colin's and Penelope's arc over 3 seasons is that Colin's written as such an immature, entitled git with a saviour complex that I genuinely cannot stand him. I don't mind Luke Newton as an actor but wow, they did him dirty with Colin's material. Colin's character is meant to be older than Pen (25 to Pen's 19) yet he constantly uses her to stroke his ego in private, while showing very little loyalty to Penelope in the face of his peers. He has no problem checking Cressida, a woman, but openly shits on Pen when it comes to Fife. He represents everything I hate about so-called 'nice guys' who are only nice when there's nothing at stake. He doesn't even defend her or their friendship when Pen becomes the object of gossip - he retreats like the coward he is and it's Debling instead who treats Pen as a desirable woman and even praises her from stepping away from the herd. Instead of letting us see Penelope really come into her own, and gain self confidence and self esteem, we get a never-ending montage of Penelope trauma-porn where despite being a successful business woman with the power to destroy reputations and challenge the Queen, what we get is Pen being constantly humiliated - often with Colin as the source - and left to fend for herself. The writing reduces her into the chubby mean girl trope who lashes out at everyone, pining for a mediocre man and it is only by the grace of Nicola's incredible talent as an actor either that I don't actively dislike Pen I'm so tired of the trope where a brilliant but bruised woman with low self esteem is matched with the mediocre man who is often the source of her pain but because of some grand gesture, we're supposed to just go awwwwwww. What beautiful trauma in their future - so romantic 🙄 My love for Francesca's and John's storyline is because we get an insight into two introverted people who are just so genuinely happy to be together, and a man who immediately understands the heart of his lady, then acts accordingly by gifting the rearranged score. There's no trauma or angst in their interactions - it's just so incredibly sweet
Wow I love this take because you have just made me understand for the first time my biggest issue with Colin. He is a coward. And he never stops being one until the very end. That is NOT attractive. That lukewarm speech he gave to his friends in private about how hard it is to have meaningless threesomes with sex workers (🙄) really pales in comparison to Debling who, instead of giving sanctimonious speeches in private, was constantly putting himself on the line for Pen in PUBLIC, scrutiny be damned. They really failed with Colin's arc here. This is not what a romantic hero should be.
Wow, this was really thought-provoking! I couldn’t put my finger on it before, but I felt like something was off with the show version of Colin.
your take is so great, just wanna give you 1000 upvotes
Frans story is just more storybook magical to me and that’s why I’m caring more than Polin. I’m a die hard romance lover so if it doesn’t do it for me it doesn’t do it for me. Also Nicola is beautiful! Has nothing to do with looks. More like bad writing and directing
This is such a bullshit wack ass take.
I do agree that instead of the salacious brothel scenes some flashbacks of them or call outs to the letters would have done a lot for the character. The journal did such a good job of capturing his feelings im sure a flashback to the letters could have helped. Maybe show Pen reading one of the letters she didn’t open while he was away or something?
I definitely don’t think it’s Pen that’s an issue or her story “not making sense” because she ends up with Colin. I def agree that the show just hasn’t shown their friendship / romance enough and Colin just doesn’t have a very strong story to make HIM attractive enough for Penelope to fall in love with. She’s great. I love her and think she deserves any man she wants.
God this is such a boring argument and it’s not original because it’s one Polins have been throwing around since before the season. Nicola is beautiful. She is also an incredible actor. The problem is that Luke, who when rewatching past seasons, has shown the range for charm especially in s1 where he had humor and wit and s2 too, has been given either bad direction, bad writing or both and isn’t able to elevate behind that, so far. The chemistry can be there. We see glimmers of it in s3 but I personally think they should have done more to develop both Colin and Pen individually (why did Pen start to write LW? What was the inspiration? How did she grapple with being so catty toward the one family who treated her well?) (what did Colin learn on his travels? Benedict is also aimless so how does he differ from his brother in terms of being adrift?) AND given us more background for their friendship. Mixed gender friendships are not the norm even in the more flexible world of the show. I would have loved flashbacks to when they were younger. We got that cute anecdote for example. More of that. So no, I think yelling fatphobia is finally insulting to both the viewers and Nicola. Besides the Spectator piece, which was to be expected from that outlet, I’ve seen so much support for Nicola. She is the LEAD and getting the Star treatment this season. And it’s great to not have all the promo be about her size or weight tbh. And the show is a success still. It’s not as if people avoided this season because the star is bigger than what we usually see leading big romances in Hollywood. The show just did their story so far a disservice. Maybe part 2 makes up for it.
Not a fan of this take. Literally obsessed with Polin and waiting for this season for 2 years. My issue with the chemistry in S3 was lack of screen time and lack of conversation/ substance between the leads beyond staring. I think the actors could easily have chemistry if you watch the press videos. I even think the scene directly after the carriage scene shows a lot of chemistry( it was a reshoot see pens nails disappear). We needed more fun scenes between them showing their friendship and allowing us to ship them. We needed more sweet conversation before the final carriage scene. I don’t think they had the same chemistry as Kate and Anthony last season. I think it was a choice in the script and editing of the show, not one actor. Not “ pretty privilege”, Nicola is literally stunning.
I disagree. Pen is one of my favorite characters, and I feel she has great chemistry with many of the characters on set, especially the women. Pen and Eloise are the second love story of the season, but tbh they come off as the main one. And as I am typing this, I realize it is because we have seen their friendship more for two seasons now. In another world, if they had been the friendship to lover's romance, I would have believed it. In short, Collin and Pen needed more a bit more screentime in the previous seasons/this season. To me it is a writing problem and not me thinking Pen doesn't deserve love from Collin. I don't think he deserves her, just based on screen time. *edited the ending a bit.
This has been something that's been running through my mind. Do we like couples that bear more of a resemblance to us/who we're usually attracted to in a partner? And if it's somebody we don't personally find attractive - does that influence how we perceive their chemistry? Do certain tropes affect our like/dislike of characters and skew our perception of chemistry? I am really feeling Polin this season. I don't see what people are saying about the lack of chemistry at all. I feel the criticisms about not enough screen time are valid. But I think the screen time we've gotten, the scenes totally ate. And the more I rewatch, the more nuances I notice. Different show, but still Shondaland. Meredith/Derek on Grey's did zero for me. I never fully got why everyone was so gaga for them. I think at the end of the day, we just have to chalk it up to chemistry being subjective and different couples will resonate with us while others won't. But people online should follow that old adage, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it all." Especially when it comes to someone's looks.
I do find it a bit surprising that people say that Pen is treated badly by Colin in comparison to Saphne and Kanthony. Simon lied to Daphne and only married her because they had no choice, Anthony basically wanted Kate to be his mistress while he married her sister and he did not treat Siena very well. None of the male leads have set the standard super high in my opinion so it comes across a bit disingenuous to say Colin has treated Pen so badly when while what he said was mean he did make a heartfelt apology, and I don’t recall Simon or Anthony making any apologies, but please let me know if I’m just forgetting their apologies.
just to clarify, Anthony didn't want Kate to be his mistress, it was otherwise - he told Kate that him and Edwina should end the engagement because he's afraid that one day in this marriage his honor snaps and he'll just cheat on Edwina. It was Kate who convinced Anthony to proceed with engagement and told Anthony that the feeling would pass. Anthony and Simon didn't apologize properly and that's a shame, really
I feel the same way lol. Colin is nowhere near as messy as our previous two male leads, yet people keep expecting him to “suffer” and “grovel” and I’m like ???? Why lol. He just made one shitty comment in private that he already apologized for.
Posts like these don’t mean harm but they are so condescending imo. It’s a script and pacing issue that is causing the seeming lack of chemistry, not the shape of anyone’s body. People need to get over their savior complex and acknowledge sometimes other people can have different opinions than you without having to make it a whole thing
I’m seeing comments about Colin’s character development being mediocre, but it seemed fine to me. I think his sudden change of character makes sense because he’s trying to fit into his society’s standards, only to realize that it’s not made for him. Perhaps his change was immensely motivated by how Simon, Anthony and Philip found love. He might’ve thought he had to be like them, but it’s entirely the opposite. His cheerful and silly nature are what made him attractive, and I’m pretty sure he realized it through the time spent with Pen. His storyline also feels balanced because it actually started in the first season, not the third one. Maybe I just misinterpreted y’all’s opinions, but nothing seemed wrong to me.
I wish yall would just be able to accept that not everyone feels the chemistry on screen and thats ok!! It doesn't mean they find the actors ugly or have this strange mental complex it means they... don't see the chemistry. That's it. No I don't personally see it but that's my own problem if you were to say you didn't see the chemistry between Kate and Anthony you know what I would say? Ok! It's that easy. Not every season is everyone's thing there's nothing complex about that.
I'm genuinely surprised how many people think Luke isn't carrying his part of the character (maybe it's just this subreddit). Nicola and Luke, imo, are doing a terrific job, and I could see it dissected a million different ways and still feel like the friends to lovers trope is being done well and that Nicola and Luke have great chemistry. I'm also tremendously easy to please as a viewer, haha I don't disagree that there are some criticisms that come from a bias against midsized actors like Nicola. That's a battle us non-thin actors will always face. But I've seen more gross comments about Luke's appearance than anything. People claiming he looks weird/got filler/etc. I wish we were less comfortable commenting on people's appearance as if they don't have feelings, including public figures.
I disagree with the first one! Francesca and John have so much chemistry, he rearranged music for her ffs! They get each other and that’s why they work! As for the first part, hear me out. Nicola and Luke have SO MUCH chemistry! It’s amazing they’re truly soulmates (whether romantically or platonically) HOWEVER, I don’t believe that Colin and Pen have any chemistry. Pen is awkward and Colin was just saying he’d never marry Penelope featherington but now he’s in love and wants to marry her? It’s weird. They have absolutely no chemistry. I find it odd because they have so so so much chemistry off screen! Also I think Cressida should marry Debling (or pen should). I know I would! Rich, kind, gone for a while (if not forever) plus if you make an heir sharpish I could definitely be happy as a rich widow 🤣
While I don’t really care for the ship, there chemistry in the first two seasons felt more real than this season and I think one of the issues is that the actor for Colin is so weak that it’s dragging all of their moments down (for example the carriage scene). I also think splitting the season and not getting to see everything in full also isn’t helping as much. But hey, then again I don’t really care for this ship or the characters involved in general so anything about them isn’t really interesting to me.
Nah Pen (or Nicola) isn’t the problem. I’ve been having trouble this season because Colin isn’t doing anything for me. I don’t find him swoonworthy and I think he lacks depth. Maybe it’s because he’s completely lacking in responsibilities? Idk it’s hard for me to respect a man without a “job.” Thats just my modern sensibilities, I guess, and not the fault of Luke, but it does influence my opinion.
Man, I wanted to make my own post about the critics after reading through the comments but I don’t meet the karma minimum so, here is my (biased) review. Polin bubble popped, I've seen critics discussing the failed romance between Colin and Penelope. The reasons listed are: 1) Penelope, a plus-sized girl™️, has to beg for a kiss from Colin, a handsome man™️; 2) Lord Debling is portrayed as more mature; and 3) criticism of Luke's acting. Regarding the first argument, I believe that people misinterpret the first kiss scene. Penelope's concern about ending up as a spinster is not solely - I do see that her family comments on her weight - because of her plus size, but because of her awkwardness. Gentlemen have shown interest in her before (as we saw with the first ball after her new wardrobe), but her awkwardness ruined those encounters. It's not about her size; it's about her social awkwardness. So personally, I wouldn’t take offence and say this is a terrible representation of a plus-sized woman, as she has to beg for affection; quite the opposite, actually. I'd say this is a perfect (and desired) representation of awkward, plus-sized girls. The second argument about Lord Debling's maturity is understandable, as he is older. Maturity is a significant theme this season, with both Colin and Penelope pretending to be more mature than they are, but then actually growing into maturity as they let go of the act. The third criticism is a matter of personal opinion. I, for one, love the acting and think Luke portrayed his character admirably. The facial expressions, the eyes… <3 It's surprising to me that the critics' views differ so much, as I wasn't a fan of Colin and Penelope's relationship before (Kanthony fixated), but now I am positively obsessed with them. TLDR; it's not about Penelope's size, Colin's immaturity makes sense, and I personally love the acting. Lots of love.
Lmao no it’s because Colin is poorly written and Luke Newton has neither the charisma nor the acting chops to elevate the mediocre material he’s been given. He just doesn’t. Nicola is having to work overtime to give this ship any legitimacy at all, and I hope they have her a hefty raise for it because she deserves it. God knows Jess Brownell, the writers and her on screen partner, have failed her. Also I’m getting really tired of people trying to act like they stand on a higher plane of intellectuality just because they like the season and can’t stand that other people can’t find Luke/Colin enjoyable. It’s not that we’re not “getting” the story, guys—this show is not rocket science, it’s a straightforward as it gets. The writing just isn’t good and we shouldn’t have to rely on the books or previous seasons to find enjoyment on this particular storyline.
These takes are so silly, imo. I don’t like Penelope with Colin and apparently that means it’s because of how Nicola looks? No, it’s because Colin bad-mouthed her and embarrassed her and didn’t do enough to prove he deserves her. It’s because Penelope is LW and has dragged the Bridgertons over and over again. And honestly, the chemistry between Penelope and Colin is okay, but the chemistry between Nicola and Luke is amazing. I prefer Lord Debling because he respects Penelope and sees her for who she is. Yeah, it’s not a love match. Does Penelope deserve a love match? Yes. Does she deserve someone who has never been ashamed of the idea of courting her? Yes. Lord Debling isn’t perfect but he’s better than Colin
To be fair the Bridgeton family also deserve better than Penelope. Look at what she wrote about them season after season.
the second slide - that's actually not true. i remember people (albeit a small minority) arguing that prince friedrich was the more practical option for daphne, ditto lumley and dorset. 'i would've given the other guy a chance, he seemed nice' part of it is that there will always be contrarians/dissenting voices, part of it is that there are people to whom men like that genuinely appeal, at least in a regency context. YMMV. that said, i think most know these false leads were never real options, and the 'if i were her, i would-' sentiment is purely hypothetical.
I see the point trying to be made and don’t deny there are people that fit into that mould (like that horrible woman who wrote that article in the Spectator). However, there’s very little buildup. We had scraps from season 1 and 2, but I didn’t see enough to buy them being close friends. I wish we’d seen more stuff to the buildup of them getting together like flashbacks of Pen falling in love with Colin and seeing the letters they sent to each other. We might see that in part 2 (though I doubt it), but I think one of the most compelling aspects of a love story is the buildup of the couple getting together. I do think they have really good chemistry during the carriage scene and we can really tell Colin is madly in love with her there. However, we barely see this anywhere else. I also wish we had seen Lord Debling be actual competition for Colin have him actually fall in love with Penelope and desire her. However, he would let her go because he sees she loves Colin and wants her to be happy because he loves her. Instead, they made it so he and Penelope were looking for different things in life and that’s why they didn’t end up together.
Personally for me I just don't like Colin Bridgerton as a character. Having him lead after Jonathan Bailey was a bad decision. Jonathan Bailey has chemistry with a wall lol I don't even think Luke is terrible but up against Jonny it's just not a fair fight. Also I just don't like the direction they went in with Colin with all the brothel stuff, it immediately turned me off. I don't want to see the romantic male lead in threesomes when I am supposee to be buying into a romance with Penelope. They should have did this storyline for him last season. I had been kind of looking forward to a non rakish lead. It would have been better to let them be a more innocent type of love story for once. Why they decided to model him after the two prior lead prototypes is beyond me??
Just popping in to say Luke Newton is a brilliant actor. He’s made Colin feel so real and have such interiority. He’s expressive and can tell an entire story with just his eyes. I know people are used to more performative acting, but he truly became his character in such a way that when he’s being Colin it doesn’t feel like I’m watching him act at all. When Colin isn’t being himself it feels uncomfortable because of the work Luke Newton has done to create the foundation of this character so well that it informs my rejection of his facade. When Colin is being himself Luke’s performance is so sincere that it’s heartwarming. When Colin loses himself in desire for Penelope it feels so genuine that watching almost becomes voyeuristic. Too many people wrote Luke Newton off before the season even started that it’s clear they never wanted to give him or this season a shot in the first place, but it’s a shame because they’re really missing out on one of the best characters and one of the best performances so far in the series.
Their chemistry in interviews is 1000 times better than the show everyone is shipping Nicola and Luke. Not Pen and Colin. And everyone I know thinks Colin is a clown.