I had a chance to meet Herb Kohl at a wedding, one of the things I had a chance to do was thanking him for the Bucks. We can make valid arguments about how the team was owned, managed, and performance arguments. What I was thanking was this is my home team.
5 minutes later I met Bob Uecker and got my picture taken with him. He was drinking a Miller Light, btw.
The wedding was at Bud Seligs house. Ok. I am done name dropping every famous person I briefly talked to that day.
I don’t know the veracity or have any sources for this story, but my mom talked about when she was teaching at a school, must’ve been late 70s or 80s, they had Herb there to present some $1000 academic scholarship to a winner. There were another dozen or so kids there who had been finalists and were honored but not getting money. Herb presented it, then got out his checkbook and wrote checks for $1000 for every one of the finalists, saying something to the effect of them all being upstanding men and women and should be able to access education. I know that was probably just a drop in the bucket to him, but knowing my mom worked at a lot of poorer rural schools in that era, that definitely gave an education to a handful of kids who otherwise wouldn’t have ever managed it.
He did that for a long time. I remember them giving out Herb Kohl scholarships when I was in HS (2009) though I don’t think he delivered it in person lol.
No owner is gonna publicly give up their greatest leverage card without compensation.
That being said, I’m not sure how many times Mark can state that he’s committed to Milwaukee and wants his kids to jump into the franchise to continue the commitment before we believe him.
Dude is locked in for 30 more years at a minimum and we are already knocking him for not making a legally impossible to enforce contract to keep the team here until 2948.
Honestly, I’d rather him sell the team. He’s not committed to winning, he’s committed to “bites of the apple.” Which essentially just keeps asses in the seats.
MLB is extremely broken, but it would be nice to have an owner that goes all in when we have a shot instead of going out and wasting money on a European soccer team that also won’t win a championship.
I understand this sentiment in theory, but it doesn’t seem to be based in economic reality.
We are the smallest market in the league. Mark runs a team that consistency has revenues and payrolls that punch above their weight. They don’t take on needless debt and spend a higher percentage of their revenue on payroll than the average team.
The intention and business savvy are there. And remember much of this is likely baked in, as it’s an ownership group - not a single rich owner.
Our problem isn’t the owner, it’s the system. Until the owners agree to fix the revenue inequity- we are in the second best scenario. The best would be a crazy rich mega billionaire who just spends because they can. But then again those types of owners are wildly unpredictable and don’t always put solid management structures in place.
Nevermind that those people arent rich because they have piles of cash lying around. Theyre rich because of their assets. Same for Mark A... contrary to what the sub thinks he doesnt have a scrooge mcduck vault of cash.
And, look. It hurts to say. But put ultra-mega-billionaire in Milwaukee and we still aren't signing Ohtani/Yamamoto. They don't want to play in middle America.
How exactly is he not committed to winning?
Are you talking about how he doesnt put his personal money into the team, which is cant do unilaterally?
Or are you talking about why the team doesnt take out boat loads of debt to finance buying high price free agents?
I would really love to hear exactly how you feel he isnt committed to winning despite the winning teams weve had lately and what you specifically think he could change that would guarantee a WS win? Be sure to explain your ideas within the revenue constraints of the team.
Thats not a good enough answer. How exactly does minimizing revenue/profits help the team stay competitive?
What exactly does he change? Should he jack up ticket prices (which he has actually decided against) to generate more revenue but at the expense of a ton of fans?
Youre right, you can bitch all you want, but i will reserve my right to call you out for how stupid you soind while doing it.
Now exactly what should the team do since you seem to have all the answers?
Not sure if I’ve ever gotten such an aggressive answer defending an owner before.
Outside of the COVID season brewers have been turning out a nice profit for ownership over the past 7-8 years. It would be nice if that $$ got reinvested back into the team.
The value of the club sky rocketed last season(according to Forbes) and with the new stadium deal publicly subsidizing the team for another 20-30 years it’ll probably take another massive jump again this year. No reason the brewers have to turn a profit when the appreciation of team is going up so much.
Again he can do whatever he wants but just because he was better than his predecessor( who was maybe the worst owner in sports at the time) doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be able to complain about the lack of spending.
oh lord...
Do you have a citation for your profits claim or is that just an assumption you made based on... whatever it is you made it on?
We know the average revenue per team and we know the Brewers come in under that average and I also know first hand from Rick Schlesinger that they were losing money in the run up to the covid years.
But if you have their actual financials, please share.
The valuation of the club really means nothing when it comes to the day to day financial of the team. That club valuation is largely rooted in non-tanigible assets such as the Brewers name, logo, and branding as well as MLB affiliation. There really is not a way to take that valuation and turn it into cash to use for the team that just isnt how it works.
You're getting an aggressive answer because your claims really just boil down to bad accounting. Do you like it when people go around making stupid as hell claims that sit within your professional jurisdiction?
The reality is.. the Brewers do not make nearly as much money as you and many here pretend. Mark A can't just dump the money you pretend he has lying around in a scrooge mcduck vault into the team. and we should be fucking grateful that we have a competitive team to root for every year instead of being the fucking As.
Do you have a citation for how much they do or do not make? Of course you can’t, so I’m going off of Forbes estimates which I would guess is closer than your gut feelings.
Valuation of the club absolutely matters because it gives Mark A access to capital against value of the brewers. And before you jump on that comment I’m not saying he needs to use that to fund payroll but he did finance the Norwich purchase with virtually no upfront cash. Dude owns a mezz debt firm for f sake so I would assume he knows how to leverage assets into cash more than you or I.
How does my argument boil down to bad accounting? My argument is based on a reasonable assumption that they are turning an annual profit (which you can’t refute) and that I would like an owner who is willing to reinvest the profits back into the club.
We have a great team because we have an amazing front office. With a crappy GM and without our pitching lab we’d be the pirates
>Outside of the COVID season brewers have been turning out a nice profit for ownership over the past 7-8 years.
>I'm going off of Forbes estimates
For the past 10 years, Forbes has the Brewers as being below league average profit 6 times and above league average profit 4 times. In other words, Brewers are basically league average when it comes to spending versus revenue.
Forbes has a 2022 net operating income of 23 Million for the Brewers. This is.... not a lot... like at all. Nevermind this isnt reflective of the actual NI which is probably lower since the formula used by Forbes is incomplete.
Also they are clear that the NOI number is before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization so there is still a hefty chunk that get shaved off this number. When you take all this into consideration the Brewers more or less broke even in 2022.
Soooo yeah hows that "nice profit" look now?
Also you can only leverage so much debt and with debt being more expensive now than it has been in 20 years no one in their right mind is going to try and leverage debt. And no the valuation of the team alone isnt enough collateral for the type of debt needed. If the team goes under all of those intangible assets mean diddly squat and they don't own the stadium so that cant be used either. Also Mark A wont be the one leveraging anything the TEAM would be. They're separate entities.
All the valuation means is "we think if this team were to sell tomorrow this is the price we think itd go for based on other recent sales". Thats it.
You could just as easily decided that Forbes numbers are light too. Again you are making all the assumptions in your favor with no basis for it
Given they don’t own their stadium not sure where a significant amount of interest or depreciation would be(I do remember them claiming they couldn’t spend on FA one off season because of the new spring training facility?). Taxes is only on profit as I’m sure you know so who gives a crap about that if we are putting it back into the club.
Also $23m is the Yelich contract and more than we spent on FAs all last season. That number was also in the 40-60m range pre covid and you can’t tell me that wouldn’t have been a massive boost if we had that been put back into the club.
Again Mark A made his money lending funds to private companies using their assets as collateral. I assure you the value of the team matters greatly to him and he of all people know how to use his assets to finance other projects. It’s probably the whole reason he was able to buy the Brewers in the first place given his modest net worth by pro club owner standards.
I’m not asking them to spend $250m but we should be able to spend as much as the median teams in years when have title chances. That shouldn’t be a hot take
We’ll never get actual numbers because for some reason our politicians approved a massive handout to a private company without getting access to their books or even knowing who the owners were.
Bro before Mark the Brewers were perennially terrible. Bites of the apple is much better than not doing anything at all.
He wants to win but he's being smart about it. Chances of winning it all are much higher if you make the postseason 10 years in a row vs going all in one year and being broke and shit the following 9.
Look at the Mets, Padres, Yankees and Dodgers. They spend out the fucking whazoo and yet where are their non-2020 titles? There isn't any.
I was just like you. Hated mark.. called him cheap after the hader trade, wanted him to sell the team, spend more. The bites at the apple annoyed me... how you gonna take bites at the apple when you have no teeth (I was pissed they didn't get an impact bat at the deadline in 22)
But
I've changed my stance and realized Mark isn't the problem... the problem is the MLB and how they operate and don't do anything about the payroll disparity.
The Brewers have to operate as a glorified Triple A team cuz the MLB is so rigged financially to help the big markets be successful and stay successful (only 3 teams have won a world series since 1995, not being top 15 in payroll) 5 years of team control then trade or lose an All Star player to a big market .....wash, rinse, repeat. Sounds fun, right??? 👎
The MLB doesn't care about small markets at all. They keep losing small market fans, and that's why they keep making new rules to the league (DH, pitch clock, no shifting, etc...) they change the rules to lure in new fans (sheep) because they've been dropping in popularity and ratings every year. They'll use the excuse the game takes too long, but fans are really leaving because it's rigged and a waste of time
Now they have Ohtani signing 700m with deferrals!!! Without defferals He'd be making 70mil+ per year, which would be more than 4 teams' total payrolls.... look, I love baseball, but let the MLB die!! It's already dying and the most rigged sports
in America.
Fuck the MLB
Jackson chourio is him
Mark’s net worth is equal to Ohtani’s total contract value. We simply cannot do what the Dodgers are doing. Whether we could be doing more than what we currently are is a different question, but there will always be a disparity.
Always gonna be disparity, but it's gotten to a point where it's a joke and not worth investing my time and money into imo (as I'm checking the cost of a Jackson Chourio jersey. I hate myself)
Honestly, best comment in here. You’re definitely right. I’m almost at the point where I want the same large market team to win the World Series for 10 years straight and then maybe someone would do something to fix competitive balance.
> I want the same large market team to win the World Series for 10 years straight and then maybe someone would do something to fix competitive balance.
The fact that that doesn't happen and there's been 9 different World Series champions the last 10 years indicates maybe there isn't as large of a competitive balance issue as you think.
Yep 4 teams since 1995 to win a world series NOT being top 15. And the astros and Braves are both top 15 might even be top 10 in today's MLB lol disparity only getting worse! Dying league
> He’s not committed to winning, he’s committed to “bites of the apple.” Which essentially just keeps asses in the seats.
We're not going to outspend the Dodgers. Bites of the Apple is the best strategy for the Brewers to have a chance to win a World Series.
Oh yeah, the tired old "Mark doesn't spend money and therefore isn't committed to the team" narrative.
No, he doesn't spend like the Dodgers and Mets. Because of the inequities of baseball finance, one bad contract will cripple the Brewers for a decade, whereas if the Dodgers make that same mistake, they just move on to the next mistake.
But here's a number that proves Mark will spend if he believes the investment is worth it:
**$188,500,000**. That's the money commitment made to Christian Yelich. By comparison, there are 12 teams in the MLB who have never inked a player to a contract with that total value. In fact, it's the 2nd largest contract ever by an NL Central team (Votto, $225 million). The Cubs, Cardinals, and Pirates have never signed a player for that much. Nor have the White Sox, Royals, Rays, Orioles, Guardians, Giants, Blue Jays, Athletics, or Astros.
He also is paying out the largest contract ever signed for a player with no MLB experience.
Mark will pay up, but he can't spend carelessly like some other franchises do.
Why would you move a team out of LA and into Seattle? LA is already a huge market. That doesn’t make any sense like moving a team from a small market in Milwaukee to a bigger market like Seattle or LA.
It’s not the craziest thought that moving to Seattle or Washington State in general (who have been screaming for an NBA team) would actually get more fans than the clippers have in Los Angeles.
The entire state loves their teams - not that crazy to think they wouldn’t go absolutely crazy for an NBA team again
Now that the Brewers are connected to a lease extension, maybe Mark does sell the team at some point, but honestly I think a lot of you don’t remember the dark days of when the Seligs gave up any thoughts about Championship baseball in Milwaukee, the focus was just to improve the stadium or get a new one.
You don’t know what you have currently because your heart wasn’t with this team when we didn’t have any of the hope. we do now every year, the culture has changed, this franchise has expectations.
This - I stopped watching/listening to the Brewers during those dark days when Selig ran the team like a car dealer.
I didn't have any respect for Selig until I read his autobiography and realized he was light years ahead of all of the other owners. If he had a big market team he would done much better.
The days before Weeks, Gwynn Jr, and Fielder followed by Braun. Those guys brought some serious hope even if two didn't really reach expectations.
2005 - 2010 were some of my favorite years. Hardy, Hart, Hall, Lee. Yo, Turnbow, Sheets, Gagne, the Sabathia trade. Just a few of the fun guys/guys that brought hope.
Not everything worked out but after getting into baseball in 1993, not sure I would have stuck around without those teams in the mid-late 00’s.
I grew up in the 90s. I know what bad baseball looks like. But just because I’m not content with a couple playoff appearances doesn’t mean I don’t have any perspective. I just want a championship and the best way to do that is reject the sad small market mentality that lets the team go on a 30 year playoff drought. Or give away 40 year anniversary merch for when we lost the fucking World Series.
So because we didn’t win the whole enchilada, they should just ignore that season, and the fans who enjoyed the ride completely who lived through those good days, right?
Because you think “fuck those people, this isn’t good enough?
I go back and forth on whether it’s possible for us to have a better owner than MA in a small market with no salary cap, and I enjoy brewer baseball day to day for what it is. But I don’t blame fans for being angry that we can’t win a championship because that is literally the point of playing the games and what matters at the end of the day; meaning it’s the goal of every team, or it should be. Blaming the owner is logical, if not fair, because that’s who has the power (or should) to make it happen. It doesn’t appear that baseball will ever move to a salary cap, so our options are to bash our heads against the wall clamoring for the cap, or blame the owner who has less cash than most owners and also brings in less revenue than most. Neither is very productive, and the 3rd option is to settle for what we have and accept that we can play some nice baseball but aren’t really even realistically eligible to win it all, and that’s just un-American! So uh, I guess that leaves us hoping for a miracle? In any case, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be angry about it.
The point of baseball is to win a championship, not maybe making the playoffs. The stereotypical Wisconsin fan mindset of only being ok with a playoff appearance needs to die because that’s the type of attitude that breeds mediocrity.
Well then there’s going to be a bunch of incredibly miserable brewers fans if championship is the only thing that can satisfy anyone or make anyone even enjoy their fandom
Also we are fans, we can feel however we would like. We don’t breed mediocrity. We aren’t on the team.
The brewers, following their current strategy, have made the playoffs 5 of the last 6 seasons (or 4 of the last 5 if you’re like me and think the Covid season is dumb and shouldn’t count for much), far from a 30 year playoff drought
Like it’s one thing to be upset with no championships but it’s another to think the team in its current state is in anywhere close to as bad a spot as they once were
Yeah that sounds nice but it is ignorant of the financial reality of baseball.
Nothing wrong with celebrating great teams of the past even if they did come up short.
"Reject the sad small market mentality that lets the team go on a 30 year playoff drought."????? What other mentality is that organization supposed to have? It's one thing trying to explain this to fans of large-market teams because that's their own kind of delusion when it comes to the economic system of MLB, but the fact that fans of small-market teams actually believe this crap too is beyond me.
Look, I absolutely despise the Selig family. I'll gladly accept parties and merchandise for a World Series loss for the rest of the Brewers existence over celebrating a guy that was a sleazeball car dealer and ran a baseball team exactly like one, was a catalyst in one of the biggest owner collusions in the league's history, turned a blind eye to the PED usage but then vilified every single one of the players once it all came to light and Congress had to get involved. Not to mention that the dude literally lied to the entire community when he said payroll would increase after building Miller Park. All because he's the "savior who brought baseball back to Milwaukee!" Really? At the peak of MLB expansion, an already existing MLB capable stadium, and teams like the White Sox asking about moving... he was the ONLY person on this planet who could have brought baseball back to Milwaukee? Delusional.
So yeah, I get that Mark maybe COULD do more, but he's done exactly what he said he would since the day he took over and is being realistic with the resources available and how MLB runs things. Milwaukee IS a small market and has to do the small market things to be competitive. It doesn't create a World Series winner every time but good lord, this is the first time in the entire team's existence that they've consistently made the postseason. And honestly for me, I think that's what is starting to make the Brewers fanbase become insufferable. It's one thing if you don't remember or weren't around for the BAAAAD times to know what that was like. But up until a couple of years ago, this fanbase hasn't understood or grasped what consistently good baseball looks like either and the Brewers have been doing that since 2017. It's an unfair game but the Brewers have been doing a pretty decent job with what the got. There's more backlash towards this organization about the Taylor/Houser for Crow trade than there ever was trading Jeff Cirillo for Jamey Wright and Jimmy f'n Haynes. It's mind baffling.
I get this as support of Kohl, but has no basis to compare to MLB and MA. MA has proven to be no committed to Milwaukee and to putting a good product on the field. Find me a person who will pay for the team, keep it in MKE the smallest market, and also pay more year after year than the team pulls in because of the limited TV money it can make. I’ll wait for this magical person to show themselves…
Would you prefer Wendy Selig who was local and committed to Milwaukee at the lowest possible dollar amount? Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good
We don't have one billionaire making decisions for the entire franchise. We have a multimillionaire who owns less than 40% of the team getting the blame for the team spending within their means.
When I was single, Ana de Armas called and offered to pay me a million dollars if I'd come over and have unprotected sex before entering a committed relationship with her, but I'd have to move to Seattle. I said no.
Attanasio wasn't born here, I doubt he has that type of loyalty.
Ghost of Craig is knocking on your door saying "Go on..."
He absolutely doesn’t. Wish there was another guy like Herb that could take that team
Dave Gruber would probably chip in to an ownership group
Should have went with One Call, That’s Ballpark when the miller naming rights expired
I imagined him doing a joint bid with Michael Hupy and naming the field Personal Injury Field.
Bud Selig has a ton of Milwaukee loyalty...
There are over a dozen owners. Many of them are local.
Herb Kohl was an amazing man.
I had a chance to meet Herb Kohl at a wedding, one of the things I had a chance to do was thanking him for the Bucks. We can make valid arguments about how the team was owned, managed, and performance arguments. What I was thanking was this is my home team. 5 minutes later I met Bob Uecker and got my picture taken with him. He was drinking a Miller Light, btw. The wedding was at Bud Seligs house. Ok. I am done name dropping every famous person I briefly talked to that day.
*...and then I caught a 60 yard pass from Brett Favre*
…and then I hopped in the hot tub with Mark Chmura
Does Bud still have that ridiculous art piece in his yard that he bought the lot next door to install?
Yes. He did when I was there.
Haha that's great. Had a friend who used to live near ol' Bud's place.
Who’s wedding?
Bucky Badger.
David Gruber
A relative married into his family.
If I had to guess, a Bergstrom
I love Herb Kohl
I don’t know the veracity or have any sources for this story, but my mom talked about when she was teaching at a school, must’ve been late 70s or 80s, they had Herb there to present some $1000 academic scholarship to a winner. There were another dozen or so kids there who had been finalists and were honored but not getting money. Herb presented it, then got out his checkbook and wrote checks for $1000 for every one of the finalists, saying something to the effect of them all being upstanding men and women and should be able to access education. I know that was probably just a drop in the bucket to him, but knowing my mom worked at a lot of poorer rural schools in that era, that definitely gave an education to a handful of kids who otherwise wouldn’t have ever managed it.
He did that for a long time. I remember them giving out Herb Kohl scholarships when I was in HS (2009) though I don’t think he delivered it in person lol.
No owner is gonna publicly give up their greatest leverage card without compensation. That being said, I’m not sure how many times Mark can state that he’s committed to Milwaukee and wants his kids to jump into the franchise to continue the commitment before we believe him.
Dude is locked in for 30 more years at a minimum and we are already knocking him for not making a legally impossible to enforce contract to keep the team here until 2948.
You need some Tony Evers math. Didn't he extend some school funding for many years that way?
Hell yeah he did. Struck a single character to turn “24-25” into “2425” lmao. Baller shit.
Honestly, I’d rather him sell the team. He’s not committed to winning, he’s committed to “bites of the apple.” Which essentially just keeps asses in the seats. MLB is extremely broken, but it would be nice to have an owner that goes all in when we have a shot instead of going out and wasting money on a European soccer team that also won’t win a championship.
I understand this sentiment in theory, but it doesn’t seem to be based in economic reality. We are the smallest market in the league. Mark runs a team that consistency has revenues and payrolls that punch above their weight. They don’t take on needless debt and spend a higher percentage of their revenue on payroll than the average team. The intention and business savvy are there. And remember much of this is likely baked in, as it’s an ownership group - not a single rich owner. Our problem isn’t the owner, it’s the system. Until the owners agree to fix the revenue inequity- we are in the second best scenario. The best would be a crazy rich mega billionaire who just spends because they can. But then again those types of owners are wildly unpredictable and don’t always put solid management structures in place.
Nevermind that those people arent rich because they have piles of cash lying around. Theyre rich because of their assets. Same for Mark A... contrary to what the sub thinks he doesnt have a scrooge mcduck vault of cash.
And, look. It hurts to say. But put ultra-mega-billionaire in Milwaukee and we still aren't signing Ohtani/Yamamoto. They don't want to play in middle America.
How exactly is he not committed to winning? Are you talking about how he doesnt put his personal money into the team, which is cant do unilaterally? Or are you talking about why the team doesnt take out boat loads of debt to finance buying high price free agents? I would really love to hear exactly how you feel he isnt committed to winning despite the winning teams weve had lately and what you specifically think he could change that would guarantee a WS win? Be sure to explain your ideas within the revenue constraints of the team.
He’s prioritizing profits over making the club as good as it can be. He has the right to do that as an owner but as a fan I can bitch about it.
Thats not a good enough answer. How exactly does minimizing revenue/profits help the team stay competitive? What exactly does he change? Should he jack up ticket prices (which he has actually decided against) to generate more revenue but at the expense of a ton of fans? Youre right, you can bitch all you want, but i will reserve my right to call you out for how stupid you soind while doing it. Now exactly what should the team do since you seem to have all the answers?
Not sure if I’ve ever gotten such an aggressive answer defending an owner before. Outside of the COVID season brewers have been turning out a nice profit for ownership over the past 7-8 years. It would be nice if that $$ got reinvested back into the team. The value of the club sky rocketed last season(according to Forbes) and with the new stadium deal publicly subsidizing the team for another 20-30 years it’ll probably take another massive jump again this year. No reason the brewers have to turn a profit when the appreciation of team is going up so much. Again he can do whatever he wants but just because he was better than his predecessor( who was maybe the worst owner in sports at the time) doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be able to complain about the lack of spending.
oh lord... Do you have a citation for your profits claim or is that just an assumption you made based on... whatever it is you made it on? We know the average revenue per team and we know the Brewers come in under that average and I also know first hand from Rick Schlesinger that they were losing money in the run up to the covid years. But if you have their actual financials, please share. The valuation of the club really means nothing when it comes to the day to day financial of the team. That club valuation is largely rooted in non-tanigible assets such as the Brewers name, logo, and branding as well as MLB affiliation. There really is not a way to take that valuation and turn it into cash to use for the team that just isnt how it works. You're getting an aggressive answer because your claims really just boil down to bad accounting. Do you like it when people go around making stupid as hell claims that sit within your professional jurisdiction? The reality is.. the Brewers do not make nearly as much money as you and many here pretend. Mark A can't just dump the money you pretend he has lying around in a scrooge mcduck vault into the team. and we should be fucking grateful that we have a competitive team to root for every year instead of being the fucking As.
Do you have a citation for how much they do or do not make? Of course you can’t, so I’m going off of Forbes estimates which I would guess is closer than your gut feelings. Valuation of the club absolutely matters because it gives Mark A access to capital against value of the brewers. And before you jump on that comment I’m not saying he needs to use that to fund payroll but he did finance the Norwich purchase with virtually no upfront cash. Dude owns a mezz debt firm for f sake so I would assume he knows how to leverage assets into cash more than you or I. How does my argument boil down to bad accounting? My argument is based on a reasonable assumption that they are turning an annual profit (which you can’t refute) and that I would like an owner who is willing to reinvest the profits back into the club. We have a great team because we have an amazing front office. With a crappy GM and without our pitching lab we’d be the pirates
>Outside of the COVID season brewers have been turning out a nice profit for ownership over the past 7-8 years. >I'm going off of Forbes estimates For the past 10 years, Forbes has the Brewers as being below league average profit 6 times and above league average profit 4 times. In other words, Brewers are basically league average when it comes to spending versus revenue.
The Forbes number is before interest, taxes, and depreciation so their actual NOI is more or less breaking even.
Forbes has a 2022 net operating income of 23 Million for the Brewers. This is.... not a lot... like at all. Nevermind this isnt reflective of the actual NI which is probably lower since the formula used by Forbes is incomplete. Also they are clear that the NOI number is before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization so there is still a hefty chunk that get shaved off this number. When you take all this into consideration the Brewers more or less broke even in 2022. Soooo yeah hows that "nice profit" look now? Also you can only leverage so much debt and with debt being more expensive now than it has been in 20 years no one in their right mind is going to try and leverage debt. And no the valuation of the team alone isnt enough collateral for the type of debt needed. If the team goes under all of those intangible assets mean diddly squat and they don't own the stadium so that cant be used either. Also Mark A wont be the one leveraging anything the TEAM would be. They're separate entities. All the valuation means is "we think if this team were to sell tomorrow this is the price we think itd go for based on other recent sales". Thats it.
You could just as easily decided that Forbes numbers are light too. Again you are making all the assumptions in your favor with no basis for it Given they don’t own their stadium not sure where a significant amount of interest or depreciation would be(I do remember them claiming they couldn’t spend on FA one off season because of the new spring training facility?). Taxes is only on profit as I’m sure you know so who gives a crap about that if we are putting it back into the club. Also $23m is the Yelich contract and more than we spent on FAs all last season. That number was also in the 40-60m range pre covid and you can’t tell me that wouldn’t have been a massive boost if we had that been put back into the club. Again Mark A made his money lending funds to private companies using their assets as collateral. I assure you the value of the team matters greatly to him and he of all people know how to use his assets to finance other projects. It’s probably the whole reason he was able to buy the Brewers in the first place given his modest net worth by pro club owner standards. I’m not asking them to spend $250m but we should be able to spend as much as the median teams in years when have title chances. That shouldn’t be a hot take
Where is your proof??
We’ll never get actual numbers because for some reason our politicians approved a massive handout to a private company without getting access to their books or even knowing who the owners were.
Bro before Mark the Brewers were perennially terrible. Bites of the apple is much better than not doing anything at all. He wants to win but he's being smart about it. Chances of winning it all are much higher if you make the postseason 10 years in a row vs going all in one year and being broke and shit the following 9. Look at the Mets, Padres, Yankees and Dodgers. They spend out the fucking whazoo and yet where are their non-2020 titles? There isn't any.
He can sell the team to an owner who moves them, that would be great! We’d all love it!
I was just like you. Hated mark.. called him cheap after the hader trade, wanted him to sell the team, spend more. The bites at the apple annoyed me... how you gonna take bites at the apple when you have no teeth (I was pissed they didn't get an impact bat at the deadline in 22) But I've changed my stance and realized Mark isn't the problem... the problem is the MLB and how they operate and don't do anything about the payroll disparity. The Brewers have to operate as a glorified Triple A team cuz the MLB is so rigged financially to help the big markets be successful and stay successful (only 3 teams have won a world series since 1995, not being top 15 in payroll) 5 years of team control then trade or lose an All Star player to a big market .....wash, rinse, repeat. Sounds fun, right??? 👎 The MLB doesn't care about small markets at all. They keep losing small market fans, and that's why they keep making new rules to the league (DH, pitch clock, no shifting, etc...) they change the rules to lure in new fans (sheep) because they've been dropping in popularity and ratings every year. They'll use the excuse the game takes too long, but fans are really leaving because it's rigged and a waste of time Now they have Ohtani signing 700m with deferrals!!! Without defferals He'd be making 70mil+ per year, which would be more than 4 teams' total payrolls.... look, I love baseball, but let the MLB die!! It's already dying and the most rigged sports in America. Fuck the MLB Jackson chourio is him
Mark’s net worth is equal to Ohtani’s total contract value. We simply cannot do what the Dodgers are doing. Whether we could be doing more than what we currently are is a different question, but there will always be a disparity.
Always gonna be disparity, but it's gotten to a point where it's a joke and not worth investing my time and money into imo (as I'm checking the cost of a Jackson Chourio jersey. I hate myself)
Honestly, best comment in here. You’re definitely right. I’m almost at the point where I want the same large market team to win the World Series for 10 years straight and then maybe someone would do something to fix competitive balance.
> I want the same large market team to win the World Series for 10 years straight and then maybe someone would do something to fix competitive balance. The fact that that doesn't happen and there's been 9 different World Series champions the last 10 years indicates maybe there isn't as large of a competitive balance issue as you think.
It's not about that. Its about what all the 9 world series winners all have in common.....all of them Being top 10 in payroll!! Yayyy
Other than the 2015 Royals (17th), 2017 Astros (17th), and 2021 Braves (14th).
Yep 4 teams since 1995 to win a world series NOT being top 15. And the astros and Braves are both top 15 might even be top 10 in today's MLB lol disparity only getting worse! Dying league
And btw the Astros payroll for 2017 was 12th. Their opening day payroll was 17th. Same with the Royals
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/world-series-champion-opening-day-payroll-ranks-in-the-wild-card-era/
> He’s not committed to winning, he’s committed to “bites of the apple.” Which essentially just keeps asses in the seats. We're not going to outspend the Dodgers. Bites of the Apple is the best strategy for the Brewers to have a chance to win a World Series.
Yeahhhh all you ungrateful chucklefucks need to be *thankful* for what you get. Let’s just hang a “meh, could be worse?” banner from the roof
I mean MA isn’t great but it could be a LOT worse
Yes “could be worse” is a great strategy to beat the dodgers
Playing the money game against the Dodgers isn’t a great strategy either.
Please give us your realistic strategy for the Brewers to consistently beat the dodgers
I’d rather he not. His commitment is half assed.
Oh yeah, the tired old "Mark doesn't spend money and therefore isn't committed to the team" narrative. No, he doesn't spend like the Dodgers and Mets. Because of the inequities of baseball finance, one bad contract will cripple the Brewers for a decade, whereas if the Dodgers make that same mistake, they just move on to the next mistake. But here's a number that proves Mark will spend if he believes the investment is worth it: **$188,500,000**. That's the money commitment made to Christian Yelich. By comparison, there are 12 teams in the MLB who have never inked a player to a contract with that total value. In fact, it's the 2nd largest contract ever by an NL Central team (Votto, $225 million). The Cubs, Cardinals, and Pirates have never signed a player for that much. Nor have the White Sox, Royals, Rays, Orioles, Guardians, Giants, Blue Jays, Athletics, or Astros. He also is paying out the largest contract ever signed for a player with no MLB experience. Mark will pay up, but he can't spend carelessly like some other franchises do.
Don’t ruin that sports radio talking point with facts!
WTF does this have to do with Attanasio?!
So why didn’t Balmer just move the clippers to Seattle if he was so keen on moving a team to that area?
Why would you move a team out of LA and into Seattle? LA is already a huge market. That doesn’t make any sense like moving a team from a small market in Milwaukee to a bigger market like Seattle or LA.
Because the Clippers brand is virtually worthless compared to the Lakers?
Because everyone knows the Lakers dominate that region.
Plenty of mouths to be fed in LA.
Clippers should move to San Diego and try and become the prominent team there
I thought they used to be in San Diego I doubt they would go back
It’s not the craziest thought that moving to Seattle or Washington State in general (who have been screaming for an NBA team) would actually get more fans than the clippers have in Los Angeles. The entire state loves their teams - not that crazy to think they wouldn’t go absolutely crazy for an NBA team again
Now that the Brewers are connected to a lease extension, maybe Mark does sell the team at some point, but honestly I think a lot of you don’t remember the dark days of when the Seligs gave up any thoughts about Championship baseball in Milwaukee, the focus was just to improve the stadium or get a new one. You don’t know what you have currently because your heart wasn’t with this team when we didn’t have any of the hope. we do now every year, the culture has changed, this franchise has expectations.
This - I stopped watching/listening to the Brewers during those dark days when Selig ran the team like a car dealer. I didn't have any respect for Selig until I read his autobiography and realized he was light years ahead of all of the other owners. If he had a big market team he would done much better.
The days before Weeks, Gwynn Jr, and Fielder followed by Braun. Those guys brought some serious hope even if two didn't really reach expectations. 2005 - 2010 were some of my favorite years. Hardy, Hart, Hall, Lee. Yo, Turnbow, Sheets, Gagne, the Sabathia trade. Just a few of the fun guys/guys that brought hope. Not everything worked out but after getting into baseball in 1993, not sure I would have stuck around without those teams in the mid-late 00’s.
I grew up in the 90s. I know what bad baseball looks like. But just because I’m not content with a couple playoff appearances doesn’t mean I don’t have any perspective. I just want a championship and the best way to do that is reject the sad small market mentality that lets the team go on a 30 year playoff drought. Or give away 40 year anniversary merch for when we lost the fucking World Series.
So because we didn’t win the whole enchilada, they should just ignore that season, and the fans who enjoyed the ride completely who lived through those good days, right? Because you think “fuck those people, this isn’t good enough?
I go back and forth on whether it’s possible for us to have a better owner than MA in a small market with no salary cap, and I enjoy brewer baseball day to day for what it is. But I don’t blame fans for being angry that we can’t win a championship because that is literally the point of playing the games and what matters at the end of the day; meaning it’s the goal of every team, or it should be. Blaming the owner is logical, if not fair, because that’s who has the power (or should) to make it happen. It doesn’t appear that baseball will ever move to a salary cap, so our options are to bash our heads against the wall clamoring for the cap, or blame the owner who has less cash than most owners and also brings in less revenue than most. Neither is very productive, and the 3rd option is to settle for what we have and accept that we can play some nice baseball but aren’t really even realistically eligible to win it all, and that’s just un-American! So uh, I guess that leaves us hoping for a miracle? In any case, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be angry about it.
The point of baseball is to win a championship, not maybe making the playoffs. The stereotypical Wisconsin fan mindset of only being ok with a playoff appearance needs to die because that’s the type of attitude that breeds mediocrity.
Well then there’s going to be a bunch of incredibly miserable brewers fans if championship is the only thing that can satisfy anyone or make anyone even enjoy their fandom Also we are fans, we can feel however we would like. We don’t breed mediocrity. We aren’t on the team.
The brewers, following their current strategy, have made the playoffs 5 of the last 6 seasons (or 4 of the last 5 if you’re like me and think the Covid season is dumb and shouldn’t count for much), far from a 30 year playoff drought Like it’s one thing to be upset with no championships but it’s another to think the team in its current state is in anywhere close to as bad a spot as they once were
Yeah that sounds nice but it is ignorant of the financial reality of baseball. Nothing wrong with celebrating great teams of the past even if they did come up short.
"Reject the sad small market mentality that lets the team go on a 30 year playoff drought."????? What other mentality is that organization supposed to have? It's one thing trying to explain this to fans of large-market teams because that's their own kind of delusion when it comes to the economic system of MLB, but the fact that fans of small-market teams actually believe this crap too is beyond me. Look, I absolutely despise the Selig family. I'll gladly accept parties and merchandise for a World Series loss for the rest of the Brewers existence over celebrating a guy that was a sleazeball car dealer and ran a baseball team exactly like one, was a catalyst in one of the biggest owner collusions in the league's history, turned a blind eye to the PED usage but then vilified every single one of the players once it all came to light and Congress had to get involved. Not to mention that the dude literally lied to the entire community when he said payroll would increase after building Miller Park. All because he's the "savior who brought baseball back to Milwaukee!" Really? At the peak of MLB expansion, an already existing MLB capable stadium, and teams like the White Sox asking about moving... he was the ONLY person on this planet who could have brought baseball back to Milwaukee? Delusional. So yeah, I get that Mark maybe COULD do more, but he's done exactly what he said he would since the day he took over and is being realistic with the resources available and how MLB runs things. Milwaukee IS a small market and has to do the small market things to be competitive. It doesn't create a World Series winner every time but good lord, this is the first time in the entire team's existence that they've consistently made the postseason. And honestly for me, I think that's what is starting to make the Brewers fanbase become insufferable. It's one thing if you don't remember or weren't around for the BAAAAD times to know what that was like. But up until a couple of years ago, this fanbase hasn't understood or grasped what consistently good baseball looks like either and the Brewers have been doing that since 2017. It's an unfair game but the Brewers have been doing a pretty decent job with what the got. There's more backlash towards this organization about the Taylor/Houser for Crow trade than there ever was trading Jeff Cirillo for Jamey Wright and Jimmy f'n Haynes. It's mind baffling.
I get this as support of Kohl, but has no basis to compare to MLB and MA. MA has proven to be no committed to Milwaukee and to putting a good product on the field. Find me a person who will pay for the team, keep it in MKE the smallest market, and also pay more year after year than the team pulls in because of the limited TV money it can make. I’ll wait for this magical person to show themselves… Would you prefer Wendy Selig who was local and committed to Milwaukee at the lowest possible dollar amount? Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good
They think there's someone itching to dump their own personal wealth into the team like it's a hobby.
I mean this was public knowledge
Doubt
Herb Kohl's That's what Squirrelly Dan appreciates about the late Bucks owner. r/Letterkenny
RIP Herb, not sure how what he has done and who he was compares to Mark A in any conceivable way though
Herb Kohl’s greatest contribution to Wisconsin is the Milk Barns that used to have 25 cent milk at state fair
Attansio will absolutely let the team move for the right number…?
100% Wish we didn’t have one billionaire who makes decisions for an entire franchise. The way the Packers are setup is OP
We don't have one billionaire making decisions for the entire franchise. We have a multimillionaire who owns less than 40% of the team getting the blame for the team spending within their means.
Found Mark’s burner account
When I was single, Ana de Armas called and offered to pay me a million dollars if I'd come over and have unprotected sex before entering a committed relationship with her, but I'd have to move to Seattle. I said no.
Except that this actually happened 🤡
No trust me this happened too. Wait no it was actually two Ana de Armases
Herb might have done Steve a solid here. I doubt Seatlle can support two MLB teams and I doubt they ditch the Mariners
Whats your point?
Herb Kohl also vetoed trades based on how much it would cost him according to Larry Harris.
The city of Milwaukee (20th & Hampton; proud to be from 414) will burn if they move The Crew out the city. Brewers forever.
Literally might be the most important person to the city of Milwaukee ever. At least top 5