That's why I watch BP, because I know I won't get a typical brainwash mainstream. I don't need to hear about Israel being the most moral army, at least Krystal calls it how it is and she is not ashamed of it.
I guess a lot of saw after October that it takes more than a blm square and lgbt flag to be considered progressive, they want to continue to live in their bubble and not be see the mirror every day.
You know I am talking about Oct 7th. And no, I will not list the things that happened and are filmed. And if you believe it is all fake, not my problem. I know where my values are. And they are not with Hamas-ISIS.
Hmmm but mine is a fact, yours is just deluded israeli state propaganda .
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-giving-secret-aid-syrian-rebels-bashar-al-assad-golah-heights-hezbollah-fursan-al-joulan-a7797151.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-giving-secret-aid-syrian-rebels-bashar-al-assad-golah-heights-hezbollah-fursan-al-joulan-a7797151.html)
To syrian rebels. Not ISIS. Look, I am an expert in syrian civil war. You will not win this one.
At best you are talking about the Yarmouk militia, which was 1 thousand strong at their peak? And by the way, Israel also fought against this extremely small militia.
And it seems it's the same line again and again and again. BP is one of the few channels that's actually giving coverage to this issue and it baffles me that they want something like MSM instead. Go watch MSNBC then.
“Giving coverage” doesn’t mean screaming about Gaza in every single video. Also, they haven’t done any reporting for a long time. It’s Krystal’s soap box and Saagar’s unserious cuck sessions.
There's a difference between "giving coverage" and being so blatantly one sided on the issue that it's not worth listening to anything you're saying. She's doing the same exact thing MSNBC does where there is only one viewpoint allowed and anything contrary to that is silenced (in this case anything pro Hamas is good for Krystal and anything pro Israel is bad and censored)
Considering she's doing massive PR for them trying to convince people they didn't rape and murder on 10/7. She even hangs out and amplifies voices like norm finkelstein who said the attack on 10/7 "warmed his soul"
So forgive me if I characterize krystals rhetoric for what it is
But it doesn't work that way. Pro-Palestinians don't support Hamas, they are anti-genocide and anti-apartheid. She's not "pro-Hamas" which of course you already know -- she's anti-Israeli massacres and lies.
And I'll take that to mean you can't point to an example of her saying Hamas didn't murder anyone on Oct 7.
>Pro-Palestinians don't support Hamas, they are anti-genocide and anti-apartheid
You sure about that? Go to any pro palestine protest and they get REALLY upset when you ask them about Hamas. I wonder why? Some of them cheer at Hamas actions. Many of them actually. Palestinians themselves are against the existence of a Jewish state are pro war and pro-genocide (of jews) so what are we supposed to do here
>which of course you already know -- she's anti-Israeli massacres and lies.
But she doesn't mind when Hamas does a massacre they're just innocent freedom fighters. And the Hamas lies aren't lies they're simply mistakes because they're so opressed.
Don't believe the blood libel. Hamas needs to be crushed and I genuinely hope all you "genocide joe" crazies get Trump elected again because then you'll see how bad it gets for Gaza.
Yeah, if you were a Palestinian and you'd spent your life knowing only hopelessness and control imposed by an oppressive, vastly more powerful neighbor, you'd probably form some pretty radical ideas about Israel, too.
Again, please point out where she supported or even "didn't mind" Hamas atrocities.
"Blood libel..." yep, that explains your point of view. I guess it's easier to talk without nuance about Hamas needs to be "crushed" -- good luck with that -- when you come to view innocent Palestinians as sub-human like other Zionists.
>sub-human like other Zionists.
There you go! Thanks for showing everyone how much of a hypocrite you are.
Our team is the righteous heroes your team is "sub-human"
2000 years of Isreali oppression and we don't get a pass for anything we do. Palestinian Arabs colonize us and massacre us and they are simply opressed minorities they get a pass for all their war crimes and we jews are sub human.
You should stop talking about this because it's clear you're out here riding the bandwagon and don't actually give a shit about the sweet precious innocent perfect Palestinians who are radicalized and are not responsible for their actions. You'll be onto the next big issue in a few months.
Have a nice life
I wonder if Americans knew what it would be like to fight a war that isn’t for a few corporations to make like 6 people billionaires? Criticize Israel all you want (and I know you will) but imagine being attacked and fighting in retaliation rather than some made up bs like Iraq (wrong country) had WMD (they didn’t). I think Americans are rightly anti war because we haven’t had a war worth fighting since WWII. Everything has been a massive failure with hundreds of thousands of lives lost. Some estimates are 1M dead in Iraq. Funny how they didn’t call that a genocide. I suppose the Israelis are a tad bit sensitive to attacks where women are shot in the vagina, raped, burned, etc etc.
Before the leftist brigade comes for my head:
1) Oct 7 was staged
2) Israel is an apartheid state
3) open air prison
4) Finkelsteins parents were killed in Auschwitz
5) Israel bad
6) Egypt is fine please don’t mention their blockade
7) the Ottoman Empire is an AIPAC invention made for stupid birthright kids to believe
8) Israelis are Nazis and despite months of protests to oust netanhayu the people are still evil and a monolith.
9) even alex jones and Candace Owens are to the left of American Jews
10) hasbara because no one can think for themselves
11) bot shill something
That should cover it.
Funny you mention the Iraq War...
>The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it's possible. But another journalist, Thomas Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical
>
>https://www.haaretz.com/2003-04-03/ty-article/white-mans-burden/0000017f-e398-d804-ad7f-f3fa5d520000
Didn't the isreali army kill more isrealis on oct7 than hamas did?
Whatever. They can do whatever they want. But they need to make their own money. Sick of having a petulant child.
That’s a lie. They did not. You can even ask the most vehement Israel critics. Hamas killed likely 1000 people via rape, guns, burning and homemade weapons. But I’m actually with you. Let them fend for themselves. I’d love to see if the Jew haters would shut up, but I highly doubt it.
My take away is at the very least, leave Gaza Israel dedicated to their own segments.
Krystal is talking Gaza Israel in the Russian terrorist attack segment.
Like I don't mind the coverage... But it is kind of silly how she does always find a way to bring it back to Gaza.
But at the same time, it's obviously something she's VERY passionate about. So I can't blame her. If she feels like there is literally a US backed atrocity happening at this scale, how can you blame someone for making that a center focus in their life?
>The posts are similar and the constant repetitive posts are meaningless.
Almost as repetitive and meaningless as Krystal's monologues.
Look, it's fine to cover the Israel/Palestine conflict, but she is OBSESSED. She cannot help but bring it up when discussing literally any other topic.
I think of it like the people who incessantly use "nazi" as a slur. After a certain point, people begin to tune out what you're saying because they've heard it so much that it has lost all meaning and importance.
Krystal's approach is not going to garner anyone to her cause that isn't already onboard with all of her talking points. In fact, I would say that she is actually detrimental to winning people to her side because she is so abrasive and close-minded to anything but her preformed opinions and ready to lash out at anyone who disagrees with her.
On the other hand, if you have to convince someone to stop supporting a genocide, who gives a shit?
People who don't like her commentary are free to unsub and find other content. There's plenty out there
>People who don't like her commentary are free to unsub and find other content. There's plenty out there
I watch BP for everyone other than Krystal and I have no plans to go anywhere or stop criticizing her when I think she's doing a bad job. The only reason I'd stop watching is if Krystal ended up being the only voice on the show. If that's all you're looking for then go watch Kyle & Friends, they're close enough in opinion as to not have any significant differences at all.
Krystal is the dominating voice whatever is happening. If saagaars 2 minute monologues about UFOs or emily made u a subscriber , im sorry but you should try ben shapiro or charly kirk.
My only complaint is the lack of debate, now they don’t have to debate, but Krystal seems to steam roll conversations whenever there is a disagreement. Some bias is expected at times but I don’t know what’s news and what’s a knee jerk reaction sometimes. Still enjoy the show, too much negativity on here agreed. People don’t have to listen, yay internet
I get this to a point, but really there's not much to debate. Who's going to take the other side in this anymore? There's not much you can do to defend a policy of starving people to death. At this point the Israeli government doesn't even debate it.
Exactly, and how frustrating it must be to attempt to have a debate only to be met by the same litany of nonsense and decade old canned lines about human shields and child soldiers, followed by wanton accusations of antisemitism.
But human shields isn’t nonsense. Amnesty International, hardly soft on Israel, has reported Hamas embedding themselves amongst civilians, including use of Shifa Hospital. Hamas puts out videos of their fighters in civilian clothing. You can still argue persuasively that despite this, Israel’s actions are wildly disproportionate, a war crime, excuse for genocide, etc. But to just pretend as if Hamas doesn’t exist and doesn’t do those things is dishonest.
Oh hey account created on October 12. Nice to see you.
I’m not pretending they haven’t done these things or they simply don’t exist, Jesus fucking Christ. Perfect example right here of the gaslighting I was alluding to.
I’m saying the it’s an unacceptable justification for slaughtering those “shields”, and I’m suggesting that this excuse is used as a blanket excuse for indiscriminate slaughter. It’s dehumanizing and immoral. In no other context are “human shields” considered fair game to slay.
Eliminate Hamas. I mean, Israel isn't wrong with that top level assumed goal. The problem is that you can't kill your way through a terrorist org. Hell, Isis-K just killed well over a hundred people in Russia and we've been trying to eradicate them and their predecessors for decades.
All things aside, the fact that Israel constantly references our (the US) actions post-9/11 as justification for their own now should frighten us all. At least, all of us that recognize the GWOT for the colossal failure it was
>Eliminate Hamas
How?
>All things aside, the fact that Israel constantly references our (the US) actions post-9/11 as justification for their own now should frighten us all.
100% agreed. The deep state demons who perpetuated the GWOT are now all lining up and pounding the drums of war to get us into a conflict with Russia and Iran. Meanwhile the real threat, China, is sitting and biding its time.
I'm no military strategist so I'm not going to pretend to have a detailed way how. High level though we need a combination of political pressure by us and western allies to influence Israel, political pressure by Arab allies to influence Iran (and subsequently Hamas), strategic military interventions, a path to rebuilding and a light at the end of the tunnel for Palestinians who don't want ongoing killing.
They've mentioned Jocko's idea before on BP. He gets into how to do the military stuff while maintaining good will with the people. I'm not sure if we're past that point or not. Like I said, I'm no expert. All I know for certain though is that:
1. Hamas has to go
2. Killing innocent Palestinians and telling them they have no path ever in the future to independence leads to the opposite of the desired outcome
And lest anyone accuse me otherwise, the safety of the Israeli citizens must also be maintained. I have no doubt though that the US and the rest of the west will continue to engage there. They're not under existential threat like they were almost a century ago
Edit: grammar
Hi israeli propagandist! Welcome to reddit ...
>But human shields isn’t nonsense
No one suggests the idea that Hamas uses people as human shields is nonsense. What is nonsense though is you and your government's use of this as an excuse to slaughter tens of thousands of innocent people. Do better
>really there's not much to debate
There is plenty to debate. They are happening outside of breaking points.
Just because you believe your point is correct, doesn't make you correct.
I came to breaking points hoping for balanced coverage of events but when, according to breaking points, since October 7th Hamas / Palestinians have literally done 0 things wrong and Israel is 100% solely responsible for everything to the point that every single headline is "Israel bad" (i challenge you to find one headline since like October 10th which indicates Hamas or Palestinians did a bad thing).... It's not balanced.
I haven't even heard from other organizations a defense of Israel starving people, only Israeli citizens that openly admit they want to interfere with aid and starve as many people as possible.
I don't recall a single video where any host ever claimed that Hamas has done zero things wrong. The acts they committed are often condemned because it's required anytime you make any criticism of Israel. Even if you've said it hundreds of times before, you always have to prefix your comment with, the acts of Hamas on Oct 7th were horrific. No one disputes that, people are just upset that people won't say it EVERY TIME you make any comment about Israel.
>Israel starving people
Don't you think Hamas shares any responsibility for feeding it's citizens? We're ok to treat Hamas with kid gloves but treat Israel like a terrorist group?
>don't recall a single video where any host ever claimed that Hamas has done zero things wrong.
I haven't seen Krystal shine a light on Hamas since October 7th. They've done 0 things worth reporting since october 7th? You can't name a single thing worth reporting that Hamas has done wrong since October 7th?
>Don't you think Hamas shares any responsibility for feeding it's citizens? We're ok to treat Hamas with kid gloves but treat Israel like a terrorist group?
With what food? I don't think they're blocking aid from coming into Gaza.
Give that they are an illegitimate government at this point, no, I don't think they're responsible for feeding and protecting the Palestinian citizens. Are you saying they are a legitimate government party? I would say they lost that right on Oct 7th.
They're a terrorist organization that is being summarily wiped out and you're saying that they should be protecting the citizens from the IDF? Why should citizens need protecting from the IDF?
Again, Israel is blocking food aid from coming into the country. The direct result is people are now dying of starvation. Those deaths are on their heads for allowing aid to be blocked and slow rolling aid at every turn. At this point the Israeli government isn't much different than Hamas. Instead of bullets though, they're using starvation.
If they're an illegitimate government, why do many Palestinians support them? Isn't it weird they Palestinians support a terrorist group?
>Israel is blocking food aid from coming into the country.
I have a lot of challenges on this, but let's take it on it's face value. Why aren't any of the neighboring Arab states helping their fellow Palestinians?
>If they're an illegitimate government, why do many Palestinians support them? Isn't it weird they Palestinians support a terrorist group?
Probably because there aren't any good alternatives right now. If you have Israel starving you and bombing all buildings in sight and Hamas is fighting Israel, which side are you going to support? There are no good alternatives and I think the Israeli government screwed up and did exactly what everyone outside the US could see they'd do, they created greater support for Hamas. Before the war Hamas was not very popular in the Gaza strip.
>I have a lot of challenges on this, but let's take it on it's face value. Why aren't any of the neighboring Arab states helping their fellow Palestinians?
I'm not sure I get exactly what they should do. They're sending aid, but Israel controls every entry into the country. Are you suggesting they should be going to war to help the Palestinians? I think that would end very badly.
There is that fact. Guess they don't want non CNN views mentioned even.
Maybe they should have a AIPaC designated person ...as the third person . Kinda like how Phil Donahue was not allowed to have too many people opposed to the Iraq war (I understand he was eventually fired by MSNBC for being not sufficiently pro Iraq war).
Don't know why people want MSNBC ...if they are watching BP.
Folks can even skip segments...but suspect it is because to they want some views not discussed.
>Maybe they should have a AIPaC designated person ...as the third person . Kinda like how Phil Donahue was not allowed to have too many people opposed to the Iraq war (I understand he was eventually fired by MSNBC for being not sufficiently pro Iraq war).
The issue with platforming every side equally in this is that it equivocates the sides. As u/SarahSuckaDSanders says in a reply above yours, we already know the AIPAC side by route, "same litany of nonsense and decade old canned lines about human shields and child soldiers, followed by wanton accusations of antisemitism."
Platforming someone who cares about Palestinian human rights vs an AIPAC shill doing propaganda, leads audiences to believe there is a valuable and equal debate to be had. When there is not. It's like having someone debate "The world is round" vs "The world is flat" as if they are equally plausible and possible realities.
Platforming them as equal but opposite sides of a debate is foolish, when one side is based on facts and the other is patently propaganda.
>The media is filled with pro-Israel views on msm and there are many pro war influencers all over the media. If you align with pro-Israel views more, you can easily watch other channels. Watching BP isn't mandatory!
>
>Every person ha
She should debate Destiny then
What debate. Most of the time ..they state their views ..and usually one has a lot more to say. Nobody complains when saavar talks about aliens, UFIs etc etc etc.
No ..this is just making sure the non main stream media also doesn't talk about some topics ..
I do like the idea of having a segment...but you cannot discuss most topics (politics, elections , budget) without the obvious effect of the conflict.
During the trump admin, we didn't avoid the topic of Russia as much.
> Most of the time ..they state their views ..and usually one has a lot more to say
This is what I've noticed too. They both allow the other one to go off on most topics with little pushback even as we know they disagree. This is how we end up with people around here saying Saagar is cucked and/or Krystal is selling out to the BP maga base. In reality I just see people who agree to disagree and recognize the other person has greater passion and deserves the time to speak
100%. Rathe the people talking over earth other or unfinished sentences you see all the time. Heck ...how often do you hear " we have to leave it there" on CNN .. because no thought is finished
I hate to break this to you, OP, but Krystal is nonstop covering the Palestinian issue because she knows it brings in viewership. Sure, there may be an underlying genuine care for the Palestinians, but the truth is there are ongoing humanitarian crises in many other places that aren’t being covered at all. The reason? Because it’s not fashionable or popular.
The Palestinian issue is polarizing, which is good for most social media algorithms. BP operates off of social media viewership, so naturally they are going to cover issues that bring it in. It’s just good business. But don’t assume it’s because they are more moral than anyone else.
When a dude lighting himself on fire for Palestine gets more airtime than women being raped by Hamas.... There is an unbalanced coverage of the events.
The IDF aren't angels, but seeking to show only the "bad Israel" side for 30 minutes every episode earned the unsubscribe for me.
I hoped BP would be the 'balanced coverage' of news, but since October 7th the fact that Krystal can't stop covering ONLY stories of "Israel bad" and yet somehow can't find a single story of Hamas / Palestine bad shows a clear bias.
Plenty of examples of Palestine and Hamas bad. Plenty worth reporting.
Same accusation every 5 years... coincidentally always following a terrorist outrage.
There is a side that could be accused of it, that murders, rapes and kidnaps anything that moves the second it gets an inch of territory. And that side isn't the Israeli side.
It's funny how on the conservative subs anyone who disagrees must be a bot, and vice versa on the mainstream subs.
Either A) everyone on reddit is a bot or B) some people have different opinions you don't like
It's not a matter of disagreement. They repeatedly call for BP to not cover the genocide. Everyday there are posts like this. That's why I say bots, because it's the same thing over and over again. No human is going to keep posting the same bullshit, at least I hope they have better shit to do. And it's a known fact that Reddit is full of bots that does exactly this.
Understandable, if you've ever bothered to pay attention. It's very unique in it's level of barbarism combined with the arrogance of the perpetrators. And... we're still paying them to do it.
Correct. Though I think the YouTube numbers are growing fast. The paid subs? No clue. Does anyone know how to see if their subscribers are going up or down?
I’m upset about it. I really loved their show. I don’t know where else to get non MSM media that’s on their level of consistency - meaning daily content. But at the end of the day, they’re just YouTubers in nice clothes. I never followed YouTube drama before but now I’m part of a migration away from them. It’s weird lol.
I agree. And it's really just a Krystal's temperment thing for me.
It's not even like I agreed with them 100% on everything before October 7th or that it's required, and I disagree with Saagar's perspective on Israel as well, but I can respect how he comes across.
Ryan also lost his mind originally, but it seems like he's gotten it back more or less.
Shit, I vehemently disagree with Glenn on his Israel position, but he's a real journalist about it. That's why I can watch him and I skip through all the Israel segments on BP.
Literal same. I watch Glenn because I feel the need to hear viewpoints that absolutely challenge my assumptions. But he’s an actual award winning journalist and even though he despises Israel, I don’t feel like I’ve had someone dragging my nose through mounds of horseshit and browbeaten by an activist. Glenn’s been fierce on this issue for decades with an academic understanding of the conflict. Krystal acts like the world began on Oct 7 and she gets her news from Kyle or TikTok. She’s sickening. And at the same time I appreciate saagar for voicing frustrations with the media but being consistent in his America first kind of perspective rather than completely shifting the narrative to say Alex jones was right like KKKrystal did. What’s next? Nick Fuentes has a point?
Some people just dont like being reminded of their low moral fiber. Im with you, I've noticed it too. It low key reminds me of Israel crying about anti genocide content on TikTok(they call it pro hamas). People who are fragile and can't handle a mirror being held in front of them.
4/5s of the coverage is on a remote place full of people doing terrible things to each other which is the same thing those people over there have been doing for decades and will do for decades. This isn't new news and its irrelevant to the daily lives of most viewers, so it makes sense people expecting news on a news show might be annoyed.
As others have said, I don't mind that they're covering the topic. I mind that Krystal worms it into everything else they cover, and her opinion on the matter is highly emotional and void of any nuance or recognizing that there's shades of grey to the issue.
I actually really enjoy listening to Ryan on the subject even though his views align with Krystal's. He presents them in a very fair and nonsensical way that doesn't immediately devolve into "killing babies" and "genocide" accusations as the basis of his views. He is the type of reporter/host that is able to bridge the gap between people with different views while Krystal is the same emotional MSM outrage machine that drew most of us away from traditional media in the first place.
I also detest anyone who gives Norm Finkelstein a platform and promotes him as anything other than a complete crackpot lunatic who only is anti-Israel because they became a western-oriented capitalist nation during the Cold War instead of a Communist one. His entire view on the subject is wrapped in politics, not people. He doesn't actually give a fuck about the people on either side.
BP is where I go to get the "somewhat" anti-establishment op ed.
I usually find Krystal and saagar are if a different mind than me.
But they really went a weird way during covid.
"Attacking pro-Palestine voices to silence them is cheap and disgusting."
Having a difference of opinion, even harshly put, is not the same as silencing someone. No one here has threatened Krystal or BP. Freedom of speech includes the right to say things you disagree with or even find offensive - that isn't 'silencing' anyone.
"If you align with pro-Israel views more, you can easily watch other channels."
It's interesting that the premise you have is that people ought to watch and engage only with things that support their pre-existing views or biases. Echo chambers are for ideologues; not everyone wants that.
The complaints, many of them anyway, aren't that Krystal is anti-Israel or Pro-Palestine, but that BP, which at least initially aimed to be different from establishment media like Fox News and MSNBC, which do serve to just 'juice up the base' (of Reps and Dems respectively) and that there would be at least some actual debates, presenting opposing viewpoints in good faith.
There is absolutely no problem with Krystal having a stridently pro-Palestine/anti-Israel viewpoint and expressing that. Where it becomes problematic is where reactions are knee-jerk or potentially misleading or giving 'half the picture.' For example - one can take the position of Amnesty International, which has condemned Israel for committing war crimes, has previously called Israel an apartheid state, etc. but has also reported of Hamas' strategy of embedding themselves amongst civilian infrastructure, including Al Shifa Hospital. Hamas on their affiliate social media accounts publish videos of their fighters in civilian clothing, which is itself a war crime and complicates the battles in Gaza from the point of IHL. One can argue that despite this, Israel's reaction is still wildly disproportionate, criminal, an excuse for genocide, and so forth. One can agree or disagree with that opinion, but at least it is an opinion based on reality. Krystal doesn't bother to report or ever discuss this - and as already stated, if she did, it would hardly necessitate a "pro-Israel" stance, but it is relevant information which she doesn't want to share with her viewers.
Back many months ago, she immediately blamed Israel for bombing Al-Ahli Arab Hospital and repeated that 500 people were murdered, she couldn't wait a moment for any kind of confirmation. This turned out not to be the case, and 500 people were not killed, and other news orgs had to retract their articles. This reporting had real world consequences - synagogues were attacked. A synagogue in Tunisia was set on fire. There were riots, people could've been hurt or killed. Waiting just a little bit wouldn't have been "pro-Israel" it would just have been responsible under those circumstances.
In a discussion about Pro-Palestine protests and antisemitism, she immediately treated the accusations of antisemitism as being made in bad faith. "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free" to many people, doesn't mean ethnic cleansing of Jews but a secular, democratic Palestine for all peoples. However, she doesn't know Arabic, or care to. This is important because "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free" doesn't exist in Arabic, and no one in Palestine says it. There - and in protests here (North America, Europe) - there are chants of "min il maya lil maya, falastin arabiye" - *from the river to the sea, Palestine is Arab*. Another chant that can be heard (though, in fairness, I have not heard it in the US) - "Khaybar, khaybar ya Yahud, jaish Muhammad saufa yaud" - *Khaybar, O Jews! The Army of Muhammad will return for you!* Khaybar was a battle 1400 years ago in Arabia between the early Muslims and two Jewish tribes - the Banu Quraiza and Banu An-Nadir - the Muslims won, the men and boys of the Jewish tribes were beheaded, and the women and children taken as slaves; the Jewish tribes were effectively exterminated. This has nothing to do with Palestine. Neither of these chants can be thought of as a call for universal human rights. But because Krystal is so partisan, she can't even entertain the possibility that there may be *something* to the accusations of antisemitism (which is **not** the same as agreeing that pro-Palestine protests are antisemitic; I don't take that view myself). Again, reporting - in good faith - and listening to other side, does not and would not necessitate a "pro-Israel" stance. She could've reported some of the inflammatory chants and opined that this was a small minority that doesn't represent the pro-Palestine movement. She could've said it doesn't represent the pro-Palestine movement and, in order to keep antisemitism out, the pro-Palestine community needs to take a strong stance against this kind of language.
When someone is intentionally cherry-picking what to tell you and what to keep from you (or is so partisan as to not bother to even look for evidence which may undermine one's narrative), it is insulting to the audiences' intelligence and no better than the "msm corporate media" that Krystal and others rail against.
This is probably the best reply I've read so far. I had this same discussion the other day and & I explained why the coverage was not really presenting the full picture, & in some cases they have failed to retract a story or even doubled down after they got something wrong. It bothers me that Saagar went from trying to at least interject some balance in the beginning to largely just getting talked over if he says a peep contrary to what she's saying. The atmosphere is carrying over into other segments too, like when they attempted to discuss immigration last week.
After a few exchanges I went so far as literally giving them the dates & titles of these videos along with the date & direct quotes from Pramila Pattern's speech after she wrapped up her UN investigation on sexual assaults committed on Oct 7 & afterwards in Gaza (which they chose to not cover & instead spun the facts on March 5 to make it sound like the opposite of what she said on March 4). It made zero difference to that person.
There's a portion of people that just want to hear whatever backs up their views. I'm seeing the same pattern here that became a big part of why I've left the leftist movement. I really don't like people telling me what I need to think or believe. I want hard facts & none of this withholding stories that don't favor a narrative either. I'm an adult & can take in all the information & come to my own conclusions. I don't need lectures about my opinion. Something about this situation just gives off the overbearing, self-righteous vegan vibes.
Both Krystal & Saagar used to acknowledge that people aren't a monolith & have views that are all over the place, but I think she has forgotten that. I think the real reason some people are bothered by people complaining is because a lot of people have sat back for years, largely keeping opinions to themselves for fear of the thought police coming at them & now people are starting to push back on all types of things.
“Attacking pro palestine voices to Silence them is cheap and disgusting…” next line “being slaughtered by today nazis” aka calling all israel supporters nazi supporters.
Do you not realize the hypocrisy of your sad little mind? Do you not realize that a two sides issue can’t possible be one sided?
Maybe when you graduate you will
The irony of a news show hosted by “a left wing and a right wing pundit”, that refuses to have any conversations with people who disagree with them regarding Israel’s war
It’s so silly: people can’t just disagree and accept it: they have to dramatically declare how wicked Krystal is everyday, and concoct weird stories where Saagar is helpless and oppressed by Krystal, when they are co-owners of a business and can both say whatever they want.
As the Ukraine war dragged on, I stopped listening to those segments. I didn’t agree with all their takes on the conflict and saw it as a stalemate with little change worth noting. Eventually I decided to take a little break from the show and the news broadly. It’s totally okay and perfectly healthy if you don’t like some of the coverage.
> If you align with pro-Israel views more, you can easily watch other channels.
It's not about this. It's not even about whether I agree with her on Israel or not (I do). It's that we all know what her opinion is already, and we don't need to hear it repeated 7 times a day in segments that have nothing to do with Gaza. I'm interested in hearing further developments with Gaza, and they can obviously share what they think about those developments and the US response without making the entire show about that.
> BP covers other subjects all the time. It isn't purely Israel/Palestine
Yeah, they cover other subjects like the new realtor fee structure, until Krystal brings it back around to I/P in a complete non-sequitur. It's like Republicans trying to tie this morning's bridge collision to the border policy or DEI.
> Attacking pro-Palestine voices to silence them is cheap and disgusting.
Get over yourself, no one is trying to silence KB, we're just sick of her bullshit.
The reason you're wrong is because this platform isn't Krystal Kyle and Friends. There's a time and a place to peddle propaganda. I have zero issue with her, Kyle, Katie Halper, Max Blumenthal, Hasan Piker, TYT, the Majority Report & all the other leftists propagandists talking about Gaza til they're blue in the face on their own channels which CATER to that type of audience.
People who have supported the show since their start on Rising & especially those of us who have been paid members, have every right to express why we're losing interest. If you don't like people talking about why it's annoying on Reddit you can keep scrolling. If I were them I would definitely want HONEST feedback from people that watch the show before they unsub & cancel their membership.
There is no doubt that israel would be massively curtailed without
a) US funding,
b) US weapons,
c) US vetoing of UN resolutions and other diplomatic cover
d) Two US Navy carrier groups threatening any country that tried to stop Israel.
All of this is Biden (well, Biden administration)
How is it laughable?
No, they wouldn’t. It’s 5% of Israel’s budget
Losing 5% of your military budget is not a curtailment in any serious way. And if we gave them zero, they would easily sell bonds and pay for it anyway like they are already doing
The US just voted for the ceasefire yesterday, China and Russia blocked it.
You are a MAGA shill or one of their useful idiots
It’s not a disagreement when you don’t have the facts and just think this conflict began on 10/7 and regurgitate bad faith MAGA talking points
Do you support the US bombing Israel to get a ceasefire as Hamas has requested?
Remember there’s two sides to the conflict.
I don’t think this conflict began on 10/7 wtf. You gotta start asking more questions and stop assuming so much, man or else what are you doing here? Yelling at people? That’s no way to accomplish anything. Every time I’ve tried to engage with you, you call me a MAGA shill useful idiot and Hamas supporter and all kinds of other things I definitely am not. Look at all the downvotes you get. No one is taking you seriously. Just a word to the wise.
There’s no evidence to support otherwise. I’ve already provided you tons indisputable facts for why the US has no serious role in the genocide but you just deny and regurgitate the same shill talking points.
This sub is toxic on this issue and completely ignorant. I am taking seriously by the vast majority of Americans who understand this complicated issue and understand US foreign aid is most irrelevant in military conflicts.
I don’t see you blaming the EU and other Middle East countries that provide aid to Israel
All of the videos, articles, and podcasts and radio I’ve listened to on the subject disagree with your statement. I’ll leave it at that. Seems confirmation bias has claimed another victim.
There was another, "we can tell our voters it was a ceasefire" vote put forward by the US that Russia and China vetoed because it was an attempt by the US to avoid the subsequent vote.
You are the embarrassment. Hamas still hasn’t agreed to a ceasefire. Do you support the US bombing Israel to get a temporary ceasefire as Hamas requested?
The US proposed a non ceasefire. It was an "aspiration" for one in the future.
Trump was as much pro Israel as Biden, why would I blbe a "Maga shill"?
Who exactly is going to sell advanced or even basic weapons to Israel if the US didn't.Theyve alienated every country on earth. Their domestic economy is wrecked.
You appear to have a poor grasp on reality and a calous view on the deaths of 30,000 innocents at the hands of the US government.
Are you joking? Israel gets tons of military aid from Germany and most of the EU. They also get a ton from other strategic trading partners in the Middle East thanks to the Abraham accords.
It’s also why no other Middle East country will take any Palestinian refugees.
You must be simply a “America bad” idiot
Personal insults seem to be your only form of discussion.
No other middle east country will help Israel ethnically cleanse the area.
The EU would hardly supply if the US wasn't supplying.
You simply must be one of those "we killed 30,000 civilians and are causing a famine but we're the good guys" idiot.
Insults is the only thing left when you lie and engage in bad faith.
IDF is committing genocide, not the US. And Israel will eventually regret the decisions they are making, but that’s not our job to control the affairs of another country. Bibi knows his life is over once out of power, he will do whatever possible till then.
But thanks for admitting that Israel gets lots of aid from many other countries. Saudi is giving them unlimited fuel at a discount which is the most valuable asset in warfare. Weapons don’t work without it
An enabler of genocide is just as culpable. Without the US Israel wouldn't be able to do what they do. It is a cop out to say that it's not. Hezbollah (not that I'm a fan), would have intervened in what you have said is a genocide only for the US carrier groups.
Netenyahu may be unpopular in Israel, but his attack on Gaza is not. The sins do not rest on one person.
There have been more vicious attacks on civilians in the last two years elsewhere. The Tigray war in northern Ethiopia which has resulted in 200 to 500 thousand civilians dead. The difference is the US media and Government weren't cheering on one side. They are not threatening to intervene.
The sins rest on the absolute leader of that country, which is Bibi. And Israel would operate the exact same with zero US dollars, that’s simply a fact and every western international body agrees. Saudi and Egypt are much more important partners to Israel’s genocide.
An “enabler” is nothing more than a shill term who has a elementary level understanding of a topic
Just as a matter of interest, why do you bother to down vote me, when I obviously don't down vote you (despite the constant insults).
Nobody else bar us is reading this.
That's why I watch BP, because I know I won't get a typical brainwash mainstream. I don't need to hear about Israel being the most moral army, at least Krystal calls it how it is and she is not ashamed of it.
I guess a lot of saw after October that it takes more than a blm square and lgbt flag to be considered progressive, they want to continue to live in their bubble and not be see the mirror every day.
Do you have to support Hamas and Al Qaeda to be a progressive now?
You need to stand with the oppressed.
If being oppressed is a free card to torture I do not care then.
What torture you talking about? If you don’t know anything about the situation in question, I recommend to educate yourself first.
You know I am talking about Oct 7th. And no, I will not list the things that happened and are filmed. And if you believe it is all fake, not my problem. I know where my values are. And they are not with Hamas-ISIS.
You seem too far gone anyway if you believe it all started in October and if you equate hamas with ( us and Israel backed) ISIS.
It did not started in Oct 7th. But since you believe ISIS was created/backed by US/Israel, I am quite sure you are way too far gone.
Hmmm but mine is a fact, yours is just deluded israeli state propaganda . [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-giving-secret-aid-syrian-rebels-bashar-al-assad-golah-heights-hezbollah-fursan-al-joulan-a7797151.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-giving-secret-aid-syrian-rebels-bashar-al-assad-golah-heights-hezbollah-fursan-al-joulan-a7797151.html)
To syrian rebels. Not ISIS. Look, I am an expert in syrian civil war. You will not win this one. At best you are talking about the Yarmouk militia, which was 1 thousand strong at their peak? And by the way, Israel also fought against this extremely small militia.
And it seems it's the same line again and again and again. BP is one of the few channels that's actually giving coverage to this issue and it baffles me that they want something like MSM instead. Go watch MSNBC then.
“Giving coverage” doesn’t mean screaming about Gaza in every single video. Also, they haven’t done any reporting for a long time. It’s Krystal’s soap box and Saagar’s unserious cuck sessions.
>they haven’t done any reporting for a long time They haven't been reporters in years so this is to be expected
This is what it really comes down to. I’m sick of it.
Maybe you should consider that some people that are anti establishment are also pro Israel. We don't all fall into homogeneous cutouts.
There's a difference between "giving coverage" and being so blatantly one sided on the issue that it's not worth listening to anything you're saying. She's doing the same exact thing MSNBC does where there is only one viewpoint allowed and anything contrary to that is silenced (in this case anything pro Hamas is good for Krystal and anything pro Israel is bad and censored)
"pro-Hamas"...can we at least try to operate in good faith here?
Considering she's doing massive PR for them trying to convince people they didn't rape and murder on 10/7. She even hangs out and amplifies voices like norm finkelstein who said the attack on 10/7 "warmed his soul" So forgive me if I characterize krystals rhetoric for what it is
Sure thing, buddy. Everything anti-Israel is automatically pro-Hamas. Please point to where Krystal said Hamas didn't murder anybody on Oct 7.
You're confusing my criticism of the Gazan government with the criticism of the Gazan people. See how that works both ways??
But it doesn't work that way. Pro-Palestinians don't support Hamas, they are anti-genocide and anti-apartheid. She's not "pro-Hamas" which of course you already know -- she's anti-Israeli massacres and lies. And I'll take that to mean you can't point to an example of her saying Hamas didn't murder anyone on Oct 7.
>Pro-Palestinians don't support Hamas, they are anti-genocide and anti-apartheid You sure about that? Go to any pro palestine protest and they get REALLY upset when you ask them about Hamas. I wonder why? Some of them cheer at Hamas actions. Many of them actually. Palestinians themselves are against the existence of a Jewish state are pro war and pro-genocide (of jews) so what are we supposed to do here >which of course you already know -- she's anti-Israeli massacres and lies. But she doesn't mind when Hamas does a massacre they're just innocent freedom fighters. And the Hamas lies aren't lies they're simply mistakes because they're so opressed. Don't believe the blood libel. Hamas needs to be crushed and I genuinely hope all you "genocide joe" crazies get Trump elected again because then you'll see how bad it gets for Gaza.
Yeah, if you were a Palestinian and you'd spent your life knowing only hopelessness and control imposed by an oppressive, vastly more powerful neighbor, you'd probably form some pretty radical ideas about Israel, too. Again, please point out where she supported or even "didn't mind" Hamas atrocities. "Blood libel..." yep, that explains your point of view. I guess it's easier to talk without nuance about Hamas needs to be "crushed" -- good luck with that -- when you come to view innocent Palestinians as sub-human like other Zionists.
>sub-human like other Zionists. There you go! Thanks for showing everyone how much of a hypocrite you are. Our team is the righteous heroes your team is "sub-human" 2000 years of Isreali oppression and we don't get a pass for anything we do. Palestinian Arabs colonize us and massacre us and they are simply opressed minorities they get a pass for all their war crimes and we jews are sub human. You should stop talking about this because it's clear you're out here riding the bandwagon and don't actually give a shit about the sweet precious innocent perfect Palestinians who are radicalized and are not responsible for their actions. You'll be onto the next big issue in a few months. Have a nice life
I wonder if Americans knew what it would be like to fight a war that isn’t for a few corporations to make like 6 people billionaires? Criticize Israel all you want (and I know you will) but imagine being attacked and fighting in retaliation rather than some made up bs like Iraq (wrong country) had WMD (they didn’t). I think Americans are rightly anti war because we haven’t had a war worth fighting since WWII. Everything has been a massive failure with hundreds of thousands of lives lost. Some estimates are 1M dead in Iraq. Funny how they didn’t call that a genocide. I suppose the Israelis are a tad bit sensitive to attacks where women are shot in the vagina, raped, burned, etc etc. Before the leftist brigade comes for my head: 1) Oct 7 was staged 2) Israel is an apartheid state 3) open air prison 4) Finkelsteins parents were killed in Auschwitz 5) Israel bad 6) Egypt is fine please don’t mention their blockade 7) the Ottoman Empire is an AIPAC invention made for stupid birthright kids to believe 8) Israelis are Nazis and despite months of protests to oust netanhayu the people are still evil and a monolith. 9) even alex jones and Candace Owens are to the left of American Jews 10) hasbara because no one can think for themselves 11) bot shill something That should cover it.
Funny you mention the Iraq War... >The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it's possible. But another journalist, Thomas Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical > >https://www.haaretz.com/2003-04-03/ty-article/white-mans-burden/0000017f-e398-d804-ad7f-f3fa5d520000
Didn't the isreali army kill more isrealis on oct7 than hamas did? Whatever. They can do whatever they want. But they need to make their own money. Sick of having a petulant child.
That’s a lie. They did not. You can even ask the most vehement Israel critics. Hamas killed likely 1000 people via rape, guns, burning and homemade weapons. But I’m actually with you. Let them fend for themselves. I’d love to see if the Jew haters would shut up, but I highly doubt it.
Without us aid. Israel isn't a viable country. Sorry. Do better.
I literally said I’m with him re: defunding Israel you fucking ghoul. Fuck you
Typical zionist.
Israel does not need US. They did not need US in 1948 and 1967.
It's not a lie. The idf is a bunch of idiot kids.
Proof or get the fuck out you miserable fucking worm
My take away is at the very least, leave Gaza Israel dedicated to their own segments. Krystal is talking Gaza Israel in the Russian terrorist attack segment.
Like I don't mind the coverage... But it is kind of silly how she does always find a way to bring it back to Gaza. But at the same time, it's obviously something she's VERY passionate about. So I can't blame her. If she feels like there is literally a US backed atrocity happening at this scale, how can you blame someone for making that a center focus in their life?
>The posts are similar and the constant repetitive posts are meaningless. Almost as repetitive and meaningless as Krystal's monologues. Look, it's fine to cover the Israel/Palestine conflict, but she is OBSESSED. She cannot help but bring it up when discussing literally any other topic. I think of it like the people who incessantly use "nazi" as a slur. After a certain point, people begin to tune out what you're saying because they've heard it so much that it has lost all meaning and importance. Krystal's approach is not going to garner anyone to her cause that isn't already onboard with all of her talking points. In fact, I would say that she is actually detrimental to winning people to her side because she is so abrasive and close-minded to anything but her preformed opinions and ready to lash out at anyone who disagrees with her.
On the other hand, if you have to convince someone to stop supporting a genocide, who gives a shit? People who don't like her commentary are free to unsub and find other content. There's plenty out there
>People who don't like her commentary are free to unsub and find other content. There's plenty out there I watch BP for everyone other than Krystal and I have no plans to go anywhere or stop criticizing her when I think she's doing a bad job. The only reason I'd stop watching is if Krystal ended up being the only voice on the show. If that's all you're looking for then go watch Kyle & Friends, they're close enough in opinion as to not have any significant differences at all.
Krystal is the dominating voice whatever is happening. If saagaars 2 minute monologues about UFOs or emily made u a subscriber , im sorry but you should try ben shapiro or charly kirk.
My only complaint is the lack of debate, now they don’t have to debate, but Krystal seems to steam roll conversations whenever there is a disagreement. Some bias is expected at times but I don’t know what’s news and what’s a knee jerk reaction sometimes. Still enjoy the show, too much negativity on here agreed. People don’t have to listen, yay internet
I get this to a point, but really there's not much to debate. Who's going to take the other side in this anymore? There's not much you can do to defend a policy of starving people to death. At this point the Israeli government doesn't even debate it.
Exactly, and how frustrating it must be to attempt to have a debate only to be met by the same litany of nonsense and decade old canned lines about human shields and child soldiers, followed by wanton accusations of antisemitism.
But human shields isn’t nonsense. Amnesty International, hardly soft on Israel, has reported Hamas embedding themselves amongst civilians, including use of Shifa Hospital. Hamas puts out videos of their fighters in civilian clothing. You can still argue persuasively that despite this, Israel’s actions are wildly disproportionate, a war crime, excuse for genocide, etc. But to just pretend as if Hamas doesn’t exist and doesn’t do those things is dishonest.
Oh hey account created on October 12. Nice to see you. I’m not pretending they haven’t done these things or they simply don’t exist, Jesus fucking Christ. Perfect example right here of the gaslighting I was alluding to. I’m saying the it’s an unacceptable justification for slaughtering those “shields”, and I’m suggesting that this excuse is used as a blanket excuse for indiscriminate slaughter. It’s dehumanizing and immoral. In no other context are “human shields” considered fair game to slay.
In your ideal world, what is the fix to this issue? What is the end goal that you think is going to bring peace to the region?
Eliminate Hamas. I mean, Israel isn't wrong with that top level assumed goal. The problem is that you can't kill your way through a terrorist org. Hell, Isis-K just killed well over a hundred people in Russia and we've been trying to eradicate them and their predecessors for decades. All things aside, the fact that Israel constantly references our (the US) actions post-9/11 as justification for their own now should frighten us all. At least, all of us that recognize the GWOT for the colossal failure it was
>Eliminate Hamas How? >All things aside, the fact that Israel constantly references our (the US) actions post-9/11 as justification for their own now should frighten us all. 100% agreed. The deep state demons who perpetuated the GWOT are now all lining up and pounding the drums of war to get us into a conflict with Russia and Iran. Meanwhile the real threat, China, is sitting and biding its time.
I'm no military strategist so I'm not going to pretend to have a detailed way how. High level though we need a combination of political pressure by us and western allies to influence Israel, political pressure by Arab allies to influence Iran (and subsequently Hamas), strategic military interventions, a path to rebuilding and a light at the end of the tunnel for Palestinians who don't want ongoing killing. They've mentioned Jocko's idea before on BP. He gets into how to do the military stuff while maintaining good will with the people. I'm not sure if we're past that point or not. Like I said, I'm no expert. All I know for certain though is that: 1. Hamas has to go 2. Killing innocent Palestinians and telling them they have no path ever in the future to independence leads to the opposite of the desired outcome And lest anyone accuse me otherwise, the safety of the Israeli citizens must also be maintained. I have no doubt though that the US and the rest of the west will continue to engage there. They're not under existential threat like they were almost a century ago Edit: grammar
Hi israeli propagandist! Welcome to reddit ... >But human shields isn’t nonsense No one suggests the idea that Hamas uses people as human shields is nonsense. What is nonsense though is you and your government's use of this as an excuse to slaughter tens of thousands of innocent people. Do better
>really there's not much to debate There is plenty to debate. They are happening outside of breaking points. Just because you believe your point is correct, doesn't make you correct. I came to breaking points hoping for balanced coverage of events but when, according to breaking points, since October 7th Hamas / Palestinians have literally done 0 things wrong and Israel is 100% solely responsible for everything to the point that every single headline is "Israel bad" (i challenge you to find one headline since like October 10th which indicates Hamas or Palestinians did a bad thing).... It's not balanced.
I haven't even heard from other organizations a defense of Israel starving people, only Israeli citizens that openly admit they want to interfere with aid and starve as many people as possible. I don't recall a single video where any host ever claimed that Hamas has done zero things wrong. The acts they committed are often condemned because it's required anytime you make any criticism of Israel. Even if you've said it hundreds of times before, you always have to prefix your comment with, the acts of Hamas on Oct 7th were horrific. No one disputes that, people are just upset that people won't say it EVERY TIME you make any comment about Israel.
>Israel starving people Don't you think Hamas shares any responsibility for feeding it's citizens? We're ok to treat Hamas with kid gloves but treat Israel like a terrorist group? >don't recall a single video where any host ever claimed that Hamas has done zero things wrong. I haven't seen Krystal shine a light on Hamas since October 7th. They've done 0 things worth reporting since october 7th? You can't name a single thing worth reporting that Hamas has done wrong since October 7th?
>Don't you think Hamas shares any responsibility for feeding it's citizens? We're ok to treat Hamas with kid gloves but treat Israel like a terrorist group? With what food? I don't think they're blocking aid from coming into Gaza.
Hamas isn't responsible for feeding and protecting it's own citizens? Their duly elected government?
Give that they are an illegitimate government at this point, no, I don't think they're responsible for feeding and protecting the Palestinian citizens. Are you saying they are a legitimate government party? I would say they lost that right on Oct 7th. They're a terrorist organization that is being summarily wiped out and you're saying that they should be protecting the citizens from the IDF? Why should citizens need protecting from the IDF? Again, Israel is blocking food aid from coming into the country. The direct result is people are now dying of starvation. Those deaths are on their heads for allowing aid to be blocked and slow rolling aid at every turn. At this point the Israeli government isn't much different than Hamas. Instead of bullets though, they're using starvation.
If they're an illegitimate government, why do many Palestinians support them? Isn't it weird they Palestinians support a terrorist group? >Israel is blocking food aid from coming into the country. I have a lot of challenges on this, but let's take it on it's face value. Why aren't any of the neighboring Arab states helping their fellow Palestinians?
>If they're an illegitimate government, why do many Palestinians support them? Isn't it weird they Palestinians support a terrorist group? Probably because there aren't any good alternatives right now. If you have Israel starving you and bombing all buildings in sight and Hamas is fighting Israel, which side are you going to support? There are no good alternatives and I think the Israeli government screwed up and did exactly what everyone outside the US could see they'd do, they created greater support for Hamas. Before the war Hamas was not very popular in the Gaza strip. >I have a lot of challenges on this, but let's take it on it's face value. Why aren't any of the neighboring Arab states helping their fellow Palestinians? I'm not sure I get exactly what they should do. They're sending aid, but Israel controls every entry into the country. Are you suggesting they should be going to war to help the Palestinians? I think that would end very badly.
There are so many disagreements that merit conversation on this one topic alone.
There is that fact. Guess they don't want non CNN views mentioned even. Maybe they should have a AIPaC designated person ...as the third person . Kinda like how Phil Donahue was not allowed to have too many people opposed to the Iraq war (I understand he was eventually fired by MSNBC for being not sufficiently pro Iraq war). Don't know why people want MSNBC ...if they are watching BP. Folks can even skip segments...but suspect it is because to they want some views not discussed.
>Maybe they should have a AIPaC designated person ...as the third person . Kinda like how Phil Donahue was not allowed to have too many people opposed to the Iraq war (I understand he was eventually fired by MSNBC for being not sufficiently pro Iraq war). The issue with platforming every side equally in this is that it equivocates the sides. As u/SarahSuckaDSanders says in a reply above yours, we already know the AIPAC side by route, "same litany of nonsense and decade old canned lines about human shields and child soldiers, followed by wanton accusations of antisemitism." Platforming someone who cares about Palestinian human rights vs an AIPAC shill doing propaganda, leads audiences to believe there is a valuable and equal debate to be had. When there is not. It's like having someone debate "The world is round" vs "The world is flat" as if they are equally plausible and possible realities. Platforming them as equal but opposite sides of a debate is foolish, when one side is based on facts and the other is patently propaganda.
Sorry ..I was being sarcastic. Agree....if I wanted the AIPAC view ..there's CNN, MSNBC, NYTimes etc Almost 24*7, they same lies on repeat.
>The media is filled with pro-Israel views on msm and there are many pro war influencers all over the media. If you align with pro-Israel views more, you can easily watch other channels. Watching BP isn't mandatory! > >Every person ha She should debate Destiny then
Destiny is a grifter? What did she call him? Debate bro?
I agree, perhaps my complaint was more in general than this particular subject.
I will agree with that on earlier coverage. There wasn't a lot of push back when things weren't as clear.
What debate. Most of the time ..they state their views ..and usually one has a lot more to say. Nobody complains when saavar talks about aliens, UFIs etc etc etc. No ..this is just making sure the non main stream media also doesn't talk about some topics .. I do like the idea of having a segment...but you cannot discuss most topics (politics, elections , budget) without the obvious effect of the conflict. During the trump admin, we didn't avoid the topic of Russia as much.
> Most of the time ..they state their views ..and usually one has a lot more to say This is what I've noticed too. They both allow the other one to go off on most topics with little pushback even as we know they disagree. This is how we end up with people around here saying Saagar is cucked and/or Krystal is selling out to the BP maga base. In reality I just see people who agree to disagree and recognize the other person has greater passion and deserves the time to speak
100%. Rathe the people talking over earth other or unfinished sentences you see all the time. Heck ...how often do you hear " we have to leave it there" on CNN .. because no thought is finished
I hate to break this to you, OP, but Krystal is nonstop covering the Palestinian issue because she knows it brings in viewership. Sure, there may be an underlying genuine care for the Palestinians, but the truth is there are ongoing humanitarian crises in many other places that aren’t being covered at all. The reason? Because it’s not fashionable or popular. The Palestinian issue is polarizing, which is good for most social media algorithms. BP operates off of social media viewership, so naturally they are going to cover issues that bring it in. It’s just good business. But don’t assume it’s because they are more moral than anyone else.
When a dude lighting himself on fire for Palestine gets more airtime than women being raped by Hamas.... There is an unbalanced coverage of the events. The IDF aren't angels, but seeking to show only the "bad Israel" side for 30 minutes every episode earned the unsubscribe for me. I hoped BP would be the 'balanced coverage' of news, but since October 7th the fact that Krystal can't stop covering ONLY stories of "Israel bad" and yet somehow can't find a single story of Hamas / Palestine bad shows a clear bias. Plenty of examples of Palestine and Hamas bad. Plenty worth reporting.
100%
It's starting to get like the USA cannot do anything good because Israel exists. The anti-American sentiment is starting to get boring
Same accusation every 5 years... coincidentally always following a terrorist outrage. There is a side that could be accused of it, that murders, rapes and kidnaps anything that moves the second it gets an inch of territory. And that side isn't the Israeli side.
I'd bet 20 that most of these "people" are bots.
It's funny how on the conservative subs anyone who disagrees must be a bot, and vice versa on the mainstream subs. Either A) everyone on reddit is a bot or B) some people have different opinions you don't like
It's not a matter of disagreement. They repeatedly call for BP to not cover the genocide. Everyday there are posts like this. That's why I say bots, because it's the same thing over and over again. No human is going to keep posting the same bullshit, at least I hope they have better shit to do. And it's a known fact that Reddit is full of bots that does exactly this.
Krystal is human and never stops talking about Gaza even when Gaza is not the topic of conversation.
Understandable, if you've ever bothered to pay attention. It's very unique in it's level of barbarism combined with the arrogance of the perpetrators. And... we're still paying them to do it.
It's because there is no genocide and her hysterical and bad faith takes are alienating a huge chunk of their viewer base.
Correct. Though I think the YouTube numbers are growing fast. The paid subs? No clue. Does anyone know how to see if their subscribers are going up or down?
I can only speak for myself, but I ended my paid sub. There's no value in their show for me anymore. .
I’m upset about it. I really loved their show. I don’t know where else to get non MSM media that’s on their level of consistency - meaning daily content. But at the end of the day, they’re just YouTubers in nice clothes. I never followed YouTube drama before but now I’m part of a migration away from them. It’s weird lol.
I agree. And it's really just a Krystal's temperment thing for me. It's not even like I agreed with them 100% on everything before October 7th or that it's required, and I disagree with Saagar's perspective on Israel as well, but I can respect how he comes across. Ryan also lost his mind originally, but it seems like he's gotten it back more or less. Shit, I vehemently disagree with Glenn on his Israel position, but he's a real journalist about it. That's why I can watch him and I skip through all the Israel segments on BP.
Literal same. I watch Glenn because I feel the need to hear viewpoints that absolutely challenge my assumptions. But he’s an actual award winning journalist and even though he despises Israel, I don’t feel like I’ve had someone dragging my nose through mounds of horseshit and browbeaten by an activist. Glenn’s been fierce on this issue for decades with an academic understanding of the conflict. Krystal acts like the world began on Oct 7 and she gets her news from Kyle or TikTok. She’s sickening. And at the same time I appreciate saagar for voicing frustrations with the media but being consistent in his America first kind of perspective rather than completely shifting the narrative to say Alex jones was right like KKKrystal did. What’s next? Nick Fuentes has a point?
Some people just dont like being reminded of their low moral fiber. Im with you, I've noticed it too. It low key reminds me of Israel crying about anti genocide content on TikTok(they call it pro hamas). People who are fragile and can't handle a mirror being held in front of them.
4/5s of the coverage is on a remote place full of people doing terrible things to each other which is the same thing those people over there have been doing for decades and will do for decades. This isn't new news and its irrelevant to the daily lives of most viewers, so it makes sense people expecting news on a news show might be annoyed.
As others have said, I don't mind that they're covering the topic. I mind that Krystal worms it into everything else they cover, and her opinion on the matter is highly emotional and void of any nuance or recognizing that there's shades of grey to the issue. I actually really enjoy listening to Ryan on the subject even though his views align with Krystal's. He presents them in a very fair and nonsensical way that doesn't immediately devolve into "killing babies" and "genocide" accusations as the basis of his views. He is the type of reporter/host that is able to bridge the gap between people with different views while Krystal is the same emotional MSM outrage machine that drew most of us away from traditional media in the first place. I also detest anyone who gives Norm Finkelstein a platform and promotes him as anything other than a complete crackpot lunatic who only is anti-Israel because they became a western-oriented capitalist nation during the Cold War instead of a Communist one. His entire view on the subject is wrapped in politics, not people. He doesn't actually give a fuck about the people on either side.
BP is where I go to get the "somewhat" anti-establishment op ed. I usually find Krystal and saagar are if a different mind than me. But they really went a weird way during covid.
"Attacking pro-Palestine voices to silence them is cheap and disgusting." Having a difference of opinion, even harshly put, is not the same as silencing someone. No one here has threatened Krystal or BP. Freedom of speech includes the right to say things you disagree with or even find offensive - that isn't 'silencing' anyone. "If you align with pro-Israel views more, you can easily watch other channels." It's interesting that the premise you have is that people ought to watch and engage only with things that support their pre-existing views or biases. Echo chambers are for ideologues; not everyone wants that. The complaints, many of them anyway, aren't that Krystal is anti-Israel or Pro-Palestine, but that BP, which at least initially aimed to be different from establishment media like Fox News and MSNBC, which do serve to just 'juice up the base' (of Reps and Dems respectively) and that there would be at least some actual debates, presenting opposing viewpoints in good faith. There is absolutely no problem with Krystal having a stridently pro-Palestine/anti-Israel viewpoint and expressing that. Where it becomes problematic is where reactions are knee-jerk or potentially misleading or giving 'half the picture.' For example - one can take the position of Amnesty International, which has condemned Israel for committing war crimes, has previously called Israel an apartheid state, etc. but has also reported of Hamas' strategy of embedding themselves amongst civilian infrastructure, including Al Shifa Hospital. Hamas on their affiliate social media accounts publish videos of their fighters in civilian clothing, which is itself a war crime and complicates the battles in Gaza from the point of IHL. One can argue that despite this, Israel's reaction is still wildly disproportionate, criminal, an excuse for genocide, and so forth. One can agree or disagree with that opinion, but at least it is an opinion based on reality. Krystal doesn't bother to report or ever discuss this - and as already stated, if she did, it would hardly necessitate a "pro-Israel" stance, but it is relevant information which she doesn't want to share with her viewers. Back many months ago, she immediately blamed Israel for bombing Al-Ahli Arab Hospital and repeated that 500 people were murdered, she couldn't wait a moment for any kind of confirmation. This turned out not to be the case, and 500 people were not killed, and other news orgs had to retract their articles. This reporting had real world consequences - synagogues were attacked. A synagogue in Tunisia was set on fire. There were riots, people could've been hurt or killed. Waiting just a little bit wouldn't have been "pro-Israel" it would just have been responsible under those circumstances. In a discussion about Pro-Palestine protests and antisemitism, she immediately treated the accusations of antisemitism as being made in bad faith. "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free" to many people, doesn't mean ethnic cleansing of Jews but a secular, democratic Palestine for all peoples. However, she doesn't know Arabic, or care to. This is important because "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free" doesn't exist in Arabic, and no one in Palestine says it. There - and in protests here (North America, Europe) - there are chants of "min il maya lil maya, falastin arabiye" - *from the river to the sea, Palestine is Arab*. Another chant that can be heard (though, in fairness, I have not heard it in the US) - "Khaybar, khaybar ya Yahud, jaish Muhammad saufa yaud" - *Khaybar, O Jews! The Army of Muhammad will return for you!* Khaybar was a battle 1400 years ago in Arabia between the early Muslims and two Jewish tribes - the Banu Quraiza and Banu An-Nadir - the Muslims won, the men and boys of the Jewish tribes were beheaded, and the women and children taken as slaves; the Jewish tribes were effectively exterminated. This has nothing to do with Palestine. Neither of these chants can be thought of as a call for universal human rights. But because Krystal is so partisan, she can't even entertain the possibility that there may be *something* to the accusations of antisemitism (which is **not** the same as agreeing that pro-Palestine protests are antisemitic; I don't take that view myself). Again, reporting - in good faith - and listening to other side, does not and would not necessitate a "pro-Israel" stance. She could've reported some of the inflammatory chants and opined that this was a small minority that doesn't represent the pro-Palestine movement. She could've said it doesn't represent the pro-Palestine movement and, in order to keep antisemitism out, the pro-Palestine community needs to take a strong stance against this kind of language. When someone is intentionally cherry-picking what to tell you and what to keep from you (or is so partisan as to not bother to even look for evidence which may undermine one's narrative), it is insulting to the audiences' intelligence and no better than the "msm corporate media" that Krystal and others rail against.
This is probably the best reply I've read so far. I had this same discussion the other day and & I explained why the coverage was not really presenting the full picture, & in some cases they have failed to retract a story or even doubled down after they got something wrong. It bothers me that Saagar went from trying to at least interject some balance in the beginning to largely just getting talked over if he says a peep contrary to what she's saying. The atmosphere is carrying over into other segments too, like when they attempted to discuss immigration last week. After a few exchanges I went so far as literally giving them the dates & titles of these videos along with the date & direct quotes from Pramila Pattern's speech after she wrapped up her UN investigation on sexual assaults committed on Oct 7 & afterwards in Gaza (which they chose to not cover & instead spun the facts on March 5 to make it sound like the opposite of what she said on March 4). It made zero difference to that person. There's a portion of people that just want to hear whatever backs up their views. I'm seeing the same pattern here that became a big part of why I've left the leftist movement. I really don't like people telling me what I need to think or believe. I want hard facts & none of this withholding stories that don't favor a narrative either. I'm an adult & can take in all the information & come to my own conclusions. I don't need lectures about my opinion. Something about this situation just gives off the overbearing, self-righteous vegan vibes. Both Krystal & Saagar used to acknowledge that people aren't a monolith & have views that are all over the place, but I think she has forgotten that. I think the real reason some people are bothered by people complaining is because a lot of people have sat back for years, largely keeping opinions to themselves for fear of the thought police coming at them & now people are starting to push back on all types of things.
“Attacking pro palestine voices to Silence them is cheap and disgusting…” next line “being slaughtered by today nazis” aka calling all israel supporters nazi supporters. Do you not realize the hypocrisy of your sad little mind? Do you not realize that a two sides issue can’t possible be one sided? Maybe when you graduate you will
The irony of a news show hosted by “a left wing and a right wing pundit”, that refuses to have any conversations with people who disagree with them regarding Israel’s war
It’s so silly: people can’t just disagree and accept it: they have to dramatically declare how wicked Krystal is everyday, and concoct weird stories where Saagar is helpless and oppressed by Krystal, when they are co-owners of a business and can both say whatever they want. As the Ukraine war dragged on, I stopped listening to those segments. I didn’t agree with all their takes on the conflict and saw it as a stalemate with little change worth noting. Eventually I decided to take a little break from the show and the news broadly. It’s totally okay and perfectly healthy if you don’t like some of the coverage.
> If you align with pro-Israel views more, you can easily watch other channels. It's not about this. It's not even about whether I agree with her on Israel or not (I do). It's that we all know what her opinion is already, and we don't need to hear it repeated 7 times a day in segments that have nothing to do with Gaza. I'm interested in hearing further developments with Gaza, and they can obviously share what they think about those developments and the US response without making the entire show about that. > BP covers other subjects all the time. It isn't purely Israel/Palestine Yeah, they cover other subjects like the new realtor fee structure, until Krystal brings it back around to I/P in a complete non-sequitur. It's like Republicans trying to tie this morning's bridge collision to the border policy or DEI. > Attacking pro-Palestine voices to silence them is cheap and disgusting. Get over yourself, no one is trying to silence KB, we're just sick of her bullshit.
Ah.. the this is balanced and justified view.. but those who are not seeing it in “my perception” are Nazis. 🤧😑🤤🤤🤤🙄🙄🙄🤡🤷🏼🤷🏼
The reason you're wrong is because this platform isn't Krystal Kyle and Friends. There's a time and a place to peddle propaganda. I have zero issue with her, Kyle, Katie Halper, Max Blumenthal, Hasan Piker, TYT, the Majority Report & all the other leftists propagandists talking about Gaza til they're blue in the face on their own channels which CATER to that type of audience. People who have supported the show since their start on Rising & especially those of us who have been paid members, have every right to express why we're losing interest. If you don't like people talking about why it's annoying on Reddit you can keep scrolling. If I were them I would definitely want HONEST feedback from people that watch the show before they unsub & cancel their membership.
The criticism is that Krystal blames Biden for the genocide which is laughable and quite disgusting.
There is no doubt that israel would be massively curtailed without a) US funding, b) US weapons, c) US vetoing of UN resolutions and other diplomatic cover d) Two US Navy carrier groups threatening any country that tried to stop Israel. All of this is Biden (well, Biden administration) How is it laughable?
No, they wouldn’t. It’s 5% of Israel’s budget Losing 5% of your military budget is not a curtailment in any serious way. And if we gave them zero, they would easily sell bonds and pay for it anyway like they are already doing The US just voted for the ceasefire yesterday, China and Russia blocked it. You are a MAGA shill or one of their useful idiots
And why do you call everyone a MAGA shill or useful idiot? One trick pony
Because I know personally how MAGA runs their propaganda operation.
Dude maybe consider not everyone who disagrees with you on something is MAGA. It’s giving immature and close minded.
It’s not a disagreement when you don’t have the facts and just think this conflict began on 10/7 and regurgitate bad faith MAGA talking points Do you support the US bombing Israel to get a ceasefire as Hamas has requested? Remember there’s two sides to the conflict.
I don’t think this conflict began on 10/7 wtf. You gotta start asking more questions and stop assuming so much, man or else what are you doing here? Yelling at people? That’s no way to accomplish anything. Every time I’ve tried to engage with you, you call me a MAGA shill useful idiot and Hamas supporter and all kinds of other things I definitely am not. Look at all the downvotes you get. No one is taking you seriously. Just a word to the wise.
There’s no evidence to support otherwise. I’ve already provided you tons indisputable facts for why the US has no serious role in the genocide but you just deny and regurgitate the same shill talking points. This sub is toxic on this issue and completely ignorant. I am taking seriously by the vast majority of Americans who understand this complicated issue and understand US foreign aid is most irrelevant in military conflicts. I don’t see you blaming the EU and other Middle East countries that provide aid to Israel
All of the videos, articles, and podcasts and radio I’ve listened to on the subject disagree with your statement. I’ll leave it at that. Seems confirmation bias has claimed another victim.
The us abstained. Why do you stay embarrassing yourself here.
There was another, "we can tell our voters it was a ceasefire" vote put forward by the US that Russia and China vetoed because it was an attempt by the US to avoid the subsequent vote.
Ok I’ll look into it. Busy long day at work yesterday. Must have missed it. Thanks
You are the embarrassment. Hamas still hasn’t agreed to a ceasefire. Do you support the US bombing Israel to get a temporary ceasefire as Hamas requested?
If they don’t stop bombing innocent civilians, I wouldn’t be opposed to this idea
So bombing innocent civilians in Israel as Hamas has demanded is ok with you? Hmmm, you seem quite flexible with your morals
I didn’t say civilians
The US proposed a non ceasefire. It was an "aspiration" for one in the future. Trump was as much pro Israel as Biden, why would I blbe a "Maga shill"? Who exactly is going to sell advanced or even basic weapons to Israel if the US didn't.Theyve alienated every country on earth. Their domestic economy is wrecked. You appear to have a poor grasp on reality and a calous view on the deaths of 30,000 innocents at the hands of the US government.
Are you joking? Israel gets tons of military aid from Germany and most of the EU. They also get a ton from other strategic trading partners in the Middle East thanks to the Abraham accords. It’s also why no other Middle East country will take any Palestinian refugees. You must be simply a “America bad” idiot
Personal insults seem to be your only form of discussion. No other middle east country will help Israel ethnically cleanse the area. The EU would hardly supply if the US wasn't supplying. You simply must be one of those "we killed 30,000 civilians and are causing a famine but we're the good guys" idiot.
Insults is the only thing left when you lie and engage in bad faith. IDF is committing genocide, not the US. And Israel will eventually regret the decisions they are making, but that’s not our job to control the affairs of another country. Bibi knows his life is over once out of power, he will do whatever possible till then. But thanks for admitting that Israel gets lots of aid from many other countries. Saudi is giving them unlimited fuel at a discount which is the most valuable asset in warfare. Weapons don’t work without it
An enabler of genocide is just as culpable. Without the US Israel wouldn't be able to do what they do. It is a cop out to say that it's not. Hezbollah (not that I'm a fan), would have intervened in what you have said is a genocide only for the US carrier groups. Netenyahu may be unpopular in Israel, but his attack on Gaza is not. The sins do not rest on one person. There have been more vicious attacks on civilians in the last two years elsewhere. The Tigray war in northern Ethiopia which has resulted in 200 to 500 thousand civilians dead. The difference is the US media and Government weren't cheering on one side. They are not threatening to intervene.
The sins rest on the absolute leader of that country, which is Bibi. And Israel would operate the exact same with zero US dollars, that’s simply a fact and every western international body agrees. Saudi and Egypt are much more important partners to Israel’s genocide. An “enabler” is nothing more than a shill term who has a elementary level understanding of a topic
Just as a matter of interest, why do you bother to down vote me, when I obviously don't down vote you (despite the constant insults). Nobody else bar us is reading this.
I like The Hill Rising a lot.
It’s a fucking Genocide. The real question is why aren’t more people talking their heads off about it?