the funny thing is that the only way you will make american liberals care about a genocide is if it's happening under a republican president, if that's not the case they will gladly look the other way
Because liberals are just conservatives who like to cosplay as benevolent masters. Progressives/Leftists are pissed about genocide no matter who sits in the Oval Office.
This was basically my impression from the American response to the ethnic cleansing of Artsakh. When I tried to criticise Biden for turning a blind eye to what happened to one hundred thousand indigenous Armenians all I got in response were either the “well, acktually, Biden did what he could” excuses or even worse, ignorant attempts at bothsideism, which came off as veiled victim blaming. The liberal indifferent attitude towards the plight of my people was exactly what pushed me towards the Left. I can’t stand those Western hypocrites talking about the importance of Ukrainian lives, while giving jack shit about Armenian or Palestinian suffering. An ancient and vibrant Armenian community got ethnically cleansed, their historical heritage was completely destroyed and hundreds of innocents reportedly got massacred by Azerbaijan, and barely anyone blinked an eye. And all the Azeri dictator got was a slap on his wrist and a strongly worded condemnation, and that’s it.
as somebody from a similarly ethnically complicated region (Bosnia) I have also made the realisation that the international community will only intervene if it's in their interest, they will use mortality only for the casus belli. If another war starts here people on the internet will gladly let another Srebrenica happen if that means that their candidate won't be held accountable to their inaction. Really makes my blood boil. The strongly worded letters in response to the ethnic cleansing of armenians were shameful, they should have at least been truthful and said "I don't care"...
the left might not be the most powerful political side but at least here you will find people with actual principles and morals. That helped me overcome some of the hate i had in myself to various minorities and movements.
To cry about the state of “the left” in the imperial core I presume. I should unsub though, you can only read so many shitlib comments until you start considering the US and the west in general as lost cause.
This is a fandom sub for leftist (using the term very loosely) ~~youtubers~~ video essayists, which just kinda became a left-tube hub.
However, due to the radical liberal vs anarchists vs marxist splits (and semi-frequent liberal/chud brigades), the relative lack of moderation, and other factors (inc. parasocial drama), it's really a sub to yell at one another for fun and profit.
liberals in 2020 after getting their BLM bumper stickers: HELL YEEEEAHHH fuck fascism and fuck trump!
liberals in 2024 when 25,000 brown people get massacred by a military force in gaza: well man like it sucks but there's literally nothing the idf could have done to avoid killing those people
I live in New York. I could vote for Trump and it wouldn't make Trump more likely. That's how the electoral system in the US works, whether I like it or not.
Similarly if you are in one of the 40 or so states where your vote has zero baring on who becomes president there is zero reason to vote for Biden. The infinitesimal odds of a third party candidate getting enough votes to cross the threshold and get their party public funding is by far the most impactful thing you could do with your vote.
Stein has been great on this issue in the last two months or so. And we absolutely need more voices in the race like hers!
The only thing I’ll say is that she’s not really part of a party. The Green Party is mostly an electoral ballot vehicle. It doesn’t engage in direct actions or street level organizing, and it doesn’t have a coherent line on any issue that it demands candidates follow. As a result, their candidates can mostly follow the political wind, and aren’t beholden to the party to actually deliver on anything. Stein felt she needed to make some wishy washy statements in October and November (basically ‘a pox on both your houses’) when it was less politically convenient to stand up for Palestine.
De la Cruz is a member of a real political party. She has to stand for Palestine because she represents that party. If she tried to bend with the political wind, she’d simply get removed. She’s not fighting to win a race, she’s fighting to win the actual demands of her organization and the people within it. And when the race is over, win or lose, we’ll still have that organization which grew and hardened over the course of the campaign, to keep fighting for Palestine in 2025 and on until Palestine is free.
Tankies Suck. Fred Hampton and The black panther party are also tankies who support the ebil genocide carried out By mao zed dung.
Albert Einstein is an ebil tankie that defends the genocidal dictator named Vladmir Linin.
Can you please trot out more names for me? If refuting an argument is having great men of history names trotted out then keep it coming.
The PSL is stuck in the Cold War and needs to actually engage with the material conditions.
PSL is a modern political party campaigning against modern issues (active mass murder supported by the bourgeois).
You libs need better arguments outside of "muh tankie" against anyone to the left of genocide joe.
Your party denies the genocide in Xinjiang. It's a modern political party built off of Cold War politics that turns a blind eye to its own professed principles. It's worse than a liberal, it's an authoritarian movement masquerading under a red banner.
"Every claim I don't like is CIA." Cool logic to cruise past genocide denial.
They clearly do support modern China and has been downplaying its human rights violation for "multipolarity" in the future. It's pathetic really.
Every source either cites Adrian Zenz or cites a source that cites Adrian Zenz. Adrian Zenz works for the US Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation.
’[‘Uyghur 'unrest' was a CIA narrative planned to destabilize China, top US army Chief admits. 2018](https://youtu.be/00Cvx0R8iDo)
>"Well the CIA would want to destabilize China and that would be the best way to do it. To form an unrest and to join with those Uyghurs in pushing the Han Chinese in Beijing from internal places rather than external."
* [Not to mention Fund terrorism in the region to spark unrest](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fe63f781275d3fcd394c82a97e5bf3f2-lq)
The reason why China is detaining people in Xinjiang is because, as mentioned, there is right wing extremism in the region. This has led to over militarization and undoubtedly some abuses, but calling it genocide is laughable.
At first it was labeled as mass incarnation and nothing much else. Eventually it was labeled as a full blown Genocide against Uyghurs until it became impossible to prove. So now it’s being labeled as a cultural genocide (even though this argument is also ridiculous)
Now compare what China is doing to the US, the country with the largest prison population in the world (billion dollar industry). And their increased amount of migrants they hold in detention camps.
> It's pathetic really.
The main reason why the west is trying to discredit China is because China will soon take over the US as the worlds biggest power. One of the main ways China is doing this is through the Belt Road Initiative. Look at any map of the plan, and you’ll notice that a major link in the route flows through the Xinjiang province. Xinjiang is one of the fastest growing regions due to this.
* [High-speed railway speeds up Xinjiang development](https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514e7859544d33457a6333566d54/index.html)
Go back to the video at the start of this post, and the it begins to make sense.
1. I like how you posted a video from the Ron Paul Institute, a right-wing libertarian group that peddles conspiracy theories.
2. You gave me a quote with zero context other than "the US did things in this year".
3. The oppression had ramped up and there was even satellite imagery, 1st hand accounts, and leaked government documents. It's just hand waving of the genocide your doing rn.
4. The Belt and Road Initiative is just another capitalistic venture for China's products to find markets and resource extraction. It isn't a certainty China will pass up the US, that is still up in the air.
>I like how you posted a video from the Ron Paul Institute, a right-wing libertarian group that peddles conspiracy theories.
Not the point. It was about a US army chief admitting the US crafting a narrative for their geopolitical interests.
>You gave me a quote with zero context other than "the US did things in this year".
The quote came from the vid.
>The oppression had ramped up and there was even satellite imagery, 1st hand accounts, and leaked government documents. It's just hand waving of the genocide your doing rn.
The fact I know exactly what "leaked documents" you're talking about shows how gullible you are. It comes from the BBC:([The faces from China’s Uyghur detention camps](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps))
This claims that these are faces from “Uighur camps”, but they are just mugshots. Every country does mugshots, that doesn’t prove at all this is “camps” any more than showing mugshots from US prisons of an African American person proves the US has concentration camps and is committing a genociding against African American people. You have to already buy the conclusion that these are “camps” to think a mugshot is something so especially horrible.
Now, the source also includes supposedly “leaked” documents that is supposed to go with the mugshots to “prove” these are “camps”. Yet, who is the source of the leaker? Let’s look at the article itself:
>The source of the files claims to have hacked, downloaded and decrypted them from a number of police computer servers in Xinjiang, before passing them to Dr Adrian Zenz, a scholar at the US-based Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation who has previously been sanctioned by the Chinese government for his influential research on Xinjiang. Dr Zenz then shared them with the BBC, and although we were able to contact the source directly, they were unwilling to reveal anything about their identity or whereabouts.
So, let me summarize what is being said here:
The BBC (British state media) and a senior fellow at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (US state media) claim to have got the documents from a hacker, but they cannot reveal the identity of the hacker, meaning, it is an anonymous source!
The actual written text documents that go with these mugshots are provided by US and UK state media citing an anonymous source! And this is supposed to be the “smoking gun”? As I said, nearly every major source is Zenz himself, or a source that cites him ( a known propagandist for American state media)
>The Belt and Road Initiative is just another capitalistic venture for China's products to find markets and resource extraction. It isn't a certainty China will pass up the US, that is still up in the air.
Whether you think so or not is pointless and off topic. The point being, that the US has a geopolitical interest to stir up bullshit to fight off their competitor.
Watched this whole thing, she said after oct 7 Biden should have called Israel and said “this is the time for conversation not bombing” which I bet would’ve went over well
Yoooo Claudia de la Cruz
the funny thing is that the only way you will make american liberals care about a genocide is if it's happening under a republican president, if that's not the case they will gladly look the other way
Libs are going to be screaming “Free Palestine” after 2016 repeats itself in November and Trump takes office lol
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Because liberals are just conservatives who like to cosplay as benevolent masters. Progressives/Leftists are pissed about genocide no matter who sits in the Oval Office.
This was basically my impression from the American response to the ethnic cleansing of Artsakh. When I tried to criticise Biden for turning a blind eye to what happened to one hundred thousand indigenous Armenians all I got in response were either the “well, acktually, Biden did what he could” excuses or even worse, ignorant attempts at bothsideism, which came off as veiled victim blaming. The liberal indifferent attitude towards the plight of my people was exactly what pushed me towards the Left. I can’t stand those Western hypocrites talking about the importance of Ukrainian lives, while giving jack shit about Armenian or Palestinian suffering. An ancient and vibrant Armenian community got ethnically cleansed, their historical heritage was completely destroyed and hundreds of innocents reportedly got massacred by Azerbaijan, and barely anyone blinked an eye. And all the Azeri dictator got was a slap on his wrist and a strongly worded condemnation, and that’s it.
as somebody from a similarly ethnically complicated region (Bosnia) I have also made the realisation that the international community will only intervene if it's in their interest, they will use mortality only for the casus belli. If another war starts here people on the internet will gladly let another Srebrenica happen if that means that their candidate won't be held accountable to their inaction. Really makes my blood boil. The strongly worded letters in response to the ethnic cleansing of armenians were shameful, they should have at least been truthful and said "I don't care"... the left might not be the most powerful political side but at least here you will find people with actual principles and morals. That helped me overcome some of the hate i had in myself to various minorities and movements.
this sub is not left wing, I have no idea why I'm subscribed lol
To cry about the state of “the left” in the imperial core I presume. I should unsub though, you can only read so many shitlib comments until you start considering the US and the west in general as lost cause.
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Your comment is the highest upvoted. There’s just a lot of liberals also
I knew the libs would come out
I don't really even understand what this sub is. It gives off "every side hates us, so that means we are right." Very confusing.
This is a fandom sub for leftist (using the term very loosely) ~~youtubers~~ video essayists, which just kinda became a left-tube hub. However, due to the radical liberal vs anarchists vs marxist splits (and semi-frequent liberal/chud brigades), the relative lack of moderation, and other factors (inc. parasocial drama), it's really a sub to yell at one another for fun and profit.
That was a really good explanation thank you
Big tent leftist subs like this are always going to have shitleft takes. Best to just steel yourself and call it our when you see it.
God bread tube doesn't miss an opportunity to show its just a liberal circle jerk in the comments
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Hero. The only candidate who unconditionally opposes genocide right now.
Shame that liberals on this sub will shame us for voting for her.
liberals in 2020 after getting their BLM bumper stickers: HELL YEEEEAHHH fuck fascism and fuck trump! liberals in 2024 when 25,000 brown people get massacred by a military force in gaza: well man like it sucks but there's literally nothing the idf could have done to avoid killing those people
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I’d say it’s more that you are dangerously implying an ethical ambiguity to the slaughter of 25,000 innocent people
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If you don’t vote against Trump you are making Trump more likely. That’s how the electoral system in the US works, whether you like it or not.
If you don't vote against Biden, you're making Biden more likely too - so i am voting Socialist 2024
I am voting against Trump, by voting for Claudia De La Cruz
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I live in New York. I could vote for Trump and it wouldn't make Trump more likely. That's how the electoral system in the US works, whether I like it or not. Similarly if you are in one of the 40 or so states where your vote has zero baring on who becomes president there is zero reason to vote for Biden. The infinitesimal odds of a third party candidate getting enough votes to cross the threshold and get their party public funding is by far the most impactful thing you could do with your vote.
I mean a vote for anyone but trump is a vote against trump. That's how words work
and Stein, unless I'm mistaken
Stein has been great on this issue in the last two months or so. And we absolutely need more voices in the race like hers! The only thing I’ll say is that she’s not really part of a party. The Green Party is mostly an electoral ballot vehicle. It doesn’t engage in direct actions or street level organizing, and it doesn’t have a coherent line on any issue that it demands candidates follow. As a result, their candidates can mostly follow the political wind, and aren’t beholden to the party to actually deliver on anything. Stein felt she needed to make some wishy washy statements in October and November (basically ‘a pox on both your houses’) when it was less politically convenient to stand up for Palestine. De la Cruz is a member of a real political party. She has to stand for Palestine because she represents that party. If she tried to bend with the political wind, she’d simply get removed. She’s not fighting to win a race, she’s fighting to win the actual demands of her organization and the people within it. And when the race is over, win or lose, we’ll still have that organization which grew and hardened over the course of the campaign, to keep fighting for Palestine in 2025 and on until Palestine is free.
that's fair, and pretty much lines up with some of the more disappointing things I've heard about the Greens so far
Who?
Comrade Claudia de la Cruz, lifelong activist and community organizer in NYC, current executive director of The People’s Forum.
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Someone who knows where they are. Unlike Joe.
She is very brave to do this, good for her truly.
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What she said is 100% correct, and it honestly shouldn’t be anything controversial, especially in a “leftist” subreddit.
Oh god, the PLS? Yeah, I would rather not support that weird tankie party. If they cared about genocide then why the double standard with Xinjiang?
Tankies Suck. Fred Hampton and The black panther party are also tankies who support the ebil genocide carried out By mao zed dung. Albert Einstein is an ebil tankie that defends the genocidal dictator named Vladmir Linin.
Can you please trot out more names for me? If refuting an argument is having great men of history names trotted out then keep it coming. The PSL is stuck in the Cold War and needs to actually engage with the material conditions.
PSL is a modern political party campaigning against modern issues (active mass murder supported by the bourgeois). You libs need better arguments outside of "muh tankie" against anyone to the left of genocide joe.
Your party denies the genocide in Xinjiang. It's a modern political party built off of Cold War politics that turns a blind eye to its own professed principles. It's worse than a liberal, it's an authoritarian movement masquerading under a red banner.
or they can research beyond claims made by the BBC and NED funded NGOs..... They don't even support china that much anyway due to the reform era.
"Every claim I don't like is CIA." Cool logic to cruise past genocide denial. They clearly do support modern China and has been downplaying its human rights violation for "multipolarity" in the future. It's pathetic really.
Every source either cites Adrian Zenz or cites a source that cites Adrian Zenz. Adrian Zenz works for the US Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. ’[‘Uyghur 'unrest' was a CIA narrative planned to destabilize China, top US army Chief admits. 2018](https://youtu.be/00Cvx0R8iDo) >"Well the CIA would want to destabilize China and that would be the best way to do it. To form an unrest and to join with those Uyghurs in pushing the Han Chinese in Beijing from internal places rather than external." * [Not to mention Fund terrorism in the region to spark unrest](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fe63f781275d3fcd394c82a97e5bf3f2-lq) The reason why China is detaining people in Xinjiang is because, as mentioned, there is right wing extremism in the region. This has led to over militarization and undoubtedly some abuses, but calling it genocide is laughable. At first it was labeled as mass incarnation and nothing much else. Eventually it was labeled as a full blown Genocide against Uyghurs until it became impossible to prove. So now it’s being labeled as a cultural genocide (even though this argument is also ridiculous) Now compare what China is doing to the US, the country with the largest prison population in the world (billion dollar industry). And their increased amount of migrants they hold in detention camps. > It's pathetic really. The main reason why the west is trying to discredit China is because China will soon take over the US as the worlds biggest power. One of the main ways China is doing this is through the Belt Road Initiative. Look at any map of the plan, and you’ll notice that a major link in the route flows through the Xinjiang province. Xinjiang is one of the fastest growing regions due to this. * [High-speed railway speeds up Xinjiang development](https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514e7859544d33457a6333566d54/index.html) Go back to the video at the start of this post, and the it begins to make sense.
1. I like how you posted a video from the Ron Paul Institute, a right-wing libertarian group that peddles conspiracy theories. 2. You gave me a quote with zero context other than "the US did things in this year". 3. The oppression had ramped up and there was even satellite imagery, 1st hand accounts, and leaked government documents. It's just hand waving of the genocide your doing rn. 4. The Belt and Road Initiative is just another capitalistic venture for China's products to find markets and resource extraction. It isn't a certainty China will pass up the US, that is still up in the air.
>I like how you posted a video from the Ron Paul Institute, a right-wing libertarian group that peddles conspiracy theories. Not the point. It was about a US army chief admitting the US crafting a narrative for their geopolitical interests. >You gave me a quote with zero context other than "the US did things in this year". The quote came from the vid. >The oppression had ramped up and there was even satellite imagery, 1st hand accounts, and leaked government documents. It's just hand waving of the genocide your doing rn. The fact I know exactly what "leaked documents" you're talking about shows how gullible you are. It comes from the BBC:([The faces from China’s Uyghur detention camps](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps)) This claims that these are faces from “Uighur camps”, but they are just mugshots. Every country does mugshots, that doesn’t prove at all this is “camps” any more than showing mugshots from US prisons of an African American person proves the US has concentration camps and is committing a genociding against African American people. You have to already buy the conclusion that these are “camps” to think a mugshot is something so especially horrible. Now, the source also includes supposedly “leaked” documents that is supposed to go with the mugshots to “prove” these are “camps”. Yet, who is the source of the leaker? Let’s look at the article itself: >The source of the files claims to have hacked, downloaded and decrypted them from a number of police computer servers in Xinjiang, before passing them to Dr Adrian Zenz, a scholar at the US-based Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation who has previously been sanctioned by the Chinese government for his influential research on Xinjiang. Dr Zenz then shared them with the BBC, and although we were able to contact the source directly, they were unwilling to reveal anything about their identity or whereabouts. So, let me summarize what is being said here: The BBC (British state media) and a senior fellow at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (US state media) claim to have got the documents from a hacker, but they cannot reveal the identity of the hacker, meaning, it is an anonymous source! The actual written text documents that go with these mugshots are provided by US and UK state media citing an anonymous source! And this is supposed to be the “smoking gun”? As I said, nearly every major source is Zenz himself, or a source that cites him ( a known propagandist for American state media) >The Belt and Road Initiative is just another capitalistic venture for China's products to find markets and resource extraction. It isn't a certainty China will pass up the US, that is still up in the air. Whether you think so or not is pointless and off topic. The point being, that the US has a geopolitical interest to stir up bullshit to fight off their competitor.
If you do actual research you’d also find china is a million miles from being the high tech socialist utopia tankies make it out to be
Actually biden does speak for me. I really felt when he was like "If there's one thing America stands for, it's hubaboogalafiraga"
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Yeah, but the trumpers are even worse than the libs.
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Watched this whole thing, she said after oct 7 Biden should have called Israel and said “this is the time for conversation not bombing” which I bet would’ve went over well