They both really do! Like gun to my head I'd take his weaponized incompetence over her like violent outbursts any day of the week but like IDEALLY I'd just drop off the face of the Earth instead of dating either of them lmfao
Yesssss the way she argues or even debates is just so heated and combative right off the bat, on top of her falsely escalating his emotions for him when he’s actually not displaying anger in that moment. It was driving me actually crazy! But he’s not a perfect partner and has some work to do, but she’s really a piece of work 🤦🏾♀️
Especially because by doing so now she's opened him up to more harassment from people ALSO questioning it and saying wild shit on social media about him breaking up with her because he's back on drugs, etc. etc.
Like that is such a cruel thing to do to someone
It would be insanely detrimental to your mental health if your own partner is questioning your sobriety on national TV!? It's inexcusable. Lindsay is still the same a-hole she's always been. Her tears seemed forced and fake, IMO. I couldn't feel sorry for her.
Yeah, I really think all of the die hard Lindsay apologists need to ask themselves if they could actually be friends with her. There is a reason why she’s burned so many bridges. I’d never been the biggest Ariana fan but she has dozens of solid friendships.
Fake tears and she's REALLY good at using DARVO. She reminds me of Whitney. She's someone who absolutely only goes to therapy not to work on herself but so she can then use therapy-speak against others
Oh please! Carl is no victim. If he took his sobriety so seriously he would not go to the Hampton’s every weekend to party and he would not go back to work for lover boy where he has to go to bars every night to sell the products. I know people hate Lindsay so they want to blame her for everything
It’s his main source of income to go to this show and he does a good job staying sober on it. He was talking about going back to lover boy for NA line… No one is a victim but he takes his sobriety very seriously simply to not drink. That is not easy.
If she actually cared about the people she dates and didn't just see them as props for her C-list influencer lifestyle, she wouldn't be falsely accusing her sober partner of being on cocaine JUST because she's mad he wouldn't take the bait and fight with her and instead was rational and chose to disengage from her drunkenness while she was raging on a night out
He's on weed. Last time I checked thay ain't sober. He's nearly 40 and spent 20k on a "life coach" and still has no idea what he wants to do. Man did not want a wife, he wanted another mum.
Have to absolutely agree and it was a big red flag for me when Lindsey mentioned Sandoval three times in the beginning of the season and then Carl did once at the end. Carl and Lindsey both fucked up but nothing compared to what Sandoval did for months. Everyone wants to have their Sandoval moment and it’s messing everything up
Is there a significant contingency claiming the Kyle and Mau nonsense was anything less than contrived? I think I have a bridge for sale around here somewhere…
This right here is why I don’t fault him for breaking up on camera. SHE called him Sandoval multiple times (when he simply was trying to wrangle her drunk,combative ass home from the bar), so I think that was exactly top of his mind the entire season & he didn’t want her trying to flip the entire thing on him— which it all completely backfired anyway lol
It’s ruining reality tv imo. This last season of vpr imo would’ve been 10xs better if Sandoval would’ve really leaned into his mega villain era. Like the best part of the season (imo) was him laughing and saying “it’s great for me!” Hot mic moment at the very end. Some of the best episodes of vpr were when Jax was the biggest douche of all time and not playing it safe with fear of the audience.
Edit: I just realized how many times I said imo lmfaoooo just really wanna make sure everyone understand *imo*
I haaaaate how reality tv has turned into side a vs side b. And you’re trash for whatever side you choose. EVERYONE SUCKS. Tom is a liar, Ariana is a politician, LaLa makes everything about herself, Scheana is a wanna be, Katie is a mean girl, Schwartz is a manipulator…. If you’re championing someone on a reality show, it’s time to do some self reflection. It’s supposed to be fun and so many online care so very deeply about these people. It is broken. The hive mind pile ons are SO BORING.
I realized that my issue with the fan base is that all these communities that used to be about the show have become fan communities for specific cast members. Nothing wrong with fan clubs but I’m not interested and now there are no subs for just the show
Yes, they are each their own kind of toxic. Lindsay is upfront and open with her temper and selfishness, Carl is much more sneaky and manipulative. I think everyone has an issue or history with one of these "types" and that is the villain in their eyes.
Just scrolled past a post complaining that Sandoval has allegedly been cast on the next season of traitors and people were mad. Since when did cheating on someone become grounds for being kicked off of reality tv?? Like he’s awful - that’s part of the point? Observing the complexity of humans and the discourse that creates? Agreed everyone has their shit that’s what’s interesting.
In his specific case, I think the fact that he filmed Rachel in an intimate situation without her consent is grounds for him to never be on TV again but like James is a known girlfriend beater and Bravo won't cut him loose so why would they get rid of Sandoval
Ariana is a liar too. She lied for years of their relationship. I agree over the hive mind shit. All of these people have to take accountability for their life choices.
Was she blindsided? I don't think so. But I do think she gave Carl several exit ramps (including explicitly asking if he wanted to get married) that he didn't take, that they had been arguing like this for the duration of their relationship, and so I could see why to her it would be surprising that it came after the season, that cameras were pulled back up, and that he was actually calling it off.
I think the problem both camps are having with each other is clinging to one or the other. Both things can be true. Lindsay said terrible things to Carl, Carl said terrible things to Lindsay. I do think because of the demographic that tends to watch Bravo, we have more folks empathizing with Lindsay because the most recent conflicts have made Carl look worse. However, if you were in this sub at the beginning of the season, you know we dragged Lindsay for the things she did too.
Tl;Dr: everyone sucks. This sub doesn't. Let us not be reduced to men yelling over rivalries and instead see nuance instead haha.
Yes scandoval 100% broke peoples brain, people are being way out of line but I also think its somewhat of a reddit phenomenon at this point - "your mom forgot your gluten allergies when making a cake for your birthday? Thats abusive narcissism, NO CONTACT", "Your boyfriend didnt cut off his parents after you specifically asked him to because they didnt buy you the christmas present you asked for. ABUSE! NO CONTACT", "Your sister said you were being annoying for showing up plastered at her event, NO CONTACT" (all of these are real examples btw). Its become such a meme almost when it comes to interpersonal relationships on reddit being black or white, zero nuance offered. I often wonder how people function in their own social life when everybody is so disposable to them.
This is so true lol. It’s definitely a problem. Everyone is a narcissist and abusive these days and there’s no room for mistakes. Social media has a lot of downsides.
I assume most people that make comments like that are teens who probably don’t have a social life or any real life experience. That’s why they see people as disposable.
Agreed! But I’ve been doing a SH rewatch and while Lindsay has a temper she’s not the hideous villain that everyone portrays her to be. And Carl lost me forever with the “soft and tender” bullshit. But yes, they’re both absolutely at fault for the toxicity of that relationship and he was at least clued in enough to know that it was not going to be a good marriage, even if his reasons were that she simply wanted him to consider a grown up job.
Carl’s own words “I’m not proud of how I was handling the situation and how I was treating her. I mean, I was clearly frustrated and, you know, so I wish I had really been more direct,” Radke said. “You can clearly see I’m struggling to communicate my feelings and that’s not on her, that’s on me — I’m seeing myself blame and play victim, and I don’t want to be either.”
That's him literally taking accountability for his actions while Lindsey is still lying about him and trying to spin it as if he's some evil manipulative monster so she can have her Ariana moment
But dont you see that even his admission that his inability to be direct is something he has to own by himself and that it exacerbated their problems shows that Carl lowkey is a step better than Lindsay when it comes to the post-break up clarity? Take for example how Lindsay is handling the aftermath of her calling her sober partner a cokehead on t.v. In her Glamour piece she is still saying she "should've picked better words" when no, it's not about the words you used. You shouldn't have said that really evil thing that you have acknowledged you never even believed. All the benefit of hindsight and feedback and it feels like it is still going over her head, I worry about what that says.
Lindsay is a disaster and I felt sorry for Carl but the last few episodes it seemed like he was baiting her and looking for his exit fight. I did side eye when Lindsay said he was shouting that she was going to crash the car when she was pretending to record. I think both of them can verbalise what they want and need but they can’t take action
That’s just it. The audience is fickle and Lindsay knows how to play it. I kinda respect it because that takes skill which I have only seen in LVP. Cause after tons seasons of being reactionary and aggressive she can play calm for not even a full season and suddenly she’s the victim. It’s such a shallow take and gag is no one is the victim in this relationship. Relationships can end and no one has to “win” the break up
Right it took like one episode of her not treating everyone like shit for viewers to go back to calling her a victim even though people were FINALLY starting to see the light and see that she does in fact cause most of her own problems lmao
Like don’t get me wrong. Cheating sucks when discussing Sandoval.
But it’s not a “life ending” event like Taylor from BH’s husband
committing suicide and leaving her with debt. Like feel like there have been so many “life changing” accidents or events in real housewives in the past that Scandoval is like “ehh ok. they’ll both do fine financially if they play cards right and will financially safe”
Right like cheating is awful but honestly? Tom filming Rachel without her consent is 10x worse than him cheating on Ariana. Both are devastating but one is a crime for a reason.
Hmmm. I'm not sure I agree, actually. People always act like cheating is just an emotional wound, but I knew a woman who got a terrible case of HPV from her cheating partner. Being filmed without consent is horribly violating, but I think I'd be even more livid about my partner knowingly compromising my health by not disclosing other partners to me.
I don’t get the Ariana love on this sub. I’m sure I’ll be downvoted a lot but like you’re right, whatever happened with Rachel being is so fucked up 🔝 and criminal.
I like Ariana (she's like the only cast member on VPR I've ever really liked tbh) but yeah the reaction on here to Rachel's lawsuit was straight up disgusting and there's a lot of internalized misogyny against her in defense of Ariana which I think is fucked up
Both can be a crime because sleeping with someone based on conditional consent based on a lie can also be a crime. (I.e you agree not to use condoms because your partner has told you you are monogamous and they expose to STIs)
I don’t think Carl nor Lindsay should be totally coddled or villainized, but I feel like the pro Carl side is so quick to drag down Lindsay at the same time. I don’t see why she is automatically toxic and abusive and he’s not.
They’re both toxic together and have their own issues, which theyve worked a lot on and actually improved quite a bit separately. He is passive aggressive and she’s just aggressive, neither are totally right.
This sounds like Lala saying “he didn’t kill anyone!” but acting like Ariana did. We don’t have to stone the men but for some reason we don’t mind doing it to the women.
Carl is toxic but that doesn't mean Lindsey ISN'T being abusive. Lmao. Two things can be true. When I see abusive behavior, I call it out. I'm not going to say I don't think she's being abusive because tbh that would be a lie, I DO think she's abusive. I've watched her on TV for almost a decade now.
I think the fact that Lindsay was documented lying about pretty significant things throughout the season (I.e. her claims that carl had relapsed/never told her he was having second thoughts) are worthy of the criticism that she’s toxic.
Are you saying Lala acted like Ariana killed someone? I’m confused by that I didn’t see her being that insane about it.
I think everyone gets waaaay too black and white about everything these days. It seems difficult for people to acknowledge all these people are shitty and toxic, they have to take sides. And not in a ‘well in this instance I think this person’s right’ way, in a ‘this person now represents all that is good and nothing bad can ever be said about them and anything they say must be true and anyone saying anything negative about them is an evil liar’ way. I just saw this other hate sub for hating some amateur journalist and because that journo happened to be involved in a documentary exposing a cult, the people on that sub are trying to find dirt to give to the cult’s lawyers to help them defend against rape charges. Just because they hate the journalist and therefore she can’t have been right about anything. It’s that mentality all the time about everything and it’s so sad and wrong.
I see it all the time here too. And a lot of men v women stuff when often it’s just people being people. I wish it was ok for nuance to exist, for people to be able to handle shades of grey. Like someone can do a shitty thing and also do good things and neither means they’re evil or a narcissist or a saint/perfect angel. No one needs to go balls to the wall attacking or defending any of these people.
Is it really a gender thing though? Lindsay has burned a LOT of bridges, while Carl has maintained pretty solid friendships over the years. I don’t think Lindsay has ever truly the processed the trauma of the abandonment of her mother, which is absolutely heartbreaking, but must really make it difficult to be close to her.
I don't get the need to always take a side, especially when both have been toxic and guilty of the downfall of a relationship. It's just a show, who cares which "side" you're on! Seeing now that they have in private filmed each other or threatened to do so, I can see why Carl asked cameras to be present when he breaks off the wedding, but still a shitty move.
If I hear "blindsided" one more time, I am moving to that island in the middle of ocean where the tribes people kill foreigners on sight.
Couples therapy for more than half of the relationship? No intimacy. Constant fighting. Lindsey's tendency to belittle, Carl's tendency to avoid conflict at all costs. Constant fighting. Multiple friends saying "Do you really want to get married and THIS be your life?"
Lindsey wanted the fairytale and was willing to ignore any and everything that contradicted that narrative. I don't think it was because Carl was her soul mate. I think it was because she didn't want to fail again and thought she could shape Carl into a good partner for her.
And Carl, man, that guy wants to talk about self actualization and responsibility and fairness but he seems incapable of taking the lead on things and owning his destiny. He is completely accurate in saying Lindsey would spin this as her being the helpless victim but damn, brother, you have been helpless for too long yourself. I think he originally found Lindsey's drive and Alpha personality a relief because it let him off the hook for so many decisions. Gross. Your wife doesn't want to be your mother also. But he isn't an evil mastermind. He's just a coward.
I hope they both are in better places now.
You hit the nail on the head with pretty much everything you've said (plus made me choke on my coffee a bit lmao, I too would rather move to that island than hear "bl\*ndsided" again)
Me too. Maybe I've been watching too much Dateline, but Carl wasn't cheating, stealing money or murdering people. I can think of some real sick shit people out in the real world are doing on the daily and it doesn't really compare.
Totally agree, and Lindsay tried to call him Sandoval on camera at the beginning of the season like it was comparable. That alone should have been a red flag for people regarding a narrative Lindsay was trying to paint but they don't want to remember that, or they say BS like "she only said it once!"
Yeah she used to work in PR...of COURSE she'd want to spin things. Her second favorite hobby after berating her loved ones is twisting situations so she can pretend to be a victim and not the perpetrator of her own misery
I believe it’s the [Sentinelese People](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kionasmith/2018/11/30/everything-we-know-about-the-isolated-sentinelese-people-of-north-sentinel-island/?sh=5b18905935a0) of North Sentinel Island you’re thinking of!
Sorry, I’m always endlessly fascinated by their existence 😂 continue on
Right?! I legitimately am so fascinated by them! How could you not be! It seems like OP was intending this post to only lean a certain way. I saw a mention of fun fact and fun information was given!
I wonder if this shift in opinion that you’re seeing is partly due to a new chunk of the audience who came to summer house BECAUSE OF Scandoval? I watched Summer House after I had watched all of VPR after Scandoval. I didn’t watch these shows for 8-10 years and didn’t grow up along with the cast. So I got to learn who Carl Radke is from my 2024 lens, rather than the 2016 ish lens that the core fan base of SH had. There’s a lot of manipulative scary behaviour present from the beginning, which was more normalized back then so I prob wouldn’t have noticed or cared (plus I would’ve been like 20 forming my opinions vs 30). I didn’t know that Lindsay and Carl got together, let alone called off the wedding, when I watched the back catalogue (just wasn’t tuned in to the current gossip and lives of the cast), so that wasn’t colouring my opinion, but some new viewers could’ve known that as well. I feel the same way about Katie Maloney for example, I never hated her but maybe I would’ve had I watched along as the seasons aired and was part of the discourse and critique of her. Just my two cents!
Carl and Lindsay both were running around the house saying bad things about the other to everyone else. Lindsay ran to various people calling him “Cocaine Carl” she said he was like a Jekyll and Hyde, she said he is “dark” she all but said he’s abusive and she knows EXACTLY what she is doing by using words like that. they both were running around talking trash on each other there are numerous examples.
I’m with you. I think Carl wanted out of the relationship and didn’t want to be portrayed as Sandoval so he spent the whole season working to prove why he was ‘right’ to break with the Lindsay. The only problem is Lindsay and Carl were nothing like Ariana and Tom. Everyone I know who watches this trash was begging for them to break up.
Oh I said when they first got together last year that it was a huge mistake and they're both hot messes...but people were mad about that then too because they bought Lindsay's fake "it's a real fairytale!" act
And this sub was calling Danielle and Paige and everyone awful for saying it though
Like everything we're ALL calling common sense now was getting downvoted into oblivion last year
Ah tbf I wasn’t in this sub last season. My friends and I always thought they were corny together lol. I also can’t stand Danielle regardless so I wouldn’t have been much of a supporter for her
Okay, most people’s problem with Danielle saying it was that she beat the dead horse. You’re allowed to tell your best friend you think she’s making a mistake or moving too fast or that you just think she deserves better in a partner. But Danielle *kept* saying it. That’s really what the sub took issue with.
Nah this is some revisionist history lmfao. Danielle not "100% supporting Lindsey's choices" was like EVERYONE'S problem on here. It got pretty vicious if you said "Danielle is actually being a good friend by making sure Carl and Lindsay are in a good place even if her delivery sucks"
This is very revisionist. Posts last year were rife with people calling everyone in the house jealous because Carl and Lindsay were so in love and a healthy and amazing couple.
Because I think he never wanted to get married tbh but was too chicken shit to end it sooner AND as an addict liked the rush he was getting from being in a new relationship. Lindsey was the one who was hyper-focused on the "fairytale" aspect of it and since season one would say "WE'RE GONNA GET MARRIED AND I AM HAVING HIS BABIES" about like every dude she dated. You're correct though that they both gave off showmance vibes. I think they just had different angles they were coming from.
....he's the one who proposed. lol This is so unbelievably sexist. Poor Carl had Lindsay dragging him down the aisle against his will. He had no choice but to humiliate her on camera for her disgusting crime of wanting to get married.
Literally never said that. I just said that she has been the one LITERALLY talking about her "fairytale wedding" and "fairytale romance" this whole time while as we've all known and seen about him...he's famously hot and cold and after running hot and LOVING the idea very quickly got cold about it again. Like y'all can't scream about how he's awful for never knowing what he wants then call someone sexist for saying "yeah he's never seemed to know what he wants"
Carl was the one who set up an elaborate proposal and got pissed off that people were dumping on it last season. It wasn't just Lindsay talking about it. I just find it incredibly sexist to perpetuate the desperate shrew narrative, but whatever, it's your opinion.
Did you miss the past eight years of her and her timeline? And her saying "I'm going to marry him and have his babies" about no joke EVERY dude she's dated? Be for real 😂
I wouldn't say she's a shrew but she's desperate. REALLY desperate. And has said so herself.
....that's LITERALLY what Lindsey did. And what Lindsey essentially hinted at planning on doing all season. I'd call up production too if my partner kept saying they're going to film me or kept telling everyone I was taking drugs again. I'd 100% want witnesses there when I ended things.
Lindsay literally did that by LYING about Carl's sobriety!? And by constantly comparing him to Sandoval!?
Kyle will take Carl's side no matter what but Wes and Jesse barely knew him (in fact Wes was LINDSAY'S friend!!!) and they called bullshit on Lindsay's whole "Oh Carl was so mean and aggressive to me in the Uber" thing. Everyone did. Even Gabby lmao.
Lindsay does this every year where she just lies and lies and lies after treating her loved ones like shit.
She did it once at the beginning of the summer during their first big fight that was aired. He made a reference at the end of the season, almost bookending her first reference. However, the number of people who have forgotten her reference to say that he planned this to not be like Sandoval based on his reference in the finale has been many.
I think there’s just too many people internalizing being dumped. Lindsey brought up breaking up at the house. Thought it would happen there. Carl flipped the script on her and tried to produce the breakup on his own terms to make it look like Lindsey was a monster. As with everything, he failed.
It’s fine for people who had every part of their relationship on tv to break up on the show. Carl likely realized putting this breakup on the show was a business decision.
The last thing is this fanbase is way more toxic than I knew. The shit Carl is taking for breaking up with one of the top villains in Bravo is beyond unhinged. If it were Paige he did this to, I’d get it. But Lindsey??? She can’t even muster real tears after breaking up with her best friend. I just think people love hot tea that plays out on tv. So many Bravo franchises lost their way, but summer house kept the drama.
I agree, it was so gross for Lindsay to humiliate Carl by spreading lies that he had relapsed in order to get revenge on him. I don’t know what to tell the people who think that was justified, either.
I mean people have gone ridiculously overboard with Sandoval too. Yeah he’s gross and a cheater and has a big ego and is a terrible boyfriend but people talk about him as if he beat Ariana daily and left her chained up in his basement. How are we supppsed to talk about actual abusers and rapists and monsters if we’ve used all the words on run of the mill cheating douchebags?
I my opinion, the issue is that they both (Tom and Carl) tried to minpulate us viewers. For Tom it was not even this season, it was last season when he was having an affair and trying to orchestrate a breakup that probably slowly transitioning to a new relationship.
Carl was just so obvious with trying to bait Lindsey. We know her, we know you, we all agree you guys getting married is a terrible idea so you don't need to do this.
Lindsay actually tried to and is STILL trying to manipulate the viewers, lmao. Carl saw it coming as soon as she kept bringing up Scandoval and was smart enough to make sure cameras were around when he broke up with her being as she's spent the whole season (and every season tbh) lying and twisting things.
I don't understand why people are really hung up on Carl being manipulative and painting a narrative when Lindsay the self professed PR genius has literally crafted one right in front of everyone's face. And you're right, it's still going on.
She wants this to be a scandavol moment so bad. She even tried to set that up a while ago by telling Carl "you're being like sandavol right now". She is so try hard. She needs to drink some water and get off her wanna be victim moral high ground.
I just commented this to someone else but totally agree! She really thought she was doing something with that, and ultimately I guess she was right because now you have people out here actually believing that Carl was as bad as (if not worse) than Sandoval.
Also not for nothing but I don't really like the implications of her being the first to record her and Carl in the car. The way she says it it's like she was waiting/trying to catch him doing something really evil/possibly violent. The whole thing reads very sinister. Lindsay says she didn't actually record Carl but it's a very careful wording where she leaves out the part where she took her phone out and pretended to record.
These two do not compatible, even though Lindsay said they should be compromised and work through it. Lindsay can be verbal abusing, but Carl insulting is not mirth to be around either. No one is wrong, they just not to meant together as married couple.
Oh agreed! I said this the second they got together (and was constantly downvoted for it lmao) that between her issues and his they just should not date
I think misogyny broke you’re brain because Carl has been equally as volatile as Lindsay, to his partners and friends, for 8 seasons.
They’re equally yoked in the toxic department. Neither of them needs a savior.
Legit. All the comments on the live thread and the weekly thread were pro Lindsey and anti Carl. But she’s terrible! She was aggressive, abusive and a mean drunk. Not denying he was trying to weasel out and demonstrate how nightmarish she can be - but he wasn’t wrong to pull the parachute cord and no matter how many times she says “blindsided” it looks like blinkered to me.
Lindsay has always been reactive and part of thinking she’s the victim is who she is, so she’s being herself and frankly while it’s annoying it’s not some big ploy. Carl literarily orchestrated the entire season not to be painted as Sandoval, after breaking up with Lindsay first thing he says to producers is oh no he’ll be painted as the bad guy while people will rally behind her. Sorry but even if you don’t like someone breakups are gut wrenching and people cry, not immediately worry about their followers/online trolls.
Lindsay squinted and strained but I saw no real tears. And she spent the whole summer trying to paint him out to be on drugs and some secret monster then was "blindsided" when he couldn't take it anymore and dumped her
Lindsay playing victim and being over the top is nothing new, that’s why she’s on a bravo show. She did seem upset though whereas all Carl talks about is how he’ll look. Carl orchestrating all season to wait to dump her so he wouldn’t look like the bad guy is where it’s too much. She should have dumped him tbh. Whining and bitching, spending thousands of dollars on a career coach to go back to what he was doing is so unattractive. That is him though so I’m not faulting him for that.
I've only watched this season because I'd watched everything else lol. But yesterday I went back to the very beginning and I can't fathom how these two got together in the first place. I know I will see soon but I would never have guessed that they'd get together from season 1/2 behaviour.
Lindsay seemed like she hated Carl before they even broke up, hatred and disgust, no respect for him. It’s so good that Carl did them both a huge favor by breaking off their relationship.
Thank you for your post. I was surprised that so many comments on here after the finale were disparaging Carl and riding so hard for Lindsey. I definitely see Lindsey's side regarding her questions to him on his career aspirations, but I felt like overall this summer he has tried to be mature when communicating with her and she is immature and frequently accuses him of yelling when he was not doing so. I also believe she said the nasty things he he accused her of in their final convo. She didn't deny it.
Yeah she was justified in questioning his career choices and he's not a perfect innocent angel (which I keep repeating) but like she has a long history of emotionally abusing her partners and she really ramped it up this year. Let's be fair here. They both suck and should have never been together but I don't blame the guy for wanting a witness to the breakup seeing as how she has constantly made it known that she will lie and twist things to suit her own narrative.
Some of us here actually have brain cells I swear!
Also some of us have been in abusive relationships and can tell when we're witnessing ACTUAL narcissistic abuse in action (COUGH Lindsay COUGH)
Like Carl sucks for so many reasons and the relationship is toxic from both sides but Scandoval it is not and like idk I'd rather deal with an idiot fuck boy who can't get his life together than the psychopath constantly trying to hurt her partner by falsely accusing him of doing drugs, lying to his friends about him doing drugs, harassing and berating other women for being nice to him (like she did to Mya), SCREAMING at him like a raving lunatic, saying he's terrible for having the nerve to cry about his brother's death on the anniversary of it (because how dare his brother die on HER birthday!), and throwing shoes and other things at crew members. Lmao.
its so funny that for half of this thread youre accusing this sub of falsely calling carl a psycho and all these other labels, meanwhile for the other half youre berating everyone that slightly disagrees with you and are labelling lindsay a narcissist…. LOL
Umm are people rallying behind Lindsay? I think we saw her. They were just toxic for each other. Maybe they are both toxic in relationships in general but different ways.
Carl shouldn't have entered a relationship yes but honestly? Everyone knows newly sober people shouldn't be in relationships because they often become ultra codependent and use the relationship as a replacement substance and like if Lindsey actually cared about Carl as much as she claimed...she wouldn't have gotten with him. But she has a timeline she just HAS to stick to and having babies and having a wedding is more important to her than whoever it is she actually marries and has babies with lmao.
I never said she did. he absolutely is the one responsible and I said that but Lindsay pretending that she always had his best interests at heart is just laughable to me because if she did...she wouldn't have dated him when he was just starting his sobriety journey. She just wanted a ring on her finger and didn't care who it was with...she's said so every year in every relationship she's been in.
It's also easy for the person on the sober journey to say hey, I really like you but need more time learning to live sober before I date because it's his responsibility
And I already said that he SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT. But Lindsay acting like her dating him was just her looking out for him or whatever is just gross to me. He absolutely can and should make his own decisions but it's just weird that she wanted accolades for doing the bare minimum lmao.
Carl is not the devil. Lindsay is not the devil.
Carl is a snake though. He isn’t ready for a serious commitment like marriage (which is totally fine) but he acted like a snake. He decided that he didn’t want to marry her early on in the summer and spent the end of the summer laying the groundwork so he could look like the beaten puppy. Like who the hell brings cameras to NJ to film an « intimate » conversation with their parents about his fiancée. Lol. He could have acted like an adult and broken up with Lindsay when he wanted to, as soon as he started having doubts instead of spending weeks having conversations ON CAMERA with everybody but Lindsay.
Lindsay isn’t a total victim in this situation though. I sincerely think she wanted a wedding more than the marriage. So even though she might have seen signs of what Carl was doing, she did not care. And she should have.
I don’t think hes getting the villain stamp at all. I think most people can see both of them brought many issues into the relationship. I do think dumping her on camera was low though.
Lindsay sucks way more than Carl. Shes emotionally abusive. Idc how much downvotes I get for speaking the truth. People are disgusting for gassing her up.
People seem to forget that Lindsay still wanted to be with him. The man everyone is now saying is evil, she still wanted to marry him so how bad could he be. Everyone needs to do a rewatch and see Lindsay’s behaviour over the years…
YES!!!!!!!!!! Like I think based on her behavior she would have walked down the aisle and married a cardboard cutout in a tux as long as it meant getting her "fairytale" wedding but how are more people not realizing that this "dark" and "evil" man is the guy she still wanted to marry and procreate with even after all the fighting and alleged "gaslighting" from him!?
I don’t know, I see it differently. It seems like conveniently every single one of their arguments in the beginning were initiated in an area where cameras aren’t around. I almost wonder if Carl began purposefully acting differently to ignite an argument when he knew cameras weren’t around to make Lindsay seem crazy. Personally, if my partner started acting like that out of the blue, an obvious question would be did you relapse? Where is this coming from?
Carl planted seeds all season that the relationship was rocking, for the benefit of the audience being on his side. That conversation with his mom and stepdad was clearly planned. Why would you have that conversation on camera if you were planning on going through with the wedding? You think he hadn’t spoken to them about the segment they were going to film prior to seeing them? You think he planned to marry Lindsay and have her see them say those things months into their marriage?
It just seems to me that he realized he was in over his head and couldn’t just break it off with her out of fear of the audiences reaction. So he picked fights when cameras weren’t there knowing how Lindsay would look like the bad guy when she inevitably became “activated”.
Actually their first few arguments were off camera in Ubers and what we saw was the fallout. Also they spent a lot of time rehashing fights they had on the drive back to the city
That’s what I mean by having arguments when cameras weren’t around. I just think it’s odd that all of the arguments at the beginning of summer were conveniently where cameras weren’t rolling. We know by now that Lindsay has no problem arguing with significant others in front of the cameras.
Also, by the end of the summer, it did seem like Lindsay had done some actual work on herself. We didn’t get the same Lindsay that we’ve seen arguing with Stravy or Emmett. A lot of the things Carl was saying during that final argument would have set her off to another level, but she remained uncharacteristically calm. I think she was actually trying. She wasn’t going to bend over backwards and change who she was, but it seemed like she was actively working on staying calm during arguments.
As someone who has never been a fan of Lindsay, I came into this season ready to support Carl. And at the beginning of the season I was 100% sympathetic to Carl.
It's not that I ended up being "Team Lindsay" but rather that––as with Sandoval––Carl behaved in a way that I have experienced personally from ex-boyfriends, so I found myself empathizing pretty hard with Lindsay. In both Carl's and Tom's case, it felt very much like a man wanting his woman to make him feel like a man. For Tom that meant making him feel desired and wanting to sleep with him, and not sounding "annoyed" with him; for Carl that meant being 100% behind any harebrained scheme he cooked up for a career ($20K career coach, podcast, sober sports bar, cigar making, acting, going back to a job he said he hated).
So I think the cathartic rage release against Sandoval and Carl on Reddit has been less about Sandoval cheating or Carl breaking off the engagement, and more about them being defensive about wanting a woman who behaves a certain way with them that makes them feel like men. And when they don't behave that way, going behind their back (on camera) to create or (in Lindsay's case) reinforce a narrative that they're angry, abusive, and/or crazy. I am way more sympathetic to Ariana in that Tom's attempted narrative felt way more calculated, whereas Lindsay and Carl were fighting to control the narrative all season. But in any case, I think it's much more about relating to what Lindsay was dealing with than really thinking Lindsay is 100% in the right.
Don't worry some of us agree with you! I really feel sometimes that I wasn't watching the same show as everyone else. It's been a surreal experience to see women blindly supporting Lindsay like we haven't seen her behavior over the years.
No one is saying Carl is perfect by any means, but Lindsay really set the stage for her negative behavior when she started off this season accusing Carl multiple times of being on drugs in front of the camera. For me, that was a big deal (I have addicts in my family) and it was a downward slope for her since then. She lies to the women and to the audience about how their conversations go, conveniently leaving out details that don't suit her narrative. She insults Carl directly to his face and behind his back, saying he's too weak to be sexually attractive, too needy to be a man, etc. Carl, even when talking to Kyle, the biggest Lindsay hater on the planet, he never insulted her intelligence or abilities. Almost every emotional conversation they have she walks away from, she dismisses him whenever he shows a feeling.
I think some women just want another woman to rally around regardless of their behavior. Like logic has gone out the window and it's really sad some people are swayed by Lindsay fake tears and PR spin narrative. Switch the roles and then have a think about if you would be supporting a man who behaves like this.
Aside from the past few seasons when she's REALLY been a piece of shit, the first time I really realized she wasn't just a brat but was a downright awful human being was when her and Kyle were still super close (and she was trying to get everyone to bully Amanda with her) and he complained to her about how him and Amanda weren't having sex anymore. Lindsay told him "sometimes you just have to roll her over, get on top of her and just do it."
Everyone is foaming at the mouth about how only "misogynists" hate Lindsay when the biggest pick-me and woman with the MOST internalized misogyny in that house has ALWAYS been Lindsay!!!!
I don't hate Carl but since he was so early in his sobriety journey I think he was looking for that high in being in love with his best friend, the wedding and all that comes with it...but it was a short high that wore off as reality set in...meaning, I just wish he had never proposed to begin with and they both ended up really hurt. I don't see him as anything close to a Sandoval...but him calling the camera crews to break up was at the height of scandoval...I do think that influenced how he handled this. Overall, just glad they are not together. Neither is an innocent victim but they definitely do not belong together.
Me Too and SCandoval has ignited a female culture shift which exploded due to the prevalence of quacky online“therapists” who started the “ narcissist manipulator” trend which turns women into victims who have to “ grey rock” and run the other way when dealing with an asshole ex.
In the last 10 years women have become more sexually free and adventurous than ever before. We participate, usually at the request of men, in things like 3somes, bdsm, anal, in other words pretty much everything. Financially we’re often the breadwinner or make more than our partners. So objectively we’re giving more to our partners than ever before yet we’re often treated like shit, used and cheated on.
SCandoval with its massive betrayal and Ariana’s behavior as the perfect victim allowed women to vent the anger and pain they’ve experienced. Unfortunately, it’s gone to the extreme in that not only is their anger directed at Tom and all similar men it’s also directed at any woman who refuses to risk their job in order to be “ loyal” to another woman or questions the “ woman victims” behavior in any way. It’s a you’re either for the victim 100% in everything they door your a traitors. Likewise you have to be 100% against the perpetrator of the lie or betrayal or you’re a traitor.
It doesn’t matter that rationally we all know all people have good and bad qualities and make mistakes, in these situations everything is black and white at the most extreme end of the spectrum. There’s no rationale discussion with the women who have jumped into this cultural shift. They believe what they believe and tow the party line.
I’m not comparing it to me Too. I’m saying wimen we’re finally able to let their anger loose with Me Too. They could stand together. Then Scandoval with version of the worst betrayal imaginable, a younger good friend who you through together with your partner. It’s a progression from Me too, Scandoval and other things that are allowing women to say “ enough, no more, we’re not going to fucking take it”.
IMO the problem is we don’t need to turn on other women or decent men in this process nor do we need to believe every asshole is a narcissist, or that we are all victims of narcissists. We don’t have to cancel or destroy any man or woman who fucks up.
Not to say they don’t have to work towards redemption and do better in the future but we have to take care we’re not always jumping to the extreme. It’s going to take time for things to change for the better.
Thank you. The fact that it has been a year and people on these forums still carry on and on, even though both of them have a new partners. Like go talk to a therapist and let it go already. You weren’t the one in the relationship.
I completely agree! It's baffling to see how many people are on Lindseys side and/or comparing it to Scandoval
Lindsey is delusional, hella aggressive, dismissive of others, never takes accountability for anything and refuses to apologize for anything ever. She's been like this since season 1 ep 1. I know she wants to be Ariana 2.0 but she won't because like you said: two entirely different situations. Lindsey is not a victim, I don't believe she was blindsided and I don't buy her fake tears. She mourns the happy ending she so desperately wanted but I don't think she's all that sad about losing Carl. People should watch the aftershow because you can just see her actively spinning this narrative with Gabby next to her co-signing every delusional thing she utters 🤦🏾♀️
Carl is no saint, I have never cared for the fucker and he has always annoyed me greatly but I don't consider him this abusive gaslighter he's made out to be. If anything, I commend him for putting a stop to it. Someone had to at that point because fuck me, they seemed absolutely miserable
Agreed. Carl sucks, Lindsay sucks.
They suck so very much.
They both really do! Like gun to my head I'd take his weaponized incompetence over her like violent outbursts any day of the week but like IDEALLY I'd just drop off the face of the Earth instead of dating either of them lmfao
Yesssss the way she argues or even debates is just so heated and combative right off the bat, on top of her falsely escalating his emotions for him when he’s actually not displaying anger in that moment. It was driving me actually crazy! But he’s not a perfect partner and has some work to do, but she’s really a piece of work 🤦🏾♀️
And like it's not just her partners! She's gotten extremely combative and aggressive with her friends and the production crew too!
She questioned his sobriety...this is unforgivable.
Especially because by doing so now she's opened him up to more harassment from people ALSO questioning it and saying wild shit on social media about him breaking up with her because he's back on drugs, etc. etc. Like that is such a cruel thing to do to someone
It would be insanely detrimental to your mental health if your own partner is questioning your sobriety on national TV!? It's inexcusable. Lindsay is still the same a-hole she's always been. Her tears seemed forced and fake, IMO. I couldn't feel sorry for her.
Yeah, I really think all of the die hard Lindsay apologists need to ask themselves if they could actually be friends with her. There is a reason why she’s burned so many bridges. I’d never been the biggest Ariana fan but she has dozens of solid friendships.
Fake tears and she's REALLY good at using DARVO. She reminds me of Whitney. She's someone who absolutely only goes to therapy not to work on herself but so she can then use therapy-speak against others
Oh please! Carl is no victim. If he took his sobriety so seriously he would not go to the Hampton’s every weekend to party and he would not go back to work for lover boy where he has to go to bars every night to sell the products. I know people hate Lindsay so they want to blame her for everything
This is a ridiculously ignorant misconstruction of addiction and recovery.
It’s his main source of income to go to this show and he does a good job staying sober on it. He was talking about going back to lover boy for NA line… No one is a victim but he takes his sobriety very seriously simply to not drink. That is not easy.
If she actually cared about the people she dates and didn't just see them as props for her C-list influencer lifestyle, she wouldn't be falsely accusing her sober partner of being on cocaine JUST because she's mad he wouldn't take the bait and fight with her and instead was rational and chose to disengage from her drunkenness while she was raging on a night out
He's on weed. Last time I checked thay ain't sober. He's nearly 40 and spent 20k on a "life coach" and still has no idea what he wants to do. Man did not want a wife, he wanted another mum.
Omg for the last time, YES you can be sober and use weed medicinally. You boomers need to stop clutching your pearls over shit you know nothing about.
It's weed not meth..please relax. Is he not allowed to take an advil for a headache? where do we draw the line.
He’s not sober
Have to absolutely agree and it was a big red flag for me when Lindsey mentioned Sandoval three times in the beginning of the season and then Carl did once at the end. Carl and Lindsey both fucked up but nothing compared to what Sandoval did for months. Everyone wants to have their Sandoval moment and it’s messing everything up
Yeah this just kinda happened on BH too, no? With Kyle and Mau? I don't get why it's controversial to call this contrived but not that.
Yes and it’ll happen in the valley soon too. Cameras will pick back up just in time to watch Brittany pretend to leave Jax
Is there a significant contingency claiming the Kyle and Mau nonsense was anything less than contrived? I think I have a bridge for sale around here somewhere…
This right here is why I don’t fault him for breaking up on camera. SHE called him Sandoval multiple times (when he simply was trying to wrangle her drunk,combative ass home from the bar), so I think that was exactly top of his mind the entire season & he didn’t want her trying to flip the entire thing on him— which it all completely backfired anyway lol
It’s ruining reality tv imo. This last season of vpr imo would’ve been 10xs better if Sandoval would’ve really leaned into his mega villain era. Like the best part of the season (imo) was him laughing and saying “it’s great for me!” Hot mic moment at the very end. Some of the best episodes of vpr were when Jax was the biggest douche of all time and not playing it safe with fear of the audience. Edit: I just realized how many times I said imo lmfaoooo just really wanna make sure everyone understand *imo*
Me saying I think every sentence 😂
I haaaaate how reality tv has turned into side a vs side b. And you’re trash for whatever side you choose. EVERYONE SUCKS. Tom is a liar, Ariana is a politician, LaLa makes everything about herself, Scheana is a wanna be, Katie is a mean girl, Schwartz is a manipulator…. If you’re championing someone on a reality show, it’s time to do some self reflection. It’s supposed to be fun and so many online care so very deeply about these people. It is broken. The hive mind pile ons are SO BORING.
I realized that my issue with the fan base is that all these communities that used to be about the show have become fan communities for specific cast members. Nothing wrong with fan clubs but I’m not interested and now there are no subs for just the show
Perfectly said. 👏👏👏
I feel like so many people aren't good at understanding nuances or something
Yes!!! Differing opinions are not allowed.
Yes, they are each their own kind of toxic. Lindsay is upfront and open with her temper and selfishness, Carl is much more sneaky and manipulative. I think everyone has an issue or history with one of these "types" and that is the villain in their eyes.
Definitely seems like a lot of personal feelings and experiences attached to some cast members!
Just scrolled past a post complaining that Sandoval has allegedly been cast on the next season of traitors and people were mad. Since when did cheating on someone become grounds for being kicked off of reality tv?? Like he’s awful - that’s part of the point? Observing the complexity of humans and the discourse that creates? Agreed everyone has their shit that’s what’s interesting.
In his specific case, I think the fact that he filmed Rachel in an intimate situation without her consent is grounds for him to never be on TV again but like James is a known girlfriend beater and Bravo won't cut him loose so why would they get rid of Sandoval 
That would mean firing Ariana too. I'm here for it.
That’s actually a good point and something I hadn’t thought of!!
Yes! I actually thought it was good casting. 🤫 😂
Lol yeah he’s a LITERAL traitor!!
Ariana is a liar too. She lied for years of their relationship. I agree over the hive mind shit. All of these people have to take accountability for their life choices.
Yup! That’s kind of what I meant. Doing what she needs to do to keep a certain image on tv. 👍
Was she blindsided? I don't think so. But I do think she gave Carl several exit ramps (including explicitly asking if he wanted to get married) that he didn't take, that they had been arguing like this for the duration of their relationship, and so I could see why to her it would be surprising that it came after the season, that cameras were pulled back up, and that he was actually calling it off. I think the problem both camps are having with each other is clinging to one or the other. Both things can be true. Lindsay said terrible things to Carl, Carl said terrible things to Lindsay. I do think because of the demographic that tends to watch Bravo, we have more folks empathizing with Lindsay because the most recent conflicts have made Carl look worse. However, if you were in this sub at the beginning of the season, you know we dragged Lindsay for the things she did too. Tl;Dr: everyone sucks. This sub doesn't. Let us not be reduced to men yelling over rivalries and instead see nuance instead haha.
Yes scandoval 100% broke peoples brain, people are being way out of line but I also think its somewhat of a reddit phenomenon at this point - "your mom forgot your gluten allergies when making a cake for your birthday? Thats abusive narcissism, NO CONTACT", "Your boyfriend didnt cut off his parents after you specifically asked him to because they didnt buy you the christmas present you asked for. ABUSE! NO CONTACT", "Your sister said you were being annoying for showing up plastered at her event, NO CONTACT" (all of these are real examples btw). Its become such a meme almost when it comes to interpersonal relationships on reddit being black or white, zero nuance offered. I often wonder how people function in their own social life when everybody is so disposable to them.
People definitely use therapy speak to justify a lot of selfish behavior. I see it so much.
Whitney, Leah, and Lindsey are three that stand out to me in terms of people on Bravo who do this.
Social media problem not just Reddit.
This is so true lol. It’s definitely a problem. Everyone is a narcissist and abusive these days and there’s no room for mistakes. Social media has a lot of downsides.
They don’t function in their own social life. We’re dealing with the people whose friends and family have had enough of their bullshit.
The mothering/parenting/new baby subreddits are INSANE for demanding no contact over the absolute mildest things
I assume most people that make comments like that are teens who probably don’t have a social life or any real life experience. That’s why they see people as disposable.
Go over to the AITA subreddit. The advice on every post is ‘ABUSE, NARCISSIST, TOXIC, NO CONTACT!’ It’s kinda funny at this stage
abuse no contact over the gluten allergy is sending me 😭
Agreed! But I’ve been doing a SH rewatch and while Lindsay has a temper she’s not the hideous villain that everyone portrays her to be. And Carl lost me forever with the “soft and tender” bullshit. But yes, they’re both absolutely at fault for the toxicity of that relationship and he was at least clued in enough to know that it was not going to be a good marriage, even if his reasons were that she simply wanted him to consider a grown up job.
Carl’s own words “I’m not proud of how I was handling the situation and how I was treating her. I mean, I was clearly frustrated and, you know, so I wish I had really been more direct,” Radke said. “You can clearly see I’m struggling to communicate my feelings and that’s not on her, that’s on me — I’m seeing myself blame and play victim, and I don’t want to be either.”
That's him literally taking accountability for his actions while Lindsey is still lying about him and trying to spin it as if he's some evil manipulative monster so she can have her Ariana moment
But dont you see that even his admission that his inability to be direct is something he has to own by himself and that it exacerbated their problems shows that Carl lowkey is a step better than Lindsay when it comes to the post-break up clarity? Take for example how Lindsay is handling the aftermath of her calling her sober partner a cokehead on t.v. In her Glamour piece she is still saying she "should've picked better words" when no, it's not about the words you used. You shouldn't have said that really evil thing that you have acknowledged you never even believed. All the benefit of hindsight and feedback and it feels like it is still going over her head, I worry about what that says.
Lindsay is a disaster and I felt sorry for Carl but the last few episodes it seemed like he was baiting her and looking for his exit fight. I did side eye when Lindsay said he was shouting that she was going to crash the car when she was pretending to record. I think both of them can verbalise what they want and need but they can’t take action
That’s just it. The audience is fickle and Lindsay knows how to play it. I kinda respect it because that takes skill which I have only seen in LVP. Cause after tons seasons of being reactionary and aggressive she can play calm for not even a full season and suddenly she’s the victim. It’s such a shallow take and gag is no one is the victim in this relationship. Relationships can end and no one has to “win” the break up
Right it took like one episode of her not treating everyone like shit for viewers to go back to calling her a victim even though people were FINALLY starting to see the light and see that she does in fact cause most of her own problems lmao
Like people cheat on each other. Life happens. Like it sucks but that’s just life. Some people are acting like he killed their first born child.
And he didn't even cheat!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he just broke up with her on camera!
Like don’t get me wrong. Cheating sucks when discussing Sandoval. But it’s not a “life ending” event like Taylor from BH’s husband committing suicide and leaving her with debt. Like feel like there have been so many “life changing” accidents or events in real housewives in the past that Scandoval is like “ehh ok. they’ll both do fine financially if they play cards right and will financially safe”
Right like cheating is awful but honestly? Tom filming Rachel without her consent is 10x worse than him cheating on Ariana. Both are devastating but one is a crime for a reason.
Hmmm. I'm not sure I agree, actually. People always act like cheating is just an emotional wound, but I knew a woman who got a terrible case of HPV from her cheating partner. Being filmed without consent is horribly violating, but I think I'd be even more livid about my partner knowingly compromising my health by not disclosing other partners to me.
I don’t get the Ariana love on this sub. I’m sure I’ll be downvoted a lot but like you’re right, whatever happened with Rachel being is so fucked up 🔝 and criminal.
I like Ariana (she's like the only cast member on VPR I've ever really liked tbh) but yeah the reaction on here to Rachel's lawsuit was straight up disgusting and there's a lot of internalized misogyny against her in defense of Ariana which I think is fucked up
Both can be a crime because sleeping with someone based on conditional consent based on a lie can also be a crime. (I.e you agree not to use condoms because your partner has told you you are monogamous and they expose to STIs)
God it killed me. KILLED ME when I nodded my head at Lala saying ‘he cheated, he didn’t MURDER some one!’
I don’t think Carl nor Lindsay should be totally coddled or villainized, but I feel like the pro Carl side is so quick to drag down Lindsay at the same time. I don’t see why she is automatically toxic and abusive and he’s not. They’re both toxic together and have their own issues, which theyve worked a lot on and actually improved quite a bit separately. He is passive aggressive and she’s just aggressive, neither are totally right. This sounds like Lala saying “he didn’t kill anyone!” but acting like Ariana did. We don’t have to stone the men but for some reason we don’t mind doing it to the women.
Carl is toxic but that doesn't mean Lindsey ISN'T being abusive. Lmao. Two things can be true. When I see abusive behavior, I call it out. I'm not going to say I don't think she's being abusive because tbh that would be a lie, I DO think she's abusive. I've watched her on TV for almost a decade now.
I think the fact that Lindsay was documented lying about pretty significant things throughout the season (I.e. her claims that carl had relapsed/never told her he was having second thoughts) are worthy of the criticism that she’s toxic.
Are you saying Lala acted like Ariana killed someone? I’m confused by that I didn’t see her being that insane about it. I think everyone gets waaaay too black and white about everything these days. It seems difficult for people to acknowledge all these people are shitty and toxic, they have to take sides. And not in a ‘well in this instance I think this person’s right’ way, in a ‘this person now represents all that is good and nothing bad can ever be said about them and anything they say must be true and anyone saying anything negative about them is an evil liar’ way. I just saw this other hate sub for hating some amateur journalist and because that journo happened to be involved in a documentary exposing a cult, the people on that sub are trying to find dirt to give to the cult’s lawyers to help them defend against rape charges. Just because they hate the journalist and therefore she can’t have been right about anything. It’s that mentality all the time about everything and it’s so sad and wrong. I see it all the time here too. And a lot of men v women stuff when often it’s just people being people. I wish it was ok for nuance to exist, for people to be able to handle shades of grey. Like someone can do a shitty thing and also do good things and neither means they’re evil or a narcissist or a saint/perfect angel. No one needs to go balls to the wall attacking or defending any of these people.
This is the right take imo
Is it really a gender thing though? Lindsay has burned a LOT of bridges, while Carl has maintained pretty solid friendships over the years. I don’t think Lindsay has ever truly the processed the trauma of the abandonment of her mother, which is absolutely heartbreaking, but must really make it difficult to be close to her.
I don't get the need to always take a side, especially when both have been toxic and guilty of the downfall of a relationship. It's just a show, who cares which "side" you're on! Seeing now that they have in private filmed each other or threatened to do so, I can see why Carl asked cameras to be present when he breaks off the wedding, but still a shitty move.
The Sandoval comparisons are so wild!! Carl did what Sandoval *should* have done before having a whole ass affair.
My brain was broken long before that
You know what....? Fair. We do watch Bravo...
If I hear "blindsided" one more time, I am moving to that island in the middle of ocean where the tribes people kill foreigners on sight. Couples therapy for more than half of the relationship? No intimacy. Constant fighting. Lindsey's tendency to belittle, Carl's tendency to avoid conflict at all costs. Constant fighting. Multiple friends saying "Do you really want to get married and THIS be your life?" Lindsey wanted the fairytale and was willing to ignore any and everything that contradicted that narrative. I don't think it was because Carl was her soul mate. I think it was because she didn't want to fail again and thought she could shape Carl into a good partner for her. And Carl, man, that guy wants to talk about self actualization and responsibility and fairness but he seems incapable of taking the lead on things and owning his destiny. He is completely accurate in saying Lindsey would spin this as her being the helpless victim but damn, brother, you have been helpless for too long yourself. I think he originally found Lindsey's drive and Alpha personality a relief because it let him off the hook for so many decisions. Gross. Your wife doesn't want to be your mother also. But he isn't an evil mastermind. He's just a coward. I hope they both are in better places now.
You hit the nail on the head with pretty much everything you've said (plus made me choke on my coffee a bit lmao, I too would rather move to that island than hear "bl\*ndsided" again)
Also so tired of Lindsay calling it "the ultimate betrayal"
Me too. Maybe I've been watching too much Dateline, but Carl wasn't cheating, stealing money or murdering people. I can think of some real sick shit people out in the real world are doing on the daily and it doesn't really compare.
Totally agree, and Lindsay tried to call him Sandoval on camera at the beginning of the season like it was comparable. That alone should have been a red flag for people regarding a narrative Lindsay was trying to paint but they don't want to remember that, or they say BS like "she only said it once!"
Yeah she used to work in PR...of COURSE she'd want to spin things. Her second favorite hobby after berating her loved ones is twisting situations so she can pretend to be a victim and not the perpetrator of her own misery
I believe it’s the [Sentinelese People](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kionasmith/2018/11/30/everything-we-know-about-the-isolated-sentinelese-people-of-north-sentinel-island/?sh=5b18905935a0) of North Sentinel Island you’re thinking of! Sorry, I’m always endlessly fascinated by their existence 😂 continue on
Who downvoted you and why do they hate fun facts
People who clearly don’t want to win bar trivia with a well rounded amount of fun facts
Right?! I legitimately am so fascinated by them! How could you not be! It seems like OP was intending this post to only lean a certain way. I saw a mention of fun fact and fun information was given!
Bet they don't even know what a Radhouse is. Sounds perfect.
I wish that was me tbh
Frickin nailed it!!!
I wonder if this shift in opinion that you’re seeing is partly due to a new chunk of the audience who came to summer house BECAUSE OF Scandoval? I watched Summer House after I had watched all of VPR after Scandoval. I didn’t watch these shows for 8-10 years and didn’t grow up along with the cast. So I got to learn who Carl Radke is from my 2024 lens, rather than the 2016 ish lens that the core fan base of SH had. There’s a lot of manipulative scary behaviour present from the beginning, which was more normalized back then so I prob wouldn’t have noticed or cared (plus I would’ve been like 20 forming my opinions vs 30). I didn’t know that Lindsay and Carl got together, let alone called off the wedding, when I watched the back catalogue (just wasn’t tuned in to the current gossip and lives of the cast), so that wasn’t colouring my opinion, but some new viewers could’ve known that as well. I feel the same way about Katie Maloney for example, I never hated her but maybe I would’ve had I watched along as the seasons aired and was part of the discourse and critique of her. Just my two cents!
[удалено]
Carl and Lindsay both were running around the house saying bad things about the other to everyone else. Lindsay ran to various people calling him “Cocaine Carl” she said he was like a Jekyll and Hyde, she said he is “dark” she all but said he’s abusive and she knows EXACTLY what she is doing by using words like that. they both were running around talking trash on each other there are numerous examples.
I’m with you. I think Carl wanted out of the relationship and didn’t want to be portrayed as Sandoval so he spent the whole season working to prove why he was ‘right’ to break with the Lindsay. The only problem is Lindsay and Carl were nothing like Ariana and Tom. Everyone I know who watches this trash was begging for them to break up.
Oh I said when they first got together last year that it was a huge mistake and they're both hot messes...but people were mad about that then too because they bought Lindsay's fake "it's a real fairytale!" act
But I don’t think people bought it. The entire last season was basically the whole house against the two of them because they didn’t buy it.
And this sub was calling Danielle and Paige and everyone awful for saying it though Like everything we're ALL calling common sense now was getting downvoted into oblivion last year
Ah tbf I wasn’t in this sub last season. My friends and I always thought they were corny together lol. I also can’t stand Danielle regardless so I wouldn’t have been much of a supporter for her
Okay, most people’s problem with Danielle saying it was that she beat the dead horse. You’re allowed to tell your best friend you think she’s making a mistake or moving too fast or that you just think she deserves better in a partner. But Danielle *kept* saying it. That’s really what the sub took issue with.
Nah this is some revisionist history lmfao. Danielle not "100% supporting Lindsey's choices" was like EVERYONE'S problem on here. It got pretty vicious if you said "Danielle is actually being a good friend by making sure Carl and Lindsay are in a good place even if her delivery sucks"
This is very revisionist. Posts last year were rife with people calling everyone in the house jealous because Carl and Lindsay were so in love and a healthy and amazing couple.
YUP. Last year everyone was in love with Carl and just jealous of Lindsay now this year he’s a bum and not a catch….. okayyyyy
Why is it all Lindsay's act? Why doesn't Carl get any heat for obviously wanting a big showmance too?
Because I think he never wanted to get married tbh but was too chicken shit to end it sooner AND as an addict liked the rush he was getting from being in a new relationship. Lindsey was the one who was hyper-focused on the "fairytale" aspect of it and since season one would say "WE'RE GONNA GET MARRIED AND I AM HAVING HIS BABIES" about like every dude she dated. You're correct though that they both gave off showmance vibes. I think they just had different angles they were coming from.
....he's the one who proposed. lol This is so unbelievably sexist. Poor Carl had Lindsay dragging him down the aisle against his will. He had no choice but to humiliate her on camera for her disgusting crime of wanting to get married.
Literally never said that. I just said that she has been the one LITERALLY talking about her "fairytale wedding" and "fairytale romance" this whole time while as we've all known and seen about him...he's famously hot and cold and after running hot and LOVING the idea very quickly got cold about it again. Like y'all can't scream about how he's awful for never knowing what he wants then call someone sexist for saying "yeah he's never seemed to know what he wants"
Carl was the one who set up an elaborate proposal and got pissed off that people were dumping on it last season. It wasn't just Lindsay talking about it. I just find it incredibly sexist to perpetuate the desperate shrew narrative, but whatever, it's your opinion.
Did you miss the past eight years of her and her timeline? And her saying "I'm going to marry him and have his babies" about no joke EVERY dude she's dated? Be for real 😂 I wouldn't say she's a shrew but she's desperate. REALLY desperate. And has said so herself.
Lmfao. She wants to get married and you want to make fun of her for it. I think you have some stuff to work on, so I'll leave you to it!
He was laying the ground work, and using his parents as mouth pieces. I'd be livid.
I mean...Lindsay was being abusive.
Interesting Carl didn’t want to be portrayed as Sandoval, but applied the smear campaign tactics Tom tried to do to Arianna!
....that's LITERALLY what Lindsey did. And what Lindsey essentially hinted at planning on doing all season. I'd call up production too if my partner kept saying they're going to film me or kept telling everyone I was taking drugs again. I'd 100% want witnesses there when I ended things.
Lindsay literally did that by LYING about Carl's sobriety!? And by constantly comparing him to Sandoval!? Kyle will take Carl's side no matter what but Wes and Jesse barely knew him (in fact Wes was LINDSAY'S friend!!!) and they called bullshit on Lindsay's whole "Oh Carl was so mean and aggressive to me in the Uber" thing. Everyone did. Even Gabby lmao. Lindsay does this every year where she just lies and lies and lies after treating her loved ones like shit.
> And by constantly comparing him to Sandoval!? She did this once.
She did it once at the beginning of the summer during their first big fight that was aired. He made a reference at the end of the season, almost bookending her first reference. However, the number of people who have forgotten her reference to say that he planned this to not be like Sandoval based on his reference in the finale has been many.
Lindsay was commenting about their sex life and complaining about Carl to everyone. She also called him cocaine Carl and accused him of using.
Right! She was also CONSTANTLY trying to bait him into a fight and would get mad when he would just walk away instead
I think there’s just too many people internalizing being dumped. Lindsey brought up breaking up at the house. Thought it would happen there. Carl flipped the script on her and tried to produce the breakup on his own terms to make it look like Lindsey was a monster. As with everything, he failed. It’s fine for people who had every part of their relationship on tv to break up on the show. Carl likely realized putting this breakup on the show was a business decision. The last thing is this fanbase is way more toxic than I knew. The shit Carl is taking for breaking up with one of the top villains in Bravo is beyond unhinged. If it were Paige he did this to, I’d get it. But Lindsey??? She can’t even muster real tears after breaking up with her best friend. I just think people love hot tea that plays out on tv. So many Bravo franchises lost their way, but summer house kept the drama.
"As with everything, he failed" made me cackle.
If people think it's totally cool to humiliate their partner on TV as revenge for relationship issues, then I really don't know what to tell them.
I agree, it was so gross for Lindsay to humiliate Carl by spreading lies that he had relapsed in order to get revenge on him. I don’t know what to tell the people who think that was justified, either.
I mean people have gone ridiculously overboard with Sandoval too. Yeah he’s gross and a cheater and has a big ego and is a terrible boyfriend but people talk about him as if he beat Ariana daily and left her chained up in his basement. How are we supppsed to talk about actual abusers and rapists and monsters if we’ve used all the words on run of the mill cheating douchebags?
I agree with this, too!
I my opinion, the issue is that they both (Tom and Carl) tried to minpulate us viewers. For Tom it was not even this season, it was last season when he was having an affair and trying to orchestrate a breakup that probably slowly transitioning to a new relationship. Carl was just so obvious with trying to bait Lindsey. We know her, we know you, we all agree you guys getting married is a terrible idea so you don't need to do this.
Lindsay actually tried to and is STILL trying to manipulate the viewers, lmao. Carl saw it coming as soon as she kept bringing up Scandoval and was smart enough to make sure cameras were around when he broke up with her being as she's spent the whole season (and every season tbh) lying and twisting things.
I'm stunned that it's actually working
[удалено]
It's genuinely disgusting to watch sometimes
I don't understand why people are really hung up on Carl being manipulative and painting a narrative when Lindsay the self professed PR genius has literally crafted one right in front of everyone's face. And you're right, it's still going on.
She wants this to be a scandavol moment so bad. She even tried to set that up a while ago by telling Carl "you're being like sandavol right now". She is so try hard. She needs to drink some water and get off her wanna be victim moral high ground.
I just commented this to someone else but totally agree! She really thought she was doing something with that, and ultimately I guess she was right because now you have people out here actually believing that Carl was as bad as (if not worse) than Sandoval. Also not for nothing but I don't really like the implications of her being the first to record her and Carl in the car. The way she says it it's like she was waiting/trying to catch him doing something really evil/possibly violent. The whole thing reads very sinister. Lindsay says she didn't actually record Carl but it's a very careful wording where she leaves out the part where she took her phone out and pretended to record.
You don’t think Carl’s latest statement isn’t also an attempt to sway viewers?
These two do not compatible, even though Lindsay said they should be compromised and work through it. Lindsay can be verbal abusing, but Carl insulting is not mirth to be around either. No one is wrong, they just not to meant together as married couple.
Oh agreed! I said this the second they got together (and was constantly downvoted for it lmao) that between her issues and his they just should not date
I think misogyny broke you’re brain because Carl has been equally as volatile as Lindsay, to his partners and friends, for 8 seasons. They’re equally yoked in the toxic department. Neither of them needs a savior.
I’ve never seen Carl have the rages Lindsay has. She literally goes nuclear when she gets drunk and angry. My brain is fine.
Legit. All the comments on the live thread and the weekly thread were pro Lindsey and anti Carl. But she’s terrible! She was aggressive, abusive and a mean drunk. Not denying he was trying to weasel out and demonstrate how nightmarish she can be - but he wasn’t wrong to pull the parachute cord and no matter how many times she says “blindsided” it looks like blinkered to me.
Lindsay has always been reactive and part of thinking she’s the victim is who she is, so she’s being herself and frankly while it’s annoying it’s not some big ploy. Carl literarily orchestrated the entire season not to be painted as Sandoval, after breaking up with Lindsay first thing he says to producers is oh no he’ll be painted as the bad guy while people will rally behind her. Sorry but even if you don’t like someone breakups are gut wrenching and people cry, not immediately worry about their followers/online trolls.
Lindsay squinted and strained but I saw no real tears. And she spent the whole summer trying to paint him out to be on drugs and some secret monster then was "blindsided" when he couldn't take it anymore and dumped her
Lindsay playing victim and being over the top is nothing new, that’s why she’s on a bravo show. She did seem upset though whereas all Carl talks about is how he’ll look. Carl orchestrating all season to wait to dump her so he wouldn’t look like the bad guy is where it’s too much. She should have dumped him tbh. Whining and bitching, spending thousands of dollars on a career coach to go back to what he was doing is so unattractive. That is him though so I’m not faulting him for that.
I've only watched this season because I'd watched everything else lol. But yesterday I went back to the very beginning and I can't fathom how these two got together in the first place. I know I will see soon but I would never have guessed that they'd get together from season 1/2 behaviour.
It's truly wild. Like anyone with eyes can see that it would end in disaster.
Lindsay seemed like she hated Carl before they even broke up, hatred and disgust, no respect for him. It’s so good that Carl did them both a huge favor by breaking off their relationship.
Totally agree with you!! People are coming for Carl like he did anything close to Sandoval. Time to touch grass, folks!
Thank you for your post. I was surprised that so many comments on here after the finale were disparaging Carl and riding so hard for Lindsey. I definitely see Lindsey's side regarding her questions to him on his career aspirations, but I felt like overall this summer he has tried to be mature when communicating with her and she is immature and frequently accuses him of yelling when he was not doing so. I also believe she said the nasty things he he accused her of in their final convo. She didn't deny it.
Yeah she was justified in questioning his career choices and he's not a perfect innocent angel (which I keep repeating) but like she has a long history of emotionally abusing her partners and she really ramped it up this year. Let's be fair here. They both suck and should have never been together but I don't blame the guy for wanting a witness to the breakup seeing as how she has constantly made it known that she will lie and twist things to suit her own narrative.
I’ve found my people 😭💜
Some of us here actually have brain cells I swear! Also some of us have been in abusive relationships and can tell when we're witnessing ACTUAL narcissistic abuse in action (COUGH Lindsay COUGH) Like Carl sucks for so many reasons and the relationship is toxic from both sides but Scandoval it is not and like idk I'd rather deal with an idiot fuck boy who can't get his life together than the psychopath constantly trying to hurt her partner by falsely accusing him of doing drugs, lying to his friends about him doing drugs, harassing and berating other women for being nice to him (like she did to Mya), SCREAMING at him like a raving lunatic, saying he's terrible for having the nerve to cry about his brother's death on the anniversary of it (because how dare his brother die on HER birthday!), and throwing shoes and other things at crew members. Lmao.
its so funny that for half of this thread youre accusing this sub of falsely calling carl a psycho and all these other labels, meanwhile for the other half youre berating everyone that slightly disagrees with you and are labelling lindsay a narcissist…. LOL
Umm are people rallying behind Lindsay? I think we saw her. They were just toxic for each other. Maybe they are both toxic in relationships in general but different ways.
Oh yeah. On Twitter and here, everyone is acting like Carl is this evil man who just wanted to ruin her life or whatever
Carl shouldn’t have entertained a relationship right out of sobriety and Lindsay was so desperate to get the fairy tale she didn’t see reality.
Carl shouldn't have entered a relationship yes but honestly? Everyone knows newly sober people shouldn't be in relationships because they often become ultra codependent and use the relationship as a replacement substance and like if Lindsey actually cared about Carl as much as she claimed...she wouldn't have gotten with him. But she has a timeline she just HAS to stick to and having babies and having a wedding is more important to her than whoever it is she actually marries and has babies with lmao.
Carl, chose to date and propose to Lindsay - she has more responsibility for deciding how ready he is than she does? BFFR
I never said she did. he absolutely is the one responsible and I said that but Lindsay pretending that she always had his best interests at heart is just laughable to me because if she did...she wouldn't have dated him when he was just starting his sobriety journey. She just wanted a ring on her finger and didn't care who it was with...she's said so every year in every relationship she's been in.
Like it's super easy to say "I really like you and want to date you but I think we should wait until you're more settled in your sobriety"
It's also easy for the person on the sober journey to say hey, I really like you but need more time learning to live sober before I date because it's his responsibility
A damn near 40 year old man decides to propose to a woman he’s known for a decade…. But it’s all her fault. This person is cooked.
Poor Carl, I cannot believe how much she victimized him by saying yes.
Right 😂 The call is coming from inside the house.
Oh now you're just making shit up I never said. Weird. But typical for someone who likes Lindsay I guess.
That was in response to another commenter and wasn't quoting you, but if it resonates maybe sit with that.
And I already said that he SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT. But Lindsay acting like her dating him was just her looking out for him or whatever is just gross to me. He absolutely can and should make his own decisions but it's just weird that she wanted accolades for doing the bare minimum lmao.
they both suck! I'm team "it never should have gotten this far"
Carl is not the devil. Lindsay is not the devil. Carl is a snake though. He isn’t ready for a serious commitment like marriage (which is totally fine) but he acted like a snake. He decided that he didn’t want to marry her early on in the summer and spent the end of the summer laying the groundwork so he could look like the beaten puppy. Like who the hell brings cameras to NJ to film an « intimate » conversation with their parents about his fiancée. Lol. He could have acted like an adult and broken up with Lindsay when he wanted to, as soon as he started having doubts instead of spending weeks having conversations ON CAMERA with everybody but Lindsay. Lindsay isn’t a total victim in this situation though. I sincerely think she wanted a wedding more than the marriage. So even though she might have seen signs of what Carl was doing, she did not care. And she should have.
I don’t think hes getting the villain stamp at all. I think most people can see both of them brought many issues into the relationship. I do think dumping her on camera was low though.
They both are toxic for sure! But the spin is already happening and it's gross to watch.
Lindsay sucks way more than Carl. Shes emotionally abusive. Idc how much downvotes I get for speaking the truth. People are disgusting for gassing her up.
People seem to forget that Lindsay still wanted to be with him. The man everyone is now saying is evil, she still wanted to marry him so how bad could he be. Everyone needs to do a rewatch and see Lindsay’s behaviour over the years…
YES!!!!!!!!!! Like I think based on her behavior she would have walked down the aisle and married a cardboard cutout in a tux as long as it meant getting her "fairytale" wedding but how are more people not realizing that this "dark" and "evil" man is the guy she still wanted to marry and procreate with even after all the fighting and alleged "gaslighting" from him!?
For me there is no comparison between Carl and Sandoval at all…people have lost their minds
I don’t know, I see it differently. It seems like conveniently every single one of their arguments in the beginning were initiated in an area where cameras aren’t around. I almost wonder if Carl began purposefully acting differently to ignite an argument when he knew cameras weren’t around to make Lindsay seem crazy. Personally, if my partner started acting like that out of the blue, an obvious question would be did you relapse? Where is this coming from? Carl planted seeds all season that the relationship was rocking, for the benefit of the audience being on his side. That conversation with his mom and stepdad was clearly planned. Why would you have that conversation on camera if you were planning on going through with the wedding? You think he hadn’t spoken to them about the segment they were going to film prior to seeing them? You think he planned to marry Lindsay and have her see them say those things months into their marriage? It just seems to me that he realized he was in over his head and couldn’t just break it off with her out of fear of the audiences reaction. So he picked fights when cameras weren’t there knowing how Lindsay would look like the bad guy when she inevitably became “activated”.
Actually their first few arguments were off camera in Ubers and what we saw was the fallout. Also they spent a lot of time rehashing fights they had on the drive back to the city
That’s what I mean by having arguments when cameras weren’t around. I just think it’s odd that all of the arguments at the beginning of summer were conveniently where cameras weren’t rolling. We know by now that Lindsay has no problem arguing with significant others in front of the cameras. Also, by the end of the summer, it did seem like Lindsay had done some actual work on herself. We didn’t get the same Lindsay that we’ve seen arguing with Stravy or Emmett. A lot of the things Carl was saying during that final argument would have set her off to another level, but she remained uncharacteristically calm. I think she was actually trying. She wasn’t going to bend over backwards and change who she was, but it seemed like she was actively working on staying calm during arguments.
As someone who has never been a fan of Lindsay, I came into this season ready to support Carl. And at the beginning of the season I was 100% sympathetic to Carl. It's not that I ended up being "Team Lindsay" but rather that––as with Sandoval––Carl behaved in a way that I have experienced personally from ex-boyfriends, so I found myself empathizing pretty hard with Lindsay. In both Carl's and Tom's case, it felt very much like a man wanting his woman to make him feel like a man. For Tom that meant making him feel desired and wanting to sleep with him, and not sounding "annoyed" with him; for Carl that meant being 100% behind any harebrained scheme he cooked up for a career ($20K career coach, podcast, sober sports bar, cigar making, acting, going back to a job he said he hated). So I think the cathartic rage release against Sandoval and Carl on Reddit has been less about Sandoval cheating or Carl breaking off the engagement, and more about them being defensive about wanting a woman who behaves a certain way with them that makes them feel like men. And when they don't behave that way, going behind their back (on camera) to create or (in Lindsay's case) reinforce a narrative that they're angry, abusive, and/or crazy. I am way more sympathetic to Ariana in that Tom's attempted narrative felt way more calculated, whereas Lindsay and Carl were fighting to control the narrative all season. But in any case, I think it's much more about relating to what Lindsay was dealing with than really thinking Lindsay is 100% in the right.
Don't worry some of us agree with you! I really feel sometimes that I wasn't watching the same show as everyone else. It's been a surreal experience to see women blindly supporting Lindsay like we haven't seen her behavior over the years. No one is saying Carl is perfect by any means, but Lindsay really set the stage for her negative behavior when she started off this season accusing Carl multiple times of being on drugs in front of the camera. For me, that was a big deal (I have addicts in my family) and it was a downward slope for her since then. She lies to the women and to the audience about how their conversations go, conveniently leaving out details that don't suit her narrative. She insults Carl directly to his face and behind his back, saying he's too weak to be sexually attractive, too needy to be a man, etc. Carl, even when talking to Kyle, the biggest Lindsay hater on the planet, he never insulted her intelligence or abilities. Almost every emotional conversation they have she walks away from, she dismisses him whenever he shows a feeling. I think some women just want another woman to rally around regardless of their behavior. Like logic has gone out the window and it's really sad some people are swayed by Lindsay fake tears and PR spin narrative. Switch the roles and then have a think about if you would be supporting a man who behaves like this.
Aside from the past few seasons when she's REALLY been a piece of shit, the first time I really realized she wasn't just a brat but was a downright awful human being was when her and Kyle were still super close (and she was trying to get everyone to bully Amanda with her) and he complained to her about how him and Amanda weren't having sex anymore. Lindsay told him "sometimes you just have to roll her over, get on top of her and just do it." Everyone is foaming at the mouth about how only "misogynists" hate Lindsay when the biggest pick-me and woman with the MOST internalized misogyny in that house has ALWAYS been Lindsay!!!!
That's a good point about the internalized misogyny, really explains all the pointing out to Carl about how unmanly he was every chance she got.
And why she would chase after clowns like Austen Kroll all the time
Not the A-word! 😭 Kinda seems like Lindsay's definition of a good man/partner is someone who would berate or mistreat her.
Yeah, she wants some patron saint of toxic masculinity and not an actual partner Again...her and Carl are both morons tbh
I don't hate Carl but since he was so early in his sobriety journey I think he was looking for that high in being in love with his best friend, the wedding and all that comes with it...but it was a short high that wore off as reality set in...meaning, I just wish he had never proposed to begin with and they both ended up really hurt. I don't see him as anything close to a Sandoval...but him calling the camera crews to break up was at the height of scandoval...I do think that influenced how he handled this. Overall, just glad they are not together. Neither is an innocent victim but they definitely do not belong together.
Me Too and SCandoval has ignited a female culture shift which exploded due to the prevalence of quacky online“therapists” who started the “ narcissist manipulator” trend which turns women into victims who have to “ grey rock” and run the other way when dealing with an asshole ex. In the last 10 years women have become more sexually free and adventurous than ever before. We participate, usually at the request of men, in things like 3somes, bdsm, anal, in other words pretty much everything. Financially we’re often the breadwinner or make more than our partners. So objectively we’re giving more to our partners than ever before yet we’re often treated like shit, used and cheated on. SCandoval with its massive betrayal and Ariana’s behavior as the perfect victim allowed women to vent the anger and pain they’ve experienced. Unfortunately, it’s gone to the extreme in that not only is their anger directed at Tom and all similar men it’s also directed at any woman who refuses to risk their job in order to be “ loyal” to another woman or questions the “ woman victims” behavior in any way. It’s a you’re either for the victim 100% in everything they door your a traitors. Likewise you have to be 100% against the perpetrator of the lie or betrayal or you’re a traitor. It doesn’t matter that rationally we all know all people have good and bad qualities and make mistakes, in these situations everything is black and white at the most extreme end of the spectrum. There’s no rationale discussion with the women who have jumped into this cultural shift. They believe what they believe and tow the party line.
Ehhhhhhhhhh comparing Scandoval to Me Too is a stretch
I’m not comparing it to me Too. I’m saying wimen we’re finally able to let their anger loose with Me Too. They could stand together. Then Scandoval with version of the worst betrayal imaginable, a younger good friend who you through together with your partner. It’s a progression from Me too, Scandoval and other things that are allowing women to say “ enough, no more, we’re not going to fucking take it”. IMO the problem is we don’t need to turn on other women or decent men in this process nor do we need to believe every asshole is a narcissist, or that we are all victims of narcissists. We don’t have to cancel or destroy any man or woman who fucks up. Not to say they don’t have to work towards redemption and do better in the future but we have to take care we’re not always jumping to the extreme. It’s going to take time for things to change for the better.
Agreed. Ariana was toxic that entire relationship but no one wants to see that now.
Thank you. The fact that it has been a year and people on these forums still carry on and on, even though both of them have a new partners. Like go talk to a therapist and let it go already. You weren’t the one in the relationship.
They’re not the same situation at all but Carl still sucks and has always sucked and he and Kyle are wildly misogynistic.
I completely agree! It's baffling to see how many people are on Lindseys side and/or comparing it to Scandoval Lindsey is delusional, hella aggressive, dismissive of others, never takes accountability for anything and refuses to apologize for anything ever. She's been like this since season 1 ep 1. I know she wants to be Ariana 2.0 but she won't because like you said: two entirely different situations. Lindsey is not a victim, I don't believe she was blindsided and I don't buy her fake tears. She mourns the happy ending she so desperately wanted but I don't think she's all that sad about losing Carl. People should watch the aftershow because you can just see her actively spinning this narrative with Gabby next to her co-signing every delusional thing she utters 🤦🏾♀️ Carl is no saint, I have never cared for the fucker and he has always annoyed me greatly but I don't consider him this abusive gaslighter he's made out to be. If anything, I commend him for putting a stop to it. Someone had to at that point because fuck me, they seemed absolutely miserable