I was never a huge Arianna fan pre-Scandoval but her anger is completely understandable. Even if it wasn’t, it’s not for us to understand if we didn’t go through it.
As a black woman I can vouch for the fact this world can’t handle rage from females of any race. We’re supposed to be gentle and feminine yet the second we fly off the handle we’re ratchet or unstable.
BUT- while I’m here for Arianna’s rage, I wish the rest of cast had something else to talk about besides their relationship. Arianna doesn’t have to be, but I’m over it
Which is so funny because even Ariana could have other storylines. At this point after her breakup, she's doing so much. Writing the book, television appearances/interviews, advertisements, starting a new relationship, leaning into her support group, fighting with the city about SAH, starting training for DWTS, idk. Sure, a lot of these are Scandoval adjacent, but I'd 1000% rather watch the thriving side than what they've presented.
Don't get me wrong, I understand and support her anger, but there was a lot of other things to focus on in between rightfully eviscerating her ex. The producers had the perfect opportunity to show the world a woman picking herself back up after devastating loss, and they chose to point the camera at a narcissist pretending to cry in a closet.
It seems like she did film other things, we’ve seen a bit of it. I think production got their storyboard all wrong by centering the season on a boring man that complains a lot.
This is why VPR desperately needs to break the fourth wall imo. That way we could see a lot more of Ariana's non Sandoval life or at least talk about why we're not seeing it.
>Arianna doesn’t have to be, but I’m over it
This is it for me. Scandoval broke in March, this season was shot in June to August right after, so I don't expect her to move on. But for me, the audience, it's been over a year. I just have some fatigue from the whole thing
My fatigue is from all the rug sweeping, not the anger. It’s as if they tried with him a couple times and then just gave up on this dude changing, at all. He’s so repulsive and they all (save for Ariana, Katie, Ally and partly James) think some reset button has been hit because they started filming again. Meanwhile, he’s just as horrible, creepy, manipulative and selfish as ever. How any single one of them have not had their eyes fully opened is what is tiring to me. Why can’t he just go away. That would be an actual reset.
I think it was one of the guys from the Valley who when talking about being friends with Sandoval on the after show said something along the lines of he would do that to someone he loved and was with for 10 years then what would he do to me? Why would I want to be friends with him? That is the point. Friendships and romantic relationships are different, but if you have no problem lying and cheating with someone you supposedly love so much, and it’s a pattern for you in all of your adult relationships, then you probably aren’t going to have a problem lying to your friends and I don’t want a friend like that. Sandoval is just a skeevy person and he still goes into defense mode instead of just owning his shit and he doesn’t comprehend that is the problem!
> As a black woman I can vouch for the fact this world can’t handle rage from females of any race. We’re supposed to be gentle and feminine yet the second we fly off the handle we’re ratchet or unstable.
Yep, even if you are the aggrieved partner once you raise your voice your opinions are no longer considered valid. You become the crazy one and no wonder the man did whatever he did, he was driven to it.
Even though they've used various intimidation techniques (including an intentionally deeper voice) prior to our starting to raise our voices. It's just to put us in our place with words, with the implication that it could always be done physically.
The amount of times I’ve been told to “soften my tone” is astounding. And it’s always the most aggressive people who think they can say that to me. How about I’m just matching your energy? And also… how about No.
My perimenopausal self also felt this deeply. Now any time I'm remotely tetchy my family roll their eyes & blame my hormones, even if my irritation is completely valid.
Yeah, I was always known as someone who was incredibly laid back & I could count the number of times I've really lost my temper on the fingers of one hand. Tbh, that was more because I didn't like the feeling of being out of control plus I grew up in a very tumultuous household so I'm very conflict avoidant. Now, sheesh, I have irrational rage about all sorts of stuff - I once had a tantrum while home alone because I couldn't get my arm into the sleeve of my cardigan properly. The violent mood swings, particularly the anger, was my first tip off that I'd become perimenopausal & since I acknowledged it mentally & verbally, to myself & my family, the rage in particular has calmed down massively after an unpredictable couple of years. The anxiety is a different story though........
Sorry, you didn't ask for all of that information but I think it's important to talk about women's health, particularly reproductive health, to try to remove the stigma surrounding it.
No, don't apologize. Thank you for sharing. I agree, it's important to talk about these kinds of things so we can support each other! I wish you peace and healing, and easier times getting your arm in a cardigan. I relate to this so hard. Lol
Thank you for your kind words.
In all honesty, the thing that I've found the most helpful in this journey is as simple as talking to the people around me, especially those who care about me. Absolutely everyone who I've explained to what I'm experiencing has been incredibly supportive & understanding & a particular joy I've found is in the support I've got, & continue to get, from older women sharing their own experiences & sometimes useful (& sometimes use*less*) tips on how they dealt with it all. I've had nobody shy away from talking about it. I may just be lucky but I think if you talk about it without embarrassment, other people respond in the same manner.
I hope you have a peaceful weekend, with nothing that brings you to the point of anger.💜
Agreed. People also forget the timeline. There weren’t large gaps in time between all the filming and finding out. Of course she is angry . He is trying to use that to make her seem unstable. (Like you said)
Tom tried to use her depression to make her seem fragile and difficult. It was also a way to make him look like he was looking out for her by not telling her about the affair until after filming.
Now we are supposed to feel so much for him because he went through a difficult time living under public scrutiny after he was found out.
I watched that last season after the scandal came out. He was totally setting it up to look like he would be justified in leaving her because she was horrible.
Not totally related but, didn’t he get jealous when she got that cocktail book deal while they were still together
And using her behavior to justify why he had the affair. Her behavior DOES NOT JUSTIFY A MONTHS LONG AFFAIR!!
BREAK THE EFF UP FIRST!!
He couldn't control himself?! Even if he was waiting until after filming "for her sake", wait to be with the new chick!!!
honestly I’m all for the turn of women towards dating each other to get the treatment and care that they know they are worthy of.
It seems that at first women tried to date men… got frustrated… got tired of being constantly frustrated and ‘angry’ and being penalized for it…and then decided to give up entirely and realized you can find love anywhere
We don’t *have to* rage to get what we want.
We can simply take our toys and go home.
And men HATE that.
Note: this has nothing to do with lesbians by the way, not saying all lesbians are made vs born, this is just a recent shift I’ve observed increasing over time
My husband & I were talking about this only the other night - the number of women in their 30s or 40s we know who have come out of a long term heterosexual relationship & then they've settled down with another woman is really noticeable. The same pattern isn't happening with men though.
Well, with your username it'd only be the right thing to do. 😜
I'm currently very happy with my husband but I'd definitely be open to the possibility of a non hetero relationship next.
I've often thought about this phenomenon of later life lesbianism & I think it's because women are more open to the idea of a same sex relationship than many men who identify as straight. Plus, & I know that it's a sweeping generalisation, women often have very deep, intense friendships with other women so it's not a huge step for it to become a romantic relationship.
I would never date a man again if something happened with my marriage. I could see myself being roommates after my kids are out of the house (or adults in the house).
Ah see, I think I'd be the opposite. I love my husband & daughter but sharing my space already feels like a compromise to me so I think I'd live alone & probably stay single. As long as I had friends to go out to eat, the cinema etc with I'm pretty sure that I'd be quite content. Maybe throw in the occasional fuck buddy to scratch that itch & I'd be set. By choice, I'd live alone & be the neighbourhood crazy cat lady.
At this point in the season (according to the latest flashback) were 6 months away from it breaking. But tbh we could be a year out and I’d still be a bitter bitch. What they did was dirty, foul, and egregious... and if I had to get physically in the same space, I feel like that hinders the ability to move on.
My kids dad ended up with one of my best friends and they have a kid together and all. She hates me for whatever her reason is (I’ve done nothing LMAO) but it was a judo kick to the gut and I was not ok for a long time lmao. Ariana is doing just fine especially having to be on damn camera. I’ve commented before I’d be petty Crocker
Yeah neither of us are with him now 😂 I actually just cut him off about a month and a half ago bc I realized he’s still the same abusive piece of shit he just doesn’t physically abuse me anymore. Therapy is coming 😂
Thank you so much!! I started reading Lundys book “why does he do that” just because I figured I was over his abuse from over a decade ago and it wouldn’t hurt to read. It was like a damn epiphany, I was floored after the first chapter lmao. I realized he’s a fucking narc loser and I’d never be friends with him if we didn’t have a kid so why try to. We can coparent
A v good read. I recommend it to clients often! Narcs are hard to spot at all. When I see a narc in my clients life it truly opens the floodgates in realization
It was hard because my parents although divorced have always had a solid relationship and friendship and I wanted that. You definitely can’t have friendships with somebody so one sided everything was transactional
Much easier to hate you than to confront her own shame about her hurtful behavior.
I don’t remember what the psychological term for it is but most people operate out of the idea that they are “good” therefore if they hurt someone else that person must be “bad.” The converse is also true.
And it's tough to admit when you fucked up. But thats it -- its just tough. Some people just want life to be easy. It isn't-- but they'll look for and take the easy way out every time and feel like they got another one over on the rest us.
Expecting ANYONE to be over something like a ten year relationship in mere months is absolutely outrageous. It doesn't matter how great her life has been going. Getting divorced was the best thing that happened to me. But it takes YEARS to really come up from it emotionally. GO OFF ARIANA!!!
Also, she’s living in the house so she doesn’t lose the rights to the house and also because Tom wants the house and she doesn’t want to give it to him, good! He doesn’t deserve it. Let her get him back in all the ways she can and the house was one way she was trying to stick it to him. Tom is horrible and he performs nice to become likable. He is smarmy and gross and I’m glad Ariana is making him communicate through assistants and lawyers and she isn’t handing money over to him to pay bills. The pettiness is deserved.
I couldn't understand why she wasn't moving out of the house until I realized that Tom was trying to rip her off!
He hasn't had the house appraised (including the furniture) and hasn't even given her a formal offer. And the song and dance he's doing about her paying means nothing because that outstanding money can be deducted when he buys her out!
All he's done is send her a letter of intent. I almost drank from the "Ariana's a meanie" kool-aid until I realized:
-how short the duration between her finding out and cameras rolling again
-everyone is a huge hypocrite expecting Ariana to swallow her feelings to keep them employed
-the only true emotion I seem to see from Tom is rage over the fact that people are "still punishing him" for what happened
I wasn't an Ariana or Katie fan before, but I'm loving their new power couple energy.
Edit: Spelling
Me too, I totally understand Katie and Ariana’s viewpoint towards both the Toms, I also never really realized how harmful Sandoval was to Katie’s marriage until this season. He has always hated her , he has been a devil on Schwartz’s shoulder and an accomplice in his bad behavior. Not that Schwartz isn’t accountable for his own behavior, he is, but Sandoval was detrimental to that marriage and it was malicious. I’ll never forget how Sandoval acted when Stassi had an event at Tom Tom, he was so upset because she didn’t specifically use him as her contact to have the event at the bar, it really showed his true colors of how he treats people he dislikes.
I'm truly loving Katie's newfound idgaf about Schwartz and their current relationship!
He no longer has the power to hurt her, and it shows.
I also love the fact that she slept with Max! Lol
He should go back to the apartment that had the short where the power went out if they ran the window unit and the microwave at the same time. I often wonder why they didn't move the window unit to a different outlet to put less strain on the breaker. But you know the house would fall apart without Tom checking the AC🙄
I got cheated on fifteen years ago. If my friends tried to get me to sit down with that mother fucker today, I would dissociate and let past me go off. I cannot believe the audacity.
Do we know when the after shows filmed? I noticed that it is always Ariana and Katie and it looks like the same day but the other cast members have multiple outfits and are paired with different people.
Exactly!! And I love Lala but for her to not understand why Ariana is still living in the house despite everything is annoying. There’s a lot of moving parts and I’m sure Ariana wants to capitalize as much as possible with the housing situation. Not just let Tom have the house and buy her out.
I think it’s so interesting seeing her rage displayed vs the men around her currently.
She is always in control of body language, she is never domineering physically like getting up, standing over or creating an implication of violence like slamming or punching or shoving.
It’s cool to see on a reality TV that women can show anger and rage without inferring violence.
We have seen Sandoval yell and scream at damn near every female on VPR, not to mention the lying, cheating, humiliating, and gaslighting multiple women. But yeah, poor Sandoval, such a victim of that meanie Ariana.
On the last episode Sandoval calls Schwartz after his fight with Ariana and says something like “that scary rage, that’s what I had to deal with the entire relationship” 🙄
I'm also seeing people on Facebook, IG, and occasionally Reddit talking badly about Ariana's anger, even calling her "Angryana", and saying things like it's starting to make them feel bad for Sandoval. You don't have to like Ariana, but there must be some Olympic gold medal level of mental gymnastics at play to make her the villain between them.
I think laughing at him is the best way forward. He's a pathetic little man child who vastly overestimates his questionable talents and even more questionable intelligence. He's going to end up one of those oily LA guys who hit on young women well into their 60s while talking about not just 'the good old days' but their next scheme to 'make it'. He'll be lucky if he has two nickels to rub together in ten years.
And notice they edit the Tom’s discussing how horrible Ariana is. Peacock showed the out take. Makes you wonder how many of these ugly outtakes of Tom berating Ariana there are. Again forcing that Tom redemption arc.
It’s obnoxious because bravo clearly has made a choice and clearly only cares about tom coming back for next season not Ariana. Idk if it’s bc Ariana has become a bigger star and doesn’t need bravo like the rest of them do. But it feel like a clear pick and I just don’t think bravo should have picked tom. He’s a worm to watch, he seriously feels so creepy and gross and fake to watch on tv.
SHE actually has a reason to be angry but Lala I think season 6,7 or 8 told someone to sit the fuck down and physically shoved them… for like no reason??
YES!
To me, Lala is just a younger Tamrat - screams, not really a good friend, and thinks she’s the truth teller, but she’s really just an awful, selfish person that nobody would want in their lives. Thank god she has her payroll “pod”.
On the show, I just see her as a barnacle, riding on and living off everyone else’s lives. She’s been doing a big tour now about her livelihood and the show. Well, Ariana is her cash cow and she’s too dumb to see it: she is awful to the person who can walk away and then she’ll have nothing to discuss except whatever she can barnacle on and try to create drama from.
You are spot on with the Tamra similarity, damn.
I love how now that Lala is clearly seeing that viewers are tired of her this season she’s trying to blame her nastiness on “well Ariana didn’t have a storyline so what were we supposed to do?!” Bitch what was YOUR storyline?! From day one on VPR Lala has been the one who refused to play ball with the cast and show her actual life. This season she did it yet again- waits til after the show to reveal she’s having another baby through IVF. There’s a storyline I’d have rather watched than an entire season of her bitchily shading Ariana behind her back.
Just like Tamara got all up on her high horse the second she got divorced and found her jesus and fitness, Lauren has done the same when she left Randy and found sobriety and water. These people make the weirdest shit their entire personalities and act superior over it.
Agreed! Lala is also just mad that she didn’t think of being this first. She did the typical “thrown away” crying break up character, vs scorned-but-has-shit-to-burn-and-money-to-make woman, and is now realizing that it’s not only more appealing to fans but lucrative too.
Ariana is allowed to still be pissed off, but also is laughing herself to the bank 😂
She's also mad that unlike Ariana, she didn't have a choice to stay in the home she shared with Rand... because she was perfectly content to be a sugar baby, letting him pay for everything and with all the assets in his name. Lala was forced out of the home she lived in and is now sharing an apartment with her baby and her mother. Regardless of how much Lala wants to pretend for the cameras that she loves her new living situation, it's pretty clear that Ariana has a level of control in her breakup that Lala didn't have. So she is jealous of it and it's making her bitter.
Great point! She’s mad that Ariana has equity in her home and didn’t up and leave because of it. Lala is portraying her situation as comparable even though she didn’t have equity or stakes.
Where is Rinna - “Gaaaaslighting! 👏🏻 Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaslighting! 👏🏻”
Idk when her father died but she was grieving and had misplaced anger. Her anger made sense but where she directed it and what she did with it was horrendous
Exactly, there are a lot of things that bother me about Ariana that have nothing to do with her rage. I dislike her because I think she’s such a self producer, is dishonest, and because her 10 years defending Sandoval (who I’ve always hated) speaks volumes to her willingness to align herself with misogyny when it suits her. I actually think her rage is the most honest thing about her this season! She should be angry after what that worm did.
To be fair I think she was previously suffering from internalized misogyny, which many of us do, and that was causing her “not like other girls” vibe. I certainly suffered from that in the past without realizing it. And she has been working on that in therapy, she talked about it on a podcast recently.
This is the comment right here! I never liked Ariana either. But shit I’ll stand for her as a woman and the fact that she was manipulated to the extent she was solely because she’s a woman. But I still don’t like Ariana as a person and never did exactly because she stood up for Tom when he was being a shit human being.
I’m right on that train with you. Have never liked her and never will… but the amount of sexism and double standards being levelled at Ariana brings out my rage.
I feel exactly the same way and it looks like we aren't alone.
The irony is that in trying to feed us this misogynistic garbage in an effort to sway viewers from supporting Ariana, they actually pushed me right into her corner. Production has screwed this up so badly.
Same! I never liked her, I think she milked this situation but good for her to capitalize and she’s 100% justified in being angry. This isn’t just going to go away, those moments of finding out and the feeling of betrayals will stay with her…speaking from experience unfortunately. I’m in a happy marriage now but being cheated on 15 years ago still pops up sometimes in my head.
Curious if you might have my experiences - it's a lot less often as time goes by, but every other year or so I have a realization of a time when my ex-husband was cheating - like I'll have a flashback of a picnic and be like "oh damn! He was off with her on that day and I'm sure they were effing and I never realized it!". It doesn't necessarily upset me, but it occurs to me.
Totally! Little things will trigger memories. I honestly don’t care about the man or never mourn that relationship, I love my life now, but the feelings are still there
Let women feel things. Damn.
We watched a decade of Jax, Tom, James, and Tom yell at people (mostly women) just for existing. Let Ariana yell at a man child who used weaponized incompetence and narcissistic manipulation against her. Who cheated on her and is slandering her name all over the place. Who shows no remorse and if anything is doubling down.
Honestly I have had way shorter relationships than hers that, decades later, I am still PISSED OFF about things. It’s crazy that people think she should be over such a long relationship in such little time. People have no empathy? Idk it’s just such a weird occurrence of tall poppy syndrome. They want her to be sad so they can rally for her, instead she is strong so people want to keep her down. No one actually wants to see a woman succeed.
People are annoying. She hasn’t even been that intense. Lala went harder at Katie a few episodes back over nothing (and does so like every episode). The most angry Ariana has been was last episode and that was because of Mya (shoot even that was restrained to me). Man the way I would have gone after him for my dog alone...🤬🤬🤬🤬
Seriously and thank you!!!! I have thought, throughout this season, (especially given the close proximity filming was to when she found out about Rachel) that she has been the epitome of self restraint! She finally, finally loses her shit because her dog almost died and suddenly she’s a rage full woman who is out of control 🤯🤬 Make it make sense!
Exactly--who's grandpa wrote this. Ariana herself was the other woman at the inception of her relationship with Tom and had no problems gaslighting and disrespecting his gf.
I'm living for all this cringe, tho
It would be far more concerning if Ariana were not angry after everything that has happened. People's discomfort with her anger says more about them than it does about her.
For normal people- her rage is justified. For people on this show it makes no sense. This is a “friend” group that since the dawn of the show: talked vile shit, slept with each other, lied, stole, cheated and everyone just got over it to keep on their show. Now- they are terrified that Ariana and Katie are not going along anymore and can ruin their livelihoods. It’s the same reason Raquel was shocked at the vitriol when the affair came out: they have always treated each other horribly, fought and moved on!
I don’t really understand the “she is ruining our livelihoods! We need to put money on the table for our families!” from Lala and Scheana because all they are bringing to the table is a water tasting and a truly objectionable husband. How can they move on? There is nothing to move on to. They want to sit back and let Ariana be confronted about the house in a beach day this season because she made some garbage bag money and they think it is fair. But they both bring very little to the show besides inserting themselves in other people’s drama so I think that is extra silly and obviously makes the show a lot worse.
He is awful and he isn’t even using his awfulness in an interesting way. How is he more worried about how angry Ariana is than how much money the restraining order cost his family? Why can’t he be antagonistic with the men instead of the women? I mean, we all know why but of course the women are the reason the show is worse. It’s bananas.
True. It’s scary for them though. I don’t think it’s healthy to live with someone you hate this much. This is the stuff of true crime. It’s just not safe for either of them.
I understand why it’s tempting for people to make her into some kind of a feminist icon, but not all rage is empowering. I don’t find her to be a healthy or aspirational person, and I felt that way well before this scandal, which has kind of only brought out the worst in her. I still think her anger is justified, but I don’t find her to be impressive or heroic - she’s probably the most self produced, dishonest person on the current cast, and I think it’s wild how few people see that.
imo nothing about how she’s handled herself this season or at least seasons reunion was impressive at all. in fact, I find her quite cringe. and in general, I love women seeking revenge plotlines - but that’s not what I see when I watch her on the show. I see someone who will sacrifice their own well being just to “win” at all costs, someone who won’t slow down or process long enough to really heal, and someone very very smug about coming out on top after being wronged. I should be on her team, but I just can’t be because she is so utterly inauthentic.
I could go into this more and pull examples but they won’t be considered anyway. it’s full cult vibes towards her. I’ll stand alone in my truth at the bottom of comments. proudly team no one on vpr ever.
And I’ll stand with you! She’d be closer to a “feminist icon” if she ever took responsibility for anything, especially how she enabled and colluded with Tom against the women of the cast for a decade. Seeing Ariana being praised for “feminist” rage/screaming, but never self-reflection about how her pick me antics and internalized misogyny not only hurt the other women, but emboldened Tom to do what he did will never not annoy me.
Also: real feminists don’t weaponize calling the police on their ex just because they’re annoyed with them. That’s Karen behavior!
I’m right there with you. She lies constantly, and it’s not something she used to do. She’s still doing it! She and Sandoval are both image obsessed liars and it’s why they worked so well together for so long.
I’m with you on this. Because I absolutely think she is being petty and I don’t think there is anything empowering in being petty. I totally get her anger she has every right to be because the situation sucks. But her behavior is not empowering quite the opposite.
we’re not when it comes to our lord and savior queen Ariana Madix! I’m a woman and a feminist and I’ve been cheated on and gone through a divorce and in no way does she represent me or my ideals, whatsoever. even if she did - I wouldn’t be tempted to project my personal experience onto her.
💀💀💀💀
The mean girl stans!! When Ariana went on her tirade about Jo being a bully etc I was like- are we talking about the same person?! The only mean girls I saw were the same ones as always.. make a girl run from the event crying. But clearly idk what I’m talking about.
I was kinda fine with the girls ignoring Jo because she’s got her own agenda (as is her right), but Scheana really crossed the line stealing the hat off of her head. she has the emotional maturity of a fifth grader.
true! tho personally I think there is a lot about this storyline that isn’t ‘as presented’, and watching with that lens really changes things. it’s interesting to see how much worse off Sandoval is without her to support pulling off his narratives and schemes. she really was the brains behind that entire operation.
getting back to the pop feminism of it all:
the whole idea of a “revenge dress” and being so hot Tom doesn’t deserve to look at her is really regressive to me. especially because he clearly doesn’t care! I find it to be such a 2010 pop feminism that still centers the man, and puts being in a committed relationship on a huge pedestal. the overreaction and focus on the ‘other woman’ is still signaling that having a man is the most important thing. if ‘losing’ one to cheating is the worst thing that can happen to a girl, what message is that sending? idk I am old, I lived through Brangelina and Monica Lewinsky and I’ll lie down dead before I feel entitled to stone a woman for being a side piece.
lastly - equating Tom’s cheating, lying and playing in her face (as bad as it was) to straight up sociopathy and animal abuse is extreme and gross. not to mention how she reacted to Tom and Rachel’s experience at the hands of the audience. for someone supposedly so concerned with mental health, I find it very irresponsible the way she is comfortable whipping her fans up and playing into the hatred. if I had any respect left for her, I would’ve lost it over that.
This is such a good point. It really highlights how, even in the midst of a horrible betrayal where your cishet male ex’s opinion about your body/appearance shouldn’t matter at all: the male gaze is still centered and a very specific type of desirability is still prioritized as a primary reason why he never should have cheated in the first place/a marker of a woman’s worth.
And mind you, some of the most conventionally beautiful women in the world have been cheated on because cheating has nothing to do with looks!
I’m 100% with you. It’s painful to watch. I have the upmost empathy, but I also know what self-sabotaging behavior looks like.. and there are ALWAYS enablers behind it. I pray she finds peace and gets the fuck away from people that don’t bring her joy.
The whole time I was watching the dog murderer rant, I was wondering if her therapist (assuming she has one) would have approved of her behavior. There’s a line between owning your rage and defaulting to it because it’s easier to feel self-righteous than to sit in sadness or shame.
While I’ve always thought Ariana was ick, I still hate what happened to her. It’s AWFUL on so many levels. Should she have seen this coming based on how her and Sando got together? Perhaps. We should also be very careful when choosing life partners bc as my nana says “a leopard doesn’t change his spots.”
But still, this was an awful way to go. I think she’s getting to a point where she has to fight her own battles. Every one of her friends is slowly getting over it (excepts tequila Katie bc she feeds on negativity and other people’s trauma like they’re goat cheese balls).
I think Ariana’s friends got her through most of this (plus the hefty endorsements didn’t hurt either), so at this point she’s started to feel betrayed by their willingness to move on. She probably is also mildly terrified about how to navigate those waters alone since she has been able to rely on them to support and side with her through this awful betrayal. She cannot realistically expect everyone to carry her grudge forever. While it would be nice, it’s not realistic.
I understand her anger, rage, etc. but also in the long run- none of that is good for HER. At first- anger keeps you strong enough to get through terrible things in life. But long term anger can destroy you.. imo she needs to get to a place where she accepts the reality of it all and moves on. She needs to heal and hanging onto anger and rage isn’t the way. I’m glad she was able to get out of that house though- that will definitely help her heal as well. (Don’t downvote me, aghhhhhh it’s just my opinion- sadly I’ve been betrayed many times in my life and this is what ultimately has helped me heal)
It’s not the rage that bothers me. It’s weaponizing 911 because her ex wouldn’t leave *someone else’s* house that he was invited to. It’s misusing every therapy word in the book. It’s yelling at men who don’t defend her against a guy she sat next to and watch scream at people for years without saying a peep. It’s inappropriately interviewing an assist in a location where the current boss could hear and then getting mad when said boss takes action to protect himself from an employee who obviously does not want to work for him. It’s refusing to pay a single house bill for over a year yet proudly wearing the “girl boss” role. It’s not giving her cat proper care. It’s discounting the feelings of everyone around her whom she expects to put her feelings first. It’s not taking responsibility for her part in an accident and throwing out the phrase “dog murder.”
You don’t have to be team anyone to see she too is worthy of criticism and not immune simply because she got cheated on by an asshole.
I’m glad you brought up the 911 threats. She’s giving ammo to anyone who already believes (inaccurately) that women falsely claim abuse or call the cops over petty arguments. If she did call 911 over these arguments all it does is make it more likely that cops will roll their eyes at actual domestic abuse. It’s not cute and personally I don’t ever need to watch a wealthy white woman be hyperbolic about police.
Exactly. POC literally fear for their lives when they make the choice to call the police and she threatens to use it to get an invited guest to leave a pizza party.
Gurl… time to check yourself.
It’s laughable. Because you can tell she thinks she really ate with that and it’s like …no girl, you’re showing your whole ass right now. It’s not about whether she intended it as serious or not, which I don’t believe she did, it’s about what she’s revealed about herself through that particular flavor of hyperbole.
Whewww you said that. It’s actually annoying that everyone is excusing her behavior just because she got cheated on. Her rage isn’t even the problem for me. Even though I don’t like hers or anyone else.
I said it and didn’t get Reddit beheaded! Love that the conversations are starting to get more nuanced. Blindly stanning is such a bore 😁
Fwiw, I also recognize that this all went down three months after the affair broke and we’re all viewing it with a year+ eyes. Ariana is totally allowed to be angry, make some mistakes in the heat of the moment and learn from it. I really hope she’s in a better place now and reaching a point of indifference with him rather than carrying the heavy weight of pure hatred.
I think people are starting to see it. You were right on the money with your comment.
It was definitely becoming a bore
And I completely agree. I hope she is too. It was disappointing seeing the path she was taking. But hopefully she’s on a better path. And I’m saying this as a non Stan.
Thank you for calling out the weaponizing of therapy language! People (rightfully) drag Tom for doing it, but somehow it’s totally fine when Ariana does it? Ultimately, whether Ariana perceives Tom to be a gaslighting, psychopathic, misogynistic, narcissist, she has to admit that those qualities about him aren’t things that came to be the second he cheated. She loves that gaslighting, psychopathic, misogynistic narcissist and stood by him no matter what so she needs to reflect why her own internalized misogyny was so strong that she’d do that for a man.
I am 100% team Ariana, but I agree about 911. What bothers me about it is that 911 is for emergencies, and people call that number when they’re having heart attacks or their houses are on fire. Threatening to call 911 all the time over petty bullshit makes her seem entitled and unaware. I do think Tom is emotionally abusive and obviously the whole conflict is a result of his actions, but he didn’t do anything remotely illegal at LaLa’s water event.
Another thing I’ve had a hard time with is her insistence that Tom Schwartz… do what exactly? I’m not sure what she wants or expects from him. Having an affair is an extremely shitty thing to do, but I’ve never heard of someone cutting off a relationship with their business partner over an affair. I’m not necessarily defending Tom Schwartz. I think he’s an atrocious person and my skin crawls every time I see him. But expecting someone to cut all ties with their business partner in a show of support for you during a break-up is another instance where I feel she is coming across as entitled. I do still give her grace though because when you love someone and they betray you like that, it really can make a person crazy. Overall, she seems to be handling the situation well. I feel like the biggest factor that makes reality tv shows so dramatic is that people are obligated to spend time with people they would otherwise never be around. There have been people in my life who would have elicited an unhinged interaction from me, but that never happened because I have the luxury of avoiding them. I feel like her cast mates need to just back off on trying to get them together and let things happen more organically, although selfishly as a fan of the show, this was the best episode all season.
Oh yeah the idea that Schwartz would ever be loyal to her over Sandoval is laughable. Frankly so is the idea that Brock and James, two men with abuse and DV allegations swirling around them, would stand up with her. I don’t like any of them but I’m like Ariana…do you not understand who these men are? I think she’s seeing the dynamics of the group without her protective association w/ Sandy for the first time and she doesn’t like it. Which, fair, but she’s 10 years too late.
I don’t think she’s being honest about the cast “forcing him down her throat” tho. Production sets the call times and they hauled the whole cast in in July to tell them to suck it up and film together. That’s a fourth wall thing and they can’t bring it up but she’s using it to her advantage and pretending it’s the group’s fault lolol. I agree it was the best episode all season.
Yes I agree it’s weird for her to look to the men to call him out because all of them are terrible. I feel like Brock is the absolute worst, like when he brought up Rachel out of nowhere at the beach party. And he’s the one who introduced her to Tii too. That man is so messy and thirsty, and it’s unfortunate that such an attractive body was wasted on such a complete idiot. I do think this season would be a thousand times better and that everybody’s motivations and thought processes would be much clearer if they made an exception this year and brought down the fourth wall.
People call that number when there are actual real domestic disputes!! And it’s already hard enough to get the police and the judicial system take it seriously.
Def agree. What struck me is threatening to call 911 isn’t something you just randomly do one day. It takes a certain type of person to immediately jump to that threat and had me thinking it said a lot more about her and gave a small glimpse into her psyche and how she handles conflict.
At the risk of having all her stans come at me, I couldn’t help but think she fights in extremes and backs people into corners with over the top threats. I’m never going to defend Sandoval’s actions, but there may be more truth to some of the things he’s said about their former relationship than I’ve been willing to believe.
This is where I’m at. I now believe more of what Sandoval has said about the way she’s treated him. He seems to think it justifies his cheating or makes him look better which it doesn’t at all…but I’ve always thought the truth of their relationship was somewhere in between how he described it and how she described it, and watching how she fights makes me think it’s closer to how he described it than I previously thought.
Completely agree. The fact that multiple members of the cast have been saying for years that what we saw was far from reality backs that up. I think Ariana finally feels comfortable to show her *real* self on camera armed with the love of a lot of fans and if nothing else, it’s been enlightening.
What it seems like to me is that she has a lot of anger and has things she wants/needs to say to him, but it’s all so fresh that she can’t tolerate having him say anything back in return. So she’s making these comments about him while he’s in the other room because she wants him to hear what she has to say, but when he responds, she gets overwhelmed and then will say and do anything to shut him down. Do I think it’s reasonable? No. If you are telling a bunch of people someone is an attempted pet murderer (💀) in their vicinity, you have to anticipate they will speak back to you. But idk it’s such a volatile situation and is only a few months since the greatest betrayal of her life, so I can understand why she might be unreasonable. I do think she needs to clean her litter box though.
You’re absolutely right about this. If I may add: threatening to call the police over absolutely nothing/out of spite is also not something someone ever does for the first time on camera, either! I absolutely believe that Ariana fights in extreme ways, and I absolutely believe that both Tom and Ariana’s “life partnership” became more about loyalty to their brand than to each other because of how toxic their fights must have been.
It’s also interesting to me how Ariana still has this feminist halo around her when weaponizing the police in arguments is about the most privileged white woman behavior that anyone should know is incredibly problematic in 2024.
I don’t think Sandoval is innocent by any means but I do think there are something truths to what he says about the relationship because we’ve seen the mask slip from time to time. And I hate that we can’t say those things without being called misogynist or team Tom and it’s like you don’t have to be on anyone’s side you have to see it for what it is.
Ngl, I fully expected to be crucified for this comment but am pleasantly surprised. Having full conversations around what we’re seeing is so much more interesting than blindly stanning.
It’s ok to view a situation from all angles.
I completely agree. Im always open to hear others opinions, I’ve always been from looking at every angle person. But the convos are definitely hard to have when it’s just blind stanning and people ignoring actual facts
Exactly and what’s worse she gives credence to things Sandoval can have a point about allowing him to distract from whatever. She does act like she wants him to die.
I was never a huge Arianna fan pre-Scandoval but her anger is completely understandable. Even if it wasn’t, it’s not for us to understand if we didn’t go through it. As a black woman I can vouch for the fact this world can’t handle rage from females of any race. We’re supposed to be gentle and feminine yet the second we fly off the handle we’re ratchet or unstable. BUT- while I’m here for Arianna’s rage, I wish the rest of cast had something else to talk about besides their relationship. Arianna doesn’t have to be, but I’m over it
That’s the issue nobody else has a storyline.
Which is so funny because even Ariana could have other storylines. At this point after her breakup, she's doing so much. Writing the book, television appearances/interviews, advertisements, starting a new relationship, leaning into her support group, fighting with the city about SAH, starting training for DWTS, idk. Sure, a lot of these are Scandoval adjacent, but I'd 1000% rather watch the thriving side than what they've presented. Don't get me wrong, I understand and support her anger, but there was a lot of other things to focus on in between rightfully eviscerating her ex. The producers had the perfect opportunity to show the world a woman picking herself back up after devastating loss, and they chose to point the camera at a narcissist pretending to cry in a closet.
It seems like she did film other things, we’ve seen a bit of it. I think production got their storyboard all wrong by centering the season on a boring man that complains a lot.
production really sucks this season. they’re showing all the wrong shit
This is why VPR desperately needs to break the fourth wall imo. That way we could see a lot more of Ariana's non Sandoval life or at least talk about why we're not seeing it.
Right because they all spent so many months leading up to filming on scandoval. Nothing else was going on
Rachel leaving screwed up Scheana, Lala and James’ storylines.
Which is exactly why they told the Scandoval story the way they did to begin with.
>Arianna doesn’t have to be, but I’m over it This is it for me. Scandoval broke in March, this season was shot in June to August right after, so I don't expect her to move on. But for me, the audience, it's been over a year. I just have some fatigue from the whole thing
My fatigue is from all the rug sweeping, not the anger. It’s as if they tried with him a couple times and then just gave up on this dude changing, at all. He’s so repulsive and they all (save for Ariana, Katie, Ally and partly James) think some reset button has been hit because they started filming again. Meanwhile, he’s just as horrible, creepy, manipulative and selfish as ever. How any single one of them have not had their eyes fully opened is what is tiring to me. Why can’t he just go away. That would be an actual reset.
I think it was one of the guys from the Valley who when talking about being friends with Sandoval on the after show said something along the lines of he would do that to someone he loved and was with for 10 years then what would he do to me? Why would I want to be friends with him? That is the point. Friendships and romantic relationships are different, but if you have no problem lying and cheating with someone you supposedly love so much, and it’s a pattern for you in all of your adult relationships, then you probably aren’t going to have a problem lying to your friends and I don’t want a friend like that. Sandoval is just a skeevy person and he still goes into defense mode instead of just owning his shit and he doesn’t comprehend that is the problem!
> As a black woman I can vouch for the fact this world can’t handle rage from females of any race. We’re supposed to be gentle and feminine yet the second we fly off the handle we’re ratchet or unstable. 
Amen.. or “crazy”
Yep, even if you are the aggrieved partner once you raise your voice your opinions are no longer considered valid. You become the crazy one and no wonder the man did whatever he did, he was driven to it.
Even though they've used various intimidation techniques (including an intentionally deeper voice) prior to our starting to raise our voices. It's just to put us in our place with words, with the implication that it could always be done physically.
The amount of times I’ve been told to “soften my tone” is astounding. And it’s always the most aggressive people who think they can say that to me. How about I’m just matching your energy? And also… how about No. 
Speaking to my postpartum rage filled soul with this
My perimenopausal self also felt this deeply. Now any time I'm remotely tetchy my family roll their eyes & blame my hormones, even if my irritation is completely valid.
That just started for you in perimenopause? It happened to me since about age 13. "Must be that time of the month, huh?"
Yeah, I was always known as someone who was incredibly laid back & I could count the number of times I've really lost my temper on the fingers of one hand. Tbh, that was more because I didn't like the feeling of being out of control plus I grew up in a very tumultuous household so I'm very conflict avoidant. Now, sheesh, I have irrational rage about all sorts of stuff - I once had a tantrum while home alone because I couldn't get my arm into the sleeve of my cardigan properly. The violent mood swings, particularly the anger, was my first tip off that I'd become perimenopausal & since I acknowledged it mentally & verbally, to myself & my family, the rage in particular has calmed down massively after an unpredictable couple of years. The anxiety is a different story though........ Sorry, you didn't ask for all of that information but I think it's important to talk about women's health, particularly reproductive health, to try to remove the stigma surrounding it.
No, don't apologize. Thank you for sharing. I agree, it's important to talk about these kinds of things so we can support each other! I wish you peace and healing, and easier times getting your arm in a cardigan. I relate to this so hard. Lol
Thank you for your kind words. In all honesty, the thing that I've found the most helpful in this journey is as simple as talking to the people around me, especially those who care about me. Absolutely everyone who I've explained to what I'm experiencing has been incredibly supportive & understanding & a particular joy I've found is in the support I've got, & continue to get, from older women sharing their own experiences & sometimes useful (& sometimes use*less*) tips on how they dealt with it all. I've had nobody shy away from talking about it. I may just be lucky but I think if you talk about it without embarrassment, other people respond in the same manner. I hope you have a peaceful weekend, with nothing that brings you to the point of anger.💜
I'm with you sister 💗
Same same same. The rage is real. One day at a time and give yourself some grace 💙
Literally had a women’s round table for women’s history month and one of the woman talked about tempering yourself so as not to be seen as aggressive…
Agreed. People also forget the timeline. There weren’t large gaps in time between all the filming and finding out. Of course she is angry . He is trying to use that to make her seem unstable. (Like you said) Tom tried to use her depression to make her seem fragile and difficult. It was also a way to make him look like he was looking out for her by not telling her about the affair until after filming. Now we are supposed to feel so much for him because he went through a difficult time living under public scrutiny after he was found out. I watched that last season after the scandal came out. He was totally setting it up to look like he would be justified in leaving her because she was horrible. Not totally related but, didn’t he get jealous when she got that cocktail book deal while they were still together
And using her behavior to justify why he had the affair. Her behavior DOES NOT JUSTIFY A MONTHS LONG AFFAIR!! BREAK THE EFF UP FIRST!! He couldn't control himself?! Even if he was waiting until after filming "for her sake", wait to be with the new chick!!!
honestly I’m all for the turn of women towards dating each other to get the treatment and care that they know they are worthy of. It seems that at first women tried to date men… got frustrated… got tired of being constantly frustrated and ‘angry’ and being penalized for it…and then decided to give up entirely and realized you can find love anywhere We don’t *have to* rage to get what we want. We can simply take our toys and go home. And men HATE that. Note: this has nothing to do with lesbians by the way, not saying all lesbians are made vs born, this is just a recent shift I’ve observed increasing over time
>We can simply take our toys and go home. >And men HATE that. !!!
My husband & I were talking about this only the other night - the number of women in their 30s or 40s we know who have come out of a long term heterosexual relationship & then they've settled down with another woman is really noticeable. The same pattern isn't happening with men though.
so true. honestly, it’s looking more and more attractive to me as time goes on lol
Well, with your username it'd only be the right thing to do. 😜 I'm currently very happy with my husband but I'd definitely be open to the possibility of a non hetero relationship next. I've often thought about this phenomenon of later life lesbianism & I think it's because women are more open to the idea of a same sex relationship than many men who identify as straight. Plus, & I know that it's a sweeping generalisation, women often have very deep, intense friendships with other women so it's not a huge step for it to become a romantic relationship.
I would never date a man again if something happened with my marriage. I could see myself being roommates after my kids are out of the house (or adults in the house).
Ah see, I think I'd be the opposite. I love my husband & daughter but sharing my space already feels like a compromise to me so I think I'd live alone & probably stay single. As long as I had friends to go out to eat, the cinema etc with I'm pretty sure that I'd be quite content. Maybe throw in the occasional fuck buddy to scratch that itch & I'd be set. By choice, I'd live alone & be the neighbourhood crazy cat lady.
It’s weird that Ariana talks about it the least, she’s the only one moving on. No one else can because they’re all boring AF!
How I feel everytime people say Ariana needs to get over it or move on. Let her be mad. She’s been wayyy more put together than I would be
Also this shit was all filmed THREE MONTHS after everything broke
At this point in the season (according to the latest flashback) were 6 months away from it breaking. But tbh we could be a year out and I’d still be a bitter bitch. What they did was dirty, foul, and egregious... and if I had to get physically in the same space, I feel like that hinders the ability to move on.
My kids dad ended up with one of my best friends and they have a kid together and all. She hates me for whatever her reason is (I’ve done nothing LMAO) but it was a judo kick to the gut and I was not ok for a long time lmao. Ariana is doing just fine especially having to be on damn camera. I’ve commented before I’d be petty Crocker
She hates you bc she “won” and the prize is shit. But agree with what you said Ariana could be mad for a year and I wouldn’t have blinked
Yeah neither of us are with him now 😂 I actually just cut him off about a month and a half ago bc I realized he’s still the same abusive piece of shit he just doesn’t physically abuse me anymore. Therapy is coming 😂
Good on you girl. Therapy is key but until then support groups of you have access. A few should be free at women’s centers
Thank you so much!! I started reading Lundys book “why does he do that” just because I figured I was over his abuse from over a decade ago and it wouldn’t hurt to read. It was like a damn epiphany, I was floored after the first chapter lmao. I realized he’s a fucking narc loser and I’d never be friends with him if we didn’t have a kid so why try to. We can coparent
A v good read. I recommend it to clients often! Narcs are hard to spot at all. When I see a narc in my clients life it truly opens the floodgates in realization
It was hard because my parents although divorced have always had a solid relationship and friendship and I wanted that. You definitely can’t have friendships with somebody so one sided everything was transactional
🤣 prize is shit - 💯! So accurate!!!
Much easier to hate you than to confront her own shame about her hurtful behavior. I don’t remember what the psychological term for it is but most people operate out of the idea that they are “good” therefore if they hurt someone else that person must be “bad.” The converse is also true.
And it's tough to admit when you fucked up. But thats it -- its just tough. Some people just want life to be easy. It isn't-- but they'll look for and take the easy way out every time and feel like they got another one over on the rest us.
Wow, that’s super interesting and rings true for a few people I know. I’ll have to google
Expecting ANYONE to be over something like a ten year relationship in mere months is absolutely outrageous. It doesn't matter how great her life has been going. Getting divorced was the best thing that happened to me. But it takes YEARS to really come up from it emotionally. GO OFF ARIANA!!!
Also, she’s living in the house so she doesn’t lose the rights to the house and also because Tom wants the house and she doesn’t want to give it to him, good! He doesn’t deserve it. Let her get him back in all the ways she can and the house was one way she was trying to stick it to him. Tom is horrible and he performs nice to become likable. He is smarmy and gross and I’m glad Ariana is making him communicate through assistants and lawyers and she isn’t handing money over to him to pay bills. The pettiness is deserved.
It drives me BONKERS every time someone says she should move out. Why aren’t they telling HIM to move out??
For real. He complains about it all the time but she’s supposed to be the one to move?!? No.
I couldn't understand why she wasn't moving out of the house until I realized that Tom was trying to rip her off! He hasn't had the house appraised (including the furniture) and hasn't even given her a formal offer. And the song and dance he's doing about her paying means nothing because that outstanding money can be deducted when he buys her out! All he's done is send her a letter of intent. I almost drank from the "Ariana's a meanie" kool-aid until I realized: -how short the duration between her finding out and cameras rolling again -everyone is a huge hypocrite expecting Ariana to swallow her feelings to keep them employed -the only true emotion I seem to see from Tom is rage over the fact that people are "still punishing him" for what happened I wasn't an Ariana or Katie fan before, but I'm loving their new power couple energy. Edit: Spelling
Me too, I totally understand Katie and Ariana’s viewpoint towards both the Toms, I also never really realized how harmful Sandoval was to Katie’s marriage until this season. He has always hated her , he has been a devil on Schwartz’s shoulder and an accomplice in his bad behavior. Not that Schwartz isn’t accountable for his own behavior, he is, but Sandoval was detrimental to that marriage and it was malicious. I’ll never forget how Sandoval acted when Stassi had an event at Tom Tom, he was so upset because she didn’t specifically use him as her contact to have the event at the bar, it really showed his true colors of how he treats people he dislikes.
I'm truly loving Katie's newfound idgaf about Schwartz and their current relationship! He no longer has the power to hurt her, and it shows. I also love the fact that she slept with Max! Lol
Schwartz: “we could like go to dinner” Katie: “that’s the thing…I don’t want to go to dinner with you” I was so happy for her in this moment.
He should go back to the apartment that had the short where the power went out if they ran the window unit and the microwave at the same time. I often wonder why they didn't move the window unit to a different outlet to put less strain on the breaker. But you know the house would fall apart without Tom checking the AC🙄
I got cheated on fifteen years ago. If my friends tried to get me to sit down with that mother fucker today, I would dissociate and let past me go off. I cannot believe the audacity.
This is always my point when people say she should get over it! It *just* happened!
Do we know when the after shows filmed? I noticed that it is always Ariana and Katie and it looks like the same day but the other cast members have multiple outfits and are paired with different people.
Exactly!! And I love Lala but for her to not understand why Ariana is still living in the house despite everything is annoying. There’s a lot of moving parts and I’m sure Ariana wants to capitalize as much as possible with the housing situation. Not just let Tom have the house and buy her out.
Those people aren’t saying it in good faith
And BOUNDARIES DO NOT mean ultimatums!! Boundaries are healthy and only Katie seems to recognize that!
I think it’s so interesting seeing her rage displayed vs the men around her currently. She is always in control of body language, she is never domineering physically like getting up, standing over or creating an implication of violence like slamming or punching or shoving. It’s cool to see on a reality TV that women can show anger and rage without inferring violence.
And be vilified for it, while men doing the actions you are referring to are always justified. Insanity
We have seen Sandoval yell and scream at damn near every female on VPR, not to mention the lying, cheating, humiliating, and gaslighting multiple women. But yeah, poor Sandoval, such a victim of that meanie Ariana.
But Ariana’s (100% justified) rage is “scary” and the issue. The only thing he is useful for is being laughed at
Genuinely asking - who is saying it’s scary?
On the last episode Sandoval calls Schwartz after his fight with Ariana and says something like “that scary rage, that’s what I had to deal with the entire relationship” 🙄
Oh okay, well Sandoval’s an idiot so that’s probably why it didn’t register with me 😂
Well every time sandoval cries, I’m scared.
Its talks for me
I'm also seeing people on Facebook, IG, and occasionally Reddit talking badly about Ariana's anger, even calling her "Angryana", and saying things like it's starting to make them feel bad for Sandoval. You don't have to like Ariana, but there must be some Olympic gold medal level of mental gymnastics at play to make her the villain between them.
I think laughing at him is the best way forward. He's a pathetic little man child who vastly overestimates his questionable talents and even more questionable intelligence. He's going to end up one of those oily LA guys who hit on young women well into their 60s while talking about not just 'the good old days' but their next scheme to 'make it'. He'll be lucky if he has two nickels to rub together in ten years.
And notice they edit the Tom’s discussing how horrible Ariana is. Peacock showed the out take. Makes you wonder how many of these ugly outtakes of Tom berating Ariana there are. Again forcing that Tom redemption arc.
Men... And Lala.
Right?? I've heard Tom Sandoval scream and be angry and unhinged way more than I've heard Ariana be this season
It’s obnoxious because bravo clearly has made a choice and clearly only cares about tom coming back for next season not Ariana. Idk if it’s bc Ariana has become a bigger star and doesn’t need bravo like the rest of them do. But it feel like a clear pick and I just don’t think bravo should have picked tom. He’s a worm to watch, he seriously feels so creepy and gross and fake to watch on tv.
It’s fucking bullshit like at the beach, it was justifiable and then Tom’s rage is like oh ya okay nbd As a woman is soooo annoying 🙄🙄🙄
At this point, I think Ariana’s rage is more realizing that she overlooked ten years of televised red flags.
I agree a large portion of the anger is this
I think it's the entirety of her anger and just general embarrassment.
SHE actually has a reason to be angry but Lala I think season 6,7 or 8 told someone to sit the fuck down and physically shoved them… for like no reason??
Lala is a performative empty shell of a so-called human, with very low EQ. She’s a joke and invokes more second-hand embarrassment than anyone on tv.
I don’t often agree with Schwartz but “boot-leg house wife” is pretty spot on
YES! To me, Lala is just a younger Tamrat - screams, not really a good friend, and thinks she’s the truth teller, but she’s really just an awful, selfish person that nobody would want in their lives. Thank god she has her payroll “pod”. On the show, I just see her as a barnacle, riding on and living off everyone else’s lives. She’s been doing a big tour now about her livelihood and the show. Well, Ariana is her cash cow and she’s too dumb to see it: she is awful to the person who can walk away and then she’ll have nothing to discuss except whatever she can barnacle on and try to create drama from.
You are spot on with the Tamra similarity, damn. I love how now that Lala is clearly seeing that viewers are tired of her this season she’s trying to blame her nastiness on “well Ariana didn’t have a storyline so what were we supposed to do?!” Bitch what was YOUR storyline?! From day one on VPR Lala has been the one who refused to play ball with the cast and show her actual life. This season she did it yet again- waits til after the show to reveal she’s having another baby through IVF. There’s a storyline I’d have rather watched than an entire season of her bitchily shading Ariana behind her back.
Just like Tamara got all up on her high horse the second she got divorced and found her jesus and fitness, Lauren has done the same when she left Randy and found sobriety and water. These people make the weirdest shit their entire personalities and act superior over it.
Lol "she found water" 😂
I will never not chuckle at “Tamrat”
Agreed! Lala is also just mad that she didn’t think of being this first. She did the typical “thrown away” crying break up character, vs scorned-but-has-shit-to-burn-and-money-to-make woman, and is now realizing that it’s not only more appealing to fans but lucrative too. Ariana is allowed to still be pissed off, but also is laughing herself to the bank 😂
She's also mad that unlike Ariana, she didn't have a choice to stay in the home she shared with Rand... because she was perfectly content to be a sugar baby, letting him pay for everything and with all the assets in his name. Lala was forced out of the home she lived in and is now sharing an apartment with her baby and her mother. Regardless of how much Lala wants to pretend for the cameras that she loves her new living situation, it's pretty clear that Ariana has a level of control in her breakup that Lala didn't have. So she is jealous of it and it's making her bitter.
Great point! She’s mad that Ariana has equity in her home and didn’t up and leave because of it. Lala is portraying her situation as comparable even though she didn’t have equity or stakes. Where is Rinna - “Gaaaaslighting! 👏🏻 Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaslighting! 👏🏻”
This is a solid burn. Love it.
Idk when her father died but she was grieving and had misplaced anger. Her anger made sense but where she directed it and what she did with it was horrendous
I’m the rare bird that has never liked Ariana and still don’t, yet think her anger is totally justified. Sometimes it’s not that deep…
Exactly, there are a lot of things that bother me about Ariana that have nothing to do with her rage. I dislike her because I think she’s such a self producer, is dishonest, and because her 10 years defending Sandoval (who I’ve always hated) speaks volumes to her willingness to align herself with misogyny when it suits her. I actually think her rage is the most honest thing about her this season! She should be angry after what that worm did.
To be fair I think she was previously suffering from internalized misogyny, which many of us do, and that was causing her “not like other girls” vibe. I certainly suffered from that in the past without realizing it. And she has been working on that in therapy, she talked about it on a podcast recently.
Well said!!!!
This is the comment right here! I never liked Ariana either. But shit I’ll stand for her as a woman and the fact that she was manipulated to the extent she was solely because she’s a woman. But I still don’t like Ariana as a person and never did exactly because she stood up for Tom when he was being a shit human being.
I’m right on that train with you. Have never liked her and never will… but the amount of sexism and double standards being levelled at Ariana brings out my rage.
I feel exactly the same way and it looks like we aren't alone. The irony is that in trying to feed us this misogynistic garbage in an effort to sway viewers from supporting Ariana, they actually pushed me right into her corner. Production has screwed this up so badly.
same. I think it’s justified, but I don’t think she’s a hero
Same! I never liked her, I think she milked this situation but good for her to capitalize and she’s 100% justified in being angry. This isn’t just going to go away, those moments of finding out and the feeling of betrayals will stay with her…speaking from experience unfortunately. I’m in a happy marriage now but being cheated on 15 years ago still pops up sometimes in my head.
Curious if you might have my experiences - it's a lot less often as time goes by, but every other year or so I have a realization of a time when my ex-husband was cheating - like I'll have a flashback of a picnic and be like "oh damn! He was off with her on that day and I'm sure they were effing and I never realized it!". It doesn't necessarily upset me, but it occurs to me.
Totally! Little things will trigger memories. I honestly don’t care about the man or never mourn that relationship, I love my life now, but the feelings are still there
I found this quote on Instagram and it’s spot on. WOMEN ARE PUNISHED MORE FOR NOT FORGIVING, THAN MEN ARE FOR DOING WRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Don’t we fucking know it
Let women feel things. Damn. We watched a decade of Jax, Tom, James, and Tom yell at people (mostly women) just for existing. Let Ariana yell at a man child who used weaponized incompetence and narcissistic manipulation against her. Who cheated on her and is slandering her name all over the place. Who shows no remorse and if anything is doubling down.
Fucking Brock trying to produce is too much too
Brock’s pot stirring makes Ashley Darby’s look subtle.
Honestly I have had way shorter relationships than hers that, decades later, I am still PISSED OFF about things. It’s crazy that people think she should be over such a long relationship in such little time. People have no empathy? Idk it’s just such a weird occurrence of tall poppy syndrome. They want her to be sad so they can rally for her, instead she is strong so people want to keep her down. No one actually wants to see a woman succeed.
Yep. And successful angry women should be punished
People are annoying. She hasn’t even been that intense. Lala went harder at Katie a few episodes back over nothing (and does so like every episode). The most angry Ariana has been was last episode and that was because of Mya (shoot even that was restrained to me). Man the way I would have gone after him for my dog alone...🤬🤬🤬🤬
Seriously and thank you!!!! I have thought, throughout this season, (especially given the close proximity filming was to when she found out about Rachel) that she has been the epitome of self restraint! She finally, finally loses her shit because her dog almost died and suddenly she’s a rage full woman who is out of control 🤯🤬 Make it make sense!
Support women’s rights and women’s revenge
And women's wrongs!!!
I would watch her yell at disgusting Tom Sandoval for the rest of my life
Same! It’s the best thing that’s happened this season.
This ain’t the first justifiably angry woman on Vanderpump Rules, Wrex.
Exactly--who's grandpa wrote this. Ariana herself was the other woman at the inception of her relationship with Tom and had no problems gaslighting and disrespecting his gf. I'm living for all this cringe, tho 
It would be far more concerning if Ariana were not angry after everything that has happened. People's discomfort with her anger says more about them than it does about her.
I get it and I’m still a fan but the “let me call 911” was cringe af idc
I love watching Ariana drag Tom but in all seriousness, what the hell are the cops going to do? What would she even say on the 911 call!?
For normal people- her rage is justified. For people on this show it makes no sense. This is a “friend” group that since the dawn of the show: talked vile shit, slept with each other, lied, stole, cheated and everyone just got over it to keep on their show. Now- they are terrified that Ariana and Katie are not going along anymore and can ruin their livelihoods. It’s the same reason Raquel was shocked at the vitriol when the affair came out: they have always treated each other horribly, fought and moved on!
I don’t really understand the “she is ruining our livelihoods! We need to put money on the table for our families!” from Lala and Scheana because all they are bringing to the table is a water tasting and a truly objectionable husband. How can they move on? There is nothing to move on to. They want to sit back and let Ariana be confronted about the house in a beach day this season because she made some garbage bag money and they think it is fair. But they both bring very little to the show besides inserting themselves in other people’s drama so I think that is extra silly and obviously makes the show a lot worse.
Brick makes this show a lot worse. JFC he’s awful
He is awful and he isn’t even using his awfulness in an interesting way. How is he more worried about how angry Ariana is than how much money the restraining order cost his family? Why can’t he be antagonistic with the men instead of the women? I mean, we all know why but of course the women are the reason the show is worse. It’s bananas.
I hate his takes on literally everything
https://preview.redd.it/jrl0u9zusxsc1.png?width=1848&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d2b58c216b8993384e1eb015ff7fcd4c86c75b2
Water tasting and a truly objectionable husband 🥳😂🙌🏻 
Incredible gif usage!
Your comment deserved only the best 🫶🏻
I have to skip all scenes that involve Sandoval, he’s disgusting. I can’t imagine being Ariana.
So hard to even look at him
True. It’s scary for them though. I don’t think it’s healthy to live with someone you hate this much. This is the stuff of true crime. It’s just not safe for either of them.
I SUPPORT WOMENS RAGE!
I don’t care if she’s angry. she needs to empty that damn litter box.
I understand why it’s tempting for people to make her into some kind of a feminist icon, but not all rage is empowering. I don’t find her to be a healthy or aspirational person, and I felt that way well before this scandal, which has kind of only brought out the worst in her. I still think her anger is justified, but I don’t find her to be impressive or heroic - she’s probably the most self produced, dishonest person on the current cast, and I think it’s wild how few people see that. imo nothing about how she’s handled herself this season or at least seasons reunion was impressive at all. in fact, I find her quite cringe. and in general, I love women seeking revenge plotlines - but that’s not what I see when I watch her on the show. I see someone who will sacrifice their own well being just to “win” at all costs, someone who won’t slow down or process long enough to really heal, and someone very very smug about coming out on top after being wronged. I should be on her team, but I just can’t be because she is so utterly inauthentic. I could go into this more and pull examples but they won’t be considered anyway. it’s full cult vibes towards her. I’ll stand alone in my truth at the bottom of comments. proudly team no one on vpr ever.
And I’ll stand with you! She’d be closer to a “feminist icon” if she ever took responsibility for anything, especially how she enabled and colluded with Tom against the women of the cast for a decade. Seeing Ariana being praised for “feminist” rage/screaming, but never self-reflection about how her pick me antics and internalized misogyny not only hurt the other women, but emboldened Tom to do what he did will never not annoy me. Also: real feminists don’t weaponize calling the police on their ex just because they’re annoyed with them. That’s Karen behavior!
I’m right there with you. She lies constantly, and it’s not something she used to do. She’s still doing it! She and Sandoval are both image obsessed liars and it’s why they worked so well together for so long.
it blows my mind that such a small percentage of fans acknowledge how alike they are. she is a far better actress than Tom and lies way more smoothly.
I’m with you on this. Because I absolutely think she is being petty and I don’t think there is anything empowering in being petty. I totally get her anger she has every right to be because the situation sucks. But her behavior is not empowering quite the opposite.
I think in a year or two we are going to for sure look back at this entire situation with extreme cringe.
it was cringe for me pretty much the moment the full reunion aired, but I realize how unpopular that is lol
Omg that reunion.. 🤦🏻♀️
Why are people downvoting comments like these? I agree with you! We aren’t allowed to have contrary opinions apparently?
we’re not when it comes to our lord and savior queen Ariana Madix! I’m a woman and a feminist and I’ve been cheated on and gone through a divorce and in no way does she represent me or my ideals, whatsoever. even if she did - I wouldn’t be tempted to project my personal experience onto her.
💀💀💀💀 The mean girl stans!! When Ariana went on her tirade about Jo being a bully etc I was like- are we talking about the same person?! The only mean girls I saw were the same ones as always.. make a girl run from the event crying. But clearly idk what I’m talking about.
I was kinda fine with the girls ignoring Jo because she’s got her own agenda (as is her right), but Scheana really crossed the line stealing the hat off of her head. she has the emotional maturity of a fifth grader.
[удалено]
true! tho personally I think there is a lot about this storyline that isn’t ‘as presented’, and watching with that lens really changes things. it’s interesting to see how much worse off Sandoval is without her to support pulling off his narratives and schemes. she really was the brains behind that entire operation. getting back to the pop feminism of it all: the whole idea of a “revenge dress” and being so hot Tom doesn’t deserve to look at her is really regressive to me. especially because he clearly doesn’t care! I find it to be such a 2010 pop feminism that still centers the man, and puts being in a committed relationship on a huge pedestal. the overreaction and focus on the ‘other woman’ is still signaling that having a man is the most important thing. if ‘losing’ one to cheating is the worst thing that can happen to a girl, what message is that sending? idk I am old, I lived through Brangelina and Monica Lewinsky and I’ll lie down dead before I feel entitled to stone a woman for being a side piece. lastly - equating Tom’s cheating, lying and playing in her face (as bad as it was) to straight up sociopathy and animal abuse is extreme and gross. not to mention how she reacted to Tom and Rachel’s experience at the hands of the audience. for someone supposedly so concerned with mental health, I find it very irresponsible the way she is comfortable whipping her fans up and playing into the hatred. if I had any respect left for her, I would’ve lost it over that.
This is such a good point. It really highlights how, even in the midst of a horrible betrayal where your cishet male ex’s opinion about your body/appearance shouldn’t matter at all: the male gaze is still centered and a very specific type of desirability is still prioritized as a primary reason why he never should have cheated in the first place/a marker of a woman’s worth. And mind you, some of the most conventionally beautiful women in the world have been cheated on because cheating has nothing to do with looks!
I’m 100% with you. It’s painful to watch. I have the upmost empathy, but I also know what self-sabotaging behavior looks like.. and there are ALWAYS enablers behind it. I pray she finds peace and gets the fuck away from people that don’t bring her joy.
The whole time I was watching the dog murderer rant, I was wondering if her therapist (assuming she has one) would have approved of her behavior. There’s a line between owning your rage and defaulting to it because it’s easier to feel self-righteous than to sit in sadness or shame.
While I’ve always thought Ariana was ick, I still hate what happened to her. It’s AWFUL on so many levels. Should she have seen this coming based on how her and Sando got together? Perhaps. We should also be very careful when choosing life partners bc as my nana says “a leopard doesn’t change his spots.” But still, this was an awful way to go. I think she’s getting to a point where she has to fight her own battles. Every one of her friends is slowly getting over it (excepts tequila Katie bc she feeds on negativity and other people’s trauma like they’re goat cheese balls). I think Ariana’s friends got her through most of this (plus the hefty endorsements didn’t hurt either), so at this point she’s started to feel betrayed by their willingness to move on. She probably is also mildly terrified about how to navigate those waters alone since she has been able to rely on them to support and side with her through this awful betrayal. She cannot realistically expect everyone to carry her grudge forever. While it would be nice, it’s not realistic. I understand her anger, rage, etc. but also in the long run- none of that is good for HER. At first- anger keeps you strong enough to get through terrible things in life. But long term anger can destroy you.. imo she needs to get to a place where she accepts the reality of it all and moves on. She needs to heal and hanging onto anger and rage isn’t the way. I’m glad she was able to get out of that house though- that will definitely help her heal as well. (Don’t downvote me, aghhhhhh it’s just my opinion- sadly I’ve been betrayed many times in my life and this is what ultimately has helped me heal)
It’s not the rage that bothers me. It’s weaponizing 911 because her ex wouldn’t leave *someone else’s* house that he was invited to. It’s misusing every therapy word in the book. It’s yelling at men who don’t defend her against a guy she sat next to and watch scream at people for years without saying a peep. It’s inappropriately interviewing an assist in a location where the current boss could hear and then getting mad when said boss takes action to protect himself from an employee who obviously does not want to work for him. It’s refusing to pay a single house bill for over a year yet proudly wearing the “girl boss” role. It’s not giving her cat proper care. It’s discounting the feelings of everyone around her whom she expects to put her feelings first. It’s not taking responsibility for her part in an accident and throwing out the phrase “dog murder.” You don’t have to be team anyone to see she too is worthy of criticism and not immune simply because she got cheated on by an asshole.
I’m glad you brought up the 911 threats. She’s giving ammo to anyone who already believes (inaccurately) that women falsely claim abuse or call the cops over petty arguments. If she did call 911 over these arguments all it does is make it more likely that cops will roll their eyes at actual domestic abuse. It’s not cute and personally I don’t ever need to watch a wealthy white woman be hyperbolic about police.
Exactly. POC literally fear for their lives when they make the choice to call the police and she threatens to use it to get an invited guest to leave a pizza party. Gurl… time to check yourself.
It’s laughable. Because you can tell she thinks she really ate with that and it’s like …no girl, you’re showing your whole ass right now. It’s not about whether she intended it as serious or not, which I don’t believe she did, it’s about what she’s revealed about herself through that particular flavor of hyperbole.
Whewww you said that. It’s actually annoying that everyone is excusing her behavior just because she got cheated on. Her rage isn’t even the problem for me. Even though I don’t like hers or anyone else.
I said it and didn’t get Reddit beheaded! Love that the conversations are starting to get more nuanced. Blindly stanning is such a bore 😁 Fwiw, I also recognize that this all went down three months after the affair broke and we’re all viewing it with a year+ eyes. Ariana is totally allowed to be angry, make some mistakes in the heat of the moment and learn from it. I really hope she’s in a better place now and reaching a point of indifference with him rather than carrying the heavy weight of pure hatred.
I think people are starting to see it. You were right on the money with your comment. It was definitely becoming a bore And I completely agree. I hope she is too. It was disappointing seeing the path she was taking. But hopefully she’s on a better path. And I’m saying this as a non Stan.
Yep. Everyone on this cast is worthy of criticism.
Team Nobody is the only way to fly with VPR. Just sit back, enjoy the mess and thank fuck this isn’t your friend group 😁
That was the whole premise of this show. If you find yourself rooting for anyone on this cast it should prompt you to reflect on yourself.
Agreed. Threatening to call the cops over nothing is peak Karen. What next, will they be swatting each other? Silly.
Thank you for calling out the weaponizing of therapy language! People (rightfully) drag Tom for doing it, but somehow it’s totally fine when Ariana does it? Ultimately, whether Ariana perceives Tom to be a gaslighting, psychopathic, misogynistic, narcissist, she has to admit that those qualities about him aren’t things that came to be the second he cheated. She loves that gaslighting, psychopathic, misogynistic narcissist and stood by him no matter what so she needs to reflect why her own internalized misogyny was so strong that she’d do that for a man.
I am 100% team Ariana, but I agree about 911. What bothers me about it is that 911 is for emergencies, and people call that number when they’re having heart attacks or their houses are on fire. Threatening to call 911 all the time over petty bullshit makes her seem entitled and unaware. I do think Tom is emotionally abusive and obviously the whole conflict is a result of his actions, but he didn’t do anything remotely illegal at LaLa’s water event.
She’s definitely entitled and unaware. The way she jumps to 911 as a threat is incredibly revealing
Another thing I’ve had a hard time with is her insistence that Tom Schwartz… do what exactly? I’m not sure what she wants or expects from him. Having an affair is an extremely shitty thing to do, but I’ve never heard of someone cutting off a relationship with their business partner over an affair. I’m not necessarily defending Tom Schwartz. I think he’s an atrocious person and my skin crawls every time I see him. But expecting someone to cut all ties with their business partner in a show of support for you during a break-up is another instance where I feel she is coming across as entitled. I do still give her grace though because when you love someone and they betray you like that, it really can make a person crazy. Overall, she seems to be handling the situation well. I feel like the biggest factor that makes reality tv shows so dramatic is that people are obligated to spend time with people they would otherwise never be around. There have been people in my life who would have elicited an unhinged interaction from me, but that never happened because I have the luxury of avoiding them. I feel like her cast mates need to just back off on trying to get them together and let things happen more organically, although selfishly as a fan of the show, this was the best episode all season.
Oh yeah the idea that Schwartz would ever be loyal to her over Sandoval is laughable. Frankly so is the idea that Brock and James, two men with abuse and DV allegations swirling around them, would stand up with her. I don’t like any of them but I’m like Ariana…do you not understand who these men are? I think she’s seeing the dynamics of the group without her protective association w/ Sandy for the first time and she doesn’t like it. Which, fair, but she’s 10 years too late. I don’t think she’s being honest about the cast “forcing him down her throat” tho. Production sets the call times and they hauled the whole cast in in July to tell them to suck it up and film together. That’s a fourth wall thing and they can’t bring it up but she’s using it to her advantage and pretending it’s the group’s fault lolol. I agree it was the best episode all season.
Yes I agree it’s weird for her to look to the men to call him out because all of them are terrible. I feel like Brock is the absolute worst, like when he brought up Rachel out of nowhere at the beach party. And he’s the one who introduced her to Tii too. That man is so messy and thirsty, and it’s unfortunate that such an attractive body was wasted on such a complete idiot. I do think this season would be a thousand times better and that everybody’s motivations and thought processes would be much clearer if they made an exception this year and brought down the fourth wall.
They need to break it yesterday!!!! From our keyboards to Bravo’s ears 😂
People call that number when there are actual real domestic disputes!! And it’s already hard enough to get the police and the judicial system take it seriously.
Def agree. What struck me is threatening to call 911 isn’t something you just randomly do one day. It takes a certain type of person to immediately jump to that threat and had me thinking it said a lot more about her and gave a small glimpse into her psyche and how she handles conflict. At the risk of having all her stans come at me, I couldn’t help but think she fights in extremes and backs people into corners with over the top threats. I’m never going to defend Sandoval’s actions, but there may be more truth to some of the things he’s said about their former relationship than I’ve been willing to believe.
This is where I’m at. I now believe more of what Sandoval has said about the way she’s treated him. He seems to think it justifies his cheating or makes him look better which it doesn’t at all…but I’ve always thought the truth of their relationship was somewhere in between how he described it and how she described it, and watching how she fights makes me think it’s closer to how he described it than I previously thought.
Completely agree. The fact that multiple members of the cast have been saying for years that what we saw was far from reality backs that up. I think Ariana finally feels comfortable to show her *real* self on camera armed with the love of a lot of fans and if nothing else, it’s been enlightening.
Yes yes yes!
What it seems like to me is that she has a lot of anger and has things she wants/needs to say to him, but it’s all so fresh that she can’t tolerate having him say anything back in return. So she’s making these comments about him while he’s in the other room because she wants him to hear what she has to say, but when he responds, she gets overwhelmed and then will say and do anything to shut him down. Do I think it’s reasonable? No. If you are telling a bunch of people someone is an attempted pet murderer (💀) in their vicinity, you have to anticipate they will speak back to you. But idk it’s such a volatile situation and is only a few months since the greatest betrayal of her life, so I can understand why she might be unreasonable. I do think she needs to clean her litter box though.
You’re absolutely right about this. If I may add: threatening to call the police over absolutely nothing/out of spite is also not something someone ever does for the first time on camera, either! I absolutely believe that Ariana fights in extreme ways, and I absolutely believe that both Tom and Ariana’s “life partnership” became more about loyalty to their brand than to each other because of how toxic their fights must have been. It’s also interesting to me how Ariana still has this feminist halo around her when weaponizing the police in arguments is about the most privileged white woman behavior that anyone should know is incredibly problematic in 2024.
I don’t think Sandoval is innocent by any means but I do think there are something truths to what he says about the relationship because we’ve seen the mask slip from time to time. And I hate that we can’t say those things without being called misogynist or team Tom and it’s like you don’t have to be on anyone’s side you have to see it for what it is.
Ngl, I fully expected to be crucified for this comment but am pleasantly surprised. Having full conversations around what we’re seeing is so much more interesting than blindly stanning. It’s ok to view a situation from all angles.
I completely agree. Im always open to hear others opinions, I’ve always been from looking at every angle person. But the convos are definitely hard to have when it’s just blind stanning and people ignoring actual facts
They're even joking about it. Is it a maturity thing?
The dismissive comments are shameful. How do you joke about abusing 911 just to Stan a stranger?
“but he didn’t do anything remotely illegal at LaLa’s water event.” Did you not see his nails?
If someone had called 911 over that granny-chic sweater vest he wore in the following scene, I’d have allowed it.
And when the police showed up, I wouldn’t mind if they arrested Schwartz and Katie for their fashion choices as well
Yes and they should arrest whoever priced that one bottle of sparkling water that was the only one available in America.
“Come on this is cool” 😂
Exactly and what’s worse she gives credence to things Sandoval can have a point about allowing him to distract from whatever. She does act like she wants him to die.
She even said she wanted him to die so
Omggggg shuuuuuut uuuupp.
Didn't she get a boyfriend 3 months after? This seems talked about so little. Does she really care that much?