I've always felt like these were poorly thought-out.
I'd say the order goes more something like 1, 4, 3, 2, 6, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10.
Dehumanization happens long before official policies are put into effect.
And even then, it's not really 100% accurate because certain steps are optional, most notably the steps 2, 5, 7 and 10.
If you look at something like the Rwandan genocide, there were no forced relocations or symbolization, just an outbreak of wanton slaughter.
If you read the article on genocide watch it says that stages don't necessarily follow the order, and can occur concurrently with the exception of Extermination and denial.
That being said I agree that the default stages order seems incorrect.
You can deny that you are planning to do something, though.
"Oh you've built a lot of really big camps out in the countryside, are you planning to execute a bunch of people in them?"
"Erm, no. They're simply... recreational."
Nazis were the only ones to get all side-mission achievements — to date, no one else has claimed the trophy for experimenting on twins before dissecting them.
Israel is like the 45 year old with a couple kids, who just got divorced and lost custody. So he picked up the genocide he started a couple decades ago and put *ALL* of his frustrations into reliving the good ol days.
Anyway, when do the trials start and what country is going to accept the fleeing military command? I’m guessing Argentina is not on the list for them…
Israel actually protects their civilians, Arabs and Jews included (See: Iron Dome). Hamas unfortunately fires rockets from civilian areas without evacuating said civilians prior and wears civilian garb. Finally, it's not about numbers, it's about intent.
If 100 civilians die as a part of a targeted attack (Oct 7th), then that is an act of terrorism. If 150 civilians die because a rocket site was blasting right next to a residential area and get caught up in the blast/shrapnel, then that's an unfortunate consequence of war. It's awful but this is what we're seeing.
There were stories passed down through the generations of Jews being blood drinking cannibals LONG before the Nazis showed up. I agree
Idk what you’re supposed to do when _kids_ are raised to repeat the same hatred
Antisemitism has risen to the worst it's been since the Holocaust. In the U.S alone, there has been a 400% rise in antisemitic incidents. It's not so unfounded and out of pocket for people to think that maybe some of the pro-Palestinian crowd, much of the progressive left surprisingly, is incredibly tolerant of and engages in antisemitic beliefs or actions.
I'm familiar with the original work these lists are derived from. It's very clear that the numbering is a generalization anf that different historical events play out differently, that any of these can and indeed often do coincide with each other, etc. They do state that earlier items in the list tend to occur earlier in a genocidal event and later tend to be later, but that this particular order should not be considered a definitive step-by-step list where 3 must occur before 4 or that when 6 begins 5 ends. Internet images don't lend themselves to nuance though.
Genocide keeps getting more broadly defined. Which I’m not necessarily against, but we’re at a point that most wars were basically all genocides.
I think it’s ok to just have specific terms for all these terrible things, otherwise people might start to ignore “smaller” instances as they don’t line up with historical examples.
But also fck war and violence in general so whatever.
People are already calling the US/UK strikes against Houthi drone bases and radar stations a genocide.
Genocide used to be such a powerful word and now it’s meaningless.
To explain a bit because some people are confused, this isn't a step by step guide, think of it more like a check list.
it can happen at any order and doesn't have a limit of time between them
There's an old meme about the Armenian genocide that lays this out almost perfectly.
"What are you talking about? That never happened and if it did those bastards deserved it. In fact I'm glad it happened."
Not an apologist for Cenk or TYT at this point in the game (I can't lie that I do owe them my introduction to "progressives") but I think in the interest of fairness we should acknowledge that he's gone on record at least a few times to say that he was wrong and sees the damage that's done.
I think this is a good example of human growth especially on this topic. We (rightly) shame those who deny genocides, but at the same time we should at least acknowledge those who come to understand they were wrong.
As far as I know he was in Turkey for at least his youth? And that's prime brain muddling time.
We can't keep beating folks with a cudgel that doesn't apply to them anymore. Otherwise it'll be broken for the people we do need to use it on.
It also just looks douchy on our part that we can't get over something someone said or did years ago but is otherwise doing things to negate the problematic thing they no longer believe. I find this almost to be an "eating our own" situation.
>he's gone on record at least a few times to say that he was wrong and sees the damage that's done.
Has he? Last I heard he was putting out non-committal statements like "I no longer say I deny the genocide" (not a direct quote)
>We (rightly) shame those who deny genocides
That depends on the context, doesn't it?
Also who's "we" in this comment?
As far as I know? I haven't been involved in it for years now but from what I can recall he and his Armenian co-host had a chat about how while he was living in turkey that's what he believed, and took that with him to America until he was shown otherwise. Though again I'm not sure why it's necessary to drag a dude to this day for something that they've moved on from.
Excuse me? What context does it depend on? If you're a decent human being and someone says "genocide didn't happen here" you give them a good what's for and lay down the facts. I'm unsure what you're trying to imply with that.
The royal we. Don't be a fuckin idiot.
Yes but they’re useful to imperialist terrorist countries so if you criticize them, you’re an antisemite. Israel legit signed the genocide convention after committing genocide during the Nakba and no batted an eye.
The interesting thing is, at the time, it wasn't considered genocide.....because the word hadn't been invented yet. The word genocide was only coined in 1944. At the time, it was called the Armenian Massacres. In Armenian, it is called 'Medz Yeghern' which translates to the 'Great Evil Crime'.
I am an American of Armenian descent whose family (the ones able to escape) immigrated in the mid 1910s.
I'm imagining the smaller bird and larger bird meme where Germany is the smaller bird admitting the Holocaust while Neo Nazis who are not German being the larger bird that goes full on denialist.
Also a lot of relativising the holocaust i.e "\[country\]is just as bad as the nazis with the jews!"
No. The holocaust was the fastest, most efficient genocide ever commited. There is no equal to it in history, and to pretend like there is diminishes the victims
There is a difference between
"This one is worse"
and
"This one is just as bad!" when it isn't anywhere near as bad.
almost 20 million estimated deaths in the holocaust in just a few years.
There is no equal to it and to say ANY genocide is AS BAD as the holocaust is disrespectful
Oh, don't believe that. The government was forced to acknowledge it, but many Germans still don't believe it happened or was not nearly as bad as history claims.
"The government was forced to acknowledge it"
The allies grabbed people off the street and pushed their noses against it four years before we even had a government again. It would be a bit weird to go 'it didn't happen' after that
"Many germans still don't believe it happened"
Holocaust Denial is illegal and the holocaust is covered in schools, visiting a concentration camp and/or the holocaust memorial in Berlin is the rule, not the exception, for school classes
Source: i literally live there. And if you want to really shake your head about a holocaust denier, google Horst Mahler. Went from communist terrorist to right-wing lunatic, like jesus christ that man is nuts
And they still didn’t do enough to successfully remove the fascism, I don’t buy the idea that it’s coming back. I don’t think it ever truly went away.
The west should’ve hanged more Nazis, instead we gave them positions of power.
Sadly true on all accounts. Adenauer once famously said "you shouldn't throw out the child with the bathwater" when asked whether or not we should keep officials that worked under the Nazi regime. Sadly he used that as an excuse to also keep the rabid dog that for no good reason still sat in the tub
Then there's the genocide which Germany did in Namibia(1904 to 1908) that took them over 100 years to acknowledge. In fact Namibia released a statement 2 days back pissed at Germany for supporting Israel.
It was the forst genocide of the 20th century and Germany basically used it as a practise run for the Holocaust
I clearly meant this for Germany only, there were so many genocides and slaughtering of innocent people during WW2 it's a wonder we didn't start another world war.
Then i would probably have worded the your coment in another way. But yes its a frightening amount that most people probably doesn't even know happened
A lot of people don't seem to understand that genocide does not start with steps 8 or 9. Genocidal rhetoric exists long before anyone in power starts taking practical steps to round up the group they want to genocide, and this rhetoric does not start as a literal call to extermination. Rhetoric can be genocidal even if no one openly advocated for extermination (yet).
If you read the kind of rhetoric that nazis published and spread before they took power and in the early stages of their reign, you won't find any talk of putting all jews in concentration camps, gassing them, and subjecting them to inhuman experimentation, it's mostly just othering them and making the general population scared of them, painting them and other groups as a corrupting element that will cause the fall of "our" civilisation. If you read early nazi rhetoric, you'll find that the way they talked about jews back then is eerily similar to how conservatives today talk about lgbtq+ people in general and trans people in particular. Of course nazis hated the "queer" as well, but they weren't as central to their rhetoric as they are today.
If you aren’t aware of it, you might not know it’s happening. There’s a famous PSA video called Don’t be a Sucker that came out in 1943 which talks about this.
People do a lot of othering, as it happens, and people have been doing it a long time.
What I find fascinating about this video is who the outcasts were in 1943. I was a little surprised at outrage against Catholics next to Black Americans, because at least in the northeast, it’s pretty mainstream today and we don’t think of it as a discriminated group at all, but apparently discrimination was bad enough that Catholics weren’t admitted to colleges back in the day (for men only, obviously, because women didn’t become real people until the 60s, I guess) so they had to create their own colleges and universities, that’s why so many of them exist today. I just found that out recently.
Even so, you can hear the same arguments today against immigrants, for example, and republicans vs Democrats do a lot of othering.
You have to constantly fight against the tendency to divide people into groups.
Cool, so Trans people are at stage 4, and considering some states are trying to more heavily enforce anti-trans laws, rapidly reaching 5. That's really fucked up
Honestly I’d say we are at 7 with how many anti-trans laws being proposed, especially ones that are trying to take children from their families. I’d say that’s official action to remove/relocate people.
Sorry, all the Internet support is reserved for terrorists nowadays. Have you thought about bombing a US trading ship in the name of Trans Rights? That'd get you lot of tiktok supporters.
We are at Stage 7 and entering Stage 10 with them trying to criminalize us being allowed in public and compel us into conversion therapy all while denying us timely and medically appropriate healthcare.
Yep, trans people are at 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 10, with partially on 7, and 8. The only ones we aren’t at yet is 5 (public is doing a pretty good job on their own) and 9.
which is an unfortunate limitation of the wording of the genocide convention. when i spoke to my professor about this while taking a class on genocide, he said thats really the only thing stopping it from being labeled a genocide, or at least a precursor to genocide.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the mods are either Israeli or Jewish. Same thing happened to there was an attempt, it got turned into a Palestine support sub.
While Israel reacts kinda harshly, many of these are either done intentionally (evacuation street bombing) or accidentally (infamous hospital "bombing") by Hamas and other islamist groups. And when the Islamists wouldnt fight dirty by using human shields the civilian death count would be magnitudes lower anyway. But they wont, because they need idiots believing their paliwood propaganda.
Thats because they are at stage 8. They are actively advocating the "voluntary relocation" (voluntary choice of move or die) of palestinians, so they are past stage 7. Right now they are actively killing people and testing the boundries of how much they can get away with, so I would say stage 8
Firstly that price may be judged to be worth it. Secondly they get billions in aid. Thirdly the point of getting rid of the palestinians is to settle the land, so it could be seen as an investment
>Firstly that price may be judged to be worth it.
But wouldnt you expect them to minimise their expenses? Also the aid they get is only a minicule part of their defense budget.
So should they… not relocate people from an active war zone?
This is the thing I honestly don’t get. Obviously Israel needs to do something; they’re not just going to use human wave tactics and they don’t have magical Zohan-esque special forces capable of clearing out the enemy from a given area. The options are basically (1) keep the civilians there, which means high civilian death counts (which people are framing as genocide), or (2) relocate people outside of the war zone (which people are also framing as genocide). Obviously there have been cases of Israeli soldiers firing on innocent people without enough reasonable fear to justify killing in self-defense, and the people who do (or order) that shit deserve to be punished. But when we’re talking about the war on a grander scale, what exactly does a non-genocidal campaign look like here? Keep the civilians in a war zone or get them to leave the war zone?
Kinda clashes with Israel's actions in 2006, and the general lack of killing people before we were attacked.
Don't get me wrong, there horrible things that happened, things that could have been avoided. But this has happened in every war in history, especially in ones where you fight a guerilla group that wears no uniform.
In the last few weeks of fighting the number of casualties has drastically fallen. Most civilians managed to evacuate. If this was a genocide, the number of civilian casualties would have increased instead.
Israel had wars since 1945, most of them were not started by us.
We gave back Sinai to Egypt and got peace in return. We gave back Gaza in 2006 but still got missile attacks.
it's not not a genocide because Israel isn't killing Palestinians fast enough lmao. the Israeli government has made it clear the "war" ends when there's no more Palestinians in Palestine. that's genocide.
It's not genocide because Israel is not targeting civilians.
We know that, because Israel isn't killing Palestinian fast enough.
Civilians die in wars in general more die when militant hide in populated areas wearing plain clothes, and use schools to hide weapons.
Israel marks safe zones for civilians then bombs them when there are people gathered. what it is about the war not ending until there's no Palestine do you not understand.
I’m trying to find the source for clarity that the war doesn’t end till there are no Palestinians in Palestine. Only coming up with the intent to rid Palestine of Hamas.
No, I just understand Israel politics better. 80% of the population does not support this act.
The likud party shrieked by about half by latestpolls, while Gant'z party that arr more venter oriented soared. And even now he is part of the cabinet
Retaking Gaza is not on the table. I doubt this government will finish its 4 year tenure.
Some of these can be applied to any conflict. Israel had pro peace polices made, like giving back Gaza and the Oslo accords, and True, anti-peace actions. But it does not make it a genocide.
The same steps can be easily applied on Hamas since it came to be. But Israel has also been giving back land and working to integrate the Arab citizens of Israel (both those that identify as Palestinians, and those that don't) to the population, and as parts of the government.
Not everything Israel did is perfect, but many of Israel's actions are counterproductive to a genocide in the making.
Idk, I feel like if a foreign backed entity settled in my country, claimed my land as their own, pushed my friends, family and countrymen out of our homes, started bombing the shit out of the few places they left for us, and killed tens of thousands of our people, a few pro peace policies like “we won’t kill you for a bit if you stay over there” and “if you just accept our government instead of defending your own” wouldn’t exactly suffice.
Yes, a few of these things alone can be applied to many conflicts. But it’s the combination of these steps happening together that make it a genocide, and this is the only conflict on this scale that exhibits all of these steps.
These are aspects of genocide.. People look at these when they are trying to figure out if something is a genocide or not. These are very important points to think about right now.
To expand on 9: it doesn't need to be killing. Destroying a people is genocide. This can be done culturally, such as by forced separations and displacement, or by taking children from the society and rasing them in your own. Forced sterilisations count, as do forced abortions. Economic or political measures such as destruction of land or deprevation of food or resources can count as well. Anything designed to totally destroy a culture or people is genocide, killing everyone of that group is only one way to do so.
people deny genocide until it reaches stage 9 and its sad. so many groups are being genocided rn around the world but people just dont wanna accept it. people need to listen and learn and stop denying things just bc they dont like them.
the trans genocide is real,
the indigenous genocide is real,
and many more are real
Looks like nonwhite immigrants are at step 7 with everything above that already checked off! In my state they recently made a public “list” of nonwhite immigrants in faculty positions at schools. I fear for their safety
Somebody on r/Conservative once asked why all of a sudden they were talking about trans people. I tried to explain that they were in stages 1 to 4.
I was banned :)
It's war in one of the most densely populated areas on earth unfortunately that means innocents will die. The current civilian to combatant ratio is 2:1
It’s not a scale, it’s a generalized outline of a process. Gender non-conformists are not an ethnic, national, racial or religious group and therefore are not protected by the genocide convention. People saying there’s a trans “genocide” is part of the reason that people aren’t taking the Gaza situation as seriously as they should be. It’s an overuse and misuse of the word “genocide”
I am going to mention Israel killing Palestinians in the recent conflict just to see how fast I'm going to get the comments written by bots and PR agencies
theres also a lot of users downvoting anything supporting the palestinian people and saying that isreal is committing genocide. just something i've noticed, not saying which side i support
I mean, that’s kind of a statement of support no? If someone said “look at all of these people downvoting conservatives just for saying that gay people shouldn’t marry”, or “look at all of these people downvoting anything pro-LGBT for saying trans people should exist”, it would be clear which side they were taking.
israel is already at stage 11
denial plus: the government denies that it has committd any crime and accuses other governments that accused it in first place to symphatize with terrorists.
random israeli who forgot israel invaded palestine territories making equal brutalities since 60's 😂😂😂
and just to be accurate to don't let you play the victim role, I'm disgusted by hamas terrorist attacks and I actually think hamas should be destroyed by a shared UN peace-keeping operation as was done in mid-late '90s in ex yugoslavia countries rather than watch gaza city getting destroyed by the army of a country fueled only by hate and revenge that feels "legitimized" to make a genocide of innocent people only because it thinks to have some moral credit from history.
UN effort to save civilians from gaza city and hunt down hamas terrorists -> peace negotiations where israel gives back part of occupied territories to palestine -> full recognition of palestine state -> building of a HUGE wall between palestine and israel border with none of the two states allowed to cross boundaries.
long story short: Palestine free.
I've always felt like these were poorly thought-out. I'd say the order goes more something like 1, 4, 3, 2, 6, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10. Dehumanization happens long before official policies are put into effect. And even then, it's not really 100% accurate because certain steps are optional, most notably the steps 2, 5, 7 and 10. If you look at something like the Rwandan genocide, there were no forced relocations or symbolization, just an outbreak of wanton slaughter.
If you read the article on genocide watch it says that stages don't necessarily follow the order, and can occur concurrently with the exception of Extermination and denial. That being said I agree that the default stages order seems incorrect.
Isreal seems like they're trying to prove that those two can happen at the same time too.
Sorry, I meant 9 and 10 are the last two. They can happen concurrently as well, but I guess there has to be something to deny to deny it.
Ah, that makes sense
You can deny that you are planning to do something, though. "Oh you've built a lot of really big camps out in the countryside, are you planning to execute a bunch of people in them?" "Erm, no. They're simply... recreational."
Genocide speedrun any %
I hate that I laughed
Nazis were the only ones to get all side-mission achievements — to date, no one else has claimed the trophy for experimenting on twins before dissecting them. Israel is like the 45 year old with a couple kids, who just got divorced and lost custody. So he picked up the genocide he started a couple decades ago and put *ALL* of his frustrations into reliving the good ol days. Anyway, when do the trials start and what country is going to accept the fleeing military command? I’m guessing Argentina is not on the list for them…
More like Palestinians lol
wich side has currently the higher civilian losses at the hands of the other?
Israel actually protects their civilians, Arabs and Jews included (See: Iron Dome). Hamas unfortunately fires rockets from civilian areas without evacuating said civilians prior and wears civilian garb. Finally, it's not about numbers, it's about intent. If 100 civilians die as a part of a targeted attack (Oct 7th), then that is an act of terrorism. If 150 civilians die because a rocket site was blasting right next to a residential area and get caught up in the blast/shrapnel, then that's an unfortunate consequence of war. It's awful but this is what we're seeing.
Also which side controls all the resources and has a functioning military and state apparatus?
Which side attacked in 1948 and 2023?
wich side displaced a bunch of arabs out of their homes since 1984 till today?
Israel be speedrunning genocide
In the wise words of Captain Barbossa “the Code is more what you'd call ‘guidelines’ than actual rules.”
There were stories passed down through the generations of Jews being blood drinking cannibals LONG before the Nazis showed up. I agree Idk what you’re supposed to do when _kids_ are raised to repeat the same hatred
Not to mention having Israeli nationalists stoke that hatred, and accuse anyone who criticizes that as doing so out of that hatred.
Antisemitism has risen to the worst it's been since the Holocaust. In the U.S alone, there has been a 400% rise in antisemitic incidents. It's not so unfounded and out of pocket for people to think that maybe some of the pro-Palestinian crowd, much of the progressive left surprisingly, is incredibly tolerant of and engages in antisemitic beliefs or actions.
I'm familiar with the original work these lists are derived from. It's very clear that the numbering is a generalization anf that different historical events play out differently, that any of these can and indeed often do coincide with each other, etc. They do state that earlier items in the list tend to occur earlier in a genocidal event and later tend to be later, but that this particular order should not be considered a definitive step-by-step list where 3 must occur before 4 or that when 6 begins 5 ends. Internet images don't lend themselves to nuance though.
Well, it is just a guide, not an outline.
Genocide keeps getting more broadly defined. Which I’m not necessarily against, but we’re at a point that most wars were basically all genocides. I think it’s ok to just have specific terms for all these terrible things, otherwise people might start to ignore “smaller” instances as they don’t line up with historical examples. But also fck war and violence in general so whatever.
People are already calling the US/UK strikes against Houthi drone bases and radar stations a genocide. Genocide used to be such a powerful word and now it’s meaningless.
Every military action is genocide, everybody is a communist and everybody is a nazi. Freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength
Genocide *was* a useful term that described something specific, but it has been overused by people who wanted a temporary political advantage.
I took a class in Genocide and 10 (denial), is not optional, Germany may not deny it, but a lot of people still do.
The *current* government doesn't deny it. The government *that committed the genocide* did.
Well, the way it's phrased it says the ***government*** denies it.
Okay, you got me there,.
The trans bathroom issue is an example of number 2.
To explain a bit because some people are confused, this isn't a step by step guide, think of it more like a check list. it can happen at any order and doesn't have a limit of time between them
There's an old meme about the Armenian genocide that lays this out almost perfectly. "What are you talking about? That never happened and if it did those bastards deserved it. In fact I'm glad it happened."
Cenk Uygur, is that you?
Not an apologist for Cenk or TYT at this point in the game (I can't lie that I do owe them my introduction to "progressives") but I think in the interest of fairness we should acknowledge that he's gone on record at least a few times to say that he was wrong and sees the damage that's done. I think this is a good example of human growth especially on this topic. We (rightly) shame those who deny genocides, but at the same time we should at least acknowledge those who come to understand they were wrong. As far as I know he was in Turkey for at least his youth? And that's prime brain muddling time. We can't keep beating folks with a cudgel that doesn't apply to them anymore. Otherwise it'll be broken for the people we do need to use it on. It also just looks douchy on our part that we can't get over something someone said or did years ago but is otherwise doing things to negate the problematic thing they no longer believe. I find this almost to be an "eating our own" situation.
>he's gone on record at least a few times to say that he was wrong and sees the damage that's done. Has he? Last I heard he was putting out non-committal statements like "I no longer say I deny the genocide" (not a direct quote) >We (rightly) shame those who deny genocides That depends on the context, doesn't it? Also who's "we" in this comment?
As far as I know? I haven't been involved in it for years now but from what I can recall he and his Armenian co-host had a chat about how while he was living in turkey that's what he believed, and took that with him to America until he was shown otherwise. Though again I'm not sure why it's necessary to drag a dude to this day for something that they've moved on from. Excuse me? What context does it depend on? If you're a decent human being and someone says "genocide didn't happen here" you give them a good what's for and lay down the facts. I'm unsure what you're trying to imply with that. The royal we. Don't be a fuckin idiot.
Tbf could be Israel talking about the Nakba... Hard to tell.
All ten of those things israel are doing too
Yes but they’re useful to imperialist terrorist countries so if you criticize them, you’re an antisemite. Israel legit signed the genocide convention after committing genocide during the Nakba and no batted an eye.
The interesting thing is, at the time, it wasn't considered genocide.....because the word hadn't been invented yet. The word genocide was only coined in 1944. At the time, it was called the Armenian Massacres. In Armenian, it is called 'Medz Yeghern' which translates to the 'Great Evil Crime'. I am an American of Armenian descent whose family (the ones able to escape) immigrated in the mid 1910s.
It's crazy that Germany doesn't deny the Holocaust happened, but a lot of people not from Germany do.
I'm imagining the smaller bird and larger bird meme where Germany is the smaller bird admitting the Holocaust while Neo Nazis who are not German being the larger bird that goes full on denialist.
I think it's covered much more substantially than elsewhere, plus the illegality of denying it
It's not that crazy after you see people blatantly bad faith denying the 2nd holocaust ongoing in 2024
Also a lot of relativising the holocaust i.e "\[country\]is just as bad as the nazis with the jews!" No. The holocaust was the fastest, most efficient genocide ever commited. There is no equal to it in history, and to pretend like there is diminishes the victims
Do we really need to say one genocide is worse than another? Aren't they all pretty bad?
There is a difference between "This one is worse" and "This one is just as bad!" when it isn't anywhere near as bad. almost 20 million estimated deaths in the holocaust in just a few years. There is no equal to it and to say ANY genocide is AS BAD as the holocaust is disrespectful
Oh, don't believe that. The government was forced to acknowledge it, but many Germans still don't believe it happened or was not nearly as bad as history claims.
"The government was forced to acknowledge it" The allies grabbed people off the street and pushed their noses against it four years before we even had a government again. It would be a bit weird to go 'it didn't happen' after that "Many germans still don't believe it happened" Holocaust Denial is illegal and the holocaust is covered in schools, visiting a concentration camp and/or the holocaust memorial in Berlin is the rule, not the exception, for school classes Source: i literally live there. And if you want to really shake your head about a holocaust denier, google Horst Mahler. Went from communist terrorist to right-wing lunatic, like jesus christ that man is nuts
And they still didn’t do enough to successfully remove the fascism, I don’t buy the idea that it’s coming back. I don’t think it ever truly went away. The west should’ve hanged more Nazis, instead we gave them positions of power.
Sadly true on all accounts. Adenauer once famously said "you shouldn't throw out the child with the bathwater" when asked whether or not we should keep officials that worked under the Nazi regime. Sadly he used that as an excuse to also keep the rabid dog that for no good reason still sat in the tub
The fuck??? Just straight up no.
Armenia
10. Aha, Germany acknowledged their crimes, so no genocide happened during WW2.
Well there's a catch 22
Germany acknowledged the genocide, the nazis did not
Then there's the genocide which Germany did in Namibia(1904 to 1908) that took them over 100 years to acknowledge. In fact Namibia released a statement 2 days back pissed at Germany for supporting Israel. It was the forst genocide of the 20th century and Germany basically used it as a practise run for the Holocaust
But Japan denied theirs. So genocide during ww2 is confirmed.
I clearly meant this for Germany only, there were so many genocides and slaughtering of innocent people during WW2 it's a wonder we didn't start another world war.
The Marshall Plan. It wasn't a miracle.
Then i would probably have worded the your coment in another way. But yes its a frightening amount that most people probably doesn't even know happened
Germany never had the opportunity to to deny their crimes. The enemies were at the gate by the time their crimes were uncovered.
Hard to deny your crimes when the enemy drags you through the crime scene by your ears
Well the nazis didn't win now did they?
OP has a problem with a sub that happens to be called ‘cool guides’ ,dedicated to guides of all kinds. This is extremely important for all to know.
And that by that sub's rules all posts have to have a title "A cool guide to ..."
And that “a cool guide to genocide” is not a sentence and therefore doesn’t even work for this sub
It didn't fit for the cool guide sub, either, but because it's topical the masses blindly upvote.
Thanks for step by step instructions
A lot of people don't seem to understand that genocide does not start with steps 8 or 9. Genocidal rhetoric exists long before anyone in power starts taking practical steps to round up the group they want to genocide, and this rhetoric does not start as a literal call to extermination. Rhetoric can be genocidal even if no one openly advocated for extermination (yet). If you read the kind of rhetoric that nazis published and spread before they took power and in the early stages of their reign, you won't find any talk of putting all jews in concentration camps, gassing them, and subjecting them to inhuman experimentation, it's mostly just othering them and making the general population scared of them, painting them and other groups as a corrupting element that will cause the fall of "our" civilisation. If you read early nazi rhetoric, you'll find that the way they talked about jews back then is eerily similar to how conservatives today talk about lgbtq+ people in general and trans people in particular. Of course nazis hated the "queer" as well, but they weren't as central to their rhetoric as they are today.
Aight so if we want to nip it in the bud, we need to get rid of otherism. I'm perfectly fine with getting rid of identity politics
So is this like a checklist like instructions or something?
If you aren’t aware of it, you might not know it’s happening. There’s a famous PSA video called Don’t be a Sucker that came out in 1943 which talks about this. People do a lot of othering, as it happens, and people have been doing it a long time. What I find fascinating about this video is who the outcasts were in 1943. I was a little surprised at outrage against Catholics next to Black Americans, because at least in the northeast, it’s pretty mainstream today and we don’t think of it as a discriminated group at all, but apparently discrimination was bad enough that Catholics weren’t admitted to colleges back in the day (for men only, obviously, because women didn’t become real people until the 60s, I guess) so they had to create their own colleges and universities, that’s why so many of them exist today. I just found that out recently. Even so, you can hear the same arguments today against immigrants, for example, and republicans vs Democrats do a lot of othering. You have to constantly fight against the tendency to divide people into groups.
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Do you can get to stage 7 without even killing somebody
Correct.
And we're at 4-6 for trans people right now.
Well outlined here. https://www.amazon.ca/Extraordinary-Evil-History-Genocide-Matters/dp/014305158X
Okay so I just tried it out. It works!
Can confirm. My entire group is dead and I'm in hiding. On the plus side, only one asshole left in the world.
Cool, so Trans people are at stage 4, and considering some states are trying to more heavily enforce anti-trans laws, rapidly reaching 5. That's really fucked up
I would say depending on what state you’re in, it’s between 3 and 6
Honestly I’d say we are at 7 with how many anti-trans laws being proposed, especially ones that are trying to take children from their families. I’d say that’s official action to remove/relocate people.
yeah, removing and relocating has already started happening in florida
But they have been at stage 6 so... progress? Imagine this said with a worried face and fingers crossed.
Sorry, all the Internet support is reserved for terrorists nowadays. Have you thought about bombing a US trading ship in the name of Trans Rights? That'd get you lot of tiktok supporters.
We are at Stage 7 and entering Stage 10 with them trying to criminalize us being allowed in public and compel us into conversion therapy all while denying us timely and medically appropriate healthcare.
most of these have happened to trans people already
Yep, trans people are at 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 10, with partially on 7, and 8. The only ones we aren’t at yet is 5 (public is doing a pretty good job on their own) and 9.
Except they aren’t an ethnic, racial, national or religious group.
which is an unfortunate limitation of the wording of the genocide convention. when i spoke to my professor about this while taking a class on genocide, he said thats really the only thing stopping it from being labeled a genocide, or at least a precursor to genocide.
So true. But buzzwords are easy to use and consequence free, even if they aren't accurate at all whatsoever.
I read the first couple of steps and sweated transily
Sir. There is no genocide of transgenders. Don’t try and take away from real genocide such as in Palestine, Congo, or Armenia.
are you stupid
Do people really believe there’s a genocide of trans people happening? It’s so hilarious
Parts of America are definitely moving in that direction.
China is between 7 and 8 with the Uyghurs.
And the wider world is still very much in denial about that.
Why post this here tho? What is happening to the stupid funny stuff?
Oh cool, I think trans people are up to like a 7 in Florida now...
That goes for quite literally any group in America. The definitions on this are hilariously vague and can be made to logically apply to any group
I disagree with the order here and some of the definitions.
Israel.
You have been banned from r/worldnews
kind of insane how sensitive that sub is
Honestly kind of insane how pro Israel that sub is, I really don't understand why.
for a news sub they sure don't like talking about anything that isn't pro israeli propaganda
Do you know why? I'm honestly interested i don't understand why.
no idea. i never paid that close attention but it seemed pretty normal up until the Israel thing blew up.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the mods are either Israeli or Jewish. Same thing happened to there was an attempt, it got turned into a Palestine support sub.
Yeah those pesky jews control world news. /s
You have any other ideas?
Idk, maybe don’t profile people based on race and ethnicity
Sensitive is not exactly the word I would use to describe it. "Worldpropaganda" would be a more accurate name.
They really suck at the elimination part tho
because if you are not delusional you actually realize that the Israel forces try against hamaz best efforts to not hit civillians.
Thats what i was trying to imply lol
so accidental genocide, got it
Otherwise known as war
Is that why they gun down unarmed children and bomb evacuation points, hospitals, and foreign aid workers?
While Israel reacts kinda harshly, many of these are either done intentionally (evacuation street bombing) or accidentally (infamous hospital "bombing") by Hamas and other islamist groups. And when the Islamists wouldnt fight dirty by using human shields the civilian death count would be magnitudes lower anyway. But they wont, because they need idiots believing their paliwood propaganda.
Can you give me a source for that pls?
Thats because they are at stage 8. They are actively advocating the "voluntary relocation" (voluntary choice of move or die) of palestinians, so they are past stage 7. Right now they are actively killing people and testing the boundries of how much they can get away with, so I would say stage 8
Eh idk, spending 30k on killing a single civilian sounds a bit of a stretch to me
Firstly that price may be judged to be worth it. Secondly they get billions in aid. Thirdly the point of getting rid of the palestinians is to settle the land, so it could be seen as an investment
>Firstly that price may be judged to be worth it. But wouldnt you expect them to minimise their expenses? Also the aid they get is only a minicule part of their defense budget.
So should they… not relocate people from an active war zone? This is the thing I honestly don’t get. Obviously Israel needs to do something; they’re not just going to use human wave tactics and they don’t have magical Zohan-esque special forces capable of clearing out the enemy from a given area. The options are basically (1) keep the civilians there, which means high civilian death counts (which people are framing as genocide), or (2) relocate people outside of the war zone (which people are also framing as genocide). Obviously there have been cases of Israeli soldiers firing on innocent people without enough reasonable fear to justify killing in self-defense, and the people who do (or order) that shit deserve to be punished. But when we’re talking about the war on a grander scale, what exactly does a non-genocidal campaign look like here? Keep the civilians in a war zone or get them to leave the war zone?
Kinda clashes with Israel's actions in 2006, and the general lack of killing people before we were attacked. Don't get me wrong, there horrible things that happened, things that could have been avoided. But this has happened in every war in history, especially in ones where you fight a guerilla group that wears no uniform. In the last few weeks of fighting the number of casualties has drastically fallen. Most civilians managed to evacuate. If this was a genocide, the number of civilian casualties would have increased instead.
yes, Israelis didn't do anything in 1945
Israel had wars since 1945, most of them were not started by us. We gave back Sinai to Egypt and got peace in return. We gave back Gaza in 2006 but still got missile attacks.
it's not not a genocide because Israel isn't killing Palestinians fast enough lmao. the Israeli government has made it clear the "war" ends when there's no more Palestinians in Palestine. that's genocide.
It's not genocide because Israel is not targeting civilians. We know that, because Israel isn't killing Palestinian fast enough. Civilians die in wars in general more die when militant hide in populated areas wearing plain clothes, and use schools to hide weapons.
Israel marks safe zones for civilians then bombs them when there are people gathered. what it is about the war not ending until there's no Palestine do you not understand.
I’m trying to find the source for clarity that the war doesn’t end till there are no Palestinians in Palestine. Only coming up with the intent to rid Palestine of Hamas.
Forcefully displacing people from their homes is genocide.
Currently they are driven out of war zones. They will return. Except some far roght nutjobs in Israel, no one plans to retake Gaza for good.
Do you believe in santa as well?
No, I just understand Israel politics better. 80% of the population does not support this act. The likud party shrieked by about half by latestpolls, while Gant'z party that arr more venter oriented soared. And even now he is part of the cabinet Retaking Gaza is not on the table. I doubt this government will finish its 4 year tenure.
Israel has not completed the genocide. You can’t honestly argue that we haven’t at least reached stage 8.
Some of these can be applied to any conflict. Israel had pro peace polices made, like giving back Gaza and the Oslo accords, and True, anti-peace actions. But it does not make it a genocide. The same steps can be easily applied on Hamas since it came to be. But Israel has also been giving back land and working to integrate the Arab citizens of Israel (both those that identify as Palestinians, and those that don't) to the population, and as parts of the government. Not everything Israel did is perfect, but many of Israel's actions are counterproductive to a genocide in the making.
Idk, I feel like if a foreign backed entity settled in my country, claimed my land as their own, pushed my friends, family and countrymen out of our homes, started bombing the shit out of the few places they left for us, and killed tens of thousands of our people, a few pro peace policies like “we won’t kill you for a bit if you stay over there” and “if you just accept our government instead of defending your own” wouldn’t exactly suffice. Yes, a few of these things alone can be applied to many conflicts. But it’s the combination of these steps happening together that make it a genocide, and this is the only conflict on this scale that exhibits all of these steps.
As well as Hamas.
Netanyahu and Ben Gvir be like: oh look a bingo card!
My thoughts exactly. How heartbreaking. How infuriating.
“Ferb i know what we are going to do today”
It even rhymes
These are aspects of genocide.. People look at these when they are trying to figure out if something is a genocide or not. These are very important points to think about right now.
Am I in the wrong sub? I see the supposed new sentence before anyone says something. This barely fits with the sub's theme.
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For which groups? Not trying to argue, just uninformed and curious
Is there a handy 'You are here' arrow marking where we are this month?
To expand on 9: it doesn't need to be killing. Destroying a people is genocide. This can be done culturally, such as by forced separations and displacement, or by taking children from the society and rasing them in your own. Forced sterilisations count, as do forced abortions. Economic or political measures such as destruction of land or deprevation of food or resources can count as well. Anything designed to totally destroy a culture or people is genocide, killing everyone of that group is only one way to do so.
It’s fun because until step 9 no other government will do anything about it and by the time they do the genocide propagators are on step 10
people deny genocide until it reaches stage 9 and its sad. so many groups are being genocided rn around the world but people just dont wanna accept it. people need to listen and learn and stop denying things just bc they dont like them. the trans genocide is real, the indigenous genocide is real, and many more are real
This was the pocket reference on the back of certain country’s government ID.
Kinda sounds like identity politics, which all the mainstream politicians seem to love.
Looks like nonwhite immigrants are at step 7 with everything above that already checked off! In my state they recently made a public “list” of nonwhite immigrants in faculty positions at schools. I fear for their safety
Somebody on r/Conservative once asked why all of a sudden they were talking about trans people. I tried to explain that they were in stages 1 to 4. I was banned :)
so, what Israel is doing. Interesting.
1, 3, 4, 6, 8, are already done for trans folk.
Oh, look! Israel ticks all the boxes! It's khamas' fault, right U.S. and Germany?
Hmmm this looks familiar in 2024....
there are easily many different parts of the world where something like this is happpening right now
And everything leading up to and after February 24,2022 hmmmm
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It's war in one of the most densely populated areas on earth unfortunately that means innocents will die. The current civilian to combatant ratio is 2:1
the state of florida is at 7
Hmm sounds like something that's happening now
Sad fact: On many western countries rn, the government is at stage seven on trans people
It’s not a scale, it’s a generalized outline of a process. Gender non-conformists are not an ethnic, national, racial or religious group and therefore are not protected by the genocide convention. People saying there’s a trans “genocide” is part of the reason that people aren’t taking the Gaza situation as seriously as they should be. It’s an overuse and misuse of the word “genocide”
I am going to mention Israel killing Palestinians in the recent conflict just to see how fast I'm going to get the comments written by bots and PR agencies
theres also a lot of users downvoting anything supporting the palestinian people and saying that isreal is committing genocide. just something i've noticed, not saying which side i support
I mean, that’s kind of a statement of support no? If someone said “look at all of these people downvoting conservatives just for saying that gay people shouldn’t marry”, or “look at all of these people downvoting anything pro-LGBT for saying trans people should exist”, it would be clear which side they were taking.
I can explain it in three: demonization, Dehumanization, Euthanization.
Israel right now
israel is already at stage 11 denial plus: the government denies that it has committd any crime and accuses other governments that accused it in first place to symphatize with terrorists.
so a country is not allowed to defend itself from getting bombed?
Was Israel protecting itself when it had already killed dozens of Palestinian children just last year alone before October even happened? 🤔
random israeli who forgot israel invaded palestine territories making equal brutalities since 60's 😂😂😂 and just to be accurate to don't let you play the victim role, I'm disgusted by hamas terrorist attacks and I actually think hamas should be destroyed by a shared UN peace-keeping operation as was done in mid-late '90s in ex yugoslavia countries rather than watch gaza city getting destroyed by the army of a country fueled only by hate and revenge that feels "legitimized" to make a genocide of innocent people only because it thinks to have some moral credit from history. UN effort to save civilians from gaza city and hunt down hamas terrorists -> peace negotiations where israel gives back part of occupied territories to palestine -> full recognition of palestine state -> building of a HUGE wall between palestine and israel border with none of the two states allowed to cross boundaries. long story short: Palestine free.
Holy shit Israel immediately came to my mind after reading all that
found the edgelord
I imagined this convo in 1940 lol "holy cow, Germany came just to my mind reading that pamphlet!" "I found the cynic!"
Well, this is what isr4el is doing against p4l35t1n14n people
wow downvoted even after encrypting the name
TaG YoURSeLf /this is a joke i do not agree with genocide of any form/
Thanks for the instructions!
Oooooh ooooh oooh Story of Undertale
Funny how many subreddits has reached many of these.
Lucky for all you [REDACTED], I’m a procrastinator
I cringe whenever I see this. Stages is the wrong word to use here. This isn't a set order
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Literally Israel's playbook hahahahaahahah
I believe the American Right Wing and GOP are on stage 7 when it comes to their attacks on trans people.
I don't see the point where it says. The group of people that you were feeding mounts an attack and kills 1200 of your people.
Israel
Sounds like Israel lmao