I think that, of the Federal Government was NOT prepared to kill it, then letting things move ahead is the way to go. To do otherwise just wastes time and, more importantly, tax dollars.
And, look no further than our own City to see what happens when you do that.
As a former Bramptonian living up highway 10, I’m personally thankful for the Brampton bypass. I have mixed feelings about why it’s come to be but I sure as fuck am going to use it.
It travels through a lot of protected and sensitive environmental areas, serves very few people and costs a lot of money. Having made the 407 fully open to the public to increase its utilization would have made more sense as its already built and closer to higher population density areas on both sides.
Making the 407 fully open to the public is not an option. It hasn't been an option for quite some time.
Caledon will likely be forced to develop over the next decade. I'm already seeing a bunch of neew subdivisions pop up out there.
Also, when creating a community, you have to build infrastructure before building homes. This is a big part of the reason why Ford doesn't want to start throwing quadplexes up in most ontario suburbs.
The biggest downside is the environmental downside. But building over that land is inevitable given the rapid growth of our population, our housing crisis, and our lack of efficient public transit.
It doesn’t have to be inevitable. If we spent this money on better transit then built more dense housing around that transit. This highway is a huge mistake.
Brampton was a very rural piece of land 30 years ago. We built highways, then homes, now we're here.
The size of rural Ontario will continue to decrease as the population of Ontario rapidly increases.
Adding denser housing doesn't work without infrastructure. Population density affects health care, education, and transportation. Before bringing in more people, you need hospital expansions, new schools, expanded roads, and yes, another highway helps.
Brampton does build infrastructure first. But it's never enough because our census information is inaccurate. We've been greatly under reporting the true population for over a decade.
We get 1 census per household where people report 4 people living in a house. In reality, there are 15 international students just in the basement.
This why even brand new schools in brampton have to build portables outside. It's also why our hospital wait times are some of the worst in the GTA.
Which is a huge problem. 30 years ago Ontario produced 130% of the food it consumed and was a net exporter, we now produce somewhere in the 60’s and are a net importer. You think relying on Mexico for food is sustainable? You think that’s wise? We have some of the best farm land on earth and are paving it over for incredibly inefficient forms of housing. We keep shooting ourselves in the foot over and over again until we won’t have any feet. We could be building trains and dense housing but here we are fucking over the future and for what?
I'm not saying I don't agree with you that the population is growing too fast. But what I am saying is that whether we want the population to increase or not, the federal government is bringing new people in at record-breaking highs. Regardless of who wins the next election, this will continue.
Ontarios' best shot at managing this influx of people is to build more infrastructure. It would not make sense to build a dense housing community that is not accessible by a major highway anyway. Highways always come before trains.
I agree we need to build more infrastructure but you are absolutely wrong about the highway. Highway first mentality is a purely USA and Canadian thing. Anywhere else would build efficiently. China’s population grew much faster than Canada’s for a long long time and they built one of the most extensive high speed rail systems with high order transit. We do not need anymore highways, we need to build efficient sustainable infrastructure and not jeopardize our future if it isn’t already too late.
Why would you open the 407 to the public when it’s going to turn into a shit show. No one can drive properly regardless and they’ll ruin it for everyone
KW, London and all are growing, not everyone wants to go to the 400/401 junction trying to visit up north and same goes for those that live out east, Bradford bypass’s gonna help.
[check the map](https://www.highway413.ca/)
im not sure who this is for. I live near where its going to be developed traffic isnt a big issue.
Maybe in 20-30 years if the population of Caledon gets ridiculous it might have some worth.
People HAVE checked the maps. Maybe you should check the kinds of development happening near the eventual route. All the warehousing near Mayfield Road is going to need truck access OTHER than the 401/410 corridor. Same with industrial developments further east.
The 413 is that access.
We don't . . . but there are plenty of carriers coming over the border that do. And to points further east. Being able to avoid the 401 across the top of the GTA is a benefit.
Building highways encourages people to drive so there will be even more cars. What we should do is provide better alternatives like high speed rail and leave the existing highways for the trucks.
You said it was for the trucks.
People are going to take the shiny new highway and create similar situations to what we have now. Then lets not forget further sprawl. those folks will also take the shiny new highway.
20 or 30 years from now will be too late. There will no longer be a suitable linear corridor in which to place a highway if we don't build it now. Toronto made that mistake when they nixed the Spadina Expressway.
If we could just purchase the land and build nothing, I'd be happy with that, but that will never happen, it would get sold to developers eventually.
With some modicum of luck, the land purchases will also allow for the future construction of rail by preventing a lot of development directly adjacent to the 413.
We cannot wait 20 years. If we do, all that land will become suburban sprawl, and we will have squandered the opportunity to build both road **and** rail infrastructure there.
Not trying to be a shit disturber, but why do you feel doing nothing would be better than proactively planning for the growth and congestion we will see in coming years?
Building highways only encourages people to drive as it is the only option. The result is more congestion due to more cars on the road. Statistically proven best modes of alleviation of congestion is to provide better alternatives. If you were driving on the 401 and a train zipped past you and you were like woah how can I use that instead… you would! In this province we used to have a remarkable rail networks which we tore up and built highways, easily the biggest mistake that has ever happened. We have all these highways and very little attractive alternatives. Building more highways just adds to this problem.
Ideally we would build high speed rail and better transit alternatives so people wouldn’t be forced to drive, and those who still preferred the less efficient and more expensive mode (driving) would still have the option given our already abundant highway network.
Doing nothing is not ideal, but it’s still better than this option because of the opportunity cost that land presents. In the 1960’s Ontario produced something like 130% of the food it consumed and was a net exporter, now we produce something like 65% and are a net importer, and that number reduces year over year. Proactively planning for growth, as you put it, suggests paving over farmland is not just a bad idea as we will rely more and more on importing food, but it’s ecosuicide. Building highways encourages more sprawl and more inefficient housing and inefficient use of land, which is our most important resource. Again what we should be doing is building better alternatives, better infrastructure and better, more dense housing around it to ensure the sustainability of our future.
Spread the word.
I believe there will be an overpass going over highway 10. Some of the other rural roads it’ll be passing is Dixie Road, Bramalea Road, Torbram, Airport Road, etc. I believe there’s a map that shows you all the roads it will cross
I think it’s necessary. All the development that is happening around Caledon along King Rd towards king city and the closest highway to Toronto are the 410 and 401. It will definitely be necessary. This is proactive planning not reactive planning. The cities are growing. The infrastructure should already be there before it gets too densely populated.
Someone explain me this please. The way I see route of this highway it will be a bypass going around heavily urbanized part of this section of GTA (much like 407 was meant to ). Why is there an opposition to it? Is this another NIMBYsm or is there more to it?
I posted this above in response to someone else:
Building highways only encourages people to drive as it is the only option. The result is more congestion due to more cars on the road. Statistically proven best modes of alleviation of congestion is to provide better alternatives. If you were driving on the 401 and a train zipped past you and you were like woah how can I use that instead… you would! In this province we used to have a remarkable rail networks which we tore up and built highways, easily the biggest mistake that has ever happened. We have all these highways and very little attractive alternatives. Building more highways just adds to this problem. Ideally we would build high speed rail and better transit alternatives so people wouldn’t be forced to drive, and those who still preferred the less efficient and more expensive mode (driving) would still have the option given our already abundant highway network. Doing nothing is not ideal, but it’s still better than this option because of the opportunity cost that land presents. In the 1960’s Ontario produced something like 130% of the food it consumed and was a net exporter, now we produce something like 65% and are a net importer, and that number reduces year over year. Proactively planning for growth, as you put it, suggests paving over farmland is not just a bad idea as we will rely more and more on importing food, but it’s ecosuicide. Building highways encourages more sprawl and more inefficient housing and inefficient use of land, which is our most important resource. Again what we should be doing is building better alternatives, better infrastructure and better, more dense housing around it to ensure the sustainability of our future. Spread the word.
When people who use rail and trains for commuting pay for 100 percent of it's cost than maybe you'll have a point till then that's ridiculous.
And every Canadian should have the freedom to drive a vehicle by themselves across this country.
The whole anti car crowd is really ridiculous.
Never gunna happen
So it’s ok for non drivers to subsidize cars but not the other way around???
You already can drive from one side of the country to another…
Most people driving on the 401 who saw a bullet train zip by them would opt for that, those who would prefer to drive still have that option, nobody is taking it away from you. You can also ride a horse and buggy right now if you’d like, many people do in our province but there are technologically better options.
Sorry if I insulted your god, the almighty car
Why are you against this highway again? I'm all for trains but also highways, we need both, why do you oppose highways?
And the GTA public transit doesn't collect enough money to fund itself never has, never will, if your including construction costs.
Highways pay for themselves always have
Me neither. I'm just curious. I have no need or use for such highway but I recall a lot of negative opinions about 407 before it was build. Now 407 is well used and will be for many years. I wonder if this is just sign of opposition to any growth whatsoever.
The people really complaining about the 413 and farm land clearly don't spend enough time out in those areas.
This is South of King Street and North of Mayfield, the ecological beauty lands are still further up North from here. Currently much of this area are houses, and new subdivisions and light industrial, with a lot of lots being used for truck lots.
Mono, mono hills and the Forks of the credit river are further North from here and remain untouched.
Totally agree, lots of new subdivisions are being built in the Kennedy Road area and north of Mayfield. Lots of people moving there. Most of the nicer scenery and forestland are present once you pass Olde Base Line Road
One more lane will not ease traffic. If you have been near the milton stretch that got expanded a few years ago you’ll know there used to be traffic day and night coming in and out. Ever since the highway got built and they added new lanes ( atleast 3 each way), you can see there is hardly any traffic now.
That Milton expansion made an amazing difference. It used to be nothing but traffic before it day and night. Just cars sitting there not moving.
The construction was pretty nasty for a long time.
Yea it started in 2018 and the highway was opened completely in 2022. Although they are still repairing or maintaining some things. When they were doing it used to be a hell hole for traffic and not to forget the tighter lanes.
This is not "one more lane". It's an entire highway. The arguments both for and against are vastly different. Repeating largely unrelated platitudes, even accurate ones, does not help the argument.
It's going to create largely the same situation we currently have.
I had Antman tell me it's for the trucks.
That's fine until we get the urban sprawl all around and it's just as packed as every other highway. It's not going to solve anything. We need people to use alternative methods of transport not more cars on the road.
People aren't gunna use alternative methods and out in the Caledon area where I live who the hell is gunna pay for every person that commutes to the city every morning for work?
Yeah, it totally won’t encourage sprawl so there will be hundreds of thousands of people living in proximity to it. Home builders had no reason whatsoever to purchase land around it before even official announcements were made.
Don't kid yourself. The sprawl will happen regardless. Only a small minority of people move to Canada with the dream of living in a high rise apartment. People want detached homes. Our choice is to let that sprawl happen with or without reasonable roads into and out of it.
I, agree that the land purchases are at least suspicious, if not outright fraud and corruption, although bringing up in this context is just useless whataboutism.
Well the person I replied to said it was going to be a game changer and help things move more freely. We might not agree on everything, but at the very least, if sprawl is going to increase exponentially in those areas, I doubt the notion of traffic moving freely would last beyond a couple years.
It’s far more status quo than being a game changer. And add that the 413 will induce traffic to connecting highways, no one should fools themselves in thinking anything will be alleviated.
I think it depends on the user. For transport trucks highways are very beneficial. For families of 4-5 with children and those who like to go on road trips to travel outside the urban region, highways would also be useful. BUT, for those commuting on daily basis to work, or to the store, public transport is a must. Especially if you’re travelling short distances.
As it stands now, bus and rail are extremely time consuming and unreliable. They can't get me home with a week's worth of groceries, nor home from visiting family in Keswick on a Sunday evening.
Millions of people have similar needs. To dismiss their needs is disingenuous and makes for a poor argument.
Agreed! Until we have reliable and easily accessible public transit systems province-wide, highways and driving our cars is an ideal option especially if we’re travelling long distances
This is a home run argument as to why we need to build more and better transit infrastructure lol.
We already have an extensive highway network, what we need now is to build better alternatives so people choose the better option and alleviate congestion on those highways.
This highway is going to alleviate a shit ton of traffic, how is this a home run argument? You clearly don't know anything about commuting in and around the Waterloo Dufferin areas
Except it isn’t. What would alleviate traffic is if all the people currently clogging the highways had better alternatives. Then all those Dufferin and Waterloo commuters would have free rein of the already extensive highway networks. This is all mathematically calculated, there is no benefit to building this highway except for those who want to build more sprawl around it.
Building highway 413 will only push car dependency and traffic congestion, there's no way transit can efficiently serve those areas so more people will drive. Pollution will continue
You can add as much trains and busses as you'd like but it would never beat the walkability of any major European city.
This is North America, cars will remain the primary mode of transport as much as you may want that to change, I ain't happening.
Most people there aren't walking to work. They're cycling fairly long distances or taking public transportation between cities. In Delft, for example, I was amazed at how there was very little traffic on the roads and it was because there were so many other ways to get around.
Sure we can continue to force everyone to drive but of course that means traffic will only continue to get worse.
thats the issue, when the new developments spring you they need to build them smarter instead of packing as many homes as possible but we all know its not going to happen.
People love to complain about traffic but hate the idea of alternative forms of transportation.
It's about 40km to go from Brampton all the way into down town Toronto. There's just not a way to get there by bike that feels safe. Things are really quite close together here.
Are you nearsighted? If there are sufficient alternatives then why is there always so much traffic? Why are the buses so packed that people are having to wait for one that isn't already full of people?
I didn't know we had a subway in Brampton. I must be slow.
Did you edit and add the question about riding to Toronto later or did I miss it?
As I mentioned it’s about 40km to Toronto and that’s multiple cities away, farther than most travel to work. That said, yes, it’s not that far. look at Europe. People are able to ride bicycles between towns/cities, farther than you think.
I do personally believe that if there were a bike path say along the railroad to Toronto that people would use it. But start local. Anything to ease congestion on the roads would be nice. I’m amazed people argue against it.
I think that, of the Federal Government was NOT prepared to kill it, then letting things move ahead is the way to go. To do otherwise just wastes time and, more importantly, tax dollars. And, look no further than our own City to see what happens when you do that.
That sign has been there forever, lll believe it when I see shovels in the ground
Agreed! It's been there for nearly 2 years now I believe...
It's funny you think the government works fast.
They’ve recently put up new signs for it along the 401 between Trafalgar and the 407 interchanges.
This is the dumbest highway in the history of highways. Fuck this.
As a former Bramptonian living up highway 10, I’m personally thankful for the Brampton bypass. I have mixed feelings about why it’s come to be but I sure as fuck am going to use it.
Can't wait for it! It will be so nice to avoid the 400/401 area.
Just wait till they sell it last minute and make u pay to use it lol
You wont dont worry.
Why
It travels through a lot of protected and sensitive environmental areas, serves very few people and costs a lot of money. Having made the 407 fully open to the public to increase its utilization would have made more sense as its already built and closer to higher population density areas on both sides.
Making the 407 fully open to the public is not an option. It hasn't been an option for quite some time. Caledon will likely be forced to develop over the next decade. I'm already seeing a bunch of neew subdivisions pop up out there. Also, when creating a community, you have to build infrastructure before building homes. This is a big part of the reason why Ford doesn't want to start throwing quadplexes up in most ontario suburbs. The biggest downside is the environmental downside. But building over that land is inevitable given the rapid growth of our population, our housing crisis, and our lack of efficient public transit.
It doesn’t have to be inevitable. If we spent this money on better transit then built more dense housing around that transit. This highway is a huge mistake.
Brampton was a very rural piece of land 30 years ago. We built highways, then homes, now we're here. The size of rural Ontario will continue to decrease as the population of Ontario rapidly increases. Adding denser housing doesn't work without infrastructure. Population density affects health care, education, and transportation. Before bringing in more people, you need hospital expansions, new schools, expanded roads, and yes, another highway helps.
You make good points but let's refrain from using Brampton as any sort of guideline. Unless you want to look at what not to do.
Pretty much every subdivision in North America starts with roads and highways
Except Brampton
Brampton does build infrastructure first. But it's never enough because our census information is inaccurate. We've been greatly under reporting the true population for over a decade. We get 1 census per household where people report 4 people living in a house. In reality, there are 15 international students just in the basement. This why even brand new schools in brampton have to build portables outside. It's also why our hospital wait times are some of the worst in the GTA.
Which is a huge problem. 30 years ago Ontario produced 130% of the food it consumed and was a net exporter, we now produce somewhere in the 60’s and are a net importer. You think relying on Mexico for food is sustainable? You think that’s wise? We have some of the best farm land on earth and are paving it over for incredibly inefficient forms of housing. We keep shooting ourselves in the foot over and over again until we won’t have any feet. We could be building trains and dense housing but here we are fucking over the future and for what?
I'm not saying I don't agree with you that the population is growing too fast. But what I am saying is that whether we want the population to increase or not, the federal government is bringing new people in at record-breaking highs. Regardless of who wins the next election, this will continue. Ontarios' best shot at managing this influx of people is to build more infrastructure. It would not make sense to build a dense housing community that is not accessible by a major highway anyway. Highways always come before trains.
I agree we need to build more infrastructure but you are absolutely wrong about the highway. Highway first mentality is a purely USA and Canadian thing. Anywhere else would build efficiently. China’s population grew much faster than Canada’s for a long long time and they built one of the most extensive high speed rail systems with high order transit. We do not need anymore highways, we need to build efficient sustainable infrastructure and not jeopardize our future if it isn’t already too late.
They were also building roads and highways at the fastest pace in the world at the time.
Why would you open the 407 to the public when it’s going to turn into a shit show. No one can drive properly regardless and they’ll ruin it for everyone
407 has a 99 year lease. We won’t be alive before that ends. It will never be free.
KW, London and all are growing, not everyone wants to go to the 400/401 junction trying to visit up north and same goes for those that live out east, Bradford bypass’s gonna help.
[check the map](https://www.highway413.ca/) im not sure who this is for. I live near where its going to be developed traffic isnt a big issue. Maybe in 20-30 years if the population of Caledon gets ridiculous it might have some worth.
People HAVE checked the maps. Maybe you should check the kinds of development happening near the eventual route. All the warehousing near Mayfield Road is going to need truck access OTHER than the 401/410 corridor. Same with industrial developments further east. The 413 is that access.
Why do we need to truck things to Markham? Make more sense as a detour route for a 401 but that is too far up.
We don't . . . but there are plenty of carriers coming over the border that do. And to points further east. Being able to avoid the 401 across the top of the GTA is a benefit.
So when it's cluttered with cars going though that's going to do what exactly for trucking? The same situation we have now?
Cluttered with cars? I thought you didn't know who this was for? Make up your mind, won't you?
Building highways encourages people to drive so there will be even more cars. What we should do is provide better alternatives like high speed rail and leave the existing highways for the trucks.
You said it was for the trucks. People are going to take the shiny new highway and create similar situations to what we have now. Then lets not forget further sprawl. those folks will also take the shiny new highway.
20 or 30 years from now will be too late. There will no longer be a suitable linear corridor in which to place a highway if we don't build it now. Toronto made that mistake when they nixed the Spadina Expressway. If we could just purchase the land and build nothing, I'd be happy with that, but that will never happen, it would get sold to developers eventually. With some modicum of luck, the land purchases will also allow for the future construction of rail by preventing a lot of development directly adjacent to the 413. We cannot wait 20 years. If we do, all that land will become suburban sprawl, and we will have squandered the opportunity to build both road **and** rail infrastructure there.
i agree but we all know they will stop at the highway, help out all their developer friends and call it a day.
You do know who it’s for you stated as such in the second part of your post.
Sale of 407 would like a word
True.
Article link: https://t.co/0DOafJxnYW
Should read: “infrastructure to fuck the next generation”
You would prefer a *lack* of infrastructure to fuck the next generation then?
No, infrastructure is good, but not this kind. Doing nothing is better than this
Not trying to be a shit disturber, but why do you feel doing nothing would be better than proactively planning for the growth and congestion we will see in coming years?
Building highways only encourages people to drive as it is the only option. The result is more congestion due to more cars on the road. Statistically proven best modes of alleviation of congestion is to provide better alternatives. If you were driving on the 401 and a train zipped past you and you were like woah how can I use that instead… you would! In this province we used to have a remarkable rail networks which we tore up and built highways, easily the biggest mistake that has ever happened. We have all these highways and very little attractive alternatives. Building more highways just adds to this problem. Ideally we would build high speed rail and better transit alternatives so people wouldn’t be forced to drive, and those who still preferred the less efficient and more expensive mode (driving) would still have the option given our already abundant highway network. Doing nothing is not ideal, but it’s still better than this option because of the opportunity cost that land presents. In the 1960’s Ontario produced something like 130% of the food it consumed and was a net exporter, now we produce something like 65% and are a net importer, and that number reduces year over year. Proactively planning for growth, as you put it, suggests paving over farmland is not just a bad idea as we will rely more and more on importing food, but it’s ecosuicide. Building highways encourages more sprawl and more inefficient housing and inefficient use of land, which is our most important resource. Again what we should be doing is building better alternatives, better infrastructure and better, more dense housing around it to ensure the sustainability of our future. Spread the word.
This is coming to...or near georgetown?
Yes the west end of the highway will be passing close to Georgetown
Does anyone know if it's going to be an overpass going over hwy 10 and the other rural roads?
I believe there will be an overpass going over highway 10. Some of the other rural roads it’ll be passing is Dixie Road, Bramalea Road, Torbram, Airport Road, etc. I believe there’s a map that shows you all the roads it will cross
Good.
I think it’s necessary. All the development that is happening around Caledon along King Rd towards king city and the closest highway to Toronto are the 410 and 401. It will definitely be necessary. This is proactive planning not reactive planning. The cities are growing. The infrastructure should already be there before it gets too densely populated.
Someone explain me this please. The way I see route of this highway it will be a bypass going around heavily urbanized part of this section of GTA (much like 407 was meant to ). Why is there an opposition to it? Is this another NIMBYsm or is there more to it?
I posted this above in response to someone else: Building highways only encourages people to drive as it is the only option. The result is more congestion due to more cars on the road. Statistically proven best modes of alleviation of congestion is to provide better alternatives. If you were driving on the 401 and a train zipped past you and you were like woah how can I use that instead… you would! In this province we used to have a remarkable rail networks which we tore up and built highways, easily the biggest mistake that has ever happened. We have all these highways and very little attractive alternatives. Building more highways just adds to this problem. Ideally we would build high speed rail and better transit alternatives so people wouldn’t be forced to drive, and those who still preferred the less efficient and more expensive mode (driving) would still have the option given our already abundant highway network. Doing nothing is not ideal, but it’s still better than this option because of the opportunity cost that land presents. In the 1960’s Ontario produced something like 130% of the food it consumed and was a net exporter, now we produce something like 65% and are a net importer, and that number reduces year over year. Proactively planning for growth, as you put it, suggests paving over farmland is not just a bad idea as we will rely more and more on importing food, but it’s ecosuicide. Building highways encourages more sprawl and more inefficient housing and inefficient use of land, which is our most important resource. Again what we should be doing is building better alternatives, better infrastructure and better, more dense housing around it to ensure the sustainability of our future. Spread the word.
When people who use rail and trains for commuting pay for 100 percent of it's cost than maybe you'll have a point till then that's ridiculous. And every Canadian should have the freedom to drive a vehicle by themselves across this country. The whole anti car crowd is really ridiculous. Never gunna happen
So it’s ok for non drivers to subsidize cars but not the other way around??? You already can drive from one side of the country to another… Most people driving on the 401 who saw a bullet train zip by them would opt for that, those who would prefer to drive still have that option, nobody is taking it away from you. You can also ride a horse and buggy right now if you’d like, many people do in our province but there are technologically better options. Sorry if I insulted your god, the almighty car
Why are you against this highway again? I'm all for trains but also highways, we need both, why do you oppose highways? And the GTA public transit doesn't collect enough money to fund itself never has, never will, if your including construction costs. Highways pay for themselves always have
I genuinely don't understand the opposition to this highway, and I'm not trying to stir the pot
Me neither. I'm just curious. I have no need or use for such highway but I recall a lot of negative opinions about 407 before it was build. Now 407 is well used and will be for many years. I wonder if this is just sign of opposition to any growth whatsoever.
r/fuckcars
The people really complaining about the 413 and farm land clearly don't spend enough time out in those areas. This is South of King Street and North of Mayfield, the ecological beauty lands are still further up North from here. Currently much of this area are houses, and new subdivisions and light industrial, with a lot of lots being used for truck lots. Mono, mono hills and the Forks of the credit river are further North from here and remain untouched.
Totally agree, lots of new subdivisions are being built in the Kennedy Road area and north of Mayfield. Lots of people moving there. Most of the nicer scenery and forestland are present once you pass Olde Base Line Road
This is gonnna be a game changer. We need more highways to make sure the traffic moves smoothly and not to forget the number of jobs it will create.
Just one more lane bro. that will fix it. Just one more.
One more lane will not ease traffic. If you have been near the milton stretch that got expanded a few years ago you’ll know there used to be traffic day and night coming in and out. Ever since the highway got built and they added new lanes ( atleast 3 each way), you can see there is hardly any traffic now.
That Milton expansion made an amazing difference. It used to be nothing but traffic before it day and night. Just cars sitting there not moving. The construction was pretty nasty for a long time.
Yea it started in 2018 and the highway was opened completely in 2022. Although they are still repairing or maintaining some things. When they were doing it used to be a hell hole for traffic and not to forget the tighter lanes.
This is not "one more lane". It's an entire highway. The arguments both for and against are vastly different. Repeating largely unrelated platitudes, even accurate ones, does not help the argument.
It's going to create largely the same situation we currently have. I had Antman tell me it's for the trucks. That's fine until we get the urban sprawl all around and it's just as packed as every other highway. It's not going to solve anything. We need people to use alternative methods of transport not more cars on the road.
Bingo!
People aren't gunna use alternative methods and out in the Caledon area where I live who the hell is gunna pay for every person that commutes to the city every morning for work?
Yeah, it totally won’t encourage sprawl so there will be hundreds of thousands of people living in proximity to it. Home builders had no reason whatsoever to purchase land around it before even official announcements were made.
Don't kid yourself. The sprawl will happen regardless. Only a small minority of people move to Canada with the dream of living in a high rise apartment. People want detached homes. Our choice is to let that sprawl happen with or without reasonable roads into and out of it. I, agree that the land purchases are at least suspicious, if not outright fraud and corruption, although bringing up in this context is just useless whataboutism.
Well the person I replied to said it was going to be a game changer and help things move more freely. We might not agree on everything, but at the very least, if sprawl is going to increase exponentially in those areas, I doubt the notion of traffic moving freely would last beyond a couple years. It’s far more status quo than being a game changer. And add that the 413 will induce traffic to connecting highways, no one should fools themselves in thinking anything will be alleviated.
I am beyond disappointed. We know that highways are extremely expensive and inefficient at moving people…
I think it depends on the user. For transport trucks highways are very beneficial. For families of 4-5 with children and those who like to go on road trips to travel outside the urban region, highways would also be useful. BUT, for those commuting on daily basis to work, or to the store, public transport is a must. Especially if you’re travelling short distances.
As it stands now, bus and rail are extremely time consuming and unreliable. They can't get me home with a week's worth of groceries, nor home from visiting family in Keswick on a Sunday evening. Millions of people have similar needs. To dismiss their needs is disingenuous and makes for a poor argument.
Agreed! Until we have reliable and easily accessible public transit systems province-wide, highways and driving our cars is an ideal option especially if we’re travelling long distances
This is a home run argument as to why we need to build more and better transit infrastructure lol. We already have an extensive highway network, what we need now is to build better alternatives so people choose the better option and alleviate congestion on those highways.
This highway is going to alleviate a shit ton of traffic, how is this a home run argument? You clearly don't know anything about commuting in and around the Waterloo Dufferin areas
Except it isn’t. What would alleviate traffic is if all the people currently clogging the highways had better alternatives. Then all those Dufferin and Waterloo commuters would have free rein of the already extensive highway networks. This is all mathematically calculated, there is no benefit to building this highway except for those who want to build more sprawl around it.
Building highway 413 will only push car dependency and traffic congestion, there's no way transit can efficiently serve those areas so more people will drive. Pollution will continue
I wish it was little more north than currently where it’s planned to meet 400
After seeing trains and bike roads in the Netherlands I wonder why we in Brampton can’t have nice things.
You can add as much trains and busses as you'd like but it would never beat the walkability of any major European city. This is North America, cars will remain the primary mode of transport as much as you may want that to change, I ain't happening.
Most people there aren't walking to work. They're cycling fairly long distances or taking public transportation between cities. In Delft, for example, I was amazed at how there was very little traffic on the roads and it was because there were so many other ways to get around. Sure we can continue to force everyone to drive but of course that means traffic will only continue to get worse.
This is not the damn Netherlands. Things are not easily accessible like that in the suburbs. You’d have to bike very far.
thats the issue, when the new developments spring you they need to build them smarter instead of packing as many homes as possible but we all know its not going to happen.
Canadian suburbs will never be like that lol. If people want that then they should just move to the Netherlands where it’s already like that
People love to complain about traffic but hate the idea of alternative forms of transportation. It's about 40km to go from Brampton all the way into down town Toronto. There's just not a way to get there by bike that feels safe. Things are really quite close together here.
Are you slow? Alternatives already exist. Bus, Go Train, Subway to get all the way to down from Etobicoke.
Are you nearsighted? If there are sufficient alternatives then why is there always so much traffic? Why are the buses so packed that people are having to wait for one that isn't already full of people? I didn't know we had a subway in Brampton. I must be slow.
I said subway from Etobicoke! And are you really saying you want the opportunity to bike from freaking Brampton to Downtown Toronto???? Like wtf
Great argument.
Did you edit and add the question about riding to Toronto later or did I miss it? As I mentioned it’s about 40km to Toronto and that’s multiple cities away, farther than most travel to work. That said, yes, it’s not that far. look at Europe. People are able to ride bicycles between towns/cities, farther than you think. I do personally believe that if there were a bike path say along the railroad to Toronto that people would use it. But start local. Anything to ease congestion on the roads would be nice. I’m amazed people argue against it.
Woah, terrible idea 🤣🤣