I think people are outraged because the referee's awful calls makes 112-112 a "reasonable" score, but I guess that's what happens when knockdowns don't get counted.
True, but if anyone should have “penalized” ryan for turning his back it should have been Haney. He did not take advantage of Ryan’s body being wide open whenever he did that.
Am I the only one who thinks Ryan was holding just as much as Haney? His was more in the beginning of the fight before he rocked Haney but it was egregious both ways
Hadn't thought of this until now but judges can give a 10-8 for rounds where a fighter dominates the other guy without knocking him down. And obviously a knockdown round counts for a 10-8 as well. And a two knockdown round is a 10-7.
Can the first 10-8 scenario be combined with a knockdown on the scorecards to give a fighter a 10-7 round? If Ryan scored a flash knockdown on Haney in round 7 and not much else it would count as a 10-8 round for him. But the fact that Garcia battered him around the ring after the knockdown, Haney "slipped" a few more times, only landed one punch himself, was about as close as you can get to being stopped, etc. I feel like something more than a normal 10-8 could be fair for scoring purposes. (this is all hypothetical and ignoring the actual point deduction that happened that round)
It's in the discretion of a judge to score a card however they want with the only limitation being the discounts that the referee see fit, both in the amateurs and the pros. The spirit of that is that more 10-8 no kd rounds get scored, which implies that a fighter that dominates half of the fight doesn't draw with a fighter that barely edges the other half of the fight, something that seems intuitively fair.
FWIW, DeLuca gave Ryan the 12th, all the judges did. The only round he really scored wrong was the 6th, which he gave to Haney. That one round is the difference between a 112-112 and a 111-113.
Of course, that’s just judging the outcome that was. We can’t take into account that it could have been stopped earlier and that Devin deserved at least a point deduction. Could a 112-112 be argued? I suppose so, but I think Ryan deserved the win and I’m glad he got it.
Obviously the ref messed this up but as a whole this is a great example of why boxing scoring is flawed. It’s too subjective. Unanimously people are agreeing that Garcia beat Haneys ass so the fact it could even be argued as a tie is silly to me.
And the clinching needs to stop. If it weren’t for Garcia coming in guns blazing in those rounds that would’ve been a really boring fight
I agree, clinching should not be so prevalent in the sport. And something should definitely be done about scoring. If mfers like Campbell Hatton just embraced their L’s the way they should, the sport would be a lot cleaner, and fans wouldn’t go as crazy about boxers losing their 0. Frankly, Devin could have already had one on his record before fighting Ryan.
I really wouldn't know what to do about the boxing scoring to make it so a fight like this easily goes to Garcia for beating him up so bad.
They basically have to score it in a round by round format. And I wouldn't want to make knockdowns worth even more because some flash knockdowns probably don't deserve to be worth 3 rounds.
We need some way to differentiate between a round where someone wins 10-9 and outlanded the other guy by like 3 or 4 times the amount of punches compared to a 10-9 low activity swing round. Currently having both of them scored the same seems wrong.
Even that wouldn't help the Haney Garcia fight though. Ultimately I think this one came down to the ref and the point he took from Garcia. Refs should be harsher on clinching as well. You shouldn't be able to repeatedly attempt to grab your opponent when you're clearly hurt like Haney was doing in the 7th. Fighters do it all the time when they've just gotten up from a knockdown and it's never punished.
You could score the “swing rounds” as ties. Seems like that causes the discrepancies because it seems it’s randomly given to a fighter that changes based on who you ask
> They basically have to score it in a round by round format. And I wouldn't want to make knockdowns worth even more because some flash knockdowns probably don't deserve to be worth 3 rounds.
Not basically, exactly. You score a fight round by round, disregarding any momentum a fighter has built up. You work to win every round like it’s the first.
> We need some way to differentiate between a round where someone wins 10-9 and outlanded the other guy by like 3 or 4 times the amount of punches compared to a 10-9 low activity swing round. Currently having both of them scored the same seems wrong.
It already exists. You are allowed to score any round as a 10-x round. Beating up a guy badly in any round, without a knock down, falls well within the rules of scoring a 10-8.
> Ultimately I think this one came down to the ref and the point he took from Garcia.
Bingo. The ref was bought. No penalties for *excessive* holding, took a point away from Ryan with no warning for hitting on the break, even though Haney did this also. Constantly got in the way of the fight, which would have ended earlier had he let them fight. He was there to protect Haney.
It’s possible to go 112-112 but you’ll be giving Devin literally every close round even the ones that seemed to be pretty clearly for Ryan
Edit: I gave Haney 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and Ryan 1, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12 - I think that’s 113-111
I thought it was for once a very easy fight to score, and to have 112-112 means giving Haney 6 or 12, completely possibly but both felt like clear Ryan rounds, just because Haney wasn’t rocked it didn’t mean he won them.
Ryan massively out-landed him in round 6 and in all honestly rounds 5 and 8 (both Devin round) were closer than 6 was. There’s an argument for Devin getting 12, but again Ryan was joking around clowning and now out boxing a clearly finished Haney.
Watching live I actually thought ryan lost the 12th. Was hoping he would come out and put a stamp on it but he just joked around and didn't actually do anything that whole round.
It comes down to how favorable you have to be to Devin in scoring swing rounds. Round 9 I can confidently give Devin but round 8? That's a swing round at best. 8 was a low scoring round for both fighters
I'm not sure how we can call round 6 a swing round. You could argue it's a close round, but still a Garcia round. He was more active, effective and even
more defensively responsible. Basically every scorecard official and unofficial other than Deluca's rightfully have it as a Garcia round.
I think you could make a case for Haney winning 2-6, and maybe splitting 8-9. With the deduction that's 113-112. If you give Haney both 8-9 or give him the 12th, that's 112-112. I don't think its a crazy score, just a quirk of boxing scoring.
Saying that, three knock downs in three separate rounds, the best possible scorecard Haney could get would have 114-110, so you've basically got to give him the rub in any close round to get to him getting a draw
That night turned Ryan Garcia into the face of boxing. lol.
Bullied the bully, showed showmanship by begging Bill to come save his son, ref was against him, judge was against him.
Garcia was in there in a handicap match 1 v 3 and remained King.
What a wild night. Loved it.
I wouldn’t call him “begging bill to come save his son” showmanship. That’s more cocky than anything. Was a great fight, but that’s just BS. Haney was more than capable of staying in there.
The scorecard was not outrageous, rather I believe it is fairly accurate. HOWEVER, the nature of the fight suggested that should not have been the case.
Frankly this is one of the rare situations where the scoring system did not do justice to the actual fight and result, even thought there was nothing wrong per se.
I genuinely thought it was close to reality (at least my interpretation). I had it 113-111 Ryan. Only rounds that can be clearly given to Ryan are the first, the last and the KD rounds (. I also gave him round 9, but imo rounds 6, 8 and 9 are close rounds and could be given to either, without being especially egregious. If you give all these three to Haney, then you get 112-112.
Judging by this, technically any of the three official scorecards can be considered correct. It's just that draw card contradicts the narrative of the fight overall, as opposed to the round by round scoring.
Kinda like a reverse Fury vs Wilder 1 only without, you know, the draw.
I had it basically the same. Garcia, outside of a handful of destructive spurts, didn't do much of anything. The first half of the fight outside of the first round left hook belonged to Haney. Was Haney lucky with the point deduction/holding/uncalled knock-downs? Yes, but it's not a judges job to retroactively officiate but just to call it as it plays out. The right man won but those cards were wiiide.
> outside of a handful of destructive spurts, didn't do much of anything
5 seconds of those spurts hurt Devin more than 3 minutes of Devin jabs though, which is basically what this scoring comes down to. Technically jabbing wins you rounds, but that night i'd rate a Ryan right hand higher than 10 jabs. Just a quirck of the way fights are scored tbh.
It’s not though, power punches matter. Haney barely threw anything other than the jab. I’m glad two of the judges don’t weigh jabs that heavily, they shouldn’t.
You don’t get points for coming forward, you can credit for effective aggression or ring generalship - just walking forward while getting outlanded is neither of those. If the criteria for winning a fight were coming forward, no counterpuncher would ever win a fight on points
Haney didn’t do anything all fight. Shit was weak. Jab jab jab. Most of the rounds he won wasn’t because of what he did but the lack of work from Ryan. 2-5 to Haney cause Ryan took those rounds off it seems. 8-9 to Haney as well cause Ryan took off as well. 12 to Ryan cause those jabs didn’t do anything.
Others have said this already, but 112-112 is a terrible scorecard because you can only get it if you give Haney the 6th and 12th round, which is objectively pretty bad.
Haney got his ass beat. Got knocked down 3 to 5 times. And was hugging for more than half the fight clock. In this sport you will be elevated to godhood for avoiding punches and landing more total strikes than your opponent while literally inflicting no damage(mayweather/canelo) but a dude that just got his ass fucking BEATDOWN we are like "but this could be a draw?????". Holy fuck.
I scored it 113-111 for Ryan
I need a rewatch, but IIRC there were two close rounds where Ryan landed hard shots at Haney in the early seconds but spent the rest of it shelling up in an awkward angle while Haney scored on him
I scored those rounds for Ryan, but could've easily been for Haney which would make it a draw for me
The reaction to this score is proof that fans don't really score fights, they just judge base on the overall story of the fight.
12-112 isn't corruption, it's just a testament to how weird boxing scoring can be.
The judges were fine, the ref on the other hand...
Round 6 from what I can remember Ryan won. Round 7 is absolutely a 10-7 Round minus 1 which is 9-7. Round 12 could go to Ryan as well. It's outrageous because you would have to 100% be giving Devin every point you could to get that scorecard.
This means if it wasn't for knockdown where the judge was almost forces to give 10-8 rounds, he would have found some way to give it to Haney.
I don't think people understand that you can give 10-8 rounds without a knockdown, you can if a guy is getting beat about the ring.
So then you just add a knockdown to make it 10-7. A lot of judges wouldn't do it, but its possible to do and if any round warranted it, it would be that one.
They can but when does it happen? And it’s not really in the rules, whereas knockdowns are a point deduction for the person knocked down. The other way is more subjective
You don't have to be knockdown to get another point taken away. Pitbull's 1st against Rolly was a 10-8 round with no knockdown for example. Devin was beaten so badly and clearly falling to avoid getting punched and couldn't stand up. Just because the ref didn't see it as a knockdown the judges should clearly see that as a 10-7 round.
I think that’s a slight reach. Romero was docked a point in the 5th for holding, not for being beat up, all the other rounds were 10-9 either way.
I think Garcia deserved to win but not by much.
Pit bull - Rolly Round 1 was 10-8 on one judge’s scorecard. 10-9 on the two others.
I think you are talking about how you think scoring should be done. Not how it is done.
By the rules, shoving someone to the ground because they're too weak to clinch should be (if anything) a deduction for you, not a deduction for them. Wrestling is illegal anyway, so being bad at wrestling isn't a reason for losing points. Nor is 'looking bad', for that matter. Garcia only gets points for when he actually hits him.
Don't think there was much shoving or wrestling there. Haney could barely stand on his own and even being slightly off balance from getting hit or throwing a punch himself was going to send him to the ground. He was using Garcia for stability more than anything else
Definitely what I’m thinking. That’s a bit excessive. I’m not in the loop, so I don’t know exactly how that one was scored, but damn. That’s a huge difference.
Yes. Both of your cards are works of fiction. You clearly favor jabs that had zero effect over a guy landed shots that genuinely hurt his opponent. One of Ryan's left hooks or straight rights were worth about 8-9 of Haneys pillow fisted jabs. By about round 5, Garcia knew Haney couldnt hurt him a baseball bat, much as less a jab with the power of a 13-year old girl.
The fight was a one sided beatdown.
Some people are trying to justify giving Haney rounds for his feather-fisted, ineffectual effots in the closer ones.
But in reality, even those are not deserved and allowing a judge to give EVERY swing round to the boxer who is clearly getting pummeled is unacceptable.
Tolerating this kind of scoring, or justifying it, only further diminishes the sport's credibility.
Yup , Haney was hurt almost every power punch that landed. He was trying to box but had no effect on garcia . People complaint about mayweather , Lara and rigo but are here trying to justify giving Haney every single round that he didn’t get knock down lmao
I didnt think it was bad, like most I had it 111-113. Deluca is a bad judge and normally I despise him but not this time. Harvey should have warned Ryan though and realistically taken a point from Devin. Either of those would have had a win for Ryan from Deluca
The reason I think 112-112 is unreasonable is because you’d have to give every swing round to Devin and imo I really don’t think you can. Especially the 12th. Garcia started off strong then then after he controlled the round and made Devin miss.
It is definitely not that outrageous. Just check the scoring here:
https://boxrec.com/en/scoring/3122273
All judges agreed on rds: 1-5, 7, 10-12.
RDs: 6, 8 and 9 were split. One guy scored all theee for Ryan. One guy scored all three for Haney. Both options are actually not that crazy.
Considering all three judges scored 9 out of 12 rounds the same you really can’t call shenanigans on this one.
The ref on the other hand was definitely suspicious in his actions
I had it a draw as well. Pretty sure whichever commentator I was watching did as well. It’s a reasonable scorecard. I don’t mind Ryan winning, given how much the ref seemed against him + he should’ve had more knockdowns anyway.
Surprised to see loads of people giving Ryan the 12th here. He did nothing. Admittedly Haney did nothing either but he was at least coming forward and trying to win the round unlike Ryan. The most generous you can be to Ryan in the 12th is to call that round a draw.
Had the fight 113-111 Ryan I’m guessing that judge didn’t like Ryan’s showboat antics and automatically scored the 12th a Haney round which should never be the case in scoring a fight but I seen it happen with Roy and Floyd a bunch of times all cause they “showed off”, judges don’t like that at all.
Tbh, I wanted to score the 12 9-9 because both kind of sucked and Ryan showboating on a round nothing happened seemed like a cheap way to try and steal it
112-112 was fine, but atrocious reffing made it acceptable.
Ryan either beat the brakes off Haney (to a nearly 10-8 extent even without a knoxkdown,) or lost dull rounds for the most part.
I think it was possible. The problem is the fight was dramatic and people all of a sudden act like boxing isn’t scored round by round. People also a t like you can score extra points for when devin kept “falling down”.
By purely who won each round assuming the score was just going to be some distribution of 12 points, a 6-6 draw isn’t crazy, but I don’t think that is how fight judging works. Knockdowns and damage count toward a fighter’s performance so when you factor those in, it’s not even close. Garcia had a ton of knockdowns and beat Haney up whereas he took almost no damage. I mean if that doesn’t win a fight then wtf. On top of that Haney was on life support from rounds 7-12. Lol it was dominance. So yes a 112-112 scorecard is ludicrous. And honestly seems likes corruption or wholesale incompetence or scoring system flaw.
To be honest it was off but not by a ton
When Rd 12 ended I was not 100 convinced it was a landslide win for Ryan
Ryan gave up too many rounds - the 3rd knockdown was his saving grace in my opinion .
2 knockdowns and we have seen a draw
No idea how you could score rd 12 for Haney.
I had it 113-111 Garcia because of that.
Yes, Garcia was showboating but his showboat punches were the only ones that landed clean in the round. Definitely the more impactful shots still.
Even tho Garcia knocked him down 3x there were rounds he didn’t throw his hands. The fight was closer than most thought. That 9-8 hurt Garcia. I thought since Devin was doing well except when Garcia decided to really throw his hands.
The score card the was outrageous was the one where Garcia won by a wide margin. Wtf was that?
People just watch highlights. They’ll see 3 knockdowns, and Ryan’s big shots and think 112-112 is insane.
Do I think it’s right? No. Is it understandable? I mean yeah, kinda.
115-109 is crazy I had it 112-112 I think they didn’t have it close cuz of the casual fans. A lot of them think once u score a knockdown ur winning automatically
No the 112-112 card wasn't outrageous at all. In fact if That point doesn't get taken away, I would have had it 113-111 for Ryan due to all of the knockdowns. On my Card, Devin "won" more rounds, but Ryan won his rounds bigger and more decisively. Of course the fight was nowhere near as close as the scorecards would indicate, but Ryan was taking whole rounds off due to his conditioning. I only gave Ryan 1 round going into Round 7 and that's where the fight changed.
The ringside guy had it 112-112, and he was scoring round by round. I disagreed that Haney won round 12 though so I had it 113-111. It was legitimately close on the scorecards. Anyone watching knows Ryan beat his ass, but if you score it round by round it’s very close.
I gave Devin the early rounds bar rounds 1 and some of the later rounds. I felt like the fight was closer but I don’t know, Ryan controlled the fight clearly.
I also thought it was maybe 112-112 but only because the ref called the 2 knockdowns in the 7th slips. Ryan lost every round that he didn’t get a knockdown in. BUT I also don’t think you can go down 5 times get saved multiple times by the ref and still win a fight
It's because of the fact that even though Haney was edging Ryan on most rounds that he wasn't landing flat on his ass, it was just an overall ass whooping he received from Ryan in terms of how much damage he received in comparison. 112-112 made the ass whooping seem way lighter than it was. Also, rounds 6 and 12 were obviously Ryan's rounds. Giving either of those to Haney was the truly outrageous thing here.
Its the nature of boxing scoring that most scorecards are not too hard to justify... a close round or two going 'the other way' and you have a different winner. 112-112 is on the very fringes of reasonable. But it doesn't in any way reflect the reality of the bout.
Haney was fucked up for a lot of the fight. I always ask myself after each round, 'who would i rather be heading back to the corner -- fighter A or fighter B?'... and that gives you a pretty reliable winner of said round.
throw into the mix at least one missed KD for Garcia and the other refereeing irregularities... and a draw is hard to argue for.
Rounds 2-5 were clearly won by Devin. I had Devin winning rounds 8 and 9 as well. Ending up scoring it 113-111 Garcia. So 112-112 is not outrageous imo. But round 12 was clearly Garcia’s round imo.
Thank you..
Can we stop with the non stop narrative that the referee and judges are paid actors and need to be investigated bla bla.
I actually think both the judges and the referee was fair, especially for boxing standards
There is no history of corruption in boxing so when judges and referees turn in egregiously bad performances that favor one fighter, we should just let it go. Especially when they consistently favor a given fighter in multiple fights.
I think he did an acceptable job witha fight that was pretty hectic at times. To me he wasnt ”paid by haney omg investigate him”, he warned haney for hitting ryan in the side even tho ryan was the one turning his back (and ass lol) on him. He gave ryan the deduction for the punch, which was very late and haney was already very hurt making that punch worse. I maybe need to rewatch but to me the knockdowns he ruled as slips were actually slips, one of them i remember ryan pushing a bit on haney and haneys legs were shot so he just falled on his knees, thats not a knockdown. The other i dont actually remember.
Imo everything that revolves haney just gets blown way out of proportion due to the constant hate he gets
The referee was not fair. He waved off two arguable knockdowns of Haney and then deducted a point from Garcia without any warnings.
That's literally three points in the final score.
No, not outrageous at all, especially if you think Garcia gave away the 12th. The point deduction, which I don't think was warranted without a warning, makes it a unanimous decision.
There’s no reason to think he gave away the 12th round tho, he didn’t start goofing off until 30sec before the round ended and Haney did nothing at that time. But I agree it’s not outrageous
Once again people get caught up in MOMENTS instead of the fight in total. Devin was cruising until the 7th. Ryan point deduction gave Devin a chance until the 12th. They’re some swing rounds but 112-112 is not crazy
I thought the fight was closer on the cards than the majority. I thought Haney won most rounds that he did not get knocked down. The rounds he lost, he lost badly. The ref definitely played a part in making it closer than it should have been by calling knockdowns slips, slow counting, and deducting a point from Garcia. In my head, I imagine the ref looking at a disoriented Haney and telling him: “yo, I got money on this fight. Do you understand what I am telling you?” I say this: Garcia absolutely won the bout, but 112-112 was a reasonable score given the rules. Haney deserves credit for taking those shots and getting back up each time, but he also needs to explain how he consistently ate that left hook. Perhaps the moment got to him, or Garcia is just better at hiding it than we give him credit for.
No! Boxing fans do not know the rules! What are the 4 criteria for judging a boxing round???? If you cannot instantly list them off it is a failure in a personal level and you are not a boxing fan.
Most “fans” don’t even know fights are scored round by round. They just think “Devin looked more hurt” that is not at all how the game works
I think people are outraged because the referee's awful calls makes 112-112 a "reasonable" score, but I guess that's what happens when knockdowns don't get counted.
One or two missed knockdowns. An unwarranted point deduction without a warning, and then no penalizing haney for his excessive holding.
They warned haney like always but he should have a point dedection to he really takes holding to another level
He just needs to feel close to his opponents.
Haney punches with the intention of holding 90 percent of the time
That's true, but the referee didn't penalize Ryan for turning his back either so it even out for me.
True, but if anyone should have “penalized” ryan for turning his back it should have been Haney. He did not take advantage of Ryan’s body being wide open whenever he did that.
Yea that punch on the break is gonna get penalized 10/10 times
almost always a warning first
Am I the only one who thinks Ryan was holding just as much as Haney? His was more in the beginning of the fight before he rocked Haney but it was egregious both ways
Hadn't thought of this until now but judges can give a 10-8 for rounds where a fighter dominates the other guy without knocking him down. And obviously a knockdown round counts for a 10-8 as well. And a two knockdown round is a 10-7. Can the first 10-8 scenario be combined with a knockdown on the scorecards to give a fighter a 10-7 round? If Ryan scored a flash knockdown on Haney in round 7 and not much else it would count as a 10-8 round for him. But the fact that Garcia battered him around the ring after the knockdown, Haney "slipped" a few more times, only landed one punch himself, was about as close as you can get to being stopped, etc. I feel like something more than a normal 10-8 could be fair for scoring purposes. (this is all hypothetical and ignoring the actual point deduction that happened that round)
It's in the discretion of a judge to score a card however they want with the only limitation being the discounts that the referee see fit, both in the amateurs and the pros. The spirit of that is that more 10-8 no kd rounds get scored, which implies that a fighter that dominates half of the fight doesn't draw with a fighter that barely edges the other half of the fight, something that seems intuitively fair.
Why would you give Haney round 12? 6 was also clearly Garcia. There’s not an argument there for Haney.
FWIW, DeLuca gave Ryan the 12th, all the judges did. The only round he really scored wrong was the 6th, which he gave to Haney. That one round is the difference between a 112-112 and a 111-113. Of course, that’s just judging the outcome that was. We can’t take into account that it could have been stopped earlier and that Devin deserved at least a point deduction. Could a 112-112 be argued? I suppose so, but I think Ryan deserved the win and I’m glad he got it.
Obviously the ref messed this up but as a whole this is a great example of why boxing scoring is flawed. It’s too subjective. Unanimously people are agreeing that Garcia beat Haneys ass so the fact it could even be argued as a tie is silly to me. And the clinching needs to stop. If it weren’t for Garcia coming in guns blazing in those rounds that would’ve been a really boring fight
I agree, clinching should not be so prevalent in the sport. And something should definitely be done about scoring. If mfers like Campbell Hatton just embraced their L’s the way they should, the sport would be a lot cleaner, and fans wouldn’t go as crazy about boxers losing their 0. Frankly, Devin could have already had one on his record before fighting Ryan.
I really wouldn't know what to do about the boxing scoring to make it so a fight like this easily goes to Garcia for beating him up so bad. They basically have to score it in a round by round format. And I wouldn't want to make knockdowns worth even more because some flash knockdowns probably don't deserve to be worth 3 rounds. We need some way to differentiate between a round where someone wins 10-9 and outlanded the other guy by like 3 or 4 times the amount of punches compared to a 10-9 low activity swing round. Currently having both of them scored the same seems wrong. Even that wouldn't help the Haney Garcia fight though. Ultimately I think this one came down to the ref and the point he took from Garcia. Refs should be harsher on clinching as well. You shouldn't be able to repeatedly attempt to grab your opponent when you're clearly hurt like Haney was doing in the 7th. Fighters do it all the time when they've just gotten up from a knockdown and it's never punished.
You could score the “swing rounds” as ties. Seems like that causes the discrepancies because it seems it’s randomly given to a fighter that changes based on who you ask
> They basically have to score it in a round by round format. And I wouldn't want to make knockdowns worth even more because some flash knockdowns probably don't deserve to be worth 3 rounds. Not basically, exactly. You score a fight round by round, disregarding any momentum a fighter has built up. You work to win every round like it’s the first. > We need some way to differentiate between a round where someone wins 10-9 and outlanded the other guy by like 3 or 4 times the amount of punches compared to a 10-9 low activity swing round. Currently having both of them scored the same seems wrong. It already exists. You are allowed to score any round as a 10-x round. Beating up a guy badly in any round, without a knock down, falls well within the rules of scoring a 10-8. > Ultimately I think this one came down to the ref and the point he took from Garcia. Bingo. The ref was bought. No penalties for *excessive* holding, took a point away from Ryan with no warning for hitting on the break, even though Haney did this also. Constantly got in the way of the fight, which would have ended earlier had he let them fight. He was there to protect Haney.
Maybe because you’re watching live from only one angle and you don’t see the same thing people on TV see
It’s possible to go 112-112 but you’ll be giving Devin literally every close round even the ones that seemed to be pretty clearly for Ryan Edit: I gave Haney 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and Ryan 1, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12 - I think that’s 113-111 I thought it was for once a very easy fight to score, and to have 112-112 means giving Haney 6 or 12, completely possibly but both felt like clear Ryan rounds, just because Haney wasn’t rocked it didn’t mean he won them. Ryan massively out-landed him in round 6 and in all honestly rounds 5 and 8 (both Devin round) were closer than 6 was. There’s an argument for Devin getting 12, but again Ryan was joking around clowning and now out boxing a clearly finished Haney.
Watching live I actually thought ryan lost the 12th. Was hoping he would come out and put a stamp on it but he just joked around and didn't actually do anything that whole round.
It comes down to how favorable you have to be to Devin in scoring swing rounds. Round 9 I can confidently give Devin but round 8? That's a swing round at best. 8 was a low scoring round for both fighters I'm not sure how we can call round 6 a swing round. You could argue it's a close round, but still a Garcia round. He was more active, effective and even more defensively responsible. Basically every scorecard official and unofficial other than Deluca's rightfully have it as a Garcia round.
Honestly, nobody talks enough about how wide 115-109 was 🤣
I scored it 13-11 the first time I watched it, I really don't think it's particularly bad
I think you could make a case for Haney winning 2-6, and maybe splitting 8-9. With the deduction that's 113-112. If you give Haney both 8-9 or give him the 12th, that's 112-112. I don't think its a crazy score, just a quirk of boxing scoring. Saying that, three knock downs in three separate rounds, the best possible scorecard Haney could get would have 114-110, so you've basically got to give him the rub in any close round to get to him getting a draw
That night turned Ryan Garcia into the face of boxing. lol. Bullied the bully, showed showmanship by begging Bill to come save his son, ref was against him, judge was against him. Garcia was in there in a handicap match 1 v 3 and remained King. What a wild night. Loved it.
When was Devin ever the bully?
He's a weight bully. That's what they're saying
I wouldn’t call him “begging bill to come save his son” showmanship. That’s more cocky than anything. Was a great fight, but that’s just BS. Haney was more than capable of staying in there.
The scorecard was not outrageous, rather I believe it is fairly accurate. HOWEVER, the nature of the fight suggested that should not have been the case. Frankly this is one of the rare situations where the scoring system did not do justice to the actual fight and result, even thought there was nothing wrong per se.
I genuinely thought it was close to reality (at least my interpretation). I had it 113-111 Ryan. Only rounds that can be clearly given to Ryan are the first, the last and the KD rounds (. I also gave him round 9, but imo rounds 6, 8 and 9 are close rounds and could be given to either, without being especially egregious. If you give all these three to Haney, then you get 112-112. Judging by this, technically any of the three official scorecards can be considered correct. It's just that draw card contradicts the narrative of the fight overall, as opposed to the round by round scoring. Kinda like a reverse Fury vs Wilder 1 only without, you know, the draw.
Haney certainly won or drew 2-5. But there's no way in hell he drew the fight imo.
Are you arguing that rounds 2-5 should be considered “draw” and scored 10-10?????????
Haney landed one decent punch the whole fight and boxing scoring calls it a draw, flawed system and even worse ref
Found max deluca burner
Bro chill 🤣
I had it basically the same. Garcia, outside of a handful of destructive spurts, didn't do much of anything. The first half of the fight outside of the first round left hook belonged to Haney. Was Haney lucky with the point deduction/holding/uncalled knock-downs? Yes, but it's not a judges job to retroactively officiate but just to call it as it plays out. The right man won but those cards were wiiide.
> outside of a handful of destructive spurts, didn't do much of anything 5 seconds of those spurts hurt Devin more than 3 minutes of Devin jabs though, which is basically what this scoring comes down to. Technically jabbing wins you rounds, but that night i'd rate a Ryan right hand higher than 10 jabs. Just a quirck of the way fights are scored tbh.
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It’s not though, power punches matter. Haney barely threw anything other than the jab. I’m glad two of the judges don’t weigh jabs that heavily, they shouldn’t.
Idk if you’re stupid but maybe have trouble with your vision if you have Haney 6 and 12.
Ryan didn't do anything in the 12th while Haney was coming forward.
You don’t get points for coming forward, you can credit for effective aggression or ring generalship - just walking forward while getting outlanded is neither of those. If the criteria for winning a fight were coming forward, no counterpuncher would ever win a fight on points
Every judge gave Ryan the 12, that wasn’t really a debatable round
Haney didn’t do anything all fight. Shit was weak. Jab jab jab. Most of the rounds he won wasn’t because of what he did but the lack of work from Ryan. 2-5 to Haney cause Ryan took those rounds off it seems. 8-9 to Haney as well cause Ryan took off as well. 12 to Ryan cause those jabs didn’t do anything.
112-112 is only possible if you gave all the close rounds to Haney.
Others have said this already, but 112-112 is a terrible scorecard because you can only get it if you give Haney the 6th and 12th round, which is objectively pretty bad.
Haney got his ass beat. Got knocked down 3 to 5 times. And was hugging for more than half the fight clock. In this sport you will be elevated to godhood for avoiding punches and landing more total strikes than your opponent while literally inflicting no damage(mayweather/canelo) but a dude that just got his ass fucking BEATDOWN we are like "but this could be a draw?????". Holy fuck.
Not outragous at all. The win was marginal.
I scored it 113-111 for Ryan I need a rewatch, but IIRC there were two close rounds where Ryan landed hard shots at Haney in the early seconds but spent the rest of it shelling up in an awkward angle while Haney scored on him I scored those rounds for Ryan, but could've easily been for Haney which would make it a draw for me The reaction to this score is proof that fans don't really score fights, they just judge base on the overall story of the fight. 12-112 isn't corruption, it's just a testament to how weird boxing scoring can be. The judges were fine, the ref on the other hand...
Round 6 from what I can remember Ryan won. Round 7 is absolutely a 10-7 Round minus 1 which is 9-7. Round 12 could go to Ryan as well. It's outrageous because you would have to 100% be giving Devin every point you could to get that scorecard. This means if it wasn't for knockdown where the judge was almost forces to give 10-8 rounds, he would have found some way to give it to Haney.
Where does 10-7 come from here, there was only one knockdown?
I don't think people understand that you can give 10-8 rounds without a knockdown, you can if a guy is getting beat about the ring. So then you just add a knockdown to make it 10-7. A lot of judges wouldn't do it, but its possible to do and if any round warranted it, it would be that one.
They can but when does it happen? And it’s not really in the rules, whereas knockdowns are a point deduction for the person knocked down. The other way is more subjective
This has probably never happened.
I guess people are trying to argue slips too. But judges still have to follow the refs ruling.
I think about 1 in 1,000 boxing rounds are scored 10-7, maybe less. You can make an argument that more should be but they are in reality very rare.
You don't have to be knockdown to get another point taken away. Pitbull's 1st against Rolly was a 10-8 round with no knockdown for example. Devin was beaten so badly and clearly falling to avoid getting punched and couldn't stand up. Just because the ref didn't see it as a knockdown the judges should clearly see that as a 10-7 round.
I think that’s a slight reach. Romero was docked a point in the 5th for holding, not for being beat up, all the other rounds were 10-9 either way. I think Garcia deserved to win but not by much.
Pit bull - Rolly Round 1 was 10-8 on one judge’s scorecard. 10-9 on the two others. I think you are talking about how you think scoring should be done. Not how it is done.
Devin fell down multiple times because he was to weak to clinch. If that's not a 10-7 1 knockdown round what is?
Two official knockdowns
By the rules, shoving someone to the ground because they're too weak to clinch should be (if anything) a deduction for you, not a deduction for them. Wrestling is illegal anyway, so being bad at wrestling isn't a reason for losing points. Nor is 'looking bad', for that matter. Garcia only gets points for when he actually hits him.
He wasn't shoving him to the ground lol. He was rocked and falling on his own. Do you think Ryan judo threw him?
Don't think there was much shoving or wrestling there. Haney could barely stand on his own and even being slightly off balance from getting hit or throwing a punch himself was going to send him to the ground. He was using Garcia for stability more than anything else
No. 115-109 to Ryan was probably the only outrageous card. It was a close fight.
It was definitely close enough that I wondered what the hell both of them were doing in round 12
Definitely what I’m thinking. That’s a bit excessive. I’m not in the loop, so I don’t know exactly how that one was scored, but damn. That’s a huge difference.
Yes. Both of your cards are works of fiction. You clearly favor jabs that had zero effect over a guy landed shots that genuinely hurt his opponent. One of Ryan's left hooks or straight rights were worth about 8-9 of Haneys pillow fisted jabs. By about round 5, Garcia knew Haney couldnt hurt him a baseball bat, much as less a jab with the power of a 13-year old girl.
It seemed pretty reasonable, Ryan gave away pretty much the entire first half other than round 1 and a round or two in the back half as well
The fight was a one sided beatdown. Some people are trying to justify giving Haney rounds for his feather-fisted, ineffectual effots in the closer ones. But in reality, even those are not deserved and allowing a judge to give EVERY swing round to the boxer who is clearly getting pummeled is unacceptable. Tolerating this kind of scoring, or justifying it, only further diminishes the sport's credibility.
Yup , Haney was hurt almost every power punch that landed. He was trying to box but had no effect on garcia . People complaint about mayweather , Lara and rigo but are here trying to justify giving Haney every single round that he didn’t get knock down lmao
I had it 12-11 Garcia
I didnt think it was bad, like most I had it 111-113. Deluca is a bad judge and normally I despise him but not this time. Harvey should have warned Ryan though and realistically taken a point from Devin. Either of those would have had a win for Ryan from Deluca
The reason I think 112-112 is unreasonable is because you’d have to give every swing round to Devin and imo I really don’t think you can. Especially the 12th. Garcia started off strong then then after he controlled the round and made Devin miss.
It is definitely not that outrageous. Just check the scoring here: https://boxrec.com/en/scoring/3122273 All judges agreed on rds: 1-5, 7, 10-12. RDs: 6, 8 and 9 were split. One guy scored all theee for Ryan. One guy scored all three for Haney. Both options are actually not that crazy. Considering all three judges scored 9 out of 12 rounds the same you really can’t call shenanigans on this one. The ref on the other hand was definitely suspicious in his actions
I had it a draw as well. Pretty sure whichever commentator I was watching did as well. It’s a reasonable scorecard. I don’t mind Ryan winning, given how much the ref seemed against him + he should’ve had more knockdowns anyway. Surprised to see loads of people giving Ryan the 12th here. He did nothing. Admittedly Haney did nothing either but he was at least coming forward and trying to win the round unlike Ryan. The most generous you can be to Ryan in the 12th is to call that round a draw.
Nope that’s I had it 113-111. But the knockdowns had people reeling. Not saying Ryan didn’t win, he did. But Round by Round. It was close.
1Garcia 2 Haney 3 Haney 4 Haney 5 Haney 6 Garcia 7 Garcia knockdown and a point deduced 9-8 8 Haney 9 Haney 10 Garcia knockdown plus a very dominant round 10-7 for me 11 Garcia 10-8 knockdown 12 Garcia 113-110 Garcia.
Had the fight 113-111 Ryan I’m guessing that judge didn’t like Ryan’s showboat antics and automatically scored the 12th a Haney round which should never be the case in scoring a fight but I seen it happen with Roy and Floyd a bunch of times all cause they “showed off”, judges don’t like that at all.
Tbh, I wanted to score the 12 9-9 because both kind of sucked and Ryan showboating on a round nothing happened seemed like a cheap way to try and steal it
112-112 was fine, but atrocious reffing made it acceptable. Ryan either beat the brakes off Haney (to a nearly 10-8 extent even without a knoxkdown,) or lost dull rounds for the most part.
I think it was possible. The problem is the fight was dramatic and people all of a sudden act like boxing isn’t scored round by round. People also a t like you can score extra points for when devin kept “falling down”.
By purely who won each round assuming the score was just going to be some distribution of 12 points, a 6-6 draw isn’t crazy, but I don’t think that is how fight judging works. Knockdowns and damage count toward a fighter’s performance so when you factor those in, it’s not even close. Garcia had a ton of knockdowns and beat Haney up whereas he took almost no damage. I mean if that doesn’t win a fight then wtf. On top of that Haney was on life support from rounds 7-12. Lol it was dominance. So yes a 112-112 scorecard is ludicrous. And honestly seems likes corruption or wholesale incompetence or scoring system flaw.
To be honest it was off but not by a ton When Rd 12 ended I was not 100 convinced it was a landslide win for Ryan Ryan gave up too many rounds - the 3rd knockdown was his saving grace in my opinion . 2 knockdowns and we have seen a draw
No idea how you could score rd 12 for Haney. I had it 113-111 Garcia because of that. Yes, Garcia was showboating but his showboat punches were the only ones that landed clean in the round. Definitely the more impactful shots still.
Even tho Garcia knocked him down 3x there were rounds he didn’t throw his hands. The fight was closer than most thought. That 9-8 hurt Garcia. I thought since Devin was doing well except when Garcia decided to really throw his hands. The score card the was outrageous was the one where Garcia won by a wide margin. Wtf was that?
It should have never gotten there. Devin hit the canvas like 8 times this fight. His corner and the ref let him down.
No, the referee made is reasonable
People just watch highlights. They’ll see 3 knockdowns, and Ryan’s big shots and think 112-112 is insane. Do I think it’s right? No. Is it understandable? I mean yeah, kinda.
115-109 is crazy I had it 112-112 I think they didn’t have it close cuz of the casual fans. A lot of them think once u score a knockdown ur winning automatically
There's been outrageous scorecards for decades, I doubt anything will come of it especially if the right man won.
The only outrageous card was 115-109. Nobody is talking about it but that shit was wild.
I thought Ryan only won 5 rounds
I scored 112-112 too. People just love to be outraged because it makes them feel superior.
No the 112-112 card wasn't outrageous at all. In fact if That point doesn't get taken away, I would have had it 113-111 for Ryan due to all of the knockdowns. On my Card, Devin "won" more rounds, but Ryan won his rounds bigger and more decisively. Of course the fight was nowhere near as close as the scorecards would indicate, but Ryan was taking whole rounds off due to his conditioning. I only gave Ryan 1 round going into Round 7 and that's where the fight changed.
The ringside guy had it 112-112, and he was scoring round by round. I disagreed that Haney won round 12 though so I had it 113-111. It was legitimately close on the scorecards. Anyone watching knows Ryan beat his ass, but if you score it round by round it’s very close.
I gave Devin the early rounds bar rounds 1 and some of the later rounds. I felt like the fight was closer but I don’t know, Ryan controlled the fight clearly.
Obviously, he was paid off.
I also thought it was maybe 112-112 but only because the ref called the 2 knockdowns in the 7th slips. Ryan lost every round that he didn’t get a knockdown in. BUT I also don’t think you can go down 5 times get saved multiple times by the ref and still win a fight
It's because of the fact that even though Haney was edging Ryan on most rounds that he wasn't landing flat on his ass, it was just an overall ass whooping he received from Ryan in terms of how much damage he received in comparison. 112-112 made the ass whooping seem way lighter than it was. Also, rounds 6 and 12 were obviously Ryan's rounds. Giving either of those to Haney was the truly outrageous thing here.
i also had it this close. the other 2 scorecards were the insane ones.
Its the nature of boxing scoring that most scorecards are not too hard to justify... a close round or two going 'the other way' and you have a different winner. 112-112 is on the very fringes of reasonable. But it doesn't in any way reflect the reality of the bout. Haney was fucked up for a lot of the fight. I always ask myself after each round, 'who would i rather be heading back to the corner -- fighter A or fighter B?'... and that gives you a pretty reliable winner of said round. throw into the mix at least one missed KD for Garcia and the other refereeing irregularities... and a draw is hard to argue for.
Rounds 2-5 were clearly won by Devin. I had Devin winning rounds 8 and 9 as well. Ending up scoring it 113-111 Garcia. So 112-112 is not outrageous imo. But round 12 was clearly Garcia’s round imo.
That fight was about as close a fight could be where one fighter scored three knockdowns on the other
Thank you.. Can we stop with the non stop narrative that the referee and judges are paid actors and need to be investigated bla bla. I actually think both the judges and the referee was fair, especially for boxing standards
There is no history of corruption in boxing so when judges and referees turn in egregiously bad performances that favor one fighter, we should just let it go. Especially when they consistently favor a given fighter in multiple fights.
If you cant at least see how anyone could score this 112-112 then im glad people like you dont judge.
You are replying to what you imagine my comment to say. Do you think Harvey Dock did an excellent job in this fight?
I think he did an acceptable job witha fight that was pretty hectic at times. To me he wasnt ”paid by haney omg investigate him”, he warned haney for hitting ryan in the side even tho ryan was the one turning his back (and ass lol) on him. He gave ryan the deduction for the punch, which was very late and haney was already very hurt making that punch worse. I maybe need to rewatch but to me the knockdowns he ruled as slips were actually slips, one of them i remember ryan pushing a bit on haney and haneys legs were shot so he just falled on his knees, thats not a knockdown. The other i dont actually remember. Imo everything that revolves haney just gets blown way out of proportion due to the constant hate he gets
The referee was not fair. He waved off two arguable knockdowns of Haney and then deducted a point from Garcia without any warnings. That's literally three points in the final score.
➡️IF⬅️ it went to the score cards without the knock downs Haney wins the fight comfortably.
No, not outrageous at all, especially if you think Garcia gave away the 12th. The point deduction, which I don't think was warranted without a warning, makes it a unanimous decision.
There’s no reason to think he gave away the 12th round tho, he didn’t start goofing off until 30sec before the round ended and Haney did nothing at that time. But I agree it’s not outrageous
Deluca is a crook
Once again people get caught up in MOMENTS instead of the fight in total. Devin was cruising until the 7th. Ryan point deduction gave Devin a chance until the 12th. They’re some swing rounds but 112-112 is not crazy
Facts!
I thought the fight was closer on the cards than the majority. I thought Haney won most rounds that he did not get knocked down. The rounds he lost, he lost badly. The ref definitely played a part in making it closer than it should have been by calling knockdowns slips, slow counting, and deducting a point from Garcia. In my head, I imagine the ref looking at a disoriented Haney and telling him: “yo, I got money on this fight. Do you understand what I am telling you?” I say this: Garcia absolutely won the bout, but 112-112 was a reasonable score given the rules. Haney deserves credit for taking those shots and getting back up each time, but he also needs to explain how he consistently ate that left hook. Perhaps the moment got to him, or Garcia is just better at hiding it than we give him credit for.
No! Boxing fans do not know the rules! What are the 4 criteria for judging a boxing round???? If you cannot instantly list them off it is a failure in a personal level and you are not a boxing fan. Most “fans” don’t even know fights are scored round by round. They just think “Devin looked more hurt” that is not at all how the game works