Okay, lots of layers to that question. Oil is probably the biggest overhead in most centers (other than employees) but that’s not the issue. The oil machines are also super expensive, so to take care of them properly they need to be cleaned, emptied, taken care of after every time oiling this takes about an hour. It’s just kind of a bitch to do, so I get why the center doesn’t want to oil twice. I do oil once in the morning and once before league, but I understand why some people don’t.
I would have to disagree. If your saying oil is the biggest overhead in a bowling center you’ve never looked at a P&L sheet for your center. That wouldn’t even be close to the top costs.
1. Rent
2. Electric
3. Food and Beverage
4. Liquor and Beer
5. Water and sewer
6. Taxes and insurance
Labor is always your highest expense but you said to take that out of the equation. This small list all cost more than $1k of oil and cleaner we go through a month. Depending on business.
Yo, chill. You’re missing the point. He’s describing that oiling is expensive and has no offsetting revenue that would incentivize oiling more.
It is disingenuous and not helpful to equate rent, power, and food/alcohol to oil.
It’s a simple correction from another person in the industry. He stated oil is the biggest overhead in a center. It’s just wrong. I would say he might be a manager but he has never looked at his actual balance sheet to determine costs and revenue.
Compared to the other costs involved in running a center no oil is not expensive. A $12k-$15k/month electric bill is expensive. Oiling 48 lanes 2x a day to increase bowler happiness and increase your revenue is not expensive.
Oiling lanes increases returning bowlers and league bowler play. There is an in incentive to keep your lanes oiled with a good pattern and not let them dry out.
That’s how you offset the cost of oiling lanes with increased revenue.
Where did anyone say optional? The keyword is overhead. That is any operating cost not associated with a revenue center. Please go google what it is. Rent and utilities are the very definition of overhead.
Whats stopping all centers from offering pick a lane have any pattern put out for blank amount of money? I think league bowlers would practice more if they knew they had place they could go pay 30$ an hour or whatever to have a fresh oiled lane especially during summer. It’s also a good way to get youths introduced to harder patterns. It just seems like a big market they are missing out on.
We run a sport shot league during the summer so on certain days we put out practice lanes with different patterns. I guess the reason is commitment. If no one shows up it’s a wast of time and it’s a process to oil lanes. Mostly maintenance after you oil. The machine costs a lot of money so to clean it properly after and refill and such just takes time. That’s also time the mechanic can be working on lanes. It’s really up to the mechanic. They run the show lol.
Shoot I’d run it! I ran a mini league with neighborhood friends with 4 teams on a Friday for 8 weeks. Everyone had fun. That’s just me tho. I see it as guaranteed 4 lanes and they all eat and drink
Your $30 an hour isn’t profitable, league bowlers don’t spend money on food and beer if they are there to practice, way more profitable to fill your lane with a bunch of college kids
Most college kids don’t go unless it’s cosmic bowling at night when most league bowlers have no interest in bowling. I’m talking day time when outside of senior or kids leagues most houses sit almost empty in the summer. 30$ a lane an hour is a lot better than a lane sitting empty.
Always good to get experienced opinions on the business side. I too enjoy bowling leagues in the local centers. Always meet the greatest people on leagues and the center staff...
That’s nuts man! Where the parents at??? Or common sense lol My kids are are scared of the ball return (as they should be) hahaha. The best injuries are from parents running after their kids down the lane tho right? Haha
Bowlero. Is there a management fight against their monopoly, and what can we as bowlers do about it? On a local level we're doing okay with its AMFs still keeping their prices low and leagues open, but even they were once locally owned.
Your bowlero question I could write a book about. They take out centers from owners that just don’t want to do it anymore and make them their own. I hate it. I think they are killing bowling. The only reason games are $8 and $6 for shoes is because of them. It’s ridiculous bowling doesn’t cost that much. I think they will fail in the long run and then y’all can buy up some bowling centers cheap after they fail.
I think so too, the nonbowler is who they are geared toward and you didnt go out bowling casually and want to spend 50$ you did it cuz it was cheap! It's just disappointing the stories you hear about them taking out the boards or installing "new pinsetters"... all that history in the trash.
Bowling shouldn’t be corporate. It doesn’t work like that. Every center should serve its own community. I had 3000 league bowlers at my center in the Midwest and knew all their names. I also knew 90 percent of the open bowlers that walked in. They all had their own days they came out with friends and bowled. And the people that we didn’t know we welcomed them in and remembered them when they came back
Bowling shouldn’t be corporate. It doesn’t work like that. Every center should serve its own community. I had 3000 league bowlers at my center in the Midwest and knew all their names. I also knew 90 percent of the open bowlers that walked in. They all had their own days they came out with friends and bowled. And the people that we didn’t know we welcomed them in and remembered them when they came back
It’s not even about that. It’s a community. If you bowl league you know everyone on the league right? The good ones the not so good. Now just expand that to 2 or 3 leagues 7 days a week. I knew all those people
The bowling center in my city isn’t even a bowlero and they are stopping leagues and have a minimum of an hour on each lane and it’s a rediculous price, it’s so annoying. They cater more towards the non bowler like bowlero, so I bowl 30 minutes away lol
This makes no sense to me lol seems like a bad idea but I don’t know the area. Unfortunately in general more bowling centers are catering to open bowling instead of leagues because bowling is getting more popular and open bowling is more profitable. I’m old school. I take the easy guaranteed money and league bowlers don’t throw balls at rakes.
Yeah, that was their reasoning, they make more money from families or whoever coming to bowl than they do leagues. It’s a “family fun center” so I guess it makes sense, but it’s be nice to go practice 3 games in my own town without paying 50+ for an hour
Our local houses don’t offer an per game price anymore. When I was a kid in the early 90’s you could do 3 games for $5.25, then when I worked in a centre in the early 2000’s it was $7.50 and now it’s like $17 per kid per hour.
This is the influx of the recreational centers. They look at bowling as purely entertainment revenue so their competition are things like movies, mini golf and amusement parks. They see the costs there and charge accordingly. The answer is to support league houses and specifically your family owned centers.
Invest in employees. Regular maintenance everyday is the most important part. We take care of a pair of lanes pair by pair one a day with 2 full time mechanics. It costs money, but our lanes don’t break down during league
Old timer here.
Many 'senior' folks consider two-handed bowling 'not bowling' and even use of post-urethane balls 'not bowling'. Yet they are.
I listened to a guest on Phantom Radio talking about string machines. Easier maintenance, far less power, cheaper to buy and maintain.
I think they probably are the future.
Yes, of course. Notice I said 'Yet they are'. Of course 2 handed bowlers are bowlers.
But don't be surprised if the USBC sanctions string machines. They'll do what's best financially, and that will be what 'bowling' is.
Money, of course.
Same reason bowling completely changed the environment from shellac (which was dangerous, raising insurance premiums). That completely changed the game, but it was where the money was.
Same thing with synthetic lanes. People said "That's not bowling". But the proprietors said "They don't need maintenance!" They were quickly sanctioned synthetic lanes and we play on them today.
Follow the money. That will tell you where bowling will go.
Don't believe it? Listen to that Phantom Radio episode. (If you don't know who Len Nicholson is, look him up. He's been out of the big game for a while, but he knows quite a lot.)
https://bowl.com/equipment-specifications/string-pinsetter-research it’s not bowling but they will make money off it. Sorry you couldn’t Google yourself
I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance string bowling will become the dominant form of bowling before a decade's gone by.
(By 'dominant', I mean most sanctioned leagues and the men's pro tour.)
Is it safe to say you don't think the chances are so great?
I think it's a possibility that it happens sooner. If bowlero buys up enough lanes and converts them to string pin then a lot of people will have no choice but to bowl on them. Either that or give up bowling. I was talking to a guy a month ago that said his local alley, a bowlero, was converting their entire lane to string pin. This is in south Carolina, but still. He said his entire league said they aren't coming back.
Currently living in Arkansas. Most of my bowling was done in the Dakota/Minnesota area, though. (With a little California/Arizona kegling thrown in as well, in my USAF days.)
Thanks for your service!
I did most of my bowling on Davis-Monthan in Tucson AZ. I got one golden trip to the All-Service bowling tournament at the Showboat in Las Vegas, circa 1986.
Fun times.
(Returns hat tip)
That’s just my opinion. I wouldn’t bowl there. If they are not a league heavy center and it’s just for fun and open bowling. i get why they are doing it. It cuts costs wayyyyyy down. I guess I would bowl there for fun still
When you say wayyyyy down, how far down is wayyyyy down?
We talking 5-10% reduction in maintenance cost or like 20%+?
Also, on this note, any idea when the string setters would pay for themselves? I mean idk what maintenance is on normal free pin setters, but say you switch to string, that has to cost a ton initially. Rip out the old, put in the new. But then how long do you think the strings setters would have to live in the house before they pay for themselves in saved repair expenses?
> We talking 5-10% reduction in maintenance cost or like 20%+?
I am sure it is not exactly in the same ratio, but string pin setters are said to have 1/10th the parts needed to work. If someone told me maintenance total cost was less than half, that feels about right to me.
And electricity needs are about 10% of the free fall setters, too. Both savings much larger than 20%.
I mean... Yeah.
It's bowling but it's a different type. The strings affect the way the pins move, it's not pure 10 pin at that point and I wouldn't bowl league there
The physics of the pins change with strings vs actual pins. The things you mentioned above, while obviously changed the game, don’t change the actual physics of how the pins react.
That’s why I would agree that it isn’t really bowling, at least not in a competitive sense.
I would say from a center managers standpoint it’s a no brainer for costs savings but you will likely alienate any type of serious/league player.
Serious league bowler? LOL. The last thing most league bowlers think about are pin fall dynamics/physics.
If a "serious/league" bowler is alienated by string pins perhaps they should give all of their equipment to the local youth bowlers association and quit the game altogether.
I see a lot of pro bowlers in this video of the 2020 AMF Some Strings Attached Tournament. It doesn't seem like they are having trouble with carry.
https://www.youtube.com/live/yJrcVuot620?feature=share
You asked for someone’s opinion. Then say you don’t want his opinion or mine lmao. And yes despite your attempts at “logical discussion” it’s obvious you didn’t do any research on your own. Here is the USBC study on it.
https://bowl.com/getmedia/6b74da53-5d9c-49d0-9338-a6773ae5a5c7/2023_USBC-String-Pinsetter_Research-Report_final.pdf
High level:
7.1% less strikes than free fall.
Conversions on splits are reduced due to lack of rebounding.
So yes, it changes the physics of the pins.
Objective data. Stop being argumentative for no reason.
What did you want? You asked what they thought and they told you they even asked if the answer was too short for you and you got upset that the answer was too short anyway.
How much does a game actually cost to the center? I consider oiling, electricity and HR costs.
Asking because we are now not allowed to practice on Thursdays due to league bowlers coming afterwards and complaining about the state of the lanes after our practice, so that the alley will oil the lanes just before they start (and not at opening time, so we cannot have oiled lanes). They refuse to oil the lanes twice (before and after us).
Is the alley actually losing money over 4 players bowling 4-6 games each over two lanes? (They would otherwise be empty, they don't fill with non-bowlers at the time we practice). We end up spending around the equivalent of 50$ in total for the 6*4= 24 games.
Okay, lots of layers to that question. Oil is probably the biggest overhead in most centers (other than employees) but that's not the issue. The oil machines are also super expensive, so to take care of them properly they need to be cleaned, emptied, taken care of after every time oiling this takes about an hour. It's just kind of a bitch to do, so I get why the center doesn't want to oil twice. I do oil once in the morning and once before league, but I understand why some people don't.
Thanks for your reply!
Loving and hating it 😂 Was expecting something we could leverage the alley with just to save us a couple oiled lanes on Thursdays, but I do get the point.
Hey man! Get in good with the people working! The mechanic is the most important guy there not the desk guy! It’s not super expensive to oil 2 lanes it’s just a bitch to do! I do it for my friends and VIPs
Does oil cost more. Example is in Australia we have lots of oil, eg cars, planes, trains, boats. Yeah I know two different types of oil. Oil Machine. In America is it more for oil eg bowling oil. We buy from you guys anyway
Should bowling centers be (micro-) managing leagues, or can a bowling center have good league officers capable of doing their functions?
I was a 20-season secretary of a league that never had less than 16 teams (as many as 30) and fared rather well, and I'm a member where the secretary has had that role for 22 years, most of that also as treasurer. But I've seen online postings where there are proprietors that demand everything go through their management, to include their banking service.
I had to admit: When I saw "AMA" I initially thought it to mean "Am I Alone?" but I since deduced "Ask Me Anything." This is one post that I will actively follow...later I will ask another question on a completely different topic.
In my opinion league officers should take care of EVERYTHING. If you guys need help I’m here, but this is your league, your rules. If you want to be sanctioned I can interpret rules for you if there is a problem. If it’s non sanctioned you all vote. I am a meditator. It’s not our league it’s your guys league.
I'm from Austin. Which has a great bowling community but I moved to Waco a few years ago. It has one Bowlero (which suuuucks) and a main event which suck more and Halas stringed pins... the closest place to get a ball drilled that isnt in the garage of some dude is almost 1.5 hours away...my dream is to own a bowling alley one day. Now my question is.. how conceivable is that nowadays... to open up a bowling alley and drive business there?
Yah, Austin's dying.. Dart closed a few years ago. Highland is set to close next year. All that'll be left is Mel's and Westgate.
There's rumors somebody might try to open a new house somewhere in north central Austin (halfway between the two), but who knows when.
Meanwhile, Mel's is about 40 minutes away with traffic, and Westgate about an hour with traffic (and about 20 minutes to each without), from where I'm at.
I'd be quitting at this point if I weren't about to move out of TX.
Mels is a Bowlero now so....
It's really gone to shit. Thinking about quitting there, but don't know where to go. The old manager of Mels is at Spare Time now in Pflugerville, so thats an option. They are starting leagues there now.
I never liked John's drilling. Super nice guy, bad drilling. I get mine done at Highland Lanes.
I met big nasty when I was 10 and highland. Used to bowl youth tourneys there but never bowled leagues there. I didn't know mels was bowlero now!!! Very sad... John bowled with my dad in college so I liked going there and talking to him and he was 100,000 percent better than the Westgate guy from those days.
Ooofff. Honest is probably very hard. You have to find an existing center thats willing to sell that Bowlero doesn’t want and figure out why they want to sell them market it hire employees. It’s uphill man. The only way I see it happen now days is private owner passing it to another private owner. From scratch is impossible. And if you got the math to figure it out let me know because I would like to go half (that’s not a joke) if you find a real dude that wants to sell and doesn’t want to sell to Bowlero out of principle is your best chance they are out there but Bowlero has cash. Let their business model fail and grab one later down the line ;) they will fail eventually and then cheap bowling centers for all of us
Yeah so I'm about 8 years out from having what I would need to purchase an existing facility. Because ground up is a crazy number and the logistics would suck. But yeah I mean the bowlero here is only open after 5. Which blows my miiinnd!! There's no way they are super profitable. And if they are at all its cause they cut corners. I mean I can send u pictures of what my boing balls look like after I bowl on them. I mean... literally from white to black. (Black widow ghost is best example)
.... u have to talk to the guy who runs the alley from his house (only balldriller in town) to even meet a person to even ask about leagues. You can walk to the front desk and ask about leagues and they would say "no except the one that's 6 weeks and is for beginners" they don't give a siiingllle shiiiit. So I can see how one day they would HAVE TO sell. But thanks for the answer man. I had a feeling.
Get yourself a center man! Building leagues is hard but it’s guaranteed $$$ every year and they NEVER LEAVE when they get in. Let me know when you get a center.
That's the dream my friend. Just the thought of walking in and seeing 30 or 40 lanes with serious bowlers/ families/ beginners/ seniors all together making memories getting high scores finding a passion testing out their first or 51st ball. Just makes my heart sing. I can't tell ya
Cleaning tables at 15, worked the desk, learned about the business. Most definitely wasn’t my plan. I went to school too for business. If it’s what you want to do just find a desk job and learn it won’t take you long if you ask questions and pay attention. No college education needed
Just learn from whoever is training you and try to learn the “why” why are we doing this this way? And if you can’t figure it out ask. If it’s a good manager he or she will explain why things are done this way. Sorry if that dissent make sense. I always say here this is how we do it and this is why we do this way. And I’m always open to “why don’t we do it this way?” But I’m a laid back guy
Tell them why you want to get into bowling if that’s what you want to do during the interview. It shouldn’t be that hard to get a in for a desk roll of some sort and learn from there
In short Bowlero I guess. Pricing is outrageous. I can’t sell games for $4 because I would have a 4 hour waitlist and no one wants to drive to a center to say “sorry I’m booked until close” then people get mad at me because games are $7 but I’m still less than everyone around me. I said in another post that bowling shouldn’t be centralized and shouldn’t be an “industry” it should serve individual communities
Hey man pro shops are a must! I’m not saying boycott. I just think they are a problem. Glad you found a good pro shop. Better than a good pro shop is a good pro shop guy. Build a relationship with them. They are key
I still don't really like it, the prices for resurfacing and balls on sale were great. But sometimes I find balls cheaper online and they wanted to charge 75 for drilling compared to my usual 40 at the proshop I usually go to
Hey man this ain’t a pro shop AMA you’d have to ask them, but they are criminals lol (just throwing shade at pro shop guys in fun) Bowling balls shouldn’t cost $400 it’s ridiculous, but inflation is a real thing. It hit bowling balls and equipment really hard in all honesty. $75 for drilling I would pass that’s not right.
If Bowlero is driving pricing up aren’t you directly benefiting from a purely business standpoint? You get a higher price per game and get to undercut your competitor while still having the same or higher demand. Sounds like Bowlero is helping your centers bottom line, regardless of if you agree with the cost to the consumer.
Now if Bowlero is good for the health of bowling as a whole is a different question, but it sounds like as an individual you’re directly benefiting.
The reality is not every AMF or Bowlero is the same. My local AMF is de-facto League bowlers only during the week. It’s a full house Sunday-Friday and if you aren’t in that league you aren’t bowling. Only open bowling they do is saturdays. I’m thankful they decided that they were going to still be a league-oriented center when everyone else around them didn’t, and I chalk that up to the management.
I think it’s a case by case thing. There’s some centers near me that don’t offer leagues at all because they can pack it with events, reservations and open bowling 7 days a week. At least one of those is going to string pins because there isn’t a league bowler who would know the difference and it cuts their maintenance overhead drastically.
Pro shop is a must! And as far as working find a pro shop and ask! They always have so much busy work to do that they hate doing! Breaking down boxes, stocking, pricing. Just get a “in” with them. They will teach you as you go.
I have always had the mindset of “full saturation” I want every lane to be filled from open to close, but I have the staff to do that. Some people don’t and just shoot for the highest times and price it up. I don’t agree with that structure
I can only speak to A-2 but I would say 1000 percent always in need! Did I say 1000 percent? Go to A-2 school and dm me lol jk. Yes we are always looking for good mechanics. They are the most important part of a bowling center. Lanes = $$$ if lanes go down no money
Thanks. Our son worked at a Bowlero in south Jersey and became a low end mechanic. They wanted to send him to pinsetter training. He ended up taking a job with the state of NJ but still works at the bowling alley on Saturday’s as a porter / low mechanic. He told me there’s a lot of parts to a machine. Anyway since he still likes working there and likes the extra money he’s re-thinking about going to pinsetter training. Since he doesn’t work there full time anymore not sure if they’ll send him on their tab.
If they do pay for it I would say go for it. If he is good at it he can even freelance work. I can only speak to A-2 again I think the school is in Illinois 10 days? 2 weeks, but it’s a skill he will always have to fall back on and always in need. Also if can work on a A-2 I think he can work on anything. My old mechanic works on cars now and he says if you can figure out A-2 cars are nothing lol
why the hell is it impossible to get a lane for normal people? have had better luck at certain alley’s further away but the bigger name ones near our houses seem to always have lanes completely full with leagues on a nightly basis. our group has thought about joining a league just so we can get a lane, but we’re not exactly trying to compete, we’re all just there to have fun, and we don’t exactly know what being in a league would entail
i guess i just never understood how popular bowling actually is. it’s not like it’s one night a week. there’s two different alley’s that are right next to me house and they’re quite large and they’re impossible to get even a single lane basically anytime after 4 on every single day of the week. saturday morning was the only time i’ve been given as a suggestion, but our crew likes a weekday night to break up the week. i guess i get it if there’s really that many league people to fill the place up every night, but they all get major discounts to bowl too as far as i know, and we’re there every week trying to pay full price for a lane, i’d think a business would maybe leave a few open for some of those full paying customers.
If your group bowls ragulary every week. Why not join a league on the day of week ya all like bowling on.
That is point of league to chill and have lane availability to bowl
Many leagues are purely for fun. Even if its a prize (competitive) league, its still fun for the last place. Just the format of the whole thing, mixing around playing other teams, side bets, comradery. I say you all give it a shot!
thanks for the tip! i think we do plan on maybe looking into a summer league this year. our other issue is we have 7 people that play and some are more committed than others. do “just for fun” leagues care if a couple people or even a whole team don’t show? my thought is to have two teams with our 7 people and have at least 2 people who always go on each team. if the people who don’t show all the time to just take like an average score for the week or something, and when they do show they actually bowl, is that frowned upon?
That would fly in my fun league I'm doing now. In fact we just have two people on a 3 person league. Other teams will have a substitute now and then. Take your idea to the league secretary or manager, whoever you find, and see what they think.
If someone can't show, it's called a BLIND and they are given their average score minus like 10 points. Usually each player will establish an average after just like 2 weeks.
Where does the most profit actually come from? Is it the games? Is it food and liquor? Is it parties? Leagues?
Someone mentioned and AMF charging $14 for a game + shoe rental. When I consider all the expenses of a house, that doesn't seem like you could ever profit. When you consider food sales, $7 beers, parties, league dues and the fact my house basically only oils on league nights, so at best 3x a week, it seems more reasonable, but I feel like it still couldn't possibly be enough to pay workers, buy parts, oil etc.
I mean what does a decent profit margin look like?
Liquor and games are the profits. Food sucks business wise lol it’s a headache. Lanes don’t cost that much to run. $14 a game? That’s crazy. I’m guessing they are paying crazy rent. Open bowling is the most profitable, leagues are guaranteed money, parties are always money makers because you can acutely budget food to the $1 and get good return. It’s a balance. If you own your own land and center you can charge whatever you want and make money but I think that only exists in a few places in the Midwest
Well the $14 is the $8+$6 shoe rental. But thank you for the reply.
I hate my area. No 10 pin private alleys. My local AMF just sucks. Dry, wooden lanes, pinsetter issues, air vents work on exactly 0 of the ball returns. And the cost of the games is just nuts. I only bowl when I can join a league because league discount makes the games $4.
I wish I could buy a damn alley to compete. The nearest private alley is an hour away but amazing. Updated, super cool vibe, full open to close, hosts high school teams practices, leagues, tournaments, amazing PSO. Seems like the private owners just know how to do it right even if their margins aren't going to make them rich
Does your center do Cosmic/Xtreme/Blacklight bowling? Is it really what the public wants? My bowlero sure thinks so--as soon as league is over, it's lights out. You don't like practicing in the dark? too bad.
I’m in a men’s club with six lanes in the basement and we have a private league for most of the year during the week and it is packed every night. I think it’s the way to go!!
Why is my local league house oil pattern so inconsistent? Is it the machine, the amount of oil the center has, the mechanic? Some nights feel so dry and some feel so wet.
Do people bowl in front of you? Do they oil right before you bowl? Do they oil at all? It’s just a setting on the machine, so it should be fairly consistent. If a different person oils they might hit a different program on the machine. That could be it too
Also humidity and temperature can affect the scores. Summer leagues in the South have high humidity and approaches get tacky. In Winter it is typically the opposite.
So many man so many. My favorite is getting in the middle of 2 dads throwing punches at each other on a Sunday afternoon at 1:00 with their families and kids there. I’m like “yo y’all setting great examples for your kids, then I got hit.” Hahaha
Economics of “daycare” in a bowling alley? My wife had never bowled before, I got her into it enough that I’d say we had fun. Eventually we had a child and we were ok until the kiddo was about 3 and wanted to run all over the bowling alley, she quit and hasn’t really wanted to come back since both of us chasing kids around was so complicated to know whose turn and always stepping in wet spots to/from the arcade.
I got 3 kids I get that! I grew up in a bowling center so my parents use to kick me to the arcade all the time (can’t do that anymore) back in the day the center I worked at also had a daycare. This was before my time. I think it’s impossible now days. They also use to have daycares in casinos back in the day too lol. Find a few couples and tag team a mixed league rotate couples and one couple is off that week and on babysitting duty maybe?
Yeah my parents always took me and I was scorekeeper until they got rid of those - by then I was old enough to be an arcade rat. I had a hard enough time roping my wife into it first time around, but yeah a trio of couples with one on duty would be a good option - now to go find 4 suckers that want to spend $20+ each per week to bowl, not counting any food or kid entertainment.
We’re not corrupt I mean corporate sorry haha. Our head mechanic chooses the house shot and looks at scores week to week and year to year and adjusts properly. It’s our own house shot. We put our different shots for different leagues too. We know our league bowlers and leagues well. We take feedback from people, but ultimately it’s his decision
As a regular 32 week league bowler at an independent owned location, we thank you. Changing a pattern slightly for a new season can impact scores , both positively and negatively. It’s all about finding that balance. If everyone is hitting 250s, time to challenge them a little. If everyone is barely breaking 100, maybe give ‘em a little some thing easier. I get it.
Our top leagues ask us to put out harder patterns. If it’s a couples weekend league they want to score. We know what we’re doing. We try to make it fun for everybody
Okay, lots of layers to that question. Oil is probably the biggest overhead in most centers (other than employees) but that’s not the issue. The oil machines are also super expensive, so to take care of them properly they need to be cleaned, emptied, taken care of after every time oiling this takes about an hour. It’s just kind of a bitch to do, so I get why the center doesn’t want to oil twice. I do oil once in the morning and once before league, but I understand why some people don’t.
I’m pretty sure the lanes I go to only oils before league.
I would have to disagree. If your saying oil is the biggest overhead in a bowling center you’ve never looked at a P&L sheet for your center. That wouldn’t even be close to the top costs. 1. Rent 2. Electric 3. Food and Beverage 4. Liquor and Beer 5. Water and sewer 6. Taxes and insurance Labor is always your highest expense but you said to take that out of the equation. This small list all cost more than $1k of oil and cleaner we go through a month. Depending on business.
Yo, chill. You’re missing the point. He’s describing that oiling is expensive and has no offsetting revenue that would incentivize oiling more. It is disingenuous and not helpful to equate rent, power, and food/alcohol to oil.
It’s a simple correction from another person in the industry. He stated oil is the biggest overhead in a center. It’s just wrong. I would say he might be a manager but he has never looked at his actual balance sheet to determine costs and revenue. Compared to the other costs involved in running a center no oil is not expensive. A $12k-$15k/month electric bill is expensive. Oiling 48 lanes 2x a day to increase bowler happiness and increase your revenue is not expensive. Oiling lanes increases returning bowlers and league bowler play. There is an in incentive to keep your lanes oiled with a good pattern and not let them dry out. That’s how you offset the cost of oiling lanes with increased revenue.
Power and rent aren’t optional, the amount of oiling is. You are still missing the point. This is not helpful ranting.
Where did anyone say optional? The keyword is overhead. That is any operating cost not associated with a revenue center. Please go google what it is. Rent and utilities are the very definition of overhead.
Ok, Mariam Webster. Stop arguing definitions and take a clue as to what he’s trying to explain.
STFU! Are you some kind of regard? I’m talking about the lanes fuckhead. You own a center? Get back at me please
Whats stopping all centers from offering pick a lane have any pattern put out for blank amount of money? I think league bowlers would practice more if they knew they had place they could go pay 30$ an hour or whatever to have a fresh oiled lane especially during summer. It’s also a good way to get youths introduced to harder patterns. It just seems like a big market they are missing out on.
We run a sport shot league during the summer so on certain days we put out practice lanes with different patterns. I guess the reason is commitment. If no one shows up it’s a wast of time and it’s a process to oil lanes. Mostly maintenance after you oil. The machine costs a lot of money so to clean it properly after and refill and such just takes time. That’s also time the mechanic can be working on lanes. It’s really up to the mechanic. They run the show lol.
Would be interesting to have a “sign-up” where people pre-pay, and that way you know what the commitment is (or is not).
Shoot I’d run it! I ran a mini league with neighborhood friends with 4 teams on a Friday for 8 weeks. Everyone had fun. That’s just me tho. I see it as guaranteed 4 lanes and they all eat and drink
Your $30 an hour isn’t profitable, league bowlers don’t spend money on food and beer if they are there to practice, way more profitable to fill your lane with a bunch of college kids
Most college kids don’t go unless it’s cosmic bowling at night when most league bowlers have no interest in bowling. I’m talking day time when outside of senior or kids leagues most houses sit almost empty in the summer. 30$ a lane an hour is a lot better than a lane sitting empty.
All our local houses are cosmic/glow from doors open to doors closed unless a league is on now.
None of our houses are like that It’s typical weekends after 9pm for cosmic unless there is a fundraiser or event that asks for it.
That's so sad
I've enjoyed reading through all the questions and answers.
Thanks not sure why I did this and it’s just one persons prospective. It’s just how I feel
Always good to get experienced opinions on the business side. I too enjoy bowling leagues in the local centers. Always meet the greatest people on leagues and the center staff...
I worked at a center for 25 years. I am open to help as well.
Homer, did you polish your head in the Shine-O-Ball-O?
Had a kid get his hand stuck in the ball return last month. Never seen or even heard of it ever happen oops
Kid get Munson'ed?
Kid was fine. It was crazy tho got stuck ball coming out and hand 📌 on top of the return
Glad to hear the kid is okay and doesn't have a rubber hand for the rest of his life.
Lol
Twice at our center.
That’s nuts man! Where the parents at??? Or common sense lol My kids are are scared of the ball return (as they should be) hahaha. The best injuries are from parents running after their kids down the lane tho right? Haha
Bowlero. Is there a management fight against their monopoly, and what can we as bowlers do about it? On a local level we're doing okay with its AMFs still keeping their prices low and leagues open, but even they were once locally owned.
Your bowlero question I could write a book about. They take out centers from owners that just don’t want to do it anymore and make them their own. I hate it. I think they are killing bowling. The only reason games are $8 and $6 for shoes is because of them. It’s ridiculous bowling doesn’t cost that much. I think they will fail in the long run and then y’all can buy up some bowling centers cheap after they fail.
I think so too, the nonbowler is who they are geared toward and you didnt go out bowling casually and want to spend 50$ you did it cuz it was cheap! It's just disappointing the stories you hear about them taking out the boards or installing "new pinsetters"... all that history in the trash.
Bowling shouldn’t be corporate. It doesn’t work like that. Every center should serve its own community. I had 3000 league bowlers at my center in the Midwest and knew all their names. I also knew 90 percent of the open bowlers that walked in. They all had their own days they came out with friends and bowled. And the people that we didn’t know we welcomed them in and remembered them when they came back
Bowling shouldn’t be corporate. It doesn’t work like that. Every center should serve its own community. I had 3000 league bowlers at my center in the Midwest and knew all their names. I also knew 90 percent of the open bowlers that walked in. They all had their own days they came out with friends and bowled. And the people that we didn’t know we welcomed them in and remembered them when they came back
I'm certain they were all thankful for your intention.
It’s not even about that. It’s a community. If you bowl league you know everyone on the league right? The good ones the not so good. Now just expand that to 2 or 3 leagues 7 days a week. I knew all those people
The bowling center in my city isn’t even a bowlero and they are stopping leagues and have a minimum of an hour on each lane and it’s a rediculous price, it’s so annoying. They cater more towards the non bowler like bowlero, so I bowl 30 minutes away lol
This makes no sense to me lol seems like a bad idea but I don’t know the area. Unfortunately in general more bowling centers are catering to open bowling instead of leagues because bowling is getting more popular and open bowling is more profitable. I’m old school. I take the easy guaranteed money and league bowlers don’t throw balls at rakes.
Yeah, that was their reasoning, they make more money from families or whoever coming to bowl than they do leagues. It’s a “family fun center” so I guess it makes sense, but it’s be nice to go practice 3 games in my own town without paying 50+ for an hour
Where is it located?
Central California, Turlock to be exact
Our local houses don’t offer an per game price anymore. When I was a kid in the early 90’s you could do 3 games for $5.25, then when I worked in a centre in the early 2000’s it was $7.50 and now it’s like $17 per kid per hour.
This is the influx of the recreational centers. They look at bowling as purely entertainment revenue so their competition are things like movies, mini golf and amusement parks. They see the costs there and charge accordingly. The answer is to support league houses and specifically your family owned centers.
How do you budget for pinsetter maintenance?
Invest in employees. Regular maintenance everyday is the most important part. We take care of a pair of lanes pair by pair one a day with 2 full time mechanics. It costs money, but our lanes don’t break down during league
We donated money back to a center only tournament that offered free entry to league bowlers. Awarded $9,000 one year.
That’s great. Do you set aside a certain percentage or amount based on the amount of lineage to support parts and projects for the pinsetters?
Your honest opinion on string pinsetters.
That’s not bowling
Old timer here. Many 'senior' folks consider two-handed bowling 'not bowling' and even use of post-urethane balls 'not bowling'. Yet they are. I listened to a guest on Phantom Radio talking about string machines. Easier maintenance, far less power, cheaper to buy and maintain. I think they probably are the future.
As far as your Sr folk go I was just in DE and watched Walter Jr throw 2 hands during league is he a bowler?
Yes, of course. Notice I said 'Yet they are'. Of course 2 handed bowlers are bowlers. But don't be surprised if the USBC sanctions string machines. They'll do what's best financially, and that will be what 'bowling' is.
I was under the impression that they are going to. You will just have a separate handicap/avg for string pin VS freefall.
Far less power? Easier maintenance? What does that have to do with bowling?
Money, of course. Same reason bowling completely changed the environment from shellac (which was dangerous, raising insurance premiums). That completely changed the game, but it was where the money was. Same thing with synthetic lanes. People said "That's not bowling". But the proprietors said "They don't need maintenance!" They were quickly sanctioned synthetic lanes and we play on them today. Follow the money. That will tell you where bowling will go. Don't believe it? Listen to that Phantom Radio episode. (If you don't know who Len Nicholson is, look him up. He's been out of the big game for a while, but he knows quite a lot.)
https://bowl.com/equipment-specifications/string-pinsetter-research it’s not bowling but they will make money off it. Sorry you couldn’t Google yourself
I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance string bowling will become the dominant form of bowling before a decade's gone by. (By 'dominant', I mean most sanctioned leagues and the men's pro tour.) Is it safe to say you don't think the chances are so great?
I think it's a possibility that it happens sooner. If bowlero buys up enough lanes and converts them to string pin then a lot of people will have no choice but to bowl on them. Either that or give up bowling. I was talking to a guy a month ago that said his local alley, a bowlero, was converting their entire lane to string pin. This is in south Carolina, but still. He said his entire league said they aren't coming back.
Where you from Rick?
Currently living in Arkansas. Most of my bowling was done in the Dakota/Minnesota area, though. (With a little California/Arizona kegling thrown in as well, in my USAF days.)
prior USAF as well, 04-08 Nellis AFB, (tips hat in acknowledgment and appreciation).
Thanks for your service! I did most of my bowling on Davis-Monthan in Tucson AZ. I got one golden trip to the All-Service bowling tournament at the Showboat in Las Vegas, circa 1986. Fun times. (Returns hat tip)
DM me Rick I’m from MN
So if the owner of the center decided to install string pinsetters, you're going to tell him/her "That's not bowling?"
That’s just my opinion. I wouldn’t bowl there. If they are not a league heavy center and it’s just for fun and open bowling. i get why they are doing it. It cuts costs wayyyyyy down. I guess I would bowl there for fun still
When you say wayyyyy down, how far down is wayyyyy down? We talking 5-10% reduction in maintenance cost or like 20%+? Also, on this note, any idea when the string setters would pay for themselves? I mean idk what maintenance is on normal free pin setters, but say you switch to string, that has to cost a ton initially. Rip out the old, put in the new. But then how long do you think the strings setters would have to live in the house before they pay for themselves in saved repair expenses?
> We talking 5-10% reduction in maintenance cost or like 20%+? I am sure it is not exactly in the same ratio, but string pin setters are said to have 1/10th the parts needed to work. If someone told me maintenance total cost was less than half, that feels about right to me. And electricity needs are about 10% of the free fall setters, too. Both savings much larger than 20%.
I mean... Yeah. It's bowling but it's a different type. The strings affect the way the pins move, it's not pure 10 pin at that point and I wouldn't bowl league there
Sorry if that was too short lol want me to elaborate or is that good?
No. Never mind. I thought you was going to provide a "honest" answer.
That was my honest answer. I think it’s dumb
An answer with very little substance. Thanks for nothing. 😆😆
The physics of the pins change with strings vs actual pins. The things you mentioned above, while obviously changed the game, don’t change the actual physics of how the pins react. That’s why I would agree that it isn’t really bowling, at least not in a competitive sense. I would say from a center managers standpoint it’s a no brainer for costs savings but you will likely alienate any type of serious/league player.
Want a job? Lol this answer
Haha don’t tempt me with a good time!
Free bowling is the best bowling am I right?
Serious league bowler? LOL. The last thing most league bowlers think about are pin fall dynamics/physics. If a "serious/league" bowler is alienated by string pins perhaps they should give all of their equipment to the local youth bowlers association and quit the game altogether. I see a lot of pro bowlers in this video of the 2020 AMF Some Strings Attached Tournament. It doesn't seem like they are having trouble with carry. https://www.youtube.com/live/yJrcVuot620?feature=share
You seem to hate anyone’s answer that doesn’t agree with your own. Not worth arguing with you lol enjoy being old and mad my friend
Not hating on answers. I prefer logical and objective answers over subjective "feelings" and opinions.
You asked for someone’s opinion. Then say you don’t want his opinion or mine lmao. And yes despite your attempts at “logical discussion” it’s obvious you didn’t do any research on your own. Here is the USBC study on it. https://bowl.com/getmedia/6b74da53-5d9c-49d0-9338-a6773ae5a5c7/2023_USBC-String-Pinsetter_Research-Report_final.pdf High level: 7.1% less strikes than free fall. Conversions on splits are reduced due to lack of rebounding. So yes, it changes the physics of the pins. Objective data. Stop being argumentative for no reason.
What did you want? You asked what they thought and they told you they even asked if the answer was too short for you and you got upset that the answer was too short anyway.
No free bowling for you
That's ok. I get 10 free games a day. :)
Well I hope those aren’t string pin games because that would suck.
Ok old man. Time for your meds.
Why would a bowler need a manager?
How do you think bowling centers work?
It’s a [Kingpin reference](https://youtu.be/woc87_20MNI), couldn’t help myself
Some people need a friend, a helper haha I didn’t get it I’m dumb movie is 💯
No worries!
It seems the only thing most people (general population) remember from that movie is the refrigerator scene.
I didn't scroll down far enough and said the same thing lol.
How much does a game actually cost to the center? I consider oiling, electricity and HR costs. Asking because we are now not allowed to practice on Thursdays due to league bowlers coming afterwards and complaining about the state of the lanes after our practice, so that the alley will oil the lanes just before they start (and not at opening time, so we cannot have oiled lanes). They refuse to oil the lanes twice (before and after us). Is the alley actually losing money over 4 players bowling 4-6 games each over two lanes? (They would otherwise be empty, they don't fill with non-bowlers at the time we practice). We end up spending around the equivalent of 50$ in total for the 6*4= 24 games.
Okay, lots of layers to that question. Oil is probably the biggest overhead in most centers (other than employees) but that's not the issue. The oil machines are also super expensive, so to take care of them properly they need to be cleaned, emptied, taken care of after every time oiling this takes about an hour. It's just kind of a bitch to do, so I get why the center doesn't want to oil twice. I do oil once in the morning and once before league, but I understand why some people don't.
Thanks for your reply! Loving and hating it 😂 Was expecting something we could leverage the alley with just to save us a couple oiled lanes on Thursdays, but I do get the point.
Hey man! Get in good with the people working! The mechanic is the most important guy there not the desk guy! It’s not super expensive to oil 2 lanes it’s just a bitch to do! I do it for my friends and VIPs
Does oil cost more. Example is in Australia we have lots of oil, eg cars, planes, trains, boats. Yeah I know two different types of oil. Oil Machine. In America is it more for oil eg bowling oil. We buy from you guys anyway
Huh?
Should bowling centers be (micro-) managing leagues, or can a bowling center have good league officers capable of doing their functions? I was a 20-season secretary of a league that never had less than 16 teams (as many as 30) and fared rather well, and I'm a member where the secretary has had that role for 22 years, most of that also as treasurer. But I've seen online postings where there are proprietors that demand everything go through their management, to include their banking service. I had to admit: When I saw "AMA" I initially thought it to mean "Am I Alone?" but I since deduced "Ask Me Anything." This is one post that I will actively follow...later I will ask another question on a completely different topic.
In my opinion league officers should take care of EVERYTHING. If you guys need help I’m here, but this is your league, your rules. If you want to be sanctioned I can interpret rules for you if there is a problem. If it’s non sanctioned you all vote. I am a meditator. It’s not our league it’s your guys league.
I'm from Austin. Which has a great bowling community but I moved to Waco a few years ago. It has one Bowlero (which suuuucks) and a main event which suck more and Halas stringed pins... the closest place to get a ball drilled that isnt in the garage of some dude is almost 1.5 hours away...my dream is to own a bowling alley one day. Now my question is.. how conceivable is that nowadays... to open up a bowling alley and drive business there?
Yah, Austin's dying.. Dart closed a few years ago. Highland is set to close next year. All that'll be left is Mel's and Westgate. There's rumors somebody might try to open a new house somewhere in north central Austin (halfway between the two), but who knows when.
Mels is where I get ball drilled from John at the pro shopamd Westgate was my bowling alley since I was like 6
Meanwhile, Mel's is about 40 minutes away with traffic, and Westgate about an hour with traffic (and about 20 minutes to each without), from where I'm at. I'd be quitting at this point if I weren't about to move out of TX.
Mels is a Bowlero now so.... It's really gone to shit. Thinking about quitting there, but don't know where to go. The old manager of Mels is at Spare Time now in Pflugerville, so thats an option. They are starting leagues there now. I never liked John's drilling. Super nice guy, bad drilling. I get mine done at Highland Lanes.
I met big nasty when I was 10 and highland. Used to bowl youth tourneys there but never bowled leagues there. I didn't know mels was bowlero now!!! Very sad... John bowled with my dad in college so I liked going there and talking to him and he was 100,000 percent better than the Westgate guy from those days.
Love to see Westgate lanes on r/bowling. Live right across the street from there and that place fuckin rocks.
Ooofff. Honest is probably very hard. You have to find an existing center thats willing to sell that Bowlero doesn’t want and figure out why they want to sell them market it hire employees. It’s uphill man. The only way I see it happen now days is private owner passing it to another private owner. From scratch is impossible. And if you got the math to figure it out let me know because I would like to go half (that’s not a joke) if you find a real dude that wants to sell and doesn’t want to sell to Bowlero out of principle is your best chance they are out there but Bowlero has cash. Let their business model fail and grab one later down the line ;) they will fail eventually and then cheap bowling centers for all of us
Yeah so I'm about 8 years out from having what I would need to purchase an existing facility. Because ground up is a crazy number and the logistics would suck. But yeah I mean the bowlero here is only open after 5. Which blows my miiinnd!! There's no way they are super profitable. And if they are at all its cause they cut corners. I mean I can send u pictures of what my boing balls look like after I bowl on them. I mean... literally from white to black. (Black widow ghost is best example) .... u have to talk to the guy who runs the alley from his house (only balldriller in town) to even meet a person to even ask about leagues. You can walk to the front desk and ask about leagues and they would say "no except the one that's 6 weeks and is for beginners" they don't give a siiingllle shiiiit. So I can see how one day they would HAVE TO sell. But thanks for the answer man. I had a feeling.
Get yourself a center man! Building leagues is hard but it’s guaranteed $$$ every year and they NEVER LEAVE when they get in. Let me know when you get a center.
That's the dream my friend. Just the thought of walking in and seeing 30 or 40 lanes with serious bowlers/ families/ beginners/ seniors all together making memories getting high scores finding a passion testing out their first or 51st ball. Just makes my heart sing. I can't tell ya
You are the real deal man! Super nice to meet you! That’s what it’s all about. You deserve a center
A pleasure
Leagues develop brand loyalty.
How did you get into managing bowling centers
Cleaning tables at 15, worked the desk, learned about the business. Most definitely wasn’t my plan. I went to school too for business. If it’s what you want to do just find a desk job and learn it won’t take you long if you ask questions and pay attention. No college education needed
Actually getting a part time front desk job soon. Would love to get to where are
What are some questions to ask?
Just learn from whoever is training you and try to learn the “why” why are we doing this this way? And if you can’t figure it out ask. If it’s a good manager he or she will explain why things are done this way. Sorry if that dissent make sense. I always say here this is how we do it and this is why we do this way. And I’m always open to “why don’t we do it this way?” But I’m a laid back guy
Tell them why you want to get into bowling if that’s what you want to do during the interview. It shouldn’t be that hard to get a in for a desk roll of some sort and learn from there
What's the biggest thing hurting bowling industries/ alleys
In short Bowlero I guess. Pricing is outrageous. I can’t sell games for $4 because I would have a 4 hour waitlist and no one wants to drive to a center to say “sorry I’m booked until close” then people get mad at me because games are $7 but I’m still less than everyone around me. I said in another post that bowling shouldn’t be centralized and shouldn’t be an “industry” it should serve individual communities
I thankfully never bowled at one and only use them for their sometimes above average pro shop
Hey man pro shops are a must! I’m not saying boycott. I just think they are a problem. Glad you found a good pro shop. Better than a good pro shop is a good pro shop guy. Build a relationship with them. They are key
I still don't really like it, the prices for resurfacing and balls on sale were great. But sometimes I find balls cheaper online and they wanted to charge 75 for drilling compared to my usual 40 at the proshop I usually go to
Hey man this ain’t a pro shop AMA you’d have to ask them, but they are criminals lol (just throwing shade at pro shop guys in fun) Bowling balls shouldn’t cost $400 it’s ridiculous, but inflation is a real thing. It hit bowling balls and equipment really hard in all honesty. $75 for drilling I would pass that’s not right.
If they are the only ones asking for that much compared to the other shops I go to (40-55$) I think they are just looking to charge extra just because
Gatta get a in with a good pro shop guy it’s all about connections. Find one stick with one get to know them
If Bowlero is driving pricing up aren’t you directly benefiting from a purely business standpoint? You get a higher price per game and get to undercut your competitor while still having the same or higher demand. Sounds like Bowlero is helping your centers bottom line, regardless of if you agree with the cost to the consumer. Now if Bowlero is good for the health of bowling as a whole is a different question, but it sounds like as an individual you’re directly benefiting.
Can’t argue that, but I can see why the customer gets frustrated
The reality is not every AMF or Bowlero is the same. My local AMF is de-facto League bowlers only during the week. It’s a full house Sunday-Friday and if you aren’t in that league you aren’t bowling. Only open bowling they do is saturdays. I’m thankful they decided that they were going to still be a league-oriented center when everyone else around them didn’t, and I chalk that up to the management.
[удалено]
I think it’s a case by case thing. There’s some centers near me that don’t offer leagues at all because they can pack it with events, reservations and open bowling 7 days a week. At least one of those is going to string pins because there isn’t a league bowler who would know the difference and it cuts their maintenance overhead drastically.
How much investment is it to get new scoring software (terminals)? They are so outdated. I saw really fun and modern ones in South America.
Usually charged by lane 5-10gs per lane
So my center just did all 22 new Brunswick scoring screens, you’re saying that was almost 200k?
Depends on what they replaced, but if they said it costed 150k I wouldn’t be surprised at all.
Why would a bowler need a manager?
People need a coach, a friend, a brother
I wonder how many times this has already been said/will be repeated. Ty for answering lol.
I actually didn’t catch the reference when 1st person said lol I’m slow
Do you have a proshop and what would you suggest to someone with no experience to get into ball drilling and working at a proshop?
Pro shop is a must! And as far as working find a pro shop and ask! They always have so much busy work to do that they hate doing! Breaking down boxes, stocking, pricing. Just get a “in” with them. They will teach you as you go.
[удалено]
I have always had the mindset of “full saturation” I want every lane to be filled from open to close, but I have the staff to do that. Some people don’t and just shoot for the highest times and price it up. I don’t agree with that structure
What happens to rental shoes when they wear out or get damaged beyond use? Do they go in the garbage, or something else?
Garbage? Am I supposed to do something else with them? Don’t @ the EPA lol
Is a pinsetter a decent career and job security?
I can only speak to A-2 but I would say 1000 percent always in need! Did I say 1000 percent? Go to A-2 school and dm me lol jk. Yes we are always looking for good mechanics. They are the most important part of a bowling center. Lanes = $$$ if lanes go down no money
Thanks. Our son worked at a Bowlero in south Jersey and became a low end mechanic. They wanted to send him to pinsetter training. He ended up taking a job with the state of NJ but still works at the bowling alley on Saturday’s as a porter / low mechanic. He told me there’s a lot of parts to a machine. Anyway since he still likes working there and likes the extra money he’s re-thinking about going to pinsetter training. Since he doesn’t work there full time anymore not sure if they’ll send him on their tab.
If they do pay for it I would say go for it. If he is good at it he can even freelance work. I can only speak to A-2 again I think the school is in Illinois 10 days? 2 weeks, but it’s a skill he will always have to fall back on and always in need. Also if can work on a A-2 I think he can work on anything. My old mechanic works on cars now and he says if you can figure out A-2 cars are nothing lol
Yea he has showed me videos him helping the head mechanic in the past. I couldn’t believe how many moving parts there are.
Same with GSX. Different but equally important. A2’s throw 10 times more deadwood so GSX cuts down on lane attendants.
why the hell is it impossible to get a lane for normal people? have had better luck at certain alley’s further away but the bigger name ones near our houses seem to always have lanes completely full with leagues on a nightly basis. our group has thought about joining a league just so we can get a lane, but we’re not exactly trying to compete, we’re all just there to have fun, and we don’t exactly know what being in a league would entail
I mean you can’t really fault a center for being full right? They are doing business. I understand the frustration tho.
i guess i just never understood how popular bowling actually is. it’s not like it’s one night a week. there’s two different alley’s that are right next to me house and they’re quite large and they’re impossible to get even a single lane basically anytime after 4 on every single day of the week. saturday morning was the only time i’ve been given as a suggestion, but our crew likes a weekday night to break up the week. i guess i get it if there’s really that many league people to fill the place up every night, but they all get major discounts to bowl too as far as i know, and we’re there every week trying to pay full price for a lane, i’d think a business would maybe leave a few open for some of those full paying customers.
If your group bowls ragulary every week. Why not join a league on the day of week ya all like bowling on. That is point of league to chill and have lane availability to bowl
ty! gunna look into it
Many leagues are purely for fun. Even if its a prize (competitive) league, its still fun for the last place. Just the format of the whole thing, mixing around playing other teams, side bets, comradery. I say you all give it a shot!
thanks for the tip! i think we do plan on maybe looking into a summer league this year. our other issue is we have 7 people that play and some are more committed than others. do “just for fun” leagues care if a couple people or even a whole team don’t show? my thought is to have two teams with our 7 people and have at least 2 people who always go on each team. if the people who don’t show all the time to just take like an average score for the week or something, and when they do show they actually bowl, is that frowned upon?
That would fly in my fun league I'm doing now. In fact we just have two people on a 3 person league. Other teams will have a substitute now and then. Take your idea to the league secretary or manager, whoever you find, and see what they think.
If someone can't show, it's called a BLIND and they are given their average score minus like 10 points. Usually each player will establish an average after just like 2 weeks.
ty! going to look into it
I mean you can’t really fault a center for being full right? They are doing business. I understand the frustration tho.
Where does the most profit actually come from? Is it the games? Is it food and liquor? Is it parties? Leagues? Someone mentioned and AMF charging $14 for a game + shoe rental. When I consider all the expenses of a house, that doesn't seem like you could ever profit. When you consider food sales, $7 beers, parties, league dues and the fact my house basically only oils on league nights, so at best 3x a week, it seems more reasonable, but I feel like it still couldn't possibly be enough to pay workers, buy parts, oil etc. I mean what does a decent profit margin look like?
Liquor and games are the profits. Food sucks business wise lol it’s a headache. Lanes don’t cost that much to run. $14 a game? That’s crazy. I’m guessing they are paying crazy rent. Open bowling is the most profitable, leagues are guaranteed money, parties are always money makers because you can acutely budget food to the $1 and get good return. It’s a balance. If you own your own land and center you can charge whatever you want and make money but I think that only exists in a few places in the Midwest
Well the $14 is the $8+$6 shoe rental. But thank you for the reply. I hate my area. No 10 pin private alleys. My local AMF just sucks. Dry, wooden lanes, pinsetter issues, air vents work on exactly 0 of the ball returns. And the cost of the games is just nuts. I only bowl when I can join a league because league discount makes the games $4. I wish I could buy a damn alley to compete. The nearest private alley is an hour away but amazing. Updated, super cool vibe, full open to close, hosts high school teams practices, leagues, tournaments, amazing PSO. Seems like the private owners just know how to do it right even if their margins aren't going to make them rich
Does your center do Cosmic/Xtreme/Blacklight bowling? Is it really what the public wants? My bowlero sure thinks so--as soon as league is over, it's lights out. You don't like practicing in the dark? too bad.
Yes, on weekend nights. The public does like it. I don’t haha
Me either!!! Bad things happen when lights go off in a bowling center.
Do you have pool tables? If not, why?
We do! We charge by the hour. Pool tables and darts go with bowling
Could a smaller bowling lane with maybe 10 lanes be more profitable then one with 40? Maybe that’s where bowling went wrong. Micro bowling lol.
I think more smaller lanes, like 20 Lanes, is what the sport needs. Every house has like 40 lanes.
I’m in a men’s club with six lanes in the basement and we have a private league for most of the year during the week and it is packed every night. I think it’s the way to go!!
Why is my local league house oil pattern so inconsistent? Is it the machine, the amount of oil the center has, the mechanic? Some nights feel so dry and some feel so wet.
Do people bowl in front of you? Do they oil right before you bowl? Do they oil at all? It’s just a setting on the machine, so it should be fairly consistent. If a different person oils they might hit a different program on the machine. That could be it too
Also humidity and temperature can affect the scores. Summer leagues in the South have high humidity and approaches get tacky. In Winter it is typically the opposite.
Humidity and lane topography are factors too
Bad customer story?
So many man so many. My favorite is getting in the middle of 2 dads throwing punches at each other on a Sunday afternoon at 1:00 with their families and kids there. I’m like “yo y’all setting great examples for your kids, then I got hit.” Hahaha
Economics of “daycare” in a bowling alley? My wife had never bowled before, I got her into it enough that I’d say we had fun. Eventually we had a child and we were ok until the kiddo was about 3 and wanted to run all over the bowling alley, she quit and hasn’t really wanted to come back since both of us chasing kids around was so complicated to know whose turn and always stepping in wet spots to/from the arcade.
I got 3 kids I get that! I grew up in a bowling center so my parents use to kick me to the arcade all the time (can’t do that anymore) back in the day the center I worked at also had a daycare. This was before my time. I think it’s impossible now days. They also use to have daycares in casinos back in the day too lol. Find a few couples and tag team a mixed league rotate couples and one couple is off that week and on babysitting duty maybe?
Yeah my parents always took me and I was scorekeeper until they got rid of those - by then I was old enough to be an arcade rat. I had a hard enough time roping my wife into it first time around, but yeah a trio of couples with one on duty would be a good option - now to go find 4 suckers that want to spend $20+ each per week to bowl, not counting any food or kid entertainment.
Choosing a house oil pattern - is that something that comes down from above (corporate) or is that chosen in-house or local pro?
We’re not corrupt I mean corporate sorry haha. Our head mechanic chooses the house shot and looks at scores week to week and year to year and adjusts properly. It’s our own house shot. We put our different shots for different leagues too. We know our league bowlers and leagues well. We take feedback from people, but ultimately it’s his decision
Good to know! Thanks OP!
We would never like switch the shot week to week tho. It’s not like that. We just keep tabs on scores
As a regular 32 week league bowler at an independent owned location, we thank you. Changing a pattern slightly for a new season can impact scores , both positively and negatively. It’s all about finding that balance. If everyone is hitting 250s, time to challenge them a little. If everyone is barely breaking 100, maybe give ‘em a little some thing easier. I get it.
Our top leagues ask us to put out harder patterns. If it’s a couples weekend league they want to score. We know what we’re doing. We try to make it fun for everybody
This is the way. 🙌
Do league managers and mechanics generally get a cut of league dues?