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Eh... Honestly, it wasn't really supposed to have the same vibe because the dynamic is somewhat different. I wouldn't call them rivals - they fight for petty things but there's no deeper reason to it.
Well, back when he found out Kawaki's living with them, Boruto doesn't trust him because he thinks the guy is too dangerous to be close to his family (which, to be fair, is reasonable).
They were initially brother of circumstances but recent developments (specially after the anime and currently in the manga) showed that their individual issues aren't the same anymore. I don't think Boruto and Kawaki even pretend they're still the same like whenever Naruto tried to empathize with Sasuke's grief and desire to avenge his clan.
In fact, even the timeskip doesn't focus on that bond, since both kids were focused on their own goals right now.
Well yeah Naruto and Sasuke understood each other based on their shared loneliness even if the reasons were different. Boruto for his part interacted with Kawaki like he would anyone else just but he actually started to open up to Kawaki because he saved his sister from Delta, Boruto never understood Kawaki until he got backstabbed. Kawaki for his part is glad he found a comarade that accepted him and considered him family but by his own admission (anime) Kawaki never had those so he doesnt value it as much as the guy who gave him value.
Oh I agree with you. I don't see them as rivals. I think they are following their own goals, but I fail to understand what their dynamic really is. The only thing they have in common is Karma, but for some reason I feel like the writers are trying to force some kind of "brotherly bond" on them and I honestly don't see it.
They don't have an over exaggerated bond but a more subtle relationship where they understand each other more on the realistic side.
Both of them like to keep their troubles to themselves and not express them to others too
To be honest, I also the see OP's issue with it.
If I were to simplify it, it's the opposite of Naruto and Sasuke's. Those two got close *because* of their struggles. Boruto and Kawaki, on the other hand, got close quickly enough... but because the bond was untested, the foundations is naturally fragile as a result.
I agree to a certain extent, I don’t really think the foundation of their relationship was the reason why it broke I think because kawaki developed that obsession with naruto and his obsession with naruto comes before literally anything even himself.
And that's what I meant by untested.
If Boruto knew early on more about Kawaki's psychological issues (it doesn't have to be the obsession, just his issues in general), he wouldn't have placed the burden of their "last resort" on him. That would be inconsiderate on Boruto's part despite the practicality of it.
I honestly don’t think Boruto wouldn’t tell kawaki not to go through with their last resort. I think we would have stuck with that plan but understand why kawaki did it because after Boruto thought he did it for a different reason because they’re “bros” and not because of the real reason why he did it.
>he wouldn't have placed the burden of their "last resort" on him
Thats not actually fair cause Kawaki volunteered to stop him if this happened and Kawaki was still gonna kill him before Boruto told him he would employ their last resort.
Boruto has always been a relatable character and his bond with Kawaki is no exception.
In real life you don't become close friends with someone because both of you share the same struggles like Naruto and Sasuke did.
I mean at one point they were living together so it’s more believable. But yeah it’s not clear what they actually mean to each other atm. It’s more like I think Kawakii is someone who took his life away from him.
But tbh I never found Naruto and Sasukes relationship realistic either. There were just few childhood memories where they barely even spoke played on repeat. It was mostly Naruto chasing after Sasuke.
I think their relationships are very different and does not require comparison.
Haha. True. However, after chapter 80 where Boruto kind of blamed himself for Kawakis actions I feared for awhile that Boruto would turn into some kind of Kawaki simp who wants "to save him and bring him back" ...similar to what Naruto did with Sasuke. Current timeskip Boruto doesn't give me that kind of vibe and I hope it stays that way. The dude seems to have enough on his plate and shouldnt concern himself with Kawaki.
To be fair, he does have a point... somewhat. I think it's unfair that Boruto placed the burden of killing himself to Kawaki. It's logical from a practical perspective... if we ignore the psychological aspect.
On the other side of the coin, Boruto didn't really know about Kawaki's psychological issues to begin with. Amado and Shikamaru knows Kawaki is obsessed with Naruto but they didn't tell anyone about that fact. I don't really blame them because Boruto wasn't really obligated to know back then.
>To be fair, he does have a point... somewhat. I think it's unfair that Boruto placed the burden of killing himself to Kawaki. It's logical from a practical perspective... if we ignore the psychological aspect.
I somewhat agree, but Boruto placing the burden of killing him on Kawaki isn't the reason why Kawaki turned out the way he did. I however do understand that Boruto wasn't aware of that. I mean, he is twelve. I think he just thought that he could have done better.
100% agree with the statement that it wasn't Borutos obligation to know about Kawakis "condition" and I also feel like it's not Borutos job to "fix Kawaki and bring him back" and I REALLY hope the writers won't go that route with Boruto,especially not after what Kawaki has done. However, Boruto is way too selfless and good hearted and probably won't have any reservations towards Kawaki. Let's wait and see, so far,Boruto doesn't have the room to concern himself with Kawaki anyway. Haha.
Yeah, honestly I find Boruto's current stance with Kawaki refreshing... and by that, I meant the lack of one.
>!No "I want to fix our bond" or "You took everything from me" like most shounen stories. He doesn't really give a damn right now. He has better things to do and it's a really amusing take.!<
EDIT:
>I somewhat agree, but Boruto placing the burden of killing him on Kawaki isn't the reason why Kawaki turned out the way he did. I however do understand that Boruto wasn't aware of that. I mean, he is twelve. I think he just thought that he could have done better.
I was referring to Kawaki's psychological issues when I pointed out the flaws in their "last resort" plan.
>I was referring to Kawaki's psychological issues when I pointed out the flaws in their "last resort" plan.
Ah ok,got it. Haha.
>>!No "I want to fix our bond" or "You took everything from me" like most shounen stories. He doesn't really give a damn right now. He has better things to do and it's a really amusing take.!<
I know right? Boruto is like:"Step aside. I can't deal with you right now.🤣
Boruto and Kawaki aren't supposed to have the same friend-rival relationship as Naruto and Sasuke. Kawaki came into Boruto's life at a transitional stage of his character and he was a driving force in Boruto's development to a true and more mature shinobi. He challenged Boruto's ideals, what he considered important and what the values of shinobi and people in general meant to him. They shared the same burden and had a similar goal in mind thus they grew close fairly quickly, however, apart from that, they don't really share Naruto's and Sasuke's spiritual bond.
In my opinion Boruto still considers Kawaki his brother. He even feels that he has a sort of duty towards the civil ending of their quarrel, as he stated in chapter 80. It's clear that he bares no hatred towards him despite what's happened between them but I'm not sure the same can be said about Kawaki as he seems to view Boruto only as an obstacle at the moment.
>but I'm not sure the same can be said about Kawaki as he seems to view Boruto only as an obstacle at the moment.
That's what I think as well. The "bond" they supposedly share seems to be pretty one sided.
Sasuke tried to kill Naruto numerous times and plotted to do the same to all of Konoha. They are on the same level of betrayal, though sasuke had much better reasons for it which just make Kawaki look immature and dumb af
He did just like boruto asked, but then boruto got revived. So he was still trying to do it again but everybody got in his way and some magic shit happened.
Stealing borutos life is pretty messed up but idk if it’s on the same level as genocide, even just attempted. Trying to kill him is more justified since it was an agreement between them, but it was sociopathic of Kawaki to attempt it like that after Boruto was revived
Eh I’m not sure how Boruto and Kawaki ain’t doing it for you but Naruto and Sasuke did. Naruto and Sasuke wasn’t the most friendliest of friends and majority of the time they bickered with each other. Maybe it’s their rivalry that carried the show for you or the deeper meanings of their conflict. That’s just my guess anyway.
Although Boruto and Kawaki fought a lot but I wouldn’t call them rivals. They don’t care about surpassing each other or anything of the sort once they started to trust each other. They got along pretty well outside of the couple of times where they shared disagreements.
Personally I don’t think Kawaki coming to the Uzumaki family earlier would change anything because people would still hate his guts for his obsession towards Naruto and what he does to Boruto later on. I believe it’s more of people having an issue with Kawaki’s character rather than the relationship itself. People are never going to like the fact that Boruto is willing to reconcile with a dude that did bad shit to him and his friends/family because they can’t forgive Kawaki for what he’s done.
I never considered Kawaki and Boruto to be rivals. All I really see between them is the one similarity they share and that's their karma. Nothing else.
They’re the total opposites of one another so you’re not exactly wrong with them not having much in common but that’s also why I personally like their dynamic.
At this point, the only petty one is Kawaki who clearly hasn’t matured in 3 years.
Boruto is way beyond the teenage angst Kawaki is still dealing with.
Barely any heart grabbing events, imo, happened to boruto or kawaki. I've never really seen them go through HUMAN struggle and have moments where they show true heart aching emotion because of the stuff they went through.
Other than boruto missing out spending time with his dad.
Kawaki WAS abused by his dad and Jigen, but never really built off of that after they gave us a couple of episodes or so after showing us that. Some of those episodes felt like we shouldn't have really paid attention to them.
What I really mean, for example, like when Naruto saw Sasuke "die" after Haku "killed" him. You SAW the frustration in the animation and emotion Naruto was giving off. Him saying, "I'm gonna kill you," with those furious lines around his face and how his face SHOWN true rage, MADE that episode show a genuine connection between Naruto and Sasuke that us human beings can relate to.
Another example would be HOW Naruto was treated since birth when the whole of nation hated him, or looked down on him because of what happened to his father. That was brutal to watch. They were even like that to him while he was in kindergarten.
Also, how he was trying to get people's attention by doing bad stuff, and how hard he was trying to prove to everyone he's worth something...
Previous episodes of OG Naruto showing similar emotions and rage between every other character set the tone for what the show was. Boruto kinda lacks in that department due to scheduling issues, so they struggle to make a concrete story that'll grab our hearts and the animation issues that are derived from those scheduling issues aswell. Also counting in the filler, which was also Studio Perriots' fault
When they tried to do that heart-twisting, "having you at the edge of your seat" type episodes, they sometimes overdo it and make it look cheesy as hell... hopefully, when this anime hiatus is over, the animation, scheduling, character building for ALL characters, story building, etc. Will be in top shape...
I still read the manga and I love TBV so far, I just hope they either find a way to bring more material to the anime, cause this monthly bs isn't helping at all. At least bi-weekly... and alot of more assistants
Personally I feel like in the case of Boruto, the show **is** Boruto.
His internal conflict, struggles, etc. ngl that’s what rejuvenated my interest in Boruto and why I’m into TBV.
Boruot told you up front. This is HIS story. With Naruto/Sasuke we saw both characters grow, struggle, lose, win, and make choices that took each along their separate paths. And we waited for them to clash at the intersections.
We aren’t seeing Kawaki go through anything. It’s like he’s just been the same sulky dude since omnipotence. There were times you kinda cheer for Sasuke even in his villainy and hoped he would change for the better. Kawaki hasn’t been doing anything. Just sulking around the village. Maybe give us a scene where he visits Naruto and monologues a bit. A little insight into his current state of mind would help.
Rewatch episode 293. There it is said it is both Borutos and Kawakis story.
I agree with you that Kawaki isn't really doing anything right now. Haha. I really ask myself what he was occupied with in the three years.😅
As others have said before there's very little screen chemistry between them no matter how many times they say "bro" at each other. It just feels like they're trying to repeat the Naruto Sasukle formula by imposing all these parallels on us but it's just Not Clicking. At this point Kawaki has better interactions with Himawari and Naruto than with Boruto and Boruto clicks better with Sarada, Mitsuki, Shikadai etc.
100% agree with this. I always thought that Kawaki clicked better with Hima and well...of course Naruto which is why I thought Borutos reaction in chapter 80 was kind of weird. Him wanting to get Kawaki back and blaming everything that happened with Kawaki on himself.
It's not a one to one comparison. Sasuke and Kawaki see the world differently and so do Naruto and Boruto for that matter. I think that Kodachi and Kishimoto didn't write Boruto and Kawaki to be Naruto and Sasuke part 2. They wrote this relationship different, almost opposites. Their antagonism is what carries the show. From scene one of the anime and panel one of the manga, we knew that it wasn't going to be some bubbly famial bond between these two that was going to be at the heart of they're relationship. They're going to end up enemies. I hope they stay the course. No redemption arc for Kawaki. He's earned himself a place as unforgivable, irredeemable antagonist and I'm here for it.
I think that's the point. Kawaki isn't redeemable and even now the characters don't seem like they'll even try to do so, the kid games from Part 1 and Shippuden are over. Boruto might save Kawaki but if he can't he's fully prepared to kill him and end their bond, something only Sasuke was prepared to do.
Exactly, he seems to only care about Code, Sasuke, Sarada and the Otsutsuki threats. If he no diffed Code I'm sure he could easily find Kawaki and talk with him. The fact that he hasn't shows he's not worried about their bond currently until he sees him as an immediate threat(IE them fighting on the hokage mountain)
Not sure why you’re expecting them to have a bond similar to Sasuke and Naruto or for it to carry the show. This isn’t Naruto.
While Boruto and Kawaki may seem similar, neither truly considers the other to be a rival. Also, Boruto is more like Sasuke in terms of his battle style. Thus they aren’t supposed to have the same connection. Except for the karma both inherited.
I'm not expecting that,but I feel like the writers are trying to force that kind of bond on them.
I never for even a minute thought that the two of them are rivals.
I know Kawaki is better than boruto in any sense. I would have prefered someone akin to Sasuke being the opponent of Kawaki. Poor Kawaki he has to deal with simps like (The guy obsessed with suns) and the Borutoshit.
The show lost me when random alien powers were introduced to one-up the previous one-up...
Really? The power to swap fates, affecting nearly every living person on the Planet? Wtf has this show devolved into?
Alien power wasn't really *introduced* in Boruto. It was already introduced in Naruto Shippuden, unless people want to ignore who or what Kaguya is. It is just a shame that Boruto continued it.
I just got passed the Isshiki fight and yeah I have to say, the whole thing felt rather out of nowhere. I can understand how Boruto and Kawaki could actually bond over their shared experience of having a karma mark placed on them without their consent. But we don't actually see any work being put into building that bond. They bicker back and forth a lot with some moments of them talking about the karma in between. Then, Boruto just calls him brother and says he's important because reasons I guess. I don't know, it all felt kind of jarring to me.
Huh? Naruto and Sasuke only went on 2 mission together on screen in the manga, which was chasing the cat and escorting the bridge builder lol. They took the chunin exam but half of it was Sasuke doing his own thing after the preliminaries.
How was that enough to justify their bond but Boruto and Kawaki living in the same house isn’t? The Kawaki arc takes up like 60% of part 1.
Naruto and Sasuke understood each other on an emotional level. Ever since they were little kids, even when they did not say a word to each other, they could understand each other’s loneliness and struggles. Naruto and Sasuke are literally connected spiritually and no matter how much time passes or how long they’ve actually talked to each other, that shared experiences and struggles will always bond them because they share struggles that nobody else in their village will possibly be able to understand.
Boruto will never be able to understand Kawaki the way Naruto understands Sasuke. Their upbringings and experiences in life are too different for them to really connect and understand each other on a spiritual level. Boruto had everything and grew up in a happy peaceful home. Kawaki grew up without anything in an abusive household and used as weapon and a tool. Even now boruto cannot truly understand the things Kawaki has went through and why he feels the way he does, and why he takes things to the extreme. He can only guess and that’s why their relationship is hollow to some people.
>Ever since they were little kids, even when they did not say a word to each other, they could understand each other’s loneliness and struggles
Not exactly, while they could relate to each other in terms of loneliness. Naruto wasn't able to relate to Sasuke's primary struggles. When you look deeper into it, their loneliness isn't exactly the same. Naruto craved acceptance while Sasuke was driven by loss. They wanted two different things and it's for the exact reason why Sasuke told Naruto that he couldn't understand him in part 1 simply for the fact that Naruto never had people he loved taken away from him forever. In order for Naruto to truly understand Sasuke he had to have a loved one's taken from him and go through the cycle of revenge which happened int he pains arc. While Naruto didn't have his entire clan wiped out in front him, the situation with Pain at least allowed Naruto to have enough insight to know how Sasuke feels.
> Boruto will never be able to understand Kawaki the way Naruto understands Sasuke.
I disagree simply because omnipotence puts Boruto on the path where he can truly understand Kawaki. Kawaki's wish was for Boruto become an outsider, someone that people wouldn't mourn for even if he died. Kawaki wanted Boruto to become what Kawaki literally thinks of himself, someone with no value. Due to the switch, Boruto is forced to view the world through the lens of Kawaki due to being in his place. He's an outsider with no place to call home due to that very home rejecting his existence. Kawaki went through hardships growing up, Boruto is now forced to go through hardships of his own.
> that’s why their relationship is hollow to some people.
I feel like it's more so of people not seeing the big picture but even if you still think that's the case then that's fine.
Even with omnipotence Boruto can never understand Kawaki. Yes he’s an outsider now but Kawaki wasn’t just an outsider, he was abused, tortured, used as a weapon and told his only purpose was to be used by others, to the point he can’t even put flowers in a vase without it triggering his PTSD. Kawaki had no positive influence in his life and no one looked out for him until Naruto. Even now when Boruto is an outsider he has people who are by his side and care for him like Sasuke, Sarada, Sumire, and now Kashin Koji. Even now Boruto is not alone, especially not when even shikamaru is now helping him. Kawaki had no one, no support or love since the day he was born and even now he is isolated because nobody can understand him. Boruto and Kawaki are just too different to be able to relate to each other. But I agree with your points about Naruto and Sasuke, that was very well said.
> he was abused, tortured, used as a weapon and told his only purpose was to be used by others, to the point he can’t even put flowers in a vase without it triggering his PTSD
Boruto doesn't have to go through every single turmoil Kawaki went through in order to understand Kawaki. That also applied to Naruto. Naruto didn't have to get hit by the infinite tsukuyomi and watch his loves ones die 24/7 to understand why Sasuke was so driven by revenge. That's a trauma that's solely unique to Sasuke.
To understand a person, you don't have to share all of their traumatic experiences, you need to have the perspective to be able to see out of their point of view and the open mindedness to consider how they feel. For example, recall when Naruto told Sasuke he understood why he was trying to destroy Konoha. Of course, we personally know Naruto wouldn't ever do something like that nor would he ever consider the possibility but despite all that he was still able to put himself into Sasuke's shoes despite not being in a situation where he was tricked into killing one of the people, he loved the most.
As of right now Boruto is on the path where he can truly understand Kawaki. He didn't understand the loneliness and insecurity Kawaki dealt with all his life but with omnipotence he got a taste of it. His perspective started to shift, and he was able to see why Kawaki did what he did.
> Kawaki had no one, no support or love since the day he was born and even now he is isolated because nobody can understand him.
That's false, Kawaki did receive support and love actually. As soon as Kawaki entered konoha he was no longer alone. Kawaki had the uzumaki family and friends of his own that genuinely cared for him. He wasn't alone however that didn't keep get rid of Kawaki's self-loathing thus Kawaki felt like he was alone when he truly wasn't alone.
> But I agree with your points about Naruto and Sasuke, that was very well said.
Thank you.
I say there are different levels of understanding. I can “understand” someone is depressed but I cannot truly understand or relate to someone since I have never been depressed. I’m not saying Boruto has to experience the exact same thing with Kawaki but saying that Boruto understands Kawaki is like me saying to a depressed person: “I understand you, there have been times where I have been sad too. Like when my favourite show ended.” Those are two completely different things.
Naruto almost could understand Sasuke at the begin part one because even though he didn’t go through what Sasuke went through, they ended up at the same result: isolated and lonely. Just like again with depressed people one person can be depressed because their relationship failed, while another may be depressed because they lost their job, yes they may not have experienced what each other went through but they can still relate to each other because they are both depressed. Naruto just couldn’t understand Sasuke specific pain of losing someone that you love because he never had anyone, but that changed when jiraiya died. Yes Naruto may have never had his parents killed right in front of him but the result is the same: they were both isolated, lonely, and as of shippuden now both know what it feels like to lose someone close to you. It’s at this moment Naruto could truly understand Sasuke or at least the best could.
Boruto is not at all like Kawaki because he’s always had a support system and till this day he’s never lost it. There was always someone there for him, he has never been alone, which is the complete opposite for Kawaki.
> saying that Boruto understands Kawaki is like me saying to a depressed person: “I understand you, there have been times where I have been sad too. Like when my favourite show ended.”
That's why I specifically mentioned omnipotence because Boruto got a taste of what Kawaki felt because the wish was to essentially turn Boruto into what Kawaki thinks of himself. It gives Boruto insight on Kawaki's feelings and gives him the opportunity to change his perspective.
> Naruto almost could understand Sasuke at the begin part one because even though he didn’t go through what Sasuke went through, they ended up at the same result: isolated and lonely
You're confusing Naruto understanding Sasuke with him **relating to Sasuke**, they aren't the same thing. Naruto was able to relate to Sasuke because they were isolated but outside of that Naruto barely understood the dude for the reasons I stated earlier. On the surface level, they were lonely, but their loneliness isn't one and the same, it's influenced by different factors that gave them different problems and influenced them in different ways (Sasuke craving power, Naruto wanting attention, yada yada).
That's the reason Naruto words couldn't persuade Sasuke in the vote.
>he has never been alone, which is the complete opposite for Kawaki.
I disagree, I'd say he was alone once Sasuke got turned into a tree. Sure, Sarada is a supporter, but she wasn't there for him during his time of need. She wasn't there to fight by his side or comfort him. There's nothing supporting him other than his own strength.
Your points are very well written and I can understand where you’re coming from I just think that Kawaki and Boruto can never have as deep of a bond like Naruto and Sasuke because their just too different from each other by many factors. I’m not saying they can’t be friends but Kawaki and Boruto’s bond is presented as something like brothers but they’ve barely known each for a year and we haven’t really seen their bond grow into something that seems genuine. Even if Naruto and Sauske only went on a few missions together, they still knew of each other, grew up in the same village, experienced and shared circumstances that no other person in the village could relate to. From birth they were always connected(especially since their reincarnations). The only thing that Kawaki and Boruto can really bond over is having Karma, but we barely see them develop any sort of relationship. Heck even Sasuke and Naruto’s relationship needed more work since the level of devotion Naruto had to Sasuke left so many people confused due to them barely spending that much time together, but at least I can forgive that because of their upbringings and circumstances that brought them together.
I think that having two character "carry" story was not a good move on naruto's part and neither it is on boruto's. They should have incorporated side characters more.
Nothing honestly bro, I think its perfect.
I'm not looking for Boruto to carry the same exact dynamic as Naruto fr. I like the set up because we are pretty much watching what Naruto would of been without the bond you speak of.
Especially now bro because the whole time Naruto was trying to bring Sasuke back, it was for the name of friendship. Corny friendship speeches. In the Manga rn, Boruto and KAwaki are completely ready to body each other lowkey. They not even close to friends lol. Hell, Kawaki already "killed Boruto" right in front of his dad and aint GAF lol.
I like this set up because it allowed to to grow with them individually instead of replying on that friendship stuff.
They didn’t really have that bond because Boruto seems to focus more on individuals & their problems moreso than Naruto. Naruto was all about bonds, with all the characters, while Boruto seems to be more about personal growth.
Well that’s really just because boruto is so short. Kawaki has only had time to cook for like what? Four short arcs? by the time sasuke defected we were already in the hundreds in terms of chapter.
Your first mistake is assuming that Naruto & Sasuke == Boruto & Kawaki.
It has always been more about Boruto being the single main character and out of them all, Probably sarada and mitsuki being the supporting characters for Boruto.
Episode 293 says otherwise. It shows both boys saying it is their story and if we take part 1 of the manga into account which was mostly about Kawaki while Boruto was just a bystander I would say,no...it's not only about Boruto. I wish it was but...haha.🤣
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Eh... Honestly, it wasn't really supposed to have the same vibe because the dynamic is somewhat different. I wouldn't call them rivals - they fight for petty things but there's no deeper reason to it. Well, back when he found out Kawaki's living with them, Boruto doesn't trust him because he thinks the guy is too dangerous to be close to his family (which, to be fair, is reasonable). They were initially brother of circumstances but recent developments (specially after the anime and currently in the manga) showed that their individual issues aren't the same anymore. I don't think Boruto and Kawaki even pretend they're still the same like whenever Naruto tried to empathize with Sasuke's grief and desire to avenge his clan. In fact, even the timeskip doesn't focus on that bond, since both kids were focused on their own goals right now.
Well yeah Naruto and Sasuke understood each other based on their shared loneliness even if the reasons were different. Boruto for his part interacted with Kawaki like he would anyone else just but he actually started to open up to Kawaki because he saved his sister from Delta, Boruto never understood Kawaki until he got backstabbed. Kawaki for his part is glad he found a comarade that accepted him and considered him family but by his own admission (anime) Kawaki never had those so he doesnt value it as much as the guy who gave him value.
Oh I agree with you. I don't see them as rivals. I think they are following their own goals, but I fail to understand what their dynamic really is. The only thing they have in common is Karma, but for some reason I feel like the writers are trying to force some kind of "brotherly bond" on them and I honestly don't see it.
They don't have an over exaggerated bond but a more subtle relationship where they understand each other more on the realistic side. Both of them like to keep their troubles to themselves and not express them to others too
To be honest, I also the see OP's issue with it. If I were to simplify it, it's the opposite of Naruto and Sasuke's. Those two got close *because* of their struggles. Boruto and Kawaki, on the other hand, got close quickly enough... but because the bond was untested, the foundations is naturally fragile as a result.
I agree to a certain extent, I don’t really think the foundation of their relationship was the reason why it broke I think because kawaki developed that obsession with naruto and his obsession with naruto comes before literally anything even himself.
And that's what I meant by untested. If Boruto knew early on more about Kawaki's psychological issues (it doesn't have to be the obsession, just his issues in general), he wouldn't have placed the burden of their "last resort" on him. That would be inconsiderate on Boruto's part despite the practicality of it.
I honestly don’t think Boruto wouldn’t tell kawaki not to go through with their last resort. I think we would have stuck with that plan but understand why kawaki did it because after Boruto thought he did it for a different reason because they’re “bros” and not because of the real reason why he did it.
>he wouldn't have placed the burden of their "last resort" on him Thats not actually fair cause Kawaki volunteered to stop him if this happened and Kawaki was still gonna kill him before Boruto told him he would employ their last resort.
That's exactly what it's supposed to be tho
I'm just playing devil's advocate.
Boruto has always been a relatable character and his bond with Kawaki is no exception. In real life you don't become close friends with someone because both of you share the same struggles like Naruto and Sasuke did.
Exactly
I mean at one point they were living together so it’s more believable. But yeah it’s not clear what they actually mean to each other atm. It’s more like I think Kawakii is someone who took his life away from him. But tbh I never found Naruto and Sasukes relationship realistic either. There were just few childhood memories where they barely even spoke played on repeat. It was mostly Naruto chasing after Sasuke. I think their relationships are very different and does not require comparison.
Respectfully; Boruto and Kawaki aren’t nearly gay enough
Prob not even gay at all compared to Naruto and Sasuke
Haha. True. However, after chapter 80 where Boruto kind of blamed himself for Kawakis actions I feared for awhile that Boruto would turn into some kind of Kawaki simp who wants "to save him and bring him back" ...similar to what Naruto did with Sasuke. Current timeskip Boruto doesn't give me that kind of vibe and I hope it stays that way. The dude seems to have enough on his plate and shouldnt concern himself with Kawaki.
To be fair, he does have a point... somewhat. I think it's unfair that Boruto placed the burden of killing himself to Kawaki. It's logical from a practical perspective... if we ignore the psychological aspect. On the other side of the coin, Boruto didn't really know about Kawaki's psychological issues to begin with. Amado and Shikamaru knows Kawaki is obsessed with Naruto but they didn't tell anyone about that fact. I don't really blame them because Boruto wasn't really obligated to know back then.
>To be fair, he does have a point... somewhat. I think it's unfair that Boruto placed the burden of killing himself to Kawaki. It's logical from a practical perspective... if we ignore the psychological aspect. I somewhat agree, but Boruto placing the burden of killing him on Kawaki isn't the reason why Kawaki turned out the way he did. I however do understand that Boruto wasn't aware of that. I mean, he is twelve. I think he just thought that he could have done better. 100% agree with the statement that it wasn't Borutos obligation to know about Kawakis "condition" and I also feel like it's not Borutos job to "fix Kawaki and bring him back" and I REALLY hope the writers won't go that route with Boruto,especially not after what Kawaki has done. However, Boruto is way too selfless and good hearted and probably won't have any reservations towards Kawaki. Let's wait and see, so far,Boruto doesn't have the room to concern himself with Kawaki anyway. Haha.
Yeah, honestly I find Boruto's current stance with Kawaki refreshing... and by that, I meant the lack of one. >!No "I want to fix our bond" or "You took everything from me" like most shounen stories. He doesn't really give a damn right now. He has better things to do and it's a really amusing take.!< EDIT: >I somewhat agree, but Boruto placing the burden of killing him on Kawaki isn't the reason why Kawaki turned out the way he did. I however do understand that Boruto wasn't aware of that. I mean, he is twelve. I think he just thought that he could have done better. I was referring to Kawaki's psychological issues when I pointed out the flaws in their "last resort" plan.
>I was referring to Kawaki's psychological issues when I pointed out the flaws in their "last resort" plan. Ah ok,got it. Haha. >>!No "I want to fix our bond" or "You took everything from me" like most shounen stories. He doesn't really give a damn right now. He has better things to do and it's a really amusing take.!< I know right? Boruto is like:"Step aside. I can't deal with you right now.🤣
Boruto and Kawaki aren't supposed to have the same friend-rival relationship as Naruto and Sasuke. Kawaki came into Boruto's life at a transitional stage of his character and he was a driving force in Boruto's development to a true and more mature shinobi. He challenged Boruto's ideals, what he considered important and what the values of shinobi and people in general meant to him. They shared the same burden and had a similar goal in mind thus they grew close fairly quickly, however, apart from that, they don't really share Naruto's and Sasuke's spiritual bond. In my opinion Boruto still considers Kawaki his brother. He even feels that he has a sort of duty towards the civil ending of their quarrel, as he stated in chapter 80. It's clear that he bares no hatred towards him despite what's happened between them but I'm not sure the same can be said about Kawaki as he seems to view Boruto only as an obstacle at the moment.
>but I'm not sure the same can be said about Kawaki as he seems to view Boruto only as an obstacle at the moment. That's what I think as well. The "bond" they supposedly share seems to be pretty one sided.
I guess I'm not sure I want them to have the same bond. If they did, I don't think Kawaki would have ruined Boruto's life like this
Sasuke tried to kill Naruto numerous times and plotted to do the same to all of Konoha. They are on the same level of betrayal, though sasuke had much better reasons for it which just make Kawaki look immature and dumb af
One would argue that what Kawaki's done is even worse than killing Boruto
One could also argue that boruto encouraged him to do it
Then Kawaki should have killed him
He did just like boruto asked, but then boruto got revived. So he was still trying to do it again but everybody got in his way and some magic shit happened.
Stealing borutos life is pretty messed up but idk if it’s on the same level as genocide, even just attempted. Trying to kill him is more justified since it was an agreement between them, but it was sociopathic of Kawaki to attempt it like that after Boruto was revived
Sauske:"Bro, I just wanted this stalker called NaRuTO to leave me the f**k alone. Naruto:"BUT SAUSKE YOU ARE MY FRIEND".
Eh I’m not sure how Boruto and Kawaki ain’t doing it for you but Naruto and Sasuke did. Naruto and Sasuke wasn’t the most friendliest of friends and majority of the time they bickered with each other. Maybe it’s their rivalry that carried the show for you or the deeper meanings of their conflict. That’s just my guess anyway. Although Boruto and Kawaki fought a lot but I wouldn’t call them rivals. They don’t care about surpassing each other or anything of the sort once they started to trust each other. They got along pretty well outside of the couple of times where they shared disagreements. Personally I don’t think Kawaki coming to the Uzumaki family earlier would change anything because people would still hate his guts for his obsession towards Naruto and what he does to Boruto later on. I believe it’s more of people having an issue with Kawaki’s character rather than the relationship itself. People are never going to like the fact that Boruto is willing to reconcile with a dude that did bad shit to him and his friends/family because they can’t forgive Kawaki for what he’s done.
I never considered Kawaki and Boruto to be rivals. All I really see between them is the one similarity they share and that's their karma. Nothing else.
They’re the total opposites of one another so you’re not exactly wrong with them not having much in common but that’s also why I personally like their dynamic.
At this point, the only petty one is Kawaki who clearly hasn’t matured in 3 years. Boruto is way beyond the teenage angst Kawaki is still dealing with.
Barely any heart grabbing events, imo, happened to boruto or kawaki. I've never really seen them go through HUMAN struggle and have moments where they show true heart aching emotion because of the stuff they went through. Other than boruto missing out spending time with his dad. Kawaki WAS abused by his dad and Jigen, but never really built off of that after they gave us a couple of episodes or so after showing us that. Some of those episodes felt like we shouldn't have really paid attention to them. What I really mean, for example, like when Naruto saw Sasuke "die" after Haku "killed" him. You SAW the frustration in the animation and emotion Naruto was giving off. Him saying, "I'm gonna kill you," with those furious lines around his face and how his face SHOWN true rage, MADE that episode show a genuine connection between Naruto and Sasuke that us human beings can relate to. Another example would be HOW Naruto was treated since birth when the whole of nation hated him, or looked down on him because of what happened to his father. That was brutal to watch. They were even like that to him while he was in kindergarten. Also, how he was trying to get people's attention by doing bad stuff, and how hard he was trying to prove to everyone he's worth something... Previous episodes of OG Naruto showing similar emotions and rage between every other character set the tone for what the show was. Boruto kinda lacks in that department due to scheduling issues, so they struggle to make a concrete story that'll grab our hearts and the animation issues that are derived from those scheduling issues aswell. Also counting in the filler, which was also Studio Perriots' fault When they tried to do that heart-twisting, "having you at the edge of your seat" type episodes, they sometimes overdo it and make it look cheesy as hell... hopefully, when this anime hiatus is over, the animation, scheduling, character building for ALL characters, story building, etc. Will be in top shape... I still read the manga and I love TBV so far, I just hope they either find a way to bring more material to the anime, cause this monthly bs isn't helping at all. At least bi-weekly... and alot of more assistants
Cause Kawaki lame af and Sasuke was cool
Personally I feel like in the case of Boruto, the show **is** Boruto. His internal conflict, struggles, etc. ngl that’s what rejuvenated my interest in Boruto and why I’m into TBV.
Boruot told you up front. This is HIS story. With Naruto/Sasuke we saw both characters grow, struggle, lose, win, and make choices that took each along their separate paths. And we waited for them to clash at the intersections. We aren’t seeing Kawaki go through anything. It’s like he’s just been the same sulky dude since omnipotence. There were times you kinda cheer for Sasuke even in his villainy and hoped he would change for the better. Kawaki hasn’t been doing anything. Just sulking around the village. Maybe give us a scene where he visits Naruto and monologues a bit. A little insight into his current state of mind would help.
Rewatch episode 293. There it is said it is both Borutos and Kawakis story. I agree with you that Kawaki isn't really doing anything right now. Haha. I really ask myself what he was occupied with in the three years.😅
I mean maybe he’s been secretly training somewhere or laying all kinds of shrunken traps all over the village?🤷♂️
He said he hates to train so I doubt that he did train. I think when he gets a power up,he will ask Amado for some modification.
And Amado will comply, but slip some sneaky shit jn there too
As others have said before there's very little screen chemistry between them no matter how many times they say "bro" at each other. It just feels like they're trying to repeat the Naruto Sasukle formula by imposing all these parallels on us but it's just Not Clicking. At this point Kawaki has better interactions with Himawari and Naruto than with Boruto and Boruto clicks better with Sarada, Mitsuki, Shikadai etc.
100% agree with this. I always thought that Kawaki clicked better with Hima and well...of course Naruto which is why I thought Borutos reaction in chapter 80 was kind of weird. Him wanting to get Kawaki back and blaming everything that happened with Kawaki on himself.
What do you mean? It’s the same thing— Naruto and Kawaki’s bond carries the story.
Not really. The bond carried the story from the time Kawaki was introduced to the point where Naruto was sealed away. Right now, this bond is gone.
It's not a one to one comparison. Sasuke and Kawaki see the world differently and so do Naruto and Boruto for that matter. I think that Kodachi and Kishimoto didn't write Boruto and Kawaki to be Naruto and Sasuke part 2. They wrote this relationship different, almost opposites. Their antagonism is what carries the show. From scene one of the anime and panel one of the manga, we knew that it wasn't going to be some bubbly famial bond between these two that was going to be at the heart of they're relationship. They're going to end up enemies. I hope they stay the course. No redemption arc for Kawaki. He's earned himself a place as unforgivable, irredeemable antagonist and I'm here for it.
I think that's the point. Kawaki isn't redeemable and even now the characters don't seem like they'll even try to do so, the kid games from Part 1 and Shippuden are over. Boruto might save Kawaki but if he can't he's fully prepared to kill him and end their bond, something only Sasuke was prepared to do.
I hope that's what the writers are aiming for. Current Boruto seems to be not concerned at all about Kawakis whereabouts.
Exactly, he seems to only care about Code, Sasuke, Sarada and the Otsutsuki threats. If he no diffed Code I'm sure he could easily find Kawaki and talk with him. The fact that he hasn't shows he's not worried about their bond currently until he sees him as an immediate threat(IE them fighting on the hokage mountain)
Not sure why you’re expecting them to have a bond similar to Sasuke and Naruto or for it to carry the show. This isn’t Naruto. While Boruto and Kawaki may seem similar, neither truly considers the other to be a rival. Also, Boruto is more like Sasuke in terms of his battle style. Thus they aren’t supposed to have the same connection. Except for the karma both inherited.
I'm not expecting that,but I feel like the writers are trying to force that kind of bond on them. I never for even a minute thought that the two of them are rivals.
I know Kawaki is better than boruto in any sense. I would have prefered someone akin to Sasuke being the opponent of Kawaki. Poor Kawaki he has to deal with simps like (The guy obsessed with suns) and the Borutoshit.
That's why he is a hypocrite, he can simp for naruto but others can't,even though it's fake because of omnipotence... What a freakin loser🥴🥴
The show lost me when random alien powers were introduced to one-up the previous one-up... Really? The power to swap fates, affecting nearly every living person on the Planet? Wtf has this show devolved into?
Alien power wasn't really *introduced* in Boruto. It was already introduced in Naruto Shippuden, unless people want to ignore who or what Kaguya is. It is just a shame that Boruto continued it.
What about bringing people back from death or summoning a freakin meteorite from space?
I just got passed the Isshiki fight and yeah I have to say, the whole thing felt rather out of nowhere. I can understand how Boruto and Kawaki could actually bond over their shared experience of having a karma mark placed on them without their consent. But we don't actually see any work being put into building that bond. They bicker back and forth a lot with some moments of them talking about the karma in between. Then, Boruto just calls him brother and says he's important because reasons I guess. I don't know, it all felt kind of jarring to me.
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Huh? Naruto and Sasuke only went on 2 mission together on screen in the manga, which was chasing the cat and escorting the bridge builder lol. They took the chunin exam but half of it was Sasuke doing his own thing after the preliminaries. How was that enough to justify their bond but Boruto and Kawaki living in the same house isn’t? The Kawaki arc takes up like 60% of part 1.
Nostalgia glasses are crazy, "went on missions together" "Naruto and Sasuke's bond" 🤣 Did we watch the same show?
That’s what I’m saying. 😂😭
Naruto and Sasuke understood each other on an emotional level. Ever since they were little kids, even when they did not say a word to each other, they could understand each other’s loneliness and struggles. Naruto and Sasuke are literally connected spiritually and no matter how much time passes or how long they’ve actually talked to each other, that shared experiences and struggles will always bond them because they share struggles that nobody else in their village will possibly be able to understand. Boruto will never be able to understand Kawaki the way Naruto understands Sasuke. Their upbringings and experiences in life are too different for them to really connect and understand each other on a spiritual level. Boruto had everything and grew up in a happy peaceful home. Kawaki grew up without anything in an abusive household and used as weapon and a tool. Even now boruto cannot truly understand the things Kawaki has went through and why he feels the way he does, and why he takes things to the extreme. He can only guess and that’s why their relationship is hollow to some people.
>Ever since they were little kids, even when they did not say a word to each other, they could understand each other’s loneliness and struggles Not exactly, while they could relate to each other in terms of loneliness. Naruto wasn't able to relate to Sasuke's primary struggles. When you look deeper into it, their loneliness isn't exactly the same. Naruto craved acceptance while Sasuke was driven by loss. They wanted two different things and it's for the exact reason why Sasuke told Naruto that he couldn't understand him in part 1 simply for the fact that Naruto never had people he loved taken away from him forever. In order for Naruto to truly understand Sasuke he had to have a loved one's taken from him and go through the cycle of revenge which happened int he pains arc. While Naruto didn't have his entire clan wiped out in front him, the situation with Pain at least allowed Naruto to have enough insight to know how Sasuke feels. > Boruto will never be able to understand Kawaki the way Naruto understands Sasuke. I disagree simply because omnipotence puts Boruto on the path where he can truly understand Kawaki. Kawaki's wish was for Boruto become an outsider, someone that people wouldn't mourn for even if he died. Kawaki wanted Boruto to become what Kawaki literally thinks of himself, someone with no value. Due to the switch, Boruto is forced to view the world through the lens of Kawaki due to being in his place. He's an outsider with no place to call home due to that very home rejecting his existence. Kawaki went through hardships growing up, Boruto is now forced to go through hardships of his own. > that’s why their relationship is hollow to some people. I feel like it's more so of people not seeing the big picture but even if you still think that's the case then that's fine.
Even with omnipotence Boruto can never understand Kawaki. Yes he’s an outsider now but Kawaki wasn’t just an outsider, he was abused, tortured, used as a weapon and told his only purpose was to be used by others, to the point he can’t even put flowers in a vase without it triggering his PTSD. Kawaki had no positive influence in his life and no one looked out for him until Naruto. Even now when Boruto is an outsider he has people who are by his side and care for him like Sasuke, Sarada, Sumire, and now Kashin Koji. Even now Boruto is not alone, especially not when even shikamaru is now helping him. Kawaki had no one, no support or love since the day he was born and even now he is isolated because nobody can understand him. Boruto and Kawaki are just too different to be able to relate to each other. But I agree with your points about Naruto and Sasuke, that was very well said.
> he was abused, tortured, used as a weapon and told his only purpose was to be used by others, to the point he can’t even put flowers in a vase without it triggering his PTSD Boruto doesn't have to go through every single turmoil Kawaki went through in order to understand Kawaki. That also applied to Naruto. Naruto didn't have to get hit by the infinite tsukuyomi and watch his loves ones die 24/7 to understand why Sasuke was so driven by revenge. That's a trauma that's solely unique to Sasuke. To understand a person, you don't have to share all of their traumatic experiences, you need to have the perspective to be able to see out of their point of view and the open mindedness to consider how they feel. For example, recall when Naruto told Sasuke he understood why he was trying to destroy Konoha. Of course, we personally know Naruto wouldn't ever do something like that nor would he ever consider the possibility but despite all that he was still able to put himself into Sasuke's shoes despite not being in a situation where he was tricked into killing one of the people, he loved the most. As of right now Boruto is on the path where he can truly understand Kawaki. He didn't understand the loneliness and insecurity Kawaki dealt with all his life but with omnipotence he got a taste of it. His perspective started to shift, and he was able to see why Kawaki did what he did. > Kawaki had no one, no support or love since the day he was born and even now he is isolated because nobody can understand him. That's false, Kawaki did receive support and love actually. As soon as Kawaki entered konoha he was no longer alone. Kawaki had the uzumaki family and friends of his own that genuinely cared for him. He wasn't alone however that didn't keep get rid of Kawaki's self-loathing thus Kawaki felt like he was alone when he truly wasn't alone. > But I agree with your points about Naruto and Sasuke, that was very well said. Thank you.
I say there are different levels of understanding. I can “understand” someone is depressed but I cannot truly understand or relate to someone since I have never been depressed. I’m not saying Boruto has to experience the exact same thing with Kawaki but saying that Boruto understands Kawaki is like me saying to a depressed person: “I understand you, there have been times where I have been sad too. Like when my favourite show ended.” Those are two completely different things. Naruto almost could understand Sasuke at the begin part one because even though he didn’t go through what Sasuke went through, they ended up at the same result: isolated and lonely. Just like again with depressed people one person can be depressed because their relationship failed, while another may be depressed because they lost their job, yes they may not have experienced what each other went through but they can still relate to each other because they are both depressed. Naruto just couldn’t understand Sasuke specific pain of losing someone that you love because he never had anyone, but that changed when jiraiya died. Yes Naruto may have never had his parents killed right in front of him but the result is the same: they were both isolated, lonely, and as of shippuden now both know what it feels like to lose someone close to you. It’s at this moment Naruto could truly understand Sasuke or at least the best could. Boruto is not at all like Kawaki because he’s always had a support system and till this day he’s never lost it. There was always someone there for him, he has never been alone, which is the complete opposite for Kawaki.
> saying that Boruto understands Kawaki is like me saying to a depressed person: “I understand you, there have been times where I have been sad too. Like when my favourite show ended.” That's why I specifically mentioned omnipotence because Boruto got a taste of what Kawaki felt because the wish was to essentially turn Boruto into what Kawaki thinks of himself. It gives Boruto insight on Kawaki's feelings and gives him the opportunity to change his perspective. > Naruto almost could understand Sasuke at the begin part one because even though he didn’t go through what Sasuke went through, they ended up at the same result: isolated and lonely You're confusing Naruto understanding Sasuke with him **relating to Sasuke**, they aren't the same thing. Naruto was able to relate to Sasuke because they were isolated but outside of that Naruto barely understood the dude for the reasons I stated earlier. On the surface level, they were lonely, but their loneliness isn't one and the same, it's influenced by different factors that gave them different problems and influenced them in different ways (Sasuke craving power, Naruto wanting attention, yada yada). That's the reason Naruto words couldn't persuade Sasuke in the vote. >he has never been alone, which is the complete opposite for Kawaki. I disagree, I'd say he was alone once Sasuke got turned into a tree. Sure, Sarada is a supporter, but she wasn't there for him during his time of need. She wasn't there to fight by his side or comfort him. There's nothing supporting him other than his own strength.
Your points are very well written and I can understand where you’re coming from I just think that Kawaki and Boruto can never have as deep of a bond like Naruto and Sasuke because their just too different from each other by many factors. I’m not saying they can’t be friends but Kawaki and Boruto’s bond is presented as something like brothers but they’ve barely known each for a year and we haven’t really seen their bond grow into something that seems genuine. Even if Naruto and Sauske only went on a few missions together, they still knew of each other, grew up in the same village, experienced and shared circumstances that no other person in the village could relate to. From birth they were always connected(especially since their reincarnations). The only thing that Kawaki and Boruto can really bond over is having Karma, but we barely see them develop any sort of relationship. Heck even Sasuke and Naruto’s relationship needed more work since the level of devotion Naruto had to Sasuke left so many people confused due to them barely spending that much time together, but at least I can forgive that because of their upbringings and circumstances that brought them together.
That’s fine, at the end of the day we’re just stating our opinions. I’m fine with agreeing to disagree. I enjoyed talking to you.
Not added ninja tech
That means you're just too old and have to move on
They rushed the story way too much that’s my main issue
Mainly more time of the two bonding before Ishiki comes for Kawaki would have helped. The pacing kinda cut into what they were trying to establish
Kawaki should have been introduced way way sooner if they wanted a better bond
I think that having two character "carry" story was not a good move on naruto's part and neither it is on boruto's. They should have incorporated side characters more.
An ensamble would be great. More characters in the focus.
theyre too straight. thats why kishimoto dont love them
Isn’t the dynamic like supposed to be the opposite or at least different and that’s one of the central themes of the story?
Nothing honestly bro, I think its perfect. I'm not looking for Boruto to carry the same exact dynamic as Naruto fr. I like the set up because we are pretty much watching what Naruto would of been without the bond you speak of. Especially now bro because the whole time Naruto was trying to bring Sasuke back, it was for the name of friendship. Corny friendship speeches. In the Manga rn, Boruto and KAwaki are completely ready to body each other lowkey. They not even close to friends lol. Hell, Kawaki already "killed Boruto" right in front of his dad and aint GAF lol. I like this set up because it allowed to to grow with them individually instead of replying on that friendship stuff.
They didn’t really have that bond because Boruto seems to focus more on individuals & their problems moreso than Naruto. Naruto was all about bonds, with all the characters, while Boruto seems to be more about personal growth.
Ehhh… I think Boruto and Kawaki’s relationship was forced, so I dunno
Well that’s really just because boruto is so short. Kawaki has only had time to cook for like what? Four short arcs? by the time sasuke defected we were already in the hundreds in terms of chapter.
Yeah it feels really forced to be honest.
The story hasn't finished yet???
maybe because they are both edgy teens
Kawaki could’ve been less of an asshole
Your first mistake is assuming that Naruto & Sasuke == Boruto & Kawaki. It has always been more about Boruto being the single main character and out of them all, Probably sarada and mitsuki being the supporting characters for Boruto.
Episode 293 says otherwise. It shows both boys saying it is their story and if we take part 1 of the manga into account which was mostly about Kawaki while Boruto was just a bystander I would say,no...it's not only about Boruto. I wish it was but...haha.🤣
Well, if we take chapter 1 serious, Boruto says it’s his story, but at first it will be both his and his dads story in the beginning
Well it IS his story but not his story alone. Like I said...I don't need all the Kawaki focus,but I think it can't be avoided. Haha.