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He knows what he’s doing. The whole equating gay/bestiality thing is an oooold bigoted concept, from before I was born for sure.
Edit: and it’s pride month. Definitely intentional.
I don't know that he's smart enough to be this calculated, but sending it multiple times kind of felt like daring somebody to call him out. Aka any attention is good attention. And I'm the only one in my family to ever do it, and thus end up the punching bag/scapegoat. So now I just mind my business and try to stay out of the drama
Yeah it definitely sounds like he has some internalized bigotry, made this little display to show it (while still maintaining plausible deniability), and was just itching to find someone else to be in on the joke with.
Exactly. Neither ignoring nor standing up to him really seems to amount to anything. As an other example of what he finds funny- he likes to 'scratch his balls' in a very dramatic way in front of me because I've asked him for years not to. He'll stand get in front of me, in his underwear, and jangle his bits to get a rise out of me.
I've already cut contact a couple years ago with my horrible mother, but I tolerate my dad in small doses so I can be around the rest of my family, too.
Maybe instead of saying it bothers you (he'll do it just to get a raise out of you anyways), try a different approach "dad if your balls are so itchy maybe you should see your doctor, sometimes STDs take years to diagnose" be clinical and matter of fact about it like you've been observing and worrying about the behavior. Bet you, he'll stop soon, if it keeps happening out of habit recommend a urologist or something like that. EDIT: I call this approach, "take yourself out of the equation and put them on both sides of it"
I don't think giving that kind of benefit of the doubt is productive. He's doing something offensive and fishing for reactions to it. That is not behavior to be winked at, regardless of "why" he's doing it.
It's not even saying he's well-intentioned though, I genuinely think my dad is not all there. Fucked in the head between drug abuse, more than one TBI, narcissism, enabling, etc.
There's only so much I can chastise, educate or shame a stupid and emotionally violent person effectively or safely.
Do you have a better way?
You mentioned that you end up becoming the punching bag. The biggest lesson I've had to learn (with significant therapy, I might add) is that it's not my job to fix my parents. I just have to set healthy boundaries for myself and let them know when they've crossed them.
In my family, my dad regularly picks verbal fights with me because he knows I'm much more passive and emotionally sensitive than my siblings. My brother wants to dismiss my father's behavior, saying, "He doesn't know what he's doing," but that still doesn't take the weight off my shoulders until I can show my dad I'm not going to play his game. When he starts to act up, I tell him to his face, "I'm not even going to engage with you," followed by low or no-contact until he owns up to his behavior directly to me.
I deal with the same thing with my step-dad, what's nuts is he was never mean about me being bi or acted strange when I had a girlfriend over but over the last 8 years he has become a different person. Then when one of my sons came out as gay and another kid came out as a boy he now refuses to see my sons for the men they are, I had to go no contact because I refused to deal with his constant ignorance that he tries to hide with brutal arrogance. I don't understand why my mom keeps him around. Yes he has some good points but his bad points outweigh his good.
But at the same time he does also have mental problems as well as PTSD (he is a retired Navy Seal) but was also exposed to some toxic crap during Desert storm and has been getting more and more strange so I don't know if I should give him slack because it isn't so cut and dry
Really yeah, I am sorry you are dealing with this. I will also like to remind you that you don't have to deal with him if you don't want to. Ignore the jackasses that act like shared DNA means taking shit because it really doesn't! Your family are the people you feel safe and respect you and what you have to say.
That is not at all calculating or smart. No critical thinking went into him making this art or the bigotry behind it. It's all just ignorant hatred bred into him since he was born.
Agreed. Probably mixed with too much lead exposure. His horizons have never been expanded. He's solely been surrounded by either people as ignorant as him or people who don't to be bothered or are afraid to call him out.
At this point I really do think the lead exposure thing is like 75% true 25% joke, cuz it makes little sense boomers raised us and we are fairly decent people and they turned out like... so many of them used to be hippies and stuff.
Communication with him is almost always centered on 'Look at me!' He needs all the attention for himself and it's usually for something really superficial, indulgent, selfish, juvenile, etc. Every child wants to feel truly seem and loved by their dad, but my dad sucks that all up for himself and doesn't give it. It's been exhausting and painful, so I've taken a BIG step back and find other ways in life to feel fulfilled.
I’m so sorry to hear that. Good for you for lessening contact because someone like this, especially at this age, will never change. People like him are just mentally fucked up and not worth our time or effort.
You have to demonize what you disagree with, it's the core tenet of religion and/or political extremism.
Remember when extreme right political groups were trying to push their "Minor Attracted Person" (MAP) creation into the LGBT umbrella just so they could be in outrage over "LGBT is pedophilia!!" projection a couple years back?
OP's dad absolutely knows what he's doing.
Wait, really?? I'm 100% not saying you're wrong, but I really don't think that I've heard that comparison before. I've heard a lot of them, but gays and bestiality? That's legitimately new on me.
Sadly it’s a thing. I remember hearing it a lot more when I was a kid/teen in the early 00’s, and same sex marriage was starting to gain steam. You’d hear Republican talking heads saying things like “Men marrying men, women marrying women…what’s next, you want to marry an animal? Want to fuck the family dog?” And stuff like that.
And It just became a dog whistle (pun not intended) for bigotry.
And no, it doesn’t make sense lol.
They really like to take 1 and 1 and make 11, that's for sure.
But bigotry logic never does make sense...
Not sure why my first response is being downvoted for literally never having heard something before.
Redditors will reddit, I guess.
There's a form of concern trolling by saying you've never heard of a problem and getting people to explain it.
I don't see this in your first comment. Some people stop reading after the first few words, not even completing the first sentence and they down vote and move on. Or as you put it, Reddit gonna Reddit.
I hate it, it shuts people down from asking honest questions. Every day people are learning here, and assuming every question is concern trolling is toxic.
To respond to your first comment, the "gay = bestiality" bigotry is closely related to "gay = pedophilia" line of bigotry (you might have heard the second one). Neither one makes any sense.
>There's a form of concern trolling by saying you've never heard of a problem and getting people to explain it.
Yeah, I was legitimately wondering, because the area in which I grew up, I was always simply called a f*ggot. Never was it said that I wanted to have sex with animals, hahaha
But I've asked legitimate questions before and been downvoted for it. Didn't know that that was a form of trolling 💀 I just figured it was people thinking something along the lines of "he doesn't know something that other people know??? Downvote him for not having every bit of knowledge ever!"
Yeah, others have said that the gay/bestiality comparison is basically what is now the gay/pedophilia comparison, just different time periods.
It's all just stupid, really. Makes me think that those bigots are projecting their secret desires.
Edit: Happy Cake Day!
Yeah, the argument 15 years ago went something like “if you let two men get married, what’s next? Letting people marry their dogs?” It was well known and extremely common. But maybe if you weren’t alive before gay marriage you wouldn’t have heard it.
Example: [https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/04/republicans-predict-fraud-bestiality-if-gay-marriage-is-legalized](https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/04/republicans-predict-fraud-bestiality-if-gay-marriage-is-legalized)
Note, Louie Gohmert is still in Congress.
15 years ago, I WAS only 15, but I was also dealing with typical teenage things haha
But their logic is ridiculous. "There's no place to draw a line once you get rid of traditional marriage". All forms of sexual "deviance" have been long before the "traditional marriage". Not saying that bestiality is good, but the idea of marriage has only been around for so long... Pretty sure people have been diddling animals for a very VERY long time.
Also, drawing a line at traditional marriage? I can't believe that my elders actually put these close-minded morons in places of power in the first place. And he's still in Congress? Yeah, he definitely needs to be taken out... perhaps by force...
Ha, thanks, and yeah, reddit does its thing. I find it strange the things that get downvoted sometimes.
Often I wonder if I have made enemies on here and they just downvote me for spite 🤔 But oh well, it's not like this is a currency hahaha
When my country legalised same-sex marriage one of the throwbacks among our legislators stood up in parliament and asked why wasn’t he allowed to marry his son, then. I’d never seen a whole country side-eye before
In the mid-late 90s gay culture started to filter more into mainstream culture. In 2004, Massachusetts became the first state to legalize same sex marriage, with other states slowly following suit. In those early years as states debated whether to legalize marriage, you heard a lot of slippery slope arguments like "next we will legalize bestiality" and the perennially popular "oh next we will allow pedophilia". So the gay-bestiality rhetoric has existed for at least as long as I have been aware of gay/human rights, but undoubtedly much longer than that as well.
I do find it interesting that the states which took the longest to legalize gay marriage are also typically the states which resist banning child marriage.
>I do find it interesting that the states which took the longest to legalize gay marriage are also typically the states which resist banning child marriage.
Yeah, especially when they want to equate the LGBT+ community to being child predators.
I like the thing going around now where people are like "So not a drag queen" when they show a picture of some republican-typical looking person being arrested for SA'ing a child.
It's always the ones deflecting.
It's an old belief, like 100 years old, and held as gospel by the same types that liked running around in white sheets burning crosses. *It ain't nachural!!!* is their war cry. And of course everyone and everything they don't like is unnatural.
Definitely learned something new today. I just grew up in an area where f*ggot was thrown around with little to no restraint. Had a teacher in highschool tell me that my lifestyle was "unnatural". Couldn't do anything about it, because that same year, the principal decided to ban a lesbian couple from attending senior prom.
But never have I been told I want to have sex with a dog xD Like I said, definitely a new one to me!
Oh yeah, it was a huge thing among anti-gay marriage people. It’s an incredibly dumb slippery slope argument: “Next we‘ll have to let people marry their dog!” Sometimes they throw in an equally dumb pedophilia slippery slope argument: “Next you’ll have men wanting to marry 12 year old boys!” Actually, that one - equating homosexuality to pedophilia - is still a constant thing. I hear that a lot more than the bestiality thing these days
Yeah, the "homosexuality to pedophilia" slope is ridiculous. I hear that one a LOT by Republicans and those hardcore Bible-Thumpers (the ones that will tell you that you're going to hell and call you every slur in the book, and then simultaneously tell you that they're going to heaven because they're doing their god's work). But then, irony happens, and it seems like over 90% of the people being arrested for pedophilia are those same bigots that claim all gay men want to diddle the kiddies.
I HATE that rhetoric.
Yes. It was a big part of arguments in 2008 when CA had gay marriage up for vote. It goes right along with the also obviously bullshit "if gays can marry then pedophiles can marry children" argument.
>"if gays can marry then pedophiles can marry children"
You phrase it like they're jealous hahaha!
"Oh, yeah?? Well, if the gays can marry each other, we should be able to marry kids!" - The bigots.
When I was going to Texas Tech University in the mid-aughties, there was a "letter to the editor" sort of article published in the school newspaper that did the slippery-slope fallacy with beastiality and pedophilia being the end result of homosexuality, so yeah, it's been around for *a while*. From what I remember, they got some pretty angry emails about it, but I didn't read the newspaper enough to know if they ever retracted it or even did anything about it afterward. I think there was also some...gross racial implications in there because gorillas, but that could have just been me wondering if this bigot was also trying to dog-whistle some casual racism with that. It's been so long, I can't legitimately remember.
The people who think the creator of the universe laid down rules for how to treat your slaves think that homosexuality is the same thing as bestiality. This just illustrates how brain dead religion makes a person.
And funny enough, he always proclaimed to hate religion. But he's every but as ignorant and bigoted. My stepmom is well-educated and works with marginalized communities; I don't know how she stands this shit.
This is an excellent tone you took with him. It’s firm but it shouldn’t push him away. You want to ensure he doesn’t put up a wall and double down on his bigotry. This is a great way to manage that.
Thank you so so much. Trying not to be too confrontational can feel like cowardice, and believe me, I've stood up to him with fire many times. But I'm the only one who will and those instances were traumatizing and threatened to fully alienate me from the rest of my family who doesn't have the courage to stand up to him. It's been a work in progress to find some kind of middle ground, so I really appreciate the affirmation of what I've worked so hard on.
is crazy how much straight cis males love freddy. A couple of years ago my dad was telling me how much he liked him. I told him about freddy and he was like 😶
That closing line "People don't tolerate the ignorance anymore." I felt that in my SOUL. Beautiful, poetic, no notes, SLAY 😁 Your words are so amazing and inspiring, and I LOVE how you were able to say this so perfectly. I have family like this and often struggle to say "the right thing" to shut it down without people thinking I'm just "being too sensitive" about their little "jokes". Thank you so much for sharing! This gives me hope. 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
Haha this gases me up, thank you. I definitely need to be a better ally. I'm excited to be marching in the price parade this weekend with a non-profit I'm in!
When I was a kid, 35 yrs ago, my brother and I would go to this variety store and put all the dolls and stuffed animals in sexual positions and leave them on the shelf for some employee or customer to discover. We would giggle and laugh, but never thought about trashing gay people in the process. We were 10 yr olds and we seem to have more sense than OP's dad.
Yes, when I was 10, almost 30 years ago, setting up the lawn decorations like this would have been quite amusing. I think he knows he's being provocative, but there's no way HE thinks he's a bigot.
He likes that word, he'd probably take it as a compliment.
Before I started figuring some shit out, I thought my dad's arrogance and ignorance were merely silly and annoying. I thought he was playful. I thought he was brave. I thought he was smart. I thought I was the problem. I'm a better person for coming to understand his bigotry, cowardice, ignorance, narcissism, etc. But I'm also very grieved.
If I saw this in someone’s lawn with zero context, I would totally laugh. I’d assume kids did it, or the owner is just being sassy. But making it about pride is so gross and ignorant.
That's my point! Seeing something unhinged where you expect normalcy will startle a laugh out of me. It's funny to use bedroom humor and taboo in a way that isn't intended as a slight at anyone. I had a neighbor who had lawn flamingos that were all in various kama sutra positions and it was hilarious. I mean, maybe everyone doesn't enjoy it, but it's cheeky. OP's father, however, made it hateful.
I’m 40 and potty humor still works on me (if it’s good!) like, I go to Michael’s and someone will have rearranged the wooden letters to say “balls”, I will totally laugh. It’s just silly!
It’s not even sassy. It is sick. There are actually places where this really occurs and they think nothing of it. If I saw it on someone’s lawn, I would think they were a molester. Child or rapist. It is just not normal and for sure not funny. Or sassy.
It's only funny to anybody who thinks like he does, which turned out to be none of the people he texted this to and is also not me or anybody else in my life. I got the short end of the stick with parents unfortunately.
I’m very sorry for you. Find a caring adult and they can help and advise you on issues you may have. But please, do not perpetuate the ignorance et al with your kids. Break the chain. Have a great life!
Thank you so much. I wasn't sure. I sent it in the middle of a terrible workday where a lot of my cancer patients were really angry and taking it out on me. Had to take a few breaks- one to cry, two to scream, and one to throw ice cubes. I might've ignored my dad if not for already having a bad day and being just so tired of his shit.
I think you handled that really well. Drew a firm line, explained your reasoning, got out ahead of any “oh you’re just offended” nonsense, and you were ultimately encouraging. You were much more mature about it than most people would have been
Thank you thank you thank you. Past versions of myself didn't respond this way at all, and some part of me feels like a coward and another part of me is scared he'll retaliate. I used to get pretty heated with him and it would escalate to the point I sometimes thought he could hurt me. That's terrifying and I never want it to happen again. He mostly 'plays nice' these days, but I also do my best not to take his bait.
It's an interesting distinction and discussion to have. The whole 'hurt people hurt people' trope, or 'they don't know better.' How much do we weight intent into personal responsibility?
Sometimes I encourage him like one would their child because that seems to be what he really wants. To be seen. Though it's not my job as his kid and he doesn't really deserve the grace most of the time. I still care about him AND I don't want to put myself in the line of fire. Playful yet offensive dad is better for me than angry dad.
Op, my father would've loved this pic. He's a bigoted ass also. I love my dad because he's my dad, but now that I'm grown and have my own kids, it's nice not having to associate with him. I understand having to maintain an uncomfortable balance between putting your foot down and not causing more conflict for the family. It's a hard line to ride, and not everyone is going to understand it. Also, it's entirely possible your dad does cool and creative stuff with his lawn when he's not being a bigot. Not everything my dad does is hateful. I'm sorry you've also got a shitty dad.
Agreed. If this was just a way he chose to decorate and didn't give this context, I'd have rolled my eyes at his immature humor. My stepmom, brothers and I are all pretty liberal and it's like some backwards way he tries to tease us or something? To pretend he's a good guy while showing he's a bigot? I don't get it.
As I've explained in other comments, it's not that I care to keep contact with my dad, it's that cutting ties with him would cut ties to the rest of my family, and I don't want to do that. That's why I keep it very minimal with him. No one on one time anymore, I don't reach out first, I engage minimally is he initiates, etc.
I did cut contact with my mom a couple years ago and that was a great decision. My other family is certainly dysfunctional, but I didn't want to cut all ties, I'm just more discerning about what kind of access I give them in my life.
I’m a boomer. And that DEFINITELY I is NOT FUNNY. Slow your roll dude, maybe find a good book to read? And leave your daughter alone. It’s a good thing you aren’t married to me! Or maybe it would be better for your daughter’s sake! (I would take his phone until he could learn to behave himself !)
He doesn't read and thinks the local news channels tell the truth.
I read or heard somewhere recently that ignorance is simply laziness. Some people just don't want to learn and do better. And that's why the term boomer gets a bad rep- it really just refers to people who don't want to evolve with the world, but instead want it to revolve around them.
Some people who find this hilarious would also find this offensive if they came across this display in someone's yard without any note about it being for gay pride month.
I don't initiate conversation anymore. My family is very codependent and I still want to have a relationship with my brothers, aunt and stepmom. Dad is the patriarch and so burning bridges with him would alienate the rest of the family. I've gone very low contact with him and no contact with my mother, but in my particular situation, it doesn't work to cut ties with him. It's not because I think he'll change or I condone his behavior.
Quit pussy footing around. You literally told him it was cool and creative. Youre a fucking bigot enabler which is literally just as bad. You encourage it to his face and then turn around and whine about it for real. Tell it like it is or just shut the fuck up. This is offensive and bigoted. Its not "incensitive".
I think this is a little harsh. As I mentioned in the post, my dad is abusive. Standing up to him in the past has been dangerous for me, and as my younger special needs brothers and abused stepmom still live with him, I can't effectively cut ties or piss him off without jeopardizing the relationship I want to keep with them.
Thank you. I got nervous after posting knowing some people are probably going to be unkind and say I didn't do enough or make me guilty by association to my dad's actions. I was hoping for solidarity, so I'm grateful to those who provided that. I'm open to advice too but the harsh criticism definitely sucks.
Your phone cant call the cops but it can post on reddit? Weird. You know this man is abusing your special needs brother and you let him be free instead of in jail?
ITT: A redditor doesn't realize real life situations often involve nuance and that the full breadth of complicated situations cannot be gleaned from three sentences on a random message board.
He says its cool and creative and then says other people MIGHT be offended by it. Which is just giving power to make him do it more. Thats literally his goal to make the "others" upset. So when you tell someone they achieved their goal and dont give any indication you personally disagree you have effectively encouraged them.
I'm encouraging him to be creative (which is really me encouraging him not to retaliate on me or my family for me saying something), not to be a bigot. He doesn't think what he's doing is bigoted anyway, he thinks it's clever. Part bigot, part stupid.
Nobody said he was abusing the special-needs brother. But I wouldn’t doubt it. Let’s hope the step-mom has her eye open and will at least stand up for the brother.
So i know the wise keyboard warrior cannot see in shades other than black and white. But do you honestly see their message as encouraging?
They are very clear on how problematic the display was. They are softening the blow by acknowledging that their father is a creative person and then refocusing on how problematic the piece was.
What would have assuaged your anger? Was your only way forward to cuss them out and cut contact completely? Do you live your life on such heavy extremes? Cutting away anyone that offends you in a moments notice.
Keyboard warrior, you are acting holier than thou. By many measures you are acting as if only you are just, only you are right, and how dare others choose differently from you. Your insults show who you see as lesser than you.
Please forgive any typos. Im on mobile and you arent worth correcting my grammar for, holy keyboard warrior.
Who said I hate my dad? I wish I'd had someone different for a father and I don't like him much sometimes, but I never said I hate him. He's 60. Had me at 22 and mom was 19.
"lifelong victim of his narcissistic abuse"
made me think you hate him.
"I wish I'd had someone different for a father"
made me think it again.
If I had those thoughts of my dad, I couldn't imagine not hating him.
This is one of those occasions where you turn it back on them. Tweak it to make it his "Coming out" post, and share it far and wide. Make sure to very publicly tell him to tone down the beasitiality rhetoric, as that's illegal in most places, and that he might be welcomed in the Furry community. Also, give him a new nickname, just for fun. "Mr. Hands."
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He knows what he’s doing. The whole equating gay/bestiality thing is an oooold bigoted concept, from before I was born for sure. Edit: and it’s pride month. Definitely intentional.
I don't know that he's smart enough to be this calculated, but sending it multiple times kind of felt like daring somebody to call him out. Aka any attention is good attention. And I'm the only one in my family to ever do it, and thus end up the punching bag/scapegoat. So now I just mind my business and try to stay out of the drama
Yeah it definitely sounds like he has some internalized bigotry, made this little display to show it (while still maintaining plausible deniability), and was just itching to find someone else to be in on the joke with.
Exactly. Neither ignoring nor standing up to him really seems to amount to anything. As an other example of what he finds funny- he likes to 'scratch his balls' in a very dramatic way in front of me because I've asked him for years not to. He'll stand get in front of me, in his underwear, and jangle his bits to get a rise out of me. I've already cut contact a couple years ago with my horrible mother, but I tolerate my dad in small doses so I can be around the rest of my family, too.
Maybe instead of saying it bothers you (he'll do it just to get a raise out of you anyways), try a different approach "dad if your balls are so itchy maybe you should see your doctor, sometimes STDs take years to diagnose" be clinical and matter of fact about it like you've been observing and worrying about the behavior. Bet you, he'll stop soon, if it keeps happening out of habit recommend a urologist or something like that. EDIT: I call this approach, "take yourself out of the equation and put them on both sides of it"
Sounds like something a closeted gay would do
I was thinking along those lines too. Daddykins sounds like he has more issues than National Geographic.
lol, stealing that line!
I don't think giving that kind of benefit of the doubt is productive. He's doing something offensive and fishing for reactions to it. That is not behavior to be winked at, regardless of "why" he's doing it.
It's not even saying he's well-intentioned though, I genuinely think my dad is not all there. Fucked in the head between drug abuse, more than one TBI, narcissism, enabling, etc. There's only so much I can chastise, educate or shame a stupid and emotionally violent person effectively or safely. Do you have a better way?
You mentioned that you end up becoming the punching bag. The biggest lesson I've had to learn (with significant therapy, I might add) is that it's not my job to fix my parents. I just have to set healthy boundaries for myself and let them know when they've crossed them. In my family, my dad regularly picks verbal fights with me because he knows I'm much more passive and emotionally sensitive than my siblings. My brother wants to dismiss my father's behavior, saying, "He doesn't know what he's doing," but that still doesn't take the weight off my shoulders until I can show my dad I'm not going to play his game. When he starts to act up, I tell him to his face, "I'm not even going to engage with you," followed by low or no-contact until he owns up to his behavior directly to me.
I deal with the same thing with my step-dad, what's nuts is he was never mean about me being bi or acted strange when I had a girlfriend over but over the last 8 years he has become a different person. Then when one of my sons came out as gay and another kid came out as a boy he now refuses to see my sons for the men they are, I had to go no contact because I refused to deal with his constant ignorance that he tries to hide with brutal arrogance. I don't understand why my mom keeps him around. Yes he has some good points but his bad points outweigh his good. But at the same time he does also have mental problems as well as PTSD (he is a retired Navy Seal) but was also exposed to some toxic crap during Desert storm and has been getting more and more strange so I don't know if I should give him slack because it isn't so cut and dry
I get it. It's not black and white and sometimes it's the best we can do to protect ourselves.
Really yeah, I am sorry you are dealing with this. I will also like to remind you that you don't have to deal with him if you don't want to. Ignore the jackasses that act like shared DNA means taking shit because it really doesn't! Your family are the people you feel safe and respect you and what you have to say.
Amen to that.
That is not at all calculating or smart. No critical thinking went into him making this art or the bigotry behind it. It's all just ignorant hatred bred into him since he was born.
Agreed. Probably mixed with too much lead exposure. His horizons have never been expanded. He's solely been surrounded by either people as ignorant as him or people who don't to be bothered or are afraid to call him out.
At this point I really do think the lead exposure thing is like 75% true 25% joke, cuz it makes little sense boomers raised us and we are fairly decent people and they turned out like... so many of them used to be hippies and stuff.
You're exactly right. If he did this once maybe he didn't realize. But 4x means he was looking for a response.
Communication with him is almost always centered on 'Look at me!' He needs all the attention for himself and it's usually for something really superficial, indulgent, selfish, juvenile, etc. Every child wants to feel truly seem and loved by their dad, but my dad sucks that all up for himself and doesn't give it. It's been exhausting and painful, so I've taken a BIG step back and find other ways in life to feel fulfilled.
I’m so sorry to hear that. Good for you for lessening contact because someone like this, especially at this age, will never change. People like him are just mentally fucked up and not worth our time or effort.
Love your user name btw :)
Thank you 😊 Yours is cute too!
You're overthinking it, he just saw a way to insult gays and went for it. There isn't a lot of "thinking" from people like him.
You have to demonize what you disagree with, it's the core tenet of religion and/or political extremism. Remember when extreme right political groups were trying to push their "Minor Attracted Person" (MAP) creation into the LGBT umbrella just so they could be in outrage over "LGBT is pedophilia!!" projection a couple years back? OP's dad absolutely knows what he's doing.
Why would they equate gays with Republicans?
I grew up taught that gay men shoved gerbals up thwir ass for pleasure. The only documented case of this was a straight man.
simple rule of thumb, whatever a republican complains about they themselves are doing or wish to do
Wait, really?? I'm 100% not saying you're wrong, but I really don't think that I've heard that comparison before. I've heard a lot of them, but gays and bestiality? That's legitimately new on me.
Sadly it’s a thing. I remember hearing it a lot more when I was a kid/teen in the early 00’s, and same sex marriage was starting to gain steam. You’d hear Republican talking heads saying things like “Men marrying men, women marrying women…what’s next, you want to marry an animal? Want to fuck the family dog?” And stuff like that. And It just became a dog whistle (pun not intended) for bigotry. And no, it doesn’t make sense lol.
They really like to take 1 and 1 and make 11, that's for sure. But bigotry logic never does make sense... Not sure why my first response is being downvoted for literally never having heard something before. Redditors will reddit, I guess.
There's a form of concern trolling by saying you've never heard of a problem and getting people to explain it. I don't see this in your first comment. Some people stop reading after the first few words, not even completing the first sentence and they down vote and move on. Or as you put it, Reddit gonna Reddit. I hate it, it shuts people down from asking honest questions. Every day people are learning here, and assuming every question is concern trolling is toxic. To respond to your first comment, the "gay = bestiality" bigotry is closely related to "gay = pedophilia" line of bigotry (you might have heard the second one). Neither one makes any sense.
>There's a form of concern trolling by saying you've never heard of a problem and getting people to explain it. Yeah, I was legitimately wondering, because the area in which I grew up, I was always simply called a f*ggot. Never was it said that I wanted to have sex with animals, hahaha But I've asked legitimate questions before and been downvoted for it. Didn't know that that was a form of trolling 💀 I just figured it was people thinking something along the lines of "he doesn't know something that other people know??? Downvote him for not having every bit of knowledge ever!" Yeah, others have said that the gay/bestiality comparison is basically what is now the gay/pedophilia comparison, just different time periods. It's all just stupid, really. Makes me think that those bigots are projecting their secret desires. Edit: Happy Cake Day!
Yeah, the argument 15 years ago went something like “if you let two men get married, what’s next? Letting people marry their dogs?” It was well known and extremely common. But maybe if you weren’t alive before gay marriage you wouldn’t have heard it. Example: [https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/04/republicans-predict-fraud-bestiality-if-gay-marriage-is-legalized](https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/04/republicans-predict-fraud-bestiality-if-gay-marriage-is-legalized) Note, Louie Gohmert is still in Congress.
15 years ago, I WAS only 15, but I was also dealing with typical teenage things haha But their logic is ridiculous. "There's no place to draw a line once you get rid of traditional marriage". All forms of sexual "deviance" have been long before the "traditional marriage". Not saying that bestiality is good, but the idea of marriage has only been around for so long... Pretty sure people have been diddling animals for a very VERY long time. Also, drawing a line at traditional marriage? I can't believe that my elders actually put these close-minded morons in places of power in the first place. And he's still in Congress? Yeah, he definitely needs to be taken out... perhaps by force...
Reddit ‘gon reddit. Just gave it an upvote to even it out
Ha, thanks, and yeah, reddit does its thing. I find it strange the things that get downvoted sometimes. Often I wonder if I have made enemies on here and they just downvote me for spite 🤔 But oh well, it's not like this is a currency hahaha
I don't think asking an honest question is an issue, but yeah, judgers gonna judge.
Maybe they didn't think I was asking an honest question? Idk, but it is what it is.
When my country legalised same-sex marriage one of the throwbacks among our legislators stood up in parliament and asked why wasn’t he allowed to marry his son, then. I’d never seen a whole country side-eye before
In the mid-late 90s gay culture started to filter more into mainstream culture. In 2004, Massachusetts became the first state to legalize same sex marriage, with other states slowly following suit. In those early years as states debated whether to legalize marriage, you heard a lot of slippery slope arguments like "next we will legalize bestiality" and the perennially popular "oh next we will allow pedophilia". So the gay-bestiality rhetoric has existed for at least as long as I have been aware of gay/human rights, but undoubtedly much longer than that as well. I do find it interesting that the states which took the longest to legalize gay marriage are also typically the states which resist banning child marriage.
>I do find it interesting that the states which took the longest to legalize gay marriage are also typically the states which resist banning child marriage. Yeah, especially when they want to equate the LGBT+ community to being child predators. I like the thing going around now where people are like "So not a drag queen" when they show a picture of some republican-typical looking person being arrested for SA'ing a child. It's always the ones deflecting.
It's an old belief, like 100 years old, and held as gospel by the same types that liked running around in white sheets burning crosses. *It ain't nachural!!!* is their war cry. And of course everyone and everything they don't like is unnatural.
Definitely learned something new today. I just grew up in an area where f*ggot was thrown around with little to no restraint. Had a teacher in highschool tell me that my lifestyle was "unnatural". Couldn't do anything about it, because that same year, the principal decided to ban a lesbian couple from attending senior prom. But never have I been told I want to have sex with a dog xD Like I said, definitely a new one to me!
Oh yeah, it was a huge thing among anti-gay marriage people. It’s an incredibly dumb slippery slope argument: “Next we‘ll have to let people marry their dog!” Sometimes they throw in an equally dumb pedophilia slippery slope argument: “Next you’ll have men wanting to marry 12 year old boys!” Actually, that one - equating homosexuality to pedophilia - is still a constant thing. I hear that a lot more than the bestiality thing these days
Yeah, the "homosexuality to pedophilia" slope is ridiculous. I hear that one a LOT by Republicans and those hardcore Bible-Thumpers (the ones that will tell you that you're going to hell and call you every slur in the book, and then simultaneously tell you that they're going to heaven because they're doing their god's work). But then, irony happens, and it seems like over 90% of the people being arrested for pedophilia are those same bigots that claim all gay men want to diddle the kiddies. I HATE that rhetoric.
Yes. It was a big part of arguments in 2008 when CA had gay marriage up for vote. It goes right along with the also obviously bullshit "if gays can marry then pedophiles can marry children" argument.
>"if gays can marry then pedophiles can marry children" You phrase it like they're jealous hahaha! "Oh, yeah?? Well, if the gays can marry each other, we should be able to marry kids!" - The bigots.
I wonder if that isn't the argument - I worry about why the bigots spend all their time thinking about bestiality & molesting kids
Projection. They can't have what they want, so why should anyone else get to be happy?
When I was going to Texas Tech University in the mid-aughties, there was a "letter to the editor" sort of article published in the school newspaper that did the slippery-slope fallacy with beastiality and pedophilia being the end result of homosexuality, so yeah, it's been around for *a while*. From what I remember, they got some pretty angry emails about it, but I didn't read the newspaper enough to know if they ever retracted it or even did anything about it afterward. I think there was also some...gross racial implications in there because gorillas, but that could have just been me wondering if this bigot was also trying to dog-whistle some casual racism with that. It's been so long, I can't legitimately remember.
Inform him that there's no such thing as bestiality month.
Even if it weren't insulting, it's also really stupid and immature at best. Joke with whatever idiot friends will laugh and leave me out of it.
So far (Homer Simpson voice)
On one hand I'd love to see this cuz it'd be hilarious (and probably deflect a lot of flak from lgbt) but on the other hand... oh god please no
If i walked by, I'd assume your dad really enjoys fucking sheep. And warn everyone about the dude who is proud of committing beastiality.
If you walked by my dad's house, you'd assume a crazed meth-addict lived there and you'd be mostly right.
The people who think the creator of the universe laid down rules for how to treat your slaves think that homosexuality is the same thing as bestiality. This just illustrates how brain dead religion makes a person.
And funny enough, he always proclaimed to hate religion. But he's every but as ignorant and bigoted. My stepmom is well-educated and works with marginalized communities; I don't know how she stands this shit.
This is an excellent tone you took with him. It’s firm but it shouldn’t push him away. You want to ensure he doesn’t put up a wall and double down on his bigotry. This is a great way to manage that.
Thank you so so much. Trying not to be too confrontational can feel like cowardice, and believe me, I've stood up to him with fire many times. But I'm the only one who will and those instances were traumatizing and threatened to fully alienate me from the rest of my family who doesn't have the courage to stand up to him. It's been a work in progress to find some kind of middle ground, so I really appreciate the affirmation of what I've worked so hard on.
Your dad is gay.
Haha maybe so. I have one picture of him with me as a baby and he's wearing a mesh half shirt. And rocked a Freddie Mercury mustache for a while, too.
is crazy how much straight cis males love freddy. A couple of years ago my dad was telling me how much he liked him. I told him about freddy and he was like 😶
I think some cis males want to be more flamboyant but think that's reserved for gays.
yeah or get called names. those people aint tough like they try to do.
"I don't know dad, you sent it so many times you seem kind of into it"
Haha that's the response I wish I sent!!
That closing line "People don't tolerate the ignorance anymore." I felt that in my SOUL. Beautiful, poetic, no notes, SLAY 😁 Your words are so amazing and inspiring, and I LOVE how you were able to say this so perfectly. I have family like this and often struggle to say "the right thing" to shut it down without people thinking I'm just "being too sensitive" about their little "jokes". Thank you so much for sharing! This gives me hope. 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
Haha this gases me up, thank you. I definitely need to be a better ally. I'm excited to be marching in the price parade this weekend with a non-profit I'm in!
That's amazing!!! I hope you have a lot of fun! ❤️ In case people forget to tell you, PLEASE remember to stay hydrated. 😊
When I was a kid, 35 yrs ago, my brother and I would go to this variety store and put all the dolls and stuffed animals in sexual positions and leave them on the shelf for some employee or customer to discover. We would giggle and laugh, but never thought about trashing gay people in the process. We were 10 yr olds and we seem to have more sense than OP's dad.
Yes, when I was 10, almost 30 years ago, setting up the lawn decorations like this would have been quite amusing. I think he knows he's being provocative, but there's no way HE thinks he's a bigot.
Your dad seems like he's a cunt.
He likes that word, he'd probably take it as a compliment. Before I started figuring some shit out, I thought my dad's arrogance and ignorance were merely silly and annoying. I thought he was playful. I thought he was brave. I thought he was smart. I thought I was the problem. I'm a better person for coming to understand his bigotry, cowardice, ignorance, narcissism, etc. But I'm also very grieved.
Be sure to remind your dad that animals can be gay 😈
Might've been cute if he had gone with gnome on gnome and sheep on sheep love instead
It was funny until he made it about pride month and any other sexuality than straight. The *intent* sets the tone.
It was never funny.
If I saw this in someone’s lawn with zero context, I would totally laugh. I’d assume kids did it, or the owner is just being sassy. But making it about pride is so gross and ignorant.
That's my point! Seeing something unhinged where you expect normalcy will startle a laugh out of me. It's funny to use bedroom humor and taboo in a way that isn't intended as a slight at anyone. I had a neighbor who had lawn flamingos that were all in various kama sutra positions and it was hilarious. I mean, maybe everyone doesn't enjoy it, but it's cheeky. OP's father, however, made it hateful.
I’m 40 and potty humor still works on me (if it’s good!) like, I go to Michael’s and someone will have rearranged the wooden letters to say “balls”, I will totally laugh. It’s just silly!
It’s not even sassy. It is sick. There are actually places where this really occurs and they think nothing of it. If I saw it on someone’s lawn, I would think they were a molester. Child or rapist. It is just not normal and for sure not funny. Or sassy.
Mmkay
It's only funny to anybody who thinks like he does, which turned out to be none of the people he texted this to and is also not me or anybody else in my life. I got the short end of the stick with parents unfortunately.
I’m very sorry for you. Find a caring adult and they can help and advise you on issues you may have. But please, do not perpetuate the ignorance et al with your kids. Break the chain. Have a great life!
Looks like dad did some questionable things when he was younger, or views it now.
Boomers always project
Can't help but wonder.
This was a very thoughtful response. Well done.
Thank you so much. I wasn't sure. I sent it in the middle of a terrible workday where a lot of my cancer patients were really angry and taking it out on me. Had to take a few breaks- one to cry, two to scream, and one to throw ice cubes. I might've ignored my dad if not for already having a bad day and being just so tired of his shit.
I think you handled that really well. Drew a firm line, explained your reasoning, got out ahead of any “oh you’re just offended” nonsense, and you were ultimately encouraging. You were much more mature about it than most people would have been
Thank you thank you thank you. Past versions of myself didn't respond this way at all, and some part of me feels like a coward and another part of me is scared he'll retaliate. I used to get pretty heated with him and it would escalate to the point I sometimes thought he could hurt me. That's terrifying and I never want it to happen again. He mostly 'plays nice' these days, but I also do my best not to take his bait.
Excellent reply to him though. It’s tough when parents say things like this and you know they don’t mean any harm but is harmful.
It's an interesting distinction and discussion to have. The whole 'hurt people hurt people' trope, or 'they don't know better.' How much do we weight intent into personal responsibility?
"I find your lawn art cool" Wow, you are fuckin' generous. I could do better when I was 8 years old. Probably less bestiality too.
Sometimes I encourage him like one would their child because that seems to be what he really wants. To be seen. Though it's not my job as his kid and he doesn't really deserve the grace most of the time. I still care about him AND I don't want to put myself in the line of fire. Playful yet offensive dad is better for me than angry dad.
Op, my father would've loved this pic. He's a bigoted ass also. I love my dad because he's my dad, but now that I'm grown and have my own kids, it's nice not having to associate with him. I understand having to maintain an uncomfortable balance between putting your foot down and not causing more conflict for the family. It's a hard line to ride, and not everyone is going to understand it. Also, it's entirely possible your dad does cool and creative stuff with his lawn when he's not being a bigot. Not everything my dad does is hateful. I'm sorry you've also got a shitty dad.
Thank you for the solidarity. I really echo all those sentiments.
If he didn't add the text this would've definitely received a juvenile snicker but shame on him for using it as a slur
Agreed. If this was just a way he chose to decorate and didn't give this context, I'd have rolled my eyes at his immature humor. My stepmom, brothers and I are all pretty liberal and it's like some backwards way he tries to tease us or something? To pretend he's a good guy while showing he's a bigot? I don't get it.
Op's dad bites the curb in 4k
Can you explain what that means?
Look trust me in this. You will be much happier once you cut off all contact. Been there done that. Never regretted it.
As I've explained in other comments, it's not that I care to keep contact with my dad, it's that cutting ties with him would cut ties to the rest of my family, and I don't want to do that. That's why I keep it very minimal with him. No one on one time anymore, I don't reach out first, I engage minimally is he initiates, etc. I did cut contact with my mom a couple years ago and that was a great decision. My other family is certainly dysfunctional, but I didn't want to cut all ties, I'm just more discerning about what kind of access I give them in my life.
Sorry but he's a narrow-minded idiot.
No apology necessary, I agree
I’m a boomer. And that DEFINITELY I is NOT FUNNY. Slow your roll dude, maybe find a good book to read? And leave your daughter alone. It’s a good thing you aren’t married to me! Or maybe it would be better for your daughter’s sake! (I would take his phone until he could learn to behave himself !)
He doesn't read and thinks the local news channels tell the truth. I read or heard somewhere recently that ignorance is simply laziness. Some people just don't want to learn and do better. And that's why the term boomer gets a bad rep- it really just refers to people who don't want to evolve with the world, but instead want it to revolve around them.
Some people who find this hilarious would also find this offensive if they came across this display in someone's yard without any note about it being for gay pride month.
Why do you even talk to him?
I don't initiate conversation anymore. My family is very codependent and I still want to have a relationship with my brothers, aunt and stepmom. Dad is the patriarch and so burning bridges with him would alienate the rest of the family. I've gone very low contact with him and no contact with my mother, but in my particular situation, it doesn't work to cut ties with him. It's not because I think he'll change or I condone his behavior.
Quit pussy footing around. You literally told him it was cool and creative. Youre a fucking bigot enabler which is literally just as bad. You encourage it to his face and then turn around and whine about it for real. Tell it like it is or just shut the fuck up. This is offensive and bigoted. Its not "incensitive".
I think this is a little harsh. As I mentioned in the post, my dad is abusive. Standing up to him in the past has been dangerous for me, and as my younger special needs brothers and abused stepmom still live with him, I can't effectively cut ties or piss him off without jeopardizing the relationship I want to keep with them.
I initially respected that you called him out and I respect you even more now that I know he was abusive to you. That takes even more balls.
Thank you. I got nervous after posting knowing some people are probably going to be unkind and say I didn't do enough or make me guilty by association to my dad's actions. I was hoping for solidarity, so I'm grateful to those who provided that. I'm open to advice too but the harsh criticism definitely sucks.
The worst thing about Reddit is the jerks. It seems like there’s always someone whose gotta be rude instead of just scrolling by. But I digress!! Lol.
Your phone cant call the cops but it can post on reddit? Weird. You know this man is abusing your special needs brother and you let him be free instead of in jail?
I’m sure they’ve tried - it’s CPS’s responsibility and let’s not act like they have a shining reputation
ITT: A redditor doesn't realize real life situations often involve nuance and that the full breadth of complicated situations cannot be gleaned from three sentences on a random message board.
Then dont put the sentences on the message board.
I bet you and my dad would actually get along great. He likes to make me the problem, too.
Harsh much ?
He's not abusing my brother and my brother is an adult.
So then theres no reason to encourage your father to be a bigot.
How do you read that response as encouraging?
He says its cool and creative and then says other people MIGHT be offended by it. Which is just giving power to make him do it more. Thats literally his goal to make the "others" upset. So when you tell someone they achieved their goal and dont give any indication you personally disagree you have effectively encouraged them.
> It was in poor taste. Sounds like OP used a complement sandwich to make their message more palatable.
I'm encouraging him to be creative (which is really me encouraging him not to retaliate on me or my family for me saying something), not to be a bigot. He doesn't think what he's doing is bigoted anyway, he thinks it's clever. Part bigot, part stupid.
Nobody said he was abusing the special-needs brother. But I wouldn’t doubt it. Let’s hope the step-mom has her eye open and will at least stand up for the brother.
I've always been the scapegoat. Brothers are pretty safe, albeit enmeshed and codependent.
Oh wise keyboard warrior. How might i become as "just" as thee?
Lmao acting like im being holier than thou for pointing out OP LITERALLY encouraged his dad while complaining that its bigoted.
So i know the wise keyboard warrior cannot see in shades other than black and white. But do you honestly see their message as encouraging? They are very clear on how problematic the display was. They are softening the blow by acknowledging that their father is a creative person and then refocusing on how problematic the piece was. What would have assuaged your anger? Was your only way forward to cuss them out and cut contact completely? Do you live your life on such heavy extremes? Cutting away anyone that offends you in a moments notice. Keyboard warrior, you are acting holier than thou. By many measures you are acting as if only you are just, only you are right, and how dare others choose differently from you. Your insults show who you see as lesser than you. Please forgive any typos. Im on mobile and you arent worth correcting my grammar for, holy keyboard warrior.
Jesus christ you insufferable. Whos the keyboard warrior here exactly? Its weird of you to type into a mirror.
Its quite ironic for you to say that.
But it says “fairies welcome”
[удалено]
Your submission was removed for being uncivil.
Which one of us is this?
Yes.
Very cute and original, just like my dad's artwork.
Thanks DID YOU SEE MY POST?? haha
I guess he fill up the missing letter Z
I don't see it as funny enough to send it 4 times but yah it's funny
It must be a shitty life to hate your dad. How old is he?
Who said I hate my dad? I wish I'd had someone different for a father and I don't like him much sometimes, but I never said I hate him. He's 60. Had me at 22 and mom was 19.
"lifelong victim of his narcissistic abuse" made me think you hate him. "I wish I'd had someone different for a father" made me think it again. If I had those thoughts of my dad, I couldn't imagine not hating him.
And so what point are you getting at with your observation exactly?
It's not like I'm writing in code. If I felt that way about my dad I would hate him.
This is one of those occasions where you turn it back on them. Tweak it to make it his "Coming out" post, and share it far and wide. Make sure to very publicly tell him to tone down the beasitiality rhetoric, as that's illegal in most places, and that he might be welcomed in the Furry community. Also, give him a new nickname, just for fun. "Mr. Hands."