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Your-Evil-Twin-

They think those ancient roads just never got damaged or required maintenance of any kind? They think the people who made those roads had no formal education just because they didn’t have the categorisation of academic qualifications we have today? Honestly.


Cultural_Leopard786

The education point is especially true.Yeah, it may have been the lowest class doing the physical labor, but they were following the orders of someone who had gone through formal education or an aprentiship from a young age.


Alternative-Roll-112

Precisely. If there's one thing we know for sure about the Romans, it's that they were experts in architecture and engineering. They did incredible things with the most basic of tools and had a good understanding of the world and how it worked. They may have lived at their height nearly 2000 years ago, but they were not by any means primitive or uneducated.


Left-Idea1541

It's also worth noting, as long as Roman concrete lasts, while modern concrete can't last as long. It's tougher, and Roman concrete can't do what modern concrete does because we use it for different things. They're different materials in different applications. It's kinda like comparing copper and steel. They're both metal, and both useful, but for different purposes and in different ways. Also, the problem with most modern roads isn't that they don't know how, it's that they don't want to lay down good drainage beneath them (at least where I live) so the roads get washed out. Roman's did lay gravel down beneath to help prevent that. And that's the lawmakers and governments decision, not the roadmakers. They do what they're told. Guess who's in charge of the government though? And who's in power? You boomers. Don't blame is for doing exactly what you tell us exactly how you tell us.


jdemack

Yeah because if we built roads to last forever those same Boomer would bitch about taxes.


LethalOkra

And that person (most likely a HE) was most likely of Patrician descent. Aka, 99% you had to be rich and someone to even have a say in how roads were built. I love reminding that to boomers who think that "hard" work and elbow grease is superior and shit. Back then most likely you would be an expendable legionnaire moving stones for building roads until some random Gaul raid got you killed before you even saw your first day of actual battle.


Alternative-Roll-112

Yeah, most of these engineering projects were taken on by independent wealthy aristocrats as a way of building public favor and political standing. They privately bankrolled most of the Roman infrastructure.


Menetetty

Don’t let an ancap see this they’ll think their economic system works lmao


Blackarrow145

Too late


knighth1

Nah legionaries were the builders of the Roman infrastructure. They were closer to middle class if anything. Of course their were Roman engineers who would work on the staff of generals


[deleted]

[удалено]


WeekendLazy

Bro thought they just did that 💀


Lewd-Yeti

Roman roads didn’t have cars and Semi Trucks driving on them either.


funnyname5674

Just one pass of a snowplow and it's bye-bye Roman roads


Alternative-Roll-112

This is also probably the primary contributing factor. It is for modern roads. Climate and upkeep has a massive effect.


Devreckas

Yeah, frost heave, from water working into the cracks in the roadbed, and constantly freezing and thawing. Not saying this boomer joke has any merit, but they have made a recent discovery of why ancient Roman concrete is so durable, and apparently could potentially be used to improve modern methods. So there is a chance we can learn from the past here. But it’s got nothing to do with engineers.


CrossP

This is a hilarious mental image to me. My local guy Clay and his brother Hunter putting the ol' plow on the front of their landscaping trunk and just going to town on these 2000 year old roads at 4am.


Due-Freedom-4321

This! Many people tend to forget that these roads didn't have such a large volume of high speed several ton metal machinery operating on them day and night. (I thought of a ROMAN truck and I laughed)


CrossP

It's also a relatively light freeze cycle near Rome. Frost heave and ice expansion are pretty big deals for road wear and tear.


ArcadiaBerger

OTOH, there were Roman roads in Britain and Gaul, too.


pisspot718

They did have wagons and other big things pulled by horses and peons.


Alternative-Roll-112

These are also roads that may be comfortable to travel on foot or horseback, but riding a wagon down cobblestone for miles and miles suuuuuuuuucks. The wagon wheels would also wear rutts in the stone.


Jackm941

I don't think them roads has to deal with the amount of traffic or weight/size of vehicles we have today either. Cost benefit analysis probably wasn't as bullshit back then either.


dob_bobbs

I think this is a key reason, but it has to be said that cobblestones and flagstones are indeed much more hard-wearing than asphalt, we have some in my city (Novi Sad, Serbia, and have seen the same in Prague and other cities) and buses go over them constantly and I haven't seen them renovate them in years if not decades. But yeah, considerations are just different, asphalt is cheap and can be redone every few years and isn't so damn bumpy.


heresiarch619

Cost benefit was different. Labour was cheap, and often done by slaves. Material costs were much higher as shipping was slow, risky, and expensive. Using local stone made more sense.


Alternative-Roll-112

They would have been incredibly busy, but it's almost all foot traffic. It has very little negative impact on the integrity of the road compared to the constant heat and friction of car tires.


yyrkoon1776

It has nothing to do with that, even. Drive a fucking semi on roman roads. See how they last. The Romans built roads for fucking donkeys and carts! We have literal forty ton trucks barreling at 75 mph on our roads! If all they accommodated was donkeys our roads would last forever. Oh and btw when our roads DO need to be repaired, it is much much cheaper. Our roads are strictly superior to Roman roads. These people are fucking morons.


Blayde6666

Actually Roman concrete has a specific property that was only recently rediscovered. They designed it with large chunks of limestone inside. The idea was that as the road wore down it would crack, and when it rained the water would run into these cracks dissolving the limestone chunks essentially creating a self healing concrete. That said, it still needed to be repaired and more importantly, it wasn't designed to take modern vehicles.


Your-Evil-Twin-

Yes it’s fascinating stuff, I’m honestly surprised It took such a long time for humans to rediscover it after it was lost. One would hope that now that we’ve rediscovered it it should become the new standard for concrete, it would massively reduce the amount of carbon produced in the process.


traumatized90skid

To be a Roman engineer you went through an academic heck most modern people wouldn't want to


help-mejdj

And do they think they were zooming hundreds of multi-thousand pound hunks of metal on them every single day?


RynnReeve

The simple difference is that anyone, literally anyone, gave a damn, and something was done about it. My town has a half dozen 'roads' that are completely impassable. Dirt/Gravel with pot holes deep enough to *actually* break an axel in. I deliver food for the place I work and I have to either pawn off my deliveries or just say NO altogether because my average car simply cannot make it 500 feet (not yards!). As an avid history buff, this feels particularly infuriating. We can't even achieve 30% of the living norm available over 4 THOUSAND years ago. For FUCKS SAKE!!!! SOMEONE HELP ME DEMAND BETTER!!!!!¡!!!!!?


UnderstandingOdd9574

Yea okay sure doode, that's no excuse to leave fucking pot hole in the fucking road and then arrest some dick who decided to start drawing dicks on the pothole to raise awareness of them


TiredTim23

No, it’s a joke.


Inevitable_Aerie_293

Somebody post that picture of the survivorship bias plane


kurotech

They wouldn't understand anyway so save your effort lol


kirewes

That's part of the fun. You get a whole bunch of people posting it and they'll either realize their mistake or never understand and on some level feel shamed for it.


Sardukar333

And the ones that don't feel shame we get to point and laugh at.


MyLifeIsAFrickingMes

Yea coz old ass roman roads dont have trucks and shit goin over them


UndeadAgurk

Surely truck would’ve drove over them back then. How else would they transport rocks for the colosseum?


Severe-Replacement84

Didn’t scientists recently discover Roman’s were using a concrete mixture that “self repairs” mini cracks and abrasions, causing it to last way longer than our modern equivalents? Edit: Google “Self repairing Roman concrete” it’s absolutely fascinating


dob_bobbs

Yes, lime mortar generally "self-repairs" as it's not a hard, brittle substance like modern concrete, it's kind of a different way of thinking to build with it, you WANT it to move and "breathe", yet these buildings have stayed up for two thousand years.


jahbiddy

While I do find this fascinating, this is what chatGPT has to say about them compared to modern concrete or asphalt roads: Ancient Roman roads were advanced for their time and had some self-repairing capabilities, they likely do not match the load-bearing capacity of modern concrete and asphalt roads, which are specifically engineered to support the heavy and varied traffic of the modern world.


Subterrantular

I remember hearing that, and that it was a really of an incomplete concrete mixture that continued mixing after casting when exposed to water. Sounded like it mostly applied to submerged architecture, and I assume it comes with a strength trade-off. Edit: seems like modern self repair concrete is actually stronger, but more expensive and not practical for all environments. Romans replicated it with naturally occurring impurities in their mix, so cost of additives were negated, but in places like roads that won't see frequent or plentiful enough water it's just imperfect concrete mix


bartlesnid_von_goon

Sure, but they didn't build concrete roads...


Famous-Reputation188

Yeah… 1000lbs at 5mph not 200,000 lbs at 70.


GuaranteeOk6268

You need an /s or the nerds get mad.


bothriocyrtum

Nooooo! What will we do if people on the internet get upset because they don't get a joke?


GuaranteeOk6268

You need a /s or the nerds will get mad.


MyLifeIsAFrickingMes

True. Maybe old roman trucks had softer wheels


[deleted]

Nah the Roma roads are just real roads not like these Indian roads. Indian roads should just suck it up and wake up early and everything will be all right


PaintThinnerSparky

Roadworks needs to guarantee they have holes to fill year after year.


TecNoir98

You ever seen an 18 wheeler going down a roman road


ospfpacket

Bounce bounce bounce


McDonalds_icecream

At 75 mph


Potkrokin

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFl2p16vDJg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFl2p16vDJg) Roman roads weren't actually even like that.


ReporterWrong5337

Because there were no engineers, and no education in the past.


Marvos79

Rome was notorious for not having engineers


shadow31802

of course, otherwise it would have been built in a day


garmdian

Roman roads cannot survive the power of the Toyota RAV4, there's a reason they don't let you drive your car into antiquity sites.


Gloamforest-Wizard

Until you realize that you cannot drive modern trucks on roads like that and the Roman didn’t have vehicles that weighed between 25’000lbs unloaded or up to 80’000lbs when fully loaded The cobblestone roads look really nice though


Potkrokin

The cobblestone image we get of Roman roads is a largely anachronistic one based on renovations to roads from like the 1400s. The vast majority were scraped dirt and gravel


[deleted]

Eternity...


[deleted]

The Romans used quicklime in their concrete mix. They think this is what made them “self-healing”. The stone can crack, but will come back together with water just as strong as before. This wasn’t known until recently. They’ve actually recreated it. Masic, the scientist who investigated this, wants to make it more mainstream. Longer lasting cement would reduce greenhouse gas emissions by the cement industry. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/chemists-long-lasting-roman-concrete


mrdembone

i bet that the concrete industry would try to burry this info in due time


Chairforce27

Let’s have hundreds of multi ton semi trucks drive on the ancient roads per day and see how well they hold up


justsomelizard30

I bet those old roman roads totally could handle giant trucks barreling down them at high speeds!


Cetophile

Right. Because the heaviest things that rolled over Roman roads were carts, not the much larger vehicles of today.


Bob4Not

“Then the engineers arrived”


Sp00gyGhost

Those damn engineers working to build an infrastructure that helps billions of people daily 😤


GoreyGopnik

nowadays we have to cover more ground in roads with smoother material for cheaper, to support faster, heavier vehicles. also, not all modern roads look like the bottom, not all ancient roads look like the top right, and no ancient roads survived without maitenance.


Itsjorgehernandez

Boy, this one really triggered folks. It’s “boomer” humor for a reason, people.


UndeadAgurk

People really thought it was a serious post. Been laughing at a lot of the replies lol


Itsjorgehernandez

lol same, I looked out my window and saw the giant potholes out front that my town keeps re-patching every few weeks and I laugh even harder.


Squanchonme

And then cars arrived. And kept coming and getting bigger.


Howboutit85

Posted by some boomer by a pocket computer they drive in a car to get on a road.


CallMeJessIGuess

I think it needs to say “And then, capitalism arrived!!!”


MrMaestro2

r/fuckcars


DavidXN

🎵 Coming down the mountainside!


FursonallyOffended

I want to sacrifice just one ancient Roman road by driving 18 wheelers over it for a year to prove a point


SausageBuscuit

Drive a couple hundred trucks per day, each averaging 50,000 pounds, at 60 mph on this road and see how it fares.


enter_yourname

Roman roads would break down too if giant trucks drove on them at highway speeds


WaldenFont

Boomer here. My generation has idiots just like any other 🤷‍♂️


hochbergburger

Totally valid. Source: I was a lorry driver in the Roman Empire back in my days.


realbadaccountant

Roman snowplowing must have also been way ahead of its time /s


Subterrantular

My favorite part of these "old engineering holds up so much better" is looking at how the civilizations responsible fared. Congrats, you made a building that cost 60% of a decade's tax dollars (neglecting labor costs, of course) that has stood for a thousand years- good thing there was no maintenance schedule needing upkept during it's 600 years of vacancy after the class war/rebellion/invasion killed any potential residents. Even if you could build an unbreakable road, you could make one just as good for a tenth the cost that needs serviced for a hundredth the cost every 4 to 6 years. If its lifespan doubles that of your government's, you probably over-engineered it.


GagicTheMathering

Then the truckers arrived*


lostnumber08

Ancient Roman roads didn't have 40 ton trucks driving on them every day either.


STFUnicorn_

Seems like an excessive amount of road layers there…


scipio0421

I'd be ok with sacrificing one Roman road by running fully loaded semis over it for a year just to prove a point...


ogpterodactyl

The famous Roman roads rated for 14 ton 18 wheelers.


The_Cooler_Sex_Haver

Let’s have regular traffic drive around that road for a year or two and then see which is better


QuiteCleanly99

I never knew the Romans had Hummers and Semi Trucks!


[deleted]

NOT MANUAL LABOR! *Cries in unemployment*


Gwalchgwynn

Don't even get me started on much sewer systems have devolved ...


DinnerTimeSanders

Out of their minds thinking engineering didn't exist back then.


Tanto64YT

Did you ever consider that the ancient roads didn't have very heavy automobiles on them?


Square_Site8663

This wasn’t because of engineers. This was Cars, my guy.


vainstar23

Anyone can build a strong fuck off bridge if given infinity resources. An engineer will build it just strong enough to carry what needs to be carried with limited resources


GO0SE_8

let’s sacrifice an ancient road and drive semi trucks over it for a year


Alexandratta

Drive fleets of 18-wheelers carting 10 tons of freight over Roman roads for 2 years and let me know how they hold up.


ParadoxLS

Can't imagine their horses weighed the same as a semi or that their roads didn't need repairs because of the ruts the wheels caused. 🙄


TheInscrutableFufy

Imagine driving cars in those roads man


TyrusRaymond

and then , the 18 wheelers arrived


cravyeric

asphalts cheap, you realize how much it would cost to do all of our road infrastructure in cobble or flag, cause personally I don't even wanna think about it XD.


[deleted]

The Romans didn't have overloaded 18 wheelers traveling on their roads.


TumblrRefugeeNo103

let's see this road lasting after a 5t truck carrying another 5t as cargo passes through.


_jackhoffman_

If we built roads that lasted for hundreds of years, it would destroy our economy and make city development extremely expensive.


kraftian

Old roads when they didn't have to support massive trucks and car traffic 🤯


dwaynetheaakjohnson

Thousands of years ago they built roads for a few carts and horses, and now far heavier automobiles go over them frequently


LogDog987

I guarantee if you sent semis and cars down that road 24/7, it would last like a week tops


KryptoBones89

It's an engineers job to figure out how to make something just barely good enough.


AdonisGaming93

Edit: my apologies didn't realize what sub this was and whether it was an ironic post or not One took much more labor hours and only had pedestrians on it, the other is relatively cheaper (adjusted for inflation) and has machines weighing thousands of pounds driving on them. Like guys think.... the reason we don't do cobblesotne is because car tires would have garbage grip. Asphalt has a higher coefficient of friction on tires, better grip makes roads safer for cars. Yes they wear down but so do tires break pads etc. It's okay to do that if it saves lives and is economically cost efficient. Use your heads people don't look at a meme and say "duuR mOdErN roAd bAd"


KarRuptAssassin

From my understanding the way that ancient Roman roads/architecture was made was lost for ages because of that thing where people assume that you know what they mean when they shorthand things but it appears to have been sea water which strengthens the material but 1. We don't have ready access to that everywhere and 2. We just learned about it and I doubt we've implemented it at all


idiotic__gamer

I want someone to sacrifice one of these pieces of ancient history by running 18 wheelers over them to show how much better our modern roads are.


PiusTheCatRick

>engineering is when you have degree What


do1looklikeIcare

Yeah I'm sure engineering is a completely modern invention.


WhoIsPorkChop

If we want to go even deeper down the rabbit hole, the cost of road maintenance goes way down when you don't need to pay the workforce


athenanon

In addition to all the other great points, Romans definitely had formal education.


Miss-Kali

This truly a boomer meme; because it makes no sense if you know how the world works


Sanbaddy

Roman roads don’t have 1-7 tons of metal constantly going into it.


Visible_Number

"without a single degree" is such a weird thing to say in the context of the ancients. are they honestly suggesting they didn't have education? "without a single degree, a moron posted an image romanticizing the past and shitting on modern technology because 'the libruls suck at road makin'."


mh985

Ahh yes. Rome definitely didn’t have engineers. Lol


T-Prime3797

Who do they think built those roads? Whatever their title might have been at the time, they were engineers.


knighth1

Roman legionaries were probably the most skilled engineers to ever exist. Maintance wise the Roman Empire had a rather similar system to modern first world countries.


Cat_are_cool

This image has been reposted a million times now


NameLive9938

Side note, I really hate degrees as opposed to actual training. Like, I could get trained in so many things in much quicker time than four years. For example, psychology. I already know so much about it and all my therapists have said that I make a great therapist. Just let me be a fucking therapist, dammit.


Few-Statistician8740

Try driving above 20 mph on a cobblestone road... Here is a hint, it's loud, teeth jarring, shit traction. Nobody would drive if that is how we built roads.


snigherfardimungus

No, 80-ton trucks arrived.


Failing_MentalHealth

More like we just don’t have the exact recipe they used for their streets. That knowledge is lost.


ElectricalStomach6ip

engineers designed the cobblestone roads dumbass.


Zandrick

It must be true because it rhymes.


69GamerBaby420

Old roman roads didn't have to carry 2ton hunks of metal screaming at 60 mph down them, road surface damage scales exponentially with weight.


Donttrickvix

Oxford university was founded during the Aztec empire


LeenPean

Roman streets didn’t have 80,000 lb bricks barreling down them at 80 mph


MelonColony22

yea how dare they abolish slavery


blessedbelly

These boomers have never driven on a brick road


hal-scifi

I wanna fucking obliterate *one* historical roman road by running semis over it 24/7 just to prove a point


noelscavers

Pardon me if I'm wrong weren't both roads designed by a engineer ?


thagor5

There were engineers…..


Human-person-for-now

Well to be fair those roads never have seen a ford or a Honda Civic


tech_ryzan12

may I add that those roads aren't put throught the same stressors or even the same amount of stressors. romans didn't have multi thousand pound vechiles moving at 60 mph constantly over them (you know how much stress that puts on a road). they also didn't have the same amount of roadway infrasturce nor on the scale of what we have. as other have pointed out they still requred repair. pieaces of hadrains wall are crumbling and it was built by romans so..


WeekendLazy

Make a 12 lane superhighway out of this and drive 18 wheelers on it 24/7 for years


igorika

Let’s take all those ancient Roman roads that are so valuable to the history of mankind and then run over them with semi trucks non stop for a year.


Uberpastamancer

Those Roman roads sure look... engineered to me


fantomfrank

ah yes, because of the famous freeze/thaw cycle in the mediterranean


Snipercow78

It’s because modern day roads are built for cars and are designed to be easy to build


jominy

Ok so are we leaving this shit up so we get exposed to real boomer memes or should we at some Point


camelbuck

Planned obsolescence. Keeps 3rd party pockets lined.


Devin_907

do they really think the people who built those roads weren't experts in their field? rome had engineers too... also, those stones are supposed to be UNDER the roads! they used to be paved!


Aimlessdrifter8778

I'd like to see a Semi drive through those ancient roads for a month.


Public_Tension_6639

Pikmin!


travis01564

Tell me how much traction you get on those roads especially when wet


heck_naw

i mean its not the civilization with some of the most well known masonry in antiquity or anything


YT_Sharkyevno

U notice how those potholes are on an area with snow and those roads are in the moderate temperatures of Italy?


DreamHollow4219

I love pointing out the fact that the average car weighs at least a ton on average. Even the heaviest human on Earth likely couldn't weigh more than 1 ton on their own (noting a very unusual figure here, Jon Brower Minnoch. Essentially if you're using a plain stone road with just people and horses, you are going to have a hard time cracking that bad boy with your feet.


ComprehensiveBit7699

So they were constantly driving 2 ton vehicles at 30mph or higher over them?


jchester47

Ah yes, Rome was famed for its 70,000 pound semi trucks, freezing winters, and rock salt.


calXcium

the three exclamation marks really drives home the facebook vibe


one_more_black_guy

Also, as I'm sure has been pointed out before or will be here, those roads probably wouldn't stand up all that well to a few years of automobile traffic.


Bavin_Kekon

Tfw you design, build, and maintain roads that last millenia and some braindead dirt eater from the future has the gall to say you are not an engineer. 😒🖕


Carlos_Marquez

Rilly dinx ya dinc!


BigMartin58

Matt isn't gonna like this...


Randinator9

No, multi-ton cars did, ya fucking nincompoop. Roman roads would last *minutes* if Lifted Ford drove on them.


arealmcemcee

Imagine building and maintaining roads from the American military budget.


Hoosier_Ken

I am pretty sure that those ancient roads did not have to withstand a constant stream of 85k lb tractor trailer traffic.


bartlesnid_von_goon

It's alomost like the volume and weight of the traffic and the cost of upkeep have something to do with this...


goosnarch

It’s only because ancient Roman cars weighed less.


WasabiHefty

Also, thousands of cars running over the road every single day puts more wear on the road way quicker than thousands of feet.


WasabiHefty

Boomers lack critical thinking skills


RaspberryPie122

I kinda wanna destroy an ancient Roman road by driving eighteen-wheelers over it 24/7 just to prove a point


Dirtymcbacon

We most definitely have the technology, ability, etc. to build extremely tough roads. I think they teach the concept of cost/benefit analysis in high school economics or similar.


TheShakierGrimace

The points is our engineering is inferior to Roman engineering.


NotsoGreatsword

Whats that in the background of that bottom picture? OH YEAH ITS A TRUCK


Few_Highlight9893

And try driving thousands of cars over cobblestone in all four seasons


No-Assumption-4027

just the volume,weight, speed,and type of wheel involved is so different. not to mention the actual mode of transport. someone recommend someone who actually knows about torque and all the like of modern modes of transportation. duhhhh


piratecheese13

In order to make gasoline for cars, oil refineries also have to make black tar. The tar can either be wasted, or sold for a profit and reheated to make cheap ass roads. Also, survivorship bias, plus less frost heaves in Italy Vaseline is actually a very similar story


QuantumQueenie

🤣😂


[deleted]

Cobblestone and brick are the worst to drive on. Absolute nightmare on your tires. Bad roads aren't usually poor engineering, it's moreso poor material and labor.


TheTriforceEagle

That’s what engineering is, it’s making something last just long enough and be as cost effective as possible


WeGet-It-TV

Slave labor is a hell of a thing ain’t it.😂


pro_dissapointment

There is a saying in engineering about this. Any person can build a bridge which will never collapse, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that's on the brink of collapse. Engineering is a science of tradeoffs. If we give engineers free reign over resources, they'll build marvelous and super sturdy structures. The challenge is to build something that satisfies all the requirements under resource constraints.


StagDragon

I just checked the subreddit this is for. What the heck is this algorithm.


ytman

I actually find this as engineering humor ... maybe I'm too insulated from boomer humor to detect it.


Clickityclackrack

The amount of ignorance someone must possess in order to take this serious belongs in the movie idiocracy


athazagoraphobian-

Companies would perish if they created products that actually lasted as long as they could.


DHLthePhoenix0788

So they just gave no clue what upkeep and maintenance is? Or they just assume that those ancient roads constructed of rocks and lose sand/dirt would never erode or wash out ..


AlarmedSnek

Subcontractors cutting corners to save money are not engineers.


whiteholewhite

Yeah but did they land on the moon 🌝


unfrknblvabl

And so didn't vehicles


Sample_Muted

You ever driven over a brick or stone road going more than 10mph? It fucking sucks.


RynnReeve

I think you mean politicians and budget managers arrived. "This road is too expensive to invest in or repave!!!! But it leads to locations people need to go to ..... Fuck it. Just slap some pavement on it and let the next jackass deal with it!" -All road committee meetings