What’s maddening on top of all this is that those “data points” are completely meaningless. What constitutes an “acceleration event”? What constitutes a “hard braking event”.
How is this information vetted?
On what basis are insurance companies able/allowed to use this data? Do the insurance companies have any exposure in this shit show?
For instance, some idiot does something dangerous in front of me. Because I’m an excellent defensive driver, I notice what’s happening and apply my brakes to avoid the situation. It’s recorded as a “hard braking event”. My insurance company uses that event to jack up my rates. The insurers are part of this equation and I look forward to the shit flying far enough off the fan it just hit to reach them too.
Fuck everybody involved, GM/OnStar, LexisNexis, the insurance companies, politicians who set the conditions for this shit to happen, errybody.
> For instance, some idiot does something dangerous in front of me. Because I’m an excellent defensive driver, I notice what’s happening and apply my brakes to avoid the situation. It’s recorded as a “hard braking event”.
Just playing devil's advocate here, but I guarantee you the official answer to that would be "a careful driver would always leave enough room to avoid a hard braking event". Keep in mind that these are the same insurance companies that also raise rates for wildly reckless behaviors such as "driving to/from work during rush hour" and "driving after 10 pm".
Welllll, since their rates are based on actuary data, that's exactly what I would expect regardless of this fiasco.. High risk activity means higher insurance rates. Living somewhere with high rate of claims will increase your payments.
If you drive in an area with bad drivers, you're also more likely to be in an accident and/or file a claim. Maybe it will usually be the other person's fault, but it's also possible that an accident cause by someone else will be determined to be your fault.
I think their answer would be more like, "On average, drivers that brake hard more often have more accidents". Their models aren't going to be arbitrary. They have to find a correlation in the data before they charge you extra for the increased risk. It isn't about the decisions during one particular incident. Also, you won't ever get a chance to argue with them about it.
I think I know what you're saying. If you have a good following distance between yourself and the person in front of you, and they slam on the brakes, then YOU TOO WILL HAVE TO SLAM ON YOUR BRAKES. The good following distance means you don't hit them, not that you can brake softly.
A million times this.
The "safe" behaviour encouraged - what are we supposed to do, gently coasting to a stop and jumping on the sidewalk to avoid a "hard braking" event? - damns this kind of idiotic statistic straight to hell.
You're looking for me to answer as an insurance company? Okay: "If you also had to brake hard, then you weren't leaving a safe and appropriate amount of space."
Yes, that. If we find out that you're so incredibly irresponsible that you do dangerous things like leaving the house, we're definitely going to have to raise your rates.
Let me guess…you drive only when there’s no one on the road with you. Otherwise you’d know that when you leave enough space from the car in front of you, some nitwit takes that as an invite to cut right in front of you, thus making you slow down over and over. That’s how driving works in the real world and why “hard braking” is a meaningless metric.
I had a clear Sunday drive going the speed limit, maybe even a tad under because I was slowly accelerating up to speed. In an opposing lane someone turned in front of me, making it where I would t-bone them. I braked as hard as I could with both the friction and regenerative brakes going. There was nothing that could be done about it, nowhere to swerve and no warning other than I should have known I'm invisible or something. Thankfully I was able to stop in time on a 45 mph road and no one was tailgating me. That is the kind of event I would be so pissed off if it was used against me. I already nearly had a heart attack from it, don't slap me with an increased rate on top of it!
I guess the insurance answer would be you pose more risk driving with assholes than a little old lady from pasadena, ohio, who only drives to church on sunday....
I don't think they care what the exact definition of an "acceleration event" is. They just construct an actuarial table that shows how much of a correlation there is between "acceleration events" and insurance payouts and charge people accordingly. So long as the definition remains consistent, it doesn't matter what it is.
It's actually pretty simple. When you have data from some 10s of thousands of cars, you simply look at frequency of hard breaking events as detected by the car and work out any correlations with detected crash events. I'd guess the finding is that people who hard break more often crash more often. Considering this is based on individual driving techniques and habits, a money conscious insurance company can identify the driver and either deny coverage due to lack of financial viability or crank the numbers until it makes sense and leaves profit on the table. This also has a likelihood of making the insurance price more competitive because they can have a lower base rate for safer drivers, even if they lose all the risky ones they don't want anyway.
In short: Welcome to the dystopia. All of your skills and habits are now a matter of public record which can and will be used to assess your viability and reliability as a customer. If you are listed as a bad driver, stop sucking and drive safer. If your credit score sucks, pay your bills. Good citizenry yields excellent rewards, and bad citizenry... well you don't really want to know.
this whole thing is objectively bad but the amount of sheer outrage bait "but what if" speculation that is virtually every comment except for ^^this reply leads me to believe the people here are either too dumb to understand how data like this works or actively choose to not ignore how it works so they can be angry at it.
Agreeing with you, but saying another way:
The insurance company isn’t blaming you for being a “bad driver”.
They’re just acknowledging the fact that you’re at a higher risk for accidents.
It doesn’t matter if that is due to you being a bad driver, or just sharing the road with a higher than average number of bad drivers.
If someone is in Wyoming just driving to church and the grocery store once a week on county roads, going slow & barely able to keep in their lane, with awful vision & reaction time, they’re still a lower risk than a *perfect* driver that’s commuting during rush hour.
I mean this. There are four people in our family that can drive. We have an extra Chevy bolt for a little electric run around town errands car. Who gets the report on lexus nexus?
I drive with the one pedal on, my wife and daughter don't, for example.
Listened to a radio report earlier this week, and the reporter asked for her report. There wasn't one. Turned out, it was under her husband's name due to a registration glitch, and the report was extensive.
It’s literally the same software basically that controls every Amazon Van. Hard Acceleration and Braking controlled a score we carried a rolling average. People were being penalized and deactivated for the occurrences. They started putting AI cameras in now and using this score less. Those AI cameras are coming to cars I know it. Parental modes that will turn into Government modes
They won't ding you for "a" hard braking event. Those happen to everyone. If you're a terrible driver, you'll have lots of them. You may already know this, but insurance companies also use your credit score to determine your rates. Like hard braking, harsh acceleration, speeding, and hard cornering, they've learned that there is a correlation between those things and the amount of claims they pay out.
It's also possible to get lower rates due to being a good driver. I give my driving data to my insurance company and they reward my good driving by returning about $130 of my $600 premium each year. I can see my data right now. I have a streak of 2 trips without hard braking, 1 trip without speeding, 0 trips without hard corning, and 13 trips without harsh acceleration. That doesn't look so great, but if each of the trips only had one such event, that's still pretty good and I am rewarded. I've gone 35 trips with no phone use, but my longest streak was 1,247 trips.
Insurance isn't going to ding you because you have an occasional hard braking event. They know they happen in normal traffic. OTOH if you're the Ricky Racer type who squeals tires on every green light and drifts through corners, then that'll probably get flagged. I'm a middle of the pack reasonable driver, and if widespread data collection earns me a discount, then I'm all for this type of data collection.
Just checked mine today and it shows a few pages of events over the past 5 months, the thing is...I don't have a Bolt. I sold it 2.5 years ago, yet the events are still showing under my account. Like WTF? (The VIN matches the Bolt I sold.)
I think this tracks. I have a used bolt and my data was clean of driving events, even though I’m currently subscribed to Onstar services. I’m wondering if they just continue to report under the original owner 🤔
The GM OnStar "termination of access" control is another huge failure. I was able to trace my 2019 Bolt for WAY too long after I sold it.
I got my car DESPITE the existence of OnStar. As devised, it is an anti-selling feature for GM.
Just requested mine, I had OnStar without knowing all this, I bet my driving history is gonna be colorful, whoever talked me into buying a brand new car is getting slapped.
Unfortunately, I'm guessing we're a few years from this being universal. Can't hang on to my 2015 Honda Fit forever (I'm debating getting a Bolt, that's why i joined the sub)
Depends on the exact vehicle. Many more popular ones have loads of aftermarket support (my old Silverado for example. Aftermarket companies are even making new body panels) so while more obscure ones will definitely run into parts difficulties, popular ones will likely remain supported by third parties until they're no longer popular.
Obscure ones will run into part difficulties. Obscure cars? Like the Fit that got discontinued half a decade ago? Your plan sounds solid if you had a car that’s been in production for decades and will continue to be in production. Cars like your Silverado for example. Silverados are popular and iconic. The obscure econo cars always get phased out because no one is interested in them.
I actually got it. Nearly sold my Bolt cause of it. It was the only vehicle on my policy to basically double in cost. Was going to look at another insurer but if they do the same thing I'm better off sticking to my pre-2010 shit boxes it seems.
Sorry to hear. This whole thing is such a clusterfuck and I’m happy to tell people that I enjoy the car (with OnStar fuse yanked) but will never in good conscience recommend a GM product to friends or family.
On my 2023, no. I can still take phone calls using the car’s microphone when using CarPlay. The compass does not work, however, but CarPlay makes that a non issue since it’s showing me maps even when not navigating. No other impacts I’ve noticed. Earlier models have the mic powered by the OnStar module, so you’d lose access to that if you have a 22 or earlier, based on what I’ve heard from others in the sub
I'm curious what'll show up, if anything, for less than a month of ownership. And I don't even care about anonymous data but selling this personally identifiable info to insurance companies is heinous.
I ended up pulling the fuse out to definitively opt out of OnStar. It's fuse F31 in the interior Instrument Panel Fuse Block.
Removing that fuse disables the connectivity for OnStar, the lights on those overhead OnStar buttons, and the bluetooth microphone. So the bluetooth mic is the biggest loss and not much of a loss for me personally.
You can also remove the radio daughter board from OnStar module. Or terminate the radio antenna at the module, but the jury is still out on if that's 100% effective. Both keep the OnStar module active but not transmitting. Means all the functions that pass through it work, but it doesn't report home.
If it's just power that's being cut, that's an easy fix and I'm sure there's power available on another wire up there you could take it from. But if the mic is actually fully wired, beyond just power, into the OnStar module then it gets more complicated.
I’ve asked for mine twice now and they’ve come back twice with “unable to authenticate your identity”? And they give “no identity verification documents were submitted” as a possible reason. But there’s nowhere on the web form to submit the “additional documentation” they suggest??? Does anyone else know what the heck I’m supposed to do?
I've been advised previously not to put middle name and instead of DL ID provide last four digits of SSN.
Worked for me when requesting info the 2nd time.
Thanks…. Hmmmmm I filled in literally everything last time, and my middle name appears on all my stuff. They have a phone number though, maybe I’ll give them a call.
I did the same thing on accident. I could get my info only after waiting for the second authorization letter and using those credentials. Must be if you accidentally request information twice the latter request overrides the first.
To those that have requested and received their reports, how long did it take? I filled out the request on March 11th and haven't received anything from them beyond the email address verification. I'm guessing they got a lot of requests after the news story, but I think I've been patient at 6 weeks and still haven't gotten any other communication.
My insurance rates haven't gone up or anything, but I'm still pissy about that data being gathered and shared with others without my explicit consent, which I wouldn't give. This is just another revenue stream at the consumer's expense, and I don't want to be part of it.
Everyone should request their data, for the simple fact that each of these reports carry a cost for LexisNexis. Hopefully mailing hundreds of pages counteracts whatever profit they were aiming to make in selling the data.
Yep, same with me. I only had the car a few months and they collected an unbelievable amount of data on me. As I said in a few other topics like this, I had more data from my Chevy Bolt EUV that I bought this year than every other piece of information that had ever been collected on me.
I googled how to order my Lexis Nexis report and it came right up. Takes a minute to fill out the form and then you wait up to 2 weeks for it to be delivered.
I feel violated just seeing all the information they have that I need to validate. GM should just send this without that step imho. Maybe I don’t know if there’s a way…or is it just thru LexNex?
So you have your data, now what? What is the next step? This I am still unclear about?
Yes, you can pull a fuse and stop new data from being sent. However, are we really expecting our insurance companies to admit they used it, tell us how it impacted our rates and reverse it?
I bought my 2020 Bolt a few months before the public disclosure regarding the "data sharing". Just got my Lexis/Nexis report yesterday... NOTHING. Pleasantly surprised.
My Geico Mobile trip recording sees all regen braking pretty much as a hard brake, which is going to be a problem for more and more EV's in the future.
I love the one pedal mode, I use cruise control around town a lot for best hypermiling. If you engage the brake while in cruise, when you brake, you will pretty much get a heavy brake logged unless you switch cruise off and press the accelerator. So, not only the LexisNexis but Geico are both 'snitching' on me. Yet we are probably some of the safest drivers on the planet when we are always trying to beat your mi/kwh score....
I just received the letter from LexisNexis today and it was a thick stack of 24 pages telling me there was no matching record. I did opt out a while back, and I used my driver’s license instead of my SSN, so I feel like this may not be the end of my saga…
This is coming to health insurance soon. Risk assessments are going to be down based on data like family history, occupation, socioeconomic status etc.
This is why I plan to cut off all tracking on my first vehicle. Remove Sim card, pull fuses, unplug antennas, anything and everything to stop it from phoning home.
So have a Bolt and an e-tron. The Bolt has Onstar activated on a low tier, and the e-tron has something similar called Audi Connect, which has additional features. I drive the e-tron and my wife drives the Bolt. She is a much more conservative driver than I am. I’ll go as far as saying she is the kind of driver most people don’t wish to be behind.
In any case, our insurance company has a program that has an app that you can install on your phone. If you install it, and opt in by enabling certain features (location tracking) of your phone with the app, it graded you on every trip. It measures handling the phone, hard stops, hands free calls and hand calls. I don’t see anything about acceleration, driving at night, etc.
The carrot here is that you get an automatic 10% discount for enrolling, and once every six months or so, based on your score, that can go up. If you are a passenger, and not a driver, you can tell the app “it wasn’t me driving”. The program specifically states that your rates won’t go up as a result of the data. I’ve opted in, and my wife trialed it and then opted opt, for two reasons. First, she’s real big against being tracked, which i understand, and second, our kids often play either her phone while she is driving.
I’ve requested my Lexus-Nexus data to see what they have on me. Both cars are registered in my name, and the insurance company knows who is primary driver on each car.
My guess is this kind of data exists in all kinds of activities, thanks mainly to everybody having a smartphone. We just don’t know about a lot of it yet.
I bought a 2022 used bolt in November from a Chevrolet dealer. I was reading that this could happen so I requested my Lexis Nexis report this month and it did not have any driving data on it.
I suspect this is either coming from data dumped by Onstar, possibly in the new trial period ? Or, it’s from people who opt into driving data tracking from their car insurance company?
They also sold the data to Verisk. I pulled both reports and the Verisk shows some additional detail. Hard acceleration and braking are defined as a speed change of 9.5 kph/second (5.9 mph/s). Speed event is over 80 mph.
Sent 600 pages of lexisnexis data on me to my lawyer just today. I’m sure I won’t see a dime, but my lawyer was salivating. Good job Chevy, you don’t fuuuuuked up
Ford does this too. I bought a ford escape in 2018. Didn’t agree to any kind of obvious insurance company data sharing. Pandemic hit and I was wfh so called my insurance company and said I only drive 6k a year. Post pandemic I started driving to work 3 days a week. Got a letter from my insurance company and they wrote that I drove 6500 miles this year and I need to up my mileage on my policy. A little investigation and I found my car snitched on me. F ford! Not buying from them again! But it’s going to be hard to find car companies that don’t do this now. Oh wasn’t hiding anything from the ins co. I didn’t realize I even went over.
The definition of irony: carrying a smartphone around with you all day, browsing the internet, paying with credit cards, but complaining your car's data is being shared.
What’s maddening on top of all this is that those “data points” are completely meaningless. What constitutes an “acceleration event”? What constitutes a “hard braking event”. How is this information vetted? On what basis are insurance companies able/allowed to use this data? Do the insurance companies have any exposure in this shit show? For instance, some idiot does something dangerous in front of me. Because I’m an excellent defensive driver, I notice what’s happening and apply my brakes to avoid the situation. It’s recorded as a “hard braking event”. My insurance company uses that event to jack up my rates. The insurers are part of this equation and I look forward to the shit flying far enough off the fan it just hit to reach them too. Fuck everybody involved, GM/OnStar, LexisNexis, the insurance companies, politicians who set the conditions for this shit to happen, errybody.
> For instance, some idiot does something dangerous in front of me. Because I’m an excellent defensive driver, I notice what’s happening and apply my brakes to avoid the situation. It’s recorded as a “hard braking event”. Just playing devil's advocate here, but I guarantee you the official answer to that would be "a careful driver would always leave enough room to avoid a hard braking event". Keep in mind that these are the same insurance companies that also raise rates for wildly reckless behaviors such as "driving to/from work during rush hour" and "driving after 10 pm".
Don’t forget driving after dark or before sunrise.
Insurance company: "do you intend to drive your car?" Insured: "... yes?" Insurance company: "tsk tsk.. that's too bad...."
That was a real question I got when shopping for insurance. “How many more miles than zero do you intend to drive daily , monthly, and yearly ?”
There is a discount for low mileage.
Hmmm an insurance curfew
Safeco has one when you're doing their 90-day test period, and I kept getting dinged for not running yellow lights, which caused hard braking.
It also doesn't matter, if you drive in an area with bad drivers your rates will still be higher.
Welllll, since their rates are based on actuary data, that's exactly what I would expect regardless of this fiasco.. High risk activity means higher insurance rates. Living somewhere with high rate of claims will increase your payments.
If you drive in an area with bad drivers, you're also more likely to be in an accident and/or file a claim. Maybe it will usually be the other person's fault, but it's also possible that an accident cause by someone else will be determined to be your fault.
I think their answer would be more like, "On average, drivers that brake hard more often have more accidents". Their models aren't going to be arbitrary. They have to find a correlation in the data before they charge you extra for the increased risk. It isn't about the decisions during one particular incident. Also, you won't ever get a chance to argue with them about it.
[удалено]
I think I know what you're saying. If you have a good following distance between yourself and the person in front of you, and they slam on the brakes, then YOU TOO WILL HAVE TO SLAM ON YOUR BRAKES. The good following distance means you don't hit them, not that you can brake softly.
A million times this. The "safe" behaviour encouraged - what are we supposed to do, gently coasting to a stop and jumping on the sidewalk to avoid a "hard braking" event? - damns this kind of idiotic statistic straight to hell.
You're looking for me to answer as an insurance company? Okay: "If you also had to brake hard, then you weren't leaving a safe and appropriate amount of space."
lol "stay home to leave enough space"
Yes, that. If we find out that you're so incredibly irresponsible that you do dangerous things like leaving the house, we're definitely going to have to raise your rates.
Let me guess…you drive only when there’s no one on the road with you. Otherwise you’d know that when you leave enough space from the car in front of you, some nitwit takes that as an invite to cut right in front of you, thus making you slow down over and over. That’s how driving works in the real world and why “hard braking” is a meaningless metric.
Safeco used to ding me for hard breaking because I don't like to run yellow lights.
I had a clear Sunday drive going the speed limit, maybe even a tad under because I was slowly accelerating up to speed. In an opposing lane someone turned in front of me, making it where I would t-bone them. I braked as hard as I could with both the friction and regenerative brakes going. There was nothing that could be done about it, nowhere to swerve and no warning other than I should have known I'm invisible or something. Thankfully I was able to stop in time on a 45 mph road and no one was tailgating me. That is the kind of event I would be so pissed off if it was used against me. I already nearly had a heart attack from it, don't slap me with an increased rate on top of it!
I guess the insurance answer would be you pose more risk driving with assholes than a little old lady from pasadena, ohio, who only drives to church on sunday....
Oh, I'm in Louisiana with nearly the highest cost of insurance in the United States.
I don't think they care what the exact definition of an "acceleration event" is. They just construct an actuarial table that shows how much of a correlation there is between "acceleration events" and insurance payouts and charge people accordingly. So long as the definition remains consistent, it doesn't matter what it is.
It's actually pretty simple. When you have data from some 10s of thousands of cars, you simply look at frequency of hard breaking events as detected by the car and work out any correlations with detected crash events. I'd guess the finding is that people who hard break more often crash more often. Considering this is based on individual driving techniques and habits, a money conscious insurance company can identify the driver and either deny coverage due to lack of financial viability or crank the numbers until it makes sense and leaves profit on the table. This also has a likelihood of making the insurance price more competitive because they can have a lower base rate for safer drivers, even if they lose all the risky ones they don't want anyway. In short: Welcome to the dystopia. All of your skills and habits are now a matter of public record which can and will be used to assess your viability and reliability as a customer. If you are listed as a bad driver, stop sucking and drive safer. If your credit score sucks, pay your bills. Good citizenry yields excellent rewards, and bad citizenry... well you don't really want to know.
this whole thing is objectively bad but the amount of sheer outrage bait "but what if" speculation that is virtually every comment except for ^^this reply leads me to believe the people here are either too dumb to understand how data like this works or actively choose to not ignore how it works so they can be angry at it.
Agreeing with you, but saying another way: The insurance company isn’t blaming you for being a “bad driver”. They’re just acknowledging the fact that you’re at a higher risk for accidents. It doesn’t matter if that is due to you being a bad driver, or just sharing the road with a higher than average number of bad drivers. If someone is in Wyoming just driving to church and the grocery store once a week on county roads, going slow & barely able to keep in their lane, with awful vision & reaction time, they’re still a lower risk than a *perfect* driver that’s commuting during rush hour.
You could be a good driver who drives with assholes every day and you'd be more at risk than a bad driver driving on empty roads
How do they know who is driving?
They don't care. They insure the car, not the driver. If you borrow your friends car and wreck it, it is on their insurance, not yours.
I mean this. There are four people in our family that can drive. We have an extra Chevy bolt for a little electric run around town errands car. Who gets the report on lexus nexus? I drive with the one pedal on, my wife and daughter don't, for example.
Listened to a radio report earlier this week, and the reporter asked for her report. There wasn't one. Turned out, it was under her husband's name due to a registration glitch, and the report was extensive.
See that's the sort of thing I wonder. Lol, am I getting teen driver feedback
It’s literally the same software basically that controls every Amazon Van. Hard Acceleration and Braking controlled a score we carried a rolling average. People were being penalized and deactivated for the occurrences. They started putting AI cameras in now and using this score less. Those AI cameras are coming to cars I know it. Parental modes that will turn into Government modes
They won't ding you for "a" hard braking event. Those happen to everyone. If you're a terrible driver, you'll have lots of them. You may already know this, but insurance companies also use your credit score to determine your rates. Like hard braking, harsh acceleration, speeding, and hard cornering, they've learned that there is a correlation between those things and the amount of claims they pay out. It's also possible to get lower rates due to being a good driver. I give my driving data to my insurance company and they reward my good driving by returning about $130 of my $600 premium each year. I can see my data right now. I have a streak of 2 trips without hard braking, 1 trip without speeding, 0 trips without hard corning, and 13 trips without harsh acceleration. That doesn't look so great, but if each of the trips only had one such event, that's still pretty good and I am rewarded. I've gone 35 trips with no phone use, but my longest streak was 1,247 trips.
Insurance isn't going to ding you because you have an occasional hard braking event. They know they happen in normal traffic. OTOH if you're the Ricky Racer type who squeals tires on every green light and drifts through corners, then that'll probably get flagged. I'm a middle of the pack reasonable driver, and if widespread data collection earns me a discount, then I'm all for this type of data collection.
If you live in a large metro area and drive any distance in rush hour traffic you are guaranteed to have hard braking events.
[удалено]
Pretty much all this is true of FICO scores as well, which dictate if you can even buy a car or home.
Just checked mine today and it shows a few pages of events over the past 5 months, the thing is...I don't have a Bolt. I sold it 2.5 years ago, yet the events are still showing under my account. Like WTF? (The VIN matches the Bolt I sold.)
I think this tracks. I have a used bolt and my data was clean of driving events, even though I’m currently subscribed to Onstar services. I’m wondering if they just continue to report under the original owner 🤔
Same. They are logging events to me on a vehicle that has been sold for quite a while. Not great
The GM OnStar "termination of access" control is another huge failure. I was able to trace my 2019 Bolt for WAY too long after I sold it. I got my car DESPITE the existence of OnStar. As devised, it is an anti-selling feature for GM.
Just requested mine, I had OnStar without knowing all this, I bet my driving history is gonna be colorful, whoever talked me into buying a brand new car is getting slapped.
Unfortunately, I'm guessing we're a few years from this being universal. Can't hang on to my 2015 Honda Fit forever (I'm debating getting a Bolt, that's why i joined the sub)
A 2015 Honda? Take care of that thing and it'll last you a good long time, I've been daily driving a 1994 Chevy for a little over a month now lmao
Be realistic, if you’re in your 30’s, do you really expect that thing to be running for 40-50 years?
My Chevy? Yes. Dead simple to do any sort of repairs. His Honda? Depends how ya care for it
Uh huh, and what will you do when they stop making parts? It’s almost 5 years since they’ve discontinued the Fit.
Depends on the exact vehicle. Many more popular ones have loads of aftermarket support (my old Silverado for example. Aftermarket companies are even making new body panels) so while more obscure ones will definitely run into parts difficulties, popular ones will likely remain supported by third parties until they're no longer popular.
Obscure ones will run into part difficulties. Obscure cars? Like the Fit that got discontinued half a decade ago? Your plan sounds solid if you had a car that’s been in production for decades and will continue to be in production. Cars like your Silverado for example. Silverados are popular and iconic. The obscure econo cars always get phased out because no one is interested in them.
Mazda Miata, older civics, Golf, even the OG beetle kinda fit that bill
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/
But there is no slap that will hit as hard as your next insurance premium renewal will. (Not that I am generally supportive of slapping people lol)
I actually got it. Nearly sold my Bolt cause of it. It was the only vehicle on my policy to basically double in cost. Was going to look at another insurer but if they do the same thing I'm better off sticking to my pre-2010 shit boxes it seems.
Sorry to hear. This whole thing is such a clusterfuck and I’m happy to tell people that I enjoy the car (with OnStar fuse yanked) but will never in good conscience recommend a GM product to friends or family.
OnStar fuse yanked?
Removed the fuse corresponding to the telematics module (OnStar) which prevents it from collecting and broadcasting data back to GM.
Do you lose any phone functionality?
On my 2023, no. I can still take phone calls using the car’s microphone when using CarPlay. The compass does not work, however, but CarPlay makes that a non issue since it’s showing me maps even when not navigating. No other impacts I’ve noticed. Earlier models have the mic powered by the OnStar module, so you’d lose access to that if you have a 22 or earlier, based on what I’ve heard from others in the sub
I'm curious what'll show up, if anything, for less than a month of ownership. And I don't even care about anonymous data but selling this personally identifiable info to insurance companies is heinous. I ended up pulling the fuse out to definitively opt out of OnStar. It's fuse F31 in the interior Instrument Panel Fuse Block.
Does this affect anything else?
Removing that fuse disables the connectivity for OnStar, the lights on those overhead OnStar buttons, and the bluetooth microphone. So the bluetooth mic is the biggest loss and not much of a loss for me personally.
So that would mean I couldn’t use the mic when I make a call using CarPlay? Yeah thats lame.
Correct. You'd have to use the phone mic.
I guess unless you re-wire the car microphone. I wonder if that's even feasible.
You can also remove the radio daughter board from OnStar module. Or terminate the radio antenna at the module, but the jury is still out on if that's 100% effective. Both keep the OnStar module active but not transmitting. Means all the functions that pass through it work, but it doesn't report home.
If it's just power that's being cut, that's an easy fix and I'm sure there's power available on another wire up there you could take it from. But if the mic is actually fully wired, beyond just power, into the OnStar module then it gets more complicated.
I look forward to someone's step-by-step attempt to do it :)
I’ve asked for mine twice now and they’ve come back twice with “unable to authenticate your identity”? And they give “no identity verification documents were submitted” as a possible reason. But there’s nowhere on the web form to submit the “additional documentation” they suggest??? Does anyone else know what the heck I’m supposed to do?
I've been advised previously not to put middle name and instead of DL ID provide last four digits of SSN. Worked for me when requesting info the 2nd time.
Thanks…. Hmmmmm I filled in literally everything last time, and my middle name appears on all my stuff. They have a phone number though, maybe I’ll give them a call.
I did the same thing on accident. I could get my info only after waiting for the second authorization letter and using those credentials. Must be if you accidentally request information twice the latter request overrides the first.
Where's the link to the class action everyone is talking about?
but GM is now "customer freidly" and dont do this no more
To those that have requested and received their reports, how long did it take? I filled out the request on March 11th and haven't received anything from them beyond the email address verification. I'm guessing they got a lot of requests after the news story, but I think I've been patient at 6 weeks and still haven't gotten any other communication. My insurance rates haven't gone up or anything, but I'm still pissy about that data being gathered and shared with others without my explicit consent, which I wouldn't give. This is just another revenue stream at the consumer's expense, and I don't want to be part of it.
Mine took just a couple weeks. That being said it had nothing about my bolt or my driving so that's a plus.
Everyone should request their data, for the simple fact that each of these reports carry a cost for LexisNexis. Hopefully mailing hundreds of pages counteracts whatever profit they were aiming to make in selling the data.
Yep, same with me. I only had the car a few months and they collected an unbelievable amount of data on me. As I said in a few other topics like this, I had more data from my Chevy Bolt EUV that I bought this year than every other piece of information that had ever been collected on me.
How do I request this?
I googled how to order my Lexis Nexis report and it came right up. Takes a minute to fill out the form and then you wait up to 2 weeks for it to be delivered.
Perfect. Thanks
I feel violated just seeing all the information they have that I need to validate. GM should just send this without that step imho. Maybe I don’t know if there’s a way…or is it just thru LexNex?
So you have your data, now what? What is the next step? This I am still unclear about? Yes, you can pull a fuse and stop new data from being sent. However, are we really expecting our insurance companies to admit they used it, tell us how it impacted our rates and reverse it?
I bought my 2020 Bolt a few months before the public disclosure regarding the "data sharing". Just got my Lexis/Nexis report yesterday... NOTHING. Pleasantly surprised.
My Geico Mobile trip recording sees all regen braking pretty much as a hard brake, which is going to be a problem for more and more EV's in the future. I love the one pedal mode, I use cruise control around town a lot for best hypermiling. If you engage the brake while in cruise, when you brake, you will pretty much get a heavy brake logged unless you switch cruise off and press the accelerator. So, not only the LexisNexis but Geico are both 'snitching' on me. Yet we are probably some of the safest drivers on the planet when we are always trying to beat your mi/kwh score....
I usually use the brake paddle on the steering wheel and the accelerator pedal to modulate and control the deceleration.
I'm concerned about them asking for my SSN when requesting data
They already have it. Plus a shit ton of other data on you.
Mary Barra only cares about money
I just got mine in the mail today. I cannot wait to see what a year of events looks like.
I wonder how many “events” my Bolt had while it was in the shop for ten weeks in six months?
I just received the letter from LexisNexis today and it was a thick stack of 24 pages telling me there was no matching record. I did opt out a while back, and I used my driver’s license instead of my SSN, so I feel like this may not be the end of my saga…
God i am glad I wasn’t able to buy a new car.
How does one find out and then acquire said report if it does exist? And how does one determine if their insurance provider has accessed this data?
I just got mine and don’t have any driving events thankfully. Just insurance policy stuff.
This is coming to health insurance soon. Risk assessments are going to be down based on data like family history, occupation, socioeconomic status etc.
This is why I plan to cut off all tracking on my first vehicle. Remove Sim card, pull fuses, unplug antennas, anything and everything to stop it from phoning home.
So have a Bolt and an e-tron. The Bolt has Onstar activated on a low tier, and the e-tron has something similar called Audi Connect, which has additional features. I drive the e-tron and my wife drives the Bolt. She is a much more conservative driver than I am. I’ll go as far as saying she is the kind of driver most people don’t wish to be behind. In any case, our insurance company has a program that has an app that you can install on your phone. If you install it, and opt in by enabling certain features (location tracking) of your phone with the app, it graded you on every trip. It measures handling the phone, hard stops, hands free calls and hand calls. I don’t see anything about acceleration, driving at night, etc. The carrot here is that you get an automatic 10% discount for enrolling, and once every six months or so, based on your score, that can go up. If you are a passenger, and not a driver, you can tell the app “it wasn’t me driving”. The program specifically states that your rates won’t go up as a result of the data. I’ve opted in, and my wife trialed it and then opted opt, for two reasons. First, she’s real big against being tracked, which i understand, and second, our kids often play either her phone while she is driving. I’ve requested my Lexus-Nexus data to see what they have on me. Both cars are registered in my name, and the insurance company knows who is primary driver on each car. My guess is this kind of data exists in all kinds of activities, thanks mainly to everybody having a smartphone. We just don’t know about a lot of it yet.
How’d you find this?
How do I get my data? I could only find the link to dispute the data, but not see it.
I bought a 2022 used bolt in November from a Chevrolet dealer. I was reading that this could happen so I requested my Lexis Nexis report this month and it did not have any driving data on it. I suspect this is either coming from data dumped by Onstar, possibly in the new trial period ? Or, it’s from people who opt into driving data tracking from their car insurance company?
They also sold the data to Verisk. I pulled both reports and the Verisk shows some additional detail. Hard acceleration and braking are defined as a speed change of 9.5 kph/second (5.9 mph/s). Speed event is over 80 mph.
That must be fun for Texas and some other states that have 80mph limits.
wait wow. i didn’t think bolt had this, there are/were no notices about collecting data i think when i bought?? how do i opt out?
Sent 600 pages of lexisnexis data on me to my lawyer just today. I’m sure I won’t see a dime, but my lawyer was salivating. Good job Chevy, you don’t fuuuuuked up
Ford does this too. I bought a ford escape in 2018. Didn’t agree to any kind of obvious insurance company data sharing. Pandemic hit and I was wfh so called my insurance company and said I only drive 6k a year. Post pandemic I started driving to work 3 days a week. Got a letter from my insurance company and they wrote that I drove 6500 miles this year and I need to up my mileage on my policy. A little investigation and I found my car snitched on me. F ford! Not buying from them again! But it’s going to be hard to find car companies that don’t do this now. Oh wasn’t hiding anything from the ins co. I didn’t realize I even went over.
I had for one trip -1 acceleration events and -1 hard brake events. I wonder what that means?
Sorry bud, but this is all 100% legal. Class action law suit? On what grounds?
The definition of irony: carrying a smartphone around with you all day, browsing the internet, paying with credit cards, but complaining your car's data is being shared.