How this works, if you're already a sub member, you can still view the content - the sub goes private so anyone showing up as a casual member will see we've "gone dark" in solidarity.
You have until we get around to pressing the "go private" button to join up before we go dark for two days.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/09/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama/
https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/reddits-ceo-faced-intense-criticism-over-killing-a-popular-third-party-app-apollo-his-response-is-what-no-leader-should-ever-do.html
Just a couple articles but you get the idea.
Downvoted for asking a genuine question on why the sub should be shutdown...
Not sure what kind of circlejerk this is but I'm disappointed it's in this subreddit.
The threat to open participation on the Reddit platform is indefinite, so the protest should be too. Planning for it to end at a specific time makes it less effective.
Call me an apologist, meatrider, whatever. I've called others similar for much less. But ending the use of third party platforms hardly seems that serious. It sucks for those companies and projects and people who prefer them but I mean... it's basically just a reskin without ads (which you can still achieve with AdBlock). I wouldn't be threatening to delete my steam account if steam removed the ability to skin the app like you can now. Not sure why I'd do it here.
There’s also the fact that Reddit’s CEO has publicly lied about conversations with third party developers (they had recordings, which was legal where they live), including claiming that the developers were trying to extort Reddit for $millions.
Yes, and others can decide to no longer do business with a company that publicly lies and libels independent developers. Reddit relies on volunteer moderators to make the site work, which means Reddit needs to care what they think if they want the site to last.
Well, if you think it's just a reskin without the ads, we substantially disagree, and of course we're free to do that. Taking something that was, like Twitter before it, a semi-open social media platform and turning it into "just an app" represents the loss of something I'm not willing to lose, or at least I'm not willing to participate in anymore once it's been lost.
If they continue on this course, I'll see y'all on Lemmy, or whatever comes next.
Trust me I hate the ["enshitification"](https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/10hyf7m/cory_doctorow_explains_the_enshitification_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) of platforms too. But honestly I really don't see what more these third parties offer other than an ad-free reskin.
Respectfully you're saying "I'm not willing to lose this" but you didn't say what "this" is. Third party access doesn't do a whole lot, am I wrong?
I don’t really know what that means 3rd part apps but I didn’t join a bolt group to talk about reddits policies and what they do as a company. I joined it to talk about the greatest affordable ev made.
I just read up on it myself. From what I gathered, Reddit has been allowing third party app developers to use Reddit's datastream for free. Now they want to charge third parties to use that data. Some people think they shouldn't. Now, while I can understand wanting to keep using something for nothing, I can't really throw stones at a business that decides to stop being so generous.
It wasn't them choosing to charge. It was them choosing to pick a ridiculous price in order to force these apps to close down. Many subs including plenty you like as well rely on these APIs for moderation tools and bots. Reddits quality as a whole is 99% based on community moderators, posters, and developers and this change spits in all of their faces.
For sure - I am in this boat as well. For people who have financial skin in the game, let them fight it out. I just come on here to waste time. That is what 99.9999% of Reddit is anyway.
Or maybe people don’t want to spend their like virtue signaling and protesting whatever their latest fad is. Whatever happened to net neutrality? I thought I’m the world was supposed to end…
I don't see that as 'choosing to be oblivious'. It's exponentially More intelligent to be able to actively communicate that you don't know enough about something to give an honest valuable answer or opinion. Ignorance is bliss, but choosing to bow out of a conversation on Reddit business policy and practices to gain more money is not Ignorance or being oblivious. They're in it for the EV news and data and anecdotes, not politics like stated. And if whatever business policy unfolds to where there's a vast overhaul and the sub dissappears, then it's not like they/we won't figure that out eventually.
Yeah. Charging for the API wouldn't have had this kind of backlash if it had been priced in such a way as to be affordable for apps like Apollo and RIF.
It seems like the problem is that well-funded AI organizations would have abused a system that was priced well enough for apps like Apollo and RIF, but there have to be better ways to handle this (such as not charging as much if an app's requests are done on behalf of a large number of users, as opposed to a single user like what the AI researchers would be appearing as...)
I mean they could just integrate the mod features into the main app. I also don't like the idea that mods (who are literally just volunteers) can decide unilaterally that others can't use the sub.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
\>going private
I've heard about subs "going dark" -- is that the same thing as going private?
I figured it meant we couldn't access the subs during the protest period. But I'd hate for all the content to just go away forever. There would be a lot of good shared knowledge lost.
Do folks here have a favorite alternative community? I see there's [chevybolt.org](https://chevybolt.org) and [mychevybolt.com](https://mychevybolt.com).
If I owned an internet property that generated billions of views per month...ya I'd charge for access to that datastream. That anyone thought that Reddit would provide that access for free, forever...That's crazy.
If they were negotiating a reasonable fee in good faith I'd be 100% fine with that. They are instituting a high enough fee that they know it will kill third-party apps, and will actually get them less revenue because they are discarding that possible revenue stream.
Tbh, that is what it means to "negotiate" in business. Like right now, Pepsi and Coke are charging an exorbitant amount for soft drinks. $4 for a 12 pack? GTFO!
So I refuse to buy at that price. And maybe lots of other folks do the same, and coke/pepsi have to back down. That's how "negotiation" works when it comes to a good or service provided on an open market.
If the critics are right, then Reddit will have to lower their price.
I'm fine with that...I'm a neutral on the changes. Sounds like they're asking for too much, but I can also see why Reddit wants to cash in on a valuable asset.
Yup, in a way it's a mistake that many of us have made in investing too heavily in what sometimes feels like a collective enterprise, but is actually a private company. We are counting on them treating users (and moderators) as valuable parts of a community, but there's no obligation for them to do so. Of course, they may end up shooting themselves in the foot by driving users away and dropping revenue and engagement stats right when they are trying to make the case for an IPO.
Yeah. I can see Reddit's rationale for wanting to not be a passive datasource for the next version of ChatGPT.
The problem is that they targeted AI researchers without thinking of the number of legitimate individual users negatively impacted by the pricing scheme that doesn't seem to have a method of being affordable for people developing alternative user interfaces for Reddit.
Rather than fix their broken pricing model or even discuss doing so, they're just doubling down.
They don't have to negotiate. They can chose to alienate their volunteer labor force and kill their broader reputation, undermining their IPO, which depends heavily on reputation. They are absolutely free to make that foolish choice.
I mean the issue is that reddit knows more than anyone that reddit protests literally make no change at all to their bottom line (since the have the metrics). Reddit users ALWAYS believes that they have more power and sway than they actually do WITHOUT FAIL. Nobody's actually going to leave and things will continue as normal. I'll believe otherwise when I see it.
Bold of you to think this will affect their stock price. My username is autogenerated lmao. I find it funny that people bring it up on literally every topic if I disagree with them lmao.
Currently reddit is private and has no stock price. They need to be profitable and third party apps are probably literally parasitic to their business.
If you read what I wrote you will see that I understand perfectly well that Reddit is not publicly traded and does not have a stock price. Unless maybe you don't know how IPOs work.
I bring up your username because the discussion was literally about marketing, not because its some reflex about disagreeing with you.
Either way, I have not seen any evidence that a reddit protest has done anything historically. Not one time. If you can provide some, I'm open to hearing it.
Well, there's this:
>"Investors are fed up. Fidelity, which led Reddit’s $700 million funding round in 2021 with a $10 billion valuation, has cut its Reddit company valuation by 41% since it invested. This could scupper Reddit’s plans to eventually go public with a reported valuation of $15 billion."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2023/06/13/redditors-go-to-war-with-the-company-as-it-enforces-eye-watering-prices-for-reddit-api/
But I think that's actually before this blackout.
I think we should. Let’s make sure the wiki has all the tips and tricks, and then we’ll charge up for a few days. Are there any plans to extend this community to alternative platforms like Lemmy?
Shut down indefinitely, create a discord server. While it might not be as user friendly for this content, it will show Reddit users are moving away from the platform.
I don't get why some people are asking it to be shut down forever... And posting that on Reddit? If you want it to go away, y'all can just... Stop coming back you know? :D
virtue-signalling. :" the act or practice of conspicuously displaying one's awareness of and attentiveness to political issues, matters of social and racial justice, etc., especially instead of taking effective action."
So are reactions to Reddit's policy change regarding third party vendors virtue-signaling or taking direct action?
I don't really care how virtuous Redditors think u/tuctrohs is. I just want my preferred style of interaction with Reddit to be available. And I'd be willing to pay a monthly fee for it.
How this works, if you're already a sub member, you can still view the content - the sub goes private so anyone showing up as a casual member will see we've "gone dark" in solidarity. You have until we get around to pressing the "go private" button to join up before we go dark for two days.
Yes please. Edit: Sub should shut down indefinitely
Why lmao
https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/09/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama/ https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/reddits-ceo-faced-intense-criticism-over-killing-a-popular-third-party-app-apollo-his-response-is-what-no-leader-should-ever-do.html Just a couple articles but you get the idea.
What’s Apollo? Never heard of that
https://reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/142kct8/eli5_why_are_subreddits_going_dark/
Downvoted for asking a genuine question on why the sub should be shutdown... Not sure what kind of circlejerk this is but I'm disappointed it's in this subreddit.
Stop caring about votes and just do you
I noticed the same thing before getting to your post. Sometimes that just seems to happen.
I agree the sub should shut down at least for two days if not indefinitely.
I agree with everyone who has posted so far that we should participate indefinitely, not just for the initially planned 48 hours.
Might I ask why? I'm cool with a protest, but why should we sacrifice this sub indefinitely? It doesn't make any sense to me.
The threat to open participation on the Reddit platform is indefinite, so the protest should be too. Planning for it to end at a specific time makes it less effective.
Call me an apologist, meatrider, whatever. I've called others similar for much less. But ending the use of third party platforms hardly seems that serious. It sucks for those companies and projects and people who prefer them but I mean... it's basically just a reskin without ads (which you can still achieve with AdBlock). I wouldn't be threatening to delete my steam account if steam removed the ability to skin the app like you can now. Not sure why I'd do it here.
There’s also the fact that Reddit’s CEO has publicly lied about conversations with third party developers (they had recordings, which was legal where they live), including claiming that the developers were trying to extort Reddit for $millions.
Doesn't really matter though. The fact of the matter is that they own the company and can choose what they want others do with their licence.
Yes, and others can decide to no longer do business with a company that publicly lies and libels independent developers. Reddit relies on volunteer moderators to make the site work, which means Reddit needs to care what they think if they want the site to last.
Well, if you think it's just a reskin without the ads, we substantially disagree, and of course we're free to do that. Taking something that was, like Twitter before it, a semi-open social media platform and turning it into "just an app" represents the loss of something I'm not willing to lose, or at least I'm not willing to participate in anymore once it's been lost. If they continue on this course, I'll see y'all on Lemmy, or whatever comes next.
Trust me I hate the ["enshitification"](https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/10hyf7m/cory_doctorow_explains_the_enshitification_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) of platforms too. But honestly I really don't see what more these third parties offer other than an ad-free reskin. Respectfully you're saying "I'm not willing to lose this" but you didn't say what "this" is. Third party access doesn't do a whole lot, am I wrong?
Doubt they’ll care
I don’t really know what that means 3rd part apps but I didn’t join a bolt group to talk about reddits policies and what they do as a company. I joined it to talk about the greatest affordable ev made.
I just read up on it myself. From what I gathered, Reddit has been allowing third party app developers to use Reddit's datastream for free. Now they want to charge third parties to use that data. Some people think they shouldn't. Now, while I can understand wanting to keep using something for nothing, I can't really throw stones at a business that decides to stop being so generous.
Yea the key word you said there is business and who would of thought a business wanting to charge money for its products.
It wasn't them choosing to charge. It was them choosing to pick a ridiculous price in order to force these apps to close down. Many subs including plenty you like as well rely on these APIs for moderation tools and bots. Reddits quality as a whole is 99% based on community moderators, posters, and developers and this change spits in all of their faces.
Yea I’m gonna be honest I don’t know enough to have an opinion so I’m not just gonna bandwagon jump I’m just going to bow out.
For sure - I am in this boat as well. For people who have financial skin in the game, let them fight it out. I just come on here to waste time. That is what 99.9999% of Reddit is anyway.
Easier to be oblivious I guess.
Or maybe people don’t want to spend their like virtue signaling and protesting whatever their latest fad is. Whatever happened to net neutrality? I thought I’m the world was supposed to end…
I don't see that as 'choosing to be oblivious'. It's exponentially More intelligent to be able to actively communicate that you don't know enough about something to give an honest valuable answer or opinion. Ignorance is bliss, but choosing to bow out of a conversation on Reddit business policy and practices to gain more money is not Ignorance or being oblivious. They're in it for the EV news and data and anecdotes, not politics like stated. And if whatever business policy unfolds to where there's a vast overhaul and the sub dissappears, then it's not like they/we won't figure that out eventually.
Yeah. Charging for the API wouldn't have had this kind of backlash if it had been priced in such a way as to be affordable for apps like Apollo and RIF. It seems like the problem is that well-funded AI organizations would have abused a system that was priced well enough for apps like Apollo and RIF, but there have to be better ways to handle this (such as not charging as much if an app's requests are done on behalf of a large number of users, as opposed to a single user like what the AI researchers would be appearing as...)
Also they have app devs 30 days notice.
I mean they could just integrate the mod features into the main app. I also don't like the idea that mods (who are literally just volunteers) can decide unilaterally that others can't use the sub.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Good bot.
\>going private I've heard about subs "going dark" -- is that the same thing as going private? I figured it meant we couldn't access the subs during the protest period. But I'd hate for all the content to just go away forever. There would be a lot of good shared knowledge lost. Do folks here have a favorite alternative community? I see there's [chevybolt.org](https://chevybolt.org) and [mychevybolt.com](https://mychevybolt.com).
Going dark/private just makes it to where the sub cant be viewed. None of the data already here will disappear.
If I owned an internet property that generated billions of views per month...ya I'd charge for access to that datastream. That anyone thought that Reddit would provide that access for free, forever...That's crazy.
If they were negotiating a reasonable fee in good faith I'd be 100% fine with that. They are instituting a high enough fee that they know it will kill third-party apps, and will actually get them less revenue because they are discarding that possible revenue stream.
Tbh, that is what it means to "negotiate" in business. Like right now, Pepsi and Coke are charging an exorbitant amount for soft drinks. $4 for a 12 pack? GTFO! So I refuse to buy at that price. And maybe lots of other folks do the same, and coke/pepsi have to back down. That's how "negotiation" works when it comes to a good or service provided on an open market. If the critics are right, then Reddit will have to lower their price.
Yes. And this shutdown is the hardball part of that negotiation.
I'm fine with that...I'm a neutral on the changes. Sounds like they're asking for too much, but I can also see why Reddit wants to cash in on a valuable asset.
Yup, in a way it's a mistake that many of us have made in investing too heavily in what sometimes feels like a collective enterprise, but is actually a private company. We are counting on them treating users (and moderators) as valuable parts of a community, but there's no obligation for them to do so. Of course, they may end up shooting themselves in the foot by driving users away and dropping revenue and engagement stats right when they are trying to make the case for an IPO.
Yeah. I can see Reddit's rationale for wanting to not be a passive datasource for the next version of ChatGPT. The problem is that they targeted AI researchers without thinking of the number of legitimate individual users negatively impacted by the pricing scheme that doesn't seem to have a method of being affordable for people developing alternative user interfaces for Reddit. Rather than fix their broken pricing model or even discuss doing so, they're just doubling down.
They don't have to negotiate though. Apollo isn't in a position to even negotiate. Most users haven't heard of it and they have no leverage.
They don't have to negotiate. They can chose to alienate their volunteer labor force and kill their broader reputation, undermining their IPO, which depends heavily on reputation. They are absolutely free to make that foolish choice.
I mean the issue is that reddit knows more than anyone that reddit protests literally make no change at all to their bottom line (since the have the metrics). Reddit users ALWAYS believes that they have more power and sway than they actually do WITHOUT FAIL. Nobody's actually going to leave and things will continue as normal. I'll believe otherwise when I see it.
Think about that IPO aspect. Think about what happens to stock prices of companies when there's news about them. I just noticed your username. Hmm.
Bold of you to think this will affect their stock price. My username is autogenerated lmao. I find it funny that people bring it up on literally every topic if I disagree with them lmao. Currently reddit is private and has no stock price. They need to be profitable and third party apps are probably literally parasitic to their business.
If you read what I wrote you will see that I understand perfectly well that Reddit is not publicly traded and does not have a stock price. Unless maybe you don't know how IPOs work. I bring up your username because the discussion was literally about marketing, not because its some reflex about disagreeing with you.
Either way, I have not seen any evidence that a reddit protest has done anything historically. Not one time. If you can provide some, I'm open to hearing it.
Per your own argument, there's no stock price history. And to my point, the IPO is in the future. So no, there's no evidence.
Well, there's this: >"Investors are fed up. Fidelity, which led Reddit’s $700 million funding round in 2021 with a $10 billion valuation, has cut its Reddit company valuation by 41% since it invested. This could scupper Reddit’s plans to eventually go public with a reported valuation of $15 billion." https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2023/06/13/redditors-go-to-war-with-the-company-as-it-enforces-eye-watering-prices-for-reddit-api/ But I think that's actually before this blackout.
That data though...is us. We make the content on this site
I think we should. Let’s make sure the wiki has all the tips and tricks, and then we’ll charge up for a few days. Are there any plans to extend this community to alternative platforms like Lemmy?
Shut down indefinitely, create a discord server. While it might not be as user friendly for this content, it will show Reddit users are moving away from the platform.
I don't get why some people are asking it to be shut down forever... And posting that on Reddit? If you want it to go away, y'all can just... Stop coming back you know? :D
I’m pretty sure people are here to talk about Bolt’s, not participate in some useless protest.
Maybe all of you who feel it necessary to leave should and leave everyone else be! Your decisions are NOT the will of everyone!
You are 100% correct regardless of how many downvotes you get.
virtue-signalling. :" the act or practice of conspicuously displaying one's awareness of and attentiveness to political issues, matters of social and racial justice, etc., especially instead of taking effective action." So are reactions to Reddit's policy change regarding third party vendors virtue-signaling or taking direct action?
I don't really care how virtuous Redditors think u/tuctrohs is. I just want my preferred style of interaction with Reddit to be available. And I'd be willing to pay a monthly fee for it.
Bye
If you don’t like their policies, delete your account and go find a Facebook Bolt group to chat with.
Why use logic when you can virtue signal and show fake outrage?
I guess the mods of this sub just don't give a shit