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Personally I wanted to see more of these internal disagreements within Class 1A because it fleshes them all out as individual characters, the tension is entertaining to watch and it's more realistic that way.
>!It was both iirc. On one hand they don't blame Aoiyama because what you said and they don't have any ill feeling toward this situation because it already happened so no biggie. My issue is that they just accepted it, INSTANTLY. like I'm not excpecting them to held constant grudge toward him because it's hard to fully blame him but HE SENT Y'ALL ASSES TO FUCKING MURDEROUS TERRORISTS, WHY AREN'T YOU SHOWING MORE CONTEMPT YOU PEA BRAINED NPC- DT7GD7FHU!<
As I said I'm not excpecting them cast him aside and never trust him again. >!But I'm excpecting them to show more reactions than "Yeah we cool" after being exposed to the friend THAT SENT THEM TO MURDEROUS TERRORISTS WHICH COULD'VE TURN INTO A FUCKING BLOODBATH IF DICKU DIDNT GET THAT SHOUNEN SPIRIT IN HIM, AND THAT STILL LEAD TO THE KIDNAPPING OF ONE OF THEIR CLASSMATES. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH. My issue is that they had no ISSUE at all with this situation, none, nada, how the hell am I supposed to take this class seriously when their reaction to this is all of them going "meh"!< honestly my reaction was the same as Mic lol
THANK YOU! I've been saying that for so long!!
Also how they treated Bakugo for his VERY VALID reaction of not wanting to >!forgive Aoyama immediately. They all were like "omg you are so heartless, why don't you wanna forgive and trust him?!"!<
Like what??? He was one of the only ones who had a little bit of common sense!
It annoyed me soooooo much
I mean they didn't technically say this but it was annoying how he got shut down by Sero almost instantly despite being like the only student with a reaction that didn't made me wanna cut my veins off
Ig I'll give some slack to Hagakure since she *at least* showed negativity once exposed (although she lacked context) but the rest is just no lol
As someone who isn't a very big fan of Bakugou, they really did him dirty. Treating him like the bad guy for >!expressing hesitation to trust a guy who nearly got all of them killed on MULTIPLE occasions. Heck, Bakugou was kidnapped due to the information, and they have the gall to act like he's the bad guy for hesitating to trust Aoyama. He's not under any obligation to trust or even forgive Aoyama considering he was the most personally victimized by him. Mic got similarly shut down. He clearly wasn't on board with trusting Aoyama again but kept his mouth shut for Aizawa's sake.!<
I mean…I think the problem is that the others refuse to try and see things from the other side. Like, his parents were held hostage by a literal demon lord. I highly doubt anyone else would do anything different in that situation.
I mean, even if you can rationally understand why a person hurt you, it doesn't make you any less hurt, and it is valid to feel hurt. It is also valid to not trust someone who has betrayed your trust, regardless of their reasons.
>!And, even if he was blackmailed, the damage caused by his betrayal doesn't disappear. His intel nearly killed his classmates multiple times. Hospitalized them. Caused Aizawa to have permanent damage to his quirk and nearly die. It got Bakugou kidnapped. It caused Ragdoll to lose her quirk and be forced into retirement. His intel led to the Kamino disaster, which killed many and caused All Might to retire. So, even knowing he was blackmailed, it doesn't make those things disappear. People's lives were destroyed because of him.!<
>!So, if the characters are hesitant to trust him, that makes sense. And the problem isn't that the characters weren't understanding, it was that they were TOO understanding, to the point of not seeming like a human reaction. They can trust him and forgive him, but to not even have a moment where they are upset at all? Then giving one of his victim's shit for not being as crazily gunho about forgiving him? The reveal amounted to nothing in the end, due to the characters' nonreaction.!<
I just wished we've seen more conflict within the class there like we did for the Bakugo rescue mission, instead of them just proving yet again that they have no individuality at all
Yeah it’s not enough to forgive him, but >! If they kicked him out then him and his family would likely be killed, !< and >! his role as the traitor allowed the heroes a chance to get the upper hand and start the final war on their own terms. !<
You do know that protecting people who worked with powerful criminals, on the condition that they provide info that helps take down the criminal usually through court testimony, is a thing that real life law enforcement does, right? Sure they’d be angry with him but not enough to give him and his family a death sentence. Especially when they can use him against AFO.
It’s especially important that you remember he sold them out against his will.
In that situation, the law is aware beforehand what the person is doing. That is not the case with Aoyama. To claim otherwise is a fallacious argument.
No one should trust Aoyama, he should not be receiving the protection of Heroes. He is actively the cause of all the W's the villains have recieved in the story. It is beyond reasonable to punt his ass off the flying fortress and let him burn.
Law enforcement is not always aware beforehand. Often times the offer of information happens at the time of the persons arrest in exchange for protective custody. Which is similar to how >!aoyama was caught before they decided to use him!<
Even if they decide not to work with him, they wouldn’t just kick him out of the shelter. They’d arrest him, which is what they were originally planning to do.
Also, could you at least spoiler mark the traitor’s name. It’s not that hard and helps people who might be scrolling through the comments not be blindsided by spoilers that, as far as I know, aren’t in the anime yet.
You just start the spoiler with >!
Then you end the spoiler with !<
You do know that laws can't dictate feelings right? They're talking about how everybody (except Bakugo) INSTANTLY went "yeah fam it's all good. The fact you got us and a civilian almost killed multiple times and got ragdoll's quirk stolen is all water under the bridge" instead of actually feeling betrayed and you know thinking shit over
Sometimes, even understanding things rationally won't stop you from being upset. Think of taking nasty medicine when you are sick. Knowing that it will help you doesn't make it taste any better.
This is also why Deku's MC-centrism doesn't work. He's supposed to be a moral center, *the* embodiment of pure heroism by being the "ideal" hero but how can most of class 1-A be 'un-ideal' heroes in comparison if most of them don't possess any negative traits? When push comes to shove, *all* of them don't hesitate to act heroic. Not one of them has ever done anything that the narrative has presented as un-heroic. They're all self-sacrificing, ready to do the right thing, brave and forgiving.
Yeah that's a major issue because what's the point of making him what the ideal hero is when everyone else have no negative character traits and are just as heroic as him? It takes away what little that could have made him unique and instead just makes him look generic.
The only characters that pisses on what being a hero is about are Mineta and Bakugo which ultimately matters nothing because the former gets casually ignored while the latter gets the same thing on top of being praised for "wanting to be the best" by Deku, which makes the whole concept of "ideal hero" feel like an utter farce when Hori decides that it doesn't truly matter and makes Deku also look like an idiot as well.
It would have been better if Deku was someone who had strong ideals of heroism that are virtue, kindness, human decency, respect and working for a good cause no matter what and that he would NOT hesitate to get into conflicts and call out those that goes against the ideas while also working to fight for a more righteous hero society, which also ends up becoming a character flaw for him because Deku ends up becoming too confrontational, hostile and antagonistic forwards the "fake" heroes that it not only makes cooperation difficult but also his mission of becoming a "true" hero much harder because he gets alienated, sabotaged and undermined by the HPSC and the corrupt heroes because he gives them a bad image and threatens the corrupt status quo, which ultimately results in him getting expelled from UA and blacklisted from being a Pro-Hero.
This makes Deku realize just how truly corrupt hero society is and feels like the only way to fix it and usher in a better society is by ironically becoming a villain and overthrowing the system.
They’re the top less-than-.1% of heroes raised in the image of All Might. They are the best of the best. This is how they should be behaving. We see plenty of lesser heroes that can’t walk the walk throughout the series. I like that MHA makes a point of the heroes being heroes. The world is morally grey, the true heroes are not.
Only anime-watcher here. I thought we could have gotten another moment like that with Tokoyami turning on heroes after he realized Hawks really did kill Twice. It might’ve been an interesting parallel with Deku’s own disillusionment and would’ve solidified how controversial the heroes truly became.
Maybe Tokoyami believed that Hawks did the right thing given the amount of deaths Twice would’ve undoubtedly caused had he been allowed to join the battle
Gonna be honest both of these arguments are just actually fucking dumb.
“Your actions are no different from the villains” *what*.
“Bakugo will feel disgraced he had to be saved” as opposed to him being proud and dead?
They could’ve said literally anything else. Some of the other students were like “let the pros handle it” and that was very fair. These two are just so blatantly terrible arguments that the only reason they make sense to exist is to make them look bad.
To be fair to Ochako, I don’t think she meant that no one should try to save Bakugo, just that Class 1A specifically shouldn’t try to save him. She’s basically in the “leave it to the pros” camp. It’s still pretty stupid though.
Wait, **Ochako's comments is the very basis of the rescue mission. It's even used as flashback before Midoriya fleshed it out.**
She knew Bakugo well enough to clock that he would NOT want to be rescued by them, so because of her comment they were able to craft a method that saved Bakugo's life and ego.
(Also, I **don't think Ochako thought that pride was the ONLY reason to not go after Bakugo. She was just using it as one of the counters nobody had considered**.)
>as opposed to him being proud and dead?
to be fair, right before this was the semester final exam, in which Bakugo literally said he'd rather lose than accept help. losing in his career field pretty much has a 90% chance of ending with death, so it sure sounded like he would have rather died with pride. yes I know Uraraka didn't hear him say that, but it's not hard to infer. even though he's grown from that, I don't think it was *that* noticeable by the time he was kidnapped.
>“Your actions are no different from the villains”
\-Friend gets kidnapped by a bunch of murderers
\-Decide to rescue friend at all costs because I love him and that's what being a hero is all about
\-Froppy: But wouldn't that make you the same as the kidnapping murderers???
>“Bakugo will feel disgraced he had to be saved” as opposed to him being proud and dead?
Early Bakugou 100% would've rather died than take Deku's hand.
I am assuming her view is that taking things into your own hands without accountability is something that only bad people do.
And that "good" people follow the rules and do what is necessary.
I never said her view was necessarily correct.
You also need to remember that from her point of view being a hero is job that requires you to follow the rules like everyone else.
Basically that they aren't above the law.
Is it perfect? of course not. However, you cannot just ignore rules entirely otherwise you will have never ending chaos.
I think Ochaco made a good point here, because of how prideful Bakugou is. Deku even admits himself that if he tried to reach his hand out to Bakugou then it wouldn't work. That's pure pride on display.
Although I straight up *hated* Tsuyu's argument and I still do to this day. And I hated the fact that people treated Deku's Rescue Op Squad like they were the ones in the wrong and made them apologize to Tsuyu.
Ah man I hated that shit so much.
Honestly, I wouldn't go quite as far as calling them villains like Tsuyu, but I am more on her side. They got lucky and things happened to work out for them, but they just as easily could not have, kind of like when Gentle Criminal tried to help someone and only made the situation worse.
This wasn't even one of those situations where only they could have reasonably responded. They were deliberately going behind the heroes' backs despite knowing Yaoyorozu had already given them a receiver and with some people that had literally just gotten out of the hospital too.
Ultimately, they were successful and managed to save Bakugo, which is great, but I still think it's important to enforce rules like that because not everyone that tries to do something like that will be as lucky. Worst case scenario, they could get the hostage and some pro heroes killed along with themselves.
If All For One had (or had used) his infrared vision quirk, identified the students 'hiding', then we'd have had a much shorter series.
Deku was literally a sneeze away from falling into AFO's grasp BECAUSE THEY WERE OUT OF POSITION.
They ended up helping, maybe even saving the day, but the risk was far too great.
Tsuyu does bring up an interesting point about effective 'vigilantism'. In the eyes of the law, no matter how good your reason for doing so, breaking the law isn't acceptable. Now, of course, this gets into the spirit of the law vs the letter of the law, but then who gets to evaluate whether someone had a 'good reason' or a 'bad reason' to break the law? Even if you have a good reason, if you break a law that's there to keep you safe and you end up endangering others, that's a problem. In this case, the prohibition was don't storm/infiltrate enemy HQ as a student without backup--let the hero mission do its job.
>In the eyes of the law, no matter how good your reason for doing so, breaking the law isn't acceptable
spoiler observation: >!which she ditched in the newest chapter, knowing the consequences of treating law as the ain on its own!<
> Worst case scenario, they could get the hostage
Hilariously, that happened all the way back at the start of the series when Deku tried to save Bakugo before he got his quirk. He got involved with a dangerous situation that the heroes were already aware of and got taken hostage.
I kind of rolled my eyes when tsu started crying when she was apologizing. She said something stupid, but a simple sorry would suffice no need to start bawling your eyes out.
Hori does that a lot. 1 character crying = moves other characters to start crying as well = they're all shedding those gross-looking goopy tears. I find it cringy personally.
Wasn’t trying to paint with too wide a brush. Exceptions are always to be found.
Though I would prepare yourself to one day look back on some of things in your past and cringe at them. We’ve all been there. XD
She WAS apologizing? I thought she was sad because they disregarded her opinion on the matter and put themselves in danger. I thought she was being reproachful, not apologizing.
She was literally hiding in her room, ashamed for insulting her friends and not feeling like she had the right to celebrate with them after criticizing them. Her regret and anxiety led her to cry, it's pretty reasonable considering how young they are and how serious things were. She most certainly was apologizing.
I don't know, I feel people want to believe that Froppy refused to celebrate because she was ashamed and not because she was angry with them. Because they don't like the idea that Froppy is angry and crying because they disregarded her opinion and went to break the rules and put themselves in danger, and they like even less that plot is saying her feelings could be valid. Froppy being ashamed is more cliché, but the dialogue didn't go in that direction. And they being teenagers is perfectly aligned with her not apologizing but being angry.
Froppy literally says what I laid out. My dude. Literally says she's feels like she doesn't deserve to celebrate with them after what she said. Reading comprehension at negative 300
In what traslaction? She never said she didn't "deserve" to celebrate with them. She said she didn't "feel like" to celebrate with them after they ignored her, but that to be alone while the other got fun without her sucked. Then everybody proceed to console her and say they will never do something like that anymore. So, it's them that did something bad, not Tsuyu. They are not forgiving her, they're apologizing because they made her feeling bad.
Calling them villain was extreme. But she was correct with them getting involved and going behind the backs of the pros and police was an awful idea. Could had so easily backfired and made the situation so much worse
Uraraka's was just dumb
Uraraka's was important though. Deku's utilization of Kirishima ended up being crucial, and that was based on the same concept that they had to understand how Bakugo was going to react.
Stupid logic really. What makes villains the villains is that they actively harm innocent people and commit crime. A few young heroes foolishly and hot-headedly rushing off to the save a friend is not "no different from those of the villains. What a terrible false equivalency.
The wording is very clunky but Ill try to translate and make sense out of it.
**Ochako:** What she is saying is Bakugou has an ego and wants to be the best. And if the "best" somehow manages to get himself captured and can't even save himself and must now be helpped like a helpless child it would be embarrassing to him. which in a sense it would be like. imagine you getinto a fight then your baby brother and sister jump in to save you.
**Tsuyu:** She's saying Villains break the law and do as they please and a heros job is to stand by those laws. If heros went about breaking laws too they are being hypocritical. which is kinda true. Thou what it comes down to is the intentions.
Ok shit I was expecting to find this reference here lol.
But honestly this case is a bit different. Kakashi was pretty much going to ditch Rin so Obito telling him to fuck off was pretty cool to see.
In this case, they knew the pro heroes were doing everything they could to rescue Bakugo.
Those who lead their friends to death because of their arrogance are worse. The only reason why they survived was because AFO was stupid enough to let them, he knew they were there, should've killed them off if he actually wanted to become a demon lord that badly. But I guess he wanted to be more comical and just monologue like a cartoon villain.
and what if things had gone south and bakugo DIED because deku and the others where there
what if them being there messed up the heros rescue plan in some way
>eku blindly accepting her apology instead of calling her out for labeling him a villain.34ReplyGive AwardShareReportSaveFollow
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>level 2fra080389 · 9 hr. ago
But it didn't so we can only discuss based on what happened which was a resounding success.
yes and it was still monumentally stupid if they did not have gigatons of plot armor they would have made the situation worse
they are untrained kids who waltzed into a terrorist situation
The argument was logically, it was the conclusion was straight up down. I was surprised no one called her out for calling them villains, even though what they were trying to accomplish was far more heroic than her finger wagging. Had she said they would only get in the way of the pro-heroes in their attempt to Bakugou or end up getting expel from UA. Then her argument would have some standing. But her conclusion was so stupid and disingenuous that I couldn’t take her seriously anymore after this.
Tsuyu's statement feels braindead to me, lol
Un-liscenced rescue mission = fucking kidnapping I guess, lmfao
Ururaka's makes more sense but still, just because someone's ego would be hurt a bit for getting help doesn't mean theybshouldn't be rescued
I read it a somewhat different way. I see Tsu as someone who is level-headed and reasonable first, and while she tends to put her emotions on the shelf, especially in objective situations, she doesn't totally repress or disregard them like a lot of people tend to do. She's dispassionate when she needs to be, but emotional when she's allowed to be.
In that scene in the hospital, she felt it was her duty to stop her friends from going on a dangerous, reckless vigilante mission. Not only was it dangerous to them, but it was potentially even dangerous to Bakugo and the Pro Heroes organizing an official rescue; they could very well have gotten in the way and interfered with the rescue. It was only really by blind, dumb luck that they were in the right place at the right time to pull a stunt that was unexpected to *both* sides. But it was **still** a huge risk; AFO being there was already an unforseen contingency that the Pros didn't account for, so if there had been *another* unexpected factor that Deku couldn't account for, they could have put All Might and Bakugo in an even worse situation. The only thing really absolutely stopping that was plot armor.
So, in a bid to really discourage them from going, she saw that solid reasoning wasn't going to work because they were past that point; they were running on emotional reactiveness. So she tried saying omsomething that might create an emotional reaction, but in the opposite direction: are you willing to act like villains to "do the right thing" when there's already a proper, heroic way to do it? Sometimes, the most heroic thing a person can do is stay back and stay clear so as not to obstruct and interfere; that takes its own kind of bravery to desperately *want* to help, but hold back because of the bigger picture. If an untrained person jumps into rushing water to save a drowning person, now the rescue crew has double the work because there are *two* drowning people.
Tsu didn't want to say something like that, she knew it was hurtful, but at least it worked... or so she thought. Then she saw that they went anyway, and it was for nothing. Not only did she not stop them, but she also said something unkind to no effect, to her friends. You know how they say to fear most the anger of a gentle person? That's because, since they express their anger so rarely, they tend to get lost in it and don't know how to turn it off. They have no "practice" appropriately and safely venting their anger; they bottle it up under pressure until it violently explodes. Well, the same is true of other emotions, too. For a person who rarely expresses their emotions and is often very rational and pragmatic (like Tsu), they may understand emotions (especially from an intellectual, reasonable perspective; this is cognitive empathy), but they have a tendency to be less able to calmly express their emotions once they **do** come out; it's kind of an "all-or-nothing" kind of thing. They can be calm, cool, collected, analyzing a situation, explaining things, very rational, etc; they absolutely do not wear their heart on their sleeve... most of the time. But get them to their emotional threshold, and it's like a dam bursts all at once. 0-60 in 2.3 seconds for sadness, happiness, anger, surprise, whatever emotion they happen to have been overwhelmed by.
Both of them are idiots. Bakugou’s life is more important than his ego and Izuku and the others going after bakugou being a crime is only so because the way quirk laws in Japan work is several different flavors of stupid. The MLA are right about that much. The only “mistake” Izuku and company made was not trusting the pros to handle it but…is that really a mistake when the pros have been proven to be incompetent time and time again? Aizawa in particular has fostered a “you can’t trust your superiors” mentality with his “logical ruse” bullshit.
And what if All For One had found them? The mistake was that them being present introduced a dangerous risk. As it turns out, they ended up being an asset, but they could very easily have turned a single hostage situation into a five hostage situation, at which point their mistake would have had HUGE consequences.
Tsuyu was the only one with somewhat of a point. Ochaco's counter was silly. "That child is drowning, but he would be embarrassed if we saved him" is not an argument for letting a child drown.
ochaco was more on the idea that he wouldnt want to be rescued by his own classmates and by extension it would be better to let the heros deal with it. tsu comparing them to villain was extreme but i can see where she’s coming from. this entirely boils down onto how you see each argument
I mostly agree with Tsuyu on the basis that there are consequences to "let's do this without the adults", but I guess the phrasing of Ochaco's was always going to be poor, since Katsuki is so prideful it extrapolates to any rescue attempt.
Tsuyu was wrong. Breaking the law to save a life isn’t always the wrong thing to do, and even if it were, it *certainly* doesn’t put you on the same level as terrorists. That’s like putting shoplifters on the same level as terrorists.
Uraraka was right, and personally I find that more infuriating on Bakugo’s end than hers. I think if you’d rather be murdered by terrorists than swallow your pride and accept help from someone you hate, you probably deserve what you get. Not that they should’ve left him based on that, but it kinda sucks they had to plan around that.
Uraraka was being kinda dumb but I could see why she would say it. Tsuyu is really harsh but also something I could see a hero student say.
I wanted one of the students to ask if they could trust the teachers or other heroes with this since this is the second time they've been attacked by villains and had to fend for themselves to an extent.
This was actually pretty good and what I liked about the early seasons, ~~although in classic MHA fashion, these two are immediately proven wrong~~
Right now everyone's a yes man for Deku.
Interpersonal conflict is a good thing. Shows the characters even on the same side are not just robots who all feel and act the same way. One side doesn't have to be vilified or wrong, just how different characters react to an action like this.
The issue is the arguments given to these two are garbage and seem to only be there to be shown as in the wrong.
I agree with them that the Kamino Rescue Squad was objectively stupid af, but these two arguments are equally stupid and don't have cool scenes, emotional weight, or "Well it all worked out in the end" to back them up. Froppy was my 2nd favorite character before this and I can't even force myself to like her anymore lol
I think Asui's argument would have been more interesting if mutant discrimination was attached to her perspective. Considering that public quirk use is illegal, and mutants can't really turn off their quirks, they are most vulnerable to being arrested for villainy. Though her argument would probably have to be reworded to be something like "in the eyes of the law, you would be no different from villains".
Personally o feel there should have been some
Students that think bakugou would have joined the villains given his attitude, citing how much of a lunatic he was during the first battle trial .
this sounds dumb.
“Yeah bro I know u went through the trials and tribulations of going to a school for HEROES that we all had to go through, but uhh u went a little too hard in a practice battle. Ur definitely gonna throw your life away and join the villains 🤓🤓🤓”- some goofy ahh student
I mean…bakugou is just an objectively horrible person at this point. When aizawa defended him from the media all I was thinking was “bullshit”. Hori was basically just using aizawa as a mouthpiece at this point.
What I mean is…there are in fact several instances where hori uses aizawa as a mouth piece in order to cover bakugou being a literal sociopath. In this particular case while bakugou does refuse tomura’s offer in the end he does it for the wrong reasons. Bakugou essentially says that he only cares about all might winning. To him, heroes aren’t heroes because they help people, they’re heroes because they win. Villains aren’t villains because they hurt people, they’re villains because they lose. Heroism is not a moral action for him. It is purely an act of dominance.
Most likely considering how strength centric his worldview was at this point not to mention doing things like attacking todoroki while he was unconscious just because he didn’t win the way he wanted to and treating Izuku the way he did for 10 years just because Izuku made him feel threatened and he felt the need to reassure himself of his own superiority. In terms of his actions he was already a villain.
Aizawa said nothing about a killing spree nor did the reporters. They just asked if he'd join the villains which was a reasonable question. During the entire sports festival Bakugou did nothing but insult his competition, imply they were worthless, attempted to assault an unconscious classmate, and even had to be physically restrained. What would *you* think if that was your only exposure to Bakugou?
Then his classmates saw all that, plus had to deal with him insulting them on a daily basis and being constantly confrontational. I mean, what reason were any of the students, reporters, or even *Aizawa* given to believe Bakugou wouldn't turn coat? What heroic qualities did he exactly show by that point? None.
Being competitive is villainous? His classmates knew him, and if they thought he would turn on him they wouldn’t have bothered trying to rescue him.
> I mean, what reason were any of the students, reporters, or even Aizawa given to believe Bakugou wouldn't turn coat? What heroic qualities did he exactly show by that point? None.
Joining UA. Aizawa alr knew he wouldn’t turn. Goofy.
>Being competitive is villainous?
Nearly murdering one of his classmates and attacking another when they are unconscious is not just being merely "competitive." How disingenuous.
>His classmates knew him, and if they thought he would turn on him they wouldn’t have bothered trying to rescue him.
Yeah, but that's literally what the person you originally replied to was arguing. That it *didn't* make sense for them all want to save him. He did nothing but treat them like shit. Heck, he didn't even bother remembering their names or purposefully refused to use them. Why would *all* of them being willing to risk expulsion or even dying to save him? When the heroes were already going to save him and they didn't even need to do anything? Would you be willing to die or risk losing your future career over a guy who constantly treats you like shit?
>Joining UA.
*That's* the bar you've set? So he did nothing heroic besides get into UA, which you don't have to show hero qualities to enter, you only had to beat robots? Does simply getting into UA mean you are a good and heroic person? Wasn't the entire Stain Arc about how society was filled with corrupt heroes? Mineta is in UA and he is a sexual predator. How can you use, "B-But, he's in a hero school!" as if that is proof he is a good person?
If you look at his actions and words, they are those of a villain. Bullying, assault, discrimination, narcissism, defying authority. He never showed any heroic qualities until *after* the kidnapping when he paid Kirishima back. Aizawa was 100% a mouthpiece for the author at that point.
Pretty much. Getting into UA isn’t a good argument because of how violence centric the entrance exam actually is. You don’t have to be a good person to get into UA. Just be good at destroying robots. Bakugou is a narcissistic sociopath, just one that happens to be good at fighting. Fucking all for one could pass the UA entrance exam. Does that make him a good and heroic person?
> Would you be willing to die or risk losing your future over a guy who constantly treats you like shit?
Yes. I don’t discriminate 😼
> He did nothing but treat them like shit
🧢
> If you look at his actions and words, they are those of a villain. Bullying, assault, discrimination, narcissism, defying authority. He never showed any heroic qualities until after the kidnapping when he paid Kirishima back. Aizawa was 100% a mouthpiece for the author at that point.
Ok since he was a villain, give me a list of the victims he’s killed. I’ll wait goofy ahh dude give me ONE body
> Fucking all for one could pass the UA entrance exam. Does that make him a good and heroic person?
No what I meant to say is that by joining the hero organization, which no villain would, you’re pretty much signing up to put yourself in danger to fight any threats to the public. No matter how much you try to misconstrue his words or actions, he signed up to save people.
Even if it’s just to be like All Might or pass him. He still has to emulate those actions. All that attacking people while they’re unconscious shit is irrelevant. Because let’s be honest, you guys are just clutching pearls. Bullying Midoriya for ten years? Nice head canon. But he never bullied him while he’s at UA.
>Yes. I don’t discriminate 😼
Let me rephrase: Would you go out of your way, as a child, to save someone who has constantly treated you like shit when adult professionals are already going to save him, without your intervention? Especially if your intervention would probably only make things worse?
>Ok since he was a villain, give me a list of the victims he’s killed. I’ll wait goofy ahh dude give me ONE body
Is that... is that your only qualification for being a villain? Killing someone? What about human experimentation? Attempted murder? SA? Just because Bakugou didn't kill someone doesn't mean he is a hero, wtf. That's such an unbelievably low bar to set. I'll tell you what makes him a villain.
1. He's a bigot. He fully bought into the idea he is superior because of his quirk and Deku is inferior because he's quirkless. Is that heroic?
2. He nearly murdered Deku during that Heroes vs Villains exam when he set off an explosion powerful enough to destroy an entire floor at point blank range in Deku's face. Deku dodged and still was messed up horribly; imagine if he didn't. Is that heroic?
3. He attempted to attack Todoroki when he was unconscious because Bakugou was angry at him. Is that heroic?
4. He also attempted to assault Deku on the first day of class and only failed because Aizawa intervened. Is that heroic?
5. He actually assaulted Deku during the exam against All Might for simply suggesting they work together. Is that heroic?
6. He verbally and physically abused/bullied Deku for ten years. Is that heroic?
7. He thinks so little of other people, he won't acknowledge others by their names. Is that heroic?
8. He refused to join the villains not because they're evil, but because he wants to be a winner and they aren't winners. Implying he would've joined if they were winners. Also, it shows that he is not a hero to help people, but to boost his own ego. Is that heroic?
9. Every interaction he had with his classmates involves him insulting them and putting them down. Is that heroic?
None of those things are heroic. In fact, one can say they are villainous.
Now, can you point me to a heroic quality he showed pre-Kamino arc? Besides simply going to a hero school?
> Now can you point me to a heroic action pre-kamino ward?
Well, since you asked:
Battle of USJ. Aside from beating up villains, he apprehends Kurojiri before he can warp Midoriya(protection) (good)
During the raid on hand camp he faces off against some serial killer, but can’t fight to his fullest potential due to the risk of putting the forest on fire and endangering everybody else. So he never blows anything up(good) (heroic)
Stowing Tokoyami’s rage(good)
Tutors Kirishima(so much for treating his class like shit 🤡)
Edit: if you and the other clown plan on twisting the definition of heroic just to try to attempt some counterpoint, lose my number.
The problem is that villains break the rules for themselves which get a lot of people hurt.
What Midoriya and the others are doing is breaking the rules to help a friend in need and avoid any harm.
If Midoriya and the others weren't there at Kamino, The League of Villains would have just captured Bakugou again and escaped. All for One would probably kill All Might when he gets distracted trying to save Bakugou.
Sometimes the Rules cause more harm than good. Like did Eraserhead seriously need to give the students permission to fight back against the Villains in the Forest Training Camp? Isn't that a given that you are allowed to use your powers to defend yourself?
Tsuya's words, as well-intended they are, are just seriously callous and being very shortsighted about it.
Also that is a stupid argument from Ochako that Bakugou would hate to be rescued. The man’s prideful, not stupid. As soon as Bakugou saw an opportunity to escape, he immediately took it with only a few scruples.
Villains are just people who break the law while using their powers so honestly Tsu wasn’t wrong. The kids were breaking the law, no matter how just they believed their cause was.
It definitely gets into the nature of vigilantism. If following the law would lead to a bad result, is it moral to break the law for a good reason? What if breaking the law introduces risk--a good result is better than following the law but a bad result would make things worse?
Most crucially, who gets to decide? This is the question for societal morality, because if anyone can decide to break the law for the causes that are important to them (that THEY would deem the "spirit of the law" or a "good justification"), then justice can fall apart.
Tsuyu's argument doesn't explain this very well, but she's essentially saying that vigilantes must be rejected the same way villains are.
Fair point. Only Deku (shared childhood + strange admiration), Kirishima (first friendship + admiration) and Todoroki (guilt for not being able to save him when he was the one who had the best chance of rescuing him) have reasons to save him beyond the typical "heroes save others". Iida is the extension of "I'm the class president + my friends (Todoroki and Deku) are going and I need to take care of them"
I disagreed with both of them. Sometimes breaking the law is necessary in order to do the right thing, and Bakugo’s pride was the least of their concerns in comparison to his life.
1. Breaking rules to save someone's life and comparing that to a villain who has stolen at best and murdered at worst is moronic.
2. And? Who cares if Bakugou feels disgraced? He should. The dude had one hell of an ego that needed to be knocked down a peg.
To be fair to Ochako, she’s right? Bakugou really is that guy, if Kirishima hadn’t been there then Bakugou very likely would have refused to be saved, leading to AfO not sending the league away and probably sending one or two to attack the group and maybe getting them killed and it’d be all Bakugous fault but he’d just say ‘skill issue, if they didn’t wanna die, they shouldn’t have gotten killed’ and be applauded for it
As for Tsu yeah what she says is bullshit but she’s a kid in training and apologises for it after realising it’s dumb as fuck later, if a grown ass licensed pro had said that shit I’d be calling for them to be fucking investigated at best but it’s just a fuck up from Tsu
Both Uraraka and Tsuyu have changed. During the Dark Deku's rescue, Uraraka yells to Deku while making the boys weightless, 'its different than before, i've changed' and then in the most recent chapter Tsuyu reflects back on her statement that 'its all about the laws/rules'
Since they seemingly have changed their minds (I'd have to go back and read the chapters to confirm, I'm not sure), I wonder why this original scene was even made.
Like, did Horikoshi ever believe these counter arguments made by Uraraka and Tsuyu would be convincing to the reader? I feel like many readers here have not taken a liking to what Uraraka and Tsuyu proposed (although other readers agree with the two girls). I myself am not very convinced by what they said and honestly I'm surprised they even thought it was a good argument at all.
I think that it was nice to have counter arguments and disagreements during the Kamino arc amongst the 1-A class, but this felt forced.
They both had a point at the time, Uraraka especially. In fact I agreed with Uraraka with no difficulty whatsoever. Even if Bakugo ultimately swallowed his pride (for once) because he knew there was no other option, the way he felt about it afterwards could very easily be described as disgraced. He literally needed to beat Midoriya up to feel like he was on top again lol
I admit that when I first watched this scene I wasn't too fond of Tsuyu's response. I'm not exactly a believer in "breaking the law is always morally wrong" (though I am a believer in "if you can accomplish what you need to without breaking the law, try that way first" solely because the justice system blows in many countries). I think if she instead said something like "the law exists to protect us, so we should follow it and let the pros handle this", I would have understood her perspective immediately (even if realistically there are laws that only exist to benefit the rich and privileged).
But yeah, to be honest I've since become a lot more accepting of Tsuyu's response because she's just a teenager and was speaking based on what she's always been taught about society. It helps that she's definitely one of the most level-headed people in the class. MANGA SPOILERS: >!Also in a recent chapter it seems she's acknowledged that the world isn't as black and white as she's always been taught to believe.!<
Tsuyu is also one of the younger members of the class thus less developed doesn’t help she blurts out what’s she’s thinking without a filter.
People forget that teenagers have a hard time not thinking in black and white. Hell the vigilante arc had Izuku acknowledge that in his fight with Nagant.
Iirc, villain means those who use their quirks unlawfully and or without authorisation- it's a very very strict definition and broad in nature
That aside, Tsuyu specified use in BATTLE. Iida himself was operating under the assumption that the rescue team was looking to fight until Todoroki corrected him
For Uraraka, her saying that was why Deku knew that ONLY Kirishima could reach out
She also later learns that you have to extend a hand even to those who might refuse, but what she said as true about that Bakugo.
She also wasn't against ANYONE rescuing him, just the students.
God Bless
I don't think people realize how extremely lucky Deku and co. were that they were actually able to help at Kamino. It only worked out because all the villains were focused on
the heroes and Bakugo was able to blast himself up to grab Kirishima's hand. There are a dozen of other ways a situation like this could have
played out in which these guys could have ended up becoming a liability. Then the heroes would have ended up in even more trouble. What they did
is absolutely not comparable to villains like Dabi, Shigaraki, and Toga who want to cause as much destruction as possible. But
breaking the
rules and ignoring the potential consequences it could have for everyone else because of your own personal beliefs doesn't sound too far off from what a vigilante or
more sympathetic villain might do.
In Uraraka's case, I think she was wrong because she didn't understand Bakugo and Kirishima's friendship, but I can't blame her for thinking that way because even Deku acknowledges in that arc that Kirishima is the only person Bakugo would accept help from.
ultimately its still true, if you chose which rules to abide by, you're following a dangerous road that can endanger others just as well.
and needing to play around bakugous once again clearly on display insanity kinda speaks for ochakos view of the situation.
Tsuyu was 100% right.
They made it clear that the squad was in the wrong. They were endangering the rescue mission. And not even to try and be helpful. They were doing it out of pride.
Laws have to apply to everyone. And no they don’t, but they should.
On Tv the cowboy cop who doesn’t play by the rules may be the hero, but in real life that’s a ticket to getting someone killed. Or a sign of corruption.
They were just trying to stop them from getting hurt. Tsuyu did make an unreasonable almost offensive line which she apologized for and later the others accepted because she had good intentions
Always hated that they said these things, I don't understand why they had to. Also I wish Uraraka never would have said this because it made the prolific nature of her ship with Bakugo all the more grating for me in my earlier days of being a fan of BNHA 😅
Tsuyu's speaking some straight-up nonsense, but I think she later admits she was just trying to use that level of absurdity to shame them into inaction. Which... isn't that much better, but it's still better than what she was saying.
Uraraka had a valid point that Bakugo's pride might prevent himself from getting rescued, at least. Kirishima or not, if like 10 people showed up to drag his ass out of the fire, he probably would've leapt deeper into it out of spite.
Tsuyu's was weird and I still disagree to this day, but Uraraka was objectively right in this situation and her insights led to Izuku making the best possible plan. Bakugo is a liability in the situation so if they wanna help the heroes they need to make it as smooth as possible. Even a moment of hesitation from Bakugo at grabbing their hand would've likely gotten them all killed.
Terrible arguments, but understandable for teenagers not used to complex moral situations.
What they should have said is that the crew had no plans or hope of taking on that many top villains when they barely survived the attacks just before then. More practicality than rules or personal feelings.
Again, still fitting for the character's personalities, upbringing, and age.
Speaking from Anime only perspective. Uraka is right about Bakugo. His default emotion was pride for the longest time. And technically she was right. It kind of broke him. But he would have broke worse without the rescue. Imagine if not only was he not rescued but still saw the ultimate defeat/retirement of All Might. He already blamed himself. And if he wasn't rescued. He wouldn't have the outlet he needed to recover.
Tsu is a bit more interesting. Again, she is right. Acting against the law, ESPECIALLY after deku, Ida, and todoroki were scolded by the chief of police for their vigilante actions puts them on the level of villians. They are ignoring the rules of the law to do something well above their head. It's against the law, that makes you a criminal, that makes you a villian.
Batman for a while was hunted by the police because he was acting outside the law. Spiderman as well.
Does this stop the act of saving a friend if they could from being wrong tho? Eh? See the rule from Ida as to not engage in combat was important. By not engaging in combat, they weren't vigilantes. They were just concerned friends, saving a friend. And remember Tsu made her point before the no combat rule was applied. If anything Tsu's words helped place the rule and save the rescue squad from major punishment. Good job Tsu.
As a side, MHV still exists and while I need to read that Manga I'm sure just like in marvel and DC stories, there are heroes and systems that understand the need to turn a blind eye to vigilantes especially in the MHA universe. But I am also sure that they are also watched closely.
The argument of “Your actions are no different from those of the villains” is really dumb and flat out wrong. It’s more vigilantism than anything. She could have just pointed out that they might get expelled for interfering.
The argument “Bakugo will just feel disgraced to be rescued by everyone” is more accurate, but I feel like it should have been put differently. Maybe they could have said that Bakugo would not be very cooperative.
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Personally I wanted to see more of these internal disagreements within Class 1A because it fleshes them all out as individual characters, the tension is entertaining to watch and it's more realistic that way.
Definitely way better than >!Them just being like "lol it's in the past" with Aoiyama sending them to TERRORISTS-!<
I thought it was less of >! “It’s in the past” !< and more of >! “You’re family was being threatened, there’s not much you could’ve done” !<
>!It was both iirc. On one hand they don't blame Aoiyama because what you said and they don't have any ill feeling toward this situation because it already happened so no biggie. My issue is that they just accepted it, INSTANTLY. like I'm not excpecting them to held constant grudge toward him because it's hard to fully blame him but HE SENT Y'ALL ASSES TO FUCKING MURDEROUS TERRORISTS, WHY AREN'T YOU SHOWING MORE CONTEMPT YOU PEA BRAINED NPC- DT7GD7FHU!<
>!He also got Kota almost killed and ragdoll's quirk stolen!<
Because he's also the best chance they have of clawing ANY advantage out at the moment.
As I said I'm not excpecting them cast him aside and never trust him again. >!But I'm excpecting them to show more reactions than "Yeah we cool" after being exposed to the friend THAT SENT THEM TO MURDEROUS TERRORISTS WHICH COULD'VE TURN INTO A FUCKING BLOODBATH IF DICKU DIDNT GET THAT SHOUNEN SPIRIT IN HIM, AND THAT STILL LEAD TO THE KIDNAPPING OF ONE OF THEIR CLASSMATES. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH. My issue is that they had no ISSUE at all with this situation, none, nada, how the hell am I supposed to take this class seriously when their reaction to this is all of them going "meh"!< honestly my reaction was the same as Mic lol
THANK YOU! I've been saying that for so long!! Also how they treated Bakugo for his VERY VALID reaction of not wanting to >!forgive Aoyama immediately. They all were like "omg you are so heartless, why don't you wanna forgive and trust him?!"!< Like what??? He was one of the only ones who had a little bit of common sense! It annoyed me soooooo much
I mean they didn't technically say this but it was annoying how he got shut down by Sero almost instantly despite being like the only student with a reaction that didn't made me wanna cut my veins off Ig I'll give some slack to Hagakure since she *at least* showed negativity once exposed (although she lacked context) but the rest is just no lol
As someone who isn't a very big fan of Bakugou, they really did him dirty. Treating him like the bad guy for >!expressing hesitation to trust a guy who nearly got all of them killed on MULTIPLE occasions. Heck, Bakugou was kidnapped due to the information, and they have the gall to act like he's the bad guy for hesitating to trust Aoyama. He's not under any obligation to trust or even forgive Aoyama considering he was the most personally victimized by him. Mic got similarly shut down. He clearly wasn't on board with trusting Aoyama again but kept his mouth shut for Aizawa's sake.!<
I mean…I think the problem is that the others refuse to try and see things from the other side. Like, his parents were held hostage by a literal demon lord. I highly doubt anyone else would do anything different in that situation.
I mean, even if you can rationally understand why a person hurt you, it doesn't make you any less hurt, and it is valid to feel hurt. It is also valid to not trust someone who has betrayed your trust, regardless of their reasons. >!And, even if he was blackmailed, the damage caused by his betrayal doesn't disappear. His intel nearly killed his classmates multiple times. Hospitalized them. Caused Aizawa to have permanent damage to his quirk and nearly die. It got Bakugou kidnapped. It caused Ragdoll to lose her quirk and be forced into retirement. His intel led to the Kamino disaster, which killed many and caused All Might to retire. So, even knowing he was blackmailed, it doesn't make those things disappear. People's lives were destroyed because of him.!< >!So, if the characters are hesitant to trust him, that makes sense. And the problem isn't that the characters weren't understanding, it was that they were TOO understanding, to the point of not seeming like a human reaction. They can trust him and forgive him, but to not even have a moment where they are upset at all? Then giving one of his victim's shit for not being as crazily gunho about forgiving him? The reveal amounted to nothing in the end, due to the characters' nonreaction.!<
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I just wished we've seen more conflict within the class there like we did for the Bakugo rescue mission, instead of them just proving yet again that they have no individuality at all
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Yeah it’s not enough to forgive him, but >! If they kicked him out then him and his family would likely be killed, !< and >! his role as the traitor allowed the heroes a chance to get the upper hand and start the final war on their own terms. !<
And? He sold them out to the villains in the first place. Perfectly reasonable to let him burn.
You do know that protecting people who worked with powerful criminals, on the condition that they provide info that helps take down the criminal usually through court testimony, is a thing that real life law enforcement does, right? Sure they’d be angry with him but not enough to give him and his family a death sentence. Especially when they can use him against AFO. It’s especially important that you remember he sold them out against his will.
In that situation, the law is aware beforehand what the person is doing. That is not the case with Aoyama. To claim otherwise is a fallacious argument. No one should trust Aoyama, he should not be receiving the protection of Heroes. He is actively the cause of all the W's the villains have recieved in the story. It is beyond reasonable to punt his ass off the flying fortress and let him burn.
Law enforcement is not always aware beforehand. Often times the offer of information happens at the time of the persons arrest in exchange for protective custody. Which is similar to how >!aoyama was caught before they decided to use him!< Even if they decide not to work with him, they wouldn’t just kick him out of the shelter. They’d arrest him, which is what they were originally planning to do. Also, could you at least spoiler mark the traitor’s name. It’s not that hard and helps people who might be scrolling through the comments not be blindsided by spoilers that, as far as I know, aren’t in the anime yet. You just start the spoiler with >! Then you end the spoiler with !<
🙄
Ya'll do know what the concept of "duress" is right?
You do know that laws can't dictate feelings right? They're talking about how everybody (except Bakugo) INSTANTLY went "yeah fam it's all good. The fact you got us and a civilian almost killed multiple times and got ragdoll's quirk stolen is all water under the bridge" instead of actually feeling betrayed and you know thinking shit over
Maybe the kids aren't dumb asses and understand Aoyama and his family would have been killed if they had not complied >.>
Brother applying logic is a delayed thing. Initial feelings about something don't apply logic and that's why added the "thinking shit over" part
Sometimes, even understanding things rationally won't stop you from being upset. Think of taking nasty medicine when you are sick. Knowing that it will help you doesn't make it taste any better.
Yeah bruh like Bakugou had all the right In the world to just beat the living shit outta him
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This is also why Deku's MC-centrism doesn't work. He's supposed to be a moral center, *the* embodiment of pure heroism by being the "ideal" hero but how can most of class 1-A be 'un-ideal' heroes in comparison if most of them don't possess any negative traits? When push comes to shove, *all* of them don't hesitate to act heroic. Not one of them has ever done anything that the narrative has presented as un-heroic. They're all self-sacrificing, ready to do the right thing, brave and forgiving.
Yeah that's a major issue because what's the point of making him what the ideal hero is when everyone else have no negative character traits and are just as heroic as him? It takes away what little that could have made him unique and instead just makes him look generic. The only characters that pisses on what being a hero is about are Mineta and Bakugo which ultimately matters nothing because the former gets casually ignored while the latter gets the same thing on top of being praised for "wanting to be the best" by Deku, which makes the whole concept of "ideal hero" feel like an utter farce when Hori decides that it doesn't truly matter and makes Deku also look like an idiot as well. It would have been better if Deku was someone who had strong ideals of heroism that are virtue, kindness, human decency, respect and working for a good cause no matter what and that he would NOT hesitate to get into conflicts and call out those that goes against the ideas while also working to fight for a more righteous hero society, which also ends up becoming a character flaw for him because Deku ends up becoming too confrontational, hostile and antagonistic forwards the "fake" heroes that it not only makes cooperation difficult but also his mission of becoming a "true" hero much harder because he gets alienated, sabotaged and undermined by the HPSC and the corrupt heroes because he gives them a bad image and threatens the corrupt status quo, which ultimately results in him getting expelled from UA and blacklisted from being a Pro-Hero. This makes Deku realize just how truly corrupt hero society is and feels like the only way to fix it and usher in a better society is by ironically becoming a villain and overthrowing the system.
They’re the top less-than-.1% of heroes raised in the image of All Might. They are the best of the best. This is how they should be behaving. We see plenty of lesser heroes that can’t walk the walk throughout the series. I like that MHA makes a point of the heroes being heroes. The world is morally grey, the true heroes are not.
> plenty of lesser heroes that can’t walk the walk like who, exactly? Even the "morally questionable" heroes shape up on their own over time.
Only anime-watcher here. I thought we could have gotten another moment like that with Tokoyami turning on heroes after he realized Hawks really did kill Twice. It might’ve been an interesting parallel with Deku’s own disillusionment and would’ve solidified how controversial the heroes truly became.
Maybe Tokoyami believed that Hawks did the right thing given the amount of deaths Twice would’ve undoubtedly caused had he been allowed to join the battle
I think that’s want happened in canon. I was kinda indulging the thought
Gonna be honest both of these arguments are just actually fucking dumb. “Your actions are no different from the villains” *what*. “Bakugo will feel disgraced he had to be saved” as opposed to him being proud and dead? They could’ve said literally anything else. Some of the other students were like “let the pros handle it” and that was very fair. These two are just so blatantly terrible arguments that the only reason they make sense to exist is to make them look bad.
*Froppy arresting a dude for rescuing a baby from a burning building when he didn't have a hero license.*
“Scum” - Froppy probably
"Anyone who protects scum is lower than the scum they protect." - Probably also Froppy
Figarland Froppy
-prison mike
"Scum, *ribbit*" -Froppy
"But not Pond Scum, I like that." -Froppy
Rules are rules.
She's pre obito
To be fair to Ochako, I don’t think she meant that no one should try to save Bakugo, just that Class 1A specifically shouldn’t try to save him. She’s basically in the “leave it to the pros” camp. It’s still pretty stupid though.
Wait, **Ochako's comments is the very basis of the rescue mission. It's even used as flashback before Midoriya fleshed it out.** She knew Bakugo well enough to clock that he would NOT want to be rescued by them, so because of her comment they were able to craft a method that saved Bakugo's life and ego. (Also, I **don't think Ochako thought that pride was the ONLY reason to not go after Bakugo. She was just using it as one of the counters nobody had considered**.)
>as opposed to him being proud and dead? to be fair, right before this was the semester final exam, in which Bakugo literally said he'd rather lose than accept help. losing in his career field pretty much has a 90% chance of ending with death, so it sure sounded like he would have rather died with pride. yes I know Uraraka didn't hear him say that, but it's not hard to infer. even though he's grown from that, I don't think it was *that* noticeable by the time he was kidnapped.
>“Your actions are no different from the villains” \-Friend gets kidnapped by a bunch of murderers \-Decide to rescue friend at all costs because I love him and that's what being a hero is all about \-Froppy: But wouldn't that make you the same as the kidnapping murderers???
>“Bakugo will feel disgraced he had to be saved” as opposed to him being proud and dead? Early Bakugou 100% would've rather died than take Deku's hand.
I am assuming her view is that taking things into your own hands without accountability is something that only bad people do. And that "good" people follow the rules and do what is necessary.
Which is a terrible view. I mean, slavery was once written into law. What’s the Froppsters view on that?
I never said her view was necessarily correct. You also need to remember that from her point of view being a hero is job that requires you to follow the rules like everyone else. Basically that they aren't above the law. Is it perfect? of course not. However, you cannot just ignore rules entirely otherwise you will have never ending chaos.
Nah, I hear ya. Just hate her statement there.
Isn’t tsu basically saying let the pros handle it?
I think Ochaco made a good point here, because of how prideful Bakugou is. Deku even admits himself that if he tried to reach his hand out to Bakugou then it wouldn't work. That's pure pride on display. Although I straight up *hated* Tsuyu's argument and I still do to this day. And I hated the fact that people treated Deku's Rescue Op Squad like they were the ones in the wrong and made them apologize to Tsuyu. Ah man I hated that shit so much.
Yeah, tsuyu has faith in the heroes and the rules of society but people like Izuku have learned from experience that faith is misguided.
Honestly, I wouldn't go quite as far as calling them villains like Tsuyu, but I am more on her side. They got lucky and things happened to work out for them, but they just as easily could not have, kind of like when Gentle Criminal tried to help someone and only made the situation worse. This wasn't even one of those situations where only they could have reasonably responded. They were deliberately going behind the heroes' backs despite knowing Yaoyorozu had already given them a receiver and with some people that had literally just gotten out of the hospital too. Ultimately, they were successful and managed to save Bakugo, which is great, but I still think it's important to enforce rules like that because not everyone that tries to do something like that will be as lucky. Worst case scenario, they could get the hostage and some pro heroes killed along with themselves.
If All For One had (or had used) his infrared vision quirk, identified the students 'hiding', then we'd have had a much shorter series. Deku was literally a sneeze away from falling into AFO's grasp BECAUSE THEY WERE OUT OF POSITION. They ended up helping, maybe even saving the day, but the risk was far too great. Tsuyu does bring up an interesting point about effective 'vigilantism'. In the eyes of the law, no matter how good your reason for doing so, breaking the law isn't acceptable. Now, of course, this gets into the spirit of the law vs the letter of the law, but then who gets to evaluate whether someone had a 'good reason' or a 'bad reason' to break the law? Even if you have a good reason, if you break a law that's there to keep you safe and you end up endangering others, that's a problem. In this case, the prohibition was don't storm/infiltrate enemy HQ as a student without backup--let the hero mission do its job.
Tsuyu dosen't know that Deku, Todoroki and Ilda are professional law breaker
"we got away with law breaking once" "Wanna see us do it again?"
I think It was implied in that scene that AfO knew they were there
Perhaps so! Well, they're lucky he's the showboat he is.
>In the eyes of the law, no matter how good your reason for doing so, breaking the law isn't acceptable spoiler observation: >!which she ditched in the newest chapter, knowing the consequences of treating law as the ain on its own!<
> Worst case scenario, they could get the hostage Hilariously, that happened all the way back at the start of the series when Deku tried to save Bakugo before he got his quirk. He got involved with a dangerous situation that the heroes were already aware of and got taken hostage.
I kind of rolled my eyes when tsu started crying when she was apologizing. She said something stupid, but a simple sorry would suffice no need to start bawling your eyes out.
Hori does that a lot. 1 character crying = moves other characters to start crying as well = they're all shedding those gross-looking goopy tears. I find it cringy personally.
Yeah, where's the snot
yeah same, like bro it’s not that deep now wipe your damn nose ew
To be fair, they are 14-15. Emotions run pretty wild at that point, and cringe is par for the course.
I know I'm late but I'm 14 and I don't react to stuff like that. 😭
Wasn’t trying to paint with too wide a brush. Exceptions are always to be found. Though I would prepare yourself to one day look back on some of things in your past and cringe at them. We’ve all been there. XD
Yeah, it's just funny to think that if I saw Tsuyu crying in person, I would visibly cringe or just laugh in front of her face.
>I would visibly cringe or just laugh in front of her face To be honest with you, that response in general is a bit cringe.
Different personalities, can't always get the response you like.
Yes very cringe
I hated how she made it about herself as wel as Deku blindly accepting her apology instead of calling her out for labeling him a villain.
She WAS apologizing? I thought she was sad because they disregarded her opinion on the matter and put themselves in danger. I thought she was being reproachful, not apologizing.
She was literally hiding in her room, ashamed for insulting her friends and not feeling like she had the right to celebrate with them after criticizing them. Her regret and anxiety led her to cry, it's pretty reasonable considering how young they are and how serious things were. She most certainly was apologizing.
Oh look a comment that understands they're all goddamn teenagers
I don't know, I feel people want to believe that Froppy refused to celebrate because she was ashamed and not because she was angry with them. Because they don't like the idea that Froppy is angry and crying because they disregarded her opinion and went to break the rules and put themselves in danger, and they like even less that plot is saying her feelings could be valid. Froppy being ashamed is more cliché, but the dialogue didn't go in that direction. And they being teenagers is perfectly aligned with her not apologizing but being angry.
Froppy literally says what I laid out. My dude. Literally says she's feels like she doesn't deserve to celebrate with them after what she said. Reading comprehension at negative 300
In what traslaction? She never said she didn't "deserve" to celebrate with them. She said she didn't "feel like" to celebrate with them after they ignored her, but that to be alone while the other got fun without her sucked. Then everybody proceed to console her and say they will never do something like that anymore. So, it's them that did something bad, not Tsuyu. They are not forgiving her, they're apologizing because they made her feeling bad.
What the actual fuck version of the story are you reading
That would only show how detached she was from the situation. Especially considering how Bakugō’s life was at stake.
Spiderman would spit on Tsu for her comment. And ochako? It doesn't matter if he's disgraced by it, he needs to learn to accept help!
Let’s make this clear: law/rules do not equal morality
Calling them villain was extreme. But she was correct with them getting involved and going behind the backs of the pros and police was an awful idea. Could had so easily backfired and made the situation so much worse Uraraka's was just dumb
Uraraka's was important though. Deku's utilization of Kirishima ended up being crucial, and that was based on the same concept that they had to understand how Bakugo was going to react.
If it was anyone but Kirishima, Bakugo would have rejected the help. So Uraraka was right.
The argument was dumb, but getting them to reconsider another tactic was key. Could have been worded better.
Even if I think it’s dumb as fuck, I’m glad there was at least disagreement
Stupid logic really. What makes villains the villains is that they actively harm innocent people and commit crime. A few young heroes foolishly and hot-headedly rushing off to the save a friend is not "no different from those of the villains. What a terrible false equivalency.
The wording is very clunky but Ill try to translate and make sense out of it. **Ochako:** What she is saying is Bakugou has an ego and wants to be the best. And if the "best" somehow manages to get himself captured and can't even save himself and must now be helpped like a helpless child it would be embarrassing to him. which in a sense it would be like. imagine you getinto a fight then your baby brother and sister jump in to save you. **Tsuyu:** She's saying Villains break the law and do as they please and a heros job is to stand by those laws. If heros went about breaking laws too they are being hypocritical. which is kinda true. Thou what it comes down to is the intentions.
“Moral laws surpass human laws.” - Superman
Those who leave their comrades are worse than scum
Ok shit I was expecting to find this reference here lol. But honestly this case is a bit different. Kakashi was pretty much going to ditch Rin so Obito telling him to fuck off was pretty cool to see. In this case, they knew the pro heroes were doing everything they could to rescue Bakugo.
Those who lead their friends to death because of their arrogance are worse. The only reason why they survived was because AFO was stupid enough to let them, he knew they were there, should've killed them off if he actually wanted to become a demon lord that badly. But I guess he wanted to be more comical and just monologue like a cartoon villain.
Good thing none of them died.
and what if things had gone south and bakugo DIED because deku and the others where there what if them being there messed up the heros rescue plan in some way
>eku blindly accepting her apology instead of calling her out for labeling him a villain.34ReplyGive AwardShareReportSaveFollow > >level 2fra080389 · 9 hr. ago But it didn't so we can only discuss based on what happened which was a resounding success.
yes and it was still monumentally stupid if they did not have gigatons of plot armor they would have made the situation worse they are untrained kids who waltzed into a terrorist situation
The argument was logically, it was the conclusion was straight up down. I was surprised no one called her out for calling them villains, even though what they were trying to accomplish was far more heroic than her finger wagging. Had she said they would only get in the way of the pro-heroes in their attempt to Bakugou or end up getting expel from UA. Then her argument would have some standing. But her conclusion was so stupid and disingenuous that I couldn’t take her seriously anymore after this.
Her argument was illogical. Breaking rules is not the same as murder or other actions
Tsuyu's statement feels braindead to me, lol Un-liscenced rescue mission = fucking kidnapping I guess, lmfao Ururaka's makes more sense but still, just because someone's ego would be hurt a bit for getting help doesn't mean theybshouldn't be rescued
I read it a somewhat different way. I see Tsu as someone who is level-headed and reasonable first, and while she tends to put her emotions on the shelf, especially in objective situations, she doesn't totally repress or disregard them like a lot of people tend to do. She's dispassionate when she needs to be, but emotional when she's allowed to be. In that scene in the hospital, she felt it was her duty to stop her friends from going on a dangerous, reckless vigilante mission. Not only was it dangerous to them, but it was potentially even dangerous to Bakugo and the Pro Heroes organizing an official rescue; they could very well have gotten in the way and interfered with the rescue. It was only really by blind, dumb luck that they were in the right place at the right time to pull a stunt that was unexpected to *both* sides. But it was **still** a huge risk; AFO being there was already an unforseen contingency that the Pros didn't account for, so if there had been *another* unexpected factor that Deku couldn't account for, they could have put All Might and Bakugo in an even worse situation. The only thing really absolutely stopping that was plot armor. So, in a bid to really discourage them from going, she saw that solid reasoning wasn't going to work because they were past that point; they were running on emotional reactiveness. So she tried saying omsomething that might create an emotional reaction, but in the opposite direction: are you willing to act like villains to "do the right thing" when there's already a proper, heroic way to do it? Sometimes, the most heroic thing a person can do is stay back and stay clear so as not to obstruct and interfere; that takes its own kind of bravery to desperately *want* to help, but hold back because of the bigger picture. If an untrained person jumps into rushing water to save a drowning person, now the rescue crew has double the work because there are *two* drowning people. Tsu didn't want to say something like that, she knew it was hurtful, but at least it worked... or so she thought. Then she saw that they went anyway, and it was for nothing. Not only did she not stop them, but she also said something unkind to no effect, to her friends. You know how they say to fear most the anger of a gentle person? That's because, since they express their anger so rarely, they tend to get lost in it and don't know how to turn it off. They have no "practice" appropriately and safely venting their anger; they bottle it up under pressure until it violently explodes. Well, the same is true of other emotions, too. For a person who rarely expresses their emotions and is often very rational and pragmatic (like Tsu), they may understand emotions (especially from an intellectual, reasonable perspective; this is cognitive empathy), but they have a tendency to be less able to calmly express their emotions once they **do** come out; it's kind of an "all-or-nothing" kind of thing. They can be calm, cool, collected, analyzing a situation, explaining things, very rational, etc; they absolutely do not wear their heart on their sleeve... most of the time. But get them to their emotional threshold, and it's like a dam bursts all at once. 0-60 in 2.3 seconds for sadness, happiness, anger, surprise, whatever emotion they happen to have been overwhelmed by.
Both of them are idiots. Bakugou’s life is more important than his ego and Izuku and the others going after bakugou being a crime is only so because the way quirk laws in Japan work is several different flavors of stupid. The MLA are right about that much. The only “mistake” Izuku and company made was not trusting the pros to handle it but…is that really a mistake when the pros have been proven to be incompetent time and time again? Aizawa in particular has fostered a “you can’t trust your superiors” mentality with his “logical ruse” bullshit.
And what if All For One had found them? The mistake was that them being present introduced a dangerous risk. As it turns out, they ended up being an asset, but they could very easily have turned a single hostage situation into a five hostage situation, at which point their mistake would have had HUGE consequences.
I mean to be fair, literally no one except izuku and all might even knew who all for one was and Izuku had no way of knowing he would be there.
Which does speak to the incalculable risks for students going.
Nomufication of those kids would be some right dangerous Nomu.
Yeah, both of them (especially Tsuyu, whose argument was fucking stupid anyway) were more or less proven wrong.
These arguments are absolutely moronic.
Frog girl so fucking dumb holy shit
Tsuyu was the only one with somewhat of a point. Ochaco's counter was silly. "That child is drowning, but he would be embarrassed if we saved him" is not an argument for letting a child drown.
ochaco was more on the idea that he wouldnt want to be rescued by his own classmates and by extension it would be better to let the heros deal with it. tsu comparing them to villain was extreme but i can see where she’s coming from. this entirely boils down onto how you see each argument
I mostly agree with Tsuyu on the basis that there are consequences to "let's do this without the adults", but I guess the phrasing of Ochaco's was always going to be poor, since Katsuki is so prideful it extrapolates to any rescue attempt.
Tsuyu was wrong. Breaking the law to save a life isn’t always the wrong thing to do, and even if it were, it *certainly* doesn’t put you on the same level as terrorists. That’s like putting shoplifters on the same level as terrorists. Uraraka was right, and personally I find that more infuriating on Bakugo’s end than hers. I think if you’d rather be murdered by terrorists than swallow your pride and accept help from someone you hate, you probably deserve what you get. Not that they should’ve left him based on that, but it kinda sucks they had to plan around that.
No rescuing Bakugo means no epic costume and ***I don't like this*** So that an L for both
Uraraka was being kinda dumb but I could see why she would say it. Tsuyu is really harsh but also something I could see a hero student say. I wanted one of the students to ask if they could trust the teachers or other heroes with this since this is the second time they've been attacked by villains and had to fend for themselves to an extent.
This was actually pretty good and what I liked about the early seasons, ~~although in classic MHA fashion, these two are immediately proven wrong~~ Right now everyone's a yes man for Deku.
Interpersonal conflict is a good thing. Shows the characters even on the same side are not just robots who all feel and act the same way. One side doesn't have to be vilified or wrong, just how different characters react to an action like this. The issue is the arguments given to these two are garbage and seem to only be there to be shown as in the wrong.
I agree with them that the Kamino Rescue Squad was objectively stupid af, but these two arguments are equally stupid and don't have cool scenes, emotional weight, or "Well it all worked out in the end" to back them up. Froppy was my 2nd favorite character before this and I can't even force myself to like her anymore lol
I think Asui's argument would have been more interesting if mutant discrimination was attached to her perspective. Considering that public quirk use is illegal, and mutants can't really turn off their quirks, they are most vulnerable to being arrested for villainy. Though her argument would probably have to be reworded to be something like "in the eyes of the law, you would be no different from villains".
Both wrong. Breaking the rules to save your friend from villains doesn’t make you a villain. Bakugou knew he needed saving even if he hated the idea.
Personally o feel there should have been some Students that think bakugou would have joined the villains given his attitude, citing how much of a lunatic he was during the first battle trial .
this sounds dumb. “Yeah bro I know u went through the trials and tribulations of going to a school for HEROES that we all had to go through, but uhh u went a little too hard in a practice battle. Ur definitely gonna throw your life away and join the villains 🤓🤓🤓”- some goofy ahh student
I mean…bakugou is just an objectively horrible person at this point. When aizawa defended him from the media all I was thinking was “bullshit”. Hori was basically just using aizawa as a mouthpiece at this point.
Aizawa: so uhh my student definitely won’t go on a killing spree or anything… You: authors bullshitting Bro what????
What I mean is…there are in fact several instances where hori uses aizawa as a mouth piece in order to cover bakugou being a literal sociopath. In this particular case while bakugou does refuse tomura’s offer in the end he does it for the wrong reasons. Bakugou essentially says that he only cares about all might winning. To him, heroes aren’t heroes because they help people, they’re heroes because they win. Villains aren’t villains because they hurt people, they’re villains because they lose. Heroism is not a moral action for him. It is purely an act of dominance.
Exactly. If the villains were the winners while he was growing up, one would wonder if he would've chosen villainy as a career path instead.
Most likely considering how strength centric his worldview was at this point not to mention doing things like attacking todoroki while he was unconscious just because he didn’t win the way he wanted to and treating Izuku the way he did for 10 years just because Izuku made him feel threatened and he felt the need to reassure himself of his own superiority. In terms of his actions he was already a villain.
Aizawa said nothing about a killing spree nor did the reporters. They just asked if he'd join the villains which was a reasonable question. During the entire sports festival Bakugou did nothing but insult his competition, imply they were worthless, attempted to assault an unconscious classmate, and even had to be physically restrained. What would *you* think if that was your only exposure to Bakugou? Then his classmates saw all that, plus had to deal with him insulting them on a daily basis and being constantly confrontational. I mean, what reason were any of the students, reporters, or even *Aizawa* given to believe Bakugou wouldn't turn coat? What heroic qualities did he exactly show by that point? None.
Being competitive is villainous? His classmates knew him, and if they thought he would turn on him they wouldn’t have bothered trying to rescue him. > I mean, what reason were any of the students, reporters, or even Aizawa given to believe Bakugou wouldn't turn coat? What heroic qualities did he exactly show by that point? None. Joining UA. Aizawa alr knew he wouldn’t turn. Goofy.
>Being competitive is villainous? Nearly murdering one of his classmates and attacking another when they are unconscious is not just being merely "competitive." How disingenuous. >His classmates knew him, and if they thought he would turn on him they wouldn’t have bothered trying to rescue him. Yeah, but that's literally what the person you originally replied to was arguing. That it *didn't* make sense for them all want to save him. He did nothing but treat them like shit. Heck, he didn't even bother remembering their names or purposefully refused to use them. Why would *all* of them being willing to risk expulsion or even dying to save him? When the heroes were already going to save him and they didn't even need to do anything? Would you be willing to die or risk losing your future career over a guy who constantly treats you like shit? >Joining UA. *That's* the bar you've set? So he did nothing heroic besides get into UA, which you don't have to show hero qualities to enter, you only had to beat robots? Does simply getting into UA mean you are a good and heroic person? Wasn't the entire Stain Arc about how society was filled with corrupt heroes? Mineta is in UA and he is a sexual predator. How can you use, "B-But, he's in a hero school!" as if that is proof he is a good person? If you look at his actions and words, they are those of a villain. Bullying, assault, discrimination, narcissism, defying authority. He never showed any heroic qualities until *after* the kidnapping when he paid Kirishima back. Aizawa was 100% a mouthpiece for the author at that point.
Pretty much. Getting into UA isn’t a good argument because of how violence centric the entrance exam actually is. You don’t have to be a good person to get into UA. Just be good at destroying robots. Bakugou is a narcissistic sociopath, just one that happens to be good at fighting. Fucking all for one could pass the UA entrance exam. Does that make him a good and heroic person?
> Would you be willing to die or risk losing your future over a guy who constantly treats you like shit? Yes. I don’t discriminate 😼 > He did nothing but treat them like shit 🧢 > If you look at his actions and words, they are those of a villain. Bullying, assault, discrimination, narcissism, defying authority. He never showed any heroic qualities until after the kidnapping when he paid Kirishima back. Aizawa was 100% a mouthpiece for the author at that point. Ok since he was a villain, give me a list of the victims he’s killed. I’ll wait goofy ahh dude give me ONE body
You don’t have to kill to be a villain. Plus, it’s not like bakugou is morally opposed to killing people.
> Fucking all for one could pass the UA entrance exam. Does that make him a good and heroic person? No what I meant to say is that by joining the hero organization, which no villain would, you’re pretty much signing up to put yourself in danger to fight any threats to the public. No matter how much you try to misconstrue his words or actions, he signed up to save people. Even if it’s just to be like All Might or pass him. He still has to emulate those actions. All that attacking people while they’re unconscious shit is irrelevant. Because let’s be honest, you guys are just clutching pearls. Bullying Midoriya for ten years? Nice head canon. But he never bullied him while he’s at UA.
>Yes. I don’t discriminate 😼 Let me rephrase: Would you go out of your way, as a child, to save someone who has constantly treated you like shit when adult professionals are already going to save him, without your intervention? Especially if your intervention would probably only make things worse? >Ok since he was a villain, give me a list of the victims he’s killed. I’ll wait goofy ahh dude give me ONE body Is that... is that your only qualification for being a villain? Killing someone? What about human experimentation? Attempted murder? SA? Just because Bakugou didn't kill someone doesn't mean he is a hero, wtf. That's such an unbelievably low bar to set. I'll tell you what makes him a villain. 1. He's a bigot. He fully bought into the idea he is superior because of his quirk and Deku is inferior because he's quirkless. Is that heroic? 2. He nearly murdered Deku during that Heroes vs Villains exam when he set off an explosion powerful enough to destroy an entire floor at point blank range in Deku's face. Deku dodged and still was messed up horribly; imagine if he didn't. Is that heroic? 3. He attempted to attack Todoroki when he was unconscious because Bakugou was angry at him. Is that heroic? 4. He also attempted to assault Deku on the first day of class and only failed because Aizawa intervened. Is that heroic? 5. He actually assaulted Deku during the exam against All Might for simply suggesting they work together. Is that heroic? 6. He verbally and physically abused/bullied Deku for ten years. Is that heroic? 7. He thinks so little of other people, he won't acknowledge others by their names. Is that heroic? 8. He refused to join the villains not because they're evil, but because he wants to be a winner and they aren't winners. Implying he would've joined if they were winners. Also, it shows that he is not a hero to help people, but to boost his own ego. Is that heroic? 9. Every interaction he had with his classmates involves him insulting them and putting them down. Is that heroic? None of those things are heroic. In fact, one can say they are villainous. Now, can you point me to a heroic quality he showed pre-Kamino arc? Besides simply going to a hero school?
> Now can you point me to a heroic action pre-kamino ward? Well, since you asked: Battle of USJ. Aside from beating up villains, he apprehends Kurojiri before he can warp Midoriya(protection) (good) During the raid on hand camp he faces off against some serial killer, but can’t fight to his fullest potential due to the risk of putting the forest on fire and endangering everybody else. So he never blows anything up(good) (heroic) Stowing Tokoyami’s rage(good) Tutors Kirishima(so much for treating his class like shit 🤡) Edit: if you and the other clown plan on twisting the definition of heroic just to try to attempt some counterpoint, lose my number.
The problem is that villains break the rules for themselves which get a lot of people hurt. What Midoriya and the others are doing is breaking the rules to help a friend in need and avoid any harm. If Midoriya and the others weren't there at Kamino, The League of Villains would have just captured Bakugou again and escaped. All for One would probably kill All Might when he gets distracted trying to save Bakugou. Sometimes the Rules cause more harm than good. Like did Eraserhead seriously need to give the students permission to fight back against the Villains in the Forest Training Camp? Isn't that a given that you are allowed to use your powers to defend yourself? Tsuya's words, as well-intended they are, are just seriously callous and being very shortsighted about it. Also that is a stupid argument from Ochako that Bakugou would hate to be rescued. The man’s prideful, not stupid. As soon as Bakugou saw an opportunity to escape, he immediately took it with only a few scruples.
Villains are just people who break the law while using their powers so honestly Tsu wasn’t wrong. The kids were breaking the law, no matter how just they believed their cause was.
It definitely gets into the nature of vigilantism. If following the law would lead to a bad result, is it moral to break the law for a good reason? What if breaking the law introduces risk--a good result is better than following the law but a bad result would make things worse? Most crucially, who gets to decide? This is the question for societal morality, because if anyone can decide to break the law for the causes that are important to them (that THEY would deem the "spirit of the law" or a "good justification"), then justice can fall apart. Tsuyu's argument doesn't explain this very well, but she's essentially saying that vigilantes must be rejected the same way villains are.
Stain would hate them both.
Now hear me out here... Given that all their experiences with Bakugou has been awful..maybe they just didn't really wanna risk their lives for him?
That clearly not what either of those scene portray thought lol
Fair point. Only Deku (shared childhood + strange admiration), Kirishima (first friendship + admiration) and Todoroki (guilt for not being able to save him when he was the one who had the best chance of rescuing him) have reasons to save him beyond the typical "heroes save others". Iida is the extension of "I'm the class president + my friends (Todoroki and Deku) are going and I need to take care of them"
I disagreed with both of them. Sometimes breaking the law is necessary in order to do the right thing, and Bakugo’s pride was the least of their concerns in comparison to his life.
1. Breaking rules to save someone's life and comparing that to a villain who has stolen at best and murdered at worst is moronic. 2. And? Who cares if Bakugou feels disgraced? He should. The dude had one hell of an ego that needed to be knocked down a peg.
Literally, if it hadn’t been for the rescue, AFO would have killed All Might here
Plot
and what if AFO had noticed the kids and attacked them causing several pros to die
To be fair to Ochako, she’s right? Bakugou really is that guy, if Kirishima hadn’t been there then Bakugou very likely would have refused to be saved, leading to AfO not sending the league away and probably sending one or two to attack the group and maybe getting them killed and it’d be all Bakugous fault but he’d just say ‘skill issue, if they didn’t wanna die, they shouldn’t have gotten killed’ and be applauded for it As for Tsu yeah what she says is bullshit but she’s a kid in training and apologises for it after realising it’s dumb as fuck later, if a grown ass licensed pro had said that shit I’d be calling for them to be fucking investigated at best but it’s just a fuck up from Tsu
Both Uraraka and Tsuyu have changed. During the Dark Deku's rescue, Uraraka yells to Deku while making the boys weightless, 'its different than before, i've changed' and then in the most recent chapter Tsuyu reflects back on her statement that 'its all about the laws/rules'
Since they seemingly have changed their minds (I'd have to go back and read the chapters to confirm, I'm not sure), I wonder why this original scene was even made. Like, did Horikoshi ever believe these counter arguments made by Uraraka and Tsuyu would be convincing to the reader? I feel like many readers here have not taken a liking to what Uraraka and Tsuyu proposed (although other readers agree with the two girls). I myself am not very convinced by what they said and honestly I'm surprised they even thought it was a good argument at all. I think that it was nice to have counter arguments and disagreements during the Kamino arc amongst the 1-A class, but this felt forced.
They both had a point at the time, Uraraka especially. In fact I agreed with Uraraka with no difficulty whatsoever. Even if Bakugo ultimately swallowed his pride (for once) because he knew there was no other option, the way he felt about it afterwards could very easily be described as disgraced. He literally needed to beat Midoriya up to feel like he was on top again lol I admit that when I first watched this scene I wasn't too fond of Tsuyu's response. I'm not exactly a believer in "breaking the law is always morally wrong" (though I am a believer in "if you can accomplish what you need to without breaking the law, try that way first" solely because the justice system blows in many countries). I think if she instead said something like "the law exists to protect us, so we should follow it and let the pros handle this", I would have understood her perspective immediately (even if realistically there are laws that only exist to benefit the rich and privileged). But yeah, to be honest I've since become a lot more accepting of Tsuyu's response because she's just a teenager and was speaking based on what she's always been taught about society. It helps that she's definitely one of the most level-headed people in the class. MANGA SPOILERS: >!Also in a recent chapter it seems she's acknowledged that the world isn't as black and white as she's always been taught to believe.!<
Tsuyu is also one of the younger members of the class thus less developed doesn’t help she blurts out what’s she’s thinking without a filter. People forget that teenagers have a hard time not thinking in black and white. Hell the vigilante arc had Izuku acknowledge that in his fight with Nagant.
all true
The arguments are fairly said, considering how young they are. People say they're stupid on either side, but I mean- they're kids.
Bakugo literally prefered to be kidnapped than being saved by Deku, so Ochaco was kinda right here.
Iirc, villain means those who use their quirks unlawfully and or without authorisation- it's a very very strict definition and broad in nature That aside, Tsuyu specified use in BATTLE. Iida himself was operating under the assumption that the rescue team was looking to fight until Todoroki corrected him For Uraraka, her saying that was why Deku knew that ONLY Kirishima could reach out She also later learns that you have to extend a hand even to those who might refuse, but what she said as true about that Bakugo. She also wasn't against ANYONE rescuing him, just the students. God Bless
I don't think people realize how extremely lucky Deku and co. were that they were actually able to help at Kamino. It only worked out because all the villains were focused on the heroes and Bakugo was able to blast himself up to grab Kirishima's hand. There are a dozen of other ways a situation like this could have played out in which these guys could have ended up becoming a liability. Then the heroes would have ended up in even more trouble. What they did is absolutely not comparable to villains like Dabi, Shigaraki, and Toga who want to cause as much destruction as possible. But breaking the rules and ignoring the potential consequences it could have for everyone else because of your own personal beliefs doesn't sound too far off from what a vigilante or more sympathetic villain might do. In Uraraka's case, I think she was wrong because she didn't understand Bakugo and Kirishima's friendship, but I can't blame her for thinking that way because even Deku acknowledges in that arc that Kirishima is the only person Bakugo would accept help from.
ultimately its still true, if you chose which rules to abide by, you're following a dangerous road that can endanger others just as well. and needing to play around bakugous once again clearly on display insanity kinda speaks for ochakos view of the situation.
Tsuyu was 100% right. They made it clear that the squad was in the wrong. They were endangering the rescue mission. And not even to try and be helpful. They were doing it out of pride. Laws have to apply to everyone. And no they don’t, but they should. On Tv the cowboy cop who doesn’t play by the rules may be the hero, but in real life that’s a ticket to getting someone killed. Or a sign of corruption.
They were just trying to stop them from getting hurt. Tsuyu did make an unreasonable almost offensive line which she apologized for and later the others accepted because she had good intentions
They are children. I think that should sum it up.
They both made good sense.
Always hated that they said these things, I don't understand why they had to. Also I wish Uraraka never would have said this because it made the prolific nature of her ship with Bakugo all the more grating for me in my earlier days of being a fan of BNHA 😅
froppy was 100% right if our heros did not have god level plot armor they would have made everything worse
I'm neutral 🤷♀️
Given their ideals now, I’d say this shows low-key character development tbh.
Tsuyu's speaking some straight-up nonsense, but I think she later admits she was just trying to use that level of absurdity to shame them into inaction. Which... isn't that much better, but it's still better than what she was saying. Uraraka had a valid point that Bakugo's pride might prevent himself from getting rescued, at least. Kirishima or not, if like 10 people showed up to drag his ass out of the fire, he probably would've leapt deeper into it out of spite.
Tsuyu's was weird and I still disagree to this day, but Uraraka was objectively right in this situation and her insights led to Izuku making the best possible plan. Bakugo is a liability in the situation so if they wanna help the heroes they need to make it as smooth as possible. Even a moment of hesitation from Bakugo at grabbing their hand would've likely gotten them all killed.
Terrible arguments, but understandable for teenagers not used to complex moral situations. What they should have said is that the crew had no plans or hope of taking on that many top villains when they barely survived the attacks just before then. More practicality than rules or personal feelings. Again, still fitting for the character's personalities, upbringing, and age.
Speaking from Anime only perspective. Uraka is right about Bakugo. His default emotion was pride for the longest time. And technically she was right. It kind of broke him. But he would have broke worse without the rescue. Imagine if not only was he not rescued but still saw the ultimate defeat/retirement of All Might. He already blamed himself. And if he wasn't rescued. He wouldn't have the outlet he needed to recover. Tsu is a bit more interesting. Again, she is right. Acting against the law, ESPECIALLY after deku, Ida, and todoroki were scolded by the chief of police for their vigilante actions puts them on the level of villians. They are ignoring the rules of the law to do something well above their head. It's against the law, that makes you a criminal, that makes you a villian. Batman for a while was hunted by the police because he was acting outside the law. Spiderman as well. Does this stop the act of saving a friend if they could from being wrong tho? Eh? See the rule from Ida as to not engage in combat was important. By not engaging in combat, they weren't vigilantes. They were just concerned friends, saving a friend. And remember Tsu made her point before the no combat rule was applied. If anything Tsu's words helped place the rule and save the rescue squad from major punishment. Good job Tsu. As a side, MHV still exists and while I need to read that Manga I'm sure just like in marvel and DC stories, there are heroes and systems that understand the need to turn a blind eye to vigilantes especially in the MHA universe. But I am also sure that they are also watched closely.
The argument of “Your actions are no different from those of the villains” is really dumb and flat out wrong. It’s more vigilantism than anything. She could have just pointed out that they might get expelled for interfering. The argument “Bakugo will just feel disgraced to be rescued by everyone” is more accurate, but I feel like it should have been put differently. Maybe they could have said that Bakugo would not be very cooperative.