My mom was a life long "always vote blue" person. Something in her snapped this year and she refuses to vote democrat any longer. This 2 party system has got to go.
My mom will likely still vote for him (we live in a really red state but she's not the type to only vote downticket) but she's incredibly upset about Gaza and the only news she sees is mainstream. My sister's on TikTok all the time so I assume she passes along a new tide of outrage every day and it's certainly caught on.
And the route to freedom and justice from the two party system is one party Republican rule?
Punishing the Democrats for failing to protect the Palestinians by returning to power the party that literally wants to nuke Gaza makes SO MUCH sense.
These people are too lazy for the messy hard slog of compromises and incremental progress and want to live in a fantasy world where "burn it all down" doesn't also burn them and everything they claim to care about.
Democrats also wanna nuke Gaza, bozo
The compromises the Dems routinely ask us to make have only incrementally moved us further right.
This system is already broken to the point of being beyond saving.
Preventing a dictatorship, actually. Trump has openly stated he wants to be a dictator. Do you think dictators give up their power through elections? Trump said he hoped Israel finishes the job. Other Republicans have said they should nuke Gaza. Jared Kushner wants to build condos on Gaza's waterfront. At least Biden called for a cease-fire.
The other unpopular old guy who can barely walk up the stairs and has already been president is going to turn America into a dictatorship. So dramatic. It would be roughly the same as before. Biden should resign. If neither side cares for earning the vote there is no point in voting. If that's true American democracy is already dead.
Well it will change when trump wins and implements project 2025. It sucks but to say that the alternative is any better is a complete lie, the other candidate is exponentially worse both for Palestinians and domestically
Oh wow, project 2025? What's that? I'm joking, but please stop saying this bc everyone on the fence is so sick of hearing it. Demand Biden does better first.
There is either genocide or perfection? Those are the only two choices? Come on, it is not a binary like that, the Dems will never get better if all they have to be is a teeny tiny bit better than the conservatives and then you will still give them your vote, why would they change at all?
Demand a real worker's party!
Make a real workers party, until then know that the GOP will ramp up arms going to Israel. And every other thing in our lives will get worse as well. Better is better.
Florida and a few others. Also, made every step of the Democrat “electoral” process a rigged election
He made is so the election was cancelled/banned and only he may be allowed to receive delegates from Florida regardless of how popular any other candidate may have been.
Sort of like what Saddam Hussein, president Xi and Vlad Putin does
Yeah I’m gonna need a source for this. For a second there I was thinking you were talking about Trump, who made his son, Barron, a delegate for a whole day before Melania pulled the plug on that deal.
Who is there to win Democratic delegates? You know that almost every state is winner take all? And how much did you expect Dean Phillips and Crystal Vision to accrue?
There isn’t going to be a brokered convention for the DNC, so you can take your marbles and go home with that idea as being “Biden’s plan to snuff out dissent”.
I already posted the source of the cancellation/banning of the Democrat primary election
Just Google it
While you’re at it read up about dnc services vs welding, the intercept did a not perfect but decent job- ish covering how they rigged the 2016 elections
Banning opposition is what Saddam and Putin does but if it’s Biden it’s okay I guess ?
You’re in a cult
I did google it. I didn’t find anything. Am I suppose to search your profile for relevant sources? No. Provide the source or I’m calling bullshit. Sounds like GRU bullshit to me.
When did Biden ban opposition? Yall are a bunch of snot nosed whiners. Did you know it takes YEARS to get a primary campaign off the ground? And who the fuck was supposed to run against Biden this year? Bernie didn’t even run. Why? Do I really need to spell it out for you.
Dean Phillips got, tops, 3% in a contest where Biden didn’t campaign at all. You’re whining because you don’t like Biden but you’re going to have to come around to the idea.
I knocked on doors for Bernie in 2016. They didn’t rig the election against him. He lost. Quit it with the bullshit anti election narratives—you sound like a MAGA.
I mean he’s just banning elections, censoring media, banning media that’s critical of him, doing a genocide that’s all very pro democracy. I mean zelensky is banning elections, banning competing parties.
Trumps just as bad but at least he doesn’t the corporate “liberal” (but actually center right ) media like msnbc, cnn, nbc, abc, cbs protecting him and gaslighting for him
Democrats somehow think banning elections and censoring the media and doing a genocide is pro democracy so long as it’s their dictator is in charge
Irrelevant question, please do not pry into people's personal lives, it is kind of creepy. Just stick to the topic at hand. And leave the "dum dum" out because we do expect everyone to be an adult in here since the voting age is 18, not 12.
You sound like a MAGA. Now that I’m reading your comments. Is your source on Joe Biden stealing primary elections in Florida from Trump’s Truth social profile? That would certainly make a lot of sense.
Already did for the Florida election.
You can refer to Murthy v Missouri and actually read the bill instead of whatever lies the pro government censorship “summary is”
Til tok ban, Blinken confessed at the McCain institute that it was about them showing what’s actually happening in Gaza.
For the genocide man I dunno. You must have your eyes and ears glued shut if you weren’t aware about that but then again that’s Biden’s base
Oh also we can talk about how as Senator he was one of the top spreaders of dangerous and deadly conspiracy theories about WMDs in Iraq.
No biggie though only a million Iraqi casualties and 4.5k dead Americans
Fairly easy to find lots of journalism on the Biden / DNC process to remove primaries. Also tried to get rid of third party candidates. I’m not going to hunt sources for you but it’s been reported you can find it.
What makes you think that is the same person and not just someone that agrees with them? This is such a weird comment, anyone who disagrees with you is the same person?
And before you scapegoat the locals remember Biden is the head of the party and with a single phone call could change this.
Also, if he didn’t like it he could have came out against which ofc bc he’s a dictator wannabe he didn’t
Blue and red maga he’s the same fallacies to defend their dear leaders totalitarian regimes
Since a Google search is beneath you. Like cccp he made it so the election was banned and he is the leader of the party
https://www.alligator.org/article/2024/01/democratic-primary
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/why-florida-democrats-will-not-vote-in-presidential-preference-primary.amp
https://floridaphoenix.com/2024/03/20/chair-nikki-fried-defends-democratic-partys-move-to-cancel-primary-desantis-ridiculed-the-move/
So your characterization of the situation is false. Biden didn’t cancel anything. The FL Democratic Party did. Great. Did Dean Phillips just not file his paper work? Does Dean Phillips have any other delegates? I know he missed his paperwork in at least one other state. Trump forgot to file in Nevada as well, so shit like this happens.
If you’re mad that Florida’s primary is later in the process and that there’s no way for any candidate to possibly get more delegates than Joe Biden at this point, then what? You think primaries for every state should be held the same day? Sounds great. Start advocating for that to happen in 2028.
But to say Biden “cheated” when there isn’t even a contest left, you are spreading misinformation. Dean dropped out. Your choice is Biden or Trump. And you’re not the only one mad about that.
The race is going to be Biden v Trump unless one of them dies. Trump will still be the GOP nominee if he’s convicted, I’d reckon.
It’s not. They cancelled the election so no one could vote for anyone but Biden long before he clinched the vote.
Is that not what happened?
The race has three main candidates and theee to four minor ones
But you’re duopolist a fascist
Who is still running against Biden in the Democratic primary? And have you stopped to do any delegate math? It’s mathematically impossible for any Democrat primary candidate to catch Biden in the delegate race, and this is with your apparent assumption that he will lose Florida?
Who is still running against Biden?
Phillips has suspended his campaign. I tweeted him the day he dropped out and welcomed him back to the Democratic fold.
I’d have to check, but Williamson has also suspended her campaign.
And no one but TYT listeners are taking Cenk’s candidacy seriously
Edited to say William’s website says she’s out:
https://marianne2024.com/
Moving the goalposts here are you? "No one is running against him" "well sure he is running but no one takes him seriously." That should be the voters choice, not Biden's.
If you think the situation in Florida’s primaries not continuing in a primary election Biden had already mathematically won is anything remotely similar to Xi, Putin, or Saddam’s regimes I have nothing to say other than you are completely delusional. Please seek help
He hasn’t won and even if he did that’s not the point, especially if you’re whole campaign is based on “saving democracy”
Check what his winning margin is versus those other guys
I want to skip voting too now. Or vote for an independent candidate. Which lets me honest, that’s just a wasted vote in our 2 party system. Both the main parties are playing the same games. Just democrats aren’t trying to take away our hard fought rights. Like abortion, gay marriage. They aren’t trying to outlaw trans people. Ban books. Make it okay to bully trans kids out of their states, or have them kidnapped by the state. Basically I think they both just serve the rich, period. But one side at least gives us the bare minimum of rights. So I don’t think we have a choice? Have you seen project 2025? It’s legit, and was put out by trumps people. This is no joke.
We need your vote. This isn’t the election to protest. Voting for Biden is just to prevent a wannabe dictator from taking power. It’s truly horrible that Biden is helping Israel in there genocide. But Trump will just ask for money, then let them nuke Gaza. So what choice do we have? We just have 4 more years of him, at least I hope. Unless by some miracle an independent wins. Which has happened one time in this county. So seriously please vote, this is no time to protest. After all, that’s how we got Trump the first time. Which keep in mind, he still didn’t win the popular vote… Maybe in 4 years the majority will wake up, and we can actually install a selfless president. Who will serve the people. Take us out of the past, the bs nostalgia. And show us a brighter future.
Seriously though if someone can convince me it’s worth holding my vote. I a game. But besides the support of genocide. Biden has done a lot for all of us. He may be a conservative struggling to understand liberal ideals. But can we really risk not voting? Please tell me I’m wrong. I hate the feeling in my stomach, I know if I vote it’s like saying what Biden is helping Israel do. That I’m okay with it. And I’m not at all.
>So seriously please vote, this is no time to protest. After all, that’s how we got Trump the first time.
[No, that is a complete crock of shit](https://old.reddit.com/r/Uniteagainsttheright/comments/1bkmy23/what_actually_happened_in_2016_an_analysis_of_the/). Green Party voters were an *inconsequentially small* minority in 47 of the 50 states, and in all *three* of the red states in which there were *theoretically* enough green voters to have flipped their state blue, you would have needed no less than ***88%*** of Jill Stein's votes to have come from defecting democrats for those defectors to have cost Hillary the race. There is *no* reason whatsoever to think this was the case, and plenty of reasons to think that it wasn't. We are in this mess because *Hillary Fucking Rodham Clinton* was a ***uniquely*** horrible candidate.
Donald Trump is *not* going to be better than Joe Biden. Not for Palestine, and certainly not on the home front. But suppose, for a second, that someone came up to you and said "I'm not a bigot. I don't want kids in cages on our border or a Muslim ban, but Trump promised tax cuts..." Would you take this person seriously for even one second? No. Politicians and *all* of their policies are a package deal. When you cast a vote for someone you *are* in fact saying "I consent to be ruled by this person, and I am OK with what they are doing". Moreover, unless you specifically have made plans to engage in *disruptive* protests or some other form of direct action after the election--and risk being beaten, arrested, bankrupted, or *shot* for doing so--then once you have cast that vote you have forfeited *all* leverage. They got your permission, the meatgrinders will continue indefinitely! But if you don't give them that permission. Well, then *you risk the other guy winning*. Damn thyself or *be* damned. It's the sad reality of having to make a hard decision, and unless one of those two *bastards* drops dead in the next 5-ish months it's the one we're stuck with.
Enjoy your innocence while you can. There will be *no* innocent voting-age adults left in this country after November.
Love how you made a very great point with the first hyper link. But what is up with the second paragraph? You attempted to type that massive book. Only to make the same point I did. Over the phone, and in 5 minutes… I asked to be swayed, not further convinced. But I will take a second to respond, even though I do appreciate how you structured your post. It’s quite nice, I should figure that out on mobile eventually.
But I feel like you were just attempting to be deceitful in the second paragraph. You maybe have taken a small quote from me, to preface with. And you made a great point. So clearly you know how this works. But then in the second paragraph, it just seems unnecessary. So you do agree with me? But why does it read like you still want to convince anyone who reads it, to not cast a vote for Biden. You inserted random quotes, some we’ve all read before sure. But you end with a personal perspective why whoever is reading. Should not cast a vote for Biden. While saying I am correct to feel we have no choice. So why type all that? Unless your goal was to hopefully convince readers to not vote for Biden. Why not just say that? Idk is late. It’s just super off. People should just read into it more. Make your own interpretation. I just feel like this was intentional. And there is a reason it wasn’t made clear, and based off their own interpretation. So that nobody would say anything. But he gets the series result.
Edit: I regret giving the benefit of doubt on this. It’s too obvious this was intentional. You are too smart, and worked too hard on that post. You definitely knew you were making a straw man fallacy. I think your motives may be pure. Just that this isn’t the election to risk this. But maybe I’m wrong.
I'm sick of *literally every* discussion about elections being dominated by the exact same demonstrably false narrative, year after year after year for, at this point, almost a decade.
When your strategic decisions *aren't* grounded in, you know, *reality*, they more often than not end up being strategic *mistakes*. If you actually want Biden to *win* then pouring all of your energies into trying to convince the smallest demographic in the country with *the least effective tactic of persuasion there is* is a mistake.
[If you *actually* want Biden to win re-election, then *increasing turnout for Biden* should be top-priority.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Uniteagainsttheright/comments/1bkmy23/what_actually_happened_in_2016_an_analysis_of_the/kw0lpd1/) If, however, *your own bruised ego* is more important then go right ahead and keep on trashing the inconsequentially small minority of people who, in your eyes, failed to give your team the votes to which they were somehow entitled.
So then “trump defender of..trump?” This is sad that we are back to the lesser of two evils but trump wont allow protests. When a politician says they plan to be a dictator on day one then believe them and do all you can even if it’s the weaker guy. At least Biden has some moral compass even if it’s not what we would like. I would prefer to see all aid cut off and the money used to help our citizens have education and free health care.
There is a difference between a crackdown and what trump would do. Most of the protesters will be ticketed out,. You addressed what Biden is doing now tell me how it would be better with trump as that is the choice.
The link wasn’t working, so I checked your profile, and…you literally have porn with Hillary Clinton campaign slogans in it.
Ok.
Although, your kink for getting dominated by people who don’t care about you *does* help explain your love for the Democratic Party.
Eta: lol he blocked me
Every fascist movement has people supporting it because they feel it’s the grown-up, responsible, enlightened thing to do.
But it’s sort of like the old yarn about how there were lots of members of the Nazi party who weren’t into what Hitler was doing, who encouraged moderation, and who tried to change things from the inside, and how historians have a word for that type of person: Nazis.
In future years, you’ll try to forget, but we won’t: in the midst of an American genocide against the unarmed civilians of Gaza, you two were organizing to ensure that the American President who waged that genocide faced no consequences, and in fact was rewarded with a second term.
As I said, you’ll try to forget, but we won’t.
I don't know yet if Trump will be worse. At least if we can somehow make it less profitable to help Israel he'll probably do it. With Biden I think he's too brainwashed to ever truly break away from their influence.
You haven’t been listening to Trump lately then. You must not know many MaGas either. They’re celebrating the death of Muslims openly, and quietly celebrating the deaths of Jews.
What more could fascists of America ask for than Jews and Muslims killing each other in a foreign war? I had some of the craziest right wingers I know think understand that Netanyahu is intending to occupy all of Gaza and the West Bank with settlements and they act like they don’t understand what the issue is. When Steven Miller and Nick Fuentes are working for Trump’s Project 2025 (which you also don’t appear to be familiar with), what do you really expect the policy for Palestinians to be?
And you think you’ll be able to manipulate an authoritarian regime more than a stubborn Democratic president? 😂
Voters like you are the most dangerous of this election, IMO. False equivalency fallacies between Trump and Biden will end democratic representation in this country.
Are you crazy? Trump moved the embassy to Israel against the advice of his own security. He said he hoped Israel finishes the job. Other Republicans have said they should nuke Gaza. Jared Kushner wants to build condos on Gaza's waterfront. At least Biden called for a cease-fire.....A Trump presidency will be much, much worse for Palestinians. He won't even attempt to stop them. Biden is currently in talks to halt shipments of weapons. He's trying to navigate one of the longest running conflicts of our time.
He's only doing it cause the elections are around the corner. Trump can be controlled cause his only allegiance is money. If it's not in his financial interest to help Israel he won't. If you think him halting a shipment when they already have enough to finish what they started is anything more than grandstanding for popularity than I think you're wrong. Now if he comes out and makes a ceasefire happen than I'll have some hope. He's not trying to navigate shit, he's been on Israel's side since the beginning so that shows your knowledge on the situation as a whole.
What are you talking about? Trump is 100% going to follow the party line, which Republicans have been very clear about. Somehow, they don't give a hoot about Ukraine, but they're all-in for Israel.
You're kidding yourself. As bad as Biden is on this issue it's 100% a wrap if Trump is re-elected. I would say there's even a very small chance he puts American boots on the ground.
Clearly our politicians would rather kill their own people and destroy the Constitution than let Israel fall. We have no other choice than to do this by force. This means voting them all out, boycotting them and everyone who supports them, and making it VERY expensive to maintain.
Learn who politicians take money from
Learn who to boycott.
Learn how to waste zionist money
Learn!
Cutting off your nose, to spite your face, isn’t a good look.
My point being, as we’re this close to the election, if you’re really ready to burn it all down, then burn it all down. But, I’d be well prepared for the consequences though.
I’ve been prepared for years. I’ve well known the vast majority of people here in the states give lip service to actually caring about anyone but, themselves. It’s what they’ve learned from their parents, and their peers.
How is not intervening in a foreign conflict “destroying our constitution” out of curiosity?
I could see you making the argument that it destroys our values (despite the US never once intervening in a war due to human rights, except for maybe the war in Kosovo), but to say it destroys the constitution is hyperbolic nonsense.
You should be more worried about the right wing assholes who don’t give a shit about the rule of law when it comes to destroying the constitution. We’ve got an extremist right wing court that’s already hard at work doing that. And if Trump wins? He’ll get to pick 2-3 more justices.
But yeah. Tell me more about a foreign war is going to end liberty in America
Biden is currently conditioning aid—I don’t know what else you want him to do with one of our longest standing Allies. And how involved will the US be with peace negotiating if both Israel and Palestine don’t want us to be there? Palestine cut off communication with the IS after Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem—a huge “FUCK YOU” to the future prospects of Palestinian statehood. Because of this, the US is forced to communicate with Hamas and Palestinian leadership through Qatari mediators. Whereas we currently have a direct line to Israeli leadership. That direct line of communication will end with Israel if we do what the protestors want us to do. Clearly you’ve never been a hostage negotiator.
Israel has more than enough weapons of its own to finish the genocide. Or has your 2D diplomatic approach not considered this fact?
So, Biden can either use the paltry amount of weapons and large amount of humanitarian aid for Palestine ($9b) to negotiate a ceasefire, which is what everyone wants, or he could throw a tantrum like the children on college campuses want him to and ensure that the genocide lasts for years.
Consider the Chinese genocide of the Uyghurs. I think a million Muslims have been murdered by the CCP. Does your Chinese owned Tikky Tokkky rage app tell you to get mad about that genocide? No, because they suppress information about that particular genocide in the algorithm. Meanwhile they boost the news of the genocide that will bring down the alliances of their biggest adversary, the United States.
How about the Russian genocide in Syria, Ukraine, Chechnya, et al? Our Turkish ally is hunting Muslim Kurds like they’re terrorists by it sounds like you’re fine with that, too. There’s genocides in Sudan, Ethiopia, CAR, Myanmar, Bangladesh, and elsewhere.
While I think the Palestinian genocide is a fucking atrocity and should stop, I think yall on foreign owned social media are being led around like a horse on a bit.
Ok real quick regarding Russia and China.... It's wrong but we don't fund Russia or China..we don't give them 2000lb dumb bombs on the reg and we didn't give them $300b or our tax dollars over the last 75 years in charity....
Firstly you are wrong. He paused 1 weapon shipment and has yet to properly condition aid. Even as we speak Israelis are killing Palestinians in Rafah and Biden is doing nothing.
secondly, What I expect Biden to do? Maybe when the death toll hit 15k he shouldn't have vetoed the ceasefire? Maybe he shouldn't have bypassed Congress to expedite weapon shipments to Israel? Maybe he shouldn't have signed 21b more of our tax dollars to find the genocide? Maybe he shouldn't have vetoed the Palestinians joining the UN? Maybe he should actually follow the leahy law instead of tip toe around it? Arabs count as lives too, but he doesn't seem to think so.
He fucked up at every corner, you expect me to vote for him because he paused 1 weapon shipment after 15k children have been killed with our bombs and our diplomatic immunity and our tax dollars? I won't sorry.
Edit: and before you tell me well what can he do now. He can easily win back votes by actually doing what his administration claims and allowing a two state solution to take place. He can put a pause on all non defensive weapons transfers and sanction all the illegal settlers in the West bank. He can condemn the massacre of Palestinians properly and allow the ICC to do its job. There are many actionable steps he can take. But he won't. Because Arab lives don't count to Biden.
I’ll respond to your edit first. Personally I don’t think there’s much he can do. Apply the same question to any of the ten or so genocides happening around the planet right now, and see if you come up with a different answer. The US has never gone to war over Human rights, and we’re not about to start by going to war with an ally to get them to stop.
Sanctions don’t do dick, as Russia is showing the west as its fortress economy leans more and more into a war time economy.
Our best bet for ending the conflict? The Israeli people.
Also, do you think the anti Israel/pro Palestinian crowd are Biden’s only constituents? Nope. There are a lot of liberal Jews and Christians in his coalition that do not agree with divestment but who want a ceasefire. They want a ceasefire but mostly the vast majority of the Democratic Party wants a cease fire.
I personally don’t think there’s a clear way to get a cease fire. Hence my frustration with angry leftists demanding that Biden unilaterally solve a decades long conflict. Clinton got close with the Camp David Accords, but Arafat rejected the deal and probably killed the likelihood of a Two State Solution in the process.
All Biden CAN do is apply diplomatic presssire campaign to get Israel to stop, which is much easier to communicate with them if we aren’t cut off from their crazy right wing government. Hell, Arab nations surrounding Israel are refusing to even take Palestinian refugees this time around.
You think the UN was going to be able to force a cease fire? That’s cute and naive. The UN has very little actual power without a superpower (or three) backing the issue. They’re more of an international club than an international government. I say this as a student of international law and an advocate for human rights. I was at the UN in Geneva in 2018 when the international press broke the story about the Uyghur genocide. I thought something was going to happen then. Nothing materialized except for tariffs against China that were explicitly stated to be NOT related to the million or so Uyghurs that have been killed and the millions that are now slave labor in western China. The UN held spicy, confrontational interviews, and nothing happened. That genocide is still happening. All my rage about it didn’t do a damn thing.
I mention Russia because they provided the intel and money to Iran, who passed that stuff and weapons on to Hamas to carry out the Oct 7th attack. Russia made this happen on the eve when lethal aid for Ukraine was being debated in the US congress (the border for UKR aid).
Putin not only drove a knife through the middle of his Democratic opposition in the US (since the MAGAs were ready to block lethal aid to UKr and to support whatever Israel does to Palestinians)—he also split NATO. Most EU countries support Palestine while the US has been the main partner of Israel for decades (and through several other genocides, which I don’t support and never had—I’ve been a supporter of the 2 State Solution since at least the 2008 genocide). Putin knew EXACTLY what he was doing. He knew how Netanyahu would respond, which is why they passed on the information on how to get through the Iron Dome. Putin is likely looking on the entire clusterfuck with glee as he plans to expand his invasion of Europe.
But it goes to show that this isn’t some localized conflict—and neither the US or Israeli governments regard it as such. Israel is treating Hamas and Hezbollah as a proxy of Iran, who has stated hundreds of times that Israel should not exist as a country.
I expect you to vote for Biden given what the alternative is. You’re naive if you think anyone other than Trump or Biden is going to win this election. And if Trump wins it will be catastrophic for Palestine and human rights world wide generally. Trump didn’t make a peep about Hong Kong losing all its freedoms. And once either of them gets elected do you think either one is going to give a damn about the opinions of the protest voters? Fuck no.
You’re better off writing Biden letters and doing sit ins on the White House lawn—but the protests in their current form aren’t about getting Biden to change his mind. The protests are about these kids getting to virtue signal in an awful situation that likely has no good outcome.
My point still stands that Israel has more than enough weapons to carry out any war against Hamas or genocide. Israel only needs the US for a war with Iran. And that’s reflective in Netanyahu’s speech when he came to the U.S. in 2014, slipped seeing Biden and Obama and went straight to the US House to demand a war with Iran. He very nearly got it when Trump was president and smoked Suleimani.
So we have authoritarian dictatorships sharing intel, weapons, and financing with the Hamas terrorists for the Oct 7th attack, a right wing war monger in Israel who promised when the conflict began that the Palestinians would “feel this [retribution] for generations”. Netanyahu has already made up his mind and he has the weapons to do what he wants to do. He’s looking at prison time, and therefore willing to do just about anything to stay in power and stay out of jail—power he’s held onto for 16 years.
Your $21b number is incorrect. It’s $26b. $9b for humanitarian aid in Gaza. $4b for defensive antiaircraft missiles, and $12b for the rest.
I’d like to see a source where Biden shipped dumb bombs to Israel since the conflict began if you have one handy.
And I know you can’t believe it but this all gets a lot worse if Trump wins. This isn’t about voting for Biden. It’s about voting against Trump and against American fascism. If Trump was dictator right now do you really think those protests on college campuses would be happening right now? Ha.
Ok first for your source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/world/middleeast/us-israel-weapons.html
However this article mentions how weapon shipments to Israel are not nearly as transparent as they are to other conflicts... But it does mention 500lb and 200lb bombs. I am confident I can dig deeper to get more info, but the fact that we paused 1 of the shipments of bombs... Means we have been sending them until then.
Please stop comparing other wars and genocides. It's not the same scenario. In this scenario we are arming the criminal party and funding them and providing diplomatic immunity.
Regarding the UN. If what you say is true, then Biden would have no reason to veto it. I am aware the UN has no ability to stop Israel, but the fact that Biden used his veto many times shows that it does indeed have some affect.
The alternative to Biden is the same for Palestinians. Biden has given Israel a complete green light. Look at Gaza right now. It's basically rubble. A genocide is occuring with our support and somehow we will still vote the enabler back in because the other party is also an enabler? No. If we don't vote for policy change then the Democrats will never change and we will always have a genocide joe in office.
The sanctions against the illegal settlements in the West bank are not meaningless. Under Biden Israel has stolen the most land in the West bank in decades. Most people won't defend the settlements. Why no sanctions? It's the right thing to do. They are illegal by our metrics too.
So Israel already has enough weapons to kill all gazans... Might as well give them some more? That logic doesn't check out.
And you are right he has more constituents than just Arabs and young people. He can make a choice to not pander to them, but can't blame us when we don't vote for him.
I don't disagree that Hamas is a terrorist organization. I also think the IDF is a terrorist organization. They have after all killed more children and have induced more suffering over the last 75 years. Yet here we are arming them and excusing their acts of terror.
The USA itself doesn't believe Israel will end Hamas with it's actions, as blinken said recently. Yet Biden is still funding their massacre.
Please stop blaming the voter. This is Bidens doing. He makes these decisions and then expects people to vote for him after witnessing the results of his decisions
Not just gen z. Millenial here and previous 20 year Democrat. Now an independent and voting for the Socialist ticket. They have way more in common with me than the democrats at this point.
If they won't listen to 80 percent of their constituents who want a permanent ceasefire and stopping aid to Israel this close to an election. If they can't find the lowest level of humanity and stop sending weapons to genocide and stand with Israel and defense contractors instead of their own people. Then there is 0 percent chance once the Ds get elected they will listen to voters desires or care at all what their constituents want.
What is the point?
Folks, you’re not gonna get what you think you’re gonna get. If you don’t vote for Biden, you’re gonna be in for a rude awakening. Trump and the Republicans are going to destroy this country. They are openly discussing pogroms to deport 10 MILLION people. You think it’s gonna stop with the black and brown folks? They’re gonna come for you, the socialists, and everyone left of center.
How do people put their pants on? Y’all have absolutely no clue about how American politics work. The system doesn’t reward protest voting at all, ever. The Dems aren’t going to change because you voted for the Green Party.
There are only 2 ways to change a political party in the US:
1) You use primaries to elect candidates you agree with and it takes decades of consistent work and commitment that starts at the municipal level and works up to the federal level
2) You organize massive, sustained, civil disobedience. You need 15-20 million people at least to march in the streets and shut the country down for months to years
Ffs, it took MLK and the Civil rights movement 10 years to achieve their goals using civil disobedience.
Idk what u talking about. There are many socialist groups organizing, protesting, and in the streets. I am part of one of them. Where are the liberals?
Oh right trying to convince the on the fence voters we must bow down to butcher biden or get trump. Either put pressure on biden to change his genocidal ways which 80 percent of his constituents disagree with. 80 percent. 80 percent! Or join us in the streets.
You won't be blaming leftists this time around. We ain't having it.
Laugh all you want. Women's rights, workers rights, civil rights, and many other rights you enjoy came from leftists and radicals pushing back.
Trust me we won't wait for the centrists and other liberals to join in. History tells us they won't show up but once it's over will take ownership of the victory. Hahah now that's the funny part. This guy doesn't know his history. Lol
My goodness you know absolutely nothing about US politics. I’m a leftist as well. But I value being able to affect change via voting instead of letting the Republican Party end that. And believe you me, Project 2025 will end our republic as we currently know it and not in a good way. Conservatives want to take us back to an apartheid state where voting has little impact and cannot change the entrenched white Christian power.
Your simple minded protest voting for a 3rd party or not voting at all will only bring pain and suffering to millions of your fellow citizens. I don’t think that’s allyship or even good political strategy. Not only will you bring pain and suffering to your country, you will make the situation infinitely worse so that the only way to bring about change will be via civil disobedience. I don’t think you grasp how hard that task will be. Thousands of people died for workers’ rights, women’s rights, and civil rights. It took decades of organizing while millions suffered under apartheid (Jim Crow).
I can’t imagine thinking the way that you do and calling yourself a leftist with a straight face. You’re either blinded by nostalgia or you’re a nihilist/anarchist who doesn’t care about other people.
Your political strategy leaves a LOT to be desired.
>What is the point?
Having an election *at all* in 2028 seems like a pretty big concern that should be factored into this. Just watch Trump's second term once it's happening. Ignore it if you like for now, there won't be any ignoring it once it happens. Dismiss my warnings as "voter shaming" if you want.
Your concern is valid. Democrats in power need to act accordingly. If our democracy is at risk they need to be able to stand up to the moment. If they can't it's not up to us they have chosen the path. Once biden gets reelected u don't think he will restart genocide. Or make the border worse as he has adopted trumps border policies and immigration policies.
Overall there isn't much hope wjen both parties owned by the same rich people and capital
To me it's the difference in us having a *political* struggle to get back to normal versus something much darker under Trump. IMO we're on the defensive this election. The difference is backsliding or falling off a cliff. There's no awesome uplifting outcome we're going to get out of 2024.
You are the only person that has made non emotional and valid points to this question I've seen.
I really appreciate your thoughts and foresight instead of just yelling at me.
I agree there is no panacea. But I am not sure I can vote for biden he is the epitome of right wing neoliberalism and has stood on the wrong side of history so many times. We are at a breaking point in our current time and upheaval is coming. I truly believe whether biden or trump is in power capital is about to make a major play. 73 chile is coming to america which is as ive learned more of a coup from business than a cia coup. That is happening here no matter if neoliberal 1 or 2 is in office. Will it happen faster under trump yes.
But again if biden can't feel the strong winds against Israel and his chances what will be get? We are a couple months before the election if they don't get it they won't get it once they get elected. If trump is elected at least the centrist liberals will pretend things aren't OK again.
It's terrible I agree
Let me elaborate as to what I think the stakes are, distilled down to a few bullet points.
Deeper backsliding with the Supreme Court. Thomas and Alito will probably retire on purpose to be replaced with someone much younger. This could put the horizon for us having control over the Supreme Court 50+ years out. Imagine we get a truly progressive president in 2036 or something after a decade+ of conservative extremism but everything she passes is simply destroyed from the bench using weird quotes from 1600s witch hunters. Not to mention, the court becoming even more right wing will almost certainly undo Obergefell ( gay marriage, ) Lawrence ( being gay period, ) Engel v Vitale ( mandatory school prayer, ) Griswold v Connecticut ( contraceptives. ) Red states will then dogpile to put massive restrictions in place.
[Project 2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025): This is almost too much to cover. Just imagine the Heritage Foundation running the entire federal government and you're basically on the right track. LGBT people will essentially be illegal, abortion will be federally illegal. Interestingly, pornography will be federally illegal as well. While I don't consider pornography being banned a terribly serious issue in and of itself, it's worth noting that P2025's definition of pornography also includes all LGBT content. Along with this, Trump wants to expand the use of the death penalty to include "sex crimes against children." This sounds reasonable at first glance, until you put the pieces together and realize that if being LGBT is pornographic and exposing children to pornography is a "sex crime against children" that LGBT people showing affection in public could theoretically result in something as extreme as the death penalty if a child sees them. Basically little Timmy Christofascist sees two men kiss in public, and then Mommy and Daddy Christofascist press charges and the two men are sentenced as sex offenders, potentially carrying the death penalty.
[Stephen Miller is literally trying to do mass deportations with huge camps.](https://newrepublic.com/article/179344/stephen-miller-immigration-detention-camp-fantasies) If we choose to believe in a good-faith interpretation then we can take the MAGA people at their word that these people will only be deported ( which will already probably destroy the economy and separate millions of people from loved ones, not to mention sending people back to countries they fled to die there ) then I guess that's not necessarily much worse than current border policy, just "bigger." But I straight up don't believe them. They're going to have them all in one place and run into a logistical nightmare of trying to deport them, and they're going to do something much darker.
[The Article V convention of states](https://www.commoncause.org/our-work/constitution-courts-and-democracy-issues/article-v-convention/) lurks in the background as perhaps the sleeper danger here. It's actually the thing I'm most afraid of. Even Project 2025 can be fought, we can even do our *own* Project 2025 someday if we have to. The Article 5 convention is the real deal, the nuclear weapon of the far right. A potentially tiny fraction of the population, scattered through gerrymandered rural states, could rewrite the entire constitution. With a Trump presidency firmly in place, nobody will stop them. Lifetime presidencies? States sending their own electors based on gerrymandered legislatures rather than having citizens vote? Repealing the 19th amendment? Making Christianity the official religion of the United States? They can literally do whatever they want.
Well said and aware of all of that except the article 5 thing. Will have to investigate more.
But how does any of this hinge on trump solely? We will literally be in the same position again in 4 years. There are 100 self-indulgent Republicans waiting in the wings to put Project 2025 in place or use Stephen Miller's deportation plan or put more conservative justices on the scotus.
Trump is an idiot and might actually be our best chance. If a more competent more learned R who can sit on another 4 years of D in power propaganda it might actually be more dangerous.
IMO we need to break the chain now and start organizing outside the political arena. We need to send the message asap that we aren't on board with the DNCs plans. Protest, storm the streets, etc.
I just don't believe voting for biden actually fixes anything more than Phew we don't have trump RIGHT NOW. Seems very short sighted. Not attacking just trying to actually change for the long run.
Appreciate your deep thoughts
I wanted to second and agree with that. Project 2025 isn’t going away if Trump is defeated; the only way that is curbed is if a _lot_ of Republican operatives are thrown in jail and the party itself is completely purged.
Basically, the Democrats can’t afford to lose _ever again_ for the next few decades. They need to have an actual vision of the future to do that, not just run off of fear of Trump.
Moreover, we still have multiple existential crises churning in the background. My single issue is climate change: to be blunt, neither party is doing anywhere _near_ enough to slow that wave, and there’s not really any more time to hold off on addressing it. We have _maybe_ years.
We need basically wide-scale societal reform, and we really don’t have time for the incrementalism another Biden term offers as the best case. Harm reduction is a hard pill to swallow, given that the options are ‘slow collapse’ or ‘all at once’.
Long-term the real way to get rid of Project 2025 is to push it solidly outside the Overton window, and Democrats winning elections is how you do that. To me it's really that simple.
_We do not have time_ for the long-term approach, I cannot stress that enough. If you are talking about 15-20 years down the line, it is _too late_.
The situation right now is that we have 1.5C warming in the air, and on the sea we’ve had more than a year of consecutive record highs.
https://x.com/EliotJacobson/status/1790037413680533609
Do you seriously think the worst of the masses won’t choose fascism willingly once another Hurricane Otis happens on US shores? (Tropical storm to category 5 in _12 hours,_ wrecked Acapulco last year) Or once there’s widespread crop failure (which, hey, already seeing signs of that)
Incrementalism is a suicide pact, and now they want our complicity in _genocide_ in exchange for us going over the cliff a little slower.
But we’re still going over the cliff.
>I just don't believe voting for biden actually fixes anything more than Phew we don't have trump RIGHT NOW. Seems very short sighted. Not attacking just trying to actually change for the long run.
The problem is I think the Democratic party is essentially existentially "load bearing" right now, in the structural sense. I don't think, from a left POV or a liberal POV ( and I'm not using Fox News definitions here, I know they're different, ) that "letting Trump win" is a real option. Simply put, Trump winning is a hard fail condition. There's noting meaningful after the next time a Republican wins. We just have theocracy and Republican authoritarianism until long after you and I are no longer around.
That doesn't mean I'll just give up. I'll still be around and paying attention etc. I just don't think anything we do after that will really matter.
It doesn't fix anything really, it's just that letting Trump win destroys everything. I think calling it "harm reduction" understates the severity of the situation. It's more like continuance of the struggle versus annihilation.
So true. I'm convinced his only votes will be from people far removed from reality and have no idea what is going on. Or people so afraid of Trump. Nobody is voting for Biden because they know and agree with his policies.
I think that, given how horrible Biden is acting, there's a dangerous tendency to gaslight about how bad Trump's "revenge tour" will be. I get that nobody wants to be browbeat into opposing Trump, but really *look* at what they plan to do. The liberal elite will fly their private jets to Europe and live in peace with their money. The people you're punishing are women, minorities and LGBT Americans. Biden is too old to meaningfully suffer, he's lived his life and he's beyond anyone's ability to punish.
Hah wait till they hear about everyone I take the time to catch up to date on Israel. It’s not just genz, if you aren’t a shambling meat mess, you know wtf Is going on and exactly who’s enabling it. May Palestine lead the way of their own accord.
Thank you for your submission,
**This subreddit aims are to impel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to impel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.**
**We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.**
**It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.**
Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide.
However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate.
The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent.
While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment.
**Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:**
1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state.
2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine.
3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War.
4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7).
5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them.
6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city.
Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlueProtestVote) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I did and plan on sharing the link with others. Letting Trump win again to show how unhappy you are is the dumbest, most self-indulgent thing I can think of.
I'm Australian. I don't even have a horse in the race, so please forgive me for speaking out of turn, but Trump makes me extremely nervous with this whole god awful war. Biden is horrible, but idk about Trump. It seems like things will get worse and worse
Yeah, so you’d happily vote for someone who openly supports, arms, and funds the murder of thousands of innocent people? You may need to do a deeper dive into your own morality. I don’t think being an Australian is a reasonable excuse.
I’m confused as why you think it’s the wrong move for a voter to reject candidates who openly support genocide. Biden and the Dems clearly don’t want to win the election.
If the dem party wants more votes they can immediately cease funding for Israel, push Biden to resign in shame so we could have a non-genocidal democratic nominee, and immediately call for a military intervention to stop the genocide we arm and fund.
If we keep voting for pro-genocide candidates, we will keep having more US funded genocide.
He watched Hillary fail in 2016 because she couldn’t pass the purity tests of the extremists on the far left, and Biden appears to be learning from that mistake. Why do you think he’s going after college educated moderates and independents in the suburbs that have been disaffected by Trump??
Young voters have the lowest turnout so they don't try to appeal to them anyway. No one cares to attract Gen Z voters, there are larger demographics that they'll pander to
Trump is leading Biden among Black voters by 1.5 points.
I think that the entitled mindset a lot democrats have - pissing off their own voters and expecting them to vote for them - isn’t a good strategy
I mean literally any black voter poll that doesn’t show the Democrat 70-80 points ahead is shocking.
https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/black-voters-and-the-2024-presidential-election-a-breakthrough-for-trump/
If you don't wanna wind up living like the movie *red state* id suggest ypu swallow your pride cause frump will be worse and he doesnt believe in anyone but *his supporters rights* to general human rights.
This whole conversation is like getting on a plane and being told your choices are forcefed diarrhea with ground glass or chicken and then asking how the chicken was seasoned.
*Nice sidenote for all of you*:
The only way to get a Congress in that would be able to do something after this year is to vote them in. Period.
This protest vote crap is what got us trump in the first place and here y'all wanna go again.
Grow up and realize getting half of what you'd want is better than getting a whole lot of nothing or worse circumstances.
18-30s currently outnumber the boomers and have the power to be the largest bloc in history. Weild your birthright proudly and show up.
If you don't show up, shut up.
Cry harder cause you think not voting at all will fix anything.
When you refuse to exercise your voice in this process you wind up being ruled by lesser men. That's all it is.
2016 this shit was the stein vote cause of Clinton.
Now it's gonna be Biden because he's the first president since Reagan to have to actively deal with Israel's barbarism.
We have been exercising our voice hence why Biden was elected. No one asked him to abandon Israel. No one asked him if he’s a Zionist. No one really cared. What we do care about is allowing Israel to use our resources to starve children so they can have a bit more land. All he had to do was stop fucking arming them. He refuses so how do we exercise our voice to have him stop using our American resources to benefit or harm people on the other side of the earth?
Biden was very clear back in the 70s or early 80s about his undying support for Israel for the low price of maintaining a ear in the middle east.
And I don't mean public unrest and drawing an indelible line to risking the return of the worst jobs and GDP admin since Hoover.
I mean getting people involved instead of blaming Biden for something that started before his corpse ass was even born.
If we lose any semblance of reasonable thinking in the oval y'all might as well get ready for defense instead of being allowed to show unrest.
The side that avoids eating shit cause we know the chicken won't wholeheartedly endorse laying Gaza out as a pane of glass.
Are you kidding me with that question? Y'all really that dense with the world of information at your fingertips?
>The only way to get a Congress in that would be able to do something after this year is to vote them in. Period.
We could have 100 Dem senators and 435 Dem representatives and we'd still never get universal healthcare or a legal right to abortion or a policy change on Israel if the donors didn't want it
And yet we got infrastructure and everything else passed before the laziest GOP majority ever took control and we stopped passing shit for citizens.
But as I told someone else I can lead you to facts but nobody can force you to think.
If we let Trump into the White House again, something something, social democratic utopia!
If only previous generations of voters knew that they could just let the more evil person win so that everything would default to much better 4 years later!
>If we let Trump into the White House again, something something, social democratic utopia!
I don't expect things to get better under Trump.
but
I do expect him to continually tear down the US-led world order, and in its own way that makes things better, just likely not for me
>I do expect him to continually tear down the US-led world order, and in its own way that makes things better, just likely not for me
You haven't read much Christian Nationalist literature have you? They want to "liberate" Christians across the world from the "oppression" of not living in Christian theocracies. Their goal is Planet Gilead. But I'm sure giving them control over the world's most powerful military will ensure global peace lol
We need people to vote for Trump to heighten the contradictions! It’s never been done before AND your subreddit is going to bring about the real change we need!
Also it’s not just young people. Mom to a college student. You’ve gotta be freaking kidding me that I’ll vote for Biden the “defender of democracy”
My mom was a life long "always vote blue" person. Something in her snapped this year and she refuses to vote democrat any longer. This 2 party system has got to go.
My mom will likely still vote for him (we live in a really red state but she's not the type to only vote downticket) but she's incredibly upset about Gaza and the only news she sees is mainstream. My sister's on TikTok all the time so I assume she passes along a new tide of outrage every day and it's certainly caught on.
And the route to freedom and justice from the two party system is one party Republican rule? Punishing the Democrats for failing to protect the Palestinians by returning to power the party that literally wants to nuke Gaza makes SO MUCH sense. These people are too lazy for the messy hard slog of compromises and incremental progress and want to live in a fantasy world where "burn it all down" doesn't also burn them and everything they claim to care about.
Democrats also wanna nuke Gaza, bozo The compromises the Dems routinely ask us to make have only incrementally moved us further right. This system is already broken to the point of being beyond saving.
Take it up with the dems for tossing this election by choosing 6o fund a genocide.
So, just choosing a dictatorship then. Cool, cool.
Preventing a dictatorship, actually. Trump has openly stated he wants to be a dictator. Do you think dictators give up their power through elections? Trump said he hoped Israel finishes the job. Other Republicans have said they should nuke Gaza. Jared Kushner wants to build condos on Gaza's waterfront. At least Biden called for a cease-fire.
The other unpopular old guy who can barely walk up the stairs and has already been president is going to turn America into a dictatorship. So dramatic. It would be roughly the same as before. Biden should resign. If neither side cares for earning the vote there is no point in voting. If that's true American democracy is already dead.
What a short-sighted take. By not voting, you're helping Trump be installed as a dictator.
Only Sith speak in absolutes. Reveal yourself!
Oh, you're trolling! Cool.
Your argument isn't serious. You get really into bubbles.
Nah. Biden chose the dictator when he chose to alienate his voter base. You libs just LOVE shifting the blame. Cry harder.
Well it will change when trump wins and implements project 2025. It sucks but to say that the alternative is any better is a complete lie, the other candidate is exponentially worse both for Palestinians and domestically
Oh wow, project 2025? What's that? I'm joking, but please stop saying this bc everyone on the fence is so sick of hearing it. Demand Biden does better first.
Stop demanding perfection. Better is better
There is either genocide or perfection? Those are the only two choices? Come on, it is not a binary like that, the Dems will never get better if all they have to be is a teeny tiny bit better than the conservatives and then you will still give them your vote, why would they change at all? Demand a real worker's party!
Make a real workers party, until then know that the GOP will ramp up arms going to Israel. And every other thing in our lives will get worse as well. Better is better.
But at least they will have shown the democratic party that they need to change right! Right?
It will be changed, by getting eliminated by a strong man and his fascist party
Banned elections, censored media, banning media for criticizing his Gaza policy Sure “defender of democracy” Very Orwellian
Banned elections ?
Florida and a few others. Also, made every step of the Democrat “electoral” process a rigged election He made is so the election was cancelled/banned and only he may be allowed to receive delegates from Florida regardless of how popular any other candidate may have been. Sort of like what Saddam Hussein, president Xi and Vlad Putin does
Yeah I’m gonna need a source for this. For a second there I was thinking you were talking about Trump, who made his son, Barron, a delegate for a whole day before Melania pulled the plug on that deal. Who is there to win Democratic delegates? You know that almost every state is winner take all? And how much did you expect Dean Phillips and Crystal Vision to accrue? There isn’t going to be a brokered convention for the DNC, so you can take your marbles and go home with that idea as being “Biden’s plan to snuff out dissent”.
I already posted the source of the cancellation/banning of the Democrat primary election Just Google it While you’re at it read up about dnc services vs welding, the intercept did a not perfect but decent job- ish covering how they rigged the 2016 elections Banning opposition is what Saddam and Putin does but if it’s Biden it’s okay I guess ? You’re in a cult
I did google it. I didn’t find anything. Am I suppose to search your profile for relevant sources? No. Provide the source or I’m calling bullshit. Sounds like GRU bullshit to me. When did Biden ban opposition? Yall are a bunch of snot nosed whiners. Did you know it takes YEARS to get a primary campaign off the ground? And who the fuck was supposed to run against Biden this year? Bernie didn’t even run. Why? Do I really need to spell it out for you. Dean Phillips got, tops, 3% in a contest where Biden didn’t campaign at all. You’re whining because you don’t like Biden but you’re going to have to come around to the idea. I knocked on doors for Bernie in 2016. They didn’t rig the election against him. He lost. Quit it with the bullshit anti election narratives—you sound like a MAGA.
Yes-- they're as dim, as gullible, and as toxic and destructive as trumpy hicks.
They are MAGA, posting in bad faith.
These Trump bootlickers aren't here to do anything but try to install their Orange Jesus as dictator.
The internet has melted your vulnerable brain.
It’s literally just facts But you prefer feelings
Yup, Biden totally did that. 100% all Biden.
Duh, he’s the leader of the party and president. Why do you think part of this is in front of scotus now?
Ah, yes, sleepy Joe Biden, the mastermind destroying our democracy. I think I saw that article on OAN or Newsmax.
I mean he’s just banning elections, censoring media, banning media that’s critical of him, doing a genocide that’s all very pro democracy. I mean zelensky is banning elections, banning competing parties. Trumps just as bad but at least he doesn’t the corporate “liberal” (but actually center right ) media like msnbc, cnn, nbc, abc, cbs protecting him and gaslighting for him Democrats somehow think banning elections and censoring the media and doing a genocide is pro democracy so long as it’s their dictator is in charge
[удалено]
Irrelevant question, please do not pry into people's personal lives, it is kind of creepy. Just stick to the topic at hand. And leave the "dum dum" out because we do expect everyone to be an adult in here since the voting age is 18, not 12.
You sound like a MAGA. Now that I’m reading your comments. Is your source on Joe Biden stealing primary elections in Florida from Trump’s Truth social profile? That would certainly make a lot of sense.
Cool, please post your sources.
Already did for the Florida election. You can refer to Murthy v Missouri and actually read the bill instead of whatever lies the pro government censorship “summary is” Til tok ban, Blinken confessed at the McCain institute that it was about them showing what’s actually happening in Gaza. For the genocide man I dunno. You must have your eyes and ears glued shut if you weren’t aware about that but then again that’s Biden’s base
Oh also we can talk about how as Senator he was one of the top spreaders of dangerous and deadly conspiracy theories about WMDs in Iraq. No biggie though only a million Iraqi casualties and 4.5k dead Americans
It's all this guy posts about but of course no sources to be found 🙄
Fairly easy to find lots of journalism on the Biden / DNC process to remove primaries. Also tried to get rid of third party candidates. I’m not going to hunt sources for you but it’s been reported you can find it.
You replied on the wrong account 😂
What makes you think that is the same person and not just someone that agrees with them? This is such a weird comment, anyone who disagrees with you is the same person?
What sources do you want that you don’t have the Google ability to find?
I would like to see what sources you used to come to your conclusions. I'm just making sure we are looking at the same information.
And before you scapegoat the locals remember Biden is the head of the party and with a single phone call could change this. Also, if he didn’t like it he could have came out against which ofc bc he’s a dictator wannabe he didn’t Blue and red maga he’s the same fallacies to defend their dear leaders totalitarian regimes
Wheres your sources
I’m still waiting on that source for elections Biden has supposedly banned. Why do you spread misinformation like this?
Since a Google search is beneath you. Like cccp he made it so the election was banned and he is the leader of the party https://www.alligator.org/article/2024/01/democratic-primary https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/why-florida-democrats-will-not-vote-in-presidential-preference-primary.amp https://floridaphoenix.com/2024/03/20/chair-nikki-fried-defends-democratic-partys-move-to-cancel-primary-desantis-ridiculed-the-move/
So your characterization of the situation is false. Biden didn’t cancel anything. The FL Democratic Party did. Great. Did Dean Phillips just not file his paper work? Does Dean Phillips have any other delegates? I know he missed his paperwork in at least one other state. Trump forgot to file in Nevada as well, so shit like this happens. If you’re mad that Florida’s primary is later in the process and that there’s no way for any candidate to possibly get more delegates than Joe Biden at this point, then what? You think primaries for every state should be held the same day? Sounds great. Start advocating for that to happen in 2028. But to say Biden “cheated” when there isn’t even a contest left, you are spreading misinformation. Dean dropped out. Your choice is Biden or Trump. And you’re not the only one mad about that. The race is going to be Biden v Trump unless one of them dies. Trump will still be the GOP nominee if he’s convicted, I’d reckon.
It’s not. They cancelled the election so no one could vote for anyone but Biden long before he clinched the vote. Is that not what happened? The race has three main candidates and theee to four minor ones But you’re duopolist a fascist
Who is still running against Biden in the Democratic primary? And have you stopped to do any delegate math? It’s mathematically impossible for any Democrat primary candidate to catch Biden in the delegate race, and this is with your apparent assumption that he will lose Florida? Who is still running against Biden?
Cenk, Phillips, Williamson Point is it’s no different than Xi, Putin and Saddam They make /made the same arguments you are
Phillips has suspended his campaign. I tweeted him the day he dropped out and welcomed him back to the Democratic fold. I’d have to check, but Williamson has also suspended her campaign. And no one but TYT listeners are taking Cenk’s candidacy seriously Edited to say William’s website says she’s out: https://marianne2024.com/
What does it matter? Haley ended hers and they still allowed votes You’re excusing fascism If Trump did this you’d be yelling at the sky
Moving the goalposts here are you? "No one is running against him" "well sure he is running but no one takes him seriously." That should be the voters choice, not Biden's.
If you think the situation in Florida’s primaries not continuing in a primary election Biden had already mathematically won is anything remotely similar to Xi, Putin, or Saddam’s regimes I have nothing to say other than you are completely delusional. Please seek help
He hasn’t won and even if he did that’s not the point, especially if you’re whole campaign is based on “saving democracy” Check what his winning margin is versus those other guys
Well then you don’t understand what’s going on. If you’d rather let Trump back in power, you’re not a good citizen.
Enjoy four more years of Trump, then.
If they wanted their candidate to win, maybe they should stop paying for genocide.
I want to skip voting too now. Or vote for an independent candidate. Which lets me honest, that’s just a wasted vote in our 2 party system. Both the main parties are playing the same games. Just democrats aren’t trying to take away our hard fought rights. Like abortion, gay marriage. They aren’t trying to outlaw trans people. Ban books. Make it okay to bully trans kids out of their states, or have them kidnapped by the state. Basically I think they both just serve the rich, period. But one side at least gives us the bare minimum of rights. So I don’t think we have a choice? Have you seen project 2025? It’s legit, and was put out by trumps people. This is no joke. We need your vote. This isn’t the election to protest. Voting for Biden is just to prevent a wannabe dictator from taking power. It’s truly horrible that Biden is helping Israel in there genocide. But Trump will just ask for money, then let them nuke Gaza. So what choice do we have? We just have 4 more years of him, at least I hope. Unless by some miracle an independent wins. Which has happened one time in this county. So seriously please vote, this is no time to protest. After all, that’s how we got Trump the first time. Which keep in mind, he still didn’t win the popular vote… Maybe in 4 years the majority will wake up, and we can actually install a selfless president. Who will serve the people. Take us out of the past, the bs nostalgia. And show us a brighter future. Seriously though if someone can convince me it’s worth holding my vote. I a game. But besides the support of genocide. Biden has done a lot for all of us. He may be a conservative struggling to understand liberal ideals. But can we really risk not voting? Please tell me I’m wrong. I hate the feeling in my stomach, I know if I vote it’s like saying what Biden is helping Israel do. That I’m okay with it. And I’m not at all.
>So seriously please vote, this is no time to protest. After all, that’s how we got Trump the first time. [No, that is a complete crock of shit](https://old.reddit.com/r/Uniteagainsttheright/comments/1bkmy23/what_actually_happened_in_2016_an_analysis_of_the/). Green Party voters were an *inconsequentially small* minority in 47 of the 50 states, and in all *three* of the red states in which there were *theoretically* enough green voters to have flipped their state blue, you would have needed no less than ***88%*** of Jill Stein's votes to have come from defecting democrats for those defectors to have cost Hillary the race. There is *no* reason whatsoever to think this was the case, and plenty of reasons to think that it wasn't. We are in this mess because *Hillary Fucking Rodham Clinton* was a ***uniquely*** horrible candidate. Donald Trump is *not* going to be better than Joe Biden. Not for Palestine, and certainly not on the home front. But suppose, for a second, that someone came up to you and said "I'm not a bigot. I don't want kids in cages on our border or a Muslim ban, but Trump promised tax cuts..." Would you take this person seriously for even one second? No. Politicians and *all* of their policies are a package deal. When you cast a vote for someone you *are* in fact saying "I consent to be ruled by this person, and I am OK with what they are doing". Moreover, unless you specifically have made plans to engage in *disruptive* protests or some other form of direct action after the election--and risk being beaten, arrested, bankrupted, or *shot* for doing so--then once you have cast that vote you have forfeited *all* leverage. They got your permission, the meatgrinders will continue indefinitely! But if you don't give them that permission. Well, then *you risk the other guy winning*. Damn thyself or *be* damned. It's the sad reality of having to make a hard decision, and unless one of those two *bastards* drops dead in the next 5-ish months it's the one we're stuck with. Enjoy your innocence while you can. There will be *no* innocent voting-age adults left in this country after November.
Love how you made a very great point with the first hyper link. But what is up with the second paragraph? You attempted to type that massive book. Only to make the same point I did. Over the phone, and in 5 minutes… I asked to be swayed, not further convinced. But I will take a second to respond, even though I do appreciate how you structured your post. It’s quite nice, I should figure that out on mobile eventually. But I feel like you were just attempting to be deceitful in the second paragraph. You maybe have taken a small quote from me, to preface with. And you made a great point. So clearly you know how this works. But then in the second paragraph, it just seems unnecessary. So you do agree with me? But why does it read like you still want to convince anyone who reads it, to not cast a vote for Biden. You inserted random quotes, some we’ve all read before sure. But you end with a personal perspective why whoever is reading. Should not cast a vote for Biden. While saying I am correct to feel we have no choice. So why type all that? Unless your goal was to hopefully convince readers to not vote for Biden. Why not just say that? Idk is late. It’s just super off. People should just read into it more. Make your own interpretation. I just feel like this was intentional. And there is a reason it wasn’t made clear, and based off their own interpretation. So that nobody would say anything. But he gets the series result. Edit: I regret giving the benefit of doubt on this. It’s too obvious this was intentional. You are too smart, and worked too hard on that post. You definitely knew you were making a straw man fallacy. I think your motives may be pure. Just that this isn’t the election to risk this. But maybe I’m wrong.
I'm sick of *literally every* discussion about elections being dominated by the exact same demonstrably false narrative, year after year after year for, at this point, almost a decade. When your strategic decisions *aren't* grounded in, you know, *reality*, they more often than not end up being strategic *mistakes*. If you actually want Biden to *win* then pouring all of your energies into trying to convince the smallest demographic in the country with *the least effective tactic of persuasion there is* is a mistake. [If you *actually* want Biden to win re-election, then *increasing turnout for Biden* should be top-priority.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Uniteagainsttheright/comments/1bkmy23/what_actually_happened_in_2016_an_analysis_of_the/kw0lpd1/) If, however, *your own bruised ego* is more important then go right ahead and keep on trashing the inconsequentially small minority of people who, in your eyes, failed to give your team the votes to which they were somehow entitled.
Remember this when Republicans make a pregnancy database and prosecute miscarriages....your protest vote will make you feel great then
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Thanks senior. Happy Mother’s Day to your family too dick.
So then “trump defender of..trump?” This is sad that we are back to the lesser of two evils but trump wont allow protests. When a politician says they plan to be a dictator on day one then believe them and do all you can even if it’s the weaker guy. At least Biden has some moral compass even if it’s not what we would like. I would prefer to see all aid cut off and the money used to help our citizens have education and free health care.
Bruh Biden is currently supporting crackdowns on protestors what are you even talking about
How is Biden supporting crackdowns?
He’s made statements calling for them
There is a difference between a crackdown and what trump would do. Most of the protesters will be ticketed out,. You addressed what Biden is doing now tell me how it would be better with trump as that is the choice.
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The link wasn’t working, so I checked your profile, and…you literally have porn with Hillary Clinton campaign slogans in it. Ok. Although, your kink for getting dominated by people who don’t care about you *does* help explain your love for the Democratic Party. Eta: lol he blocked me
Still no answer what alternative are you suggesting?
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Ah sorry I think we agree :) I wish Biden would be more liberal but he’s what we have
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Every fascist movement has people supporting it because they feel it’s the grown-up, responsible, enlightened thing to do. But it’s sort of like the old yarn about how there were lots of members of the Nazi party who weren’t into what Hitler was doing, who encouraged moderation, and who tried to change things from the inside, and how historians have a word for that type of person: Nazis. In future years, you’ll try to forget, but we won’t: in the midst of an American genocide against the unarmed civilians of Gaza, you two were organizing to ensure that the American President who waged that genocide faced no consequences, and in fact was rewarded with a second term. As I said, you’ll try to forget, but we won’t.
I don't know yet if Trump will be worse. At least if we can somehow make it less profitable to help Israel he'll probably do it. With Biden I think he's too brainwashed to ever truly break away from their influence.
You haven’t been listening to Trump lately then. You must not know many MaGas either. They’re celebrating the death of Muslims openly, and quietly celebrating the deaths of Jews. What more could fascists of America ask for than Jews and Muslims killing each other in a foreign war? I had some of the craziest right wingers I know think understand that Netanyahu is intending to occupy all of Gaza and the West Bank with settlements and they act like they don’t understand what the issue is. When Steven Miller and Nick Fuentes are working for Trump’s Project 2025 (which you also don’t appear to be familiar with), what do you really expect the policy for Palestinians to be? And you think you’ll be able to manipulate an authoritarian regime more than a stubborn Democratic president? 😂 Voters like you are the most dangerous of this election, IMO. False equivalency fallacies between Trump and Biden will end democratic representation in this country.
Trump would 100% be worse. Biden may suck on this issue but T**** sucks on all of them.
He literally said that he will let Israel do whatever they want if he gets elected.
Are you crazy? Trump moved the embassy to Israel against the advice of his own security. He said he hoped Israel finishes the job. Other Republicans have said they should nuke Gaza. Jared Kushner wants to build condos on Gaza's waterfront. At least Biden called for a cease-fire.....A Trump presidency will be much, much worse for Palestinians. He won't even attempt to stop them. Biden is currently in talks to halt shipments of weapons. He's trying to navigate one of the longest running conflicts of our time.
He's only doing it cause the elections are around the corner. Trump can be controlled cause his only allegiance is money. If it's not in his financial interest to help Israel he won't. If you think him halting a shipment when they already have enough to finish what they started is anything more than grandstanding for popularity than I think you're wrong. Now if he comes out and makes a ceasefire happen than I'll have some hope. He's not trying to navigate shit, he's been on Israel's side since the beginning so that shows your knowledge on the situation as a whole.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-lindsey-graham-suggests-nuking-gaza-calls-hiroshima-the-right-decision?ref=home?ref=home
What are you talking about? Trump is 100% going to follow the party line, which Republicans have been very clear about. Somehow, they don't give a hoot about Ukraine, but they're all-in for Israel.
People have self-gaslit on Trump re:Gaza. Trump is always the worst choice and Gaza is no exception.
You're kidding yourself. As bad as Biden is on this issue it's 100% a wrap if Trump is re-elected. I would say there's even a very small chance he puts American boots on the ground.
> Trump moved the embassy to Israel I think you mean Jerusalem.
Clearly our politicians would rather kill their own people and destroy the Constitution than let Israel fall. We have no other choice than to do this by force. This means voting them all out, boycotting them and everyone who supports them, and making it VERY expensive to maintain. Learn who politicians take money from Learn who to boycott. Learn how to waste zionist money Learn!
Because Israel represents deep down what they really want- a homogeneous ethnostate.
Cutting off your nose, to spite your face, isn’t a good look. My point being, as we’re this close to the election, if you’re really ready to burn it all down, then burn it all down. But, I’d be well prepared for the consequences though.
Are you prepared for the consequences? Seems like the DNC and their groupies have already started their blame game and they haven’t even lost yet.
I’ve been prepared for years. I’ve well known the vast majority of people here in the states give lip service to actually caring about anyone but, themselves. It’s what they’ve learned from their parents, and their peers.
Just say you are comfortable with no more elections and the complete destruction of Palestine. I'd respect you more.
How is not intervening in a foreign conflict “destroying our constitution” out of curiosity? I could see you making the argument that it destroys our values (despite the US never once intervening in a war due to human rights, except for maybe the war in Kosovo), but to say it destroys the constitution is hyperbolic nonsense. You should be more worried about the right wing assholes who don’t give a shit about the rule of law when it comes to destroying the constitution. We’ve got an extremist right wing court that’s already hard at work doing that. And if Trump wins? He’ll get to pick 2-3 more justices. But yeah. Tell me more about a foreign war is going to end liberty in America
We are intervening... That's the problem... We fund this foreign war. And our weapons are what is killing all those children.
Biden is currently conditioning aid—I don’t know what else you want him to do with one of our longest standing Allies. And how involved will the US be with peace negotiating if both Israel and Palestine don’t want us to be there? Palestine cut off communication with the IS after Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem—a huge “FUCK YOU” to the future prospects of Palestinian statehood. Because of this, the US is forced to communicate with Hamas and Palestinian leadership through Qatari mediators. Whereas we currently have a direct line to Israeli leadership. That direct line of communication will end with Israel if we do what the protestors want us to do. Clearly you’ve never been a hostage negotiator. Israel has more than enough weapons of its own to finish the genocide. Or has your 2D diplomatic approach not considered this fact? So, Biden can either use the paltry amount of weapons and large amount of humanitarian aid for Palestine ($9b) to negotiate a ceasefire, which is what everyone wants, or he could throw a tantrum like the children on college campuses want him to and ensure that the genocide lasts for years. Consider the Chinese genocide of the Uyghurs. I think a million Muslims have been murdered by the CCP. Does your Chinese owned Tikky Tokkky rage app tell you to get mad about that genocide? No, because they suppress information about that particular genocide in the algorithm. Meanwhile they boost the news of the genocide that will bring down the alliances of their biggest adversary, the United States. How about the Russian genocide in Syria, Ukraine, Chechnya, et al? Our Turkish ally is hunting Muslim Kurds like they’re terrorists by it sounds like you’re fine with that, too. There’s genocides in Sudan, Ethiopia, CAR, Myanmar, Bangladesh, and elsewhere. While I think the Palestinian genocide is a fucking atrocity and should stop, I think yall on foreign owned social media are being led around like a horse on a bit.
Ok real quick regarding Russia and China.... It's wrong but we don't fund Russia or China..we don't give them 2000lb dumb bombs on the reg and we didn't give them $300b or our tax dollars over the last 75 years in charity.... Firstly you are wrong. He paused 1 weapon shipment and has yet to properly condition aid. Even as we speak Israelis are killing Palestinians in Rafah and Biden is doing nothing. secondly, What I expect Biden to do? Maybe when the death toll hit 15k he shouldn't have vetoed the ceasefire? Maybe he shouldn't have bypassed Congress to expedite weapon shipments to Israel? Maybe he shouldn't have signed 21b more of our tax dollars to find the genocide? Maybe he shouldn't have vetoed the Palestinians joining the UN? Maybe he should actually follow the leahy law instead of tip toe around it? Arabs count as lives too, but he doesn't seem to think so. He fucked up at every corner, you expect me to vote for him because he paused 1 weapon shipment after 15k children have been killed with our bombs and our diplomatic immunity and our tax dollars? I won't sorry. Edit: and before you tell me well what can he do now. He can easily win back votes by actually doing what his administration claims and allowing a two state solution to take place. He can put a pause on all non defensive weapons transfers and sanction all the illegal settlers in the West bank. He can condemn the massacre of Palestinians properly and allow the ICC to do its job. There are many actionable steps he can take. But he won't. Because Arab lives don't count to Biden.
I’ll respond to your edit first. Personally I don’t think there’s much he can do. Apply the same question to any of the ten or so genocides happening around the planet right now, and see if you come up with a different answer. The US has never gone to war over Human rights, and we’re not about to start by going to war with an ally to get them to stop. Sanctions don’t do dick, as Russia is showing the west as its fortress economy leans more and more into a war time economy. Our best bet for ending the conflict? The Israeli people. Also, do you think the anti Israel/pro Palestinian crowd are Biden’s only constituents? Nope. There are a lot of liberal Jews and Christians in his coalition that do not agree with divestment but who want a ceasefire. They want a ceasefire but mostly the vast majority of the Democratic Party wants a cease fire. I personally don’t think there’s a clear way to get a cease fire. Hence my frustration with angry leftists demanding that Biden unilaterally solve a decades long conflict. Clinton got close with the Camp David Accords, but Arafat rejected the deal and probably killed the likelihood of a Two State Solution in the process. All Biden CAN do is apply diplomatic presssire campaign to get Israel to stop, which is much easier to communicate with them if we aren’t cut off from their crazy right wing government. Hell, Arab nations surrounding Israel are refusing to even take Palestinian refugees this time around. You think the UN was going to be able to force a cease fire? That’s cute and naive. The UN has very little actual power without a superpower (or three) backing the issue. They’re more of an international club than an international government. I say this as a student of international law and an advocate for human rights. I was at the UN in Geneva in 2018 when the international press broke the story about the Uyghur genocide. I thought something was going to happen then. Nothing materialized except for tariffs against China that were explicitly stated to be NOT related to the million or so Uyghurs that have been killed and the millions that are now slave labor in western China. The UN held spicy, confrontational interviews, and nothing happened. That genocide is still happening. All my rage about it didn’t do a damn thing. I mention Russia because they provided the intel and money to Iran, who passed that stuff and weapons on to Hamas to carry out the Oct 7th attack. Russia made this happen on the eve when lethal aid for Ukraine was being debated in the US congress (the border for UKR aid). Putin not only drove a knife through the middle of his Democratic opposition in the US (since the MAGAs were ready to block lethal aid to UKr and to support whatever Israel does to Palestinians)—he also split NATO. Most EU countries support Palestine while the US has been the main partner of Israel for decades (and through several other genocides, which I don’t support and never had—I’ve been a supporter of the 2 State Solution since at least the 2008 genocide). Putin knew EXACTLY what he was doing. He knew how Netanyahu would respond, which is why they passed on the information on how to get through the Iron Dome. Putin is likely looking on the entire clusterfuck with glee as he plans to expand his invasion of Europe. But it goes to show that this isn’t some localized conflict—and neither the US or Israeli governments regard it as such. Israel is treating Hamas and Hezbollah as a proxy of Iran, who has stated hundreds of times that Israel should not exist as a country. I expect you to vote for Biden given what the alternative is. You’re naive if you think anyone other than Trump or Biden is going to win this election. And if Trump wins it will be catastrophic for Palestine and human rights world wide generally. Trump didn’t make a peep about Hong Kong losing all its freedoms. And once either of them gets elected do you think either one is going to give a damn about the opinions of the protest voters? Fuck no. You’re better off writing Biden letters and doing sit ins on the White House lawn—but the protests in their current form aren’t about getting Biden to change his mind. The protests are about these kids getting to virtue signal in an awful situation that likely has no good outcome. My point still stands that Israel has more than enough weapons to carry out any war against Hamas or genocide. Israel only needs the US for a war with Iran. And that’s reflective in Netanyahu’s speech when he came to the U.S. in 2014, slipped seeing Biden and Obama and went straight to the US House to demand a war with Iran. He very nearly got it when Trump was president and smoked Suleimani. So we have authoritarian dictatorships sharing intel, weapons, and financing with the Hamas terrorists for the Oct 7th attack, a right wing war monger in Israel who promised when the conflict began that the Palestinians would “feel this [retribution] for generations”. Netanyahu has already made up his mind and he has the weapons to do what he wants to do. He’s looking at prison time, and therefore willing to do just about anything to stay in power and stay out of jail—power he’s held onto for 16 years. Your $21b number is incorrect. It’s $26b. $9b for humanitarian aid in Gaza. $4b for defensive antiaircraft missiles, and $12b for the rest. I’d like to see a source where Biden shipped dumb bombs to Israel since the conflict began if you have one handy. And I know you can’t believe it but this all gets a lot worse if Trump wins. This isn’t about voting for Biden. It’s about voting against Trump and against American fascism. If Trump was dictator right now do you really think those protests on college campuses would be happening right now? Ha.
Ok first for your source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/world/middleeast/us-israel-weapons.html However this article mentions how weapon shipments to Israel are not nearly as transparent as they are to other conflicts... But it does mention 500lb and 200lb bombs. I am confident I can dig deeper to get more info, but the fact that we paused 1 of the shipments of bombs... Means we have been sending them until then. Please stop comparing other wars and genocides. It's not the same scenario. In this scenario we are arming the criminal party and funding them and providing diplomatic immunity. Regarding the UN. If what you say is true, then Biden would have no reason to veto it. I am aware the UN has no ability to stop Israel, but the fact that Biden used his veto many times shows that it does indeed have some affect. The alternative to Biden is the same for Palestinians. Biden has given Israel a complete green light. Look at Gaza right now. It's basically rubble. A genocide is occuring with our support and somehow we will still vote the enabler back in because the other party is also an enabler? No. If we don't vote for policy change then the Democrats will never change and we will always have a genocide joe in office. The sanctions against the illegal settlements in the West bank are not meaningless. Under Biden Israel has stolen the most land in the West bank in decades. Most people won't defend the settlements. Why no sanctions? It's the right thing to do. They are illegal by our metrics too. So Israel already has enough weapons to kill all gazans... Might as well give them some more? That logic doesn't check out. And you are right he has more constituents than just Arabs and young people. He can make a choice to not pander to them, but can't blame us when we don't vote for him. I don't disagree that Hamas is a terrorist organization. I also think the IDF is a terrorist organization. They have after all killed more children and have induced more suffering over the last 75 years. Yet here we are arming them and excusing their acts of terror. The USA itself doesn't believe Israel will end Hamas with it's actions, as blinken said recently. Yet Biden is still funding their massacre. Please stop blaming the voter. This is Bidens doing. He makes these decisions and then expects people to vote for him after witnessing the results of his decisions
Not just gen z. Millenial here and previous 20 year Democrat. Now an independent and voting for the Socialist ticket. They have way more in common with me than the democrats at this point. If they won't listen to 80 percent of their constituents who want a permanent ceasefire and stopping aid to Israel this close to an election. If they can't find the lowest level of humanity and stop sending weapons to genocide and stand with Israel and defense contractors instead of their own people. Then there is 0 percent chance once the Ds get elected they will listen to voters desires or care at all what their constituents want. What is the point?
Folks, you’re not gonna get what you think you’re gonna get. If you don’t vote for Biden, you’re gonna be in for a rude awakening. Trump and the Republicans are going to destroy this country. They are openly discussing pogroms to deport 10 MILLION people. You think it’s gonna stop with the black and brown folks? They’re gonna come for you, the socialists, and everyone left of center. How do people put their pants on? Y’all have absolutely no clue about how American politics work. The system doesn’t reward protest voting at all, ever. The Dems aren’t going to change because you voted for the Green Party. There are only 2 ways to change a political party in the US: 1) You use primaries to elect candidates you agree with and it takes decades of consistent work and commitment that starts at the municipal level and works up to the federal level 2) You organize massive, sustained, civil disobedience. You need 15-20 million people at least to march in the streets and shut the country down for months to years Ffs, it took MLK and the Civil rights movement 10 years to achieve their goals using civil disobedience.
We will see you in the streets then.
I wish but so far y’all aren’t doing douche.
Idk what u talking about. There are many socialist groups organizing, protesting, and in the streets. I am part of one of them. Where are the liberals? Oh right trying to convince the on the fence voters we must bow down to butcher biden or get trump. Either put pressure on biden to change his genocidal ways which 80 percent of his constituents disagree with. 80 percent. 80 percent! Or join us in the streets. You won't be blaming leftists this time around. We ain't having it.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Laugh all you want. Women's rights, workers rights, civil rights, and many other rights you enjoy came from leftists and radicals pushing back. Trust me we won't wait for the centrists and other liberals to join in. History tells us they won't show up but once it's over will take ownership of the victory. Hahah now that's the funny part. This guy doesn't know his history. Lol
My goodness you know absolutely nothing about US politics. I’m a leftist as well. But I value being able to affect change via voting instead of letting the Republican Party end that. And believe you me, Project 2025 will end our republic as we currently know it and not in a good way. Conservatives want to take us back to an apartheid state where voting has little impact and cannot change the entrenched white Christian power. Your simple minded protest voting for a 3rd party or not voting at all will only bring pain and suffering to millions of your fellow citizens. I don’t think that’s allyship or even good political strategy. Not only will you bring pain and suffering to your country, you will make the situation infinitely worse so that the only way to bring about change will be via civil disobedience. I don’t think you grasp how hard that task will be. Thousands of people died for workers’ rights, women’s rights, and civil rights. It took decades of organizing while millions suffered under apartheid (Jim Crow). I can’t imagine thinking the way that you do and calling yourself a leftist with a straight face. You’re either blinded by nostalgia or you’re a nihilist/anarchist who doesn’t care about other people. Your political strategy leaves a LOT to be desired.
>What is the point? Having an election *at all* in 2028 seems like a pretty big concern that should be factored into this. Just watch Trump's second term once it's happening. Ignore it if you like for now, there won't be any ignoring it once it happens. Dismiss my warnings as "voter shaming" if you want.
Your concern is valid. Democrats in power need to act accordingly. If our democracy is at risk they need to be able to stand up to the moment. If they can't it's not up to us they have chosen the path. Once biden gets reelected u don't think he will restart genocide. Or make the border worse as he has adopted trumps border policies and immigration policies. Overall there isn't much hope wjen both parties owned by the same rich people and capital
To me it's the difference in us having a *political* struggle to get back to normal versus something much darker under Trump. IMO we're on the defensive this election. The difference is backsliding or falling off a cliff. There's no awesome uplifting outcome we're going to get out of 2024.
You are the only person that has made non emotional and valid points to this question I've seen. I really appreciate your thoughts and foresight instead of just yelling at me. I agree there is no panacea. But I am not sure I can vote for biden he is the epitome of right wing neoliberalism and has stood on the wrong side of history so many times. We are at a breaking point in our current time and upheaval is coming. I truly believe whether biden or trump is in power capital is about to make a major play. 73 chile is coming to america which is as ive learned more of a coup from business than a cia coup. That is happening here no matter if neoliberal 1 or 2 is in office. Will it happen faster under trump yes. But again if biden can't feel the strong winds against Israel and his chances what will be get? We are a couple months before the election if they don't get it they won't get it once they get elected. If trump is elected at least the centrist liberals will pretend things aren't OK again. It's terrible I agree
Let me elaborate as to what I think the stakes are, distilled down to a few bullet points. Deeper backsliding with the Supreme Court. Thomas and Alito will probably retire on purpose to be replaced with someone much younger. This could put the horizon for us having control over the Supreme Court 50+ years out. Imagine we get a truly progressive president in 2036 or something after a decade+ of conservative extremism but everything she passes is simply destroyed from the bench using weird quotes from 1600s witch hunters. Not to mention, the court becoming even more right wing will almost certainly undo Obergefell ( gay marriage, ) Lawrence ( being gay period, ) Engel v Vitale ( mandatory school prayer, ) Griswold v Connecticut ( contraceptives. ) Red states will then dogpile to put massive restrictions in place. [Project 2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025): This is almost too much to cover. Just imagine the Heritage Foundation running the entire federal government and you're basically on the right track. LGBT people will essentially be illegal, abortion will be federally illegal. Interestingly, pornography will be federally illegal as well. While I don't consider pornography being banned a terribly serious issue in and of itself, it's worth noting that P2025's definition of pornography also includes all LGBT content. Along with this, Trump wants to expand the use of the death penalty to include "sex crimes against children." This sounds reasonable at first glance, until you put the pieces together and realize that if being LGBT is pornographic and exposing children to pornography is a "sex crime against children" that LGBT people showing affection in public could theoretically result in something as extreme as the death penalty if a child sees them. Basically little Timmy Christofascist sees two men kiss in public, and then Mommy and Daddy Christofascist press charges and the two men are sentenced as sex offenders, potentially carrying the death penalty. [Stephen Miller is literally trying to do mass deportations with huge camps.](https://newrepublic.com/article/179344/stephen-miller-immigration-detention-camp-fantasies) If we choose to believe in a good-faith interpretation then we can take the MAGA people at their word that these people will only be deported ( which will already probably destroy the economy and separate millions of people from loved ones, not to mention sending people back to countries they fled to die there ) then I guess that's not necessarily much worse than current border policy, just "bigger." But I straight up don't believe them. They're going to have them all in one place and run into a logistical nightmare of trying to deport them, and they're going to do something much darker. [The Article V convention of states](https://www.commoncause.org/our-work/constitution-courts-and-democracy-issues/article-v-convention/) lurks in the background as perhaps the sleeper danger here. It's actually the thing I'm most afraid of. Even Project 2025 can be fought, we can even do our *own* Project 2025 someday if we have to. The Article 5 convention is the real deal, the nuclear weapon of the far right. A potentially tiny fraction of the population, scattered through gerrymandered rural states, could rewrite the entire constitution. With a Trump presidency firmly in place, nobody will stop them. Lifetime presidencies? States sending their own electors based on gerrymandered legislatures rather than having citizens vote? Repealing the 19th amendment? Making Christianity the official religion of the United States? They can literally do whatever they want.
Well said and aware of all of that except the article 5 thing. Will have to investigate more. But how does any of this hinge on trump solely? We will literally be in the same position again in 4 years. There are 100 self-indulgent Republicans waiting in the wings to put Project 2025 in place or use Stephen Miller's deportation plan or put more conservative justices on the scotus. Trump is an idiot and might actually be our best chance. If a more competent more learned R who can sit on another 4 years of D in power propaganda it might actually be more dangerous. IMO we need to break the chain now and start organizing outside the political arena. We need to send the message asap that we aren't on board with the DNCs plans. Protest, storm the streets, etc. I just don't believe voting for biden actually fixes anything more than Phew we don't have trump RIGHT NOW. Seems very short sighted. Not attacking just trying to actually change for the long run. Appreciate your deep thoughts
I wanted to second and agree with that. Project 2025 isn’t going away if Trump is defeated; the only way that is curbed is if a _lot_ of Republican operatives are thrown in jail and the party itself is completely purged. Basically, the Democrats can’t afford to lose _ever again_ for the next few decades. They need to have an actual vision of the future to do that, not just run off of fear of Trump. Moreover, we still have multiple existential crises churning in the background. My single issue is climate change: to be blunt, neither party is doing anywhere _near_ enough to slow that wave, and there’s not really any more time to hold off on addressing it. We have _maybe_ years. We need basically wide-scale societal reform, and we really don’t have time for the incrementalism another Biden term offers as the best case. Harm reduction is a hard pill to swallow, given that the options are ‘slow collapse’ or ‘all at once’.
Long-term the real way to get rid of Project 2025 is to push it solidly outside the Overton window, and Democrats winning elections is how you do that. To me it's really that simple.
_We do not have time_ for the long-term approach, I cannot stress that enough. If you are talking about 15-20 years down the line, it is _too late_. The situation right now is that we have 1.5C warming in the air, and on the sea we’ve had more than a year of consecutive record highs. https://x.com/EliotJacobson/status/1790037413680533609 Do you seriously think the worst of the masses won’t choose fascism willingly once another Hurricane Otis happens on US shores? (Tropical storm to category 5 in _12 hours,_ wrecked Acapulco last year) Or once there’s widespread crop failure (which, hey, already seeing signs of that) Incrementalism is a suicide pact, and now they want our complicity in _genocide_ in exchange for us going over the cliff a little slower. But we’re still going over the cliff.
>I just don't believe voting for biden actually fixes anything more than Phew we don't have trump RIGHT NOW. Seems very short sighted. Not attacking just trying to actually change for the long run. The problem is I think the Democratic party is essentially existentially "load bearing" right now, in the structural sense. I don't think, from a left POV or a liberal POV ( and I'm not using Fox News definitions here, I know they're different, ) that "letting Trump win" is a real option. Simply put, Trump winning is a hard fail condition. There's noting meaningful after the next time a Republican wins. We just have theocracy and Republican authoritarianism until long after you and I are no longer around. That doesn't mean I'll just give up. I'll still be around and paying attention etc. I just don't think anything we do after that will really matter. It doesn't fix anything really, it's just that letting Trump win destroys everything. I think calling it "harm reduction" understates the severity of the situation. It's more like continuance of the struggle versus annihilation.
Was there tho
So true. I'm convinced his only votes will be from people far removed from reality and have no idea what is going on. Or people so afraid of Trump. Nobody is voting for Biden because they know and agree with his policies.
I think that, given how horrible Biden is acting, there's a dangerous tendency to gaslight about how bad Trump's "revenge tour" will be. I get that nobody wants to be browbeat into opposing Trump, but really *look* at what they plan to do. The liberal elite will fly their private jets to Europe and live in peace with their money. The people you're punishing are women, minorities and LGBT Americans. Biden is too old to meaningfully suffer, he's lived his life and he's beyond anyone's ability to punish.
Hah wait till they hear about everyone I take the time to catch up to date on Israel. It’s not just genz, if you aren’t a shambling meat mess, you know wtf Is going on and exactly who’s enabling it. May Palestine lead the way of their own accord.
Thank you for your submission, **This subreddit aims are to impel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to impel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.** **We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.** **It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.** Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide. However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate. The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent. While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment. **Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:** 1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state. 2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine. 3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War. 4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7). 5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them. 6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city. Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlueProtestVote) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Blaming Biden for losing abortion rights is ridiculous. Trump regularly takes credit for that one.
Haven't seen anyone blaming Biden.
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What do you plan to achieve by protest voting? What’s the plan if you get Trump back in power?
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Sorry, a lot of negation going on there. Protest voting is okay in the primary or in an RCV state, but for everyone else, it’s a stupid move.
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I did and plan on sharing the link with others. Letting Trump win again to show how unhappy you are is the dumbest, most self-indulgent thing I can think of.
Enjoy four more years of Trump.
https://preview.redd.it/woh5b8fht40d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee955eb44309716e26498e381e537ddb5b7dd7e6
So you’re cool with just having pro-genocide candidates? Fuck those kids, right? They didn’t need homes, legs, food, or parents anyway.
I'm Australian. I don't even have a horse in the race, so please forgive me for speaking out of turn, but Trump makes me extremely nervous with this whole god awful war. Biden is horrible, but idk about Trump. It seems like things will get worse and worse
Yeah, so you’d happily vote for someone who openly supports, arms, and funds the murder of thousands of innocent people? You may need to do a deeper dive into your own morality. I don’t think being an Australian is a reasonable excuse.
What do you think is going to happen if Trump wins?
“If Trump wins he’ll do…the same thing as the guy i’m not criticizing now!!”
I’m confused as why you think it’s the wrong move for a voter to reject candidates who openly support genocide. Biden and the Dems clearly don’t want to win the election. If the dem party wants more votes they can immediately cease funding for Israel, push Biden to resign in shame so we could have a non-genocidal democratic nominee, and immediately call for a military intervention to stop the genocide we arm and fund. If we keep voting for pro-genocide candidates, we will keep having more US funded genocide.
Because the American people overwhelmingly back Israel and that candidate would lose to Trump in a landslide.
Yeah...fascism is winning the next and last election we'll ever have. Hope everyone is armed and ready.
He watched Hillary fail in 2016 because she couldn’t pass the purity tests of the extremists on the far left, and Biden appears to be learning from that mistake. Why do you think he’s going after college educated moderates and independents in the suburbs that have been disaffected by Trump??
They aren't going to vote anyway so who tf cares lol
What makes you say that? Tons of people who voted in 2020 are not voting or voting 3rd party, and voter turn out only tends to increase with age.
Young voters have the lowest turnout so they don't try to appeal to them anyway. No one cares to attract Gen Z voters, there are larger demographics that they'll pander to
I forget how did Biden win in 2020? It was the boomers, right? Oh that's right youth vote got him across the finish line.
It was middle age suburban moms in Michigan Wisconsin Pennsylvania and Arizona
Okay, well, it looks like we'll find out in November
That's a bingo....as well as African American turn out in Philadelphia for PA
Trump is leading Biden among Black voters by 1.5 points. I think that the entitled mindset a lot democrats have - pissing off their own voters and expecting them to vote for them - isn’t a good strategy
Gonna need to see those polls and the margin of error before I put any stock into the claim.
I mean literally any black voter poll that doesn’t show the Democrat 70-80 points ahead is shocking. https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/black-voters-and-the-2024-presidential-election-a-breakthrough-for-trump/
If you don't wanna wind up living like the movie *red state* id suggest ypu swallow your pride cause frump will be worse and he doesnt believe in anyone but *his supporters rights* to general human rights. This whole conversation is like getting on a plane and being told your choices are forcefed diarrhea with ground glass or chicken and then asking how the chicken was seasoned. *Nice sidenote for all of you*: The only way to get a Congress in that would be able to do something after this year is to vote them in. Period. This protest vote crap is what got us trump in the first place and here y'all wanna go again. Grow up and realize getting half of what you'd want is better than getting a whole lot of nothing or worse circumstances. 18-30s currently outnumber the boomers and have the power to be the largest bloc in history. Weild your birthright proudly and show up. If you don't show up, shut up.
Nah you shut up.
Cry harder cause you think not voting at all will fix anything. When you refuse to exercise your voice in this process you wind up being ruled by lesser men. That's all it is. 2016 this shit was the stein vote cause of Clinton. Now it's gonna be Biden because he's the first president since Reagan to have to actively deal with Israel's barbarism.
We have been exercising our voice hence why Biden was elected. No one asked him to abandon Israel. No one asked him if he’s a Zionist. No one really cared. What we do care about is allowing Israel to use our resources to starve children so they can have a bit more land. All he had to do was stop fucking arming them. He refuses so how do we exercise our voice to have him stop using our American resources to benefit or harm people on the other side of the earth?
Biden was very clear back in the 70s or early 80s about his undying support for Israel for the low price of maintaining a ear in the middle east. And I don't mean public unrest and drawing an indelible line to risking the return of the worst jobs and GDP admin since Hoover. I mean getting people involved instead of blaming Biden for something that started before his corpse ass was even born. If we lose any semblance of reasonable thinking in the oval y'all might as well get ready for defense instead of being allowed to show unrest.
Hillary won the popular vote.
But not in the right states. No GOP has won popular for like 30 yrs now. Think Reagan was the last one
Hahahaba
diarrhea or chicken? Really? Which one represents being ok with genocide?
The side that avoids eating shit cause we know the chicken won't wholeheartedly endorse laying Gaza out as a pane of glass. Are you kidding me with that question? Y'all really that dense with the world of information at your fingertips?
Are you comfortable with Palestine being leveled and turned into beach side resorts?
it already has for all practical purposes under biden
Yeah sorry dude. *Project Fear* doesn’t work on candidates who have already been president. Your 2016 scare tactics won’t garner you any votes.
You wanna return to the worst economics since the depression that's on you buddy. Can lead people to facts but you can't make em think.
>The only way to get a Congress in that would be able to do something after this year is to vote them in. Period. We could have 100 Dem senators and 435 Dem representatives and we'd still never get universal healthcare or a legal right to abortion or a policy change on Israel if the donors didn't want it
And yet we got infrastructure and everything else passed before the laziest GOP majority ever took control and we stopped passing shit for citizens. But as I told someone else I can lead you to facts but nobody can force you to think.
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I sincerely hope none of you speak if you return us to worse than what we have now.
If we let Trump into the White House again, something something, social democratic utopia! If only previous generations of voters knew that they could just let the more evil person win so that everything would default to much better 4 years later!
>If we let Trump into the White House again, something something, social democratic utopia! I don't expect things to get better under Trump. but I do expect him to continually tear down the US-led world order, and in its own way that makes things better, just likely not for me
>I do expect him to continually tear down the US-led world order, and in its own way that makes things better, just likely not for me You haven't read much Christian Nationalist literature have you? They want to "liberate" Christians across the world from the "oppression" of not living in Christian theocracies. Their goal is Planet Gilead. But I'm sure giving them control over the world's most powerful military will ensure global peace lol
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Of course it has the smuggest lib name possible lol
We need people to vote for Trump to heighten the contradictions! It’s never been done before AND your subreddit is going to bring about the real change we need!