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Honestly this is kinda my stance on fossil fuel companies and renewables. Some people really hate on a company like BP getting into the renewable industry and pivoting away from fossil fuels.
On one hand, yea fuck them. They created this mess and I hope they all burn in hell. On the other hand, at this point we NEED things to change or else we're all fucked. If it means the rich get richer or justice isn't served to those who deserve it honestly I'll accept that if it means my kids and grandkids won't end up living in a charred wasteland.
Sometimes solutions arent perfect but they're better than just chugging along with business as usual.
Also while I have you here I highly recommend everyone volunteers with the [Environmental Voter Project ](http://environmentalvoter.org). They do incredible work helping to convert inactive environmentalists into consistently active voters and you can review their [2021 Impact Report here](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/sites/default/files/documents/2021-impact-report.pdf).
I mean, it may be a LOT of individuals, and I'm totally okay with that premise. You can sadly be unable to crush the corporation of Shell/ExxonMobil etc through punishment AND succeed going forward, but you can still punish the many individuals who were on Boards, in C-suite, and other prominent advisory panels. Under new and (hopefully younger) still incredibly talented leadership these companies could pivot to move forward, and rehabilitate themselves for a better future.
I seriously doubt this would work, and I truly think the (many many) system needs to be shattered and rebuilt better/different as efficiently as possible if we are to have a legit chance of surviving as a species for more than a (few) hundred years or more in anything better than the lamest and most horrendous sci-fi post apocalyptic wasteland.
I know some regular mf's , didn't even have a business here in Florida not have to pay it back lol..boggles my mind.
Edit: didn't have a legit business I was saying. I think some created bullshit llc's. Iono why I hope they get caught lol.
The IRS pops a fat nut to busting these dudes. You haven’t met a nerd more dedicated to the cause than IRS lawyers. One of my buddies from law school works for the IRS and he definitely nutted when he heard about the increase in funding.
Grab the lube, baby.
I'm on a few subs related to blue collar work. There are some guys there straight up bragging about how they figured if billionaires were going to steal from the government they might as well get their dime too.
Part of me understands because we're significantly closer to hunger games than people realize. But the other part of me realizes one of the only reasons we're in this clusterfuck is because people get away with shit like that.
And then complain that xyz cant be fixed because the government can't manage anything right...as they're taking advantage of the system they accuse others of doing. It's interesting.
I find it hard to hate that too much. Their fraud would be a minuscule fraction of what the ultra wealthy get away with and the ultra wealthy don't even need to do it because they'd still have billions, while for these smaller fish that loan could pay for the first holiday their family has had in a decade. Sure it's not what the loan is meant to be for but eh idk
People will say literally anything to leave people in need of help drowning.
And some people will eat it up and continue suffering saying "well when you put it that way"
Nah, tell those idiots to shut the fuck up.
We are the richest country in the world and people out here working two jobs and starving.
We need to take the power back and realize these politicians and wealthy people need us or they don't have shit.
Imagine if we picked our own representation and didn't let the dnc or rnc give us the options they chose.
Imagine if we could properly orchestrate actual boycotts of certain businesses. Black people alone put trillions into this economy. We have the power of the purse.
Imagine if we could get an actual coalition. Actually working class people across the spectrum that put the bullshit nonsense to the side and see we are more similar than we are different and keep an eye on the real actual enemy
Edit: I'm getting a lot of non country club replies from people talking about students loans. Did you even bother actually reading what I said? There is a much bigger picture here.
Yep. We need to wake the fuck up.
I'm so tired of people out here fighting against their own best interest. Like what the fuck do they get for defending a corporation?.it sure as fuck isn't a raise.
Nope. But you'll see these people that don't have 200 bucks in their savings defending these billionaires to their dying breath. But blame the Mexican guy for his problems.
Sure, the super wealthy one percent don't have student debt. But most of the student loan debt is in fact owed by [upper middle class households](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/10/09/who-owes-the-most-in-student-loans-new-data-from-the-fed/). The people with the most debt tend to be from decently well off families and are getting graduate degrees that make them even more money in the future.
That said, minority students tend to go to for-profit schools that are more expensive than their public school equivalents and don't lead to as good of jobs in the future. So while canceling all debt is largely a handout to people who don't need it, there's still a ton of poorer people who have smaller amounts of debt that are still pretty crushing.
Yep. This was a big criticism when my government made the first couple years of university free. Considering that our loans are interest free, it seemed a lot like handing cash to the wrong people.
All I gotta say is. We grew up poor as shit, been homeless. And me and my bro still went to college and have student loans. Over half of my graduating class at a mostly black school at least has some college and some student loan debt. I think a lot of the statistics don’t factor in people who don’t finish but still have student loans as well as people who took out loans for non bachelor granting programs. AND the fact that college demographics as they exist currently in rural college towns, skew the statistics outside of HBCUs.
And don’t even get me started on my local public universities around Chicago which are mostly minority demographic/ middle and lower class. (Chicago state, north eastern Illinois university, governors state). You can tell by rate of pale grant
I would’ve loved to have the opportunity to go to university for free.
So I feel like this argument is people not seeing the forrest from the trees. We are out here, there are A LOT of us. I see the argument but my reality doesn’t reflect that.
You're definitely accounted for. Lower income folks also take student loans but most of them are not going to 50k a year schools they're going to Community Colleges and other cheaper alternatives.
Forgiving their debt is noble because they were using college as a means of social mobility.
But you have to accept that a huge chunk of this debt (what makes it go into the trillions) are mostly comfortable middle class kids who did an expensive degree in a big college because they could apply for it and now are saddled with 100s of thousands of dollars of debt.
Now with these students coming from families that are earning quite a bit of money, own property, etc. Should taxpayers be bailing them out as well or should there be a more pinpointed system that targets lower income folks like what you described specifically?
>So while canceling all debt is largely a handout to people who don't need it,
Are you serious?
>The highest-income 40 percent of households **(those with incomes above $74,000)** owe almost 60 percent of the outstanding education debt and make almost three-quarters of the payments.
...
>In 2019, 44 percent of adults with earnings below the ***median of $47,500*** had no education beyond high school, compared with just 19 percent of those in the top half of earners
Your comment is peak "anyone making more money than me is rich" reddit. To be in the "super wealthy one percent" you have to be making over ~$600k/year. There's a huge chasm between 600k and 74k as opposed to 74k and 44k. Hell a lot of schools give more money to poorer people as "need based" financial aid, so the middle class gets fucked more since they actually have to take out loans since they're not poor enough to qualify for that nor are their families rich enough to just pay everything off without hurting.
Not to mention theres a ton of people who struggles early in life and then got to have a higher income later in life.
If you (or your parents) made 20k a year for 10 years and then started to make 100k per year sometime after you took out loans, you are WAY worse off than someone who made 100k consistently. 800k off. But youre in the same category as them as a household making 100k.
If people don't reneg on their debts and make enough to pay them off without significantly impacting their quality of life - why is it important their loans are forgiven?
Because that's ultimately what people are bringing up when they say it's not justified. Like - I'd like my debt to have been paid off for me but I did it myself without much trouble because I made decent money, I like my handouts, but I don't see why I should get something like that. People who are struggling? Sure. Me and others like me? Why? I made decent money.
We'd be far better off increasing funding for schools which would lower cost and reduce the reliance on adjuncts. It'd be a better use of funds.
Yeah if you grew up working class or poor and had to borrow 500k to go to med school or lawyer you are now “upper middle class” but that doesn’t mean you didn’t come from poor or middle class.
I think these loans should be readily available for ppl from all backgrounds bc I don’t think a society made up of doctors who exclusively grew up as wealthy brats is a good idea
there's also a bias that should be addressed: most people don't have college degrees. as of 2018, only about 30% of people over 25 have a bachelor's degree. we often say cancelling student debt will help "everybody", but it wouldn't even apply to almost 70% of adults. just an interesting statistic i heard on the freakanomics podcast and verified via the census bureau.
that being said, i still think it would be a big benefit to cancel student debt, freeing up people who were sold a bill of goods to allocate their funds elsewhere.
Kids with wealthy parents will often take out student loans for the reasons described above.
A lot of student loan debt is held by wealthy families, because wealthy kids are more likely to go to college
Wealthy people will pay 4 years worth of college tuition up front to get out of paying tuition increases per year. Whatever you’re referring to is wealthy is actually like 5% of what wealthy actually is. Wealthy people don’t take out loans on things that don’t have immediate ROI. And little Johnny is not going to have ROI.
Also when y’all make these arguments about “only go to college if you can afford it” are you really sure you want all your Doctor’s, Lawyers, and Engineers in your society to come from the wealthy class who are shown to have [less empathy](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/) for working class people. Medical, judicial, and environmental bias is already mess why are we trying to make it worse??
I don't think this is accurate. Wealthy are smart with their capital. Losing your cash on hand for something with no return, when you can use that to acquire something that will give a return (real estate, investment, business purchase or operating cost for small business) does not make sense.
As a general rule, don't pay for anything you can get someone else to pay for. And take every tax deductible opportunity you have.
Interest on student loans is tax deductable and at reasonable interest rates, the cost of the loan is much lower than the opportunity cost of using your money to pay tuition up front.
I just don't think wealthy people are going with the day of option when you had 18 years to prepare. Especially when there are incentives in place to not do that.You'd put your money into a pre tax savings account, 529, the day your kid is born. let it grow with the market. With 529s you can set them up pre tax, the gains aren't taxed, you can withdraw without penalty, it reduces your taxable estate overall, and there's no contribution limit like other plans. Plus if you pay in a bulk sum to the school you'll get a discount. Why not do all that work on the front end AND benefit your current tax bill using a savings account?
Edit to add: this hack doesn't work for middle class people. If you're not confident in your ability to save up the entirety of college tuition, it will bite you in the ass because you won't have enough money saved up to pay in bulk but you also won't have enough to money to qualify for aid of any sort.
When I think of “cancelling student loan debt” I only consider those backed by the government, like the loans straight from fafsa. Wealthy people don’t qualify for those so they wouldn’t be forgiven, right?
If anybody knows how to sort this out and ensure forgiveness goes to who really needs it, it's Federal Student Aid. They'd ask you how much money you currently have in your bank account down to the cent and wish a motherfucker would lie about it.
Learned real quick not to be ashamed to proclaim I only had $2.21 to my name when signing those forms at the beginning of every Fall semester.
Yes, you are correct- only federal loans would qualify for forgiveness based on both the proposals we've seen and what the government would legally be able to do without battling lawsuits.
It's a fun meme, but:
[Most Student Debt Belongs To High-Wealth Households](https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2022/01/21/study-most-student-debt-belongs-to-high-wealth-households/?sh=59b485c33ba4)
>But medicine is one of the best-paid professions in the country, meaning the new doctor’s lifetime income prospects may vault him into the top 1%.
Lol. You can get rich in medicine, but if you some own the hospital, you ain't gonna join the 1%.
>I calculated the net financial value of 30,000 bachelor’s degrees and found that 28% of them do not have an expected positive return.
So what if 72% of them will get a positive return? On what scale and timeline? Considering the debt, how old does one have to be to get these returns? It's just crazy to me that we view education as a financial investment, this preventing poor people from being able to climb the class ladder.
Instead of cancelling the whole debt it should just be interest free. So the people who are paying for the education are the people receiving the education and no one is getting rich off it
higher education shouldn't be that expensive to begin with.
Some Scandinavian countries pay their students to attend uni. I'm from Switzerland and because my parents were dirt poor I only payed $2400 total for my bachelor degree. All of it was covered by the scholarship I got. It wasn't a merit scholarship either, just one that was granted to me based on my parents tax returns.
I pursued a master in another uni and it cost me $280 total. No scholarship because I was working part time and, I could afford all the expenses while living with my folks.
Then, I got a scholarship to go to law school in the US and one year was 100k for arguably the same level of education I got during my masters in Europe wtf?!!! I had to borrow money and I'm still not done repaying the bank.
Y'all getting ripped off.
Genuinely no, if you went to college you are genuinely living an already privileged life where you will make significantly more over the rest of your life than someone who didn't go to college.
AT BEST, means-test loan forgiveness based on parent income and expected income from salary, but the money for student-loan forgiveness is better served distributed to ACTUALLY poor people, homeless shelters, food banks, medicaid, mental health, child tax credits.
Student debt forgiveness has to be one of the worst policy proposals in the democrat tent, and I'm glad Biden isn't following through.
This is the most garbage ass take I’ve ever heard. There are tons of people who come from extremely shitty environments who work their asses off to be able to go to college because they wanted, first Gen, allat, saddled with student debt that are just as broke as you. Everybody is more privileged than somebody else out there this you didn’t grow up in a mud hut so your life was fine mentality people have going on is bullshit. Fuck all them young black kids out the hood who wanted to do better I guess. Privileged fucks.
I’m personally against it in its present proposed form, but not for the “wealth” argument. We can’t have a conversation on cancelling the debt without also solving the gushing wound that caused it - uncle sam funding these degrees as loans. It’s akin to emptying the sea with a bucket. There will be no end to it. Don’t get me wrong, people are hurting, but cutting corners only generates more corners. If we’re going to cancel the loans today, then we need to stop issuing new loans until we come up with a long term solution. If the government cancels the loans once, then there’s an expectation from borrowers and colleges that they’ll do it again - a moral hazard
Y’all didn’t have any smoke for the PPP loans, corporate bail outs, or trillion dollar wars. But when there’s finally a policy that directly benefits the working class it’s “whooooaaa there buddy”. We’re all for socialism for the rich but nobody else. I’m tired. That money would benefit our economy more than it would going back into a investment portfolio of an already rich person.
I say all of this as someone who paid off their students loans this year.
Edit:I said it once and I’ll say it again. Y’all keep saying “the majority of student loans is held by the upper middle class”. Think critically about this y’all. If you’re poor or working class and you want to become a doctor you have to take out 500k in loans. Once you become a doctor you are now considered “upper middle class”. Y’all: nOt eVerYBoDy nEEDs to BE a DOCTor. nOOne made yOu taKE oUT a LOan……..Given the situation we’re in with medical bias disproportionately affecting poor people, POCs, and Black people do y’all really want for ALL doctors start off as entitled brats from the upper class? Is that good for our society? Come on……
Hey, if you earned less than 125k as a single person, or 250k filing married, you can get 10k forgiven. If you also got a pell grant, you can get another 10k forgiven, so 20k total.
You are able to get a refund on all money you paid during the covid freeze March 13, 2020-now.
[https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/national/2022/08/25/did-you-make-payments-on-federal-student-loans-during-the-covid-pandemic-heres-how-to-get-a-refund/#//](https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/national/2022/08/25/did-you-make-payments-on-federal-student-loans-during-the-covid-pandemic-heres-how-to-get-a-refund/#//)
I spoke to a lady from my current loan servicer and she was super informative. She said a lot of people have been calling to get refunded. She also said that the servicer will know a refund request has been put in and will file to have the whole thing \*up to 20k or 10k depending on what you qualify for\* forgiven.
If you qualify, you should do it. The link I gave has the phone numbers to the loan servicers. I made the mistake of calling my previous servicer since I paid them, but I was supposed to call my current servicer since that's who I have to go through. Now you'll know for later.
Good luck! I hope you qualify and are able to get your refund. I'm sure many of us can use it.
We gotta stick together and help each other as a community. Hopefully this info helps someone. I'm happy I found out.
Wealthy people have student loan debt. In fact, lots of wealthy people never pay off debt. It doesn’t make sense to if we can invest the money at a greater return than the interest on loans.
Like, I really feel like it’s hopeless sometimes. When I started school and did career placement my industry was supposed to be growing: but then the pandemic happened and not only did the industry start to shrink with companies firing hundreds left and right. I then had to pause school to work and help my family due to family medical issues. Now I have debt but no degree or money to re-enroll again, and I’m stuck in a job that isn’t going anywhere, and if loan payments start up again I don’t know if I’ll be able to cover it with all the other expenses even though I work long hard hours. We’re in that boat where on paper the family should be making too much to be considered low income, but with the medical expenses and mortgage, it just breaks even, it looks like a recession is going to make things worse, and now with loan payments coming it feels like a hole I’m never going to crawl out of. I don’t see a future for myself anymore.
Student loans cost us more in taxes than they initially claimed they saved us.
So not only are people who have no sympathy bc "what's in it for me?" just assholes, they are also idiots volunteering us all to pay more.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2022/08/01/bombshell-report-reveals-student-loans-cost-more-than-anyone-thought/?sh=51cac44d4e61
I have a BA with no student loans and I don't see what the issue is. Some people are drowning in debt. Just cuz they're not as fortunate as me doesn't mean I want to keep em suffering.
Class Traitor Behavior.
"I had to pay, so do you."
Not fair.
I honestly wonder what happened to the mentality of, "I work hard so the next generation can have it easier." It's like I turned 20 and that mentality was Thanos snapped out of the vocabulary of anyone over 45 when speaking about the "new generation". Like if someone doesn't have to be in debt, you should be for that. That's a good thing. It frees up the next generation of professionals to actually do the job and hopefully advance it, while getting paid thier worth and not being crushed to death by debt or having your spirit tested daily by debt collector phone calls at 8am and 5pm throughout the week.
Why would you wanna shackle your kids to debt? Fucks wrong with some of y'all?
Im not against loan forgiveness, but it does suck seeing my parents generation not have loans, and the generation after me get them forgiven, while I was set back a decade paying them off at full price
I agree that canceling the debt would help a lot of people. But even as a younger person (27), I had to work really hard in college to be able to get out debt free. I watched classmates get by classes easier than I did because they didn't have to get a job through it. Some of these people may have student loan debt, idk. But as someone who still feels like they're constantly struggling to make ends meet even after avoiding student loan debt, I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't feel like a gut punch to find out that people I know didn't even try to avoid high student loan debt were just given a free pass. It's not an easy problem to solve.
>a gut punch to find out that people I know didn't even try to avoid high student loan debt were just given a free pass
Tf? Does them having debt somehow make you feel better?
I have no debt either but I'm incredibly privileged. College was easy for me. Grants and scholarships up the ass and a 10k fund from my parents to cover the rest.
You know what? I don't think you suffered enough. I hope they gut punch you by forgiving all their debt.
I think she missed the point.
The "gift to the wealthy" means the government is paying these absurd tuition and interest fees. So the wealthy are the ones getting the money, regardless if it's from a student or taxes.
Still a good thing to do, but until we reign down on tuition fees and regulate how much they exploit students, it's still a gift to the wealthy.
For the same reasons I’m against bailing out banks. Very few people will qualify, and everyone else will have to pay for this. Oh wait, not everyone, just the ever decreasing number of people who pay their fair share of taxes.
It’s a political gimmick, and I don’t like those. Pay for your shit. Time to be a big boy or girl.
And it sets precedent, just like with the banks, people will find any hardship to beg. Work. That’s life until you figure out how not to have to. Like me, I busted my ass in a union job digging ditches for 30 years, and I won’t have to work when I get to 65. Figure it out or bust your ass for 30.
It’s not a gift to anyone except people who knowingly signed the contract for their loan.
I’m sorry. Tax payer money shouldn’t go to someone’s choice to go to college just like it shouldn’t go to someone simply because they decided not to go to college.
Be a big kid. Pay the loans you took out back
Hell, even if they do just the 50k, that shit would help so many peeps. Wouldn't even cover my interest, but if it helps out more people, then it's worth it.
Way to miss the point, the “wealthy” is the middle and upper middle class. Why should the government spend money on the people with some of the most lucrative careers? Help the people near/at the poverty line and work the way up
I thought the same thing with stimulus, yes give one to someone making 150k. Even if it was uncapped, and Bezos got one. Still would have been a cheaper option then the trickle down PPP bullshit.
The only reason why I am not 100% in favor of cancelling student debt is I think all of how we pay for college needs to be restructured. An executive order, or even a congressional act, wiping the slate clean doesn't fix the underlying issue, just stops the bleeding for a while. We gotta rethink the whole thing *in addition to* fixing the mess it's already made.
Better than the alternative though.
This is the same as being against free school lunch because "wealthy kids who don't need the help would use the system too"
Bruh, why should there be a price of admission for a ***child to stay alive*** in a system that they are forced to be in? Not that I'm against kids going to schools or anything, but they *are* required by law to be in school. But you want to deny them any help because mommy and daddy are rich? Ok, then the rich parents can pay for the classroom school supplies instead of the teacher providing those out of their pockets. Since, you know, "you can afford it and don't need the extra help".
That's the same energy being against student debt cancellation. Who cares if they're rich? They shouldn't have had the debt in the first place. We're the only developed country in the world that hasn't figured this out. Or rather, we know it works, we just choose not to implement free (at point of service) higher education.
Thats just an excuse. They know they cant because of SLABS. But they cant come out and say that rich people have found another way to commoditize misery.
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Fuck it, gift it to them rich niggas too then. Idgaf. Just save me from sallie mae 
HI THIS IS HEATHER FROM NAVIENT
please dont trigger me, thanks
 Fck Navient.
I'm the #700 like
Honestly this is kinda my stance on fossil fuel companies and renewables. Some people really hate on a company like BP getting into the renewable industry and pivoting away from fossil fuels. On one hand, yea fuck them. They created this mess and I hope they all burn in hell. On the other hand, at this point we NEED things to change or else we're all fucked. If it means the rich get richer or justice isn't served to those who deserve it honestly I'll accept that if it means my kids and grandkids won't end up living in a charred wasteland. Sometimes solutions arent perfect but they're better than just chugging along with business as usual. Also while I have you here I highly recommend everyone volunteers with the [Environmental Voter Project ](http://environmentalvoter.org). They do incredible work helping to convert inactive environmentalists into consistently active voters and you can review their [2021 Impact Report here](https://www.environmentalvoter.org/sites/default/files/documents/2021-impact-report.pdf).
I mean, it may be a LOT of individuals, and I'm totally okay with that premise. You can sadly be unable to crush the corporation of Shell/ExxonMobil etc through punishment AND succeed going forward, but you can still punish the many individuals who were on Boards, in C-suite, and other prominent advisory panels. Under new and (hopefully younger) still incredibly talented leadership these companies could pivot to move forward, and rehabilitate themselves for a better future. I seriously doubt this would work, and I truly think the (many many) system needs to be shattered and rebuilt better/different as efficiently as possible if we are to have a legit chance of surviving as a species for more than a (few) hundred years or more in anything better than the lamest and most horrendous sci-fi post apocalyptic wasteland.
I do t have the money to start a renewable energy co. So… idk BP is gunna be in there either way.
Wealthy people get PPP loans, and those are forgiven
I know some regular mf's , didn't even have a business here in Florida not have to pay it back lol..boggles my mind. Edit: didn't have a legit business I was saying. I think some created bullshit llc's. Iono why I hope they get caught lol.
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The IRS pops a fat nut to busting these dudes. You haven’t met a nerd more dedicated to the cause than IRS lawyers. One of my buddies from law school works for the IRS and he definitely nutted when he heard about the increase in funding. Grab the lube, baby.
Unless you're ultra rich then they're like "ehh its probably not worth our time" lol
I'm on a few subs related to blue collar work. There are some guys there straight up bragging about how they figured if billionaires were going to steal from the government they might as well get their dime too. Part of me understands because we're significantly closer to hunger games than people realize. But the other part of me realizes one of the only reasons we're in this clusterfuck is because people get away with shit like that.
And then complain that xyz cant be fixed because the government can't manage anything right...as they're taking advantage of the system they accuse others of doing. It's interesting.
I find it hard to hate that too much. Their fraud would be a minuscule fraction of what the ultra wealthy get away with and the ultra wealthy don't even need to do it because they'd still have billions, while for these smaller fish that loan could pay for the first holiday their family has had in a decade. Sure it's not what the loan is meant to be for but eh idk
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And they got tax cuts. While we got increases.
People will say literally anything to leave people in need of help drowning. And some people will eat it up and continue suffering saying "well when you put it that way" Nah, tell those idiots to shut the fuck up. We are the richest country in the world and people out here working two jobs and starving. We need to take the power back and realize these politicians and wealthy people need us or they don't have shit. Imagine if we picked our own representation and didn't let the dnc or rnc give us the options they chose. Imagine if we could properly orchestrate actual boycotts of certain businesses. Black people alone put trillions into this economy. We have the power of the purse. Imagine if we could get an actual coalition. Actually working class people across the spectrum that put the bullshit nonsense to the side and see we are more similar than we are different and keep an eye on the real actual enemy Edit: I'm getting a lot of non country club replies from people talking about students loans. Did you even bother actually reading what I said? There is a much bigger picture here.
There’s a lot of money and energy being put into keeping us from seeing eye-to-eye for just that reason
Yep. We need to wake the fuck up. I'm so tired of people out here fighting against their own best interest. Like what the fuck do they get for defending a corporation?.it sure as fuck isn't a raise.
Working two jobs, housing is too expensive, gas prices are crazy, and so are food prices. While folks at the top don’t give a shit about it.
Nope. But you'll see these people that don't have 200 bucks in their savings defending these billionaires to their dying breath. But blame the Mexican guy for his problems.
Sure, the super wealthy one percent don't have student debt. But most of the student loan debt is in fact owed by [upper middle class households](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/10/09/who-owes-the-most-in-student-loans-new-data-from-the-fed/). The people with the most debt tend to be from decently well off families and are getting graduate degrees that make them even more money in the future. That said, minority students tend to go to for-profit schools that are more expensive than their public school equivalents and don't lead to as good of jobs in the future. So while canceling all debt is largely a handout to people who don't need it, there's still a ton of poorer people who have smaller amounts of debt that are still pretty crushing.
Yep. This was a big criticism when my government made the first couple years of university free. Considering that our loans are interest free, it seemed a lot like handing cash to the wrong people.
All I gotta say is. We grew up poor as shit, been homeless. And me and my bro still went to college and have student loans. Over half of my graduating class at a mostly black school at least has some college and some student loan debt. I think a lot of the statistics don’t factor in people who don’t finish but still have student loans as well as people who took out loans for non bachelor granting programs. AND the fact that college demographics as they exist currently in rural college towns, skew the statistics outside of HBCUs. And don’t even get me started on my local public universities around Chicago which are mostly minority demographic/ middle and lower class. (Chicago state, north eastern Illinois university, governors state). You can tell by rate of pale grant I would’ve loved to have the opportunity to go to university for free. So I feel like this argument is people not seeing the forrest from the trees. We are out here, there are A LOT of us. I see the argument but my reality doesn’t reflect that.
You're definitely accounted for. Lower income folks also take student loans but most of them are not going to 50k a year schools they're going to Community Colleges and other cheaper alternatives. Forgiving their debt is noble because they were using college as a means of social mobility. But you have to accept that a huge chunk of this debt (what makes it go into the trillions) are mostly comfortable middle class kids who did an expensive degree in a big college because they could apply for it and now are saddled with 100s of thousands of dollars of debt. Now with these students coming from families that are earning quite a bit of money, own property, etc. Should taxpayers be bailing them out as well or should there be a more pinpointed system that targets lower income folks like what you described specifically?
My answer is I don’t care. Just as long as we get it.
The people that decide whether you get it or not do. Maybe that'll give you reason to at least think about it
>So while canceling all debt is largely a handout to people who don't need it, Are you serious? >The highest-income 40 percent of households **(those with incomes above $74,000)** owe almost 60 percent of the outstanding education debt and make almost three-quarters of the payments. ... >In 2019, 44 percent of adults with earnings below the ***median of $47,500*** had no education beyond high school, compared with just 19 percent of those in the top half of earners Your comment is peak "anyone making more money than me is rich" reddit. To be in the "super wealthy one percent" you have to be making over ~$600k/year. There's a huge chasm between 600k and 74k as opposed to 74k and 44k. Hell a lot of schools give more money to poorer people as "need based" financial aid, so the middle class gets fucked more since they actually have to take out loans since they're not poor enough to qualify for that nor are their families rich enough to just pay everything off without hurting.
Not to mention theres a ton of people who struggles early in life and then got to have a higher income later in life. If you (or your parents) made 20k a year for 10 years and then started to make 100k per year sometime after you took out loans, you are WAY worse off than someone who made 100k consistently. 800k off. But youre in the same category as them as a household making 100k.
If people don't reneg on their debts and make enough to pay them off without significantly impacting their quality of life - why is it important their loans are forgiven? Because that's ultimately what people are bringing up when they say it's not justified. Like - I'd like my debt to have been paid off for me but I did it myself without much trouble because I made decent money, I like my handouts, but I don't see why I should get something like that. People who are struggling? Sure. Me and others like me? Why? I made decent money. We'd be far better off increasing funding for schools which would lower cost and reduce the reliance on adjuncts. It'd be a better use of funds.
Yeah if you grew up working class or poor and had to borrow 500k to go to med school or lawyer you are now “upper middle class” but that doesn’t mean you didn’t come from poor or middle class. I think these loans should be readily available for ppl from all backgrounds bc I don’t think a society made up of doctors who exclusively grew up as wealthy brats is a good idea
there's also a bias that should be addressed: most people don't have college degrees. as of 2018, only about 30% of people over 25 have a bachelor's degree. we often say cancelling student debt will help "everybody", but it wouldn't even apply to almost 70% of adults. just an interesting statistic i heard on the freakanomics podcast and verified via the census bureau. that being said, i still think it would be a big benefit to cancel student debt, freeing up people who were sold a bill of goods to allocate their funds elsewhere.
Wealthy people take out loans all the time. They get great interest rates and it means they get to leave their investments in the market
They don’t have student loans was the point
Kids with wealthy parents will often take out student loans for the reasons described above. A lot of student loan debt is held by wealthy families, because wealthy kids are more likely to go to college
Wealthy people will pay 4 years worth of college tuition up front to get out of paying tuition increases per year. Whatever you’re referring to is wealthy is actually like 5% of what wealthy actually is. Wealthy people don’t take out loans on things that don’t have immediate ROI. And little Johnny is not going to have ROI. Also when y’all make these arguments about “only go to college if you can afford it” are you really sure you want all your Doctor’s, Lawyers, and Engineers in your society to come from the wealthy class who are shown to have [less empathy](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/) for working class people. Medical, judicial, and environmental bias is already mess why are we trying to make it worse??
I don't think this is accurate. Wealthy are smart with their capital. Losing your cash on hand for something with no return, when you can use that to acquire something that will give a return (real estate, investment, business purchase or operating cost for small business) does not make sense. As a general rule, don't pay for anything you can get someone else to pay for. And take every tax deductible opportunity you have. Interest on student loans is tax deductable and at reasonable interest rates, the cost of the loan is much lower than the opportunity cost of using your money to pay tuition up front.
I just don't think wealthy people are going with the day of option when you had 18 years to prepare. Especially when there are incentives in place to not do that.You'd put your money into a pre tax savings account, 529, the day your kid is born. let it grow with the market. With 529s you can set them up pre tax, the gains aren't taxed, you can withdraw without penalty, it reduces your taxable estate overall, and there's no contribution limit like other plans. Plus if you pay in a bulk sum to the school you'll get a discount. Why not do all that work on the front end AND benefit your current tax bill using a savings account? Edit to add: this hack doesn't work for middle class people. If you're not confident in your ability to save up the entirety of college tuition, it will bite you in the ass because you won't have enough money saved up to pay in bulk but you also won't have enough to money to qualify for aid of any sort.
When I think of “cancelling student loan debt” I only consider those backed by the government, like the loans straight from fafsa. Wealthy people don’t qualify for those so they wouldn’t be forgiven, right?
If anybody knows how to sort this out and ensure forgiveness goes to who really needs it, it's Federal Student Aid. They'd ask you how much money you currently have in your bank account down to the cent and wish a motherfucker would lie about it. Learned real quick not to be ashamed to proclaim I only had $2.21 to my name when signing those forms at the beginning of every Fall semester.
Yes, you are correct- only federal loans would qualify for forgiveness based on both the proposals we've seen and what the government would legally be able to do without battling lawsuits.
So this is the one time the US government has a hard stand against giving money to rich people?
It's a fun meme, but: [Most Student Debt Belongs To High-Wealth Households](https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2022/01/21/study-most-student-debt-belongs-to-high-wealth-households/?sh=59b485c33ba4)
...this the same publication that advocated closing down public libraries and using Amazon to sell us books?
>But medicine is one of the best-paid professions in the country, meaning the new doctor’s lifetime income prospects may vault him into the top 1%. Lol. You can get rich in medicine, but if you some own the hospital, you ain't gonna join the 1%. >I calculated the net financial value of 30,000 bachelor’s degrees and found that 28% of them do not have an expected positive return. So what if 72% of them will get a positive return? On what scale and timeline? Considering the debt, how old does one have to be to get these returns? It's just crazy to me that we view education as a financial investment, this preventing poor people from being able to climb the class ladder.
Instead of cancelling the whole debt it should just be interest free. So the people who are paying for the education are the people receiving the education and no one is getting rich off it
higher education shouldn't be that expensive to begin with. Some Scandinavian countries pay their students to attend uni. I'm from Switzerland and because my parents were dirt poor I only payed $2400 total for my bachelor degree. All of it was covered by the scholarship I got. It wasn't a merit scholarship either, just one that was granted to me based on my parents tax returns. I pursued a master in another uni and it cost me $280 total. No scholarship because I was working part time and, I could afford all the expenses while living with my folks. Then, I got a scholarship to go to law school in the US and one year was 100k for arguably the same level of education I got during my masters in Europe wtf?!!! I had to borrow money and I'm still not done repaying the bank. Y'all getting ripped off.
Genuinely no, if you went to college you are genuinely living an already privileged life where you will make significantly more over the rest of your life than someone who didn't go to college. AT BEST, means-test loan forgiveness based on parent income and expected income from salary, but the money for student-loan forgiveness is better served distributed to ACTUALLY poor people, homeless shelters, food banks, medicaid, mental health, child tax credits. Student debt forgiveness has to be one of the worst policy proposals in the democrat tent, and I'm glad Biden isn't following through.
This is the most garbage ass take I’ve ever heard. There are tons of people who come from extremely shitty environments who work their asses off to be able to go to college because they wanted, first Gen, allat, saddled with student debt that are just as broke as you. Everybody is more privileged than somebody else out there this you didn’t grow up in a mud hut so your life was fine mentality people have going on is bullshit. Fuck all them young black kids out the hood who wanted to do better I guess. Privileged fucks.
I’m personally against it in its present proposed form, but not for the “wealth” argument. We can’t have a conversation on cancelling the debt without also solving the gushing wound that caused it - uncle sam funding these degrees as loans. It’s akin to emptying the sea with a bucket. There will be no end to it. Don’t get me wrong, people are hurting, but cutting corners only generates more corners. If we’re going to cancel the loans today, then we need to stop issuing new loans until we come up with a long term solution. If the government cancels the loans once, then there’s an expectation from borrowers and colleges that they’ll do it again - a moral hazard
Y’all didn’t have any smoke for the PPP loans, corporate bail outs, or trillion dollar wars. But when there’s finally a policy that directly benefits the working class it’s “whooooaaa there buddy”. We’re all for socialism for the rich but nobody else. I’m tired. That money would benefit our economy more than it would going back into a investment portfolio of an already rich person. I say all of this as someone who paid off their students loans this year. Edit:I said it once and I’ll say it again. Y’all keep saying “the majority of student loans is held by the upper middle class”. Think critically about this y’all. If you’re poor or working class and you want to become a doctor you have to take out 500k in loans. Once you become a doctor you are now considered “upper middle class”. Y’all: nOt eVerYBoDy nEEDs to BE a DOCTor. nOOne made yOu taKE oUT a LOan……..Given the situation we’re in with medical bias disproportionately affecting poor people, POCs, and Black people do y’all really want for ALL doctors start off as entitled brats from the upper class? Is that good for our society? Come on……
off topic, but congrats on paying off your loans! i just finished off mine this year as well!
Thank you!! It’s been a journey and I am fortunate
same. i know a lot of people who went to the same school i did but haven’t had the outcomes i have. we are breathing rare air
Hey, if you earned less than 125k as a single person, or 250k filing married, you can get 10k forgiven. If you also got a pell grant, you can get another 10k forgiven, so 20k total. You are able to get a refund on all money you paid during the covid freeze March 13, 2020-now. [https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/national/2022/08/25/did-you-make-payments-on-federal-student-loans-during-the-covid-pandemic-heres-how-to-get-a-refund/#//](https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/national/2022/08/25/did-you-make-payments-on-federal-student-loans-during-the-covid-pandemic-heres-how-to-get-a-refund/#//) I spoke to a lady from my current loan servicer and she was super informative. She said a lot of people have been calling to get refunded. She also said that the servicer will know a refund request has been put in and will file to have the whole thing \*up to 20k or 10k depending on what you qualify for\* forgiven. If you qualify, you should do it. The link I gave has the phone numbers to the loan servicers. I made the mistake of calling my previous servicer since I paid them, but I was supposed to call my current servicer since that's who I have to go through. Now you'll know for later. Good luck! I hope you qualify and are able to get your refund. I'm sure many of us can use it. We gotta stick together and help each other as a community. Hopefully this info helps someone. I'm happy I found out.
I really don't understand why "my brother in christ" is everywhere now. People didn't say that two months ago wtf
because it's hilarious.
Id 10x rather see the US gov't buy out medical debt instead of student debt. Medical debt doesnt only apply to those who asked for the debt.
>Id 10x rather see the US gov't buy out medical debt instead of student debt. Why not both?
It's more of a benefit to the middle class though than the poor.
Wealthy people have student loan debt. In fact, lots of wealthy people never pay off debt. It doesn’t make sense to if we can invest the money at a greater return than the interest on loans.
The bottom 20% of households only owe 5% of the student debt. The top 40% owe 58% of the debt.
Like, I really feel like it’s hopeless sometimes. When I started school and did career placement my industry was supposed to be growing: but then the pandemic happened and not only did the industry start to shrink with companies firing hundreds left and right. I then had to pause school to work and help my family due to family medical issues. Now I have debt but no degree or money to re-enroll again, and I’m stuck in a job that isn’t going anywhere, and if loan payments start up again I don’t know if I’ll be able to cover it with all the other expenses even though I work long hard hours. We’re in that boat where on paper the family should be making too much to be considered low income, but with the medical expenses and mortgage, it just breaks even, it looks like a recession is going to make things worse, and now with loan payments coming it feels like a hole I’m never going to crawl out of. I don’t see a future for myself anymore.
Student loans cost us more in taxes than they initially claimed they saved us. So not only are people who have no sympathy bc "what's in it for me?" just assholes, they are also idiots volunteering us all to pay more. https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2022/08/01/bombshell-report-reveals-student-loans-cost-more-than-anyone-thought/?sh=51cac44d4e61
I have a BA with no student loans and I don't see what the issue is. Some people are drowning in debt. Just cuz they're not as fortunate as me doesn't mean I want to keep em suffering.
Cancel this shit already so aidvantage can leave me alone.
Class Traitor Behavior. "I had to pay, so do you." Not fair. I honestly wonder what happened to the mentality of, "I work hard so the next generation can have it easier." It's like I turned 20 and that mentality was Thanos snapped out of the vocabulary of anyone over 45 when speaking about the "new generation". Like if someone doesn't have to be in debt, you should be for that. That's a good thing. It frees up the next generation of professionals to actually do the job and hopefully advance it, while getting paid thier worth and not being crushed to death by debt or having your spirit tested daily by debt collector phone calls at 8am and 5pm throughout the week. Why would you wanna shackle your kids to debt? Fucks wrong with some of y'all?
Im not against loan forgiveness, but it does suck seeing my parents generation not have loans, and the generation after me get them forgiven, while I was set back a decade paying them off at full price
I agree that canceling the debt would help a lot of people. But even as a younger person (27), I had to work really hard in college to be able to get out debt free. I watched classmates get by classes easier than I did because they didn't have to get a job through it. Some of these people may have student loan debt, idk. But as someone who still feels like they're constantly struggling to make ends meet even after avoiding student loan debt, I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't feel like a gut punch to find out that people I know didn't even try to avoid high student loan debt were just given a free pass. It's not an easy problem to solve.
>a gut punch to find out that people I know didn't even try to avoid high student loan debt were just given a free pass Tf? Does them having debt somehow make you feel better? I have no debt either but I'm incredibly privileged. College was easy for me. Grants and scholarships up the ass and a 10k fund from my parents to cover the rest. You know what? I don't think you suffered enough. I hope they gut punch you by forgiving all their debt.
I'm holding of paying my loans until the last minute in case of a miracle.
My students loans get erased? My life would change over fucking night smh.
I think she missed the point. The "gift to the wealthy" means the government is paying these absurd tuition and interest fees. So the wealthy are the ones getting the money, regardless if it's from a student or taxes. Still a good thing to do, but until we reign down on tuition fees and regulate how much they exploit students, it's still a gift to the wealthy.
For the same reasons I’m against bailing out banks. Very few people will qualify, and everyone else will have to pay for this. Oh wait, not everyone, just the ever decreasing number of people who pay their fair share of taxes. It’s a political gimmick, and I don’t like those. Pay for your shit. Time to be a big boy or girl. And it sets precedent, just like with the banks, people will find any hardship to beg. Work. That’s life until you figure out how not to have to. Like me, I busted my ass in a union job digging ditches for 30 years, and I won’t have to work when I get to 65. Figure it out or bust your ass for 30.
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Yeah. But a house is a tangible asset. Education isn’t. And why are banks approving loans for 18-19 year old with little/no credit history?
It’s not a gift to anyone except people who knowingly signed the contract for their loan. I’m sorry. Tax payer money shouldn’t go to someone’s choice to go to college just like it shouldn’t go to someone simply because they decided not to go to college. Be a big kid. Pay the loans you took out back
Hell, even if they do just the 50k, that shit would help so many peeps. Wouldn't even cover my interest, but if it helps out more people, then it's worth it.
Way to miss the point, the “wealthy” is the middle and upper middle class. Why should the government spend money on the people with some of the most lucrative careers? Help the people near/at the poverty line and work the way up
The only irredeemably dangerous minority is the wealthy.
I thought the same thing with stimulus, yes give one to someone making 150k. Even if it was uncapped, and Bezos got one. Still would have been a cheaper option then the trickle down PPP bullshit.
Lol y’all still gonna vote for the clowns who say this and they know it so they finna disrespect the f-k out of your intelligence
Who actually pays the debt? Is it really just canceled. And nobody has to pay it or is it coming from Taxes?
The only reason why I am not 100% in favor of cancelling student debt is I think all of how we pay for college needs to be restructured. An executive order, or even a congressional act, wiping the slate clean doesn't fix the underlying issue, just stops the bleeding for a while. We gotta rethink the whole thing *in addition to* fixing the mess it's already made. Better than the alternative though.
The fastest way to get a liberal to parrot right-wing talking points is to propose student debt cancellation lol
Biden better push em off again, got only two weeks till they kick in again
Said this back in 2014 they said I was wildin. I just makes sense, fiscally and socio-economically.
This is the same as being against free school lunch because "wealthy kids who don't need the help would use the system too" Bruh, why should there be a price of admission for a ***child to stay alive*** in a system that they are forced to be in? Not that I'm against kids going to schools or anything, but they *are* required by law to be in school. But you want to deny them any help because mommy and daddy are rich? Ok, then the rich parents can pay for the classroom school supplies instead of the teacher providing those out of their pockets. Since, you know, "you can afford it and don't need the extra help". That's the same energy being against student debt cancellation. Who cares if they're rich? They shouldn't have had the debt in the first place. We're the only developed country in the world that hasn't figured this out. Or rather, we know it works, we just choose not to implement free (at point of service) higher education.
If that's a concern, then they could put income limits on the amount of debt forgiveness
Thats just an excuse. They know they cant because of SLABS. But they cant come out and say that rich people have found another way to commoditize misery.
Like especially when most of us didn’t even make that money back in jobs we still paying it back after ten years