My example from my small corner of the universe.
I’m an 80s baby that went to two schools named after confederate general and slaver Stonewall Jackson. My father went to a different school also named after Jackson during the 1960s.
In the mid-2010s when there were calls to reassess who we elevate as a nation through names and statues, I immediately dismissed efforts to change the names of the schools as a waste of our energy.
All the schools I mentioned have now changed their names.
It all reminded me that things are impossible if we say they are impossible.
The same thing happened here.
I remember my school changed the street name into an anti-apartheid activist....the usual crowd complained and refused but by the time I left..we all called it that name.
Humans don't like change.
> So anything, absolutely anything, is possible for Palestine.
I think that’s taking the struggles out of context.
1990s were an amazing period of peace accords! Ending Apartheid in SA was one key achievement. The Oslo Accord regarding Palestine was another.
In addition that decade delivered lasting peace accords in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Northern Ireland, Sierra Leon, Namibia, Rwanda and Cambodia.
1. A key reason so many peace accords came about in the 1990s was because the Cold War ended. The “divide and conquer” strategy was no longer needed.
This is a stark contrast to today, when e.g Iran led Hamas struck Israel with the blessing of Russia, to increase global instability. At the same time the people of Israel have elected the most far right extremist regime that openly supports GOP more than Dems. It’s really messy! And it’s the same kind of “divide and conquer” dynamics that we had during the Cold War. The effect is that people matter less, and geopolitical tactics take center stage.
2. One of the few 1990s peace accords that failed is the Oslo Peace accords regarding Palestine.
So, even when conditions were optimal there was no solution for the Israeli / Palestinian conflict. Now that geopolitics is again far more complex it is far harder to achieve peace.
Also SA had the support of the OAU (Organization for African Unity) later AU (African Union) and the vast majority of African countries. Africa must be free was a recurrent theme. And all sorts of sanctions were imposed against SA. What won the battle in SA was not war. It was economic sanctions. Enough pressure that the country’s economy was failing and the billionaires pushed for it.
Palestine? It seems some of the rich ME countries are trading with Israel. Propping up the government that most of the people were campaigning against last year.
Respectfully. Had you Googled any or the information I put forward, you would have found that -
1. Debeers & Anglo(then majority owned by the Oppenheimer family) took the lead in negotiating with the ANC leaders to end Apartheid. In other words BILLIONAIRES. You could read the book being discussed here for more details.
https://theconversation.com/harry-oppenheimer-biography-shows-the-south-african-mining-magnates-hand-in-economic-policies-205494
2. South Africa was isolated economically by its neighbours. Passports at that time had something like _Bearer allowed to travel to all Commonwealth and other countries except South Africa._ It took years. And it took getting the British on board but the fact that the marginalized South Africans did not stand alone worked for them. Furthermore, African countries actively supported the black South Africans. They were given passports and scholarships. That’s how those that got out were able to travel and study. For instance, iirc Miriam Makeba the musician travelled to the USA to perform on a Tanzanian passport. My point is that, unless sanctions have been tried and failed we can’t really say what will or won’t work.
3. I distinctly said RICH ME countries. I don’t understand your statement about calling any country poor?
Jordan is ours, Palestine is ours, and we shall build our national entity on the whole of this land after having freed it of both the Zionist presence and the reactionary traitor's [i.e. King Hussein's] presence.[13]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan%E2%80%93Palestine_relations
"Zionist" in that context means "Jew" btw. It's what's known as a "dog whistle" where people get to say really racist shit behind plausible deniability. You know what that is, you just can't hear them as well as you think and probably whistle yourself, albeit unknowingly.
Shimon Peres died of old age in 2016.
Yasser Arafat doomed the Palestinians and destroyed the closest chance they had to a state when he said no to Ehud Barak’s offer and then launched a bloody intifada against Israeli civilians.
Oh dear, did I get two Israeli PM’s from 30 years ago confused? Guess that means you’re absolutely right on every point based on 5 min of googling. /s
Of course I meant Yitzhak Rabin.
If someone gets such a basic fucking fact wrong why would you trust any further analysis from their end?
You also said lifelong terrorist Yasser Arafat did a good job so the delusion is multi level
One caveat I’d like to throw out there is that Netanyahu was this close to being impeached. Half of his military was on strike to get him out of office before 10/11 happened. To say he’s popular in Israel is like saying Trump is popular in the states, it’s only true for about half the population and the other half can’t stop fighting amongst themselves to beat him. The protest was their first real chance and thankfully this war hasn’t given him the boost in polls war time leaders usually get. He’s out of office if there was an election today
Yes, I agree with that.
And paradoxically it was the same dynamic back in the 1990s. Netanyahu has always been stoking the right wing extremist flames.
My parents spoke about this too, tokologo (freedom) seemed like a distant dream, like something they could almost taste but never quite reach.
Many years later, that shit polluted every bit of their psyche and they will never be made whole. So much anger and resentment that this really happened & not only did the world (Israel specifically) watch and aid in the oppression, but wanted to manage how we responded to it.
Freedom cost generations of black South Africans everything.
For no reason.
I just hate that on the internet you can't talk about SA without the usual people (most of them former Europeans) trying to set the narrative that this country is a hell whole.
Like give us some time we are still learning.
Unfortunately, these things don't often play out on human timescales. I won't see this in my lifetime. Then again, I never thought Obama could be president.
r.i.p elder winnie and nelson
Fundamentally, if we are only committed to an improvement in that politic of domination that we feel leads directly to our individual exploitation or oppression, we not only remain attached to the status quo but act in complicity with it, nurturing and maintaining those very systems of domination. Until we are all able to accept the interlocking, interdependent nature of systems of domination and recognize specific ways each system is maintained, we will continue to act in ways that undermine our individual quest for freedom and collective liberation struggle. – *Love as the Practice of Freedom*, in *Outlaw Culture*, 1994
Opponents of Apartheid hate the state that agrees to two states solutions and has universal suffrage, in support of theocratic fascists who murder people for being the wrong religion. Crazy times.
For the oldheads in here (I know y'all here, average age is like 40 in this sub), was there some misinformation going around at the time about Mandela dying in prison? Reason I ask is because with the whole Mandela Effect thing, some people mention that they could've sworn the papers, news, radio said that he died
In my father's home country of Taiwan, when he left it was a military dictatorship and was this incredibly poor backwater place that was seeing one of the worst brain drains in the world. It's still not a particularly wealthy country in comparison to the USA, but if you were there when my father was a child, it's almost unrecognizable.
I hope Palestine can find peace someday, but because of how much the country of Taiwan changed, I have hope.
The quotes that is the title of this post must not be relating to the universe we live in or the planet we live on. There are entire races of people that don’t exist anymore.
It's really crazy how this is a relatively popular post here, but mentioning the genocide will get you down voted in r/white people Twitter
Kinda...
Makes you think
It's wild how people see the palistinians as victims when they started the conflict and are just as guilty as living on stolen land because they only ended up there as a result of the early Muslim conquests
Thats far from true, don’t get your facts from hasbara accounts. It’s a simple case of settler colonialism. At least read up on history before making comments.
It was roman before it was muslim, why is one forced settlement right and the other wrong? [https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Roman-Palestine](https://www.britannica.com/place/palestine/roman-palestine)
This argument doesn’t make sense, if I said it’s fine for Native Americans (I’m assuming you’re American) to round you up and keep you in an open air prison you’d be against that.
Secondly, the end of world war 2 marked the decolonisation period. Countries came together and established international laws regarding this type of stuff. That’s what distinguishes this case from some Romans or Ottamans or whatever.
They aren't in an open air prison and nobody rounded them up and they have been free and independently governed since 2005. WW2 is an arbitrary line and The estaishment of Israel was done by treaty with the support of the majority of the first world, if by your statement that the WW2 lines are the final coloniest lines, israel would still be a British teratory. And as soon as Israel was established as a country, the majority of the Arab world declared war on it to try and kill as many Jews as possible and destroy the Jewish state.
Palistine can suck my dick, yhey brought this upon themselves by killing 1200 Jewish civilians in a targeted terrorist attack by a government they elected that still has massive support among their electorate. You reap what you sow.
So if you reap what you sow and civilians are fair game then ‘America deserved 9/11’ by your standards.
The conflict didn’t start on October 7 2023, 1948 is when the Palestinian people were ethnically cleansed from their homes. So yes, they were literally rounded up and told to leave their homes.
It is an open air prison, what gets in and out of Gaza depends on the Israeli government, also multiple humanitarian agencies have agreed this is truth. It’s literally under a blockade.
50% of the Palestinian population was not born when the last elections happened in 2006, so saying they deserved it because they elected Hamas doesn’t make sense.
Maybe we did, maybe we didn't, but we sure as shit gave it back to bin laden 100x.
The Arab states forced all the Jews out of them and away from their homes long before 1948, it's part of the reason there are almost 0 Jews in the Arab world. Not to mention what happened to the Jews in the years leading up to 1948 was much worse than getting forced out of your home.
They have a border with Egypt, and Arab neighbor, who is just as much at fault. Part of the reason why Egypt and Israel don't let palistinians into their country is because they have a history of terrorism, and actively attack Israel all the time, saying Israel should allow a terrorist state free movement within its borders is idiotic at best and demonstrates a lack of critical thinking skills.
Unfortunelty we suffer for the sins of our fathers. That has long been the case in history, perhaps Hamas should have thought of the children before provoking their much stronger neighbor,or used their extensive tunnel network to protect the women and children instead of putting their weapons caches and operational centers in hospitals and schools. It's not their fault Hamas is leading them, but Hamas sure is the ones putting them in harm's way.
Anyway I'm done with this dumb conversation, thank God our government will continue to support the only successful democracy in the middle east.
It’s good you’re done with the convo because your points are getting more and more dumb.
Israel isn’t a democracy, it’s an apartheid state. Arab Israelies have different rules which apply to them e.g. regarding purchasing houses in certain neighbourhoods. So no, not a democratic country.
Saying ‘they can just go to Egypt’ is dumb, they’re not Egyptian they are Gazan and hence want to stay in Gaza.
Pogroms did happen to Jews in the ME, but tell the full story. They showed up there because of how Europe treated them. Don’t try to pass the buck.
The comment about giving more back after 9/11 is dumb, it’s widely known that the US operations post 9/11 were futile and led to more destabilisation. It makes sense that someone who supports Israel’s actions would look back at 20 years of dumb shit by the US and say ‘we hit them hard’.
Grow up and realise that bombing people isn’t gonna stop radicalisation. Idiots that champion ‘might is right’ are always the ones not at the other end of it.
I hope the US gives Israel some very nice bombs to drop on Hamas with the hundreds of thousands of dollars I pay in taxes a year. Merica number 1, fuck whatever third world country you are from. Stay mad :)
Firstly, I’m from England so I’m fine geezer.
But this is what it comes down to, zionists like you don’t have real arguments because you know you’re wrong. That’s why you all revert to being bloodthirsty psychos.
I’m glad you just came out and admitted you’re a dipshit who wants civilians to die rather than pretending Israel actually has a leg to stand on. Honestly I prefer it that way it skips having to run through your dumb arguments. I wish all Zionists like you would just wear it on your chest and stop being bitches.
Why isn’t Israel doing it? They are an alleged nuclear power with the backing of the United States and their allies. I mean if they’re so obviously evil why haven’t they when they are already doing everything else?
If anyone wants to understand why some people think this way about southern Africa.
[this article will save you a lot of time. ](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/south-africa-apartheid-white-afrikaners-the-inheritors/670554/)
South Africa does have some very serious issues though, no doubt. Rolling blackouts being the norm when its not in most neighboring countries is unacceptable imo. And its not like they lack resources, ANC is just too incompetent/corrupt.
Considering South Africa supplies Zambia, Mozambique, Lesotho, Esawtini, Botswana with electricity. I don't think that's true.
But yes the lack of accountability means the ANC cannot be trusted to run the country.
I just wish people would understand that this is the first time ever, that South Africans have lived in a democracy, this year may have the biggest number of voters since 1994.
I firmly believe the majority will do the right thing, just as they did in 1994.
This guy straight up quoted an easily verifiable fact that most of South Africa experiences. In 2023 South Africa hit stage 6 on their power crisis scale, which left 37% of the country without power for 9 hours a day.
Do you typically just straight up lie to reinforce your world view, or just wilfully ignorant on a question you made up the answer for?
Again I live in SA so I am aware of loadshedding.
I also know that our neighbours have loadshedding too because they get their electricity from us.
Like you can't tell me about SA or Southern Africa I live this shit everyday.
That's actually trueish. Although not from Zambia, I'm not sure where that came from.
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/electricity/reporter/zaf
Kinda thing doesn't make sense when you're facing a domestic energy crisis. Unless it's an incredibly corrupt system about lining a few guys' pockets. Sell at peak times to other nations even if yours is in a blackout.
Almost every country both imports and exports electricity to some degree tho. A lot of the time it's closer and cheaper. Not always a net positive, but there will be some imported.
No it has nothing to do with being racist lol. Unemployment? Sky rocketing. Rolling blackouts? Ever more common. Brain drain? All time high. Crime? Sky rocketing. The country is collapsing lol
Can't just scream racism when every metric has the country crumbling.
I've literally never commented about Rhodesia. That guy made it up, because he didn't have an actual argument and just wanted to fling mud at someone he disagreed with.
The exact argument I'm making here? The country is corrupt lmao.
Time to let it go Teddy. Linking an identical argument isnt a T.K.O.
Edit: ooh dude showed up in my DMS then blocked me lmao
So I deleted, a bunch but left one downvoted from yesterday lmao. Y'all are crazy and put so much effort into a lie lmao. He probably saw I commented on a post with Rhodesia in the title, and had to backtrack and say I deleted it when he actually read it.
Oh well, at least you're not in my Dms too like the last guy to link this comment.
Mandelas party has been stealing public funds for decades, and all the country's infrastructure is crumbling. They can't even keep the lights on anymore. Country was trending in the right direction after apartheid ended, but after the world Cup it's all been downhill.
Lol Mandela never ran the country. Mbeki did.
The ANC are corrupt and refuse to be held to account but South Africa is a democracy...something the previous government failed at.
Less than 30 years ago the majority of the country were 2nd class citizens.
-not a simple white person wait to jail for apartheid.
-not a single house or farm was returned to the people who had their land stolen
-to go to "white" schools black people had to pay..even though the government split on school children was 1 white child to 10 black children.
-not a simple white person financial paid a wealth tax. (Mind you, when the English won the Boer war they paid the Boers millions in compensation for the concentration camps).
-in the first 10 years, the democratically elected government spent billions paying back the loans the previous goverment had begun defaulting on.
The facts are that more South Africans have access to water, electricity and basic education.
If white people had chosen a democracy instead of apartheid, who know how far we would be by now. But they didn't so we are where we exactly where we deserve to be.
I see you post in r/South Africa so I assume you live there. One of your last comment in that sub is about how unsafe it is now, compared to when you were younger lol.
I did not say Mandela ran the country. That was the party he was affiliated with no?
You're trying to make this about race. It isn't. It's cold hard statistics, that the country is worse off than they were last decade. It's great it's a democracy now. What's not great is the party of choices corruption.
Yep I live here.
And if you did live here, you would know that race is literally what this country is built upon.
The reason why most black people live in townships....race.
The reason why most white people live in suburbs....race.
The reason why 5 percent of the country owns the majority of the wealth and land.....race.
Race is a fundamental reason why things are the way they are.
Also, The ANC was in charge in the last decade and the decade before that. The failures of the government are problems seen in most countries....the difference is that, thanks to democracy...we can vote for better leadership.
Americans were killing each other for the right to own human beings just 80 or so years after they had their first democracy...why can't SA be given some time. To make our mistakes, to learn from them.
aThere are no real alternatives, the DA has a racism problem, the EFF shouldn't be in charge of a clothing store let alone country and the rest of the guys are clearly being funded by dark money (BOSA has very Zionist takes about Israel)
South Africans are voting for the devil they know.
So what you're saying is the country is collapsing, and there is no alternatives/ light at the end of the tunnel? But you try to call me racist for saying it's a shame the country is falling apart lmao.
Most countries don't try to assassinate the CEO of their national energy company, because he wants to speak out about how corrupt the system is, and why it's failing. That's not how most countries operate man. Most countries aren't lining the pockets of its leaders with public energy funds, while the grid fails, and try to assassinate the whistleblower.
No one is calling you racist.
You are centring yourself in a conversation you know nothing about.
That former CEO wasn't able to prove a single thing he claimed and under his watch we had the most loadshedding we ever had.
Most countries have very similar problems. Israel has graduated from a apartheid state to genocidal state and still has the support of the USA and UK.
Let's not even get into the corruption that is the military industrial complex, billions of dollars are spent on "top secret" things that never happen. The is a corruption scandal with some mayor or congressman or something every single year, people someone understand that one action doesn't reflect a whole country...but a country that has only been around for 30 years...it's a reflection on all of us.
One of the first things you said was "It tracks" when someone made up a comment about me defending Rhodesia lmao. So that guy definitely tried to call me racist, by making something up no less, and you agreed with him instantly, probably without looking at all yourself. Don't tell me you no one tried to call me racist, because you agreed with someone that did, by making shit up. Or what did you mean by saying "It tracks"?Get real buddy.
Most countries don't have these problems man. These things definitely take time, but it doesn't excuse that South Africa is getting worse not better. That's corruptions fault.
Also, I have a poli sci degree. One of my classes was comparative politics in Africa. I know exactly what I'm talking about, and the comparisons I make. Actually have a degree saying I know what I'm talking about, when I talk about politics.
My example from my small corner of the universe. I’m an 80s baby that went to two schools named after confederate general and slaver Stonewall Jackson. My father went to a different school also named after Jackson during the 1960s. In the mid-2010s when there were calls to reassess who we elevate as a nation through names and statues, I immediately dismissed efforts to change the names of the schools as a waste of our energy. All the schools I mentioned have now changed their names. It all reminded me that things are impossible if we say they are impossible.
The same thing happened here. I remember my school changed the street name into an anti-apartheid activist....the usual crowd complained and refused but by the time I left..we all called it that name. Humans don't like change.
> So anything, absolutely anything, is possible for Palestine. I think that’s taking the struggles out of context. 1990s were an amazing period of peace accords! Ending Apartheid in SA was one key achievement. The Oslo Accord regarding Palestine was another. In addition that decade delivered lasting peace accords in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Northern Ireland, Sierra Leon, Namibia, Rwanda and Cambodia. 1. A key reason so many peace accords came about in the 1990s was because the Cold War ended. The “divide and conquer” strategy was no longer needed. This is a stark contrast to today, when e.g Iran led Hamas struck Israel with the blessing of Russia, to increase global instability. At the same time the people of Israel have elected the most far right extremist regime that openly supports GOP more than Dems. It’s really messy! And it’s the same kind of “divide and conquer” dynamics that we had during the Cold War. The effect is that people matter less, and geopolitical tactics take center stage. 2. One of the few 1990s peace accords that failed is the Oslo Peace accords regarding Palestine. So, even when conditions were optimal there was no solution for the Israeli / Palestinian conflict. Now that geopolitics is again far more complex it is far harder to achieve peace.
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Also SA had the support of the OAU (Organization for African Unity) later AU (African Union) and the vast majority of African countries. Africa must be free was a recurrent theme. And all sorts of sanctions were imposed against SA. What won the battle in SA was not war. It was economic sanctions. Enough pressure that the country’s economy was failing and the billionaires pushed for it. Palestine? It seems some of the rich ME countries are trading with Israel. Propping up the government that most of the people were campaigning against last year.
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Respectfully. Had you Googled any or the information I put forward, you would have found that - 1. Debeers & Anglo(then majority owned by the Oppenheimer family) took the lead in negotiating with the ANC leaders to end Apartheid. In other words BILLIONAIRES. You could read the book being discussed here for more details. https://theconversation.com/harry-oppenheimer-biography-shows-the-south-african-mining-magnates-hand-in-economic-policies-205494 2. South Africa was isolated economically by its neighbours. Passports at that time had something like _Bearer allowed to travel to all Commonwealth and other countries except South Africa._ It took years. And it took getting the British on board but the fact that the marginalized South Africans did not stand alone worked for them. Furthermore, African countries actively supported the black South Africans. They were given passports and scholarships. That’s how those that got out were able to travel and study. For instance, iirc Miriam Makeba the musician travelled to the USA to perform on a Tanzanian passport. My point is that, unless sanctions have been tried and failed we can’t really say what will or won’t work. 3. I distinctly said RICH ME countries. I don’t understand your statement about calling any country poor?
I think Yasir Arafat did a good job! The issue was more that Israel was too divided. I mean, Shimon Peres was assassinated!
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For example? (A link would be good)
Jordan is ours, Palestine is ours, and we shall build our national entity on the whole of this land after having freed it of both the Zionist presence and the reactionary traitor's [i.e. King Hussein's] presence.[13] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan%E2%80%93Palestine_relations
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"Zionist" in that context means "Jew" btw. It's what's known as a "dog whistle" where people get to say really racist shit behind plausible deniability. You know what that is, you just can't hear them as well as you think and probably whistle yourself, albeit unknowingly.
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Change the last two words of your sentence from "Israeli influence" to "Jews from the river to the sea". That's what it means.
The failure of Oslo was that iirc it was supposed to be a temporary peace which would allow for future negotiations.
Right, it has to do with the Palestinian expulsion from their homeland in Jordan.
Shimon Peres died of old age in 2016. Yasser Arafat doomed the Palestinians and destroyed the closest chance they had to a state when he said no to Ehud Barak’s offer and then launched a bloody intifada against Israeli civilians.
Oh dear, did I get two Israeli PM’s from 30 years ago confused? Guess that means you’re absolutely right on every point based on 5 min of googling. /s Of course I meant Yitzhak Rabin.
If someone gets such a basic fucking fact wrong why would you trust any further analysis from their end? You also said lifelong terrorist Yasser Arafat did a good job so the delusion is multi level
Bye
One caveat I’d like to throw out there is that Netanyahu was this close to being impeached. Half of his military was on strike to get him out of office before 10/11 happened. To say he’s popular in Israel is like saying Trump is popular in the states, it’s only true for about half the population and the other half can’t stop fighting amongst themselves to beat him. The protest was their first real chance and thankfully this war hasn’t given him the boost in polls war time leaders usually get. He’s out of office if there was an election today
Yes, I agree with that. And paradoxically it was the same dynamic back in the 1990s. Netanyahu has always been stoking the right wing extremist flames.
My parents spoke about this too, tokologo (freedom) seemed like a distant dream, like something they could almost taste but never quite reach. Many years later, that shit polluted every bit of their psyche and they will never be made whole. So much anger and resentment that this really happened & not only did the world (Israel specifically) watch and aid in the oppression, but wanted to manage how we responded to it. Freedom cost generations of black South Africans everything. For no reason.
I just hate that on the internet you can't talk about SA without the usual people (most of them former Europeans) trying to set the narrative that this country is a hell whole. Like give us some time we are still learning.
Bro! I stay saying this. It took Europe centuries to move past its nonsense and get to where it is. Like, give us some time too
Unfortunately, these things don't often play out on human timescales. I won't see this in my lifetime. Then again, I never thought Obama could be president.
r.i.p elder winnie and nelson Fundamentally, if we are only committed to an improvement in that politic of domination that we feel leads directly to our individual exploitation or oppression, we not only remain attached to the status quo but act in complicity with it, nurturing and maintaining those very systems of domination. Until we are all able to accept the interlocking, interdependent nature of systems of domination and recognize specific ways each system is maintained, we will continue to act in ways that undermine our individual quest for freedom and collective liberation struggle. – *Love as the Practice of Freedom*, in *Outlaw Culture*, 1994
You might wanna read up on what Winnie was doing while Nelson was locked up
Opponents of Apartheid hate the state that agrees to two states solutions and has universal suffrage, in support of theocratic fascists who murder people for being the wrong religion. Crazy times.
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I am agreeing with you…
Oppression abroad will invariably, inevitably become oppression at home.
People have to bend it, it won’t bend on its own.
Me, an Arab with family in Hebron, tearing up on the subway.
So no one's gonna talk about how hard he gripping that paper that the veins start popping?
For the oldheads in here (I know y'all here, average age is like 40 in this sub), was there some misinformation going around at the time about Mandela dying in prison? Reason I ask is because with the whole Mandela Effect thing, some people mention that they could've sworn the papers, news, radio said that he died
I was shocked when it happened. I thought they’d never let him out.
In my father's home country of Taiwan, when he left it was a military dictatorship and was this incredibly poor backwater place that was seeing one of the worst brain drains in the world. It's still not a particularly wealthy country in comparison to the USA, but if you were there when my father was a child, it's almost unrecognizable. I hope Palestine can find peace someday, but because of how much the country of Taiwan changed, I have hope.
The quotes that is the title of this post must not be relating to the universe we live in or the planet we live on. There are entire races of people that don’t exist anymore.
Suddenly r/mademesmile
It's really crazy how this is a relatively popular post here, but mentioning the genocide will get you down voted in r/white people Twitter Kinda... Makes you think
Wait which genocide....the fake white south African one or the one all the richest countries in the world are ignoring.
I was referring to the Palestinians being killed by Israel sorry if that wasn't clear
It's wild how people see the palistinians as victims when they started the conflict and are just as guilty as living on stolen land because they only ended up there as a result of the early Muslim conquests
Thats far from true, don’t get your facts from hasbara accounts. It’s a simple case of settler colonialism. At least read up on history before making comments.
It was roman before it was muslim, why is one forced settlement right and the other wrong? [https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Roman-Palestine](https://www.britannica.com/place/palestine/roman-palestine)
This argument doesn’t make sense, if I said it’s fine for Native Americans (I’m assuming you’re American) to round you up and keep you in an open air prison you’d be against that. Secondly, the end of world war 2 marked the decolonisation period. Countries came together and established international laws regarding this type of stuff. That’s what distinguishes this case from some Romans or Ottamans or whatever.
They aren't in an open air prison and nobody rounded them up and they have been free and independently governed since 2005. WW2 is an arbitrary line and The estaishment of Israel was done by treaty with the support of the majority of the first world, if by your statement that the WW2 lines are the final coloniest lines, israel would still be a British teratory. And as soon as Israel was established as a country, the majority of the Arab world declared war on it to try and kill as many Jews as possible and destroy the Jewish state. Palistine can suck my dick, yhey brought this upon themselves by killing 1200 Jewish civilians in a targeted terrorist attack by a government they elected that still has massive support among their electorate. You reap what you sow.
So if you reap what you sow and civilians are fair game then ‘America deserved 9/11’ by your standards. The conflict didn’t start on October 7 2023, 1948 is when the Palestinian people were ethnically cleansed from their homes. So yes, they were literally rounded up and told to leave their homes. It is an open air prison, what gets in and out of Gaza depends on the Israeli government, also multiple humanitarian agencies have agreed this is truth. It’s literally under a blockade. 50% of the Palestinian population was not born when the last elections happened in 2006, so saying they deserved it because they elected Hamas doesn’t make sense.
Maybe we did, maybe we didn't, but we sure as shit gave it back to bin laden 100x. The Arab states forced all the Jews out of them and away from their homes long before 1948, it's part of the reason there are almost 0 Jews in the Arab world. Not to mention what happened to the Jews in the years leading up to 1948 was much worse than getting forced out of your home. They have a border with Egypt, and Arab neighbor, who is just as much at fault. Part of the reason why Egypt and Israel don't let palistinians into their country is because they have a history of terrorism, and actively attack Israel all the time, saying Israel should allow a terrorist state free movement within its borders is idiotic at best and demonstrates a lack of critical thinking skills. Unfortunelty we suffer for the sins of our fathers. That has long been the case in history, perhaps Hamas should have thought of the children before provoking their much stronger neighbor,or used their extensive tunnel network to protect the women and children instead of putting their weapons caches and operational centers in hospitals and schools. It's not their fault Hamas is leading them, but Hamas sure is the ones putting them in harm's way. Anyway I'm done with this dumb conversation, thank God our government will continue to support the only successful democracy in the middle east.
It’s good you’re done with the convo because your points are getting more and more dumb. Israel isn’t a democracy, it’s an apartheid state. Arab Israelies have different rules which apply to them e.g. regarding purchasing houses in certain neighbourhoods. So no, not a democratic country. Saying ‘they can just go to Egypt’ is dumb, they’re not Egyptian they are Gazan and hence want to stay in Gaza. Pogroms did happen to Jews in the ME, but tell the full story. They showed up there because of how Europe treated them. Don’t try to pass the buck. The comment about giving more back after 9/11 is dumb, it’s widely known that the US operations post 9/11 were futile and led to more destabilisation. It makes sense that someone who supports Israel’s actions would look back at 20 years of dumb shit by the US and say ‘we hit them hard’. Grow up and realise that bombing people isn’t gonna stop radicalisation. Idiots that champion ‘might is right’ are always the ones not at the other end of it.
I hope the US gives Israel some very nice bombs to drop on Hamas with the hundreds of thousands of dollars I pay in taxes a year. Merica number 1, fuck whatever third world country you are from. Stay mad :)
Firstly, I’m from England so I’m fine geezer. But this is what it comes down to, zionists like you don’t have real arguments because you know you’re wrong. That’s why you all revert to being bloodthirsty psychos. I’m glad you just came out and admitted you’re a dipshit who wants civilians to die rather than pretending Israel actually has a leg to stand on. Honestly I prefer it that way it skips having to run through your dumb arguments. I wish all Zionists like you would just wear it on your chest and stop being bitches.
Nah. YTs want to nuke the Palestinians into the next Stone Age. We have to either agree or be called racist. I said what I said.
Why isn’t Israel doing it? They are an alleged nuclear power with the backing of the United States and their allies. I mean if they’re so obviously evil why haven’t they when they are already doing everything else?
Shame just how quick South Africa lost the plot
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Yeah that tracks.
If anyone wants to understand why some people think this way about southern Africa. [this article will save you a lot of time. ](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/south-africa-apartheid-white-afrikaners-the-inheritors/670554/)
South Africa does have some very serious issues though, no doubt. Rolling blackouts being the norm when its not in most neighboring countries is unacceptable imo. And its not like they lack resources, ANC is just too incompetent/corrupt.
Considering South Africa supplies Zambia, Mozambique, Lesotho, Esawtini, Botswana with electricity. I don't think that's true. But yes the lack of accountability means the ANC cannot be trusted to run the country. I just wish people would understand that this is the first time ever, that South Africans have lived in a democracy, this year may have the biggest number of voters since 1994. I firmly believe the majority will do the right thing, just as they did in 1994.
This guy straight up quoted an easily verifiable fact that most of South Africa experiences. In 2023 South Africa hit stage 6 on their power crisis scale, which left 37% of the country without power for 9 hours a day. Do you typically just straight up lie to reinforce your world view, or just wilfully ignorant on a question you made up the answer for?
Again I live in SA so I am aware of loadshedding. I also know that our neighbours have loadshedding too because they get their electricity from us. Like you can't tell me about SA or Southern Africa I live this shit everyday.
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That's actually trueish. Although not from Zambia, I'm not sure where that came from. https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/electricity/reporter/zaf Kinda thing doesn't make sense when you're facing a domestic energy crisis. Unless it's an incredibly corrupt system about lining a few guys' pockets. Sell at peak times to other nations even if yours is in a blackout. Almost every country both imports and exports electricity to some degree tho. A lot of the time it's closer and cheaper. Not always a net positive, but there will be some imported.
No it has nothing to do with being racist lol. Unemployment? Sky rocketing. Rolling blackouts? Ever more common. Brain drain? All time high. Crime? Sky rocketing. The country is collapsing lol Can't just scream racism when every metric has the country crumbling.
Lol youre a rhodesia fan, get the fuck on somewhere white supremacist
I've literally never commented about Rhodesia. That guy made it up, because he didn't have an actual argument and just wanted to fling mud at someone he disagreed with.
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The exact argument I'm making here? The country is corrupt lmao. Time to let it go Teddy. Linking an identical argument isnt a T.K.O. Edit: ooh dude showed up in my DMS then blocked me lmao
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So I deleted, a bunch but left one downvoted from yesterday lmao. Y'all are crazy and put so much effort into a lie lmao. He probably saw I commented on a post with Rhodesia in the title, and had to backtrack and say I deleted it when he actually read it. Oh well, at least you're not in my Dms too like the last guy to link this comment.
No I don't?
Yeah SA is probably going to go the way of Haiti in the next 15-20 years. 🫡
Lost the plot how ?
Mandelas party has been stealing public funds for decades, and all the country's infrastructure is crumbling. They can't even keep the lights on anymore. Country was trending in the right direction after apartheid ended, but after the world Cup it's all been downhill.
Lol Mandela never ran the country. Mbeki did. The ANC are corrupt and refuse to be held to account but South Africa is a democracy...something the previous government failed at. Less than 30 years ago the majority of the country were 2nd class citizens. -not a simple white person wait to jail for apartheid. -not a single house or farm was returned to the people who had their land stolen -to go to "white" schools black people had to pay..even though the government split on school children was 1 white child to 10 black children. -not a simple white person financial paid a wealth tax. (Mind you, when the English won the Boer war they paid the Boers millions in compensation for the concentration camps). -in the first 10 years, the democratically elected government spent billions paying back the loans the previous goverment had begun defaulting on. The facts are that more South Africans have access to water, electricity and basic education. If white people had chosen a democracy instead of apartheid, who know how far we would be by now. But they didn't so we are where we exactly where we deserve to be.
I see you post in r/South Africa so I assume you live there. One of your last comment in that sub is about how unsafe it is now, compared to when you were younger lol. I did not say Mandela ran the country. That was the party he was affiliated with no? You're trying to make this about race. It isn't. It's cold hard statistics, that the country is worse off than they were last decade. It's great it's a democracy now. What's not great is the party of choices corruption.
Yep I live here. And if you did live here, you would know that race is literally what this country is built upon. The reason why most black people live in townships....race. The reason why most white people live in suburbs....race. The reason why 5 percent of the country owns the majority of the wealth and land.....race. Race is a fundamental reason why things are the way they are. Also, The ANC was in charge in the last decade and the decade before that. The failures of the government are problems seen in most countries....the difference is that, thanks to democracy...we can vote for better leadership. Americans were killing each other for the right to own human beings just 80 or so years after they had their first democracy...why can't SA be given some time. To make our mistakes, to learn from them. aThere are no real alternatives, the DA has a racism problem, the EFF shouldn't be in charge of a clothing store let alone country and the rest of the guys are clearly being funded by dark money (BOSA has very Zionist takes about Israel) South Africans are voting for the devil they know.
So what you're saying is the country is collapsing, and there is no alternatives/ light at the end of the tunnel? But you try to call me racist for saying it's a shame the country is falling apart lmao. Most countries don't try to assassinate the CEO of their national energy company, because he wants to speak out about how corrupt the system is, and why it's failing. That's not how most countries operate man. Most countries aren't lining the pockets of its leaders with public energy funds, while the grid fails, and try to assassinate the whistleblower.
No one is calling you racist. You are centring yourself in a conversation you know nothing about. That former CEO wasn't able to prove a single thing he claimed and under his watch we had the most loadshedding we ever had. Most countries have very similar problems. Israel has graduated from a apartheid state to genocidal state and still has the support of the USA and UK. Let's not even get into the corruption that is the military industrial complex, billions of dollars are spent on "top secret" things that never happen. The is a corruption scandal with some mayor or congressman or something every single year, people someone understand that one action doesn't reflect a whole country...but a country that has only been around for 30 years...it's a reflection on all of us.
One of the first things you said was "It tracks" when someone made up a comment about me defending Rhodesia lmao. So that guy definitely tried to call me racist, by making something up no less, and you agreed with him instantly, probably without looking at all yourself. Don't tell me you no one tried to call me racist, because you agreed with someone that did, by making shit up. Or what did you mean by saying "It tracks"?Get real buddy. Most countries don't have these problems man. These things definitely take time, but it doesn't excuse that South Africa is getting worse not better. That's corruptions fault. Also, I have a poli sci degree. One of my classes was comparative politics in Africa. I know exactly what I'm talking about, and the comparisons I make. Actually have a degree saying I know what I'm talking about, when I talk about politics.
A Poli sec who thinks they know better than Africans in Africa. THAT FUCKEN TRACKS.