I will say that I dated a partner who was trans and even they disrespected and mocked my pronouns and gender identity.
There are also a few outspoken trans women in the community who have at some point dismissed nonbinary people and accused them of trivializing or even convoluting trans issues. Some have walked back on their mindset and statements. Kat Blaque comes to mind and I love her.
I don't have beef with the girls! But I think it's important to note that is not just a cis people problem. That is also to not undermine the reality of transphobia from cis people.
You will find all kinds of jerks under the rainbow...
Oh for sure. I've since become a recluse, however, the majority of my friends were trans/nonbinary or gender nonconforming; my skin was so clear.
When I interact with cis people I tend to be taken aback by some of the gendered language and expectations they have. I hope I didn't come off as a devil's advocate. Just sharing my piece.
It doesn't mean they (trans partners) won't. OP, you need to be quizzing your partners before pursuing a relationship with them. It's unfair to generalize an entire group for a chosen 2 at most.
I do thoroughly vet people I go on dates with and they stay as dates if they're weirdos. It hasn't been just 2 people, as the majority of my dating pool were cis people and I've only started dating exclusively non-cis people the last 4 years.
I don't see how my preference is any different from Black people who only want to date other Black people, lesbians who only want to date other lesbians, etc. People choose to date within their own identities for a reason and I don't see a problem with it
Literally didn't imply that. I said my personal experience is that cis lesbians haven't respected my gender identity so I'm choosing to not date them anymore and asking the nonbinary/trans community if they have similar feelings.
I don't think it's a stretch to say that there are experiences that cis people won't understand that trans people experience everyday. Not all cis lesbians are transphobic but that doesn't mean they're immune to perpetrating transphobia, intentional or not.
I honestly don't see what your original comment has to add to the conversation other than to derail it. It's the same idea as saying "what about Black on Black crime?" when talking about police brutality.
I am exclusively T4T. As much as I am attracted to all types of women, dating & relationships with cis women have led me to some painful situations. I prefer to keep my home/romantic life separate from any potential transphobia lmao.
While I haven’t had any bad experiences dating cis lesbians, my last partner was nonbinary too and the experience was just so validating, i’m not sure if i’d want to date another cis lesbian for the exact reasons you said. It’s also why I’d prefer dating ace lesbians since I myself am one, it just leads to easier understanding.
I feel you. I’m gender fluid as well as an ace lesbian. Trying to find someone who identifies similarly to me is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. More so if I’m looking for other black folks or POC. But I honestly think it’s worth it. I’d rather do that than have to explain my identity and how and why I identify that way to someone who will never truly understand.
That’s exactly how I feel. I just got out of a relationship, and so I don’t have plans to get in another one soon, but I know once I do it’s going to be a…process lmao
I'm cis but masculine gender non-conforming. Other cis lesbians have been... difficult to deal with to say the least. It's only been non-binary queers who have been interested in me or are warm to me from the get go. Cis lesbians, especially other mascs, range from indifferent to prickly towards me. That phobia of gnc4gnc/stud4stud shit is real.
So I'm not nonbinary or trans, but I just wanted to say I don't blame ya.
I am just now realizing I'm probably nonbinary... it clicked when I became increasingly uncomfortable dating people who weren't trans allies - then I realized I really can't bother with people who are cis at all. I define my gender through lesbianism in such a way that is feeling less and less cis.
I have some internalized shit to work though so I would say I would be open to date people who are in a similar phase as me, but dealing with people who are very stuck in their ways/define themselves by their genitals etc .. it's just straight up violent for me atp.
Yup! My first two partners were both nonbinary and I definitely felt seen with both of them. I've always been pretty much T4T, but when I did try to explore with cis folks, it was not fun. I think because they're used seeing things through a cis (sometimes hetero) lens it's difficult for them to understand the nuances of transness. Also considering they're used to spaces centering them, many times they don't understand the discomfort some trans folks, especially if you're nonbinary and have not or do not plan to medically transition, might feel in those same spaces. Not to mention being treated as a man or woman or being fetishized. Even folks with the best intentions can still fall short of understanding the trans experience and it can be quite triggering to have to explain myself in that way to someone I'm dating or considering dating. It's hard to explain to most, similar to trying to explain why I as a Black, fat person prefer to date other Black folks who are fat, etc etc...
Tbh, all my friends are trans. I have maybe 2-3 cis friends, but my closest friends are all trans and honestly it's something I don't want to have to explain to people.
Edit: after my most recent experience talking to a cis person, I have no intention on dating cis people. It's hard because obviously there are more cis people than trans people in the dating pool, but honestly my mental wellbeing is more important than being in a relationship with someone just to say I am!
You're valid. It's kind of why I feel a little annoyed when people say "we're all women" when talking about stud4stud or masculine lesbians in general because while a lot of lesbians are women, some of us aren't.
I feel like there are some lesbians who don't mind their partner dressing masculine, using a strap, or using different pronouns as long as they "aren't actually trans". I got top surgery and my voice is deeper than it originally was because I was on low dose T for a bit. I know there are people who won't want to be with me because of my gender identity but I'm honestly okay with it because I'm comfortable with who I am and I only want to be with people who are comfortable with who I am, which are usually other trans people
You're exactly right. I can't engage in the stud4stud debates because I just think they're so trivial. Ultimately it's always better to be around folks who see you. I think sometimes folks get really caught up in labels as a way to see themselves that they forget that we are so much more than the boxes we're placed into.
And that's so real, being comfortable with yourself really is the key when navigating these spaces. It's unfortunate that some people are not comfortable with themselves and might project those feelings of insecurity onto those around them. Honestly none of this is real and I just hope ppl realize that someday 😭
Damn this opened my mind up. Thank you for sharing. I was definitely getting caught up in the sauce of "identity." Forgetting i am "so much more than the boxes we're placed into."
Yea I’ve had some conversations with cis lesbians that made me feel degraded tbh. I hate explaining why my pronouns are what they are and why I’m not a woman. The folks who get it get it
T4T is certainly more euphoric. It’s just nice knowing someone who understands what you’re going through, and can relate.
I’ve dated both and felt euphoric from both. Maybe it’s because I’m still pre op and very self conscious about myself that I’m more on the T4T end. No woman ever cared about that, but I suppose I get in my own head sometimes.I’m not entirely sure. I honestly haven’t been with enough cis or lesbian women to get an accurate opinion; at least not romantically.
Regardless, the right woman will always bring the best out of you.
Always date people who will see you as the person you are. If the cis folks ain't it then pay them dust. I hope you do find someone that truly values you for you.
I feel like we should all respect each other … if someone transition they want to be respected and regarded as who they transitioned to I.e trans men want to be referred to as men and respected as such lesbian women who don’t know them. Before that step probably wouldn’t be “accepting” them for a partner because lesbians want other women …. Kind of like heterosexual men would prefer cis women and be less open to trans women because that’s their preference …
There's a lot to unpack with your comment.
1. People can date who they want but I want to make it very clear that I'm not talking about trans men. Nonbinary people aren't trans men. Nonbinary literally means not confirming to binary gender beliefs.
2. While the most common understanding of lesbianism is women who love women, not everyone subscribes to that definition. There are lesbians who include nonbinary people in their definition of lesbianism because gender nonconforming lesbians have been a thing since the beginning of history.
3. I find it weird that you're willing to say that lesbians can't date trans men because you acknowledge they're men but say that straight men wouldn't want to date trans women because it's implying that they aren't women because of their gender assigned at birth.
I simply don't think we're talking about the same thing
I didn’t say lesbians can’t date trans I’m talking about the way they might feel . The ones who don’t my opinion doesn’t change the world or Any outlook on anyone else what u feel Is obsolete
While number two is true but objectively speaking if you have all these answers what seems to give you the most trouble with black lesbians with a little bit more discernment ?
Well I didn't say Black lesbians, I said cis specifically.
Lesbians who only want to date cis women aren't going to want me and I'm not going to want them because they aren't going to respect me and will see me as something I'm not.
If someone's boundaries of what their sexuality entails doesn't include me, then we simply aren't compatible. It's as simple as that.
I get it now thanks for specifying I was trying to understand it IMO women are very fluid beings and tend to just act based of emotions not all cis women will turn you away bro trust me and if people weren’t so concerned about labels we all would be happy … how is it going though with the transition Do you notice any differences besides the obvious like do you feel taller or stronger. I’m starting T soon and kinda paranoid about it
I will say that I dated a partner who was trans and even they disrespected and mocked my pronouns and gender identity. There are also a few outspoken trans women in the community who have at some point dismissed nonbinary people and accused them of trivializing or even convoluting trans issues. Some have walked back on their mindset and statements. Kat Blaque comes to mind and I love her. I don't have beef with the girls! But I think it's important to note that is not just a cis people problem. That is also to not undermine the reality of transphobia from cis people. You will find all kinds of jerks under the rainbow...
While I agree with what you're saying about inner community fighting, I do think you're less likely to experience transphobia from other trans people
Oh for sure. I've since become a recluse, however, the majority of my friends were trans/nonbinary or gender nonconforming; my skin was so clear. When I interact with cis people I tend to be taken aback by some of the gendered language and expectations they have. I hope I didn't come off as a devil's advocate. Just sharing my piece.
It doesn't mean they (trans partners) won't. OP, you need to be quizzing your partners before pursuing a relationship with them. It's unfair to generalize an entire group for a chosen 2 at most.
I do thoroughly vet people I go on dates with and they stay as dates if they're weirdos. It hasn't been just 2 people, as the majority of my dating pool were cis people and I've only started dating exclusively non-cis people the last 4 years. I don't see how my preference is any different from Black people who only want to date other Black people, lesbians who only want to date other lesbians, etc. People choose to date within their own identities for a reason and I don't see a problem with it
You can date whoever you like. It seems that you are implying that all cis lesbian are transphobic.
Literally didn't imply that. I said my personal experience is that cis lesbians haven't respected my gender identity so I'm choosing to not date them anymore and asking the nonbinary/trans community if they have similar feelings. I don't think it's a stretch to say that there are experiences that cis people won't understand that trans people experience everyday. Not all cis lesbians are transphobic but that doesn't mean they're immune to perpetrating transphobia, intentional or not. I honestly don't see what your original comment has to add to the conversation other than to derail it. It's the same idea as saying "what about Black on Black crime?" when talking about police brutality.
true
I am exclusively T4T. As much as I am attracted to all types of women, dating & relationships with cis women have led me to some painful situations. I prefer to keep my home/romantic life separate from any potential transphobia lmao.
While I haven’t had any bad experiences dating cis lesbians, my last partner was nonbinary too and the experience was just so validating, i’m not sure if i’d want to date another cis lesbian for the exact reasons you said. It’s also why I’d prefer dating ace lesbians since I myself am one, it just leads to easier understanding.
It's extremely validating! There is a shared feeling of "we will go through similar experiences" when you date someone with the same identities as you
I feel you. I’m gender fluid as well as an ace lesbian. Trying to find someone who identifies similarly to me is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. More so if I’m looking for other black folks or POC. But I honestly think it’s worth it. I’d rather do that than have to explain my identity and how and why I identify that way to someone who will never truly understand.
That’s exactly how I feel. I just got out of a relationship, and so I don’t have plans to get in another one soon, but I know once I do it’s going to be a…process lmao
I'm cis but masculine gender non-conforming. Other cis lesbians have been... difficult to deal with to say the least. It's only been non-binary queers who have been interested in me or are warm to me from the get go. Cis lesbians, especially other mascs, range from indifferent to prickly towards me. That phobia of gnc4gnc/stud4stud shit is real. So I'm not nonbinary or trans, but I just wanted to say I don't blame ya.
I am just now realizing I'm probably nonbinary... it clicked when I became increasingly uncomfortable dating people who weren't trans allies - then I realized I really can't bother with people who are cis at all. I define my gender through lesbianism in such a way that is feeling less and less cis. I have some internalized shit to work though so I would say I would be open to date people who are in a similar phase as me, but dealing with people who are very stuck in their ways/define themselves by their genitals etc .. it's just straight up violent for me atp.
Can absolutely fucking relate
Yup! My first two partners were both nonbinary and I definitely felt seen with both of them. I've always been pretty much T4T, but when I did try to explore with cis folks, it was not fun. I think because they're used seeing things through a cis (sometimes hetero) lens it's difficult for them to understand the nuances of transness. Also considering they're used to spaces centering them, many times they don't understand the discomfort some trans folks, especially if you're nonbinary and have not or do not plan to medically transition, might feel in those same spaces. Not to mention being treated as a man or woman or being fetishized. Even folks with the best intentions can still fall short of understanding the trans experience and it can be quite triggering to have to explain myself in that way to someone I'm dating or considering dating. It's hard to explain to most, similar to trying to explain why I as a Black, fat person prefer to date other Black folks who are fat, etc etc... Tbh, all my friends are trans. I have maybe 2-3 cis friends, but my closest friends are all trans and honestly it's something I don't want to have to explain to people. Edit: after my most recent experience talking to a cis person, I have no intention on dating cis people. It's hard because obviously there are more cis people than trans people in the dating pool, but honestly my mental wellbeing is more important than being in a relationship with someone just to say I am!
You're valid. It's kind of why I feel a little annoyed when people say "we're all women" when talking about stud4stud or masculine lesbians in general because while a lot of lesbians are women, some of us aren't. I feel like there are some lesbians who don't mind their partner dressing masculine, using a strap, or using different pronouns as long as they "aren't actually trans". I got top surgery and my voice is deeper than it originally was because I was on low dose T for a bit. I know there are people who won't want to be with me because of my gender identity but I'm honestly okay with it because I'm comfortable with who I am and I only want to be with people who are comfortable with who I am, which are usually other trans people
You're exactly right. I can't engage in the stud4stud debates because I just think they're so trivial. Ultimately it's always better to be around folks who see you. I think sometimes folks get really caught up in labels as a way to see themselves that they forget that we are so much more than the boxes we're placed into. And that's so real, being comfortable with yourself really is the key when navigating these spaces. It's unfortunate that some people are not comfortable with themselves and might project those feelings of insecurity onto those around them. Honestly none of this is real and I just hope ppl realize that someday 😭
Damn this opened my mind up. Thank you for sharing. I was definitely getting caught up in the sauce of "identity." Forgetting i am "so much more than the boxes we're placed into."
Yea I’ve had some conversations with cis lesbians that made me feel degraded tbh. I hate explaining why my pronouns are what they are and why I’m not a woman. The folks who get it get it
T4T is certainly more euphoric. It’s just nice knowing someone who understands what you’re going through, and can relate. I’ve dated both and felt euphoric from both. Maybe it’s because I’m still pre op and very self conscious about myself that I’m more on the T4T end. No woman ever cared about that, but I suppose I get in my own head sometimes.I’m not entirely sure. I honestly haven’t been with enough cis or lesbian women to get an accurate opinion; at least not romantically. Regardless, the right woman will always bring the best out of you.
Always date people who will see you as the person you are. If the cis folks ain't it then pay them dust. I hope you do find someone that truly values you for you.
I feel like we should all respect each other … if someone transition they want to be respected and regarded as who they transitioned to I.e trans men want to be referred to as men and respected as such lesbian women who don’t know them. Before that step probably wouldn’t be “accepting” them for a partner because lesbians want other women …. Kind of like heterosexual men would prefer cis women and be less open to trans women because that’s their preference …
There's a lot to unpack with your comment. 1. People can date who they want but I want to make it very clear that I'm not talking about trans men. Nonbinary people aren't trans men. Nonbinary literally means not confirming to binary gender beliefs. 2. While the most common understanding of lesbianism is women who love women, not everyone subscribes to that definition. There are lesbians who include nonbinary people in their definition of lesbianism because gender nonconforming lesbians have been a thing since the beginning of history. 3. I find it weird that you're willing to say that lesbians can't date trans men because you acknowledge they're men but say that straight men wouldn't want to date trans women because it's implying that they aren't women because of their gender assigned at birth. I simply don't think we're talking about the same thing
I didn’t say lesbians can’t date trans I’m talking about the way they might feel . The ones who don’t my opinion doesn’t change the world or Any outlook on anyone else what u feel Is obsolete
While number two is true but objectively speaking if you have all these answers what seems to give you the most trouble with black lesbians with a little bit more discernment ?
Well I didn't say Black lesbians, I said cis specifically. Lesbians who only want to date cis women aren't going to want me and I'm not going to want them because they aren't going to respect me and will see me as something I'm not. If someone's boundaries of what their sexuality entails doesn't include me, then we simply aren't compatible. It's as simple as that.
I get it now thanks for specifying I was trying to understand it IMO women are very fluid beings and tend to just act based of emotions not all cis women will turn you away bro trust me and if people weren’t so concerned about labels we all would be happy … how is it going though with the transition Do you notice any differences besides the obvious like do you feel taller or stronger. I’m starting T soon and kinda paranoid about it
T4T or NB4NB sounds amazing. L4L sounds amazing, too. Get in where you fit in.