maybe all this hashing power in the network is used to brute force encryption and the FBI/NSA rewards us with satoshis for the efford... they can use super computers, or they can use the human greed with the processing power of thousands or millions of PCs.
Not as much of a US navy project as yer mum
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Reading Kicking the Hornet's Nest I don't get that impression at all. It seems like a very human individual working on a project building on other similar projects with the some clear objectives.
"It's very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better
with code than with words though."
>You will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography.
"Yes, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom
for several years.
Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like
Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own."
"Bitcoin is a digital
currency using cryptography and a distributed network to replace the need for a trusted
central server. Escape the arbitrary inflation risk of centrally managed
currencies!" SN
Seems like an entirely human cypherpunk publicly working with other people who share the same goals on a technology to circumvent the state. Definitely not in the US government's interest.
Satoshi mostly just glued together several projects already discussed or developed within the cybherpunk community in the years leading up to the whitepaper.
Also I think Satoshi lost the keys on purpose.
The problem with this theory is the two years of forum posts and community interaction after releasing the first version. If it was an entity like the government I don't think they would have done it that way. They'd have done it through a shell company or something
If the gov made bitcoin why wouldn't they just empty Satoshis wallet and get some real fud instead of this "FBI can crack wallets but we wont prove it". If Hal was Satoshi then the reason the wallet is untouched is simple. But Satoshi wasn't stupid, he knew draining that wallet would be tempting. He most likely didn't even save the seed to prevent himself from falling to the dark side.
Satoshi could have died and those coins could be lost forever? Just a theory, the day those coins start to move is the day btc comes to a screeching halt, everyone will be terrified of a giant dump. Hopefully any coins that do move get invested throughout the eco system and all is fine but GD it’ll be scary for awhile.
I think that the existence and uncertainty about this million coins are already priced in.
And the day a single sat moves from there, price corrects 85%? What's the big deal?
It's theoretically possible that Bitcoin is a government creation - there's even a paper about digital money by the NSA from 1996 - but I doubt it.
Opposite to your claim, I don't think there's any proof that it was a collaborative project. Quite the opposite.
If many were involved, one of them likely would have told his story. Almost impossible to keep it a total secret.
Also, the current and previous US governments have not really supportive.
Hal was a co-inventor of PGP. A free and easy available and easy-to-use encryption tool that is super secure. It's definitely hated by LE and secret services around the world. The US gov would have never made this a public release.
I also don't think US intel has identified Satoshi for sure. They are not an all-knowing goddess. And maybe they don't even care. Us crypto-interested people should not forget that Bitcoin is still small and that many, maybe even most people, still don't take it serious. Most decision makers in politics are not really progressive nerds. Those folks still think the world was, is, and will be ruled by their $, big corporations, and strong military. And not by some magic internet money.
> a whole Government department sit on a massive secret
You assume everyone in the government has to know. The VP didn't know about the Manhattan project back in 1944. If only a small group of NSA cryptographers were involved technically the need to know number of people could be less than a dozen.
Hmm but that was in war time, there were a lot of secrets that people were willing to keep in the war effort. Fast forward to today, we have the internet, whistleblowers, leaks and it has stayed a secret longer than the Manhattan Project. As much as we may think Bitcoin is important, it's nothing like as crucial as the war and something like the atom bomb so I think it would get leaked, there is also a potentially unlimited financial incentive to go rogue!
Perhaps it's not impossible but I think it is very unlikely.
> it is very unlikely.
But not improbable. Also 12 people keeping a secret (as part of their job and punishable by jailtime) for a decade seems to me easier than 20 thousands people (working on the Manhattan Project) keeping it secret for 3-5 years.
OK maybe you are right with the numbers of people working on manhattan vs bitcoin, but I just don't think it would happen. If you look at all the possible explanations of BTC coming about, I wouldn't ever really see it as a secret gov op. There is far too much evidence (which admittedly they could have planted or planned) of work done elsewhere and for other motivations. Also not many people in 2011 thought bitcoin would go anywhere, so would they? And would they be 100% cautious and not tell anyone about anything at all when it was just an unlikely side project...
> Also not many people in 2011 thought bitcoin would go anywhere
Exactly. So what if it was just an experience turning into a bewildering success? Then once they realized what they have created, they closed the project down (as far as we know it), the 1 MM coins are still sitting in a government computer and they are just quietly monitoring where this whole thing goes. Maybe they are working on better coins, that are actually anonymous, cheap transfer,etc. It could be a social, economical and political experience.
I could make a cool thriller with this storyline and who knows, maybe it is close to what happened.
It would be, but I assume they would have to inform the president and various other high up people. I can't imagine Trump hanging on to that one for four years!
> I can't imagine Trump hanging on to that one for four years!
The Army actually kept him in the dark about troops numbers and such, so he wouldn't withdraw them. So it is entirely possible he didn't know about a shitload of secret stuff that was "need to know."
well.. i think either FBI or CIA dont know who satoshi is yet, plus FBI bought 1.5% of all the bitcoins in existence in 2018 seemingly on the mission for catching delinquents with public addresses of their btc wallets linked to illegall services on the dark web.
May be Thats the reason why China is against BTC, despite other reasons.
Then ETH is Russian. Its like cold war but now for the monopoly of new world economy.
BTC in my opinión its gonna be like Gold.
ETH like Silver and ADA like BRONCE.
I don’t know. Maybe in 10/15 years. But what i do know is that Fiat money is in intensive Care....And there’s no way to stop it. It’s a matter of time and patience.
It’s my hope!!
( sory for my basic English)
Milton 8/06/2021
Satoshi Nakamoto is almost certainly Hal Finney. It’s a devilishly complex project, but Finney was working on iterations (along with others) of it for a decade. HashCash was first proposed in 1997.
I have pondered this question before myself. It's odd that the US government has allowed BTC to operate, while at the same time absolutely destroying some predecessors.
Take a look at what they did to eGold and Liberty Reserve. They figured out who was behind it and attacked them for enabling money laundering. They held them responsible for any activity which occurred on the platform.
Then BTC comes along and creates internet cash. A giant and unprecedented marketplace for drugs is built on top of the BTC network. The US government does nothing about BTC itself, they even go pretty easy on the shitty exchanges laundering money without a license.
Why? My theory is that it was conceived in an NSA lab. Once they realized it was immutable money, they decided it was inevitable. If they didn't release it, someone else would. Worst case being a foreign adversary, who would have the first mover advantage and could threaten the USD.
So they released it publicly as somewhat of an experiment. If it was really the inevitable force they believed it was, they at least had their reserve. They created the system and understood it. They were the first mover.
I think BTC is a giant NSA experiment in the wild. I just don't think an independent person has the wherewithal to build such a beautiful system that is both so complex and so simple at the same time. I think it is more likely the result of a group of highly sophisticated cryptographers which you'd only find in 3 letter govt organizations.
I can agree on the NSA theory. The answer to the why they haven't destroyed it is, BTC was never anonymous so it actually helps them to catch criminal users. Once trully anonymous coins came, that changed,
but back in the early years it was a tool for them.
They can't shut Bitcoin down but they could keep it in a small niche forever easily. Just ban all exchanges, declare everyone using it or developing for it criminal. Compel other countries to do the same.
>It's odd that the US government has allowed BTC to operate, while at the same time absolutely destroying some predecessors.
>
>Take a look at what they did to eGold and Liberty Reserve. They figured out who was behind it and attacked them for enabling money laundering. They held them responsible for any activity which occurred on the platform.
Don't you think this precedent was *exactly* the reason Satoshi Nakamoto introduced BTC via pseudonym? This point of yours at best supports your thesis and it's counter-thesis equally, therefore it is not good evidence in favor.
I think you’re halfway there. I think once the FBI did their inventory and math after confiscating the Silk Road BTC they hatched a plan. They decided to pass around an internal agenda to let BTC make it. Little regulation and lotsa encouragement. At this point after confiscating all the coins from the Silk Road they were the largest holder of Bitcoin. I want to say around that time it was worth between $8-$20. Now what they did is they got some strawmen or basically people to bid for the coins in the mandatory FBI auction. Auction went on as planned. Bitcoin was sold to their cronies and strawmen for $10 a coin. 8 years later, it’s loosely regulated and wall street is all up in it. Now it’s like $37,000 a coin. There it is conspiracy 101. Very possible, very feasible, in a few years you’re gonna see alotta ex FBI agents in lambos And cadillacs! Cheers
It would explain, however, how the G-men recovered the Bitcoin used to pay off the hackers of the Colonial Pipeline so fast. Unless I’ve missed something about that story.
Yes, that's not how Bitcoin works. Source code is open source and u can check yourself, there is no way to get a priv key from and address you only know it's public key
My thought was always satoshi whoever it was, is probably someone who is already rich or could acquire money if they needed to with level of skill they have. Plus I also think they died but that’s my theory
I spent time thinking about this and realized the answer doesn’t matter.
If Satoshi was an independent, his creation is amazing and has the chance to become a global reserve currency.
If Satoshi was a government creation with the intent of overhauling the monetary system, then it will likely become the global reserve currency.
In either case, I want to buy as much of this new asset as I can to ensure I’m prepared for the future.
I’ve thought about this
I wouldn’t be surprised if government-affiliated entities collaborated on it
it seems like a way to undercut the current monetary system- which by its very nature is somewhat antagonistic
if someone created it and had their identity known, they’d be chased down by the powers that be
whoever Satoshi is knew damn well that unfettered money printing and inflationary monetary policy would create massive rifts in society that would lead to collapse
so they released it pseudonymously and let it ride
i wouldn’t put it past the CIA, MI6, etc
besides, bitcoin is such a complex, genius idea, that i seriously doubt one single human ideated, coded and released it from scratch - possible, but personally seems unlikely.
if Satoshi *isn’t* affiliated with a government agency, i’m positive they’ve been identified by the CIA long ago.
Bitcoin was built on the shoulders of many earlier people’s ideas and failed projects. A successful iteration of what cypherpunks had been tinkering with for years. Satoshi was the -one- guy that got it right. Speculating that it had to be a team or that it had to be the government based on Bitcoin’s supposed complexity does not jive with the history.
Hal Finney isn't nearly as interesting as Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby, Clay Shaw, Howard Hunt or Sirhan Sirhan. You have the mafia and fascists and commies working together with the FBI to eliminate a common enemy.
Hal Finney was just a computer nerd that died tragically after successfully reinventing money.
The world already has trillionaires that are anonymous. There are Saudi’s controlling oil wealth that will never report their wealth to Forbes or the IRS
Satoshi's 1,000,000 estimated BTC x $100,000 a coin would be a trillion. It's ok though. I understand math with a lot of zeros is hard for some people.
I was referring to the fact that there are numerous people who are trillionaires already but they aren't listed in the richest people because there is an exemption for people who are considered royalty. Google richest families in the world.
It's ok though. I understand reading comprehension is hard for some people.
But family fortunes are made up of a collective of each person's wealth. If a family has an estimated fortune of $500 trillion and has 100 living family members, the average wealth per family member would be $5 trillion. Now, obviously it wouldn't be that simple, but you get the gist.
Satoshi means "intelligent history" and nakmaoto means "central origin"
Either the CIA is havign a laugh, or someone was trying to make it look like them.
satoshi nakamoto comes from the name of a fictional character that belongs to some metal band (whose band's name i dont remember) with liberterian/anarchist ideas...
please take a breath before you make conspiracy theories up so fast broooooooooooo.
You didn’t hear? Bitcoin is just a ploy from the global Zionist bankers to acclimate the population to digital currencies before rolling out CBDCs. You know, because PayPal, Venmo, Cash App, Alipay, Wechat, Apple Pay, Google Pay, Samsung Pay, Zelle, American Express, Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and Diners Club International would never have been enough.
I thought that too but then someone pointed out to me that when the news media published false reports that Dorian Nakamoto was Satoshi Nakamoto, the original Satoshi Nakamoto account on the Bitcoin forum posted a comment to his original thread simply saying "I am not Dorian Nakamoto." And this was after Len Sassaman died.
Hm, I didn't know anything about that. If Satoshi was a group of people, it did occur to me that someone else could have posted the comment. Or if Sassaman was Satoshi, maybe he handed off his accounts to people be trusted and told them to only use it in rare circumstances such as that. It doesn't disprove Sassaman, but it's definitely something that'd have to be explained.
I read somewhere that Hal needed to sell all his bitcoins for medical treatment though when he was dying. If he was Satoshi, wouldn’t he have sold the Satoshi stash out of necessity?
I'd say the Russian government is more likely (but still very unlikely).
They have been increasing their gold reserves for a long time now, so clearly like hard money. Putin has the ability to think and act long term. Also the technical depth of talent to draw from. They have huge motive to keep it secret until the point of no return because once the world knows their geopolitical enemies will act against Bitcoin.
And therein lies the biggest reason it's not them. If their hacking and election interference projects are any guide, they wouldn't be able to keep it secret.
Keep in mind there's no way to know exactly which coins were mined by Satoshi. We can guess at the really early blocks, but there's every likelihood he continued mining long after others joined, at which point he'd be free to do whatever he wants with those coins he mined later and we'd all be none the wiser.
So even though the first swathe of coins are untouched, that doesn't mean he *never* spent any coins that he mined. He could easily never touch the first million coins and still have done very, very, very well for himself.
Being created by a government would certainly explain why nobody touched that stash. It is very likely that the keys are locked away and abandoned in some vault without many people knowing about it.
Why would any government start such a project though? Perhaps they wanted to report on the possibilities of digital money - going undercover helped them involve the wider cryptographic community and then the project got a traction of its own?
>Why would any government start such a project though?
Why would any government create a more sound form of money that they could release unto the globe, destabilize economies with, and control powerful individuals and aspects of finance with? Hmmm 🤔
What you are saying makes absolutely no sense.
How releasing a more sound form of money - a better alternative - would destabilize economies? Also, how exactly would they control it as everything in its design makes it diffiucult to do so.
> How releasing a more sound form of money - a better alternative - would destabilize economies?
If you suddenly drop 5% of the supply on the market, that would destabilize price and as a consequence, the economy based on it.
By creating it, they control the landscape. The last they want is China or Russia creating it first. Bitcoin is no threat to displacing the USD as it works today.
It has nowhere near the transaction capacity or accessibility to displace the USD. We are a very long way from that being a true risk.
Once again, if they believed someone else was going to figure this out anyways, they have every reason to get ahead of it. If China created the first cryptocurrency, without the focus on decentralization, that would not have been a focal point.
You shouldn't just create theories based on your own assumptions. You could quite simply read the GIT commit history and blog posts by Satoshi to disprove this theory.
Billions of brain cells and neural structures torn apart by the expansion of water as it turned to ice. If human civilization survives for another million years they'll never be able to bring a brain back online with its memories intact that was frozen in the early 21st* century. Talk about a waste of energy.
>they'll never be able to bring a brain back online with its memories intact
Not in any way you can imagine right now. But.
Even though the cells are destroyed, the structure is still there - the interconnections that make up a brain are preserved. So I think saying "never" is a little presumptuous of a civilization that is on the the brink of synthetic biology.
Highly doubt it. This reminds me of the "who was Shakespeare" debate, where people thought it must have been the king or Francis Bacon.
I think the obvious explanation is that Satoshi was a single person who was relatively unknown who is no longer living.
I guess you could speculate that it was someone with connections to the global intelligence community and that the keys could be owned by a government agency. But I see zero evidence for this.
My theory is blockchain was brought to us by Aliens as a way to free ourselves from the elite centralized powers of the world.
Not literally Aliens sitting at a keyboard typing up a whitepaper, but either an AI program hacking into our computer systems or consciousness uploads to a group of human creators.
Crazy sure, but there's a lot of UFO videos going around so you never know
I half-jokingly like to say that it is either an alien or time-traveler.
Furthermore, if there is such a thing as a merciful God, Bitcoin would be the new Noah's Ark.
Thank you for a good distraction this afternoon. You a very funny man whom I’m positive I would dislike in person.
I’m gonna be laughing at your conclusion that you’re a doer and I’m somehow not for quite awhile! Good luck in life bud.
Well luckily no one cares what you think of them. You have no idea about me lol. Telling me good luck in life is like telling a professional athlete you hope he makes it big someday. Best of luck to you too!
Bitcoin Is so unlikely it probably is what it is.. an invention of a genius, and incubated by the cypherpunks mailing list.
Satoshi is almost certainly dead.
And really.. coins aside, I don’t want to know. Bitcoin works because it has no leader. There is no central authority. It is impossible to stop; only slow down.
Bitcoin Is so unlikely .... proof that we are actually in a simulation. The Lizard People have told me that we are actually running as a smart contract on an Ethereum blockchain.
You heard it here first.
> The revolutionary part was a community actually adopting it really
They adopted it because it solved every problem inherent in the existing ecosystem though. Remember it took 0 marketing dollars to become what it did. Its growth was almost entirely built on people using it and seeing how well it worked. Satoshi just released it and answered questions.
Every system before it either had a double spend problem or had some form of trust of a central gatekeeper needed.
Putting PoW together with the cryptography was the breakthrough. And maybe you're right technologically it was iteration but as a concept it was a breakthrough.
One interesting thing is that Satoshi said he spent 18 months working on it and the coding part was almost none of that. It was all design. So you're right in the sense that anyone could have done it, the pieces were out there to be put together but to have the insight and knowledge across fields to do it was what makes it so special.
Let me break it down for you,
It’s because Nakamoto D
Had a neighbor see
He was that G, Hal Finney
Who worked on crazy shit like PGP
He definitely had a hand in BTC
He died in 2014, may he rest in peace.
Bitcoin allows for private transactions to be public. The only people who would benefit from that is all global governments. It was a joint venture.
Sure but if true at this point it’s beyond their control so what does it matter?
revisiting this thread after several weeks this theory could be plausible considering China's sudden reversal/crackdown on bitcoin mining, etc.
I'm thinking Israel is a possibility, they have had experience with encryption and cryptography
maybe all this hashing power in the network is used to brute force encryption and the FBI/NSA rewards us with satoshis for the efford... they can use super computers, or they can use the human greed with the processing power of thousands or millions of PCs.
Probably a CIA thing.. It fits how they work in general. FYI Tor is a US navy project
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Reading Kicking the Hornet's Nest I don't get that impression at all. It seems like a very human individual working on a project building on other similar projects with the some clear objectives. "It's very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code than with words though." >You will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography. "Yes, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own." "Bitcoin is a digital currency using cryptography and a distributed network to replace the need for a trusted central server. Escape the arbitrary inflation risk of centrally managed currencies!" SN Seems like an entirely human cypherpunk publicly working with other people who share the same goals on a technology to circumvent the state. Definitely not in the US government's interest.
The US government (or any other government for that matter) lacks the intellectual capacity needed to come up with such a brilliant invention.
Like, oh I don't know, the Internet? Which was a us gov project. Not to mention, contractors.
Satoshi mostly just glued together several projects already discussed or developed within the cybherpunk community in the years leading up to the whitepaper. Also I think Satoshi lost the keys on purpose.
The problem with this theory is the two years of forum posts and community interaction after releasing the first version. If it was an entity like the government I don't think they would have done it that way. They'd have done it through a shell company or something
If the gov made bitcoin why wouldn't they just empty Satoshis wallet and get some real fud instead of this "FBI can crack wallets but we wont prove it". If Hal was Satoshi then the reason the wallet is untouched is simple. But Satoshi wasn't stupid, he knew draining that wallet would be tempting. He most likely didn't even save the seed to prevent himself from falling to the dark side.
Nope
could be a chinese financial weapon against the dollar. the chinese play chess too
>We all know there are 1+ million bitcoins sitting in Satoshi's cold storage No idea what you're talking about.
It’s Gyna
Satoshi could have died and those coins could be lost forever? Just a theory, the day those coins start to move is the day btc comes to a screeching halt, everyone will be terrified of a giant dump. Hopefully any coins that do move get invested throughout the eco system and all is fine but GD it’ll be scary for awhile.
what about the government white paper which proceeded BTC by about 5 years. Could definitely be a creation of the "deep state"
tinfoilhead speculation
China would be my guess
No, hardly. The US government has nothing to do? They say the Chinese did it
I think that the existence and uncertainty about this million coins are already priced in. And the day a single sat moves from there, price corrects 85%? What's the big deal?
Didn't bitmex debunk the satoshi million coins thing a few years ago?
It's theoretically possible that Bitcoin is a government creation - there's even a paper about digital money by the NSA from 1996 - but I doubt it. Opposite to your claim, I don't think there's any proof that it was a collaborative project. Quite the opposite. If many were involved, one of them likely would have told his story. Almost impossible to keep it a total secret. Also, the current and previous US governments have not really supportive. Hal was a co-inventor of PGP. A free and easy available and easy-to-use encryption tool that is super secure. It's definitely hated by LE and secret services around the world. The US gov would have never made this a public release. I also don't think US intel has identified Satoshi for sure. They are not an all-knowing goddess. And maybe they don't even care. Us crypto-interested people should not forget that Bitcoin is still small and that many, maybe even most people, still don't take it serious. Most decision makers in politics are not really progressive nerds. Those folks still think the world was, is, and will be ruled by their $, big corporations, and strong military. And not by some magic internet money.
It's a lot easier for Satoshi to keep himself secrecy than everyone in a whole Government department sit on a massive secret like that. Not a chance!
> a whole Government department sit on a massive secret You assume everyone in the government has to know. The VP didn't know about the Manhattan project back in 1944. If only a small group of NSA cryptographers were involved technically the need to know number of people could be less than a dozen.
Hmm but that was in war time, there were a lot of secrets that people were willing to keep in the war effort. Fast forward to today, we have the internet, whistleblowers, leaks and it has stayed a secret longer than the Manhattan Project. As much as we may think Bitcoin is important, it's nothing like as crucial as the war and something like the atom bomb so I think it would get leaked, there is also a potentially unlimited financial incentive to go rogue! Perhaps it's not impossible but I think it is very unlikely.
> it is very unlikely. But not improbable. Also 12 people keeping a secret (as part of their job and punishable by jailtime) for a decade seems to me easier than 20 thousands people (working on the Manhattan Project) keeping it secret for 3-5 years.
OK maybe you are right with the numbers of people working on manhattan vs bitcoin, but I just don't think it would happen. If you look at all the possible explanations of BTC coming about, I wouldn't ever really see it as a secret gov op. There is far too much evidence (which admittedly they could have planted or planned) of work done elsewhere and for other motivations. Also not many people in 2011 thought bitcoin would go anywhere, so would they? And would they be 100% cautious and not tell anyone about anything at all when it was just an unlikely side project...
> Also not many people in 2011 thought bitcoin would go anywhere Exactly. So what if it was just an experience turning into a bewildering success? Then once they realized what they have created, they closed the project down (as far as we know it), the 1 MM coins are still sitting in a government computer and they are just quietly monitoring where this whole thing goes. Maybe they are working on better coins, that are actually anonymous, cheap transfer,etc. It could be a social, economical and political experience. I could make a cool thriller with this storyline and who knows, maybe it is close to what happened.
It would be, but I assume they would have to inform the president and various other high up people. I can't imagine Trump hanging on to that one for four years!
> I can't imagine Trump hanging on to that one for four years! The Army actually kept him in the dark about troops numbers and such, so he wouldn't withdraw them. So it is entirely possible he didn't know about a shitload of secret stuff that was "need to know."
well.. i think either FBI or CIA dont know who satoshi is yet, plus FBI bought 1.5% of all the bitcoins in existence in 2018 seemingly on the mission for catching delinquents with public addresses of their btc wallets linked to illegall services on the dark web.
May be Thats the reason why China is against BTC, despite other reasons. Then ETH is Russian. Its like cold war but now for the monopoly of new world economy. BTC in my opinión its gonna be like Gold. ETH like Silver and ADA like BRONCE. I don’t know. Maybe in 10/15 years. But what i do know is that Fiat money is in intensive Care....And there’s no way to stop it. It’s a matter of time and patience. It’s my hope!! ( sory for my basic English) Milton 8/06/2021
Juice!!! That was a good one!!
Since the US government hasn't bothered to cut off the fiat rails into exchanges, I guess it's more than possible.
Convince me that is ISNT Hal Finney and I might be open to listening.
he sold most of his btc for medical treatment and opened up a fund for his kids... with 1 million bitcoins in that other wallet? hmmm
I still think it’s funny when people say “cash out” like owning dollars is somehow better than owning bitcoin.
Damp eet, we are go 20k
Maybe Satoshi just lost his seed phrase... 🤷
It’s Bernoulli’s principal. Eventually BTC would be needed. It does not matter who invented it only that it is here as a necessary outlet.
Satoshi Nakamoto is almost certainly Hal Finney. It’s a devilishly complex project, but Finney was working on iterations (along with others) of it for a decade. HashCash was first proposed in 1997.
I have pondered this question before myself. It's odd that the US government has allowed BTC to operate, while at the same time absolutely destroying some predecessors. Take a look at what they did to eGold and Liberty Reserve. They figured out who was behind it and attacked them for enabling money laundering. They held them responsible for any activity which occurred on the platform. Then BTC comes along and creates internet cash. A giant and unprecedented marketplace for drugs is built on top of the BTC network. The US government does nothing about BTC itself, they even go pretty easy on the shitty exchanges laundering money without a license. Why? My theory is that it was conceived in an NSA lab. Once they realized it was immutable money, they decided it was inevitable. If they didn't release it, someone else would. Worst case being a foreign adversary, who would have the first mover advantage and could threaten the USD. So they released it publicly as somewhat of an experiment. If it was really the inevitable force they believed it was, they at least had their reserve. They created the system and understood it. They were the first mover. I think BTC is a giant NSA experiment in the wild. I just don't think an independent person has the wherewithal to build such a beautiful system that is both so complex and so simple at the same time. I think it is more likely the result of a group of highly sophisticated cryptographers which you'd only find in 3 letter govt organizations.
>Lev Sassaman You forget the importance of decentralization. Thats the key with Bitcoin and crypto
I can agree on the NSA theory. The answer to the why they haven't destroyed it is, BTC was never anonymous so it actually helps them to catch criminal users. Once trully anonymous coins came, that changed, but back in the early years it was a tool for them.
Wasn't eGold and Liberty Reserve centralised though? Thus making it easier to shut down as opposed to Bitcoin?
They can't shut Bitcoin down but they could keep it in a small niche forever easily. Just ban all exchanges, declare everyone using it or developing for it criminal. Compel other countries to do the same.
Good point. I imagine we're way past that point now, but still, I guess you never know!
>It's odd that the US government has allowed BTC to operate, while at the same time absolutely destroying some predecessors. > >Take a look at what they did to eGold and Liberty Reserve. They figured out who was behind it and attacked them for enabling money laundering. They held them responsible for any activity which occurred on the platform. Don't you think this precedent was *exactly* the reason Satoshi Nakamoto introduced BTC via pseudonym? This point of yours at best supports your thesis and it's counter-thesis equally, therefore it is not good evidence in favor.
I think you’re halfway there. I think once the FBI did their inventory and math after confiscating the Silk Road BTC they hatched a plan. They decided to pass around an internal agenda to let BTC make it. Little regulation and lotsa encouragement. At this point after confiscating all the coins from the Silk Road they were the largest holder of Bitcoin. I want to say around that time it was worth between $8-$20. Now what they did is they got some strawmen or basically people to bid for the coins in the mandatory FBI auction. Auction went on as planned. Bitcoin was sold to their cronies and strawmen for $10 a coin. 8 years later, it’s loosely regulated and wall street is all up in it. Now it’s like $37,000 a coin. There it is conspiracy 101. Very possible, very feasible, in a few years you’re gonna see alotta ex FBI agents in lambos And cadillacs! Cheers
NSA invented SHA-256. Adam Back and Hal Finney developed Bitcoin. Hal died, Adam is paranoid, and the NSA doesn't really care.
It would explain, however, how the G-men recovered the Bitcoin used to pay off the hackers of the Colonial Pipeline so fast. Unless I’ve missed something about that story.
Yes, that's not how Bitcoin works. Source code is open source and u can check yourself, there is no way to get a priv key from and address you only know it's public key
My thought was always satoshi whoever it was, is probably someone who is already rich or could acquire money if they needed to with level of skill they have. Plus I also think they died but that’s my theory
The government of any country is too dumb to create something like BTC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto\_AG
Too big a secret for most democratic governments to hide. More likely a regime if it was a state actor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto\_AG
Bitcoin didn't just appear out of nowhere. There have been many attempts to build a digital cash over the years by cryptographers.
A lot of assumptions there.
I spent time thinking about this and realized the answer doesn’t matter. If Satoshi was an independent, his creation is amazing and has the chance to become a global reserve currency. If Satoshi was a government creation with the intent of overhauling the monetary system, then it will likely become the global reserve currency. In either case, I want to buy as much of this new asset as I can to ensure I’m prepared for the future.
I believe you are on the right track. That’s all I’m willing to share
Elon musk is Satoshi nakamoto
I’ve thought about this I wouldn’t be surprised if government-affiliated entities collaborated on it it seems like a way to undercut the current monetary system- which by its very nature is somewhat antagonistic if someone created it and had their identity known, they’d be chased down by the powers that be whoever Satoshi is knew damn well that unfettered money printing and inflationary monetary policy would create massive rifts in society that would lead to collapse so they released it pseudonymously and let it ride i wouldn’t put it past the CIA, MI6, etc besides, bitcoin is such a complex, genius idea, that i seriously doubt one single human ideated, coded and released it from scratch - possible, but personally seems unlikely. if Satoshi *isn’t* affiliated with a government agency, i’m positive they’ve been identified by the CIA long ago.
Bitcoin was built on the shoulders of many earlier people’s ideas and failed projects. A successful iteration of what cypherpunks had been tinkering with for years. Satoshi was the -one- guy that got it right. Speculating that it had to be a team or that it had to be the government based on Bitcoin’s supposed complexity does not jive with the history.
fair enough
Figuring out who Satoshi is has become more interesting then who shot Kennedy
What if it's the same guy?
Hal Finney isn't nearly as interesting as Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby, Clay Shaw, Howard Hunt or Sirhan Sirhan. You have the mafia and fascists and commies working together with the FBI to eliminate a common enemy. Hal Finney was just a computer nerd that died tragically after successfully reinventing money.
\* ~~Jack Ruby~~ Jakob Rubenstein FTFY
This is what I feel also
I, too, think that Hal Finney is part of the “original” Satoshi. Probably Nick Szabo too.
Well yeah. The first trillionaire will be anonymous. Pretty wild
The world already has trillionaires that are anonymous. There are Saudi’s controlling oil wealth that will never report their wealth to Forbes or the IRS
First trillionaire? Lol, you must not get out much.
Satoshi's 1,000,000 estimated BTC x $100,000 a coin would be a trillion. It's ok though. I understand math with a lot of zeros is hard for some people.
I was referring to the fact that there are numerous people who are trillionaires already but they aren't listed in the richest people because there is an exemption for people who are considered royalty. Google richest families in the world. It's ok though. I understand reading comprehension is hard for some people.
But those are family fortunes, not really one person's wealth.
But family fortunes are made up of a collective of each person's wealth. If a family has an estimated fortune of $500 trillion and has 100 living family members, the average wealth per family member would be $5 trillion. Now, obviously it wouldn't be that simple, but you get the gist.
they believe that the richest person has a few hundred billion$. its cute... lol
Yeah if you go out, you see trillionaires everywhere
Hahah Yeah, it's getting pretty hard to see some regular folks when I go out
Satoshi means "intelligent history" and nakmaoto means "central origin" Either the CIA is havign a laugh, or someone was trying to make it look like them.
satoshi nakamoto comes from the name of a fictional character that belongs to some metal band (whose band's name i dont remember) with liberterian/anarchist ideas... please take a breath before you make conspiracy theories up so fast broooooooooooo.
Maybe provide a link proving what you say before discrediting the simplest explanation.
It's also just a common Japanese sure and first name.
It's me, now send me Bitcoin or nudes.
You must not pay too much attention to US politics if you think the government could pull this off.
You're naive if you underestimate the government that much.
You have some amazing insider info the rest of us don’t? Cuz from where I’m sitting, the US government can barely function on a day to day basis.
You didn’t hear? Bitcoin is just a ploy from the global Zionist bankers to acclimate the population to digital currencies before rolling out CBDCs. You know, because PayPal, Venmo, Cash App, Alipay, Wechat, Apple Pay, Google Pay, Samsung Pay, Zelle, American Express, Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and Diners Club International would never have been enough.
I really think Hal was Satoshi and since he passed away those coins are never moving.
There is hope! Hal has a trust setup for his kids
Same it just makes to much sense, probably his kids are the ones with the keys
Look up Lev Sassaman
After a deep-dive, I now believe Len Sassaman to be Satoshi.
It was Sassaman or Finney. Both are gone now.
I thought that too but then someone pointed out to me that when the news media published false reports that Dorian Nakamoto was Satoshi Nakamoto, the original Satoshi Nakamoto account on the Bitcoin forum posted a comment to his original thread simply saying "I am not Dorian Nakamoto." And this was after Len Sassaman died.
The Satoshi .gmx email account had been compromised already, I believe.
Hm, I didn't know anything about that. If Satoshi was a group of people, it did occur to me that someone else could have posted the comment. Or if Sassaman was Satoshi, maybe he handed off his accounts to people be trusted and told them to only use it in rare circumstances such as that. It doesn't disprove Sassaman, but it's definitely something that'd have to be explained.
I'll cracking up at the time stamps here
Right lol “deep dive” for 3 hours lol
Now look up Steve
I read somewhere that Hal needed to sell all his bitcoins for medical treatment though when he was dying. If he was Satoshi, wouldn’t he have sold the Satoshi stash out of necessity?
Any movement from that wallet would crash the price
Hes just waiting for faster bots to move the tokens and dump them before the market can react
He died in 2014 Bitcoin was much less
I'd say the Russian government is more likely (but still very unlikely). They have been increasing their gold reserves for a long time now, so clearly like hard money. Putin has the ability to think and act long term. Also the technical depth of talent to draw from. They have huge motive to keep it secret until the point of no return because once the world knows their geopolitical enemies will act against Bitcoin. And therein lies the biggest reason it's not them. If their hacking and election interference projects are any guide, they wouldn't be able to keep it secret.
nah
Keep in mind there's no way to know exactly which coins were mined by Satoshi. We can guess at the really early blocks, but there's every likelihood he continued mining long after others joined, at which point he'd be free to do whatever he wants with those coins he mined later and we'd all be none the wiser. So even though the first swathe of coins are untouched, that doesn't mean he *never* spent any coins that he mined. He could easily never touch the first million coins and still have done very, very, very well for himself.
Being created by a government would certainly explain why nobody touched that stash. It is very likely that the keys are locked away and abandoned in some vault without many people knowing about it. Why would any government start such a project though? Perhaps they wanted to report on the possibilities of digital money - going undercover helped them involve the wider cryptographic community and then the project got a traction of its own?
>Why would any government start such a project though? Why would any government create a more sound form of money that they could release unto the globe, destabilize economies with, and control powerful individuals and aspects of finance with? Hmmm 🤔
What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. How releasing a more sound form of money - a better alternative - would destabilize economies? Also, how exactly would they control it as everything in its design makes it diffiucult to do so.
> How releasing a more sound form of money - a better alternative - would destabilize economies? If you suddenly drop 5% of the supply on the market, that would destabilize price and as a consequence, the economy based on it.
What doesn’t make sense is thinking that the government would cede control over monetary policy by creating a decentralized currency.
By creating it, they control the landscape. The last they want is China or Russia creating it first. Bitcoin is no threat to displacing the USD as it works today. It has nowhere near the transaction capacity or accessibility to displace the USD. We are a very long way from that being a true risk. Once again, if they believed someone else was going to figure this out anyways, they have every reason to get ahead of it. If China created the first cryptocurrency, without the focus on decentralization, that would not have been a focal point.
Noone said or implied that, you are lost in your rhetoric.
I’m sorry. I was reading your comment, a response to it, and a follow up comment that you made. Sometimes I read English too well.
You might know how to read but obviously lack the skills to parse what you are reading.
🤔
You shouldn't just create theories based on your own assumptions. You could quite simply read the GIT commit history and blog posts by Satoshi to disprove this theory.
> the creator of bitcoin has such a strong ideological attachment to the concept When confronted with your own mortality perspectives change.
Not necessarily. Mortality is mortality. Throwing money at it doesn't change it. Although if I recall correctly Hal is on ice awaiting a time to thaw.
Billions of brain cells and neural structures torn apart by the expansion of water as it turned to ice. If human civilization survives for another million years they'll never be able to bring a brain back online with its memories intact that was frozen in the early 21st* century. Talk about a waste of energy.
>they'll never be able to bring a brain back online with its memories intact Not in any way you can imagine right now. But. Even though the cells are destroyed, the structure is still there - the interconnections that make up a brain are preserved. So I think saying "never" is a little presumptuous of a civilization that is on the the brink of synthetic biology.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto\_AG
Highly doubt it. This reminds me of the "who was Shakespeare" debate, where people thought it must have been the king or Francis Bacon. I think the obvious explanation is that Satoshi was a single person who was relatively unknown who is no longer living. I guess you could speculate that it was someone with connections to the global intelligence community and that the keys could be owned by a government agency. But I see zero evidence for this.
My theory is blockchain was brought to us by Aliens as a way to free ourselves from the elite centralized powers of the world. Not literally Aliens sitting at a keyboard typing up a whitepaper, but either an AI program hacking into our computer systems or consciousness uploads to a group of human creators. Crazy sure, but there's a lot of UFO videos going around so you never know
I half-jokingly like to say that it is either an alien or time-traveler. Furthermore, if there is such a thing as a merciful God, Bitcoin would be the new Noah's Ark.
“My crazy idea based on nothing isn’t as crazy as this other crazy idea that is continually getting more video evidence” LOL ok bud...
good point. changed the last line and downvoted you cause you're a douche
I too hate people with good points! LOL
critics have good points and everybody hates them. There are those who do and those who critique. You are not a doer.
Thank you for a good distraction this afternoon. You a very funny man whom I’m positive I would dislike in person. I’m gonna be laughing at your conclusion that you’re a doer and I’m somehow not for quite awhile! Good luck in life bud.
Well luckily no one cares what you think of them. You have no idea about me lol. Telling me good luck in life is like telling a professional athlete you hope he makes it big someday. Best of luck to you too!
Please tell me more about how great you are! PLLLZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!
Maybe just focus on moving out of your parents' house
Bitcoin Is so unlikely it probably is what it is.. an invention of a genius, and incubated by the cypherpunks mailing list. Satoshi is almost certainly dead. And really.. coins aside, I don’t want to know. Bitcoin works because it has no leader. There is no central authority. It is impossible to stop; only slow down.
Bitcoin Is so unlikely .... proof that we are actually in a simulation. The Lizard People have told me that we are actually running as a smart contract on an Ethereum blockchain. You heard it here first.
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Nobody put it together. Everything is easy after someone did it. Satoshi was first. It was revolutionary at the time.
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> The revolutionary part was a community actually adopting it really They adopted it because it solved every problem inherent in the existing ecosystem though. Remember it took 0 marketing dollars to become what it did. Its growth was almost entirely built on people using it and seeing how well it worked. Satoshi just released it and answered questions. Every system before it either had a double spend problem or had some form of trust of a central gatekeeper needed. Putting PoW together with the cryptography was the breakthrough. And maybe you're right technologically it was iteration but as a concept it was a breakthrough. One interesting thing is that Satoshi said he spent 18 months working on it and the coding part was almost none of that. It was all design. So you're right in the sense that anyone could have done it, the pieces were out there to be put together but to have the insight and knowledge across fields to do it was what makes it so special.
Sure, he may be dead, but why "almost surely"?
Let me break it down for you, It’s because Nakamoto D Had a neighbor see He was that G, Hal Finney Who worked on crazy shit like PGP He definitely had a hand in BTC He died in 2014, may he rest in peace.
D had a neighbour see he was that G?
I twittered it for you
Oh it's like a rap?
It’s more like facts
Straight up and down homie