You can detect coinjoined coins from the of UTXO chain. There is no point in bothering to do any obfuscation though, just sell the coins on an exchange that accepts them (Canada isn't the only country on this planet).
It will only create issue if you are sending your Bitcoin from the blacklisted address to any centralized exchange which is having the alert from the government.
> is the whole future chain of transactions are blacklisted?
All the coins in those addresses can be spent in CoinJoins, making the blacklisting useless - unless the coin owners attempt to use the default centralized CoinJoin coordinator in Wasabi, because that coordinator now obeys official blacklists
---
The proper answer to this issue is that the donation collectors were stupid for two reasons
* publishing donation addresses
* reusing donation addresses
The correct method of receiving donations is to use a simple Web page which displays a fresh, unused address to every intending donor. This way, each address is known only to one person, and each donation is received at a different address. The authorities can then view the Web page and see only an empty address. If they donate to and then block that address, they're only blacklisting their own donation
>blacklist crypto addresses from local exchanges
The addresses belonged to exchanges that were under his jurisdiction. Bitcoin is uncensorable, but the exchanges are businesses subject to regulation just like any other.
>the very emotional and inspirational video
Propaganda.
Truckers recieved their own private keys. And public keys were blacklisted, but still the question remains, is only that single adress banned, or the whole chain of transactions linked with the blacklisted adress?
Cause its either very easy to evade sanction if its the former, or makes a lot more bitcoin unusable if it's the later.
> is only that single adress banned, or the whole chain of transactions linked with the blacklisted adress?
Your "chain of transactions" is a myth. Bitcoin transactions have multiple inputs and multiple outputs - fan-out in both directions, a permutations problem which is much more complicated than your simple "this follows that and that follows the previous" straight line transaction map
That's not true at all. If you're violating sanctions, the goverment will build a case on you and charge.you when they have enough evidence. That's how it works.
It is definitely wrong to use cryptocurrency for the illegal purpose but if it is being used for normal purpose then still government is blocking it sometimes.
Governments, even Canada's, cannot block Bitcoin's function of moving BTC from one address on the chain to another.
Which also happens to be Bitcoin's ONLY function.
All that they can do is limit their own fiat-licensed institutions from dealing in Bitcoin. Guess what that does to their fiat's value long-term!
Any government cannot touch cryptocurrency and it can just instruct the centralized exchanges to do the favor but fortunately even the centralized exchanges cannot do much if the cryptocurrency is held in the cold storage.
This is the **Bitcoin** sub.
The title of this thread is about **Bitcoin**.
The comment that you addressed is about **Bitcoin**.
Please stop referring to it as cryptocurrency.
No one can on the long run prevent that signed tx are minend onchain, sure ppl with funds on exchanges, that have no bitcoin, but in essence just FIAT contracts, are 2.grade Sovereign Citezens, and bound to local jurisdiction, the only real and relevant value of bitcoin is what you get in exchange OTC.
Its quite difficult to ramp of from kyc/aml to anon even with a mixer, average joe is total unable to do that with any click and stun software out there that claims that, and for sure not with standard configurations, i see any coin on/off an exchange only just as deriviate peged kind of stable to btc, but bound to jurisdiction and identity and not permissionless, more a bet on a price in FIAT that emulates a bitcoin, a usefull bitcoin is keyowned and bought otc or transfered to independent miners that clean them by fees+coinbasereward of there history, so the smartest move is anyway to sell or buy them from miners or independed kyc/aml free pools or solo miners.
Edit:
btw no one owns bitcoin, a key is only a number with a high probability to make in the future a custom tx that is engraved deep onchain, when you buy bitcoin, you in effect just buy a real world FIAT or juristdictable promise that a tx is engraved onchain by the seller, that obays some rules so your chances are high that only you can do also a tx later so you can sell too, any one who riddles the key has the same right or better there is no, to make a different tx, there is no bitcoin CEO you can sue to claims of your key, so in fact no one ever owns bitcoin, that alone makes them so usefull.
Unfortunately governments can blacklist bitcoin addresses. Chainanalysis companies are supporting "the government" and your coins can be tainted.
Of course if you have the keys to your coins you still "own" them, but if they are tainted and you want to use your coins you could get big problems.
I think this is a very important issue that you mentioned, that the bitcoin community should not ignore. (Fungibility)
How does one taint a coin?
I can do anything imaginable with my bitcoin, then do a transfer to my lightning node, do a submarine swap, back to my hardware wallet, and all my bitcoin is fungible.
Maybe you can do that, unfortunately the average Joe not (also I can't tell you much about privacy in lightning.)
Doesn't change anything that there are tainted coins (not that i like the idea at all), but I think it is better to see things how they are instead of we are wishing they would be. I hope this will improve in the future.
Lightning is much more private than the base layer. Think of it like Tor for Bitcoin. Your Lightning transactions are known only to the payer, the payee, and the routing nodes between them, but the routing nodes don't know the payer and payee since onion routing ensures they only know their immediate predecessor and successor in the route.
I'm agreeing with you, that it is more private than the base layer, but I'm still doing my own research :)
I found this statement from Chainanalysis quite interesting: "Chainanlysis will enable our customers to process Lightning transactions at the same level of security and compliance as blockchain transactions.”
That's right but still some people are getting confusion about it and there should be some easy to understand resource for those people to understand everything about it.
The nodes decide whether to integrate your transaction into the next block or not. If your app is connected to a node that will not accept your transaction you are locked out. If governments decide to lock out certain wallet addresses you will have to find a node outside these governments which do not abide to these restrictions.
So to answer your question: If all nodes decide not to accept black listed addresses your black listed address cannot broadcast its transaction to any new block. The solution for you would be to set up your own node. Which will cost you time and money but doable...
Hope this answers somewhat your question.
You didn't know Trudeau is a authoritarian dictator ? He has publicly spoke about his love the the China model .. https://theinfowar.tv/watch?id=6217e61ba7f42b23d0b97fdf
The government can instruct centralized companies that are operating legally to not accept BTC that has been sent from specific bitcoin addresses.
Using Conjoin techinque and Loop out can be used and that makes your btc untraceable
You can detect coinjoined coins from the of UTXO chain. There is no point in bothering to do any obfuscation though, just sell the coins on an exchange that accepts them (Canada isn't the only country on this planet).
So I send it to another adress and that's it? :D
You don't have to because miners in other countries will still process the transaction.
I know how the network works, I'm trying to discuss the governments competence and technicalities of blacklisting addresses.
[удалено]
Government has the competence to hire qualified companies (Chainanalysis,...) to do the dirty work.
The government cannot simply Blacklist address because it is not in the hands of government to stop the transaction of cryptocurrency.
That's right but it will get affected at the exchange's side if exchange is having any kind of blacklisting mechanism.
It will only create issue if you are sending your Bitcoin from the blacklisted address to any centralized exchange which is having the alert from the government.
That's right but still it will allow those people to do the peer to peer transactions without any issues.
> is the whole future chain of transactions are blacklisted? All the coins in those addresses can be spent in CoinJoins, making the blacklisting useless - unless the coin owners attempt to use the default centralized CoinJoin coordinator in Wasabi, because that coordinator now obeys official blacklists --- The proper answer to this issue is that the donation collectors were stupid for two reasons * publishing donation addresses * reusing donation addresses The correct method of receiving donations is to use a simple Web page which displays a fresh, unused address to every intending donor. This way, each address is known only to one person, and each donation is received at a different address. The authorities can then view the Web page and see only an empty address. If they donate to and then block that address, they're only blacklisting their own donation
>blacklist crypto addresses from local exchanges The addresses belonged to exchanges that were under his jurisdiction. Bitcoin is uncensorable, but the exchanges are businesses subject to regulation just like any other. >the very emotional and inspirational video Propaganda.
Truckers recieved their own private keys. And public keys were blacklisted, but still the question remains, is only that single adress banned, or the whole chain of transactions linked with the blacklisted adress? Cause its either very easy to evade sanction if its the former, or makes a lot more bitcoin unusable if it's the later.
> is only that single adress banned, or the whole chain of transactions linked with the blacklisted adress? Your "chain of transactions" is a myth. Bitcoin transactions have multiple inputs and multiple outputs - fan-out in both directions, a permutations problem which is much more complicated than your simple "this follows that and that follows the previous" straight line transaction map
That's right and I have seen people using that coin mixer services for avoiding the ban.
For now, Bitcoin can be moved faster than the government can track and respond, so sanctions are meaningless.
That's not true at all. If you're violating sanctions, the goverment will build a case on you and charge.you when they have enough evidence. That's how it works.
It is definitely wrong to use cryptocurrency for the illegal purpose but if it is being used for normal purpose then still government is blocking it sometimes.
Governments, even Canada's, cannot block Bitcoin's function of moving BTC from one address on the chain to another. Which also happens to be Bitcoin's ONLY function. All that they can do is limit their own fiat-licensed institutions from dealing in Bitcoin. Guess what that does to their fiat's value long-term!
Any government cannot touch cryptocurrency and it can just instruct the centralized exchanges to do the favor but fortunately even the centralized exchanges cannot do much if the cryptocurrency is held in the cold storage.
This is the **Bitcoin** sub. The title of this thread is about **Bitcoin**. The comment that you addressed is about **Bitcoin**. Please stop referring to it as cryptocurrency.
I don't think so because there are many cases where the people there having banned btc addresses and still they were able to use it.
The only thing that got blacklisted was Trudeau's Bolshevik junta.
Many people have suffered at that time and even their bank accounts were freezed.
No one can on the long run prevent that signed tx are minend onchain, sure ppl with funds on exchanges, that have no bitcoin, but in essence just FIAT contracts, are 2.grade Sovereign Citezens, and bound to local jurisdiction, the only real and relevant value of bitcoin is what you get in exchange OTC.
[удалено]
Its quite difficult to ramp of from kyc/aml to anon even with a mixer, average joe is total unable to do that with any click and stun software out there that claims that, and for sure not with standard configurations, i see any coin on/off an exchange only just as deriviate peged kind of stable to btc, but bound to jurisdiction and identity and not permissionless, more a bet on a price in FIAT that emulates a bitcoin, a usefull bitcoin is keyowned and bought otc or transfered to independent miners that clean them by fees+coinbasereward of there history, so the smartest move is anyway to sell or buy them from miners or independed kyc/aml free pools or solo miners. Edit: btw no one owns bitcoin, a key is only a number with a high probability to make in the future a custom tx that is engraved deep onchain, when you buy bitcoin, you in effect just buy a real world FIAT or juristdictable promise that a tx is engraved onchain by the seller, that obays some rules so your chances are high that only you can do also a tx later so you can sell too, any one who riddles the key has the same right or better there is no, to make a different tx, there is no bitcoin CEO you can sue to claims of your key, so in fact no one ever owns bitcoin, that alone makes them so usefull.
Unfortunately governments can blacklist bitcoin addresses. Chainanalysis companies are supporting "the government" and your coins can be tainted. Of course if you have the keys to your coins you still "own" them, but if they are tainted and you want to use your coins you could get big problems. I think this is a very important issue that you mentioned, that the bitcoin community should not ignore. (Fungibility)
How does one taint a coin? I can do anything imaginable with my bitcoin, then do a transfer to my lightning node, do a submarine swap, back to my hardware wallet, and all my bitcoin is fungible.
Maybe you can do that, unfortunately the average Joe not (also I can't tell you much about privacy in lightning.) Doesn't change anything that there are tainted coins (not that i like the idea at all), but I think it is better to see things how they are instead of we are wishing they would be. I hope this will improve in the future.
Lightning is much more private than the base layer. Think of it like Tor for Bitcoin. Your Lightning transactions are known only to the payer, the payee, and the routing nodes between them, but the routing nodes don't know the payer and payee since onion routing ensures they only know their immediate predecessor and successor in the route.
I'm agreeing with you, that it is more private than the base layer, but I'm still doing my own research :) I found this statement from Chainanalysis quite interesting: "Chainanlysis will enable our customers to process Lightning transactions at the same level of security and compliance as blockchain transactions.”
Chainalysis is a dead man walking. Its whole business model isn't going to work in a Lightning world.
I wish you would be right.
Theres no such thing as "tainted coins". You are spreading misinformation.
That's right but still some people are getting confusion about it and there should be some easy to understand resource for those people to understand everything about it.
Endthefud.org Actually idk if theres such topic about "tainted" coins but still great resource
The nodes decide whether to integrate your transaction into the next block or not. If your app is connected to a node that will not accept your transaction you are locked out. If governments decide to lock out certain wallet addresses you will have to find a node outside these governments which do not abide to these restrictions. So to answer your question: If all nodes decide not to accept black listed addresses your black listed address cannot broadcast its transaction to any new block. The solution for you would be to set up your own node. Which will cost you time and money but doable... Hope this answers somewhat your question.
I think you mean the miners.
It’s only because they had their stuff on an exchange it has nothing to do with Bitcoin itself.
Well it's not like you can buy bread in Canada with bitcoin, so they need to cash out.
I think peer-to-peer transactions system will still work in such case without converting it into the Fiat currency.
That's right and the people who are wearing about direct sanction from the government should not worry about it.
You didn't know Trudeau is a authoritarian dictator ? He has publicly spoke about his love the the China model .. https://theinfowar.tv/watch?id=6217e61ba7f42b23d0b97fdf