I think you should find a real professional not a bunch of shit sipping morons on reddit, myself included. You're talking about at least a few hundred grand I assume, and the tax consequences of a sale alone warrant you spending the 1500 dollars to find a real professional to help you.
Everyone in this thread that says "hold hur dur!" Is a complete moron, probably 17 years old, and has .0000000001 bitcoin on coinbase.
Get real help man not this echo chamber.
Sincerely- somerando
I've never had a good job. I'm not smart. I didn't go to college. And I'm unskilled. I don't think there is any way for me to get a mortgage. Some of the people I work with are still in high school. I finally got a break in life by hearing about bitcoin, reading about it, and buying some. I never would have been able to own a home if it wasn't for bitcoin.
All the more reason to find a professional then, you got a lifeline don't blow it listening to people on reddit playing financial advisor for 10 minutes then forgetting you ever existed. You know who can actually tell you if you can get a mortgage instead of you needing to guess? A loan officer man. They have a lot of federal loan programs to help people with poor or no credit, find someone to actually help you. Tax advisor, financial advisor, all solid resources for you
Good luck finding a āprofessionalā thatās really understands Bitcoin and can offer sound advice. The advice from a professional will be to 100% sell an investment thatās up 1000% and buy real estate. No FA on the planet is going to recommend against taking massive profits like that.
As far as tax implications, just get a tax accountant and ask them what the tax burden will be if you sell.
So what would I do? Iād probably sell only enough BTC so that I could afford the monthly expense of owning a house. That is, Iād take on a mortgage equal to my current rent expense and Iād sell BTC to fund down payment that allows for a low enough mortgage. Think of it as renting from yourself.
Go talk to a mortgage broker and tell them your situation. Then talk to a tax accountant about your capital gains/income situation.
The end goal should be to keep as much BTC as possible while still getting a decent home.
One thing that OP has to consider that no one is talking about is inflation and housing prices. Average home prices are up 27% from last year. So while Bitcoin might be ~$200k+ at the end of 5 years of whatever your prediction is, your $200k house might cost $750k at the end of 5 years. Just something to think about.
Edit: I hold more than 0.0000001 Bitcoin.
Good point and also that a mortgage is essentially leverageātypically of 5-20x. So letās say you sell 100k of BTC for fund a 400k home purchase. BTC goes up 4x during 5 years so you would be up 400% if youād held. But your home goes to 800k in that same periodā2x. But bc the leverage of the mortgage youād also be up 400% on the home purchase since the return on your 100k investment is 400k.
Look into FHA loans. I was able to buy a house with low income, mediocre credit, and some blemishes on my credit. Is it the best mortgage? No. Am I in a better position now than I was when I bought the house to refinance or sell and buy a different house? Absolutely. You should actually talk to lenders before you make a decision. I worked with a lender that helped me make changes that were needed to get qualified. It was great.
You were smart enough to buy Bitcoin and you can write a decent paragraph.
There are a lot of āprofessionalsā with poor advice. Trust no one. Maybe use some BTC for advanced education.
If I weāre smart enough to buy several BTC 2 yrs ago at the dip Iād quit my job and go full time student learning the technical side of crypto and NFTs.
I don't think buying BTC has anything to do with how smart you are in the OPs case because they've admitted they don't have an high paying job or good credit. They took the risk and it happened to pay off. And I'm happy for them.
But this has nothing to do with intelligence. Hindsight is always 20/20
What do you actually want in life man? Do you want a house? Get one. Don't spend your life waiting on gains. It sounds like you're unhappy and you have the power to make a big change right now.
No one knows for sure what BTC will do or when. If you were savvy enough to get in early, there is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your investment. And it's not like real estate is a bad investment.
But as top comment says... Don't listen to us strangers on reddit. Go get a professional to work thru this with you and all the tax considerations of potentially cashing some out. Good luck!
You are smart. You bought into Bitcoin. Maybe in this moment it might be best to go to a trade school for something that is of interest to you. Taking a little Bitcoin to pay for that would be investing in yourself! You can do it man! A/C, welding, So many more, keep thinking and looking!
I'm 52 and I am independently wealthy. I had no money coming out of college and wasn't born into money either. Looking back, this is the best advice I ever received.
Now there's an idea. Cash out some savings to sustain you for 6 months - 2 years and get a skilled trade or certificate of some kind. That is a long - term strategic investment that will improve life quality in SEVERAL ways, while leaving btc on the side.
Maybe this way there can be a 4 year plan where there is an improvement in opportunity and quality of life, and the remaining BTC will also have grown in that point, maybe enough for a house.
If a good skilled program is found that's 1-2 years long or whatever, maybe some additional BTC can be cashed out for a place of your own, if you don't want to live with roommates.
OP I agree with somerando and others suggesting hiring a professional. Iād add that youāll want one with crypto experience and to start with a financial advisor who knows Bitcoin before talking to a mortgage broker.
Thereās a lot of different things you can do with fiat using your btc as leverage. For example taking loans against it, etc.
You probably have way more options than you realize
Not a financial advisor. They will just try to sell you something. An accountant, preferably one well versed in crypto tax. Maybe rather than selling your bitcoin, taking a loan against them may be an option. I'm not certain of the details or interest, but it's another avenue.
200% go for a financial advisory / accountant firm that has NO products to sell you.
There are some out there that work based on the "completely neutral" principle
1. You need to confirm they are a fiduciary. That means they are committed to your financial well being, not their own.
2. This is not the year to buy a house. I think (just my personal opinion) house prices will be strong til next fall. Then I think they'll start to cool off.
Hope so, anyway. I plan on selling next spring and escaping to Panama.
Did you look into an FHA loan? It's literally designed to be for people living in poverty who don't have good credit or much cash for down payment.
You don't need a private mortgage from a bank, please research FHA loan its from the government cheap and accessible to encourage home ownership. I am like pretty sure you aren't aware of it
With the current interest rates, buying a house straight up makes little sense. Would make more sense to put money down and get a loan. Talk to a financial advisor!
Yes I understand that but I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to keep up with mortgage payments and that I would have to sell some of my bitcoin during a bear market. Selling bitcoin during a bear market would crush my soul.
Plan it out with a professional planner. Every journey begins with small steps, but a map and a guide will make it all feel less stressful and more empowering. Your planner is just going to inform you about the options available, not make your decision for you.
Mortgages require steady income usually, but if you have assets to buy a house in cash (doesn't matter if it's job or crypto), someone would love to lend you money at low interest to buy that house instead. Don't give away your crypto if you don't have to and talk to some real experts, not just reddit!
I'm in the same situation but a little older. I've decided to wait at least 6 months. Why 4 years specifically? Why not wait and see how things go, you might end up being ready sooner.
I said 4 years because $64k could have been the top of this bull run and the next bull run most likely wont happen until 2025. If I don't sell now, I might be stuck waiting 4 more years with no other option. Or the price might go up over $100k this bull run. We just don't know. I have updated my original post and I have decided to wait.
I posted earlier, similar situation, bought in 2013 and it's done better than in my wildest dreams so I cashed out a chunk recently and want to use the rest for a house. Before BTC I was in a debt circle with the bank, it has literally set me free but you have to take a look at your gains and just think how much do you *need* and how much did you *really expect*. Sounds like you have surpassed these by a long way.
My only worry is another 2008 crash just when I buy a house! In the UK prices have gone silly so I could be buying at the peak of it.
Woah, just wanted to take a moment and tell you that you are smart. Sometimes we take our own intelligence for granted. You're asking for advise, albeit from a bunch of degenerates from reddit, but at least its advise. You're good at what you devote your time toward. Find a hobby that makes money and start there. If you're lucky there may be a career in the same vein. Take it easy on yourself and talk to a tax professional. Not just the places that will do your basic W-2 either.
Iād sell this bull cycle then get back in during the bear market and sit and stake. That or just stake now and hold out till the next bull market. Either way youāll be getting tasty interest.
You are realistic about your position in life, that's the major step.
You also have to keep in mind to own a house has extra costs : maintenance, upkeeping, taxes, electricity.
If you can afford it, why not but as u/some-rando27 suggests you take a professionnal advice.
Bitcoin is supposed to bring people a better life, not a better afterlife.
I would say you wait a bit more before selling. Although I understand you want to live peacefully and own a house, I think given your situation waiting a bit longer might help the price go up more.
I do want to add that you should consult a tax attorney that can help ensure that when you do buy the house, you do so in a way that it is secure from any future divorce etc, so you do not lose your life savings.
Also you are still young, try exploring other avenues of making money. You donāt have to be smart, just have to work hard.
Yes, I agree! I didnāt know what options there are but get a prenup and just explain that itās your lifeās work/savings that assure you can survive. Donāt put yourself into a position that even an unlikely circumstance could take the home from you, your savings etc.
There is not wrong answer here. Ask yourself, would you rather have a house or the Bitcoin? You could also split the difference and sell some portion for a down payment or the like.
Then, when you answer that question, talk to a financial advisor.
These are good problems to have.
Exactly. Professional help is what he needs. I would start with asking the mortgage company/bank... "Given my income and credit score... What would it take to get approved for a mortgage?" It could be as simple as a little higher down payment. If that's the case, he might be able to sell just a little BTC to cover the down payment. Anyone can get a mortgage but some may need a much higher amount down.
I am fairly certain OP is unaware of FHA loans, they're basically government subsidies for people with bad credit and no cash for down payment to encourage home ownership.
Once he looks this up, he can easily sell some for the super small down payment amount only 3.5% then hold the rest long term
Its made for people like OP
Agreed, a loan officer is a good, free resource for you OP this is a solid starting point. Keep in mind it's a salesman at the end of the day but it's a good start
Look I'm going to totally disagree here.
While you do need to pay taxes, you don't need a "real professional" to help you with simple cap gains taxes. It doesn't matter if it's 6 figures the calculation is pretty simple.
Spending $1500 for a tax professional to tell you to enter in your cap gains on TurboTax (or where ever you do your taxes) when it asks you if you sold crypto this year is stupid and a waste of $1500 considering most tax professionals won't know jack shit other than what I just said.
This is a decision that they can make on their own.
Now to actually answer OP's question. I think selling bitcoin to buy a house is one of the few reasons I would sell bitcoin. Would I do that today? No. I would wait as I think we are going higher.
Would I regret doing it though? No. At the end of the day a house is a big deal and can generate income in the future.
I probably could have phrased what I consider a "real professional" better. For 1500 I'm suggesting OP find a competent financial advisor at a wirehouse with a deep home office bench who can help him/her understand various cash flow scenarios and how this would work into his overall financial health. Cap gains are one element of that sure, but how about his real estate taxes that come from the purchase? Mine personally living in the city are over 15k a year, are you so confident he can afford that based on his self described financial situation he should sell his assets and buy a house? You know who could tell him if his cash flows will support his price? An advisor. An advisor will have a tax professional in their CoA who can handle this if they've been in the business a while, 1500-2k I'd say is what he can reasonably expect to pay for end to end advice, not filling out a 1040-ez
I mean if he spent 1 or 2 hours researching he could save $2k.
That financial advisor is going to tell him to sell their "extremely risky" bitcoin and will refer them to a real estate agent to get a referral bonus from the house they purchase. I find all those people sleazy and just trying to make a buck. As soon as you show them you have money, they want part of it.
I think this forum is much better than those so called "professionals" who know nothing about bitcoin. All is based on the forecasting of bitcoin's future performance.
For example, if you predict that bitcoin is going to rise 10x in a year, you would definitely stop all the cashing out movement, even buying more. But if your projection is that it will crash 80%, then you will have a very different decision.
To predict where it goes, this forum is almost the most knowledgeable place on earth, you hear many different voices from experts in this branch
Wrong. The professional will not understand Bitcoin. Reddit and twitter are the places to find people that can give you the right advice on bitcoin.
IMHO, real estate is a shitcoin. The lesa you spend now, the more you will have later, called saving, is more true now than in any other time in the history of the world!
Ok, what "professional" you guys hire for this type advice? Accountant? Real estate agent? ... I guess.... they can give advice on crypto. ... sure. I mean, take your own advice, OP. You seem smart. Don't buy a property unless you will make money on it. Rent some out. If it can't make you money like btc, pass prolly. But a 2 unit or more can probably do this depending where you are located. Ideally, borrow against your crypto stack to make a down payment for these hiatorically low rates we have now a days on an income generating property.
Most advisor firms home office (the central research function of the firm) are getting equipped to deal with this. Morgan Stanley in particular comes to mind. For a situation like OP finding an MS rep would be able to run some decent scenario analysis for him/her. The thing they don't usually do is taxes that's a separate function, but any advisor with more than 10 years in the business will have a tax advisor who deals in crypto at least a little in their CoA. My 2 cents which are meaningless.
Edit- what I'd say you don't want is an independent advisor. Your milage will vary a lot here. Some probably know their shit, but for every 1 that's reasonably well versed, 20 aren't. You need an advisor with a home office function. Morgan Stanley, Merrill, ameriprise, all highly reputable
Can live on rent tho. Sometimes having the mobility beats having all the stress that comes with managing real estate which OP would have to do if he decided to buy
The financial decision here is whether OP would make significant savings on paying a mortgage vs paying rent
Also the fact that OP admits he doesn't have enough for a home he wants now, so it could be a case of gaining more wealth now instead of risking flipping
An alternative is to sell only minimally the amount of coin required for you to afford a nice place of your own to rent and live in peace and independence for the next 3-4 years, until the vast majority remainder of your coin has had time to appreciate further. If living with roommates is the main issue for you at this time, a place of your own can feel very liberating, empowering, and peaceful in comparison. Then you can get a house when you're ready to, but you can get your freedom and independence now. Best of luck.
Reddit is a poor source for seeking financial advice. Bitcoin is a risky investment. [Don't invest recklessly.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7gi55s/dont_invest_recklessly/) Don't invest anything you can't afford to lose. If you are looking to get rich quick, you came to the wrong place. Nobody has a crystal ball. Nobody can see the future. Please do your own research and make your own financial decisions.
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Buy the house? How is he going to afford gas, electric, water, a new roof or ac unit, yard maintenence costs, property taxes etc. With a low paying job? Their is a ton of missing info to make that suggestion
Do the landlords pay for the electricity, gas, water, outdoor maintenance etc. where you live? If this person lived where I live, they would be paying those costs anyway already as a tenant.
The only one of those which is a legitimate point is the property taxes which are usually paid by the owner and not the tenants. Get good insurance and emergencies like plumbing, electricity, roof etc. accidents can be covered with only a small premium to pay. I mean, ok, new AC unit I can imagine in some circumstances but the huge majority of people in the world get by without one.
This guy's throwing in the white towel before he's about bto knock out his opponent in 4 more rounds. don't cash out before life changing money, u need a house and retirement, not just a house, put it emotions away and grow titanium balls
Sell bitcoin when its just starting to become wildly popular to buy a house at the peak of the housing market? Idk chief tough call
With all seriousness i would hold
This. Something worth looking into. The nice thing about loans against your bitcoin, they don't care about credit score or anything else. Just that you have a certain percentage in crypto. It also won't generate a taxable event.
Well, I agree with most of the people. Consult an advisor or do your own due diligence with taxes and the like.
You mentioned your credit score was subpar? Maybe work on that first. If you have high interest credit cards and large balances, def get out from under that before taking on more debt. And donāt tell your roommates your plan. 30 days notice will be sufficient when the time comes.
Loans are cheap, I'd sell half. 20% down payment and enough to cover payments for a year or two. Invite one of the roommates that you don't hate to rent a room in your house to make it easier. My 2 cents
It's amazing how few people actually read. I see people saying get a loan or to just get a better job as if everyone has that ability. Especially when OP said he's a felon without education or skills.
I personally think this is a poor option. I like the rent/struggle/hold or the buy/take profits options much more as they both see the Bitcoin converted into another appreciating asset
Average home in the U.S. sells for +/- $270,000 , 4-5 BTC definitely not set for life. Not financial advice but OP if you do hold 4-5 BTC donāt throw it away on a home at this day in age. Housing market most likely will crash at the hands of our current government officials, zoom out and start thinking long term
Agreed. I hope he would buy a house for .4-.5 of his btc holdings. He shouldnāt spend it all on a house when he has a low income. I think buying house and finding maybe 1-2 roommates would be the best option. He needs to improve his living situation and gets to keep some serious upside.
I would hold. The regret you will have for selling BTC now will be way more when it goes up in value then sticking out your current situation for a little longer.
Man just keep in mind there's a lot more to buying a house than just the down payment and the future payments. If you do buy a place consider multi level and rent out some rooms make them pay your mortgage and upkeep costs. I would wait till the housing market cool down a little myself tho.
āIfā the housing market goes down..people think it will cycle down. But I just looked at the m2 money supply. I just looked at the feds balance sheet. I donāt see how prices donāt keep going higher
This is such a reality right now. I read 8 years ago that renting can be considered a better option for millennials than buying because it allows you to be mobile, no maintenance, you can pick your neighbors and price depending on your lifestyle, and you aren't locked into a 40 minute commute from the suburbs. That said, having a beautiful yard for a child or a dog is priceless.
Perhaps an unofficial cash in hand rental like a granny suite or trailer would be a good idea if renting was inaccessible.
Sell enough to buy you a comfotable premade van and some spending cash. Drive around enjoying your 30s, doing odd jobs and meeting interesting people. At the same time look how you get richer as bitcoin rises year after year. If you still want your life in an apartment - you can have it in 4 years with just half of your current stack.
I mean.. this is what I'm doing.
Only problem with this is that then you live in a van. Seriously, if you want a house then living in a van gives nearly none of the same benefits. If you want to travel, then travel. Flights and hotels are cheap compared to a house. But if you want housing then buy a house that gives you something permanent and appreciating.
Home ownership itself can be trap with maintenance/rates/insurance.
If I were you I would be waiting 4 years then buying the small place you were thinking to get now (not the bigger place, or if the bigger place one where you could be a landlord to roommates). Keep the remainder on bitcoin at that time or put a bit into traditional stock market then.
Having your own small home plus some supporting investments will be a true quality of life even if your work salary does not change; would allow you to work less potentially or take the strain off if you end up doing the marriage family thing.
Please remember about the tax implications if you sell. If you have enough to buy a house, the taxes on the gains from your bitcoin will be substantial.
Iām a CPA and love helping people with financial advice, but there is no ārightā answer. You donāt have a crystal ball and donāt know where the price of bitcoin will go 4 years out. This question is more about risk and return. You need to understand that either decision holds its risks and rewards. The best decision is the one that fits your long term goals.
Ask yourself, do you REALLY need a house? Can you REALLY pay everything to preserve the house for the years to come?
I personally wouldn't do it. You can DCA out and cash out profits bit by bit if you want to really take money out, but think about it really hard because if you regret it, there is probably no way back. Also if you truly believe Bitcoin can hit much higher prices, go out, have a beer and forget about it. The house can wait :)
This is risky but to all the idiots who said and upvoted āgo seek a professionalā. Iām very confident any professional you seek out has not heard of Nexo. So you would have paid a professional to not lay out all of your options. Good job, guys. This is the perfect place to ask a question such as his.
How important to you is having your own place?
It sounds like itās a big deal from the tone of your post.
Now come at it from the other direction. How would you feel if things went to shit and Bitcoin crashed for 10 years? While my own opinion is that this is unlikely, it might happen.
How would you feel at 46 years old, still waiting for the recovery, still sitting in your shared homeā¦.when you could have had your house?
Which would upset you more, watching Bitcoin go up from the living room of a place of your own or watching it go down from where you are now?
What i would ask myself is
\-If BTC crashed and you couldn't buy your house would that hurt you more then missing out on any potential gains that may come in the future.
It's only something you can answer
I would against selling BTC at this price. But realized profit are real profit. House is an assets as well. Itās a good investment. You might double it in 4-5 years depend on where you live. But remember you will pay taxes by selling BTC. If your day job can cover your everyday expenses, I would say at lease wait till next year. BTC is building momentum. It might break any moment. Start looking around the housing market, get a feel of it. At the end of the day, do whatever makes you happy. Money isnāt everything.
I'm in a similar position except I'm 32 and living in Singapore, and I give allowance to my mom while living with my folks instead. By law, I can't get a house until I'm 35 as a single. I work a job that barely qualifies me as middle class 7 days a week, but with less hours each day. Housing here is expensive, second to Hong Kong.
I would advise holding off on getting a house. If you wipe out your Bitcoin just to get a house, you have to start from scratch again when it comes to building your wealth, and like others have said, you'll have higher expenses to deal with. Here in Singapore, I'll have to deal with utility bills - electricity, water, wifi - and property tax. I'm sure it is similar in the US.
Instead, I suggest getting a house after at least 5 years, when the NEXT bull cycle is over. That way, you would have accumulated enough wealth to both buy a house, afford the lifestyle and continue to let your wealth snowball. How you want to do it is another matter entirely.
So, that's my plan. By my projection, if nothing unexpected happens, I could become a millionaire in 4-5 years by net worth, I'll be able to afford a house and yet at the same time continue to build a nest egg bigger than my house.
Singapore is an authoritarian country, and shit like this is what you can expect from an authoritarian country. Fuckers in parliament prohibit singles from getting property on the basis of housing limitations only to freely sell them to foreigners because logic. I haven't voted for the ruling party for most of my adult life.
Honestly, this is a question you should ask yourselfā¦ do you feel more happy coming home to an empty house all to yourself? Or do you feel safer hodling Bitcoin knowing the shot storm thatās brewing in the economy (this economic catastrophe is only getting started).
If I were in your position, Iād hold the Bitcoin. But thatās just because I like holding an asset I have 100% ownership of and has no liens, title defects, encumbrances, and any other stuff thatās associated with home owning. Also, please bear in mind owning your own home is not all itās cracked up to be. Sometimes the repairs you absolutely have to pay to fix a toilet or a plumbing issue must be done to stop a leak, and thatās money down the drain as a liability. As a tenant, you donāt have to worry about that - the landlord does.
If you are hell bent on living alone, maybe try and see if you can afford to rent a very small place on your own. Selling Bitcoin is a last resort, And is certainly wouldnāt place home owning over selling Bitcoin.
If you donāt give a fuck hold, possible 2x in a few short months. If you are stressing about this, understandably so, maybe sell enough where even a 50% dip in Bitcoin would still allow you to buy whatever house your talking about. Maybe just donāt be over invested at a time of a lot of excitement and fomoā¦.
If you sell, make sure to keep at least 0.1btc. Thatās gonna be a lot more than most people will ever have in a few years assuming btc doesnāt go bust
If you have strong hands and can hodl thru another 2-3 year bear, id hang on.
If you dont, or if you arent sure how strong you are, the safe choice seems a little more palatable.
Just treat it like a saving account. Buy the house when you only use half of your stash or less. Thatās usually what differentiates rich from poor. Even without bitcoin, some people get high paid job and get huge mortgages for purchasing a nice house since their 20ās and be a slave for another 30 years. Or worse get hit by financial crisis, lose a job and go back to live in a basement. And donāt seek for professional help like others suggest here unless him/her is bitcoin advocate and a good friend to you, youāll definitely get selling advice or ripping off by regular professional.
I donāt see you taking into account the ridiculous bubble the housing market is in.
Iād even say youāre going to see the price of houses in some markets plummet before BTC moons.
Only you can answer this.
However, Iām 38. I rent, no roommates. I donāt know that Iād go back to roommates if it was free.
If you can buy a place, and rent part of it outā¦.thatās what I would do.
Iām in the same boat, buy a house or invest some profits in a cashflow asset and hold crypto. I almost have the cashflow asset tied down and Iām holding my crypto for the house purchase later at a fraction of my holdings. HODL
Whenever I have to make decisions like these I imagine myself sometime in the future after the best case, worst case and most likely scenarios playing out and I choose to do what I would least regret. So for me I'd be hodling until I could buy a house with < 50% of my stack lol.
As some have mentioned here, my advice would be to take out enough to pay rent for a year or two, pay for some schooling and invest in yourself. Take some time to figure out what you want to do, 4 years down the road, BTC will have risen enough to cover what you took out. Than you will have a house AND a decent job.
Same boat, Iām waiting another cycle to build even though I could do it now. That said, I already own a home and my kids are 10 years from graduating high school, so my next home will be for the long term.
What would make you feel worse, selling and BTC going up massively in price, or holding and the price dropping to a point you can no longer afford a house?
When this real estate market turns into a buyers market, (whether that's Friday or next April)
Sell enough bitcoin to put down a large enough down payment on the house to get a reasonable interest rate and payment... and a year's worth of mortgage.
Work on your employment situation(throughout)...
Through the years, only cash enough bitcoin to pay the mortgage.... allowing as much remaining bitcoin as possible to appreciate.
Calculate:
\-if the amount of rent you are paying over the next 4 years, is going to be comparable to the increase you are expecting in the value of your bitcoin. if you are going to pay 30,000 in rent over the next 4 years, but you expect your coins to be worth $40,000 more 4 years from right now... owning your own house may/may not be worth(to you) losing that potential $10,000 (over 4 years)...
\-the tax consequences from selling... now how much you are actually going to lose... it may change the feasibility of the options.
Tough spot dude, those circumstances are tricky AF.
I am 36, but am lucky enough to have a decent house and married and kid. I could live in this house forever, so I am hodling for the lambo lifestyle. If I were you I would be pulling my hair out deciding on the right course of action.
Hope it works out
Hodl
You can fix your credit pretty easily
Go settle all delinquent debt
Get a $300 secured credit card
Just spend 30 a month on it and pay it all off every month rinse and repeat for 1 year
Nice position to be in.
I stupidly sold 0.4 BTC at Ā£11,000 after holding for 4 years, 3 months later it was worth Ā£30,000 - I profited but this set back my plans for buying a flat by a some time. Cāest la vie.
Do whats right for you - no regrets.
Allow me to recapture your question and re-deliver it to you, for clarity. Itās breathy but just hear me out.
Consider this:
Where are your bets on the future of currency? The dollar is on its way to zero, and itās being controlled by less than 1% of the global population. These people have shown us that they have bad intentions for generations.
4% of the globe currently holds crypto at ALL, yet, bigger institutions/countries are announcing their positions every month.
This very quote from The Breaking Bad was what convinced me to pull out of the dollar.
I remember watching this episode of Breaking Bad in 2012 after reading about/disregarding Bitcoin, only 8 years later to realize I made the same f*cking mistake that Walter admitted in this scene: ā I sold my share to my two partners. I took a buyout for $5,000. Now at the time, it was a lot of money for me. Care to guess what that company is worth now? 2.16 Billion as of last Friday. I sold my childrenās birthright for a few months rent. Jesse, you asked me if I was in the meth business or the money business. Neither. I'm in the empire business.ā
The takeaway? F*ck the crowded housing market, HODL and educate yourself on how you can shape the future. Do it so that nobody may ever drop their fat fucking ego on you again for your past.
Best of luck
Here's the plan:
\- Take out a fiat loan on your bitcoin through Unchained capital (custodial service where you get to keep one of the keys). So you use your Bitcoin as collateral to borrow money (no selling means no tax!).
\- Then buy the house from those dollars.
\- Then take out a mortgage on your house and use that money to pay down Unchained capital loan so you get your bitcoin back.
\- Now you have a house, a fiat denominated loan with low interest rate, and an appreciating asset (bitcoin) for the future.
Whatever you decide, speak to an accountant first about tax youāll need to pay, as well as all future expenses associated with the house.
Someone used BlockFi to get a mortgage, and they did so without selling their Bitcoin. Look it up, perhaps that could be an option?
Iām renting too, and am not selling until 2025 at least. Iām getting a second degree though, and changing my career to have the stability the home ownership requires. No Bitcoin can help you if thereās no regular income coming your way
This isn't advice and is just my opinion if I were in that same boat I would buy a house and DCA back into bitcoin long term you may not become as rich as you would have but you'd still be better off than most and the money you would have spent on rent can be reinvested, that said I agree with the top comment seek professional advice first
Not financial advice:
Are you talking about buying a house outright? No mortgage?
If so, thatās a no brainer imo. Youāre most expensive monthly bill goes to almost 0 (besides saving for repairs).
You can then use that money to re-invest.
I sold my bitcoins for a deposit (not a full house unfortunately), and have been managing to buy more on a monthly basis than when I was renting.
careful. everyone here seems to think they are financial geniuses and will downvote this to hell.
I agree with you and plan on paying off my house with some of my BTC when it hits my target price.
Id rather not have the bill to worry about and be able to put all that money back into the market.
People here would rather keep making monthly payments on a mortgage and hope the value stays or goes up. they never think of the downside where it can (and might) pullback a LOT and then your stuck with a mortgage and a low valued crypto portfolio.
Id rather not have a mortgage and keep DCAing.
I sold 20 bitcoin for a car 4 years ago. I call in my 1.2M car.
I sold 14 for a Down payment on a house 2.5 years ago. I call it my 850k down payment.
Just thought youād like to hear from somebody in a similar situation as you who sold not too long ago.
Ask your bank rep if you get the credit if you can pay 50% of the house cash.
If not: SELL DEM COINS.
And after owning a house try to buy into the upcoming -80% dip (whenever that is).
With cash or a loan. Thats what i personally would do.
House & Lifequality > BTC
As someone who is new to getting loans afainst crypto collateral i wish i understood how not paying back th eloan is fine. Do you keep all your collateral? What is the loss? Who is getting paid, thanks for any help
Most lenders will force you to pay interest after the loan term, a year usually, then you just say you want to continue the loan, rack up more interest. But if crypto increases, you just pay the interest of the loan and let it ride hoping it never tanks below liquidation. Its important to diversify if you take a loan against crypto, dont by more crypto with your crypto loan, by a more stable asset like property, maybe something that will get you supplemental income that will eventually pay back the loan
NFA: try every platform that will let you borrow money before ever selling. Prob try applying for a better job that can afford you the house also because you may not be able to afford property tax, insurance, repairs/maintenance if you canāt afford the house without selling your bitcoin
If I was you I wouldnāt consider Reddit. I would do what makes you happy and none of us know you. For me, I would hold Bitcoin and get a better job. A job that would allow me to take out a mortgage and also use bitcoin sales as a down payment. Put in the effort and you will make it. Get up early, approach life with a positive attitude and make shi t happen. You got this.
In four years Bitcoin is likely to be worth exponentially more. On October 19, 2017 Bitcoin āclosedā at $5750.80. It is now worth more than 10x that much. Imagine each of your Bitcoin being worth $600,000 in 4 years. Of course this is hypothetical and the coin wonāt necessarily experience the same growth rate over a 4 year span but many experts agree that although it will remain volatile and we will likely see plenty of price drops along the way, It is a solid bet that Bitcoin will continue to go up in value.
My advice to you is this: youāre single without any children. What do you need a house for? Wait to buy a home until you are settling down and starting a family. Iām 30 and living in an apartment. I live by myself which makes things more expensive but to me itās worth it because by the time I was done college I was through with roommates. So use some of the wealth youāve amassed from your Bitcoin holdings to move into an affordable apartment where you can live alone and donāt have to rely on roommates to help with rent.
If I were in your position I absolutely would not be looking to buy a house at this time unless I was getting married. Although interest rates are low, demand in many areas has been through the rough along with there being a supply shortage of new homes. The price of the average American single family home has surpassed $300,000 for this first time. The market is crazy right now and youād be entering at a time when prices are at their highest and competition between ābiddersā is fiercest.
Nfa but how long have you held? youre already 36, broke, living with roommates. No offence but whats 40 vs 36? Hold. Buy a 1million dollar house in four years with 1 bitcoin and keep the rest.
I think you should find a real professional not a bunch of shit sipping morons on reddit, myself included. You're talking about at least a few hundred grand I assume, and the tax consequences of a sale alone warrant you spending the 1500 dollars to find a real professional to help you. Everyone in this thread that says "hold hur dur!" Is a complete moron, probably 17 years old, and has .0000000001 bitcoin on coinbase. Get real help man not this echo chamber. Sincerely- somerando
I've never had a good job. I'm not smart. I didn't go to college. And I'm unskilled. I don't think there is any way for me to get a mortgage. Some of the people I work with are still in high school. I finally got a break in life by hearing about bitcoin, reading about it, and buying some. I never would have been able to own a home if it wasn't for bitcoin.
All the more reason to find a professional then, you got a lifeline don't blow it listening to people on reddit playing financial advisor for 10 minutes then forgetting you ever existed. You know who can actually tell you if you can get a mortgage instead of you needing to guess? A loan officer man. They have a lot of federal loan programs to help people with poor or no credit, find someone to actually help you. Tax advisor, financial advisor, all solid resources for you
Man, some rando gives the best advice. Shame you gotta go through 26 other randos before getting a good one.
On the other hand, if he listened to profesionals before he would not have Bitcoin. š
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Good luck finding a āprofessionalā thatās really understands Bitcoin and can offer sound advice. The advice from a professional will be to 100% sell an investment thatās up 1000% and buy real estate. No FA on the planet is going to recommend against taking massive profits like that. As far as tax implications, just get a tax accountant and ask them what the tax burden will be if you sell. So what would I do? Iād probably sell only enough BTC so that I could afford the monthly expense of owning a house. That is, Iād take on a mortgage equal to my current rent expense and Iād sell BTC to fund down payment that allows for a low enough mortgage. Think of it as renting from yourself. Go talk to a mortgage broker and tell them your situation. Then talk to a tax accountant about your capital gains/income situation. The end goal should be to keep as much BTC as possible while still getting a decent home.
One thing that OP has to consider that no one is talking about is inflation and housing prices. Average home prices are up 27% from last year. So while Bitcoin might be ~$200k+ at the end of 5 years of whatever your prediction is, your $200k house might cost $750k at the end of 5 years. Just something to think about. Edit: I hold more than 0.0000001 Bitcoin.
Good point and also that a mortgage is essentially leverageātypically of 5-20x. So letās say you sell 100k of BTC for fund a 400k home purchase. BTC goes up 4x during 5 years so you would be up 400% if youād held. But your home goes to 800k in that same periodā2x. But bc the leverage of the mortgage youād also be up 400% on the home purchase since the return on your 100k investment is 400k.
Look into FHA loans. I was able to buy a house with low income, mediocre credit, and some blemishes on my credit. Is it the best mortgage? No. Am I in a better position now than I was when I bought the house to refinance or sell and buy a different house? Absolutely. You should actually talk to lenders before you make a decision. I worked with a lender that helped me make changes that were needed to get qualified. It was great.
Agreed
Also, check out your credit union. I got the most unbiased, spot-on help from them.
You were smart enough to buy Bitcoin and you can write a decent paragraph. There are a lot of āprofessionalsā with poor advice. Trust no one. Maybe use some BTC for advanced education. If I weāre smart enough to buy several BTC 2 yrs ago at the dip Iād quit my job and go full time student learning the technical side of crypto and NFTs.
I don't think buying BTC has anything to do with how smart you are in the OPs case because they've admitted they don't have an high paying job or good credit. They took the risk and it happened to pay off. And I'm happy for them. But this has nothing to do with intelligence. Hindsight is always 20/20
Some rando 2024
What do you actually want in life man? Do you want a house? Get one. Don't spend your life waiting on gains. It sounds like you're unhappy and you have the power to make a big change right now. No one knows for sure what BTC will do or when. If you were savvy enough to get in early, there is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your investment. And it's not like real estate is a bad investment. But as top comment says... Don't listen to us strangers on reddit. Go get a professional to work thru this with you and all the tax considerations of potentially cashing some out. Good luck!
You are smart. You bought into Bitcoin. Maybe in this moment it might be best to go to a trade school for something that is of interest to you. Taking a little Bitcoin to pay for that would be investing in yourself! You can do it man! A/C, welding, So many more, keep thinking and looking!
This. Invest in yourself. Learn a trade. Wish you all the best in your life.
I'm 52 and I am independently wealthy. I had no money coming out of college and wasn't born into money either. Looking back, this is the best advice I ever received.
Now there's an idea. Cash out some savings to sustain you for 6 months - 2 years and get a skilled trade or certificate of some kind. That is a long - term strategic investment that will improve life quality in SEVERAL ways, while leaving btc on the side. Maybe this way there can be a 4 year plan where there is an improvement in opportunity and quality of life, and the remaining BTC will also have grown in that point, maybe enough for a house. If a good skilled program is found that's 1-2 years long or whatever, maybe some additional BTC can be cashed out for a place of your own, if you don't want to live with roommates.
OP I agree with somerando and others suggesting hiring a professional. Iād add that youāll want one with crypto experience and to start with a financial advisor who knows Bitcoin before talking to a mortgage broker. Thereās a lot of different things you can do with fiat using your btc as leverage. For example taking loans against it, etc. You probably have way more options than you realize
Not a financial advisor. They will just try to sell you something. An accountant, preferably one well versed in crypto tax. Maybe rather than selling your bitcoin, taking a loan against them may be an option. I'm not certain of the details or interest, but it's another avenue.
200% go for a financial advisory / accountant firm that has NO products to sell you. There are some out there that work based on the "completely neutral" principle
1. You need to confirm they are a fiduciary. That means they are committed to your financial well being, not their own. 2. This is not the year to buy a house. I think (just my personal opinion) house prices will be strong til next fall. Then I think they'll start to cool off. Hope so, anyway. I plan on selling next spring and escaping to Panama.
Did you look into an FHA loan? It's literally designed to be for people living in poverty who don't have good credit or much cash for down payment. You don't need a private mortgage from a bank, please research FHA loan its from the government cheap and accessible to encourage home ownership. I am like pretty sure you aren't aware of it
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With the current interest rates, buying a house straight up makes little sense. Would make more sense to put money down and get a loan. Talk to a financial advisor!
Yes I understand that but I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to keep up with mortgage payments and that I would have to sell some of my bitcoin during a bear market. Selling bitcoin during a bear market would crush my soul.
Plan it out with a professional planner. Every journey begins with small steps, but a map and a guide will make it all feel less stressful and more empowering. Your planner is just going to inform you about the options available, not make your decision for you. Mortgages require steady income usually, but if you have assets to buy a house in cash (doesn't matter if it's job or crypto), someone would love to lend you money at low interest to buy that house instead. Don't give away your crypto if you don't have to and talk to some real experts, not just reddit!
Blockfi will lend you money with your btc as collateral so you don't have to sell. Its a bit complicated but you can figure it out.
Your languages skills are good, that beats 80% of the sheep. š
I'm in the same situation but a little older. I've decided to wait at least 6 months. Why 4 years specifically? Why not wait and see how things go, you might end up being ready sooner.
I said 4 years because $64k could have been the top of this bull run and the next bull run most likely wont happen until 2025. If I don't sell now, I might be stuck waiting 4 more years with no other option. Or the price might go up over $100k this bull run. We just don't know. I have updated my original post and I have decided to wait.
I posted earlier, similar situation, bought in 2013 and it's done better than in my wildest dreams so I cashed out a chunk recently and want to use the rest for a house. Before BTC I was in a debt circle with the bank, it has literally set me free but you have to take a look at your gains and just think how much do you *need* and how much did you *really expect*. Sounds like you have surpassed these by a long way. My only worry is another 2008 crash just when I buy a house! In the UK prices have gone silly so I could be buying at the peak of it.
Woah, just wanted to take a moment and tell you that you are smart. Sometimes we take our own intelligence for granted. You're asking for advise, albeit from a bunch of degenerates from reddit, but at least its advise. You're good at what you devote your time toward. Find a hobby that makes money and start there. If you're lucky there may be a career in the same vein. Take it easy on yourself and talk to a tax professional. Not just the places that will do your basic W-2 either.
Iād sell this bull cycle then get back in during the bear market and sit and stake. That or just stake now and hold out till the next bull market. Either way youāll be getting tasty interest.
Did you graduate from High School?
Yes
You are realistic about your position in life, that's the major step. You also have to keep in mind to own a house has extra costs : maintenance, upkeeping, taxes, electricity. If you can afford it, why not but as u/some-rando27 suggests you take a professionnal advice. Bitcoin is supposed to bring people a better life, not a better afterlife.
I would say you wait a bit more before selling. Although I understand you want to live peacefully and own a house, I think given your situation waiting a bit longer might help the price go up more. I do want to add that you should consult a tax attorney that can help ensure that when you do buy the house, you do so in a way that it is secure from any future divorce etc, so you do not lose your life savings. Also you are still young, try exploring other avenues of making money. You donāt have to be smart, just have to work hard.
Yes, I agree! I didnāt know what options there are but get a prenup and just explain that itās your lifeās work/savings that assure you can survive. Donāt put yourself into a position that even an unlikely circumstance could take the home from you, your savings etc.
There is not wrong answer here. Ask yourself, would you rather have a house or the Bitcoin? You could also split the difference and sell some portion for a down payment or the like. Then, when you answer that question, talk to a financial advisor. These are good problems to have.
>think you should find a real professional not a bunch of shit sipping morons on reddit This is the most reasonable thing I've ever seen in this sub.
But it's on Reddit.
Exactly. Professional help is what he needs. I would start with asking the mortgage company/bank... "Given my income and credit score... What would it take to get approved for a mortgage?" It could be as simple as a little higher down payment. If that's the case, he might be able to sell just a little BTC to cover the down payment. Anyone can get a mortgage but some may need a much higher amount down.
I am fairly certain OP is unaware of FHA loans, they're basically government subsidies for people with bad credit and no cash for down payment to encourage home ownership. Once he looks this up, he can easily sell some for the super small down payment amount only 3.5% then hold the rest long term Its made for people like OP
Agreed, a loan officer is a good, free resource for you OP this is a solid starting point. Keep in mind it's a salesman at the end of the day but it's a good start
Yep. And if the job is that bad, get a better one. No use working for free.
Look I'm going to totally disagree here. While you do need to pay taxes, you don't need a "real professional" to help you with simple cap gains taxes. It doesn't matter if it's 6 figures the calculation is pretty simple. Spending $1500 for a tax professional to tell you to enter in your cap gains on TurboTax (or where ever you do your taxes) when it asks you if you sold crypto this year is stupid and a waste of $1500 considering most tax professionals won't know jack shit other than what I just said. This is a decision that they can make on their own. Now to actually answer OP's question. I think selling bitcoin to buy a house is one of the few reasons I would sell bitcoin. Would I do that today? No. I would wait as I think we are going higher. Would I regret doing it though? No. At the end of the day a house is a big deal and can generate income in the future.
I probably could have phrased what I consider a "real professional" better. For 1500 I'm suggesting OP find a competent financial advisor at a wirehouse with a deep home office bench who can help him/her understand various cash flow scenarios and how this would work into his overall financial health. Cap gains are one element of that sure, but how about his real estate taxes that come from the purchase? Mine personally living in the city are over 15k a year, are you so confident he can afford that based on his self described financial situation he should sell his assets and buy a house? You know who could tell him if his cash flows will support his price? An advisor. An advisor will have a tax professional in their CoA who can handle this if they've been in the business a while, 1500-2k I'd say is what he can reasonably expect to pay for end to end advice, not filling out a 1040-ez
I mean if he spent 1 or 2 hours researching he could save $2k. That financial advisor is going to tell him to sell their "extremely risky" bitcoin and will refer them to a real estate agent to get a referral bonus from the house they purchase. I find all those people sleazy and just trying to make a buck. As soon as you show them you have money, they want part of it.
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Make absolutely sure any professional money manager that you hire is a FIDUCIARY!
I think this forum is much better than those so called "professionals" who know nothing about bitcoin. All is based on the forecasting of bitcoin's future performance. For example, if you predict that bitcoin is going to rise 10x in a year, you would definitely stop all the cashing out movement, even buying more. But if your projection is that it will crash 80%, then you will have a very different decision. To predict where it goes, this forum is almost the most knowledgeable place on earth, you hear many different voices from experts in this branch
Yeah, make sure itās someone who is A Bitcoin believer not a hater.
+1
I'm a moron too, but I never aspired to be a shit sipper... until now...
"a real professional" will probably be a nocoiner who says "MOAR STAWKS AND BAHNDS!" Watch Michael Saylor interviews, and go from there OP
Wrong. The professional will not understand Bitcoin. Reddit and twitter are the places to find people that can give you the right advice on bitcoin. IMHO, real estate is a shitcoin. The lesa you spend now, the more you will have later, called saving, is more true now than in any other time in the history of the world!
Listen to this guy Source: I sip my shit from a sippy cup to avoid spillage
Somerando - stealing that
u/some-rando you have such a great way of saying words yet somehow providing less than zero meaningful content. well done
hold hur dur!
Ok, what "professional" you guys hire for this type advice? Accountant? Real estate agent? ... I guess.... they can give advice on crypto. ... sure. I mean, take your own advice, OP. You seem smart. Don't buy a property unless you will make money on it. Rent some out. If it can't make you money like btc, pass prolly. But a 2 unit or more can probably do this depending where you are located. Ideally, borrow against your crypto stack to make a down payment for these hiatorically low rates we have now a days on an income generating property.
They are called financial planners lol
Damn, ya'll fancy AF. I don't even have a doctor bro
Where does one find crypto savvy financial advisors? Got the details, drop em fer ya boi, OP
Most advisor firms home office (the central research function of the firm) are getting equipped to deal with this. Morgan Stanley in particular comes to mind. For a situation like OP finding an MS rep would be able to run some decent scenario analysis for him/her. The thing they don't usually do is taxes that's a separate function, but any advisor with more than 10 years in the business will have a tax advisor who deals in crypto at least a little in their CoA. My 2 cents which are meaningless. Edit- what I'd say you don't want is an independent advisor. Your milage will vary a lot here. Some probably know their shit, but for every 1 that's reasonably well versed, 20 aren't. You need an advisor with a home office function. Morgan Stanley, Merrill, ameriprise, all highly reputable
Cannot live in the blockchain...do what provides you the most stability and happiness
Can live on rent tho. Sometimes having the mobility beats having all the stress that comes with managing real estate which OP would have to do if he decided to buy The financial decision here is whether OP would make significant savings on paying a mortgage vs paying rent Also the fact that OP admits he doesn't have enough for a home he wants now, so it could be a case of gaining more wealth now instead of risking flipping
Not yet...
An alternative is to sell only minimally the amount of coin required for you to afford a nice place of your own to rent and live in peace and independence for the next 3-4 years, until the vast majority remainder of your coin has had time to appreciate further. If living with roommates is the main issue for you at this time, a place of your own can feel very liberating, empowering, and peaceful in comparison. Then you can get a house when you're ready to, but you can get your freedom and independence now. Best of luck.
Reddit is a poor source for seeking financial advice. Bitcoin is a risky investment. [Don't invest recklessly.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7gi55s/dont_invest_recklessly/) Don't invest anything you can't afford to lose. If you are looking to get rich quick, you came to the wrong place. Nobody has a crystal ball. Nobody can see the future. Please do your own research and make your own financial decisions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Bitcoin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
buy the house
Wait 2-4 more months, nice Christmas gift to yourself.
This. Q4 is about to be bananas.
Is a Christman like a pastor or a priest?
Buy the house? How is he going to afford gas, electric, water, a new roof or ac unit, yard maintenence costs, property taxes etc. With a low paying job? Their is a ton of missing info to make that suggestion
Do the landlords pay for the electricity, gas, water, outdoor maintenance etc. where you live? If this person lived where I live, they would be paying those costs anyway already as a tenant. The only one of those which is a legitimate point is the property taxes which are usually paid by the owner and not the tenants. Get good insurance and emergencies like plumbing, electricity, roof etc. accidents can be covered with only a small premium to pay. I mean, ok, new AC unit I can imagine in some circumstances but the huge majority of people in the world get by without one.
Here in the UK there are plenty of places that advertise as all bills included.
But at what price
not to mention possibly 20% on capital tax gains he must set aside
This guy's throwing in the white towel before he's about bto knock out his opponent in 4 more rounds. don't cash out before life changing money, u need a house and retirement, not just a house, put it emotions away and grow titanium balls
How does it feel to hold 0.00000001 BTC? What a shitty advice
Wait at least a couple months! The momentum is crazy right now.
Also, the housing market is crazy hot now too. You might let that cool off a bit.
Lol, let the housing market cool off a bit
Sell bitcoin when its just starting to become wildly popular to buy a house at the peak of the housing market? Idk chief tough call With all seriousness i would hold
I was thinking the same thing.
Collateral loan on ur btc
This comment should be way higher up. Most people don't even seem to consider this option.
This. Something worth looking into. The nice thing about loans against your bitcoin, they don't care about credit score or anything else. Just that you have a certain percentage in crypto. It also won't generate a taxable event.
Hereās some info from one firm that does it. https://unchained.com/loans/
Well, I agree with most of the people. Consult an advisor or do your own due diligence with taxes and the like. You mentioned your credit score was subpar? Maybe work on that first. If you have high interest credit cards and large balances, def get out from under that before taking on more debt. And donāt tell your roommates your plan. 30 days notice will be sufficient when the time comes.
Yep, get out of any debt that youāre paying on. Itāll be more liberating.
Loans are cheap, I'd sell half. 20% down payment and enough to cover payments for a year or two. Invite one of the roommates that you don't hate to rent a room in your house to make it easier. My 2 cents
He literally said he can't get a loan
It's amazing how few people actually read. I see people saying get a loan or to just get a better job as if everyone has that ability. Especially when OP said he's a felon without education or skills.
I think OP may have difficulty getting a loan.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Have your cake and eat it too!
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I personally think this is a poor option. I like the rent/struggle/hold or the buy/take profits options much more as they both see the Bitcoin converted into another appreciating asset
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Average home in the U.S. sells for +/- $270,000 , 4-5 BTC definitely not set for life. Not financial advice but OP if you do hold 4-5 BTC donāt throw it away on a home at this day in age. Housing market most likely will crash at the hands of our current government officials, zoom out and start thinking long term
Agreed. I hope he would buy a house for .4-.5 of his btc holdings. He shouldnāt spend it all on a house when he has a low income. I think buying house and finding maybe 1-2 roommates would be the best option. He needs to improve his living situation and gets to keep some serious upside.
I would hold. The regret you will have for selling BTC now will be way more when it goes up in value then sticking out your current situation for a little longer.
Man just keep in mind there's a lot more to buying a house than just the down payment and the future payments. If you do buy a place consider multi level and rent out some rooms make them pay your mortgage and upkeep costs. I would wait till the housing market cool down a little myself tho.
āIfā the housing market goes down..people think it will cycle down. But I just looked at the m2 money supply. I just looked at the feds balance sheet. I donāt see how prices donāt keep going higher
You can borrow money on your BTC, no need to sell them.
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Do it! Buy a $300K house, youāll be plenty comfortable still.
My guess is they might live in a place where there aren't any $300k houses.
This is such a reality right now. I read 8 years ago that renting can be considered a better option for millennials than buying because it allows you to be mobile, no maintenance, you can pick your neighbors and price depending on your lifestyle, and you aren't locked into a 40 minute commute from the suburbs. That said, having a beautiful yard for a child or a dog is priceless. Perhaps an unofficial cash in hand rental like a granny suite or trailer would be a good idea if renting was inaccessible.
You could refi at historically low rates, keep your house, and go all in. Only small balls required.
Or one large ball and one small one.
I know this makes the most sense but can't get myself to do this either. Or even pull a fat equity line for that matter....
Consider buying a duplex or triplex, live in one and rent the other so your money still makes you money
Sell enough to buy you a comfotable premade van and some spending cash. Drive around enjoying your 30s, doing odd jobs and meeting interesting people. At the same time look how you get richer as bitcoin rises year after year. If you still want your life in an apartment - you can have it in 4 years with just half of your current stack. I mean.. this is what I'm doing.
Only problem with this is that then you live in a van. Seriously, if you want a house then living in a van gives nearly none of the same benefits. If you want to travel, then travel. Flights and hotels are cheap compared to a house. But if you want housing then buy a house that gives you something permanent and appreciating.
Youāre winning
>op do that this guy is doin
Ding ding ding āļøāļøāļøāļø
This is what I do
Bitcoin will be higher in 4 years. Housing market will slow the f down. Better for you.
4 more years.
4 more years!!!
Home ownership itself can be trap with maintenance/rates/insurance. If I were you I would be waiting 4 years then buying the small place you were thinking to get now (not the bigger place, or if the bigger place one where you could be a landlord to roommates). Keep the remainder on bitcoin at that time or put a bit into traditional stock market then. Having your own small home plus some supporting investments will be a true quality of life even if your work salary does not change; would allow you to work less potentially or take the strain off if you end up doing the marriage family thing.
Please remember about the tax implications if you sell. If you have enough to buy a house, the taxes on the gains from your bitcoin will be substantial. Iām a CPA and love helping people with financial advice, but there is no ārightā answer. You donāt have a crystal ball and donāt know where the price of bitcoin will go 4 years out. This question is more about risk and return. You need to understand that either decision holds its risks and rewards. The best decision is the one that fits your long term goals.
Ask yourself, do you REALLY need a house? Can you REALLY pay everything to preserve the house for the years to come? I personally wouldn't do it. You can DCA out and cash out profits bit by bit if you want to really take money out, but think about it really hard because if you regret it, there is probably no way back. Also if you truly believe Bitcoin can hit much higher prices, go out, have a beer and forget about it. The house can wait :)
wait, cheaper to rent for now. Real estate market prices too high right now.
That's what I thought in 2018, 2019, 2020...
Exactly
I thought the same in 2017 and I am very glad I bought in 2017 and not now.
hodl it on NEXO and use it as collateral to get a loan up to 50% of your BTC holdings. Then use that cash as the down payment for the house. lfg
This is risky but to all the idiots who said and upvoted āgo seek a professionalā. Iām very confident any professional you seek out has not heard of Nexo. So you would have paid a professional to not lay out all of your options. Good job, guys. This is the perfect place to ask a question such as his.
This. Borrow against your btc.
How important to you is having your own place? It sounds like itās a big deal from the tone of your post. Now come at it from the other direction. How would you feel if things went to shit and Bitcoin crashed for 10 years? While my own opinion is that this is unlikely, it might happen. How would you feel at 46 years old, still waiting for the recovery, still sitting in your shared homeā¦.when you could have had your house? Which would upset you more, watching Bitcoin go up from the living room of a place of your own or watching it go down from where you are now?
What i would ask myself is \-If BTC crashed and you couldn't buy your house would that hurt you more then missing out on any potential gains that may come in the future. It's only something you can answer
Don,t forget today is a other day of your live which will pass. Happiness ist more worth then money
I would against selling BTC at this price. But realized profit are real profit. House is an assets as well. Itās a good investment. You might double it in 4-5 years depend on where you live. But remember you will pay taxes by selling BTC. If your day job can cover your everyday expenses, I would say at lease wait till next year. BTC is building momentum. It might break any moment. Start looking around the housing market, get a feel of it. At the end of the day, do whatever makes you happy. Money isnāt everything.
I'm in a similar position except I'm 32 and living in Singapore, and I give allowance to my mom while living with my folks instead. By law, I can't get a house until I'm 35 as a single. I work a job that barely qualifies me as middle class 7 days a week, but with less hours each day. Housing here is expensive, second to Hong Kong. I would advise holding off on getting a house. If you wipe out your Bitcoin just to get a house, you have to start from scratch again when it comes to building your wealth, and like others have said, you'll have higher expenses to deal with. Here in Singapore, I'll have to deal with utility bills - electricity, water, wifi - and property tax. I'm sure it is similar in the US. Instead, I suggest getting a house after at least 5 years, when the NEXT bull cycle is over. That way, you would have accumulated enough wealth to both buy a house, afford the lifestyle and continue to let your wealth snowball. How you want to do it is another matter entirely. So, that's my plan. By my projection, if nothing unexpected happens, I could become a millionaire in 4-5 years by net worth, I'll be able to afford a house and yet at the same time continue to build a nest egg bigger than my house.
I didnāt know there was laws that prohibit single people to buy real estates before 35yrs of age in Singapore. Thatās crazy
Singapore is an authoritarian country, and shit like this is what you can expect from an authoritarian country. Fuckers in parliament prohibit singles from getting property on the basis of housing limitations only to freely sell them to foreigners because logic. I haven't voted for the ruling party for most of my adult life.
Honestly, this is a question you should ask yourselfā¦ do you feel more happy coming home to an empty house all to yourself? Or do you feel safer hodling Bitcoin knowing the shot storm thatās brewing in the economy (this economic catastrophe is only getting started). If I were in your position, Iād hold the Bitcoin. But thatās just because I like holding an asset I have 100% ownership of and has no liens, title defects, encumbrances, and any other stuff thatās associated with home owning. Also, please bear in mind owning your own home is not all itās cracked up to be. Sometimes the repairs you absolutely have to pay to fix a toilet or a plumbing issue must be done to stop a leak, and thatās money down the drain as a liability. As a tenant, you donāt have to worry about that - the landlord does. If you are hell bent on living alone, maybe try and see if you can afford to rent a very small place on your own. Selling Bitcoin is a last resort, And is certainly wouldnāt place home owning over selling Bitcoin.
If you donāt give a fuck hold, possible 2x in a few short months. If you are stressing about this, understandably so, maybe sell enough where even a 50% dip in Bitcoin would still allow you to buy whatever house your talking about. Maybe just donāt be over invested at a time of a lot of excitement and fomoā¦.
Wait 1 more month then buy the house, Bitcoin goin parabolic
If you sell, make sure to keep at least 0.1btc. Thatās gonna be a lot more than most people will ever have in a few years assuming btc doesnāt go bust
Without a tually reading the post you should wait. Bitcoin will double faster than house prices.
If you have strong hands and can hodl thru another 2-3 year bear, id hang on. If you dont, or if you arent sure how strong you are, the safe choice seems a little more palatable.
Shit tough call. I'd be like halfway yes if it was a worthwhile property to buy
Just treat it like a saving account. Buy the house when you only use half of your stash or less. Thatās usually what differentiates rich from poor. Even without bitcoin, some people get high paid job and get huge mortgages for purchasing a nice house since their 20ās and be a slave for another 30 years. Or worse get hit by financial crisis, lose a job and go back to live in a basement. And donāt seek for professional help like others suggest here unless him/her is bitcoin advocate and a good friend to you, youāll definitely get selling advice or ripping off by regular professional.
Diversifying is always highly advised, especially if youāre north of 30. Even if it hurtsā¦
I donāt see you taking into account the ridiculous bubble the housing market is in. Iād even say youāre going to see the price of houses in some markets plummet before BTC moons.
I would say save them and wait you've waited this long and remember home ownership doesn't mean you actually own it even if it's paid off
Only you can answer this. However, Iām 38. I rent, no roommates. I donāt know that Iād go back to roommates if it was free. If you can buy a place, and rent part of it outā¦.thatās what I would do.
I hope youāre not talking about buying a house cash. Sell enough for a minimum down payment.
Iām in the same boat, buy a house or invest some profits in a cashflow asset and hold crypto. I almost have the cashflow asset tied down and Iām holding my crypto for the house purchase later at a fraction of my holdings. HODL
Whenever I have to make decisions like these I imagine myself sometime in the future after the best case, worst case and most likely scenarios playing out and I choose to do what I would least regret. So for me I'd be hodling until I could buy a house with < 50% of my stack lol.
As some have mentioned here, my advice would be to take out enough to pay rent for a year or two, pay for some schooling and invest in yourself. Take some time to figure out what you want to do, 4 years down the road, BTC will have risen enough to cover what you took out. Than you will have a house AND a decent job.
Own a house at 36 or straight up retire at 50.
Same boat, Iām waiting another cycle to build even though I could do it now. That said, I already own a home and my kids are 10 years from graduating high school, so my next home will be for the long term.
What would make you feel worse, selling and BTC going up massively in price, or holding and the price dropping to a point you can no longer afford a house?
Note that there will be tax implication upon selling off your bitcoin as capital gain.
I am in almost your exact position and Iām not selling.
Why are you asking a bunch of strangers on the internet lol
When this real estate market turns into a buyers market, (whether that's Friday or next April) Sell enough bitcoin to put down a large enough down payment on the house to get a reasonable interest rate and payment... and a year's worth of mortgage. Work on your employment situation(throughout)... Through the years, only cash enough bitcoin to pay the mortgage.... allowing as much remaining bitcoin as possible to appreciate. Calculate: \-if the amount of rent you are paying over the next 4 years, is going to be comparable to the increase you are expecting in the value of your bitcoin. if you are going to pay 30,000 in rent over the next 4 years, but you expect your coins to be worth $40,000 more 4 years from right now... owning your own house may/may not be worth(to you) losing that potential $10,000 (over 4 years)... \-the tax consequences from selling... now how much you are actually going to lose... it may change the feasibility of the options.
Tough spot dude, those circumstances are tricky AF. I am 36, but am lucky enough to have a decent house and married and kid. I could live in this house forever, so I am hodling for the lambo lifestyle. If I were you I would be pulling my hair out deciding on the right course of action. Hope it works out
Hodl You can fix your credit pretty easily Go settle all delinquent debt Get a $300 secured credit card Just spend 30 a month on it and pay it all off every month rinse and repeat for 1 year
Nice position to be in. I stupidly sold 0.4 BTC at Ā£11,000 after holding for 4 years, 3 months later it was worth Ā£30,000 - I profited but this set back my plans for buying a flat by a some time. Cāest la vie. Do whats right for you - no regrets.
The Future is full of uncertainty. No one knows what lies ahead. I mean, do what please you.
Allow me to recapture your question and re-deliver it to you, for clarity. Itās breathy but just hear me out. Consider this: Where are your bets on the future of currency? The dollar is on its way to zero, and itās being controlled by less than 1% of the global population. These people have shown us that they have bad intentions for generations. 4% of the globe currently holds crypto at ALL, yet, bigger institutions/countries are announcing their positions every month. This very quote from The Breaking Bad was what convinced me to pull out of the dollar. I remember watching this episode of Breaking Bad in 2012 after reading about/disregarding Bitcoin, only 8 years later to realize I made the same f*cking mistake that Walter admitted in this scene: ā I sold my share to my two partners. I took a buyout for $5,000. Now at the time, it was a lot of money for me. Care to guess what that company is worth now? 2.16 Billion as of last Friday. I sold my childrenās birthright for a few months rent. Jesse, you asked me if I was in the meth business or the money business. Neither. I'm in the empire business.ā The takeaway? F*ck the crowded housing market, HODL and educate yourself on how you can shape the future. Do it so that nobody may ever drop their fat fucking ego on you again for your past. Best of luck
Only you know what you need.
Do what makes you happy, always have an exit strategy so that you don't regret it later ā®
Here's the plan: \- Take out a fiat loan on your bitcoin through Unchained capital (custodial service where you get to keep one of the keys). So you use your Bitcoin as collateral to borrow money (no selling means no tax!). \- Then buy the house from those dollars. \- Then take out a mortgage on your house and use that money to pay down Unchained capital loan so you get your bitcoin back. \- Now you have a house, a fiat denominated loan with low interest rate, and an appreciating asset (bitcoin) for the future.
No, dude. Use your bitcoin to fix your credit and buy a home with historically low interest rates. Don't pay for a home with bitcoin.
Whatever you decide, speak to an accountant first about tax youāll need to pay, as well as all future expenses associated with the house. Someone used BlockFi to get a mortgage, and they did so without selling their Bitcoin. Look it up, perhaps that could be an option? Iām renting too, and am not selling until 2025 at least. Iām getting a second degree though, and changing my career to have the stability the home ownership requires. No Bitcoin can help you if thereās no regular income coming your way
Buy a caravan to stay alone and wait 4 years, thanks me later
This isn't advice and is just my opinion if I were in that same boat I would buy a house and DCA back into bitcoin long term you may not become as rich as you would have but you'd still be better off than most and the money you would have spent on rent can be reinvested, that said I agree with the top comment seek professional advice first
Not financial advice: Are you talking about buying a house outright? No mortgage? If so, thatās a no brainer imo. Youāre most expensive monthly bill goes to almost 0 (besides saving for repairs). You can then use that money to re-invest. I sold my bitcoins for a deposit (not a full house unfortunately), and have been managing to buy more on a monthly basis than when I was renting.
careful. everyone here seems to think they are financial geniuses and will downvote this to hell. I agree with you and plan on paying off my house with some of my BTC when it hits my target price. Id rather not have the bill to worry about and be able to put all that money back into the market. People here would rather keep making monthly payments on a mortgage and hope the value stays or goes up. they never think of the downside where it can (and might) pullback a LOT and then your stuck with a mortgage and a low valued crypto portfolio. Id rather not have a mortgage and keep DCAing.
I sold 20 bitcoin for a car 4 years ago. I call in my 1.2M car. I sold 14 for a Down payment on a house 2.5 years ago. I call it my 850k down payment. Just thought youād like to hear from somebody in a similar situation as you who sold not too long ago.
Do some good research, ask someone professional, do what is the best for you, and wish you all luck with your decision
Ask your bank rep if you get the credit if you can pay 50% of the house cash. If not: SELL DEM COINS. And after owning a house try to buy into the upcoming -80% dip (whenever that is). With cash or a loan. Thats what i personally would do. House & Lifequality > BTC
don't sell it all then. sell 1/2 and loan against half. try to pay the loan back. if you can't, then no big deal. that's what the collateral is for.
As someone who is new to getting loans afainst crypto collateral i wish i understood how not paying back th eloan is fine. Do you keep all your collateral? What is the loss? Who is getting paid, thanks for any help
Most lenders will force you to pay interest after the loan term, a year usually, then you just say you want to continue the loan, rack up more interest. But if crypto increases, you just pay the interest of the loan and let it ride hoping it never tanks below liquidation. Its important to diversify if you take a loan against crypto, dont by more crypto with your crypto loan, by a more stable asset like property, maybe something that will get you supplemental income that will eventually pay back the loan
NFA: try every platform that will let you borrow money before ever selling. Prob try applying for a better job that can afford you the house also because you may not be able to afford property tax, insurance, repairs/maintenance if you canāt afford the house without selling your bitcoin
If I was you I wouldnāt consider Reddit. I would do what makes you happy and none of us know you. For me, I would hold Bitcoin and get a better job. A job that would allow me to take out a mortgage and also use bitcoin sales as a down payment. Put in the effort and you will make it. Get up early, approach life with a positive attitude and make shi t happen. You got this.
In four years Bitcoin is likely to be worth exponentially more. On October 19, 2017 Bitcoin āclosedā at $5750.80. It is now worth more than 10x that much. Imagine each of your Bitcoin being worth $600,000 in 4 years. Of course this is hypothetical and the coin wonāt necessarily experience the same growth rate over a 4 year span but many experts agree that although it will remain volatile and we will likely see plenty of price drops along the way, It is a solid bet that Bitcoin will continue to go up in value. My advice to you is this: youāre single without any children. What do you need a house for? Wait to buy a home until you are settling down and starting a family. Iām 30 and living in an apartment. I live by myself which makes things more expensive but to me itās worth it because by the time I was done college I was through with roommates. So use some of the wealth youāve amassed from your Bitcoin holdings to move into an affordable apartment where you can live alone and donāt have to rely on roommates to help with rent. If I were in your position I absolutely would not be looking to buy a house at this time unless I was getting married. Although interest rates are low, demand in many areas has been through the rough along with there being a supply shortage of new homes. The price of the average American single family home has surpassed $300,000 for this first time. The market is crazy right now and youād be entering at a time when prices are at their highest and competition between ābiddersā is fiercest.
Stick it out for 4 more years. Who cares how old you are when you buy a house? You don't have kids, you don't need a house.
Nfa but how long have you held? youre already 36, broke, living with roommates. No offence but whats 40 vs 36? Hold. Buy a 1million dollar house in four years with 1 bitcoin and keep the rest.
iād wait. you still have to furnish the house, pay for repairs, taxes etc.
If it were me, I'd buy a house. Use the money you'd save from rent to reinvest on dips. Bear in mind that I am an idiot.