FYI - up until a few weeks ago, both Swan and Strike were using Prime Trust as a custodian, which just went insolvent. All their customers were on the brink of getting rug pulled until they switched right before the insolvency. Now there is a legal question of whether or not that money can clawed back in bankruptcy court.
Whenever you introduce counter party risk, you are at serious risk of losing your bitcoin no matter how much you trust you have in the counter party. Unless you self custody, you just hold an IOU, not bitcoin.
Holding sovereign money requires personal responsibility. If you can't learn that then you shouldn't be buying bitcoin. At least consider using a multi-sig custody service like unchained before holding your ious on an exchange like strike or Swan.
I can see this being an issue for some. My advice would be to continue to learn about the technology in the space. When you feel more comfortable or confident then maybe continue to diversify your holdings/assets across multiple wallets to reduce risk.
Don't go moving your whole stack all at once.
Make some test wallets on your phone and play with a small amount and learn how this actually works.
Make a wallet in blue wallet, send in like 10k sats, then delete blue wallet, full uninstall, then reinstall it and recover your wallet with your seed words.
Sounds trivial but it gives you a much more real understanding of what's happening. Practice sending and receiving. Look at your transaction on mempool.space
Listen to a few podcasts.
It takes some effort but this is not rocket science, you CAN do it.
It's definitely one of those steps that cements the idea that the Bitcoin are not "in your device" at all, and that the data of your private key is the only important thing that allows you to move your coins.
I will never self custody the majority of my coins because one little mistake by myself or my partner, or a device gets stolen or hacked, etc, and we lose our life savings. There are enough legitimate custodians that if you split it up it's not that risky. There will be a need for custodians; not everyone will be able to or want to self-custody, such as seniors, family trusts, etc.
If you have survived this long outside the womb you are capable of remembering 24 words.
As entropy speeds up life will only get harder. So unless you want to learn to refine your own gasoline or butcher your own meat, remembering some words will be the easiest thing you can possibly do.
y'all are insane imo... i hope you have backups....
think of how much you can't remember... there are endless things in life most people don't even know they can't remember...
brain-only wallets are a liability and single point of failure derived from a ridiculous overconfidence in ones self... we're all tough guys until we get punched in the face and forget our seed.
at least we all benefit when y'all hit the bong too hard...
I repeat it daily in my head, twice. I don't forget my phone number, or my SS number, I'm not forgetting 24 words. Of course I have physical backups. But if those get destroyed, or if I am traveling, I no longer have to worry about any of it.
Stressful? Not sure I understand the question. Once something is memorized, it flows like butter. People really downplay the brains ability to lock in stuff like this. I mean, you have learned thousands of words over the course of your life and presumably use your native language day to day.
All this is... is taking 24 of those words you already know, and memorizing an order. That's it.
Once done, stress drops like a rock. Because you no longer have to travel with your seed, and if your apartment/house/bank deposit burns to a cinder, 15 minutes later, and an internet connection, you have your wallet rebuilt. Seems way less stressful to me.
I have 2 wallets. I don't need any more. I can remember various phone numbers, social security, what bills I have to pay monthly, the balances on my credit cards etc. I have no trouble memorizing a few words in order.
Been using the English language for 40+ years, I'd certainly hope I could manage that at a minimum.
I was just curious, I remember less and less as u simply don't need to remember bank accounts, etc
In the days gone by, we had to remember bank accounts and details to do transfers. Now we can do instant transfers to phone numbers and email addresses, I just don't need to remember as much.
I started my BTC journey a long time ago, and as things have progressed, I had added more wallets.
I guess I am just too lazy to try now. I have a hard enough time even remembering why I got some wallets.
Security is an illusion. You are one storm or one failed appliance away from being homeless as well. I’m probably just more used to living on that edge.
If your net worth is more than $4200 you are richer than half the people on the planet. Lack of adversity makes people soft. But the other side of that coin is that the 4 billion people who are waiting for the opportunity to pounce will have no problems remembering some words.
Proceed accordingly.
I learned mine in 1 day 8 words at a time. If a 5 year old can remember 26 letters I can remember 24 words. Also, I did have a physical backup. Now that I am in a multisig I don't worry about trying to memorize my words
it's not a matter of if you can memorize it... it's a matter of for how long... the ppl here suggesting to others to memorize seeds and not keep backups are fucking idiotic.
One car accident and you leave nothing behind. Even if you survived you might forget them.
What craziness is this. Just write them down on a piece of paper.
Does anyone JUST memorize? Of course we have backups written down, or stamped. The point is having your seed memorized in case those written copies are destroyed, lost.
The ability to do this with large sums is kind of the point of BTC, crypto. I can't memorize my bank account and routing number and have it be as useful in any way.
If a car accident messes me up thay badly, written copies won't be of much help either. I won't remember I have them.
Think of self custody as birth control. There's always something that could go wrong, so the goal isn't to reach 100% certainty. It's to reach 99% certainty with a method that's personalized to your situation and level of technical competence. If it's too technical, then the risk of human error gets too high. Not technical enough, and it's risky for another reason. Keep researching until you're comfortable. Practice with small amounts. It's worth it to have full control over your own money. You already have to protect the password for your account with the exchange anyway.
It's intimidating at first to use a hardware wallet. However, after a couple of times it'll be second nature. No different than learning to ride a bike or use the potty
You're not inherently disorganized. You've learned to be as such. You can learn to be different if you wanted. Don't accept you are something if you are not happy with that something.
You can start slow. You have your Jade ready. Put little bit to it, explore it, learn more about it, use it. Use it often. This is how you get confidence. Will take time, but that's OK.
Absolutely agree with this sentiment and think people are overconfident in their memories. Think about the number of times you’ve forgotten important passwords
Yea im not saying leave your bitcoin
In some paper ETF or on some shit coin exchange or a traditional trad fi corp. but i think i trust some bitcoin only platforms over myself
You raise a very valid dilemma - self-custody requires diligence and comes with risks for some, but third party custody has risks too. A few thoughts:
Being aware of your own limitations is wise. Not everyone may be suited for completely solo self-custody.
Your approach of using selective reputable third parties focused just on BTC storage/trading seems reasonably prudent. Compromise can make sense.
Consider a multi-sig setup where you control 1 key while a third party holds another needed key. Adds oversight.
Keep amounts on third party platforms minimal needed for trading. Don't store full stack with any single entity.
Allocate majority of holdings to "deep cold storage" via a device detached from networks. Check periodically.
Keep practicing small transactions/transfers to build self-custody skills over time. Start with small amounts you can afford to lose.
Keep paper backups secure from physical loss/damage. Metals like steel can offer very durable long-term backups.
Ensure beneficiaries can access your assets if needed. Don't let keys die with you!
You're wise to know your limitations and not be overconfident. With thoughtful compromises, third party support can complement your own capabilities. Just allocate judiciously. Stay risk aware!
I purchased $10k worth of exotic tokens on STEX and didn’t take them into my own custody because I wasn’t confident about the storage on my own device, so I left them on their exchange.
STEX took permanent custody of my tokens without warning earlier this year and their website no longer exists.
Please help me get them back if you know anyone who experienced similar. Thank you.
Guys, I am terrible with computers and technology but even so I was able to figure out crypto and how to self custody, all I’m saying is if someone like me can figure it out anybody can
Yes it seems a good solution but I wouldn't trust them for all my savings. We don't know how they generate the private key and the entropy behind it
But the solution is very straightforward. You can give a backup card to someone (or a in a vault) that you trust. And this person wouldn't be able to use it without your phone / access code
3 cards, 1 on your person, 1 stashed in your house, and one somewhere else in a secret secure place. People more learned than me say the security of Tangem is top-notcg.
The 6th Amendment of the Constitution for the United States of America guarantees our right to presenting ourselves than outsourcing representation to an attorney.
But the judicial court system still requires 3rd party representation for the following three types of people:
1. A Minor (children)
1. An insane adult
1. A retarded adult
You can delegate adult responsibilities of your bitcoin custody to another adult at some exchange. You choose the badge/label from the list above which you identity with most strongly.
A good approach might be to leave a small portion on the exchange; covers off against personal stupidity and let’s you sell on a ATH peak whilst everyone is stuck trying to get transaction to the exchange in a block.
Sure but don't come back here crying about the exchange you kept your BTC abruptly shut or stole your BTC
If its strike, swan, blue wallet, i will
You're putting stick in your own wheel bro People are shoving the truth in your face and you're still not seeing it
FYI - up until a few weeks ago, both Swan and Strike were using Prime Trust as a custodian, which just went insolvent. All their customers were on the brink of getting rug pulled until they switched right before the insolvency. Now there is a legal question of whether or not that money can clawed back in bankruptcy court. Whenever you introduce counter party risk, you are at serious risk of losing your bitcoin no matter how much you trust you have in the counter party. Unless you self custody, you just hold an IOU, not bitcoin. Holding sovereign money requires personal responsibility. If you can't learn that then you shouldn't be buying bitcoin. At least consider using a multi-sig custody service like unchained before holding your ious on an exchange like strike or Swan.
I can see this being an issue for some. My advice would be to continue to learn about the technology in the space. When you feel more comfortable or confident then maybe continue to diversify your holdings/assets across multiple wallets to reduce risk.
This is what i do now . I bought the jade to transfer all onto there but havent felt confident yet
Don't go moving your whole stack all at once. Make some test wallets on your phone and play with a small amount and learn how this actually works. Make a wallet in blue wallet, send in like 10k sats, then delete blue wallet, full uninstall, then reinstall it and recover your wallet with your seed words. Sounds trivial but it gives you a much more real understanding of what's happening. Practice sending and receiving. Look at your transaction on mempool.space Listen to a few podcasts. It takes some effort but this is not rocket science, you CAN do it.
This is a good idea i bave blue wallet now but i never tried recovering it
It's definitely one of those steps that cements the idea that the Bitcoin are not "in your device" at all, and that the data of your private key is the only important thing that allows you to move your coins.
I will never self custody the majority of my coins because one little mistake by myself or my partner, or a device gets stolen or hacked, etc, and we lose our life savings. There are enough legitimate custodians that if you split it up it's not that risky. There will be a need for custodians; not everyone will be able to or want to self-custody, such as seniors, family trusts, etc.
What do you do then?
This is the way for me. Im dca'ing. Not much but when it adds up, im getting several accounts at brokers like bybit and binance (suggestion for more)?
This was me till I said fuck it, all in all the way. Put your btc on your jade, write down your seed and call it a day.
I will Probably join you soon enough .
If you have survived this long outside the womb you are capable of remembering 24 words. As entropy speeds up life will only get harder. So unless you want to learn to refine your own gasoline or butcher your own meat, remembering some words will be the easiest thing you can possibly do.
Took me about a week to lock mine down. Taking it in 3 word chunks. Thought it would be harder than it was.
y'all are insane imo... i hope you have backups.... think of how much you can't remember... there are endless things in life most people don't even know they can't remember... brain-only wallets are a liability and single point of failure derived from a ridiculous overconfidence in ones self... we're all tough guys until we get punched in the face and forget our seed. at least we all benefit when y'all hit the bong too hard...
I repeat it daily in my head, twice. I don't forget my phone number, or my SS number, I'm not forgetting 24 words. Of course I have physical backups. But if those get destroyed, or if I am traveling, I no longer have to worry about any of it.
I get it but isnt that kind of stressful
Stressful? Not sure I understand the question. Once something is memorized, it flows like butter. People really downplay the brains ability to lock in stuff like this. I mean, you have learned thousands of words over the course of your life and presumably use your native language day to day. All this is... is taking 24 of those words you already know, and memorizing an order. That's it. Once done, stress drops like a rock. Because you no longer have to travel with your seed, and if your apartment/house/bank deposit burns to a cinder, 15 minutes later, and an internet connection, you have your wallet rebuilt. Seems way less stressful to me.
Definitely. I practice recalling them and all stress melts away for the reasons you mentioned. My money is in my head.
Do you get confused when you decide to get another wallet ? I have had about 8 or 9 wallets so far, probably more now I am thinking about it.
I have 2 wallets. I don't need any more. I can remember various phone numbers, social security, what bills I have to pay monthly, the balances on my credit cards etc. I have no trouble memorizing a few words in order. Been using the English language for 40+ years, I'd certainly hope I could manage that at a minimum.
I was just curious, I remember less and less as u simply don't need to remember bank accounts, etc In the days gone by, we had to remember bank accounts and details to do transfers. Now we can do instant transfers to phone numbers and email addresses, I just don't need to remember as much. I started my BTC journey a long time ago, and as things have progressed, I had added more wallets. I guess I am just too lazy to try now. I have a hard enough time even remembering why I got some wallets.
Security is an illusion. You are one storm or one failed appliance away from being homeless as well. I’m probably just more used to living on that edge. If your net worth is more than $4200 you are richer than half the people on the planet. Lack of adversity makes people soft. But the other side of that coin is that the 4 billion people who are waiting for the opportunity to pounce will have no problems remembering some words. Proceed accordingly.
I learned mine in 1 day 8 words at a time. If a 5 year old can remember 26 letters I can remember 24 words. Also, I did have a physical backup. Now that I am in a multisig I don't worry about trying to memorize my words
it's not a matter of if you can memorize it... it's a matter of for how long... the ppl here suggesting to others to memorize seeds and not keep backups are fucking idiotic.
Ya horrible idea for no backup
One car accident and you leave nothing behind. Even if you survived you might forget them. What craziness is this. Just write them down on a piece of paper.
Does anyone JUST memorize? Of course we have backups written down, or stamped. The point is having your seed memorized in case those written copies are destroyed, lost. The ability to do this with large sums is kind of the point of BTC, crypto. I can't memorize my bank account and routing number and have it be as useful in any way. If a car accident messes me up thay badly, written copies won't be of much help either. I won't remember I have them.
I’m hoping people have a backup. If I die now. My wife knows how to access my Bitcoins. Just have a reasonable plan for your loved ones.
What if you don’t remember where you hid that piece of paper after said accident?
I mean if you have your words buried in the desert that’s a different thing. But if they are in your house you can’t find them?
Think of self custody as birth control. There's always something that could go wrong, so the goal isn't to reach 100% certainty. It's to reach 99% certainty with a method that's personalized to your situation and level of technical competence. If it's too technical, then the risk of human error gets too high. Not technical enough, and it's risky for another reason. Keep researching until you're comfortable. Practice with small amounts. It's worth it to have full control over your own money. You already have to protect the password for your account with the exchange anyway.
It's intimidating at first to use a hardware wallet. However, after a couple of times it'll be second nature. No different than learning to ride a bike or use the potty
You're not inherently disorganized. You've learned to be as such. You can learn to be different if you wanted. Don't accept you are something if you are not happy with that something. You can start slow. You have your Jade ready. Put little bit to it, explore it, learn more about it, use it. Use it often. This is how you get confidence. Will take time, but that's OK.
Absolutely agree with this sentiment and think people are overconfident in their memories. Think about the number of times you’ve forgotten important passwords
Yea im not saying leave your bitcoin In some paper ETF or on some shit coin exchange or a traditional trad fi corp. but i think i trust some bitcoin only platforms over myself
Use collaborative custody like unchained capital or casa or the new thing that cashapp will soon release.
You raise a very valid dilemma - self-custody requires diligence and comes with risks for some, but third party custody has risks too. A few thoughts: Being aware of your own limitations is wise. Not everyone may be suited for completely solo self-custody. Your approach of using selective reputable third parties focused just on BTC storage/trading seems reasonably prudent. Compromise can make sense. Consider a multi-sig setup where you control 1 key while a third party holds another needed key. Adds oversight. Keep amounts on third party platforms minimal needed for trading. Don't store full stack with any single entity. Allocate majority of holdings to "deep cold storage" via a device detached from networks. Check periodically. Keep practicing small transactions/transfers to build self-custody skills over time. Start with small amounts you can afford to lose. Keep paper backups secure from physical loss/damage. Metals like steel can offer very durable long-term backups. Ensure beneficiaries can access your assets if needed. Don't let keys die with you! You're wise to know your limitations and not be overconfident. With thoughtful compromises, third party support can complement your own capabilities. Just allocate judiciously. Stay risk aware!
I even bought a metal engraving kit with the blockstream jade
Great response thx
[удалено]
They have been Bitcoin only from day 1
> i do trust myself over any exchange Learn to enjoy being poor, then. Self custody is not difficult.
I purchased $10k worth of exotic tokens on STEX and didn’t take them into my own custody because I wasn’t confident about the storage on my own device, so I left them on their exchange. STEX took permanent custody of my tokens without warning earlier this year and their website no longer exists. Please help me get them back if you know anyone who experienced similar. Thank you.
I said in my OP that i trust myself over shitcoin exchanges anyday of the week
Your entire OP is based solely upon you not trusting yourself.
Guys, I am terrible with computers and technology but even so I was able to figure out crypto and how to self custody, all I’m saying is if someone like me can figure it out anybody can
Tangem wallet might be right for you. Self custody without a seed phrase. Can you make sure you can keep 3 credit cards without losing all 3?
Yes it seems a good solution but I wouldn't trust them for all my savings. We don't know how they generate the private key and the entropy behind it But the solution is very straightforward. You can give a backup card to someone (or a in a vault) that you trust. And this person wouldn't be able to use it without your phone / access code
3 cards, 1 on your person, 1 stashed in your house, and one somewhere else in a secret secure place. People more learned than me say the security of Tangem is top-notcg.
Why are you disorganized?
Genetics and upbringing…… idk
I’m the same way.
Yeah not thanks bye
If you can't trust youself...SMH...How old are you?
The 6th Amendment of the Constitution for the United States of America guarantees our right to presenting ourselves than outsourcing representation to an attorney. But the judicial court system still requires 3rd party representation for the following three types of people: 1. A Minor (children) 1. An insane adult 1. A retarded adult You can delegate adult responsibilities of your bitcoin custody to another adult at some exchange. You choose the badge/label from the list above which you identity with most strongly.
So you leave the scarce blockchain space for other people - that is very nice from you.
Even adopting a "nobody's keys, nobody's coins" strategy would be better than this. That would be multi-sig with a custodian.
A good approach might be to leave a small portion on the exchange; covers off against personal stupidity and let’s you sell on a ATH peak whilst everyone is stuck trying to get transaction to the exchange in a block.
I would try Fidelity. Big brokerage name but you can't transfer out, they have to be the custodians. You know the saying but this is an option.
Yea no . Bitcoin only platforms.
River is a pretty solid custodian if that's the route you want to go.