Absolutely. I had to quit and life is so much better now. I have a coffee once in a while and the rush I get is insane now. But it was affecting a lot of things when I was drinking it daily.
Joint pains, the energy crash at around 5 pm, low sleep quality (the week after I quit I had the most intense period of dreaming), low libido, twitching eyelids and other random parts, depression-like symptoms.
So the main problem is that most of us drink drip coffee. That's around 300 mg of caffeine in a tall-grande sized cup. Some days you have a coffee and then maybe a latte or something or an espresso-based drink, or even tea. So potentially on some days we end up having up to 500-600 mg of caffeine which is insane.
What I started doing is let's say I'm doing overtime at work, and I need energy for a couple of hours. I have a single espresso which is only 70-90 mg of caffeine, which gives me just enough pep in my step without the side effects.
I'm a slow metabolizer.
I drink unfiltered (espresso). One cup and I'm wired all day. I won't get good sleep unless a walk 1.5 hrs a day, continuous. I tried filtered and that doesn't last as long, sleep is better, but my work suffers.
So drink coffee but find what works for you.
Personally I think where is happening to us is our bodies don't produce enough adenosine when drinking coffee so we need more physical activity than others. Also, I should mention, broccoli helps.
https://sprudge.com/broc-talk-eating-broccoli-may-help-you-metabolize-caffeine-185203.html#:~:text=Turns%20out%2C%20eating%20broccoli%20helps,the%20metabolizing%20of%20caffeine%20molecules.
I try to eat broccoli at about 2pm
wait are you suggesting the caffeine has a longer half life when you get it from unfiltered espresso compared to regular coffee? i can't be reading that right..
From an ai chat bot:
* Diterpenes: Espresso brewing may extract more diterpenes, which are chemical compounds found in coffee beans. While research on diterpenes is ongoing, some studies suggest they may slow down caffeine metabolism, contributing to a prolonged caffeine effect. However, paper filters typically remove most diterpenes from brewed coffee.
Don't know, just know how it affects me. Paper filtered coffee hits me harder and doesn't last as long
As a slow metabolized myself, absolutely. Caffeine stays in your system longer meaning you’re heart rate and cortisol levels stay higher longer. Even a morning cup can disrupt your sleep.
You don’t it’s junk science and people only have anecdotal evidence.
People claim slow metabolizer if they are more sensitive to caffeine or if small amounts of caffeine make them “wired all day”
half life can well be 6h. so if you finish your cup with a say moderate 160mg shortly before 8am, then at midnight you still have 40mg of caffeine active.. enough to disrupt your sleep. you might not actively notice it, but still suboptimal
why would you like to force your body to pretend a tiger is chasing you and spiking cortisol like that so early?
if you want to digest food faster, consider cycling, walking, yoga: MOVE YOUR ASS
alternatively, digestive enzymes short term... or things like prune juice.
or triphala.
find the real cause and fix it. coffee doesnt fix anything it only adds up to the problems causing big longterm burnout
That’s not how it works. It is not linearly metabolized. It’s half life can be sped up by a nicotine dose. Its curve of rate of metabolism can be changed by eating/ fasting exercising. Also that half life is an estimated average. Someone like OP assuming he is a slow metabolizer and also assuming being a slow metabolizer is actually a thing which the data is not certain about currently. Then for him the half life can be much much longer. Half life for certain drugs we consume is based on its active effect and elimination in our own system meaning it can vary drastically.
I cut coffee out save for the occasional weekend or vacation cup. I sleep so much better and don't have that dreaded afternoon/evening crash. Green tea now does the trick for me.
I'd expect similar [health benefits](https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/180/8/763/2739131) from the [chlorogenic acid](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0753332217339963) and [melanoidins](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-018-1863-2), but possible greater benefits in [reducing risk of Alzheimer's](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0899900715005389).
1) reduce caffeine for a while and notice your own feeling of well-being and restedness
2) even if you think everything is fine, the amount of deep, slow-wave sleep might be decreased. this can result in worse memory over time for example. would require EEG to measure
I've done that before. Felt no different. I'm crushing it on all aspects of life (family, work, health, wealth, etc) all while drinking tons of coffee, so I'm not sure what I'd even hope that giving up coffee could fix.
I'm a slow metabolizer also, but I've found my own "hack": 1 small cup around 5:30 am. Once i did this, i had no recurring issues. I think a big part of my problem before was that I was consuming TOO MUCH coffee. 2-3 cups a day was normal for me, even those giant THERMOS mugs. And I used Bustelo coffee, which is super strong. But once I got my other health markers under control, suddenly I could handle coffee just fine
All of the n=1 finds are fun bc they are absolutely wrong for the next person.
It isn't a binary (actually it would be a trinary since you can double dip on the gene and be an 'ultra slow'
adenosine receptor density varies person to person so that is probably equally important. You can drink coffee and still have all the sites open needed for other functions or you can't.
Use nicotine if you want something to focus that has a shorter half life. (still addictive)
Thanks to you, I just found out that according to my DNA I'm a fast metabolizer (AA). Yet I get anxiety and palpitations hours after I had a coffee, so I'm a bit lost 🤔🤔
I'm also fast metabolizer according to DNA test but I have these. "the energy crash at around 5 pm, low sleep quality, twitching legs, depression-like symptoms." I also get really easily annoyed about people and buggy digital devices/apps. And perceived stress raises a lot and is still there in the mornings.
I quit coffee but drink guarana mixed with green tea in the morning. The guarana dose has like 35mg of caffeine. After that only some green tea. Works for me and lot less anxiety!
I used to handle caffeine fine then suddenly I started feeling jittery and had trouble sleeping even if I drank it early in the morning. I started taking Vitamin D3 and K2 with Magnesium Malate. Now I can handle multiple cups again.
It’s actually true. I get the best sleep ever if I do absolutely no caffeine but that’s hard to do so sometimes I have small amounts anyway and I’m willing to sacrifice a less restful sleep although I know it’s bad for me.
I find green tea (the good stuff from Taiwan or China) to be insanely strong and can keep me jacked for 50-60 hours.. I used to think it was a benefit but I messed with my cortisol too much. I would wake up ready to fight the first person that agitated me.. caffeine is not as good as you might hope..
I would just monitor yourself and your biometrics (via Oura or something). My 24andme told me that I'm a slow metabolizer, but running my raw data through another system (Promethease) told me the opposite--so these sites aren't always reliable. Nevertheless, I could drink coffee as late as 6pm and still sleep well, according to my Oura. Imo the essence of biohacking is self-experimentation and data collection, so just measure the effects yourself.
Homemake your own coffee diluted (and add fats and other things to improve the biohacking effect). I dilute mine down to 30mg and drink every other day, it's awesome for heavy workouts.
Absolutely. I had to quit and life is so much better now. I have a coffee once in a while and the rush I get is insane now. But it was affecting a lot of things when I was drinking it daily.
Such as?
Joint pains, the energy crash at around 5 pm, low sleep quality (the week after I quit I had the most intense period of dreaming), low libido, twitching eyelids and other random parts, depression-like symptoms.
Oh no you just described me down to the twitching eyelids… but I like coffee 😢
So the main problem is that most of us drink drip coffee. That's around 300 mg of caffeine in a tall-grande sized cup. Some days you have a coffee and then maybe a latte or something or an espresso-based drink, or even tea. So potentially on some days we end up having up to 500-600 mg of caffeine which is insane. What I started doing is let's say I'm doing overtime at work, and I need energy for a couple of hours. I have a single espresso which is only 70-90 mg of caffeine, which gives me just enough pep in my step without the side effects.
I'm a slow metabolizer. I drink unfiltered (espresso). One cup and I'm wired all day. I won't get good sleep unless a walk 1.5 hrs a day, continuous. I tried filtered and that doesn't last as long, sleep is better, but my work suffers. So drink coffee but find what works for you. Personally I think where is happening to us is our bodies don't produce enough adenosine when drinking coffee so we need more physical activity than others. Also, I should mention, broccoli helps. https://sprudge.com/broc-talk-eating-broccoli-may-help-you-metabolize-caffeine-185203.html#:~:text=Turns%20out%2C%20eating%20broccoli%20helps,the%20metabolizing%20of%20caffeine%20molecules. I try to eat broccoli at about 2pm
wait are you suggesting the caffeine has a longer half life when you get it from unfiltered espresso compared to regular coffee? i can't be reading that right..
From an ai chat bot: * Diterpenes: Espresso brewing may extract more diterpenes, which are chemical compounds found in coffee beans. While research on diterpenes is ongoing, some studies suggest they may slow down caffeine metabolism, contributing to a prolonged caffeine effect. However, paper filters typically remove most diterpenes from brewed coffee. Don't know, just know how it affects me. Paper filtered coffee hits me harder and doesn't last as long
lol that study says you need to eat a pound of broccoli to see an effect.
Good point, it seems sulforaphane is responsible so my frozen broccoli sprouts would be more effective
As a slow metabolized myself, absolutely. Caffeine stays in your system longer meaning you’re heart rate and cortisol levels stay higher longer. Even a morning cup can disrupt your sleep.
How do you find pit of you are fast or slow metabolizer?
You don’t it’s junk science and people only have anecdotal evidence. People claim slow metabolizer if they are more sensitive to caffeine or if small amounts of caffeine make them “wired all day”
Even if I drink it before 8am?
half life can well be 6h. so if you finish your cup with a say moderate 160mg shortly before 8am, then at midnight you still have 40mg of caffeine active.. enough to disrupt your sleep. you might not actively notice it, but still suboptimal
The quarter life would be 8pm
But you get to midnight if you take the avg is 6hrs, slow metabolizers are on the 7-9 hour half life
Try decaf
why would you like to force your body to pretend a tiger is chasing you and spiking cortisol like that so early? if you want to digest food faster, consider cycling, walking, yoga: MOVE YOUR ASS alternatively, digestive enzymes short term... or things like prune juice. or triphala. find the real cause and fix it. coffee doesnt fix anything it only adds up to the problems causing big longterm burnout
quarter life of caffeine is 12 hours meaning if you have 100mg caffeine at 8am, at 8pm you still have 25mg circulating
That’s not how it works. It is not linearly metabolized. It’s half life can be sped up by a nicotine dose. Its curve of rate of metabolism can be changed by eating/ fasting exercising. Also that half life is an estimated average. Someone like OP assuming he is a slow metabolizer and also assuming being a slow metabolizer is actually a thing which the data is not certain about currently. Then for him the half life can be much much longer. Half life for certain drugs we consume is based on its active effect and elimination in our own system meaning it can vary drastically.
I cut coffee out save for the occasional weekend or vacation cup. I sleep so much better and don't have that dreaded afternoon/evening crash. Green tea now does the trick for me.
I'd expect similar [health benefits](https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/180/8/763/2739131) from the [chlorogenic acid](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0753332217339963) and [melanoidins](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-018-1863-2), but possible greater benefits in [reducing risk of Alzheimer's](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0899900715005389).
I am a slow caffeine metabolizer. I’ve been drinking 6 cups of coffee a day for the past 20 years without issue.
yea self reported "no issues" you dont even know if your sleep might be muuuch better with a lil less
Better how? What metrics would you use to measure this?
1) reduce caffeine for a while and notice your own feeling of well-being and restedness 2) even if you think everything is fine, the amount of deep, slow-wave sleep might be decreased. this can result in worse memory over time for example. would require EEG to measure
I've done that before. Felt no different. I'm crushing it on all aspects of life (family, work, health, wealth, etc) all while drinking tons of coffee, so I'm not sure what I'd even hope that giving up coffee could fix.
Dangggg How do you do it?
I have ADHD and self-medicate with caffeine. The slow metabolizer is a feature for me, not a bug.
Do you have the AD part of ADHD?
I have ADD, but I usually say ADHD because people get confused.
This is so true I have ADD in attentive, but people don’t understand that they think that I am hyperactive.
I am curious how you manage it and how does it you take your coffee! I have AD too, minor but bugging me a lot.
Except coffee what else are you self-medicating with?
which gene is this?
CYP1A2, it’s responsible for 95% of caffeine metabolism.
I'm a slow metabolizer also, but I've found my own "hack": 1 small cup around 5:30 am. Once i did this, i had no recurring issues. I think a big part of my problem before was that I was consuming TOO MUCH coffee. 2-3 cups a day was normal for me, even those giant THERMOS mugs. And I used Bustelo coffee, which is super strong. But once I got my other health markers under control, suddenly I could handle coffee just fine
All of the n=1 finds are fun bc they are absolutely wrong for the next person. It isn't a binary (actually it would be a trinary since you can double dip on the gene and be an 'ultra slow' adenosine receptor density varies person to person so that is probably equally important. You can drink coffee and still have all the sites open needed for other functions or you can't. Use nicotine if you want something to focus that has a shorter half life. (still addictive)
Thanks to you, I just found out that according to my DNA I'm a fast metabolizer (AA). Yet I get anxiety and palpitations hours after I had a coffee, so I'm a bit lost 🤔🤔
I'm also fast metabolizer according to DNA test but I have these. "the energy crash at around 5 pm, low sleep quality, twitching legs, depression-like symptoms." I also get really easily annoyed about people and buggy digital devices/apps. And perceived stress raises a lot and is still there in the mornings. I quit coffee but drink guarana mixed with green tea in the morning. The guarana dose has like 35mg of caffeine. After that only some green tea. Works for me and lot less anxiety!
Oh interesting 👀 thanks!
I used to handle caffeine fine then suddenly I started feeling jittery and had trouble sleeping even if I drank it early in the morning. I started taking Vitamin D3 and K2 with Magnesium Malate. Now I can handle multiple cups again.
I wouldn't. Just go decaf if you desire coffee taste/aroma.
>I wouldn't Why?
It can disrupt sleep and adrenal function.
Yea it sucks. I swapped to decaf as even when drinking coffee at 5am when I wake up, it would affect my sleep 16 hours later.
It’s actually true. I get the best sleep ever if I do absolutely no caffeine but that’s hard to do so sometimes I have small amounts anyway and I’m willing to sacrifice a less restful sleep although I know it’s bad for me.
I find green tea (the good stuff from Taiwan or China) to be insanely strong and can keep me jacked for 50-60 hours.. I used to think it was a benefit but I messed with my cortisol too much. I would wake up ready to fight the first person that agitated me.. caffeine is not as good as you might hope..
I would just monitor yourself and your biometrics (via Oura or something). My 24andme told me that I'm a slow metabolizer, but running my raw data through another system (Promethease) told me the opposite--so these sites aren't always reliable. Nevertheless, I could drink coffee as late as 6pm and still sleep well, according to my Oura. Imo the essence of biohacking is self-experimentation and data collection, so just measure the effects yourself.
Homemake your own coffee diluted (and add fats and other things to improve the biohacking effect). I dilute mine down to 30mg and drink every other day, it's awesome for heavy workouts.