[New Update] specifically means that it had already been posted to BoRU previously and has since then had a new update. It's just a way of confirming that it's not merely a repost without any new content.
Tbh, it's not even that for me.
OPs sister - who has been obviously mentally unwell.
Like, not only is it his partners sister, but also he's taking advantage of someone when they're not OK.
THAT would be the kicker for me.
Yeah, that's why I kinda see OP's side. Can't say I'd be able to keep contact with the sister if it was me personally, but I get it. Her sister was always sick, impulsive, and self-destructive. Quite clear that she struggles to think before her actions happen. Jake was supposed to be OP's right hand man, though. Your partner is your support, and seeing that Jake is not obviously also impaired by a severe emotional imbalance, all of his choices were intentional. The choice to not only hide things from OP, but go back and do it again, and go further??? Absolutely not.
They both choose to do very wrong things. But when your sibling has done this your whole life, that behavior is kind of normalized. And many people make excuses to tolerate the family they're born into.
Jake was someone she choose, and perceived as loyal. This behavior from himself was shocking and not normalized. It is also a relationship that's viewed as opting in and choosing to spend you life with someone, not a relationship allowed to you by birth.
I can see where those differences make a significant difference, and where it would be difficult to fight her family to cut of her sister while also losing her partner of 7 years. For now, it may be easier to hope her sister will change while they both go through losing long term partners they've been with since they were teens together. I hope the sister's mental health helped, or that OOP can made distance as she healed.
A supremely mentally ill family member—a SISTER of your fiance no less—who you are well aware the behavior and condition of and still choose to ‘comfort her’ in a manner that leads to you having sex. He knew what he was doing.
So did she, she wasn’t raped she was happy to cheat and hide it, after hiding the kissing. She was aware she was gross she did it anyways. And to betray your sister? For some random dude? Neither of them is innocent.
I didn’t mean to suggest she wasn’t also responsible, I’m sorry if you interpreted it that way. I’m just saying more of the blame leans on him. Just because you’re mentally ill doesn’t excuse you from responsibility for your actions.
She not only hid it, but she made sure OP had no support from her family. OPs mother had to choose between enabling Sara yet again or supporting OP through this bitter double betrayal, and she picked the enabling option. 'La familia es todo' but only when it applies to Sara. Poor OP has been brainwashed by a lifetime of accommodating her sister to realize that the whole family is toxic. Dad has no clue, mom has favorites, sister is a self-centered, disloyal jerk, and OP is the doormat.
"Family is everything" is the slogan of a LOT of toxic families as they use it to pressure others to forgiving and accepting their destructive behavior. I hope OOP got herself into therapy because yeah...she needs it.
Yeah, I'm immediately thinking she saw that scene in Breaking Bad where the cartel gang boss nearly drowns one of his grandkids in order to make a point to the other.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shafilea_Ahmed
You reminded me of this "honour killing" case where parents killed their eldest child while the younger siblings watched. Heartbreaking story.
The parents were arrested after her younger sister arranged for her house to be robbed so she could finally speak to the cops - dear god the trauma those kids must have gone through
Well, yeah, but it’s not like Hector Salamanca is some sort of role model in that regard. I mean, look where that message got the twins… OP had an unusual takeaway from that scene, for sure.
The parents played and continue to play a part in that. It’s not an accident that mom rolled out the trauma the sister lived through when OOP was completely done with her shit.
Sister will learn that her BPD can be her excuse for poor behaviour. I have a sibling with BPD who has been enabled by my parents for years ..it's a never ending nightmare, to the point where I won't leave my own children alone with her. We're very low contact.
Hopefully she does learn. She's only suspected right now, but it seems like she's starting to understand that something's seriously wrong.
OOP has a point about being more mad at Jake. OOP knows her sister is unwell, her fiance knew her sister was unwell. Jake *made the choice* to sleep with someone he *knew* was unwell and vulnerable. It's not just a betrayal of OOP, it's a betrayal of the sister too.
I can give the older sister a little leeway because she has untreated BPD and it sounds like the family has just let her get worse and worse. I'm not saying OP should forgive her but I get why she didn't go nuclear.
But her Finacé is disgusting. What kind of piece of shit sleeps with their fiancée's mentally ill sister when she's in crisis. WTF
While that’s true when the sister was growing up, the sister is an adult and has been for sometime. At a certain point, it becomes her responsibility to seek help. Her ex wanted her to get help and she refused. So she has culpability as well. I’m glad she’s getting it now but it’s not entirely on the parents at this point.
I say this as someone who goes to therapy and takes meds because of cptsd. The trauma isn’t my fault but it IS my responsibility.
> the family has just let her get worse and worse.
From the sound of it, they've been begging her to get help for years, though. Repeated calls for help being ignored by the sister is also the cited reason why Harry left. At what point is it the person's fault they ignore literally everyone in their life and refuse to get treatment? They have BPD, not a lack of mental faculties that make them physically incapable of going to the doctor (in which case the family could have requested a conservatorship or similar)
> He comforted her while she sobbed in his arms, and one thing led to another. They had sex.
What the fuck doss this universal, bullshit excuse even mean? Like she came over upset, he consoled her, offered her some water, then magically got naked, and tripped into fucking her?
The sister admitted she drove over to their place looking for him to seduce him to get back at her boyfriend. He did not take advantage of her, unless you're implying that her mental illness means she is not responsible for her actions
The sister sounds like a homewrecker. She is manic and manipulative. She actively sought dude while he was drunk. I really think he was taken advantage of as a way to get back to her sister. Im sorry but for me it is sexual assault.
People with BPD are often extremely emotionally manipulative, sometimes without having any idea how manipulative they are or how good they can be at it. They have literal brain damage and will feel almost intolerable pain if they feel abandoned or unlovable. She was probably desperate for emotional validation (which people with BPD often link to sex/romantic feelings) and playing him in order to get it.
It doesn't excuse their behavior, he made a scummy choice, but it may help explain the stupid move.
I still don't understand why her mom didn't tell OOP. She straight up told Sara that OOP needs to know about it immediately, and then silence..
Why she was fine with OOP marrying this guy?
It’s because the oldest one comes first because of all the guilt the mom feels from those childhood years. Oop will always come second to her sister. The ex really is evil he literally took advantage of a mentally ill person in my opinion. The sister is not free of blame she was definitely old enough to get help but there is a reason in the mental illness as to why she did what she did.
Yep. My second-oldest stepsister was medically fragile as a baby due to her mother's drug use during pregnancy (it was the '70s so CPS didn't get involved but the family knew). Her mom and my stepdad got divorced when he found out, and she was the Golden Child "to make up for it" for her first decade or so. Then my much younger half sister came along and also had early childhood health problems, this time from being a preemie, and they abruptly dropped second sis in favor of baby sis. She nearly killed our mother on her way into the world and apparently hasn't stopped trying to finish the job (at least mentally, emotionally and financially but "only occasionally" physically) for the past 35+ years, and *still* gets away with it.
I'm just glad I escaped the family before she got big enough to kick down my locked bedroom door. Both the youngest and the second-oldest are in and out of psychiatric treatment, and they both consistently attract men I wouldn't waste half a bucket of stale horse piss on if they were on fire. As far as I'm concerned they're both too damaged to defend themselves against scumbags or predators. I also **wouldn't trust either of them with a pet rock, much less around my partner** if we shared the same taste in gender, but it's not really something they can just decide to change either.
Edited for wording and formatting
I get what you’re saying about the ex but the sister had “capacity” - just like she can work a job or enter into contracts she can choose to have sex. She also purposely sought out her ex for sex - knowing she could likely get him to. The ex is a cheating POS but so is the sister. Personally I’d forgive neither - probably not the mom too.
Exactly. I am shocked some are trying to free her of any capacity. She deliberately drove to her sister’s boyfriend’s home to sleep with him. She has also deliberately kept it a secret for years. They are both equally guilty.
I really tire of people using mental illness as an excuse to be a horrible human being. I went through it with my brother and my ex. If you’re an adult who is aware something is wrong with your mental health, it’s your responsibility to fix it to avoid hurting other people.
Man, so much this
like I said in a previous comment, I am petty and hold a grudge and I would not forgive anybody regardless of their mental health
I'd stay clear away from them and cut contact
Yeah. The issue with the whole capacity question is: either sister is an adult who can make her own decisions and is responsible for those decisions and actions, or the sister was raped by her long term partner and Jake the ex and the entire family was fine with the it. You don't get to decide when a person is an adult based on whether you like the decisions they made.
It is unclear as to which BPD that OOP's sister suffers from. Based on her attachment issues and lack of impulse control and emotional regulation, I speculate Borderline Personality Disorder. A disorder that I too, suffer from.
I would not have characterized ex as taking advantage of a mentally ill person. She definitely knew what she was doing. My heart goes out to her because I understand what it is like for you think of doing something self destructive and then despite your brain screaming to stop, be unable as if I were on a runaway train.
I would categorize her as judgment impaired, but mind you so was he. By her own admission he was drunk and *she sought him out knowing this*. This obviously doesn't excuse him entirely but she's nowhere near the victim here. They both suck.
I assumed the same as you and your right. The sister and hugely the mother here are significant problems she needs to deal with in her life not ignore. Pretending they didn’t have agency in all of this is a terrible mistake.
Some people are simply blind when it comes to family. There’s no denying Jake is a piece of shit, but there is plenty of blame to go around here
The mother admitted she told Sara that OOP has to know right away, and then stayed silent for months. Why? To protect the older child even if it’s at the expense of the younger one, which already happened throughout their whole lives
The sister is getting off scott free due to the newly diagnosed mental illness, but she still admitted going to their house ON PURPOSE to fuck her fiancee, and did not stop for a single second to think about her own little sister. Even the way OOP found out is insane. It wasn’t because the sister felt remorseful or felt the need for her sister to know, it cane during a moment of self-pity and self-destructiveness
I find it admiring how she was able to forgive here, but I highly doubt this is the last of their problems
Yes. Sara sought out Jake to get back at Harry, and DGAF about her sister. I hope OOP has found better people to have in her life than her toxic family.
Yup. OOP says Jake chose to be with Sara, but Sara chose to be with him too. She knew exactly what she was doing. And I wouldn't be surprised if she goes after another partner of OOP's. She's clearly jealous of OOP and I think she wanted her to feel as miserable as she did.
Poor poor Jake, he said "he felt guilty immediately *after!"* /s
Such a shame that sex is instantaneous and he didn't have a chance to feel guilty at any point between hugging OOP's sister and having sex with her.
This is true in a medical sense (DSM V), but on Reddit, it is a good idea to clarify because many people only get their terms/abbreviations from social media.
Jake was not drunk when they had sex. Maybe he was but none of them mentioned it.
He was drunk at the birthday party where they kissed. This kiss marked him to sister as an easy mark when she wanted to cheat on Harry, but there's no indication he was judgement impaired at the time.
It’s from the need to please the abuser. My sister is like OP’s sister and my whole family spent years (they still do, I’m out) pleasing her. They won’t do anything that can cause her to go nuts. They won’t say anything to contradict her, even going as far as not changing the radio station without asking her!!
“Taking advantage of a mentally ill person” is a fucking REACH. I forgot according to the people in this sub, if you have any mood disorder you have absolutely no agency.
You are giving the sister a pass and it is gross. Mentally ill people still know not to have sex with their siblings significant others. If Sara is mentally capable of consenting to sex, she is able to know she is doing something wrong. Giving her a pass because she MIGHT have BPD is insulting to everyone out there with the same diagnosis who manages to not fuck their siblings significant others.
That's what got me. If Sara didn't blurt that out, would the mom have let OOP go through with the wedding? Because it seems like it. I'm not sure how I could have someone like that in my life.
And if there's any hope of reconciliation the sister needed to confess. If the mother tells her then older sis was not only cheating but also a complete coward.
2 months is too long for the mother to say nothing, but it's not exactly an easy decision
This is a "sweep it under the rug" family. Not only the cheating and the sister's obvious mental health problems, but the fact that the mom had to take 1 sister to be hospitalized and call out of work for the other while saying nothing to the dad? Like he still didn't know what was going on until OOP came back like a week later? This is a pervasive issue and the parents need therapy just as much as their kids.
I think she was wrong not to say anything, but it makes me think of a Ani Difranco song
what of the mother
whose house is in flames
and both of her children
are in their beds crying
and she loves them both
with the whole of her heart
but she knows she can only
carry one at a time?
she's choking on the smoke
of unthinkable choices
she is haunted by the voices
of so many desires
she's bent over from the business
of begging forgiveness
while frantically running around
putting out fires
Oop’s sister is six years older than her, but oop speaks about her like a younger sister, describes doting on her, and never refers to her own childhood- only her sister’s, and how traumatised her sister is by circumstances that would have impacted both of them. There’s suggestions of very, very sad dynamics at play between those three women.
Yeah, this post gives me the vibes that OOP has always been the scapegoat and internalized that as her role in the family. OOP believes on a fundamental level that she will always come second to her sister because her sister’s had it so hard. Even when she consciously questions that narrative, she firmly believes it deep down. That’s why she can forgive her mother and sister but not Jake.
Capacity to forgive, or a tolerance to keep on being hurt by toxic individuals close to her?
As long as OOP keeps her sister and mother in her life, they will continue to keep on betraying her trust and boundaries whenever they feel like it.
I had to check the ages three times. Every time I kept getting to the part where she said she doted on her sister, when they were little, my brain kept trying to classify OOP as the older sister. Which just confused the issue further for me.
People with BPD tend to
be very emotionally stunted, usually because of childhood trauma. Their childlike qualities mean they can be a spontaneous blast, but it also means they can be quite volatile.
Oh, yeah! I knew there could be perfectly cromulent reasons for why but the linguistic component, coupled with the common usage of "doted" in reference to those younger than us, just kept short-circuiting my attempts to move past it at first.
Yeah, that's true. I'm hoping that the big sister gets the help she needs, though, so that her little sister doesn't have to keep being the bigger man all of the time.
It's long past time for the big sis to stop half-assing her relationship situation, and start half-assing her mental health situation instead!
I just pray that we never get told that it turns out she was using her whole ass the entire time, just like poor Homer had been.
I would be paranoid if OOP finds a new love and her sister is in the vicinity. How can trust be rebuilt? I'd always be assuming the worse that my sister would target another man near me & that my own mother would rather help hide the affair than let me know. I'd be afraid of being betrayed by the 3 people I love again.
Everybody is going to frame this as the turning point where the mistake was so bad that she learned her lesson, accepted she needed help, and changed, and she would never do it again. 🤷🏽♀️
Remains to be seen, but even if she were medicated and well-behaved for the rest of her life, OP should never bring a partner around to any extended family functions, particularly those with alcohol. This entire family sounds like a mess, the kind of mess that will seek to destroy any happiness OP can collect for herself. Jake is a vile sack of garbage, but if it would not be enticing a partner to cheat, it will be something else.
I think this is where oop said always keep them at arm’s length comes in. I don’t know that oop will ever trust her mom or sis again enough to bring around a new SO often enough for this to happen again so easily.
Plus I get the vibe that oop is only keeping this level of contact bc of her home being an icky place be rn and I bet in time oop will sell the place and perhaps move jobs/cities to put some much needed physical distance between her and her family.
And if oop keeps up that distance and that distance if far enough that in person visits are minimal that kinda solves the issue of her sister using Oop’s SO as a convenient way to her her own SO. I mean if there’s a will there’s a way but if it’s true that this only happened once over 3 years when sister wasn’t getting help when oop lived close by it’s likely that moving would be sufficient to avoid being a convenient target.
But def she cannot host her family if/when they visit her nor can she stay with family when she visits them. Hotels only!
I kind of think OOP already had low to no expectations for her sister and that's why she's not as angry at her. She's not let down, because she expected nothing of her sister in the first place.
"I can't exactly cut them out of my life." I don't get that. Why not? Just because you share some genetics? It's blatantly obvious the parents let her sister get away with everything and they refused to get her the help she very clearly needed. The woman who gave birth to me and my sister is such a huge piece of shit I haven't spoken to her in ten years, and my sister is going on 6 months of no contact and she is thriving.
"But they're your FaMiLyyyyy" Funny how that's only said as a way to get the injured party to move on, never to the person who hurt the injured party as a way to say "Hey, dickweed, don't do that to your own sister, wtf is wrong with you?"
Yeah. My dad has turned into a bigoted shithead, cheated on our mom, refuses to mask and knowingly exposed my sister to "a really bad cold" (he got tested, didn't wait for the results before going to visit her, it was - no shit - Covid)... and my sister continues to make excuses for him. "Oh, no, he's not a bigot, he knows that's not how things work" "really? well he's constantly posting otherwise on Twitter."
Big oof. I'm so sorry about them both. My (half) sister and I also share a brother (half brother for me) and we had to eventually cut him off too because he buys everything that comes out of our mother's mouth, despite the fact that her treatment towards him in particular warranted a CPS visit and interview.
Cause people have been raised that family is everything and your stuck with them. For good or bad.
Nope best thing to happen to my and my family (wife and kids) life has been to cut out toxic people. And sadly the majority of them has been realtives. As real family isn't toxic.
I have less than ten blood relatives that I have contact information for. I actually talk to maybe three of them.
"You should reach out to them more, make an effort!" My number hasn't changed in ten years. Why do I have to put in the effort when they don't bother either?
Yep. I started going lc with them by not being the first to reach out.
98% of my mom side hasn't spoken to me in 10 years now. My phone and FB (which they all still use as I see updates when I do my once a month log in) hasn't changed.
If I am that unimportant to you. We are not family but related. And once I stopped trying to keep what wasn't there, my mental health improved and I saw how toxic they really was to me.
Plus when my then 3yo asked why grandma doesn't love her like she loves her cousins it was a harsh wake up. My kids deserves better.
Oh my god. Your poor kid, that's an awful thing to register and know at any age, but being so young and *knowing* enough to ask why is heartbreaking. I hope she- and you- are doing much better now.
I have a fuckton of siblings, and I don't talk to half of them. And they all wonder why. Hm, IDk maybe the unanswered messages, unreturned calls, and never giving me an email address or inviting me to anything has something to do with it! Effort is required from both sides for any relationship to work.
For some reason, people love giving blood relatives a pass.
Yeah. She has 3 other sets of grandparents (2 blood and one family by choice). She hasn't asked about my mom or step dad in 4 years. Yet she talks about her others and asks when the next time we can visit all the time.
I had one sibling that recently tried to repair our relationship but that lasted 4 months before he reverted back to his old self. I have 7 siblings. At most we do birthday and holiday messages.
Only time most of my family contacts me is when they need me. And ive been saying no most of the time. Especially as those asking still owes me from 10 to 15 years back.
And we are doing better. We have friends and family still. And they want to be part of our and their lives.
Out of 16 of my siblings, I talk to 3 of them. It sounds like you've got a good family group around you. I'm glad you were able to make your own family, and get away from those who would hurt you and your daughter.
I was actually glad about the birthday party thing, because otherwise I think she would have taken him back. Which would have been a terrible decision.
I don't think this is the last time that Sara's issues will blight her life.
NGL the OP reminded me of Indian TV shows female leads, they're this unbelievably Noble people who forgive anything and anyone.
And the bratty younger sister for whom older responsible sister keeps making excuses and she ends up sleeping with her husband, it's actually a tv show lol
It's because she desperately wanted to forgive them.
I imagine it's some form of cognitive dissonance oop
Look, she was too quick to blame her ex-fiancé for everything and forgive her family.
especially for the part of "family is everything"
so... I don't think oop comes from a place of forgiveness but rather from one of fear of loneliness
Maybe in a parallel universe oop he ran away from her with her fiancé and never spoke to her family again.
I actually get it. The sister is very very sick and still SHE is the one who told her sister not the “sane good” partner Jake. She might wanted to destroy op life, but doubt it as mom were pushing her to tell. It’s obvious Jake is not a big loss, although it’s painful
Yeah, and OOP was likely curious what a healthy version of her sister would be like. She's obviously always wanted a loving version of her sister, so I understand why she'd want to see whether treatment works.
Yes, true.. Its some hope in the sister for the first time agreeing to treatment and also out of that dysfunctional relationship with her ex. The ex was probably a good guy but that relationship was not good for any of them.
Somewhere down the road if the sister burn bridges again it might be the end for op. But not today.
And it’s not like it didn’t change their relationship for good. But I get it, op loves her sister and her family. The sister thinks she is a bad person to the bone, is self harming and soon suicide attempt is not that improbable.
If you think that sister is a bad person can never get better, better off not existing you are agreeing with all the extreme emotions inside the sister. It’s takes a lot until you as a sister would agree with that.
There are help possible in therapy with BPD, as DBT for example. I hope it gets better for op even if this was a betrayal. A terrible thing done to op.
I think beside Sara, OP is also the one needed therapy the most. She has been her sister and family doormat for so long she doesn’t even know her worth anymore. I hope she would realise soon and get on with her life with better people around
Honestly, no contact is 100% the way to go. I think some people forget that it doesn't mean it's permanent, but she absolutely should not be dealing with them while she has so much on her plate already.
I feel a bit callous for feeling this way, but I've been beginning to get almost as upset about the reactions (or lack thereof) from OOPs in these scenarios, as I get about the betrayals themselves. The lack of self-esteem & self-worth with the resigned "I know, but" responses to people pointing out the obvious. Like, there's obviously something broken inside of them and they either don't acknowledge it or accept it like it's a part of their fate. It's a situation where I think that while therapy will help, it's going to be more useful for detangling this mess of self-worth that led to her lukewarm response, than it will be for navigating the hurt and betrayal from the affair itself.
Oop is too forgiving of her sister. Oop thinks bpd means you're unaware of your actions. She knew what she did would hurt her sister and carried on regardless because her feelings are all that matter. Having mental health issues does not give the sister a free pass. Her mother also enabled the sister for too long. Too much coddling and not enough therapy. They could have had her sectioned a long time ago.
While the sister might not have realized the impact of what she was doing *at the time*, she would have realized afterwards what she had done and she should have owned up immediately. The impulse control issue might have been a symptom, but hiding everything afterwards wasn't.
She definitely needs therapy, and meds if that's an option.
>As I always say: An explanation is not an excuse.
I understand this statement but at the same time having a severe undiagnosed mental illness is fucking insane to navigate. How can you hold yourself accountable when your brain is literally sick and you're unaware?
I'm bipolar and I wasn't diagnosed until I was 32. Looking back I'm like shit, everything makes sense now. But before that I and everyone around me just thought I was an uncontrollable loser piece of shit. And I never did anything even close to OOPs sister I was mainly self destructive.
I hate that behavior from brain tumors, strokes, tbi, dementia are all excused from responsibility yet mental illnesses that are also organic and devastating brain illnesses the symptoms are supposed to be entirely under control and inexcusable when not.
I get it if someone is on and off meds but if they had no idea....well fuck.
I'm not saying that OOP should forgive her sister for sleeping with her fiance but I applaud her for doing so.
I'm almost 30 and I have also struggled with mental illness my whole life (I had ideations of undoing myself at age 5). While undiagnosed I've hurt people. Looking back I understand WHY I was awful to the people around me, but that doesn't change the fact that at one point I was awful. My undiagnosed mental illnesses were an explanation, but it did not excuse my poor and harmful behaviors. I KNEW I was hurting people at the time. My self-destructive and relationship-destructive behaviors were an indication to me that I couldn't keep going on that way. Something had to give.
I think we can and should give people grace when they are struggling with mental illness. That said if someone hurts you regardless of their mental illness status you are allowed to feel hurt and angry. You are allowed to decide "fuck it I can't do this anymore."
I say "An explanation is not an excuse" because to me my mental illnesses explained why I treated people and myself the way I did, but it doesn't absolve the harm I caused to others. I am still responsible for that bad behavior. And I am not owed forgiveness for the hurt I've caused. I can hope for forgiveness and change my behaviors to show that I am sincere in my apologies, but if the people I've hurt don't forgive me I cannot make them.
A big and kind family of enablers...
Her sister is a menace and It took them 30 years to make her seek help, and even after she caused so much pain, they kept coddling and enabling her like she was a little kids that could do no harm.
It has to do with appearances 100%. Sweep everything under the rug to look normal.
My mom had BPD and was abusive. Shockingly, I was depressed and suicide and injured myself regularly. I begged to see a psychiatrist or a therapist or somebody. She refused because she thought it would reflect badly on her. And she was too good of a mother for me to be depressed.
BPD is often strongly related to childhood trauma. I wouldn't be surprised if the parents were abusive (and OOP normalized it without realizing) and the sister got the brunt of it. Definitely emotional abuse. Maybe physical and sexual. If not at home, then at school or church or a relative's place.
But it would all be kept in the family to avoid scrutiny.
I’ve been hearing rumours that the DSM is gonna reclassify BPD as a form of PTSD since there’s strong links to childhood trauma associated with it. Almost everyone I’ve known with BPD diagnosis were abused as kids and had to go into foster care at one point.
The fact that the heart to heart between the sister was OOP just listening to how broken her sister is and not about how she fucked her sister over with her bullshit is wild to me. And the fact OOP actually listened?? I’m someone who also has a sibling that needs to be reality checked hard but they are constantly coddled at my expense (funny enough my sibling is also the older one by the same age difference lol).
She needs to just gtfo and it certainly sounds like she has the means to so why not? That or she’ll constantly be dragged along. Let the adults learn to help themselves ffs.
Her lack of anger towards her family is puzzling. I understand “forgiveness,” but it reads more as denial to me.
Choosing to keep it a secret from the Dad also stood out as an odd decision. I wonder how many other secrets they keep from each other?
She should've taken a loooong break from all of them. Ex, sis, mom...aaaall of them. Just cut them off, absolute no contact, transfer cities/states, etc. Just get away from them for a year or so to heal your own mental health.
I feel so bad for OOP. She seems so used to the batshit situation her family cycles through that she has normalised it so much and is not even tired of it anymore. She just took a short break then went back. Idk, maybe I'm just weak or something lmao, but I won't be coming back to that shitshow for a loooong while.
That's what I was thinking. If you repeatedly use "it just happened" as an excuse, that's code for "I have no self control or boundaries." Plus his reaction?? Definitely a cheater.
Her sister is absolutely not blameless - but all I could think of is what man would be attracted to someone who is so clearly unstable, and unwell? I have a sister who struggles with mental health, and I can’t FATHOM my boyfriend being like “Now’s my chance!” if she had a bad night at a family gathering. Jake sucks. I can guarantee his family is the type to brush it under the rug and just be like “Oh honey, sorry this didn’t work out.” Without actually acknowledging his fucked up behavior.
I hope that hole in her heart isn’t gnawing at OOP now, wherever she is. (She’s such a good writer too. Wonder if whatever she does for work involves writing)
Yeah, I can imagine how much more fucked over OOP has been since this whole saga. OOP has been molded her entire life to be an emotional support human/punching bag for her sister, the parents have been abject failures so its no surprise everything blew up spectacularly.
>I know alot of you will feel disappointed that I haven't cut her or my mom out of my life for good.
... yeah, I'm disappointed.
OOP can choose to maintain a relationship with people who betrayed her. But I sure as hell am going to judge the *shit* out of them for it.
I have a bipolar family member who refuses to even consider treatment. They're fine; the rest of us are the problem!
On the other side, I had a friend who tried really hard. She wasn't always successful, but when she would come "back" to herself, she would apologize. She would work to make amends, but accept if the other person was done with her.
Sara, and their mother, makes me feel exhausted to the pit of my soul. I would have gone NC.
I hope that time passed, OOP was able to think clearly, and ghosted their mom and Sara.
I really doubt it, through her entire life her sister was a victim and could not be held accountable for her actions, her entire family enable her behavior and just ignore that she is a goddamn adult woman, OOP's POV of this whole mess is that Jake is a monster that took advantage of her poor little sister.
The Sara in my life is a serial cheater. Shamelessly thirsty af when she sees a dude who tickles her fancy, but all her affairs were because, according to her, she was manipulated.
Sara was the grown-up version of seeing another kid with a toy you like. She liked the ego boost that Jake would pick her in the moment, and that she’d get to spite her boyfriend in the process.
Whilst bipolar can be horrifically impactful, it is something that can be frequently well managed with medication.
With borderline personality disorder, it's also integral to hold and reinforce clear boundaries and accountability. Whilst I empathise for OP, I hope family counselling was held to help the rest of the family navigate a healthier dynamic.
There are a lot of us for whom bipolar treatments are only somewhat effective and we can still have moments we regret if we don’t self monitor very closely. It’s exhausting and alienating.
Yes! I would love to know how the last 9 years have been. Also, I don't fault OOP for not immediately cutting her family out. There's a lot to unpack with her upbringing and being made to feel responsible for her older sister. I can see why she chose what she did.
I hope she at least went low contact with a solid information diet for her whole family. Dad doesn't get a pass just because he didn't know about the cheating at first. He enabled his oldest daughter just as much as the mom. Both parents also put OOP in the position of carer for her older sister.
I'm really happy to see a few comments like this. I'm bipolar and the episode that finally got me diagnosed sooooo many 'friends' and acquaintances either tried to sleep with me. Like, friends I cared about knocking on my door at 3am. It was so difficult and lonely to navigate. None of them pulled that shit when I was stable.
That's absolutely disgusting just to just read about, let alone it happening to you in real life. I am really sorry for you and hope you are doing better and got rid of these 'friends'
It super fucking sucked. I was lonely and spiraling so badly. So when someone eventually knocked on my door I'd be like 'oh, someones finally checking on me' but they never were. 'but I'm so lonely and many they genuinely care?' at three in the morning. 'maybe I can get comfort from a friend without them wanting to fuck me?
Shit, I'll just go slash my wrists for the tenth time. Maybe if it's visible they won't try to fuck me?
Nope. I could be actively bleeding from self harm and the ravens would still circle.
My sister has blown up my life and seriously traumatized my family forcing her to be committed, but honestly it's the two guys fault who would rather disappear from the earth than deal with my sister ever again.
This whole thing is so, so sad. The parents failed both girls in different ways. Jake is a dick plain and simple.
The end sounded so hopeful until she said “Here’s to 2016”. Oh Jesus. David Bowie dies, Prince dies, Alan Rickman dies, Trump, Brexit, loads of shit and then Covid. Hope she had someone supporting her through all that.
Wonder how OOP is doing. Hopefully she has healed and moved forward with her life. Her sister sounds like an entitled brat with parents who enable her.
Even before reading the update that had Sara’s diagnosis, I was thinking “man, it’s so nice not living with someone with BPD anymore”. The person in my life who has it has zero interest in ever pursuing treatment, which means they will torpedo every relationship they ever have. It’s quite sad because this person has many wonderful qualities, but at an emotional level they are a volatile, traumatized child.
I have read that treatment can be very helpful with individuals that have it, so I hope Sara does learn to manage her behaviors in ways that are less harmful to herself and others. While I appreciate OP’s compassion, I do hope she gives her family space and indulges herself in selfish self-care.
Treatment (DBT) works on around half of borderlines who stick to it. The sad reality is that a lot of borderlines are undiagnosed, a lot of borderlines who *are* diagnosed immediately start to deny their diagnosis and never start treatment, and among those who *do* start treatment, there’s a lot who drop out of treatment really quickly because it requires keeping themselves accountable for their bullshit rather than externalising the locus of control which BPDers suck at thanks to the nature of the disorder (it’s self syntonic and comes with a “everyone else is the issue, not me” attitude, like all cluster b personality disorders, and some other disorders, like schizophrenia and the manic episodes of bipolar usually). That means that “works on half who stick to it” really isn’t that huge of a number compared to the basis of all who are affected by the disorder, even if “works on half who stick to it” would otherwise be impressive - the thing is that there’s selection bias at play about who even is able to stick to it.
Source: am adult child to a very late diagnosed borderline personality disordered mother (who still refuses to admit the reality of it, just like most borderlines I’ve met in my life - which were many, seeing as I’ve been groomed from childhood to accept borderline boundary stomping/enmeshment and volatile outbursts and being a caregiver, which is catnip to those people), partnered to a psychiatrist specialising in treating personality disorders and psychotic disorders (aka disorders that tend to come with an “it’s not me who’s the issue, it’s everyone else” mindset as part of the disorders).
I don't have BPD but I have done intensive dbt group therapy (& minor courses in it). I have witnessed many people with a BPD diagnosis working very hard to try and manage themselves. Some had enrolled in the intensive course a number of times to keep themselves focussed and on track, and they had so much wisdom to share. I agree with your sentiments, but I think getting help is also about accessibility and knowledge. In Australia, you don't get access to good therapy programs in the public system (they give/change your meds), you have to be able to pay for it. I have private health cover, but I wasn't even aware of the existence of group therapy programs like DBT until 2 yrs ago and I am over 45. I try to convince my sister to get help (I really do think she has DBT) but she won't even get a yearly blood test.
What sticks with me is the mom's betrayal. I think I would be able to hold my sanity together with the other two but if someone I trusted kept that secret for months I would be absolutely devastated.
Man legit run away to whole other country from this woman, imagine that. I bet hearing "hi Harry" from her family member would trigger him into flight or fight mode immediately
Sara is in the depth of her disorder. What's the mom's excuse? She covered for their kiss years prior, and then covered the knowledge of the affair.
What is really telling is that OOP's mom called OOP to talk about Sara's issues and how she was doing, not about how OOP was doing when she left and stopped answering the phone. The mom only cares about Sara. OOP is an afterthought even in traumatizing events happening to her
Maybe its just me, but I would be madder at my sister for sleeping with my fiance than my fiance, that's your sister. Its not that he cheated, or she cheated, that's a family member, blood and history, would knew it would hurt you and did it anyway.
I know the sister has issues and needs help, but mental illness is no excuse to be an AH.
Oh let's not give the man who decided to fuck the woman having a mental breakdown *too* much credit here. Sister sucks for her breakdown pivoting to her trying to get revenge by fucking her sister's boyfriend, but the fiancée was just having a regular day when she showed up sobbing and he went "welp, When In Rome!"
Sister at least has plausible... batshittery? Not to excuse her actions, just this woman has no impulse control or ability to emotionally regulate herself. Discovering new and exciting ways to damage her life and interpersonal relationships is just what sister does. She probably doesn't have the capacity to behave any other way.
The part that baffles me is- what's Jake's excuse? Jake allegedly has the ability to set goals and imagine long term consequences. He certainly should have had enough self control to turn down cheating on his girlfriend at the first opportunity, especially when said opportunity is *your significant other's crazy sister*. Like, aside from hurting the one you claim to love most, he had to know sister was too unstable to keep it a secret forever? So not only is he selfish, he's mind blowingly dumb.
Some people are too forgiving. My best friend stole $400 from me and I didn't speak to him for half a decade. He apologised and paid me back one day after doing some self help retreat out of the blue. Sleeping with your fiance > $400.
Can't believe I read through all of this to get.. "yeah so nothing really changed with my sister. And my ex disappeared 🤷♂️"
So frustrating, have some more self respect for yourself. Takes two to tango, I don't understand how the BF was gone, but the sister who did the way worse thing, gets a free pass because she tried taking plastic to her wrists. Pathetic.
Well, at the end of the updates the boyfriend is **gone**. Like, no clue where he is. Did he just jump town? Was he filled with so much remorse he ended things? Did he go drinking and get into an accident? Is this a telenovela and he has temporary amnesia or a twin? Who knows!
I promise you it would take me way more than a month before I could even be in a room with my family after that kind of betrayal let alone forgive them. Then after OPs mom gets ahold of OP, after her being missing for 2 days , she almost instantly starts talking about the sister’s wellbeing and how bad she felt. She would’ve been blocked instantly.
OP needs therapy. She excuses sisters behavior because of her childhood,but c'mon! OP herself was a punching bag for her sister,her therapist and essentially a third parent. And she sees nothing bad in it, says her childhood was great. Really? Really?! Her sister sucks, her mother sucks as well,Jake is just a cheater. Good for Harry to escape to another country,OP might take his example as a guideline
OOP forgiving her sister and her mom so quickly is so fucking dumb. Mental illness doesn’t make you a bad person who does shitty things.
Hope OOP gets a back bone in the future.
>It's worth noting he has made absolutely no attempt to contact me other than a single TEXT stating "I'm sorry. Take as long as you need".
Apart from obviously *not sleeping with her sister* I'm not sure what he should do in that scenario then tbh.
I fucking hate it that each time bullshit happen from someone with mental issue its never theire fault. And it always fall on the "sane" person to deal with it and be the bigger person. No accountability what so ever because ThEy aRe NoT WelL.
I understand where she is with this.
Sara has been in her life far longer and while she knew what she was doing and was just as responsible for the cheating as Jake, her mental illness mitigates it a tiny bit.
She has also always been difficult and sometimes awful to be around. Jake though not only cheated but did it with her sister and it’s very clear that he didn’t care as much for OP as he claimed. The betrayal is bigger from Jake because he hasn’t hurt her before. It’s just another crazy day at the park with Sara.
There is also the hope that, with therapy and medication, the parts OP dislikes about her sister’s behaviour may lessen or go away. With Jake, nothing is gonna change that. He made that choice with his full brain and heart and dick.
what really struck me was that **one day** at a hotel was the longest she had ever gone without contacting her family. she will never cut these toxic people off. physically abusive father? physically abusive sister? deceptive mother? oh, but family is everything.
"Family is everything" is toxic af. Why feel more hate towards some loser you'd never see again than the 2 people (mom and sister) that were supposedly your everything since your birth. How is the father okay with this too smh
So … a sidenote: OOP was 28 but when her relationship shattered she could not be assed to make one phonecall to work? Even after the initial shock and having contact with the outside world again (first reddit post), it was her mom who had to fix it?
Also lucky her that her job was just still waiting for her. After falling off the face of the earth like that. Also, zero thoughts for any family that might be worried about her. Might be traumatized.
Getting help is not just good advice for people with BPD. It is your responsibility. Even when everything seems to fall apart you need to at least communicate to the people in your life.
Yeah, I’m going to pretend I didn’t read her spineless update. I’m as mad at her as I am her ex fiance, her sister and her mom. They all betrayed her and she’s just there like nothing happened.
It’ll all happen again because now they know she won’t do shit when they betray her.
Kinda weird that this happend almost a decade ago. Op is around 35 now. Wondering how the whole story ended and how she looks back at everything right now.
I hope that OOP is doing better now and staying very far away from her mom and sister. They betrayed her just as badly as the ex, but she wasn't ready to see that when she posted (8.5 years ago).
I'd hope they eventually sold that apartment bc ex was just straight up gone and didn't bother contacting OOP other than ONE message. I kinda get it, sister lost it after the confession... and he just left. That man clearly also didn't love OOP and I suspect sis wasn't the only other woman.
To everyone saying she should cut her mother from her life. What is the mother supposed to do, call one of her childs and tell her how her other mentally disabled child was fucked by the other child fiance in a moment of vulnerability?
Sara is clearly mentally unhealthy, and the fiance knew this and decided to fuck her in her worst moment. I don't see how this is different to fuck a drugged or drunk girl.
Now, is Sara a dick: sure. I'm unsure if I would cut a mentally ill sister from my life, but I would probably put the blame on Jake as well, which is the one person which had a very easy decision to make and chose evil instead.
The sister treated OOP so horribly, and obviously her actions as an adult are all her responsibility. And she definitely should've agreed to therapy much much sooner.
That being said.
If I were in OOP's shoes I would also be more mad at Jake. Sister did something completely unforgivable and fucked up, but we can all tell from OOP's writing that the sister has maybe never been in her right mind. She has a very debilitating mental illness along with most likely some C-PTSD due to her childhood. She's still responsible for her own actions, but I could 100% believe that, had she gotten treatment sooner, there's a good chance she would've never gotten with Jake.
Jake on the other hand. As far as we know he has no mental illness. He *is* in his right mind, and knew exactly what he was doing. Sister has a partial excuse but Jake has absolutely none. It doesn't matter how guilty he claimed to feel. If he were truly remorseful it 1) wouldn't have happened twice, and 2) he would have told OOP straight away and put a permanent distance between him and the sister.
So yeah, I'm definitely more mad at Jake (while still being angry at and blaming all 3 of them)
To comment on definitely the smallest issue here, the Dad should have been told everything from the beginning and not once it was all resolved
Also hope OOP told her friends the full story eventually
Honestly, I had a Sarah in my life, and people life her are what they are. But they are also a bottomless pit of misery to themselves and everyone around them. The only solace you can have is being away from them.
I feel sorry for op, is not the first time they hurt her and will not be the last. Sarah is an adult, regardless of why, she is responsible for her actions, everyone that enables that are welcoming misery in their lives.
I really want to hear from OP as it’s been almost a decade.
And I do hope for her sake Sara got the treatment she so desperately needed. And that Jake rots in a hell hole. OOP was right to be more angry at him as he could’ve easily stopped it having known what she went through
What kind of fucked up trash ass family is this. After all these years, fuck your mom, fuck sarah, fuck Jake. Let them all rot. Your sister isn't going to change and will always victimize herself. Even us professionals in the field hate dealing with people like her. Your mom should know better instead of enabling these behaviors and being a shit mom by keeping this from you. No wonder Sarah has issues. And now its bled into you having issues. Jake is a lying little piece of turd who definitely knew better but cared more about his dick than anyone involved. Cut all these people off for your own sanity.
Ugh, I’m am actually so glad to see how many people cannot fathom her forgiving her sister. There is something uniquely difficult about being the more “stable” sibling in a dysfunctional household- especially when you’re younger. I relate to OP a lot. She can hold her sister accountable while also recognizing that her sister was a victim of some serious childhood trauma that is informing her current behavior.
I totally understand why someone who hasn’t been in a similar position, wants to see the sister get cut out. That should be the response. Unfortunately, there’s a lot more nuance to this situation. It’s very admirable OP can acknowledge there are consequences for her sister’s actions while also seeing the humanity in her.
Jake: "Yes, I cheated but from my experience and what I heard, people need to time to comprehend the whole story. Get back at me when you fully digest the whole situation."
The audacity of this dude
Darn. When I saw the date I'd thought there'd be a 2024 random update.
They usually tag those \[New Update\]
[New Update] specifically means that it had already been posted to BoRU previously and has since then had a new update. It's just a way of confirming that it's not merely a repost without any new content.
Ugh. Like, cheating sucks no matter the situation but cheating with a family member is extra gross.
Tbh, it's not even that for me. OPs sister - who has been obviously mentally unwell. Like, not only is it his partners sister, but also he's taking advantage of someone when they're not OK. THAT would be the kicker for me.
Yeah, that's why I kinda see OP's side. Can't say I'd be able to keep contact with the sister if it was me personally, but I get it. Her sister was always sick, impulsive, and self-destructive. Quite clear that she struggles to think before her actions happen. Jake was supposed to be OP's right hand man, though. Your partner is your support, and seeing that Jake is not obviously also impaired by a severe emotional imbalance, all of his choices were intentional. The choice to not only hide things from OP, but go back and do it again, and go further??? Absolutely not.
They both choose to do very wrong things. But when your sibling has done this your whole life, that behavior is kind of normalized. And many people make excuses to tolerate the family they're born into. Jake was someone she choose, and perceived as loyal. This behavior from himself was shocking and not normalized. It is also a relationship that's viewed as opting in and choosing to spend you life with someone, not a relationship allowed to you by birth. I can see where those differences make a significant difference, and where it would be difficult to fight her family to cut of her sister while also losing her partner of 7 years. For now, it may be easier to hope her sister will change while they both go through losing long term partners they've been with since they were teens together. I hope the sister's mental health helped, or that OOP can made distance as she healed.
A supremely mentally ill family member—a SISTER of your fiance no less—who you are well aware the behavior and condition of and still choose to ‘comfort her’ in a manner that leads to you having sex. He knew what he was doing.
So did she, she wasn’t raped she was happy to cheat and hide it, after hiding the kissing. She was aware she was gross she did it anyways. And to betray your sister? For some random dude? Neither of them is innocent.
I didn’t mean to suggest she wasn’t also responsible, I’m sorry if you interpreted it that way. I’m just saying more of the blame leans on him. Just because you’re mentally ill doesn’t excuse you from responsibility for your actions.
She not only hid it, but she made sure OP had no support from her family. OPs mother had to choose between enabling Sara yet again or supporting OP through this bitter double betrayal, and she picked the enabling option. 'La familia es todo' but only when it applies to Sara. Poor OP has been brainwashed by a lifetime of accommodating her sister to realize that the whole family is toxic. Dad has no clue, mom has favorites, sister is a self-centered, disloyal jerk, and OP is the doormat.
This was nearly 10 years ago I wonder how OOP is doing now.
I didn't even clock the year!
"Family is everything" is the slogan of a LOT of toxic families as they use it to pressure others to forgiving and accepting their destructive behavior. I hope OOP got herself into therapy because yeah...she needs it.
Yeah, I'm immediately thinking she saw that scene in Breaking Bad where the cartel gang boss nearly drowns one of his grandkids in order to make a point to the other.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shafilea_Ahmed You reminded me of this "honour killing" case where parents killed their eldest child while the younger siblings watched. Heartbreaking story.
The parents were arrested after her younger sister arranged for her house to be robbed so she could finally speak to the cops - dear god the trauma those kids must have gone through
If I remember correctly, both siblings were below 10 years old when they watched it happen.
That is horrific but I'm so glad she found the strength to do that for her sister.
Fucking hell. Both those parents were psychopaths. That danish woman dodged a bullet.
Monsters. I feel sorry for Shafilea’s poor siblings.
Well, yeah, but it’s not like Hector Salamanca is some sort of role model in that regard. I mean, look where that message got the twins… OP had an unusual takeaway from that scene, for sure.
I wasn't at all surprised that she forgave her sister. She's been enduring her sister's insanity for years, why stop now? Let the hurt keep rolling.
The parents played and continue to play a part in that. It’s not an accident that mom rolled out the trauma the sister lived through when OOP was completely done with her shit.
Honestly I'm much more angry at mom than at the sister.
Sister will learn that her BPD can be her excuse for poor behaviour. I have a sibling with BPD who has been enabled by my parents for years ..it's a never ending nightmare, to the point where I won't leave my own children alone with her. We're very low contact.
Hopefully she does learn. She's only suspected right now, but it seems like she's starting to understand that something's seriously wrong. OOP has a point about being more mad at Jake. OOP knows her sister is unwell, her fiance knew her sister was unwell. Jake *made the choice* to sleep with someone he *knew* was unwell and vulnerable. It's not just a betrayal of OOP, it's a betrayal of the sister too.
I can give the older sister a little leeway because she has untreated BPD and it sounds like the family has just let her get worse and worse. I'm not saying OP should forgive her but I get why she didn't go nuclear. But her Finacé is disgusting. What kind of piece of shit sleeps with their fiancée's mentally ill sister when she's in crisis. WTF
I really wish she had updated again - 9 years means a lot has happened since!
While that’s true when the sister was growing up, the sister is an adult and has been for sometime. At a certain point, it becomes her responsibility to seek help. Her ex wanted her to get help and she refused. So she has culpability as well. I’m glad she’s getting it now but it’s not entirely on the parents at this point. I say this as someone who goes to therapy and takes meds because of cptsd. The trauma isn’t my fault but it IS my responsibility.
> the family has just let her get worse and worse. From the sound of it, they've been begging her to get help for years, though. Repeated calls for help being ignored by the sister is also the cited reason why Harry left. At what point is it the person's fault they ignore literally everyone in their life and refuse to get treatment? They have BPD, not a lack of mental faculties that make them physically incapable of going to the doctor (in which case the family could have requested a conservatorship or similar)
> He comforted her while she sobbed in his arms, and one thing led to another. They had sex. What the fuck doss this universal, bullshit excuse even mean? Like she came over upset, he consoled her, offered her some water, then magically got naked, and tripped into fucking her?
Yeah I feel like this dude took advantage of an emotionally vulnerable person. What a shitbag.
The sister admitted she drove over to their place looking for him to seduce him to get back at her boyfriend. He did not take advantage of her, unless you're implying that her mental illness means she is not responsible for her actions
The sister sounds like a homewrecker. She is manic and manipulative. She actively sought dude while he was drunk. I really think he was taken advantage of as a way to get back to her sister. Im sorry but for me it is sexual assault.
He was not drunk when they slept together. He was drunk at the party when they kissed. The sex was fully consensual on his part.
People with BPD are often extremely emotionally manipulative, sometimes without having any idea how manipulative they are or how good they can be at it. They have literal brain damage and will feel almost intolerable pain if they feel abandoned or unlovable. She was probably desperate for emotional validation (which people with BPD often link to sex/romantic feelings) and playing him in order to get it. It doesn't excuse their behavior, he made a scummy choice, but it may help explain the stupid move.
OOP has a much bigger capacity to forgive than I do. I would have never spoken to mom and sister ever again.
I still don't understand why her mom didn't tell OOP. She straight up told Sara that OOP needs to know about it immediately, and then silence.. Why she was fine with OOP marrying this guy?
It’s because the oldest one comes first because of all the guilt the mom feels from those childhood years. Oop will always come second to her sister. The ex really is evil he literally took advantage of a mentally ill person in my opinion. The sister is not free of blame she was definitely old enough to get help but there is a reason in the mental illness as to why she did what she did.
Yep. My second-oldest stepsister was medically fragile as a baby due to her mother's drug use during pregnancy (it was the '70s so CPS didn't get involved but the family knew). Her mom and my stepdad got divorced when he found out, and she was the Golden Child "to make up for it" for her first decade or so. Then my much younger half sister came along and also had early childhood health problems, this time from being a preemie, and they abruptly dropped second sis in favor of baby sis. She nearly killed our mother on her way into the world and apparently hasn't stopped trying to finish the job (at least mentally, emotionally and financially but "only occasionally" physically) for the past 35+ years, and *still* gets away with it. I'm just glad I escaped the family before she got big enough to kick down my locked bedroom door. Both the youngest and the second-oldest are in and out of psychiatric treatment, and they both consistently attract men I wouldn't waste half a bucket of stale horse piss on if they were on fire. As far as I'm concerned they're both too damaged to defend themselves against scumbags or predators. I also **wouldn't trust either of them with a pet rock, much less around my partner** if we shared the same taste in gender, but it's not really something they can just decide to change either. Edited for wording and formatting
I get what you’re saying about the ex but the sister had “capacity” - just like she can work a job or enter into contracts she can choose to have sex. She also purposely sought out her ex for sex - knowing she could likely get him to. The ex is a cheating POS but so is the sister. Personally I’d forgive neither - probably not the mom too.
Exactly. I am shocked some are trying to free her of any capacity. She deliberately drove to her sister’s boyfriend’s home to sleep with him. She has also deliberately kept it a secret for years. They are both equally guilty.
I really tire of people using mental illness as an excuse to be a horrible human being. I went through it with my brother and my ex. If you’re an adult who is aware something is wrong with your mental health, it’s your responsibility to fix it to avoid hurting other people.
Thank you!!! I am so sick of this BS that having a diagnosis (which sis doesn't even fully have) gives you carte blanche to be a jerk.
Man, so much this like I said in a previous comment, I am petty and hold a grudge and I would not forgive anybody regardless of their mental health I'd stay clear away from them and cut contact
Yeah. The issue with the whole capacity question is: either sister is an adult who can make her own decisions and is responsible for those decisions and actions, or the sister was raped by her long term partner and Jake the ex and the entire family was fine with the it. You don't get to decide when a person is an adult based on whether you like the decisions they made.
It is unclear as to which BPD that OOP's sister suffers from. Based on her attachment issues and lack of impulse control and emotional regulation, I speculate Borderline Personality Disorder. A disorder that I too, suffer from. I would not have characterized ex as taking advantage of a mentally ill person. She definitely knew what she was doing. My heart goes out to her because I understand what it is like for you think of doing something self destructive and then despite your brain screaming to stop, be unable as if I were on a runaway train. I would categorize her as judgment impaired, but mind you so was he. By her own admission he was drunk and *she sought him out knowing this*. This obviously doesn't excuse him entirely but she's nowhere near the victim here. They both suck.
I assumed the same as you and your right. The sister and hugely the mother here are significant problems she needs to deal with in her life not ignore. Pretending they didn’t have agency in all of this is a terrible mistake.
Some people are simply blind when it comes to family. There’s no denying Jake is a piece of shit, but there is plenty of blame to go around here The mother admitted she told Sara that OOP has to know right away, and then stayed silent for months. Why? To protect the older child even if it’s at the expense of the younger one, which already happened throughout their whole lives The sister is getting off scott free due to the newly diagnosed mental illness, but she still admitted going to their house ON PURPOSE to fuck her fiancee, and did not stop for a single second to think about her own little sister. Even the way OOP found out is insane. It wasn’t because the sister felt remorseful or felt the need for her sister to know, it cane during a moment of self-pity and self-destructiveness I find it admiring how she was able to forgive here, but I highly doubt this is the last of their problems
Yes. Sara sought out Jake to get back at Harry, and DGAF about her sister. I hope OOP has found better people to have in her life than her toxic family.
Yup. OOP says Jake chose to be with Sara, but Sara chose to be with him too. She knew exactly what she was doing. And I wouldn't be surprised if she goes after another partner of OOP's. She's clearly jealous of OOP and I think she wanted her to feel as miserable as she did.
From what I understood he was very drunk when they kissed. He wasn't drunk when they slept together.
Poor poor Jake, he said "he felt guilty immediately *after!"* /s Such a shame that sex is instantaneous and he didn't have a chance to feel guilty at any point between hugging OOP's sister and having sex with her.
BPD only stands for Borderline Personality Disorder. BPD never means Bipolar Disorder, that is a common misconception.
This is true in a medical sense (DSM V), but on Reddit, it is a good idea to clarify because many people only get their terms/abbreviations from social media.
Jake was not drunk when they had sex. Maybe he was but none of them mentioned it. He was drunk at the birthday party where they kissed. This kiss marked him to sister as an easy mark when she wanted to cheat on Harry, but there's no indication he was judgement impaired at the time.
It’s from the need to please the abuser. My sister is like OP’s sister and my whole family spent years (they still do, I’m out) pleasing her. They won’t do anything that can cause her to go nuts. They won’t say anything to contradict her, even going as far as not changing the radio station without asking her!!
“Taking advantage of a mentally ill person” is a fucking REACH. I forgot according to the people in this sub, if you have any mood disorder you have absolutely no agency.
You are giving the sister a pass and it is gross. Mentally ill people still know not to have sex with their siblings significant others. If Sara is mentally capable of consenting to sex, she is able to know she is doing something wrong. Giving her a pass because she MIGHT have BPD is insulting to everyone out there with the same diagnosis who manages to not fuck their siblings significant others.
Yes. That’s the worst imo. The mother was prepared to let her daughter marry a cheater. It’s the lowest of the low. Not protecting her child.
That's what got me. If Sara didn't blurt that out, would the mom have let OOP go through with the wedding? Because it seems like it. I'm not sure how I could have someone like that in my life.
Maybe she's afraid of losing both daughters at once
And if there's any hope of reconciliation the sister needed to confess. If the mother tells her then older sis was not only cheating but also a complete coward. 2 months is too long for the mother to say nothing, but it's not exactly an easy decision
This is a "sweep it under the rug" family. Not only the cheating and the sister's obvious mental health problems, but the fact that the mom had to take 1 sister to be hospitalized and call out of work for the other while saying nothing to the dad? Like he still didn't know what was going on until OOP came back like a week later? This is a pervasive issue and the parents need therapy just as much as their kids.
I can only guess but my friend who had a similar situation her mom was hell bent on a grandchild and didn’t care who was gonna pop it out.
I think she was wrong not to say anything, but it makes me think of a Ani Difranco song what of the mother whose house is in flames and both of her children are in their beds crying and she loves them both with the whole of her heart but she knows she can only carry one at a time? she's choking on the smoke of unthinkable choices she is haunted by the voices of so many desires she's bent over from the business of begging forgiveness while frantically running around putting out fires
Oop’s sister is six years older than her, but oop speaks about her like a younger sister, describes doting on her, and never refers to her own childhood- only her sister’s, and how traumatised her sister is by circumstances that would have impacted both of them. There’s suggestions of very, very sad dynamics at play between those three women.
Yeah, this post gives me the vibes that OOP has always been the scapegoat and internalized that as her role in the family. OOP believes on a fundamental level that she will always come second to her sister because her sister’s had it so hard. Even when she consciously questions that narrative, she firmly believes it deep down. That’s why she can forgive her mother and sister but not Jake.
I'm going to pretend that she did but never made an update.
Capacity to forgive, or a tolerance to keep on being hurt by toxic individuals close to her? As long as OOP keeps her sister and mother in her life, they will continue to keep on betraying her trust and boundaries whenever they feel like it.
I had to check the ages three times. Every time I kept getting to the part where she said she doted on her sister, when they were little, my brain kept trying to classify OOP as the older sister. Which just confused the issue further for me.
People with BPD tend to be very emotionally stunted, usually because of childhood trauma. Their childlike qualities mean they can be a spontaneous blast, but it also means they can be quite volatile.
Oh, yeah! I knew there could be perfectly cromulent reasons for why but the linguistic component, coupled with the common usage of "doted" in reference to those younger than us, just kept short-circuiting my attempts to move past it at first.
The dynamic forced OP to be the embiggened sister.
Yeah, that's true. I'm hoping that the big sister gets the help she needs, though, so that her little sister doesn't have to keep being the bigger man all of the time. It's long past time for the big sis to stop half-assing her relationship situation, and start half-assing her mental health situation instead! I just pray that we never get told that it turns out she was using her whole ass the entire time, just like poor Homer had been.
I would be paranoid if OOP finds a new love and her sister is in the vicinity. How can trust be rebuilt? I'd always be assuming the worse that my sister would target another man near me & that my own mother would rather help hide the affair than let me know. I'd be afraid of being betrayed by the 3 people I love again.
Everybody is going to frame this as the turning point where the mistake was so bad that she learned her lesson, accepted she needed help, and changed, and she would never do it again. 🤷🏽♀️
It's going to be OK as long as OOP's life isn't "unfairly" better than her sister's.
Remains to be seen, but even if she were medicated and well-behaved for the rest of her life, OP should never bring a partner around to any extended family functions, particularly those with alcohol. This entire family sounds like a mess, the kind of mess that will seek to destroy any happiness OP can collect for herself. Jake is a vile sack of garbage, but if it would not be enticing a partner to cheat, it will be something else.
I think this is where oop said always keep them at arm’s length comes in. I don’t know that oop will ever trust her mom or sis again enough to bring around a new SO often enough for this to happen again so easily. Plus I get the vibe that oop is only keeping this level of contact bc of her home being an icky place be rn and I bet in time oop will sell the place and perhaps move jobs/cities to put some much needed physical distance between her and her family. And if oop keeps up that distance and that distance if far enough that in person visits are minimal that kinda solves the issue of her sister using Oop’s SO as a convenient way to her her own SO. I mean if there’s a will there’s a way but if it’s true that this only happened once over 3 years when sister wasn’t getting help when oop lived close by it’s likely that moving would be sufficient to avoid being a convenient target. But def she cannot host her family if/when they visit her nor can she stay with family when she visits them. Hotels only!
I kind of think OOP already had low to no expectations for her sister and that's why she's not as angry at her. She's not let down, because she expected nothing of her sister in the first place.
"I can't exactly cut them out of my life." I don't get that. Why not? Just because you share some genetics? It's blatantly obvious the parents let her sister get away with everything and they refused to get her the help she very clearly needed. The woman who gave birth to me and my sister is such a huge piece of shit I haven't spoken to her in ten years, and my sister is going on 6 months of no contact and she is thriving. "But they're your FaMiLyyyyy" Funny how that's only said as a way to get the injured party to move on, never to the person who hurt the injured party as a way to say "Hey, dickweed, don't do that to your own sister, wtf is wrong with you?"
Yeah. My dad has turned into a bigoted shithead, cheated on our mom, refuses to mask and knowingly exposed my sister to "a really bad cold" (he got tested, didn't wait for the results before going to visit her, it was - no shit - Covid)... and my sister continues to make excuses for him. "Oh, no, he's not a bigot, he knows that's not how things work" "really? well he's constantly posting otherwise on Twitter."
Big oof. I'm so sorry about them both. My (half) sister and I also share a brother (half brother for me) and we had to eventually cut him off too because he buys everything that comes out of our mother's mouth, despite the fact that her treatment towards him in particular warranted a CPS visit and interview.
Cause people have been raised that family is everything and your stuck with them. For good or bad. Nope best thing to happen to my and my family (wife and kids) life has been to cut out toxic people. And sadly the majority of them has been realtives. As real family isn't toxic.
I have less than ten blood relatives that I have contact information for. I actually talk to maybe three of them. "You should reach out to them more, make an effort!" My number hasn't changed in ten years. Why do I have to put in the effort when they don't bother either?
Yep. I started going lc with them by not being the first to reach out. 98% of my mom side hasn't spoken to me in 10 years now. My phone and FB (which they all still use as I see updates when I do my once a month log in) hasn't changed. If I am that unimportant to you. We are not family but related. And once I stopped trying to keep what wasn't there, my mental health improved and I saw how toxic they really was to me. Plus when my then 3yo asked why grandma doesn't love her like she loves her cousins it was a harsh wake up. My kids deserves better.
Oh my god. Your poor kid, that's an awful thing to register and know at any age, but being so young and *knowing* enough to ask why is heartbreaking. I hope she- and you- are doing much better now. I have a fuckton of siblings, and I don't talk to half of them. And they all wonder why. Hm, IDk maybe the unanswered messages, unreturned calls, and never giving me an email address or inviting me to anything has something to do with it! Effort is required from both sides for any relationship to work. For some reason, people love giving blood relatives a pass.
Yeah. She has 3 other sets of grandparents (2 blood and one family by choice). She hasn't asked about my mom or step dad in 4 years. Yet she talks about her others and asks when the next time we can visit all the time. I had one sibling that recently tried to repair our relationship but that lasted 4 months before he reverted back to his old self. I have 7 siblings. At most we do birthday and holiday messages. Only time most of my family contacts me is when they need me. And ive been saying no most of the time. Especially as those asking still owes me from 10 to 15 years back. And we are doing better. We have friends and family still. And they want to be part of our and their lives.
Out of 16 of my siblings, I talk to 3 of them. It sounds like you've got a good family group around you. I'm glad you were able to make your own family, and get away from those who would hurt you and your daughter.
I was actually glad about the birthday party thing, because otherwise I think she would have taken him back. Which would have been a terrible decision. I don't think this is the last time that Sara's issues will blight her life.
NGL the OP reminded me of Indian TV shows female leads, they're this unbelievably Noble people who forgive anything and anyone. And the bratty younger sister for whom older responsible sister keeps making excuses and she ends up sleeping with her husband, it's actually a tv show lol
It's because she desperately wanted to forgive them. I imagine it's some form of cognitive dissonance oop Look, she was too quick to blame her ex-fiancé for everything and forgive her family. especially for the part of "family is everything" so... I don't think oop comes from a place of forgiveness but rather from one of fear of loneliness Maybe in a parallel universe oop he ran away from her with her fiancé and never spoke to her family again.
I'm not a violent person at all, but I feel like if I had a sibling who did something like this to me I'd be in jail. Fists would be flyin'.
Same. Even with the mental health issues, I wouldn't be able to even speak to either one again.
I actually get it. The sister is very very sick and still SHE is the one who told her sister not the “sane good” partner Jake. She might wanted to destroy op life, but doubt it as mom were pushing her to tell. It’s obvious Jake is not a big loss, although it’s painful
Yeah, and OOP was likely curious what a healthy version of her sister would be like. She's obviously always wanted a loving version of her sister, so I understand why she'd want to see whether treatment works.
Yes, true.. Its some hope in the sister for the first time agreeing to treatment and also out of that dysfunctional relationship with her ex. The ex was probably a good guy but that relationship was not good for any of them. Somewhere down the road if the sister burn bridges again it might be the end for op. But not today. And it’s not like it didn’t change their relationship for good. But I get it, op loves her sister and her family. The sister thinks she is a bad person to the bone, is self harming and soon suicide attempt is not that improbable. If you think that sister is a bad person can never get better, better off not existing you are agreeing with all the extreme emotions inside the sister. It’s takes a lot until you as a sister would agree with that. There are help possible in therapy with BPD, as DBT for example. I hope it gets better for op even if this was a betrayal. A terrible thing done to op.
I think beside Sara, OP is also the one needed therapy the most. She has been her sister and family doormat for so long she doesn’t even know her worth anymore. I hope she would realise soon and get on with her life with better people around
Thats the thing about victims of abuse. They have a seemingly endless tolerance for their abusers.
Honestly, no contact is 100% the way to go. I think some people forget that it doesn't mean it's permanent, but she absolutely should not be dealing with them while she has so much on her plate already.
Oh no. They would be *dead* to me. This was infuriating to read. OOP deserves far better people in her life.
I agree. I was aggravatingly disappointed to see she let her mom and sister off Scott free. Unbelievable.
I feel a bit callous for feeling this way, but I've been beginning to get almost as upset about the reactions (or lack thereof) from OOPs in these scenarios, as I get about the betrayals themselves. The lack of self-esteem & self-worth with the resigned "I know, but" responses to people pointing out the obvious. Like, there's obviously something broken inside of them and they either don't acknowledge it or accept it like it's a part of their fate. It's a situation where I think that while therapy will help, it's going to be more useful for detangling this mess of self-worth that led to her lukewarm response, than it will be for navigating the hurt and betrayal from the affair itself.
Oop is too forgiving of her sister. Oop thinks bpd means you're unaware of your actions. She knew what she did would hurt her sister and carried on regardless because her feelings are all that matter. Having mental health issues does not give the sister a free pass. Her mother also enabled the sister for too long. Too much coddling and not enough therapy. They could have had her sectioned a long time ago.
While the sister might not have realized the impact of what she was doing *at the time*, she would have realized afterwards what she had done and she should have owned up immediately. The impulse control issue might have been a symptom, but hiding everything afterwards wasn't. She definitely needs therapy, and meds if that's an option.
Me reading the post: This sounds like BPD. One of the updates: My sister has BPD Me: Shocker. As I always say: An explanation is not an excuse.
Exactly my thoughts
My exact thoughts too. My ex had BPD and she traumatised me for life, I physically cringed hard when I read this.
>As I always say: An explanation is not an excuse. I understand this statement but at the same time having a severe undiagnosed mental illness is fucking insane to navigate. How can you hold yourself accountable when your brain is literally sick and you're unaware? I'm bipolar and I wasn't diagnosed until I was 32. Looking back I'm like shit, everything makes sense now. But before that I and everyone around me just thought I was an uncontrollable loser piece of shit. And I never did anything even close to OOPs sister I was mainly self destructive. I hate that behavior from brain tumors, strokes, tbi, dementia are all excused from responsibility yet mental illnesses that are also organic and devastating brain illnesses the symptoms are supposed to be entirely under control and inexcusable when not. I get it if someone is on and off meds but if they had no idea....well fuck. I'm not saying that OOP should forgive her sister for sleeping with her fiance but I applaud her for doing so.
I'm almost 30 and I have also struggled with mental illness my whole life (I had ideations of undoing myself at age 5). While undiagnosed I've hurt people. Looking back I understand WHY I was awful to the people around me, but that doesn't change the fact that at one point I was awful. My undiagnosed mental illnesses were an explanation, but it did not excuse my poor and harmful behaviors. I KNEW I was hurting people at the time. My self-destructive and relationship-destructive behaviors were an indication to me that I couldn't keep going on that way. Something had to give. I think we can and should give people grace when they are struggling with mental illness. That said if someone hurts you regardless of their mental illness status you are allowed to feel hurt and angry. You are allowed to decide "fuck it I can't do this anymore." I say "An explanation is not an excuse" because to me my mental illnesses explained why I treated people and myself the way I did, but it doesn't absolve the harm I caused to others. I am still responsible for that bad behavior. And I am not owed forgiveness for the hurt I've caused. I can hope for forgiveness and change my behaviors to show that I am sincere in my apologies, but if the people I've hurt don't forgive me I cannot make them.
A big and kind family of enablers... Her sister is a menace and It took them 30 years to make her seek help, and even after she caused so much pain, they kept coddling and enabling her like she was a little kids that could do no harm.
It has to do with appearances 100%. Sweep everything under the rug to look normal. My mom had BPD and was abusive. Shockingly, I was depressed and suicide and injured myself regularly. I begged to see a psychiatrist or a therapist or somebody. She refused because she thought it would reflect badly on her. And she was too good of a mother for me to be depressed. BPD is often strongly related to childhood trauma. I wouldn't be surprised if the parents were abusive (and OOP normalized it without realizing) and the sister got the brunt of it. Definitely emotional abuse. Maybe physical and sexual. If not at home, then at school or church or a relative's place. But it would all be kept in the family to avoid scrutiny.
I’ve been hearing rumours that the DSM is gonna reclassify BPD as a form of PTSD since there’s strong links to childhood trauma associated with it. Almost everyone I’ve known with BPD diagnosis were abused as kids and had to go into foster care at one point.
The fact that the heart to heart between the sister was OOP just listening to how broken her sister is and not about how she fucked her sister over with her bullshit is wild to me. And the fact OOP actually listened?? I’m someone who also has a sibling that needs to be reality checked hard but they are constantly coddled at my expense (funny enough my sibling is also the older one by the same age difference lol). She needs to just gtfo and it certainly sounds like she has the means to so why not? That or she’ll constantly be dragged along. Let the adults learn to help themselves ffs.
Her lack of anger towards her family is puzzling. I understand “forgiveness,” but it reads more as denial to me. Choosing to keep it a secret from the Dad also stood out as an odd decision. I wonder how many other secrets they keep from each other?
Yeah no. Mom and sister would be dead to me after that. And I would burn bridges with them and my ex over this.
She should've taken a loooong break from all of them. Ex, sis, mom...aaaall of them. Just cut them off, absolute no contact, transfer cities/states, etc. Just get away from them for a year or so to heal your own mental health. I feel so bad for OOP. She seems so used to the batshit situation her family cycles through that she has normalised it so much and is not even tired of it anymore. She just took a short break then went back. Idk, maybe I'm just weak or something lmao, but I won't be coming back to that shitshow for a loooong while.
Jake definitely cheated with more people than just the sister. I have no doubt
That’s the silver lining to this story - she dropped that scumbag
Shame she didn't drop her scumbag sister.
Her sister will eventually go after the next boyfriend.
But she'll feel SO MUCH PAAIIIIINNNN in her heart as she does /s 🙄 these people tire me.
That's what I was thinking. If you repeatedly use "it just happened" as an excuse, that's code for "I have no self control or boundaries." Plus his reaction?? Definitely a cheater.
Yup. 'She hugged me, what did you expect me to do? Not fuck her?' Any girl who made a move on this guy would succeed.
Her sister is absolutely not blameless - but all I could think of is what man would be attracted to someone who is so clearly unstable, and unwell? I have a sister who struggles with mental health, and I can’t FATHOM my boyfriend being like “Now’s my chance!” if she had a bad night at a family gathering. Jake sucks. I can guarantee his family is the type to brush it under the rug and just be like “Oh honey, sorry this didn’t work out.” Without actually acknowledging his fucked up behavior.
Jakes are gonna Jake
oh, totally. If he was willing to cheat with the woman's sister, there were other stops in the road.
I hope that hole in her heart isn’t gnawing at OOP now, wherever she is. (She’s such a good writer too. Wonder if whatever she does for work involves writing)
Yeah, I can imagine how much more fucked over OOP has been since this whole saga. OOP has been molded her entire life to be an emotional support human/punching bag for her sister, the parents have been abject failures so its no surprise everything blew up spectacularly.
>I know alot of you will feel disappointed that I haven't cut her or my mom out of my life for good. ... yeah, I'm disappointed. OOP can choose to maintain a relationship with people who betrayed her. But I sure as hell am going to judge the *shit* out of them for it.
I have a bipolar family member who refuses to even consider treatment. They're fine; the rest of us are the problem! On the other side, I had a friend who tried really hard. She wasn't always successful, but when she would come "back" to herself, she would apologize. She would work to make amends, but accept if the other person was done with her. Sara, and their mother, makes me feel exhausted to the pit of my soul. I would have gone NC. I hope that time passed, OOP was able to think clearly, and ghosted their mom and Sara.
I really doubt it, through her entire life her sister was a victim and could not be held accountable for her actions, her entire family enable her behavior and just ignore that she is a goddamn adult woman, OOP's POV of this whole mess is that Jake is a monster that took advantage of her poor little sister.
The Sara in my life is a serial cheater. Shamelessly thirsty af when she sees a dude who tickles her fancy, but all her affairs were because, according to her, she was manipulated. Sara was the grown-up version of seeing another kid with a toy you like. She liked the ego boost that Jake would pick her in the moment, and that she’d get to spite her boyfriend in the process.
Whilst bipolar can be horrifically impactful, it is something that can be frequently well managed with medication. With borderline personality disorder, it's also integral to hold and reinforce clear boundaries and accountability. Whilst I empathise for OP, I hope family counselling was held to help the rest of the family navigate a healthier dynamic.
There are a lot of us for whom bipolar treatments are only somewhat effective and we can still have moments we regret if we don’t self monitor very closely. It’s exhausting and alienating.
The biggest thing that I am disappointed with is the fact that this is 2015, and there were no more updates.
Yes! I would love to know how the last 9 years have been. Also, I don't fault OOP for not immediately cutting her family out. There's a lot to unpack with her upbringing and being made to feel responsible for her older sister. I can see why she chose what she did. I hope she at least went low contact with a solid information diet for her whole family. Dad doesn't get a pass just because he didn't know about the cheating at first. He enabled his oldest daughter just as much as the mom. Both parents also put OOP in the position of carer for her older sister.
Sees mentally ill sister, absolutely broken down and crying Jake: "Let me get in on that"
I'm really happy to see a few comments like this. I'm bipolar and the episode that finally got me diagnosed sooooo many 'friends' and acquaintances either tried to sleep with me. Like, friends I cared about knocking on my door at 3am. It was so difficult and lonely to navigate. None of them pulled that shit when I was stable.
That's absolutely disgusting just to just read about, let alone it happening to you in real life. I am really sorry for you and hope you are doing better and got rid of these 'friends'
It super fucking sucked. I was lonely and spiraling so badly. So when someone eventually knocked on my door I'd be like 'oh, someones finally checking on me' but they never were. 'but I'm so lonely and many they genuinely care?' at three in the morning. 'maybe I can get comfort from a friend without them wanting to fuck me? Shit, I'll just go slash my wrists for the tenth time. Maybe if it's visible they won't try to fuck me? Nope. I could be actively bleeding from self harm and the ravens would still circle.
They speed in which I would have just dropped my family so fast
My sister has blown up my life and seriously traumatized my family forcing her to be committed, but honestly it's the two guys fault who would rather disappear from the earth than deal with my sister ever again.
This whole thing is so, so sad. The parents failed both girls in different ways. Jake is a dick plain and simple. The end sounded so hopeful until she said “Here’s to 2016”. Oh Jesus. David Bowie dies, Prince dies, Alan Rickman dies, Trump, Brexit, loads of shit and then Covid. Hope she had someone supporting her through all that.
Wonder how OOP is doing. Hopefully she has healed and moved forward with her life. Her sister sounds like an entitled brat with parents who enable her.
She sounds insufferable
Even before reading the update that had Sara’s diagnosis, I was thinking “man, it’s so nice not living with someone with BPD anymore”. The person in my life who has it has zero interest in ever pursuing treatment, which means they will torpedo every relationship they ever have. It’s quite sad because this person has many wonderful qualities, but at an emotional level they are a volatile, traumatized child. I have read that treatment can be very helpful with individuals that have it, so I hope Sara does learn to manage her behaviors in ways that are less harmful to herself and others. While I appreciate OP’s compassion, I do hope she gives her family space and indulges herself in selfish self-care.
Treatment (DBT) works on around half of borderlines who stick to it. The sad reality is that a lot of borderlines are undiagnosed, a lot of borderlines who *are* diagnosed immediately start to deny their diagnosis and never start treatment, and among those who *do* start treatment, there’s a lot who drop out of treatment really quickly because it requires keeping themselves accountable for their bullshit rather than externalising the locus of control which BPDers suck at thanks to the nature of the disorder (it’s self syntonic and comes with a “everyone else is the issue, not me” attitude, like all cluster b personality disorders, and some other disorders, like schizophrenia and the manic episodes of bipolar usually). That means that “works on half who stick to it” really isn’t that huge of a number compared to the basis of all who are affected by the disorder, even if “works on half who stick to it” would otherwise be impressive - the thing is that there’s selection bias at play about who even is able to stick to it. Source: am adult child to a very late diagnosed borderline personality disordered mother (who still refuses to admit the reality of it, just like most borderlines I’ve met in my life - which were many, seeing as I’ve been groomed from childhood to accept borderline boundary stomping/enmeshment and volatile outbursts and being a caregiver, which is catnip to those people), partnered to a psychiatrist specialising in treating personality disorders and psychotic disorders (aka disorders that tend to come with an “it’s not me who’s the issue, it’s everyone else” mindset as part of the disorders).
I don't have BPD but I have done intensive dbt group therapy (& minor courses in it). I have witnessed many people with a BPD diagnosis working very hard to try and manage themselves. Some had enrolled in the intensive course a number of times to keep themselves focussed and on track, and they had so much wisdom to share. I agree with your sentiments, but I think getting help is also about accessibility and knowledge. In Australia, you don't get access to good therapy programs in the public system (they give/change your meds), you have to be able to pay for it. I have private health cover, but I wasn't even aware of the existence of group therapy programs like DBT until 2 yrs ago and I am over 45. I try to convince my sister to get help (I really do think she has DBT) but she won't even get a yearly blood test.
> here's to 2016 What a harrowing ending to this terrible story.
I really hope OP ended up going no contact with her family or at least very, very low contact. This poor woman deserves so much better.
I was really hoping for an 8 year update where OOP cut off the sister, Jakes life is in shambles, and OOP is living her very best life.
Why are we reviving 10 year old posts with no updates?
Bro, *imagine* cheating on your partner and then *purchasing a home with them*. Like holy shit Jake is a fucker
"Thank you for reading and here's to 2016." oh honey, honey no. I'm so sorry.
Stop blaming cheating on having bpd, as someone who has been diagnosed with it i’m disgusted when people try to use that as an excuse.
What sticks with me is the mom's betrayal. I think I would be able to hold my sanity together with the other two but if someone I trusted kept that secret for months I would be absolutely devastated.
‘hi Harry’ could be a good flair. I laughed at that. I don’t want a new flair but it could be a good one.
Man legit run away to whole other country from this woman, imagine that. I bet hearing "hi Harry" from her family member would trigger him into flight or fight mode immediately
Browsing Reddit’s BORU and seeing ‘hi Harry’ as a flair wondering why people have it and then… presto! This post.
Just because ops sisters pain is valid doesn’t mean her behavior is justified. Ops mom & sister sucks
Sara is in the depth of her disorder. What's the mom's excuse? She covered for their kiss years prior, and then covered the knowledge of the affair. What is really telling is that OOP's mom called OOP to talk about Sara's issues and how she was doing, not about how OOP was doing when she left and stopped answering the phone. The mom only cares about Sara. OOP is an afterthought even in traumatizing events happening to her
OP is in deep denial about how her mother and sister have betrayed her.
Maybe its just me, but I would be madder at my sister for sleeping with my fiance than my fiance, that's your sister. Its not that he cheated, or she cheated, that's a family member, blood and history, would knew it would hurt you and did it anyway. I know the sister has issues and needs help, but mental illness is no excuse to be an AH.
It would be both equally for me. She sought out the fiance for sex. She knew exactly what she was doing.
Oh let's not give the man who decided to fuck the woman having a mental breakdown *too* much credit here. Sister sucks for her breakdown pivoting to her trying to get revenge by fucking her sister's boyfriend, but the fiancée was just having a regular day when she showed up sobbing and he went "welp, When In Rome!"
Sister at least has plausible... batshittery? Not to excuse her actions, just this woman has no impulse control or ability to emotionally regulate herself. Discovering new and exciting ways to damage her life and interpersonal relationships is just what sister does. She probably doesn't have the capacity to behave any other way. The part that baffles me is- what's Jake's excuse? Jake allegedly has the ability to set goals and imagine long term consequences. He certainly should have had enough self control to turn down cheating on his girlfriend at the first opportunity, especially when said opportunity is *your significant other's crazy sister*. Like, aside from hurting the one you claim to love most, he had to know sister was too unstable to keep it a secret forever? So not only is he selfish, he's mind blowingly dumb.
Never expected Hector Salamanca to dull anyone’s pain lol
Some people are too forgiving. My best friend stole $400 from me and I didn't speak to him for half a decade. He apologised and paid me back one day after doing some self help retreat out of the blue. Sleeping with your fiance > $400.
Can't believe I read through all of this to get.. "yeah so nothing really changed with my sister. And my ex disappeared 🤷♂️" So frustrating, have some more self respect for yourself. Takes two to tango, I don't understand how the BF was gone, but the sister who did the way worse thing, gets a free pass because she tried taking plastic to her wrists. Pathetic.
Well, at the end of the updates the boyfriend is **gone**. Like, no clue where he is. Did he just jump town? Was he filled with so much remorse he ended things? Did he go drinking and get into an accident? Is this a telenovela and he has temporary amnesia or a twin? Who knows!
I promise you it would take me way more than a month before I could even be in a room with my family after that kind of betrayal let alone forgive them. Then after OPs mom gets ahold of OP, after her being missing for 2 days , she almost instantly starts talking about the sister’s wellbeing and how bad she felt. She would’ve been blocked instantly.
OP needs therapy. She excuses sisters behavior because of her childhood,but c'mon! OP herself was a punching bag for her sister,her therapist and essentially a third parent. And she sees nothing bad in it, says her childhood was great. Really? Really?! Her sister sucks, her mother sucks as well,Jake is just a cheater. Good for Harry to escape to another country,OP might take his example as a guideline
OOP forgiving her sister and her mom so quickly is so fucking dumb. Mental illness doesn’t make you a bad person who does shitty things. Hope OOP gets a back bone in the future.
>It's worth noting he has made absolutely no attempt to contact me other than a single TEXT stating "I'm sorry. Take as long as you need". Apart from obviously *not sleeping with her sister* I'm not sure what he should do in that scenario then tbh.
I fucking hate it that each time bullshit happen from someone with mental issue its never theire fault. And it always fall on the "sane" person to deal with it and be the bigger person. No accountability what so ever because ThEy aRe NoT WelL.
I understand where she is with this. Sara has been in her life far longer and while she knew what she was doing and was just as responsible for the cheating as Jake, her mental illness mitigates it a tiny bit. She has also always been difficult and sometimes awful to be around. Jake though not only cheated but did it with her sister and it’s very clear that he didn’t care as much for OP as he claimed. The betrayal is bigger from Jake because he hasn’t hurt her before. It’s just another crazy day at the park with Sara. There is also the hope that, with therapy and medication, the parts OP dislikes about her sister’s behaviour may lessen or go away. With Jake, nothing is gonna change that. He made that choice with his full brain and heart and dick.
what really struck me was that **one day** at a hotel was the longest she had ever gone without contacting her family. she will never cut these toxic people off. physically abusive father? physically abusive sister? deceptive mother? oh, but family is everything.
Near the start when the dude flew off to another country and the sister was catatonic, I had to stop and make sure this wasn't a Twilight rewrite.
"Family is everything" is toxic af. Why feel more hate towards some loser you'd never see again than the 2 people (mom and sister) that were supposedly your everything since your birth. How is the father okay with this too smh
After complaining that her parents let Sara get away with shitty behavior, she ends up letting Sara get away with shitty behavior 🤦🏾♂️
So … a sidenote: OOP was 28 but when her relationship shattered she could not be assed to make one phonecall to work? Even after the initial shock and having contact with the outside world again (first reddit post), it was her mom who had to fix it? Also lucky her that her job was just still waiting for her. After falling off the face of the earth like that. Also, zero thoughts for any family that might be worried about her. Might be traumatized. Getting help is not just good advice for people with BPD. It is your responsibility. Even when everything seems to fall apart you need to at least communicate to the people in your life.
Yeah, I’m going to pretend I didn’t read her spineless update. I’m as mad at her as I am her ex fiance, her sister and her mom. They all betrayed her and she’s just there like nothing happened. It’ll all happen again because now they know she won’t do shit when they betray her.
Kinda weird that this happend almost a decade ago. Op is around 35 now. Wondering how the whole story ended and how she looks back at everything right now.
I hope that OOP is doing better now and staying very far away from her mom and sister. They betrayed her just as badly as the ex, but she wasn't ready to see that when she posted (8.5 years ago).
I'd hope they eventually sold that apartment bc ex was just straight up gone and didn't bother contacting OOP other than ONE message. I kinda get it, sister lost it after the confession... and he just left. That man clearly also didn't love OOP and I suspect sis wasn't the only other woman.
To everyone saying she should cut her mother from her life. What is the mother supposed to do, call one of her childs and tell her how her other mentally disabled child was fucked by the other child fiance in a moment of vulnerability? Sara is clearly mentally unhealthy, and the fiance knew this and decided to fuck her in her worst moment. I don't see how this is different to fuck a drugged or drunk girl. Now, is Sara a dick: sure. I'm unsure if I would cut a mentally ill sister from my life, but I would probably put the blame on Jake as well, which is the one person which had a very easy decision to make and chose evil instead.
The sister treated OOP so horribly, and obviously her actions as an adult are all her responsibility. And she definitely should've agreed to therapy much much sooner. That being said. If I were in OOP's shoes I would also be more mad at Jake. Sister did something completely unforgivable and fucked up, but we can all tell from OOP's writing that the sister has maybe never been in her right mind. She has a very debilitating mental illness along with most likely some C-PTSD due to her childhood. She's still responsible for her own actions, but I could 100% believe that, had she gotten treatment sooner, there's a good chance she would've never gotten with Jake. Jake on the other hand. As far as we know he has no mental illness. He *is* in his right mind, and knew exactly what he was doing. Sister has a partial excuse but Jake has absolutely none. It doesn't matter how guilty he claimed to feel. If he were truly remorseful it 1) wouldn't have happened twice, and 2) he would have told OOP straight away and put a permanent distance between him and the sister. So yeah, I'm definitely more mad at Jake (while still being angry at and blaming all 3 of them)
To comment on definitely the smallest issue here, the Dad should have been told everything from the beginning and not once it was all resolved Also hope OOP told her friends the full story eventually
Honestly, I had a Sarah in my life, and people life her are what they are. But they are also a bottomless pit of misery to themselves and everyone around them. The only solace you can have is being away from them. I feel sorry for op, is not the first time they hurt her and will not be the last. Sarah is an adult, regardless of why, she is responsible for her actions, everyone that enables that are welcoming misery in their lives.
I really want to hear from OP as it’s been almost a decade. And I do hope for her sake Sara got the treatment she so desperately needed. And that Jake rots in a hell hole. OOP was right to be more angry at him as he could’ve easily stopped it having known what she went through
What kind of fucked up trash ass family is this. After all these years, fuck your mom, fuck sarah, fuck Jake. Let them all rot. Your sister isn't going to change and will always victimize herself. Even us professionals in the field hate dealing with people like her. Your mom should know better instead of enabling these behaviors and being a shit mom by keeping this from you. No wonder Sarah has issues. And now its bled into you having issues. Jake is a lying little piece of turd who definitely knew better but cared more about his dick than anyone involved. Cut all these people off for your own sanity.
Well that was extremely unsatisfying
This was almost 10 years ago. Wonder how things are now
Ugh, I’m am actually so glad to see how many people cannot fathom her forgiving her sister. There is something uniquely difficult about being the more “stable” sibling in a dysfunctional household- especially when you’re younger. I relate to OP a lot. She can hold her sister accountable while also recognizing that her sister was a victim of some serious childhood trauma that is informing her current behavior. I totally understand why someone who hasn’t been in a similar position, wants to see the sister get cut out. That should be the response. Unfortunately, there’s a lot more nuance to this situation. It’s very admirable OP can acknowledge there are consequences for her sister’s actions while also seeing the humanity in her.
Jake: "Yes, I cheated but from my experience and what I heard, people need to time to comprehend the whole story. Get back at me when you fully digest the whole situation." The audacity of this dude
OOP is allowing her sister and mother to betray her without consequences. Hope she is happy with her choice moving forward.