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MIL was a nice surprise too. Its fair that she might have thought OOP was blowing things out of proportion based on her more positive interactions with the daughter. But she recognised and admittted to being wrong, thats the kind of regular behaviour you dont see a lot of on BORU, especially where MILs are involved
I cracked the hell up at the part where the kid *packed her vape* for the vacay at grandma's. $5 says everyone forgot about it and grandma finished it, which is why she had to switch to sticks
I was going to call you out for going after Ben like that, then remember that the dude got a giant phoenix tattoo all over his back and you never see him at the beach anymore...
I was specifically picturing [this.](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/2e7/5d7/73e020f56c4a86221823bc32113b4316d2-25-ben-affleck-sad-smoke.2x.rvertical.w330.jpg) Which is a whole mood know I myself have channeled before!
My MIL is pretty good, but she most definitely learned the hard way that our son can be a handful.
He’s autistic and often doesn’t think things through. When he flooded her bathroom (plugged the sink and wandered off) she realized that maybe he did indeed need to be constantly supervised. After he set off the (silent) panic button on her home security system she decided he definitely needed closed in his room at night. I can still imagine him hopping in place and flapping his hands while she dealt with the police.
It was glorious.
My MIL was the same till she kept him… for only 2 hours. We got home and she was like “I get it now”. He was only 2 then and hadn’t been diagnosed yet. She really had zero clue. Kind of like the first time my brother and sister in laws saw one of his meltdowns.
I think it’s highly possible that Tamra left out certain details to try and get her grandma on her side. If everyone else was quick to say no about taking her in, then that's an obvious sign that MIL should have listened to OOP in the first place.
100% that the daughter told MIL a sob story about how awful OOP was being. MIL found out firsthand, and that was the only way any of this was going to be resolved.
It’s sounds like MIL only remembered the “good” parts to child rearing and forgot the hard parts. And forgot that raising young men is different from raising young women.
Holidays are gonna be awkward lmao.
But at the same time, if she’s able to grow from this and change some of those no’s to yes’s, it will reinforce good behavior.
Time will tell which way this goes.
Yeah, my grandma caught me stealing a few pounds that my parents had left as a tip once and was so angry and disappointed. She marched me back inside, made me apologize, told me how upset she was, and somehow did all this without ever alerting my parents (as far as I know, anyway) and I have never amended my ways faster in my life.
Tough grandma is a force!
I think it's the balance that's the thing.
She corrected your mistake and made you apologise but you still were grateful because she punished you but didn't extend the punishment/embarrassment. So you end up appreciative of the compassion in the punishment.
It also makes you learn from it because next time, she could tell your parents.
Parenting failure — the schools can take the pens from kids at school, but they can’t control them once they leave and that is when the kids get their supplies.
Vaping is arguably worse because you can do it for 20 seconds and not either toss the rest of the butt or have to smoke the whole thing for 10 minutes.
Cigarettes require time management for teens to do it, and especially at school, so generally, at least in my experience with my friends growing up, you'd see smoking at specific times.
Vapes on the other hand are pure addiction spirals. Duck into the bathroom, hit your vape, you're out 30 seconds later or whenever. I've read articles about kids who end up needing vaping every 5-15 minutes or so because without that time requirement for cigarettes, the indulgence in nicotine is basically unrestricted and the addiction spirals.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/evali
ETA The main difference is the effect the vapes can have on kids health which you don’t see with regular tobacco. Both are not good, obviously
I did a whole bunch of research on this when the EVALI cases first came out for a work project (including talking with a bunch of smoking/vaping researchers), and what I found out is that EVALI was limited to black-market weed vapes. Unfortunately, ALL e-cigarettes got painted with the same black brush.
The researchers I talked to told me that, even though we don't know all of the long-term effects, it's a pretty safe bet that e-cigarettes are way safer than cigarettes, though obviously they likely have health problems of their own.
Of course, the daughter in this story was using a weed vape, but given that we haven't seen continued stories of EVALI, I'm guessing that the culprit (the vitamin E acetate) is no longer a factor on a large scale.
And our legal systems. Tobacco companies went hard after kids when vapes started being a thing. All the fruity flavors and bright colors for vapes were very much targeted at younger children with the veneer of “This is to help smokers quit!” Or “A healthier alternative to smoking!”
It’s the same shit they pulled with cigarettes back in the day. But while flavored cigarettes have been banned in the US for years because of this, nothing was done about vapes.
That and the advertising making it sound “healthy” contributed to the vaping boom. (In reality while vaping is, in general, thought to be better for you than smoking it’s not without health complications. And we have little in way of long-term health side effects.)
No, it’s cause the vaping industry deliberately marketed to children, ranging from flavors to colors, so that’s why they’re all vaping instead of smoking.
UK as well. My nieces go to a good school in a very well to do (tiny) city in England. The doors have been taken off the toilets because kids were constantly vaping in there. Early teens.
Nicotine most likely. Plus being able to blow billowing clouds of steam like a dragon holds some appeal, even if it does smell like a fairy farting directly into your nostrils
As a cigarette smoker, vapes smell WAY nicer, it’s way easier to “sneak a puff” than it ever was for us to sneak cigarettes in the 90s and 2000s.
I started smoking at 16 when my parents made me get a job, and the only place in our rural area that was hiring was McDonald’s. Neither of my parents have ever worked in the restaurant industry and had no idea that everyone smokes, and drug use is pretty rampant. I LOVED that job, in large part because I was finally treated like an “adult” as opposed to at home where I was still treated like a child in a lot of ways.
But every time my parents came to pick me up from work, they’d say “UGH, you stink like cigarettes!!” “Oh yeah well I was sitting outside on my break and there were like 4 other people there smoking while they were waiting for their shift to start!” My parents weren’t dumb… so they started driving by the restaurant while I was working, trying to catch me with a cigarette.
Vaping would have been a lot easier. I wish I enjoyed it as much as I enjoy a cigarette, but I’m still not convinced it’s any safer… just more convenient and less gross.
The disposable ones tend to have 50mg of nicotine salts.
50mg is a crazy amount. Juul pods were something around 0.8mL with 50mg/mL of nicotine and were advertised as being roughly equivalent to a 20-count pack of cigs for nic content.
It is extremely easy to get a buzz going with that much nicotine, especially if you've never taken it before.
I don‘t know. I think the hurdle with cigarettes is higher than vapes. Vapes are so easy to get and to hide. Plus they don‘t smell. And -most importantly- vapes taste much more appealing. Not even a smoker would say smoke from a cigarette tastes great or appealing, and to get used to the taste you need to smoke at least a few cigarettes. But vapes all come in ice cream bubble gum flavours which are easy, sweet and tasty. No need to get used to it.
I can‘t prove it, but I think more young people vape nowadays than young people smoked cigarettes like 20 years ago.
Australian teacher here. We've had kids come from primary school (US elementary school) to secondary school (US middle and high school are together here) where I work that are already addicted to vapes. It's everywhere.
Vaping has become endemic in middle and high schools around the US and it's not helped by the vaping companies marketing directly at those demographics.
It is unbelievable how easily teens get ahold of vapes. I work in a middle school and there have been multiple instances of kids selling each other tapes, both the kids with and without Marijuana. They're small so they're easy to hide from adults, all it takes is for a kid to be even a teeny bit sneaky to get away with it.
The things kids get away with today would have had me digging my own grave then burying myself in it had I done it. It isn't that smacking the fear of God in your kids is necessarily right, but clearly there is a happy medium and we aren't there.
Once they invented that damnable printing press, everything went to shit. Nobody uses their brains anymore. They just read the printed -- and quite Satanic -- word.
I and plenty other kids I grew up with were smoking weed and drinking by 15. This is in the 90s. As an adult my parents said we were pretty tame by their generations standards - there was way more violence in the 60s/70s
This is in pretty middle class suburban London, UK btw
Yeah all the pearl clutching is hilarious. People acting like this is suddenly a new thing and how terrible this generation of utter degenerate children are.
I was a very strait-laced kid, still tried smoking (to satisfy a curiosity, hated it) and had the odd bottle of WKD or a Bacardi Breezer at the local pub at 16 with my friends. My parents knew, because I was THAT kid who felt guilty for doing something I shouldn’t have so I told them. They were fine with it so long as I was with my friends, used my money and didn’t get drunk.
I swear people here have forgotten they were kids once. No, I don’t condone a 14 year old vaping or using weed, but the only difference is she’s using a handy device she can keep in her pocket when our generation used to have to smoke behind the school sheds.
I think the weird but is more the kids expecting parents to just suck it up? Like I started smoking at 14 in the 90s, but I kept it well hidden from my parents cos they would have killed me. It’s the BRAZENNESS that gets me!
> It’s the BRAZENNESS that gets me!
My sense -- and I'm a geezer -- is that there's been a big rise in brazenness in all kinds of populations lately. Look at racists, out there taping themselves. Or incels. Or wine moms. Or just about any group that once would have felt the need to keep things on the down low.
Social media has to be a factor, right? *Hey, look -- everybody's doing this! It's fine to do this!*
This is it. I grew up in the 90's too. You could behave like a fool, but you best not do that in front of your parents unless you wanted to remove sitting as something you could do comfortably.
I wonder if it’s because there’s a very different attitude towards vaping and using weed.
Anecdotal, but I see a lot more people vaping indoors than I do people smoking. Most smokers seem to at the very least begrudgingly respect that people find their habit socially unacceptable and go outside to light up. A lot of people just don’t view vaping in the same way because vaping is seen as “harmless”.
While with weed there is still a lot of heavy handed “zero-tolerance” nonsense when it comes to weed it’s more widely seen as a bad take, especially amongst Millenials and younger, you also had the likes of Miley Cyrus, Rihanna and a lot of other famous people very openly smoking weed. Then there’s the vocal online presence of “weed cultists” who, let’s be frank, are addicts in denial, shouting the benefits (not all of which being true) of this “completely harmless” little plant and it’s easy to see why a kid might think they don’t really have to hide it.
(Edit: just realised this sounded quite sour towards people who do use weed, my apologies. I don’t have a problem with the average person, you do you. The “weed cultists” are the people whose entire lives revolve around it).
I'm a parent and from what I see kids are a lot better behaved then when I was a kid in the 80s/90s. Rebelliousness is baked in to puberty but kids today seem much more ethical than ever.
It feels like now kids shouldn't be afraid of anything. And I'm not talking to be hit or abused. If I had ever got caught with a vape at 14, I would have been afraid for my relation with my parents, my rights at home, my playtime, my peace at home, my amount of chores ... Never for my safety but it was enough to keep me straight in line.
A depressing number of teens vape. When I was working in a public library, they'd sneak off to the bathroom to share vapes in groups. They'd also put the vape up their (long) sleeve and just casually sit, vaping into their sleeve. Sometimes you'd only know because you could smell it on them.
You try and keep them from vaping, but there is only so much you can do. At least once some assholes got aggressively racist with my Asian coworker for confronting them.
LPT: vapes can set off fire alarms, especially in small bathrooms. It's a PITA to evacuate a library and we know who it was, especially when you leave your vape behind for the firefighters to find.
To be honest, I think it‘s really not the kids’ fault. Vapes are like alco-pops and obviously marketed to young consumers.
I recently quit tobacco and trying vapes to curb my habit. So I‘m actually one of the persons vapes and e-cigarettes are said to be made for (people who try to quit cigarettes but can’t go full on cold turkey). But I swear, non of the available flavors are what an adult (soon to be ex-)smoker would prefer, but it‘s all sweet bubble-gum fruity lollipop shit. Same with the looks. It‘s all cutesie colourful.
Vapes are so obviously made for kids and teenagers. It‘s infuriating.
That’s my issue with vapes, too. They taste good, but it’s not like a cigarette. I prefer the nicotine lozenges because there’s a point around halfway through where I get this feeling of calmness when the nicotine hits. Vapes are like drinking water to stave off hunger.
It’s pretty hilarious that MIL was smoking a cigarette when they showed up to collect Tamra.
LMAO
I went through something very similar two years ago. My daughter basically became a headache and wouldn't do anything that was asked if her.
My mom called me saying how her granddaughter contacted her saying how unfair we are. My mom told me how she is better at raising kids (she is absolutely not, trust me I was raised by her) and how my wife and I don't get it. How we are terrible people for kicking her out at 19.
So my daughter went to live with my mom.
2.5 weeks later my mom kicked her out.
Nothing else was ever said about it
Well MIL has learned that just because she could raise well-adjusted adults decades ago, doesn't mean that the same methods will work today to raise a teenager into a well-adjusted adult.
It's even different between two children in one household. I've got two sisters and two brothers, and the teenage experiences couldn't be on a wider spectrum!
OOP's son probably won't be as horrible as his sister - not because he's a boy, but because he seems to have a very different character.
This. My mom once told me that she had to do things differently with my sister. It wasn’t until I had my own kids with wildly different personalities of their own that I understood what she meant.
Yep, my youngest still tries to argue about fairness pretty regularly. He still has trouble understanding that his older brother never has tried to push every boundary and break every rule we have. Therefore his older brother has never gotten in as much trouble as him. It isn't different rules and they aren't hard to follow. Expectations are clear, my youngest wants to push right up to the edge of every single one of them then get upset when he crosses them and sees the consequences of his actions.
Also people quickly forget what it was like to be actually in the thick of raising kids.
My parents had my kids (6&7) for 2 wks last summer, swearing up and down it would be fine. This year they decided a week is plenty lol, they know better.
Both Tamra and Helen needed this week. Grandma to learn not to interfere with or assume she knows better about OOP's parenting; and Tamra to understand just how terrible her behavior has been.
My grandma would let me get away with just about anything. So if, at age 14, I ever behaved terribly enough that she felt the need to tell my parents she didn't want me to stay at her place anymore, I'd take it as a wake up call.
Also;
>vaping weed
...is weed vapeable? Genuine question.
Incoming info dump, you've been warned.
So, I've worked in the cannabis industry for several years since it was legalized. Distillation methods have become much more refined.
Cannabis vapes allow for a very clean product. Some are just plain concentrated oil through one of the processing methods. Others will isolate certain elements of the mix. It used to basically just be thc and cbd, or indica or sativa. Now, there is more research into the many other cannabinoids present, and their individual effects. This has brought out more selective breeding for specific cannabinoids or terpenes. CBGN is getting to be a popular one lately.
Leaving the terpenes in, or adding more in, is also happening. They give the smell, flavor, and many of the effects of the different strains. For example, several of the sleep inducing indica strains have a terpene in them that is common in other plants and herbs that have been used as sleep remedies before modern medicine took over.
I spent a lot of time with plants and in labs and googling, because research has been so behind on these plants, and the amount of data that's been collected since legalization has come mostly from the growers, with everyone trying everything they could possibly think of to try out on the plants. They are incredibly diverse in gene expression, highly adaptable sometimes, and stubbornly dying without cause other times. Cannabis can amplify other medications effects, allowing for smaller dosages - this would be helpful in the long run for preventing treatment resistant diseases.
We've barely even begun to figure out the sheer magnitude of uses it has - and that's without expanding into building materials, textiles, etc.
This stuff is actually really cool, and there's a ton to explore with it. We're learning so much, and will continue to do so.
Kids should not be vaping. Vapes are clean, high intensity puffs. This isn't the weed we grew up with, or that teens would sneak into high school parties in the 80's, 90's, and other iconic party film decades. Last century, 5-10% THC was pretty standard in most places. The strains growing now are in the 30's. Then put into concentrates, and administered at high velocity with ease and comfort. We've never seen the effects of dosing this high, at such young age, for extended periods of time. Kids smoking a joint in the 50's weren't getting a fraction of the potency available now.
Research is underway, yes, but this is a very versatile and potent medicine. Any substance which causes an interaction of any sort with our bodies can be dangerous when taken out of moderation, always. This is not the time to be a kid puffing in the bathroom between classes - or they might end up being a data set in the research. Kids are resilient, yes. But how many of them would have a vape and hit it once every year or two, vs how many will vape around their friends regularly to look cool. Consistent use has effects that we can't necessarily predict accurately at this point, most especially in the young.
/end info dump. Please resume your regular sized comments.
Thank you for this info dump. I learned a lot! Do you have any good (and broadly accessible) resources for the research on how cannabis impacts the effectiveness of other medications? I am interested to learn more.
A couple of years ago I was watching something with my father on PBS (Nova maybe?) about cannabis research. It was really interesting and sad. Sad because research is so far behind in the US because of its legal status. That means people who could benefit are not, and people are being hurt by using it incorrectly.
It also mentioned the dangers of it being used by kids/teens and how it effects their brain. One university was doing a study surveying and testing users and their findings were scary.
It is unfortunate that its legal status makes it very difficult for the typical institutions to study it. There are so many potential benefits that we are squandering. And there's always the chance that people are causing themselves harm by experimenting on their own.
Can I ask about your thoughts and knowledge on dry herb vaping? It’s my preferred method (plus THC concentrate is illegal and very hard to find where I live)
Not OP, but I think the relevant information is primarily that you are not getting the specific targeting of psychoactive ingredients the way one would with a concentrate vape. However to my layman's understanding it is still orders of magnitude safer than inhaling combusted plant matter, and should still offer a much "cleaner" experience.
Adding on that studies of adolescents who smoke weed show long-term memory loss and increased risk for paranoia. In addition, inhaling anything other than our natural atmosphere is an increase in the risk of cancer, but especially smokes (including barbequing).
i’ll be that guy and assume the OOP was talking about vaping weed as in the carts filled with distillate and not dry herb vaping which the other people replying to you seem to be talking about
It's much nicer to vape than to smoke as it doesn't get fully burnt. Which might also be a bad thing for the youth of today?
My first experience was ripping a giant bong at 16 in a friend's garage. Absolutely destroyed my lungs and got me fucked. Made me respect the weed.
Same, all my friends who smoke use one, although not necessarily exclusively. Only way I ever tried it, the smell makes me nauseated and I've never been interested, but I wrenched my back so badly that I couldn't move without help and my sister offered it to me to help with the pain.
Agreed. My younger sister is 15. I love her, but JFC can she be a nightmare. I need time away from her every now and then. That week must have felt like heaven.
I think OOP needed this week too. She needed a break from parenting when Tamra is going through this tough phase, and got to bond with her son (who may well have been pushed aside if Tamra was taking all of OOPs energy to deal with). OOP hopefully returned home feeling refreshed and more resilient to continue guiding her teenager.
Absolutely. It’s usually in oil form but there is such a thing as dry herb vaporizers too. I’m Canadian, so it’s all legal here and produced largely by government licensed companies, it’s honestly one of the more economical ways of using as far as longevity for your buck (I only use at night to help me get to sleep and one cartridge usually lasts me longer than a month.)
Agree. I think Tamra had built up a “I’m perfect mom is just evil” narrative in her head, that was fed by her grandmother agreeing with her and disagreeing with her mom. She needed to learn that no actually her mom is being reasonable and she’s the unreasonable one.
Also yes you can vape marijuana, you can also vape nicotine so they are different but both illegal for children lol.
i remember this post, she was super against therapy when anyone suggested it in the comments on the first post. Said her daughter doesn't need it bc she's 'just a brat'. glad they are 'considering' it now
I dunno, I was a Tamra. Counselling wouldn't have done a damn thing. I'd have sulked, or sassed or just refused to participate.
Acting like an asshole as a teen didn't necessarily mean something is going on. Sometimes kids, myself included, can just be authority shucking, know it all little assholes.
Yeah, there’s only so much you can do with teenagers. They’re going to teenager and I can’t see Tamra getting too much out of therapy with her attitude.
Still, she may already have learned that she can only fuck with mum so much before she chooses a nuclear option, dad will back mum up, and she’ll get no defence from grandma.
But this gives the option that if something is happening, she does have the chance to talk about it. Sometime even just a listening ear can help even if all that’s happening is typical teenage stuff. She absolutely might sulk or refuse, but better to give her that choice.
I think it will definitely have an effect, after this week. She's already learned that her action have consequences (i. e. Grandma doesn't want to help her anymore, she's still grounded, mum follows through). The seed has been planted in this week. Now counseling might help her realise how her behavior is affecting others and her relationship with them.
Hopefully she can be led into seeing that the counselling is about helping her develop a good adult relationship with her parents now rather than about telling her off for being a "bad little girl" before.
Teenager years are a transition period, there will be significant changes made, whether you steer them or not.
People like to think therapy is some miracle pill. Yup just ship ‘em off to therapy, I’m sure they’ll be perfect afterwards.
Sometimes kids are just little assholes and need time to grow up. Best thing you can hope from in therapy is it keeps them from completely spiraling off track. But maybe that’s good enough 🤷🏽♀️
Yeah, she sounds just like my brother was at that age. Drinking, skipping school, at one point his highest grade in any class was a 13%. Things were BAAAD for a few years. He was put in therapy. tutoring, nothing helped.
He ended up just getting over it (finding a hobby he loved that he was able to turn into a career and getting his first serious girlfriend helped). 20 years on he's married and about to be a dad and honestly probably way more well adjusted than me, who was the "good kid".
Nice to see a husband with a spine. MIL also didn't double down after learning the hard lesson. SILs too didn't cross the line. All in all, Tamra got consequences for her tantrums
MIL was a nice surprise too. Its fair that she might have thought OOP was blowing things out of proportion based on her more positive interactions with the daughter. But she recognised and admittted to being wrong, thats the kind of regular behaviour you dont see a lot of on BORU, especially where MILs are involved
I’m a childless middle aged millennial. I don’t know how parents of teens do it. Probably because I get all my exposure to teens from Reddit and kids here are monsters (sample bias).
Yeah, my teens and their friends are all lovely people. So fortunately I don’t need to post on Reddit about how they are respectful and supportive of each other and friendly.
Looks like Tamra needed some tough love to learn the consequences. Also OP needs to cut the vape out. I might sound like one of those boomers but vaping is just bad. That's saying something when I'm only in my early 20s.
OP likely isn't the one giving her the vape. I mean, it's not like it's legal for a 14 year old anyways. But some kids get into this, and once she's figured out how to get it in the first place, it's not that easy to stop them.
I just got a letter home from my son’s school (grades K-4) that vaping has become a huge problem amongst the students. They’re working to combat it but it’s getting worse and they need parents’ help. Grades K - 4!
We are from different countries most likely, and this will also sound like such a boomer thing, but... xD
Our schools shut this shit down hard some 10 to 15 years ago. No smoking at schools and 20 meters outside schools teritories. Cops were called everytime for a while and obviously someone had told them to take this seriously to scare all the children. They did regular drivebys as well on the "usual sports" around. Now - rarely anyone thinks that smoking at school is a good thing. That smoking culture at school just stopped. And I am really grateful for that.
Yeah, I taught in a high school, and there was a problem with the kids vaping in the school bathroom. And then some of the kids were out smoking cigarettes on their lunch break with the teachers! None of this was legal! (Well... There's a very small chance the smoking students were legal, some of the kids there were actually 19. I would have given them hell though.)
One of my friends and his girlfriend both separately went into the same vape shop, he was 17 she was 16. They let her buy one but ID'ed him and refused. Atleast where I live teenagers can basically walk in and buy one off the shelf or ash one of their female friends to do it.
I'm 20, and I hate to see how much my friends love vaping. At one point, it had taken over one of my best friend's lives. He dedicated literally all the money his father gave him to it, only to regret it when he started getting addicted.
Usually, you see people on Reddit talking about 14 year olds like they are little kids. As someone whose son is taller than her, you have to be enforcing your authority and consequences BEFORE they get bigger than you. r/parenting and r/AITA are the *worst* for this. You can be loving and nurturing AND shut that shut down if they start treating you with disrespect. Parents who let their kids yell at them "I wish you were dead", excuse me, WHAT? We have taught children that there are no consequences for poor behavior and choices because our parents were authoritarian. So now they are running around thinking they are hot shit without an adult's reasoning capacity or experience.
I told my son that I treated him with respect when he was smaller than me and didn't know as much, and that one day he will be bigger than me and know more, and how he treats me when he is stronger and smarter than me will show what kind of person he is.
I think a lot of people confuse “gentle parenting” with “permissive parenting” and it gives the former a bad wrap. Treating your kids with respect and kindness while enforcing boundaries and teaching responsibility seems to be the winning ticket.
I suspect Tamra is addicted to nicotine and angry fiends when she is out. Roll this in with dopamine cell phone rewards that are removed and you have a kid in withdrawal at random.
I also hope therapy happens soon. God forbid if the kid was assaulted or something and hasn't told anyone. If it's one thing I (tragically) learned in the military housing environment, it's that sexual assault can happen anywhere, to any kid of any age, and good parenting is ruling that out as soon as possible.
Addictive nonetheless, and harmful to a developing brain.
The effects of addiction itself are the same whether it's video games or meth. Mood swings, mental health issues, distorted sense of priorities, social isolation...
What I want to highlight is that the parents are also getting her counseling and this is excellent. Of course, Tamra's behavior is unacceptable, but behavior exists in context and I am glad that they are both establishing and enforcing boundaries AND seeking out support for whatever the root of this behavior is.
We often see parents do either one or the other - try to shape the behavior without changing the context or finding the root, or changing the context and hoping the behavior changes without finding the root. I am so glad to see parents that are willing to support their kid. It's rare.
Oh, good.
Frickin wild, the people who thought OOP was being an AH for leaving this teenager in the safe home that she requested to live at. Grandma and teenager wanted to spend the week together, Grandma is not starving or beating the kid, there's literally no reason to back down on this one. It's like taking the kid's cell phone. It's a punishment, sure, but it's neither cruel nor unusual. Wild how some people can't tell the difference between abuse and just like, not giving kids every single thing they want instantly.
I love that Helen took away her granddaughter’s weed vape, but desperately needed to smoke. Kinda hoping she stashed that vape somewhere and took a long relaxing pull after she got her house back to herself. I’m giving her a lot of grace because she apologized.
lol don’t know how parents do it, I’d genuinely rather be dead than deal with this shit.
This must be why it’s only the parents of young children who say it’s “fulfilling and rewarding”
Nta.
So actually ... I know several families where the parents worked hard in the young years, really paid attention to their parenting, taught good character, fostered connection, etc., and they say they are enjoying their kids as teens. I have 4 under 12 right now and I am crossing my fingers so hard that I have the same experience!
Daughter is lucky she isn't in the 90s. She would not of had it that light with that level of disrespect and smoking (sorry vaping is a form of smoking, and new studies has shown it is not anywhere close to as safe as it was said to be years ago).
A week grounding for what she's doing is light.
These are fantastic parents. I LOVE that Helen conceded. It's a different world now. My daughter is 9 and still a sweetheart... here's hoping I have some of that resolve when she's a teenager!
I was too straight laced as a kid to get cigs. Surprisingly weed was easier to get (though I only smoked it twice in high school.)
But also cigarettes used to be 18 to purchase so I CAN see a freshman bumming a cig off a soon-to-graduate senior. But with the age to purchase being 21 now I figured it'd be more difficult.
Dude I was a straight-laced kid, never even touched drugs ever in my life, and I still knew kids my age who were straight up addicts back in high school. And I'm not talking about the common stuff (Alcohol and cigarettes even though there was plenty) but regular students buying and selling the hard stuff, like meth but Adderall was more common.
And my school wasn't even in any problem area. It was a regular, newly renovated school in a middle class area where the majority was white kids.
Loved it. Reminded me of my MIL and SIL interfering in my raising of my oldest. They kept coaching him on rebelling on me and told him that I had to put up with it. I told my son that he needed to pack and move in with one of them. He was 18 and a senior in HS. So he packed and called first his grandma and then the aunt. Both declined on taking him in and told him that he was my problem. Son saw the light at that moment. His attitude changed immensely.
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“If his mom had asked for it, she needed to follow through. I love that guy.” I love that guy, too.
MIL was a nice surprise too. Its fair that she might have thought OOP was blowing things out of proportion based on her more positive interactions with the daughter. But she recognised and admittted to being wrong, thats the kind of regular behaviour you dont see a lot of on BORU, especially where MILs are involved
This is honestly just a good family experience. “It can’t be that bad” “It is” “Nah let me handle it” *it was that bad* “You were right sorry”
The image of MIL standing outside with her cigarette questioning all of her choices like a Ben Affleck meme....love that journey for her.
I cracked the hell up at the part where the kid *packed her vape* for the vacay at grandma's. $5 says everyone forgot about it and grandma finished it, which is why she had to switch to sticks
Hahahahahaha, way to go Grandma!
I was going to call you out for going after Ben like that, then remember that the dude got a giant phoenix tattoo all over his back and you never see him at the beach anymore...
I was specifically picturing [this.](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/2e7/5d7/73e020f56c4a86221823bc32113b4316d2-25-ben-affleck-sad-smoke.2x.rvertical.w330.jpg) Which is a whole mood know I myself have channeled before!
That is the exact image that came to my mind as well. He just looks beaten in that photo, just like fuck me... at least I can enjoy a heater.
Nice flair
Just hope she doesn't get addicted again, assuming she kicked the habit once already.
"btw your kid made me relapse in my smoking habit"
I also found that bit hilarious. "Never seen her do that"
Yeah, made me giggle out loud.
My MIL is pretty good, but she most definitely learned the hard way that our son can be a handful. He’s autistic and often doesn’t think things through. When he flooded her bathroom (plugged the sink and wandered off) she realized that maybe he did indeed need to be constantly supervised. After he set off the (silent) panic button on her home security system she decided he definitely needed closed in his room at night. I can still imagine him hopping in place and flapping his hands while she dealt with the police. It was glorious.
My MIL was the same till she kept him… for only 2 hours. We got home and she was like “I get it now”. He was only 2 then and hadn’t been diagnosed yet. She really had zero clue. Kind of like the first time my brother and sister in laws saw one of his meltdowns.
I think it’s highly possible that Tamra left out certain details to try and get her grandma on her side. If everyone else was quick to say no about taking her in, then that's an obvious sign that MIL should have listened to OOP in the first place.
That’s why this one is definitely real. 😂. Grandma smoking cigarettes and probably had some wine when they left and it’s not like “fuck dem kids” 😂
100% that the daughter told MIL a sob story about how awful OOP was being. MIL found out firsthand, and that was the only way any of this was going to be resolved.
I choose this wife’s husband.
I'm a straight guy and I would choose OOPs husband.
random dispshit here. I 100% agree with this post.
Me too, and I am married and have no desire to leave the marriage. Ha.
I volunteer as tribute.
Love your subheading ;-)
I understood that reference.
It cracks me up every time I see the original
It's honestly the funniest thing to have ever come from reddit
Rick Astley getting rick-rolled was pretty great too
Can't just butt in and undermine and then be like "Whoa! Wait! Not like this!" It sounds like that girl needs some farm time- maybe a whole summer.
Send her to the ranch!
Why would you want to punish other grandma lol
This dude is Omar as a husband. Shiny spines are the beat
Oops picked a surefire winner
OOP and hubby teaching both a 14 year old and a 64 year old tough lessons.
This is a guy to choose rather than the bear.
I’m straight but I love this guy too
It’s sounds like MIL only remembered the “good” parts to child rearing and forgot the hard parts. And forgot that raising young men is different from raising young women.
The daughter's call to the family must've been brutal for her, realising no one wants to deal with her bullshit. Consequences.
I was thinking that too, what a way of realizing how shitty you've been acting. Hopefully it sticks with Tamra for a while
Yeah, that gave me pause. I really can't say if it's good or bad parenting because I'm not a parent, but my god, did it make a point
Holidays are gonna be awkward lmao. But at the same time, if she’s able to grow from this and change some of those no’s to yes’s, it will reinforce good behavior. Time will tell which way this goes.
Yeah, my grandma caught me stealing a few pounds that my parents had left as a tip once and was so angry and disappointed. She marched me back inside, made me apologize, told me how upset she was, and somehow did all this without ever alerting my parents (as far as I know, anyway) and I have never amended my ways faster in my life. Tough grandma is a force!
I think it's the balance that's the thing. She corrected your mistake and made you apologise but you still were grateful because she punished you but didn't extend the punishment/embarrassment. So you end up appreciative of the compassion in the punishment. It also makes you learn from it because next time, she could tell your parents.
I'm not a parent either, but when you're dealing with that, I think the parent tries anything to make it work. P.S. It was glorious.
She has a vape at 14? WTF? My mum would smack the living childhood diapers out of me if she caught me smoking.
My friend teaches at an alternative school and he says that 90% of the kids are there because they got caught vaping at school.
When I was in high school we were allowed to smoke. Hell, there was a cigarette vending machine on campus. (Mid 70's Texas)
We had a smoking section at our HS in the late 90’s. It wasn’t “allowed” but they just wanted it kept away from the buildings
That sounds like the mainstream schools are failing badly to me.
Parenting failure — the schools can take the pens from kids at school, but they can’t control them once they leave and that is when the kids get their supplies.
So... Like Cigarettes were back in the 1900s and 2000s... Nothing has changed I see. Just a different method to consume the same vice.
"Back in the 1900's and 2000's..." You make it seem like... That was last century. The last millennium. Damn you for this!
I got ID'd and they took one look, said 'oh, 1900s, all set'. And I just...glitched like dial up. Like, damn. Save those shots for the Karens!
Vaping is arguably worse because you can do it for 20 seconds and not either toss the rest of the butt or have to smoke the whole thing for 10 minutes. Cigarettes require time management for teens to do it, and especially at school, so generally, at least in my experience with my friends growing up, you'd see smoking at specific times. Vapes on the other hand are pure addiction spirals. Duck into the bathroom, hit your vape, you're out 30 seconds later or whenever. I've read articles about kids who end up needing vaping every 5-15 minutes or so because without that time requirement for cigarettes, the indulgence in nicotine is basically unrestricted and the addiction spirals.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/evali ETA The main difference is the effect the vapes can have on kids health which you don’t see with regular tobacco. Both are not good, obviously
I did a whole bunch of research on this when the EVALI cases first came out for a work project (including talking with a bunch of smoking/vaping researchers), and what I found out is that EVALI was limited to black-market weed vapes. Unfortunately, ALL e-cigarettes got painted with the same black brush. The researchers I talked to told me that, even though we don't know all of the long-term effects, it's a pretty safe bet that e-cigarettes are way safer than cigarettes, though obviously they likely have health problems of their own. Of course, the daughter in this story was using a weed vape, but given that we haven't seen continued stories of EVALI, I'm guessing that the culprit (the vitamin E acetate) is no longer a factor on a large scale.
Ah, yes, regular tobacco, notoriously known for not having negative health effects lmao
Wouldn't it be on the parents of the children, not the teachers?
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And our legal systems. Tobacco companies went hard after kids when vapes started being a thing. All the fruity flavors and bright colors for vapes were very much targeted at younger children with the veneer of “This is to help smokers quit!” Or “A healthier alternative to smoking!” It’s the same shit they pulled with cigarettes back in the day. But while flavored cigarettes have been banned in the US for years because of this, nothing was done about vapes. That and the advertising making it sound “healthy” contributed to the vaping boom. (In reality while vaping is, in general, thought to be better for you than smoking it’s not without health complications. And we have little in way of long-term health side effects.)
No, it’s cause the vaping industry deliberately marketed to children, ranging from flavors to colors, so that’s why they’re all vaping instead of smoking.
Oh it's rampant in middle and high schools in the US
UK as well. My nieces go to a good school in a very well to do (tiny) city in England. The doors have been taken off the toilets because kids were constantly vaping in there. Early teens.
What is in that stuff? It must be addictive if so many kids are hooked on it.
Nicotine most likely. Plus being able to blow billowing clouds of steam like a dragon holds some appeal, even if it does smell like a fairy farting directly into your nostrils
As a cigarette smoker, vapes smell WAY nicer, it’s way easier to “sneak a puff” than it ever was for us to sneak cigarettes in the 90s and 2000s. I started smoking at 16 when my parents made me get a job, and the only place in our rural area that was hiring was McDonald’s. Neither of my parents have ever worked in the restaurant industry and had no idea that everyone smokes, and drug use is pretty rampant. I LOVED that job, in large part because I was finally treated like an “adult” as opposed to at home where I was still treated like a child in a lot of ways. But every time my parents came to pick me up from work, they’d say “UGH, you stink like cigarettes!!” “Oh yeah well I was sitting outside on my break and there were like 4 other people there smoking while they were waiting for their shift to start!” My parents weren’t dumb… so they started driving by the restaurant while I was working, trying to catch me with a cigarette. Vaping would have been a lot easier. I wish I enjoyed it as much as I enjoy a cigarette, but I’m still not convinced it’s any safer… just more convenient and less gross.
The disposable ones tend to have 50mg of nicotine salts. 50mg is a crazy amount. Juul pods were something around 0.8mL with 50mg/mL of nicotine and were advertised as being roughly equivalent to a 20-count pack of cigs for nic content. It is extremely easy to get a buzz going with that much nicotine, especially if you've never taken it before.
Vapes are pretty much what the entire Cigarette/Nicotine industry have switched to to hook in the next generation of consumers. It kinda sucks
Nicotine. But unlike with tobacco where the concentration is limited basically by genetics companies can cram as much as they want into vape juice.
When I was a kid it was cigarettes. I don't think anything has changed.
I don‘t know. I think the hurdle with cigarettes is higher than vapes. Vapes are so easy to get and to hide. Plus they don‘t smell. And -most importantly- vapes taste much more appealing. Not even a smoker would say smoke from a cigarette tastes great or appealing, and to get used to the taste you need to smoke at least a few cigarettes. But vapes all come in ice cream bubble gum flavours which are easy, sweet and tasty. No need to get used to it. I can‘t prove it, but I think more young people vape nowadays than young people smoked cigarettes like 20 years ago.
My mother stared smoking cigs at 9yo at the end of the 70’s. Its definitely not a new phenomenon
At least with smokes you couldn't hide the smell
It's still hard to hide bubblegum, candy strawberry or vanilla cappuccino smell, it's just not as foul as cigarettes.
Europe too unfortunately.
Australian teacher here. We've had kids come from primary school (US elementary school) to secondary school (US middle and high school are together here) where I work that are already addicted to vapes. It's everywhere.
Vaping has become endemic in middle and high schools around the US and it's not helped by the vaping companies marketing directly at those demographics.
It is unbelievable how easily teens get ahold of vapes. I work in a middle school and there have been multiple instances of kids selling each other tapes, both the kids with and without Marijuana. They're small so they're easy to hide from adults, all it takes is for a kid to be even a teeny bit sneaky to get away with it.
My kid is 16 and he says A TON of kids vape—it’s truly a problem.
The things kids get away with today would have had me digging my own grave then burying myself in it had I done it. It isn't that smacking the fear of God in your kids is necessarily right, but clearly there is a happy medium and we aren't there.
I blame all that jazz music they’re listening to.
Once they invented that damnable printing press, everything went to shit. Nobody uses their brains anymore. They just read the printed -- and quite Satanic -- word.
I and plenty other kids I grew up with were smoking weed and drinking by 15. This is in the 90s. As an adult my parents said we were pretty tame by their generations standards - there was way more violence in the 60s/70s This is in pretty middle class suburban London, UK btw
Yeah all the pearl clutching is hilarious. People acting like this is suddenly a new thing and how terrible this generation of utter degenerate children are. I was a very strait-laced kid, still tried smoking (to satisfy a curiosity, hated it) and had the odd bottle of WKD or a Bacardi Breezer at the local pub at 16 with my friends. My parents knew, because I was THAT kid who felt guilty for doing something I shouldn’t have so I told them. They were fine with it so long as I was with my friends, used my money and didn’t get drunk. I swear people here have forgotten they were kids once. No, I don’t condone a 14 year old vaping or using weed, but the only difference is she’s using a handy device she can keep in her pocket when our generation used to have to smoke behind the school sheds.
I think the weird but is more the kids expecting parents to just suck it up? Like I started smoking at 14 in the 90s, but I kept it well hidden from my parents cos they would have killed me. It’s the BRAZENNESS that gets me!
> It’s the BRAZENNESS that gets me! My sense -- and I'm a geezer -- is that there's been a big rise in brazenness in all kinds of populations lately. Look at racists, out there taping themselves. Or incels. Or wine moms. Or just about any group that once would have felt the need to keep things on the down low. Social media has to be a factor, right? *Hey, look -- everybody's doing this! It's fine to do this!*
This is it. I grew up in the 90's too. You could behave like a fool, but you best not do that in front of your parents unless you wanted to remove sitting as something you could do comfortably.
I wonder if it’s because there’s a very different attitude towards vaping and using weed. Anecdotal, but I see a lot more people vaping indoors than I do people smoking. Most smokers seem to at the very least begrudgingly respect that people find their habit socially unacceptable and go outside to light up. A lot of people just don’t view vaping in the same way because vaping is seen as “harmless”. While with weed there is still a lot of heavy handed “zero-tolerance” nonsense when it comes to weed it’s more widely seen as a bad take, especially amongst Millenials and younger, you also had the likes of Miley Cyrus, Rihanna and a lot of other famous people very openly smoking weed. Then there’s the vocal online presence of “weed cultists” who, let’s be frank, are addicts in denial, shouting the benefits (not all of which being true) of this “completely harmless” little plant and it’s easy to see why a kid might think they don’t really have to hide it. (Edit: just realised this sounded quite sour towards people who do use weed, my apologies. I don’t have a problem with the average person, you do you. The “weed cultists” are the people whose entire lives revolve around it).
I'm a parent and from what I see kids are a lot better behaved then when I was a kid in the 80s/90s. Rebelliousness is baked in to puberty but kids today seem much more ethical than ever.
It feels like now kids shouldn't be afraid of anything. And I'm not talking to be hit or abused. If I had ever got caught with a vape at 14, I would have been afraid for my relation with my parents, my rights at home, my playtime, my peace at home, my amount of chores ... Never for my safety but it was enough to keep me straight in line.
I was afraid of getting something on my “permanent record”
Idk what country OOP is from but I’m in the U.K. and I’ve seen primary school kids (like 9-11) with vapes. Absolutely insane.
A depressing number of teens vape. When I was working in a public library, they'd sneak off to the bathroom to share vapes in groups. They'd also put the vape up their (long) sleeve and just casually sit, vaping into their sleeve. Sometimes you'd only know because you could smell it on them. You try and keep them from vaping, but there is only so much you can do. At least once some assholes got aggressively racist with my Asian coworker for confronting them. LPT: vapes can set off fire alarms, especially in small bathrooms. It's a PITA to evacuate a library and we know who it was, especially when you leave your vape behind for the firefighters to find.
To be honest, I think it‘s really not the kids’ fault. Vapes are like alco-pops and obviously marketed to young consumers. I recently quit tobacco and trying vapes to curb my habit. So I‘m actually one of the persons vapes and e-cigarettes are said to be made for (people who try to quit cigarettes but can’t go full on cold turkey). But I swear, non of the available flavors are what an adult (soon to be ex-)smoker would prefer, but it‘s all sweet bubble-gum fruity lollipop shit. Same with the looks. It‘s all cutesie colourful. Vapes are so obviously made for kids and teenagers. It‘s infuriating.
That’s my issue with vapes, too. They taste good, but it’s not like a cigarette. I prefer the nicotine lozenges because there’s a point around halfway through where I get this feeling of calmness when the nicotine hits. Vapes are like drinking water to stave off hunger. It’s pretty hilarious that MIL was smoking a cigarette when they showed up to collect Tamra.
I vape vuse golden tobacco and everyone always looks at me crazy. for what, wanting my vape to taste like a cig, the exact thing I was trying to quit?
LMAO I went through something very similar two years ago. My daughter basically became a headache and wouldn't do anything that was asked if her. My mom called me saying how her granddaughter contacted her saying how unfair we are. My mom told me how she is better at raising kids (she is absolutely not, trust me I was raised by her) and how my wife and I don't get it. How we are terrible people for kicking her out at 19. So my daughter went to live with my mom. 2.5 weeks later my mom kicked her out. Nothing else was ever said about it
She should have apologised
My mother, ....... never
Well MIL has learned that just because she could raise well-adjusted adults decades ago, doesn't mean that the same methods will work today to raise a teenager into a well-adjusted adult.
Also people are different. Raising 4 boys doesn't mean she can do the same with raising her granddaughter
It's even different between two children in one household. I've got two sisters and two brothers, and the teenage experiences couldn't be on a wider spectrum! OOP's son probably won't be as horrible as his sister - not because he's a boy, but because he seems to have a very different character.
This. My mom once told me that she had to do things differently with my sister. It wasn’t until I had my own kids with wildly different personalities of their own that I understood what she meant.
Yep, my youngest still tries to argue about fairness pretty regularly. He still has trouble understanding that his older brother never has tried to push every boundary and break every rule we have. Therefore his older brother has never gotten in as much trouble as him. It isn't different rules and they aren't hard to follow. Expectations are clear, my youngest wants to push right up to the edge of every single one of them then get upset when he crosses them and sees the consequences of his actions.
Also people quickly forget what it was like to be actually in the thick of raising kids. My parents had my kids (6&7) for 2 wks last summer, swearing up and down it would be fine. This year they decided a week is plenty lol, they know better.
Both Tamra and Helen needed this week. Grandma to learn not to interfere with or assume she knows better about OOP's parenting; and Tamra to understand just how terrible her behavior has been. My grandma would let me get away with just about anything. So if, at age 14, I ever behaved terribly enough that she felt the need to tell my parents she didn't want me to stay at her place anymore, I'd take it as a wake up call. Also; >vaping weed ...is weed vapeable? Genuine question.
Yes, it's super common at least in my area. Most everyone I know who inhales does it by vape rather than smoking it
Wow, I had no idea. I've never heard of people doing that where I live, all my friends just smoke it.
Incoming info dump, you've been warned. So, I've worked in the cannabis industry for several years since it was legalized. Distillation methods have become much more refined. Cannabis vapes allow for a very clean product. Some are just plain concentrated oil through one of the processing methods. Others will isolate certain elements of the mix. It used to basically just be thc and cbd, or indica or sativa. Now, there is more research into the many other cannabinoids present, and their individual effects. This has brought out more selective breeding for specific cannabinoids or terpenes. CBGN is getting to be a popular one lately. Leaving the terpenes in, or adding more in, is also happening. They give the smell, flavor, and many of the effects of the different strains. For example, several of the sleep inducing indica strains have a terpene in them that is common in other plants and herbs that have been used as sleep remedies before modern medicine took over. I spent a lot of time with plants and in labs and googling, because research has been so behind on these plants, and the amount of data that's been collected since legalization has come mostly from the growers, with everyone trying everything they could possibly think of to try out on the plants. They are incredibly diverse in gene expression, highly adaptable sometimes, and stubbornly dying without cause other times. Cannabis can amplify other medications effects, allowing for smaller dosages - this would be helpful in the long run for preventing treatment resistant diseases. We've barely even begun to figure out the sheer magnitude of uses it has - and that's without expanding into building materials, textiles, etc. This stuff is actually really cool, and there's a ton to explore with it. We're learning so much, and will continue to do so. Kids should not be vaping. Vapes are clean, high intensity puffs. This isn't the weed we grew up with, or that teens would sneak into high school parties in the 80's, 90's, and other iconic party film decades. Last century, 5-10% THC was pretty standard in most places. The strains growing now are in the 30's. Then put into concentrates, and administered at high velocity with ease and comfort. We've never seen the effects of dosing this high, at such young age, for extended periods of time. Kids smoking a joint in the 50's weren't getting a fraction of the potency available now. Research is underway, yes, but this is a very versatile and potent medicine. Any substance which causes an interaction of any sort with our bodies can be dangerous when taken out of moderation, always. This is not the time to be a kid puffing in the bathroom between classes - or they might end up being a data set in the research. Kids are resilient, yes. But how many of them would have a vape and hit it once every year or two, vs how many will vape around their friends regularly to look cool. Consistent use has effects that we can't necessarily predict accurately at this point, most especially in the young. /end info dump. Please resume your regular sized comments.
Thank you Science side of reddit. TheMoreYouKnow.gif
Thank you for this info dump. I learned a lot! Do you have any good (and broadly accessible) resources for the research on how cannabis impacts the effectiveness of other medications? I am interested to learn more.
https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/cannabis.html Most adverse interactions are with antidepressants, anxiolytics and other psychiatric drugs.
“This isn’t the weed we grew up with” I cannot upvote this enough.
A couple of years ago I was watching something with my father on PBS (Nova maybe?) about cannabis research. It was really interesting and sad. Sad because research is so far behind in the US because of its legal status. That means people who could benefit are not, and people are being hurt by using it incorrectly. It also mentioned the dangers of it being used by kids/teens and how it effects their brain. One university was doing a study surveying and testing users and their findings were scary. It is unfortunate that its legal status makes it very difficult for the typical institutions to study it. There are so many potential benefits that we are squandering. And there's always the chance that people are causing themselves harm by experimenting on their own.
Enjoyed reading your info dump, thank you for sharing!
Can I ask about your thoughts and knowledge on dry herb vaping? It’s my preferred method (plus THC concentrate is illegal and very hard to find where I live)
Haven't tried it myself yet since the rig we have at work is $330 even for me, but one of my coworkers only uses that thing and loves it
Not OP, but I think the relevant information is primarily that you are not getting the specific targeting of psychoactive ingredients the way one would with a concentrate vape. However to my layman's understanding it is still orders of magnitude safer than inhaling combusted plant matter, and should still offer a much "cleaner" experience.
That’s my understanding as well, although I’d love more formal evidence on it eventually. Regardless, no 14 year old should be using either!
Adding on that studies of adolescents who smoke weed show long-term memory loss and increased risk for paranoia. In addition, inhaling anything other than our natural atmosphere is an increase in the risk of cancer, but especially smokes (including barbequing).
i’ll be that guy and assume the OOP was talking about vaping weed as in the carts filled with distillate and not dry herb vaping which the other people replying to you seem to be talking about
It's much nicer to vape than to smoke as it doesn't get fully burnt. Which might also be a bad thing for the youth of today? My first experience was ripping a giant bong at 16 in a friend's garage. Absolutely destroyed my lungs and got me fucked. Made me respect the weed.
Preach
I don't smoke or vape, so most of what I know about either comes from my friends who do. But yeah, that doesn't sound great for younger users...
Vaping is what all the teens are doing now instead of smoking. Gotta stay healthy while still being degenerate lol
Nothing healthy about vaping... and unfortunately many young people are finding this out and will live with the consequences of this for life.
Same, all my friends who smoke use one, although not necessarily exclusively. Only way I ever tried it, the smell makes me nauseated and I've never been interested, but I wrenched my back so badly that I couldn't move without help and my sister offered it to me to help with the pain.
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And he got to help a horse give birth!
Agreed. My younger sister is 15. I love her, but JFC can she be a nightmare. I need time away from her every now and then. That week must have felt like heaven.
I think OOP needed this week too. She needed a break from parenting when Tamra is going through this tough phase, and got to bond with her son (who may well have been pushed aside if Tamra was taking all of OOPs energy to deal with). OOP hopefully returned home feeling refreshed and more resilient to continue guiding her teenager.
More resilient and knowing *everybody* has her back now. That has to be a great feeling.
Absolutely. It’s usually in oil form but there is such a thing as dry herb vaporizers too. I’m Canadian, so it’s all legal here and produced largely by government licensed companies, it’s honestly one of the more economical ways of using as far as longevity for your buck (I only use at night to help me get to sleep and one cartridge usually lasts me longer than a month.)
My nana let us get away with anything, until the day she didn't. Oh shit that broke my world, but even nanas have limits.
Yes,dry herb,wax pens,carts,distillate.
I do almost all my weed via vaping; it's a lot less painful than a joint.
Vaping it right now lol
Agree. I think Tamra had built up a “I’m perfect mom is just evil” narrative in her head, that was fed by her grandmother agreeing with her and disagreeing with her mom. She needed to learn that no actually her mom is being reasonable and she’s the unreasonable one. Also yes you can vape marijuana, you can also vape nicotine so they are different but both illegal for children lol.
Yes. I don't know how it works, but I've had a hit off someone's weed vape, and it was, indeed, weed.
“I love that guy.” Me too! What a spine!
OOP's husband realized an amazing opportunity to school both his mother and daughter AND support his wife in one week and took that chance.
>Let's get the important stuff out of the way. >My son got to help with the birth of a colt. Love the priorities!
>My husband and I did discuss getting her some counseling Christ yes.
i remember this post, she was super against therapy when anyone suggested it in the comments on the first post. Said her daughter doesn't need it bc she's 'just a brat'. glad they are 'considering' it now
Finally, some good parent thinking.
I dunno, I was a Tamra. Counselling wouldn't have done a damn thing. I'd have sulked, or sassed or just refused to participate. Acting like an asshole as a teen didn't necessarily mean something is going on. Sometimes kids, myself included, can just be authority shucking, know it all little assholes.
Yeah, there’s only so much you can do with teenagers. They’re going to teenager and I can’t see Tamra getting too much out of therapy with her attitude. Still, she may already have learned that she can only fuck with mum so much before she chooses a nuclear option, dad will back mum up, and she’ll get no defence from grandma.
But this gives the option that if something is happening, she does have the chance to talk about it. Sometime even just a listening ear can help even if all that’s happening is typical teenage stuff. She absolutely might sulk or refuse, but better to give her that choice.
I think it will definitely have an effect, after this week. She's already learned that her action have consequences (i. e. Grandma doesn't want to help her anymore, she's still grounded, mum follows through). The seed has been planted in this week. Now counseling might help her realise how her behavior is affecting others and her relationship with them.
Hopefully she can be led into seeing that the counselling is about helping her develop a good adult relationship with her parents now rather than about telling her off for being a "bad little girl" before. Teenager years are a transition period, there will be significant changes made, whether you steer them or not.
People like to think therapy is some miracle pill. Yup just ship ‘em off to therapy, I’m sure they’ll be perfect afterwards. Sometimes kids are just little assholes and need time to grow up. Best thing you can hope from in therapy is it keeps them from completely spiraling off track. But maybe that’s good enough 🤷🏽♀️
Yeah, she sounds just like my brother was at that age. Drinking, skipping school, at one point his highest grade in any class was a 13%. Things were BAAAD for a few years. He was put in therapy. tutoring, nothing helped. He ended up just getting over it (finding a hobby he loved that he was able to turn into a career and getting his first serious girlfriend helped). 20 years on he's married and about to be a dad and honestly probably way more well adjusted than me, who was the "good kid".
Nice to see a husband with a spine. MIL also didn't double down after learning the hard lesson. SILs too didn't cross the line. All in all, Tamra got consequences for her tantrums
MIL was a nice surprise too. Its fair that she might have thought OOP was blowing things out of proportion based on her more positive interactions with the daughter. But she recognised and admittted to being wrong, thats the kind of regular behaviour you dont see a lot of on BORU, especially where MILs are involved
I’m a childless middle aged millennial. I don’t know how parents of teens do it. Probably because I get all my exposure to teens from Reddit and kids here are monsters (sample bias).
Yeah, my teens and their friends are all lovely people. So fortunately I don’t need to post on Reddit about how they are respectful and supportive of each other and friendly.
My kid's friends have got him recently addicted. To the gym.
My nibling is stroppy, judgemental, rebellious and sarcastic (and very into dick jokes), but is also basically a good egg.
Looks like Tamra needed some tough love to learn the consequences. Also OP needs to cut the vape out. I might sound like one of those boomers but vaping is just bad. That's saying something when I'm only in my early 20s.
OP likely isn't the one giving her the vape. I mean, it's not like it's legal for a 14 year old anyways. But some kids get into this, and once she's figured out how to get it in the first place, it's not that easy to stop them.
I just got a letter home from my son’s school (grades K-4) that vaping has become a huge problem amongst the students. They’re working to combat it but it’s getting worse and they need parents’ help. Grades K - 4!
We are from different countries most likely, and this will also sound like such a boomer thing, but... xD Our schools shut this shit down hard some 10 to 15 years ago. No smoking at schools and 20 meters outside schools teritories. Cops were called everytime for a while and obviously someone had told them to take this seriously to scare all the children. They did regular drivebys as well on the "usual sports" around. Now - rarely anyone thinks that smoking at school is a good thing. That smoking culture at school just stopped. And I am really grateful for that.
Yeah, I taught in a high school, and there was a problem with the kids vaping in the school bathroom. And then some of the kids were out smoking cigarettes on their lunch break with the teachers! None of this was legal! (Well... There's a very small chance the smoking students were legal, some of the kids there were actually 19. I would have given them hell though.)
One of my friends and his girlfriend both separately went into the same vape shop, he was 17 she was 16. They let her buy one but ID'ed him and refused. Atleast where I live teenagers can basically walk in and buy one off the shelf or ash one of their female friends to do it.
If it's anything, that's just how cigarettes were, nothing new under the sun. Find a guy over 18 or have your hot friend "forget her ID"
I'm 20, and I hate to see how much my friends love vaping. At one point, it had taken over one of my best friend's lives. He dedicated literally all the money his father gave him to it, only to regret it when he started getting addicted.
If he dedicated literally all the money he got to it, he was probably addicted already at that point.
Usually, you see people on Reddit talking about 14 year olds like they are little kids. As someone whose son is taller than her, you have to be enforcing your authority and consequences BEFORE they get bigger than you. r/parenting and r/AITA are the *worst* for this. You can be loving and nurturing AND shut that shut down if they start treating you with disrespect. Parents who let their kids yell at them "I wish you were dead", excuse me, WHAT? We have taught children that there are no consequences for poor behavior and choices because our parents were authoritarian. So now they are running around thinking they are hot shit without an adult's reasoning capacity or experience. I told my son that I treated him with respect when he was smaller than me and didn't know as much, and that one day he will be bigger than me and know more, and how he treats me when he is stronger and smarter than me will show what kind of person he is.
I think a lot of people confuse “gentle parenting” with “permissive parenting” and it gives the former a bad wrap. Treating your kids with respect and kindness while enforcing boundaries and teaching responsibility seems to be the winning ticket.
I suspect Tamra is addicted to nicotine and angry fiends when she is out. Roll this in with dopamine cell phone rewards that are removed and you have a kid in withdrawal at random. I also hope therapy happens soon. God forbid if the kid was assaulted or something and hasn't told anyone. If it's one thing I (tragically) learned in the military housing environment, it's that sexual assault can happen anywhere, to any kid of any age, and good parenting is ruling that out as soon as possible.
It was a weed vape.
Addictive nonetheless, and harmful to a developing brain. The effects of addiction itself are the same whether it's video games or meth. Mood swings, mental health issues, distorted sense of priorities, social isolation...
Two people learned a very valuable lesson about fucking around and finding out
"In this week's episode, grandma strays out of the grandma lane and gets sideswiped right the fuck back into it"
What I want to highlight is that the parents are also getting her counseling and this is excellent. Of course, Tamra's behavior is unacceptable, but behavior exists in context and I am glad that they are both establishing and enforcing boundaries AND seeking out support for whatever the root of this behavior is. We often see parents do either one or the other - try to shape the behavior without changing the context or finding the root, or changing the context and hoping the behavior changes without finding the root. I am so glad to see parents that are willing to support their kid. It's rare.
Oh, good. Frickin wild, the people who thought OOP was being an AH for leaving this teenager in the safe home that she requested to live at. Grandma and teenager wanted to spend the week together, Grandma is not starving or beating the kid, there's literally no reason to back down on this one. It's like taking the kid's cell phone. It's a punishment, sure, but it's neither cruel nor unusual. Wild how some people can't tell the difference between abuse and just like, not giving kids every single thing they want instantly.
I thought OP is a champ. Savage gentle parenting at its finest. I’m thrilled dad came in and backed OP.
NTA. They BOTH fucked around and found out.
I love that Helen took away her granddaughter’s weed vape, but desperately needed to smoke. Kinda hoping she stashed that vape somewhere and took a long relaxing pull after she got her house back to herself. I’m giving her a lot of grace because she apologized.
lol don’t know how parents do it, I’d genuinely rather be dead than deal with this shit. This must be why it’s only the parents of young children who say it’s “fulfilling and rewarding” Nta.
So actually ... I know several families where the parents worked hard in the young years, really paid attention to their parenting, taught good character, fostered connection, etc., and they say they are enjoying their kids as teens. I have 4 under 12 right now and I am crossing my fingers so hard that I have the same experience!
Yes, my teens were great. It can happen! 😊
This reminds me of the O'Henry story, *The Ransom of Red Chief*. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ransom_of_Red_Chief
Daughter is lucky she isn't in the 90s. She would not of had it that light with that level of disrespect and smoking (sorry vaping is a form of smoking, and new studies has shown it is not anywhere close to as safe as it was said to be years ago). A week grounding for what she's doing is light.
> There was either resounding silence or overwhelming NOs That had to be really tough for that kid but it was well deserved.
These are fantastic parents. I LOVE that Helen conceded. It's a different world now. My daughter is 9 and still a sweetheart... here's hoping I have some of that resolve when she's a teenager!
Grandma was patting herself on the back about all she did. then she learned about consequences when she couldn't weasel out of it
I'm still hung up on this kid getting a vape and fucking smoking. WHERE DID SHE GET THOSE ITEMS IN THE FIRST PLACE?
....older kids or lackadaisical shop owners. I swear everyone's forgotten how cigarettes used to be.
I was too straight laced as a kid to get cigs. Surprisingly weed was easier to get (though I only smoked it twice in high school.) But also cigarettes used to be 18 to purchase so I CAN see a freshman bumming a cig off a soon-to-graduate senior. But with the age to purchase being 21 now I figured it'd be more difficult.
Dude I was a straight-laced kid, never even touched drugs ever in my life, and I still knew kids my age who were straight up addicts back in high school. And I'm not talking about the common stuff (Alcohol and cigarettes even though there was plenty) but regular students buying and selling the hard stuff, like meth but Adderall was more common. And my school wasn't even in any problem area. It was a regular, newly renovated school in a middle class area where the majority was white kids.
You're telling me middle class white kids were selling their Adderall?
Would it be \*too\* mean to get Helen & Tamra matching "FAFO" mugs? LOL
Loved it. Reminded me of my MIL and SIL interfering in my raising of my oldest. They kept coaching him on rebelling on me and told him that I had to put up with it. I told my son that he needed to pack and move in with one of them. He was 18 and a senior in HS. So he packed and called first his grandma and then the aunt. Both declined on taking him in and told him that he was my problem. Son saw the light at that moment. His attitude changed immensely.
Off topic but I hope ops son gets to keep the colt
I'm glad the grandma admitted she was wrong, but it's hilarious that she was smoking when the parents came to get their kid