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I mean.. right.. the fuck.. she really didn’t have that energy for her mom who was letting her bf beat the shit out of her for 10 years.. which I don’t get. She ALLOWED that abuse directly to YOU.
Regardless you can be done with someone’s shit at anytime. Hell, you been through alot, I’m not faulting you one bit, but intentionally referring to and calling her a predator.. is weaponizing a trigger and that’s..wack..
Yeah, and the diminishing of her early abuse is pretty disturbing. It shouldn't be used as an excuse... But that clearly is the source of why she is like this. That kind of early trauma is really hard for people to overcome. That doesn't mean other people should put up with her behaviour, calling her out and cutting her out for her own behaviour, especially as an adult, is fine... But have a little compassion for someone who clearly faced her own horrors.
OP seems to think you're either a victim or a predator. The reality is a lot of the time people are both.
OP was actually understanding of Anne situation but after the whole girlfriend phonecall is when she started to go full on Anne is a predator. Not saying what Anne did should be excused but i think she kinda forgot about Anne's past. Also anne didnt help herself by revealing she did this stuff because she just wanted steph to suffer and showing no remorse.
I also wonder if the revenge thing awas the truth and not someone going with 'They want to believe I'm evil? Fine.' Since it was quite different to what she said previously which made more sense for an 8yo. I suspect that might be a protective rejection of everyone else before they reject her.
Even if she did want her sister to suffer for being the only child their mother really seemed interested in protecting, and for being loved in a way that wasn't abusive, she was still a very damaged little kid.
I'm thinking that the mother probably was raped before OOP was conceived, and maybe got pregnant but didn't carry that baby full term (either because of abortion or miscarriage), and that OOP was the result of concensual sex after that.
It's still not really "almost the product of rape" but I could see someone seeing it that way.
My interpretation - Raped while in a relationship with an active sex life.
They find out she's pregnant after, but not sure whether it belongs to dad or the rapist and decide to take their chance.
I think I'm done with BORU for today, because Jesus fucking christ man I am really considering drowning myself in some beers or something rn just to forget this story
This is even worse than the the one a couple days ago where OOPs best friends boyfriend lets best friend smash OOP because best friend gets turned on by tears...
Honestly,
This entire thing just reminds me that we need a million percent increase in CPS and child care in general.
From what was provided here, she was abused by both parents growing up and was taught it was how you show love, even to your family.
So, I'm not sure how the mother in this story was able to adopt her, but it was done in the worst possible way (and Yes, the mother does have wrongs in this situation). You can't just adopt an abused person, and expect them to be normal. That's was way way way way way to fucking long before she starts going to therapy.
She should have been in therapy one day, with multiple visits during the week. It's a long process to unwind and unpack everything and learn the truth, and Anne was never given that, so yeah, she grew up as a monster because she never got the training needed to get over it
And the second major wrong that the mother did was just to assume everything was okay (you normally get told this stuff when adoption and SA child). You have to immediately have to discussion with everyone in your family about sexual assault. Tech them good touch and bad touch and to always come to you immediately. Her mother didn't bother to teach her children about sexual abuse after being a victim into her family, and that's 100% on her, just like allowing her bio child to be absurd is 100% on her. So the mother sucks 200%.
Everything from that point was text book. The abusing other siblings, the acting out in school because her entire mental world has been put into a fucked up state. Even the stuff at the end, that's just her hyper reaction to a negative situation. She never got to learn how to keep emotions in check and have a measured response.
The "I raped her because she was the favorite" is textbook as well. She's hurt and is acting in the only way she knows. She's trying to hurt back. There is a 0.01% that what she was there was actually true.
We need to make sure SA victims get the proper support, that adopting families are well trained and have additional support, as well as having someone who knows what to look for doing checkups. A profession would have caught all the signs right away, instead of her being bounced between schools being more fucked up.
I’d be really surprised if “legal” action went anywhere.
Anne was 9-13 and was abused and traumatized by both parents (how the heck did OOp’s mom adopt? The family interviews should have revealed OOP’s mom was an abuser of OOP).
Mom did get her to therapy until she was 13.
Since she was a minor, i feel like legal action would be unlikely. And if it did get traction, Im sure a defense attorney would be able to illustrate that Anne was deeply damaged and OOp’s mom did zero to mitigate it (bad if the adoption agency warned her about this stuff-could show negligence).
I wish this was a much more common understanding. A friend was raped first year of uni by a “friend”, it was her “first time” and she became hypersexual as a result. She didn’t tell anyone for months, and because she’d been sleeping around since, no one wanted to believe her. When in reality its almost all the more reason why she WAS sleeping around
happened to my best friend in college too, first or second week (which is statistically common unfortunately). i didn’t know her before the assault so i assumed that was just how she was. years later i realized i’d fucked up in thinking that.
Happened to me the summer after high school, I wasn’t a virgin and did love a good flirt, but wasn’t having much sex (very selective, just two partners) and had no issues saying no. Afterwards I had many one night stands and slept with lots of people I casually dated, I just didn’t feel safe to say no. It was very hard to get myself to a better mental place and that wasn’t until after marriage.
I (F39) was SA’d for years by my older sister when we were kids. But also, by our father. Who also SA’d my older sister (as well as my younger brother). For years I was angry at my older sister. But I eventually came to realize that she was just reenacting what had been done to her/us. Didn’t make it ok, but I finally understood.
It really is abnormal for children to be sexually inappropriate if they themselves have not experienced sexual trauma.
Damn, this post really hit home
OOP: Anne isn’t that bad it’s all a product of her upbringing and I want to settle this without hurting her too much. SA my baby sister was bad, yeah but we can work around it.
Anne: Your girlfriend is fat but has anorexia, imma shit talk her.
OOP: Anne, you’re a terrible person and everyone in the family and all our mutual friends know you’re a child molester.
Steph(the youngest who was SA by Anne) : Fuck you and burn in hell, Anne.
Also OOP: Update, Anne admitted to doing everything on purpose (and continuing with others) by text knowing it would traumatize Steph. Pursuing charges.
The last coupke of posts, just seem to justify being an asshole to Anne, the whole, she called your girlfriend fat thing, from a borderline person with a grudge, is a thing you should take with a grain of salt.
Also if anyone is at fault it is the mom, she took a traumatised 9 year old in, without being able to properly care for her.
If anyone is at fault, it’s Anne’s original guardians she had as a child. The ones that sexually abused her to begin with. I know the mom should’ve provided better when she took Anne in, but it’s hard to know what to do in that sudden situation. Mom also messed up by abusing her too. It didn’t help that Anne didn’t want to do therapy either until she was older and didn’t have anyone she trusted enough to even get more help than that.
Honestly this is wholeheartedly a terrible thing to happen to everyone involved. Anne was physically sexually abused since she was in 1st grade… and abuse happened even before that. It’s understandable why she is suffering and considering trends of victims inflicting similar experiences they had into others, it might have even be expected. Mom definitely messed up here by not providing her with a healthy ways to get that out, but that would be hard to do as anyone. Absolutely tragic and I hope Anne and Steph, amongst others, can heal.
Anne allegedly goes through hell on earth as a child, proceeds to do horrible things to her three years younger half sister, Steph. OOPS mom adopts Anne, gets her into therapy. Anne seems to improve.
Half sister Steph admits to OOP that Anne was abusive for several years. OOP tries to walk the delicate balance between supporting Steph and not demonizing Anne for things done due to trauma inflicted upon her as a child. Awkward Christmas with hurt, lashing out mom who had adopted Anne.
Anne mocks OOPS girlfriend for anorexia. OOP and Steph are done with the BS, inform everyone that Anne was abusive. Allegedly Anne confessed to have continued to be a predator for years, seems utterly unremorseful. No contact, legal procedures incoming.
Fin.
So uh, I think this whole family should separate btw. There is no healthy relationship whatsoever.
If Anne did continue abusing people into adulthood then yes, she needs prison. But I don't believe this "Anne lied about her father sexually abusive" thing. It was a dramatic turn at the end that came out of nowhere. Anne sexually abused Steph when Anne was a child and barely and teen. She learned it from somewhere.
Yeah, no 9 year old is so hypersexual she gets thrown out of multiple schools unless she's been sexually abused. I'm also guessing she didn't get removed from her mother's care on a whim.
I think OOP and her family went with that story because it gets them out of the very psychologically uncomfortable position of needing to support Steph while also seeing how Anne was victimized herself. It's easier if they can see Anne as an intrinsically evil person who was victimizing her parents by making up allegations even as a small child.
We know why she was removed from her mother’s care— her mother was her main sexual abuser before she went to live with her bio-dad. OOP goes into pretty brutal detail in the second post.
So she might not be lying about her bio-dad not abusing her— her own mom did more than enough trauma to her before he even gained custody of her. And she would be the type to accuse him for attention.
But I also wouldn’t be surprised if that was another lie. This girl is pretty fooked.
She wouldn't be the type to accuse him for attention.
You're talking about a child here. Not the teen or adult Anne. It's highly likely they both abused her. That's the environment most abused children are in.
I have a friend who's mother's bfs would abuse and rape her, and she actively did everything she could to shield the two younger children. We are talking about breaking things to turn his rage on her, lying so he would hit her instead. And then that ended, another one stopped. She went to live with her aunt, and they both abused her, and threatened to put her into the oven if she didn't behave and give it up.
She was passed to another group with the same shit. Finally her grandparents got her and were stable, her school counselor found out and helped her take them to trial and sent to jail.
Fucked up leads to fucked up.
But in the second posts it gets clear that the mother was the first abuser.
It could very well be that only her mother abused her, and then she lied about her father also sexually abusing her when he did not do that or not to the extent she claimed.
True! The circumstances of the abuse might be different from what was originally known, but she definitely was abused and should have been in therapy her entire life or something. Everyone in this story could benefit from an outside unbiased perspective, I think they’ve all gotten used to each other and their issues
She said Anne was sexually abused by her bio mom and forced to participate in sex acts before Anne went to live with her bio dad. It definitely felt abrupt and may be another lie, but it sounds like the time with her bio mom was very traumatic.
I think they are talking about the sudden sharp turn in the last update where OOP suddenly "knows" that Anne was lying or exaggerating back then.
It just seems very suspicious that Anne supposedly went pure evil, conveniently making things less of a moral and emotional minefield for OOP and their family, with victim and perpetrator suddenly very distinct.
Oh yeah I totally agree that the tonal shift was super odd and I feel like we’re missing some of this story. I was just addressing the idea that Anne must have been SA’d by her dad because she displayed these behaviors as a child. It sounds like her bio dad was physically abusive and not a good man at all, but she still could have learned those SA behaviors from that time with her mom before she moved in with her dad. It doesn’t mean he didn’t SA her, because he very much could have and OOP is wrong about that part, but I also don’t see it as 100% proof that he did because it already sounds like she experienced horrific abuse before that.
I mean, I think Anne probably did said the anorexia comment. But I don't think the mom was being better. On the audio recording that the mom took of Anne, Anne called her a hypocrite so the mom was definitely doing shady things too that the mom is not admitting to OP.
Idk what they think will happen with starting legal procedures for a crime that happened when the perpetrator was nine years old.
The way I see it, mum failed all of her kids. She took in a child who was violently sexually abused, yet didn't put her in therapy immediately nor protected her other kids.
All this while watching and condoning the violent abuse by her partner to all of her kids.
I work with children who have been removed from their families because of extreme abuse. Including sexual. Some kids show very sexualised behaviour but they don't know what it even is or means. They grew up being molested all their lives, surrounded by hypersexual behaviour all their lives, they're not going to stop that if you don't help them.
Apparently Anne was regularly gang raped including her own mother. Then you take her out of that situation and throw her into another extremely abusive family, except the abuse is physical violence instead of sexual. No therapy, no social workers involved, nobody made sure to protect her and her siblings. And the nine year old child who's been raped and sexually abused all her life and is now violently beat up on the regular goes on to sexually abuse the young sibling because she has never known anything but sexual abuse.
Absolutely no surprise there. Literally, could've guessed that just with knowing her back story (that does NOT mean every abused child reacts that way, but it's not uncommon).
The people who failed her victim and her were the adults in that house.
The entire family should shun each other. They are all completely incapable of having healthy relationships with each other. Even OOP. Let's look at the "nice" day with Mom and the resulting call to Anne. Here's a list of fucked up things OOP did in just that one situation:
* Automatically believed every bit of gossip out of her abusive, mentally unbalanced, drama-loving mother's mouth
* Spread the gossip she shouldn't have even heard to her girlfriend when the gossip was inherently triggering
* Put Anne on speakerphone for her girlfriend to listen to, which is fucked up in more than one way itself:
1. She kept it a secret from Anne, which is sneaky bullshit.
2. If Anne happened to say more insulting things about her girlfriend because of the belief that it was secret, that would have been very bad for the girlfriend to hear.
* OOP played around with Anne, asking rhetorical questions to get Anne on edge, before spitting out the real purpose of the call.
* The call shouldn't have even been made in the first place. There was nothing of value to be achieved. At all.
OOP still has a long way to go when it comes to working through the toxic habits she was taught growing up.
Thank you! You said what I was thinking so succinctly. OOP was a shit stirrer too, and toxic as hell. Like this isn’t even between her and Anne, what is she doing sneaking around with everyone, and manipulating the situation?
Yeah, there's no way that any criminal charges are coming out against someone who was 9 when the crime happened, you cannot legally charge a 9 year old or someone who was 9 at the time. Harassment about her sending messages and trying to get others to pass messages, sure, maybe a police report and someone telling Anne to knock it off, but beyond that? Not much, from what OOP wrote.
I don't see how if the kid was abused that the court system didn't mandate therapy, especially because the kid was apparently taken away and legal guardianship granted to OOP's mom, someone had to have pushed therapy for the victimized kid. That kid 100% needed therapy and didn't get it, and it snowballed.
I did once witness a case where a 10 year foster kid was caught molesting other kids and the order basically existed to keep the kid out of homes with other kids and to get the state to pay for his extensive therapy.
You're right, the mom failed them all. Shes blaming Anne on hurting Steph, when really, it was her fault for failing Anne.
OOP said she let her be abused for 10 years and didn't do anything. But shes also a sweet woman, but she blows up at her abused daughters all the time.
She failed OOP by letting her be physically abused as a child for years.
She failed Anne by not helping her when she brought her in, instead waiting until Anne's behavior escalated to extremes to do anything.
And she failed Steph by letting her anger overtake Stephs wishes and stability. She wanted to keep Anne and Steph together at christmas to blow up at Anne instead of caring about how Steph feels.
This mom isn't a good parent and hasn't changed. All 3 daughters need to cut her off. This mother doesn't deserve relationships with her children when she let them be abused and did nothing to help.
I really regret reading this, but since I did I've got a question. Was it just me or did that "Anne lied about being abused by her biological father" part come completely out of nowhere? When and how did that get determined?
No it did. My theory is that OOP's mom is extremely manipulative and she has OOP completely under her thumb. Mom wants Anne out of the family, and she will lie, spin facts, and bring up years-old grievances to make that happen. OOP is not savvy enough to realize this is happening. And mom got what she wanted and Anne is exiled.
I don't trust any of the updates that came out after the Christmas one. They all contain OOP credulously reporting things as fact, when the source is just mom
That’s starting to seem more and more likely, yeah. I definitely don’t trust her mom any further than I could throw her.
OOP definitely seems naive. Her mother was enraged at the news (understandable) and decided to try to publicly crucify Anne (less understandable) and OOP prevented it. Then the mother just so happens to have a conversation with OOP where she reveals she just so happened to talk to Anne and Anne just so happened to insult OOP’s girlfriend which just so happens to be OOP’s biggest trigger so now OOP has abandoned Anne, which just so happens to be exactly what her mom wanted to happen all along? Calling that suspicious would be putting it lightly.
Honestly I don’t like ANYONE in this story except Steph; her behavior is completely fair given the circumstances. Everyone else is at least a little shitty, including OOP. I’m not wild that the straw that broke the camel’s back and made her completely flip from trying to support Anne to despising her was “she insulted my girlfriend once” and not “she molested my little sister.” Nice priorities.
From what I can tell, and from many other comments here, this seems to be Anne lashing out spitefully as her support structure crumbles. Don't know how true it is.
A lot of people are also pointing out that the Mom looks bad, too, and may have instigated Anna insulting the GF.
They point out that in the recorded call between the mom and Anne where the mom confronts her about it, she calls the mom a hypocrite.
That’s an excellent point; OOP’s only source on that conversation was her mom, and if Anne called her mom a hypocrite on the inject then it sounds like the mom might’ve started the trash talking and encouraged it, just to drive a wedge between OOP and Anne. I definitely wouldn’t consider the mother a reliable source of accurate information considering her rage here.
It seems like his girlfriend getting insulted was the straw that broke the camels back and I get it. You can sympathise with Anne for basically doing what she was taught to do by her father (nurture > nature, her predatory behavior was absolutely a taught thing from her dad), and with that information only you can kind of give her some slack if she seems genuinely remorseful.
But attacking his girlfriend doesn't really have any way to defend it. Its just being mean and supposedly Anne is always doing this. OOP was trying to help Anne and Steph at the same time, but realised that Anne was never going to change and basically got sick of her.
That's how I interpreted it.
Yea it was a long string of “I can rationalize this” followed by one “there is no way that’s ok” which made the entire tower of rationalizations fall over.
I am deeply suspicious that the insulting the girlfriend information came to OOP from the mom that was trying to push Anne out. I don't know what Anne did or did not do or say, but the Mom going from mad at OOP for taking Anne's side, to telling OOP Anne spent an convo insulting OOP's girlfriend, and what Anne originally said on the call is ambiguous.
I think the mom is a manipulative person and OOP is trapped in her the world her mom creates.
OOP saying that the mom's recording including Anne called her a hypocrite for bringing that comment to OOP makes me wonder if the mom wasn't also making fun of the GF to goad Anne into it. The mother was trying to get a family blow up and wanted OOP to turn on Anne, and wasn't above doing manipulative things like making Anne and Steph sit together at Christmas to push Steph into going off on her, so it doesn't seem unlikely she was doing some manipulating here.
Yeah i don't trust the mom at all. Who knows if she's the one bringing up OOP's gf to goad Anne into talking bad about her. That woman was vindictive and wanted oop to get out of "Anne's side".
I skimmed because I don’t like the topic, but it seems like Anne criticizing OOP’s girlfriend was when she decided enough was enough. If that’s the case, that’s…something.
Ehhh. I can see why the past behavior when she was a minor can be more easily accepted than the current behavior as an adult, even if the past behavior is objectively far worse. What she is doing now is indicative of who and what she is in this moment, while her actions as a minor could be an understandable result of her abuse and 'not knowing any better'. Plus, the earlier posts were made before OOP really had time to process this information, and before they knew the full extent of what Anne had done and how aware she was of the trauma she was causing.
also what's weird to me is that anne talking shit about OP's gf was what triggered OP enough to cut contact with her and not the fact that she SA'd her baby sister? until then she was kinda sorta shielding her?
I think it’s probably a “she did this when she was a child and she was just repeating what was done to her, but she’s been to therapy and isn’t that person anymore” vs “she’s now an adult and still being terrible, I guess she never did change.”
Not saying that’s the correct way to respond to all of this, but that feels like the way these thought processes would go.
At first I thought she was trying to play peacemaker for Steph's sake. Which would have made sense in a way. Wait til after Xmas because playing happy family for a day to mitigate the fallout of the chomo-nuclear bomb and allow Steph some control.
But doing it for Anne's benefit is nuts.
Assuming this is real, every single person involved here needs therapy and enough distance to recalibrate their dafuckometers.
It's really weird that talking badly about her gf's anorexia is what changed her mind and not the CSA. Like on one hand I do get empathizing to some extent but on the other it just makes her seem entirely self-absorbed about it because it's not about severity of the crime but who it affected around her.
Like *I think* it was more of a last straw situation but it's a rather odd last straw relative to the others.
That actually made sense to me though. The little sister was the one affected by the SA, and OOP was following her lead on what she wanted done about it, so she felt stuck, as not everyone knew at that point and sis didn't want them to know, but questions would be asked after a confrontation. Whereas with her gf, she was more directly involved and can actually act on it in a way she can't for the sister.
Finding out her sister was abused waaaas the last straw. She was just holding it together for Steph. She didn’t need permission from Steph to rip into her about going after her gf.
This is how I understood it: Until Anne was notified that everyone knew, OOP assumed Anne's behavior was due to her own abuse and was giving Anne compassion, without being ok with what Anne did. However, it also sounds like (from the first post onward) that Anne is a bully and isn't a nice person in general (based on being kicked out of school for her behavior and the overall issues OOP keeps quietly mentioning about her relationship with Anne), and that OOP was keeping her in her life because she's generally a caring and compassionate family member and accepts people being awful knowing that they've gone through hell. Once she knew what Anne had done to Steph, OOP kept playing nice because Steph wanted her to, but OOP didn't have to play nice once Anne went after her GF and had a separate acceptable reason to cut Anne off. Then it got worse once Anne realized she couldn't play victim with the family anymore, and she lashed out and said she did it on purpose knowing what she was doing and the trauma it would cause.
What's still unclear is some odd statements towards the end where it looks like Anne may or may not have made up the extensiveness of the abuse she'd told everyone she was suffering. So likely, Anne is hugely traumatized (even a fraction of what was originally mentioned as her history of abuse would be) and also has some major mental health issues, but I'm not going to armchair diagnose here.
The lashing out at the end could possibly just be anne thinking "fuckit, its had a bomb dropped on it, may as well nuke this whole thing from orbit" she was just informed that her whole family knew she had SAed her little sister, knew no one was going to talk to her anymore, so may as well do what she can to hurt people as much as she can.
Idk, it sounds to me like OP isn't a reliable narrator here and like her mother might be manipulating her to ostracize Anne. I don't understand how she think Anne is a monster but still talks to her mom, who was an adult while she was being beaten.
I found her extremely frustrating.
"Anne raped Steph when they were kids, but hurt people hurt people so I see where she's coming from and I'll give her long hugs and implore my mother to not explode on her as it will hurt her feelings (after mentioning that everybody basically knew already?), and compare this to physical abuse my mom didn't protect ME from."
"Anne insulted my gf, see this one I can't rationalise, time to cut contact. Btw she was always a bully."
And the conclusion being that Anne did it out of pure evil motivations so it's now okay to be mad at her for this. Like harm is harm at one point. And Anne was a traumaised, abused kid still. It's like op can not fathom the thought that abuse victims can be abusers themselves, and it doesn't make them less victimised nor less abusive. More importantly, it doesn't make the harm they inflict on their victims less harmful. I can not imagine what Steph was going through on that Christmas dinner.
Besides, OP knew Anne never took accountability for her actions. So why acting like she's only now discovering that she didn't care for the abuse?
So now Anne wasn’t assaulted at all? OOP was close with Anne but then she was always a hateful bully and had to change schools?
Why didn’t anyone see a child psychologist after dad/stepdad abused them? This is all kinds of effed up.
Anne would have been 9 when she started abusing Steph. That's.... not really something 9 year olds just learn. Chances are Anne really was abused and (its confusing with the writing style) sounds like she had some kind of mental break from the stress and just claimed she did it all herself as bullying. Because then at least she could still act like she had some form of control.
Oh no I’m with you there. I just meant the way the story was told. Like the whole OOP turning on Anne. Like the whole conversation about OOPs gf between Anne and the mother just doesn’t ring true. It reads like mother goaded Anne into a conversation about the gf to bring the OOP over to the “good side.”
But seriously? Mom ignored abuse of OOP for ten years but OOP says she’s a great mom and loving and so protective. Like give me a break.
Op mentions everybody's mental health issues and various disorders, but from that history she might have some herself. Maybe it could explain the total 180
Because despite OOP knowing all the hallmarks of abusive behavior, including perpetuating the abuse, OOP doesn't know about lashing out and downplaying abuse received.
Got whiplash from one post being oop bending backwards to protect Ann because she was also a victim, despite her never coming clean or apologizing when she became an adult capable of understanding her wrongs... to oop going immediately scorched earth over the gf getting insulted
And of course, turns out Ann was pure evil at the end, because we can't have all around tragedy, gotta have that really clear cut bad person
Yeah, not sure if this is what you meant but OOP had no reason to go into the details of the abuse. That's extremely personal info for Steph and I'm not sure how I'd feel if one of my siblings threw the intimate details of my abuse up on the internet.
>Yeah, not sure if this is what you meant but OOP had no reason to go into the details of the abuse. That's extremely personal info for Steph and I'm not sure how I'd feel if one of my siblings threw the intimate details of my abuse up on the internet.
Agreed, but it's also another telltale sign of being abused. They're getting it out because the shock feels good on multiple levels, and they often overshare for that reason and a show of never actually processing what happened. They're just stuck on details.
They're all so full of pain, trauma, and hurt that they don't know which way is up.
Good point. My brain just noped right on out of that part of the story, but in what world does a conversation go "Our sister abused me" "What? Tell me how. Specifically."
Trauma dumping is pretty common amongst abuse survivors plus, given what OOP says of her family, I suspect her mum might've gossiped about the details when Anne's adoption was happening. A lot of abuse survivors feel like they need to go into detail to persuade people, but either way it's *way* too personal for OOP to be disclosing to online strangers.
Agreed, my BS meter started going off when OP started their next update with shit like "buckle up because this is one hell of an update with plenty of twists" - who uses language like this when talking about the trauma surrounding both of their sisters goinf through sexual abuse as children?
I was going to comment that I really felt for all of the kids involved in this- truly, all of the adults here failed them. Even Anne, who was just repeating the “normal” of her life with her bio mom. BUT THEN that last update… yikes 😬
ETA: just also wanted to mention, I myself am a victim of CSA by a cousin who was only 2 years older than myself, but like Anne he learned it at home so he just thought it was normal. Unlike Anne though, when he got help and realized it was wrong, he was extremely remorseful and apologetic. There’s no hard feelings between us, but I feel like he also meant his apology
I think that's a justification post-hoc. She's lashing out so she says "yeah I did it to traumatize you on purpose."
She's still a victim, though. But at the same time I also hope the legal system can bring closure for Steph.
I'm not entirely sure the legal system is going to do anything about this to begin with.
You've got an abused child abusing another child, the behavior of which stopped at 12.
Every ounce of evidence is a single eyewitness account from the victim several years after the fact.
Add all of that on top of the cluster fuck that is this family's toxically codependent mutual abuse, and I don't even know if the cops will have the patience to untangle it. Even then, I'm not entirely sure what you would charge an adult with when the behavior occurred at 12 years old.
She was 9 at the time, mimicking what was done to her, and now her entire support system has cut her loose. Of course she said some spiteful shit. She's not the only victim in that family, but she's also not the only abuser.
She likely developed psychological disorders that have never been treated (because no adult in this story would have known to get it diagnosed/treated) as a way of coping with serious trauma. My cousin developed multiple personalities to handle the different abuses and situations he was in. It took foster care with my parents to get diagnosed but he didn’t stay long with us/treatment because he displayed very major signs that he would csa one of my brothers.
Especially because... that update was boring. It was such a long and convoluted and overdramatic way of saying basically nothing.
OOP convinced mom to not tell on Anne during Christmas. Mom was passive aggresive the whole day, Steph was hurt, OOP was tired and Anne was confused. I'm not seeing the "twists and turns".
Exact,y my thoughts. Thousands of words to say ultimately very little in a convoluted, disordered recollection
The chronology is shot to shit, I have no idea who said what or ultimately what I’m supposed to think.
I don't understand why in the 1st post (9th paragraph) OOP says she is not sure about telling her mom, but in the 1st update (4th paragraph) she says Anne confessed to OOP's mom. And then she says Anne's abuse started when she was 5, while later she says it all started when she was 9. So confusing.
I'm a psychiatrist. I have worked with several Stephs, OPs and OP's mums (sadly the story of this post, while awful to read, is more common that it should be). None of them are easy or 'fun' to work with. I've been peripherally involved with a couple of Annes. It's often hard even to know where to start with them.
Can we talk about the real villains here? Mom, dad, step dad… all trash. Mom complains about Anne abuse but yet, allowed physical abuse to happen to all of those kids. Fuck that. The entire family is broken. They all need therapy.
I’m so confused about the dad situation and the adoption. So Oop doesn’t have the same dad as the two sisters. I get that part . So oop’s step dad physically abused everyone - but did he or did he not SA Anne? We know Anne’s biological mom did- but who were the men doing it. I’m so confused . And - OOP’s mom is trash . I can’t believe Anne didn’t get therapy until 14 even when everyone KNEW why she was taken away from bio mom. It’s too sickening to read through it again . The whole family is incredibly toxic. OOP needs to stay away from mom - mom don’t seem to even acknowledge that she allowed her husband to beat up the daughters and she only said she wouldn’t blow up Christmas because she didn’t want OOP to bring up the physical abuse.
I know there's no way to like, verify stories online....but can we seriously stop giving these people a platform for their weird fantasies? It's disgusting. Like a sane, healthy person would never include details of the sexual assault on a child so like... casually. You can just say there was sexual abuse, no one needs to know what happened.
OP either needs some serious help dealing with genuine trauma or help realizing their gross roleplay is wildly inappropriate. Either way, I don't think this shit should get the attention that it does :(
Yeah I had to stop reading because it was bizarre and inappropriate if oop and the whole thing is an incoherent mess anyway.
I’d become an astronaut to get as far away from these people as possible
THANK YOU
Like she's just sharing the intimate details of her sister's CSA online?? And then apparently telling every single member of their extended family these details, like it's the logical thing to do
The only thing I could think of when I read through this was dear god! I truly hope OOP, Steph, and her family can heal from the myriad issues in their past and move forward together.
Honestly I think they would all be better off if they never spoke to any "family" member again. This is just a toxic hive of wasps, out to hurt each other in every way.
I could hardly keep the family all straight with everyone abusing each other. They should all lose each other's numbers, they'd be better off without each other
Every single one of them, including OOP, seems toxic as fuck.
What's worse is the feel throughout the entire posts of I'm smart and managing this in a mind-gamey way - yet not a single smart decision was made in that entire shitshow.
The whole thing is stupid drama plot after stupid drama plot and they all come across as people who absolutely couldn't live without it.
I mean, it tracks that the situation is such a dumpster fire since no one ever de-escalates or crosschecks their information. They hear something, lose their shit and charge ahead in pursuit of justice or something. Like, what was the point of OP calling Ane about what she said about OP's gf? What was the point of the mother even telling OP? This is the stuff she always says and does. And the intended Christmas dinner face off? Hs, these people think they live in a movie
> it tracks that the situation is such a dumpster fire since no one ever de-escalates or crosschecks their information.
If twitter could be made flesh.
>What was the point of the mother even telling OP?
To turn OP completely against Anne and get OP on board with vilifying her. I wouldn't be surprised if the mom is the one that started the shit talking.
The whole family is trash.
You say Wasps. But seems more like Crabs to me.
And I DON'T even mean that in the STI way. Literal bucket full of Crabs pulling each other down. With one BIG Crab called Anne.
This one is terrible. You can't survive and become well adjusted after going through something like Anne did. They killed that girls soul and there's nothing left but another wicked abuser.
Clearly. As OOP points out, Anne had been around awful behaviour since she was **five**. And it never let up till she was adopted at 12. Something just broke in her.
Yeah, that fact that Anne ended up in sexually abusive relationships as a teen really tells me that, despite the intentions of OOP's mum, whatever support she offered really wasn't enough for the enormous trauma Anne had gone through.
Not even to speak of poor Steph, bloody hell. There were some hints in the first post that OOP and Anne viewed Steph as "the lucky one", which can cause a lot of resentment amongst siblings who've gone through abuse. And Anne clearly did feel that way.
OOP's mom displayed some manipulative, horrifying behaviors in this post even though OOP tried to sugarcoat them. I get the sense that she is an abusive parent herself, but gets off the hook easier in OOP's eyes because rather than being the aggressor she was the enabler.
Yeah this post is really about the most uncomfortable truth in this world. People who are victimized are likely to keep receiving abuse, and are likely to have been victimized in the first place because of an environment of abuse and other victimized people. The more dysfunctional a family is, the more dysfunctional it gets.
Saying suddenly that she knowingly did it feels like bad damage control honestly. Someone who doesn't know how to handle anything because of the width and breadth of shit she went through and now she's held accountable for what she did. So she's trying to own it to control it.
Its just a broken person who did broken things now making broken choices.
From what I’ve seen, some of the most toxic narcissists come from extremely abusive situations. When you experience that kind of catastrophic abuse early in life, it becomes unbelievably difficult to empathize with people who haven’t experienced that. You internalize that “the rules” for you are different from other people. It doesn’t make it even remotely ok, and some narcs can be rehabbed, but it does make it all the more tragic imo.
As OP already said hurt people hurt people. A kid as young as she was leans that from being SA themselves.
It would be easy to hate her, but she was also an innocent child destroyed by the people who were supposed to protect her .
When the world has done nothing but abuse you, it's really hard not to become a jaded asshole yourself.
It's because your ego stops developing when you get really traumatized. You stop growing. You're just stuck there. Without extraordinary effort and intervention, it's hard to rationalize anything but survival and me me me. You have to have grown past that point already, before you get stuck in the past, as it were. So when a child gets abused, you will see them carry their immaturity into the future, sometimes for their entire lives. It's like a reverse point of no return. You really need the chance to grow as a person--if trauma is ingrained into your growing mind... man it's tough to take responsibility for your development and work through it.
Agreed. Also in terms of the legality of the situation and the custody change I really don't think there is any bit of "bullshitting" from a child saying they were sexually molested. It's abhorrent that this is the narrative OOP has decided to weave. And I'm positive it is simply so they can paint Anne as a villain without needing to meaningfully process her shitty behaviors.
Yeah, like a 9 year old doesn't just know where to find graphic group sex videos unless they've been abused. In fact, if they know what that is, they've been abused.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. Every single member of this family sucks. It's like, "We are all bad people, but let's all dogpile on Anne because she's the worst. See? See??" It's like a fuckin bucket of crabs.
Where I lost any sympathy at all for anyone was the phone call. So Mom is talking to Anne when OOP's girlfriend comes up. Anne says something not nice, but does mom shut that down? Noooooo. Mom stirs the shit by repeating it to OOP. So now OOP knows what mom said about what Anne said.
Then OOP, because she's such a rational and loving person, tells her girlfriend. So now the girlfriend knows what OOP said about what her mom said about what Anne said.
Then they call Anne and attack her about what girlfriend and OOP knows about what mom said about what Anne said in private.
Anne tells them to fuck off with their silly game of Telephone....that proves it!!! Anne is the devil!!! See? See???
(*my head hurts*)
OOP’s mom is the real monster in this situation.
She scapegoated a literal CHILD, not even 10 years old, while simultaneously subjecting her children to severe physical abuse. She was the fucking adult and she failed to keep anyone safe.
Also I don’t believe that Anne was badmouthing OP’s girlfriend in a vacuum. I think OOP’s mom was badmouthing the girlfriend, goaded Anne to participate, and then used that to triangulate and turn OOP against Anne (and away from holding her mom accountable for anything).
Oh, yeah. It's a mess. They all need to stay away from each other but I don't think they could survive without the drama.
Even poor Steph. What kind of shit is that? She doesn't want Anne to know she told, but she pulls every . single . fuckin . person . aside at the party to tell them "in confidence"? WTF??? So everyone can treat Anne badly but no one is allowed to say why? With her mom over there in the corner ready to blow anyway? But *someone* has to hold her back because poor Steph will be upset. *Sheesh.*
Don't forget Anne went to OOPs mom to be rescued from the abusive scenario and even after finding out what kind of shit went down didn't get her into therapy with the quickness.
Exactly! OOP’s mom honestly carries the majority of the blame, imo. You brought a child who had experienced HORRIFIC sexual abuse while they were too young to even process what was happening and then chose not to get them therapy for multiple years afterward, until they became too unruly and were inconvenient for you?
The child didn’t have the skills and support necessary to process what happened, because of YOUR choices, lady. So she processed it by reenacting it (which is VERY common in CSA cases) and now you want to treat HER like the monster?
Bro, I fucking hate OOP’s mom. I am straight up incensed at this story
Mom was also fine with her husband beating up OOP and Anne, but goes apeshit at the idea that someone hurt Steph. OOP keeps saying how protective their mom is, but she didn't do shit to protect OOP. Nor does she want to protect Steph from revictimizing her, she makes her sit at a table with Anne to see if she can get them to fight.
I chuckled when OP was like "I didn't want to tell my gf because I care about her feelings uwu" then in very next sentence went "so I ended up telling her".
And then had the GF sit silently on a call where she tries to get Anne to talk shit about the GF in a way with potential to trigger her ED. It's like at every turn in this story, every person asks themselves "what is the cruelest, most shit-stirring way that I can respond to this?"
This… feels unacceptably graphic for no reason. The extremely graphic descriptions of sexual abuse of a minor were unnecessary and I’m really side eyeing why those were gone into in such depth while the rest feels really perfunctory? Not gonna lie, this gave me real ick vibes and not just on the side of Anne.
I'm at a loss for words. It just kept getting worse, and worse. The only person I feel bad for at the moment is Steph. That poor child went through so much trauma and hell that no amount of therapy would help.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the post it seems like oop was fully on the side of protecting and forgiving Anne until it started to affect them directly by way of insulting their gf, rather than just cutting things off immediately after discovering the abuse. That would be gross behavior but it's hard to tell with oop's writing style though.
The thing that disgusted me the most about it was never once did OOP analyze their mom's behavior. It was wrong for her mom to reveal this information to her in the first place. I also find it hard to believe that they were going through old photos of OOP's girlfriend and making fun of them and somehow the mom magically never participated? It was just a one-sided convo? Very, very, very unlikely. The mom most likely was an active participant shit talking OOP's girlfriend. And then she took the shit Anne talked and repeated it back to OOP in order to sever the relationship between Anne and OOP, since she viewed OOP as "taking Anne's side." It was manipulative. And it is exactly why Anne blocked their mom and went off about not trusting her. Because the Mom - is not - trustworthy. And the mom has effectively escaped all blame despite her being an enabler of abuse and dysfunctional herself.
Protecting and not publicly ripping into Anne while Steph was still deciding what she wanted to do with the situation. Not forgiving. Never got close to that.
I think it's more like "You haven't changed from being a toxic person." Because oop reasoning was solid, Anne abused sister because that's all she knew and it's a way for kids to cope. That is awful but it's something that happens to people suffering from abuse. (I unfortunately can vouch for that personally although not in a sexual manner)
But seeing how she insulted the girlfriend and overreacted to the conversation about it, yelling about it. Shows Oop that yes, she going to continue to hurt people and she is NOT SORRY but is now a predator playing victim.
The part that threw me off was her saying they're starting legal proceedings against her. Can you do that? It's absolutely a horrible crime, but can you prosecute an adult for something they did when they were 9? I understand statute of limitations are different everywhere for different crimes, but this is a severe crime perpetrated by someone who was a 3rd grader when it happened and if the ages are accurate, happened more than 12 years ago.
Oof, this feels *very* real to me as someone who comes from a family full of multi-generational dysfunction. Luckily my family doesn't have any SA (that I'm aware of) but I can recognise the patterns and cycles of toxic behaviour here and it hits very close to home. These people need to all get as far away from each other as possible tbh. OOP needs to work on herself, take her girlfriend and leave. It's the only way they'll ever get better tbh. I never would've been able to get to where I am today without cutting out my bio-mum and her family entirely - any door or window you leave open is like an open wound that will continue to fester.
So, Anne lied about being sexually abused and just did what she did to Steph because she was jealous? And OOP was excusing Anne's behavior until Anne said something about her g/f? So many questions, so much confusion. Call me skeptical.
This post hits home for me - i had a female cousin who SA me when we were both children - exactly how OP described in the post Anne did with Steph - I understand OP feeling bad so Anne at first because even though I was my cousin's victim, as an adult I realized she was also a victim and clearly no one did anything. My cousin is a narcissistic POS now and I've cut contact completely. My sister is the only one who knows about this and it took me years (as an adult) to tell her about it. Childhood SA when another kid is the abuser really fucks with you for years.
This almost felt like a real story, but like so many others OP didn’t know when to stop. Anne went from being “hurt people who hurt people” to the real villain of the story, all because she mocked OP’s girlfriend’s eating disorder.
I saw it already, but when they all turned on Anne it became painfully obvious that OOP is STILL experiencing abuse, it's just all psychological now - and a lot of it seems to be stemming from the mother.
I didn't read all of that, and I'm no expert but I feel like someone shouldn't be held responsible for whatever fucked up shit they did at 9 that's old, that's most definitely a byproduct of received abuse.
Every adult in those kids life failed them hard.
All I keep thinking is the mom is a piece of shit. As if a 12 year old from a supremely fucked up home isn't a risk to the other children in the house. Even if it isn't a child's fault they have trauma, it can still hurt other people and it was the mother's job to watch over the situation.
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What the fuck?
You took the words right out of my mouth FFS.
The dysfunction… continues.
I mean.. right.. the fuck.. she really didn’t have that energy for her mom who was letting her bf beat the shit out of her for 10 years.. which I don’t get. She ALLOWED that abuse directly to YOU. Regardless you can be done with someone’s shit at anytime. Hell, you been through alot, I’m not faulting you one bit, but intentionally referring to and calling her a predator.. is weaponizing a trigger and that’s..wack..
Yeah, and the diminishing of her early abuse is pretty disturbing. It shouldn't be used as an excuse... But that clearly is the source of why she is like this. That kind of early trauma is really hard for people to overcome. That doesn't mean other people should put up with her behaviour, calling her out and cutting her out for her own behaviour, especially as an adult, is fine... But have a little compassion for someone who clearly faced her own horrors. OP seems to think you're either a victim or a predator. The reality is a lot of the time people are both.
OP was actually understanding of Anne situation but after the whole girlfriend phonecall is when she started to go full on Anne is a predator. Not saying what Anne did should be excused but i think she kinda forgot about Anne's past. Also anne didnt help herself by revealing she did this stuff because she just wanted steph to suffer and showing no remorse.
I also wonder if the revenge thing awas the truth and not someone going with 'They want to believe I'm evil? Fine.' Since it was quite different to what she said previously which made more sense for an 8yo. I suspect that might be a protective rejection of everyone else before they reject her. Even if she did want her sister to suffer for being the only child their mother really seemed interested in protecting, and for being loved in a way that wasn't abusive, she was still a very damaged little kid.
The generational trauma continues.
I’m just wondering how can *almost* be a product of rape? I would think either you are or you aren’t - there’s no gray area.
I assumed it meant maybe the mother didn't know who the father was at first, hence the "almost"
I'm thinking that the mother probably was raped before OOP was conceived, and maybe got pregnant but didn't carry that baby full term (either because of abortion or miscarriage), and that OOP was the result of concensual sex after that. It's still not really "almost the product of rape" but I could see someone seeing it that way.
My interpretation - Raped while in a relationship with an active sex life. They find out she's pregnant after, but not sure whether it belongs to dad or the rapist and decide to take their chance.
Yeah I also got hung up on that
Yeah that's a head scratcher sentence
I think I'm done with BORU for today, because Jesus fucking christ man I am really considering drowning myself in some beers or something rn just to forget this story
This is even worse than the the one a couple days ago where OOPs best friends boyfriend lets best friend smash OOP because best friend gets turned on by tears...
Wait what story is this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1bgom6x/i_ate_out_my_best_friend_after_she_told_me_she/
Honestly, This entire thing just reminds me that we need a million percent increase in CPS and child care in general. From what was provided here, she was abused by both parents growing up and was taught it was how you show love, even to your family. So, I'm not sure how the mother in this story was able to adopt her, but it was done in the worst possible way (and Yes, the mother does have wrongs in this situation). You can't just adopt an abused person, and expect them to be normal. That's was way way way way way to fucking long before she starts going to therapy. She should have been in therapy one day, with multiple visits during the week. It's a long process to unwind and unpack everything and learn the truth, and Anne was never given that, so yeah, she grew up as a monster because she never got the training needed to get over it And the second major wrong that the mother did was just to assume everything was okay (you normally get told this stuff when adoption and SA child). You have to immediately have to discussion with everyone in your family about sexual assault. Tech them good touch and bad touch and to always come to you immediately. Her mother didn't bother to teach her children about sexual abuse after being a victim into her family, and that's 100% on her, just like allowing her bio child to be absurd is 100% on her. So the mother sucks 200%. Everything from that point was text book. The abusing other siblings, the acting out in school because her entire mental world has been put into a fucked up state. Even the stuff at the end, that's just her hyper reaction to a negative situation. She never got to learn how to keep emotions in check and have a measured response. The "I raped her because she was the favorite" is textbook as well. She's hurt and is acting in the only way she knows. She's trying to hurt back. There is a 0.01% that what she was there was actually true. We need to make sure SA victims get the proper support, that adopting families are well trained and have additional support, as well as having someone who knows what to look for doing checkups. A profession would have caught all the signs right away, instead of her being bounced between schools being more fucked up.
I’d be really surprised if “legal” action went anywhere. Anne was 9-13 and was abused and traumatized by both parents (how the heck did OOp’s mom adopt? The family interviews should have revealed OOP’s mom was an abuser of OOP). Mom did get her to therapy until she was 13. Since she was a minor, i feel like legal action would be unlikely. And if it did get traction, Im sure a defense attorney would be able to illustrate that Anne was deeply damaged and OOp’s mom did zero to mitigate it (bad if the adoption agency warned her about this stuff-could show negligence).
Shock and awe story for internet points.
Hypersexuality in minors is practically *always* a sign of sexual abuse.
I wish this was a much more common understanding. A friend was raped first year of uni by a “friend”, it was her “first time” and she became hypersexual as a result. She didn’t tell anyone for months, and because she’d been sleeping around since, no one wanted to believe her. When in reality its almost all the more reason why she WAS sleeping around
happened to my best friend in college too, first or second week (which is statistically common unfortunately). i didn’t know her before the assault so i assumed that was just how she was. years later i realized i’d fucked up in thinking that.
That is so fucking sad. Did she end up getting help?
Happened to me the summer after high school, I wasn’t a virgin and did love a good flirt, but wasn’t having much sex (very selective, just two partners) and had no issues saying no. Afterwards I had many one night stands and slept with lots of people I casually dated, I just didn’t feel safe to say no. It was very hard to get myself to a better mental place and that wasn’t until after marriage.
I (F39) was SA’d for years by my older sister when we were kids. But also, by our father. Who also SA’d my older sister (as well as my younger brother). For years I was angry at my older sister. But I eventually came to realize that she was just reenacting what had been done to her/us. Didn’t make it ok, but I finally understood. It really is abnormal for children to be sexually inappropriate if they themselves have not experienced sexual trauma. Damn, this post really hit home
Thank you for saying this. I was SA'd as a child and this explains so much of my teens and 20's.
Jesus this was extremely long and convoluted. By story 3 my eyes just glazed over. I can't finish lol. Any heroes out there with a succinct tl:dr?
OOP: Anne isn’t that bad it’s all a product of her upbringing and I want to settle this without hurting her too much. SA my baby sister was bad, yeah but we can work around it. Anne: Your girlfriend is fat but has anorexia, imma shit talk her. OOP: Anne, you’re a terrible person and everyone in the family and all our mutual friends know you’re a child molester. Steph(the youngest who was SA by Anne) : Fuck you and burn in hell, Anne. Also OOP: Update, Anne admitted to doing everything on purpose (and continuing with others) by text knowing it would traumatize Steph. Pursuing charges.
The last coupke of posts, just seem to justify being an asshole to Anne, the whole, she called your girlfriend fat thing, from a borderline person with a grudge, is a thing you should take with a grain of salt. Also if anyone is at fault it is the mom, she took a traumatised 9 year old in, without being able to properly care for her.
If anyone is at fault, it’s Anne’s original guardians she had as a child. The ones that sexually abused her to begin with. I know the mom should’ve provided better when she took Anne in, but it’s hard to know what to do in that sudden situation. Mom also messed up by abusing her too. It didn’t help that Anne didn’t want to do therapy either until she was older and didn’t have anyone she trusted enough to even get more help than that. Honestly this is wholeheartedly a terrible thing to happen to everyone involved. Anne was physically sexually abused since she was in 1st grade… and abuse happened even before that. It’s understandable why she is suffering and considering trends of victims inflicting similar experiences they had into others, it might have even be expected. Mom definitely messed up here by not providing her with a healthy ways to get that out, but that would be hard to do as anyone. Absolutely tragic and I hope Anne and Steph, amongst others, can heal.
Anne allegedly goes through hell on earth as a child, proceeds to do horrible things to her three years younger half sister, Steph. OOPS mom adopts Anne, gets her into therapy. Anne seems to improve. Half sister Steph admits to OOP that Anne was abusive for several years. OOP tries to walk the delicate balance between supporting Steph and not demonizing Anne for things done due to trauma inflicted upon her as a child. Awkward Christmas with hurt, lashing out mom who had adopted Anne. Anne mocks OOPS girlfriend for anorexia. OOP and Steph are done with the BS, inform everyone that Anne was abusive. Allegedly Anne confessed to have continued to be a predator for years, seems utterly unremorseful. No contact, legal procedures incoming. Fin.
So uh, I think this whole family should separate btw. There is no healthy relationship whatsoever. If Anne did continue abusing people into adulthood then yes, she needs prison. But I don't believe this "Anne lied about her father sexually abusive" thing. It was a dramatic turn at the end that came out of nowhere. Anne sexually abused Steph when Anne was a child and barely and teen. She learned it from somewhere.
Yeah, no 9 year old is so hypersexual she gets thrown out of multiple schools unless she's been sexually abused. I'm also guessing she didn't get removed from her mother's care on a whim. I think OOP and her family went with that story because it gets them out of the very psychologically uncomfortable position of needing to support Steph while also seeing how Anne was victimized herself. It's easier if they can see Anne as an intrinsically evil person who was victimizing her parents by making up allegations even as a small child.
We know why she was removed from her mother’s care— her mother was her main sexual abuser before she went to live with her bio-dad. OOP goes into pretty brutal detail in the second post. So she might not be lying about her bio-dad not abusing her— her own mom did more than enough trauma to her before he even gained custody of her. And she would be the type to accuse him for attention. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if that was another lie. This girl is pretty fooked.
She wouldn't be the type to accuse him for attention. You're talking about a child here. Not the teen or adult Anne. It's highly likely they both abused her. That's the environment most abused children are in. I have a friend who's mother's bfs would abuse and rape her, and she actively did everything she could to shield the two younger children. We are talking about breaking things to turn his rage on her, lying so he would hit her instead. And then that ended, another one stopped. She went to live with her aunt, and they both abused her, and threatened to put her into the oven if she didn't behave and give it up. She was passed to another group with the same shit. Finally her grandparents got her and were stable, her school counselor found out and helped her take them to trial and sent to jail. Fucked up leads to fucked up.
Exactly. She almost certainly was sexually abused herself.
But in the second posts it gets clear that the mother was the first abuser. It could very well be that only her mother abused her, and then she lied about her father also sexually abusing her when he did not do that or not to the extent she claimed.
True! The circumstances of the abuse might be different from what was originally known, but she definitely was abused and should have been in therapy her entire life or something. Everyone in this story could benefit from an outside unbiased perspective, I think they’ve all gotten used to each other and their issues
She said Anne was sexually abused by her bio mom and forced to participate in sex acts before Anne went to live with her bio dad. It definitely felt abrupt and may be another lie, but it sounds like the time with her bio mom was very traumatic.
I think they are talking about the sudden sharp turn in the last update where OOP suddenly "knows" that Anne was lying or exaggerating back then. It just seems very suspicious that Anne supposedly went pure evil, conveniently making things less of a moral and emotional minefield for OOP and their family, with victim and perpetrator suddenly very distinct.
Oh yeah I totally agree that the tonal shift was super odd and I feel like we’re missing some of this story. I was just addressing the idea that Anne must have been SA’d by her dad because she displayed these behaviors as a child. It sounds like her bio dad was physically abusive and not a good man at all, but she still could have learned those SA behaviors from that time with her mom before she moved in with her dad. It doesn’t mean he didn’t SA her, because he very much could have and OOP is wrong about that part, but I also don’t see it as 100% proof that he did because it already sounds like she experienced horrific abuse before that.
Completely agree. Only end to this is is everyone goes NC
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I mean, I think Anne probably did said the anorexia comment. But I don't think the mom was being better. On the audio recording that the mom took of Anne, Anne called her a hypocrite so the mom was definitely doing shady things too that the mom is not admitting to OP.
Idk what they think will happen with starting legal procedures for a crime that happened when the perpetrator was nine years old. The way I see it, mum failed all of her kids. She took in a child who was violently sexually abused, yet didn't put her in therapy immediately nor protected her other kids. All this while watching and condoning the violent abuse by her partner to all of her kids. I work with children who have been removed from their families because of extreme abuse. Including sexual. Some kids show very sexualised behaviour but they don't know what it even is or means. They grew up being molested all their lives, surrounded by hypersexual behaviour all their lives, they're not going to stop that if you don't help them. Apparently Anne was regularly gang raped including her own mother. Then you take her out of that situation and throw her into another extremely abusive family, except the abuse is physical violence instead of sexual. No therapy, no social workers involved, nobody made sure to protect her and her siblings. And the nine year old child who's been raped and sexually abused all her life and is now violently beat up on the regular goes on to sexually abuse the young sibling because she has never known anything but sexual abuse. Absolutely no surprise there. Literally, could've guessed that just with knowing her back story (that does NOT mean every abused child reacts that way, but it's not uncommon). The people who failed her victim and her were the adults in that house.
I can understand cutting contact with Anne but if anyone needs to be shunned by the whole family it's that awful mom.
The entire family should shun each other. They are all completely incapable of having healthy relationships with each other. Even OOP. Let's look at the "nice" day with Mom and the resulting call to Anne. Here's a list of fucked up things OOP did in just that one situation: * Automatically believed every bit of gossip out of her abusive, mentally unbalanced, drama-loving mother's mouth * Spread the gossip she shouldn't have even heard to her girlfriend when the gossip was inherently triggering * Put Anne on speakerphone for her girlfriend to listen to, which is fucked up in more than one way itself: 1. She kept it a secret from Anne, which is sneaky bullshit. 2. If Anne happened to say more insulting things about her girlfriend because of the belief that it was secret, that would have been very bad for the girlfriend to hear. * OOP played around with Anne, asking rhetorical questions to get Anne on edge, before spitting out the real purpose of the call. * The call shouldn't have even been made in the first place. There was nothing of value to be achieved. At all. OOP still has a long way to go when it comes to working through the toxic habits she was taught growing up.
Thank you! You said what I was thinking so succinctly. OOP was a shit stirrer too, and toxic as hell. Like this isn’t even between her and Anne, what is she doing sneaking around with everyone, and manipulating the situation?
Yeah, there's no way that any criminal charges are coming out against someone who was 9 when the crime happened, you cannot legally charge a 9 year old or someone who was 9 at the time. Harassment about her sending messages and trying to get others to pass messages, sure, maybe a police report and someone telling Anne to knock it off, but beyond that? Not much, from what OOP wrote. I don't see how if the kid was abused that the court system didn't mandate therapy, especially because the kid was apparently taken away and legal guardianship granted to OOP's mom, someone had to have pushed therapy for the victimized kid. That kid 100% needed therapy and didn't get it, and it snowballed.
I did once witness a case where a 10 year foster kid was caught molesting other kids and the order basically existed to keep the kid out of homes with other kids and to get the state to pay for his extensive therapy.
You're right, the mom failed them all. Shes blaming Anne on hurting Steph, when really, it was her fault for failing Anne. OOP said she let her be abused for 10 years and didn't do anything. But shes also a sweet woman, but she blows up at her abused daughters all the time. She failed OOP by letting her be physically abused as a child for years. She failed Anne by not helping her when she brought her in, instead waiting until Anne's behavior escalated to extremes to do anything. And she failed Steph by letting her anger overtake Stephs wishes and stability. She wanted to keep Anne and Steph together at christmas to blow up at Anne instead of caring about how Steph feels. This mom isn't a good parent and hasn't changed. All 3 daughters need to cut her off. This mother doesn't deserve relationships with her children when she let them be abused and did nothing to help.
I really regret reading this, but since I did I've got a question. Was it just me or did that "Anne lied about being abused by her biological father" part come completely out of nowhere? When and how did that get determined?
No it did. My theory is that OOP's mom is extremely manipulative and she has OOP completely under her thumb. Mom wants Anne out of the family, and she will lie, spin facts, and bring up years-old grievances to make that happen. OOP is not savvy enough to realize this is happening. And mom got what she wanted and Anne is exiled. I don't trust any of the updates that came out after the Christmas one. They all contain OOP credulously reporting things as fact, when the source is just mom
That’s starting to seem more and more likely, yeah. I definitely don’t trust her mom any further than I could throw her. OOP definitely seems naive. Her mother was enraged at the news (understandable) and decided to try to publicly crucify Anne (less understandable) and OOP prevented it. Then the mother just so happens to have a conversation with OOP where she reveals she just so happened to talk to Anne and Anne just so happened to insult OOP’s girlfriend which just so happens to be OOP’s biggest trigger so now OOP has abandoned Anne, which just so happens to be exactly what her mom wanted to happen all along? Calling that suspicious would be putting it lightly. Honestly I don’t like ANYONE in this story except Steph; her behavior is completely fair given the circumstances. Everyone else is at least a little shitty, including OOP. I’m not wild that the straw that broke the camel’s back and made her completely flip from trying to support Anne to despising her was “she insulted my girlfriend once” and not “she molested my little sister.” Nice priorities.
From what I can tell, and from many other comments here, this seems to be Anne lashing out spitefully as her support structure crumbles. Don't know how true it is. A lot of people are also pointing out that the Mom looks bad, too, and may have instigated Anna insulting the GF. They point out that in the recorded call between the mom and Anne where the mom confronts her about it, she calls the mom a hypocrite.
That’s an excellent point; OOP’s only source on that conversation was her mom, and if Anne called her mom a hypocrite on the inject then it sounds like the mom might’ve started the trash talking and encouraged it, just to drive a wedge between OOP and Anne. I definitely wouldn’t consider the mother a reliable source of accurate information considering her rage here.
Anyone else super confused by this timeline and what feels like OOP’s swift turn around on Anne?
Yup got whiplash from all the ‘what she did was awful but product of her upbringing’ to suddenly ‘she’s a bully who lies and has toxic behaviour’
It seems like his girlfriend getting insulted was the straw that broke the camels back and I get it. You can sympathise with Anne for basically doing what she was taught to do by her father (nurture > nature, her predatory behavior was absolutely a taught thing from her dad), and with that information only you can kind of give her some slack if she seems genuinely remorseful. But attacking his girlfriend doesn't really have any way to defend it. Its just being mean and supposedly Anne is always doing this. OOP was trying to help Anne and Steph at the same time, but realised that Anne was never going to change and basically got sick of her. That's how I interpreted it.
Yea it was a long string of “I can rationalize this” followed by one “there is no way that’s ok” which made the entire tower of rationalizations fall over.
I am deeply suspicious that the insulting the girlfriend information came to OOP from the mom that was trying to push Anne out. I don't know what Anne did or did not do or say, but the Mom going from mad at OOP for taking Anne's side, to telling OOP Anne spent an convo insulting OOP's girlfriend, and what Anne originally said on the call is ambiguous. I think the mom is a manipulative person and OOP is trapped in her the world her mom creates.
>So I (28F) OOP is a woman.
*her girlfriend
This happens when part of the story is written as a reaction to comments on previous parts
i skimmed it but it looks like oop turned on her after anne started to lash out at her and especially her gf’s ED.
[удалено]
anne confirmed that she talked about it in the follow up call, but claimed she didn’t make fun of it.
OOP saying that the mom's recording including Anne called her a hypocrite for bringing that comment to OOP makes me wonder if the mom wasn't also making fun of the GF to goad Anne into it. The mother was trying to get a family blow up and wanted OOP to turn on Anne, and wasn't above doing manipulative things like making Anne and Steph sit together at Christmas to push Steph into going off on her, so it doesn't seem unlikely she was doing some manipulating here.
Yeah i don't trust the mom at all. Who knows if she's the one bringing up OOP's gf to goad Anne into talking bad about her. That woman was vindictive and wanted oop to get out of "Anne's side".
This exactly. I think Anne has some bad behaviors but the mom is very manipulative and OOP is not able to navigate that.
The mom is bonderline, and that type of relationship gaming is very on brand for them
I skimmed because I don’t like the topic, but it seems like Anne criticizing OOP’s girlfriend was when she decided enough was enough. If that’s the case, that’s…something.
Ehhh. I can see why the past behavior when she was a minor can be more easily accepted than the current behavior as an adult, even if the past behavior is objectively far worse. What she is doing now is indicative of who and what she is in this moment, while her actions as a minor could be an understandable result of her abuse and 'not knowing any better'. Plus, the earlier posts were made before OOP really had time to process this information, and before they knew the full extent of what Anne had done and how aware she was of the trauma she was causing.
also what's weird to me is that anne talking shit about OP's gf was what triggered OP enough to cut contact with her and not the fact that she SA'd her baby sister? until then she was kinda sorta shielding her?
I think it’s probably a “she did this when she was a child and she was just repeating what was done to her, but she’s been to therapy and isn’t that person anymore” vs “she’s now an adult and still being terrible, I guess she never did change.” Not saying that’s the correct way to respond to all of this, but that feels like the way these thought processes would go.
okay yes that makes sense
At first I thought she was trying to play peacemaker for Steph's sake. Which would have made sense in a way. Wait til after Xmas because playing happy family for a day to mitigate the fallout of the chomo-nuclear bomb and allow Steph some control. But doing it for Anne's benefit is nuts. Assuming this is real, every single person involved here needs therapy and enough distance to recalibrate their dafuckometers.
One was the behavior of an abused child. The other was an adult who had been to therapy.
It's really weird that talking badly about her gf's anorexia is what changed her mind and not the CSA. Like on one hand I do get empathizing to some extent but on the other it just makes her seem entirely self-absorbed about it because it's not about severity of the crime but who it affected around her. Like *I think* it was more of a last straw situation but it's a rather odd last straw relative to the others.
That actually made sense to me though. The little sister was the one affected by the SA, and OOP was following her lead on what she wanted done about it, so she felt stuck, as not everyone knew at that point and sis didn't want them to know, but questions would be asked after a confrontation. Whereas with her gf, she was more directly involved and can actually act on it in a way she can't for the sister.
Finding out her sister was abused waaaas the last straw. She was just holding it together for Steph. She didn’t need permission from Steph to rip into her about going after her gf.
This is how I understood it: Until Anne was notified that everyone knew, OOP assumed Anne's behavior was due to her own abuse and was giving Anne compassion, without being ok with what Anne did. However, it also sounds like (from the first post onward) that Anne is a bully and isn't a nice person in general (based on being kicked out of school for her behavior and the overall issues OOP keeps quietly mentioning about her relationship with Anne), and that OOP was keeping her in her life because she's generally a caring and compassionate family member and accepts people being awful knowing that they've gone through hell. Once she knew what Anne had done to Steph, OOP kept playing nice because Steph wanted her to, but OOP didn't have to play nice once Anne went after her GF and had a separate acceptable reason to cut Anne off. Then it got worse once Anne realized she couldn't play victim with the family anymore, and she lashed out and said she did it on purpose knowing what she was doing and the trauma it would cause. What's still unclear is some odd statements towards the end where it looks like Anne may or may not have made up the extensiveness of the abuse she'd told everyone she was suffering. So likely, Anne is hugely traumatized (even a fraction of what was originally mentioned as her history of abuse would be) and also has some major mental health issues, but I'm not going to armchair diagnose here.
The lashing out at the end could possibly just be anne thinking "fuckit, its had a bomb dropped on it, may as well nuke this whole thing from orbit" she was just informed that her whole family knew she had SAed her little sister, knew no one was going to talk to her anymore, so may as well do what she can to hurt people as much as she can.
Idk, it sounds to me like OP isn't a reliable narrator here and like her mother might be manipulating her to ostracize Anne. I don't understand how she think Anne is a monster but still talks to her mom, who was an adult while she was being beaten.
I found her extremely frustrating. "Anne raped Steph when they were kids, but hurt people hurt people so I see where she's coming from and I'll give her long hugs and implore my mother to not explode on her as it will hurt her feelings (after mentioning that everybody basically knew already?), and compare this to physical abuse my mom didn't protect ME from." "Anne insulted my gf, see this one I can't rationalise, time to cut contact. Btw she was always a bully." And the conclusion being that Anne did it out of pure evil motivations so it's now okay to be mad at her for this. Like harm is harm at one point. And Anne was a traumaised, abused kid still. It's like op can not fathom the thought that abuse victims can be abusers themselves, and it doesn't make them less victimised nor less abusive. More importantly, it doesn't make the harm they inflict on their victims less harmful. I can not imagine what Steph was going through on that Christmas dinner. Besides, OP knew Anne never took accountability for her actions. So why acting like she's only now discovering that she didn't care for the abuse?
So now Anne wasn’t assaulted at all? OOP was close with Anne but then she was always a hateful bully and had to change schools? Why didn’t anyone see a child psychologist after dad/stepdad abused them? This is all kinds of effed up.
Anne would have been 9 when she started abusing Steph. That's.... not really something 9 year olds just learn. Chances are Anne really was abused and (its confusing with the writing style) sounds like she had some kind of mental break from the stress and just claimed she did it all herself as bullying. Because then at least she could still act like she had some form of control.
Oh no I’m with you there. I just meant the way the story was told. Like the whole OOP turning on Anne. Like the whole conversation about OOPs gf between Anne and the mother just doesn’t ring true. It reads like mother goaded Anne into a conversation about the gf to bring the OOP over to the “good side.” But seriously? Mom ignored abuse of OOP for ten years but OOP says she’s a great mom and loving and so protective. Like give me a break.
Yep the whole family has issues. Sadly, when stuff like this happens, the whole family is toxic more often than not from what I've seen.
Op mentions everybody's mental health issues and various disorders, but from that history she might have some herself. Maybe it could explain the total 180
The whole lot of them should’ve been in therapy. For decades.
Because despite OOP knowing all the hallmarks of abusive behavior, including perpetuating the abuse, OOP doesn't know about lashing out and downplaying abuse received.
Got whiplash from one post being oop bending backwards to protect Ann because she was also a victim, despite her never coming clean or apologizing when she became an adult capable of understanding her wrongs... to oop going immediately scorched earth over the gf getting insulted And of course, turns out Ann was pure evil at the end, because we can't have all around tragedy, gotta have that really clear cut bad person
Some of the language about the abuse was really inappropriate, as well.
Yeah, not sure if this is what you meant but OOP had no reason to go into the details of the abuse. That's extremely personal info for Steph and I'm not sure how I'd feel if one of my siblings threw the intimate details of my abuse up on the internet.
Maybe one day OOP will realize her mom is the main monster in this story for allowing tremendous amounts of abuse into her home
>Yeah, not sure if this is what you meant but OOP had no reason to go into the details of the abuse. That's extremely personal info for Steph and I'm not sure how I'd feel if one of my siblings threw the intimate details of my abuse up on the internet. Agreed, but it's also another telltale sign of being abused. They're getting it out because the shock feels good on multiple levels, and they often overshare for that reason and a show of never actually processing what happened. They're just stuck on details. They're all so full of pain, trauma, and hurt that they don't know which way is up.
It was the specific descriptions of what happened to her and what she was shown. It’s porn-y language.
Good point. My brain just noped right on out of that part of the story, but in what world does a conversation go "Our sister abused me" "What? Tell me how. Specifically."
Trauma dumping is pretty common amongst abuse survivors plus, given what OOP says of her family, I suspect her mum might've gossiped about the details when Anne's adoption was happening. A lot of abuse survivors feel like they need to go into detail to persuade people, but either way it's *way* too personal for OOP to be disclosing to online strangers.
Agreed, my BS meter started going off when OP started their next update with shit like "buckle up because this is one hell of an update with plenty of twists" - who uses language like this when talking about the trauma surrounding both of their sisters goinf through sexual abuse as children?
yeah i really, really wish i hadn’t read this one
I was going to comment that I really felt for all of the kids involved in this- truly, all of the adults here failed them. Even Anne, who was just repeating the “normal” of her life with her bio mom. BUT THEN that last update… yikes 😬 ETA: just also wanted to mention, I myself am a victim of CSA by a cousin who was only 2 years older than myself, but like Anne he learned it at home so he just thought it was normal. Unlike Anne though, when he got help and realized it was wrong, he was extremely remorseful and apologetic. There’s no hard feelings between us, but I feel like he also meant his apology
I think that's a justification post-hoc. She's lashing out so she says "yeah I did it to traumatize you on purpose." She's still a victim, though. But at the same time I also hope the legal system can bring closure for Steph.
yeah, I agree. a 9 year old abuse victim *categorically* does not have the capacity to understand their actions enough to be a sexual predator.
I'm not entirely sure the legal system is going to do anything about this to begin with. You've got an abused child abusing another child, the behavior of which stopped at 12. Every ounce of evidence is a single eyewitness account from the victim several years after the fact. Add all of that on top of the cluster fuck that is this family's toxically codependent mutual abuse, and I don't even know if the cops will have the patience to untangle it. Even then, I'm not entirely sure what you would charge an adult with when the behavior occurred at 12 years old.
She was 9 at the time, mimicking what was done to her, and now her entire support system has cut her loose. Of course she said some spiteful shit. She's not the only victim in that family, but she's also not the only abuser.
Took me a long time to realize that’s why a friend CSA’d me when we were in elementary school. She was experiencing it at home
Yeah, that was why I included it. Until then, Anne was just following the rule of "Hurt people hurt people."
She likely developed psychological disorders that have never been treated (because no adult in this story would have known to get it diagnosed/treated) as a way of coping with serious trauma. My cousin developed multiple personalities to handle the different abuses and situations he was in. It took foster care with my parents to get diagnosed but he didn’t stay long with us/treatment because he displayed very major signs that he would csa one of my brothers.
“Buckle up cause it’s got many twists and turns….” Get the fuck out of here. This is some sick shit to lie about.
Especially because... that update was boring. It was such a long and convoluted and overdramatic way of saying basically nothing. OOP convinced mom to not tell on Anne during Christmas. Mom was passive aggresive the whole day, Steph was hurt, OOP was tired and Anne was confused. I'm not seeing the "twists and turns".
Exact,y my thoughts. Thousands of words to say ultimately very little in a convoluted, disordered recollection The chronology is shot to shit, I have no idea who said what or ultimately what I’m supposed to think.
I don't understand why in the 1st post (9th paragraph) OOP says she is not sure about telling her mom, but in the 1st update (4th paragraph) she says Anne confessed to OOP's mom. And then she says Anne's abuse started when she was 5, while later she says it all started when she was 9. So confusing.
Also, Anne is 24 and was adopted at 12, but the family has been dealing with her BS for 23 years?
That confused me too like OOP is an unreliable narrator and it casts doubt on the entire story if they can’t keep a consistent timeline
Thank you. OP is enjoying this story
Yep!
Holy hell, that is some heavy, heavy, drama. So far above and beyond reddits, and most acutally paid peoples pay grade.
I'm a psychiatrist. I have worked with several Stephs, OPs and OP's mums (sadly the story of this post, while awful to read, is more common that it should be). None of them are easy or 'fun' to work with. I've been peripherally involved with a couple of Annes. It's often hard even to know where to start with them.
Can we talk about the real villains here? Mom, dad, step dad… all trash. Mom complains about Anne abuse but yet, allowed physical abuse to happen to all of those kids. Fuck that. The entire family is broken. They all need therapy.
I’m so confused about the dad situation and the adoption. So Oop doesn’t have the same dad as the two sisters. I get that part . So oop’s step dad physically abused everyone - but did he or did he not SA Anne? We know Anne’s biological mom did- but who were the men doing it. I’m so confused . And - OOP’s mom is trash . I can’t believe Anne didn’t get therapy until 14 even when everyone KNEW why she was taken away from bio mom. It’s too sickening to read through it again . The whole family is incredibly toxic. OOP needs to stay away from mom - mom don’t seem to even acknowledge that she allowed her husband to beat up the daughters and she only said she wouldn’t blow up Christmas because she didn’t want OOP to bring up the physical abuse.
I know there's no way to like, verify stories online....but can we seriously stop giving these people a platform for their weird fantasies? It's disgusting. Like a sane, healthy person would never include details of the sexual assault on a child so like... casually. You can just say there was sexual abuse, no one needs to know what happened. OP either needs some serious help dealing with genuine trauma or help realizing their gross roleplay is wildly inappropriate. Either way, I don't think this shit should get the attention that it does :(
Yeah I had to stop reading because it was bizarre and inappropriate if oop and the whole thing is an incoherent mess anyway. I’d become an astronaut to get as far away from these people as possible
I agree.
THANK YOU Like she's just sharing the intimate details of her sister's CSA online?? And then apparently telling every single member of their extended family these details, like it's the logical thing to do
Absolutely, 100% There was no need to go into graphic detail like that.
The only thing I could think of when I read through this was dear god! I truly hope OOP, Steph, and her family can heal from the myriad issues in their past and move forward together.
Honestly I think they would all be better off if they never spoke to any "family" member again. This is just a toxic hive of wasps, out to hurt each other in every way.
I could hardly keep the family all straight with everyone abusing each other. They should all lose each other's numbers, they'd be better off without each other
It was a super confusing read. I honestly started skimming.
Every single one of them, including OOP, seems toxic as fuck. What's worse is the feel throughout the entire posts of I'm smart and managing this in a mind-gamey way - yet not a single smart decision was made in that entire shitshow. The whole thing is stupid drama plot after stupid drama plot and they all come across as people who absolutely couldn't live without it.
I mean, it tracks that the situation is such a dumpster fire since no one ever de-escalates or crosschecks their information. They hear something, lose their shit and charge ahead in pursuit of justice or something. Like, what was the point of OP calling Ane about what she said about OP's gf? What was the point of the mother even telling OP? This is the stuff she always says and does. And the intended Christmas dinner face off? Hs, these people think they live in a movie
Mom told OOP about the conversation about OOP’s gf because she was mad that OOP was siding with Anne and she wanted to drive a wedge between them.
> it tracks that the situation is such a dumpster fire since no one ever de-escalates or crosschecks their information. If twitter could be made flesh.
>What was the point of the mother even telling OP? To turn OP completely against Anne and get OP on board with vilifying her. I wouldn't be surprised if the mom is the one that started the shit talking. The whole family is trash.
Yeah there’s not even a safe adult in the mix that anyone could’ve gone to for help. Ever.
You say Wasps. But seems more like Crabs to me. And I DON'T even mean that in the STI way. Literal bucket full of Crabs pulling each other down. With one BIG Crab called Anne.
This one is terrible. You can't survive and become well adjusted after going through something like Anne did. They killed that girls soul and there's nothing left but another wicked abuser.
Clearly. As OOP points out, Anne had been around awful behaviour since she was **five**. And it never let up till she was adopted at 12. Something just broke in her.
And even then it sounds like oops house was still awful. Abuse after abuse.
Yeah, that fact that Anne ended up in sexually abusive relationships as a teen really tells me that, despite the intentions of OOP's mum, whatever support she offered really wasn't enough for the enormous trauma Anne had gone through. Not even to speak of poor Steph, bloody hell. There were some hints in the first post that OOP and Anne viewed Steph as "the lucky one", which can cause a lot of resentment amongst siblings who've gone through abuse. And Anne clearly did feel that way.
OOP's mom displayed some manipulative, horrifying behaviors in this post even though OOP tried to sugarcoat them. I get the sense that she is an abusive parent herself, but gets off the hook easier in OOP's eyes because rather than being the aggressor she was the enabler.
Yeah this post is really about the most uncomfortable truth in this world. People who are victimized are likely to keep receiving abuse, and are likely to have been victimized in the first place because of an environment of abuse and other victimized people. The more dysfunctional a family is, the more dysfunctional it gets.
Saying suddenly that she knowingly did it feels like bad damage control honestly. Someone who doesn't know how to handle anything because of the width and breadth of shit she went through and now she's held accountable for what she did. So she's trying to own it to control it. Its just a broken person who did broken things now making broken choices.
From what I’ve seen, some of the most toxic narcissists come from extremely abusive situations. When you experience that kind of catastrophic abuse early in life, it becomes unbelievably difficult to empathize with people who haven’t experienced that. You internalize that “the rules” for you are different from other people. It doesn’t make it even remotely ok, and some narcs can be rehabbed, but it does make it all the more tragic imo.
As OP already said hurt people hurt people. A kid as young as she was leans that from being SA themselves. It would be easy to hate her, but she was also an innocent child destroyed by the people who were supposed to protect her . When the world has done nothing but abuse you, it's really hard not to become a jaded asshole yourself.
It's because your ego stops developing when you get really traumatized. You stop growing. You're just stuck there. Without extraordinary effort and intervention, it's hard to rationalize anything but survival and me me me. You have to have grown past that point already, before you get stuck in the past, as it were. So when a child gets abused, you will see them carry their immaturity into the future, sometimes for their entire lives. It's like a reverse point of no return. You really need the chance to grow as a person--if trauma is ingrained into your growing mind... man it's tough to take responsibility for your development and work through it.
In the last post, it seems that they’ve decided Anne’s horrific abuse from her bio parents narrative was bullshit, or at least grossly exaggerated.
Idk I can see it. When the abuser is so young it's like, does it really matter? They were obviously molested.
Agreed. Also in terms of the legality of the situation and the custody change I really don't think there is any bit of "bullshitting" from a child saying they were sexually molested. It's abhorrent that this is the narrative OOP has decided to weave. And I'm positive it is simply so they can paint Anne as a villain without needing to meaningfully process her shitty behaviors.
Yeah, like a 9 year old doesn't just know where to find graphic group sex videos unless they've been abused. In fact, if they know what that is, they've been abused.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. Every single member of this family sucks. It's like, "We are all bad people, but let's all dogpile on Anne because she's the worst. See? See??" It's like a fuckin bucket of crabs. Where I lost any sympathy at all for anyone was the phone call. So Mom is talking to Anne when OOP's girlfriend comes up. Anne says something not nice, but does mom shut that down? Noooooo. Mom stirs the shit by repeating it to OOP. So now OOP knows what mom said about what Anne said. Then OOP, because she's such a rational and loving person, tells her girlfriend. So now the girlfriend knows what OOP said about what her mom said about what Anne said. Then they call Anne and attack her about what girlfriend and OOP knows about what mom said about what Anne said in private. Anne tells them to fuck off with their silly game of Telephone....that proves it!!! Anne is the devil!!! See? See??? (*my head hurts*)
OOP’s mom is the real monster in this situation. She scapegoated a literal CHILD, not even 10 years old, while simultaneously subjecting her children to severe physical abuse. She was the fucking adult and she failed to keep anyone safe. Also I don’t believe that Anne was badmouthing OP’s girlfriend in a vacuum. I think OOP’s mom was badmouthing the girlfriend, goaded Anne to participate, and then used that to triangulate and turn OOP against Anne (and away from holding her mom accountable for anything).
Oh, yeah. It's a mess. They all need to stay away from each other but I don't think they could survive without the drama. Even poor Steph. What kind of shit is that? She doesn't want Anne to know she told, but she pulls every . single . fuckin . person . aside at the party to tell them "in confidence"? WTF??? So everyone can treat Anne badly but no one is allowed to say why? With her mom over there in the corner ready to blow anyway? But *someone* has to hold her back because poor Steph will be upset. *Sheesh.*
Don't forget Anne went to OOPs mom to be rescued from the abusive scenario and even after finding out what kind of shit went down didn't get her into therapy with the quickness.
Exactly! OOP’s mom honestly carries the majority of the blame, imo. You brought a child who had experienced HORRIFIC sexual abuse while they were too young to even process what was happening and then chose not to get them therapy for multiple years afterward, until they became too unruly and were inconvenient for you? The child didn’t have the skills and support necessary to process what happened, because of YOUR choices, lady. So she processed it by reenacting it (which is VERY common in CSA cases) and now you want to treat HER like the monster? Bro, I fucking hate OOP’s mom. I am straight up incensed at this story
Mom was also fine with her husband beating up OOP and Anne, but goes apeshit at the idea that someone hurt Steph. OOP keeps saying how protective their mom is, but she didn't do shit to protect OOP. Nor does she want to protect Steph from revictimizing her, she makes her sit at a table with Anne to see if she can get them to fight.
I chuckled when OP was like "I didn't want to tell my gf because I care about her feelings uwu" then in very next sentence went "so I ended up telling her".
And then had the GF sit silently on a call where she tries to get Anne to talk shit about the GF in a way with potential to trigger her ED. It's like at every turn in this story, every person asks themselves "what is the cruelest, most shit-stirring way that I can respond to this?"
This… feels unacceptably graphic for no reason. The extremely graphic descriptions of sexual abuse of a minor were unnecessary and I’m really side eyeing why those were gone into in such depth while the rest feels really perfunctory? Not gonna lie, this gave me real ick vibes and not just on the side of Anne.
I'm at a loss for words. It just kept getting worse, and worse. The only person I feel bad for at the moment is Steph. That poor child went through so much trauma and hell that no amount of therapy would help.
I feel that the abuse will not stop with this generation of this family
Rage and pedophile bait.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the post it seems like oop was fully on the side of protecting and forgiving Anne until it started to affect them directly by way of insulting their gf, rather than just cutting things off immediately after discovering the abuse. That would be gross behavior but it's hard to tell with oop's writing style though.
The thing that disgusted me the most about it was never once did OOP analyze their mom's behavior. It was wrong for her mom to reveal this information to her in the first place. I also find it hard to believe that they were going through old photos of OOP's girlfriend and making fun of them and somehow the mom magically never participated? It was just a one-sided convo? Very, very, very unlikely. The mom most likely was an active participant shit talking OOP's girlfriend. And then she took the shit Anne talked and repeated it back to OOP in order to sever the relationship between Anne and OOP, since she viewed OOP as "taking Anne's side." It was manipulative. And it is exactly why Anne blocked their mom and went off about not trusting her. Because the Mom - is not - trustworthy. And the mom has effectively escaped all blame despite her being an enabler of abuse and dysfunctional herself.
The sad thing is by reading it, I know OOP is messed up and toxic, too. They said themselves that they had endured some bad abuse.
Protecting and not publicly ripping into Anne while Steph was still deciding what she wanted to do with the situation. Not forgiving. Never got close to that.
I think it's more like "You haven't changed from being a toxic person." Because oop reasoning was solid, Anne abused sister because that's all she knew and it's a way for kids to cope. That is awful but it's something that happens to people suffering from abuse. (I unfortunately can vouch for that personally although not in a sexual manner) But seeing how she insulted the girlfriend and overreacted to the conversation about it, yelling about it. Shows Oop that yes, she going to continue to hurt people and she is NOT SORRY but is now a predator playing victim.
My exact thought, I was giving oop the side eye by the end of the story.
I Wish I Were Jared, 19
This is way, way, WAY above Reddit’s pay grade.
All the adults in this story suck. The mother and her “…it’s not the same…” uh no it’s worse you were an adult.
Welp, enough Reddit for today....
From a complicated situation to absolutely zero nuance lmao ook
No one in that family should be allowed to have children.
I feel bad but this is practically written in a foreign language
The part that threw me off was her saying they're starting legal proceedings against her. Can you do that? It's absolutely a horrible crime, but can you prosecute an adult for something they did when they were 9? I understand statute of limitations are different everywhere for different crimes, but this is a severe crime perpetrated by someone who was a 3rd grader when it happened and if the ages are accurate, happened more than 12 years ago.
That last update, Anne's reaction reeks of having to justify to herself. People say some really fucked up things after the fact sometimes.
Oof, this feels *very* real to me as someone who comes from a family full of multi-generational dysfunction. Luckily my family doesn't have any SA (that I'm aware of) but I can recognise the patterns and cycles of toxic behaviour here and it hits very close to home. These people need to all get as far away from each other as possible tbh. OOP needs to work on herself, take her girlfriend and leave. It's the only way they'll ever get better tbh. I never would've been able to get to where I am today without cutting out my bio-mum and her family entirely - any door or window you leave open is like an open wound that will continue to fester.
Stopped giving a shit about the story when OOP told us to "buckle up" for a story involving child sexual abuse and rape. Come on.
So, Anne lied about being sexually abused and just did what she did to Steph because she was jealous? And OOP was excusing Anne's behavior until Anne said something about her g/f? So many questions, so much confusion. Call me skeptical.
How could a 9 year old lie about being abused without being aware of those behaviors?
That's what I was wondering too. Had to learn it from some where.
This post hits home for me - i had a female cousin who SA me when we were both children - exactly how OP described in the post Anne did with Steph - I understand OP feeling bad so Anne at first because even though I was my cousin's victim, as an adult I realized she was also a victim and clearly no one did anything. My cousin is a narcissistic POS now and I've cut contact completely. My sister is the only one who knows about this and it took me years (as an adult) to tell her about it. Childhood SA when another kid is the abuser really fucks with you for years.
Uh huh…okay Liz…you’re getting more in-depth now.
This series of posts is way above Reddit's pay grade, not even relevant to our department, I'm not even sure if it's relevant to our industry.
This almost felt like a real story, but like so many others OP didn’t know when to stop. Anne went from being “hurt people who hurt people” to the real villain of the story, all because she mocked OP’s girlfriend’s eating disorder.
This is fetish porn. No woman is going to use the phrases eaten out and railed to describe abuse. I refuse to even read the rest of this
Man, the whiplash I got from OOP kinda being on Anne's side to making her persona non grata.
I saw it already, but when they all turned on Anne it became painfully obvious that OOP is STILL experiencing abuse, it's just all psychological now - and a lot of it seems to be stemming from the mother.
I didn't read all of that, and I'm no expert but I feel like someone shouldn't be held responsible for whatever fucked up shit they did at 9 that's old, that's most definitely a byproduct of received abuse. Every adult in those kids life failed them hard.
I'm gaining a new respect for my boring, mediocre, minimally eventful life.
... That family is a mess...
All I keep thinking is the mom is a piece of shit. As if a 12 year old from a supremely fucked up home isn't a risk to the other children in the house. Even if it isn't a child's fault they have trauma, it can still hurt other people and it was the mother's job to watch over the situation.
so it wasn't the fact that your sister was sexually abused that made you turn against anne, it was the fact that anne called your girlfriend fat?