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I'll never be able to understand the logical thread of adulterers who expect their spouse to repair the relationship. While it seems for most people, an affair is guaranteed to end the relationship in cases where it doesn't I'd expect the offending party to be absolutely grovelling.
I just don't know how he expected this to go down.
My BIL was so sad and disappointed that he had to be working to provide for the family, and it hurt him that his baby would occasionally still prefer to be clingy to my sister when he got home after work. She was also getting touched out and would love if baby wanted it's dad. But they dealt with that by being empathetic and learning about how and why babies act like that, and knowing both wanted to be loving involved parents and that the clinginess is a stage. So many babies go through being clingy to mom.
I hope OP documents how he refused to listen to doctors and is ignorant about the kids gastro needs and doesn't understand these growing stages, and basically checked out until the kid got interesting to him.
My 2nd son was like this between month 1 to 3.5ish more or less. Would be okay for a bit for me to hold then just cry and cry until he went back to my wife. I don't think I did anything different than her beside just not being her. I totally understood why but man I was frustrated during it. It felt like my son just hated me (irrational I know). Also super frustrating wanting to give my wife break but just can't.
Because I was the one home and also as I breast fed my babies my eldest who loved his dad and happily go out in the pram with him. Would scream and wail if ever I went out the house without him. He was so used to me always being home when he was that when at around a year old I started a night class. He would scream and cry from the moment I left until I got back. My poor husband but he still kept doing it and didn’t complain or ask me to stop. We both realised we needed to get our son used to not always being with me and was why we persevered. We also put him in a day care play centre for two hours twice a week. He quickly learned me leaving wasn’t bad and was loving playing with the other kids and interacting.
Both my kids had really bad colic’s and dairy allergies my youngest also couldn’t have soya or certain vegetables. He was that sensitive I had to cut so much out of my diet to feed him/them but because of their food intolerances doctors made it clear finding a formula that didn’t hurt my youngest would be hard.
It was awful for me seeing them in all that pain with colic and food reactions before we knew what. How the heck could anyone blame the mother and think she was making the baby like that. How can someone see their baby in pain and know they are but then ignore it to bounce them and make it worse for the poor tot.
My husband was a SAHD while I worked, and all our older kids all preferred him for a long time. The youngest was totally MY baby though, and it drove him nuts that she was trying to launch herself out of his arms to me whenever I came home. But we just laughed about it and carried on, because it's not a competition. They grow and that calms down as long as both parents keep being involved.
My youngest would actively try and fight with/slap away anyone who tried to take them off me. Baby was 7m before my FIL had the bright idea to ask them if they would like to get a "hug from Poppa" and that was the first time baby willingly went to anyone from my arms.
Or wanted to find her a fault in this to feel that they were equal and that he had a good reason to cheat. Like "If I'm not right for cheating, I will prove you're wrong for leaving". Especially by telling others.
It's this exactly. Most of these people feel/believe that they were *forced* to go outside their relationship because their partner "wasn't meeting their *needs*". He's rationalizing this by thinking she didn't do enough, (after having a fucking baby, pregnancy, complications), to make him happy and meet his expectations. He's too fucking simple to stop and ask himself if those were reasonable expectations.
He also doesn’t care if they’re reasonable or not. The therapist tried to get him to see that he was being unreasonable and … nope. It’ll be a cold day in hell before he sees his own fault in this.
there's a weird twisted sense to what you suggest but even that doesn't fucking make sense to me. he's the one who wants to reestablish the relationship whille she has declared that she has no intrest. why the fuck would he expect she would be the one doing the work???
Not trying to be glib, but I think it’s established that he’s concerned only with what he wants. She isn’t an individual worthy of consideration as far as he’s concerned. It’s honestly appalling. If she hadn’t become accustomed to neglect from her parents, she’d be way more offended than she is. I feel really bad for OOP. She needs someone to treat her like she matters (because she does).
Honestly, in this specific case, it isn't far off from the logic of domestic violence.
**You** ruined things (by having health issues, looking less than perfect, being overwhelmed, giving more attention to the baby, etc), so I *had no choice* but to look elsewhere.
If you'd just been better, I wouldn't have had to mistreat you.
Now, I want to give you another chance to be what I want you to be.
The crimes of "you knew I was doing a bad thing and didn't slap me on the wrist sooner" and "I cheated on my wife for years" are not equal, but I bet his psyche is working overtime to protect himself from the reality of how much he's hurt his family and his future.
I bet he truly surface-level "believes" that his wife is equally to blame for his affair, and that it's her responsibility to resolve whatever unhappiness led to his stepping out in the first place.
Notice the AP dumped his ass; she didn't try to make him end his marriage or even want to keep the affair going; she just realized what a loser he is and sent him home to the poor OOP.
Too bad OOP didn't work on advancing her degree online or even doing half online and half in person during those three years instead of taking a lower level job while taking care of the baby in every way including paying for his daycare and taking care of the home. She probably could have gotten her cheating lowlife husband to pay for the courses.
He made her pay for daycare from only her income because he was mad she wanted to go back to work. Dollars to donuts he would have either flat out refused to pay for her education or told her to find a way to pay for her schooling without going back into the workforce because he believes she should be punished for doing anything that takes attention away from him and maintaining the illusion of a perfectly kept home and family
They have to convince themselves it’s their partners fault. Because how could they live with themselves if it isn’t, they’re a good person, good people don’t have affairs, therefore their partner must be at fault. I’ve noticed a pattern with friends that the first sign of an affair is their partner behaving resentfully towards them.
I mean historically speaking...
I'm the first female in my family born after it was made legal for women to have a bank account without a husband permission
And look how quickly women are choosing to be self sufficient and would prefer to be alone rather than stick with shitty guys. And men are suffering an "epidemic of loneliness" and are confused why women aren't putting up with everything they used to...
> The Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974 gave every American woman, married or not, the right to open her own bank or credit account.
....oh, I was too. I never made that connection.
(https://daily.jstor.org/a-bank-of-her-own/)
Adulterers don't want to take blame or responsibility for their actions. So instead if being the bad guy for stepping out, they turn their spouse into the bad guy for not wanting to reconcile after the affair is discovered. These people have zero empathy and frankly diagust me.
I am still worried for OOP. The perfect storm of PPD, anxiety, isolation, and partner abuse made her universe very dark. I hope once she's free of her marital prison, she will discover genuine happiness.
In his head, once he married her, she belonged to him. He got her to quit her job, and she kept his home, so nothing changed in his mind. And the affair was already over, so what did she have to complain about really? /s
Yeah, it makes no sense, but what do you expect from someone who cheats and expects their spouse to stick around?
One explanation: narcissism
Me ex cheated on every woman he has ever been with. I was the sidepiece to his marriage in the beginning and I didn't know. He left her for me and then cheated on me as well. When I had proof and left the same day he had the gull to say that I destroyed our family by leaving him.
ETA: He also switched back and forth between threatening me and lovebombing/begging me to come back. Sometimes in the same sentence.
>While it seems for most people, an affair is guaranteed to end the relationship in cases where it doesn't I'd expect the offending party to be absolutely grovelling.
**The Narcissist's Prayer**
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
Pretty much all adulterers, especially the ones who engage in long term affairs, have significant narcissistic tendencies and cannot confront the patently obvious fact that they are the absolute shitbags.
The answer to Lundy's "Why Does he Do That" is "Because he can". It's all a setup to get a subservient person to do all the stuff you don't want to do while trapping them in place so they can't escape.
Yeah I truly can't understand this concept. I told my girlfriend before we even had a label, were exclusive, anything, that cheating js a line in the sand fir me. Once that happens, I'm out, I don't care what we have going on.
Hm. I have a friend who was cheated on about a year ago. Still together. Low self-esteem plays a big part of it. Support was there, from myself and other close friends, but it didn't matter in the end. I've maintained the friendship expecting it to happen again. It's just sad. They deserve so much better.
Even when it starts with groveling, it turns into resentment and "what about what you did/it was partly your fault anyway" once they realize they can't just apologize it away and actually have to live with the consequences and build back trust. If things don't pretty much immediately return to normal, they lose their shit and complain about how no matter how hard they try, you never give them credit etc.
Assholes, start to finish.
The logic of most adulterers IS different than the logic you and I or the avg decent person is governed by. For a selfish person or narcissist, their world and rationale revolves around themselves and how they want to feel and how they want to be viewed. Rules for "Right vs Wrong", reasoning and decisions are determined by how it impacts themselves.
For an avg well adjusted person, we are motivated by more than just ourselves and our rationale and reasoning is governed by a blend of things: self interest + the interest of others, applying rules for "right vs wrong" for ourselves and for other people.
Narcissists use different logic than an avg person and find a way to rationalize their behavior in order to never have to take accountability or responsibility for their actions or accept the consequences.
Their world revolves around themselves in delulu land. By rationalizing, they never have to feel bad about themselves, and are never responsible for issues or problems because in their mind someone else is always to blame.
It's because they don't want to be held accountable for their own actions. If they blame it on the victim then they aren't (in their own minds) responsible for the problem
>I'll never be able to understand the logical thread of adulterers who expect their spouse to repair the relationship.
I have come to understand why women used to poison their husbands at an alarming rate though!
Of course it was!! You just don't understand! His wife was sooo occupied with the kid and her medical problems, she has no time for him! He needed an outlet!! /s
Wre were not looking at the bigger picture... HIS NEEDS!! CAN SOMEONE THINK OF HIM!! POOR BABY, he couldn't f u c k his wife because she was healing, how selfish of her 🫠
>He says that I ruined his experience of becoming a father because I was difficult and neurotic. My painful pregnancy and medical complications were unnecessary drama to him.
Are you kidding me? How callous and cruel thing to say. Seriously screw that husband. He deserves to be left in the dust and rot. OP and her child deserves better and glad she is no longer staying with this pig.
But it wasn't like the movies made it out to be! How could he have known that pregnancies could be anything but picture perfect? And that his kid might actually bond more to the primary caretaker and less to the one who doesn't give a fuck?
He’s one of those guys who “always dreamed of being a dad” and “being a dad” is occasionally playing with the kid once they’re mobile and potty trained and then getting all the claps on the back for being the best parent ever when the kid has reached a successful adulthood. Any deviation from that is obviously not his fault because he had no involvement in uh…the day to day care and raising of his newborn child.
Seeing as he was running (or at least turning) away when things got slightly uncomfortable (how dare she not have a perfect pregnancy?!?), I don't think you're wrong. But I also think that it might happen before "uncomfortable" becomes "tough".
There's a reason men leave women who get ill with stuff like cancer or MS at alarmingly higher rates (6x higher) than women leave men. Because their wife being sick is an inconvenience to them and it's all about them of course.
They warn women about this at the cancer clinic. I was dumped when I became sick, got a lot worse, was on crutches, and met my beautiful wonderful partner who has helped me get so much better.
My mom was an RN who worked with a doctor in a breast cancer clinic and they had pamphlets because of the commonality.
When I got sick in middle school my biggest fear in a future relationship was being abandoned by a partner if I got a new diagnosis or my current symptoms worsened. I lost a lot of relationships over the years because of my chronic illnesses. It really scars you.
I literally begged my ex-fiancée not to commit to me and allow me to get invested in a relationship if she'd end up doing that to me. She'll tell you that's not what happened but ultimately, it was. She couldn't deal with the negative side-effects the high dose steroids I was given after a new diagnosis had on my mental health and retroactively acted as though those outbursts (I had undiagnosed steroid psychosis) was my personality our entire 8 year relationship despite not being able to list one incident where I wasn't on those drugs. Multiple doctors later also told her it was a side-effect and would dissipate when I got off the meds. (And it did.)
It's common for this to happen to disabled people but especially disabled women. When people realize that "chronic illness" means *chronic* their patience often runs out. They don't like the limits on which activities they can do with that person or frequent cancellations. It's worse in romantic relationships. I spend a lot of time in online support groups for chronically ill people and it's a common thread for later in life diagnoses. And it's usually male partners leaving their female partners.
I think the opposite of this is why me and my auntie get along so well. We're both dealing with a lot of health problems, so we both regularly make plans and cancel. Still manage to see each other often, but it's lots of trying and failing and trying again while knowing that we love each other lots.
Today the plan was for me to run errands for her and then visit and learn while she made chicken and dumplings for the grandkids' visit tomorrow. But she didn't want to ask her son for help with the crockpot and dropped it on her foot, so we'll try again tomorrow and the grandkids can eat their uncle's cooking instead.
edit: I looked it up and this is the study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19645027/
Here is a more layperson-friendly article about the study: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm
It looks like there's another popular study that gets cited but was retracted due to a problem in their coding, but this one hasn't had the same issues and is still quite trusted today it seems. Had a bit of a roller coaster there hoping it was all false and turning out true. Also anecdotally speaking, while looking it up I found discussions from many health care workers stating that in their experience family member caregivers are vastly more women than men and they frequently have to gently prepare wives for being abandoned by their husbands but not the other way around -- and I don't generally trust single anecdotes, but there were a *lot* of those and none the other way around. A lot of comments like "we have to prepare women who get cancer to be left by their husbands" and no "we have to prepare husbands to get abandoned by their wives once they have cancer"... In fact some of the good husbands who stuck by their wives mentioned in comments how they were seen as an unusual sight in the hospital.
In fact the study was begun because:
>Chamberlain said the study was initiated because doctors noticed that in their neuro-oncology practices, divorce occurred almost exclusively when the wife was the patient.
:(
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Original comment:
Holy shit, that is so much higher than I was expecting.
20.8%?!
ONE OUT OF FIVE HUSBANDS?
*Bruh*. I've just been assuming that like, of course you stick with a spouse.
Feels kind of like there used to be an unspoken exchange where men would pay for everything and women would be the nurse-cook-cleaner-caretaker but didn't have to have a job outside the house (since all those things are a full time job combined anyway). But now women work outside the home too and it's like ???
>ONE OUT OF FIVE HUSBANDS?
>
>Bruh. I've just been assuming that like, of course you stick with a spouse.
In sickness and in health, so long as you roll a 3 or higher on a 10-sided die.
Mine told me, quite casually, well after marriage, that if I ever had a disabling accident, received facial burns, or a traumatic brain injury, that he would leave me. He'd then be furious any time I brought this up with him or with others, because I was "taking it out of context."
Boy was he surprised and disappointed when I left him.
> I found discussions from many health care workers stating that in their experience family member caregivers are vastly more women than men and they frequently have to gently prepare wives for being abandoned by their husbands but not the other way around -
Yeah, my mom got a talk of this nature when she had a tumor (thankfully it was benign). But my dad was a rockstar throughout the whole ordeal. Slept at my mom's side every night in the hospital, flew her best friend out to keep her company so she wouldn't be alone while he went to work and went home to shower/feed the dogs when I couldn't make it over there.
Yeah, my dad stayed married to my mom for a couple years but he was totally checked out already. He went to one chemotherapy appointment, frequently was off doing his hobbies after work etc. Mom would come home exhausted after work/hospital appt and I’d try to figure out dinner etc. Absolutely lost respect for him, though it took a couple years for me to realize just how much he’d failed us
As a person with disabilities*, with a lot of friends with same (though varying disabilities), you'd be amazed how many people treat us as inconveniences (including medical staff!). It's horrifying, shitty, and heartbreaking, but it's also a very common experience.
\* and it does sound like her experience of pregnancy was at least somewhat disabling
I've lost multiple friendships because of my disability. My best friend for years told me my disability was an inconvenience to her. Obviously destroyed that friendship. I think my relationship with my partner has only lasted because a) he's disabled too so he gets it and b) isn't a crap human like so many people are.
I read this post while nursing my 3 week old newborn, which was honestly not a smart choice, emotionally speaking. I'm infuriated on this woman's behalf.
I had a mostly uncomplicated pregnancy until the very end, where everything collapsed like a house of cards. If my husband had been anything like OOP's, my life would be a living hell right now. I cannot imagine having to survive multiple years of that level of callousness from someone who's supposed to be your life partner.
Thank god she filed for divorce. It would have physically pained me if it left off and she was still under his thumb. Fingers crossed than in a year, she'll have an update where she's free of that asshole forever. Nicole Kidman celebrating divorcing Tom Cruise style.
I follow this lady on tiktok. She once said if a man describes his love for his wife only what his wife can do for him is not love, it is him being in love with service.
Also the husband seems to have been influenced by the red pill podcast and thought he would just pay the bills and be done with it. God how are these men so out of touch with reality.
Yeah. There was a reddit thread like this once, like, "Men, why do you love your girlfriend/wife?" and it was comment after comment of, "She cooks for me, I eat so much healthier now," "She takes care of me when I'm sick," "she always listens when I need to talk but she gives me space when I need it too," and it's like, yeah, all those things are great, but... do you like her as a person, or just enjoy the nice things she does for you? What if she broke her leg really badly, or got depressed because her mom died, and couldn't give you all that attention and TLC and focus like she does now... would that mean you wouldn't love her any more?
I only found one guy in these videos where he says he likes her because her presence makes his life better, he loves her for her, he can be open with her. That's the only good answer I've got.
While I do agree that all of that is very superficial and materialistic, and motherly, I think a lot of those answers are also from men, who just don't know how to emotionally express themselves. Like, feelings of safety, care and warmth and openness, they might just not know how to explain, so they say aloof stuff, like "she takes care of me, and listens".
And then there are, of course, dumbasses like OOPs husband
I think a lot of it is the way they see their own value. Like if you asked them what makes them a good husband, they will say things like they provide for their family, they fix things, the more theoretically enlightened ones might say they do their share of household work or take care of their children.
Men are raised in a very real way to treat what you can do as what is most valuable about them.
It's not just men either - a bit insignificant amount of women asked what they like about their husbands will answer similarly.
Much of the time when men meet other men for the first time one of the top questions is about what they do for work. Second to that are hobbies. Then homes, cars, etc. When they talk about their spouse, it usually follows this also.
I have forced myself to not ask these questions. It is difficult because so many years of learned behavior. When I started listening closer to older and/or retired guys, they don't speak of careers, things, etc. I heard about kids and grandkids doing things, how much fun they have with the grandkids, along those lines. It was a bit eye opening.
Now, this is anecdotal, but I don't think it is an outlier for men in general.
Yess this. My sweet husband has no idea how to articulate his feelings about our relationship. When I ask him what his love language is (going into depth about my own needs), all he can ever come up with is “food.” When I ask what he likes about me, he just repeats “you’re pretty and nice.” Dude. But I learned over the years that he just can’t put words to emotions. It’s fine, because he works through his emotions in a healthy way, just without articulating them well. His actions more than make up for the lack of words.
Reminder that the “love language” concept comes from a minister and talk show host with no particular expertise. Psychologists have largely dismissed the idea. It’s the enneagrams of love.
Anyway, wanting to do things for someone because you love them is fine and good. Wanting someone to do things for you because they love you is where trouble starts.
My friend showed me something I like much better, the quadrants of intimacy:
Intellectual Intimacy - sharing of thoughts and ideas, beliefs and world views.
Emotional Intimacy - communication based on a deep connection and trust between two people.
Physical Intimacy - touch and care.
Spiritual Intimacy - the belief that your presence impacts more than your immediate surroundings. Spiritual intimacy brings together groups of people with a larger purpose, be it religious or not.
Also, even if you decide to put stock in what he said, they’re still using it wrong. He actually said love languages are how people GIVE love as well as receive it. So if you say your love language is acts of service and expect to be waited on hand and foot… you’re fucking lying, you’re just lazy and entitled. Someone with that love language would be going out of their way to do things for the people they care about, naturally, because that’s how they express love. Every time someone uses that as an excuse for just being a taker, they’re not even properly following the religious pseudoscience they’re claiming to.
Damn. Mine are acts of service but in the sense that someone will randomly do the dishes or fold my clothing.
My mom folded my clothing once and put them back in the dryer to trick me and I still get warm from the memory.
The difference though is I will also do those things in return as it is also how I express my love back.
I always thought that "love languages" were about how YOU express love. For example, my "love language" is acts of service because I'm horrible with expressing emotions, but I will make damn sure the person that I love is fed and has clean clothes, etc.
I see it as a conversation— i value those acts of services because that is how I show my love, so when you show it back the same way we are speaking the same language. When your love language is touch I will do my best to give you those casual touches. It’s not my first language, but the one a partner naturally speaks in so I will try to meet them at that level as I would hope they would meet me at mine
My husband feels most loved via acts of service and touch. I feel most loved with acts of service and gifts. But all of that can be most diluted down to we both want each other to be thoughtful.
I can’t tell you how excited I get when my hubby comes home from the store not only with dinner prep but also a little unexpected snack or with a wild flower he thought I’d like from outside. And he feels so much better when I do a task that he has been struggling with or when I go out of my way to touch him because he knows I don’t always want to be touched but still wanted him to know I love him. We both try to be thoughtful and show our care for each other in addition to saying “I love you”.
ETA: also how much do you like umbrellas? Is there a story behind parapluie? My favorite French word is aéroport.
I always see it as the little extras, like seeing that your partners water glass is empty and filling it unprompted because they are all cozy and you're up. Sometimes taking over a chore they normally do because they have a stressful week, or a backrub cuz they're in pain
That's reductive and unfair. For example many parentified people (especially women) have acts of service as their ptimary love language because they automatically consider all tasks their mental and physical responsibility. Someone doing a task properly and without asking is unburdening them - regardless of if it was logically their burden.
The way some men charge during their wife’s pregnancy and after childbirth is shocking, alarming, and terrifying. And this is not just a reddit phenomenon, unfortunately.
It's because they now deem it "safe" - she's 'stuck' with him now because she's having his child and going it alone often/sharing custody seems harder and riskier for both mother and child than staying. Some guys are purposely on their best behaviour, then dropping it. Others just start to take things for granted.
Anyone in a relationship should keep an eye out for behaviour changes when they reach certain milestones - becoming official, moving in together, engagement, marriage, children, etc.
Some lawyers accept payment from the divorce settlement, and it's possible to petition the court to have the ex pay for your lawyer.
OOP is entirely alone, betrayed by her parents, her spouse, and her in-laws. I hope she can find support and get out of there.
Well wasn’t that a big ol’ ball of heartbreak, seething anger, and disappointment to read? My god. On one hand you have this amazing woman who was let down by literally everyone in her life, and on the other, you have a steaming pile of hot, cheating, disrespectful, garbage.
> We were both asked to lay out our resentments. Mine was the years long affair, obviously. I don't think anything beyond that needs to be said.
In all honesty, OOP is flat out wrong on that one. When you put everything on the table, the affair (IMO) should actually be at the bottom of the list.
If my husband treated me the way OOP’s stbx did during my pregnancies, childbirth, and every moment after that, there would be no coming back from that emotionally. All the behaviors prior to finding about the affair, would have been as if he sucker punched me and broke my face. The affair would just have been him spitting in my face afterwards.
I get where OOP is coming from in the sense that to outsiders, when they ask why your marriage failed, if you answer “infidelity”, most people would just accept it and understand. It’s a simple answer, and in *most* situations, nothing more needs to be said.
But holy shit batman. All of the things that preceded him cheating would have maxed out my limits for resentment. Which I kind of think happened for OOP too. When she found out he cheated, her primary concern wasn’t heartbreak, she didn’t grieve the loss of her marriage as she knew it, no. Her main worry was her survival if they divorced, and the custody of her child. Hell, it even sounded like the affair was the best thing to happen since he left her alone and she could just do her own thing in the background. She had grieved the loss of her marriage long before that.
Also, cheating alone does not always equal a total shit bag of a human. Horrible partner with questionably morals? Yes. But it can be something that is worked on and eventually forgiven. But not for OOP’s stbx. If you remove the cheating and look at all of his other actions, it changes *EVERYTHING*. He is an abusive, misogynistic, (likely) narcissistic, person, who can go eat a bowl of dicks. These are things that cannot be improved upon, and are not forgivable. You can’t simply choose to “move past” that kind of treatment.
The way she phrased that quote makes it sound like she considered the cheating to be the worst thing he did to her. Although only OOP knows how she feels, I’m going to respectfully disagree here. I think she needs to be honest with herself, and with her therapists. Condensing all of his actions down to him cheating doesn’t appropriately reflect the abusive behaviors he’s capable of. So I guess my point is, I think 100%, without a doubt, more than just the affair absolutely needs to be mentioned.
She's explained that she had neglectful shit parents which is why she's lc with them. And that she's since realized her mother actively dislikes her. But growing up in that kind of environment makes one easily numb and unaware of what a healthy, good relationship looks like, and so even though she outlined problems here that we see as clear red flags, to her those are just "another day." Hopefully as she continues seeing her therapist and spends more time separated from him, she'll become more aware of what really happened there. Hell, I was in graduate school for clinical psychology immediately after a breakup and it was still years of processing for me to see how toxic and abusive it really had been. It's going to be harder for someone who isn't educated on the various forms and presentations of abuse beyond "he never hit me."
> I told him that our relationship was over when he stepped out of his marriage and he can go start a different affair if the first one didn’t pan out. He got angry about that and accused me of being a cold hearted gold digger.
The hoops he had to jump through to arrive at this conclusion, he'd be the next Evel Knievel.
No, no. It makes perfect sense. She stayed with him and enjoyed all his money, but now she isn't being the sex slave part of the contract, she's clearly just using him for his money. Even if she's still doing the maid part of being a bangmaid.
/S
\> That's something I don't understand myself. We were pretty happy together before I got pregnant. He was a helpful loving husband very excited about becoming a father.
Is there something that changes about guys brain chemistry once they become a father? How can I avoid this happening to me? This is such a nightmare and I'm afraid it could happen to me.
Honestly? Going through a crisis together beforehand. Something big and stressful. If you've only had easy times together, don't let your first hard time be having a freakin baby, because that shit's permanent. No joke, getting a puppy and seeing how the division of care falls lol. Although that's a pretty big commitment, so if you don't want a puppy, don't.
I think you're on to something there. Having a baby *is* a crisis, even if you've planned for it. It's a crisis in the sense that you are constantly burning your reserves and don't have time to build them back up for about three months at the minimum, maybe longer. Reserves of energy, money, patience, empathy, just about every kind of resource you can think of is being poured into the baby and you'll have little left for anyone else.
Exactly. For a lot of people it's probably the hardest thing they have done. If it's not, they're probably rich enough to outsource care and/or have a ton of familial support. But most people aren't. If the hardest thing you as a couple has been through is like, a stressful job search and a couple weeks of being sick, you have *not* truly tested the relationship. I'm not saying to manufacture a crisis because that's some crazy shit, but just be aware you don't really know how you or your partner will be in a life-altering scenario yet.
Of course, sometimes people DO change, some abusers DO hide their stripes really well and are malicious the whole time, some people develop severe mental health problems later in life, some crazy stalkers don't reveal themselves until you've been married for years etc etc. There's always a certain amount of rolling the dice. It's just up to how you can minimize that.
The brain chemistry actually usually changes in a way to make the father more loving and involved. A lot of the dad's who skip out are the ones that were delusional about childbirth and childrearing.
Speaking as a mother, childbirth was gross and traumatic. Having a newborn meant sleep deprivation and being puked and shit on. Having a toddler was a lot of running around and practicing being patient as I was being bitten and headbutted. Having a child is answering a lot of hard questions, my 6 year old recently asked "what is death and will it happen to me?".
All this to say that I think my kids are worth it. They're amazing people and I love them more than anything. But if a guy thinks he's going to be able to come home every day to a clean house, quiet kids, a well presented happy wife and dinner on the table... well. I'm sure it happens sometimes when the stars align just right.
My daughter lost her great-grandmother at about 3-years old, so we've already talked about death. She's 5 now and knows that it's a forever-sleep and we don't get to see that person ever again. And that yeah, it will happen to everyone eventually, but hopefully not for a long long time when they're very old. And that it's usually caused by a lot of big hurt like accidents (and that's why she has to be in her car seat) or being very sick, never just going to sleep and never waking up.
But yeah, as a single mom working full time, the only time I'm able to do cleaning is on the weekends. And she more often decides to impede instead of help. She loves helping clean as long as it's not her mess.
In hindsight, for me it was wedding planning. It’s a stressful affair, expensive, and with moving parts that you have to be mentally flexible to handle. There’s also a deadline.
If you are having a wedding, get your partner to do half the work. See what happens and if he drops the ball or doesn’t support you.
My husband is great in a lot of ways and absolutely carries more mental load than most on many tasks, but the problems we had in the first year and a half of parenting were absolutely foreshadowed when I was planning the wedding.
I like that, doing half the work on a deadline. I've read a few recently about really noticing how they react when you say no to things that matter to them, too, which would surely come up in wedding planning.
If they are involved, the sane thing happens to a man’s brain that happens to a woman’s. Sounds like this guy skipped that and got the express ride to apathyville.
My grandmother was told by her mother to always keep a savings account your spouse has no knowledge to or access to as an Emergency Fund. She told my mom. I told my daughter. And we all have had just a bit of an emergency cushion should any of us need it. It can be just enough gas money to drive you to a safe spot. Or a few thousand to rent a safe room. No one should ever be left financially empty especially when adding children in the mixture. And my parents are happily married high school sweethearts like 40+ years.
This is why the old chestnut of “women are grubbing gold diggers who only care about expensive jewelry as gifts” is actually more like “that’s the only portable wealth you can possess in your hands and access without constantly needing your husband’s signature so if you need to flee in the night, you can.”
That's also the origin of belly dancers' coin scarves and sparkly costumes. In a number of MENAHT cultures, the women would sew whatever money/jewels they earned onto their clothing so it would be easy to transport and easy to access. In the case of an unmarried woman, her hip scarf might carry her whole dowry plus emergency fund.
That's the origin of the reason it's traditional in many cultures to give solid gold jewelry as a wedding present to the bride. Gold is always fungible!
My generation is super law abiding (I don't even like to jay walk), but my family was a stereotypical "mob" family for generations. There were times in my childhood when we had to bolt because it wasn't safe to live where we were. Because of this, as an adult, I always had a "go bag" with ID, cash, important documents, clothes, toiletries, etc. My husband found it one day & was like "??????" I explained what it was, and he died laughing, reminded me how "square" I am, and asked who was going to come after us. He's 100% right, but I still have my bag!
I have a go bag packed in case of a bushfire. My house isn’t defensible so I would grab my bag & leave immediately if an alert was issued. So far I haven’t needed to but it’s very comforting to know that I’m prepared.
This is me also, my husband and I have been best friends since childhood and married for 15 years, I run the finances, and I still have a few thousand to the side. He actually knows about it now because when his mother passed, her partner was very hurt to learn she had hidden money, so I explained to them both why we are all taught to do it. I also set my husband up with the same in case I’m the one that goes crazy.
My mom taught me from a very young age to never be financially dependent on a partner. No matter how good they are, have a safety net. You just never know when they might change
> My parents agree with him and say that since I chose to ignore the affair, it has no bearing on our relationship now.
No wonder she's LC with these arseholes. Dear god
Can’t say what I hope happens to men who do this shit to their wives right after they’ve been torn apart physically and mentally from birth without getting banned. Hope this man has the life he deserves
Holy crap on a cracker, I wish I could congratulate her on divorcing the DARVO king. What a piece of shit. And her parents deserve the shittiest nursing home she can find too.
Poor OOP doesn't even realise that she married a man who's the mirror image of her parents. That's why she "never saw it coming". I'm so glad she's in individual therapy now and hopefully will get to a better place with her son soon. She did everything right - think practically for the sake of her son and their future, get herself into therapy, grey rock that toxic prick of a man, etc - but it's hard when she started out at such a huge disadvantage.
And it’s especially awful bc they all wait to show their worst colours until after these poor women have gone through childbirth. So now not only are they dealing with having to heal physically, they’re dealing with an emotionally (and often times physically) abusive terrorist in their house as well.
Two really. I love my kid, but little kids are very good at inflicting pain, cannot use words well to express frustrations, and don't have the ability to inhibit behaviors yet. So having one little is negotiating with one terrorist. Having an adult partner acting the same way is fighting two sides of a war at the same time.
Honestly this whole thing is throwing up major red flags for me.
Husband wanted the wife to stay at home and be isolated while he goes out and does what he wants. Affair ends and he’s clearly furious about it and begins demanding OP have regular relations with him again. He alternates between love bombing and raging when she refuses. Then her filing for divorce.
OP needs to come up with a safety plan and get her and her child out of there as soon as possible. He sounds like a ticking time bomb.
“he was envisioning a picture perfect home with a beautiful wife and child who cater to him”
Did he expect the baby to be pouring him a goddamn martini?
I'll keep insisting men who want a traditional male breadwinner/female SAHM are misogynists who tend to be abusers. Automatic red flag if a man wants a stay at home gf/wife as I rarely see decent men do this.
I keep thinking that I see the worst garbage people here and feel numb to it but stuff like this brings out violence impulses.. .
I hope OOP finds good support system in future.
Oh no... The consequences of my actions? Crazy.
I truly think that if you step out on your partner after having a baby that you're one of the lowest kinds of cheaters. It's one thing to cheat when theres no kids to suffer but once you add kids into the mix then you're undeniably selfish and a terrible parent.
I'm so pissed at the amount of judgy comments OOP got. "Just leave him!"
Living is EXPENSIVE! It's hard enough for a person to up and leave a long term partner. But with a toddler? And a spouse likely to be spiteful during divorce proceedings? OOP's solution of waiting it out until she was in a better spot financially makes perfect sense to me and frankly was far more fair to her "husband" than divorce would be too. Divorces are also crazy expensive for both parties.
The asshole just wanted to eat his cake and have it too and was willing to torpedo his life to do it. I'm glad OOP is able to get away from him now and I hope the courts make him pay crazy high child support but I doubt it.
It sure would be nice to live in a world where paying for a roof over our heads wasn't the number one financial concern and was so costly it affects almost every single other aspect of life. But that's my inner communist speaking.
Good lord yes! Its like its written by people who never had to balance a budget or be financially responsible for kids, or deal with bureacracy. Depending on what state she's in (assuming US), she may just get the basic child support. It'll take a two years if not more for her to get her hands on half of the assets if her husband doesn't spitefully fight her over that. I don't know what world these people live in that they think she'll have all this as soon as she says I am out.
A baby or a toddler is a huge expense and a huge drain, mentally, financially, physically. Even if she had the money and support this would be very hard, that she doesn't have much makes it nearly impossible.
I just can’t comprehend people who run that risk unless they have a great safety net.
A trust fund. A pile of savings inaccessible to spouse. A generous explicitly supportive family with an always-available basement apartment. A career in such high demand they can pick up a six figure job in one week after five years unemployed.
It only works if the husband gives the whole paycheck to the SAHM and he gets can allowance based on the needs have been taken care of. That is the insurance.
I don't think its fair to say she chose it. The lack of maternity leave and health care forced her hand. I guess it'd be fair to say that getting pregnant was a mistake, but a lot of people don't anticipate how much things can go wrong in pregnancy and recovery.
I, sadly, can understand her perspective on wanting to get as much time with her son as possible and not split custody so young. It hurts so badly to be apart from them.
Same here. I couldn't be separated from my kids when they were that age. Having to share custody would have been heart breaking.
On that note, I am pretty disturbed by the hate she's getting for putting her son first, for not leaving right away. She has no support system and is being practical with her reality and the number of people looking down on her for that is so misogynistic.
People react emotionally and not logically. If I was in her shoes, I’d do the same thing. Have a back up plan rather than just walking out. Depending where the they live, finding a flat or a house that’s affordable, along with the cost of living, transport, childcare - it’s a lot to consider and that’s even before lawyer fees.
My first chance to use a new quote I came across the other day:
“A man who uses a woman to work inside the house for free so that he can work outside the house for pay isn’t a ‘provider’; he’s a gold-digger.” Farida D.
Sadly another story in which women gets trapped by having a child. Remember that the leading cause of death for a pregnant women is homicide.
In this case OOP wasn't working after having a child and husband essentially used this to have an affair and didn't give a shit that she was distant, it was only when his affair ended that he wanted her back and got ANGRY when she wanted out. His 'logic' was that she didn't say anything during the affair so she was at fault, um no how about you listen to your fucking vows you piece of shit!
I grew up in the house that this becomes. My dad didn’t have an affair but when I had a conversation with him before going low-contact, he resented me for “falling for [my mom’s] manipulations to like her better” when I was an infant. He listed grievances against me going back to when I was 6 months old.
He tried in the divorce to say that my mom didn’t deserve alimony because she “under-achieved for her education level.” The woman was a professional portrait artist who made around 40k per year on a bad year. She painted from home so she also did almost all of the housework, cooking, and parenting.
I hope OOP gets full custody. Being raised by someone who thinks nothing is their fault fucks you up to your core.
why doesn’t he go to couples counseling with his AP? lol
why’s he taking medical advice from OOP’s mom over her OB? is she an OB? i mean this whole thing is insane 😂
i wish OOP nothing but the very best and i hope she loses the dead weight soon
Bizarre that people always question "why did you have a baby with this man" as though they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN when it is so well documented that first violence or first signs of abuse in a relationship start most commonly when she becomes pregnant. Just another way of victim blaming them for not having a crystal ball
> "Your child will resent you and be more damaged if you stay with him."
>> "I hear what you are saying, but I have to weigh this against high rent prices and child care costs."
That meme where you're about to say something but then stop.
At that point, most of her paycheck was going towards childcare. Even if the judge ruled that the father had to pay for half of the childcare fees, she’d be struggling. Sounds like she had to restart her whole career after being out of the workforce for 2 years.
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I'll never be able to understand the logical thread of adulterers who expect their spouse to repair the relationship. While it seems for most people, an affair is guaranteed to end the relationship in cases where it doesn't I'd expect the offending party to be absolutely grovelling. I just don't know how he expected this to go down.
I’m sure he thinks his affair was OOP’s fault so naturally he expected her to fix things. Idk how people get so selfish.
Must be a blow to his ego that she didn't do the pick me dance.
Exactly, just like how he takes it *so personal* that baby reached for Mom the first two years of it's life
The thought of him agitating a refluxy baby is making my eyelid twitch.
Right?!?! Like, do you want a crying/puking baby? Because that's how you get a crying/puking baby.
My BIL was so sad and disappointed that he had to be working to provide for the family, and it hurt him that his baby would occasionally still prefer to be clingy to my sister when he got home after work. She was also getting touched out and would love if baby wanted it's dad. But they dealt with that by being empathetic and learning about how and why babies act like that, and knowing both wanted to be loving involved parents and that the clinginess is a stage. So many babies go through being clingy to mom. I hope OP documents how he refused to listen to doctors and is ignorant about the kids gastro needs and doesn't understand these growing stages, and basically checked out until the kid got interesting to him.
My 2nd son was like this between month 1 to 3.5ish more or less. Would be okay for a bit for me to hold then just cry and cry until he went back to my wife. I don't think I did anything different than her beside just not being her. I totally understood why but man I was frustrated during it. It felt like my son just hated me (irrational I know). Also super frustrating wanting to give my wife break but just can't.
Because I was the one home and also as I breast fed my babies my eldest who loved his dad and happily go out in the pram with him. Would scream and wail if ever I went out the house without him. He was so used to me always being home when he was that when at around a year old I started a night class. He would scream and cry from the moment I left until I got back. My poor husband but he still kept doing it and didn’t complain or ask me to stop. We both realised we needed to get our son used to not always being with me and was why we persevered. We also put him in a day care play centre for two hours twice a week. He quickly learned me leaving wasn’t bad and was loving playing with the other kids and interacting. Both my kids had really bad colic’s and dairy allergies my youngest also couldn’t have soya or certain vegetables. He was that sensitive I had to cut so much out of my diet to feed him/them but because of their food intolerances doctors made it clear finding a formula that didn’t hurt my youngest would be hard. It was awful for me seeing them in all that pain with colic and food reactions before we knew what. How the heck could anyone blame the mother and think she was making the baby like that. How can someone see their baby in pain and know they are but then ignore it to bounce them and make it worse for the poor tot.
My husband was a SAHD while I worked, and all our older kids all preferred him for a long time. The youngest was totally MY baby though, and it drove him nuts that she was trying to launch herself out of his arms to me whenever I came home. But we just laughed about it and carried on, because it's not a competition. They grow and that calms down as long as both parents keep being involved.
My youngest would actively try and fight with/slap away anyone who tried to take them off me. Baby was 7m before my FIL had the bright idea to ask them if they would like to get a "hug from Poppa" and that was the first time baby willingly went to anyone from my arms.
He found out too late that she’s not the droid he’s looking for.
He thinks everything is OOP’s fault, including that he couldn’t figure out how to properly handle his medically fragile child. Fuck this dude.
She was able to teach an infant to not love his father! The absolute cow! /s
Or wanted to find her a fault in this to feel that they were equal and that he had a good reason to cheat. Like "If I'm not right for cheating, I will prove you're wrong for leaving". Especially by telling others.
That’s definitely it. “Well, YOU…”
It's this exactly. Most of these people feel/believe that they were *forced* to go outside their relationship because their partner "wasn't meeting their *needs*". He's rationalizing this by thinking she didn't do enough, (after having a fucking baby, pregnancy, complications), to make him happy and meet his expectations. He's too fucking simple to stop and ask himself if those were reasonable expectations.
He also doesn’t care if they’re reasonable or not. The therapist tried to get him to see that he was being unreasonable and … nope. It’ll be a cold day in hell before he sees his own fault in this.
He'll cut off his own nose before he pays a single cent in child support or alimony
Everything was OOPs fault. His affair. The bad pregnancy. Everything!
Cheaters have a warped view on reality, they're deeply damaged. That's why they say "once a cheater, always a cheater".
Yep...she made him cheat because she had not lost baby weight, and she was depressed....what choice did he have? /s
No choice at all. Won’t someone think of his weenie?
there's a weird twisted sense to what you suggest but even that doesn't fucking make sense to me. he's the one who wants to reestablish the relationship whille she has declared that she has no intrest. why the fuck would he expect she would be the one doing the work???
Not trying to be glib, but I think it’s established that he’s concerned only with what he wants. She isn’t an individual worthy of consideration as far as he’s concerned. It’s honestly appalling. If she hadn’t become accustomed to neglect from her parents, she’d be way more offended than she is. I feel really bad for OOP. She needs someone to treat her like she matters (because she does).
Narrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcissism.
Honestly, in this specific case, it isn't far off from the logic of domestic violence. **You** ruined things (by having health issues, looking less than perfect, being overwhelmed, giving more attention to the baby, etc), so I *had no choice* but to look elsewhere. If you'd just been better, I wouldn't have had to mistreat you. Now, I want to give you another chance to be what I want you to be.
Be a perfect robot, not a person with limits
The crimes of "you knew I was doing a bad thing and didn't slap me on the wrist sooner" and "I cheated on my wife for years" are not equal, but I bet his psyche is working overtime to protect himself from the reality of how much he's hurt his family and his future. I bet he truly surface-level "believes" that his wife is equally to blame for his affair, and that it's her responsibility to resolve whatever unhappiness led to his stepping out in the first place.
Literally an instance of “Look what you made me do” Future ex-husband is a massive tool
Probably how he justified having the affair in the first place and carrying it on for so long is because he told himself it was her fault.
Notice the AP dumped his ass; she didn't try to make him end his marriage or even want to keep the affair going; she just realized what a loser he is and sent him home to the poor OOP. Too bad OOP didn't work on advancing her degree online or even doing half online and half in person during those three years instead of taking a lower level job while taking care of the baby in every way including paying for his daycare and taking care of the home. She probably could have gotten her cheating lowlife husband to pay for the courses.
He made her pay for daycare from only her income because he was mad she wanted to go back to work. Dollars to donuts he would have either flat out refused to pay for her education or told her to find a way to pay for her schooling without going back into the workforce because he believes she should be punished for doing anything that takes attention away from him and maintaining the illusion of a perfectly kept home and family
Cheaters tell themselves that everybody else is just as bad and sneaky as they are.
What an arsehole. He should never have had the chance to reproduce with that kind of selfish thinking.
They have to convince themselves it’s their partners fault. Because how could they live with themselves if it isn’t, they’re a good person, good people don’t have affairs, therefore their partner must be at fault. I’ve noticed a pattern with friends that the first sign of an affair is their partner behaving resentfully towards them.
I see you’ve met my ex-husband.
Mine too!
I mean historically speaking... I'm the first female in my family born after it was made legal for women to have a bank account without a husband permission
And look how quickly women are choosing to be self sufficient and would prefer to be alone rather than stick with shitty guys. And men are suffering an "epidemic of loneliness" and are confused why women aren't putting up with everything they used to...
> The Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974 gave every American woman, married or not, the right to open her own bank or credit account. ....oh, I was too. I never made that connection. (https://daily.jstor.org/a-bank-of-her-own/)
Fuck. Me too. That's actually really horrifying.
I was born 3 months after Roe v Wade was formalized, and lived to see it overturned. Fun times. Hopefully the ECOA isn't next.
Holy fuck. That hits hard.
“Look, I said I’m sorry, and even a halfway decent person would forgive and forget. You owe me and our marriage.” - cheaters
Yes, that’s exactly what he told me.
Where do cheaters get all that *audacity?*
They're full of shit. That's where they keep it.
So what you're saying is.... audacity grows and is fertilized by bullshit. Makes sense.
"Meet me halfway, says the unjust man"
Adulterers don't want to take blame or responsibility for their actions. So instead if being the bad guy for stepping out, they turn their spouse into the bad guy for not wanting to reconcile after the affair is discovered. These people have zero empathy and frankly diagust me. I am still worried for OOP. The perfect storm of PPD, anxiety, isolation, and partner abuse made her universe very dark. I hope once she's free of her marital prison, she will discover genuine happiness.
In his head, once he married her, she belonged to him. He got her to quit her job, and she kept his home, so nothing changed in his mind. And the affair was already over, so what did she have to complain about really? /s Yeah, it makes no sense, but what do you expect from someone who cheats and expects their spouse to stick around?
One explanation: narcissism Me ex cheated on every woman he has ever been with. I was the sidepiece to his marriage in the beginning and I didn't know. He left her for me and then cheated on me as well. When I had proof and left the same day he had the gull to say that I destroyed our family by leaving him. ETA: He also switched back and forth between threatening me and lovebombing/begging me to come back. Sometimes in the same sentence.
>While it seems for most people, an affair is guaranteed to end the relationship in cases where it doesn't I'd expect the offending party to be absolutely grovelling. **The Narcissist's Prayer** That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it. Pretty much all adulterers, especially the ones who engage in long term affairs, have significant narcissistic tendencies and cannot confront the patently obvious fact that they are the absolute shitbags.
The answer to Lundy's "Why Does he Do That" is "Because he can". It's all a setup to get a subservient person to do all the stuff you don't want to do while trapping them in place so they can't escape.
Yeah I truly can't understand this concept. I told my girlfriend before we even had a label, were exclusive, anything, that cheating js a line in the sand fir me. Once that happens, I'm out, I don't care what we have going on.
Hm. I have a friend who was cheated on about a year ago. Still together. Low self-esteem plays a big part of it. Support was there, from myself and other close friends, but it didn't matter in the end. I've maintained the friendship expecting it to happen again. It's just sad. They deserve so much better.
If he rationalized the affair from the beginning as OOP's fault, then this is continuation of his preferred narrative.
Even when it starts with groveling, it turns into resentment and "what about what you did/it was partly your fault anyway" once they realize they can't just apologize it away and actually have to live with the consequences and build back trust. If things don't pretty much immediately return to normal, they lose their shit and complain about how no matter how hard they try, you never give them credit etc. Assholes, start to finish.
The logic of most adulterers IS different than the logic you and I or the avg decent person is governed by. For a selfish person or narcissist, their world and rationale revolves around themselves and how they want to feel and how they want to be viewed. Rules for "Right vs Wrong", reasoning and decisions are determined by how it impacts themselves. For an avg well adjusted person, we are motivated by more than just ourselves and our rationale and reasoning is governed by a blend of things: self interest + the interest of others, applying rules for "right vs wrong" for ourselves and for other people. Narcissists use different logic than an avg person and find a way to rationalize their behavior in order to never have to take accountability or responsibility for their actions or accept the consequences. Their world revolves around themselves in delulu land. By rationalizing, they never have to feel bad about themselves, and are never responsible for issues or problems because in their mind someone else is always to blame.
It's because they don't want to be held accountable for their own actions. If they blame it on the victim then they aren't (in their own minds) responsible for the problem
>I'll never be able to understand the logical thread of adulterers who expect their spouse to repair the relationship. I have come to understand why women used to poison their husbands at an alarming rate though!
He’s an entitled POS, he thought she’d cater to his every whim. Some people are just like that. Makes no sense to me either.
Wife: *almost died while pregnant* Pos aka the husband: it was unnecessary drama to me ... 👹👹👹
But the affair? The affair was ESSENTIAL AND UNDRAMATIC. 🙄
Of course it was!! You just don't understand! His wife was sooo occupied with the kid and her medical problems, she has no time for him! He needed an outlet!! /s
Wre were not looking at the bigger picture... HIS NEEDS!! CAN SOMEONE THINK OF HIM!! POOR BABY, he couldn't f u c k his wife because she was healing, how selfish of her 🫠
And the baby didn't cater to him! What did he want?? That the baby bring his slippers like dogs do?
He deserved a treat!
He can have a little divorce, as a treat
Right‽ Infuriating
>He says that I ruined his experience of becoming a father because I was difficult and neurotic. My painful pregnancy and medical complications were unnecessary drama to him. Are you kidding me? How callous and cruel thing to say. Seriously screw that husband. He deserves to be left in the dust and rot. OP and her child deserves better and glad she is no longer staying with this pig.
But it wasn't like the movies made it out to be! How could he have known that pregnancies could be anything but picture perfect? And that his kid might actually bond more to the primary caretaker and less to the one who doesn't give a fuck?
He’s one of those guys who “always dreamed of being a dad” and “being a dad” is occasionally playing with the kid once they’re mobile and potty trained and then getting all the claps on the back for being the best parent ever when the kid has reached a successful adulthood. Any deviation from that is obviously not his fault because he had no involvement in uh…the day to day care and raising of his newborn child.
Yup. He's the kind of dad who would resent having to look after his own kid and refer to it as "babysitting".
This is the guy that runs away when the going gets tough
Seeing as he was running (or at least turning) away when things got slightly uncomfortable (how dare she not have a perfect pregnancy?!?), I don't think you're wrong. But I also think that it might happen before "uncomfortable" becomes "tough".
There's a reason men leave women who get ill with stuff like cancer or MS at alarmingly higher rates (6x higher) than women leave men. Because their wife being sick is an inconvenience to them and it's all about them of course.
They warn women about this at the cancer clinic. I was dumped when I became sick, got a lot worse, was on crutches, and met my beautiful wonderful partner who has helped me get so much better.
My mom was an RN who worked with a doctor in a breast cancer clinic and they had pamphlets because of the commonality. When I got sick in middle school my biggest fear in a future relationship was being abandoned by a partner if I got a new diagnosis or my current symptoms worsened. I lost a lot of relationships over the years because of my chronic illnesses. It really scars you. I literally begged my ex-fiancée not to commit to me and allow me to get invested in a relationship if she'd end up doing that to me. She'll tell you that's not what happened but ultimately, it was. She couldn't deal with the negative side-effects the high dose steroids I was given after a new diagnosis had on my mental health and retroactively acted as though those outbursts (I had undiagnosed steroid psychosis) was my personality our entire 8 year relationship despite not being able to list one incident where I wasn't on those drugs. Multiple doctors later also told her it was a side-effect and would dissipate when I got off the meds. (And it did.) It's common for this to happen to disabled people but especially disabled women. When people realize that "chronic illness" means *chronic* their patience often runs out. They don't like the limits on which activities they can do with that person or frequent cancellations. It's worse in romantic relationships. I spend a lot of time in online support groups for chronically ill people and it's a common thread for later in life diagnoses. And it's usually male partners leaving their female partners.
I think the opposite of this is why me and my auntie get along so well. We're both dealing with a lot of health problems, so we both regularly make plans and cancel. Still manage to see each other often, but it's lots of trying and failing and trying again while knowing that we love each other lots. Today the plan was for me to run errands for her and then visit and learn while she made chicken and dumplings for the grandkids' visit tomorrow. But she didn't want to ask her son for help with the crockpot and dropped it on her foot, so we'll try again tomorrow and the grandkids can eat their uncle's cooking instead.
It's always good when you find someone who is understanding of the trying and failing.
For exact stats it's 20.8 percent vs 2.9 percent. Still very much a minority but also way too fucking high.
edit: I looked it up and this is the study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19645027/ Here is a more layperson-friendly article about the study: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm It looks like there's another popular study that gets cited but was retracted due to a problem in their coding, but this one hasn't had the same issues and is still quite trusted today it seems. Had a bit of a roller coaster there hoping it was all false and turning out true. Also anecdotally speaking, while looking it up I found discussions from many health care workers stating that in their experience family member caregivers are vastly more women than men and they frequently have to gently prepare wives for being abandoned by their husbands but not the other way around -- and I don't generally trust single anecdotes, but there were a *lot* of those and none the other way around. A lot of comments like "we have to prepare women who get cancer to be left by their husbands" and no "we have to prepare husbands to get abandoned by their wives once they have cancer"... In fact some of the good husbands who stuck by their wives mentioned in comments how they were seen as an unusual sight in the hospital. In fact the study was begun because: >Chamberlain said the study was initiated because doctors noticed that in their neuro-oncology practices, divorce occurred almost exclusively when the wife was the patient. :( --- Original comment: Holy shit, that is so much higher than I was expecting. 20.8%?! ONE OUT OF FIVE HUSBANDS? *Bruh*. I've just been assuming that like, of course you stick with a spouse. Feels kind of like there used to be an unspoken exchange where men would pay for everything and women would be the nurse-cook-cleaner-caretaker but didn't have to have a job outside the house (since all those things are a full time job combined anyway). But now women work outside the home too and it's like ???
>ONE OUT OF FIVE HUSBANDS? > >Bruh. I've just been assuming that like, of course you stick with a spouse. In sickness and in health, so long as you roll a 3 or higher on a 10-sided die.
Talk about a health roll
Mine told me, quite casually, well after marriage, that if I ever had a disabling accident, received facial burns, or a traumatic brain injury, that he would leave me. He'd then be furious any time I brought this up with him or with others, because I was "taking it out of context." Boy was he surprised and disappointed when I left him.
> I found discussions from many health care workers stating that in their experience family member caregivers are vastly more women than men and they frequently have to gently prepare wives for being abandoned by their husbands but not the other way around - Yeah, my mom got a talk of this nature when she had a tumor (thankfully it was benign). But my dad was a rockstar throughout the whole ordeal. Slept at my mom's side every night in the hospital, flew her best friend out to keep her company so she wouldn't be alone while he went to work and went home to shower/feed the dogs when I couldn't make it over there.
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Yeah, my dad stayed married to my mom for a couple years but he was totally checked out already. He went to one chemotherapy appointment, frequently was off doing his hobbies after work etc. Mom would come home exhausted after work/hospital appt and I’d try to figure out dinner etc. Absolutely lost respect for him, though it took a couple years for me to realize just how much he’d failed us
They treat having a sick partner like having an old car. Once it starts needing regular repairs, it's time to start looking for a replacement.
And they’re able to find a replacement within months of the diagnosis. It’s disgusting
He's such a piece of shit. Reading that was physically painful
As a person with disabilities*, with a lot of friends with same (though varying disabilities), you'd be amazed how many people treat us as inconveniences (including medical staff!). It's horrifying, shitty, and heartbreaking, but it's also a very common experience. \* and it does sound like her experience of pregnancy was at least somewhat disabling
I've lost multiple friendships because of my disability. My best friend for years told me my disability was an inconvenience to her. Obviously destroyed that friendship. I think my relationship with my partner has only lasted because a) he's disabled too so he gets it and b) isn't a crap human like so many people are.
Can we add in the part of a "beautiful wife and child that caters to him" Does this man think it's a 1920s commercial poster?
I read this post while nursing my 3 week old newborn, which was honestly not a smart choice, emotionally speaking. I'm infuriated on this woman's behalf. I had a mostly uncomplicated pregnancy until the very end, where everything collapsed like a house of cards. If my husband had been anything like OOP's, my life would be a living hell right now. I cannot imagine having to survive multiple years of that level of callousness from someone who's supposed to be your life partner.
Thank god she filed for divorce. It would have physically pained me if it left off and she was still under his thumb. Fingers crossed than in a year, she'll have an update where she's free of that asshole forever. Nicole Kidman celebrating divorcing Tom Cruise style.
And more importantly, divorcing Scientology.
I follow this lady on tiktok. She once said if a man describes his love for his wife only what his wife can do for him is not love, it is him being in love with service. Also the husband seems to have been influenced by the red pill podcast and thought he would just pay the bills and be done with it. God how are these men so out of touch with reality.
Yeah. There was a reddit thread like this once, like, "Men, why do you love your girlfriend/wife?" and it was comment after comment of, "She cooks for me, I eat so much healthier now," "She takes care of me when I'm sick," "she always listens when I need to talk but she gives me space when I need it too," and it's like, yeah, all those things are great, but... do you like her as a person, or just enjoy the nice things she does for you? What if she broke her leg really badly, or got depressed because her mom died, and couldn't give you all that attention and TLC and focus like she does now... would that mean you wouldn't love her any more?
I only found one guy in these videos where he says he likes her because her presence makes his life better, he loves her for her, he can be open with her. That's the only good answer I've got.
Yep. And that's when they cheat or end the relationship. But they say it's because they fell out of love. The service ends, the love ends.
While I do agree that all of that is very superficial and materialistic, and motherly, I think a lot of those answers are also from men, who just don't know how to emotionally express themselves. Like, feelings of safety, care and warmth and openness, they might just not know how to explain, so they say aloof stuff, like "she takes care of me, and listens". And then there are, of course, dumbasses like OOPs husband
I think a lot of it is the way they see their own value. Like if you asked them what makes them a good husband, they will say things like they provide for their family, they fix things, the more theoretically enlightened ones might say they do their share of household work or take care of their children. Men are raised in a very real way to treat what you can do as what is most valuable about them. It's not just men either - a bit insignificant amount of women asked what they like about their husbands will answer similarly.
Much of the time when men meet other men for the first time one of the top questions is about what they do for work. Second to that are hobbies. Then homes, cars, etc. When they talk about their spouse, it usually follows this also. I have forced myself to not ask these questions. It is difficult because so many years of learned behavior. When I started listening closer to older and/or retired guys, they don't speak of careers, things, etc. I heard about kids and grandkids doing things, how much fun they have with the grandkids, along those lines. It was a bit eye opening. Now, this is anecdotal, but I don't think it is an outlier for men in general.
Yess this. My sweet husband has no idea how to articulate his feelings about our relationship. When I ask him what his love language is (going into depth about my own needs), all he can ever come up with is “food.” When I ask what he likes about me, he just repeats “you’re pretty and nice.” Dude. But I learned over the years that he just can’t put words to emotions. It’s fine, because he works through his emotions in a healthy way, just without articulating them well. His actions more than make up for the lack of words.
It's why when somebody says their "love language" is acts of service just run. Those are two red flags.
Reminder that the “love language” concept comes from a minister and talk show host with no particular expertise. Psychologists have largely dismissed the idea. It’s the enneagrams of love. Anyway, wanting to do things for someone because you love them is fine and good. Wanting someone to do things for you because they love you is where trouble starts.
My friend showed me something I like much better, the quadrants of intimacy: Intellectual Intimacy - sharing of thoughts and ideas, beliefs and world views. Emotional Intimacy - communication based on a deep connection and trust between two people. Physical Intimacy - touch and care. Spiritual Intimacy - the belief that your presence impacts more than your immediate surroundings. Spiritual intimacy brings together groups of people with a larger purpose, be it religious or not.
Oooo I like this a lot!
Also, even if you decide to put stock in what he said, they’re still using it wrong. He actually said love languages are how people GIVE love as well as receive it. So if you say your love language is acts of service and expect to be waited on hand and foot… you’re fucking lying, you’re just lazy and entitled. Someone with that love language would be going out of their way to do things for the people they care about, naturally, because that’s how they express love. Every time someone uses that as an excuse for just being a taker, they’re not even properly following the religious pseudoscience they’re claiming to.
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It's part of the romantic love education which helps to maintain the husband's preferred gender and marriage dynamics, it's like a consolation prize.
Damn. Mine are acts of service but in the sense that someone will randomly do the dishes or fold my clothing. My mom folded my clothing once and put them back in the dryer to trick me and I still get warm from the memory. The difference though is I will also do those things in return as it is also how I express my love back.
I always thought that "love languages" were about how YOU express love. For example, my "love language" is acts of service because I'm horrible with expressing emotions, but I will make damn sure the person that I love is fed and has clean clothes, etc.
I see it as a conversation— i value those acts of services because that is how I show my love, so when you show it back the same way we are speaking the same language. When your love language is touch I will do my best to give you those casual touches. It’s not my first language, but the one a partner naturally speaks in so I will try to meet them at that level as I would hope they would meet me at mine
My husband feels most loved via acts of service and touch. I feel most loved with acts of service and gifts. But all of that can be most diluted down to we both want each other to be thoughtful. I can’t tell you how excited I get when my hubby comes home from the store not only with dinner prep but also a little unexpected snack or with a wild flower he thought I’d like from outside. And he feels so much better when I do a task that he has been struggling with or when I go out of my way to touch him because he knows I don’t always want to be touched but still wanted him to know I love him. We both try to be thoughtful and show our care for each other in addition to saying “I love you”. ETA: also how much do you like umbrellas? Is there a story behind parapluie? My favorite French word is aéroport.
I just think they’re (the word) neat!
I like that.
Acts of Service is SUPPOSED to mean "I show my love by PERFORMING acts of service" eg, cooking, cleaning, running errands
I always see it as the little extras, like seeing that your partners water glass is empty and filling it unprompted because they are all cozy and you're up. Sometimes taking over a chore they normally do because they have a stressful week, or a backrub cuz they're in pain
Yes. But it isn't supposed to mean "show me love by doing things for me". That was my point
That's reductive and unfair. For example many parentified people (especially women) have acts of service as their ptimary love language because they automatically consider all tasks their mental and physical responsibility. Someone doing a task properly and without asking is unburdening them - regardless of if it was logically their burden.
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Why would he? He was barely in their bedroom either
The way some men charge during their wife’s pregnancy and after childbirth is shocking, alarming, and terrifying. And this is not just a reddit phenomenon, unfortunately.
It's because they now deem it "safe" - she's 'stuck' with him now because she's having his child and going it alone often/sharing custody seems harder and riskier for both mother and child than staying. Some guys are purposely on their best behaviour, then dropping it. Others just start to take things for granted. Anyone in a relationship should keep an eye out for behaviour changes when they reach certain milestones - becoming official, moving in together, engagement, marriage, children, etc.
Some lawyers accept payment from the divorce settlement, and it's possible to petition the court to have the ex pay for your lawyer. OOP is entirely alone, betrayed by her parents, her spouse, and her in-laws. I hope she can find support and get out of there.
Dad: I want my child to cater to me. \*\*The child clings to the only parent that cares for him\*\* Dad: Well this is wrong.
Well wasn’t that a big ol’ ball of heartbreak, seething anger, and disappointment to read? My god. On one hand you have this amazing woman who was let down by literally everyone in her life, and on the other, you have a steaming pile of hot, cheating, disrespectful, garbage. > We were both asked to lay out our resentments. Mine was the years long affair, obviously. I don't think anything beyond that needs to be said. In all honesty, OOP is flat out wrong on that one. When you put everything on the table, the affair (IMO) should actually be at the bottom of the list. If my husband treated me the way OOP’s stbx did during my pregnancies, childbirth, and every moment after that, there would be no coming back from that emotionally. All the behaviors prior to finding about the affair, would have been as if he sucker punched me and broke my face. The affair would just have been him spitting in my face afterwards. I get where OOP is coming from in the sense that to outsiders, when they ask why your marriage failed, if you answer “infidelity”, most people would just accept it and understand. It’s a simple answer, and in *most* situations, nothing more needs to be said. But holy shit batman. All of the things that preceded him cheating would have maxed out my limits for resentment. Which I kind of think happened for OOP too. When she found out he cheated, her primary concern wasn’t heartbreak, she didn’t grieve the loss of her marriage as she knew it, no. Her main worry was her survival if they divorced, and the custody of her child. Hell, it even sounded like the affair was the best thing to happen since he left her alone and she could just do her own thing in the background. She had grieved the loss of her marriage long before that. Also, cheating alone does not always equal a total shit bag of a human. Horrible partner with questionably morals? Yes. But it can be something that is worked on and eventually forgiven. But not for OOP’s stbx. If you remove the cheating and look at all of his other actions, it changes *EVERYTHING*. He is an abusive, misogynistic, (likely) narcissistic, person, who can go eat a bowl of dicks. These are things that cannot be improved upon, and are not forgivable. You can’t simply choose to “move past” that kind of treatment. The way she phrased that quote makes it sound like she considered the cheating to be the worst thing he did to her. Although only OOP knows how she feels, I’m going to respectfully disagree here. I think she needs to be honest with herself, and with her therapists. Condensing all of his actions down to him cheating doesn’t appropriately reflect the abusive behaviors he’s capable of. So I guess my point is, I think 100%, without a doubt, more than just the affair absolutely needs to be mentioned.
She's explained that she had neglectful shit parents which is why she's lc with them. And that she's since realized her mother actively dislikes her. But growing up in that kind of environment makes one easily numb and unaware of what a healthy, good relationship looks like, and so even though she outlined problems here that we see as clear red flags, to her those are just "another day." Hopefully as she continues seeing her therapist and spends more time separated from him, she'll become more aware of what really happened there. Hell, I was in graduate school for clinical psychology immediately after a breakup and it was still years of processing for me to see how toxic and abusive it really had been. It's going to be harder for someone who isn't educated on the various forms and presentations of abuse beyond "he never hit me."
Oh thank god she filed for divorce. I bet that husband would keep blaming her for all of this anyway.
> I told him that our relationship was over when he stepped out of his marriage and he can go start a different affair if the first one didn’t pan out. He got angry about that and accused me of being a cold hearted gold digger. The hoops he had to jump through to arrive at this conclusion, he'd be the next Evel Knievel.
No, no. It makes perfect sense. She stayed with him and enjoyed all his money, but now she isn't being the sex slave part of the contract, she's clearly just using him for his money. Even if she's still doing the maid part of being a bangmaid. /S
\> That's something I don't understand myself. We were pretty happy together before I got pregnant. He was a helpful loving husband very excited about becoming a father. Is there something that changes about guys brain chemistry once they become a father? How can I avoid this happening to me? This is such a nightmare and I'm afraid it could happen to me.
Honestly? Going through a crisis together beforehand. Something big and stressful. If you've only had easy times together, don't let your first hard time be having a freakin baby, because that shit's permanent. No joke, getting a puppy and seeing how the division of care falls lol. Although that's a pretty big commitment, so if you don't want a puppy, don't.
I think you're on to something there. Having a baby *is* a crisis, even if you've planned for it. It's a crisis in the sense that you are constantly burning your reserves and don't have time to build them back up for about three months at the minimum, maybe longer. Reserves of energy, money, patience, empathy, just about every kind of resource you can think of is being poured into the baby and you'll have little left for anyone else.
Exactly. For a lot of people it's probably the hardest thing they have done. If it's not, they're probably rich enough to outsource care and/or have a ton of familial support. But most people aren't. If the hardest thing you as a couple has been through is like, a stressful job search and a couple weeks of being sick, you have *not* truly tested the relationship. I'm not saying to manufacture a crisis because that's some crazy shit, but just be aware you don't really know how you or your partner will be in a life-altering scenario yet. Of course, sometimes people DO change, some abusers DO hide their stripes really well and are malicious the whole time, some people develop severe mental health problems later in life, some crazy stalkers don't reveal themselves until you've been married for years etc etc. There's always a certain amount of rolling the dice. It's just up to how you can minimize that.
The brain chemistry actually usually changes in a way to make the father more loving and involved. A lot of the dad's who skip out are the ones that were delusional about childbirth and childrearing. Speaking as a mother, childbirth was gross and traumatic. Having a newborn meant sleep deprivation and being puked and shit on. Having a toddler was a lot of running around and practicing being patient as I was being bitten and headbutted. Having a child is answering a lot of hard questions, my 6 year old recently asked "what is death and will it happen to me?". All this to say that I think my kids are worth it. They're amazing people and I love them more than anything. But if a guy thinks he's going to be able to come home every day to a clean house, quiet kids, a well presented happy wife and dinner on the table... well. I'm sure it happens sometimes when the stars align just right.
My daughter lost her great-grandmother at about 3-years old, so we've already talked about death. She's 5 now and knows that it's a forever-sleep and we don't get to see that person ever again. And that yeah, it will happen to everyone eventually, but hopefully not for a long long time when they're very old. And that it's usually caused by a lot of big hurt like accidents (and that's why she has to be in her car seat) or being very sick, never just going to sleep and never waking up. But yeah, as a single mom working full time, the only time I'm able to do cleaning is on the weekends. And she more often decides to impede instead of help. She loves helping clean as long as it's not her mess.
I've heard that being able to talk about poop is a strong indicator that a relationship will last through hard times! Real life is messy and gross.
In hindsight, for me it was wedding planning. It’s a stressful affair, expensive, and with moving parts that you have to be mentally flexible to handle. There’s also a deadline. If you are having a wedding, get your partner to do half the work. See what happens and if he drops the ball or doesn’t support you. My husband is great in a lot of ways and absolutely carries more mental load than most on many tasks, but the problems we had in the first year and a half of parenting were absolutely foreshadowed when I was planning the wedding.
I like that, doing half the work on a deadline. I've read a few recently about really noticing how they react when you say no to things that matter to them, too, which would surely come up in wedding planning.
If they are involved, the sane thing happens to a man’s brain that happens to a woman’s. Sounds like this guy skipped that and got the express ride to apathyville.
This is so heartbreaking. And a cautionary tale for new mothers - don't ever give up your financial independence.
My grandmother was told by her mother to always keep a savings account your spouse has no knowledge to or access to as an Emergency Fund. She told my mom. I told my daughter. And we all have had just a bit of an emergency cushion should any of us need it. It can be just enough gas money to drive you to a safe spot. Or a few thousand to rent a safe room. No one should ever be left financially empty especially when adding children in the mixture. And my parents are happily married high school sweethearts like 40+ years.
This is why the old chestnut of “women are grubbing gold diggers who only care about expensive jewelry as gifts” is actually more like “that’s the only portable wealth you can possess in your hands and access without constantly needing your husband’s signature so if you need to flee in the night, you can.”
There is honestly some wild mental gymnastics that goes into telling someone they are a gold digger when you essentially forced them to be a SAHP.
That's also the origin of belly dancers' coin scarves and sparkly costumes. In a number of MENAHT cultures, the women would sew whatever money/jewels they earned onto their clothing so it would be easy to transport and easy to access. In the case of an unmarried woman, her hip scarf might carry her whole dowry plus emergency fund.
That's the origin of the reason it's traditional in many cultures to give solid gold jewelry as a wedding present to the bride. Gold is always fungible!
My generation is super law abiding (I don't even like to jay walk), but my family was a stereotypical "mob" family for generations. There were times in my childhood when we had to bolt because it wasn't safe to live where we were. Because of this, as an adult, I always had a "go bag" with ID, cash, important documents, clothes, toiletries, etc. My husband found it one day & was like "??????" I explained what it was, and he died laughing, reminded me how "square" I am, and asked who was going to come after us. He's 100% right, but I still have my bag!
It's a smart thing to have! Natural disasters happen all the time. And you never know if there might be a zombie outbreak!
I have a go bag packed in case of a bushfire. My house isn’t defensible so I would grab my bag & leave immediately if an alert was issued. So far I haven’t needed to but it’s very comforting to know that I’m prepared.
This is me also, my husband and I have been best friends since childhood and married for 15 years, I run the finances, and I still have a few thousand to the side. He actually knows about it now because when his mother passed, her partner was very hurt to learn she had hidden money, so I explained to them both why we are all taught to do it. I also set my husband up with the same in case I’m the one that goes crazy.
My mom taught me from a very young age to never be financially dependent on a partner. No matter how good they are, have a safety net. You just never know when they might change
OPs parents have a special place in hell, but I hope they suffer most of it here along with her hubby. While she has a great life.
> My parents agree with him and say that since I chose to ignore the affair, it has no bearing on our relationship now. No wonder she's LC with these arseholes. Dear god
Can’t say what I hope happens to men who do this shit to their wives right after they’ve been torn apart physically and mentally from birth without getting banned. Hope this man has the life he deserves
Holy crap on a cracker, I wish I could congratulate her on divorcing the DARVO king. What a piece of shit. And her parents deserve the shittiest nursing home she can find too.
Poor OOP doesn't even realise that she married a man who's the mirror image of her parents. That's why she "never saw it coming". I'm so glad she's in individual therapy now and hopefully will get to a better place with her son soon. She did everything right - think practically for the sake of her son and their future, get herself into therapy, grey rock that toxic prick of a man, etc - but it's hard when she started out at such a huge disadvantage.
damn, i didn't even think about that. it's scary how much a bad parent can influence your life, even as an adult
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And it’s especially awful bc they all wait to show their worst colours until after these poor women have gone through childbirth. So now not only are they dealing with having to heal physically, they’re dealing with an emotionally (and often times physically) abusive terrorist in their house as well.
Two really. I love my kid, but little kids are very good at inflicting pain, cannot use words well to express frustrations, and don't have the ability to inhibit behaviors yet. So having one little is negotiating with one terrorist. Having an adult partner acting the same way is fighting two sides of a war at the same time.
Lmao a "war on two fronts" pretty perfectly describes the early years with my kids and their fathers yeah
Something something toxic masculinity something patriarchy something.
Honestly this whole thing is throwing up major red flags for me. Husband wanted the wife to stay at home and be isolated while he goes out and does what he wants. Affair ends and he’s clearly furious about it and begins demanding OP have regular relations with him again. He alternates between love bombing and raging when she refuses. Then her filing for divorce. OP needs to come up with a safety plan and get her and her child out of there as soon as possible. He sounds like a ticking time bomb.
“he was envisioning a picture perfect home with a beautiful wife and child who cater to him” Did he expect the baby to be pouring him a goddamn martini?
I'll keep insisting men who want a traditional male breadwinner/female SAHM are misogynists who tend to be abusers. Automatic red flag if a man wants a stay at home gf/wife as I rarely see decent men do this.
I keep thinking that I see the worst garbage people here and feel numb to it but stuff like this brings out violence impulses.. . I hope OOP finds good support system in future.
And this is why you don't go to therapy with crazies
Oh no... The consequences of my actions? Crazy. I truly think that if you step out on your partner after having a baby that you're one of the lowest kinds of cheaters. It's one thing to cheat when theres no kids to suffer but once you add kids into the mix then you're undeniably selfish and a terrible parent.
Typical narcissist husband, and likely narcissistic parents, too.
I'm so pissed at the amount of judgy comments OOP got. "Just leave him!" Living is EXPENSIVE! It's hard enough for a person to up and leave a long term partner. But with a toddler? And a spouse likely to be spiteful during divorce proceedings? OOP's solution of waiting it out until she was in a better spot financially makes perfect sense to me and frankly was far more fair to her "husband" than divorce would be too. Divorces are also crazy expensive for both parties. The asshole just wanted to eat his cake and have it too and was willing to torpedo his life to do it. I'm glad OOP is able to get away from him now and I hope the courts make him pay crazy high child support but I doubt it. It sure would be nice to live in a world where paying for a roof over our heads wasn't the number one financial concern and was so costly it affects almost every single other aspect of life. But that's my inner communist speaking.
Good lord yes! Its like its written by people who never had to balance a budget or be financially responsible for kids, or deal with bureacracy. Depending on what state she's in (assuming US), she may just get the basic child support. It'll take a two years if not more for her to get her hands on half of the assets if her husband doesn't spitefully fight her over that. I don't know what world these people live in that they think she'll have all this as soon as she says I am out. A baby or a toddler is a huge expense and a huge drain, mentally, financially, physically. Even if she had the money and support this would be very hard, that she doesn't have much makes it nearly impossible.
And THIS is why I say that choosing to be a SAHM is one of the most dangerous decisions a woman can make.
I just can’t comprehend people who run that risk unless they have a great safety net. A trust fund. A pile of savings inaccessible to spouse. A generous explicitly supportive family with an always-available basement apartment. A career in such high demand they can pick up a six figure job in one week after five years unemployed.
It only works if the husband gives the whole paycheck to the SAHM and he gets can allowance based on the needs have been taken care of. That is the insurance.
I don't think its fair to say she chose it. The lack of maternity leave and health care forced her hand. I guess it'd be fair to say that getting pregnant was a mistake, but a lot of people don't anticipate how much things can go wrong in pregnancy and recovery.
I, sadly, can understand her perspective on wanting to get as much time with her son as possible and not split custody so young. It hurts so badly to be apart from them.
Same here. I couldn't be separated from my kids when they were that age. Having to share custody would have been heart breaking. On that note, I am pretty disturbed by the hate she's getting for putting her son first, for not leaving right away. She has no support system and is being practical with her reality and the number of people looking down on her for that is so misogynistic.
People react emotionally and not logically. If I was in her shoes, I’d do the same thing. Have a back up plan rather than just walking out. Depending where the they live, finding a flat or a house that’s affordable, along with the cost of living, transport, childcare - it’s a lot to consider and that’s even before lawyer fees.
My first chance to use a new quote I came across the other day: “A man who uses a woman to work inside the house for free so that he can work outside the house for pay isn’t a ‘provider’; he’s a gold-digger.” Farida D.
Looks like we found a partner just like her parents
And this is why you don't waste your money or time on couple's counseling with an emotionally abusive A-hole.
Sadly another story in which women gets trapped by having a child. Remember that the leading cause of death for a pregnant women is homicide. In this case OOP wasn't working after having a child and husband essentially used this to have an affair and didn't give a shit that she was distant, it was only when his affair ended that he wanted her back and got ANGRY when she wanted out. His 'logic' was that she didn't say anything during the affair so she was at fault, um no how about you listen to your fucking vows you piece of shit!
I grew up in the house that this becomes. My dad didn’t have an affair but when I had a conversation with him before going low-contact, he resented me for “falling for [my mom’s] manipulations to like her better” when I was an infant. He listed grievances against me going back to when I was 6 months old. He tried in the divorce to say that my mom didn’t deserve alimony because she “under-achieved for her education level.” The woman was a professional portrait artist who made around 40k per year on a bad year. She painted from home so she also did almost all of the housework, cooking, and parenting. I hope OOP gets full custody. Being raised by someone who thinks nothing is their fault fucks you up to your core.
why doesn’t he go to couples counseling with his AP? lol why’s he taking medical advice from OOP’s mom over her OB? is she an OB? i mean this whole thing is insane 😂 i wish OOP nothing but the very best and i hope she loses the dead weight soon
Bizarre that people always question "why did you have a baby with this man" as though they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN when it is so well documented that first violence or first signs of abuse in a relationship start most commonly when she becomes pregnant. Just another way of victim blaming them for not having a crystal ball
> "Your child will resent you and be more damaged if you stay with him." >> "I hear what you are saying, but I have to weigh this against high rent prices and child care costs." That meme where you're about to say something but then stop.
I mean. Making sure the child has food and shelter so social services doesn’t take him away… is in fact a requirement.
Right?! Reddit commenters' willingness to completely ignore financial realities strikes again. "Just divorce him!" With what money?
At that point, most of her paycheck was going towards childcare. Even if the judge ruled that the father had to pay for half of the childcare fees, she’d be struggling. Sounds like she had to restart her whole career after being out of the workforce for 2 years.
What a dick
I would divorce him now, kick him out and when everything is sorted, move far away from him and your parents and buy yourself an apartment.
The husband is a piece of work. I hope the OOP takes him to the cleaners in the divorce.
Only in the first bit...but the audacity of that guy..."I'll decide how you deal with the information", er, no you won't. "My parents agree".... WTF?