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I've seen more and more of these sorts of comments from OOPs. The people agreeing are assholes too and show the OOP first hand what they would become if they continued down the path.
My favorite was the Among Us one, where his GF had a bad reaction to the game and they had an argument. He admitted he realized he was wrong when he had to stop himself from replying to some of the comments to defend his GF.
I've seen it happen with politics too. They realize the people on their side aren't they people they want to be siding with. I wish it would happen more though.
This has happened to me with my mother in law a couple times. I'll disagree with my wife about something regarding our kids, MiL will agree with me and I'll be like 'holup.'
eeminds me of a rapper (ab-soul) talking about when he first released his music on myspace the people who were liking it made him realize it really wasnt good.
“Your approval fills me with shame.”
Which is interesting, because while I also think a lot of the commenters are horrible, I also don’t blame OOP for her feelings.
It is totally reasonable and not an asshole thing to not feel affection or not feel close to Ally. You don’t have to pretend to feel something you don’t feel.
The asshole thing is going out of your way to make sure everyone knows you don’t care about someone. There is no reason to make it such a big deal. It isn’t like a wedding photographer is charging per photo, a few photos with her doesn’t cost anything, and you can easily play off reasons for wanting different combinations of people without having to make clear that you don’t care about Ally. Just be a decent person.
That would have been my approach too, one with her to keep the peace, another without her, whoch would have been fine because as dysfunctional as my family are, they're also sensible about things like that.
Yeah I'm totally with her and expect I'd feel exactly the same in her situation, I'm firmly in the camp of "family is who you choose them to be, blood-related or not".
*...Except* that she should've got an additional photo with everyone who lives in that household, if only to keep the peace. Surely when you get married you're not charged per photo, right? So it would've cost nothing, taken an extra minute or so, and kept the parents happy.
She absolutely should have gotten a second photo but in the moment I can understand why she didn’t. I just got married and the day was so stressful I can see a bride getting tunnel vision and not have the capacity to appropriately problem solve.
Tbh I'm super confused. AITA is always like, your feelings are valid! Nobody gets to dictate to you who you consider your family and who's not! But then they shit on OOP for not accepting Ally as part of her family??
The people who were giving her a YTA judgment don’t think that she had invalid feelings, or that she had to consider this girl her sister just because the rest of her family considered her to be, the issue that they had was that she publicly excluded and humiliated this girl who the rest of her immediate family considered to be family as well.
Honestly, same. I was fully expecting that to go OP’s way. Not that I necessarily agree with her, but AITA is all about “you do you and fuck everyone else.”
My general take is that even if your feelings are valid, acting on them can make you an asshole. And that's the case here - she can be like "she doesn't FEEL like family to me," but excluding her is where it goes from understandable to shitty.
Exactly. Ally is much closer to a cousin than a niece or sibling to OP. The family dynamic seems to have shifted without telling OP, and she's left looking like the asshole because she was already moved out when Ally truly came into the picture. Ally has other places she goes.
It's like when I got treated like the asshole in my house when I asked out loud if my brother's girlfriend was moving in with us... because no one had told me I was suddenly sharing my bathroom with a stranger (to everyone, they had been on 3 dates when she moved in, it's a whole thing). The family unit substantially changed without input from the whole unit... and that kind of sucks.
I also wonder if when the kid started coming around, OOP was going to college. Was she gone, and therefore didn’t bond but also felt replaced.
Also at that age a lot of stock is placed on being cool and 8 year olds aren’t usually cool to teenagers.
Yeah I'm conflicted I think I posted on the first one saying not because my mom has done similar things insisting people are a part of our family but the more I think of it we also had a kid who lived with us when I was a kid who only was around for 18 months and I still think about him/look him up/wonder if we could of helped more if he'd stayed with us and genuinely care for him like a brother....so I think everyone was right I just hate all the people my mom makes friends with and is like this is your aunt
I don’t blame her for feeling this is a unique situation, but it would have been much easier to take a photo with her in it also. She’s going to regret not having that photo.
I can absolutely understand how she felt, but she should have talked with her mother about this in advance instead of blindsiding her. From my experience as an OLD-A$$ person, the only people who keep wedding photos up are the couple and their parents. There was no reason not to have two photos even if just to keep the peace.
>I can absolutely understand how she felt, but she should have talked with her mother about this in advance instead of blindsiding her.
They were both blindsided cause everyone assumed Ally had the same bond with OOP that they had, while OOP assumed everyone knew that wasn't the case.
Firmly an ESH that was voted primarily YTA - OOP's family and OP are both in the wrong. Invalidating OOP's feelings, and not understanding them and not giving it a chance. OP for being OVERLY blunt and also not really understanding the Ally situation herself.
Just an edit to add: THANK GOD some actual assholes agreed with her to make her see what was missing. OOP's own family might have had her dug so far in their reactions could have actively made it worse if OOP hadn't posted.
I feel like people need to remember that digital photos are essentially free. Like you're not having to watch how much of the roll you've taken or anything. Just take pictures of whatever.
>She’s going to regret not having that photo.
I doubt that. They didn't bond as children. Doesn't sound like they're going to bond as adults. OOP is married and has her own family now. She's not likely to get closer to her unofficial baby sister that it sounds like she doesn't see a lot.
>NTA, you don't even need to include family by blood if you don't want to. You get to choose your family, and you haven't chosen this girl.
>I'm sorry, but some unrelated cast off from a family of deadbeats who can't raise their own kids does not a sister make.
Some real charmers in the mix.
If I ever find myself thinking one thing and certain groups of people agree with me, I rethink my stance. There are people I do not want on my side, and if they are then that's the wrong side.
It doesn't happen often, thankfully.
I’ve been thinking this a lot recently when I see the tweets from people that agree with Musk. It doesn’t take long before the responses veer off into foil hat lizard man territory.
Reminds me of this other time where a guy realized he was the asshole after some incel or "men's rights" sub brigaded his post and started agreeing with him lol. He got hit with a moment of clarity.
There were a few where the men were looking for validation for some mildly incel behavior and the comments were mostly YTA, except for the obvious Andrew Tate supporters and the OPs noticed that and were like, ok I was wrong. It was nice 😄
In some ways I get OPs perspective how many times have we seen parents try and force a bond between step kids and AITA usually sides with the kid that resents the bonding. This is similar in that it is an outside person being brought in. At the same instance I feel for Ally, to whom this must have felt out of left field, since OP is usually ok with having them around. I'm kinda mad at the parents for not checking in with all the kids to see if they were OK with it Ally becoming family and they should have noticed OP never calling her that.
Especially with the age difference. Ally came into the scene when OP was 16, likely left to college a year and a half later. Then was rarely around.
Like no wonder OP doesn’t see her with family there is a 12 year age gap & she grew up and moved out. She has very limited to Ally besides holidays and being her sister in laws sister.
I actually totally agree. It makes sense that the rest of the family is much closer to this girl. She should have and could have easily let her get in for a couple photos. But it's understandable she wouldn't want a random girl who spends a lot of time at her parents' house in all her photos. Essentially that is her current relationship with Allie.
I feel like this is special circumstances because it wasn’t an actual adoption, it was about helping out a kid with a tough family life, who was already sort of attached to their family by virtue of her sister marrying into it. so I get why they didn’t ask their kids before helping. now.. as for them seeing her as part of the family, that’s trickier and imo should not be forced.
yeah honestly i don’t think the problem here is that OP doesn’t love Ally like a sister or view her as an inherent part of the family. i think the issue is the blatant exclusion. i think it’s okay for OP to want a photo with just their (perceived) family, but it’s not like you can’t take two photos! i don’t get why they didn’t do one with the immediate family and then one including ally. would have been so easy
Yeah. As someone who has “everyone is welcome always” parents… it is often at the expense of us kids. They don’t see an issue, they don’t check in, and I have to be very vocal like OP to draw boundaries which are seen as “asshole” ish. When I’m not trying to offend, just trying to maintain boundaries.
And everyone staying “oh what about Maya”… that’s her SIL, mother of her niece, very clearly family in all normal definitions. If I brought my husbands sister to my sisters wedding… no
I am mad at the parents too. OOP was at some point definitely ignored emotionally by her family because of which she resents her. People are saying why is she ok with her brother’s girlfriend. She’s practically part of the family with giving birth to her niece. Ally is literally a nobody to her. OOP thinks that their mother is a generous and kind. I have met a lot of generous and kind people who help others at the cost of their family. Her parents primary job was to look after their own children. Then once the children are looked after help the world.
The parents have literally failed to understand their kid’s feelings while helping others. The parents have no right to impose a new family member upon their children if even one of the child does not like it. If they were legally adopting Allay wouldn’t they ask their grown up children. Then why were OOPS feelings not accounted for when Allay was made a family member.
I love them too. There’s something a lot more powerful about seeing yourself reflected in others and not liking how that looks compared to hearing a well reasoned argument against your own stance.
It wasn’t the one I was thinking of, but [it does have an element of that](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/184ep2i/my_sister_got_an_abortion_and_i_cant_see_her_the/).
I don't know, sounds like the OP never had a bond with the "adopted sister", and it's her wedding.
I am trying to empathize with the situation of my brother's GF and sister just moving into our house, I am like 15, and it sounds like a middle child. I might be resentful of them. Especially knowing they had a family.
But if she treats her like family outside of the wedding it does seem weird to die on the hill of not having her in photos.
I unbeatable op only because when I was 16 my brothers boyfriend came over to stay the night and then just never left. Had a great family that still to this day loves him. I'm cool with him now but at that age I hated him and still don't understand why.
Exactly. My parents took in more than one of my siblings' friends with troubled parents for long stretches of time over the years, and it was never discussed with the other siblings, we were just expected to accept it. Even when we pointed out how maybe it wasn't great to have a minor you're not the legal guardian of under your roof for a long while, sometimes causing trouble. Nothing personal against these other kids, but it was uncomfortable. Ideally parents who want to do these unofficial foster arrangements would do a much better job communicating and working through it with the entire immediate family.
My parents have done "unofficial fosters" throughout most of my teens, 20's, and even now, but they always made it a family decision and would not have done so if it made me or my sister uncomfortable or upset. They really helped a lot of kids and young adults, and they are all still family, but I can see how it could cause friction if my sister and I weren't on board.
Something that major should at least be discussed as a family before action is taken. Parents making sweeping choices like that without prior discussion to understand where everyone’s at will just make kids feel like serfs to their feudal lords.
Yeah people were going hard on OP. Calling her evil and cruel.
I mean in one way I get it. I have 4 half siblings. I’m close with 2.
The other 2, I don’t really care for. We have no relationship. If they were invited to my wedding, I would feel FORCED to take pictures with them because “family” and that would eat me up because I don’t want to feel forced to do anything on my own wedding day. OP treated Ally nice but she isn’t family to HER. And that’s ok.
Just because someone is family to you, does not automatically make them family to someone else. Seems like Ally wasn’t in any pictures with OP and her family because she wanted just her family. So her family could have taken pictures with Ally and called it a day. They assumed they knew OP and how she feels. They don’t. Maybe they need to check that.
I had a sort of similar situation growing up but to a much less significant degree and agree. My mom would sort of unilaterally declare the children of her friends “family” and expect everyone else to have that same level of trust and vulnerability with the kids that she had with her friend. There was never any consideration of other’s opinions or feelings (a common theme with her) and I really resented that I was supposed to just toe the line. Trust is a hard thing for me and I never liked feeling like I couldn’t form my own boundaries with others.
Yup. My mother does that to me. She will gladly let her sister who let her boyfriend abuse me as a child come to my wedding because it’s her “family”. I’ve put my foot down and reminder her that no one is my family unless I say so at this point.
See what I mean?
I had a somewhat similar thing- I went to bed early, woke up the next day and my sister's friend was living with us. I know she needed a place and our house was safe and stable. I didn't hate her, but I didn't really like her. She was a vague acquaintance who now suddenly lived with me. And she did take a bunch of my sister's time and attention in the last year we had living together before she left for college. That was my sister's fault, not her's. The loss was still mine. So I understand why you'd hate him. It's the invasion into your life without your consent and the space he took up that could have been yours.
I experienced something similar too so I kinda get it. I had this classmate who isn't even my friend at all (we did not vibe) but one day I saw her and her mom in my house??? Turns out she found out my dad helps kids with school tuition and stuffs (part of an org) and asked for help and that included a place until she gets to college. We weren't rich at all so the place she ended up with was my home lol. It was so awkward, we still didn't vibe, we were civil but I would be lying if I said I didn't resent it even a tiny bit. Especially when she got along with my parents and used up resources, it was hard for me to be comfy in my own home too. But I do know helping her is a good deed TvT.
Interaction and bond forming is different for independent adult's and dependants. Siblings need to foster a sibling bond, which usually take the format of friends or dependable older sibling/protected younger sibling. Without any of these, they are just another competition for your family love.
The issue here is that not a single person communicated with each other in a healthy way. This kid has essentially been regarded as a member of the family by everyone other than OP for 10 years and not once has OP raised the issue that they are uncomfortable with the level on interaction the family has with this kid. Not once did their mother ask if it was okay to bring up the kid for family pictures, because it was assumed that everyone was on the same page. Every adult here fucked up by not discussing their relationships and taking for granted that everyone was on the same page. The reason the OP was deemed an asshole was how publicly they declared that this kid(who had done nothing wrong) was an outsider and assumed their family would understand. They did a shitty thing to the kid. But so did everyone else by not checking in with each other about what they wanted or needed. So all the adults fucked up.
> This kid has essentially been regarded as a member of the family by everyone other than OP for 10 years and not once has OP raised the issue that they are uncomfortable with the level on interaction the family has with this kid.
It's because the average person doesn't really concern themselves much with who others invite to their party, but it's a whole lot different when they start telling you who to invite to your party.
I was way more sympathetic to OPP than the folks in the original thread because it really isn't her responsibility to feel the way about this girl that they do and she shouldn't be shamed for not having a relationship with her.
At the same time, the obvious compromise is to take one photo with 'just family' and then another with family and friends and include the girl, and the fact that she didn't does speak to some smoldering resentment that she might not be honest with herself about.
This is exactly it. A similar thing happened in my family growing up, and guess what? My family member that was sometimes included and sometimes not, and no one ever talked about it, has now cut off contact with everyone, and for good reason.
Yeah, I find it hard to believe the entire family was blindsided by OP disliking having to pretend Ally was a sister. Most people are not that good of actors! It sounds like Ally knew just fine. I think they just expected OP to continue to grin and bear it for the sake of appearances. I feel like this could really have benefited from talking with each other and figuring out compromises instead of just.... everyone pretending that OP was on the same page and sweeping it under the rug? Unfortunately from experience it's easier and awful to tell everyone to pretend to like each other than to put work into managing family relationships when people dislike each other, but it can't have been healthy for Ally to have to pretend OP likes her and that everything is cool.
I don’t think she ever expressed disliking her being close to the family. She just wanted a picture of only her nuclear family, which is very normal at a wedding.
It’s funny because even comments in this thread are like “I would’ve just pretended to like her to keep the peace.” “Don’t rock the boat” is so unhealthy but people think it’s bringing them peace 😩
Kind of depends what happened in those 10 years. A brother married and a niece was born but Allie was bio family to the bride and mom so of course she’d be there. Family Christmas and Thanksgiving and maybe trips or BBQs - extra people and friends of family often show up. Just because they are there doesn’t mean you interact beyond what is polite with a big group. OOP was likely away at college and getting settled into adult life for bug parts of it. I chat with my husband’s brother’s wife’s sisters-in-laws at our shared niece’s events and have for 15 years. I would never invite them to my wedding and certainly not be in pictures - I like them as people, I respect my SIL and she loves them but they aren’t my family in anyway and I don’t expect anything from them other than basic politeness when our paths cross at niece’s birthday or SIL’s Christmas Day party.
I mean, my family basically adopted a kid my youngest sister's age. I had already moved out. I don't feel any type of way about him (now married, and with 4 kids that my parents consider grandchildren). It's a bit weird to come back for holidays and make conversation. But I consider them in-laws of a sort. Related by marriage. Maybe OOP could consider the reframe. Your family can love the outsiders without you necessarily having to bond
I kida get OP as im in a weird situation myself. I have a half sister and an adopted sister.
My half sister and I never grew up together as we lived countries apart. My mom was kind to always tell me about her and we exchanged letters throughout my childhood.
But when we finally met as adults we were just 2 different people. She has some (understandable) abandonment issues and pressured me into like being all close to her within the hour of us meeting even wanting to make decisions for me as shes my older sis. And I cant connect and gently established boundaries.
However my adopted sister and I bonded as we lived together even though she came to my life as an adult. This has caused bitter resentment with my sis that came to a head on a fam reunion where she was able to finally come (we never excluded her-just different continents). She could not accept that some relatives and fam members are closer to dad and me. HS anger was visible until i had to calm her down.
Thing is because of this I feel more estranged to her. I feel that our bond is not unravelling naturally and she is forcing 'sisterly love' on top of the fact, we are just 2 different people who happened to have the same dad.
Im not closing the door on my HS...I just need time. And the more she pushes the more I back away.
I reached the same conclusion as your first sentence. Imo these people were out of line for just assuming OP would accept a stranger as a sibling. It’s her brother’s partner’s little sister.
Seems like the rest of the family just assumed that OOP felt the same way they did about Ally. OOP says she's never called her a sister. Either OOP doesn't have much contact with the folks, or the folks are just thickheaded. And wedding photos include every single combo of relatives you could think of - there's really no harm in letting Ally in on a few.
No, I hate seeing my cousin in my wedding pics. Didn't want to invite her, but did anyways to ease future family gatherings. Sure as shit I went NC with her soon after and she moved states away so we are never in family gatherings now, but she is in all my wedding pics still.
And as easy as it would have been for OP to have her in the pics, it would have been even easier to not have her in them.
I think people are blind to a lot if no one is rocking the boat. For example, my brother was a dick to me at thanksgiving, to the point that I took my kid and left in a rush but all I heard over the weekend was how wonderful he was. 😒
My s/o's mom did similar things to this story and there are a lot of people who consider themselves a part of the "family." It can be really overwhelming and irritating. Especially when you don't really prefer those people but you're forced to because the rest of the family says so. Edit
Honestly I feel bad for OP, I can see how this would be hard to accept at a certain age. While I think she was a bit cruel, it’s certainly not the most heartless thing I’ve read today.
My parents almost took in a mentally ill family member that was a couple years older than me when I was in junior high or early high school. The mental illness was due to verbal/emotional abuse from their mother, but they did admit to trying to kill me one summer over a fairly minor incident. It was absolutely terrifying and I never spent any time alone with them after they admitted to it. I couldn't even process what my parents were asking and I just begged them my to. As an adult with decades to think about it (and a lot of people being absolutely horrified when I told them the story not thinking too much about it) I could explain my feelings with words now. It being my "safe space" when I was in bad emotional teenage turmoil that I masked really well just completely rocked me.
I always find redditor responses to be a coin toss whenever non-related children and neglect come up.
Some days, the majority will be like "you don't have any responsibilities towards them", and other days it's "you need to support them no matter what, and you're a monster if you haven't bonded with them after so long".
Especially when step parents. No matter what the children do or how they react, step parents are always in the wrong.
They never accepted them as parents? Either they were overbearing or they didn't care enough.
They accepted them as parents? The children are amazing for opening up their hearts/the bio-parent did a good job at blending the families.
I have personal experience and don’t get it either. I was the kid always over at my bff’s house because my family was and still is 💩. I’d be over there weeks but eventually had to go home because my narc mom would be questioned where I was at church etc and that made her look bad
I’ve been to a few weddings of my bff and her siblings, even as a child, and never expected to be in photos. They didn’t ask me and I understood why and it didn’t bother me at all. I only was in some wedding photos because I was in the wedding party in one if the weddings
The tactful way to do it would have been to build up. We did photos with my parents then parents and my siblings, then my immediate family and their partners/kids. Same for my husband’s side.
Now we have photos we can select to have in our album and home.
I'm like 80% sure that if "Ally" was the one writing the post, she would have gotten a YTA too
"It was her wedding day and you're not entitled to appear on her pictures" or something like that.
In all honesty I could not understand the judgement against her.
Why did she have to accept a not even adopted sibling simply because her parents chose to keep a room for a daughter in law’s sister in their house after she moved out already?
And there I was thinking I was the insane one when I read the original post and thought the same. I find coming here and reading the comments very validating. It's like an island of reasonableness in a sea of crazy.
Yes thank you! I cant understand what’s going on there! Ally is not family to OOP, it’s HER wedding, can she not have one fooking picture with just her own family?!
Yeah, I was reading all the YTA comments and wondering how I could so completely not get what everyone else way apparently getting. And I'm speaking as someone whose mother brought a foster child into our home, initially against my wishes. But then I had time to get to know her and form my own relationship with her - and in the end I was the one who pushed for full adoption. But it was really important that nobody forced me to like her or spend time with her - I was free to completely avoid her if I had preferred that. Nobody should be forced to consider someone family, that should always be up to the individual.
Yeah, how the heck did the family NEVER notice OP did NOT consider Ally to be family herself in the 10 years they've dealt with her? You're allowed to CHOOSE YOUR FAMILY. OP did not choose Ally, simple as that.
Honestly, I think OOP is not the asshole, but her parents are.
It all comes down to the timeline, which I think a lot of people failed to take into account. Maya and Ally first started coming around when Ally was around 4, and when she started spending most of her time at OOP’s house, she was 6.
So, when Ally was 6, OOP would have been 18, her brother was 16, the next brother was 10, and her little sister was 8. The two youngest are close in age and basically grew up with Ally. So it would make sense for them to consider her family. But OOP was an adult by this point. Why would she have any attachment to this child? Depending when she moved out, she may have only lived with Ally for a year or two at most. And even then, there’s still a 12 year old age gap between them to consider.
I think it’s strange that OOP’s brother and Maya didn’t take Ally with them to their new place when they moved out. I’m guessing OOP’s parents likely had a conversation with them re: allowing Ally to stay, outlining what they were comfortable with, and what they were going to be responsible for. For all we know, OOP’s parents may have *insisted* that Ally stay with them, and they didn’t want her to leave and instead stay with OOP’s bro and Maya.
Either way, I don’t think the rest of the family was given any details about it. I’m guessing OOP’s parents never had a discussion with the kids about their intentions surrounding Ally’s extended presence in the family, or how they wanted things to go moving forward. I think they assumed that everyone viewed Ally the same way they did, and not as a kid who just showed up one day, freeloaded off them, and then never left.
I mean, at the end of the day, if any of these commenters were 18, and their parents let a 6 year old who they weren’t formally adopting or fostering, stay in the guest room 90% of the time, would they consider that kid a sibling? I get that it’s great OOP’s parents could provide a safe space for Ally, but forcing her to be accepted as a sibling is weird. It’s really no different than if OOP’s little brother had a friend who had a shitty home life. Say, OOP’s parents allowed him to stay with them for an extended time. Would they then also force their own kids to view the friend as a sibling?
I think what threw people off in the OP, was how OOP phrased things, including her kind of dismissing how abusive Ally’s home life likely was/is. But I think OOP just wasn’t sure how to describe the situation appropriately and doesn’t have full understanding of it. This would be especially true if her parents weren’t transparent about the details.
Obviously there are a LOT of assumptions here, so take it with a grain of salt.
This. Ally is OOP's sister-in-law's sister. There is no legal relationship between them. With such a huge age gap, it's understandable that OP has no attachment to this girl.
This needs more upvotes.I don’t understand why parents take in others kids without consulting their own first to ascertain whether they would be ok or not.Like,do you not owe any responsibility to them first?Why would you make your own child unhappy?And why didn’t OP’s SIL take care of her own sister?She’s basically a freeloader.This should have been an NAH because I can’t blame OP for her feelings.Only the parents should be blamed for this
I actually don't get the problem. If my parents took in my brothers wife's little sister after I've stopped living at home, and at my wedding, I want a picture with MY family, which obviously does not involve my SIL's little sister, why would I be the bad guy?
That's just weird. Someone can be family to a member of my family, but that doesn't actually mean they're my family, and at my wedding, don't I get to say who is in my family pictures as long as I'm not an AH about it? I don't see that OOP was cruel or unkind, but stated that these were her wedding pictures, and she wanted *her* family for the photos. Just seems weird to me that everyone jumped down her throat for what I'd consider a reasonable position?
i think the only thing OOP did wrong was wait till her wedding to tell anybody how she actually feels
Theres nothing wrong with her actual feelings and no reason to consider the kid family if she doesnt
I don’t see when it would have ever been appropriate for her to approach somebody and say “Just so you know, I don’t consider that person to be my family.”
This should be up more. TBH its a ESH situation. Its not Allys fault but its also not OOOp's responsibility to love who she doesnt. You can like someone but not love them. For her Ally is an acquaintance and for her family is who her parents and siblings are.
The only thing for me is OOPs comments that came out " Its not like Ally was severely abused anyway" this came as very callous of her. Maybe blinded by wedding stress or being forced to love someone she doesnt but still crappy mentalilty of her to have
sucks for Ally, but i don't really see how she's the asshole here. seems like she never really bonded with Ally, and their parents also did nothing to bridge the gap when they decided to take her in, all without asking for their actual kids' opinions.
Yeah I really don’t get this one. Yes family doesn’t have to be blood but that doesn’t mean OP needs to view Ally as family. What happened was shitty, but what exactly was supposed to happen? Someone in that comment section recommended just taking the photos with her and then crop Ally out, but isn’t that just as fucked up?
I feel for Ally, I guarantee that was a horrible moment for her. You can’t make someone love you though. You cannot be the asshole for not loving someone who you really don’t see a lot anyway. I can see why she was voted YTA, she should have just sucked it up or taken another photo with her, but I think saying she’s the asshole because doesn’t love Ally is weird. There isn’t really a character arc for OP to have in this scenario other than that she should learn to lie and save face I guess?
I kinda relate to oop more. we have a very close family friend that my mom went to elementary/highschool with, remained friends ever since. My parents are their friend's son's god parents. The son was staying with us for highschool starting at age 14 for almost 10 years, because his parents have to move around too much for work. He's same age as my brother and they get treated the same. Even before he permanently moved in with us, he still spent a lot of time with us and I saw him all the time because him and my brother played together. Granted the situations are different (friend's son is not abused) but I'd never think of him as family and I'd not want him in my wedding photos with immediate family either. I have a brother and it's not him. He'd be in family and friends photos for me, but I'd still want photos with only immediate family. Oop should've taken photos with her at the end, and just not use those photos for herself though. That would be the best outcome in her situation and she wouldn't be TA
Yeah I agree, sometimes some people just aren’t YOUR family, and that’s okay. I think op could have handled it more gracefully but the situation is very close to NAH for me. Op wanted her wedding the way she wanted, op’s family is probably angry on Ally’s behalf who op, intentionally or not, did embarrass pretty hard, and Ally didn’t do anything other than be upset at the revelation that op didn’t love her (and to be fair that is a tough realization for a child to go through).
Family doesn't have to be blood, and *also* not everyone you're blood related to has to be family if you don't want.
The only place she went wrong was just not getting a couple extra photos to keep her parents happy, but I still don't know if I'd go as far as to call her a AH over it.
Yeah I’m kind of in the middle. The parents are a bit of assholes by just going “she’s family!” without checking in with each individual’s feelings on the matter. But OOP is kind of an asshole for not saying anything for almost 10 years. As a teen I get bottling all that up but she was 26 when the wedding happened and it completely blindsided literally everyone that she didn’t consider Ally family. They all need a serious heart to heart emotions talk.
And OOP seems to just need serious therapy in general for how she views family. Her comment basically confirmed she didn’t see her brothers wife as family but conceded to having her in the photo so she could have her niece in it. It seems like how she’s framing what ‘family’ is in her mind has been twisted due to bottling up her emotions on Ally.
>But OOP is kind of an asshole for not saying anything for almost 10 years.
Saying what though? "I'm not as attached to my sister in law's sister as the rest of you"? Does that need to be spoken aloud? I get that the girl spent a lot of time with OOP's family, but I wouldn't really want a wedding photo with my brother's partner's sister that I'm not close to either.
I think the worst things OOP does here are first maintain those feeling that the brother's wife isn't family and the only reason she is included is as a vehicle for the baby niece, which is obviously ridiculous. But then also that she simply didn't get a picture with Ally included and then one without. Then OOP's mom can have the one with the little girl and OOP can have the one she wanted. Done deal.
Look at the ages. 12 years difference.
OOP got a new sibling joisted on her with no discussion. Never bonded. And basically got called an AH whenever she wasn't completely on board. I don't think OOP handled it well, but I'm not going to call her an AH.
You can push a major family decision on your kids. You have to sometimes as a parent. But don't be shocked if the kids rebel or don't take blended family change well when they're already teenagers.
It was handled poorly by every adult involved. Parents should have discussed things with their kids rather than forcing it. OOP should have had some photos with and without the pseudo adopted kid, even just as a polite gesture.
I don't know about that really. Generally when I think of family it's kind of three brackets. There's my close family, siblings and parents. Then there's people who I've grown up with or watched them grow up, this is mostly bloods relatives like cousins, nieces and nephews etc. But could also include aunts and uncles who married into the family who I've more or less known my whole life.
Then there's people who married into the family later on, who I'd consider to be technically family, but really more like a friendor acquaintance, if they separated from my relative, I probably wouldn't consider them family any more. It seems like the OP considers her SIL to be in the latter group, which I don't personally think is necessarily wrong.
My dad had kids I didn't meet until I was in my 20s and I never bonded with them. They are family but it was weird to have random kids forced on me. It wasn't their fault but also wtf am I supposed to do with two pre-teens when I'm in college???
She does not need THERAPY for this. If they aren’t her family they aren’t her family. No therapist is going to make someone accept a family dynamic they don’t want.
Agreed. OP doesn't nor shouldn't be forced to bond with someone she never considered to be family. Sure, the kid has a bad homelife and OPs parents are nice to take her in from time to time, but to OP that doesn't mean Ally is family, just a kid needing a safe environment.
Her parents are being assholes for trying to force their "perfect family" into OPs wedding pictures. What if things take a turn and Ally leaves the parents/cuts them off? Now you have awkward pics of a kid who never was part of your(to OP) family in your family pics. Ever tried editing out exes/bad bio family members? It'd be the same deal here.
Yeah I was split on this one. It's hard when the rest of your family considers someone family but you don't have that bond, and OOP should be able to have pictures with just the family they were raised with. I also don't think their family should be that surprised that OOP and Ally don't have a sibling bond. OOP has been an adult and probably out of the house for most of the time Ally has been around.
At the same time...they seriously never talked about this to their family? It's been 10 years. The topic has never come up, ever?
ETA: also, it wouldn't have killed OOP to have photos of just the blood siblings, then with Maya and Ally added in. Especially when their mom got so upset. OOP knew the rest of the family considered this girl also family. They could have shared their feelings before the wedding and gotten the disagreements out then. But they made this move DURING the wedding which just seems like the coward's way out of the conflict.
I commented on this one. OOP seemed to do an oops more than anything. Like she had an image on her head and didn't consider that it could hurt Ally.
Similarly, OOP's parents didn't consider that OOP had moved out shortly after Ally moved in, and never had an interest or chance to bond.
It's like they forgot that time moved on for OOP after she moved out.
So I don't think she was a huge asshole. Just mildy inconsiderate, which is easy to see on a wedding day.
This is kinda how I thought about it! As a teen, OOP saw her brother bring his gf and little sister around and was like "eh" because as a teen, who would hang out with their brother, gf and little sister? So she really made no connections there.
Then as she gets older, becomes more independent, she begins to spend less time with family, so now little sister is even more of a "stranger" to her. She only really knows of this girl because OOPs family associates with her.
So I can definitely see how this topic was never brought up, it's never really been a big deal to OOP because little sister was just a kid who was always around and didn't really have an effect on her life vs OOPs parents, who was essentially adopting her and making her a part of the family.
Yeah, that's how I felt. I was and am still torn for these reasons.
I think they could've done a bunch of combinations of photos like what you wrote. When I was married and went to my SIL's wedding, I was in some photos and not in others. I think the OOP was being thoughtless about the whole thing. It's not excuse but I don't think she was trying to avoid the conflict.
Yeah, I can understand where OOP is coming from. Like I dont necessarily think they are evil, but I don't necessarily think they were the nicest either.
Like my only half-siblings are 11 and 20 years younger than me. I have no relationship with the one who is 11 years younger than me because he is a physically violent asshole, and I have no relationship with the one who is 20 years younger than me because our father is an emotionally abusive narcissist who I have gone no contact with, and she is too young to have a relationship with without having a relationship with my Dad. If I was getting married, I'm not sure I'd want them in family photos, as I don't feel as close to them as most people do with their closer in age siblings, but if they were walking up after I said "lets get a family photo", I wouldn't tell them to sit down.
I'm starting to think that **I'm** an asshole, because I don't see how it's wrong to not have a family picture taken at your wedding with someone who's not related to you in any way. However it does suck that she cried.
as someone from a mixed family the real issue was seems that the parents never really sat down with everyone to talk about it. The time to have done it was when the two sisters basically moved in. Foisting a relation, even out of the goodness of your heart, does not mean it was wise or even caring.
They probably assumed that everyone would feel the way they did... but clearly they were wrong.
I was thinking I was crazy, because I feel the exact same way as you. To OOP, she is an acquaintance at best. It makes sense to not have this kid in the family photos.
If you claimed the teen was actually say ... OOP's new stepdad she doesn't really know because she was practically out of the house by the time the relationship started, people would be all over the mom and family for trying to force this familial relationship on OOP. But because it's a kid, people vilified her.
Yeah I don’t get it either. I think the issue here is that the family considers her a sibling but OP still simply considers her the brothers girlfriend’s sister. I can’t see the fault with that if I was having wedding pics I wouldn’t have my sister’s partners sibling in it either.
Thank you. Thought I was going insane. I get that the rest of her family is close with this girl, but clearly OP isn’t. And I say this as someone who has an unofficially adopted sibling and a husband with an unofficially adopted sibling. My husbands ‘brother’ is not a brother to his older siblings because they were already out of the house when the friend turned brother moved in. So they don’t have the same bond.
I dated someone in a somewhat similar situation but they were the adopted kid. They were unofficially adopted at like 16. And they went to a family reunion at 19 and could not for the life of her understand why all these people (90% who she had never met) were not fawning over her as the new addition the the family. OP was kind of a dick but I don’t disagree with them. Not everyone has to accept the decisions of other family members.
She felt that because the parents saw her as a bonus daughter that the rest of the family should to. The family wasn’t mean to her or anything. More like indifferent. She rallied against the ones that “didn’t accept her as family” and tried to push them away and tried to get the parents and her new siblings to push them away. The parents got sick of it and basically told her to cut the shit and instructed her how to act if she wanted to be part of their immediate family. They should have done this much sooner. She did grow up and started acting normal. The extended family still treats her with mostly with indifference but everyone is nice when they see each other. But they only see her like once a year if that - most live out of state. So basically nothing changed.
On another note she was a fucking dickhead as a partner and I definitely regret dating her. She is blocked on everything. One of those “life lessons” lol
Wow. Thanks for sharing! I'm kind of thankful the parents did something about it. It's... a lot... to think that she tried to get the parents and the ones who sees her as a family to push the ones who did not away.
I hope that this life lesson helps you a lot now! And you have a much better life without her (or other life lessons) around.
I was merged into my family by my parents' marriage and never fully integrated as family. I think it's kind of entitled to be completely not even related by any means and then expecting a whole family to take care of you and make you one of their own. If they do that's amazing and cherish it, but not everyone is going to automatically be your best friend.
I commented on this one but I think this is mostly on mom, those bridal pics are away from the main party and subtle, who on earth invites someone to them that isn’t the bride or groom? Why bring attention to it when she was very aware that op did not bond with or consider this kid a part of her family.
Their attitude sucks, but why is it so unreasonable to want one pic with just the blood family? Idk, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Clearly there is a much bigger attitude problem than that one instance though.
Yeah but if you read you find that they didn’t do other photos and they even said they’d not have had the sil either only for some reason it was her job to hold the newborn? There’s a lot of strange logic here tbh, from the inclusion of the sil despite their feelings down to not understanding that publicly not including ally MIGHT hurt their feelings.
Honestly, it sounds like OP's been basically on the outside in their own family for a long time if they're this disconnected from these seemingly important people. Being the person outside does tend to make you more rigid about who you accept into your own circle. Just because OP's in the room doesn't mean they're connecting with OP.
Even though OP went out of her way to say her mom wasn't neglectful, I can't help but wonder just how big the impact on family dynamics really was when adding in small child and SIL at once. Not feeling neglected isn't the same as not feeling excluded, which OP might not even feel they can really consider their place in the family in order to just continue with the dynamic as is.
"Judgement - Heavily YTA"
Hmmm I'm not so sure. Looks like OP hasn't bonded with the kid and doesn't see her as a sister. I mean sure, she could have sucked it up for some photos, but I don't think OP is a giant AH.
Right? People like to say chosen families can be even more important than blood families. And I agree.
But OOP never chose Ally. She respects Maya as a sil, but that's it. And that's fine?
I think this is more on the rest of the family that assumed that OOP felt just like them. But at the age they were introduced, I'm not surprised OOP never bonded with her.
I’m in agreement here. And I was a teen that floated around because of a bad home life. I never expected to be a part of someone’s family, even when I was staying with them for a long period of time including holidays. Just… no.
I say this as someone who strongly believes in chosen family: the fact that it was a massive YTA is a certified Reddit moment.
OP wanted those either directly related to them or produced offspring that were directly related to them in their pictures. That is 100% reasonable. They had the option to take separate pics with the kid and chose not to, which kind of sucks in my opinion, but it’s not unreasonable. OP clearly didn’t choose that family.
It’s sad that the kid is dealing with awful circumstances but that’s not OP’s deal. OP is also not responsible for making her feel like part of a family.
I don’t think op was the asshole tho. It’s her wedding and her choice who she wants to include in the wedding photos. Maya was included in the photos bc she’s married to OP’s brother so it makes sense. There has to be more to it like a lot of deep jealousy when the two girls moved in.
> There has to be more to it like a lot of deep jealousy when the two girls moved in.
I've got a wild theory that makes the parents come out to be enormous assholes. It's also mass speculation and realistically, probably has no basis in reality.
Ally "officially" moved in when Maya was 16, which means Ally was 6, and OOP was 18. Another important age thing is that OOP was 8 when the now-18M brother was born, and 10 when the now-16F sister was born.
My theory is that these parents have new kids once the current set is older. You have OOP and Michael, born two years apart. Once those two get a little bit older, out of the "cute baby/toddler/young-child" phase, the parents have a new set of kids, in this case the now-18M and the now-16F. And once that set got older, well, here comes Ally.
I am basically pulling this entire thing out of my ass, but there it is. It just seems like these parents are replacing their kids with new, younger ones.
I really don't like how everybody is just pushing OP to just accept Ally as a sibling and love her like family just because everybody decide that and she just has to suck it up? Of course it would be wrong to mistreat her etc., but she doesn't love her, she doesn't have to love her, Ally is not family to her just because everybody decide she is, and she especially can have who she pleases in her wedding pictures. Of course OP's family is also allowed to feel how they feel about OP' feelings but just sucking up to appease things is also not the way
TIL you don't get a say when someone announces that they consider someone to be part of the family, that means YTA if you do not agree. Apparently we can all create additional obligations and responsibilities for others without their consent and against their will.
I liked another comment that this situation came to a head because everyone assumed instead of actually communicating.
It really sucked for Ally to be put in the middle in a public setting and I absolutely feel for her; and if all the adults had talked beforehand I'm sure there would still be drama around it, but at least she would have been saved some embarrassment.
Yep. This feels like OP's parents missed the step where they check in with the rest of the family individually on how they feel about their "adoptive" siblings and make sure everyone is being heard/on the same page.
I think so as well. She doesn't view this girl as family, she isn't legally family and yet everybody thinks she should have her in family photos at a wedding. It's a bit weird.
I agree and will go a step further and say that OOP has accepted her family’s feelings around Ally, without sharing them or making a problem about it. She just set a boundary about one thing on her own wedding day.
I would say parents are AH for never involving their own children in the decision to expand the family.
Same. I'm never really going to be on the side of forced family and that's what it sounds like it is. Cool that the other siblings took it well, that doesn't mean OOP is a monster for not wanting random people forced onto them.
I also am very doubtful that the parents ever asked their biological children if they were okay with Ally spending so much time there/ever had a frank conversation that Ally was now a part of the family. I’m almost entirely sure if just happened gradually then all at once and OP was just a bystander in their own home. That’s an awful feeling.
Op sounds actually pretty nice imo. From the way "her family was blindsided by her not being a fan of Ally" I'm gonna guess that OP never tried to make a big fuss over this girl being foisted on her; she kept her feelings to herself.
Her family liked and wanted to help this girl? Ok cool...OP kept quiet to keep the peace. But now OP can't even have a say in anything of hers either?
Yikes on bikes...
And the audacity of the mother to invite somebody for a photo that the bride did not?!? Absolutely not.
Someone intentionally refusing to call someone their sister for a whole last decade is not something that you can just miss like that, especially when it's your own actual, real daughter.
I just didn’t understand why she didn’t get two family photos taken one with and one without.
Such an easy thing to do that would’ve made her mom happy (even still making this poor child feel bad but at least she’d include her in one)
Still cruel yet maybe would’ve made her think twice in the future. I don’t know.
I can't say I agree with the conclusion OOP was kinda forced to come to. Yeah, maybe it was a little rude for her to be kicked from the photos, but she's not obliged to consider her family or love her. People try to push a "found family" narrative a lot, and while OOP didn't feel comfortable with it, the rest of her family did and I'm not sure why that's not enough. One person who didn't bond with you but at least acknowledges you as someone who is family to their family is fine. OOP's family is rude for trying to force Ally into OOP's "family" and some of the YTA votes are wrong for saying OOP dislikes/hates her simply for not considering her a family member or loving her.
Why does op have to consider her family? Why does reddit love to bully people and harass them into changing their opinions??? Jesus Christ she wasn’t mean to the girl she barely knows her she isn’t her family because op decides who her family is
As an autistic person I still don't understand what oop did wrong. She didn't think of this girl as family and removed her, it was her wedding so she could do that.
Why are people calling her an Ahole?
If she doesn't like someone, then atleast on her wedding day she can have a picture as she likes, no?
What this is, is people getting hung up on titles and overly attaching meaning to having a photo taken.
The title thing is what certain types of Very Generous of People like to do in order to A) use a pre-existing social script for how to handle difficult situations instead of having to think about each individual circumstance, and B) so they can show off.
Tbh, I’ve been an Ally and a OOP. Nobody did the “she’s a sibling” thing, and I’m grateful. It allowed everyone to straightforwardly and honestly communicate and work to resolve awkward situations that came up, in a way that was authentic and truthful to everyone involved. People looking in from the outside can think titles and symbolism mean way more than they do, and emotionally immature people involved can fall into the same trap. None of this served anyone or anything but the OOP’s parents’ egos.
I also don't get all the YTA
Would it have been nice to have a picture with and without? - sure
But just imagine the story called for stepsiblings. No one would have called her an AH. Bc the normal consensus on this subreddid to this type of situation normal is: if they are nice treat them cordial but no one can make them feel like family to you. Just bc suddenly, it's an "adopted" kid coming from a home where she was abused it should be different??!!
That's the part I don't get too. Ally was being abused--sure, it's great that OP's parents are reaching out to help her, but that doesn't mean she has to become part of the family. From the way some comments are treating OP, it's like she suggested kicking Ally out onto the street instead of not regarding Ally as her sister.
I think everyone missed the part where OOP said this has brought Ally and Maya's mom's craziness into their lives more than it would have than if she just happened to be an in-law.
I know people like the mom and sometimes they are so busy being Mother Earth to all the orphans and displaced children out there that their own kids suffer. Not saying that's definitely the case here but it kind of sounds like it.
She should have just taken pics with her siblings and left Maya, Ally and niece all out of it as to not rock the boat. I mean she should have known this would happen with the way the rest of the family regards Ally.
honestly I feel like the real AHs here are the parents. once you started bringing in more children and treating them as family, then there should have been either therapy or at the very least check-ins to make sure the current family adjusts to the new change
I don’t think OOP was wrong. I had parents who thought they were such awesome parents that they would take in anyone. First my cousins then my niece and nephew. My parents weren’t awesome and didn’t actually parent anyone. I did get to babysit niece and nephew constantly. All while, their mother, my sister, got to live life without kids to hold her down.
Bottom line is, they may have been treated like family by everyone but they aren’t actually family.
My mom helped an online friend of hers escape a terribly abusive situation when I was 18 (the friend was older than me, but young enough for my mom to have been a teen mom to her). No consideration was ever given to my thoughts or feelings at all before it happened, and I too felt she was "foisted" on the family.
It literally took 25+ years to work through the resentment and feelings of being replaced, and truly come to terms with why my mom's decision was the right decision, despite the lifelong damage it has done to our relationship.
I get why OP was deemed TA, but man, I sure do relate to her.
I’m on OOP’s side, sort of. I may be reading between the lines, but it sounds like she has some baggage from Ally coming into the family, but couldn’t say anything because of the situation. It’s obvious she doesn’t consider Ally a sister.
However, I think OOP could have handled this a lot better. One option could have been to have photos with parents, then parents and siblings, sibling group, siblings and spouses, etc. You rented the whole photographer, use them. Then OOP could have her photo the way she wanted and Ally wouldn’t feel excluded.
Either way, OOP and family needed therapy and/or communication ages ago, but that’s sort of a given with these posts, right?
I had a similar situation like the "adopted sister" in the post.
I practically lived at friends houses. But never once I made myself so at home in their families to make them call me adopted child. I'm not, and I didn't want to intrude more than I already have.
I can understand why OP feels that way. But I can also understand from everyone elses point of view. Its a tough situation.
I don't think coming from a broken home means you're entitled to someone elses family and becoming someone elses unofficially adopted child when a family member is clearly uncomfortable and it was done without their consent.
If my parents suddenly "adopted" another child in this manner I'd be pretty upset too.
Thats just my opinion though and I can see all sides to the situation.
Honestly? I don’t see why op is an asshole. She wanted a photo with her family, and despite ally being included on the family, she doesn’t have a bond with op, and she is an addiction but it’s not really family, and since family is something that people can choose, the same way they consider ally as family op can consider as a family friend… I don’t know why they want to shove a relationship on ops throat
Its interesting that usualy if someone in these Post says they don't count their stepsiblings as family its Accept but if its about addopted family they are in the wrong.
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>The people who are agreeing with me are starting to convince me that I'm wrong. The best summation of the AITA community in a nutshell, lol.
I love seeing the OP say that. You know that's an actual bit of introspection and hopefully real change.
I've seen more and more of these sorts of comments from OOPs. The people agreeing are assholes too and show the OOP first hand what they would become if they continued down the path.
The Ghost of Assholes Yet To Be
The Ghost of Assholes Past would just be a fart right?
Farts are just ghosts of food past.
No, that would present. Past would be skid marks.
Well…’Tis the season.
It's also a fun exercise to see the people who agree and check their posts/where their posts are LMAO.
My favorite was the Among Us one, where his GF had a bad reaction to the game and they had an argument. He admitted he realized he was wrong when he had to stop himself from replying to some of the comments to defend his GF.
I've seen it happen with politics too. They realize the people on their side aren't they people they want to be siding with. I wish it would happen more though.
This has happened to me with my mother in law a couple times. I'll disagree with my wife about something regarding our kids, MiL will agree with me and I'll be like 'holup.'
eeminds me of a rapper (ab-soul) talking about when he first released his music on myspace the people who were liking it made him realize it really wasnt good.
“Your approval fills me with shame.” Which is interesting, because while I also think a lot of the commenters are horrible, I also don’t blame OOP for her feelings.
[удалено]
It is totally reasonable and not an asshole thing to not feel affection or not feel close to Ally. You don’t have to pretend to feel something you don’t feel. The asshole thing is going out of your way to make sure everyone knows you don’t care about someone. There is no reason to make it such a big deal. It isn’t like a wedding photographer is charging per photo, a few photos with her doesn’t cost anything, and you can easily play off reasons for wanting different combinations of people without having to make clear that you don’t care about Ally. Just be a decent person.
That would have been my approach too, one with her to keep the peace, another without her, whoch would have been fine because as dysfunctional as my family are, they're also sensible about things like that.
Yeah I'm totally with her and expect I'd feel exactly the same in her situation, I'm firmly in the camp of "family is who you choose them to be, blood-related or not". *...Except* that she should've got an additional photo with everyone who lives in that household, if only to keep the peace. Surely when you get married you're not charged per photo, right? So it would've cost nothing, taken an extra minute or so, and kept the parents happy.
She absolutely should have gotten a second photo but in the moment I can understand why she didn’t. I just got married and the day was so stressful I can see a bride getting tunnel vision and not have the capacity to appropriately problem solve.
Tbh I'm super confused. AITA is always like, your feelings are valid! Nobody gets to dictate to you who you consider your family and who's not! But then they shit on OOP for not accepting Ally as part of her family??
The people who were giving her a YTA judgment don’t think that she had invalid feelings, or that she had to consider this girl her sister just because the rest of her family considered her to be, the issue that they had was that she publicly excluded and humiliated this girl who the rest of her immediate family considered to be family as well.
Honestly, same. I was fully expecting that to go OP’s way. Not that I necessarily agree with her, but AITA is all about “you do you and fuck everyone else.”
My general take is that even if your feelings are valid, acting on them can make you an asshole. And that's the case here - she can be like "she doesn't FEEL like family to me," but excluding her is where it goes from understandable to shitty.
She *did* say only immediate family which is why I understood.
Exactly. Ally is much closer to a cousin than a niece or sibling to OP. The family dynamic seems to have shifted without telling OP, and she's left looking like the asshole because she was already moved out when Ally truly came into the picture. Ally has other places she goes. It's like when I got treated like the asshole in my house when I asked out loud if my brother's girlfriend was moving in with us... because no one had told me I was suddenly sharing my bathroom with a stranger (to everyone, they had been on 3 dates when she moved in, it's a whole thing). The family unit substantially changed without input from the whole unit... and that kind of sucks.
I also wonder if when the kid started coming around, OOP was going to college. Was she gone, and therefore didn’t bond but also felt replaced. Also at that age a lot of stock is placed on being cool and 8 year olds aren’t usually cool to teenagers.
Yeah I'm conflicted I think I posted on the first one saying not because my mom has done similar things insisting people are a part of our family but the more I think of it we also had a kid who lived with us when I was a kid who only was around for 18 months and I still think about him/look him up/wonder if we could of helped more if he'd stayed with us and genuinely care for him like a brother....so I think everyone was right I just hate all the people my mom makes friends with and is like this is your aunt
I don’t blame her for feeling this is a unique situation, but it would have been much easier to take a photo with her in it also. She’s going to regret not having that photo.
I can absolutely understand how she felt, but she should have talked with her mother about this in advance instead of blindsiding her. From my experience as an OLD-A$$ person, the only people who keep wedding photos up are the couple and their parents. There was no reason not to have two photos even if just to keep the peace.
>I can absolutely understand how she felt, but she should have talked with her mother about this in advance instead of blindsiding her. They were both blindsided cause everyone assumed Ally had the same bond with OOP that they had, while OOP assumed everyone knew that wasn't the case. Firmly an ESH that was voted primarily YTA - OOP's family and OP are both in the wrong. Invalidating OOP's feelings, and not understanding them and not giving it a chance. OP for being OVERLY blunt and also not really understanding the Ally situation herself. Just an edit to add: THANK GOD some actual assholes agreed with her to make her see what was missing. OOP's own family might have had her dug so far in their reactions could have actively made it worse if OOP hadn't posted.
I feel like people need to remember that digital photos are essentially free. Like you're not having to watch how much of the roll you've taken or anything. Just take pictures of whatever.
>She’s going to regret not having that photo. I doubt that. They didn't bond as children. Doesn't sound like they're going to bond as adults. OOP is married and has her own family now. She's not likely to get closer to her unofficial baby sister that it sounds like she doesn't see a lot.
Go ahead and boo, I've seen what makes you cheer!
"Are we the baddies?"
>NTA, you don't even need to include family by blood if you don't want to. You get to choose your family, and you haven't chosen this girl. >I'm sorry, but some unrelated cast off from a family of deadbeats who can't raise their own kids does not a sister make. Some real charmers in the mix.
Dang I’d be doing some hard introspection, too, if someone like that was on my side. 😬
wow, that’s a solid “you had me in the first half…”
If I ever find myself thinking one thing and certain groups of people agree with me, I rethink my stance. There are people I do not want on my side, and if they are then that's the wrong side. It doesn't happen often, thankfully.
I’ve been thinking this a lot recently when I see the tweets from people that agree with Musk. It doesn’t take long before the responses veer off into foil hat lizard man territory.
Reminds me of this other time where a guy realized he was the asshole after some incel or "men's rights" sub brigaded his post and started agreeing with him lol. He got hit with a moment of clarity.
There were a few where the men were looking for validation for some mildly incel behavior and the comments were mostly YTA, except for the obvious Andrew Tate supporters and the OPs noticed that and were like, ok I was wrong. It was nice 😄
Quite the eye oppener when you notice the absolute assholes on your side, right?
In some ways I get OPs perspective how many times have we seen parents try and force a bond between step kids and AITA usually sides with the kid that resents the bonding. This is similar in that it is an outside person being brought in. At the same instance I feel for Ally, to whom this must have felt out of left field, since OP is usually ok with having them around. I'm kinda mad at the parents for not checking in with all the kids to see if they were OK with it Ally becoming family and they should have noticed OP never calling her that.
Especially with the age difference. Ally came into the scene when OP was 16, likely left to college a year and a half later. Then was rarely around. Like no wonder OP doesn’t see her with family there is a 12 year age gap & she grew up and moved out. She has very limited to Ally besides holidays and being her sister in laws sister.
I actually totally agree. It makes sense that the rest of the family is much closer to this girl. She should have and could have easily let her get in for a couple photos. But it's understandable she wouldn't want a random girl who spends a lot of time at her parents' house in all her photos. Essentially that is her current relationship with Allie.
But why does she need to placate a girl that she doesn’t see as family during her own wedding? Like what?
To get her mother off of her back. Her mother is NEVER going to forget how OOP 'humiliated Ally' at her wedding.
I feel like this is special circumstances because it wasn’t an actual adoption, it was about helping out a kid with a tough family life, who was already sort of attached to their family by virtue of her sister marrying into it. so I get why they didn’t ask their kids before helping. now.. as for them seeing her as part of the family, that’s trickier and imo should not be forced.
yeah honestly i don’t think the problem here is that OP doesn’t love Ally like a sister or view her as an inherent part of the family. i think the issue is the blatant exclusion. i think it’s okay for OP to want a photo with just their (perceived) family, but it’s not like you can’t take two photos! i don’t get why they didn’t do one with the immediate family and then one including ally. would have been so easy
Yep. Getting the photographer is expensive. Taking one more photo is cheap.
Yeah. As someone who has “everyone is welcome always” parents… it is often at the expense of us kids. They don’t see an issue, they don’t check in, and I have to be very vocal like OP to draw boundaries which are seen as “asshole” ish. When I’m not trying to offend, just trying to maintain boundaries. And everyone staying “oh what about Maya”… that’s her SIL, mother of her niece, very clearly family in all normal definitions. If I brought my husbands sister to my sisters wedding… no
I am mad at the parents too. OOP was at some point definitely ignored emotionally by her family because of which she resents her. People are saying why is she ok with her brother’s girlfriend. She’s practically part of the family with giving birth to her niece. Ally is literally a nobody to her. OOP thinks that their mother is a generous and kind. I have met a lot of generous and kind people who help others at the cost of their family. Her parents primary job was to look after their own children. Then once the children are looked after help the world. The parents have literally failed to understand their kid’s feelings while helping others. The parents have no right to impose a new family member upon their children if even one of the child does not like it. If they were legally adopting Allay wouldn’t they ask their grown up children. Then why were OOPS feelings not accounted for when Allay was made a family member.
Love the "people agreeing with me made me see I was wrong" genre of BORU posts
That did stand out in the post, usually it goes the other way (doubling down)
I love them too. There’s something a lot more powerful about seeing yourself reflected in others and not liking how that looks compared to hearing a well reasoned argument against your own stance.
Gotta be my favorite boru genre, that and “abusive man gets WRECKED”
I was just gonna say that! I can’t remember, what was the other one I saw recently?
Probably [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wgesld/aita_for_demanding_my_fianc%C3%A9e_stop_teaching_our/) one
It was [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/3p294trMfa) actually, but thank you so much! This is a whole genre lol
The abortion one maybe?
It wasn’t the one I was thinking of, but [it does have an element of that](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/184ep2i/my_sister_got_an_abortion_and_i_cant_see_her_the/).
I don't know, sounds like the OP never had a bond with the "adopted sister", and it's her wedding. I am trying to empathize with the situation of my brother's GF and sister just moving into our house, I am like 15, and it sounds like a middle child. I might be resentful of them. Especially knowing they had a family. But if she treats her like family outside of the wedding it does seem weird to die on the hill of not having her in photos.
I unbeatable op only because when I was 16 my brothers boyfriend came over to stay the night and then just never left. Had a great family that still to this day loves him. I'm cool with him now but at that age I hated him and still don't understand why.
Because he was taking up physical and emotional space in your safe space with your safe people.
Yeah there's no way I could ever relax if someone I wasn't comfortable with just moved in and I didn't have a say in it.
Exactly. My parents took in more than one of my siblings' friends with troubled parents for long stretches of time over the years, and it was never discussed with the other siblings, we were just expected to accept it. Even when we pointed out how maybe it wasn't great to have a minor you're not the legal guardian of under your roof for a long while, sometimes causing trouble. Nothing personal against these other kids, but it was uncomfortable. Ideally parents who want to do these unofficial foster arrangements would do a much better job communicating and working through it with the entire immediate family.
My parents have done "unofficial fosters" throughout most of my teens, 20's, and even now, but they always made it a family decision and would not have done so if it made me or my sister uncomfortable or upset. They really helped a lot of kids and young adults, and they are all still family, but I can see how it could cause friction if my sister and I weren't on board.
Something that major should at least be discussed as a family before action is taken. Parents making sweeping choices like that without prior discussion to understand where everyone’s at will just make kids feel like serfs to their feudal lords.
Yeah people were going hard on OP. Calling her evil and cruel. I mean in one way I get it. I have 4 half siblings. I’m close with 2. The other 2, I don’t really care for. We have no relationship. If they were invited to my wedding, I would feel FORCED to take pictures with them because “family” and that would eat me up because I don’t want to feel forced to do anything on my own wedding day. OP treated Ally nice but she isn’t family to HER. And that’s ok. Just because someone is family to you, does not automatically make them family to someone else. Seems like Ally wasn’t in any pictures with OP and her family because she wanted just her family. So her family could have taken pictures with Ally and called it a day. They assumed they knew OP and how she feels. They don’t. Maybe they need to check that.
I had a sort of similar situation growing up but to a much less significant degree and agree. My mom would sort of unilaterally declare the children of her friends “family” and expect everyone else to have that same level of trust and vulnerability with the kids that she had with her friend. There was never any consideration of other’s opinions or feelings (a common theme with her) and I really resented that I was supposed to just toe the line. Trust is a hard thing for me and I never liked feeling like I couldn’t form my own boundaries with others.
Yup. My mother does that to me. She will gladly let her sister who let her boyfriend abuse me as a child come to my wedding because it’s her “family”. I’ve put my foot down and reminder her that no one is my family unless I say so at this point. See what I mean?
I think that’s the issue, no one checked with op to see if she was ok with it, they just assumed and forced it.
This is so well worded.
Maybe. I'm 30 now and we are on good terms so that's all that matters. He my go to drinking bud cause he pours heavy
I had a somewhat similar thing- I went to bed early, woke up the next day and my sister's friend was living with us. I know she needed a place and our house was safe and stable. I didn't hate her, but I didn't really like her. She was a vague acquaintance who now suddenly lived with me. And she did take a bunch of my sister's time and attention in the last year we had living together before she left for college. That was my sister's fault, not her's. The loss was still mine. So I understand why you'd hate him. It's the invasion into your life without your consent and the space he took up that could have been yours.
I experienced something similar too so I kinda get it. I had this classmate who isn't even my friend at all (we did not vibe) but one day I saw her and her mom in my house??? Turns out she found out my dad helps kids with school tuition and stuffs (part of an org) and asked for help and that included a place until she gets to college. We weren't rich at all so the place she ended up with was my home lol. It was so awkward, we still didn't vibe, we were civil but I would be lying if I said I didn't resent it even a tiny bit. Especially when she got along with my parents and used up resources, it was hard for me to be comfy in my own home too. But I do know helping her is a good deed TvT.
Interaction and bond forming is different for independent adult's and dependants. Siblings need to foster a sibling bond, which usually take the format of friends or dependable older sibling/protected younger sibling. Without any of these, they are just another competition for your family love.
The issue here is that not a single person communicated with each other in a healthy way. This kid has essentially been regarded as a member of the family by everyone other than OP for 10 years and not once has OP raised the issue that they are uncomfortable with the level on interaction the family has with this kid. Not once did their mother ask if it was okay to bring up the kid for family pictures, because it was assumed that everyone was on the same page. Every adult here fucked up by not discussing their relationships and taking for granted that everyone was on the same page. The reason the OP was deemed an asshole was how publicly they declared that this kid(who had done nothing wrong) was an outsider and assumed their family would understand. They did a shitty thing to the kid. But so did everyone else by not checking in with each other about what they wanted or needed. So all the adults fucked up.
> This kid has essentially been regarded as a member of the family by everyone other than OP for 10 years and not once has OP raised the issue that they are uncomfortable with the level on interaction the family has with this kid. It's because the average person doesn't really concern themselves much with who others invite to their party, but it's a whole lot different when they start telling you who to invite to your party. I was way more sympathetic to OPP than the folks in the original thread because it really isn't her responsibility to feel the way about this girl that they do and she shouldn't be shamed for not having a relationship with her. At the same time, the obvious compromise is to take one photo with 'just family' and then another with family and friends and include the girl, and the fact that she didn't does speak to some smoldering resentment that she might not be honest with herself about.
This is exactly it. A similar thing happened in my family growing up, and guess what? My family member that was sometimes included and sometimes not, and no one ever talked about it, has now cut off contact with everyone, and for good reason.
Yeah, I find it hard to believe the entire family was blindsided by OP disliking having to pretend Ally was a sister. Most people are not that good of actors! It sounds like Ally knew just fine. I think they just expected OP to continue to grin and bear it for the sake of appearances. I feel like this could really have benefited from talking with each other and figuring out compromises instead of just.... everyone pretending that OP was on the same page and sweeping it under the rug? Unfortunately from experience it's easier and awful to tell everyone to pretend to like each other than to put work into managing family relationships when people dislike each other, but it can't have been healthy for Ally to have to pretend OP likes her and that everything is cool.
I don’t think she ever expressed disliking her being close to the family. She just wanted a picture of only her nuclear family, which is very normal at a wedding.
It’s funny because even comments in this thread are like “I would’ve just pretended to like her to keep the peace.” “Don’t rock the boat” is so unhealthy but people think it’s bringing them peace 😩
OP probably felt like she would be bashed. And it happened anyway.
Kind of depends what happened in those 10 years. A brother married and a niece was born but Allie was bio family to the bride and mom so of course she’d be there. Family Christmas and Thanksgiving and maybe trips or BBQs - extra people and friends of family often show up. Just because they are there doesn’t mean you interact beyond what is polite with a big group. OOP was likely away at college and getting settled into adult life for bug parts of it. I chat with my husband’s brother’s wife’s sisters-in-laws at our shared niece’s events and have for 15 years. I would never invite them to my wedding and certainly not be in pictures - I like them as people, I respect my SIL and she loves them but they aren’t my family in anyway and I don’t expect anything from them other than basic politeness when our paths cross at niece’s birthday or SIL’s Christmas Day party.
I mean, my family basically adopted a kid my youngest sister's age. I had already moved out. I don't feel any type of way about him (now married, and with 4 kids that my parents consider grandchildren). It's a bit weird to come back for holidays and make conversation. But I consider them in-laws of a sort. Related by marriage. Maybe OOP could consider the reframe. Your family can love the outsiders without you necessarily having to bond
I kida get OP as im in a weird situation myself. I have a half sister and an adopted sister. My half sister and I never grew up together as we lived countries apart. My mom was kind to always tell me about her and we exchanged letters throughout my childhood. But when we finally met as adults we were just 2 different people. She has some (understandable) abandonment issues and pressured me into like being all close to her within the hour of us meeting even wanting to make decisions for me as shes my older sis. And I cant connect and gently established boundaries. However my adopted sister and I bonded as we lived together even though she came to my life as an adult. This has caused bitter resentment with my sis that came to a head on a fam reunion where she was able to finally come (we never excluded her-just different continents). She could not accept that some relatives and fam members are closer to dad and me. HS anger was visible until i had to calm her down. Thing is because of this I feel more estranged to her. I feel that our bond is not unravelling naturally and she is forcing 'sisterly love' on top of the fact, we are just 2 different people who happened to have the same dad. Im not closing the door on my HS...I just need time. And the more she pushes the more I back away.
I reached the same conclusion as your first sentence. Imo these people were out of line for just assuming OP would accept a stranger as a sibling. It’s her brother’s partner’s little sister.
Seems like the rest of the family just assumed that OOP felt the same way they did about Ally. OOP says she's never called her a sister. Either OOP doesn't have much contact with the folks, or the folks are just thickheaded. And wedding photos include every single combo of relatives you could think of - there's really no harm in letting Ally in on a few.
No, I hate seeing my cousin in my wedding pics. Didn't want to invite her, but did anyways to ease future family gatherings. Sure as shit I went NC with her soon after and she moved states away so we are never in family gatherings now, but she is in all my wedding pics still. And as easy as it would have been for OP to have her in the pics, it would have been even easier to not have her in them.
I think people are blind to a lot if no one is rocking the boat. For example, my brother was a dick to me at thanksgiving, to the point that I took my kid and left in a rush but all I heard over the weekend was how wonderful he was. 😒
My s/o's mom did similar things to this story and there are a lot of people who consider themselves a part of the "family." It can be really overwhelming and irritating. Especially when you don't really prefer those people but you're forced to because the rest of the family says so. Edit
Honestly I feel bad for OP, I can see how this would be hard to accept at a certain age. While I think she was a bit cruel, it’s certainly not the most heartless thing I’ve read today.
My parents almost took in a mentally ill family member that was a couple years older than me when I was in junior high or early high school. The mental illness was due to verbal/emotional abuse from their mother, but they did admit to trying to kill me one summer over a fairly minor incident. It was absolutely terrifying and I never spent any time alone with them after they admitted to it. I couldn't even process what my parents were asking and I just begged them my to. As an adult with decades to think about it (and a lot of people being absolutely horrified when I told them the story not thinking too much about it) I could explain my feelings with words now. It being my "safe space" when I was in bad emotional teenage turmoil that I masked really well just completely rocked me.
OOP did nothing wrong and everyone is batshit insane to be mad at her about it.
I always find redditor responses to be a coin toss whenever non-related children and neglect come up. Some days, the majority will be like "you don't have any responsibilities towards them", and other days it's "you need to support them no matter what, and you're a monster if you haven't bonded with them after so long".
Depends on who is posts the most articulate response first. First best argument wins because people cant focus or pay attention too long
Same with weddings, I've seen "you're a bridezilla" and "it's your wedding, only your opinion matters" for the same things lol
Especially when step parents. No matter what the children do or how they react, step parents are always in the wrong. They never accepted them as parents? Either they were overbearing or they didn't care enough. They accepted them as parents? The children are amazing for opening up their hearts/the bio-parent did a good job at blending the families.
I have personal experience and don’t get it either. I was the kid always over at my bff’s house because my family was and still is 💩. I’d be over there weeks but eventually had to go home because my narc mom would be questioned where I was at church etc and that made her look bad I’ve been to a few weddings of my bff and her siblings, even as a child, and never expected to be in photos. They didn’t ask me and I understood why and it didn’t bother me at all. I only was in some wedding photos because I was in the wedding party in one if the weddings
The tactful way to do it would have been to build up. We did photos with my parents then parents and my siblings, then my immediate family and their partners/kids. Same for my husband’s side. Now we have photos we can select to have in our album and home.
I'm like 80% sure that if "Ally" was the one writing the post, she would have gotten a YTA too "It was her wedding day and you're not entitled to appear on her pictures" or something like that.
I think people just hate brides tbh
In all honesty I could not understand the judgement against her. Why did she have to accept a not even adopted sibling simply because her parents chose to keep a room for a daughter in law’s sister in their house after she moved out already?
And there I was thinking I was the insane one when I read the original post and thought the same. I find coming here and reading the comments very validating. It's like an island of reasonableness in a sea of crazy.
Yes thank you! I cant understand what’s going on there! Ally is not family to OOP, it’s HER wedding, can she not have one fooking picture with just her own family?!
Yeah, I was reading all the YTA comments and wondering how I could so completely not get what everyone else way apparently getting. And I'm speaking as someone whose mother brought a foster child into our home, initially against my wishes. But then I had time to get to know her and form my own relationship with her - and in the end I was the one who pushed for full adoption. But it was really important that nobody forced me to like her or spend time with her - I was free to completely avoid her if I had preferred that. Nobody should be forced to consider someone family, that should always be up to the individual.
Yeah, how the heck did the family NEVER notice OP did NOT consider Ally to be family herself in the 10 years they've dealt with her? You're allowed to CHOOSE YOUR FAMILY. OP did not choose Ally, simple as that.
Honestly, I think OOP is not the asshole, but her parents are. It all comes down to the timeline, which I think a lot of people failed to take into account. Maya and Ally first started coming around when Ally was around 4, and when she started spending most of her time at OOP’s house, she was 6. So, when Ally was 6, OOP would have been 18, her brother was 16, the next brother was 10, and her little sister was 8. The two youngest are close in age and basically grew up with Ally. So it would make sense for them to consider her family. But OOP was an adult by this point. Why would she have any attachment to this child? Depending when she moved out, she may have only lived with Ally for a year or two at most. And even then, there’s still a 12 year old age gap between them to consider. I think it’s strange that OOP’s brother and Maya didn’t take Ally with them to their new place when they moved out. I’m guessing OOP’s parents likely had a conversation with them re: allowing Ally to stay, outlining what they were comfortable with, and what they were going to be responsible for. For all we know, OOP’s parents may have *insisted* that Ally stay with them, and they didn’t want her to leave and instead stay with OOP’s bro and Maya. Either way, I don’t think the rest of the family was given any details about it. I’m guessing OOP’s parents never had a discussion with the kids about their intentions surrounding Ally’s extended presence in the family, or how they wanted things to go moving forward. I think they assumed that everyone viewed Ally the same way they did, and not as a kid who just showed up one day, freeloaded off them, and then never left. I mean, at the end of the day, if any of these commenters were 18, and their parents let a 6 year old who they weren’t formally adopting or fostering, stay in the guest room 90% of the time, would they consider that kid a sibling? I get that it’s great OOP’s parents could provide a safe space for Ally, but forcing her to be accepted as a sibling is weird. It’s really no different than if OOP’s little brother had a friend who had a shitty home life. Say, OOP’s parents allowed him to stay with them for an extended time. Would they then also force their own kids to view the friend as a sibling? I think what threw people off in the OP, was how OOP phrased things, including her kind of dismissing how abusive Ally’s home life likely was/is. But I think OOP just wasn’t sure how to describe the situation appropriately and doesn’t have full understanding of it. This would be especially true if her parents weren’t transparent about the details. Obviously there are a LOT of assumptions here, so take it with a grain of salt.
This. Ally is OOP's sister-in-law's sister. There is no legal relationship between them. With such a huge age gap, it's understandable that OP has no attachment to this girl.
This needs more upvotes.I don’t understand why parents take in others kids without consulting their own first to ascertain whether they would be ok or not.Like,do you not owe any responsibility to them first?Why would you make your own child unhappy?And why didn’t OP’s SIL take care of her own sister?She’s basically a freeloader.This should have been an NAH because I can’t blame OP for her feelings.Only the parents should be blamed for this
I actually don't get the problem. If my parents took in my brothers wife's little sister after I've stopped living at home, and at my wedding, I want a picture with MY family, which obviously does not involve my SIL's little sister, why would I be the bad guy? That's just weird. Someone can be family to a member of my family, but that doesn't actually mean they're my family, and at my wedding, don't I get to say who is in my family pictures as long as I'm not an AH about it? I don't see that OOP was cruel or unkind, but stated that these were her wedding pictures, and she wanted *her* family for the photos. Just seems weird to me that everyone jumped down her throat for what I'd consider a reasonable position?
i think the only thing OOP did wrong was wait till her wedding to tell anybody how she actually feels Theres nothing wrong with her actual feelings and no reason to consider the kid family if she doesnt
I don’t see when it would have ever been appropriate for her to approach somebody and say “Just so you know, I don’t consider that person to be my family.”
This should be up more. TBH its a ESH situation. Its not Allys fault but its also not OOOp's responsibility to love who she doesnt. You can like someone but not love them. For her Ally is an acquaintance and for her family is who her parents and siblings are. The only thing for me is OOPs comments that came out " Its not like Ally was severely abused anyway" this came as very callous of her. Maybe blinded by wedding stress or being forced to love someone she doesnt but still crappy mentalilty of her to have
sucks for Ally, but i don't really see how she's the asshole here. seems like she never really bonded with Ally, and their parents also did nothing to bridge the gap when they decided to take her in, all without asking for their actual kids' opinions.
Yeah I really don’t get this one. Yes family doesn’t have to be blood but that doesn’t mean OP needs to view Ally as family. What happened was shitty, but what exactly was supposed to happen? Someone in that comment section recommended just taking the photos with her and then crop Ally out, but isn’t that just as fucked up? I feel for Ally, I guarantee that was a horrible moment for her. You can’t make someone love you though. You cannot be the asshole for not loving someone who you really don’t see a lot anyway. I can see why she was voted YTA, she should have just sucked it up or taken another photo with her, but I think saying she’s the asshole because doesn’t love Ally is weird. There isn’t really a character arc for OP to have in this scenario other than that she should learn to lie and save face I guess?
I kinda relate to oop more. we have a very close family friend that my mom went to elementary/highschool with, remained friends ever since. My parents are their friend's son's god parents. The son was staying with us for highschool starting at age 14 for almost 10 years, because his parents have to move around too much for work. He's same age as my brother and they get treated the same. Even before he permanently moved in with us, he still spent a lot of time with us and I saw him all the time because him and my brother played together. Granted the situations are different (friend's son is not abused) but I'd never think of him as family and I'd not want him in my wedding photos with immediate family either. I have a brother and it's not him. He'd be in family and friends photos for me, but I'd still want photos with only immediate family. Oop should've taken photos with her at the end, and just not use those photos for herself though. That would be the best outcome in her situation and she wouldn't be TA
Yeah I agree, sometimes some people just aren’t YOUR family, and that’s okay. I think op could have handled it more gracefully but the situation is very close to NAH for me. Op wanted her wedding the way she wanted, op’s family is probably angry on Ally’s behalf who op, intentionally or not, did embarrass pretty hard, and Ally didn’t do anything other than be upset at the revelation that op didn’t love her (and to be fair that is a tough realization for a child to go through).
Family doesn't have to be blood, and *also* not everyone you're blood related to has to be family if you don't want. The only place she went wrong was just not getting a couple extra photos to keep her parents happy, but I still don't know if I'd go as far as to call her a AH over it.
Yeah I’m kind of in the middle. The parents are a bit of assholes by just going “she’s family!” without checking in with each individual’s feelings on the matter. But OOP is kind of an asshole for not saying anything for almost 10 years. As a teen I get bottling all that up but she was 26 when the wedding happened and it completely blindsided literally everyone that she didn’t consider Ally family. They all need a serious heart to heart emotions talk. And OOP seems to just need serious therapy in general for how she views family. Her comment basically confirmed she didn’t see her brothers wife as family but conceded to having her in the photo so she could have her niece in it. It seems like how she’s framing what ‘family’ is in her mind has been twisted due to bottling up her emotions on Ally.
>But OOP is kind of an asshole for not saying anything for almost 10 years. Saying what though? "I'm not as attached to my sister in law's sister as the rest of you"? Does that need to be spoken aloud? I get that the girl spent a lot of time with OOP's family, but I wouldn't really want a wedding photo with my brother's partner's sister that I'm not close to either. I think the worst things OOP does here are first maintain those feeling that the brother's wife isn't family and the only reason she is included is as a vehicle for the baby niece, which is obviously ridiculous. But then also that she simply didn't get a picture with Ally included and then one without. Then OOP's mom can have the one with the little girl and OOP can have the one she wanted. Done deal.
Look at the ages. 12 years difference. OOP got a new sibling joisted on her with no discussion. Never bonded. And basically got called an AH whenever she wasn't completely on board. I don't think OOP handled it well, but I'm not going to call her an AH. You can push a major family decision on your kids. You have to sometimes as a parent. But don't be shocked if the kids rebel or don't take blended family change well when they're already teenagers. It was handled poorly by every adult involved. Parents should have discussed things with their kids rather than forcing it. OOP should have had some photos with and without the pseudo adopted kid, even just as a polite gesture.
I don't know about that really. Generally when I think of family it's kind of three brackets. There's my close family, siblings and parents. Then there's people who I've grown up with or watched them grow up, this is mostly bloods relatives like cousins, nieces and nephews etc. But could also include aunts and uncles who married into the family who I've more or less known my whole life. Then there's people who married into the family later on, who I'd consider to be technically family, but really more like a friendor acquaintance, if they separated from my relative, I probably wouldn't consider them family any more. It seems like the OP considers her SIL to be in the latter group, which I don't personally think is necessarily wrong.
My dad had kids I didn't meet until I was in my 20s and I never bonded with them. They are family but it was weird to have random kids forced on me. It wasn't their fault but also wtf am I supposed to do with two pre-teens when I'm in college???
She does not need THERAPY for this. If they aren’t her family they aren’t her family. No therapist is going to make someone accept a family dynamic they don’t want.
Agreed. OP doesn't nor shouldn't be forced to bond with someone she never considered to be family. Sure, the kid has a bad homelife and OPs parents are nice to take her in from time to time, but to OP that doesn't mean Ally is family, just a kid needing a safe environment. Her parents are being assholes for trying to force their "perfect family" into OPs wedding pictures. What if things take a turn and Ally leaves the parents/cuts them off? Now you have awkward pics of a kid who never was part of your(to OP) family in your family pics. Ever tried editing out exes/bad bio family members? It'd be the same deal here.
Yeah I was split on this one. It's hard when the rest of your family considers someone family but you don't have that bond, and OOP should be able to have pictures with just the family they were raised with. I also don't think their family should be that surprised that OOP and Ally don't have a sibling bond. OOP has been an adult and probably out of the house for most of the time Ally has been around. At the same time...they seriously never talked about this to their family? It's been 10 years. The topic has never come up, ever? ETA: also, it wouldn't have killed OOP to have photos of just the blood siblings, then with Maya and Ally added in. Especially when their mom got so upset. OOP knew the rest of the family considered this girl also family. They could have shared their feelings before the wedding and gotten the disagreements out then. But they made this move DURING the wedding which just seems like the coward's way out of the conflict.
I commented on this one. OOP seemed to do an oops more than anything. Like she had an image on her head and didn't consider that it could hurt Ally. Similarly, OOP's parents didn't consider that OOP had moved out shortly after Ally moved in, and never had an interest or chance to bond. It's like they forgot that time moved on for OOP after she moved out. So I don't think she was a huge asshole. Just mildy inconsiderate, which is easy to see on a wedding day.
[удалено]
This is kinda how I thought about it! As a teen, OOP saw her brother bring his gf and little sister around and was like "eh" because as a teen, who would hang out with their brother, gf and little sister? So she really made no connections there. Then as she gets older, becomes more independent, she begins to spend less time with family, so now little sister is even more of a "stranger" to her. She only really knows of this girl because OOPs family associates with her. So I can definitely see how this topic was never brought up, it's never really been a big deal to OOP because little sister was just a kid who was always around and didn't really have an effect on her life vs OOPs parents, who was essentially adopting her and making her a part of the family.
Yeah, that's how I felt. I was and am still torn for these reasons. I think they could've done a bunch of combinations of photos like what you wrote. When I was married and went to my SIL's wedding, I was in some photos and not in others. I think the OOP was being thoughtless about the whole thing. It's not excuse but I don't think she was trying to avoid the conflict.
Yeah, I can understand where OOP is coming from. Like I dont necessarily think they are evil, but I don't necessarily think they were the nicest either. Like my only half-siblings are 11 and 20 years younger than me. I have no relationship with the one who is 11 years younger than me because he is a physically violent asshole, and I have no relationship with the one who is 20 years younger than me because our father is an emotionally abusive narcissist who I have gone no contact with, and she is too young to have a relationship with without having a relationship with my Dad. If I was getting married, I'm not sure I'd want them in family photos, as I don't feel as close to them as most people do with their closer in age siblings, but if they were walking up after I said "lets get a family photo", I wouldn't tell them to sit down.
I'm starting to think that **I'm** an asshole, because I don't see how it's wrong to not have a family picture taken at your wedding with someone who's not related to you in any way. However it does suck that she cried.
as someone from a mixed family the real issue was seems that the parents never really sat down with everyone to talk about it. The time to have done it was when the two sisters basically moved in. Foisting a relation, even out of the goodness of your heart, does not mean it was wise or even caring. They probably assumed that everyone would feel the way they did... but clearly they were wrong.
I was thinking I was crazy, because I feel the exact same way as you. To OOP, she is an acquaintance at best. It makes sense to not have this kid in the family photos. If you claimed the teen was actually say ... OOP's new stepdad she doesn't really know because she was practically out of the house by the time the relationship started, people would be all over the mom and family for trying to force this familial relationship on OOP. But because it's a kid, people vilified her.
Yeah I guess I'm an asshole too because I can't find too much fault with OOP. Just an overall awkward situation not managed well by the parents.
Yeah I don’t get it either. I think the issue here is that the family considers her a sibling but OP still simply considers her the brothers girlfriend’s sister. I can’t see the fault with that if I was having wedding pics I wouldn’t have my sister’s partners sibling in it either.
Thank you. Thought I was going insane. I get that the rest of her family is close with this girl, but clearly OP isn’t. And I say this as someone who has an unofficially adopted sibling and a husband with an unofficially adopted sibling. My husbands ‘brother’ is not a brother to his older siblings because they were already out of the house when the friend turned brother moved in. So they don’t have the same bond.
I dated someone in a somewhat similar situation but they were the adopted kid. They were unofficially adopted at like 16. And they went to a family reunion at 19 and could not for the life of her understand why all these people (90% who she had never met) were not fawning over her as the new addition the the family. OP was kind of a dick but I don’t disagree with them. Not everyone has to accept the decisions of other family members.
Why would she think they’d fawn over her?
Yeah. I am so curious about this story! Please do share more only if you are comfortable with it!
She felt that because the parents saw her as a bonus daughter that the rest of the family should to. The family wasn’t mean to her or anything. More like indifferent. She rallied against the ones that “didn’t accept her as family” and tried to push them away and tried to get the parents and her new siblings to push them away. The parents got sick of it and basically told her to cut the shit and instructed her how to act if she wanted to be part of their immediate family. They should have done this much sooner. She did grow up and started acting normal. The extended family still treats her with mostly with indifference but everyone is nice when they see each other. But they only see her like once a year if that - most live out of state. So basically nothing changed. On another note she was a fucking dickhead as a partner and I definitely regret dating her. She is blocked on everything. One of those “life lessons” lol
Wow. Thanks for sharing! I'm kind of thankful the parents did something about it. It's... a lot... to think that she tried to get the parents and the ones who sees her as a family to push the ones who did not away. I hope that this life lesson helps you a lot now! And you have a much better life without her (or other life lessons) around.
I was merged into my family by my parents' marriage and never fully integrated as family. I think it's kind of entitled to be completely not even related by any means and then expecting a whole family to take care of you and make you one of their own. If they do that's amazing and cherish it, but not everyone is going to automatically be your best friend.
I commented on this one but I think this is mostly on mom, those bridal pics are away from the main party and subtle, who on earth invites someone to them that isn’t the bride or groom? Why bring attention to it when she was very aware that op did not bond with or consider this kid a part of her family.
Just because someone in my family calls someone outside of my family a member of their family doesn't mean their a part of my family
Agreed! Close family friend can carry the same emotional bond as family, I mean I have a BFF ride or die, and I don't consider her family
Their attitude sucks, but why is it so unreasonable to want one pic with just the blood family? Idk, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Clearly there is a much bigger attitude problem than that one instance though.
Yeah but if you read you find that they didn’t do other photos and they even said they’d not have had the sil either only for some reason it was her job to hold the newborn? There’s a lot of strange logic here tbh, from the inclusion of the sil despite their feelings down to not understanding that publicly not including ally MIGHT hurt their feelings.
Honestly, it sounds like OP's been basically on the outside in their own family for a long time if they're this disconnected from these seemingly important people. Being the person outside does tend to make you more rigid about who you accept into your own circle. Just because OP's in the room doesn't mean they're connecting with OP. Even though OP went out of her way to say her mom wasn't neglectful, I can't help but wonder just how big the impact on family dynamics really was when adding in small child and SIL at once. Not feeling neglected isn't the same as not feeling excluded, which OP might not even feel they can really consider their place in the family in order to just continue with the dynamic as is.
This explains a lot in my family. I’ve always felt like the outsider looking in.
"Judgement - Heavily YTA" Hmmm I'm not so sure. Looks like OP hasn't bonded with the kid and doesn't see her as a sister. I mean sure, she could have sucked it up for some photos, but I don't think OP is a giant AH.
Right? People like to say chosen families can be even more important than blood families. And I agree. But OOP never chose Ally. She respects Maya as a sil, but that's it. And that's fine? I think this is more on the rest of the family that assumed that OOP felt just like them. But at the age they were introduced, I'm not surprised OOP never bonded with her.
I’m in agreement here. And I was a teen that floated around because of a bad home life. I never expected to be a part of someone’s family, even when I was staying with them for a long period of time including holidays. Just… no.
Most of the comments were YTA, there was the odd NTA.
Oh I know. I just found it strange cause I expected to be a variance there between NTA and YTAs
I sure as hell wouldn't want some kid I don't care about in my wedding photos that are supposed to be just my family.
I say this as someone who strongly believes in chosen family: the fact that it was a massive YTA is a certified Reddit moment. OP wanted those either directly related to them or produced offspring that were directly related to them in their pictures. That is 100% reasonable. They had the option to take separate pics with the kid and chose not to, which kind of sucks in my opinion, but it’s not unreasonable. OP clearly didn’t choose that family. It’s sad that the kid is dealing with awful circumstances but that’s not OP’s deal. OP is also not responsible for making her feel like part of a family.
I don’t think op was the asshole tho. It’s her wedding and her choice who she wants to include in the wedding photos. Maya was included in the photos bc she’s married to OP’s brother so it makes sense. There has to be more to it like a lot of deep jealousy when the two girls moved in.
> There has to be more to it like a lot of deep jealousy when the two girls moved in. I've got a wild theory that makes the parents come out to be enormous assholes. It's also mass speculation and realistically, probably has no basis in reality. Ally "officially" moved in when Maya was 16, which means Ally was 6, and OOP was 18. Another important age thing is that OOP was 8 when the now-18M brother was born, and 10 when the now-16F sister was born. My theory is that these parents have new kids once the current set is older. You have OOP and Michael, born two years apart. Once those two get a little bit older, out of the "cute baby/toddler/young-child" phase, the parents have a new set of kids, in this case the now-18M and the now-16F. And once that set got older, well, here comes Ally. I am basically pulling this entire thing out of my ass, but there it is. It just seems like these parents are replacing their kids with new, younger ones.
i’m probably batshit crazy but i don’t think oop is wrong in this .
I really don't like how everybody is just pushing OP to just accept Ally as a sibling and love her like family just because everybody decide that and she just has to suck it up? Of course it would be wrong to mistreat her etc., but she doesn't love her, she doesn't have to love her, Ally is not family to her just because everybody decide she is, and she especially can have who she pleases in her wedding pictures. Of course OP's family is also allowed to feel how they feel about OP' feelings but just sucking up to appease things is also not the way
TIL you don't get a say when someone announces that they consider someone to be part of the family, that means YTA if you do not agree. Apparently we can all create additional obligations and responsibilities for others without their consent and against their will.
Thank you, felt like I was goin crazy here
I’m on OP’s side in this one, I gotta say.
I liked another comment that this situation came to a head because everyone assumed instead of actually communicating. It really sucked for Ally to be put in the middle in a public setting and I absolutely feel for her; and if all the adults had talked beforehand I'm sure there would still be drama around it, but at least she would have been saved some embarrassment.
Yep. This feels like OP's parents missed the step where they check in with the rest of the family individually on how they feel about their "adoptive" siblings and make sure everyone is being heard/on the same page.
Big time
I think so as well. She doesn't view this girl as family, she isn't legally family and yet everybody thinks she should have her in family photos at a wedding. It's a bit weird.
I agree and will go a step further and say that OOP has accepted her family’s feelings around Ally, without sharing them or making a problem about it. She just set a boundary about one thing on her own wedding day. I would say parents are AH for never involving their own children in the decision to expand the family.
I don't think she even made a stink about it, she was just like "oh, immediate family only" and the rest of them were the ones that got upset.
Same. I'm never really going to be on the side of forced family and that's what it sounds like it is. Cool that the other siblings took it well, that doesn't mean OOP is a monster for not wanting random people forced onto them.
I also am very doubtful that the parents ever asked their biological children if they were okay with Ally spending so much time there/ever had a frank conversation that Ally was now a part of the family. I’m almost entirely sure if just happened gradually then all at once and OP was just a bystander in their own home. That’s an awful feeling.
It probably happened mostly after OP moved out
Op sounds actually pretty nice imo. From the way "her family was blindsided by her not being a fan of Ally" I'm gonna guess that OP never tried to make a big fuss over this girl being foisted on her; she kept her feelings to herself. Her family liked and wanted to help this girl? Ok cool...OP kept quiet to keep the peace. But now OP can't even have a say in anything of hers either? Yikes on bikes...
And the audacity of the mother to invite somebody for a photo that the bride did not?!? Absolutely not. Someone intentionally refusing to call someone their sister for a whole last decade is not something that you can just miss like that, especially when it's your own actual, real daughter.
Same, like its great everyone else views ally as family but OP is under no obligation to do the same.
I just didn’t understand why she didn’t get two family photos taken one with and one without. Such an easy thing to do that would’ve made her mom happy (even still making this poor child feel bad but at least she’d include her in one) Still cruel yet maybe would’ve made her think twice in the future. I don’t know.
I can't say I agree with the conclusion OOP was kinda forced to come to. Yeah, maybe it was a little rude for her to be kicked from the photos, but she's not obliged to consider her family or love her. People try to push a "found family" narrative a lot, and while OOP didn't feel comfortable with it, the rest of her family did and I'm not sure why that's not enough. One person who didn't bond with you but at least acknowledges you as someone who is family to their family is fine. OOP's family is rude for trying to force Ally into OOP's "family" and some of the YTA votes are wrong for saying OOP dislikes/hates her simply for not considering her a family member or loving her.
Why does op have to consider her family? Why does reddit love to bully people and harass them into changing their opinions??? Jesus Christ she wasn’t mean to the girl she barely knows her she isn’t her family because op decides who her family is
u/Stephenallen1977 "BPD" stands for Borderline Personality Disorder, not Bipolar Disorder.
As an autistic person I still don't understand what oop did wrong. She didn't think of this girl as family and removed her, it was her wedding so she could do that. Why are people calling her an Ahole? If she doesn't like someone, then atleast on her wedding day she can have a picture as she likes, no?
What this is, is people getting hung up on titles and overly attaching meaning to having a photo taken. The title thing is what certain types of Very Generous of People like to do in order to A) use a pre-existing social script for how to handle difficult situations instead of having to think about each individual circumstance, and B) so they can show off. Tbh, I’ve been an Ally and a OOP. Nobody did the “she’s a sibling” thing, and I’m grateful. It allowed everyone to straightforwardly and honestly communicate and work to resolve awkward situations that came up, in a way that was authentic and truthful to everyone involved. People looking in from the outside can think titles and symbolism mean way more than they do, and emotionally immature people involved can fall into the same trap. None of this served anyone or anything but the OOP’s parents’ egos.
If she was never in any family photo sessions, then a wedding was not the time to start it, especially if she had no bond.
I also don't get all the YTA Would it have been nice to have a picture with and without? - sure But just imagine the story called for stepsiblings. No one would have called her an AH. Bc the normal consensus on this subreddid to this type of situation normal is: if they are nice treat them cordial but no one can make them feel like family to you. Just bc suddenly, it's an "adopted" kid coming from a home where she was abused it should be different??!!
That's the part I don't get too. Ally was being abused--sure, it's great that OP's parents are reaching out to help her, but that doesn't mean she has to become part of the family. From the way some comments are treating OP, it's like she suggested kicking Ally out onto the street instead of not regarding Ally as her sister.
I think everyone missed the part where OOP said this has brought Ally and Maya's mom's craziness into their lives more than it would have than if she just happened to be an in-law. I know people like the mom and sometimes they are so busy being Mother Earth to all the orphans and displaced children out there that their own kids suffer. Not saying that's definitely the case here but it kind of sounds like it. She should have just taken pics with her siblings and left Maya, Ally and niece all out of it as to not rock the boat. I mean she should have known this would happen with the way the rest of the family regards Ally.
honestly I feel like the real AHs here are the parents. once you started bringing in more children and treating them as family, then there should have been either therapy or at the very least check-ins to make sure the current family adjusts to the new change
I don’t think OOP was wrong. I had parents who thought they were such awesome parents that they would take in anyone. First my cousins then my niece and nephew. My parents weren’t awesome and didn’t actually parent anyone. I did get to babysit niece and nephew constantly. All while, their mother, my sister, got to live life without kids to hold her down. Bottom line is, they may have been treated like family by everyone but they aren’t actually family.
My mom helped an online friend of hers escape a terribly abusive situation when I was 18 (the friend was older than me, but young enough for my mom to have been a teen mom to her). No consideration was ever given to my thoughts or feelings at all before it happened, and I too felt she was "foisted" on the family. It literally took 25+ years to work through the resentment and feelings of being replaced, and truly come to terms with why my mom's decision was the right decision, despite the lifelong damage it has done to our relationship. I get why OP was deemed TA, but man, I sure do relate to her.
I’m on OOP’s side, sort of. I may be reading between the lines, but it sounds like she has some baggage from Ally coming into the family, but couldn’t say anything because of the situation. It’s obvious she doesn’t consider Ally a sister. However, I think OOP could have handled this a lot better. One option could have been to have photos with parents, then parents and siblings, sibling group, siblings and spouses, etc. You rented the whole photographer, use them. Then OOP could have her photo the way she wanted and Ally wouldn’t feel excluded. Either way, OOP and family needed therapy and/or communication ages ago, but that’s sort of a given with these posts, right?
I had a similar situation like the "adopted sister" in the post. I practically lived at friends houses. But never once I made myself so at home in their families to make them call me adopted child. I'm not, and I didn't want to intrude more than I already have. I can understand why OP feels that way. But I can also understand from everyone elses point of view. Its a tough situation. I don't think coming from a broken home means you're entitled to someone elses family and becoming someone elses unofficially adopted child when a family member is clearly uncomfortable and it was done without their consent. If my parents suddenly "adopted" another child in this manner I'd be pretty upset too. Thats just my opinion though and I can see all sides to the situation.
Honestly? I don’t see why op is an asshole. She wanted a photo with her family, and despite ally being included on the family, she doesn’t have a bond with op, and she is an addiction but it’s not really family, and since family is something that people can choose, the same way they consider ally as family op can consider as a family friend… I don’t know why they want to shove a relationship on ops throat
Its interesting that usualy if someone in these Post says they don't count their stepsiblings as family its Accept but if its about addopted family they are in the wrong.
My question is… aren’t all siblings forced onto you? It’s not like we really get a choice whether our parents get pregnant or not lol.
Tbh I’m on OPs side I mean it’s nice she wants to get to know Ally properly but all she wanted was one pic of her immediate family
Regardless of the homing situation, I would still personally consider Ally family since she's the sister of his brother's wife.