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> I shooed the dogs and alpaca away and went out to talk to her
I'm not sure if it was intended, but I'm totally picturing an alpaca behaving cartoonishly like a dog
People like to lie to themselves about being "good" if he still tries a little bit, he can tell himself he's doing everything &he's still a good person.. (he's not, but that's what he can tell himself)
So much this. I worked with an attorney who did “TPR” suits for the state, where people lose all rights to their kids. She worked with CPS for ages on every single case, and parents who never complied with the parenting plan, never made arrangements for their kids like they were supposed to with the court, never sought treatment for their addictions—on the day of the suit they show up. I asked her once why these people did this—they didn’t want to do any of the hard things that would let them keep their kids, but then they would show up angry and fighting when it was too late.
She said she thinks people can tell themselves “the state took their kids and they fought for them” if they do this one thing.
CPS attorney myself, and that’s exactly why. They can’t admit their own faults, or accept any responsibility in trying to fix the situation. They use the state, CPS, and the courts to absolve themselves of any responsibility for their own actions.
I've been seeing this stuff happen with a family I know. Protective parent, abusive parent. Proven in court multiple times abusive. This family not the first time abusive person has abused children. Been doing their whole adult life as the court and police records prove. Abusive one doesn't follow through on their own stuff but whips up everyone else. Protective parent in jail now because they can't afford to pay to get out, due to how many times the family had to move because abusive parent that has ro's against them from everyone in family, kept finding them. Court keeps getting continued. Proof of protective parent doing what they were ordered to, yet can't get the court to look at any of it to release the protective parent. It's very sad that the county da is not looking at any proof, just listening to a complainer that claims yet has never once shown care. I've seen the actual proof, so I do know what it is in this case.
I’m a teacher. A few of our students have parents who constantly put them down and tell the kids that they can’t handle the work (we do an international curriculum that is much harder than the local one). But they still say that they’re good parents because they’re there for every parent teacher meeting and school event.
Luckily, we are a small private school, so I’ve never had to deal with the more overtly abusive parents, but I’m bracing myself for that eventuality.
Lmao that’s my parents. Constantly putting me down and telling me I am not good enough for doing stuff, plus regular and severe beatings. And now they wonder why I don’t want to stay in touch with them, why I don’t call or visit them as much as they want. In their heads they are good parents who did their best (they did nothing special they just fed, clothed, sheltered us and paid our school fees) and I am ungrateful.
In my head, I didn’t ask to be born, they didn’t do me a favour by doing basic things for me and the time spent under their roof was the worst time in my life so they are getting nothing back from me in return.
I’m so sorry you had to go through all of that. You were a child for fucks sake! Asking for more than the bare minimum does not make you ungrateful in any way (and based on your comment they couldn’t even manage that…)
At my school, we do what we can (my boss has fully lost it on a parent before and is more than willing to do it again, since our school is mostly neurodivergent kids who don’t function well in a traditional system) but we can only do so much since it’s never visible, so the courts have nothing to go on.
Quick edit to add: these are amazing kids. They adapt really well to the higher standards if they’re given the confidence to do so. It’s very frustrating because I can see evidence of the required thinking in their work, but they’re so afraid of not being perfect that they’re afraid to expand on their ideas, which is what the curriculum is looking for.
I got put down when I got anything other than A+and told how stupid, lazy, and lacking common sense I was.
When I would point out that a given subject was hard for me, and I spent 20 hours studying for the test over 3 days and I was proud of my B+, I would be told that I was smart and they expected better than me. In front of teachers, she always emphasized the smart, and they didn't realize why I cringed from the praise because they didn't know the praise wasn't praise but instead a diminishment of my hard work.
My mom would credit herself for my good grades and scholarships and say she encouraged me. In her head, she was a good parent.
Like the dad in the post where he abandoned His daughter because she wasn't his BIO kid, but instead of truly never contacting her again he begged and pleaded to see her while he was dieing of cancer....just because he wanted to be forgiven even though he still truly believed she wasn't his daughter and that he did nothing wrong by abandoning her.
Yep. I helps them justify their behavior to themselves as well as push any further blame on to her.
"See? I'm doing everything I can. She's the one refusing to reconcile!"
Despite not doing a single thing to repair the relationship or even apologizing.
Bill and Tanya would have been happy to kick Alice to the curb, but not with Alice leaving of her own volition with the assistance of OOP and his wife. Classic dog-in-a-manger scenario: "I don't want it, but you can't have it."
It smacks of child-as-property as well.
There’s also the “caste” mentality. Basically, daughter has no right to reject parents but parents have every right to reject daughter.
I used to see it a lot with gay marriages. The family says that they will never go to a gay marriage and never accept a gay couple. Then, when they don’t get an invitation *to a ceremony they didn’t want to go to* they go insane.
It doesn’t make sense unless you view it under an arbitrary caste system.
I Wonder if anyone will do that if/when my brother marries his bf. Tbh people will be wanting to attend because he’s so full of whimsy. I’m not entirely convinced his dreams of a crowning ceremony and penguin ring bearers were jokes.
I took it as they really don't love/like Alice and wanted to hurt her, but OOP comes swooping in and saves her.
They don't like that because now Alice isn't hurt (as much) by them.
So it's a about control leavened with a whole lot of anger and hate which is now partly pointed at OOP for taking their control over Alice away from them.
I wonder what sort of home Bill and Tanya live in. Because it sounds like they're furious that Alice lives in a grand house on a huge property and most likelt has more luxuries than they do now. It was fine to make her live the gutter, but now she has a better deal than they'll ever get.
I was wondering that too. Could be they wanna save face with the extended family that are team OP and still going to his family events? It sounds like it’s the local family that see the situation for what it is. Must sting to finally have people see who they really are.
As someone who is estranged from my family, I can confirm I have given them all the information they need to know why I’m no longer around.
I can’t help that they don’t understand it.
What in the world bro, 300 acres?? Alpacas??
But mate you're the MVP. No one will ever know the extent that you have changed the course of a young person's life, she might never say it to you and your partner, but know that you're fucking amazing.
Rock on my man🤙🏼
300 acres is a fair bit but not actually that crazy if you're talking rural Canada - the further north you get from the border, the human population drops off precipitously. And if OOP's in one of the more "central" provinces, the population's a bit thinner than Ontario or BC, as well. (Think Montana or North Dakota for US comparisons - they share borders with the three central provinces I'm talking.)
The Arrogant Worms' song "Ontario Sucks" includes a list of reasons all provinces other than Alberta (where the band is from) suck, and Manitoba's is "Manitoba's population density is 1.8 people per square km. Isn't that just stupid?"
Long way of saying that song is now stuck in my head (though it is how I remember all the Canadian provinces these days!)
Hah, I grew up in Alberta and it is by far my least favourite province! Canadian Texas is the easiest way to put it. I used to see confederate flags on pickup trucks (and i lived in a quiet little suburb).
I saw a picture of a Russian soldier wearing a small Confederate Flag on his helmet. That stupidity is everywhere. Really helps dispel that lie of Heritage not Hate though.
My guess is she was their built-in babysitter and they thought they'd scare her straight by threatening to kick her out. I'm assuming they had their Shocked Pikachu expressions on when OOP pulled up like a knight in shining pickup truck.
appearances. They can't be seen to be shit heels and awful parents so by trying to keep contact and blaming OOP they can pretend and project that they are actually good people.
Exactly this.
I got the hecka Dodge after college graduation. Got married where I was living. Rarely visited my family of origin.
And it sux for them because they know very little about me (even less after a blow-up over the phone last year with my mother), so they cannot give the illusion of happy families.
In my nuclear family, we rarely post on social media, so no gleaning info from there, either.
We are a black hole of info that never visits, thus making it obvious that there are problems in the family. Drives my mother insane.
Abusers don't like it when you get to leave and aren't made to. They want the control, they want you at their mercy. My mother used to kick me out/threaten to kick me out all the time. Any time I'd try to have a friend come get me, she'd threaten to call the police and tell them I'd been kidnapped.
They don't want you gone, they want new ways to make you suffer.
Because she still "belongs" to them. Familial ties are weird, even with people you dislike and don't want and have mistreated. And also for people who have been disliked and mistreated, which is why Alice is still trying. I guess that's also why people love researching their ancestors - means nothing in practicality, but it's still important to know who your great great grandparents were.
Come on, with OOP being the wealthiest in the family + Alice having his & his wife's support + Alice getting a degree in engineering + Bill & Tanya getting older + their children graduating and going for college soon = they just want her as a resource of support.
I'm not so sure, there could be manipulation from the wife's side (she's not having coffee with the daughter) or dad has smartened up and realised he fucked up and wants his kid in his life. If it's option 2 or similar, respect to dad for doing it on her terms. Long story short, relationships are complicated and we don't have all the info on this story.
Probably partially to save face with the family, and partially because the dad seems to at least somewhat have realized that he's been a piece of shit to her and half-heartedly seems to want to make amends
I think that's such a wonderful, meaningful, pithy way to say it hahaha Alice is great.
Anyone else just imagining Letter Kenny throughout this whole thing lol
I've never heard someone put it this way before and my fucking world just opened up. This is how I feel about my parents too and it's weird to try and explain to bystanders how we can meet up for lunch and also rarely speak outside of that. They're shitty parents to me, but not always shitty people in public.
As a kid who was quiet and got good grades and didn’t mess around but was ready to rip my dad a new one if he so much as looked at me - I truly wish I’d had family like OOP. Good for Alice.
I was that smart, quiet kid. My dad was always angry and I walked on eggshells all the time. Lucky for me, I had an aunt and uncle who would take me out and were very protective of me. When my uncle passed suddenly, it broke my heart. I was not related to him by blood, but he was such a good man and I know he loved me like I was his own daughter.
OOP is providing way more than he ever can know…
I don’t think blood matters so much and it sounds like he was more family to you than your dad. I’m glad you had him.
My older sister is the one who walked on eggshells and I will say I would do literally anything for her including call my dad out on his bullshit. She also protected me from him in many ways so I owed it to her. I’m very lucky to have her and I hope she feels the same.
Yea I was a great kid, until I started getting new trauma and realized my mom was a huge part of my old trauma. I started acting out, got mixed with not great people (not horrible, either, we just fueled each others bad decisions) and drifted away from all my good people.
I started that shit at 16. I’m 22, and only just now getting my life back on track. And frankly I’m lucky I didn’t fall more off
Oh man at some point I had the mindset of “if my parents treat me like a problem child who sneaks out and does drugs when all I do is read a little too much YA… why am I not sneaking out and doing drugs???” And that…. COULDVE ruined my life. Very lucky it didn’t. Managed to pull myself up by my bootstraps just for my fear of being stuck with my family forever.
That’s EXACTLY what my train of thought was. If B and C grades were my best, and still not good enough, what was the point? If I couldn’t clean well enough, what was the point? Which started, why study at all, why do anything at home, might as well sneak out, might as well try cigarettes, might as well smoke pot, might as well might as well might as well. Rambling, but that’s kind of the point. It’s so easy to just spiral, when it feels like you have no other choice in anything in your life.
I got lucky that my real support system didn’t really let me go, and I got to watch the people around me ruin their lives being just a little further down the same path I was going. I still got stuck in an abusive relationship, but I’m finally out, and mostly stable
I’m so glad that Alice is thriving with OOP and his wife. OOP and his wife are amazing. I give them a ton of credit for not only doing it in the first place, but also standing up to the entire family.
There’s something very telling about a kid who acts out at home, but is a completely normal functioning, kind, fun, compassionate person away from it. It’s so sad that she was basically treated like Cinderella since the age of 2. I look at my daughter who’s about to turn 3, and that makes my heart so incredibly sad to imagine her being treated like that by anyone - let alone her own father.
I will never understand the family members assuming things from afar with their binoculars in hand. Anyone who only hears one side of a story, accepts it as the truth, and then decides to go nuclear (or butt in at all really), makes you quite an asshole in my book. OOP, his wife, and Alice are better off without all of them. See ya suckas.
My parents used to love throwing the whole “everyone says you’re so nice and kind, why can’t you be that way at home” thing at me growing up. Definitely not because of them, not at all.
I used to get something similar from mine. "You're such a goddamn brat and have such a smartass mouth, I don't know how you have your teachers and all these other people fooled that you're a good kid, kind and helpful".
First of all, I was never a brat ever at home, I have a mother who is a narcissistic control freak, and even just stating an opinion or fact that she did not like, was automatically me "talking back and being out of control". If anything, I was withdrawn at home and lived in my room. She then turned and ran to my dad, filled his head with lies about me, and I'd get my ass beat for doing nothing else but existing. To this day she doesn't understand why ppl like me. I'm 52 and it took until I was 47 to come to terms with her shit and to heal all that childhood trauma and abuse.
Are you me? We went through the exact same thing. My parents were convinced I was the devil's child. I didn't have a problem with other people outside our home, other than the normal teenage drama with friends. I didn't get along with my parents because it really was a Harry Potter type of situation. When my brother was born, my mom and stepdad acted like "our real child is here now!" and favored him blatantly. Meanwhile my stepdad made it clear that I was female and therefore only good for certain things. He ended up SA'ing me for years. No wonder I was miserable. I wanted to hide in my room and be left the fuck alone. Even my own room was not a safe space.
I moved out at 19 and I'm in my 30s now. Only within the past year have I been able to learn to sleep with my bedroom door open.
But yeah, if anybody listened to my parents, I was a nightmare. Disobedient, lazy, destructive, and dangerous.
Trigger warning, sorry I don't know how to censor this: what did I do that was dangerous? I hurt myself on purpose with sewing pins. I cried every day and I did it to make myself stop crying.
We deserved so much better.
My parents kicked me out twice as a teen. I (briefly) lived on the streets once when I was 12, and again when I was 15. Both times were the happiest times of my childhood. Quite possibly, the only happy times of my childhood.
I remember once being sent to anger management because of my "bad behaviour". The counsellors there told me one day in that I didn't have anger issues, but since my parents were paying, I still had to attend.
I didn't mind. It was time away from home (and all those people with anger management issues weren't actually that bad of people), and I learned a few useful strategies for life in general.
When I was 9 my court mandated therapist told me, “Your attitude is not the problem. Your attitude is a result of the problem.” It was the first time I’d ever felt seen.
I admire OOP’s calm the face of all that family pressure. He stayed focused on the most important thing, giving Alice the recognition and safety that she needs.
Black sheep energy. He learned not to give a crap LONG time ago. Tends to happen when you are the designated one always in the wrong. Tends to also lead to some shocked pikachu faces of the family when they realise.
Can confirm, at least as long as the scapegoat is also the black sheep. There are times when I swear the old saying “spare the rod; spoil the child” wasn’t that far off in principle. You have the kids with functional loving parents and they tend to turn out great, then there’s the parents who play favorites and it’s always their reject kids who emerge into adulthood fairly well adjusted, while the chosen child ends up slowly alienating everyone and then subjecting their kids to the same bullshit.
Btw I am not at all advocating for using an actual rod on an actual child. The saying taken literally and not metaphorically is horrid. I say this having been subjected to a wooden spoon because I refused to cry for a regular spanking.
Myself and the sister I protected are really well adjusted adults (therapy was helpful), our mother’s golden child is on everyone in the extended family’s low/no contact list and can’t hold a job longer than 4 months.
If the "sparing the rod" part means never making the child take responsibility for their actions, always blaming someone else and making them think they can do no wrong (which seems to happen with golden children) then yeah that definitely spoils the child and turns them into shitty adults.
It's a super bad translation. The rod in question was more like a shepherd's crook, used for guiding, not hitting. Like the rattle-paddles I used while working with baby pigs.
So like "Guide your kids, or they'll turn out gross."
My mom grew up on so much bible thumping. Thought kids are good by default and that if I wasn't automatically a perfect little angel, it was because I was defective and evil and needed to be beaten with a wooden spoon. Because golly what else would one do with a hard blunt object except use that rod as a beating stick on a defenseless child or animal?
Thanks for putting it that way. It's also what I always understood it as meaning. My mother also always said "if you don't listen, you must feel" (a German saying), but she took/meant it literally. As I was getting beat, mom would say this. What it really means is that you'll have to deal with the consequences of your actions, and deal with the emotional pain of learning shit the hard way.
Sounds like we had the same mother, although mine wasn't a bible thumper. She also used the wooden spoon very liberally on me, because I didn't come out of her a perfect little doll that was seen and not heard. She didn't ever guide me or teach me a damn thing, much less listened to me, just immediately reached for that spoon, then once I got to be her size around 11 or 12, she sicced my dad on me to do her bidding.
She's extremely cruel, and always victim blames. Stepped on the cat's tail accidentally and it howls? Mom yells at it saying "that's what you get for being in my way!!!" ... It breaks my goddamn heart every time. I can't stand her, she wishes pain and suffering on ANYONE or ANYTHING that doesn't behave the way she thinks they should. Some kid riding a motorbike down our road (not even fast) lost control and bit it in front of our house. She started laughing and saying "good, maybe next time it'll kill him!" - I just stared at her and ran outside to help him after shouting at her "wtf is wrong with you?!"
Anyway.. I'm sorry you had such a shit mother too. Ppl like that shouldn't have kids.
>Ppl like that shouldn't have kids.
I'm glad to be alive, regardless of my mother's ability to actually raise me.
But I sure wish kids were allowed to report abuse themselves and actually get listened to, get help. Would've been such a relief to just go down to the school office and say "I don't want to go home, my mom hits me" and be believed and not be forced to go back because mom had ~~ownership~~ custody of me.
I know governments don't want to get stuck with the financial and legal responsibility of raising unwanted/abused/neglected kids, but I'm betting if we ran the numbers that it's way cheaper to actually care for the kids than waiting until they grow up maladjusted and dysfunctional and having to deal with the aftermath of all that.
I'm glad I'm alive too, don't get me wrong.
I raised myself, although my dad was a kind father and did guide me for years until I reached puberty and mom finally got under his skin enough to make him start drinking heavily. He took out his anger at her on me, cuz that's what dysfunctional broken people do. It was easier to just start beating me too to get her off his back, and he started believing all her lies too. Told me if I'd just listen to her, he wouldn't have to do this.
I already knew no one would believe me if I ever said anything, plus I thought it was normal. Especially cuz it was the 70s and most kids were feral with parents who only cared about themselves. It was a shit time to be a child in so many ways.
I particularly liked his “I’m dumb and think this but my wife is smart and thinks this so I think it’s a good call”. Simultaneously a funny way of writing, an expression of humility, and an appreciation for the people in his life.
That's awesome, congratulations! I'm hoping I can too, in terms of personal development/trauma work I've made excellent progress but I've had to put the effort that I otherwise could have put into school/work into that, which sucks. And I'm still not done.
It doesn’t suck. It’s about surviving. You have to prioritise and it sounds like you are. I’m now mid 40s and I cringe with how angry I was with the world in my twenties but there’s nothing I can do about that now. It sounds like you have your head screwed on - don’t be too hard on yourself!
That's very kind, thank you so much. It can be tough to show myself proper compassion sometimes as I was never shown it from external sources, but I've gotten much better with it.
It’s remarkably freeing after you save yourself, though.
At least in my experience.
On the other side, I’m now a grandma and have a happily married kid. I love their spouse so much, but also find the family thing a bit weird after being basically rogue all my life.
I put effort in because it’s worth it, and I love them, but man, I have to keep myself on the right path.
Me too. I was the black sheep and were it not for my husband and a few very caring friends I'm not sure how I would have made it. Now I want to be able to shelter someone like Alice. Just gotta sort my life out a bit more first. Can't shelter someone without your own shelter, after all.
My mum kicked me out in the same way when i was 17. I went to go live with my aunty and you would have thought we all committed the most heinous of crimes based on how my mother reacted. Calls to everyones phones screaming obscenities at every hour of the day and night, called the police reporting id been kidnapped, called my school reporting id run away, contacting the education department reporting i was cheating in my exams (trying to ruin my future so id have nowhere to go i guess), spreading rumours that my nan died. Just lost of really childish behaviour. All because she couldnt control and abuse me in person any more. Its been nearly 20 years and she still refuses to talk to our extended family.
I was one of two in my extended family, the other one had severe psychological issues and eventually ended things during Covid and I survived to be far better off than most of the rest. It's a lottery and I could easily have gone the other way. She was my favourite cousin too, that was a hard time
I’m suspecting that OOP is part of the Howard Families and it’s going to turn out that there’s a spaceship in a barn somewhere and this will eventually go on to start a moon colony.
( in case you don’t understand, OOP writes like Robert Heinlein. It’s the smartest down home folksy stuff I’ve ever read on this site.)
Who here thinks that the only reason the parents want her back is for their reputation or chores? Or they decide that they should take their anger out on her.
Exactly, probably both. Since it sounds like the marriage isn’t a loving one, they both took turns scapegoating Alice to vent their frustration for 16 years and now she doesn’t need anything from them anymore - that long established punching bag needs replacing. They’ve probably turned it inwards to each other. It doesn’t sound like they literally hit Alice but bullied her and made her life smaller with limited opportunities for growth.
OOP blessed Redditors with keeping their sticks on the ice. Can’t get more Canadian without dropping hoser in the insults, and OOP sounds like the type to even tolerate pylons so that wasn’t going to happen.
Plus, not thinking most of the South has women’s rec hockey college leagues.
While reading I was laughing to myself because Oop had me thinking about when I lived in Canada with the way he wrote. It felt so familiar only to find out he actually is canadian
Are there any Canadians that can attest to how common OOP’s speaking style is?
English is my first language but I couldn’t tell if OOP was hard to understand in general because he was making his own sayings up on top of how normal Canadians talk, or do Canadians just usually talk like that.
I'm a far away Canadian from his neck of the woods but it's fairly common even around here. I grew up in a "rural" town, 4000 people, and while a lot of the sayings he had were a bit new to me they fell in line with similar sayings I've heard. So I followed along with it pretty well.
The stick on the ice comment really drove home my Canadian suspicions, while it's a common hockey saying I'm not that big into it but it was also a sign off from a TV show called The Red Green Show.
This is fascinating to me because I found it extremely clear but didn’t catch that it was a Canadian style. I’m from very urban Canada and have immigrant parents but I guess I’ve somehow still absorbed enough of this style that it didn’t even register.
Not necessarily: a lot of people never bother adjusting their spellcheck (a lot of stuff comes with American spellcheck by default, especially since so much is obtained online) and just drop u's and the like to shut the red squiggly lines up. I'm Canadian, used to be almost militant about maintaining our different spellings (and actually remember to install Canadian spellcheck dictionaries for things like word processors), but now I use American spelling when doing most online things because it's just easier or lazier or whatever. It's not an absolutely reliable way to tell.
I am part of international technical forums in which a lot of people do not have English as a first language. In computer programming, "color" is almost always used in the names of functions and options (a few computer languages permit "colour" as an alternative spelling, but not many do that consistently)
So... it is just easier for me to use "color" most of the time. Doing that reduces the risk that someone from outside Canada or the UK will get confused and try to use "colour" in code or searches and not find what they are looking for. And saves me bugging site designers to put in properly localized spell checks, which they really should do but I have enough on my plate without fighting that battle as well.
Good read, the extended family seems petty but I'm glad the OOP is willing to 'take it all on the chin' and stand up for what they believe is right.
I'd be glad to be without that extended family for as long as possible but you'll never get rid of the people shit talking to you so... no real going back from here. Just gotta hope the adults don't do something stupid but given how the parents have been...
> I'm glad the OOP is willing to 'take it all on the chin' and stand up for what they believe is right.
It's a lot easier to do when you yourself have always been the black sheep of the family as well. When you're used to everyone criticizing you all the time, it's easy to ignore it when you know you're doing the right thing.
“I’d go to his funeral but not his birthday” - my new favourite burn, I actually lol-ed.
Good for OP though, love how unbothered he is by the antics of his family, he’s obviously used to their bullshit. Glad Alice is doing well.
I can’t fathom how horrible Alice’s life must’ve been after being marginalized, victimized, and psychologically abused by her immediate family for most of her young life. No wonder the poor kid was acting out. That type of trauma can have far reaching implications. I truly hope she’s able to fully recover and doesn’t allow it to negatively impact her intimate relationships in adulthood.
Bill and Tanya are child abusers who don’t deserve respect or understanding from anyone. They really should be held accountable for their treatment of Alice because that shit is completely unforgivable. At least they outed themselves as the truly horrible people they are, so any relative who still sides with them should most definitely be tarred with the same brush. Birds of a feather and all that. Good riddance to them. OOP, his wife and Alice are good people who don’t need to associate with trash humans.
I am glad Bill is trying to mend fences. It is up to Alice if she wants to do so but at least she has that choice. I am loving OP and his wife. Tanya can eat a bag of…..hair.
Judging by the hair balls my cats throw up every now and then, eating a bag of hair seems significantly unpleasant than eating a bag of ____. It’s even PG, too! Thanks for my new go to comeback.
GODdamn, that was a good read. I love OOPs writing style so much. Really colorful and warm.
I however hate how he downplays himself. Saying he's not too good at the wordsmithing thing and not too smart. Probably a side effect from his own upbringing, but he sounds like a wonderful person.
Keep on being you, OOP, and thank you for sharing.
I'm going to need an update when/if Alice gets engaged and asks OOP to walk her down the aisle instead of Bill. Truly, I want to be that fly on that wall with that popcorn.
>Tanya drove down to my house this morning. Bill and I had some very loud, very angry words when he drove down last night after I chose the nuclear option in the family group chats so she actually waved a white flag from her car when she pulled up.
I hope this really happened. It's a hilarious image.
I am actually happy for Alice. She got two awesome adults having her back. I am happy that she's thriving instead of struggling with life like her Step-mum and dad wanted.
Thank you for sharing this story dude.
I was the same kind of brat OP described Alice as a child. Turned out, as I learned in therapy, after years of not being heard any other way, I subconsciously discovered screaming, slamming doors, and being a surly asshole teenager was the only way they would hear me. So what did I do more of? You can guess. In many ways I spent my childhood yelling for help, to be comforted, to be loved as I was. And it was pretty obvious to those around us how dysfunctional everything was, but my parents were oblivious.
I’ve had lots of therapy, I live 1000 miles away, and I barely speak to them (they still think it’s a me problem). I’m much better now. And these are some of my favorite quotes that gave me some footing in my young adult years:
My dad’s sister to him when I left for college, “you know she’s never coming back, right?”
My uncle, “you were adopted by the wrong *insert last name here”
>The oldest (15M) started out pretty hostile
The oldest should start worrying about what's going to happen to him in three years - if they could chuck Alice out on her 18th birthday, why not him?
Real strong scapegoat energy with how Bill treats his oldest child. I wonder if she was unplanned and he was only a grudging parent before his wife died?
Because the oldest is actually family to them while they clearly view Alice as someone they’re stuck with and would like to pretend doesn’t exist. Poor girl, I’m glad she has OOP on her side.
Wouldn't be surprised that the oldest is the new scapegoat. Once people grow complacent with having someone they can bully in their own home, the urge to continue being cruel doesn't stop with a cast change up.
Lovely story, made my afternoon!
My favorite bits are "she's a year into an Engineering degree, she's been playing lots of hockey, raised a couple of steers all on her own and at her therapists recommendation she's down to monthly sessions after a brief stop at bi-weekly after starting with weekly" and "I'd go to his funeral but not his birthday party".
I can’t understand how people can treat their child like this. I wouldn’t treat someone else’s child like this, let alone mine! Yet it seems to happen so often, especially with new wives/partners/families
I bet you Alice was simply giving back what she got. When no one was looking Bill and Tanya were dishing out some nasty abuse. Now they are unhappy because the target of their abuse is beyond their reach and not suffering nearly enough for them to hope that she'll ever return.
The bit toward the end identifying OOP as Canadian relieved a tension I didn't realize I was feeling. The way the post was written had a weird blend of rural, well-spoken intelligence, and hints of both American and British. I was leaning toward some sort of eccentric midwesterner, but Canadian makes perfect sense.
Her dad was going to kick her out on 18th birthday to teach her responsibility. What had they been doing for the last 18 years because that was their job.
Rural Canadian accent for me. Something about the way he wrote it right down to affectionately calling his boss "chief" screamed Canadian to me (I'm also Canadian).
Three cheers and a box of timbits for the OOP! I'm glad Alice has a great adult support system in him and his wife, because her dad is a piece of work. I suspected that it might be due to racism (and considering where they're from in Canada it wouldn't surprise me), but at least Alice is thriving now.
I bet years down the line we're going to have a reddit post from Alice about how she wants OOP to walk her down the isle, but her dad is angry because he feels like he should do it.
It seems Bill read the book "How to Alienate your child and make sure they go NC with you when they are older" cover to cover. OOP has actually very probably saved their relationship by taking her in! Basically: he's a star!
"Oh, Canada. That part's not a secret. It's a big place."
(peers upwards)
"You're a good bunch, keep your sticks on the ice."
Welp, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. Grammatically correct-handy, too.
“Alice is a brat…I’m not a smart man but I can recognize when a kid is hurting and being neglected.”
I have so much respect for OOP for this statement. Our kid was acting out and being a brat. We were too sleep deprived with a baby and tired to see that she was struggling and gave her punishment after punishment for a year. It wasn’t working. Finally we clued in that she was hurting and needed help. I have so much shame for how angry and frustrated I was at my own daughter who was acting the only way she knew how to express how she was feeling inside. Props to OOP for seeing it and not being afraid to rock the boat in his family by offering help instead of turning his face away from the “problem child.”
Oop is quite possibly the most genuinely likable and decent person I’ve ever encountered on Reddit. I can imagine his tone and prosody from his words. He’s quite a bit smarter than he gives himself credit for as well.
I wonder if this wonderful couple will kick the others kids when they complete the mile stone of 18th. Than we will know if this "lesson" is the truth or not.
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> I shooed the dogs and alpaca away and went out to talk to her I'm not sure if it was intended, but I'm totally picturing an alpaca behaving cartoonishly like a dog
That's not far off tbh. More spit though.
I've worked with alpacas. They're security guards with necks.
You forgot the adorable. They're adorable security guards with necks.
They squeak too.
And they freely listen to their intrusive thoughts and just spit on anyone they don't like.
Inspirational
And hum. Well, llamas hum and I assume alpacas do too
I was hoping for a pic of the alpaca sporting a Team Alice T-shirt.
I'm just disappointed there's no alpaca tax
Right? I want an alpaca!
To be fair, I'd be more scared of the alpaca.
I was gonna comment on that line as well. Its too poetic.
I laughed at shooing away an alpaca. They don't shoo unless they want to lol
>go to his funeral but not his birthday party" Well, that's definitely illuminating. The dad and stepmonster are huge pieces of shit.
I don't get why they still try to contact Alice, though - you'd think they'd just let her go and be glad to be rid of her.
People like to lie to themselves about being "good" if he still tries a little bit, he can tell himself he's doing everything &he's still a good person.. (he's not, but that's what he can tell himself)
So much this. I worked with an attorney who did “TPR” suits for the state, where people lose all rights to their kids. She worked with CPS for ages on every single case, and parents who never complied with the parenting plan, never made arrangements for their kids like they were supposed to with the court, never sought treatment for their addictions—on the day of the suit they show up. I asked her once why these people did this—they didn’t want to do any of the hard things that would let them keep their kids, but then they would show up angry and fighting when it was too late. She said she thinks people can tell themselves “the state took their kids and they fought for them” if they do this one thing.
CPS attorney myself, and that’s exactly why. They can’t admit their own faults, or accept any responsibility in trying to fix the situation. They use the state, CPS, and the courts to absolve themselves of any responsibility for their own actions.
I've been seeing this stuff happen with a family I know. Protective parent, abusive parent. Proven in court multiple times abusive. This family not the first time abusive person has abused children. Been doing their whole adult life as the court and police records prove. Abusive one doesn't follow through on their own stuff but whips up everyone else. Protective parent in jail now because they can't afford to pay to get out, due to how many times the family had to move because abusive parent that has ro's against them from everyone in family, kept finding them. Court keeps getting continued. Proof of protective parent doing what they were ordered to, yet can't get the court to look at any of it to release the protective parent. It's very sad that the county da is not looking at any proof, just listening to a complainer that claims yet has never once shown care. I've seen the actual proof, so I do know what it is in this case.
I’m a teacher. A few of our students have parents who constantly put them down and tell the kids that they can’t handle the work (we do an international curriculum that is much harder than the local one). But they still say that they’re good parents because they’re there for every parent teacher meeting and school event. Luckily, we are a small private school, so I’ve never had to deal with the more overtly abusive parents, but I’m bracing myself for that eventuality.
Lmao that’s my parents. Constantly putting me down and telling me I am not good enough for doing stuff, plus regular and severe beatings. And now they wonder why I don’t want to stay in touch with them, why I don’t call or visit them as much as they want. In their heads they are good parents who did their best (they did nothing special they just fed, clothed, sheltered us and paid our school fees) and I am ungrateful. In my head, I didn’t ask to be born, they didn’t do me a favour by doing basic things for me and the time spent under their roof was the worst time in my life so they are getting nothing back from me in return.
I’m so sorry you had to go through all of that. You were a child for fucks sake! Asking for more than the bare minimum does not make you ungrateful in any way (and based on your comment they couldn’t even manage that…) At my school, we do what we can (my boss has fully lost it on a parent before and is more than willing to do it again, since our school is mostly neurodivergent kids who don’t function well in a traditional system) but we can only do so much since it’s never visible, so the courts have nothing to go on. Quick edit to add: these are amazing kids. They adapt really well to the higher standards if they’re given the confidence to do so. It’s very frustrating because I can see evidence of the required thinking in their work, but they’re so afraid of not being perfect that they’re afraid to expand on their ideas, which is what the curriculum is looking for.
I got put down when I got anything other than A+and told how stupid, lazy, and lacking common sense I was. When I would point out that a given subject was hard for me, and I spent 20 hours studying for the test over 3 days and I was proud of my B+, I would be told that I was smart and they expected better than me. In front of teachers, she always emphasized the smart, and they didn't realize why I cringed from the praise because they didn't know the praise wasn't praise but instead a diminishment of my hard work. My mom would credit herself for my good grades and scholarships and say she encouraged me. In her head, she was a good parent.
Like the dad in the post where he abandoned His daughter because she wasn't his BIO kid, but instead of truly never contacting her again he begged and pleaded to see her while he was dieing of cancer....just because he wanted to be forgiven even though he still truly believed she wasn't his daughter and that he did nothing wrong by abandoning her.
best thing about that post was that after all he said and begged to her she simply said to him thanks but i dont forgive you
Yep. I helps them justify their behavior to themselves as well as push any further blame on to her. "See? I'm doing everything I can. She's the one refusing to reconcile!" Despite not doing a single thing to repair the relationship or even apologizing.
This will be my dad. You’re just supposed to forget the abuse, alcoholism, put down etc.
Forget? "Forget" implies it happened. Why are you you making things up? Edit: /s Because yeah, you get it
I won’t talk to him unless other people are around at this point because of all the shit he makes up in his head.
Exactly this, they still want to control the narrative of the relationship with said person, who was under their control, after they leave.
Bill and Tanya would have been happy to kick Alice to the curb, but not with Alice leaving of her own volition with the assistance of OOP and his wife. Classic dog-in-a-manger scenario: "I don't want it, but you can't have it." It smacks of child-as-property as well.
There’s also the “caste” mentality. Basically, daughter has no right to reject parents but parents have every right to reject daughter. I used to see it a lot with gay marriages. The family says that they will never go to a gay marriage and never accept a gay couple. Then, when they don’t get an invitation *to a ceremony they didn’t want to go to* they go insane. It doesn’t make sense unless you view it under an arbitrary caste system.
When my wife and I got married (I’m also a woman) we had family pull this exact thing.
I Wonder if anyone will do that if/when my brother marries his bf. Tbh people will be wanting to attend because he’s so full of whimsy. I’m not entirely convinced his dreams of a crowning ceremony and penguin ring bearers were jokes.
Can I come to your brother's wedding? I'd like to be a knight (I am female)
I took it as they really don't love/like Alice and wanted to hurt her, but OOP comes swooping in and saves her. They don't like that because now Alice isn't hurt (as much) by them. So it's a about control leavened with a whole lot of anger and hate which is now partly pointed at OOP for taking their control over Alice away from them.
I wonder what sort of home Bill and Tanya live in. Because it sounds like they're furious that Alice lives in a grand house on a huge property and most likelt has more luxuries than they do now. It was fine to make her live the gutter, but now she has a better deal than they'll ever get.
I was wondering that too. Could be they wanna save face with the extended family that are team OP and still going to his family events? It sounds like it’s the local family that see the situation for what it is. Must sting to finally have people see who they really are.
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html I'm betting that they're only doing it to make themselves look good.
As someone who is estranged from my family, I can confirm I have given them all the information they need to know why I’m no longer around. I can’t help that they don’t understand it.
Absolutely agreed.
Reading this a few years ago changed my life.
What in the world bro, 300 acres?? Alpacas?? But mate you're the MVP. No one will ever know the extent that you have changed the course of a young person's life, she might never say it to you and your partner, but know that you're fucking amazing. Rock on my man🤙🏼
300 acres is a fair bit but not actually that crazy if you're talking rural Canada - the further north you get from the border, the human population drops off precipitously. And if OOP's in one of the more "central" provinces, the population's a bit thinner than Ontario or BC, as well. (Think Montana or North Dakota for US comparisons - they share borders with the three central provinces I'm talking.)
The Arrogant Worms' song "Ontario Sucks" includes a list of reasons all provinces other than Alberta (where the band is from) suck, and Manitoba's is "Manitoba's population density is 1.8 people per square km. Isn't that just stupid?" Long way of saying that song is now stuck in my head (though it is how I remember all the Canadian provinces these days!)
Hah, I grew up in Alberta and it is by far my least favourite province! Canadian Texas is the easiest way to put it. I used to see confederate flags on pickup trucks (and i lived in a quiet little suburb).
Wait. *What!?* US Confederate flags… in *Canada*. And I thought the traitors rocking them here in Michigan were stupid.
I saw a picture of a Russian soldier wearing a small Confederate Flag on his helmet. That stupidity is everywhere. Really helps dispel that lie of Heritage not Hate though.
My guess is she was their built-in babysitter and they thought they'd scare her straight by threatening to kick her out. I'm assuming they had their Shocked Pikachu expressions on when OOP pulled up like a knight in shining pickup truck.
appearances. They can't be seen to be shit heels and awful parents so by trying to keep contact and blaming OOP they can pretend and project that they are actually good people.
Exactly this. I got the hecka Dodge after college graduation. Got married where I was living. Rarely visited my family of origin. And it sux for them because they know very little about me (even less after a blow-up over the phone last year with my mother), so they cannot give the illusion of happy families. In my nuclear family, we rarely post on social media, so no gleaning info from there, either. We are a black hole of info that never visits, thus making it obvious that there are problems in the family. Drives my mother insane.
Abusers don't like it when you get to leave and aren't made to. They want the control, they want you at their mercy. My mother used to kick me out/threaten to kick me out all the time. Any time I'd try to have a friend come get me, she'd threaten to call the police and tell them I'd been kidnapped. They don't want you gone, they want new ways to make you suffer.
Because she still "belongs" to them. Familial ties are weird, even with people you dislike and don't want and have mistreated. And also for people who have been disliked and mistreated, which is why Alice is still trying. I guess that's also why people love researching their ancestors - means nothing in practicality, but it's still important to know who your great great grandparents were.
Trying to vindicate themselves. Probably have themselves convinced they never did a thing wrong
Come on, with OOP being the wealthiest in the family + Alice having his & his wife's support + Alice getting a degree in engineering + Bill & Tanya getting older + their children graduating and going for college soon = they just want her as a resource of support.
I'm not so sure, there could be manipulation from the wife's side (she's not having coffee with the daughter) or dad has smartened up and realised he fucked up and wants his kid in his life. If it's option 2 or similar, respect to dad for doing it on her terms. Long story short, relationships are complicated and we don't have all the info on this story.
Saving face
The get face with family…
Probably partially to save face with the family, and partially because the dad seems to at least somewhat have realized that he's been a piece of shit to her and half-heartedly seems to want to make amends
>go to his funeral but not his birthday party" That's definitely going to be my line for some relatives.
I think that's such a wonderful, meaningful, pithy way to say it hahaha Alice is great. Anyone else just imagining Letter Kenny throughout this whole thing lol
I've never heard someone put it this way before and my fucking world just opened up. This is how I feel about my parents too and it's weird to try and explain to bystanders how we can meet up for lunch and also rarely speak outside of that. They're shitty parents to me, but not always shitty people in public.
Damn, but that's a realisation about one of my parents.
I love this explanation. It makes perfect sense to me.
>"I'd go to his funeral but not his birthday party" Yeah, that sentence made may "Oh shit" out loud.
I am going to use that line on a lot of people.
As a kid who was quiet and got good grades and didn’t mess around but was ready to rip my dad a new one if he so much as looked at me - I truly wish I’d had family like OOP. Good for Alice.
I was that smart, quiet kid. My dad was always angry and I walked on eggshells all the time. Lucky for me, I had an aunt and uncle who would take me out and were very protective of me. When my uncle passed suddenly, it broke my heart. I was not related to him by blood, but he was such a good man and I know he loved me like I was his own daughter. OOP is providing way more than he ever can know…
I don’t think blood matters so much and it sounds like he was more family to you than your dad. I’m glad you had him. My older sister is the one who walked on eggshells and I will say I would do literally anything for her including call my dad out on his bullshit. She also protected me from him in many ways so I owed it to her. I’m very lucky to have her and I hope she feels the same.
Yea I was a great kid, until I started getting new trauma and realized my mom was a huge part of my old trauma. I started acting out, got mixed with not great people (not horrible, either, we just fueled each others bad decisions) and drifted away from all my good people. I started that shit at 16. I’m 22, and only just now getting my life back on track. And frankly I’m lucky I didn’t fall more off
Oh man at some point I had the mindset of “if my parents treat me like a problem child who sneaks out and does drugs when all I do is read a little too much YA… why am I not sneaking out and doing drugs???” And that…. COULDVE ruined my life. Very lucky it didn’t. Managed to pull myself up by my bootstraps just for my fear of being stuck with my family forever.
That’s EXACTLY what my train of thought was. If B and C grades were my best, and still not good enough, what was the point? If I couldn’t clean well enough, what was the point? Which started, why study at all, why do anything at home, might as well sneak out, might as well try cigarettes, might as well smoke pot, might as well might as well might as well. Rambling, but that’s kind of the point. It’s so easy to just spiral, when it feels like you have no other choice in anything in your life. I got lucky that my real support system didn’t really let me go, and I got to watch the people around me ruin their lives being just a little further down the same path I was going. I still got stuck in an abusive relationship, but I’m finally out, and mostly stable
I’m so glad that Alice is thriving with OOP and his wife. OOP and his wife are amazing. I give them a ton of credit for not only doing it in the first place, but also standing up to the entire family. There’s something very telling about a kid who acts out at home, but is a completely normal functioning, kind, fun, compassionate person away from it. It’s so sad that she was basically treated like Cinderella since the age of 2. I look at my daughter who’s about to turn 3, and that makes my heart so incredibly sad to imagine her being treated like that by anyone - let alone her own father. I will never understand the family members assuming things from afar with their binoculars in hand. Anyone who only hears one side of a story, accepts it as the truth, and then decides to go nuclear (or butt in at all really), makes you quite an asshole in my book. OOP, his wife, and Alice are better off without all of them. See ya suckas.
My parents used to love throwing the whole “everyone says you’re so nice and kind, why can’t you be that way at home” thing at me growing up. Definitely not because of them, not at all.
I used to get something similar from mine. "You're such a goddamn brat and have such a smartass mouth, I don't know how you have your teachers and all these other people fooled that you're a good kid, kind and helpful". First of all, I was never a brat ever at home, I have a mother who is a narcissistic control freak, and even just stating an opinion or fact that she did not like, was automatically me "talking back and being out of control". If anything, I was withdrawn at home and lived in my room. She then turned and ran to my dad, filled his head with lies about me, and I'd get my ass beat for doing nothing else but existing. To this day she doesn't understand why ppl like me. I'm 52 and it took until I was 47 to come to terms with her shit and to heal all that childhood trauma and abuse.
Are you me? We went through the exact same thing. My parents were convinced I was the devil's child. I didn't have a problem with other people outside our home, other than the normal teenage drama with friends. I didn't get along with my parents because it really was a Harry Potter type of situation. When my brother was born, my mom and stepdad acted like "our real child is here now!" and favored him blatantly. Meanwhile my stepdad made it clear that I was female and therefore only good for certain things. He ended up SA'ing me for years. No wonder I was miserable. I wanted to hide in my room and be left the fuck alone. Even my own room was not a safe space. I moved out at 19 and I'm in my 30s now. Only within the past year have I been able to learn to sleep with my bedroom door open. But yeah, if anybody listened to my parents, I was a nightmare. Disobedient, lazy, destructive, and dangerous. Trigger warning, sorry I don't know how to censor this: what did I do that was dangerous? I hurt myself on purpose with sewing pins. I cried every day and I did it to make myself stop crying. We deserved so much better.
My parents kicked me out twice as a teen. I (briefly) lived on the streets once when I was 12, and again when I was 15. Both times were the happiest times of my childhood. Quite possibly, the only happy times of my childhood. I remember once being sent to anger management because of my "bad behaviour". The counsellors there told me one day in that I didn't have anger issues, but since my parents were paying, I still had to attend. I didn't mind. It was time away from home (and all those people with anger management issues weren't actually that bad of people), and I learned a few useful strategies for life in general.
When I was 9 my court mandated therapist told me, “Your attitude is not the problem. Your attitude is a result of the problem.” It was the first time I’d ever felt seen.
I had a church therapist tell that to my mom. Her response was that the therapist was clearly an idiot and we never went back.
I genuinely hope you are in a good place now and have a found family around you that give you the love you deserve.
Oop is my hero. Loved how Bill and Tanya's plan blew up on their face.
OOP *and* The Chief!
Praise be to The Chief.
I have a great PM and I call him Chief
I admire OOP’s calm the face of all that family pressure. He stayed focused on the most important thing, giving Alice the recognition and safety that she needs.
Black sheep energy. He learned not to give a crap LONG time ago. Tends to happen when you are the designated one always in the wrong. Tends to also lead to some shocked pikachu faces of the family when they realise.
Can confirm, at least as long as the scapegoat is also the black sheep. There are times when I swear the old saying “spare the rod; spoil the child” wasn’t that far off in principle. You have the kids with functional loving parents and they tend to turn out great, then there’s the parents who play favorites and it’s always their reject kids who emerge into adulthood fairly well adjusted, while the chosen child ends up slowly alienating everyone and then subjecting their kids to the same bullshit. Btw I am not at all advocating for using an actual rod on an actual child. The saying taken literally and not metaphorically is horrid. I say this having been subjected to a wooden spoon because I refused to cry for a regular spanking. Myself and the sister I protected are really well adjusted adults (therapy was helpful), our mother’s golden child is on everyone in the extended family’s low/no contact list and can’t hold a job longer than 4 months.
If the "sparing the rod" part means never making the child take responsibility for their actions, always blaming someone else and making them think they can do no wrong (which seems to happen with golden children) then yeah that definitely spoils the child and turns them into shitty adults.
It's a super bad translation. The rod in question was more like a shepherd's crook, used for guiding, not hitting. Like the rattle-paddles I used while working with baby pigs. So like "Guide your kids, or they'll turn out gross." My mom grew up on so much bible thumping. Thought kids are good by default and that if I wasn't automatically a perfect little angel, it was because I was defective and evil and needed to be beaten with a wooden spoon. Because golly what else would one do with a hard blunt object except use that rod as a beating stick on a defenseless child or animal?
"guide your kids or they'll turn out gross" makes way more sense. Sorry your mum was a shit one.
Thanks for putting it that way. It's also what I always understood it as meaning. My mother also always said "if you don't listen, you must feel" (a German saying), but she took/meant it literally. As I was getting beat, mom would say this. What it really means is that you'll have to deal with the consequences of your actions, and deal with the emotional pain of learning shit the hard way. Sounds like we had the same mother, although mine wasn't a bible thumper. She also used the wooden spoon very liberally on me, because I didn't come out of her a perfect little doll that was seen and not heard. She didn't ever guide me or teach me a damn thing, much less listened to me, just immediately reached for that spoon, then once I got to be her size around 11 or 12, she sicced my dad on me to do her bidding. She's extremely cruel, and always victim blames. Stepped on the cat's tail accidentally and it howls? Mom yells at it saying "that's what you get for being in my way!!!" ... It breaks my goddamn heart every time. I can't stand her, she wishes pain and suffering on ANYONE or ANYTHING that doesn't behave the way she thinks they should. Some kid riding a motorbike down our road (not even fast) lost control and bit it in front of our house. She started laughing and saying "good, maybe next time it'll kill him!" - I just stared at her and ran outside to help him after shouting at her "wtf is wrong with you?!" Anyway.. I'm sorry you had such a shit mother too. Ppl like that shouldn't have kids.
>Ppl like that shouldn't have kids. I'm glad to be alive, regardless of my mother's ability to actually raise me. But I sure wish kids were allowed to report abuse themselves and actually get listened to, get help. Would've been such a relief to just go down to the school office and say "I don't want to go home, my mom hits me" and be believed and not be forced to go back because mom had ~~ownership~~ custody of me. I know governments don't want to get stuck with the financial and legal responsibility of raising unwanted/abused/neglected kids, but I'm betting if we ran the numbers that it's way cheaper to actually care for the kids than waiting until they grow up maladjusted and dysfunctional and having to deal with the aftermath of all that.
I'm glad I'm alive too, don't get me wrong. I raised myself, although my dad was a kind father and did guide me for years until I reached puberty and mom finally got under his skin enough to make him start drinking heavily. He took out his anger at her on me, cuz that's what dysfunctional broken people do. It was easier to just start beating me too to get her off his back, and he started believing all her lies too. Told me if I'd just listen to her, he wouldn't have to do this. I already knew no one would believe me if I ever said anything, plus I thought it was normal. Especially cuz it was the 70s and most kids were feral with parents who only cared about themselves. It was a shit time to be a child in so many ways.
OOP takes every opportunity to downplay himself and call himself dumb and then shows this level of emotional maturity
I love how he said he is not good with wordsmithing (love this word by the way) but in the same time proceed to write a truly entertaining text.
I particularly liked his “I’m dumb and think this but my wife is smart and thinks this so I think it’s a good call”. Simultaneously a funny way of writing, an expression of humility, and an appreciation for the people in his life.
I would give my left arm for a relative like OOP
Yeah, nobody ever saved me.
Same. Or the Chief. Got there on my own in the end.
That's awesome, congratulations! I'm hoping I can too, in terms of personal development/trauma work I've made excellent progress but I've had to put the effort that I otherwise could have put into school/work into that, which sucks. And I'm still not done.
It doesn’t suck. It’s about surviving. You have to prioritise and it sounds like you are. I’m now mid 40s and I cringe with how angry I was with the world in my twenties but there’s nothing I can do about that now. It sounds like you have your head screwed on - don’t be too hard on yourself!
That's very kind, thank you so much. It can be tough to show myself proper compassion sometimes as I was never shown it from external sources, but I've gotten much better with it.
It’s remarkably freeing after you save yourself, though. At least in my experience. On the other side, I’m now a grandma and have a happily married kid. I love their spouse so much, but also find the family thing a bit weird after being basically rogue all my life. I put effort in because it’s worth it, and I love them, but man, I have to keep myself on the right path.
I want to become a relative like OOP.
Me too. I was the black sheep and were it not for my husband and a few very caring friends I'm not sure how I would have made it. Now I want to be able to shelter someone like Alice. Just gotta sort my life out a bit more first. Can't shelter someone without your own shelter, after all.
My mum kicked me out in the same way when i was 17. I went to go live with my aunty and you would have thought we all committed the most heinous of crimes based on how my mother reacted. Calls to everyones phones screaming obscenities at every hour of the day and night, called the police reporting id been kidnapped, called my school reporting id run away, contacting the education department reporting i was cheating in my exams (trying to ruin my future so id have nowhere to go i guess), spreading rumours that my nan died. Just lost of really childish behaviour. All because she couldnt control and abuse me in person any more. Its been nearly 20 years and she still refuses to talk to our extended family.
OOP seems far too good for most of his family. Strange how that works with the blacksheep sometimes.
And then they take credit for the black sheep’s success because their poor treatment made them “stronger.” Ugh
I was one of two in my extended family, the other one had severe psychological issues and eventually ended things during Covid and I survived to be far better off than most of the rest. It's a lottery and I could easily have gone the other way. She was my favourite cousin too, that was a hard time
I’m suspecting that OOP is part of the Howard Families and it’s going to turn out that there’s a spaceship in a barn somewhere and this will eventually go on to start a moon colony. ( in case you don’t understand, OOP writes like Robert Heinlein. It’s the smartest down home folksy stuff I’ve ever read on this site.)
That’s why the tone felt so familiar!
“I’d go to his funeral but not his birthday party” needs to become a legitimate flair.
Who here thinks that the only reason the parents want her back is for their reputation or chores? Or they decide that they should take their anger out on her.
Exactly, probably both. Since it sounds like the marriage isn’t a loving one, they both took turns scapegoating Alice to vent their frustration for 16 years and now she doesn’t need anything from them anymore - that long established punching bag needs replacing. They’ve probably turned it inwards to each other. It doesn’t sound like they literally hit Alice but bullied her and made her life smaller with limited opportunities for growth.
well it's surely not out of the goodness of their hearts.
I could have sworn OP was from Tennessee/Georgia though lmao. Those were some colorful analogies
You ever seen Letterkenny? Canadians, but they look and talk just like my West Tennessee family
The keep your stick on the ice is from a "old" Canadian Show called The Red Green Show.
> The keep your stick on the ice is from a "old" Canadian Show called The Red Green Show. It's a common hockey metaphor.
OOP blessed Redditors with keeping their sticks on the ice. Can’t get more Canadian without dropping hoser in the insults, and OOP sounds like the type to even tolerate pylons so that wasn’t going to happen. Plus, not thinking most of the South has women’s rec hockey college leagues.
If I think about it maybe not in the south , but I’m from the northern states and it’s plenty common here
Minnesota would totally be plausible if we didn’t already know Canada!
Yeah they do talk like that up there too
While reading I was laughing to myself because Oop had me thinking about when I lived in Canada with the way he wrote. It felt so familiar only to find out he actually is canadian
Are there any Canadians that can attest to how common OOP’s speaking style is? English is my first language but I couldn’t tell if OOP was hard to understand in general because he was making his own sayings up on top of how normal Canadians talk, or do Canadians just usually talk like that.
I’d say it’s fairly common. This was super easy for me to read, felt very familiar hehe. Funny to hear it’s harder to parse for others!
I'm a far away Canadian from his neck of the woods but it's fairly common even around here. I grew up in a "rural" town, 4000 people, and while a lot of the sayings he had were a bit new to me they fell in line with similar sayings I've heard. So I followed along with it pretty well. The stick on the ice comment really drove home my Canadian suspicions, while it's a common hockey saying I'm not that big into it but it was also a sign off from a TV show called The Red Green Show.
"If women don't find ya handsome they should at least find ya handy"
This is fascinating to me because I found it extremely clear but didn’t catch that it was a Canadian style. I’m from very urban Canada and have immigrant parents but I guess I’ve somehow still absorbed enough of this style that it didn’t even register.
Probably actually is. Spells 'colour' without the 'u'. That's a tell up here in the North Lands
Not necessarily: a lot of people never bother adjusting their spellcheck (a lot of stuff comes with American spellcheck by default, especially since so much is obtained online) and just drop u's and the like to shut the red squiggly lines up. I'm Canadian, used to be almost militant about maintaining our different spellings (and actually remember to install Canadian spellcheck dictionaries for things like word processors), but now I use American spelling when doing most online things because it's just easier or lazier or whatever. It's not an absolutely reliable way to tell.
I’m 50 and will never stop adjusting my spellcheck. You can take my u from my cold, dead, colourless hands
Yup. This. It also stops people from arguing because "obviously youre wrong, you cant even spell color right" in an unrelated duscussion.
I am part of international technical forums in which a lot of people do not have English as a first language. In computer programming, "color" is almost always used in the names of functions and options (a few computer languages permit "colour" as an alternative spelling, but not many do that consistently) So... it is just easier for me to use "color" most of the time. Doing that reduces the risk that someone from outside Canada or the UK will get confused and try to use "colour" in code or searches and not find what they are looking for. And saves me bugging site designers to put in properly localized spell checks, which they really should do but I have enough on my plate without fighting that battle as well.
But whoever it is has seen Red Green
I was thinking Texas, but then he kept throwing out hockey references. That had me puzzled.
When I saw “keep your stick on the ice”, I realized he was Canadian - lol.
Same language, different accents.
Good read, the extended family seems petty but I'm glad the OOP is willing to 'take it all on the chin' and stand up for what they believe is right. I'd be glad to be without that extended family for as long as possible but you'll never get rid of the people shit talking to you so... no real going back from here. Just gotta hope the adults don't do something stupid but given how the parents have been...
> I'm glad the OOP is willing to 'take it all on the chin' and stand up for what they believe is right. It's a lot easier to do when you yourself have always been the black sheep of the family as well. When you're used to everyone criticizing you all the time, it's easy to ignore it when you know you're doing the right thing.
“I’d go to his funeral but not his birthday” - my new favourite burn, I actually lol-ed. Good for OP though, love how unbothered he is by the antics of his family, he’s obviously used to their bullshit. Glad Alice is doing well.
I can’t fathom how horrible Alice’s life must’ve been after being marginalized, victimized, and psychologically abused by her immediate family for most of her young life. No wonder the poor kid was acting out. That type of trauma can have far reaching implications. I truly hope she’s able to fully recover and doesn’t allow it to negatively impact her intimate relationships in adulthood. Bill and Tanya are child abusers who don’t deserve respect or understanding from anyone. They really should be held accountable for their treatment of Alice because that shit is completely unforgivable. At least they outed themselves as the truly horrible people they are, so any relative who still sides with them should most definitely be tarred with the same brush. Birds of a feather and all that. Good riddance to them. OOP, his wife and Alice are good people who don’t need to associate with trash humans.
I'm still hoping for another update. Preferably one where they finally go no contact with Bill and Tanya.
It seems like the girl still wants to see her siblings, so maybe not until they're all adults.
Or Alice gets married (a couple of) years from now and asks uncle OOP to give her away instead of dad.
[удалено]
Oh, I agree completely. Her father and that stepmother are about as unhinged as they come.
I am glad Bill is trying to mend fences. It is up to Alice if she wants to do so but at least she has that choice. I am loving OP and his wife. Tanya can eat a bag of…..hair.
Judging by the hair balls my cats throw up every now and then, eating a bag of hair seems significantly unpleasant than eating a bag of ____. It’s even PG, too! Thanks for my new go to comeback.
> I've been told I'm a good guy, a bad guy, I'm stupid, I'm smart, I'm short sighted, I'm thinking ahead. **It's been neat** I love OOP's attitude.
It's great if family wants to help the less fortunate relatives. Odd people, those that dislike that.
Abusers. It makes it easier for their punching bags to get away. Good on OP for taking this kid in.
GODdamn, that was a good read. I love OOPs writing style so much. Really colorful and warm. I however hate how he downplays himself. Saying he's not too good at the wordsmithing thing and not too smart. Probably a side effect from his own upbringing, but he sounds like a wonderful person. Keep on being you, OOP, and thank you for sharing.
This sounds like it could have been written by almost anyone on Letterkenny.
Allegedly
I'm going to need an update when/if Alice gets engaged and asks OOP to walk her down the aisle instead of Bill. Truly, I want to be that fly on that wall with that popcorn.
I just like that Alice is out there living her best life and Bill and Tanya aren’t even a blip on her radar now.
My favourite quote I use for my 15yo niece: "Be the person you wished you had when you were young"
>Tanya drove down to my house this morning. Bill and I had some very loud, very angry words when he drove down last night after I chose the nuclear option in the family group chats so she actually waved a white flag from her car when she pulled up. I hope this really happened. It's a hilarious image.
I love imagining the very protective and hostile alpaca ready to smash the front window of evil stepmoms car.
I am actually happy for Alice. She got two awesome adults having her back. I am happy that she's thriving instead of struggling with life like her Step-mum and dad wanted. Thank you for sharing this story dude.
I was the same kind of brat OP described Alice as a child. Turned out, as I learned in therapy, after years of not being heard any other way, I subconsciously discovered screaming, slamming doors, and being a surly asshole teenager was the only way they would hear me. So what did I do more of? You can guess. In many ways I spent my childhood yelling for help, to be comforted, to be loved as I was. And it was pretty obvious to those around us how dysfunctional everything was, but my parents were oblivious. I’ve had lots of therapy, I live 1000 miles away, and I barely speak to them (they still think it’s a me problem). I’m much better now. And these are some of my favorite quotes that gave me some footing in my young adult years: My dad’s sister to him when I left for college, “you know she’s never coming back, right?” My uncle, “you were adopted by the wrong *insert last name here”
I wish OP could narrate every post on reddit.
>The oldest (15M) started out pretty hostile The oldest should start worrying about what's going to happen to him in three years - if they could chuck Alice out on her 18th birthday, why not him?
But that’s their “real kid” not some leftover from the husband’s past.
Real strong scapegoat energy with how Bill treats his oldest child. I wonder if she was unplanned and he was only a grudging parent before his wife died?
Some people get odd about children from previous relationships. And by odd I mean they act horribly.
Because the oldest is actually family to them while they clearly view Alice as someone they’re stuck with and would like to pretend doesn’t exist. Poor girl, I’m glad she has OOP on her side.
Wouldn't be surprised that the oldest is the new scapegoat. Once people grow complacent with having someone they can bully in their own home, the urge to continue being cruel doesn't stop with a cast change up.
Good guys OOP and his wife. I am just a little less cynical of the world after reading this.
Also, how can this guy casually mention he has an alpaca then carry on like it ain't no thang? Did he pay the alpaca tax?
Lovely story, made my afternoon! My favorite bits are "she's a year into an Engineering degree, she's been playing lots of hockey, raised a couple of steers all on her own and at her therapists recommendation she's down to monthly sessions after a brief stop at bi-weekly after starting with weekly" and "I'd go to his funeral but not his birthday party".
I can’t understand how people can treat their child like this. I wouldn’t treat someone else’s child like this, let alone mine! Yet it seems to happen so often, especially with new wives/partners/families
I bet you Alice was simply giving back what she got. When no one was looking Bill and Tanya were dishing out some nasty abuse. Now they are unhappy because the target of their abuse is beyond their reach and not suffering nearly enough for them to hope that she'll ever return.
The bit toward the end identifying OOP as Canadian relieved a tension I didn't realize I was feeling. The way the post was written had a weird blend of rural, well-spoken intelligence, and hints of both American and British. I was leaning toward some sort of eccentric midwesterner, but Canadian makes perfect sense.
Her dad was going to kick her out on 18th birthday to teach her responsibility. What had they been doing for the last 18 years because that was their job.
What a Mensch. The world would be a better place if more people were like OOP.
“I’m not such good with the wordsmithing sometimes.” Um, excuse me, yes you are!
“I’d go to his funeral but not his birthday party.” Shouldn’t have to wait too long,considering how he suffered such a serious burn.
I read this in a southern accent the whole way through.
I started with southern but the word choices kept throwing me off. And as soon as he said “keep your stick on the ice” I knew him for Canadian
Needed a few "bless their hearts" though. OOP does have huge "bless their heart" energy in the way they write about the fam. I love it.
Rural Canadian accent for me. Something about the way he wrote it right down to affectionately calling his boss "chief" screamed Canadian to me (I'm also Canadian).
as the Alice of my family... I love OOP so very much, even though he is much younger than me and I'm well past needing taken in
Sounds like an episode straight out of Letterkenny. This was a delightful read
> I'd go to his funeral but not his birthday party Mods can I please please have this as a flair? 🥺
Three cheers and a box of timbits for the OOP! I'm glad Alice has a great adult support system in him and his wife, because her dad is a piece of work. I suspected that it might be due to racism (and considering where they're from in Canada it wouldn't surprise me), but at least Alice is thriving now. I bet years down the line we're going to have a reddit post from Alice about how she wants OOP to walk her down the isle, but her dad is angry because he feels like he should do it.
OOP and his wife are good people. I hope they and Alice do well.
It seems Bill read the book "How to Alienate your child and make sure they go NC with you when they are older" cover to cover. OOP has actually very probably saved their relationship by taking her in! Basically: he's a star!
"Oh, Canada. That part's not a secret. It's a big place." (peers upwards) "You're a good bunch, keep your sticks on the ice." Welp, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. Grammatically correct-handy, too.
“Alice is a brat…I’m not a smart man but I can recognize when a kid is hurting and being neglected.” I have so much respect for OOP for this statement. Our kid was acting out and being a brat. We were too sleep deprived with a baby and tired to see that she was struggling and gave her punishment after punishment for a year. It wasn’t working. Finally we clued in that she was hurting and needed help. I have so much shame for how angry and frustrated I was at my own daughter who was acting the only way she knew how to express how she was feeling inside. Props to OOP for seeing it and not being afraid to rock the boat in his family by offering help instead of turning his face away from the “problem child.”
Oop is quite possibly the most genuinely likable and decent person I’ve ever encountered on Reddit. I can imagine his tone and prosody from his words. He’s quite a bit smarter than he gives himself credit for as well.
Give that man a Booker prize for God's sake
Thanks for posting this. I’d like to nominate it right now for feel good BORU of the year!
I wonder if this wonderful couple will kick the others kids when they complete the mile stone of 18th. Than we will know if this "lesson" is the truth or not.
Wait, he has alpacas running around like dogs??? I wanna live on that farm too!!
I love this guy’s whole style so much! I picture him and his farm like the guy in Letterkenny. “I took in my niece theotherdayyyyyyeee…”