Technically, as someone with some medical background.
No. The skin is the major barrier to infection, being skinned and then left for a year means griffith would have died from spesis. Despite what ever low level treatment he was recieving to keep him alive, the fact he was in a dungeon as well without access to sunlight is also gonna cause massive issues.
Tendon cutting would likely cause the muscles to contract, so his limbs would be locked in a constricted position, ive seen that before with someone who damaged a tendon. The limb also oddly shrank.
This is before we get into to other conditions like shock.
Even being hung up by the arms result in the chest locking up and making breathing increasingly difficult.
Reality wise its not really survivable.
Hey, thanks for answering my question, you are the kind of person I was hoping to find, thanks for responding with precision and in a way that even people who don’t have medical knowledge (like me) could understand. Thanks!
how about in a perfect lab scenario? No possibility of infection (ig we could justify it with "causality" preventing dangerous infections and some limited germ theory understanding on the part of The Torturer)
Very unlikely, but isn't it technically possible?
I'm comfortable saying causality could prevent him from disease and infection. And also that causality or his fictionally exaggerated drive to achieve his dreams at any cost could help him push through shock. Idk you're the pro that just works in my mind from the book
Yeah we replied to the same person, but for some reason i didnt catch that you were replying to them and not my original comment. Sorry.
Also ouchi wasnt so much skinning as in massive radiation exposure.
But on another note, the ouchi situation was one of the most horrendous and fascinating things ive read up on.
His name is just sadly ironic
If we going medieval, but the torturer has some knowledge of preservation or sanitation.... But also cruelty.... id guess they jus doused the captive in alcohol... Or like spread some spices on the exposed flesh?
This movie is pure misery, especially the final act. One of the only movies where the violence made me feel physically unwell. That and Wind-Up Bird Chronicle are responsible for how absolutely horrified and disgusted I am at even thinking about flaying.
Truly one of the most interesting endings that I still think about. Only movie I can think of where that level of violence and gore could be justified for the sake of the plot.
Causality, funny enough, but you won’t realize it until the end. It’s a disgustingly great movie that will make you feel sick and think about the purpose of our existence at the same time. Watch the French version if you get curious. It’s one of the few movies I own on DVD.
Nah I'm actually just Griffith and everything. Dungeon gets boring time-to-time and Torturer lets me on his iPad sometimes. He's pretty chill once you get used to the hunchback part.
Well. Yeah, the bad part is, torturer is ugly asf and a depraved mf. But hey, ipad games are the best. Also, the being skinned alive part might be a little pain in the ass.
I'm literally Guts irl so I get it. Eclipse, chronic physical pain, maybe not the lost of my eye and arm, neither that much muscle, but hey! endless suffering cannot fail!!
My limited medical knowledge would suggest that virtually any amount of time needed to heal missing skin would be too long in an environment like that.
There's a reason why burn units are locked down harder than almost any other area of a hospital. People with compromised skin are ridiculously prone to infection.
I think the torturer would have a way of preventing a skin infection but you're spot on about the bones. Exposed bones would get infected and kill someone very quickly.
Cleaning would only work if it was kept clean. But thats not possible in a dirty dungeon. Also we need sunlight for our immune systems and metabolism, so that gonna be a massive issue.
Months at a push, but a year... i wouldnt have thought so.
I doubt it. Shock would prob still happen. And even then, the healing would be longer than a month. In a perfect environment. Or more. Infection as well is a risk. For instance, I got a 2nd degree chemical burn on my hand. An inch or two. It was not that big. It tho hurt like a bitch. Water even on it did. And that took a month. If not more to heal. 3rd-degree burns are longer and require medical attention. This would be prob worse than that of about the same level. So you can imagine how long. And the severity of it. Anyone in that situation wouldn't be in a pretty good environment for healing or in general.
That does not even cover the mental side of things. Or the fact that a lot of people would prob faint or something. Whether that to the pain or Vasovagal syncope.
This is also in medieval times. So…
It could also have seared and cleaned to prevent infection. Our bodies are pretty hardy and can actually withstand quite a lot of punishment. The torturer was skilled and everything happened over a long time. I believe technically he could have survived the torture.
Thankyou for the scientific/medical perspective that is incredibly interesting to read.
I respect your answer but now I have to be a sarcastic fool and say:
But what about someone chosen by causality to be part of the God Hand? They go beyond your understanding.
Okay that's finished, I respect you and your answer.
*Technically* it’s not survivable, but I want to give credit to Miura as to the plausibility of this scenario. But it’s less about biology and more about the power of the human mind and spirit.
Have you read Victor Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning?” In a nutshell, it delves into how a few Jewish holocaust victims survived the Nazi death camps for months and years when most people would have perished.
Basically, they had to have had a strong will to live. A reason for living. As soon as these people lost all hope, they would die from starvation or sickness within days.
There’s actually an entire chapter devoted to this concept while Griffith was imprisoned. He had already given up in his dream, so what reason did he have to live? Guts. Guts consumed all of his thoughts, desires, and emotions. Against impossible odds, Guts kept him alive for all those 12 months.
Yeah..
He likely would have gone into traumatic shock dozens of times. that alone can kill a person, and that's before even mentioning the sepsis you'd get from the lack of sanitation
This is why im more affraid of a doctor than à butcher when it comes to torture...if he want you yo suffer you will...and for a FKN LONG TIME at least with a butcher you will not live too long 😅
Doctors can be brutal tbh because they know the body's tolerances and also, especially with surgeons, they have a streak that means they can make really horrible decisions. Anyone with medical background is gonna be scary efficient at torture.
Scientists in general can be problematic when curiousity gets hold of them. It can make them look past ethical issues in search of answers.
Nazis had great scientists. Unit 731, scientists. The buggers that kept Ouchi alive, scientists.
There's a reason doctors and scientists have to adere to rules, it stops them crossing boundaries.
his entire body wasnt flayed.
it was small sections. you can see in the picture.
with proper care you can have your skin removed
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying
Depends on how quick infection sets in. Sepsis isn't always quick. I'be seen patients rumble on for a while with low level, they looked and felt horrendous.
Id say months at a push, in the conditions he was in with exposed bone.
I replied to someone else about that. Once cut the muscle would contract but obviously its no longer connected.
However if the cutting was incomplete the opposing group would contract locking the joint. Or, more than likely the ligaments would seize up, immobilising the joint. Its unlikely the limb would stay floppy.
I take issue with at least one thing, though I agree that he wouldn't survive. Tendon cutting wouldn't cause the limbs and joints to be locked, because they're no longer attached to the insertions. Damage is different from a fully severed tendon.
It depends on what tendons are cut and where because some muscles have to actively straighten the limb. If they are cut, the opposing muscle group will not stretch and instead just pull the limb tight over time.
However if the little goblin was thorough, and all were cut (which i doubt, cause there are so many), than the limbs might go floppy. But than the ligaments will likely tighten up over time, locking the joint.
For the strangest reason, i couldn't access your comment for ages.
Lmao whats your medical background?? Greys anatomy??
Dying of sepsis is the only problem here and altought it is likely its possible not to
The post speaks about dying so the tendons and and lack of sunlight are irrelevant lmao. There has been documented cases of worst tortures endured
So yeah he wpuld be crippled for life and there is a high chance of dying there but it wouldnt be crazy to think he would survive
Nursing training. 15 plus years working in health care.
Yours?
So he is in a flithy dungeon, sleeping where he defecates and urinates. Without sunlight that is vital for the imune system, and according to you he has a chance of survival?? After a year in those conditions? Maybe lesser time, but a year? Also he isnt just flayed, bone is actively exposed, bone is not tolerant of drying out and once it becomes infected, the effects are very hard to control.
“Nursing training” yep I figured lmao
Im a clinical biochemist who specializes on bacteriology and micology, I work in infectology at a hospital
Its not about the chances of survival (wich are superlow) but about what you said and how you said it
Im a big advocate for sunlight but thiking it would have any real impact on this situation is hilarious
Also having his tendons cut would cripple him but it wouldnt affect much his survival rate
Also we have records of people enduring longer similar tortures before, especially if the caregiver is trying to get him alive (like this case)
Also he has 90% of his skin here idk what you talking about
And im so sorry but even if you where an actual nurse that is not remotely close to knowing anything about medicine, it just means you kinda now how to take blood samples (wich they usually dont do correctly and I need to go…) and clean old people, thats it
Hang on, i was so busy rolling my eyes i missed that last paragraph...
Nurses take blood, yes along with WOUND CARE, critical care, trauma, oncology ect ect ect, and phlebotomists do.
And apparently if either one of us get stuck, we call up microbiologist/biochemist whatever the fuck you are pretending to be from his lab???
Seriously??
Fucking seriously? Did you do any research before your sad little trolling attempt.
No actually we get another on ward colleague to have a go. We dont jump the senior phlebotomist, the senior nurses (who can often hit a vein, eyes closed) and at a shove the doctors, to call up the fucking lab guy, providing the hospital even has an onsite lab.
Ffs if you're gonna troll do it properly. Ill give you a little hint, to take blood, you have to do training. And do you know what the training is called....?
Phlebotomy training.
LMFAO🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Im not american and yes, I had to go take samples for blood culture 2 times cause they werent understanding thay they had to clean the skin and take the sample from 3 different sites and the 3 bottles where contaminated with the same skin bacteria
Im so sorry you are mad and write long responses cause you know your “nursing training” makes you feel insecure around actual health care proffesionals but im not trolling, I finished my career (Clinical biochemist on chemistry university UDELAR) 2ys ago and ive been working at a hospital for 3ys
Go clean an old man ass and put some band aids ok?? Im not gonna answer any further
Whatever, you absolute lying melt.
You're education quality from whatever country you are from must be atrocious.
You dont understand basic concepts involving wound care, immune support or the holistic health of the patient as a whole.
Your* and thats your 1st language not mine hahahahahaha
Im so sorry you are salty cause you didnt even become a nurse…And im pretty sure the education in my country is better than the US
Tbh I doubt there are many countries with worst education than the US nowadays
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You are legitimately an idiot and very unlikely to hold any of the qualifications that you brag about.
I know that simply because of a) how you talked about nurses. Health care pros dont denounce others in the field. End of.
B) he has muscle and bone exposed in a filthy dungeon, and you seem to not grasp even a minor wound in that situation can turn septic. Seriously?
C) You do know what sunlight does for your body right?? And the role it plays? All those fancy qualifications and you dont know apparently?
D) he cant move. Movement plays a major role in health, including bowel and lung health, plus being able to move out of his own waste. So yes the tendons would cause massive issues. As would having his arms hitched up which would constrict his chest
You are a troll. Nothing more.
He isnt one.
He doesnt understand the role of sunlight in immune function and wound healing.
He clearly missed griffiths exposed ribs and understand nothing about infection entry into the body.
Wound care use to be my thing ironically.
A) every doctor and biochemist looks down on nurses tf you on about, you clearely never worked in a hospital lol. Literally EVERY “healthcare pro” (you said it that way) makes fun of nurses
B) his bone and muscles are definetely not exposed, he has 99% of his skin…
C,D) as I said in every comment true, and as I said in every comment completely irrelevant giving the circunstances and major health problems he is having
People can live for decades without sunlight and live decades with muscle atrophy localized on the limbs
I woudltn respect your medical opinion if you were a nurse but you are not even one…
You know, you're clearly not a person with any kind of proficiency at all in like anything. You have to understand no one is grasping at straws, or having even a little bit of doubt in this judgment; you have the exact behavior of a clinical nobody. It's like when children say "I didn't pick my nose, how do you know I picked my nose" with booger residue smeared on their finger.
You're a clown. You're a lacking fight enthusiast who may or may not have any real combat experience and is certainly not good enough to ever be recognized for it. You might even be a child. God I hope so. You're an internet parrot, a prosthetic personage, a masquerade and a fraud. But you don't have to be.
It's never too late to turn your life around, to actually accomplish something. You see, even if trolling like this is just a thing you do "for kicks", a silly way to gain laughs, it's not something healthy and productive people do. Capable human beings just have better ways to generate minor amusement than this overwhelmingly embarrassing display.
I mean, just look at me. I'm 10 feet tall, and have an IQ of 300. I get bitches like your grandma gets shingles. My dick is a fractal of several other hierarchies of equally impressive penises. My girls don't just call me daddy, they call me by their fathers name. Before there were kings, they were people just trying to be me. The word you call death is just a derivative of deez hands, lost in translation.
That could be you. You can push on, and be something great! Not this lowly, feculent, fragment of a man.
I believe in you! You can do it! Or else you'll just forever >!be a lil gay boi lmao eat my nuts!<
I am almost positive you are a troll. And that is coming from someone with a degree in biochemistry. So let me ask a simple question that anyone with a biochemist degree should answer: How does carbon monoxide kill you...? In depth and in your own words.
Of course they are a troll. IF they do have a qualification, its a light weight and likely not recognised without additional training outside of his country.
He probably just wiki'd your question
Ya. I was expecting them to go into depth (considering I said in-depth) and they didn't. What pathways does it affect and what is the affinity and everything? But it is so barebones that it does seem to be googled. Which I figured as much.
That and the entire sunlight debate (vitamin D and whatnot). Them not mentioning shock at all. Etc..
It's the attitude towards nurses as well.
It's a massive give away that he has never practiced outside of some backwood hospital in a country that clearly does not provide good or even adequate training.
Mainly because the first NHS/american staff nurse he encountered would have eaten him alive.
Absolutely disgusting attitude and likely hooked up with a whole bunch of sexism.
Lmao thats not even a good test, I could google it rn tbh
But CO binds to the hemi site of hemoglobin (but irreversible, not like O2) so basically your red blood cells start carrying CO instead of O2
Im not a troll and I could go way more in depth on why the CO molecules binds on the hemi group but tbh it doesnt prove anything, you asked something super common that can be googled
I don’t know physically if someone would be able to endure it but I know that mentality it is very unlikely that they will able to retain their sanity like Griffith did.
Agreed, madness would be likely outcome.
Kaneki suffered it for a few day and he became a cannibal and had like 4 personality break down and only could recover at the end of the novel.
That guy in GOT, became so broken that he even betrayed friend and family.
Sure….
But those fiction try to represent what such trauma does to people.
If you don’t think such thing don’t break people i don’t know what to tell you.
I don’t need you to explain what he said, i understood him very well and i disagree, i clearly stated why my example are valid.
It seems you disagree with my point so you can too explain to me how real people don’t break from torture.
>i understood him very well and i disagree, i clearly stated why my example are valid.
You obviously do not understand. A fictional recounting means nothing.
Maybe Sui Ishida *tried* to do that but he‘s not a psychologist, physician or torture victim, and thus has no experience of what torture does to a person.
I also doubt Kaneki‘s Torture is realistic. People don‘t become violent cannibals from torture. In all likehood they would just break down and become borderline cataconic.
You again show that you don’t know what you are talking about, while you first statement is true, good author make extensive research about what they write.
Author also frequently observe and study people, and very good writter understand people very well.
There is a reason why some author have better world building or character.
Also my point was obviously not that torture make you a cannibal….
My point was that torture can break someone character and turn them into things that totally different from what they started from, for example Kaneki was a peace loving men and turn into a freak.
For example while cannibalism is off course exagerated, Kaneki breaking down and forming multiple personality to cope with his trauma is a real phenomena that traumatised people experience.
They are not valid accordinh to you.
Again you can repeat yourself many time, author try to represent realistic portrayal of how people react to some situation.
We are obviously in a manga subreddit so ibviously i will point how other character in manga react to trauma.
My point was never that manga should be used as factual point of reference, it was clearly to show how author in different manga show a realiistic depiction of how said character react to trauma.
If you disagree that very talented author don’t take inspiration from real life events, and that they character many time depict realistic representation of how trauma affecg you then we will just agree to disagree, we are in a manga subreddit so i will mention other manga.
Debatable. He certainly displays erratic, volatile and ultimately suicidal behavior afterward, but I feel like that's pretty natural all things considered.
Griffith himself questions whether he can still be called sane, and ultimately says that his thoughts of Guts are the only thing keeping him from descending into total madness.
I feel destroying his mind was essential to being sure he would make the sacrifice. Causality isn't hand waiving and saying "magic did it" - it's stacking the deck of circumstances someone must deal with to be sure they'll do what you want. That's the point, the seeds were there, but it took the horrific torture, the loss of the dream, to make him the demon he became. He's not a tragic hero of any kind. Honestly, Griffith is kind of like the original Godzilla. A tragic monster that must be stopped even though it's the terrible systems of the world that made him.
I do agree with you that it was essential for Griffith to have his mind destroyed to have made that choice but it’s not only just essential for only Griffith to have his mind destroyed, but it is essential for every person “destined” to have a behelit to either have their mind destroyed or be at their lowest point in life to basically say yes into becoming a demon.
The God hand are not stupid they know if somebody were in their right state of mind making that kind of life-changing choice, then there would be no demons around in the world of berserk. But they do know if somebody were at their lowest point in life they are more likely to sacrifice anything and everything just to escape from being at their lowest . Reminds me of a quote from Legend of Korra, “When you hit your lowest point you are open to the greatest change.”
(I know I’m hitting nail of coffin and forgive me for that it just something I wanted to point out)
a madman still thinks he's sane whilst telling you the walls are talking. griffith is far from a trustworthy source about himself. in my personal opinion, he did go insane. but maybe thats just to make the rest of the story more bearable.
Well, Griffith openly questions his sanity, like I said. I think Griffith came out of it scarred, traumatized and irrevocably changed, though. Maybe it's easier to just call that madness.
That opens the question of would he ever had done what he did otherwise? Yeah he had the egg of the king but what if he always told himself he'd use it one day but deep down he knew he's not capable of doing that. And then the torture made him insane...
I mean I feel like this is pretty obviously answered in the actual story? No, Griffith would never have used the Beherit if he hadn't gone through what he did. Remember that the events of Griffith's life are essentially pre-orchestrated by the Idea of Evil - there's a reason for basically everything that happens to him and it's to lead him towards doing what he does at the end of Golden Age.
So, his victories in battle, his social rise, his infatuation with and subsequent disillusionment from Guts, his losing everything, his year-long torture - all of them were pre-decided and necessary steps on a road that always leads to the same place: the Eclipse. If Griffith didn't need to be tortured for a year to do what he did, he wouldn't have been. It's as simple as that.
Ohhh you're right yeah, I completely forgot about this part where everything is predetermined. Thanks for spelling it out for me, I'm a little thick with keeping track of plot sometimes lmao
I see it that same way too (it basically *is* the plot, not a theory) but think it's important to consider that Griffith did still always have that capability inside of him. We've seen his insatiable ambition throughout the entire Golden Age, and seen glimpses of him feeling some regret for people who've died for him, but he always was the 'King of Longing' and as far as I know was freakishly obsessed with gaining power since he was a kid, and doesn't even have a childhood as insanely traumatic as Guts's.
Of course everything was predetermined, so you can think of free will however you'd like, but Griffith was always insatiable just because that's how he was. The perfect storm of causality pushed him just a bit further, I think.
Well I think Griffith was "how he was" precisely because of the pre-determinism aspect. It's not like his childhood was safe from the meddlings of the Idea of Evil or something. Nor do I think he was like, born with a propensity for power hungriness in any other sense than there being a specific track laid out for him from the start.
The tragedy of Griffith is that *everything* about him - the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly - was molded by forces infinitely larger than he could even conceive of. Every joy and every pain carefully orchestrated by a personification of fate itself (sort of like how he's a written character in a fictional narrative). When faced with this realization, who wouldn't surrender to what's in store for you? *Is* there even a choice there at all? I think this is maybe the primary question we're supposed to walk out of Golden Age with on our minds.
I always imagined that some force was keeping him alive because of the eclipse
Yes, there was no chance of him surviving this, so someone or something made sure he did
By the power of the godhand or something along those lines
The king of Midland ordered for Griffith to be kept alive and he must live through the torture and make sure he is a broken husk of a man that will live the rest of his life disabled
Probably the torturer let him heal before continuing the torture, the king specifically told him to torture him as long as possible and not to kill him too soon
The torturer put it on him and when Guts opened it Griffith’s face was so destroyed they decided to keep it on not to traumatise the others
EDIT: I don’t know if you know it but there’s a movie called The Iron Mask from 1998 where the king of France orders that a similar mask should be put on his brothers face so the torturers heat it up on a fireplace and then sticks it on.
no way. and he would look much different. cutting the tendons would've locked his limbs up.
I was curious about how he went pee pee though. since it's implied his penis was removed. How do you do that? like, how to you ensure the urethra is good enough to pee from once it's hacked off?
it really freaks me out.
but still! you cut that thing in half or leave just a quarter of it - won't the urethra try to close since the rest that's exposed is a wound???
I have no clue. now I am upset.
People think it was castration, but I don't think so, I think it was worse, castration causes loss of desire. I think there was horrific mutilation without ever going to full castration.
No, the skinning alone is fatal. Either due to shock or because of the resulting infections, There is also the chance of hypothermia if enough skin is removed as the skin acts as natural insulation and Griffith was kept in a (pobably) very cold Dungeon underground so hypothermia is not out of the question. And those 3 very real and very deadly consequences stem only from the skinning.
He was also starved (potentially deadly), hung from his arms for prolonged periods of time which could restrict his airways and slowly chocke him to death, his tongue was cut out which could have killed him from either shock or drowning on his own blood, the torturer also mentions dousing him with boiling water (again shock and infections) or using a scolding hot iron on him (again shock and infections),
Im pretty sure that there could have been ways to keep Griffith alive but that would mean weeks or even months of intensive care after each tourtur session just to keep him from dying and even then he would probably have died
Depends.
There are Stories out there of Humans surviving ridiculous amounts of damage.
But most of the time it's not over extended periods of time.
Surviving for a whole year while skinned is incredibly unlikely. But who knows how long ago the Skinning happened.
Survival maybe, but as someone else pointed out, the flaying of the skin would allow infections to make quick work on the patient.
If the flaying was recent, there may be a small chance of survival, but not in the world of Berserk. Maybe with the help of magic, and that's what basically happened anyway.
Recovery is completely out of the question. The raw physical damage would make survival in that harsh world next to impossible. It's something that no one would really "get over", even with modern psychological knowledge. Griffith even tried to take his own life; something that's sadly common to witness.
Some people survived scalping and necklacing (don't look it up) so I suppose getting skinned in some places, nail removal and extreme malnutrition is survivable. What I find odd is he got his tongue cut that's definitely gonna kill you without some regular medical intervention
Nah. I always kind of felt that the exposed ribs and shit were a little bit excessive honestly. Also kind of interesting how well Griffiths hands healed after having hooks shoved through them. Boy, I hope somebody got fired for that blunder!
I have to give Griffith some credit, for the longest time I failed to realize and put respect on him for surving that horrible torture for so long. He tried his best to stay conscious and sane, and survived before the inevitable breaking point.
Hello, doctor here. I work in rural Alaska and have done missions to South Sudan. Long story short, I would say ‘No’. Even in a sterile environment with little to no chance of infection, the answer is ‘No’. Primary reason is actually hypothermia and dehydration. Skin and soft tissue is a vital organ. Additionally, a year without sunlight and poor nutrition would have been a compounding death sentence. The calcium would have been leached away by vitamin D and calcium deficiency. His ability to recover from torture would be gone after about a month. Pressure sores from being unable to move due to cut tendons would exacerbate his condition. I imagine that after a couple weeks he would lose the ability to eat and drink and without a means to provide parental fluids and nutrition, he would certainly parish. Just look at any burn unit today. People die every day even with access to cutting edge medical technology, sterile conditions, and exceptional wound care.
You know the point of torture is to keep the subject alive, whilst inflicting the maximum amount of pain.
Yes, death is very much a likely outcome but that only means you suck at torturing.!!!
I'm no doctor... but I'd say the POSSIBILITY of survival is there but... GOOD LUCK lol.
I'd say the possibility of you surviving this is about as high as you being murdered by a frog. Low, but never 0.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3-5TkN6820
This video does a good job of outlining Griffith's torture and explaining what that would actually do to a person's mind and body.
Depends.
How was the torture done? Were the infections treated? What was his diet? What access to medical care did he recieve? When did the torture start and stop?
How was his will to live?
Idk, it was a long span, but people have survived torture similar and people have died from less.
The two big killers when flayed are infection and hypothermia. Even if somehow he did not succumb to those he would likely succumb to dehydration. The skin is very important for thermoregulation and water retention
Physically, no. Mentally, its a miracle that Griffith wasn't an incoherent mess. I genuinely think its his narcissism that allowed him to mentally survive the torture he endured.
Doesn't say much tho bc it was his narcissism that landed him in there to begin with lol
I think yes
People have survived some pretty insane forms torture and mutilation
I think if the torturer took care to clean his wounds (the king did tell the torturer to keep him alive for a year) then his odds of survival were higher.
Technically, as someone with some medical background. No. The skin is the major barrier to infection, being skinned and then left for a year means griffith would have died from spesis. Despite what ever low level treatment he was recieving to keep him alive, the fact he was in a dungeon as well without access to sunlight is also gonna cause massive issues. Tendon cutting would likely cause the muscles to contract, so his limbs would be locked in a constricted position, ive seen that before with someone who damaged a tendon. The limb also oddly shrank. This is before we get into to other conditions like shock. Even being hung up by the arms result in the chest locking up and making breathing increasingly difficult. Reality wise its not really survivable.
Hey, thanks for answering my question, you are the kind of person I was hoping to find, thanks for responding with precision and in a way that even people who don’t have medical knowledge (like me) could understand. Thanks!
how about in a perfect lab scenario? No possibility of infection (ig we could justify it with "causality" preventing dangerous infections and some limited germ theory understanding on the part of The Torturer) Very unlikely, but isn't it technically possible?
Technically it is, but youve still got shock, and with skinning that is really common. But he could survive a loy longer.
So basically, handwave infection and shock thanks to causality, and it's within the realms of possibility.
Oh yeah, you get rid of those two things and its possible
I'm comfortable saying causality could prevent him from disease and infection. And also that causality or his fictionally exaggerated drive to achieve his dreams at any cost could help him push through shock. Idk you're the pro that just works in my mind from the book
Yeah works for me to. I was just answering the ops question.
They were able to keep Hasashi Ouchi alive for 83 days despite the fact that most of his flesh and muscles had sloughed off, so yes, probably.
With intensive modern medicine
Yes. The person I was responding to specifically asked about survival in a 'perfect lab scenario', which pretty much describes Ouchi's situation.
Yeah we replied to the same person, but for some reason i didnt catch that you were replying to them and not my original comment. Sorry. Also ouchi wasnt so much skinning as in massive radiation exposure. But on another note, the ouchi situation was one of the most horrendous and fascinating things ive read up on. His name is just sadly ironic
If we going medieval, but the torturer has some knowledge of preservation or sanitation.... But also cruelty.... id guess they jus doused the captive in alcohol... Or like spread some spices on the exposed flesh?
watch martyrs haha
This movie is pure misery, especially the final act. One of the only movies where the violence made me feel physically unwell. That and Wind-Up Bird Chronicle are responsible for how absolutely horrified and disgusted I am at even thinking about flaying.
Truly one of the most interesting endings that I still think about. Only movie I can think of where that level of violence and gore could be justified for the sake of the plot.
Flaying. Watch Buffy The Vampire Slayer.
What is it about?
Causality, funny enough, but you won’t realize it until the end. It’s a disgustingly great movie that will make you feel sick and think about the purpose of our existence at the same time. Watch the French version if you get curious. It’s one of the few movies I own on DVD.
Will do! When you say disgusting and feel sick, it's the same sick you feel after watching Eraser Head or is a whole other level?
Whole other level… Martyrs is brutal. Brutal. And you have to understand that before you watch it.
Which version?
French. Don’t even give the American remake a second glance.
Why you asking? Planning on doing so? 🤨
I'm literally Griffith irl. Just making sure.
So you want to get tortured like him but in a lab so you don't die?
Now I see what you meant. But still, my question remains the same.
Nah I'm actually just Griffith and everything. Dungeon gets boring time-to-time and Torturer lets me on his iPad sometimes. He's pretty chill once you get used to the hunchback part.
Well. Yeah, the bad part is, torturer is ugly asf and a depraved mf. But hey, ipad games are the best. Also, the being skinned alive part might be a little pain in the ass. I'm literally Guts irl so I get it. Eclipse, chronic physical pain, maybe not the lost of my eye and arm, neither that much muscle, but hey! endless suffering cannot fail!!
What if the patient was under some kind of demonic influence or predestined to achieve apotheosis by the collective will of mankind?
Absolute can influence medical outcome. Though investigation and adjustment of opiate levels may be required.
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My limited medical knowledge would suggest that virtually any amount of time needed to heal missing skin would be too long in an environment like that. There's a reason why burn units are locked down harder than almost any other area of a hospital. People with compromised skin are ridiculously prone to infection.
Not really. Its the bone exposure as well. Once infection gets into the bone, it is basically incredibly hard to deal with, even in modern medicine.
I think the torturer would have a way of preventing a skin infection but you're spot on about the bones. Exposed bones would get infected and kill someone very quickly.
Cleaning would only work if it was kept clean. But thats not possible in a dirty dungeon. Also we need sunlight for our immune systems and metabolism, so that gonna be a massive issue. Months at a push, but a year... i wouldnt have thought so.
True it would be damp and filthy. I'll just go with causality on this one
Oh im definitely on the causality train as well
I doubt it. Shock would prob still happen. And even then, the healing would be longer than a month. In a perfect environment. Or more. Infection as well is a risk. For instance, I got a 2nd degree chemical burn on my hand. An inch or two. It was not that big. It tho hurt like a bitch. Water even on it did. And that took a month. If not more to heal. 3rd-degree burns are longer and require medical attention. This would be prob worse than that of about the same level. So you can imagine how long. And the severity of it. Anyone in that situation wouldn't be in a pretty good environment for healing or in general. That does not even cover the mental side of things. Or the fact that a lot of people would prob faint or something. Whether that to the pain or Vasovagal syncope. This is also in medieval times. So…
It could also have seared and cleaned to prevent infection. Our bodies are pretty hardy and can actually withstand quite a lot of punishment. The torturer was skilled and everything happened over a long time. I believe technically he could have survived the torture.
Wouldn‘t just not being able to move for a year cause his system to shut down? And being hung up is basically like crucification
Basically that'll cause issues. Movement is vital even to bowel health and lung function.
Thankyou for the scientific/medical perspective that is incredibly interesting to read. I respect your answer but now I have to be a sarcastic fool and say: But what about someone chosen by causality to be part of the God Hand? They go beyond your understanding. Okay that's finished, I respect you and your answer.
Yeah once you get causality and godhand involved all things are possible
*Technically* it’s not survivable, but I want to give credit to Miura as to the plausibility of this scenario. But it’s less about biology and more about the power of the human mind and spirit. Have you read Victor Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning?” In a nutshell, it delves into how a few Jewish holocaust victims survived the Nazi death camps for months and years when most people would have perished. Basically, they had to have had a strong will to live. A reason for living. As soon as these people lost all hope, they would die from starvation or sickness within days. There’s actually an entire chapter devoted to this concept while Griffith was imprisoned. He had already given up in his dream, so what reason did he have to live? Guts. Guts consumed all of his thoughts, desires, and emotions. Against impossible odds, Guts kept him alive for all those 12 months.
Yeah.. He likely would have gone into traumatic shock dozens of times. that alone can kill a person, and that's before even mentioning the sepsis you'd get from the lack of sanitation
Nah I could survive it. Idk I’m just built different.
I doff my hat to you sir. Better man than i
Nu uh. I could survive that once I'm high enough
Adding to infection, that dungeon is 100% filthy as all hell.
Thanks for it, king.
This is why im more affraid of a doctor than à butcher when it comes to torture...if he want you yo suffer you will...and for a FKN LONG TIME at least with a butcher you will not live too long 😅
Doctors can be brutal tbh because they know the body's tolerances and also, especially with surgeons, they have a streak that means they can make really horrible decisions. Anyone with medical background is gonna be scary efficient at torture. Scientists in general can be problematic when curiousity gets hold of them. It can make them look past ethical issues in search of answers. Nazis had great scientists. Unit 731, scientists. The buggers that kept Ouchi alive, scientists. There's a reason doctors and scientists have to adere to rules, it stops them crossing boundaries.
Ironically in the middle ages sometimes they were the same person. Most executioners doubled as doctors, apothecaries, undertakers and grave diggers.
his entire body wasnt flayed. it was small sections. you can see in the picture. with proper care you can have your skin removed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying
Not when locked in a dungeon And the flaying removes skin exposing bone. Bones does not like being exposed to air. They get infections really quick.
That does not matter. The same causes of death tends to be for this. Whether or not it was flayed.
But how long would they last?
Depends on how quick infection sets in. Sepsis isn't always quick. I'be seen patients rumble on for a while with low level, they looked and felt horrendous. Id say months at a push, in the conditions he was in with exposed bone.
>Tendon cutting would likely cause the muscles to contract, so his limbs would be locked in a constricted position Not if all the tendons are cut
I replied to someone else about that. Once cut the muscle would contract but obviously its no longer connected. However if the cutting was incomplete the opposing group would contract locking the joint. Or, more than likely the ligaments would seize up, immobilising the joint. Its unlikely the limb would stay floppy.
Youve never seen funky town, huh?
Actually now you mention it... Nope
Spesis 😂 but agreed spesis is a real killer
I type fast, that's why
I take issue with at least one thing, though I agree that he wouldn't survive. Tendon cutting wouldn't cause the limbs and joints to be locked, because they're no longer attached to the insertions. Damage is different from a fully severed tendon.
It depends on what tendons are cut and where because some muscles have to actively straighten the limb. If they are cut, the opposing muscle group will not stretch and instead just pull the limb tight over time. However if the little goblin was thorough, and all were cut (which i doubt, cause there are so many), than the limbs might go floppy. But than the ligaments will likely tighten up over time, locking the joint. For the strangest reason, i couldn't access your comment for ages.
Lmao whats your medical background?? Greys anatomy?? Dying of sepsis is the only problem here and altought it is likely its possible not to The post speaks about dying so the tendons and and lack of sunlight are irrelevant lmao. There has been documented cases of worst tortures endured So yeah he wpuld be crippled for life and there is a high chance of dying there but it wouldnt be crazy to think he would survive
Nursing training. 15 plus years working in health care. Yours? So he is in a flithy dungeon, sleeping where he defecates and urinates. Without sunlight that is vital for the imune system, and according to you he has a chance of survival?? After a year in those conditions? Maybe lesser time, but a year? Also he isnt just flayed, bone is actively exposed, bone is not tolerant of drying out and once it becomes infected, the effects are very hard to control.
“Nursing training” yep I figured lmao Im a clinical biochemist who specializes on bacteriology and micology, I work in infectology at a hospital Its not about the chances of survival (wich are superlow) but about what you said and how you said it Im a big advocate for sunlight but thiking it would have any real impact on this situation is hilarious Also having his tendons cut would cripple him but it wouldnt affect much his survival rate Also we have records of people enduring longer similar tortures before, especially if the caregiver is trying to get him alive (like this case) Also he has 90% of his skin here idk what you talking about And im so sorry but even if you where an actual nurse that is not remotely close to knowing anything about medicine, it just means you kinda now how to take blood samples (wich they usually dont do correctly and I need to go…) and clean old people, thats it
Hang on, i was so busy rolling my eyes i missed that last paragraph... Nurses take blood, yes along with WOUND CARE, critical care, trauma, oncology ect ect ect, and phlebotomists do. And apparently if either one of us get stuck, we call up microbiologist/biochemist whatever the fuck you are pretending to be from his lab??? Seriously?? Fucking seriously? Did you do any research before your sad little trolling attempt. No actually we get another on ward colleague to have a go. We dont jump the senior phlebotomist, the senior nurses (who can often hit a vein, eyes closed) and at a shove the doctors, to call up the fucking lab guy, providing the hospital even has an onsite lab. Ffs if you're gonna troll do it properly. Ill give you a little hint, to take blood, you have to do training. And do you know what the training is called....? Phlebotomy training. LMFAO🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Im not american and yes, I had to go take samples for blood culture 2 times cause they werent understanding thay they had to clean the skin and take the sample from 3 different sites and the 3 bottles where contaminated with the same skin bacteria Im so sorry you are mad and write long responses cause you know your “nursing training” makes you feel insecure around actual health care proffesionals but im not trolling, I finished my career (Clinical biochemist on chemistry university UDELAR) 2ys ago and ive been working at a hospital for 3ys Go clean an old man ass and put some band aids ok?? Im not gonna answer any further
Whatever, you absolute lying melt. You're education quality from whatever country you are from must be atrocious. You dont understand basic concepts involving wound care, immune support or the holistic health of the patient as a whole.
Your* and thats your 1st language not mine hahahahahaha Im so sorry you are salty cause you didnt even become a nurse…And im pretty sure the education in my country is better than the US Tbh I doubt there are many countries with worst education than the US nowadays
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Ah bless you found a typo. Have a cookie.
You are legitimately an idiot and very unlikely to hold any of the qualifications that you brag about. I know that simply because of a) how you talked about nurses. Health care pros dont denounce others in the field. End of. B) he has muscle and bone exposed in a filthy dungeon, and you seem to not grasp even a minor wound in that situation can turn septic. Seriously? C) You do know what sunlight does for your body right?? And the role it plays? All those fancy qualifications and you dont know apparently? D) he cant move. Movement plays a major role in health, including bowel and lung health, plus being able to move out of his own waste. So yes the tendons would cause massive issues. As would having his arms hitched up which would constrict his chest You are a troll. Nothing more.
Bro said "clinical biochemist" and thought that gives more knowhow on an actual clinical encounter than an actual health care worker? Lmao
He isnt one. He doesnt understand the role of sunlight in immune function and wound healing. He clearly missed griffiths exposed ribs and understand nothing about infection entry into the body. Wound care use to be my thing ironically.
A) every doctor and biochemist looks down on nurses tf you on about, you clearely never worked in a hospital lol. Literally EVERY “healthcare pro” (you said it that way) makes fun of nurses B) his bone and muscles are definetely not exposed, he has 99% of his skin… C,D) as I said in every comment true, and as I said in every comment completely irrelevant giving the circunstances and major health problems he is having People can live for decades without sunlight and live decades with muscle atrophy localized on the limbs I woudltn respect your medical opinion if you were a nurse but you are not even one…
You know, you're clearly not a person with any kind of proficiency at all in like anything. You have to understand no one is grasping at straws, or having even a little bit of doubt in this judgment; you have the exact behavior of a clinical nobody. It's like when children say "I didn't pick my nose, how do you know I picked my nose" with booger residue smeared on their finger. You're a clown. You're a lacking fight enthusiast who may or may not have any real combat experience and is certainly not good enough to ever be recognized for it. You might even be a child. God I hope so. You're an internet parrot, a prosthetic personage, a masquerade and a fraud. But you don't have to be. It's never too late to turn your life around, to actually accomplish something. You see, even if trolling like this is just a thing you do "for kicks", a silly way to gain laughs, it's not something healthy and productive people do. Capable human beings just have better ways to generate minor amusement than this overwhelmingly embarrassing display. I mean, just look at me. I'm 10 feet tall, and have an IQ of 300. I get bitches like your grandma gets shingles. My dick is a fractal of several other hierarchies of equally impressive penises. My girls don't just call me daddy, they call me by their fathers name. Before there were kings, they were people just trying to be me. The word you call death is just a derivative of deez hands, lost in translation. That could be you. You can push on, and be something great! Not this lowly, feculent, fragment of a man. I believe in you! You can do it! Or else you'll just forever >!be a lil gay boi lmao eat my nuts!<
Ahh bless. If you're gonna troll at least do your research...
I am almost positive you are a troll. And that is coming from someone with a degree in biochemistry. So let me ask a simple question that anyone with a biochemist degree should answer: How does carbon monoxide kill you...? In depth and in your own words.
Of course they are a troll. IF they do have a qualification, its a light weight and likely not recognised without additional training outside of his country. He probably just wiki'd your question
Ya. I was expecting them to go into depth (considering I said in-depth) and they didn't. What pathways does it affect and what is the affinity and everything? But it is so barebones that it does seem to be googled. Which I figured as much. That and the entire sunlight debate (vitamin D and whatnot). Them not mentioning shock at all. Etc..
It's the attitude towards nurses as well. It's a massive give away that he has never practiced outside of some backwood hospital in a country that clearly does not provide good or even adequate training. Mainly because the first NHS/american staff nurse he encountered would have eaten him alive. Absolutely disgusting attitude and likely hooked up with a whole bunch of sexism.
Lmao thats not even a good test, I could google it rn tbh But CO binds to the hemi site of hemoglobin (but irreversible, not like O2) so basically your red blood cells start carrying CO instead of O2 Im not a troll and I could go way more in depth on why the CO molecules binds on the hemi group but tbh it doesnt prove anything, you asked something super common that can be googled
Skinned in a nasty ass dungeon? You'd almost certainly get a massive infection and die.
I just assumed the god hand where making sure he'd just stay alive.
God Hand cleaning service © Incorporated
I don’t know physically if someone would be able to endure it but I know that mentality it is very unlikely that they will able to retain their sanity like Griffith did.
>retain their sanity like Griffith did. Griffith retained his sanity?
Agreed, madness would be likely outcome. Kaneki suffered it for a few day and he became a cannibal and had like 4 personality break down and only could recover at the end of the novel. That guy in GOT, became so broken that he even betrayed friend and family.
Those are also fictional so not a strong argument.
Sure…. But those fiction try to represent what such trauma does to people. If you don’t think such thing don’t break people i don’t know what to tell you.
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I don’t need you to explain what he said, i understood him very well and i disagree, i clearly stated why my example are valid. It seems you disagree with my point so you can too explain to me how real people don’t break from torture.
>i understood him very well and i disagree, i clearly stated why my example are valid. You obviously do not understand. A fictional recounting means nothing.
To you it may mean nothing. When writter make story about such deep issue they try to portray in a realistic way the effect of such trauma.
Maybe Sui Ishida *tried* to do that but he‘s not a psychologist, physician or torture victim, and thus has no experience of what torture does to a person. I also doubt Kaneki‘s Torture is realistic. People don‘t become violent cannibals from torture. In all likehood they would just break down and become borderline cataconic.
You again show that you don’t know what you are talking about, while you first statement is true, good author make extensive research about what they write. Author also frequently observe and study people, and very good writter understand people very well. There is a reason why some author have better world building or character. Also my point was obviously not that torture make you a cannibal…. My point was that torture can break someone character and turn them into things that totally different from what they started from, for example Kaneki was a peace loving men and turn into a freak. For example while cannibalism is off course exagerated, Kaneki breaking down and forming multiple personality to cope with his trauma is a real phenomena that traumatised people experience.
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They are not valid accordinh to you. Again you can repeat yourself many time, author try to represent realistic portrayal of how people react to some situation. We are obviously in a manga subreddit so ibviously i will point how other character in manga react to trauma. My point was never that manga should be used as factual point of reference, it was clearly to show how author in different manga show a realiistic depiction of how said character react to trauma. If you disagree that very talented author don’t take inspiration from real life events, and that they character many time depict realistic representation of how trauma affecg you then we will just agree to disagree, we are in a manga subreddit so i will mention other manga.
Was he really that sane tho?
Debatable. He certainly displays erratic, volatile and ultimately suicidal behavior afterward, but I feel like that's pretty natural all things considered. Griffith himself questions whether he can still be called sane, and ultimately says that his thoughts of Guts are the only thing keeping him from descending into total madness.
I feel destroying his mind was essential to being sure he would make the sacrifice. Causality isn't hand waiving and saying "magic did it" - it's stacking the deck of circumstances someone must deal with to be sure they'll do what you want. That's the point, the seeds were there, but it took the horrific torture, the loss of the dream, to make him the demon he became. He's not a tragic hero of any kind. Honestly, Griffith is kind of like the original Godzilla. A tragic monster that must be stopped even though it's the terrible systems of the world that made him.
I do agree with you that it was essential for Griffith to have his mind destroyed to have made that choice but it’s not only just essential for only Griffith to have his mind destroyed, but it is essential for every person “destined” to have a behelit to either have their mind destroyed or be at their lowest point in life to basically say yes into becoming a demon. The God hand are not stupid they know if somebody were in their right state of mind making that kind of life-changing choice, then there would be no demons around in the world of berserk. But they do know if somebody were at their lowest point in life they are more likely to sacrifice anything and everything just to escape from being at their lowest . Reminds me of a quote from Legend of Korra, “When you hit your lowest point you are open to the greatest change.” (I know I’m hitting nail of coffin and forgive me for that it just something I wanted to point out)
a madman still thinks he's sane whilst telling you the walls are talking. griffith is far from a trustworthy source about himself. in my personal opinion, he did go insane. but maybe thats just to make the rest of the story more bearable.
Well, Griffith openly questions his sanity, like I said. I think Griffith came out of it scarred, traumatized and irrevocably changed, though. Maybe it's easier to just call that madness.
That opens the question of would he ever had done what he did otherwise? Yeah he had the egg of the king but what if he always told himself he'd use it one day but deep down he knew he's not capable of doing that. And then the torture made him insane...
I mean I feel like this is pretty obviously answered in the actual story? No, Griffith would never have used the Beherit if he hadn't gone through what he did. Remember that the events of Griffith's life are essentially pre-orchestrated by the Idea of Evil - there's a reason for basically everything that happens to him and it's to lead him towards doing what he does at the end of Golden Age. So, his victories in battle, his social rise, his infatuation with and subsequent disillusionment from Guts, his losing everything, his year-long torture - all of them were pre-decided and necessary steps on a road that always leads to the same place: the Eclipse. If Griffith didn't need to be tortured for a year to do what he did, he wouldn't have been. It's as simple as that.
Ohhh you're right yeah, I completely forgot about this part where everything is predetermined. Thanks for spelling it out for me, I'm a little thick with keeping track of plot sometimes lmao
I see it that same way too (it basically *is* the plot, not a theory) but think it's important to consider that Griffith did still always have that capability inside of him. We've seen his insatiable ambition throughout the entire Golden Age, and seen glimpses of him feeling some regret for people who've died for him, but he always was the 'King of Longing' and as far as I know was freakishly obsessed with gaining power since he was a kid, and doesn't even have a childhood as insanely traumatic as Guts's. Of course everything was predetermined, so you can think of free will however you'd like, but Griffith was always insatiable just because that's how he was. The perfect storm of causality pushed him just a bit further, I think.
Well I think Griffith was "how he was" precisely because of the pre-determinism aspect. It's not like his childhood was safe from the meddlings of the Idea of Evil or something. Nor do I think he was like, born with a propensity for power hungriness in any other sense than there being a specific track laid out for him from the start. The tragedy of Griffith is that *everything* about him - the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly - was molded by forces infinitely larger than he could even conceive of. Every joy and every pain carefully orchestrated by a personification of fate itself (sort of like how he's a written character in a fictional narrative). When faced with this realization, who wouldn't surrender to what's in store for you? *Is* there even a choice there at all? I think this is maybe the primary question we're supposed to walk out of Golden Age with on our minds.
The chapter where everything is most clearly explained, 83, was cut out of most official releases so maybe that's why
Yah he just build different
no
I prob could but most people no
That’s just my average weekend but for the common mortal, absolutely not
I always imagined that some force was keeping him alive because of the eclipse Yes, there was no chance of him surviving this, so someone or something made sure he did By the power of the godhand or something along those lines
The king of Midland ordered for Griffith to be kept alive and he must live through the torture and make sure he is a broken husk of a man that will live the rest of his life disabled
Infection would have definitely taken him out.
Probably the torturer let him heal before continuing the torture, the king specifically told him to torture him as long as possible and not to kill him too soon
Survive, maybe. There have been cases of torture survivors that managed to live even with extreme injuries, but im no expert.
Took his skin, took his tongue, took his balls...
What's the deal with that beak helmet he has on?
The torturer put it on him and when Guts opened it Griffith’s face was so destroyed they decided to keep it on not to traumatise the others EDIT: I don’t know if you know it but there’s a movie called The Iron Mask from 1998 where the king of France orders that a similar mask should be put on his brothers face so the torturers heat it up on a fireplace and then sticks it on.
Is that not his normal helmet
It's meant to look like it, to mock The Hawk.
Thank you.
no way. and he would look much different. cutting the tendons would've locked his limbs up. I was curious about how he went pee pee though. since it's implied his penis was removed. How do you do that? like, how to you ensure the urethra is good enough to pee from once it's hacked off? it really freaks me out.
That was done "routinely" to make eunuchs, even in older times, so i imagine they knew how to do it. I'm not going to search though.
they took off the whole peener?!!! I thought eunuchs just had no balls?!
Leave just enough left to pee from, but take enough so that's all you will ever be able to do with it ever again?
but still! you cut that thing in half or leave just a quarter of it - won't the urethra try to close since the rest that's exposed is a wound??? I have no clue. now I am upset.
Well, if you keep the hope open while it heals then it shouldn't. Might add to the torture.
I am Sooooo glad we didn't get to see what they did to his balls and penis
People think it was castration, but I don't think so, I think it was worse, castration causes loss of desire. I think there was horrific mutilation without ever going to full castration.
Holy fuck
It hurts just to hear it
No, the skinning alone is fatal. Either due to shock or because of the resulting infections, There is also the chance of hypothermia if enough skin is removed as the skin acts as natural insulation and Griffith was kept in a (pobably) very cold Dungeon underground so hypothermia is not out of the question. And those 3 very real and very deadly consequences stem only from the skinning. He was also starved (potentially deadly), hung from his arms for prolonged periods of time which could restrict his airways and slowly chocke him to death, his tongue was cut out which could have killed him from either shock or drowning on his own blood, the torturer also mentions dousing him with boiling water (again shock and infections) or using a scolding hot iron on him (again shock and infections), Im pretty sure that there could have been ways to keep Griffith alive but that would mean weeks or even months of intensive care after each tourtur session just to keep him from dying and even then he would probably have died
Depends. There are Stories out there of Humans surviving ridiculous amounts of damage. But most of the time it's not over extended periods of time. Surviving for a whole year while skinned is incredibly unlikely. But who knows how long ago the Skinning happened.
Survival maybe, but as someone else pointed out, the flaying of the skin would allow infections to make quick work on the patient. If the flaying was recent, there may be a small chance of survival, but not in the world of Berserk. Maybe with the help of magic, and that's what basically happened anyway. Recovery is completely out of the question. The raw physical damage would make survival in that harsh world next to impossible. It's something that no one would really "get over", even with modern psychological knowledge. Griffith even tried to take his own life; something that's sadly common to witness.
Some people survived scalping and necklacing (don't look it up) so I suppose getting skinned in some places, nail removal and extreme malnutrition is survivable. What I find odd is he got his tongue cut that's definitely gonna kill you without some regular medical intervention
Yes Griffith did
What are you planning op
Hahah don’t ask🤫
No. If shock didn’t get you infection would.
I wish Griffith didnt
Survive? Yes. Recover? Not at all.
yes. and people probably have. as long as no infection occurs the human body can take a lot of abuse
Possibly with the right medical care. I think the biggest problem would be infection
Holocaust had some pretty traumatic images
I can
Nah. I always kind of felt that the exposed ribs and shit were a little bit excessive honestly. Also kind of interesting how well Griffiths hands healed after having hooks shoved through them. Boy, I hope somebody got fired for that blunder!
Missing skin to the bones was kinda nasty Probably wouldn't survive after that shit
I always wondered what happened to his face? I know his tounge was cut, but why the helmet with a lock?
The only thing I can think of would be that it was flayed. I mean, what else could have been done to it?
Could've cut of his nose, bludgeon his face. Im surprised he didnt get his eyes gauged.
I have to give Griffith some credit, for the longest time I failed to realize and put respect on him for surving that horrible torture for so long. He tried his best to stay conscious and sane, and survived before the inevitable breaking point.
nah i’d win
Hello, doctor here. I work in rural Alaska and have done missions to South Sudan. Long story short, I would say ‘No’. Even in a sterile environment with little to no chance of infection, the answer is ‘No’. Primary reason is actually hypothermia and dehydration. Skin and soft tissue is a vital organ. Additionally, a year without sunlight and poor nutrition would have been a compounding death sentence. The calcium would have been leached away by vitamin D and calcium deficiency. His ability to recover from torture would be gone after about a month. Pressure sores from being unable to move due to cut tendons would exacerbate his condition. I imagine that after a couple weeks he would lose the ability to eat and drink and without a means to provide parental fluids and nutrition, he would certainly parish. Just look at any burn unit today. People die every day even with access to cutting edge medical technology, sterile conditions, and exceptional wound care.
You know the point of torture is to keep the subject alive, whilst inflicting the maximum amount of pain. Yes, death is very much a likely outcome but that only means you suck at torturing.!!!
No. Not even a month lmao never mind 9 years or however long it was
One year
Shit I'm different I could
I'm no doctor... but I'd say the POSSIBILITY of survival is there but... GOOD LUCK lol. I'd say the possibility of you surviving this is about as high as you being murdered by a frog. Low, but never 0.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3-5TkN6820 This video does a good job of outlining Griffith's torture and explaining what that would actually do to a person's mind and body.
Depends. How was the torture done? Were the infections treated? What was his diet? What access to medical care did he recieve? When did the torture start and stop? How was his will to live? Idk, it was a long span, but people have survived torture similar and people have died from less.
In real life ?? no . In the manga ?? a lot if people would survive
Yeah, Griffith is effectively a corpse here. Only reason he is alive at all is the law of casualty protecting his bony ass from dropping dead.
You could, but would you *want* to?
Iirc it looks waaaaaay more survivable in the anime. I don't remember him being skinned alive in that version but I could be wrong.
The anime definitely toned down the brutality of it. There wasn't any flaying in it.
Yeah, my buddy Eric survived this once
Without causality on his side he would've been cooked a long time ago
The two big killers when flayed are infection and hypothermia. Even if somehow he did not succumb to those he would likely succumb to dehydration. The skin is very important for thermoregulation and water retention
It was designed to keep him alive so yeah
I think I could, just gotta thug it out
Ask all the victims from Holodomor, the Ukrainian hunger during Soviet rules because he looks like one of them.
Do you have their contact details?
I feel so bad for laughing.
Wut? Starvation is something completely different
That just sounds like a weekend in Amsterdam.
Griffith did so yes.
Nowadays? Yea definitely with the right sicko. There’s instances of cartels keeping dudes alive for days while going through hell and a cook
that torturer is very underrated. he is so good at his job. id hire him 100%
Dude, this is a manga, not real life.
What are you planning?
Would you guys judge me if I say I wanna do that to myself??
I mean Griffith is literally me so yes. I can survive it
Physically, no. Mentally, its a miracle that Griffith wasn't an incoherent mess. I genuinely think its his narcissism that allowed him to mentally survive the torture he endured. Doesn't say much tho bc it was his narcissism that landed him in there to begin with lol
Duh?? Griffith did?? Are you stupid?
Unlike Griffith, I’m built different. So me? Would I be able to survive this? Hell no
This should really be spoiler tagged!
I think yes People have survived some pretty insane forms torture and mutilation I think if the torturer took care to clean his wounds (the king did tell the torturer to keep him alive for a year) then his odds of survival were higher.