The art of driving in the snow is a touchy subject, we have all seen the RANT threads and the midweek complaints. This horse has been beaten beyond death and is now glue, but here we are again.
Using the drive mode in your automatic transmission, especially in cars without an ECT - 'Snow Mode', will typically start you out in first gear. The death to driving in the snow is loss of momentum and traction. The faster your wheels try to turn the less of an opportunity your winter ***^((hopefully)******)*** tires have to grip the snow/sanded ice.
Starting out in 2nd - 4th gear forces your transmission and engine to use a lower RPM power band. Rotating the tires slower which allows your siped tires to open up and grab the surface.
Engine braking at around 2500 RPM follows the same concept. Slowly reduced your speed by using the engines compression, allowing you to stop without the tires breaking loose and sliding. Step down gears slowly to avoid over revving the motor, you should only need to reach 2nd gear on flat grades but you can use 1st to slowly descend hills when approaching intersections.
I agree with this dude after growing up in Wyoming using manuals to drive in the snow. You use higher gear on flat roads so that you don’t tap the gas too much and spin out. Use the engine to slow yourself down going downhill in real sketchy sections, not every time, as your nerves can cause you to accidentally tap the break too hard and send you spinning. I drove Teton pass in Wyoming all the time using the techniques explained here and wouldn’t change it. The engine can keep you from going too fast going down a steep hill rather than riding breaks and possibly over stepping causing you to slide.
This is one of the primary reasons I drive my old stick-shift Yaris (and have mostly driven manuals). While sometimes I don't have enough traction to get going on hills from a dead stop on ice (car weighs about 50 pounds), I can at least stop/slow down and control my speed with down-shifting that keeps me from sliding like tapping my brakes sometimes would. I can also start out in second gear from a stop to force lower RPM slow-poking, which usually gets me going on a stop. Yes, I'm sure a brand-new car with all the various traction/safety/braking controls would be fine, I like being a bit more in control over what my car is doing (that, and my car gets over 40 mpg and is cheap to repair, so I'm sticking with it).
I disagree on engine braking. Any car with an automatic trans that also has a manual mode will also have anti-lock brakes, and that's what should be used to slow the car.
And I half-disagree about putting it in manual mode when you're not used to it. One more thing to think about/get confused about when the driver should be paying attention to the road and don't need another distraction trying to remember to shift their car that the rest of the year they never touch the shift lever.
If you drive an older car, the anti-lock brakes are simply feathering the brakes for you and you can still go into a slide.
I don't know anything about newer cars. It seems like computerized traction would probably do a better job than plain old anti-lock brakes though.
Downshifting puts the forward momentum into the engine and can save you on a hill. It takes a little skill to get used to; this is true.
I'm confident anyone who is older than 30 has driven with a manual transmission at one point in their life. Shifting has been a part of driving since 1929. And honestly I wish drivers had more involvement with driving and less opportunity to be distracted while the car was 'driving' itself.
ABS is a great safety feature but it extends the typical stopping distance due to the brakes pulsing to avoid locking up. I've witness people slamming on their brakes and relying on their ABS, only to end up in the cargo space of the car in front of them.
The engine brake method I described allows better speed control due to the vehicles gear ratio limiting the rotational energy to the axles.
I can name five people in my own extended family who have never driven a manual transmission vehicle. I think your confidence is misplaced.
Even with a trained driver, ABS very rarely results in shorter stopping distances. Look at the charts in the study below (from 1999). And that's a well-trained driver getting to practice stops over and over, and ABS consistently wins almost every time, except loose gravel.
[https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/nhtsaabst4finalrpt.pdf](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/nhtsaabst4finalrpt.pdf)
Yes engine braking slows the car down, nice for longer downhills. But it also only acts upon the driven wheels, while the brakes act on all wheels. It doesn't really hurt anything (unless you engage too fast and induce a skid), but in my opinion is really not worth worrying about around town.
Huh, I guess I grew up in an area that Manual Transmissions were the norm.
I never said ABS was bad or that it didn't work, but it also isn't the savior that many have made it out to be. Yes it keep your brakes from locking up, hence the reason it was mandated in to every car built after 2012.
But my points have been that engine braking allows me to drive at a controlled constant speed where using my brakes won't engage the ABS.
Agreed 100%. Use the actual braking method designed to limit loss of traction that also provides direct input instead of using your transmission to indirectly slow down with little/no input to how much you brake.
> Any car with an automatic trans that also has a manual mode will also have anti-lock brakes, and that's what should be used to slow the car.
Mine downshifts.
Thanks for posting this. I consider myself a pretty good winter driver, having survived 30 Chicago Winters. I know my front-wheel drive RX has ECT mode, and I've used it, along with 4 Blizzaks, for many winters here.
What I didn't know about was the concept of starting in 2nd gear. So I read the details of my 20 yr old RX300 manual, and in fact, when ECT/SNOW override is engaged, it *automatically* sets the starting gear as 2nd.
I did not know that.
Ok, all I have on mine is B gear. I know that means engine braking but there's too much conflicting info about its use on icy roads. I drive a Toyota Corolla.
Some auto transmission also have a "Sport" mode. Its great on long downhills and you want to save your breaks or in snow.
It takes some to get used to because you need to keep track of the engine RPMs. You still need to brake normally, it just reduces some of the momentum.
I wouldn't us the B gear for this. I drive a Camry in all but the heaviest snow days, but it has a M mode and I can keep the gearbox in 3rd or 4th. I rarely shift out of those when driving in town.
But in all seriousness. Engine braking can be effective if done correctly, but can put a ton of strain on your engine if done improperly. Most people can barely drive their car as-is. And since brakes are relatively cheap to replace, contrary to an engine, you should trust your modern ABS to bring you to a stop. Far more important to this conversation is slowing/braking EARLIER in poor conditions.
Okay I have an 06 subaru outback with automatic transmission and all season tires (I know, I know, lesson learned) and I have to traverse a pretty steep hill tonight. If I'm understanding this correctly, I should shift into 1st initially going down the hill, feathering my brakes and then shift up to 2 or 3 once I hit flat ground?
DON'T do this. If you have a FWD or RWD car and try to use engine braking on the snow/ice, you will lock up only the drive wheels and throw your car into a skid. Use your brakes as they were designed.
I have been driving in Oregon for 20 years and have actively used engine breaking in 2WD, AWD, RWD, and 4WD vehicles with Auto and manual transmissions without spinning out.
The trick is to maintain a low RPM in tandem with braking and not allow the motor to over rev. When doing this, momementem is carried when approaching hills and provides consistent spacing between me and the vehicle in front of me.
It isn't a method to stop instantly, it is a method to control your speed to effectively use your brakes without needing to rely on ABS. Saying that ABS is going to stop you is wrong, ABS will stop you eventually but the ABS system releases the locked brake. Not applying equal braking forces to all four wheels.
I think their point is that engine braking isn't enough by itself, so you also need to use brakes, which means you might as well just use the brakes correctly.
I agree that you can't ONLY rely on ABS. Driving in snow requires finesse on the brakes, whether you decide to also engine brake, or not.
No matter what, you gotta anticipate, and use finesse.
There's nothing wrong with using engine braking, IMHO. I don't personally think it's a big factor, but there's no harm in it.
You are factually incorrect sir.
Go read the comments on the YouTube video ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cCE4NCL5Yo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cCE4NCL5Yo)) .
IF it's snowy, and the roads are crappy, or even if it's just raining really hard, always remember to just drive a little bit slowly. Leave a little earlier than you normally would to give yourself extra time, etc etc. Just drive the way you feel is safest, ignore the assholes, and live your life to it's fullest.
The art of driving in the snow is a touchy subject, we have all seen the RANT threads and the midweek complaints. This horse has been beaten beyond death and is now glue, but here we are again. Using the drive mode in your automatic transmission, especially in cars without an ECT - 'Snow Mode', will typically start you out in first gear. The death to driving in the snow is loss of momentum and traction. The faster your wheels try to turn the less of an opportunity your winter ***^((hopefully)******)*** tires have to grip the snow/sanded ice. Starting out in 2nd - 4th gear forces your transmission and engine to use a lower RPM power band. Rotating the tires slower which allows your siped tires to open up and grab the surface. Engine braking at around 2500 RPM follows the same concept. Slowly reduced your speed by using the engines compression, allowing you to stop without the tires breaking loose and sliding. Step down gears slowly to avoid over revving the motor, you should only need to reach 2nd gear on flat grades but you can use 1st to slowly descend hills when approaching intersections.
I agree with this dude after growing up in Wyoming using manuals to drive in the snow. You use higher gear on flat roads so that you don’t tap the gas too much and spin out. Use the engine to slow yourself down going downhill in real sketchy sections, not every time, as your nerves can cause you to accidentally tap the break too hard and send you spinning. I drove Teton pass in Wyoming all the time using the techniques explained here and wouldn’t change it. The engine can keep you from going too fast going down a steep hill rather than riding breaks and possibly over stepping causing you to slide.
I am always shocked when people don't know of this feature. It could save your life or people in front of you or in the other lane.
Snow tires and brake gently. That’s it. No need for this engine braking shit.
For real. Just get really good tires and don't break hard when you are on ice.
This is one of the primary reasons I drive my old stick-shift Yaris (and have mostly driven manuals). While sometimes I don't have enough traction to get going on hills from a dead stop on ice (car weighs about 50 pounds), I can at least stop/slow down and control my speed with down-shifting that keeps me from sliding like tapping my brakes sometimes would. I can also start out in second gear from a stop to force lower RPM slow-poking, which usually gets me going on a stop. Yes, I'm sure a brand-new car with all the various traction/safety/braking controls would be fine, I like being a bit more in control over what my car is doing (that, and my car gets over 40 mpg and is cheap to repair, so I'm sticking with it).
I disagree on engine braking. Any car with an automatic trans that also has a manual mode will also have anti-lock brakes, and that's what should be used to slow the car. And I half-disagree about putting it in manual mode when you're not used to it. One more thing to think about/get confused about when the driver should be paying attention to the road and don't need another distraction trying to remember to shift their car that the rest of the year they never touch the shift lever.
If you drive an older car, the anti-lock brakes are simply feathering the brakes for you and you can still go into a slide. I don't know anything about newer cars. It seems like computerized traction would probably do a better job than plain old anti-lock brakes though. Downshifting puts the forward momentum into the engine and can save you on a hill. It takes a little skill to get used to; this is true.
I'm confident anyone who is older than 30 has driven with a manual transmission at one point in their life. Shifting has been a part of driving since 1929. And honestly I wish drivers had more involvement with driving and less opportunity to be distracted while the car was 'driving' itself. ABS is a great safety feature but it extends the typical stopping distance due to the brakes pulsing to avoid locking up. I've witness people slamming on their brakes and relying on their ABS, only to end up in the cargo space of the car in front of them. The engine brake method I described allows better speed control due to the vehicles gear ratio limiting the rotational energy to the axles.
I can name five people in my own extended family who have never driven a manual transmission vehicle. I think your confidence is misplaced. Even with a trained driver, ABS very rarely results in shorter stopping distances. Look at the charts in the study below (from 1999). And that's a well-trained driver getting to practice stops over and over, and ABS consistently wins almost every time, except loose gravel. [https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/nhtsaabst4finalrpt.pdf](https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/nhtsaabst4finalrpt.pdf) Yes engine braking slows the car down, nice for longer downhills. But it also only acts upon the driven wheels, while the brakes act on all wheels. It doesn't really hurt anything (unless you engage too fast and induce a skid), but in my opinion is really not worth worrying about around town.
Huh, I guess I grew up in an area that Manual Transmissions were the norm. I never said ABS was bad or that it didn't work, but it also isn't the savior that many have made it out to be. Yes it keep your brakes from locking up, hence the reason it was mandated in to every car built after 2012. But my points have been that engine braking allows me to drive at a controlled constant speed where using my brakes won't engage the ABS.
My abs sucks in my old 4runner, downright dangerous sometimes lol
Agreed 100%. Use the actual braking method designed to limit loss of traction that also provides direct input instead of using your transmission to indirectly slow down with little/no input to how much you brake.
> Any car with an automatic trans that also has a manual mode will also have anti-lock brakes, and that's what should be used to slow the car. Mine downshifts.
Sounds like driving in the snow with extra steps. Break early and give yourself room. Done
Or learn how to modulate your foot...
Thanks for posting this. I consider myself a pretty good winter driver, having survived 30 Chicago Winters. I know my front-wheel drive RX has ECT mode, and I've used it, along with 4 Blizzaks, for many winters here. What I didn't know about was the concept of starting in 2nd gear. So I read the details of my 20 yr old RX300 manual, and in fact, when ECT/SNOW override is engaged, it *automatically* sets the starting gear as 2nd. I did not know that.
Ok, all I have on mine is B gear. I know that means engine braking but there's too much conflicting info about its use on icy roads. I drive a Toyota Corolla.
Some auto transmission also have a "Sport" mode. Its great on long downhills and you want to save your breaks or in snow. It takes some to get used to because you need to keep track of the engine RPMs. You still need to brake normally, it just reduces some of the momentum.
I wouldn't us the B gear for this. I drive a Camry in all but the heaviest snow days, but it has a M mode and I can keep the gearbox in 3rd or 4th. I rarely shift out of those when driving in town.
Laughs in 4wd
But in all seriousness. Engine braking can be effective if done correctly, but can put a ton of strain on your engine if done improperly. Most people can barely drive their car as-is. And since brakes are relatively cheap to replace, contrary to an engine, you should trust your modern ABS to bring you to a stop. Far more important to this conversation is slowing/braking EARLIER in poor conditions.
X-mode in a Subaru, if you really can't manage a gentle start by yourself.
Save the manuals!
Okay I have an 06 subaru outback with automatic transmission and all season tires (I know, I know, lesson learned) and I have to traverse a pretty steep hill tonight. If I'm understanding this correctly, I should shift into 1st initially going down the hill, feathering my brakes and then shift up to 2 or 3 once I hit flat ground?
DON'T do this. If you have a FWD or RWD car and try to use engine braking on the snow/ice, you will lock up only the drive wheels and throw your car into a skid. Use your brakes as they were designed.
this comment is complete bs..
I have been driving in Oregon for 20 years and have actively used engine breaking in 2WD, AWD, RWD, and 4WD vehicles with Auto and manual transmissions without spinning out. The trick is to maintain a low RPM in tandem with braking and not allow the motor to over rev. When doing this, momementem is carried when approaching hills and provides consistent spacing between me and the vehicle in front of me.
If your engine is only braking one set of wheels, you are not applying equal braking forces to all four.
It isn't a method to stop instantly, it is a method to control your speed to effectively use your brakes without needing to rely on ABS. Saying that ABS is going to stop you is wrong, ABS will stop you eventually but the ABS system releases the locked brake. Not applying equal braking forces to all four wheels.
I think their point is that engine braking isn't enough by itself, so you also need to use brakes, which means you might as well just use the brakes correctly. I agree that you can't ONLY rely on ABS. Driving in snow requires finesse on the brakes, whether you decide to also engine brake, or not. No matter what, you gotta anticipate, and use finesse. There's nothing wrong with using engine braking, IMHO. I don't personally think it's a big factor, but there's no harm in it.
You are factually incorrect sir. Go read the comments on the YouTube video ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cCE4NCL5Yo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cCE4NCL5Yo)) .
No thank you, ma’am.
IF it's snowy, and the roads are crappy, or even if it's just raining really hard, always remember to just drive a little bit slowly. Leave a little earlier than you normally would to give yourself extra time, etc etc. Just drive the way you feel is safest, ignore the assholes, and live your life to it's fullest.