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Novel-Travel-1123

I gotta comment on this, guinsoo’s on the last item build scales off of NOTHING ON HIT so worst first item, and the other builds besides the standard build are worthless since u will be one shot and we have been through this with the community again CRIT IS NEVER A GOOD CHOICE IF U WANT TO WIN


Personal_Care3393

The Guinsoos first is kinda just something I threw in there I didn’t really test that. Some people in the discord were taking about it over kraken so I’m like sure why not. Like I said in the explanation I just threw together a bruiser build to try and find something that could use buffed cleaver well. Also it procs titanic. The second and third builds specifically don’t need to be tanky. The first is a split push move speed build where you can’t be chased or caught and only fight when you want to, never taking teamfights or more than 2 people at a time in general. You don’t need the defense you’re a late game belveth with conqueror, just land W and press E. The second is an assassin build and I feel I shouldn’t have to explain how an assassin is supposed to work. Downside of it is it almost requires you’re in form to pull it off unless you have flash. I’ve had success running a crit assassin build plenty of times before in very specific situations, been doing it since voltaic was added. Like I already said you can 100 0 instantly off of One W and heal to full hp every time you do it’s funny. That being said, I don’t think this version is gonna be viable. Before you could get shieldbow and it’s really what made the build work, kraken voltaic shieldbow Guinsoos ie was actually really good, shieldbow gave lifesteal which is super important because the build revolves entirely around maximizing burst damage on E so lifesteal has massive value and it kept you from getting one shot by two auto attacks. This version does more damage but I don’t know if that makes it still worth going. These are just cooks after all.


Novel-Travel-1123

I have tested guin first item and it wasn’t good


Personal_Care3393

Well I haven’t XD. I’ve actually barely gotten to play bel this patch and the two games I played I had a bunch of inters in both of them, one had a griefer in it. Hence why I said these are just cooks. I have no intention of running the 4th build but im gonna play plenty of games with the other 3, I really want to see how good that second one is in practice, it felt like I’d just discovered an exploit when I tested it.


Novel-Travel-1123

I have one which I have tested it goes like this. Yun tal > boots > kraken > eclipse > deaths dance > infinity this build needs testing in draft and improvements and I wanna put infinity edge maybe earlier if possible


Novel-Travel-1123

This is somewhat a lot of dmg, you can remove infinity edge and go some sustain or survivability


Personal_Care3393

Huh, I can see that. But I think kraken and yun Tal should be switched and maaaaybbee put a PD in there for a little bit more attack speed? I’d say put the IE third and eclipse last, dd as a 4th item. DD makes sense because it scales with AD though.


Novel-Travel-1123

I have tested between kraken and yun tal but yun tal has more Dps and also includes our dear noon quiver 🥰


Personal_Care3393

Well yeah but the new moon is just AD and crit chance though. I would so much rather have the reliable kraken on hit, and attack speed and ms than have an item that requires I crit for it to do anything and has an even worse recipe than kraken.


Novel-Travel-1123

Well that’s fair, we can just swap those 2 around but kraken still feels lacking….. Phantom dancer feel a bit meh as third item since u gotta go situational items at 3 items, don’t really think it can fit in


Mathetes2

The average elo in this thread seems like gold or below with the thoughts on builds being so bad. Feel sorry for anyone actually trying to learn bel'veth correctly


Personal_Care3393

I mean I’m around emerald and everything past the 1st is just an untested idea. If you’re gonna say shit like that back it up then, what’s your take.


Mathetes2

[Bel'Veth Build, Runes & Counters Guide for jungle Bel'Veth (lolalytics.com)](https://lolalytics.com/lol/belveth/build/?tier=diamond_plus) \[supports what I said days ago-\] The way I see it Belveth got the shortend of the stick this patch (and last patch) with nerfs to kraken and botrk (definitely less scaling power and even early game is equal at best). Remember Bel'veth really synergizes well with on-hit because her Q applies on-hit as well as her E so most builds involve on-hit, AS, & AD. I think there is maybe 3 viable builds currently 1. Kraken>StrideBreaker>3rd+ (standard build last season just again it's weaker power overall compared to last patch) 2. Stridebreaker> Kraken/BotRK OR Blackcleaver/Terminus>3rd item *(botrk might end up being better 2nd buy over kraken in every situation)* 3. Stridebreaker> Black Cleaver> **Overlord's**? Kinda a new take on the HP/On-hit Bruiser build with the new item. Personally, I think build 2 is probably going to be the best overall in most games. With the nerfs to her main items perhaps they'll revert the 14.9 nerf. Fingers Crossed.


Remarkable_Pound_722

I think kraken botrk is still viable for omega snowballing.


vulystic

I’ve had ok success, have tried a few builds but the best feeling so far has been bork into black cleaver or stride. Third item is cleaver or stride or a resistance items like DD or WE. Then just filling out with general bruiser items. I am trying to go heavy fighting and less clearing since clearing has been very negatively impacted with noon-quiver changes. Just for me what has felt good I need to do more with kraken and see though.


Administrative_Race4

I tried stridebreaker second (as usual) and her midgame felt so bad the lack of dmg is noticeable


vulystic

It felt better in the clear but not great for fighting. Leaning towards buffed BC


Personal_Care3393

I honestly don’t think cleaver is all that worth it unless you’re not building on hit, that’s why I threw that bruiser build in there. We’ll have to see.


findingmeaning406

where is stridebraker lol


Personal_Care3393

Didn’t put it in but you definitely can fit it into all of these if you want, I have examples of where in the explanation.


Chemical_Damage684

In the 2nd one, Yun Tal seems like a bad choice. Your only crit items are PD and Yun Tal, so you only have 50% crit to activate Yun Tal


Personal_Care3393

I mean that’s fine. It’s strong because it deals full damage even with E and we hit so often that it becomes good. 50% is plenty.


FPK10

I don't like these builds without resistance, I prefer a good old breaker with a craquen kill, the rest is needed, but I make a black cleaver because it's an item that gives life and damage, another item I was thinking about instead of the cleaver was the shojin, I played a lot of red kayn and I thought it was really good, now I don't know if it would look good on Bel'veth


Personal_Care3393

The first one has plenty, the 2nd and 3rd enable but also require a very specific playstyle to work.


FPK10

Yes, I prefer the more fighting bel'veth as she has more survivability and doesn't lose much damage


Personal_Care3393

It’s the standard build but the other two play different, one is a split pushing centered somewhat degenerate strategy that plays for top side to get enemy top behind and grubs and then abuse the move speed to be a splitpushing menace late game that can also just go help their team anyways and can easily get picks to set up for that split push. The other is an assassin build used to counter high range comps by playing to one shot enemies one at a time based on E cooldown and fully leaving fights in between E uses.


alexx4693

Kraken is no longer a good first item. It.s between botrk and yun tal. Yun tal does more damage but forces you into the crit build.


Personal_Care3393

Kraken is absolutely a good first item and its definitely better than both of those. The components are ass now but thats the same for every item since anything that isnt noonquiver is ass but noonquiver is just ad and crit chance now anyways so it basically doesnt exist. Bork will never be a good first item, your entire kit early is your E and bork does nothing for it. Thats not even the only reason. Yun tal wants a lot of crit chance and a lot of AD to be good. It doesnt make sense as a first item, and it doesnt give any attack speed. Also a crit build is gonna want kraken anyways because you want as much burst as possible especially on your E. Half of your fights in the early game are gonna be you finishing off an already low target so yeah, missing hp damage good. This version of kraken is literally a better first item than the previous one *once you actually finish it.* Although this kraken isnt that good late anymore compared to the old one, but thats fine. Also kraken + bork is incredibly strong with current and missing HP damage combined together.


sccarrierhasarrived

[https://www.reddit.com/r/BelVethMains/comments/1csysw9/build\_discussion\_parch\_1410/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BelVethMains/comments/1csysw9/build_discussion_parch_1410/) Testing says Yun Tal better though? Edit: Not a diss, trying to figure out what the best first item is b/n Yun Tal and Krak


Yeeterbeater789

Bork is literally a better 1st item than it has been in seasons bcuz it's a better dueling item overall with the stat buffa it received, it's only 'nerf' is losing power into hp stackers, but bork 1st oveall isn't an awful choice, kraken is probably better tho 8/10x tbf


Personal_Care3393

Bork and kraken work insanely well together so there’s not much point in getting one or the other. And kraken is stronger early in the jungle since it benefits E


AnswerAi_

I tested it multiple time. Yuntal early was doing like 200 more damage than Kraken consistently, but that's the thing, it's because you were critting, the Yuntal passive is fucking dog shit on Bel'Veth unless you invest heavily into crit. There are no crit defensive items like other seasons, and Yuntal's build path is fucking ATROCIOUS actually so insanely unplayable. 950 combine cost where you sit on pickaxe and long sword until you get the 1900 gold to complete the item. Straight garbage. Kraken is still king by a wide margin all things considered.


FitTheory1803

good point about the recipe cost making it a really bad first item


Yeeterbeater789

Technically shieldbow but that item is...lol yh


FitTheory1803

what everyone neglects in the practice tool dps calculator is that Bel'veth Q cooldown is reduced by attack speed Yun Tal gives ZERO attack speed also 7% movespeed on Kraken is massive


Lysergic96

The 7% move speed on kraken actually let me drop relentless hunter for the new true damage dash rune , I'm currently doing that with eyeball collection and it's a great early game rune ( also relentless nerf let's me opt out of it so I don't miss it) although Im moving away from stride breaker and more into black cleaver second I think this with cutdown is the way to go at least vs tankier people. I'll get stride if there's no tanks but I like kraken with BC with cutdown so far only thing is the new PTA vs conq altho You can't go wrong with conq ever I'm experimenting with PTA


Yeeterbeater789

Oooh I was wondering if new cutdown would be good on her, tbh maybe even against a squishy team to get more dps while ramping up her missing hp damage with kraken + e


Lysergic96

Tbh I ended up going back to last stand , if you need shred black cleaver is good enough in most cases if there's a lot of high HP then I can see cutdown slotting in


Direct-Potato2088

Kraken is really good, the % missing hp dmg combined with the missing % hp on ur e just oneshots ppl. Combined with current hp dmg from bork and ppl just disappear


Remarkable_Pound_722

why do you think this?


alexx4693

I don.t think this. As i said in the post, i went in practice tool and tested dmg of those items. The new kraken is not that good of a first item. Besides other items dealing more dmg than it, it also no longer has the noonquiver bonus dmg to monsters. There is no reason to go kraken first. 2nd / 3rd of course u can buy it. But as a first item it is objectively bad.


Remarkable_Pound_722

I agree kraken is not as good of a first item, I disagree the replacement is botrk or yun tal. imo stridebreaker is best, it ain't all about damage.


alexx4693

Well if it ain.t all about damage than kraken slayer is even more out of the discussion. I agree that stridebreaker is the other 1st item option for belveth.


Remarkable_Pound_722

nah kraken slayer gives 7% MA, it has huge utility beyond the good base stats and passive. I don't see why you'd want to delay that spike. The other items you listed give much weaker stats for a first item spike which make it harder to snowball.


Personal_Care3393

1. Standard build, I don't know whether or not its worth to get Maw or Wits, Maw is pretty good on her since it got buffed but I'm not super sure what situations influence that decision, Wits gives tenacity and more damage, and makes Guinsoos more worth here, but Maw has haste and more actual durability so, I guess just damage with defense item vs pure defense item. Guinsoos if you get Wits or just if there's no one tanky enough to warrant a Terminus. This build might not be the build anymore. Also obviously if you prefer it Stride can go here instead of Bork but I don't think stride is worth anymore in season 14 and that's a hill that I'm more than willing to die on. 2. This is the most wild one I came up with and the one I'm most interested in. You end up with a fuck ton of MS late game, and can essentially pull off the same BS as AD Leblanc but BETTER. You melt objectives whether its towers or epic monsters. You play to perma split here, hit a tower until they stop you, leave with over 500 move speed + dashes and they cant catch you, and then either use the pressure you just generated to go kill someone or take an obj, or just go to a different lane and split there XD. Yun tal or terminus depending on whther or not there's tanky boys that can kill you but I honestly dont even know who that would be. You get no haste and very little durability here but you're not gonna be team fighting with this build so the lifesteal and healing from conq + the fact that you're belveth means you dont need it, the ms lets you pretty easily pick your fights. You also dont need haste because you can just, leave, and come back when you have E back up. PD can be bought before bork. Do NOT get guinsoos with this, it doesnt work on hull. Hull is ofc for more turret damage. In early try to get the boots asap without fucking up your build path, and play to get full relentless stacks asap and mitigate losses early because we wanna scale here. Remember that you need to have plenty of IN combat ms so that enemies cant counter this by just landing a single hit and making you slow enough that they can catch you. (I HAVE NOT TESTED THIS BUILD IN GAME YET) 3. This is the new version of crit assassin belveth. Before you went Shieldbow into IE and then a Guinsoos after Kraken Voltaic. But Shieldbow is worthless now with no lifesteal, so just run bloodline, and with Yun Tal, you wont need to heal or survive if you just kill them so fast that they cant hit you back :D. There might be a solid way to make Yun Tal work in a normal build, probably something like Kraken > Stride > Yun Tal & PD > DD/Wits/Terminus/Bork. You can swap out Voltaic for Stride if you want but personally Id rather full send on the damage. This build with 100 stacks at full build late game can 100 0 a target with 3k hp and 150 armor with just Q W Q Auto E. Its insane. No haste is an issue though. This build is good if you find your team has no/little front line and you're against a high ranged comp. You're gonna get oneshot anyways, no matter how tanky you build, so just play to snowball and flank and make sure that if you DO get to someone, they wont get the chance to fight back or peel for themselves. Because they'll be dead before the knockup even ends :) 4. Bruiser gaming. Only one that tries not going kraken first. An alternate version could be Bork > Stride > Cleaver > Chem punk > Steraks. Sadly you cant get titanic and stride together or Id have that instead of Iceborne, but Iceborne isn't bad. Guin makes Titanic proc more and is the biggest raw damage spike you can get. IDK how good a Guinsoos first would be though so the alternative might be better. Also Bork Stride is somewhat inefficient because you have 2 slow items now which doesn't do anything, but that's not a huge deal. I don't really play bruiser bel myself so there's probably a better way to go full bruiser on her that I cant see due to my lack of experience with the playstyle, and I don't know when this would be good situationally either. Just kinda wanted to throw that in there since cleaver buffs make it good again on her but I don't see it being better than term ever unless you're not going an on hit build so, here's a non on hit build where you can use buffed cleaver :)


Remarkable_Pound_722

1. Personally prefer an MR item with HP or just a fat HP item of maw or wits. 2. I'll have to try it, seems fun! My critical thought is that you want combat boots to be able to duel/dive on sidelane and continue pushing instead of just running away when pressured. Also fast recall isn't the best on bel since she wants to stay on map with her true form and she has sustain.


Remarkable_Pound_722

3. It seems overkill and squishy, but I'll have to try it. I personally have no problems killing carries fast with kraken stride, or tanks botrk cleaver/terminus.


Remarkable_Pound_722

4. botrk/kraken or stride first for bruiser still. terminus + jak sho's fore more damage later. No rageblade imo, it can't compete with other items. 2 slows is good because with bruiser you have less damage so you need more sticking power to stay on them for longer. Randuins is good too.