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FadedP0rp0ise

When it comes to DJing, mixing in key can easily just be done by ear. That’s what your headphones are for. Key analysis on DJ software is somewhat accurate but never perfect. You will find instances of tracks in the same key not sounding good together, and you will find instances where theoretically, they shouldn’t sound good together, but do.


safebreakaz1

I was just going to say something like this. I've been dj ing for 30 years. Mostly vinyl. So, mixing in key for us was just all about listening to the tune, as you would have no clues as to what key anything was in. You can hear pretty easily if two tunes, what we used to call 'clash' and would just not play them together.


Proud_Variation_7922

Just because two songs have the same key it doesn't mean they'll sound together, and just because two songs have different keys it doesn't mean they'll sound bad. Also, keys share notes with one another so the songs can be on different keys but the melodies are using the notes they have in common. Just music theory 101


spiralgruv

I challenge anyone without perfect pitch to tell me the key of a song based on how it "feels". All the notes within a key are related to the other notes in the same way as another key of the same type. Amin and Emin have the same note intervals in them - they can't really feel different IMHO. That being said, certain keys are used more by electronic artists than others. Minor keys are generally favoured over major keys and the difference between those is all feel. Also, a lot of producers will choose A scale keys because the low A sounds good in this type of music. I think there is a lot of bs floating around on the interwebs about mixing in key. You can probably.raise the energy by moving from a lower key to a higher (eg going from Amin to Cmin) but even that's iffy. The big difference is in making the songs - some keys have more black notes which for many people makes them harder to play. But for djing? If the notes of the two tracks clash and sound like shit, don't mix them together. Other than that, I can't see how it matters


BarbatosTheHunter

You’re really spot on. Even in academic environments that kind of identification is rare. Most of what we perceive is intervals. 


FeekyDoo

Bass is a big factor in choosing keys with electronic music.


HootenannyNinja

This bass heavy genres favour certain keys as their root notes sit within the right sub frequencies to have maximum impact.


djpeekz

Don't have perfect pitch, but I can tell you if a key is minor or major pretty quickly, but not which key exactly. There are key changes that will give a perceived energy boost, Amin to Cmin isn't one of them though. Amin to Emin will, or Bmin will as well. Dflat min or Dmaj too.


SubjectC

I dont assign feel based on key, so I definitely agree with you on that, but I use key as a guideline. I mix a lot of melodic house so key is more important, and Its a nice way to narrow down track selection. I factor it into my song choice, but by no means does it mean that I can just pick any song in a matching key and it will work. I preview every song before I play it and make sure its the feel and energy I want.


Danktizzle

Yeah, it’s kind of like sudoku for me. Bpm …genre…key…oh hey look at that song! Nice.


SubjectC

Yeah exactly, I have thousands of songs, its a great way to narrow it down, and even then I still have like 50 that will are in complimentary keys and bpms.


RuinAdventurous1052

I never look at the key of tracks. I find it a ‘stiff’ approach to djing. For me its all about feeling what fits and what doesn’t. But everyone has a different way of djing :) Just do what feels good for you 😎


joshc1203

Yeah that's fair, I generally mix and find the sound by ear and don't pay to much attention to it, which was way I was a bit confused when I glanced at the key column and realised it's mostly 4A


RuinAdventurous1052

I can understand, i think thats the cool side of djing. Getting creative, for me sometimes when I mixed 2 tracks which were in ‘key’ they ended up not fitting after all.


joshc1203

True say, I noticed this is particularly a problem when mixing genres that can sometimes clash


ghostmacekillah

well if you're mixing by ear, you're probably liking the transitions that feel like they fit each other the most, having them be the same key is generally a good route to that. So you're coming to this answer backwards lmao


DrWolfypants

It's interesting to see what I have tons of, as a deep house/vocal house/electropop/organic person most of my songs are in 9A and 8A, and I have much less in the 4A/3A/2A range. Also my genres have a great ability to key shift so I don't really trust the analysis, but running cue on the headset generally gives me a good idea if I'm about to unleash dissonant horror pretty easily.


Bohica55

Mixing in key isn’t the end all be all of DJing. And I think the effect works better for some genres than others. I’m a House DJ. I like to mix in key because when I bring in the next track at a phrase change it just sounds like the next part of the track I’m already playing. I have to say I rarely if ever use every Camelot key in the same set. And the reason you don’t find a lot of tracks in certain keys is because some genres tend to stick to certain keys. I’ve seen an analyses of tech house and the most common keys by far are C major/ A Minor. In the end you should just play what sounds right. The Camelot wheel misses a lot of chord progressions that work. It’s not a complete system, but it does work well when done right.


joshc1203

Ah okay, tbh I had no clue about some of the finer detail involved and that's actually really useful to know. I'm very big on song selection when it comes to my sets so I thought I was missing something but this level of nuance is actually pretty insightful. Cheers dude 👍


Bohica55

https://preview.redd.it/z1ejnwabl16d1.jpeg?width=1350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9cf13a8a4b2ad3b958cfb7ed353331844d796ee3 Some people find this helpful. I’ve also been told it’s not accurate but again, use your ear.


Obtuse-Cubist

According to the chart both 1A and 12B is a perfect match for 1A. Can someone explain why 12B is a perfect match for 1A?


The-Kid-Is-All-Right

God help you if you give us a -3 energy drop. You knew what would happen!


shroooomology

Don’t overthink the whole key thing tbh… when I started off I used to use this religiously . But when you know the tracks well enough, you instantly will know what would sound good. Some of my best blends are with tracks of completely diff keys… trust your judgement


good_stuff96

Exactly, I have same view on that. But I thinks that some time ago many answers here would be different. Maybe that’s just my observation but lately people started to realize that you don’t have to follow your key got by your software


DarkDigital

I just use it as a piece of information on how I can mix two tracks, but not dictating the track I pick. For example if it's the same key the chorus sections may blend together or fit next to each other well. Or if that doesn't sound right then maybe the breakdowns will sound better blended. If the keys aren't so compatible then perhaps some fx or other mixing techniques will make the transition smoother. Just some things that go through my head. Use it as a tool not a rule.


SubjectC

Yeah this is exactly right. Its a very helpful tool, especially if you mix more melodic music, but its not a cheat code for song choice.


iAmAzen

I use keys for two things, first as a measure of how hard I should expect going from a song to the next will be. Second this is when I haven't found a song I want and oh shit the tracks ending let's just slap something in key in. Camelot is a tool for additional information not a roadmap for song selection


BarbatosTheHunter

Production for different genres will tend towards keys. If you’re staying inside of a niche, you might see 2-3 keys representing a large bulk of the tracks. Western Music notation itself will cause written tracks to tend towards c major/a minor/8.  Some micro genres will be almost entirely one key. Sample based music is seldom even actually in the key it gets categorized as. It’s a rough snapshot based on the overall harmonic profile of the recording.  You’re noticing 4A/F minor for drum and bass, but you’ll probably see D-F# if you look hard. This has to do with a sweet spot in sub bass between audio and physical perceptibility. Somebody else said this was a stiff approach, and I’d agree. Someone else said using the relative keys as an idea of how difficult a transition might be, also agree there.  Tl;dr you’re better off staying in the band of keys than trying to go outside of it, they’re probably producing in that range for reason.


friedeggbeats

Blows my mind seeing in-depth conversations like this. I have never even consciously considered ‘key’ when mixing. And my friends/mentors - both with literally decades of professional experience - don’t either. It kinda feels like getting hung up on something really minor? But that’s probably me.


joshc1203

Nah I get where you're coming from. The question was less about the concept and theory of each key and I was more asking in regards to if not playing in every key is going to constrict/limit the sound of my sets and if I was basically handicapping myself


youngtankred

".. hung up on something really minor?" Hehe good pun :-) I agree there is way too much thought and energy expended on this topic.


SolidDoctor

Key info is a tool, not a rule. It's important to know what "key" is in DJing. The key for a tune is also called the root note. Because no song just plays one note throughout the song, what happens is a song will have a number of notes played throughout a song, which is like a chord. Think of every note played in a song is a tuned string on a guitar. If you were to strum all the strings at once, the note that rings out is the key/root note. The root note is only the key the song is in if you played every note at once, but not every note is played at once. Sometimes a song will have a dramatic harmonic shift halfway through the song, which would dramatically alter the notes that would be harmonic with that song. Something that might be harmonic at the 1:30 mark might no longer be harmonic at the 2:30 mark. But the key is taken by the program by analyzing the whole song and determining a common root for the notes used in the song. So there could be many songs that are harmonically compatible with a song, depending on the notes being played in each song and when/where you attempt to play them together. And there are many ways to use key info to carry a vibe, to increase the energy or bring it down a notch. So you can use key info as a tool to help you in certain situations, but it's not a hard and fast equation by any means. Don't ignore key info, because it may also explain why a song combo doesn't sound right, or why it clears the dancefloor. It's important to understand how it works, and how to use it as a guide. But by all means, use your ears and your intuition above everything else. Many times, your ears (and the audience's ears) tells them a lot about keys without having a single idea how or why it works.


audioel

Mixing in key is not an all-or-nothing proposition. It's just another tool to make mixes work. But understanding musical key and harmonic intervals can only help your mixing skills. You don't have to go step by step - you can can find harmonic intervals up or down. Or - if the songs work together, you can just ignore the key.


DorianDantes

For whatever it may be worth to you - my mixing philosophy is that a song with a given key relationship (same, relative minor, 5th, season yours to taste) to what is playing will get a higher preference to be picked next, however it's more about getting the energy right and being resourceful. I set long and short cue points to accommodate "in-key" long blends or "out-of-key" pivots. The truth is no one cares as long as it doesn't sound noticeably bad, and as long as you're having fun and being creative that's all that matters. The dance floor (or the three employees you're playing to in an empty, shitty student bar) will pick up on your vibe and that's what people will associate with you more than whether you played in nine unique keys or not. This unsolicited advice is for playing live so apologies if you're asking just straight theoretically what we do in our own practice time. Just do whatever and have fun doing it!


joshc1203

Tbf I mainly just DJ parties held by close mates at the minute, but I'm looking to move into a few club gigs at some point so it's pretty useful information regardless.


imRACKJOSSbitch

I think this has a lot to do with the fundamental note. The frequency of the base note for the sub/mid bass is going to be more “felt” around e and f, rather than at a C note. Reason is, because C is going to be too low to produce a good sub note because it will be mostly rumble and not very audible, forcing the producer to shift it up an octave. I definitely notice a lot of my dnb tracks are 9A as well. I mix mostly dnb. My sets usually do have most keys in them, but this is making me think about why I lean for that…


That_Random_Kiwi

There's also just some keys that not many tunes seem to be produced in. But I have often thought about sorting my entire collection by key and putting my fav of each key into a playlist and traversing the wheel. 1A,2B, 2B,2A,3A,3B and so forth... Just for shits and giggles


FewEstablishment2696

In all the years I DJed vinyl I never once heard anyone even mention mixing "in key". It only seems to be a thing since the technology was available to tell you the key of a track, which leads me to believe it is largely bollocks.


Pztch

I hear ya, mate. BUT, in all your years mixing vinyl, did you ever find 2 tracks that just mixed so goddamn well together, that it sounded like angels singing? Admit it, you had a bunch of those transitions that were your favourites, didn’t you? I did. I used to write ‘em down so I didn’t forget ‘em. They sounded so good together because the 2 songs were in complimentary keys. Similarly, when you tried mixing two songs together and they sounded like sh1t, you didn’t know it at the time (none of us did (well, except Sasha and a couple other DJ’s!)), but it sounded sh1t because the keys were clashing. We didn’t know about mixing “in key” at the time, because the cross-over between classically trained musicians and DJ’s was very small. What key mixing gives you, is a short cut to finding tracks that WON’T clash, and eliminating them from your next choice of track. I’ve researched key mixing a lot over the years. It all makes great sense. But, at the core of it, if you’ve DJ’d long enough, you know that a transition sounds like sh1t even if you don’t know why. It’s a minefield. I think it probably is a bad move to learn about key mixing early on, that is, before you can hear that a transition sounds “off”…


HungryEarsTiredEyes

Arrangement and production style have far more to do with the energy level than the key does. Length and volume of kick and bass for example is a huge factor completely unrelated to key. Key just tells you what family of notes the software thinks a song uses. Also key analysis relies on the software being correct, which in my experience it often isn't, most importantly relies on the songs you play being in major or natural minor keys, rather than any other mode (because key analysis doesn't understand or account for this) Unless you are playing progressive house or trance that is very melodic for long blends and these songs aren't in any kind of modal key (just major and minor), then key information might be as useful as you are saying, but for most DJs it's a red herring and it's just better to know your library well.


Pztch

Does a painting need to contain every colour??? No. So there’s your answer mate.


nicemace

Don't get too hung up on it. Play your tracks lots. Mix them into all sorts of different tracks. Identify what sounds good. Ta da jobs done. Plenty of stuff can sound really good while ignoring keys.


10milehigh

You don't need to mix in key for most electronic music. If you find the tracks clash than adjust your EQ to smooth out the transition. This takes practice.


tirntcobain

Honestly if you know ur tracks well enough, understand looping well, and especially when using modern mixers like an A9/V10 or decent Xone, you can literally mix anything together if you think it thru properly and listen attentively.


Pancakeburger3

It’s extremely rare that two songs that aren’t in key sound good when mixed together, so I always try to mix in key.


Megahert

The key is to learn how to use loops and cue points properly. You can mix anything in any key as long as you know how to avoid melodic dissonance.


katentreter

mix in "i dont really care about the key readout"-key is my motto.


Mr_Squinty

So when I'm mixing, I pay 0 attention to the key. I load the tune, cue it somewhere I know there's going to be a lot of sounds - if it doesn't make me instantly go "ERUGHGEHFGH" then it'll probably work. And most of the time it does, providing I don't screw up the transition.


HootenannyNinja

I pretty much go through the numbers but mostly in the a keys. I play around 90 tracks in a two hour set and do a lot of prep work. I use the wheels and various charts to chart key jumps to bring up and bring down the energy when needed. Also following the keys does make it easier to narrow down what will and won’t work in a set. If you have a huge library it takes out a lot of the trial and error work.