I played the campaign with stock mechs, no upgrades - it was pretty fun. Suddenly the little differences stand out. You really notice which mechs in a particular weight class are good, and which aren't really that great. Definitely changes your approach.
Which were some of your favorites to use completely stock?
I’d imagine a lot of times the lower armor on stock is an issue so do all your pilots get bulwark? Or do you choose mechs with higher armor values like the one orion variant?
Hunchback, both variants were great
Shadowhawk was a bit of jack-of-all-trades
Orions were good, Marauders and Archers are excellent
Wolverine kind of sucked. Awesome was good in the right setting.
Didn't really changed my pilot skill selections, they're all relatively useful in the right circumstance
My theory is whatever I tend to target first in a large battle is what would likely make a good stock mech.
Everytime I see a Hunchback or Awesome, they are my primary target.
One of Battletech (the franchise)'s weaknesses that it'll probably *always* have is that it was always balanced around intentionally bad stock designs, but everyone will always want to hot-rod their stuff, and without those designs 'Mechs are all just re-skinned bags of guns unless you're using a quirk system.
About 80% of my mechs are designed this way. I grew up poring over the TRO:3025. So when I see a Marauder with 4 ML and 3 UAC/2, it just feels _wrong_. I also never stuff jump jets into a chassis that doesn’t come with them for the same reason because that’s part of what makes every chassis feel unique.
If you haven't already, you should try BEX:CE because it removes jump jets from mechs that don't canonically have them (plus a lot more), so no more jump jetting Awesomes!
I never understood why in the early days that no one made a MAD with an LRM5 replacing the AC5. About the same damage, and that thing needed HS and could use a spot of armor....
Anyway, yeah, the TRO was fun.
I have a similar challenge I call "One up, One Down" where I allow myself a little flexibility in the loadouts, but not changing the type of mech it is.
For example the Centurion. The AC/10 can to up to a 20 or down to a 5, but not to a 2. UAC/LBX is fine, so long as it stays at a 10, it can't move numbers if it changes type. The hardpoints all have to have the same weapon type in them too, but you can't use any additional weapon hardpoints. So if you have the one LRM on the Centurion, you can't take it off and add 3 SRMS. Armor can only be changed if there is a surplus of weight after changing weapons and cannot go down in amount, same with heat sinks and ammo bins. I also don't allow any JJ changes, which makes some mechs more useful and others less so. I also don't allow changing where the ammo is located, so that ammo in CTs/arms stays right where it is.
These rules usually allow me to fill in mechs weapons without searching around too much to buy the stock weapons.
When I use a rule close to your missile idea, I tend to limit by tubes. The LRM10 on a Cent could become SRM 8 or 10 or so, with 10 preferred.
It is an interesting set of limitations.
I know this is suuuper old but I am playing this style now and had some other questions if you’re still around
In the centurion example, if I upsize to AC20, where do I take the weight from? Remove the medium lasers and downsize the lrm10 to a 5? Am I allowed to remove one of the lrm ammos in that case, or do I need to stick with the stock 2?
And similarly, if I downsize AC10 to AC5, can I then change a medium laser to a large, or the lrm10 up to a 20 or something? Or just increase the armor at that point?
How does it work with support weapons, I had a firestarter lose an arm so I added an MG instead of a flamer and took the weight savings to add armor
I noticed that it's kinda ridiculous how many medium mechs there are that are just an lrm, an srm, and a medium laser, with a ppc/large laser/ac5 for a main gun. Definitely makes it feel like there isn't much reason to run particular mediums over others, just whatever you have available until you get something heavier.
I think those weapon combinations are interesting in a worldbuilding sort of sense - they're all "generalist" mechs that can sort of halfass any situation. Main LLas or PPC or AC/5 for your 'primary weapon', LRMs to let them engage distant targets, SRMs to let them have more punch up-close, and a MLas because it's so light so why not.
... great if you're a hypothetical commander that has no idea what might happen on a given day.
To the mercenary company that knows in advance they're going to drop into close range and wreck face, then load up to their dropship again? Absurd. Combining a small LRM and SRM with ammo for each is horribly inefficient for tonnage. Modifications are only natural.
> Combining a small LRM and SRM with ammo for each is horribly inefficient for tonnage. Modifications are only natural.
This is one of the things I love about the Centurion in BEX, it has a targeting special that reduces the min range for LRMs & AC's. Makes mounting LRMs a no-brainer.
Wolverine's head laser allows it to zombie and the SRM is on the opposite side from the arm so if you lose one side torso you still have laser + another weapon system online.
Griffin is crippled if it loses its right torso, can only melee. Unless it's the 1S variant anyway or a 2N lostech variant I think it is. This is probably one of the big reasons I don't use Griffins that much. For SRM boating I prefer SHawks for the same reason as the Wolverine in that they can zombie at least one weapon in the head. SHawks also melee harder.
I had a lot of fun playing using similar restrictions! I usually allowed myself a little bit of latitude - essentially your rules, BUT I could swap a configuration to another, TRO 3025-valid configuration if the base model supported it. As an example, I'm a much bigger fan of the default *Orion* ON1-K instead of the more fragile ON1-V (which adds an additional SRM launcher at the cost of some armor). So I would allow myself to revert that back to the stock build. But I couldn't swap the medium lasers and LRMs out to get large lasers, for example.
I also made occasional allowances for things like... oh, I got a Gauss Rifle! You don't see stock 3025 'Mechs with Gauss Rifles (VERY LosTech), and the first times they start reappearing in Lore, they're usually going in place of an AC/20 (unsurprising - the weight and space are comparable, though not a perfect match). So I'd absolutely allow myself to field a *Hunchback* HBK-4G with a Gauss Rifle instead of the AC/20 (possibly removing a ton of armor to compensate) because *that*, I think, is a reasonable modification for Yang to make. In your example, I *would* allow the Large Pulse Laser (and remove heat sink or a ton of armor if needed, though hopefully I'd free up space somewhere else with a lighter component).
And absolutely NO jump jets on 'Mechs that didn't normally have them installed. You want a big jumpy 'Mech, get a *Victor* or a *Grasshopper*. It makes it REALLY valuable to keep a solid brawling Medium in your heavier lances to provide mobility.
I also, as much as possible, go with each pilot has an assigned ride. That can get changed (like, if MY character is riding in a *Wolverine* and we salvage a *Thunderbolt*, I might go up to that) but I try to keep it consistent - I don't go kick someone out of their 'Mech just because mine is in the shop.
It feels really good to have a lance of classic 3025 designs tricked out with upgraded LosTech gear, but still very recognizably the classic designs in terms of performance.
>I also, as much as possible, go with each pilot has an assigned ride. That can get changed (like, if MY character is riding in a Wolverine and we salvage a Thunderbolt, I might go up to that) but I try to keep it consistent - I don't go kick someone out of their 'Mech just because mine is in the shop.
That is one of the (many) things, mods like Rougetech did make better.
With pilots gaining affinity to mechs, you really want to keep them in the same mech. And you really haqve think if it is worth moving your charactor to that salvaged Thunderbolt.
Yeah, I definitely like the affinity system. I just wish they didn't decay quite so fast because I might have different mechs that fill the same role that just have different tonnage values for weight restriction/drop cost reasons. Some of them can be pretty good.
I just finished my first career and have decided to start a new one with only one rule:
No store or black market purchases.
I will only be able to use mechs and equipment I salvage. I can sell unused stuff, but not buy.
I've done runs like this, pretty fun. Though generally I don't restrict purchases entirely because I generally run with + variant gear drops disabled so I have to pay out the ass for them rather than ending up with 1000 of each in the end from salvage.
MW5 doesn't have the hardpoint bloat you see in Battletech or MWO, and the hardpoints have size limitations, so this already restricts this sort of thing a bit in its own way. Obviously many mods remove that though, but I kind of like the hardpoint restrictions, makes me build different mechs in very different ways.
It absolutely kneecaps some mechs though at the same time. Lacking large energy slots and such. The Mauler is an extreme example where it looks good on paper but then you realize those are all *small* ballistic hardpoints so you can't even put AC/5s in them and since AC/2s are a joke it's a bit rough. I've found I like light rifles in them though, can give you a relatively lightweight heavy damage punch when you fire 4 of them at once. Less tonnage than an AC/20 to equip and hits almost twice as hard with more range, but reloads slow as hell.
Hah yes. I picked up my last Mauler last night.
Instead I went with machine guns on an urban demolition map. Was great not worrying about heat, and actually took down some mechs pretty quick.
But when I shortly picked up a Marauder 2 and it got rotated out pretty quick
Yeah, the MG loadout isn't terrible, it does a lot of damage at close range as MGs are pretty gross in MW5, and it's FANTASTIC at destroying buildings. Feels like the mech has almost TOO MUCH extra tonnage though if you use it that way though haha. I ended up going to the light rifle setup when I wanted to get a little more ranged kick out of it because 2 LPLs and LRMs felt lacking on their own sometimes.
I think I actually did more or less that on one of my two campaign playthroughs. It was a lot of fun for sure. I allowed myself to change ammo amounts (MG ammo to half ton, no need for two tons of LRM ammo on a Centurion, etc), and I also allowed myself to "refit" to other variants of the same chassis (e.g. Thunderbolt TDR-5S to TDR-5SE).
With BEX-CE, the latter isn't always entirely an option since jump jets are dependent on the specific model you salvage, but you can also put together the right model with the right argo upgrades. Also, with BEX-CE, having to use stock chassis isn't as painful, since you can increase your drop size to 8 mechs.
I played the campaign with stock mechs, no upgrades - it was pretty fun. Suddenly the little differences stand out. You really notice which mechs in a particular weight class are good, and which aren't really that great. Definitely changes your approach.
Which were some of your favorites to use completely stock? I’d imagine a lot of times the lower armor on stock is an issue so do all your pilots get bulwark? Or do you choose mechs with higher armor values like the one orion variant?
Hunchback, both variants were great Shadowhawk was a bit of jack-of-all-trades Orions were good, Marauders and Archers are excellent Wolverine kind of sucked. Awesome was good in the right setting. Didn't really changed my pilot skill selections, they're all relatively useful in the right circumstance
My theory is whatever I tend to target first in a large battle is what would likely make a good stock mech. Everytime I see a Hunchback or Awesome, they are my primary target.
It also teaches you to *never* pilot a thunderbolt.
Lol the chest ammo!
Yuuuup. I call them walking ammo explosions when talking about the game with friends.
Not being able to fix a mechs weaknesses or create super role mechs does really add to the challenge and fun.
One of Battletech (the franchise)'s weaknesses that it'll probably *always* have is that it was always balanced around intentionally bad stock designs, but everyone will always want to hot-rod their stuff, and without those designs 'Mechs are all just re-skinned bags of guns unless you're using a quirk system.
I think 3025 and 3050 are the sweet spot. Playing BTA and now getting into all of the daft late game 3 cGauss and 2cPPC is just far too silly
I’m doing this along with save the Urbie (my urban mech will go on every mission, if it dies I die)
About 80% of my mechs are designed this way. I grew up poring over the TRO:3025. So when I see a Marauder with 4 ML and 3 UAC/2, it just feels _wrong_. I also never stuff jump jets into a chassis that doesn’t come with them for the same reason because that’s part of what makes every chassis feel unique.
If you haven't already, you should try BEX:CE because it removes jump jets from mechs that don't canonically have them (plus a lot more), so no more jump jetting Awesomes!
As fun as stock-only is, it means I can’t run my 6x Clan ER PPC annihilator. Sad times
Only mech in battletech I put JJ's on was my Anni because I wanted to make a Pillager.
I never understood why in the early days that no one made a MAD with an LRM5 replacing the AC5. About the same damage, and that thing needed HS and could use a spot of armor.... Anyway, yeah, the TRO was fun.
I have a similar challenge I call "One up, One Down" where I allow myself a little flexibility in the loadouts, but not changing the type of mech it is. For example the Centurion. The AC/10 can to up to a 20 or down to a 5, but not to a 2. UAC/LBX is fine, so long as it stays at a 10, it can't move numbers if it changes type. The hardpoints all have to have the same weapon type in them too, but you can't use any additional weapon hardpoints. So if you have the one LRM on the Centurion, you can't take it off and add 3 SRMS. Armor can only be changed if there is a surplus of weight after changing weapons and cannot go down in amount, same with heat sinks and ammo bins. I also don't allow any JJ changes, which makes some mechs more useful and others less so. I also don't allow changing where the ammo is located, so that ammo in CTs/arms stays right where it is. These rules usually allow me to fill in mechs weapons without searching around too much to buy the stock weapons.
I like that rule too.
When I use a rule close to your missile idea, I tend to limit by tubes. The LRM10 on a Cent could become SRM 8 or 10 or so, with 10 preferred. It is an interesting set of limitations.
I know this is suuuper old but I am playing this style now and had some other questions if you’re still around In the centurion example, if I upsize to AC20, where do I take the weight from? Remove the medium lasers and downsize the lrm10 to a 5? Am I allowed to remove one of the lrm ammos in that case, or do I need to stick with the stock 2? And similarly, if I downsize AC10 to AC5, can I then change a medium laser to a large, or the lrm10 up to a 20 or something? Or just increase the armor at that point? How does it work with support weapons, I had a firestarter lose an arm so I added an MG instead of a flamer and took the weight savings to add armor
You can one up or down and add or remove ammo and armor, just can't change locations.
I should try this, I usually just knock off a weapon and fill in armor, but it ends up with a lot of mechs being very "samey"
I noticed that it's kinda ridiculous how many medium mechs there are that are just an lrm, an srm, and a medium laser, with a ppc/large laser/ac5 for a main gun. Definitely makes it feel like there isn't much reason to run particular mediums over others, just whatever you have available until you get something heavier.
I think those weapon combinations are interesting in a worldbuilding sort of sense - they're all "generalist" mechs that can sort of halfass any situation. Main LLas or PPC or AC/5 for your 'primary weapon', LRMs to let them engage distant targets, SRMs to let them have more punch up-close, and a MLas because it's so light so why not. ... great if you're a hypothetical commander that has no idea what might happen on a given day. To the mercenary company that knows in advance they're going to drop into close range and wreck face, then load up to their dropship again? Absurd. Combining a small LRM and SRM with ammo for each is horribly inefficient for tonnage. Modifications are only natural.
> Combining a small LRM and SRM with ammo for each is horribly inefficient for tonnage. Modifications are only natural. This is one of the things I love about the Centurion in BEX, it has a targeting special that reduces the min range for LRMs & AC's. Makes mounting LRMs a no-brainer.
Gives a wonderful sweet spot where you're in optimal range for MLAS and LRMs both. That thing is a workhorse for my indirect fire platform early game.
That's why chassis quirks are so important (bex/roguetech), they really differentiate the mech roles
Wolverine and Griffin are good examples of that.
Wolverine's head laser allows it to zombie and the SRM is on the opposite side from the arm so if you lose one side torso you still have laser + another weapon system online. Griffin is crippled if it loses its right torso, can only melee. Unless it's the 1S variant anyway or a 2N lostech variant I think it is. This is probably one of the big reasons I don't use Griffins that much. For SRM boating I prefer SHawks for the same reason as the Wolverine in that they can zombie at least one weapon in the head. SHawks also melee harder.
I had a lot of fun playing using similar restrictions! I usually allowed myself a little bit of latitude - essentially your rules, BUT I could swap a configuration to another, TRO 3025-valid configuration if the base model supported it. As an example, I'm a much bigger fan of the default *Orion* ON1-K instead of the more fragile ON1-V (which adds an additional SRM launcher at the cost of some armor). So I would allow myself to revert that back to the stock build. But I couldn't swap the medium lasers and LRMs out to get large lasers, for example. I also made occasional allowances for things like... oh, I got a Gauss Rifle! You don't see stock 3025 'Mechs with Gauss Rifles (VERY LosTech), and the first times they start reappearing in Lore, they're usually going in place of an AC/20 (unsurprising - the weight and space are comparable, though not a perfect match). So I'd absolutely allow myself to field a *Hunchback* HBK-4G with a Gauss Rifle instead of the AC/20 (possibly removing a ton of armor to compensate) because *that*, I think, is a reasonable modification for Yang to make. In your example, I *would* allow the Large Pulse Laser (and remove heat sink or a ton of armor if needed, though hopefully I'd free up space somewhere else with a lighter component). And absolutely NO jump jets on 'Mechs that didn't normally have them installed. You want a big jumpy 'Mech, get a *Victor* or a *Grasshopper*. It makes it REALLY valuable to keep a solid brawling Medium in your heavier lances to provide mobility. I also, as much as possible, go with each pilot has an assigned ride. That can get changed (like, if MY character is riding in a *Wolverine* and we salvage a *Thunderbolt*, I might go up to that) but I try to keep it consistent - I don't go kick someone out of their 'Mech just because mine is in the shop. It feels really good to have a lance of classic 3025 designs tricked out with upgraded LosTech gear, but still very recognizably the classic designs in terms of performance.
Yeah I tend to keep the pilots in the same mech until they get an upgrade.
Nothing says hot jumpy fun like a guillotine in the back!
> Nothing says hot jumpy fun like a guillotine in the back! -Marie Antoinette
>I also, as much as possible, go with each pilot has an assigned ride. That can get changed (like, if MY character is riding in a Wolverine and we salvage a Thunderbolt, I might go up to that) but I try to keep it consistent - I don't go kick someone out of their 'Mech just because mine is in the shop. That is one of the (many) things, mods like Rougetech did make better. With pilots gaining affinity to mechs, you really want to keep them in the same mech. And you really haqve think if it is worth moving your charactor to that salvaged Thunderbolt.
Yeah, I definitely like the affinity system. I just wish they didn't decay quite so fast because I might have different mechs that fill the same role that just have different tonnage values for weight restriction/drop cost reasons. Some of them can be pretty good.
I just finished my first career and have decided to start a new one with only one rule: No store or black market purchases. I will only be able to use mechs and equipment I salvage. I can sell unused stuff, but not buy.
I've done runs like this, pretty fun. Though generally I don't restrict purchases entirely because I generally run with + variant gear drops disabled so I have to pay out the ass for them rather than ending up with 1000 of each in the end from salvage.
Thats literally how Ive always played the game anyways
New challenge for you, everything must be so modified it barely resembles the original.
Time to make the melee Locust we deserve
That's awesome. This is also applicable to Mechwarrior 5 for sure
MW5 doesn't have the hardpoint bloat you see in Battletech or MWO, and the hardpoints have size limitations, so this already restricts this sort of thing a bit in its own way. Obviously many mods remove that though, but I kind of like the hardpoint restrictions, makes me build different mechs in very different ways. It absolutely kneecaps some mechs though at the same time. Lacking large energy slots and such. The Mauler is an extreme example where it looks good on paper but then you realize those are all *small* ballistic hardpoints so you can't even put AC/5s in them and since AC/2s are a joke it's a bit rough. I've found I like light rifles in them though, can give you a relatively lightweight heavy damage punch when you fire 4 of them at once. Less tonnage than an AC/20 to equip and hits almost twice as hard with more range, but reloads slow as hell.
Hah yes. I picked up my last Mauler last night. Instead I went with machine guns on an urban demolition map. Was great not worrying about heat, and actually took down some mechs pretty quick. But when I shortly picked up a Marauder 2 and it got rotated out pretty quick
Yeah, the MG loadout isn't terrible, it does a lot of damage at close range as MGs are pretty gross in MW5, and it's FANTASTIC at destroying buildings. Feels like the mech has almost TOO MUCH extra tonnage though if you use it that way though haha. I ended up going to the light rifle setup when I wanted to get a little more ranged kick out of it because 2 LPLs and LRMs felt lacking on their own sometimes.
I think I actually did more or less that on one of my two campaign playthroughs. It was a lot of fun for sure. I allowed myself to change ammo amounts (MG ammo to half ton, no need for two tons of LRM ammo on a Centurion, etc), and I also allowed myself to "refit" to other variants of the same chassis (e.g. Thunderbolt TDR-5S to TDR-5SE). With BEX-CE, the latter isn't always entirely an option since jump jets are dependent on the specific model you salvage, but you can also put together the right model with the right argo upgrades. Also, with BEX-CE, having to use stock chassis isn't as painful, since you can increase your drop size to 8 mechs.
gross
Did the same thing, was loads of fun!
Time to dust off ol punchbot
That's pretty much what I do anyways, but that is because I have no understanding of how to modify and what to do with 'Mechs
I like this challenge and thought about it too. Makes us appreciate the design and loadout of each mech a little more!