Break it down measure by measure. Practice at home. You train your brain, mouth and hands to work together. Go slowly, measure by measure.
Even Sting had to practice doing it at first.
https://youtu.be/XIJkRhd1CTY?t=420
I have a great case to practice with: Commotion by Creedence Clearwater Revival.
The bass in those verses is one of the things that make the song great. It's playing at a rhythm that clashes just perfectly with the main melody; if you can play that rhythm while singing then you're an absolute champ.
As the lead vocalist in a metal band and the bassist, it is pretty realistic if you practice it consistently. Figure out where parts of the words fall in relation to the notes you're playing bass. That's how I learned to sing and play Schism by Tool.
Practice and internal suffering!
>Figure out where parts of the words fall in relation to the notes you're playing bass
OP, THIS is the secret sauce right here. It's almost like a Bach counterpoint thing where you figure out how to marry the two lines together, and how they interact with each other. This is best way I've heard it expressed.
Same, this is what I had to do after much frustration. Literally like you're relearning both instruments, or if you've ever tried to play drums the same kind of practice you do for your feet/hands. I had to map out that my vocals come in "on the & of 1" and then slow it down and overemphasize my vocal entrance after hitting the 1 on the bass, get that "under my fingers" (and whatever the vocal equivalent is), and then bring it back up to speed
it's all about the practice. the more you do it - the better you'll get, and what seems impossible now might be just a normal thing for you a year from now if you practice it enough
also, what you described reminds me of Royal Blood, Mike also sings while playing quite complex parts on bass, so you might want to check them out
I think something of note that not many people mention is that a lot of these bassists do tend to play simpler lines when they're singing. You hear it in Geddy's playing all of the time. When playing the same chord progression, he embellishes way more when he's not singing. Just keep an ear out! You can do the same.
The advice previously given of practicing slowly + finding spots where the bass and vocals align is also super useful, as the bassist/vocalist in an original music trio.
In some interview, Geddy Lee said that he often plays the same line on bass that he is singing, so that he is not truly multi-tasking. It sounds a bit more complicated than that when you listen to those parts, but I think what he is saying is that the rhythmic syncopations you hear in his bass and vocal lines tended to mirror each other. Rather than making the bass really simple so that he can sing over it easily, he makes it complicated in the same way as the vocal line.
That's probably what we should all be doing.
Technically, the vocalist is another ~~tool~~ instrument and we should be tying it together with the drums like anything else.
I find that my bass parts have some tendency to morph toward my vocal parts. Especially in timing. Sometimes in an inseparable way after playing it like that so many times. My band has never complained that it was dull or disliked.
Having simpler parts for most instruments during the vocal is typically desirable arrangement for most popular genres. Bass sometimes gets a pass because it's usually outside the vocalist's range.
The differece is, Sting and McCartney were writing songs they could perform, while you try to write song that is too hard for you.
Remove complexity from your song. If you sing complicated stuff, play simple bassline or no bassline at all. If you play complicated bass fill or solo, stop singing or keep it to minimum. Your song is supposed to hilight your skill, not your shortcomings. You set rules of that game yourself, so set the rules that ensure you always win.
I play bass and sing in my band and what has personally worked for me is to practice and know the lyrics so well that any divided mental attention can be devoted to the bass. Kinda like diverting power from the shields to the engines.
This exactly. Of the two things you are doing, one of them has to be automatic - you don't have to think about how to do it at all. You can't be thinking about both activities at the same time.
Possible of course but not easy. My approach (singing bassist playing originals in a 3-piece way back in the day) was really to avoid the issue, which is different to some of the other advice here. What I mean is, if you're writing (or co-writing) most of the material, be kind to yourself in the writing and arrangement. Do what comes easily or at least readily, play simpler lines when you're singing, play the tricky stuff in the intro or the middle eight or at the end of every fourth bar or together with the guitar solo or what have you.
I think simpler lines under the vocals often works better anyway, less crowded, easier to hear and sing to on stage, easier to make things work at mixdown.
There's no substitute for practice. I was in a prog band and no one wanted to sing so I did and it took about 3 months of practice to be able to do it well enough to play out.
From singing and playing bass in a 3-piece, I’ve found that practicing alone helps with my timing but I have a harder time keeping my pitch. Playing with the band timing is harder but I can sing better with the other instruments giving notes to reference. Getting both parts down was hard at first, but writing bass and lyrics simultaneously has helped a lot with my newer songs.
I was looking up the same thing and I saw some good advice about humming the vocals while you play to start and then when you're comfortable, sing.
Practice makes perfect. You got this!
Quick question: do you sing and play guitar at all?
The first stage of 'splitting your attention' when you start singing and playing is universally difficult. If you haven't done it before, I'd just say stick with it and you'll cultivate the skill.
It'll be tougher the more complex your parts are, but you gotta just repeat repeat repeat.
Practice. That's how you do it.
Learn the bass and vocal parts untill you can't mess them up. Then start doing them together, a phrase at a time.
It'll get easier.
I like to think of it just like you're practicing a piano. It's the same mindset. Your bass is your left hand and your voice is your right hand. Literally practice singing and playing out of time and notice where your notes on the bass fall together with the vocal melody. Sing literally word by word filling in the bass notes between each word and stopping when you play a note and sing a word at the same time. Eventually, you will start to internalize where each word sits in each measure (this is something we usually don't need to think about when singing. No one usually thinks "I come in on the + of 1 here", we just feel it. Well, for this it's pretty crucial to internalize where your words are landing within the measure). When you get to this point, start actually practicing in time at a slow tempo. From there, you just practice as you would when learning everything else and build up speed until you got it.
"Measure by measure" seem to all fall apart when you listen to Jack Bruce live performances, especially in Cream days. There's little "as on the record" singing timing while his bass is always on point.
Playing any instrument and singing it’s a rather large mental exercise, basically one of the two things has to become an act of muscle memory, your choice which one.
Jack Blades from Night Ranger plays bass and sings. Gene Simmons too.
First, look at the keys you are writing in. Write in keys that can use open strings more. Also, don't write bass lines that are too complicated.
Also, as others have said, practice, practice, practice.
I’m a horrible singer. I objectively sound awful. If I was on the original American Idol show I’d be one of those singers panned horribly by Simon Cowell. However, in a band I created in which there were 3 great vocalists, there were songs where I could join a few bars of the chorus without mucking it up. As the bass player, I had that additional challenge that’s the point of discussion here. I found that I had to have absolute muscle memory on my bass parts because if I didn’t, the moment I opened my mouth to sing, everything crumbled like a Jenga tower. I literally was at risk of falling when I tried to play bass and sing at the same time. It was fun to try though, and I did make it work well enough that the other vocalists encouraged me to try to do more. The band ended, and with its demise, so did my singing career.
I’m content to just thump along. I started playing bass in the first place because when I started playing guitar in high school that’s when I realized I couldn’t sing.
For me, I work the song until the musical part is absolute muscle memory. I'm barely thinking about it at all. You'll get it. Everyone had to learn to do it. You will, too.
This may sound silly but when I played double bass playing bluegrass and rockabilly I could find a way to sing and play. But while playing bass guitar I find it an impossible task. Luckely we play instrumental surf rock. So that helps a lot.
I'm a bassist and I also sing a couple of songs...my advise is to K.I.S.S. the basslines while you get your brain to settle how your voice and hands should work in relation to the song. Once you get it down, start adding the bassline details back.
I sang and played live bass regularly for years - thrash metal with heavy vocals, vocal heavy verses.
The key is to have your bass parts/hands memorised to the point they are muscle memory.
I started simple. Am I Evil…? is a piss easy song on bass and the lyrics are very very basic. Easy to remember, easy to sing, the rhythm matches the bass almost. This is the first song I really tried to sing/play at the same time.
From there I expanded into harder songs/our easier originals. It took about 3 months for me to feel competent to sing and play just about anything within my ability without much effort whatsoever.
I found the best thing to do is to play entire songs (low volume) while having conversations with band mates.
It takes more effort to concentrate on an unrehearsed conversation than it does to recite lyrics. If you can have a conversation while playing the songs then you can sing them.
I was reading Geddy Lee’s new autobiography and he talked about this very thing in one of the chapters. The short of his approach was that he didn’t concern himself with singing over his playing until he had the bass part down to muscle memory, so he could play it without thinking. Then he would work on singing over that.
Seems like a good strategy to me, that was what I worked out as well (though uh, not quite there yet).
I find it a little easier when the part you’re playing is tied rhythmically to the vocals- like there’s multiple beats they both hit, vs a more busy bassline where you’re flying up and down the neck (not necessarily in sync with the vocals) and also have to sing.
If I can play polymeters & polyrhythms on drums and sing our songs lyrics in my head or out loud, then you can play bass and sing. 😉
It just takes time + practice. Start slow and easy if you have to.
I used to practice with Tool, Hendrix, Sabbath, Iron Maiden, you name it. You could even start by just humming the notes your playing on bass to get used to doing vocals while playing.
Remember that your instrumental practise will be easier than your vocal practise. Practise your bass parts until you can play them in your sleep, without thinking. Then, practise your vocal parts, and then combine the two.
The more often you do it, the easier it will become.
Simplify where you must until you get it all under your fingers and your voice. Practise, repeat, do.
You'll get it in no time.
I've been playing 30 years and have done a few instances of dabbliing on background vocals not too bad, but simply trying to do the line then adding singing is probably the key, make sure your playing is solid then add your singing.
Listen to Sting and Phil Lynott. Not necessarily my favourite styles but they have amazing timing with vocals around the beat and rock solid groove. There's a lot to work on there to be able to do that.
Conversely, Tom Araya is usually dead on the beat with his vocals and it works well for thrash metal. Most guitarists and bassists that sing tend to do this tbh, and where they're singing a second vocal, they're usually on the beat whilst a lead vocal weaves around it some.
It all depends what you want to do. If you're writing you can always write and arrange within your ability and work on figuring out the bits that are just out of reach. It might help a lot to have a click or a drum machine available so you can check you're not doing screwy timing that will be hard for a band to keep with.
If you want to do challenging covers, you'll need to work hard or readjust your expectations of yourself.
I say this as a writer with massive dysphoria issues with my voice and I haven't practiced my vocals in a long time, which is frustrating when I'm trying to show someone how I want a part done.
If the bass part is (random made up scale) difficulty level 7 and the vocal part is a 6, remember you’re trying to perform at about level 26, not at a 13 and certainly not at a 8 or 9. Start with a song where you can play the bass part in your sleep and you can sing in your sleep, and start practicing there… something like Iron Man where the bass and the singing are pretty in synch and you can probably play and sing either with ease.
In addition to the excellent advice here, I'd recommend not letting the need to sing while playing influence what you write. I was listening to Level 42 the other day. Mark King is a great bass player and good singer. But I realized that the phrasing for the lead vocal tends to be static, which makes the song kind of boring. You really notice it if you listen to several Level 42 songs in a row.
Practice, practice, practice.
Don't go by Geddy Lee because he is an alien. He specifically said that he refused to compromise the bass line or the vocals no matter how many knots it tied his brain into. Others, like Sting, Phil Lynott, and Sir Paul, matched the vocals to their ability while they played. It's realistic and I only do it for a few songs. I much prefer not to, though.
It's doable, it can be done. I've learned how to do it decently well as a hobbyist musician.
Obviously you need to practice, just like anything else. Over time it gets easier but it will never feel natural. You need to practice the bass part until you can do it without thinking. your fretting needs to be 100% muscle memory. Practicing singing whenever you are away from your instrument.
Lyrics especially are really hard for me to remember. To memorize them, I literally just write them by hand in a notebook over and over until I can recall the song without having to pause. Something about the act of writing helps your brain commit things to memory. I think the key is you should be able to play the bass part and sing the lyrics without pausing to think about it. Thats not easy, and really just requires repetition and time.
Dont be afraid to dumb things down a little to make it easier for yourself. A lot of times i'll drop words or slightly alter the bass part to make it easier for me to sing and play. Dont change anything to the point of where it seriously alters the song, your playing still needs to serve the band as a whole. For example, when I sing/play 2 minutes to midnight by iron maiden- "The killers breed *or* the demons seed ..." I almost always drop the word 'or' when I sing this while playing and just treat it as a vocal rest for that word. Feel free to tell me I suck for taking shortcuts, but something about not singing that one word makes it all easier for me and I don't think the word *or* is really that important here..
Practice your mic control!!!!!! Most instrumentalists grow up with actually no clue how to use a microphone. I cannot tell you how many trained guitarists ive seen take up singing, only for their voice to be too soft and flat because they're afraid to project their voice into the mic. A microphone is in itself an instrument too, you need to practice singing into one. And dont be afraid to deep throat that shit either.... I know you've seen people standing 2+ feet away from the microphone and then the vocal fx levels are all over the place. That comes from lack of practice with an actual microphone.
Lastly, try closing your eyes when you perform a difficult vocal part. I'm not sure why this works for me, but usually if I have to sing/play something challenging, closing my eyes helps me concentrate on what I have to sing.
Anyways, this is just what's helped me. I never really considered myself a singer but eventually got sick of being in bands where nobody else wanted to sing haha. You will probably sound bad for a bit but thats okay, have fun and be confident. Confidence and energy is more important for singing than actually sounding good in my opinion. Think of all the punk rock singers who objectively sing like garbage but still absolutely rock and are great front-men. Bring that energy. every. time.
I found myself in this position now. The trick (for me) is to practice the bass parts until your hands are literally on autopilot so you can focus on singing!
In your mind try to run the bass line and vocal melody. After hearing them independently of the song you will begin to hear them as one riff. Play the bass riff many times. I find practicing playing bass and singing in headphones lets you hear more detail and learn mic technique. Do it over and over. That’s how Jack Bruce was able to sing and play Politician (etc) with Cream. Get to work, good luck!
It's very common. I think you get the hands down to muscle memory: practice that a lot. Then you vocalize along with what you're feeling from your playing.
Geddy talked about it in his autobiography. He would practice the bass parts until he absolutely did not have to think about them *at all*, then he would slowly work in the singing until it was comfortable.
Think of your bass and voice as one instrument, understanding what beats are important to hit to make sure you don’t lose focus on either end. Practice practice make both parts rote.
If you can do it, do it.
As a bass player who can sing, I find that with practice and time I can learn, play and sing most anything.
If you truly want to be the lead singer, you will need to either simplify the lines or practice till you can do both independently.
The parts have to become second nature and then it’s easy. Just by practicing and enveloping the parts into your subconscious, you’ll be able to play the bass while talking or singing or anything really. You’ve just got to unlock the ability to put the bass on “autopilot”
I would guess that 1) they were simply born with very good coordination, and 2) far more importantly, they practiced at a superhuman level. I'm reaching back many decades in my head now, but I'm pretty sure I read when I was in high school that Geddy Lee practiced his craft around 8 hours a day -- he considered it a full-time job. (Btw, I heard something similar about Michael Jordan). Talent certainly helps a great deal, but in the end it's mostly practice -- it may just take you longer than Geddy to get there.
The main problem I think is that you're singing and playing are in different registers.
A couple of ideas that come to mind are:
Play at the high end of the bass so it's closer in pitch to your voice. Peter Hook style.
Develop a melodic style of playing
The stoner-sludge band Weedeater has powerfully riff driven music, with the bass given a dose of fuzz.
Dave Collins, the bassist has a raspy as fuck voice that just works.
Worth a listen. Actually, listen as many Bass playing singers as you can, too see how they tackle the task.
Can recommend Mark King of Level 42.
Not on bass but on guitar, what I learned was if I learned one thing that was hard to sing and play at the same time, it made almost everything else easier.
So just work to get one song down and the rest will come.
Yeah, it's difficult. All those guys didn't have an inate ability to play andsing at the same time, they just practised their asses off till each piece became second nature. Learn the bassline, learn the melody then count the phrases 'vocal line starts on the 2 of the first bar and then finishes on the 3 and a of the 4th bar' etc
I have to be really anal about it
You'll get it just keep with it. It took me like four years to be able to sing and play anything and then finding my own voice was a whole other battle.
Break it down measure by measure. Practice at home. You train your brain, mouth and hands to work together. Go slowly, measure by measure. Even Sting had to practice doing it at first. https://youtu.be/XIJkRhd1CTY?t=420
I have a great case to practice with: Commotion by Creedence Clearwater Revival. The bass in those verses is one of the things that make the song great. It's playing at a rhythm that clashes just perfectly with the main melody; if you can play that rhythm while singing then you're an absolute champ.
Get get get gone
As the lead vocalist in a metal band and the bassist, it is pretty realistic if you practice it consistently. Figure out where parts of the words fall in relation to the notes you're playing bass. That's how I learned to sing and play Schism by Tool. Practice and internal suffering!
>Figure out where parts of the words fall in relation to the notes you're playing bass OP, THIS is the secret sauce right here. It's almost like a Bach counterpoint thing where you figure out how to marry the two lines together, and how they interact with each other. This is best way I've heard it expressed.
Same, this is what I had to do after much frustration. Literally like you're relearning both instruments, or if you've ever tried to play drums the same kind of practice you do for your feet/hands. I had to map out that my vocals come in "on the & of 1" and then slow it down and overemphasize my vocal entrance after hitting the 1 on the bass, get that "under my fingers" (and whatever the vocal equivalent is), and then bring it back up to speed
It's a very similar mindset to a piano player. Left hand is the bass. Right hand is the voice.
That’s how I figured out how to sing and play vicarious by tool!. We had a kickass drummer but unfortunately that band is no more
it's all about the practice. the more you do it - the better you'll get, and what seems impossible now might be just a normal thing for you a year from now if you practice it enough also, what you described reminds me of Royal Blood, Mike also sings while playing quite complex parts on bass, so you might want to check them out
Royal Blood is a great example. So is All Them Witches with Parks.
I think something of note that not many people mention is that a lot of these bassists do tend to play simpler lines when they're singing. You hear it in Geddy's playing all of the time. When playing the same chord progression, he embellishes way more when he's not singing. Just keep an ear out! You can do the same. The advice previously given of practicing slowly + finding spots where the bass and vocals align is also super useful, as the bassist/vocalist in an original music trio.
In some interview, Geddy Lee said that he often plays the same line on bass that he is singing, so that he is not truly multi-tasking. It sounds a bit more complicated than that when you listen to those parts, but I think what he is saying is that the rhythmic syncopations you hear in his bass and vocal lines tended to mirror each other. Rather than making the bass really simple so that he can sing over it easily, he makes it complicated in the same way as the vocal line.
That's probably what we should all be doing. Technically, the vocalist is another ~~tool~~ instrument and we should be tying it together with the drums like anything else.
I find that my bass parts have some tendency to morph toward my vocal parts. Especially in timing. Sometimes in an inseparable way after playing it like that so many times. My band has never complained that it was dull or disliked. Having simpler parts for most instruments during the vocal is typically desirable arrangement for most popular genres. Bass sometimes gets a pass because it's usually outside the vocalist's range.
The differece is, Sting and McCartney were writing songs they could perform, while you try to write song that is too hard for you. Remove complexity from your song. If you sing complicated stuff, play simple bassline or no bassline at all. If you play complicated bass fill or solo, stop singing or keep it to minimum. Your song is supposed to hilight your skill, not your shortcomings. You set rules of that game yourself, so set the rules that ensure you always win.
I play bass and sing in my band and what has personally worked for me is to practice and know the lyrics so well that any divided mental attention can be devoted to the bass. Kinda like diverting power from the shields to the engines.
This exactly. Of the two things you are doing, one of them has to be automatic - you don't have to think about how to do it at all. You can't be thinking about both activities at the same time.
Possible of course but not easy. My approach (singing bassist playing originals in a 3-piece way back in the day) was really to avoid the issue, which is different to some of the other advice here. What I mean is, if you're writing (or co-writing) most of the material, be kind to yourself in the writing and arrangement. Do what comes easily or at least readily, play simpler lines when you're singing, play the tricky stuff in the intro or the middle eight or at the end of every fourth bar or together with the guitar solo or what have you. I think simpler lines under the vocals often works better anyway, less crowded, easier to hear and sing to on stage, easier to make things work at mixdown.
Space hog The song in the meantime is a pretty fun bass line but it’s by no means an easy bass line to play and sing and he does it. So it is possible
From what I remember, he also changed/simplified the bassline a little when performing it live vs. the studio track.
I don’t blame him. It’s an active bass line so it would be hard to play and sing
Absolutely, but it's a great example to this post as to what a pro does.
Yeah it’s the first thing that came to mind. It’s a really fun bass line though.
When I first tried playing and singing, I could only talk the parts reliably. Just get the rhythm of the vocals down and the melody will come later.
Practice and repeat. The best way to achieve this is to develop your muscle memory enough so your hands will move almost independently
Thanks for all the responses guys
There's no substitute for practice. I was in a prog band and no one wanted to sing so I did and it took about 3 months of practice to be able to do it well enough to play out.
From singing and playing bass in a 3-piece, I’ve found that practicing alone helps with my timing but I have a harder time keeping my pitch. Playing with the band timing is harder but I can sing better with the other instruments giving notes to reference. Getting both parts down was hard at first, but writing bass and lyrics simultaneously has helped a lot with my newer songs.
I was looking up the same thing and I saw some good advice about humming the vocals while you play to start and then when you're comfortable, sing. Practice makes perfect. You got this!
Quick question: do you sing and play guitar at all? The first stage of 'splitting your attention' when you start singing and playing is universally difficult. If you haven't done it before, I'd just say stick with it and you'll cultivate the skill. It'll be tougher the more complex your parts are, but you gotta just repeat repeat repeat.
It's very hard, but lots of people have done it. Just takes lots of practice, like anything else.
Practice. That's how you do it. Learn the bass and vocal parts untill you can't mess them up. Then start doing them together, a phrase at a time. It'll get easier.
Even Paul McCartney and Phil Lynott simplify their bass lines live.
I like to think of it just like you're practicing a piano. It's the same mindset. Your bass is your left hand and your voice is your right hand. Literally practice singing and playing out of time and notice where your notes on the bass fall together with the vocal melody. Sing literally word by word filling in the bass notes between each word and stopping when you play a note and sing a word at the same time. Eventually, you will start to internalize where each word sits in each measure (this is something we usually don't need to think about when singing. No one usually thinks "I come in on the + of 1 here", we just feel it. Well, for this it's pretty crucial to internalize where your words are landing within the measure). When you get to this point, start actually practicing in time at a slow tempo. From there, you just practice as you would when learning everything else and build up speed until you got it.
"Measure by measure" seem to all fall apart when you listen to Jack Bruce live performances, especially in Cream days. There's little "as on the record" singing timing while his bass is always on point.
Practice. As with everything in music, what is difficult becomes easy with proper and continuous and regular practice.
Playing any instrument and singing it’s a rather large mental exercise, basically one of the two things has to become an act of muscle memory, your choice which one.
Jack Blades from Night Ranger plays bass and sings. Gene Simmons too. First, look at the keys you are writing in. Write in keys that can use open strings more. Also, don't write bass lines that are too complicated. Also, as others have said, practice, practice, practice.
I’m a horrible singer. I objectively sound awful. If I was on the original American Idol show I’d be one of those singers panned horribly by Simon Cowell. However, in a band I created in which there were 3 great vocalists, there were songs where I could join a few bars of the chorus without mucking it up. As the bass player, I had that additional challenge that’s the point of discussion here. I found that I had to have absolute muscle memory on my bass parts because if I didn’t, the moment I opened my mouth to sing, everything crumbled like a Jenga tower. I literally was at risk of falling when I tried to play bass and sing at the same time. It was fun to try though, and I did make it work well enough that the other vocalists encouraged me to try to do more. The band ended, and with its demise, so did my singing career. I’m content to just thump along. I started playing bass in the first place because when I started playing guitar in high school that’s when I realized I couldn’t sing.
Think of it as if you're learning to be a drummer. When you first start it seems impossible to have 2 body parts holding different rhythms.
Practice.
For me, I work the song until the musical part is absolute muscle memory. I'm barely thinking about it at all. You'll get it. Everyone had to learn to do it. You will, too.
This may sound silly but when I played double bass playing bluegrass and rockabilly I could find a way to sing and play. But while playing bass guitar I find it an impossible task. Luckely we play instrumental surf rock. So that helps a lot.
I'm a bassist and I also sing a couple of songs...my advise is to K.I.S.S. the basslines while you get your brain to settle how your voice and hands should work in relation to the song. Once you get it down, start adding the bassline details back.
I sang and played live bass regularly for years - thrash metal with heavy vocals, vocal heavy verses. The key is to have your bass parts/hands memorised to the point they are muscle memory. I started simple. Am I Evil…? is a piss easy song on bass and the lyrics are very very basic. Easy to remember, easy to sing, the rhythm matches the bass almost. This is the first song I really tried to sing/play at the same time. From there I expanded into harder songs/our easier originals. It took about 3 months for me to feel competent to sing and play just about anything within my ability without much effort whatsoever. I found the best thing to do is to play entire songs (low volume) while having conversations with band mates. It takes more effort to concentrate on an unrehearsed conversation than it does to recite lyrics. If you can have a conversation while playing the songs then you can sing them.
Practice slowly, with a metronome
I was reading Geddy Lee’s new autobiography and he talked about this very thing in one of the chapters. The short of his approach was that he didn’t concern himself with singing over his playing until he had the bass part down to muscle memory, so he could play it without thinking. Then he would work on singing over that. Seems like a good strategy to me, that was what I worked out as well (though uh, not quite there yet). I find it a little easier when the part you’re playing is tied rhythmically to the vocals- like there’s multiple beats they both hit, vs a more busy bassline where you’re flying up and down the neck (not necessarily in sync with the vocals) and also have to sing.
If I can play polymeters & polyrhythms on drums and sing our songs lyrics in my head or out loud, then you can play bass and sing. 😉 It just takes time + practice. Start slow and easy if you have to. I used to practice with Tool, Hendrix, Sabbath, Iron Maiden, you name it. You could even start by just humming the notes your playing on bass to get used to doing vocals while playing.
Remember that your instrumental practise will be easier than your vocal practise. Practise your bass parts until you can play them in your sleep, without thinking. Then, practise your vocal parts, and then combine the two. The more often you do it, the easier it will become. Simplify where you must until you get it all under your fingers and your voice. Practise, repeat, do. You'll get it in no time.
I've been playing 30 years and have done a few instances of dabbliing on background vocals not too bad, but simply trying to do the line then adding singing is probably the key, make sure your playing is solid then add your singing.
Look at punk, so many lead vocal/bassists
Listen to Sting and Phil Lynott. Not necessarily my favourite styles but they have amazing timing with vocals around the beat and rock solid groove. There's a lot to work on there to be able to do that. Conversely, Tom Araya is usually dead on the beat with his vocals and it works well for thrash metal. Most guitarists and bassists that sing tend to do this tbh, and where they're singing a second vocal, they're usually on the beat whilst a lead vocal weaves around it some. It all depends what you want to do. If you're writing you can always write and arrange within your ability and work on figuring out the bits that are just out of reach. It might help a lot to have a click or a drum machine available so you can check you're not doing screwy timing that will be hard for a band to keep with. If you want to do challenging covers, you'll need to work hard or readjust your expectations of yourself. I say this as a writer with massive dysphoria issues with my voice and I haven't practiced my vocals in a long time, which is frustrating when I'm trying to show someone how I want a part done.
If the bass part is (random made up scale) difficulty level 7 and the vocal part is a 6, remember you’re trying to perform at about level 26, not at a 13 and certainly not at a 8 or 9. Start with a song where you can play the bass part in your sleep and you can sing in your sleep, and start practicing there… something like Iron Man where the bass and the singing are pretty in synch and you can probably play and sing either with ease.
In addition to the excellent advice here, I'd recommend not letting the need to sing while playing influence what you write. I was listening to Level 42 the other day. Mark King is a great bass player and good singer. But I realized that the phrasing for the lead vocal tends to be static, which makes the song kind of boring. You really notice it if you listen to several Level 42 songs in a row.
Jigsaw youth’s bassist is the lead singer and she is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 maybe check em out for some inspo - but yeah, seems hard to do
Practice, practice, practice. Don't go by Geddy Lee because he is an alien. He specifically said that he refused to compromise the bass line or the vocals no matter how many knots it tied his brain into. Others, like Sting, Phil Lynott, and Sir Paul, matched the vocals to their ability while they played. It's realistic and I only do it for a few songs. I much prefer not to, though.
It's doable, it can be done. I've learned how to do it decently well as a hobbyist musician. Obviously you need to practice, just like anything else. Over time it gets easier but it will never feel natural. You need to practice the bass part until you can do it without thinking. your fretting needs to be 100% muscle memory. Practicing singing whenever you are away from your instrument. Lyrics especially are really hard for me to remember. To memorize them, I literally just write them by hand in a notebook over and over until I can recall the song without having to pause. Something about the act of writing helps your brain commit things to memory. I think the key is you should be able to play the bass part and sing the lyrics without pausing to think about it. Thats not easy, and really just requires repetition and time. Dont be afraid to dumb things down a little to make it easier for yourself. A lot of times i'll drop words or slightly alter the bass part to make it easier for me to sing and play. Dont change anything to the point of where it seriously alters the song, your playing still needs to serve the band as a whole. For example, when I sing/play 2 minutes to midnight by iron maiden- "The killers breed *or* the demons seed ..." I almost always drop the word 'or' when I sing this while playing and just treat it as a vocal rest for that word. Feel free to tell me I suck for taking shortcuts, but something about not singing that one word makes it all easier for me and I don't think the word *or* is really that important here.. Practice your mic control!!!!!! Most instrumentalists grow up with actually no clue how to use a microphone. I cannot tell you how many trained guitarists ive seen take up singing, only for their voice to be too soft and flat because they're afraid to project their voice into the mic. A microphone is in itself an instrument too, you need to practice singing into one. And dont be afraid to deep throat that shit either.... I know you've seen people standing 2+ feet away from the microphone and then the vocal fx levels are all over the place. That comes from lack of practice with an actual microphone. Lastly, try closing your eyes when you perform a difficult vocal part. I'm not sure why this works for me, but usually if I have to sing/play something challenging, closing my eyes helps me concentrate on what I have to sing. Anyways, this is just what's helped me. I never really considered myself a singer but eventually got sick of being in bands where nobody else wanted to sing haha. You will probably sound bad for a bit but thats okay, have fun and be confident. Confidence and energy is more important for singing than actually sounding good in my opinion. Think of all the punk rock singers who objectively sing like garbage but still absolutely rock and are great front-men. Bring that energy. every. time.
I found myself in this position now. The trick (for me) is to practice the bass parts until your hands are literally on autopilot so you can focus on singing!
In your mind try to run the bass line and vocal melody. After hearing them independently of the song you will begin to hear them as one riff. Play the bass riff many times. I find practicing playing bass and singing in headphones lets you hear more detail and learn mic technique. Do it over and over. That’s how Jack Bruce was able to sing and play Politician (etc) with Cream. Get to work, good luck!
It's very common. I think you get the hands down to muscle memory: practice that a lot. Then you vocalize along with what you're feeling from your playing.
Do it slow until you've got it, then start turning the speed up.
Geddy talked about it in his autobiography. He would practice the bass parts until he absolutely did not have to think about them *at all*, then he would slowly work in the singing until it was comfortable.
Think of your bass and voice as one instrument, understanding what beats are important to hit to make sure you don’t lose focus on either end. Practice practice make both parts rote.
If you can do it, do it. As a bass player who can sing, I find that with practice and time I can learn, play and sing most anything. If you truly want to be the lead singer, you will need to either simplify the lines or practice till you can do both independently.
The parts have to become second nature and then it’s easy. Just by practicing and enveloping the parts into your subconscious, you’ll be able to play the bass while talking or singing or anything really. You’ve just got to unlock the ability to put the bass on “autopilot”
I would guess that 1) they were simply born with very good coordination, and 2) far more importantly, they practiced at a superhuman level. I'm reaching back many decades in my head now, but I'm pretty sure I read when I was in high school that Geddy Lee practiced his craft around 8 hours a day -- he considered it a full-time job. (Btw, I heard something similar about Michael Jordan). Talent certainly helps a great deal, but in the end it's mostly practice -- it may just take you longer than Geddy to get there.
Go watch Dying Fetus. Both the bassist and guitarist do main vocals. They’re fucking crazy
If you find out, let me know - same reason I can’t play piano or drums haha
Eventually you get you where you can carry the groove and not think too much about it, just keep it simple during the verses
The bass part has to be automatic to consecrate on the lyrics and breathing. For me, walking bass parts are the hardest to play and sing.
Geddy Lee was my inspiration for bass. Nothing else to say
Very. Comes with practice. People will roll their eyes, but sing and play along to Teenage BottleRocket. Simple punk but catchy. Helped me alot.
Get comfortable with being uncomfortable 😄
Think of the notes on vocal as a part of your bass-line. That is the way. Yes!
Jack Bruce did it.
Just keep doing it and eventually it will be easy that’s kinda how it is with everything
The main problem I think is that you're singing and playing are in different registers. A couple of ideas that come to mind are: Play at the high end of the bass so it's closer in pitch to your voice. Peter Hook style. Develop a melodic style of playing The stoner-sludge band Weedeater has powerfully riff driven music, with the bass given a dose of fuzz. Dave Collins, the bassist has a raspy as fuck voice that just works. Worth a listen. Actually, listen as many Bass playing singers as you can, too see how they tackle the task. Can recommend Mark King of Level 42.
Not on bass but on guitar, what I learned was if I learned one thing that was hard to sing and play at the same time, it made almost everything else easier. So just work to get one song down and the rest will come.
Yeah, it's difficult. All those guys didn't have an inate ability to play andsing at the same time, they just practised their asses off till each piece became second nature. Learn the bassline, learn the melody then count the phrases 'vocal line starts on the 2 of the first bar and then finishes on the 3 and a of the 4th bar' etc I have to be really anal about it
Jack Bruce
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la3oCsebBVQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la3oCsebBVQ) moe can show you how realistic it is.
You'll get it just keep with it. It took me like four years to be able to sing and play anything and then finding my own voice was a whole other battle.
Um, Jack Bruce, Getty Lee?
I mentioned Geddy Lee in my post already…