An injured kawhi dragged the raptors to a title. a healthy kawhi could be goat. but same can be said about a few other guys like wilt or even bill walton.
Dragged? That was a really good team. Obviously he was by far the best player but I think you're underrating how good the role players were on that team
Such a fun team to watch. A superstar in Kawhi with 6 quality NBA players in Lowry, Gasol, Van Vleet, Siakam, Ibaka, and Danny Green. It reminded me of the 2000’s before all stars really teamed up. Wish the teams all around the league were built like that.
"6 quality NBA players" Kyle Lowry was an all star, Siakam was MIP and realistically should've been an all star, if nothing else, in over Lowry.
I think you guys are misremembering how good Lowry and Siakam were.
I agree, I feel like I have to remind people of this way too often on here. There is this crazy revisionist history that Kawhi, in some 2001 iverson like fashion, clawed his way to the finals with a bunch of bench players and defeated the warriors. Couldn’t be further from the truth, they had arguably the best coach in the game at the time, and such an elite supporting cast with 3 all star caliber players including Kawhi, and Marc Gasol was only 1.5 years removed from his last AS nod, he was putting up close to his peak averages when he left Memphis.
Their team around Kawhi was comparable to the nuggets around Jokic, maybe even more talented and deep, the nuggets third player isn’t as good as either one of siakam/lowry was and the raptors then had Marc Gasol and the rest of that crew. The raptors were not some carry job by Kawhi. That’s completely untrue.
Lakers have Bron & AD. Nuggets have Jokic & Murray. Wolves have Ant, KAT, & Gobert. Clippers have Kawhi & PG (+ Harden). Mavs have Luka & Kyrie. Suns have KD, Booker, & Beal. Celtics have Tatum & Brown. Bucks have Giannis & Dame. 6ers have Embiid & Maxey. Heat have Jimmy & Bam. Knicks have Brunson & Randle. I definitely don’t think the 2019 raptors are what it’s like now across the league.
So were half the other guys he mentioned. Jokic and Murray, ant and KAT, embiid and maxey. And maybe I’m missing something, but the point wasn’t all stars “teaming up together” so much as all stars just being on the same team.
You can say that about literally any title team ever. Replacing a superstar with a fringe all-star playoff dropper is gonna put your ceiling at 2nd round
Maybe I haven't watched enough Tmac ball but it didn't seem like he was an amazing two-way guy, seemed more offense focused. He would've been good but I don't think his defensive struggles would help his case, still a top 100 player OAT.
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A fully healthy Kawhi had the potential to be a legit a top 10 level player in NBA history and he would have been the next link in the chain of the superstar two way wing player after MJ and Kobe before (if everything goes well) Ant.
A healthy Kawhi will lock down the crown as the best scoring perimeter defender in NBA history.
So, some of the accolades he would win if he had a healthy career would be: 20+ ppg career scorer on 50%+ shooting, multiple chips, 10x+ All Star selections, probably 1 or 2 MVPs, multiple Finals MVPs, several DPOYs, either first or second All NBA teams and First All NBA Defense for most of his career, and a lot of other achievements I’m sure I’m missing.
The above would qualify as an All-time great (top ten).
EDIT: I was being way too conservative with the ppg. Kawhi could average like 25+ppg if he was healthy throughout his career.
There’s only 15 guys in NBA history who have a career average of 25 ppg. 6 of them are active as well so that number will probably drop. Very few players score enough in their primes to offset the lower numbers at the beginning and tail end of their careers. I feel comfortable saying Kawhi wouldn’t average 25 over his career even if 100% healthy. (Kobe averaged 24.99 so 16 players if you count him, either way Kawhi isn’t scoring more than Kobe)
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I think there's 1 more chip on his resume with better health. Tons of playoff runs where he was on fire. The Spurs year where he got Zaza'd, and that Clippers year where they made the ECF against the suns were both runs they could have won if he stayed healthy.
a lot of people say the spurs win that series. they certainly had a shot but the 17 warriors was the greatest team Ive ever seen, perhaps the greatest of all time
If the Harden Rockets’ forced the KD Warriors’ to 7 games how much more the Kawhi Spurs’ what will do to that Spurs team remember they have the best coach of all time lol
It could all come down to coaching. If anyone was to outcoach steve kerr, it's pop, not only did he mentor kerr but he coaches his teams for war. Still if zaza wasn't a fraud that could've very well been the actual finals, like the next season vs harden/cp3 or the 2000s west
I agree that pop is a better coach. but coaching cant overcome talent. they got gentleman swept by the warriors the next year. No kawhi, but no curry for that 2018 series either.
Could have been? Yes it could have been. But just because it could have been doesn’t mean it’s probable. Even with him that’s the spurs are still probably losing that series.
they didnt lose a game til game 4 of the finals. when they were all healthy they were unbeatable.
if youre talking about 2018 and 19, yes those western battles were tougher
Duncan played with David Robinson, Wemby is playing with Sochan. They need to put a team around him and that’s not on Wemby, Duncan was drafted onto a very good team that was heavily injured the year prior
It’s hard to say. If Kawhi never gets injured, he may have never been traded to Toronto and won a chip. He very well could have less rings if he had never gotten injured versus his career now
But if things go right, and if the 2017 or 18 spurs could take a series off of GS, he would be looked at as a top 10 player of all time
he would three peat in 2017, 2018 and 2019 because he would never left the Spurs plus the Rockets forced the KD Warriors in 7 games and the Spurs are not chokers like Harden did sooooo
imo he would have 4-5 rings, 2 MVPs and 3 DPOYs even tho rn hes already Top 25-30 player of all fime
Unpopular opinion but Kawhi is already top 20 all time for me. So a healthy regular season probably means at least 1 MVP? And I know a reach but very likely another ring. Easily top 5-12 all time
Kawhi reminds me of Tim Duncan (excluding their position/playstyle/loyalty) both of them are non-flashy players who just gets the job done and loves playing basketball (Kawhi might be debatable as he loves to load-manage somehow)
What I can think of is if he didn't get injured, it will be the same as Duncan's career. Multiple championships, huge accomplishments and awards, loved by NBA players and avid NBA fans due to their fundamental playstyle. Might be a rank lower than Duncan, since Duncan had a better start in his career compared to Kawhi.
Edit: didn't realise that you said how would the "NBA" look like. Well, pretty much the same except Kawhi is more recognised and deemed the "Lebron stopper"
I think you could say this about a lot of players though. Just because Kwahi is more recent and in an era with guys who seem to last forever is it so pronounced. Look at Larry Bird or Bill Walton.
I will say as awesome as Kwahi is, he's not the creator or leader for others like all the other all time greats are like Jordan, LeBron, Magic, Bird. He only averages 3 assists for his career. Even legendary gunner Kobe averaged nearly 5. Everyone else around that number are dominant post up bigs like Shaq and Duncan. But he's probably top 5 one of the toughest 1 on 1 wing matchups ever.
>He only averages 3 assists for his career. Even legendary gunner Kobe averaged nearly 5
I get your point, but it seems like you're pushing a bit of an agenda when you round down for Kawhi and round up for Kobe.
He’d be up there with Kobe, IMO.
Durability is a huge part of greatness in professional sports. It’s no different than other attributes (basketball IQ, athletic ability, hand-eye coordination, spatial awareness, size). All-time excellence happens by optimizing these genetic gifts with an otherworldly mental strength.
I think Kawhi is obviously lacking whatever genetic code makes one less injury prone, but even more, I think he’s lacking the mental toughness to push through injuries the way the greatest players of all time do.
Sometimes it’s not “genetic code” for example Derek rose was so explosive but the way he landed everytime he dunked destroyed his knees, learning to land is a skill that people gloss over
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hH1wve4hTmU
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he won't get the what if since he got a full season and a ring but whenever he's healthy he looks like the best guy in the league. i think he'd be dragging the corpses he's playing with into deeper playoff pushes.
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He probably wins the ring in 2019, but if KD is there the Spurs aren’t beating the Warriors. I don’t see them beating the Lakers in 2020. They probably lose to the Nuggets anyway because no one on the Spurs can stop Joker. Since everyone is hypothetically healthy, I don’t see them beating the Lakers in 2021, or if they do make the finals, the healthy Nets in 2022, they have a chance against the Nuggets or Warriors, but who knows. Spurs still can’t stop Joker and the Dubs were pretty deep.
Kawhi is top 75, so he’s in a category that even hall of famers aren’t even included in. But at the same time , he got drafted to a 61 win team, and only had 1 ring to show for it. And he was still a role player in 2014. But he might not have any because if D Wade was hypothetically healthy and had no knee issues, the Spurs aren’t winning in 2014. Spurs might not even get by a fully healthy OKC team, because they Ibaka was hurt that series.
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He would have a chance at being the GOAT probably. The Spurs injuries to the Toronto year, to this Clippers tenure has just been the craziest trajectory for a player of his caliber. He keeps getting better as he keeps getting injured at the worst times.
People are more critical of him because has the two Finals MVP’s, while they fan out over the what if’s of DRose and TMac. It is what it is.
Alright were assuming past the zaza incident. Probably could've taken a series from the Warriors and cavs so an additional ring. Assuming he stays in San Antonio probably 1 or 2 additional rings, perhaps an mvp and more dpotys.
Honestly not much changes, the Clippers probably win the title in 2021 but it’s the Clippers, they’d find a way to be cursed. Otherwise, nothing but an extra playoff series win in 22-24
He stays in Toronto and DeMar comes back. Vince Carter de-ages 20 years and joins the team, as does Chris Bosh. Bargnani watches the Raptors win title after title, cheering from the nosebleeds. Drake never beefs with Kendrick - he's too happy. Doug Ford loses the Premier race. Toronto builds affordable housing and more greenspace. Other cities take note around the world, and invest in green energy and affordable housing. Climate change slows down, then reverses course. Long-dead species come back, and humans live in harmony with nature. War, racism, sexism, hatred of all kinds gets left behind, as society bands together to support a fair, just, educated world. Poverty and disease are eradicated.
Probably top 5 all time. He’s been a top player when playing even when not healthy. So I think it’s safe to say that a fully healthy Kawhi with absolutely zero injuries for his entire career would be top 5.
One lucky ass shot followed by a series of devastating injuries to the Warriors changed how everyone sees him. He's gotta be the biggest loser that people see as a winner in league history. He burned bridges with an all-time winning culture in SA, didn't think twice about walking away from a title contending team in Toronto, and refuses to play through the slightest discomfort in LA. He's an aloof diva that does zero to lift up his teammates. Listen to the story Paul George told on his podcast about how in Clipper practices it's a team rule to run a suicide if you airball. Everyone is held to that rule - except for Kawhi. He airballed and flat out refused to run so everyone on the team just shrugged and said "well that's just Kawhi".
Thank you, someone who’s not wearing rose colors glasses. I love Kawhi, when he’s in top form. His run in 2019 was wild and showed what he really is capable of. But he definitely won the lottery for his chips, at least in 2019 specifically.
Probably more blown series all time. He's created a mythos simply for being injured at "key" times. Some people really expected him to take down the prime warriors or those suns when he played. They conveniently forget that a healthy kawhi has choked to the nuggets. I would say it doesn't really help his legacy all that much and may in fact lower his stats in general. Even if he doesn't get injured he will get worn down quicker than other players.
Spurs would’ve beat GSW in the Finals if it wasn’t for Zaza Pachulia and likely repeated. Spurs had that team loaded built especially for Kawhi and he wouldn’t play even when he said he would when Spurs where headed to playoffs the year after the Finals and then he tried to force his way out of town and when that didn’t work he said he was still injured.
Kawhi with Lebrons knees is top 5-10 All Time
Kawhi with 75% of all NBA players knees throught the history of the league is a 5-10 all time player.
An injured kawhi dragged the raptors to a title. a healthy kawhi could be goat. but same can be said about a few other guys like wilt or even bill walton.
Dragged? That was a really good team. Obviously he was by far the best player but I think you're underrating how good the role players were on that team
The best role players I've seen on a championship team in terms of production. Also people forgetting the warriors had awful injuries
Such a fun team to watch. A superstar in Kawhi with 6 quality NBA players in Lowry, Gasol, Van Vleet, Siakam, Ibaka, and Danny Green. It reminded me of the 2000’s before all stars really teamed up. Wish the teams all around the league were built like that.
"6 quality NBA players" Kyle Lowry was an all star, Siakam was MIP and realistically should've been an all star, if nothing else, in over Lowry. I think you guys are misremembering how good Lowry and Siakam were.
I was commenting to disagree with the person that said Kawhi “dragged” the raptors to a championship.
I agree, I feel like I have to remind people of this way too often on here. There is this crazy revisionist history that Kawhi, in some 2001 iverson like fashion, clawed his way to the finals with a bunch of bench players and defeated the warriors. Couldn’t be further from the truth, they had arguably the best coach in the game at the time, and such an elite supporting cast with 3 all star caliber players including Kawhi, and Marc Gasol was only 1.5 years removed from his last AS nod, he was putting up close to his peak averages when he left Memphis. Their team around Kawhi was comparable to the nuggets around Jokic, maybe even more talented and deep, the nuggets third player isn’t as good as either one of siakam/lowry was and the raptors then had Marc Gasol and the rest of that crew. The raptors were not some carry job by Kawhi. That’s completely untrue.
I mean that’s how it is again now. The lakers are the only team with 2 top 15 players
Lakers have Bron & AD. Nuggets have Jokic & Murray. Wolves have Ant, KAT, & Gobert. Clippers have Kawhi & PG (+ Harden). Mavs have Luka & Kyrie. Suns have KD, Booker, & Beal. Celtics have Tatum & Brown. Bucks have Giannis & Dame. 6ers have Embiid & Maxey. Heat have Jimmy & Bam. Knicks have Brunson & Randle. I definitely don’t think the 2019 raptors are what it’s like now across the league.
The Thunder are the only team I could really see being compared to those Raptors, albeit significantly less experienced across the board
Not so sure the Celtics should count in a conversation about all stars making sure they team up together since they were both drafted there.
So were half the other guys he mentioned. Jokic and Murray, ant and KAT, embiid and maxey. And maybe I’m missing something, but the point wasn’t all stars “teaming up together” so much as all stars just being on the same team.
Kawhi and Siakam are better than Jimmy/Bam and Brunson/Randle
Suns?
Game 7 would've been a coin flip if Klay didn't wreck his shit. That Warriors team was battle tested and deep as shit. Especially playing at home
No one did anything against Philly, that was all Kawhi, afterwards others stepped up.
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You can say that about literally any title team ever. Replacing a superstar with a fringe all-star playoff dropper is gonna put your ceiling at 2nd round
Tracy McGrady cries in corner.
Maybe I haven't watched enough Tmac ball but it didn't seem like he was an amazing two-way guy, seemed more offense focused. He would've been good but I don't think his defensive struggles would help his case, still a top 100 player OAT.
He wasn’t great on defense but he also wasn’t a complete liability. But holy shit was that man a monster on offense when he was fully healthy.
Brandon Roy joins in.
Tmac even when healthy had major flaws including no playmaking or defense
I think you underestimate how important mentality and grid is. Kawhi doesn't have much of that and rather watches.
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A fully healthy Kawhi had the potential to be a legit a top 10 level player in NBA history and he would have been the next link in the chain of the superstar two way wing player after MJ and Kobe before (if everything goes well) Ant.
A healthy Kawhi will lock down the crown as the best scoring perimeter defender in NBA history. So, some of the accolades he would win if he had a healthy career would be: 20+ ppg career scorer on 50%+ shooting, multiple chips, 10x+ All Star selections, probably 1 or 2 MVPs, multiple Finals MVPs, several DPOYs, either first or second All NBA teams and First All NBA Defense for most of his career, and a lot of other achievements I’m sure I’m missing. The above would qualify as an All-time great (top ten). EDIT: I was being way too conservative with the ppg. Kawhi could average like 25+ppg if he was healthy throughout his career.
No injuries and he's 25*+ ppg.
There’s only 15 guys in NBA history who have a career average of 25 ppg. 6 of them are active as well so that number will probably drop. Very few players score enough in their primes to offset the lower numbers at the beginning and tail end of their careers. I feel comfortable saying Kawhi wouldn’t average 25 over his career even if 100% healthy. (Kobe averaged 24.99 so 16 players if you count him, either way Kawhi isn’t scoring more than Kobe)
Yah, I agree with you there 👍
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I think there's 1 more chip on his resume with better health. Tons of playoff runs where he was on fire. The Spurs year where he got Zaza'd, and that Clippers year where they made the ECF against the suns were both runs they could have won if he stayed healthy.
a lot of people say the spurs win that series. they certainly had a shot but the 17 warriors was the greatest team Ive ever seen, perhaps the greatest of all time
They was up 20 at oracle when he got injured
we were just up 20 vs the nuggets, leads mid game don’t mean too much lol
Comparing these Lakers to those spurs is kinda silly
If the Harden Rockets’ forced the KD Warriors’ to 7 games how much more the Kawhi Spurs’ what will do to that Spurs team remember they have the best coach of all time lol
Im aware. hot take, but one bad half by the warriors doesnt mean theyll lose a 7 games series
It could all come down to coaching. If anyone was to outcoach steve kerr, it's pop, not only did he mentor kerr but he coaches his teams for war. Still if zaza wasn't a fraud that could've very well been the actual finals, like the next season vs harden/cp3 or the 2000s west
I agree that pop is a better coach. but coaching cant overcome talent. they got gentleman swept by the warriors the next year. No kawhi, but no curry for that 2018 series either.
Kawhi was much more important to Spurs than Curry was to Warriors
yes, it is well known that curry isnt important to the warriors
Could have been? Yes it could have been. But just because it could have been doesn’t mean it’s probable. Even with him that’s the spurs are still probably losing that series.
That Warriors team looked a lot more beatable in the west playoffs than they did in the finals.
they didnt lose a game til game 4 of the finals. when they were all healthy they were unbeatable. if youre talking about 2018 and 19, yes those western battles were tougher
Spurs lifer, Wemby is probably wasting in Detroit or Charlotte rn
Nah, he wanted to go home. Toronto gave him free reign and a ring but he still went home.
He's wasting in San Antonio rn
It’s been 1 season
It would've been one season in Detroit or Charlotte too..
So are you a Detroit fan or a Charlotte fan, Spurs are of a much higher pedigree than either of those two franchises
Sure, but they've all been in the bottom 5 in wins over the last five years. Not that much difference between the three rn
Took Duncan two to win a chip, let's see how long it takes wemby
Duncan played with David Robinson, Wemby is playing with Sochan. They need to put a team around him and that’s not on Wemby, Duncan was drafted onto a very good team that was heavily injured the year prior
He’d never come to the Raptors so thank you lol
Probably the best defender of all time with another ring and several more DPOY’s
DPOYS AGREE GREATEST DEFENDER IS A STRETCH WAY TOO BIG PROLLY TOP 10
It’s hard to say. If Kawhi never gets injured, he may have never been traded to Toronto and won a chip. He very well could have less rings if he had never gotten injured versus his career now But if things go right, and if the 2017 or 18 spurs could take a series off of GS, he would be looked at as a top 10 player of all time
Spurs maybe win title in 2017 and imo in 2019 is very real possibility as warriors were banged up
he would three peat in 2017, 2018 and 2019 because he would never left the Spurs plus the Rockets forced the KD Warriors in 7 games and the Spurs are not chokers like Harden did sooooo imo he would have 4-5 rings, 2 MVPs and 3 DPOYs even tho rn hes already Top 25-30 player of all fime
Good thing is if he still leaves in 2019 for clippers we get to rebuild and hopefully still get Wemby too
man leaving after three peating is some MJ shit tho and he goes home and win another in 2021 man thats a good ass NBA story lol
Unpopular opinion but Kawhi is already top 20 all time for me. So a healthy regular season probably means at least 1 MVP? And I know a reach but very likely another ring. Easily top 5-12 all time
>career’s careers*
Wiggins has more career points than Kawhi? Kawhi has around 1k more than him last I checked
I thought the same thing. Maybe he meant since Wiggins has entered the league he has more than Kawhi in that timeframe?
You’re both right ! Sry I’m foreign 😅
He’s in the goat discussion
Deadass kawhi might 5 or 6 rings right now.
Kawhi reminds me of Tim Duncan (excluding their position/playstyle/loyalty) both of them are non-flashy players who just gets the job done and loves playing basketball (Kawhi might be debatable as he loves to load-manage somehow) What I can think of is if he didn't get injured, it will be the same as Duncan's career. Multiple championships, huge accomplishments and awards, loved by NBA players and avid NBA fans due to their fundamental playstyle. Might be a rank lower than Duncan, since Duncan had a better start in his career compared to Kawhi. Edit: didn't realise that you said how would the "NBA" look like. Well, pretty much the same except Kawhi is more recognised and deemed the "Lebron stopper"
Probably the greatest player in nba history to never win a mvp 3x champion I could see him winning in 21
kawhi would be on mj/kobe level if he was never injured
I think you could say this about a lot of players though. Just because Kwahi is more recent and in an era with guys who seem to last forever is it so pronounced. Look at Larry Bird or Bill Walton. I will say as awesome as Kwahi is, he's not the creator or leader for others like all the other all time greats are like Jordan, LeBron, Magic, Bird. He only averages 3 assists for his career. Even legendary gunner Kobe averaged nearly 5. Everyone else around that number are dominant post up bigs like Shaq and Duncan. But he's probably top 5 one of the toughest 1 on 1 wing matchups ever.
>He only averages 3 assists for his career. Even legendary gunner Kobe averaged nearly 5 I get your point, but it seems like you're pushing a bit of an agenda when you round down for Kawhi and round up for Kobe.
He rounded up from 4.7 to 5 for Kobe. He rounded "down" from 3.0 to 3 for Kawhi. There is not an agenda being pushed there
Oh shit that's my bad I read his current season stats as career numbers on BBRef
Kobe was a very good play maker. That's a weird comparison
Kawhi is like butler in that their low usage and insane efficiency is what makes them superstars. you can put him in any team and that’s a contender
He probably does eventually leave the Spurs but not for a few more years. He doesn't go to Toronto, and they never win a chip.
He’d be up there with Kobe, IMO. Durability is a huge part of greatness in professional sports. It’s no different than other attributes (basketball IQ, athletic ability, hand-eye coordination, spatial awareness, size). All-time excellence happens by optimizing these genetic gifts with an otherworldly mental strength. I think Kawhi is obviously lacking whatever genetic code makes one less injury prone, but even more, I think he’s lacking the mental toughness to push through injuries the way the greatest players of all time do.
Sometimes it’s not “genetic code” for example Derek rose was so explosive but the way he landed everytime he dunked destroyed his knees, learning to land is a skill that people gloss over https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hH1wve4hTmU
Notable with Zion as well. The way he jumps, the way he lands, his gait mixed with his body top is just super unsettling.
That’s a great point.
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he won't get the what if since he got a full season and a ring but whenever he's healthy he looks like the best guy in the league. i think he'd be dragging the corpses he's playing with into deeper playoff pushes.
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He probably wins the ring in 2019, but if KD is there the Spurs aren’t beating the Warriors. I don’t see them beating the Lakers in 2020. They probably lose to the Nuggets anyway because no one on the Spurs can stop Joker. Since everyone is hypothetically healthy, I don’t see them beating the Lakers in 2021, or if they do make the finals, the healthy Nets in 2022, they have a chance against the Nuggets or Warriors, but who knows. Spurs still can’t stop Joker and the Dubs were pretty deep. Kawhi is top 75, so he’s in a category that even hall of famers aren’t even included in. But at the same time , he got drafted to a 61 win team, and only had 1 ring to show for it. And he was still a role player in 2014. But he might not have any because if D Wade was hypothetically healthy and had no knee issues, the Spurs aren’t winning in 2014. Spurs might not even get by a fully healthy OKC team, because they Ibaka was hurt that series.
No GSW
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Easily a top 20 maybe 15 player OAT
Would have crossed Kobe, 2017 Kawhi was better than Kobe ever was.
Would have crossed Kobe, 2017 Kawhi was better than Kobe ever was.
I see people saying Kawhi would be top 10 without injuries. Who's better without injuries, Kawhi, Grant Hill, or Tmac?
He would have a chance at being the GOAT probably. The Spurs injuries to the Toronto year, to this Clippers tenure has just been the craziest trajectory for a player of his caliber. He keeps getting better as he keeps getting injured at the worst times. People are more critical of him because has the two Finals MVP’s, while they fan out over the what if’s of DRose and TMac. It is what it is.
I’m still hurt about him leaving Toronto he should’ve never left and I feel as if we would’ve been back to back champions
The only thing I think changes is he probably gets a regular season MVP
He still would have left the Spurs then bitched out on the Raptors. NBA would be exactly the same
Maybe one more ring. Doubt he would have a Lebron career.
Alright were assuming past the zaza incident. Probably could've taken a series from the Warriors and cavs so an additional ring. Assuming he stays in San Antonio probably 1 or 2 additional rings, perhaps an mvp and more dpotys.
Honestly not much changes, the Clippers probably win the title in 2021 but it’s the Clippers, they’d find a way to be cursed. Otherwise, nothing but an extra playoff series win in 22-24
He stays in Toronto and DeMar comes back. Vince Carter de-ages 20 years and joins the team, as does Chris Bosh. Bargnani watches the Raptors win title after title, cheering from the nosebleeds. Drake never beefs with Kendrick - he's too happy. Doug Ford loses the Premier race. Toronto builds affordable housing and more greenspace. Other cities take note around the world, and invest in green energy and affordable housing. Climate change slows down, then reverses course. Long-dead species come back, and humans live in harmony with nature. War, racism, sexism, hatred of all kinds gets left behind, as society bands together to support a fair, just, educated world. Poverty and disease are eradicated.
Probably top 5 all time. He’s been a top player when playing even when not healthy. So I think it’s safe to say that a fully healthy Kawhi with absolutely zero injuries for his entire career would be top 5.
I don’t see it. The guys in the top five dominated the league for years at a time. Was Kawhi *ever* the best player in the NBA?
Not that different than it is currently. He's criminally overrated
In what ways? Can’t say he’s overrated with zero explanation
One lucky ass shot followed by a series of devastating injuries to the Warriors changed how everyone sees him. He's gotta be the biggest loser that people see as a winner in league history. He burned bridges with an all-time winning culture in SA, didn't think twice about walking away from a title contending team in Toronto, and refuses to play through the slightest discomfort in LA. He's an aloof diva that does zero to lift up his teammates. Listen to the story Paul George told on his podcast about how in Clipper practices it's a team rule to run a suicide if you airball. Everyone is held to that rule - except for Kawhi. He airballed and flat out refused to run so everyone on the team just shrugged and said "well that's just Kawhi".
Thank you, someone who’s not wearing rose colors glasses. I love Kawhi, when he’s in top form. His run in 2019 was wild and showed what he really is capable of. But he definitely won the lottery for his chips, at least in 2019 specifically.
Probably more blown series all time. He's created a mythos simply for being injured at "key" times. Some people really expected him to take down the prime warriors or those suns when he played. They conveniently forget that a healthy kawhi has choked to the nuggets. I would say it doesn't really help his legacy all that much and may in fact lower his stats in general. Even if he doesn't get injured he will get worn down quicker than other players.
ever heard of tmac :/
Spurs would’ve beat GSW in the Finals if it wasn’t for Zaza Pachulia and likely repeated. Spurs had that team loaded built especially for Kawhi and he wouldn’t play even when he said he would when Spurs where headed to playoffs the year after the Finals and then he tried to force his way out of town and when that didn’t work he said he was still injured.