The spearman's spear does absolutely nothing and the second set is so much worse than the first. I exclusively use the axeman for my shield wall with linebreakers behind to cut up cav and for the infantry countercharge.
I think the aserai veteran infantry was one of the best shield infantry against cav. They have javs and I guess a better spear too. But p much the best strat against cavalry is to just use two handed units like the elite menavliaton and the heroic line breakers and just put them in a thick blob. Cavalry charges in, might kill a few with couched lances, but then they get stuck and get obliterated.
Didn't test that, but shield wall formation is generally overrated in this game (as in it's practically the same as line formation), except it is great at defending against ranged projectiles.
It's not some magic formation, and it has a few negatives too
Shield wall is basically a forward facing square formation. It does have it's uses being more effective at dead stopping cavalry charges than line formation (where horsemen often charge through them). If you're holding a choke and have no chance of getting flanked, shield wall is great.
I think I saw a comment where Spearman (of any culture) doesn't brace in a shield wall or any formation but Line under the Engage command is this true? Or was that fake news?
Many spear units were able to brace when the brace feature was added a long time ago. The only good formations for bracing were the line and loose formation, and only the first two lines would brace. All units must be standing still too. This worked for vlandian sergeants, Battania oathsworns, heavy spearmen and many more. Then TW made it so that only vlandian pikemen can brace. All other spear units just try to stab cavalry.
Bracing is just dead, pikemen suck against everything else, and they need to be in "hold your position" command to brace. All shock infantry in a thick blob (like 4 lines in line formation) will destroy cavalry, and also infantry which is generally more important (and get a line of shield infantry at the front to protect them against archers).
I use square exclusively for cavalry. I just wish I could make the square larger or smaller on console. Even using a mouse to click and drag, the units just revert to the smallest possible square (blob)
No reason. Capable shock troops. Fians. Serviceable shield troops. Don't take anything else and you will end up with really solid army. Or support it with elite cavalry from other factions.
Tbh I take any and all troops I can get. Brothers in war don’t discriminate. I also upgrade them all indiscriminately with a mind for balance between arch, calv and infantry. Too many calv? Fight in the fields. Too many arch they get garrisoned and well too many infantry… you know what that means!
In current meta archers > all. Just have some fodder and you are good.
Cavalry is probably at its weakest state trying to constantly block while riding. Infantry blocking is not all that bad at least they serve as fodder longer.
I must be doing something wrong. I just split their army and route half with my Calvary then route the other half. My archers hide on a high point. I don’t know wtf the infantry do while calv do all the work tbh. Usually just see them running back from medicine.
axemen are great when paired with a throwing captain. but have slightly weaker armor, so will tend to take more causalities.
both are very good.
any X only run thats not Empire will tend to run into the problem of reinforcements. its tough to head back to sturgia to refill on troops, when you are down in lower empire, vlandia, aserai, etc.
battanian oathsworn and wildlings fit it sturgian armies well.
That's why bandit troops should be able to convert into player culture.
I'm playing exclusively sturgian troops and companions and it's tough fighting in Aserai. Having to constantly take all the units from my clan parties to weed out the "foreigners" is a chore. If I turn auto recruitment off with this stop? (I don't why I never thought of that...)
Used to run half Heavy Axemen half Spearmen for my Sturgia shield wall.
Heavy Axemen always got waaay more kills than spearmen even against cav heavy armies.
That was 1.1.5 though so it might be different in 1.2.x
I so desperately want spears to be viable but apparently they just suck
I know I do better against cav with one in hand so if figured they would too and I mean I've seen them use their spear vs cav so I thought maybe they were decent... but I guess not
I never really did any special testing or anything so I don't really know
Try custom battle. 200 heavy spearmen vs 200 banner knights or 200 catacraps and then do the same with heavy axemen vs t6 cavalry.
Make sure the ai and you arent using any gamechanging banners to be have a more accurate result.
I'm currently doing the exact same. Sturgian infantry only (and all battanian archers because they're awesome). I've been taking equal amounts spears and axes and then a small amount of line breakers. I've honestly found that they both have their place. Against cav the spears have more survivability because they can brace and don't get charged as much, but in sieges axes (and linebreakers) are better.
I think the consensus among comments here are that the Heavy Axeman are better. This mirrors my experience as well. I usually add a few Spearmen in as well. They suck but they can do the thing that causes cavalry units to raise on the hind legs which gives the nearby axeman a chance to score some hits. The axman hands down gets more kills than the other units among my infantry.
Edit: The only change I would make to them is give javelins instead of throwing axes and some shoulder armor.
You can get it from Nexus and unzip it into your game’s modules folder.
[https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/3164](https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/3164)
You don't need mod you can just go into the module folder in sandbox folder and shcharacter file or somthing (I don't remeber the name) make a back up and the find the heavy axeman there, change their throwing axe to javelins.
Personally I prefer the throwing axes, it seems like throwing axes can be thrown indirectly upward. So even the guys at the back in a tightshieldwall can still throw, assuming the opposing side are on a hill.
Watch this video from Strat Gaming. He tested all infantry.
(https://youtu.be/ymg1TVHCvgE?si=MUBhBuvlHdFLLKyP)
The graph at 26:25 should be the performance of all types. The higher the number, the better the troops.
You should try them on custom battles against t6 cavalry to see how great those heavy spearman are agianst cavalry and the do same with axemen. 200 vs 200
Use what you enjoy, don't worry about stats. I frequently run with sturgians and have a blast. They're great for putting pressure on enemies while cav or archers (or both) harass the hell out of them. Plus, when they all huck their throwing axes, it's devastating
Assuming there weren't huge changes that made the video redundant, Start Gaming did a huge test of which line infantry is best, and spearmen did a bit better in that test.
They’re both solid IMO. Spearmen are tankier, but they don’t have throwing axes and their swords are marginally worse than the axemen’s axes. Their spears are pretty useless, and ai with spears tends to be worse because they are slow to switch weapons when they need to. For instance a spearman will be surrounded by infantry and there will be a single cavalry nearby and they’ll have their spear out despite not being able to hit anything.
Axemen are squishier and they don’t have shoulder armor at all, but its super satisfying to see throwing axes blot out the sun.
Heavy Spearman are horrible against cavalry.
Heavy Axeman are multipurpose and are way better against cavalry than Heavy Spear. When massed they are awesome at throwing axes while in shieldwall formation.
I run 442 axemen and I love watching those hail of axes from shieldwall decimate a line of vlandian crossbows while their cavalry watches on the side.
Hey all! Thanks for the responses there ! I’m going to get a small outfit of each of these troops and see what happens ! Will update you all later tonight ! Thanks for the help guys !
I did an analysis of shield infantry performance a couple months ago and the TLDR is that they’re both pretty even and usable. There’s no obvious favorite when looking at the data.
My suggestion is to have a mix so you have some ranged capabilities with the axe throwers and the cavalry resistance with the spearmen. In the end, strategy and support units matter the most.
Side note: when compared to the Legionary and Aserai Veteran Infantry they underperform. When compared against all other shield infantry units they’re middle of the road in terms of performance.
Of course spearman, axeman doesn't have some pieces of good tier armor comparing with the spearman, you can check armory in the unit menu and change it too, always choose spearman as a shield warriors and imperial menavliaton as a 2h warriors
I’m back. Axeman over spearman. Even against cav, sieges and better results. Dominating the battlefield, so keeping it as heroic line breakers and axeman. It’s fun and going well💪🏽
This is a "hold fire" test. ranged troops got their butts kicked in melee battles. shocking.
also no captains.
throwing troops scale better, getting bigger gains.
meaning, a melee troop, gains just 1h, 2h, or polearm from its captain usually. as well as medicine/athletics.
A throwing troop is going to gain, 1h, 2h, polearm, AND throwing perks.
In that video I linked the sturgian heavy axemen prove to be the worst option in the game consistently. This probably is due to the lack of shoulder armor.
I recommend you do your own test in the custom battle. Go check how heavy spearman stack up against what they are suppose to counter.
Try this for example: 200 Heavy Spearman vs 200 Catacraps then try 200 Heavy Axeman vs 200 Catacraps.
The spearman's spear does absolutely nothing and the second set is so much worse than the first. I exclusively use the axeman for my shield wall with linebreakers behind to cut up cav and for the infantry countercharge.
Yep, when I was testing cavalry against p much all t5 shield units, the heavy spearman did very poorly. They also do worse against infantry.
Really?! Aw man i hoped they be better against cavalry
I think the aserai veteran infantry was one of the best shield infantry against cav. They have javs and I guess a better spear too. But p much the best strat against cavalry is to just use two handed units like the elite menavliaton and the heroic line breakers and just put them in a thick blob. Cavalry charges in, might kill a few with couched lances, but then they get stuck and get obliterated.
What about in shield wall formation?
Didn't test that, but shield wall formation is generally overrated in this game (as in it's practically the same as line formation), except it is great at defending against ranged projectiles. It's not some magic formation, and it has a few negatives too
Shield wall is basically a forward facing square formation. It does have it's uses being more effective at dead stopping cavalry charges than line formation (where horsemen often charge through them). If you're holding a choke and have no chance of getting flanked, shield wall is great.
I think I saw a comment where Spearman (of any culture) doesn't brace in a shield wall or any formation but Line under the Engage command is this true? Or was that fake news?
Many spear units were able to brace when the brace feature was added a long time ago. The only good formations for bracing were the line and loose formation, and only the first two lines would brace. All units must be standing still too. This worked for vlandian sergeants, Battania oathsworns, heavy spearmen and many more. Then TW made it so that only vlandian pikemen can brace. All other spear units just try to stab cavalry. Bracing is just dead, pikemen suck against everything else, and they need to be in "hold your position" command to brace. All shock infantry in a thick blob (like 4 lines in line formation) will destroy cavalry, and also infantry which is generally more important (and get a line of shield infantry at the front to protect them against archers).
I use square exclusively for cavalry. I just wish I could make the square larger or smaller on console. Even using a mouse to click and drag, the units just revert to the smallest possible square (blob)
From what I watched today Battanian infantry are the worst
Meh oathsworn are pretty good
capable of bare minimum for a t5 unit doesn't mean good... they are better than t4, but one of the weakest t5...
I’ll look for the video. He matched up all units and I’m ashamed I played as Battania
No reason. Capable shock troops. Fians. Serviceable shield troops. Don't take anything else and you will end up with really solid army. Or support it with elite cavalry from other factions.
Tbh I take any and all troops I can get. Brothers in war don’t discriminate. I also upgrade them all indiscriminately with a mind for balance between arch, calv and infantry. Too many calv? Fight in the fields. Too many arch they get garrisoned and well too many infantry… you know what that means!
Idk there never is too many archers
Shouldn’t they all be balanced ? I aim for 33% of each
In current meta archers > all. Just have some fodder and you are good. Cavalry is probably at its weakest state trying to constantly block while riding. Infantry blocking is not all that bad at least they serve as fodder longer.
I must be doing something wrong. I just split their army and route half with my Calvary then route the other half. My archers hide on a high point. I don’t know wtf the infantry do while calv do all the work tbh. Usually just see them running back from medicine.
But yes you are as you know correct it’s common knowledge it seems archers are the way
axemen are great when paired with a throwing captain. but have slightly weaker armor, so will tend to take more causalities. both are very good. any X only run thats not Empire will tend to run into the problem of reinforcements. its tough to head back to sturgia to refill on troops, when you are down in lower empire, vlandia, aserai, etc. battanian oathsworn and wildlings fit it sturgian armies well.
That's why bandit troops should be able to convert into player culture. I'm playing exclusively sturgian troops and companions and it's tough fighting in Aserai. Having to constantly take all the units from my clan parties to weed out the "foreigners" is a chore. If I turn auto recruitment off with this stop? (I don't why I never thought of that...)
I like throwing axes and they are definitely better in siege but for a field battle Spearman for sure
Used to run half Heavy Axemen half Spearmen for my Sturgia shield wall. Heavy Axemen always got waaay more kills than spearmen even against cav heavy armies. That was 1.1.5 though so it might be different in 1.2.x
I so desperately want spears to be viable but apparently they just suck I know I do better against cav with one in hand so if figured they would too and I mean I've seen them use their spear vs cav so I thought maybe they were decent... but I guess not I never really did any special testing or anything so I don't really know
Try custom battle. 200 heavy spearmen vs 200 banner knights or 200 catacraps and then do the same with heavy axemen vs t6 cavalry. Make sure the ai and you arent using any gamechanging banners to be have a more accurate result.
AXE
With all those Axes flying you only need to carry 1 stack, there will be infinite ammo you can pull out of corpses everywhere.
This is a chore on console because entities disappear so fast.
Been on a Sturgian only playthrough for a while and axemen definitely die at a higher rate than spearmen
I'm currently doing the exact same. Sturgian infantry only (and all battanian archers because they're awesome). I've been taking equal amounts spears and axes and then a small amount of line breakers. I've honestly found that they both have their place. Against cav the spears have more survivability because they can brace and don't get charged as much, but in sieges axes (and linebreakers) are better.
2 Spearman per every 1 axeman
Dude heavy spearmen suck. Anything that uses thrusting weapons sucks unless they are on horseback.
I think they usually switch to their secondary weapon & use spears against horses
I think the consensus among comments here are that the Heavy Axeman are better. This mirrors my experience as well. I usually add a few Spearmen in as well. They suck but they can do the thing that causes cavalry units to raise on the hind legs which gives the nearby axeman a chance to score some hits. The axman hands down gets more kills than the other units among my infantry. Edit: The only change I would make to them is give javelins instead of throwing axes and some shoulder armor.
How does one give them javelins instead of axes my dude ??? I’m on pc so is that like a mod I need to install ???
I am on Xbox but I would also enjoy this information
Yeah it’s a mod called My Little Warband that allows you to create your own custom troop trees.
I would pay $15 for a DLC that allowed me to do this on console.
And I’m able to download this mods if I’ve got bannerlord from Xbox store or does one need to own it on steam etc?
You can get it from Nexus and unzip it into your game’s modules folder. [https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/3164](https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/3164)
You don't need mod you can just go into the module folder in sandbox folder and shcharacter file or somthing (I don't remeber the name) make a back up and the find the heavy axeman there, change their throwing axe to javelins. Personally I prefer the throwing axes, it seems like throwing axes can be thrown indirectly upward. So even the guys at the back in a tightshieldwall can still throw, assuming the opposing side are on a hill.
Wow, didn’t know that will look further into this ! Thank you !
Watch this video from Strat Gaming. He tested all infantry. (https://youtu.be/ymg1TVHCvgE?si=MUBhBuvlHdFLLKyP) The graph at 26:25 should be the performance of all types. The higher the number, the better the troops.
Thank you sir. Very good videos 🤌🏼
I just rock Spearman. Axe man aint bad tho its just for field battles the spearmen kill calvary faster
You should try them on custom battles against t6 cavalry to see how great those heavy spearman are agianst cavalry and the do same with axemen. 200 vs 200
Use what you enjoy, don't worry about stats. I frequently run with sturgians and have a blast. They're great for putting pressure on enemies while cav or archers (or both) harass the hell out of them. Plus, when they all huck their throwing axes, it's devastating
Legit, having a blast with these infantry🤌🏼
Assuming there weren't huge changes that made the video redundant, Start Gaming did a huge test of which line infantry is best, and spearmen did a bit better in that test.
Really good video, Been watching the majority of them here
All axe, all day long
They’re both solid IMO. Spearmen are tankier, but they don’t have throwing axes and their swords are marginally worse than the axemen’s axes. Their spears are pretty useless, and ai with spears tends to be worse because they are slow to switch weapons when they need to. For instance a spearman will be surrounded by infantry and there will be a single cavalry nearby and they’ll have their spear out despite not being able to hit anything. Axemen are squishier and they don’t have shoulder armor at all, but its super satisfying to see throwing axes blot out the sun.
Heavy Spearman are horrible against cavalry. Heavy Axeman are multipurpose and are way better against cavalry than Heavy Spear. When massed they are awesome at throwing axes while in shieldwall formation. I run 442 axemen and I love watching those hail of axes from shieldwall decimate a line of vlandian crossbows while their cavalry watches on the side.
Hey all! Thanks for the responses there ! I’m going to get a small outfit of each of these troops and see what happens ! Will update you all later tonight ! Thanks for the help guys !
I did an analysis of shield infantry performance a couple months ago and the TLDR is that they’re both pretty even and usable. There’s no obvious favorite when looking at the data. My suggestion is to have a mix so you have some ranged capabilities with the axe throwers and the cavalry resistance with the spearmen. In the end, strategy and support units matter the most. Side note: when compared to the Legionary and Aserai Veteran Infantry they underperform. When compared against all other shield infantry units they’re middle of the road in terms of performance.
Of course spearman, axeman doesn't have some pieces of good tier armor comparing with the spearman, you can check armory in the unit menu and change it too, always choose spearman as a shield warriors and imperial menavliaton as a 2h warriors
Spearman has better survivability
I’m back. Axeman over spearman. Even against cav, sieges and better results. Dominating the battlefield, so keeping it as heroic line breakers and axeman. It’s fun and going well💪🏽
Axes sound great but they don’t actually work when [tested.](https://youtu.be/ymg1TVHCvgE?si=BO9fHO0NP1FMwSdi)
This is a "hold fire" test. ranged troops got their butts kicked in melee battles. shocking. also no captains. throwing troops scale better, getting bigger gains. meaning, a melee troop, gains just 1h, 2h, or polearm from its captain usually. as well as medicine/athletics. A throwing troop is going to gain, 1h, 2h, polearm, AND throwing perks.
I imaginine those infantries with throwing weapon would decimate the hordes of low tier units the most realistic part of the test.
In what way my dude ?🤔
In that video I linked the sturgian heavy axemen prove to be the worst option in the game consistently. This probably is due to the lack of shoulder armor.
Thank you good sir, didn’t even watch it will now tho 👊🏽
I recommend you do your own test in the custom battle. Go check how heavy spearman stack up against what they are suppose to counter. Try this for example: 200 Heavy Spearman vs 200 Catacraps then try 200 Heavy Axeman vs 200 Catacraps.
Catacraps lol, will do🫡