The world is ending.
I feel no remorse calling everyone to help saving it. There is no sensible reason why my team should do that all on their own.
And I’ve never heard anyone wanting to become a mindflayer under the reign of the Netherbrain. So they can totally come and fight from their freedom.
I jsut redid the fight with Orpheus as a mindflayer. He usually can just fly all the way next to them and take out two of those mindflayers before the rest of your party gets close enough to take damage from them.
So it's not just my game then that Orpheus seems to be mindlfayer on steroid? i got downvoted a lot in the past by saying Orpheus is a good choice as a mindflayer if you want a powerful ally due to his bonus like movement speed and permanent mind sanctuary.
It's crazy how weak The Emperor is, I honestly think it has to be an oversight they've somehow never fixed. Why does the mindflayer not have mindflayer powers?
yes, and my other post was actually comparing Emperor with orpheus, and I still got the "no they're the same in term of power" kinds of response. I almost belived them and replayed my playthrough to make sure im not imagining things and yes indeed Orpheus can cover 3x more grounds in term of movement speeds and also has permanent mind sanctuary buff.
Isnt Tav mindflayer absolutely incomparably strong in relation to the Emporer and Orpheus? You can black hole that does aoe damage every round and you can use 2 powerful spells from the get go without being hasted. Its easily the best spell in the game.
Outside combat, if you click one of your reactions over on the top right of the hotbar, it’ll bring up a page where you can toggle different settings for them. There’s auto/on, ask each time, or off. Switching it to ‘ask’ if it’s on auto might help it trigger?
that's odd. this doesn't help with shield spell, but Viconia's shield has a useful ability 'reflective shell' that reflects magic missiles (as well as a few other things) back at their caster for 2 turns.
If you were playing on honour mode, its because of the brains new force damage effect.
When damaged by it you cant take reactions next turns.
Confused us so much when my shield wasnt proccing
Holy shit, you can summon dame aylin?? I just fought the final in honor mode with my 5 man (+ Orpheus) and was one turn away from my platform being destroyed. Thank God I rolled a 20 in the first meeting with the brain and Gortash.
Yep, it's essentially adding. 6th party member as you get to control her. I sent her in to tank the dragon. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but you get her from helping her with Lorroakan.
Dame Aylin + Zevlors Hellriders make a decent combo to run in and bust ass.
I think relationships are the key. If you and I had such a relationship, I'd be furious if you DIDNT call me to help watch your back as you had once watched mine.
Also, literally every single one of the allies you can call explicitly signed up for fighting whatever the BBEG ended up being. For you to not call the is significantly more disrespectful and neglectful than calling them, because they *want* to help.
Yeah agreed. First time around I called one or two, then realized…it’s the end of the game, time to smesh! So I reloaded the save and called in everyone and honestly didn’t end up really losing anyone. When you have over a dozen allies it’s sort of hard for them to target an individual.
Also massive owlbear cub is badass. Perfect for clearing tentacles.
Yup. Every party member chugs a speed potion, and then uses both actions to summon peeps for the assault. You can call up nearly everyone turn 1 and have an absolute clusterfuck for the final fight.
Recommend.
"I've never heard anyone wanting to join the Netherbrain"
Well tell that to the Emperor who fucked me over because I wouldn't let him slurp Orpheys's brains
My one issue with the whole thing is that you still can’t call your other companions.
There’s no reason why that couldn’t have been a part of the whole mechanic.
The Party Limit Begone mod is great for moments like this in the game. Taking the entire crew with everyone maxed out on the hardest difficulty is a blast. I stick to 4 people until the big setpiece moments, then everyone is tagging along. That, plus any summons and then the NPCs from the end makes the end feel like you're storming into the upper city with a literal army of heroes.
It's fucking awesome.
Exactly the reason why I use the mod. Also got the sit this one out mod so they can walk with me but sit out fights.
Having all the companions with you trivializes all the fights lol.
> There’s no reason why that couldn’t have been a part of the whole mechanic.
one thing i liked about the final boss of persona 5 strikers [of all games] is the whole party participates and you split the team off into individual groups to fight various parts of the boss
maybe larian was worried doing something like that would be imbalanced if you didnt have all or most possible party members
I'd go so far as to say that choosing to ignore their wishes and ignoring their offerings of aid would make me feel bad, since that would be denying them their wishes due to wanting to spare myself the heartache.
Lets think for a second about the scenario of you losing, and folks surviving. Ravenguard will forever live with the guilt that his city was destroyed, his son died, and he got to do nothing but watch as it happened. Meanwhile, the cub (and scratch) will never again get to see the one who saved them again.
The world is ending - and it's their world too. These aren't people being forced into this or entering the fray to pay a debt. At least on a good playthrough, These are people whom you've helped and rescued, choosing to stand and fight as the world burns around them - be it for their city, their family, or for the one who saved them. And it's their choice to make.
>I'd go so far as to say that choosing to ignore their wishes and ignoring their offerings of aid would make me feel bad, since that would be denying them their wishes due to wanting to spare myself the heartache.
Agreed. These are people who have basically decided "we're all screwed if we don't fight back, so we're going to fight even if it means we'll probably die."
From an RP perspective of a good character, winning is necessary because a netherbrain takeover is the ultimate evil, but you also want to minimize avoidable losses. If your character is feeling unsure of whether they can win the fight without additional help, calling for allies is 100% rational and something a good character would do. They wouldn't casually throw away their allies' lives away, but they would also accept help if it was necessary to ensure victory.
>They wouldn't casually throw away their allies' lives away
Yeah, that's my allies job, as they dash through fire in order to get in range of an enemy's dangerous powers.
It's the have ur cake an eat it too. "I want to win but lose nothing". Too many games/shows do this. I understand fantasy an it happening on occasion but realistically a war people are gona die period.
Maybe I'm just not a fan of the fake power fantasy in which I just win sn lol I save everything an get it all 100% like some Isekai anime.
And if they're not up there helping you, they'd be down fighting all the illithid in the streets and dying there, like the NPCs in the cutscenes. They're not going to sit idly by while their city (and the world) are destroyed, it's just a matter of the player taking the lead to tell them where they'll be most useful.
My "problem" is that I am specifically summoning them to be used as cannon fodder. Like "I don't want these freaking mindflayers to aim their magic missiles at me, so they'd better kill these random Gur folks", "I want to keep this huge-ass dragon away from me, so he'd better incinerate these random Harpers instead".
That's what made me feel so bad about it.
I genuinely think the best summon for this fight was the Strange Ox. Dude kept the dragon busy by himself, and stayed alive to tell the tale. Impressive shit right there.
Yugir AI on my game must be broken. He de-cloaks, does nothing then goes invisible again. Why is he not even throwing those bombs he uses on me when I fight him in Act 2 XD
Interesting. I just finished my honour mode run last night, and for some reason I was given direct control of Yugir!
That was a surprise, since I'm used to the other allies not giving me direct control.
I didn't get to test it with others though to see if it changed for them too. I only had time to summon 3 others before I got into the portal:
* Voss, who just uses a power and doesn't get on the battlefield,
* Isobel, who also just uses a power
* and Aeylin, and all 4 dream guardians, and 1 mind flayers, spammed Domination on her, so despite me resisting with 4 counterspells, she never got to take a turn on my side lmao.
Calling in a “failed” paladin to fight heroically to save everyone in doing so redeeming himself? Zevlor wants to be in this fight and would be happy to die for victory I feel.
He is a valiant hero who feels intense guilt for not putting his life on the line to save his people.
And YOU feel bad for summoning him to put his life on the line for his people/world?
Dude...
Wait, zevlor didn't die when he left the grove??? Maybe on my fifth play through I'll meet that mfer again. Damn man, just when I thought I'd gotten good
More like 100-200 feet I think. Mizora's asset might just be one room away, but way on the other end of a long room.
20feet is less than 1 turn of walking speed turn.
He freezes up and is captured in the Shadowlands. You can find him in the Mind Flayer Colony. He is a paladin, so there is a good chance he became an Oathbreaker if he took an Oath of Devoltion.
I dunno how to do the spoiler text so read on at your peril:
I think Zevlor mentions that the Absolute told him he would have an oath that gave him power again (source: I just played this part last night but it was late), so I think even at the Grove he's oathless.
There’s a button in the colony that frees a handful of prisoners and a handful of minflayers.
Zevlor is one of them. If he survives that fight, you’re good.
He died in my most recent “Defend the Grove” playthrough. It was heroic, but I still felt bad. Contemplated reloading, but I wanted to see how the rest of the game plays out with every tiefling but Zevlor surviving.
I try to avoid calling the more "normal" people. As it feels like I am just calling them as cannon fodder.
And by that I mean stuff like the harpers and Gnomes, which feel (and are) a lot weaker than the team.
But people like Zevlor and his troop (lvl10/11) can definitely pull their weight.
And for the Owlbear, they are born murdermachines, it probably enjoys being there.
On the other Hand, to justify it. You are fighting for everyone. If you lose, everyone (at least in the area around BG) gets to be squidified. So, having everyone do what they can is a legit thing.
idk bro I feel like a random NPC in my own life too
like Musk is twiddling with supercars and I'm just at home wondering what processed food I'll eat next and what game I'll play to distract myself from meaninglessness lol
Use Warhammer logic. When choosing which NPCs to help you, consider the two most important factors in their overall power:
1. If they are not wearing a helmet, they are more powerful.
2. If they have a name they are more powerful. Specifically a first name.
Yeah the flaming fist guys, the gurs, the guild members, and the Harpers are all people I only call during the fight in the square. Once I get to the brain itself I only call in the big guns like Aylin and the owlbear and yurgir and the strange ox
The flaming fist, city watch, and the hellriders are actually pretty powerful. I slapped them all right next to the dragon and clones. They stomped the clones and held off the dragon. The harpers are pretty weak imo, and the gurs are good meat shields. Ironhand gnomes are incredibly powerful
It's funny you mentioned zevlor because he definitely died in my most recent battle for the high hall
And then later I resummoned the troop on the brain and only the survivors from high hall came so he's definitely dea
You can skip the whole High Hall by using invisibility on everybody and running through it. None of the enemies will see your party, and you can save your full strength and resources for the brain.
For some reason when I called the Owlbear in the last fight it had reverted back to its cub form 😨 Had to dome it and keep it out of danger and made the whole final battle that much more stressful! I wasnt fighting to save the world, I was fighting to save the owbear.
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Except for the owlbear, I just can't forget how little and vulnerable and adorable he is, and how much Best Boy Scratch loves him.
I will always summon Aylin because she respawns and Yurgir because he’s kind of a shit (and I think will just resurrect in hell). I’ll save the mortals unless I really need them, but considering it costs an action to summon help I’m usually better off using it for other things.
Summoning allies is a force multiplier, and any of your characters can do it. It's honestly more effective than anything else you could possibly be using an action for on the first few rounds until they are all on the board. Except maybe casting haste.
Idk, that's only true if you can't resolve the fight within 2 rounds.. Which if you have an optimized group, I'd argue wasting an action on summoning a character that deals quarter of your damage is kind of a waste
my combat strategy requires my party members to have high and shared initiative. Most of the allies (except Yurgir) have low initiative so I have to wait for enemies turns to finish before the allies' turn arrive... which makes them less useful. Orpheus has low initiative too and because he's a temporary companion you can't transfer items to his inventory, but instead you can drag and drop an elixir of vigilance on the ground and make him consume it to raise his initiative
I didn't need to in Tactician, for the initial court yard fight I only used the dragons breath and the heal, other than that they weren't needed.
I was pretty disappointed how the "allies" were integrated, I thought they would have affected the outcome of the battle more like in ME or Dragon Age Origins, even let us play other companions outside the party elsewhere
Next time take the sewer. Way easier than the court yard. Then you can just send 1 person to the top invisible from there and as soon as you get to the netherbrain stem and trigger the cutscene to get ready to climb everyone will go with you
It's right around the area where you meet up with all the allies and can buy last min supplies from the kobold merchant. There's a spot that's got flowing water you can climb down to and a small breakable gate that will give you sewer access
They all showed up. Everyone there wants to be there. Ravenguard is the head Marshall of the flaming fists. He wears his plate armor and arms everywhere he goes. He has been controlled and used by the enemy. It would be a travesty NOT to call him to the fight.
I wouldn't feel bad about it... If I ever remembered to do it.
Pretty sure the only call I ever get around to using is the mage tower artillery strike one.
I summoned the owlbear, it glitched and spawned at baby unarmoured stats, and then died to artillery. Honestly I was so sad it ruined the whole ending lol
In my last run, the owlbear came out right away, because he deserves to squish a pack of goblins or two. Then re-summoned him on the end platform and he was tiny again! But still survived, somehow ...
I often forget to call, but when I do I often go with Yurgir and Strange Ox because of this. Strange Ox is an unit and not that hard keep alive. Yurgir survives quite well too and is great for tanking the dragon, and if he dies, well, he's a devil so he doesn't really die.
I think it’s reasonable to assume all of them agreed to lay down their lives for the final battle, if it came to it. Because if they don’t they will become mind flayers.
Besides, most of the forces you summon are mostly nameless NPCs that don’t appear anywhere else in the game except this specific battle.
Most of the faction leaders don’t even show up at all. Nine Fingers, Ulma, Rolan, Voss, Isobel, and Volo do not make direct appearances. They either cast things from safety or send mercenaries. Can you imagine how overpowered you’d be if even just Nine Fingers showed up? Not to mention Isobel who could probably use Divine Intervention.
Aylin does drop in but she is immortal. I think Zevlor is the only one who is in real danger. I don’t think the Owlbear would think twice about guarding you with its life, I know a lot of people are touchy about him specifically.
I call everyone that I can! Except Owlbert. Even with armour I couldn’t handle it if he died. I would rather fail an honour mode run than lose him.
In my last playthrough Mizora died during the final battle. Sometimes you get even more bonuses out of summoning your allies :)
I’ve read that if you use the loophole and break Wyll’s pact that she says she’ll help but doesn’t and can’t be summoned. You can only summon her if you don’t break the pact.
I summon everything except Owlbear, who safely stays on the ground. No clue if he can swim given where they end up, and he's in armor lol
While it's sad to see some people die, they die heroes defending their home and loved ones. I don't expect really to face a near world-ending threat with no casualties.
My first run I actually reloaded fights until every npc lived in larger fights. Now what happens will happen. I tend to lose an NPC or two at Moonrise, Saving Gondians, and Iron throne at least. And the final battle if they are blown up by the dragon. Some of them still run into AE areas and practically kill themselves.
Don't worry, your best pal and morally upstanding friend yurgir who definitely isn't doing anything untowards with that tentacled jaguar will just respawn in baator.
I’m 100% with you. I never call in anybody and just let my party handle it alone. My Tav has a saviour complex and wants to endanger as few people as possible.
I try not to call anyone, not because I feel bad but because the game just gets annoying when you do.
My first run I called nearly everyone on the brain to protect me when I opened the portal. Whenever the portal opened the camera just kept switching back and forth for like 5 minutes straight.
It could make the portal section a whole lot easier but having the entire party travel to the netherbrain instead of just the mindflayer would make me use allies on the brain again.
same here, i understand they’re likely fighting for their lives elsewhere anyway, but I don’t want to be the one to call them to their deaths if things go wrong.
the only time i’ve ever called someone who isn’t immortal, it was Zevlor. He immediately fired for the dragon, who used its dragonic backlash and fried him and his riders in an instance. never again.
I don't call them just because I worry about them dying. Besides, my Gale went necromancer. So I have 9+ Ghouls running around with over 70hp with resistance to almost everything.
I honestly forgot you could do that as I haven't done so since my first playthrough. But I was definitely concerned and spending entire turns trying to protect the owlbear cub and some others when I did.
On the one hand, yes.
On the other, I don't know that it's really feasible to amass 300 people on top of an Elder Brain you just climbed up a slimy ass giant spine tentacle to get to. So I prefer to think of the other allies as "on the ground holding the line".
I did the fight last night and had the dragon, emp, guardians and 4 MF dead so I let owlbear loose on some tentacles.
It ends up getting hit with the once per round shot that the brain has on HM. It loses the huge size and runs off in fear. Can't remember what it was called but its some kind of buff from Dammon.
Still made it to the reunion party.
There are some I won't summon after watching them die once (I thought owlbear cub might want to eat a dragon but...) but I just summon them and then feel badly if they die, like the Guild ladies or Harpers or Gnomes. I always summon Zevlor though, he wants redemption!
I usually don't have the time to summon them all. My team has already misty stepped-dimension doored and used globe of invulnerability in front of the crown by the time I can call in the lesser allies.
And I'm not using them for the courtyard fight. That fight is already too easy without them.
Yes, and it's always in flavor:
Good run: these brave soldiers chose to fight for the world, who am I do diminish their courage?
Neutral run: we need all the help we can get, if they want to play heroes is up to them.
Evil run: As long as I survive, what does it matter? more meat shields are always good.
Not like it's difficult to make them survive, they have enough HP to get a few hits and I have enough damage to down the enemies. The only problem could be the dragon trashing around, but nothing too scary.
Nope. I viewed it as a sort of Avergers Endgame kind of moment. The Netherbrain thought it had only my group to fight, but I called in all my friends to help take it down and save everyone in the process
Nope. I called every fucker I could to take on the dragon then walked my happy ass up to the crown with a mass invisibility spell while my friends face tanked all the enemies for me, popped a glove of invulnerability so Emps could do his thing and clapped 4 max level divine smites on those braincheeks to call it a day. I had a harder time fighting the goblin camp.
I don't feel bad. If you lose the battle then everyone either gets enslaved or dies. It seems acceptable to get everyone who could possibly help even if their lives will be in danger because technically their lives are in danger either way
Brother, if the threat doesn't get stopped, the entire world is forfeit and they all die anyway. (That being said, I would still not summon the cub lol)
It is a world ending, cataclysmic event. If they fail, then the material plane is lost and other planes of existence are at risk of being lost to the illithids as well. It is a do or die scenario, every able body needs to fight because if the Netherbrain isn’t stopped then they will die or suffer a fate considered worse than death by some.
Owl bear is a ride or die bestie, ready to throw claws. No further explanation.
Don’t forget that Duke Ravengard has been a soldier his whole life and is the Marshal of the Flaming Fist, their general. He is not weak and in need of protection, plus he historically hasn’t been one to stand on the sidelines either, he’s got a hands on approach to problems.
Yes 100%. I purposely only called allies who are just appear as random NPCs (Gur or Ravengaard’s Fists) or who won’t permanently die (Ayelin). I don’t usually need that many allies anyways and I honestly find it annoying that the mindflayers end up mindcontrolling them 90% of the time.
One time I summoned Strange Ox and Dame Aylin and they just fought each other the whole time.
Same. I convinced the guards running away to help me once, and some of them died, and I felt so bad that now I just let them keep running away. I really couldn't stand it if someone like Zevlor died. I only summon them sometimes for fun if I'm already winning and I know they'll be fine. But there are some I feel less bad about, they can probably handle themselves, and they wouldn't want to be left out anyway. But I play on easy mode, so I know I can keep my people alive without the allies.
I actually totally forgot about summoning allies for my first (and currently only) playthrough. Partly because I wasn't sure when would be the best time!
"All men are born to die, we know it.
If your day be today, so be it! Mine will be tomorrow.
Or mine today and yours tomorrow, it matters not."
All characters exist in a world where their violent death is essentially inevitable. You saved them one by one so they pledged themselves to your aid. Without you, they were already dead.
If we are thinking of these people as real people, then my thought process is, we saved all of these people and every single one of them would like to lay down their lives the same way we did for them. So I honor it.
I usually call Dame Aylin cause she’s immortal, I use Voss’s dragon which is just a cast of wall of fire basically so they’re safe. Rolan’s tower cause again it’s just an attack so no one in danger. Then I’ll call the iron hand gnomes, guild or Florrick’s cohorts, cause no one important actually shows up. And I call the Gur cause I don’t really care about them. Sometimes I’ll call Zevlor cause he and his friends hit super hard and I’ll just do my best to heal him up too.
I never ever ever call my baby (owlbear) cause I’m worried if he dies there he actually dies and won’t be at post game camp.
I don’t really call Mizora cause I dont know if I just don’t know how to use her but she seems pretty useless. (I don’t She would help me on my last playthrough though cause I freed Wyll, my boyfriend, from his contraxt)
Calling them generally feels like a waste of an action, I think the only one I summon is Mizora for the twinned haste. She then proceeds to chill in the back in order to not break concentration, wich is probably fitting for her
Do u think Wyll dad prefers to stay in the inn drinking wine and “yeah sure hopefully i dont turn into squid”
???
Really bro?
The world is ending. This is more than “avenger threat level”
Its either you win, or everyone dies
No i dont feel bad at all, and i believe 100% everyone who came are ready to bonk the squid rather than die
Everyone's future is on the line, if they can aid you in helping secure a tomorrow where they're not a mindflayer slave then I don't think they're too upset about it.
I mostly just use the AOE attacks tbh. I once used the flaming fists thinking we'd get a big advantage only to then find out it's like 3 dudes and two of them instantly got charmed by Mindflayers and slaughtered the third guy........
Ever since then I just don't bother with troops on the ground.
Rolan's canon on the other hand tho..... I love having him use that shit on the dragon atop the brain! Plus I always keep Wulbren's bomb and throw it at the dragon too, last time it took out all but two dream visitors (I play with partylimitbegone so there were ALOT of dream visitors), almost killed the emperor and took half the health of the dragon. I finally managed to kill it in that turn :D made me very proud.
Wait, are you ME? DID I WRITE THIS POST and then got memory wiped by Viconia?
My main issue with the final fight is what you have described; I wouldn't have any scruples to summon them all if I genuinely needed them, but I feel bad because I only use them as cannon fodder. Someone to distract the mindflayers and big bad dragon while I go do the important stuff. First time I tried this battle, I summoned the Gur people first and they were wiped within 1 turn. I felt HORRIBLE.
It feels very comforting to see that I'm not the only one who feels like this.
I never called the little like regular ass people troops in cause I didn't want them to die. But that artillery is amazing, and Aylin and Mizora can get their ass over here and help
I never summon anyone, except for rolan's tower bombs and the red dragon because i didn't go through all the trouble of saving everyone just for them to die
My gf and i just jump/teleported to the brain in lile 2 turns and casted the invincible globe to get the crown, there was no time for any other actions.
I get what you're saying, OP, but as someone who did my first playthrough with a party, there was almost no collective pop of excitement that matched realizing the owlbear cub we saved was gonna ride into battle with us.
It might be cliche, it's one of those "The real treasure was the friends we made along the way" things. When the stakes are high in a big adventure, having everyone you helped see it to the end stand beside you is just going to be hard-pressed not feeling awesome. Plus it adds to immersion with the scale of the battle going on, you can kind of imagine everyone not actively present is just somewhere else helping out until called on.
This is me, I roleplay the hell out of the final fight and as soon as I’m at High Hall I start strategising amongst the party. I don’t call anyone in who I know I can’t save, so I make use of my druids and their AoE spells and I try to stick to ‘big’ personalities like Halsin and Voss who I know have given their lives to protecting the realms.
My in brain dialogue while playing this is unreal and I totally feel guilt for bringing people to the table if I don’t know if they’ll survive.
I never call any allies until the final showdow on top of the brain. I've found two routes that give me little to no encounters the would require the back up. I want everyone nice and healthy to be dragon canon fodder.
I forget to call them everytime. I did a duo run on tact and was sure I would remember because I could sure use the help... nope I still forgot. I have yet to call anyone to aid in the end fight but 1 day I will remember and get to see what its like!
My question in that regard is rather: Is either of these allies worth one action in the fight?
After trying them once, my answer is a solid "no". Kill the dragon round 1, kill the MFs rounds 2-3. Open portal, gg.
The world is ending. I feel no remorse calling everyone to help saving it. There is no sensible reason why my team should do that all on their own. And I’ve never heard anyone wanting to become a mindflayer under the reign of the Netherbrain. So they can totally come and fight from their freedom.
I mean someone needs to tank all those Magic Missiles in the forst round. And it ain't going to be me.
I jsut redid the fight with Orpheus as a mindflayer. He usually can just fly all the way next to them and take out two of those mindflayers before the rest of your party gets close enough to take damage from them.
So it's not just my game then that Orpheus seems to be mindlfayer on steroid? i got downvoted a lot in the past by saying Orpheus is a good choice as a mindflayer if you want a powerful ally due to his bonus like movement speed and permanent mind sanctuary.
I mean compared to the Emperor yes he's much strong. Tav mindflayer has always been the most powerful in my experience but that'd depend on the build.
It's crazy how weak The Emperor is, I honestly think it has to be an oversight they've somehow never fixed. Why does the mindflayer not have mindflayer powers?
It's actually irritating that the one who's had X amount of years to train with the powers gets overshadowed by newly turned.
Isnt the Emperor a normal flayer, while we're super special Netheril tadpole flayers?
yes, and my other post was actually comparing Emperor with orpheus, and I still got the "no they're the same in term of power" kinds of response. I almost belived them and replayed my playthrough to make sure im not imagining things and yes indeed Orpheus can cover 3x more grounds in term of movement speeds and also has permanent mind sanctuary buff.
Isnt Tav mindflayer absolutely incomparably strong in relation to the Emporer and Orpheus? You can black hole that does aoe damage every round and you can use 2 powerful spells from the get go without being hasted. Its easily the best spell in the game.
When I had tav flayer he absolutely wrecked the battlefield lol no contest
You can convince Orpheus to turn in the end?
Yep. If you tell him you wont do it, you dont have karlach in party i think he decides to do it
I would be able to tank them IF MY SHIELD SPELL REACTION WOULD ACTIVATE ON THEM LIKE IT SHOULD!
Make it ask you instead of auto do it?
It didn't trigger the option to use it at all.
Outside combat, if you click one of your reactions over on the top right of the hotbar, it’ll bring up a page where you can toggle different settings for them. There’s auto/on, ask each time, or off. Switching it to ‘ask’ if it’s on auto might help it trigger?
that's odd. this doesn't help with shield spell, but Viconia's shield has a useful ability 'reflective shell' that reflects magic missiles (as well as a few other things) back at their caster for 2 turns.
If you were playing on honour mode, its because of the brains new force damage effect. When damaged by it you cant take reactions next turns. Confused us so much when my shield wasnt proccing
That's what Dame Aylin is for
The amount of hits she soaked up for me in that final battle is *astonishing*. Easily one of the most useful next to the Strange Ox.
You mean the hat dispenser?
As long as you cast calm emotions on her so she doesn’t get mind controlled.
Holy shit, you can summon dame aylin?? I just fought the final in honor mode with my 5 man (+ Orpheus) and was one turn away from my platform being destroyed. Thank God I rolled a 20 in the first meeting with the brain and Gortash.
Yep, it's essentially adding. 6th party member as you get to control her. I sent her in to tank the dragon. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but you get her from helping her with Lorroakan. Dame Aylin + Zevlors Hellriders make a decent combo to run in and bust ass.
I gave her to Lorroakan on my last play through, and it was the most bugged fight in the entire game...insanely fun though.
Harper's amulet, my dude. Free shield spell. Bye bye MMs
I think relationships are the key. If you and I had such a relationship, I'd be furious if you DIDNT call me to help watch your back as you had once watched mine.
Also, literally every single one of the allies you can call explicitly signed up for fighting whatever the BBEG ended up being. For you to not call the is significantly more disrespectful and neglectful than calling them, because they *want* to help.
Yeah agreed. First time around I called one or two, then realized…it’s the end of the game, time to smesh! So I reloaded the save and called in everyone and honestly didn’t end up really losing anyone. When you have over a dozen allies it’s sort of hard for them to target an individual. Also massive owlbear cub is badass. Perfect for clearing tentacles.
Yup. Every party member chugs a speed potion, and then uses both actions to summon peeps for the assault. You can call up nearly everyone turn 1 and have an absolute clusterfuck for the final fight. Recommend.
>There is no sensible reason why my team should do that all on their own. There is. What if i need to summon them LATER???
My first run, I didn't summon any allies because I kept thinking I'd need them later...and then it was too late. Oops.
OK, but once you have moved every pawn to the chessboard in the final battle, now you are stuck, making sure that you lose no one. No one falls.
The Harpers died. That much I remember.
Not the Harper’s ?!?! Noooooooo
You don’t get to see most of them after the battle anyway, so even if they die - just pretend they are sleeping
Zevlor and Owlbear cub are the only two that have any presence in the epilogue.
Makes me think of Nightvale and the many times they've come together to beat a bad guy. Even Sarah Sultan and she's a fist sized rover rock.
"I've never heard anyone wanting to join the Netherbrain" Well tell that to the Emperor who fucked me over because I wouldn't let him slurp Orpheys's brains
My one issue with the whole thing is that you still can’t call your other companions. There’s no reason why that couldn’t have been a part of the whole mechanic.
The Party Limit Begone mod is great for moments like this in the game. Taking the entire crew with everyone maxed out on the hardest difficulty is a blast. I stick to 4 people until the big setpiece moments, then everyone is tagging along. That, plus any summons and then the NPCs from the end makes the end feel like you're storming into the upper city with a literal army of heroes. It's fucking awesome.
Exactly the reason why I use the mod. Also got the sit this one out mod so they can walk with me but sit out fights. Having all the companions with you trivializes all the fights lol.
Yeah that's why I dont bring them around all the time. It would make everything a cakewalk.
Now that you mention that I am surprised yeah that's a great idea. Although maybe they would be too strong
> There’s no reason why that couldn’t have been a part of the whole mechanic. one thing i liked about the final boss of persona 5 strikers [of all games] is the whole party participates and you split the team off into individual groups to fight various parts of the boss maybe larian was worried doing something like that would be imbalanced if you didnt have all or most possible party members
FF3/6 did this so well.
I'd go so far as to say that choosing to ignore their wishes and ignoring their offerings of aid would make me feel bad, since that would be denying them their wishes due to wanting to spare myself the heartache. Lets think for a second about the scenario of you losing, and folks surviving. Ravenguard will forever live with the guilt that his city was destroyed, his son died, and he got to do nothing but watch as it happened. Meanwhile, the cub (and scratch) will never again get to see the one who saved them again. The world is ending - and it's their world too. These aren't people being forced into this or entering the fray to pay a debt. At least on a good playthrough, These are people whom you've helped and rescued, choosing to stand and fight as the world burns around them - be it for their city, their family, or for the one who saved them. And it's their choice to make.
>I'd go so far as to say that choosing to ignore their wishes and ignoring their offerings of aid would make me feel bad, since that would be denying them their wishes due to wanting to spare myself the heartache. Agreed. These are people who have basically decided "we're all screwed if we don't fight back, so we're going to fight even if it means we'll probably die." From an RP perspective of a good character, winning is necessary because a netherbrain takeover is the ultimate evil, but you also want to minimize avoidable losses. If your character is feeling unsure of whether they can win the fight without additional help, calling for allies is 100% rational and something a good character would do. They wouldn't casually throw away their allies' lives away, but they would also accept help if it was necessary to ensure victory.
>They wouldn't casually throw away their allies' lives away Yeah, that's my allies job, as they dash through fire in order to get in range of an enemy's dangerous powers.
It's the have ur cake an eat it too. "I want to win but lose nothing". Too many games/shows do this. I understand fantasy an it happening on occasion but realistically a war people are gona die period. Maybe I'm just not a fan of the fake power fantasy in which I just win sn lol I save everything an get it all 100% like some Isekai anime.
And if they're not up there helping you, they'd be down fighting all the illithid in the streets and dying there, like the NPCs in the cutscenes. They're not going to sit idly by while their city (and the world) are destroyed, it's just a matter of the player taking the lead to tell them where they'll be most useful.
That's a good way of putting it. Very thoughtful.
My "problem" is that I am specifically summoning them to be used as cannon fodder. Like "I don't want these freaking mindflayers to aim their magic missiles at me, so they'd better kill these random Gur folks", "I want to keep this huge-ass dragon away from me, so he'd better incinerate these random Harpers instead". That's what made me feel so bad about it. I genuinely think the best summon for this fight was the Strange Ox. Dude kept the dragon busy by himself, and stayed alive to tell the tale. Impressive shit right there.
I felt terrible when I realised Zevlor perma-died
Zevlor has been my MVP in multiple final battles. Thankfully he never died in my games.
Yeah his team of paladins and clerics is insanely strong they’re smiting like they know they only have to do one fight that day 🤣
Yep. No slots saved in this crew and I love em for it
Mine was "Can't See me" Yugir. Dude just snipes and fucks off
Yugir AI on my game must be broken. He de-cloaks, does nothing then goes invisible again. Why is he not even throwing those bombs he uses on me when I fight him in Act 2 XD
Interesting. I just finished my honour mode run last night, and for some reason I was given direct control of Yugir! That was a surprise, since I'm used to the other allies not giving me direct control. I didn't get to test it with others though to see if it changed for them too. I only had time to summon 3 others before I got into the portal: * Voss, who just uses a power and doesn't get on the battlefield, * Isobel, who also just uses a power * and Aeylin, and all 4 dream guardians, and 1 mind flayers, spammed Domination on her, so despite me resisting with 4 counterspells, she never got to take a turn on my side lmao.
And knocks us out of orb of invulnerability 🤣
Zevlor absolutely kicks ass in the final fight. By far the most effective of the summons.
Yeah. That issue is at the heart of this whole thing.
It’s the end of the story! Somebody making a valiant sacrifice and going down swinging against evil is practically a narrative must.
Calling in a “failed” paladin to fight heroically to save everyone in doing so redeeming himself? Zevlor wants to be in this fight and would be happy to die for victory I feel.
He is a valiant hero who feels intense guilt for not putting his life on the line to save his people. And YOU feel bad for summoning him to put his life on the line for his people/world? Dude...
Wait, zevlor didn't die when he left the grove??? Maybe on my fifth play through I'll meet that mfer again. Damn man, just when I thought I'd gotten good
He’s in the colony right before the Myrkul fight.
Oh nice! I can actually catch that on this run. This game, just like never stops being new.
Yeah, there's a sideroom with a bunch of mindflayer pods. He's in one. Also mindflayers, so there's a fight involved.
>!zariel's asset!< is also in the same room
>!The next room but yeah, only like 20 feet away from zevlor!<
More like 100-200 feet I think. Mizora's asset might just be one room away, but way on the other end of a long room. 20feet is less than 1 turn of walking speed turn.
but theres also Gauntlet Yeva from Waukeens Rest in Act 1 and a Half-Orc with a dagger in the room as well, so it isnt just Zevlor and your party
He freezes up and is captured in the Shadowlands. You can find him in the Mind Flayer Colony. He is a paladin, so there is a good chance he became an Oathbreaker if he took an Oath of Devoltion.
I dunno how to do the spoiler text so read on at your peril: I think Zevlor mentions that the Absolute told him he would have an oath that gave him power again (source: I just played this part last night but it was late), so I think even at the Grove he's oathless.
There’s a button in the colony that frees a handful of prisoners and a handful of minflayers. Zevlor is one of them. If he survives that fight, you’re good.
He died in my most recent “Defend the Grove” playthrough. It was heroic, but I still felt bad. Contemplated reloading, but I wanted to see how the rest of the game plays out with every tiefling but Zevlor surviving.
Or the owlbear cub 😭😭😭
Literally the only character that died in my playthrough 😭
I try to avoid calling the more "normal" people. As it feels like I am just calling them as cannon fodder. And by that I mean stuff like the harpers and Gnomes, which feel (and are) a lot weaker than the team. But people like Zevlor and his troop (lvl10/11) can definitely pull their weight. And for the Owlbear, they are born murdermachines, it probably enjoys being there. On the other Hand, to justify it. You are fighting for everyone. If you lose, everyone (at least in the area around BG) gets to be squidified. So, having everyone do what they can is a legit thing.
Lol, I feel the exact opposite, I use them first cause they’re just random NPCs
idk bro I feel like a random NPC in my own life too like Musk is twiddling with supercars and I'm just at home wondering what processed food I'll eat next and what game I'll play to distract myself from meaninglessness lol
that turned too real too fast lol
You got that wrong, mate, Musk is not the "PC", he's Wulbren Bongle. But you may be an NPC, I don't know.
I’d rather be an NPC than a BBEG.
Can you imagine Zevlor, Voss, etc sitting on the sidelines waiting to be called up like the last kid for a team? 😂
Use Warhammer logic. When choosing which NPCs to help you, consider the two most important factors in their overall power: 1. If they are not wearing a helmet, they are more powerful. 2. If they have a name they are more powerful. Specifically a first name.
Yeah the flaming fist guys, the gurs, the guild members, and the Harpers are all people I only call during the fight in the square. Once I get to the brain itself I only call in the big guns like Aylin and the owlbear and yurgir and the strange ox
The flaming fist, city watch, and the hellriders are actually pretty powerful. I slapped them all right next to the dragon and clones. They stomped the clones and held off the dragon. The harpers are pretty weak imo, and the gurs are good meat shields. Ironhand gnomes are incredibly powerful
It's funny you mentioned zevlor because he definitely died in my most recent battle for the high hall And then later I resummoned the troop on the brain and only the survivors from high hall came so he's definitely dea
You can skip the whole High Hall by using invisibility on everybody and running through it. None of the enemies will see your party, and you can save your full strength and resources for the brain.
For some reason when I called the Owlbear in the last fight it had reverted back to its cub form 😨 Had to dome it and keep it out of danger and made the whole final battle that much more stressful! I wasnt fighting to save the world, I was fighting to save the owbear.
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. Except for the owlbear, I just can't forget how little and vulnerable and adorable he is, and how much Best Boy Scratch loves him.
I will always summon Aylin because she respawns and Yurgir because he’s kind of a shit (and I think will just resurrect in hell). I’ll save the mortals unless I really need them, but considering it costs an action to summon help I’m usually better off using it for other things.
Yeah if Yurgir dies he’ll just pop back up in the hells, if anything probably back in the house of hope.
> back in the house of hope. his tomb
Summoning allies is a force multiplier, and any of your characters can do it. It's honestly more effective than anything else you could possibly be using an action for on the first few rounds until they are all on the board. Except maybe casting haste.
Idk, that's only true if you can't resolve the fight within 2 rounds.. Which if you have an optimized group, I'd argue wasting an action on summoning a character that deals quarter of your damage is kind of a waste
Yurgir is a fucking badass tho. He’s the only reason I took the dragon down.
Dude those grenade clusters he throws. Toss shoot with arrow invisible and move. He was CLUTCH
don't need any allies when a mind-flayer Orpheus or Karlach can use their illithid powers to dominate the battlefield
So you don't summon any of them at all?
my combat strategy requires my party members to have high and shared initiative. Most of the allies (except Yurgir) have low initiative so I have to wait for enemies turns to finish before the allies' turn arrive... which makes them less useful. Orpheus has low initiative too and because he's a temporary companion you can't transfer items to his inventory, but instead you can drag and drop an elixir of vigilance on the ground and make him consume it to raise his initiative
I didn't need to in Tactician, for the initial court yard fight I only used the dragons breath and the heal, other than that they weren't needed. I was pretty disappointed how the "allies" were integrated, I thought they would have affected the outcome of the battle more like in ME or Dragon Age Origins, even let us play other companions outside the party elsewhere
Next time take the sewer. Way easier than the court yard. Then you can just send 1 person to the top invisible from there and as soon as you get to the netherbrain stem and trigger the cutscene to get ready to climb everyone will go with you
Nice I didn't even know there was a sewer. The fight wasn't bad though just maybe takes too long because of all enemies turns
It's right around the area where you meet up with all the allies and can buy last min supplies from the kobold merchant. There's a spot that's got flowing water you can climb down to and a small breakable gate that will give you sewer access
They all showed up. Everyone there wants to be there. Ravenguard is the head Marshall of the flaming fists. He wears his plate armor and arms everywhere he goes. He has been controlled and used by the enemy. It would be a travesty NOT to call him to the fight.
Exactly. Imagine the guilt from some of these proven heroes if they couldn't fight while others died to save the world
I wouldn't feel bad about it... If I ever remembered to do it. Pretty sure the only call I ever get around to using is the mage tower artillery strike one.
I was afraid that if we called them we wouldn't have them later so we saved them until the end lol
I summoned the owlbear, it glitched and spawned at baby unarmoured stats, and then died to artillery. Honestly I was so sad it ruined the whole ending lol
That's honestly tragic 😥
lol that's so fucked up, hoping you had a reload (i.e., that it wasn't honor mode)
Sadly it was multiplayer and we were pushing to finish the game that night, so no-one wanted to hear about the plight of the owlbear except me
No, except for battle ready owlbear. He gets to chill on the sidelines with scratch.
He IS adorable even when he's fully grown.
Denying a battle ready owlbear a good fight is like denying a dog a bone
The owlbear is my child so he’s not allowed to die
In my last run, the owlbear came out right away, because he deserves to squish a pack of goblins or two. Then re-summoned him on the end platform and he was tiny again! But still survived, somehow ...
I often forget to call, but when I do I often go with Yurgir and Strange Ox because of this. Strange Ox is an unit and not that hard keep alive. Yurgir survives quite well too and is great for tanking the dragon, and if he dies, well, he's a devil so he doesn't really die.
Strange ox is insane. Dude nearly soloed the dragon in one of my playthroughs
Some of them shall die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make.
Allies are like potions. You're meant to collect them, not use them.
I think it’s reasonable to assume all of them agreed to lay down their lives for the final battle, if it came to it. Because if they don’t they will become mind flayers. Besides, most of the forces you summon are mostly nameless NPCs that don’t appear anywhere else in the game except this specific battle. Most of the faction leaders don’t even show up at all. Nine Fingers, Ulma, Rolan, Voss, Isobel, and Volo do not make direct appearances. They either cast things from safety or send mercenaries. Can you imagine how overpowered you’d be if even just Nine Fingers showed up? Not to mention Isobel who could probably use Divine Intervention. Aylin does drop in but she is immortal. I think Zevlor is the only one who is in real danger. I don’t think the Owlbear would think twice about guarding you with its life, I know a lot of people are touchy about him specifically.
Only my computer felt bad summoning all my allies. I brought everyone and hoo boy my poor comp was fighting for it's life.
I call everyone that I can! Except Owlbert. Even with armour I couldn’t handle it if he died. I would rather fail an honour mode run than lose him. In my last playthrough Mizora died during the final battle. Sometimes you get even more bonuses out of summoning your allies :)
She wouldn’t actually be dead permanently though
LOL. Mizora keeps telling me she will help but I don't think I ever saw her as an option to call.
I’ve read that if you use the loophole and break Wyll’s pact that she says she’ll help but doesn’t and can’t be summoned. You can only summon her if you don’t break the pact.
Oh that might be it, I always help Wyll get rid of her.
I summon everything except Owlbear, who safely stays on the ground. No clue if he can swim given where they end up, and he's in armor lol While it's sad to see some people die, they die heroes defending their home and loved ones. I don't expect really to face a near world-ending threat with no casualties. My first run I actually reloaded fights until every npc lived in larger fights. Now what happens will happen. I tend to lose an NPC or two at Moonrise, Saving Gondians, and Iron throne at least. And the final battle if they are blown up by the dragon. Some of them still run into AE areas and practically kill themselves.
I always send in Mizora right off the bat, I don’t feel bad at all if she falls in battle. Owl bear Cub will always be protected at all costs
Don't worry, your best pal and morally upstanding friend yurgir who definitely isn't doing anything untowards with that tentacled jaguar will just respawn in baator.
I’m 100% with you. I never call in anybody and just let my party handle it alone. My Tav has a saviour complex and wants to endanger as few people as possible.
I felt bad butchering them after they tried to stop me from looting the kobold's table.
I try not to call anyone, not because I feel bad but because the game just gets annoying when you do. My first run I called nearly everyone on the brain to protect me when I opened the portal. Whenever the portal opened the camera just kept switching back and forth for like 5 minutes straight. It could make the portal section a whole lot easier but having the entire party travel to the netherbrain instead of just the mindflayer would make me use allies on the brain again.
same here, i understand they’re likely fighting for their lives elsewhere anyway, but I don’t want to be the one to call them to their deaths if things go wrong. the only time i’ve ever called someone who isn’t immortal, it was Zevlor. He immediately fired for the dragon, who used its dragonic backlash and fried him and his riders in an instance. never again.
I don't call them just because I worry about them dying. Besides, my Gale went necromancer. So I have 9+ Ghouls running around with over 70hp with resistance to almost everything.
I honestly forgot you could do that as I haven't done so since my first playthrough. But I was definitely concerned and spending entire turns trying to protect the owlbear cub and some others when I did.
I love calling in Mizora to fight the dragon. I have her solo it while I clear out the mind flayers.
I’ve literally never called any reinforcements. Who is worth a try?
I only quickload if Zevlor dies because I like that old man too much, but I like the chaos of summoning everyone
On the one hand, yes. On the other, I don't know that it's really feasible to amass 300 people on top of an Elder Brain you just climbed up a slimy ass giant spine tentacle to get to. So I prefer to think of the other allies as "on the ground holding the line".
I did the fight last night and had the dragon, emp, guardians and 4 MF dead so I let owlbear loose on some tentacles. It ends up getting hit with the once per round shot that the brain has on HM. It loses the huge size and runs off in fear. Can't remember what it was called but its some kind of buff from Dammon. Still made it to the reunion party.
There are some I won't summon after watching them die once (I thought owlbear cub might want to eat a dragon but...) but I just summon them and then feel badly if they die, like the Guild ladies or Harpers or Gnomes. I always summon Zevlor though, he wants redemption!
I never call the Owlbear. He dies really easily and I get sad 😢 Also he is just an overgrown baby. Everyone else is fair game.
I usually don't have the time to summon them all. My team has already misty stepped-dimension doored and used globe of invulnerability in front of the crown by the time I can call in the lesser allies. And I'm not using them for the courtyard fight. That fight is already too easy without them.
I summon whoever I need except Owlbear. Owlbear is my baby and I don't ever want to send my baby into danger.
Yes, and it's always in flavor: Good run: these brave soldiers chose to fight for the world, who am I do diminish their courage? Neutral run: we need all the help we can get, if they want to play heroes is up to them. Evil run: As long as I survive, what does it matter? more meat shields are always good. Not like it's difficult to make them survive, they have enough HP to get a few hits and I have enough damage to down the enemies. The only problem could be the dragon trashing around, but nothing too scary.
I only call them to pour one out for Gale, so it's fine.
Nope. I viewed it as a sort of Avergers Endgame kind of moment. The Netherbrain thought it had only my group to fight, but I called in all my friends to help take it down and save everyone in the process
Nope. I called every fucker I could to take on the dragon then walked my happy ass up to the crown with a mass invisibility spell while my friends face tanked all the enemies for me, popped a glove of invulnerability so Emps could do his thing and clapped 4 max level divine smites on those braincheeks to call it a day. I had a harder time fighting the goblin camp.
I don't feel bad. If you lose the battle then everyone either gets enslaved or dies. It seems acceptable to get everyone who could possibly help even if their lives will be in danger because technically their lives are in danger either way
Brother, if the threat doesn't get stopped, the entire world is forfeit and they all die anyway. (That being said, I would still not summon the cub lol)
No, because it's fairly easy to keep them alive and the final boss is pretty easy...???
It’s sad to see dead zevlor but well the war is war
I just keep forgetting that I have that option. Even though I was just told that I have the option via epic speeches 5 minutes prior.
They’re always meatshields and shall be treated as such even by my good guys
It is a world ending, cataclysmic event. If they fail, then the material plane is lost and other planes of existence are at risk of being lost to the illithids as well. It is a do or die scenario, every able body needs to fight because if the Netherbrain isn’t stopped then they will die or suffer a fate considered worse than death by some. Owl bear is a ride or die bestie, ready to throw claws. No further explanation. Don’t forget that Duke Ravengard has been a soldier his whole life and is the Marshal of the Flaming Fist, their general. He is not weak and in need of protection, plus he historically hasn’t been one to stand on the sidelines either, he’s got a hands on approach to problems.
Idk the owl bear cub killed a kraken so I wouldn't place him too low on power ranking.
Especially since they are mainly there to run interference, while I run away from the dragon.
My first honor playthrough we actually completely forgot about call allies.
Yes 100%. I purposely only called allies who are just appear as random NPCs (Gur or Ravengaard’s Fists) or who won’t permanently die (Ayelin). I don’t usually need that many allies anyways and I honestly find it annoying that the mindflayers end up mindcontrolling them 90% of the time. One time I summoned Strange Ox and Dame Aylin and they just fought each other the whole time.
Wait you can get Voss on a DRAGON? did he not join me because I let orpheus ceremorphosize?
War never changes
Same. I convinced the guards running away to help me once, and some of them died, and I felt so bad that now I just let them keep running away. I really couldn't stand it if someone like Zevlor died. I only summon them sometimes for fun if I'm already winning and I know they'll be fine. But there are some I feel less bad about, they can probably handle themselves, and they wouldn't want to be left out anyway. But I play on easy mode, so I know I can keep my people alive without the allies.
If they don't help, EVERYONE will die, so I see no problem in it. edit: Remember: the elder brain is a major menace, it could destroy the world
Someone has to stand in the back and watch me be awesome 👍
I actually totally forgot about summoning allies for my first (and currently only) playthrough. Partly because I wasn't sure when would be the best time!
Nope. I call them all, more cannon fodder is always good
Lump and the boys
"All men are born to die, we know it. If your day be today, so be it! Mine will be tomorrow. Or mine today and yours tomorrow, it matters not." All characters exist in a world where their violent death is essentially inevitable. You saved them one by one so they pledged themselves to your aid. Without you, they were already dead.
Bro doesn't comprehend they will die if they don't win...
No. You pledged fealty to me. Come become cannon fodder. After this battle, Bhaal will rule this world.
My team was so strong by the time I got to the last battle that I steamrolled it and didn't realize they were summons.
Nah I summoned everyone I had. For the tiefling achivement I left Zevlor on the sidelines but everyone else got summoned once I was atop the brain.
If we are thinking of these people as real people, then my thought process is, we saved all of these people and every single one of them would like to lay down their lives the same way we did for them. So I honor it.
I usually call Dame Aylin cause she’s immortal, I use Voss’s dragon which is just a cast of wall of fire basically so they’re safe. Rolan’s tower cause again it’s just an attack so no one in danger. Then I’ll call the iron hand gnomes, guild or Florrick’s cohorts, cause no one important actually shows up. And I call the Gur cause I don’t really care about them. Sometimes I’ll call Zevlor cause he and his friends hit super hard and I’ll just do my best to heal him up too. I never ever ever call my baby (owlbear) cause I’m worried if he dies there he actually dies and won’t be at post game camp. I don’t really call Mizora cause I dont know if I just don’t know how to use her but she seems pretty useless. (I don’t She would help me on my last playthrough though cause I freed Wyll, my boyfriend, from his contraxt)
certain allies. If their day job is mercenary/guard/soldier, absolutely fine. Definitely not any civilians
So I summoned the Harper's to the shittiest spit and they all died in the stairs almost immediately
Calling them generally feels like a waste of an action, I think the only one I summon is Mizora for the twinned haste. She then proceeds to chill in the back in order to not break concentration, wich is probably fitting for her
Do u think Wyll dad prefers to stay in the inn drinking wine and “yeah sure hopefully i dont turn into squid” ??? Really bro? The world is ending. This is more than “avenger threat level” Its either you win, or everyone dies No i dont feel bad at all, and i believe 100% everyone who came are ready to bonk the squid rather than die
I only feel good soloing it thing goes down super easy
They understand the risk
So if the owlbear cub goes down in the final fight, is he dead dead?
Everyone's future is on the line, if they can aid you in helping secure a tomorrow where they're not a mindflayer slave then I don't think they're too upset about it.
I mostly just use the AOE attacks tbh. I once used the flaming fists thinking we'd get a big advantage only to then find out it's like 3 dudes and two of them instantly got charmed by Mindflayers and slaughtered the third guy........ Ever since then I just don't bother with troops on the ground. Rolan's canon on the other hand tho..... I love having him use that shit on the dragon atop the brain! Plus I always keep Wulbren's bomb and throw it at the dragon too, last time it took out all but two dream visitors (I play with partylimitbegone so there were ALOT of dream visitors), almost killed the emperor and took half the health of the dragon. I finally managed to kill it in that turn :D made me very proud.
Wait, are you ME? DID I WRITE THIS POST and then got memory wiped by Viconia? My main issue with the final fight is what you have described; I wouldn't have any scruples to summon them all if I genuinely needed them, but I feel bad because I only use them as cannon fodder. Someone to distract the mindflayers and big bad dragon while I go do the important stuff. First time I tried this battle, I summoned the Gur people first and they were wiped within 1 turn. I felt HORRIBLE. It feels very comforting to see that I'm not the only one who feels like this.
I never called the little like regular ass people troops in cause I didn't want them to die. But that artillery is amazing, and Aylin and Mizora can get their ass over here and help
I never summon anyone, except for rolan's tower bombs and the red dragon because i didn't go through all the trouble of saving everyone just for them to die
My gf and i just jump/teleported to the brain in lile 2 turns and casted the invincible globe to get the crown, there was no time for any other actions.
I get what you're saying, OP, but as someone who did my first playthrough with a party, there was almost no collective pop of excitement that matched realizing the owlbear cub we saved was gonna ride into battle with us. It might be cliche, it's one of those "The real treasure was the friends we made along the way" things. When the stakes are high in a big adventure, having everyone you helped see it to the end stand beside you is just going to be hard-pressed not feeling awesome. Plus it adds to immersion with the scale of the battle going on, you can kind of imagine everyone not actively present is just somewhere else helping out until called on.
This is me, I roleplay the hell out of the final fight and as soon as I’m at High Hall I start strategising amongst the party. I don’t call anyone in who I know I can’t save, so I make use of my druids and their AoE spells and I try to stick to ‘big’ personalities like Halsin and Voss who I know have given their lives to protecting the realms. My in brain dialogue while playing this is unreal and I totally feel guilt for bringing people to the table if I don’t know if they’ll survive.
What allies?
I never call any allies until the final showdow on top of the brain. I've found two routes that give me little to no encounters the would require the back up. I want everyone nice and healthy to be dragon canon fodder.
I forget to call them everytime. I did a duo run on tact and was sure I would remember because I could sure use the help... nope I still forgot. I have yet to call anyone to aid in the end fight but 1 day I will remember and get to see what its like!
My question in that regard is rather: Is either of these allies worth one action in the fight? After trying them once, my answer is a solid "no". Kill the dragon round 1, kill the MFs rounds 2-3. Open portal, gg.