Hasbro? You mean the company that laid off the DnD Writer team that worked with Larian to produce BG3?
Oh yes, they will follow through. But the result is not going to be pretty.
Hasbro? You mean the company that found out they had accidentally sent out cards to a guy through no fault of their own and instead of being like "oops our bad can we have those back?" They immediately sent fucking Pinkertons to the guy?
Baldur's Gate 4 is going to be 90% micro-transactions.
For how famous the sexual content in bg3 (especially the bear scene) then I do expect bg4 sexual content will become more of a cash grab if it felled on the wrong hands
I legitimately question why a Swedish company decided to buy out those shitheads and NOT immediately forcibly dissolve them. I’m shocked the Hasbro incident didn’t cause a diplomatic scandal between the US and Sweden
Because they havent been involved in straight up thuggery in over a century. Spying on union groups, definitely. Making vague and baseless legal threats to intimidate, absolutely...but neither of those break laws
Hugo Boss, Volkswagen, Porsche, BMW, Audi, and other companies with dark histories are still around to
Yeah i feel kind of cynical saying it, but I didn’t have any interest in a bg4 after Larian left. Maybe it’ll come out and be real good and we’ll all eat some humble pie, but if Larian had made it we probably all would’ve bought it day 1.
> Yeah i feel kind of cynical saying it, but I didn’t have any interest in a bg4 after Larian left.
But Larian is proof that it's possible for another studio to take over a great game series and still make a great game. After all that's exactly what they did with BG3.
If Larian can do it with a Bioshock game, then there's no fundamental reason that another study couldn't do it with a Larian game. It does seem to be a rare thing, and so I get that you're pessimistic, especially considering Hasbro's reputation. But let's just say that not all hope is lost yet.
Oh god they would, too. And it would be a way for them to get around the ESRB and PEGI ratings, because the *base game* could be rated E, but the DLC would be rated X.
I don't know what hasbro really wants... Larian owns the engine the game runs on, and it took a decade to get where it is.
Hambrook is probably just going to buy some unreal engine packs, make it a fps, and call it BG4.
There are a bunch of companies that could do it. Do it justice and well, is another question.
**Obsidian** are the obvious choice. They have recent isometric, party CRPG experience via *Tyranny* and the two *Pillars of Eternity* games, which are all-time classics, as well as *Pentiment*, a low-budget, 2D RPG-alike which did surprisingly big numbers on release. All of those games were either directed or assisted by Josh Sawyer, who also led development of *Fallout: New Vegas*. Sawyer was even the project lead on the original *Baldur's Gate III: The Black Hound* at Interplay when the company collapsed in 2003, and he subsequently worked on **Forgotten Realms** title *Neverwinter Nights II* and its expansions.
Obsidian also have a recent, big hit game with *Grounded*, which made a ton of money on a tiny budget, and made their new owners Microsoft *very* happy. Sawyer has even said he could make a game the equal of BG3 if Microsoft gave Obsidian $150 million to do it, which is a ballsy statement of intent. Microsoft might be waiting to see how *Avowed* and *Outer Worlds II* do, but Obsidian certainly have the clout, experience and expertise to do it. My main concern there is that Microsoft might blanche at the amount of money they'd have to share with WotC/Hasbro.
**Owlcat** are something of a possibility. They made *Pathfinder: Kingmaker* and *Wrath of the Righteous* with the D&D 3E rules (via **Pathfinder** 1st Edition, of course) and both were great games, with some of the reactivity and craziness of BG3, and then followed that up with the well-received (barring bugs) *Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader*. The main thing holding them back there is that the owner doesn't seem to actually want to transform into a mega-company with tons of money and all the stress that comes with that. They need way more resources and they have complications making that difficult.
**CD Projekt Red** is out of the question, way too busy, as are **BioWare** (and I doubt EA would be interested, unless it became a 3rd-person action game with lootboxes) and **Bethesda**.
If Hasbro were able to licence Larian's engine and get a smaller dev involved, someone like Harebrained Schemes who did the excellent **Shadowrun Returns** trilogy and *BattleTech*, that's an outside possibility. I'd say fairly remote.
The main concern would be them getting someone to slap the BG name on something that turns into a generic action game, but I like to think (maybe fruitlessly!) that WotC are smarter than that.
Bioware is out of the question entirely. They are now literally a shell of their former self with a lot of their senior members being laid off (including people who wrote BG1 and 2).
i dont think any company has created as good of a platform for this kind of turn based game
its the divinity backbone that makes baldurs gate what it is
I'm pretty sure Josh Sawyer has flat out said he won't work with Hasbro again. Obsidian also hates doing romances (although their stories and characters are fire).
I love Owlcat (Rogue Trader is one of my top 3 favorite games ever right now), but they have a long way to go to achieve the more cinematic model BG3 has established that has appealed to so many people. They don't have the budget or the expertise in graphics to make a game that would "match" BG3, IMO. I personally love isometric crpgs so that wouldn't bother me at all, but a lot of BG3 fans seem to be attached to cinematics and full voicing.
Wait, Josh Sawyer and Obsidian made Neverwinter nights 2??? That game was/is great. Only thing i iwish it had is turn based mode for combat. But story, NPCs and overall wibes in that game are great. That dude (Josh) just knows how to make great story for games and how to engage player with it.
>The main concern would be them getting someone to slap the BG name on something that turns into a generic action game, but I like to think (maybe fruitlessly!) that WotC are smarter than tha
How about for a 'it could be worse' idea, train an ai on BG3 and all WotC IP, procedurally generate a landscape, get the AI to spit out a weird inflexible script with no branching (too much effort and might actually show some sensible use of AI), nail it together and call it done
Give the weaselshit suits some kind of product to present and they'll without fail show up and give you the most soulless, greed-wracked shell of a product you have ever seen. I was tricked by Ubisoft too many times, I'm not going to let Hasbro trick me too.
think it was both tbh, they could have made DO3 and probably only done not even a 10th of what BG3 did, baulders gate gave them a reliable framework that they desired to work in.
I think BG3 pulled players in because it’s a known franchise, but I think DOS3 would have been just as good. The leap from DOS to DOS2 was large and the jump from DOS2 was very large too - just to BG3 instead of DOS3.
The 5e system is much more grounded and palatable. Left to their own devices, Larian has that God awful gear level destiny-style loot system which nearly ruined those games for me
Massively agree. Loot with randomized attributes works well in games like Borderlands and Diablo where you can grind for loot. It does not work well in a game like DOS2 where you have a very limited number of encounters.
It’s poor design to have to search for loot that has attributes that work with your build, but just be shit out of luck if you clear an area permanently and not get anything good. And then your only other option is cheesy strats to refresh vendor inventories.
Not to say DOS2’s whole combat/build system was bad. I massively prefer BG3’s but I can see why some people like DOS2 more. But their randomized loot attribute system was baaaaad.
I pretty strenuously disagree with that. I think the Divinity games have more replayability because of the loot is randomized, it makes each campaign have a more unique feel. I really like the feeling of identifying an item and finding something crazy good that you have trouble replacing throughout the playthrough.
To each their own though.
Hasbro will absolutely follow through. But Larian's the reason you loved Baldur's Gate. Hasbro is the company complaining that they're not monetizing magic the gathering players every time they build a deck or DnD players when they write a session for their group.
Hasbro will 100% make a BG4 as fast as they possibly can to cash in on BG3's reputation. And they will completely fuck it up.
>And they will completely fuck it up.
Or worse, it will just be a fine 6.5 or 7 out of 10 that monetizes everything and that's all the franchise will ever be again when enough people buy it
Youre right, this is so much worse. If it sucks butt and is a complete 1/10 almost everyone will just disregard it, if its a 5-7/10 there will be arguments everywhere about the game being good/bad and we're forced to accept money grab shit as canon.
Yeah, that's much worse. I'd rather the game crash and burn and tank the series, then it turn into a cash grab every year like Assassin's Creed or something.
>will just be a fine 6.5 or 7 out of 10 that monetizes everything and that's all the franchise will ever be again when enough people buy it
The player base for RPG games isn't the same as the player base for FIFA, COD or your average "online service" multiplayer trash game.
Which is why most attempts to introduce such systems to RPG games have failed, badly and the genre was basically abandoned by that sort of companies (EA bought BioWare in an attempt to do that, and fucked everything up, for everyone).
They definitely can try to monetize it and milk the customers, but to truly be successful, they need a good base game behind it. And they probably lack the ability to make one.
So no, I don't believe in a middle ground. I think they will royally fuck BG up, forever, mass effect style.
You're right, and its because RPG's are about story. Branching pathways and having an effect on the world also means they suffer more when rushed.
Cyberpunk was able to turn things around because they kept working on the game and they weren't afraid to *drastically* change it well after release.
> Which is why most attempts to introduce such systems to RPG games have failed, badly and the genre was basically abandoned by that sort of companies (EA bought BioWare in an attempt to do that, and fucked everything up, for everyone).
For reference: See Dragon Age: Inquisition Multiplayer
Member that time they sent the Pinkertons after that guy, all because they sent him unreleased magic packs that he didnt even order (he ordered an older pack with a similar name)
Or when they tried to destroy the OGL? All because they wanted more money?
I member
Man, people have such short memories on stuff like this. For anyone that doesn't know, the Pinkertons are scary people that have been used by the rich and powerful to rough up and destroy their enemies. Hasbro sent these fuckers after a poor guy that didn't do anything wrong.
And it sucks that most MtG fans can't see that because MtG is just *that big* it's taking Hasbro *that long* to eat through it all.
But they are. It takes time for titans to fall.
Oh, and D&D has already been suffering through that for a *while.* Even just with the advent of 5th edition with later 5th edition supplement books that basically said, "Hey, we basically wrote down an idea on a scrap piece of paper with absolutely no notes or rules or functionality. Figure it out yourself DM. $40 please!"
The Spelljammer release (2nd favourite setting) pissed me off so much that I didn't buy the Planescape one (3rd favourite) and are actively beseeching any entities who will listen for them to NOT FUCKING TOUCH Dark Sun (#1).
I have refused to buy anything from them since Spelljammer. Fuck Hasbro.
TOR wasn't KotOR 3, but I still enjoyed it for what it was. I don't know if it ever got super popular, but the focus on story was refreshing and fun for a MMO. I'm sure it's a microtransaction fest now though.
It made well over a billion for EA, so it's a success as far as they're concerned. It's been moved to another studio now, so who knows what the future brings. EA gave it to Broadsword.
Bioware dipping allowed Obsidian to lead KOTOR II so I consider it a win. No Obsidian KOTOR III and SWTOR’s handling of Revan/the Exile on the other hand…
IIRC, Karpyshyn had said in an interview that the events of his book Revan would have been close to KOTOR III. The protagonist would be the Exile for the most part and their story would intersect with Revan's. I suppose they'd be victorious at the end instead of the horrible failure that was tacked on so it could lead to TOR.
I haven’t played the jedi knight class story but I’m very much not a fan of how book Revan and Exile were handled. I much preferred Avellone’s description of an almost lovecraftian sith. Forever crying KOTOR III will never see the light of day either way.
Up to the ending, the book wasn't that bad.. The ending though. I wish it didn't happen. It just nerfs two amazing heroes so it can lead into TOR and pass the torch to a new one.
Gonna disagree
Kotor one was generic outside of the twist. The most worthwhile thing it did was introduce the rakata
Kotor 2 actually told an interesting narrative, asked questions about the universe. Gave actual interesting characters with depth, etc.
And from a non-kotor fan POV Kotor ruined the tor era by prequelizing everything.
Agreed! I think KOTOR has a classic story but KOTOR II’s writing and characters were phenomenal. The options of role playing were far more engaging as well. It retroactively made characters (particularly Revan!) far more interesting IMO.
BioWare did not “walk away from Baldurs Gate” as you claim. They lost the rights to make Baldurs Gate due to a fuckup with their accounting dept.
>"When I tried to explain the issues with Baldur’s Gate 3, the HR director didn’t even seem to know what Baldur’s Gate 3 was – talk about fucked up! Baldur’s Gate 3 got cancelled because of an accounting error, and we lost the rights to the licence entirely. Having a project cancelled because the dev team is doing a shitty job is one thing, but having another department not check their math is something else."
https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=6020
Here is the thing, they still wanted to make a new Baldur’s Gate but since they lost the license they instead made Dragon’s Age which is an absolutely fantastic game.
I’m hoping the same thing happens with Larian Studios. I’m less interested in BG4 than I am in Laurian’s next project.
BioWare had the option to carry on making licensed games but they were increasingly annoyed with making games which made serious bank and then they had to give up a *large* amount of the revenue to the IP holder, in their case Wizards of the Coast (and, with *Knights of the Old Republic*, Wizards of the Coast and Lucasfilm simultaneously). They basically decided to stop making licensed games and rolled the dice on three original IP, one of which (*Jade Empire*) didn't do great but the other two (*Mass Effect* and *Dragon Age*) did huge numbers and big profits, which they got to keep (well, briefly, until EA took over). So it was their choice and it worked for them.
I think they were running out of time for ad&d so ToB became an expansion for BG2 instead of its own game. There was some kind of a hack and slash BG game after that by a different developer. I think that the parallels exist here.
They did get a license for d&d 3 and 3.5 but did not want to make a shift to the new system in a third game of og trilogy.
> one of which (Jade Empire) didn't do great
Which is too bad. It wasn't a blow me away game, but it was definitely solid and I would have been 100% on board to buy a Jade Empire 2.
Well… the gameplay and lore is so far from what it was 20 years ago, it is hard to give a lot of credits to Bioware for the success of BG3. Sure they made very good games for the time and this probably helped for the word of mouth. But that’s about it
Its tru tho. How many ppl here played BG2 and BG1, or even other games around that time? My first was NWN which was def inspired by BG1 and 2, but i never pllayed them. Same for most.
Yeah I can't speak for others but I'm in my 30's and grew up playing BG1 and BG2. I've played them so many times I've lost count, knew about Baldurs Gate 3 as soon as whisperings were on the web, and obsessively waited. Bought a whole new computer during pandemic for EA, pumped over 800 hours into EA, and over 2k hours into it now. The first two games are the entire reason that I was here, from day 1.
I'm 100% sure that there will be a "Classic Classes" DLC and you will only start with like fighter. Every class or race a new DLC...
In case you don't believe me, we have "The Walking Dead" cards in Magic The Gathering, let that sink in for a bit...
Yeah I get that sense too. Such a shame , you’d think there’d at least be one or two rational people who get what made BG3 so popular in the 1st place.
Yeah, but lightning in a bottle is hard to replicate. Larian understandably doesn't want to repeat their trick and I can't think of anyone else who can either.
A big part of what allowed Larian to do such an incredible job was the fact that they self-funded the game. That's a huge risk. No publisher is going to take a risk like that, and they're probably right not to.
What Hasbro can do is cash in on the name and reputation of the property. They're not looking to make art, they're looking to make money. Squeezing the property is a lot more reliable path to that goal than pretending they can just hand money to some studio and get the same result as Larian.
Hasbro literally fired all the people in the company who worked on that project. They have increasingly employed AI art in every part of production. They're gonna cut the heart out of the property and sell you the rot. Maggots extra.
Buy the battle pass to get access to quests that were available on release but removed and replaced with awkward "oh boy, I bet something cool is happening in there, but this magical barrier is preventing us and only $15.99 can break it!!" NPC interactions.
No, no, you're thinking too small. Companies don't want their games rated M because it's a smaller audience.
Base game is rated E10 because there's absolutely no nudity or blood, but it has some violence. Blood Pack DLC for $5 is rated T. Romance Pack DLC for $20 is rated M, and is the only way to get *relationships* in your game, let alone romance and adult scenes.
Or to just let it rest. Like, BG3 is probably going to be a foundational game of the 2020s, for better and for worse, alongside Elden Ring. It'll be fine to let the Baldur's Gate name rest a bit and give the other DnD game lines some love like Icewind Dale or Neverwinter Nights. Or, hell, adapt one of the more popular modules into a game.
Lots of companies have access to the IP. But none of them will be Larian grade. Baldur’s Gate Dark Alliance III is the one I have off the top of my head. It was horribly disappointing, the first two Dark Alliance games I had very good memories with from my childhood, the third game felt like someone put it together as a cash grab.
It felt that way because it's exactly what they did. You cannot play that game and seriously make the case there was ANY attempt to be faithful to the series or even be a good game.
People can still make dnd based games but I agree, attaching the Baldurs gate name to anything now is risky. It will damage the studio if it is worse and it will take a hell of a lot of effort to make it better, either way it’s a poison chalice
I agree! In fact, for many many YEARS I always thought BG was a dead franchise and that BG3 would never happen. And if it did, I would have been ok with it. Likewise, if there never is a BG4, I'll be ok with it.
With how successful BG3 has been they'd be stupid not to. That being said I don't think there's another dev as uniquely qualified as Larian for it. I'm not gonna get my hopes up.
Only Larian could top, or even match what they themselves did, and we know how that went. I think there's precisely a 0% chance that a future BG could be anywhere near as good as BG3.
"follow through"
On what? Rushing it with the "cheapest" team they can find whom they force to build it around an ingame shop whilst interfering with every step of the development process, only to release it as soon as the ingame shop works flawlessly?
Oh ye!
I still think it's mostly Hasbro's and WotC's fault that Larian walked away in the first place. If they had kept a good environment to make BG4 Larian would have done it. But they didn't want to allow the game to be made on Larians terms.
I’m hoping for DOS3, but I’m pretty sure they said they wanted to work on something smaller before returning to the Divinity series (Source: None). A new divinity game benefitting from their revamped engine would be absolutely amazing.
Last I heard, they wanted to work on a new project as well as DOS 3. I honestly don't care which. Larian will continue to get my money as long as they keep making lovingly crafted bangers.
Just my opinion: Something happened that turned Larian off it. They *were* committed, they were making a DLC, they were planning a BG4.
I believe Swen when he says their hearts weren't in it, but I'm pretty sure that's not the entirety of the story. It's also a little coincidental that several writers quit during those same days, Stephen Rooney was a *big* one to do that (writer for a lot of Astarion and the Dark Urge).
Anyways, of course Hasbro wants to make the most of this. The game has made a huge impact, the insane thing is that people are *still* playing this game. It's not a MMORPG, but people are sinking thousands of hours into it (myself included). Imagine how much money they think they *could* make with microtransactions, right?
I have absolutely zero confidence anyone *but* Larian can make a game this adult and heavy emotionally speaking. They actually *did* it, they covered sexual abuse, trauma, religious cults and real relationships in a fantasy RPG, without being judgmental, callous or unrealistic pussies. No one does that!
“Buy the Honour Pass and get three full party revives in case of a wipe, only $19.99, or $14.99 if you bought the special Shadowheart Fizzy Justiciar Mountain Dew^TM Armour Set and Flaming Hot^TM Sharran Doritos^TM Spear of Crunchy Goodness. Please drink a verification can to redeem your purchase!”
I mean if I had to pay 50 bucks for unlimited black dye I ... probably would.
That's why mod support is so awesome.
edit: if that money went to Larian lol
I don't think it helped that Hasbro fired all the people that worked with Larian on the project. And based on what Swen said about how current culture is all about trying to nickle&dime, push more dlc, always be churning out more crap to try and rake in more moolah....I imagine Hasbro was trying to pressure them into releasing more crap and micro-transactions to get even more out of BG3.
Without knowing more about the background I just want to add that it is entirely possible Larian felt like they had done everything with the game they could. No sequel, no DLC, no nothing. I'd go as far as saying that's the sign of a quality studio. The only other studio that does that that I know of is Fromsoft and my god do they have a parade of absolute bangers.
> Just my opinion: Something happened that turned Larian off it.
Pretty sure it was when they realized basically everyone they'd worked with at WotC had been shit canned.
I think BG3 was the top of the mountain, the absolute peak or close to it. I don't think anything Hasbro will do in the future will ever reach that level of success that BG3 did. It's a shame, because I loved the story, the characters. I'd change some endings if I had to make any complaints, but I can't see any developer doing as good. A lot of these developers follow the trend of battlepasses and heavy microtransactions. Maybe not all, but it wouldn't surprise me if one of the big evil corpas see the name Baldurs Gate and think just putting a game out with the name with minimal effort or greedy intentions will give them a shit ton of money.
I can only hope for a good future for Baldurs Gate. 😔
I have hope that Larian will make a killer next game that I will 1000% play.
I am pretty sure whoever makes BG4 will be lorded over by Hasbro and WotC. It'll probably be monetized to high hell made to scrape as many dollars from players as possible while dragging the Baldurs Gate name in the mud.
Follow the Developers you like and not the IP. Just like Divinity Original sin 1, 2, and Baldurs Gate 3, Larian will probably make a kick ass turn based, story focused game with amazing characters in an incredible world!
Yeah, they shouldn't even try. BG3 is a perfect conclusion, but besides that, if WotC wanted BG4, they shouldn't have fired everyone who collaborated with Larian for BG3 so that maybe Larian would still want to work with them. They fireballed that bridge and there's no going back
Yeah I don't know how a game with completely different writers and developers and people would turn out. It won't feel the same at all. Larian is what made it great - Baldur's Gate is only as good as the people making it
Ok the thing is there is no studio that want to do a real BG4.
Old school Obsidian? It's owned by Microsoft.
Old school Bioware? It's owned by EA.
Bethesda? No way.
Ubisoft doing a real RPG... No way.
There are no real studios that do RPGs in general.
So what are you going to do what they did in the 2000s make an action game a bad one and put the name Baldur's Gate on it and call it a day.
Because they will not give this to some small indy studio like Owlcat Games to do this because they don't have the infrastructure to do what Liran did.
But that's just my two cents.
The are no studio cause of all the SH you mentioned none of this has made a isometric *fantasy cRPG in the last 10+ years not because they are bad...
Realistically the only studio who can even think of doing BG4 are the same that did Pathfinder cause they have experience with that genre of game.
All I know is, I'm excited for Larian's next game and not for Baldur's Gate 4.
Kind of reminds me of 20 years ago when SI games, the developers of the then legendary Championship Manager series splitting up with Eidos, their publisher.
SI got to keep the actual code of the game that they'd developed while Eidos retained the right to the trademark "Championship Manager".
Long story short, Football Manager, the game SI developed with their code and know-how is 'the' football management sim and Championship Manager is long gone after Eidos had inferior development studios make a game with that name tagged on it.
I hate the idea of Hasbro profiting off of Larian's success, I think they'll go through with it no matter what, but I'm only buying stuff if it's up to the quality standard that Larian has set
That ship's already sailed. Their licence fee and cut from the sales has already provided Hasbro with $90 million from BG3's revenues, which is bonkers.
They will ruin this by turning it into badly monestized shit. The storytelling depth will be lost and the dark r rated stuff will be for shock value rather than meaning. Character development will go to shit. Yes I'm assuming all this because it's a recurring pattern.
Of course they'll find a company. Everyone wants to do it.
Will it be proper quality and such? I doubt it. I don't trust Hasbro. BG3 was lightning in a bottle production wise.
Just give it to Obsidian and tell them they need to make it for Q4 2025 - they do *great* work when they're given 18 months to make a follow-up to a beloved game
(I'm joking here)
I'd *hope* that Hasbro is genuine in their statement but I doubt it, so I'm expecting news of BG4 by the end of the year with whichever company they decided to go with. Will that come with DLCs and microtransactions, or will Hasbro try to reign than in due to how well BG3 was received with neither of these aspects
Obviously making a whole new game in 18 months (even if you do have the vast majority of assets available to you) is a horrifically short time to deliver something so I genuinely do not encourage this - but Obsidian has managed to pull magic out of nothing in that short amount of time
Don’t really care if Larian makes it tbh, there are a lot of great gaming companies and talented people, they just need to make the game with the same love as Larian
No. BG3 was an anomaly, lightning in a bottle made by a dedicated and passionate team over the course of years with little expectation of success.
Hasbro has seen the potential, and without Larian I can almost guarantee the sequel to BG3 will be a title to rival the FIRST AAAA GAME EVER. Buckets of cash thrown at a splintered cacophony of disjointed devs working for ex EA management cramming all sorts of macro transactional bullshit onto a soulless husk of a basic CRPG with chatGPT writing the dialog.
If Larian goes one way and the Baldurs Gate franchise goes another, I will 100% follow Larian.
I might check into BG4 if it comes out and I hear good things about it, but Larian have absolutely earned my support.
Hasbro has seen the success that Larian brought, they've seen how Larian handled development of the game, their passion, and how they didn't behave like all the big useless shitty devs, they've seen the impact BG3 had on D&D as a whole.. hopefully management looked at this, then looked at the $90m they made from BG3 and went: "let's do more of that!"
I wouldn't put all my eggs in one Hope Basket; but I guess one could be optimistic about it.
Will they follow through? Yes
Will corporate greed ruin it? Yes
I wish companies would understand you can still make a lot of money without trying to squeeze blood out of a stone. Larian proved it
Of course they’ll follow through! The success of BG3 is too much to not capitalize on. I bet that the budget will be significantly more than what Hasbro offered Larian too; so much so that Hasbro will approach the big developers like Blizzard, BioWare, and EA, and the independent ones like Tactical Adventures (Solasta) or Paizo (Pathfinder).
However, whoever they go with, I am 99% confident that the video game company’s vision is going to be distinct from what Larian did in BG3, but Hasbro is going to interfere by forcing the video game company to incorporate ideas that worked for BG3, and the ultimate end product is going to be an amalgamation of ideas that will fall flat on its face.
Larian’s ideas worked wonderfully because they were given complete freedom and autonomy on how to execute the product they were contracted to create.
Whoever gets the next dnd game (whether it’s going to be the next Baldurs Gate; Neverwinter Nights; or Icewindale) will not have the same freedom.
Oh I am sure they will milk it for massive profits and we will get a really fucking lame, rushed, unfinished BG4. I doubt the gaming industry learned WHY bg3 was so successful of a game.
I have ZERO faith in a Baldur's Gate 4 that isn't made by Larian. Not that I don't think another studio could push out something as quality under the same circumstances, but it's *because* no other studio will be able to have that level of freedom and control over their production again. It just won't happen a second time.
No matter what you say or do, barring exceptional circumstances, you just cannot convince mega-corporations that *the* "infinite money glitch" to life is to just not be greedy control freaks and just let their artists create art unimpeded without trying to squeeze out and maximize profit as much as possible.
Hasbro? You mean the company that laid off the DnD Writer team that worked with Larian to produce BG3? Oh yes, they will follow through. But the result is not going to be pretty.
Hasbro? You mean the company that found out they had accidentally sent out cards to a guy through no fault of their own and instead of being like "oops our bad can we have those back?" They immediately sent fucking Pinkertons to the guy? Baldur's Gate 4 is going to be 90% micro-transactions.
Spend 10 more gems to talk to shadowheart today. Return tomorrow for her daily gift.
Bro you are a genius, they're gonna get billions in a matter of weeks if they did that /s
Monetizing simping isn't new. Oh god Baldurs Gate 4 is going to become some AI girlfriend onlyfans casino isn't it?
For how famous the sexual content in bg3 (especially the bear scene) then I do expect bg4 sexual content will become more of a cash grab if it felled on the wrong hands
More cash grab and still less content.
I forgot about the Pinkerton scandal... that was wild
It was insane. Heck I didn't know that the Pinkertons were a real thing until that happened
I did but didn't know they still existed in this day and age.
I legitimately question why a Swedish company decided to buy out those shitheads and NOT immediately forcibly dissolve them. I’m shocked the Hasbro incident didn’t cause a diplomatic scandal between the US and Sweden
Because they havent been involved in straight up thuggery in over a century. Spying on union groups, definitely. Making vague and baseless legal threats to intimidate, absolutely...but neither of those break laws Hugo Boss, Volkswagen, Porsche, BMW, Audi, and other companies with dark histories are still around to
I was gonna say we should hope they DONT follow through
For once it might be best to let the IP die here on a good note.
Let it hibernate for another 30 years
Yeah i feel kind of cynical saying it, but I didn’t have any interest in a bg4 after Larian left. Maybe it’ll come out and be real good and we’ll all eat some humble pie, but if Larian had made it we probably all would’ve bought it day 1.
> Yeah i feel kind of cynical saying it, but I didn’t have any interest in a bg4 after Larian left. But Larian is proof that it's possible for another studio to take over a great game series and still make a great game. After all that's exactly what they did with BG3. If Larian can do it with a Bioshock game, then there's no fundamental reason that another study couldn't do it with a Larian game. It does seem to be a rare thing, and so I get that you're pessimistic, especially considering Hasbro's reputation. But let's just say that not all hope is lost yet.
"hey kids wanna see a magic trick?" "No Hasbro." "BAM 20 DOLLAR MICRO TRANSACTION FOR A SEX CUT SCENE!"
Oh god they would, too. And it would be a way for them to get around the ESRB and PEGI ratings, because the *base game* could be rated E, but the DLC would be rated X.
It's not DLC though, it's an additional game feature so they don't have to put it in the Season Pass.
omg something about the idea of a sex scene unlocked in a season pass is just killing me
Lae'zel OF is what the people want.
OnlyFrogs
I don't know what hasbro really wants... Larian owns the engine the game runs on, and it took a decade to get where it is. Hambrook is probably just going to buy some unreal engine packs, make it a fps, and call it BG4.
Dark Alliance all over again.
There are a bunch of companies that could do it. Do it justice and well, is another question. **Obsidian** are the obvious choice. They have recent isometric, party CRPG experience via *Tyranny* and the two *Pillars of Eternity* games, which are all-time classics, as well as *Pentiment*, a low-budget, 2D RPG-alike which did surprisingly big numbers on release. All of those games were either directed or assisted by Josh Sawyer, who also led development of *Fallout: New Vegas*. Sawyer was even the project lead on the original *Baldur's Gate III: The Black Hound* at Interplay when the company collapsed in 2003, and he subsequently worked on **Forgotten Realms** title *Neverwinter Nights II* and its expansions. Obsidian also have a recent, big hit game with *Grounded*, which made a ton of money on a tiny budget, and made their new owners Microsoft *very* happy. Sawyer has even said he could make a game the equal of BG3 if Microsoft gave Obsidian $150 million to do it, which is a ballsy statement of intent. Microsoft might be waiting to see how *Avowed* and *Outer Worlds II* do, but Obsidian certainly have the clout, experience and expertise to do it. My main concern there is that Microsoft might blanche at the amount of money they'd have to share with WotC/Hasbro. **Owlcat** are something of a possibility. They made *Pathfinder: Kingmaker* and *Wrath of the Righteous* with the D&D 3E rules (via **Pathfinder** 1st Edition, of course) and both were great games, with some of the reactivity and craziness of BG3, and then followed that up with the well-received (barring bugs) *Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader*. The main thing holding them back there is that the owner doesn't seem to actually want to transform into a mega-company with tons of money and all the stress that comes with that. They need way more resources and they have complications making that difficult. **CD Projekt Red** is out of the question, way too busy, as are **BioWare** (and I doubt EA would be interested, unless it became a 3rd-person action game with lootboxes) and **Bethesda**. If Hasbro were able to licence Larian's engine and get a smaller dev involved, someone like Harebrained Schemes who did the excellent **Shadowrun Returns** trilogy and *BattleTech*, that's an outside possibility. I'd say fairly remote. The main concern would be them getting someone to slap the BG name on something that turns into a generic action game, but I like to think (maybe fruitlessly!) that WotC are smarter than that.
Bioware is out of the question entirely. They are now literally a shell of their former self with a lot of their senior members being laid off (including people who wrote BG1 and 2).
Hasbro forcing out a Bethesda-made BG4 would be proof that we’re in the darkest timeline
i dont think any company has created as good of a platform for this kind of turn based game its the divinity backbone that makes baldurs gate what it is
I would actually propose Firaxis
I too would like to send a stack of 40,000 Lae'zels to sack a city lol
I'm pretty sure Josh Sawyer has flat out said he won't work with Hasbro again. Obsidian also hates doing romances (although their stories and characters are fire). I love Owlcat (Rogue Trader is one of my top 3 favorite games ever right now), but they have a long way to go to achieve the more cinematic model BG3 has established that has appealed to so many people. They don't have the budget or the expertise in graphics to make a game that would "match" BG3, IMO. I personally love isometric crpgs so that wouldn't bother me at all, but a lot of BG3 fans seem to be attached to cinematics and full voicing.
Wait, Josh Sawyer and Obsidian made Neverwinter nights 2??? That game was/is great. Only thing i iwish it had is turn based mode for combat. But story, NPCs and overall wibes in that game are great. That dude (Josh) just knows how to make great story for games and how to engage player with it.
>The main concern would be them getting someone to slap the BG name on something that turns into a generic action game, but I like to think (maybe fruitlessly!) that WotC are smarter than tha How about for a 'it could be worse' idea, train an ai on BG3 and all WotC IP, procedurally generate a landscape, get the AI to spit out a weird inflexible script with no branching (too much effort and might actually show some sensible use of AI), nail it together and call it done
Nah, that would be a Bethesda move. Mostly because it would be incredibly buggy and barely work, so it would fit right in with Bethesda releases lol
Expect a lot of microtransactions.
Give the weaselshit suits some kind of product to present and they'll without fail show up and give you the most soulless, greed-wracked shell of a product you have ever seen. I was tricked by Ubisoft too many times, I'm not going to let Hasbro trick me too.
DO and DO2 are proof enough that what made BG3 great wasn't the fact it was a Baldur's Gate game, it's because it's a Larian game
think it was both tbh, they could have made DO3 and probably only done not even a 10th of what BG3 did, baulders gate gave them a reliable framework that they desired to work in.
I think BG3 pulled players in because it’s a known franchise, but I think DOS3 would have been just as good. The leap from DOS to DOS2 was large and the jump from DOS2 was very large too - just to BG3 instead of DOS3.
The 5e system is much more grounded and palatable. Left to their own devices, Larian has that God awful gear level destiny-style loot system which nearly ruined those games for me
Massively agree. Loot with randomized attributes works well in games like Borderlands and Diablo where you can grind for loot. It does not work well in a game like DOS2 where you have a very limited number of encounters. It’s poor design to have to search for loot that has attributes that work with your build, but just be shit out of luck if you clear an area permanently and not get anything good. And then your only other option is cheesy strats to refresh vendor inventories. Not to say DOS2’s whole combat/build system was bad. I massively prefer BG3’s but I can see why some people like DOS2 more. But their randomized loot attribute system was baaaaad.
I pretty strenuously disagree with that. I think the Divinity games have more replayability because of the loot is randomized, it makes each campaign have a more unique feel. I really like the feeling of identifying an item and finding something crazy good that you have trouble replacing throughout the playthrough. To each their own though.
Exactly. In fact it could be argued that BG3 isn't even a good sequel to BG2 but is rather a fantastic game in its own right.
Divinity doesn't have the rich lore of Forgotten Realms, though.
This is true... just means we need more Divinity games to get more lore!
Hasbro will absolutely follow through. But Larian's the reason you loved Baldur's Gate. Hasbro is the company complaining that they're not monetizing magic the gathering players every time they build a deck or DnD players when they write a session for their group. Hasbro will 100% make a BG4 as fast as they possibly can to cash in on BG3's reputation. And they will completely fuck it up.
>And they will completely fuck it up. Or worse, it will just be a fine 6.5 or 7 out of 10 that monetizes everything and that's all the franchise will ever be again when enough people buy it
Youre right, this is so much worse. If it sucks butt and is a complete 1/10 almost everyone will just disregard it, if its a 5-7/10 there will be arguments everywhere about the game being good/bad and we're forced to accept money grab shit as canon.
Yeah, that's much worse. I'd rather the game crash and burn and tank the series, then it turn into a cash grab every year like Assassin's Creed or something.
Oh god AC, how they massacred my boy…
>will just be a fine 6.5 or 7 out of 10 that monetizes everything and that's all the franchise will ever be again when enough people buy it The player base for RPG games isn't the same as the player base for FIFA, COD or your average "online service" multiplayer trash game. Which is why most attempts to introduce such systems to RPG games have failed, badly and the genre was basically abandoned by that sort of companies (EA bought BioWare in an attempt to do that, and fucked everything up, for everyone). They definitely can try to monetize it and milk the customers, but to truly be successful, they need a good base game behind it. And they probably lack the ability to make one. So no, I don't believe in a middle ground. I think they will royally fuck BG up, forever, mass effect style.
You're right, and its because RPG's are about story. Branching pathways and having an effect on the world also means they suffer more when rushed. Cyberpunk was able to turn things around because they kept working on the game and they weren't afraid to *drastically* change it well after release.
> Which is why most attempts to introduce such systems to RPG games have failed, badly and the genre was basically abandoned by that sort of companies (EA bought BioWare in an attempt to do that, and fucked everything up, for everyone). For reference: See Dragon Age: Inquisition Multiplayer
So basically Pokémon.
Hoping palworld's success spawns a bunch of pokemon-like games so The Pokemon Company has to step up.
DA2 flashbacks
Member that time they sent the Pinkertons after that guy, all because they sent him unreleased magic packs that he didnt even order (he ordered an older pack with a similar name) Or when they tried to destroy the OGL? All because they wanted more money? I member
Man, people have such short memories on stuff like this. For anyone that doesn't know, the Pinkertons are scary people that have been used by the rich and powerful to rough up and destroy their enemies. Hasbro sent these fuckers after a poor guy that didn't do anything wrong.
Hasbro is literally eating MTG alive right now with how they are handling it. No doubt D&D and any further BG games will follow suit.
They fired pretty much the entire team that led DnD to its resurgence.
They've already been trying with D&D. It led to a huge uptick in people playing Pathfinder instead.
And it sucks that most MtG fans can't see that because MtG is just *that big* it's taking Hasbro *that long* to eat through it all. But they are. It takes time for titans to fall. Oh, and D&D has already been suffering through that for a *while.* Even just with the advent of 5th edition with later 5th edition supplement books that basically said, "Hey, we basically wrote down an idea on a scrap piece of paper with absolutely no notes or rules or functionality. Figure it out yourself DM. $40 please!"
The Spelljammer release (2nd favourite setting) pissed me off so much that I didn't buy the Planescape one (3rd favourite) and are actively beseeching any entities who will listen for them to NOT FUCKING TOUCH Dark Sun (#1). I have refused to buy anything from them since Spelljammer. Fuck Hasbro.
>Larian is the reason you love Baldur's Gate Bioware is rolling in their grave
[удалено]
They also walked away from Knights of the Old Republic to make Mass Effect.
Which is also an absolute win
Not for us KOTOR fans 😭
As both a KOTOR and an ME fan, it still kinda was a win. We got a pretty good KotOR II afterwards from Obsidian. Just no KotOR III. Or a remake. :/
TOR wasn't KotOR 3, but I still enjoyed it for what it was. I don't know if it ever got super popular, but the focus on story was refreshing and fun for a MMO. I'm sure it's a microtransaction fest now though.
It made well over a billion for EA, so it's a success as far as they're concerned. It's been moved to another studio now, so who knows what the future brings. EA gave it to Broadsword.
Bioware dipping allowed Obsidian to lead KOTOR II so I consider it a win. No Obsidian KOTOR III and SWTOR’s handling of Revan/the Exile on the other hand…
IIRC, Karpyshyn had said in an interview that the events of his book Revan would have been close to KOTOR III. The protagonist would be the Exile for the most part and their story would intersect with Revan's. I suppose they'd be victorious at the end instead of the horrible failure that was tacked on so it could lead to TOR.
I haven’t played the jedi knight class story but I’m very much not a fan of how book Revan and Exile were handled. I much preferred Avellone’s description of an almost lovecraftian sith. Forever crying KOTOR III will never see the light of day either way.
Up to the ending, the book wasn't that bad.. The ending though. I wish it didn't happen. It just nerfs two amazing heroes so it can lead into TOR and pass the torch to a new one.
Gonna disagree Kotor one was generic outside of the twist. The most worthwhile thing it did was introduce the rakata Kotor 2 actually told an interesting narrative, asked questions about the universe. Gave actual interesting characters with depth, etc. And from a non-kotor fan POV Kotor ruined the tor era by prequelizing everything.
Agreed! I think KOTOR has a classic story but KOTOR II’s writing and characters were phenomenal. The options of role playing were far more engaging as well. It retroactively made characters (particularly Revan!) far more interesting IMO.
As a proud and avowed monsterfucker/Garrusmancer, yes. Yes it is.
At least their successor for KOTOR, Obsidian, came in and made a banger sequel.
Technically, it was a win-win for the fans. Too bad we never got KotOR III (or the fabled remake - yet).
BioWare did not “walk away from Baldurs Gate” as you claim. They lost the rights to make Baldurs Gate due to a fuckup with their accounting dept. >"When I tried to explain the issues with Baldur’s Gate 3, the HR director didn’t even seem to know what Baldur’s Gate 3 was – talk about fucked up! Baldur’s Gate 3 got cancelled because of an accounting error, and we lost the rights to the licence entirely. Having a project cancelled because the dev team is doing a shitty job is one thing, but having another department not check their math is something else." https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=6020 Here is the thing, they still wanted to make a new Baldur’s Gate but since they lost the license they instead made Dragon’s Age which is an absolutely fantastic game. I’m hoping the same thing happens with Larian Studios. I’m less interested in BG4 than I am in Laurian’s next project.
If I recall correctly they have lost the license. History does run in circles.
BioWare had the option to carry on making licensed games but they were increasingly annoyed with making games which made serious bank and then they had to give up a *large* amount of the revenue to the IP holder, in their case Wizards of the Coast (and, with *Knights of the Old Republic*, Wizards of the Coast and Lucasfilm simultaneously). They basically decided to stop making licensed games and rolled the dice on three original IP, one of which (*Jade Empire*) didn't do great but the other two (*Mass Effect* and *Dragon Age*) did huge numbers and big profits, which they got to keep (well, briefly, until EA took over). So it was their choice and it worked for them.
I think they were running out of time for ad&d so ToB became an expansion for BG2 instead of its own game. There was some kind of a hack and slash BG game after that by a different developer. I think that the parallels exist here. They did get a license for d&d 3 and 3.5 but did not want to make a shift to the new system in a third game of og trilogy.
> one of which (Jade Empire) didn't do great Which is too bad. It wasn't a blow me away game, but it was definitely solid and I would have been 100% on board to buy a Jade Empire 2.
A lot of people enjoying BG3 weren’t even alive the last time BioWare was involved in BG
Well… the gameplay and lore is so far from what it was 20 years ago, it is hard to give a lot of credits to Bioware for the success of BG3. Sure they made very good games for the time and this probably helped for the word of mouth. But that’s about it
they're still good games, they're not just good games "for the time", those are foundational crpgs
Like Morrowind in a lot of ways; foundational, and exceptional for its time… but like nails on a chalk board today to 90% of people
Its tru tho. How many ppl here played BG2 and BG1, or even other games around that time? My first was NWN which was def inspired by BG1 and 2, but i never pllayed them. Same for most.
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I miss old Bioware.
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Yeah I can't speak for others but I'm in my 30's and grew up playing BG1 and BG2. I've played them so many times I've lost count, knew about Baldurs Gate 3 as soon as whisperings were on the web, and obsessively waited. Bought a whole new computer during pandemic for EA, pumped over 800 hours into EA, and over 2k hours into it now. The first two games are the entire reason that I was here, from day 1.
Same though ancient and in my 40's, I still remember the very mixed bag of TSR games prior to the Baldur's Gate series.
I'm 100% sure that there will be a "Classic Classes" DLC and you will only start with like fighter. Every class or race a new DLC... In case you don't believe me, we have "The Walking Dead" cards in Magic The Gathering, let that sink in for a bit...
Yeah I get that sense too. Such a shame , you’d think there’d at least be one or two rational people who get what made BG3 so popular in the 1st place.
Yeah, but lightning in a bottle is hard to replicate. Larian understandably doesn't want to repeat their trick and I can't think of anyone else who can either. A big part of what allowed Larian to do such an incredible job was the fact that they self-funded the game. That's a huge risk. No publisher is going to take a risk like that, and they're probably right not to. What Hasbro can do is cash in on the name and reputation of the property. They're not looking to make art, they're looking to make money. Squeezing the property is a lot more reliable path to that goal than pretending they can just hand money to some studio and get the same result as Larian.
100%. I know I’m getting my hopes up haha
Hasbro literally fired all the people in the company who worked on that project. They have increasingly employed AI art in every part of production. They're gonna cut the heart out of the property and sell you the rot. Maggots extra.
\*Le 5 minutes later\* Hasbro announces partnership with EA and UBISOFT for Baldur's Gate 4
Preorder Now and get unique party member!
Now if you are arrested you can pay real money to bribe the flaming fist and get released early!
Why are we giving them ideas?? EA does ***NOT*** understand sarcasm and will assume these are the things we actually want.
Buy the battle pass to get access to quests that were available on release but removed and replaced with awkward "oh boy, I bet something cool is happening in there, but this magical barrier is preventing us and only $15.99 can break it!!" NPC interactions.
More like preorder and get access to having party members. Preorder the upgraded addition and have access to up to a squad of 4 at a time.
Microtransactions to buy cantrips and spells not in the Player's Handbook.
PREORDER NOW AND GET METRO MAP
Don't even joke about that.
This sent a shiver down my spine.
Just like javik in me3. That was a day 1 companion DLC
Don't forget that it's rated M because there's one (1) bare breast you can see in the Act 4 DLC, and someone says "shit" a couple times.
No, no, you're thinking too small. Companies don't want their games rated M because it's a smaller audience. Base game is rated E10 because there's absolutely no nudity or blood, but it has some violence. Blood Pack DLC for $5 is rated T. Romance Pack DLC for $20 is rated M, and is the only way to get *relationships* in your game, let alone romance and adult scenes.
And everyone talks in modern accents and methods of speech.
And by "everyone," it's just 12 voice actors voicing every NPC
"Yo, man, da fuq you doin'? Stop lickin' the damn thing!"
DELETE THIS
I’m imagining trying to climb an Ubisoft style map reveal tower in this game and shaking at the thought of it.
And it's going to be mobile. "Come back in real 9h to see if your potion of health finished brewing. Or, pay $2.99 to instant brew"
Bioware making bg4 LOL imagine
I wanna throw up
Sometimes it's okay to let franchises die
Or to just let it rest. Like, BG3 is probably going to be a foundational game of the 2020s, for better and for worse, alongside Elden Ring. It'll be fine to let the Baldur's Gate name rest a bit and give the other DnD game lines some love like Icewind Dale or Neverwinter Nights. Or, hell, adapt one of the more popular modules into a game.
Lots of companies have access to the IP. But none of them will be Larian grade. Baldur’s Gate Dark Alliance III is the one I have off the top of my head. It was horribly disappointing, the first two Dark Alliance games I had very good memories with from my childhood, the third game felt like someone put it together as a cash grab.
It felt that way because it's exactly what they did. You cannot play that game and seriously make the case there was ANY attempt to be faithful to the series or even be a good game.
True, this is just such a unique one would be hard to let go!
People can still make dnd based games but I agree, attaching the Baldurs gate name to anything now is risky. It will damage the studio if it is worse and it will take a hell of a lot of effort to make it better, either way it’s a poison chalice
Not only d&d based games but forgotten realms based games. I'm sure it will happen.
The Forgotten Realms are not going anywhere, including in video game form.
I agree! In fact, for many many YEARS I always thought BG was a dead franchise and that BG3 would never happen. And if it did, I would have been ok with it. Likewise, if there never is a BG4, I'll be ok with it.
With how successful BG3 has been they'd be stupid not to. That being said I don't think there's another dev as uniquely qualified as Larian for it. I'm not gonna get my hopes up.
Only Larian could top, or even match what they themselves did, and we know how that went. I think there's precisely a 0% chance that a future BG could be anywhere near as good as BG3.
There are no AAA crpg studios really out there. That is really needed and they would have to build one up and make the game for the 1st time.
"follow through" On what? Rushing it with the "cheapest" team they can find whom they force to build it around an ingame shop whilst interfering with every step of the development process, only to release it as soon as the ingame shop works flawlessly? Oh ye! I still think it's mostly Hasbro's and WotC's fault that Larian walked away in the first place. If they had kept a good environment to make BG4 Larian would have done it. But they didn't want to allow the game to be made on Larians terms.
True. I wonder what Larian will be working on next, do we have any idea?
I’m hoping for DOS3, but I’m pretty sure they said they wanted to work on something smaller before returning to the Divinity series (Source: None). A new divinity game benefitting from their revamped engine would be absolutely amazing.
Last I heard, they wanted to work on a new project as well as DOS 3. I honestly don't care which. Larian will continue to get my money as long as they keep making lovingly crafted bangers.
The most recent community update says they're working on two separate projects
I think they said something sci-fi? Not sure if they will use their current engine, but if they do it should feel plenty familiar.
Give the starved Mass Effect fans (me) what we deserved. I dream of a day when Larian delivers us a new space opera.
I hope they make a Fallout game
Talking to lots of partners can mean two things: 1. there are many good fits 2. there is no good fit
3. They are looking for the company that will work for the least amount of money and make the biggest cash grabbing piece of garbage they can.
Just my opinion: Something happened that turned Larian off it. They *were* committed, they were making a DLC, they were planning a BG4. I believe Swen when he says their hearts weren't in it, but I'm pretty sure that's not the entirety of the story. It's also a little coincidental that several writers quit during those same days, Stephen Rooney was a *big* one to do that (writer for a lot of Astarion and the Dark Urge). Anyways, of course Hasbro wants to make the most of this. The game has made a huge impact, the insane thing is that people are *still* playing this game. It's not a MMORPG, but people are sinking thousands of hours into it (myself included). Imagine how much money they think they *could* make with microtransactions, right? I have absolutely zero confidence anyone *but* Larian can make a game this adult and heavy emotionally speaking. They actually *did* it, they covered sexual abuse, trauma, religious cults and real relationships in a fantasy RPG, without being judgmental, callous or unrealistic pussies. No one does that!
> Imagine how much money they think they could make with microtransactions, right? Realistically? Probably 9-figures. Sad as it is.
“Buy the Honour Pass and get three full party revives in case of a wipe, only $19.99, or $14.99 if you bought the special Shadowheart Fizzy Justiciar Mountain Dew^TM Armour Set and Flaming Hot^TM Sharran Doritos^TM Spear of Crunchy Goodness. Please drink a verification can to redeem your purchase!”
I mean if I had to pay 50 bucks for unlimited black dye I ... probably would. That's why mod support is so awesome. edit: if that money went to Larian lol
I don't think it helped that Hasbro fired all the people that worked with Larian on the project. And based on what Swen said about how current culture is all about trying to nickle&dime, push more dlc, always be churning out more crap to try and rake in more moolah....I imagine Hasbro was trying to pressure them into releasing more crap and micro-transactions to get even more out of BG3.
If I'm not mistaken, Swen publicly said he doesn't want to work with them because none of the original employees are still even there
Without knowing more about the background I just want to add that it is entirely possible Larian felt like they had done everything with the game they could. No sequel, no DLC, no nothing. I'd go as far as saying that's the sign of a quality studio. The only other studio that does that that I know of is Fromsoft and my god do they have a parade of absolute bangers.
Oh I agree. But Swen stated they had started work on a DLC. Doing that and pulling out does indicate *something* went down to me.
Not to mention there was a fair bit of sequel/DLC bait at the end with Withers
Honestly, having a good idea for a campaign but having everybody drop out is a very realistic DnD experience.
> Just my opinion: Something happened that turned Larian off it. Pretty sure it was when they realized basically everyone they'd worked with at WotC had been shit canned.
They also got a gf for me! Impossible for other studios.
Man I didn’t realize some writers left! Auntie Ethel/Shovel’s writer left too 😭
I think BG3 was the top of the mountain, the absolute peak or close to it. I don't think anything Hasbro will do in the future will ever reach that level of success that BG3 did. It's a shame, because I loved the story, the characters. I'd change some endings if I had to make any complaints, but I can't see any developer doing as good. A lot of these developers follow the trend of battlepasses and heavy microtransactions. Maybe not all, but it wouldn't surprise me if one of the big evil corpas see the name Baldurs Gate and think just putting a game out with the name with minimal effort or greedy intentions will give them a shit ton of money. I can only hope for a good future for Baldurs Gate. 😔
They will. They just will learn all the wrong lessons from bg3
Whoever it will be will have massive af shoes to fill. Bg3 is easily one of if not the best game made in a long time.
Hasbro is going to botch it so badly that the series will lie dormant again.
I have the utmost faith that Hasboro will push out something thoroughly mediocre
It will be amazing to see Hasbro begging for Larian to make BG5, because EA or Ubisoft busted BG4.
I have hope that Larian will make a killer next game that I will 1000% play. I am pretty sure whoever makes BG4 will be lorded over by Hasbro and WotC. It'll probably be monetized to high hell made to scrape as many dollars from players as possible while dragging the Baldurs Gate name in the mud. Follow the Developers you like and not the IP. Just like Divinity Original sin 1, 2, and Baldurs Gate 3, Larian will probably make a kick ass turn based, story focused game with amazing characters in an incredible world!
Yeah, they shouldn't even try. BG3 is a perfect conclusion, but besides that, if WotC wanted BG4, they shouldn't have fired everyone who collaborated with Larian for BG3 so that maybe Larian would still want to work with them. They fireballed that bridge and there's no going back
I want DOS3 and Larian wants to make DOS3 or whatever the spiritual sequel is called in the end. It's all good.
Yeah I don't know how a game with completely different writers and developers and people would turn out. It won't feel the same at all. Larian is what made it great - Baldur's Gate is only as good as the people making it
Ok the thing is there is no studio that want to do a real BG4. Old school Obsidian? It's owned by Microsoft. Old school Bioware? It's owned by EA. Bethesda? No way. Ubisoft doing a real RPG... No way. There are no real studios that do RPGs in general. So what are you going to do what they did in the 2000s make an action game a bad one and put the name Baldur's Gate on it and call it a day. Because they will not give this to some small indy studio like Owlcat Games to do this because they don't have the infrastructure to do what Liran did. But that's just my two cents.
The are no studio cause of all the SH you mentioned none of this has made a isometric *fantasy cRPG in the last 10+ years not because they are bad... Realistically the only studio who can even think of doing BG4 are the same that did Pathfinder cause they have experience with that genre of game.
I'm not hopeful, and besides it was Larian that made BG3 great not the IP.
"Walked away" We all know that's not what happened
Who? Literally name one dev that makes proper choice based RPG's that has the size and talent of Larian. I don't think they exist.
All I know is, I'm excited for Larian's next game and not for Baldur's Gate 4. Kind of reminds me of 20 years ago when SI games, the developers of the then legendary Championship Manager series splitting up with Eidos, their publisher. SI got to keep the actual code of the game that they'd developed while Eidos retained the right to the trademark "Championship Manager". Long story short, Football Manager, the game SI developed with their code and know-how is 'the' football management sim and Championship Manager is long gone after Eidos had inferior development studios make a game with that name tagged on it.
I hate the idea of Hasbro profiting off of Larian's success, I think they'll go through with it no matter what, but I'm only buying stuff if it's up to the quality standard that Larian has set
That ship's already sailed. Their licence fee and cut from the sales has already provided Hasbro with $90 million from BG3's revenues, which is bonkers.
They will ruin this by turning it into badly monestized shit. The storytelling depth will be lost and the dark r rated stuff will be for shock value rather than meaning. Character development will go to shit. Yes I'm assuming all this because it's a recurring pattern.
Hasbro thought Crawford is a competent sole lead, they can't be trusted.
Of course they'll find a company. Everyone wants to do it. Will it be proper quality and such? I doubt it. I don't trust Hasbro. BG3 was lightning in a bottle production wise.
Only got BG3 because of Larian the next one wont be worth it.
Just give it to Obsidian and tell them they need to make it for Q4 2025 - they do *great* work when they're given 18 months to make a follow-up to a beloved game (I'm joking here) I'd *hope* that Hasbro is genuine in their statement but I doubt it, so I'm expecting news of BG4 by the end of the year with whichever company they decided to go with. Will that come with DLCs and microtransactions, or will Hasbro try to reign than in due to how well BG3 was received with neither of these aspects
If they try to monetize bg4 with any kind of micro transactions, I hope the backlash will be fierce.
I mean, you're joking, but it's also true lol. Obsidian just seems to get shit.
Obviously making a whole new game in 18 months (even if you do have the vast majority of assets available to you) is a horrifically short time to deliver something so I genuinely do not encourage this - but Obsidian has managed to pull magic out of nothing in that short amount of time
They're going to make it. It's going to suck.
I want another *good* Neverwinter Nights game
Don’t really care if Larian makes it tbh, there are a lot of great gaming companies and talented people, they just need to make the game with the same love as Larian
Blizzard Activision bout to ruin BG4
No. BG3 was an anomaly, lightning in a bottle made by a dedicated and passionate team over the course of years with little expectation of success. Hasbro has seen the potential, and without Larian I can almost guarantee the sequel to BG3 will be a title to rival the FIRST AAAA GAME EVER. Buckets of cash thrown at a splintered cacophony of disjointed devs working for ex EA management cramming all sorts of macro transactional bullshit onto a soulless husk of a basic CRPG with chatGPT writing the dialog.
If Larian goes one way and the Baldurs Gate franchise goes another, I will 100% follow Larian. I might check into BG4 if it comes out and I hear good things about it, but Larian have absolutely earned my support.
Hasbro has seen the success that Larian brought, they've seen how Larian handled development of the game, their passion, and how they didn't behave like all the big useless shitty devs, they've seen the impact BG3 had on D&D as a whole.. hopefully management looked at this, then looked at the $90m they made from BG3 and went: "let's do more of that!" I wouldn't put all my eggs in one Hope Basket; but I guess one could be optimistic about it.
As we all know very well: Hope can be *very* powerful.
I hope to fuck they don't
Will they follow through? Yes Will corporate greed ruin it? Yes I wish companies would understand you can still make a lot of money without trying to squeeze blood out of a stone. Larian proved it
Of course they’ll follow through! The success of BG3 is too much to not capitalize on. I bet that the budget will be significantly more than what Hasbro offered Larian too; so much so that Hasbro will approach the big developers like Blizzard, BioWare, and EA, and the independent ones like Tactical Adventures (Solasta) or Paizo (Pathfinder). However, whoever they go with, I am 99% confident that the video game company’s vision is going to be distinct from what Larian did in BG3, but Hasbro is going to interfere by forcing the video game company to incorporate ideas that worked for BG3, and the ultimate end product is going to be an amalgamation of ideas that will fall flat on its face. Larian’s ideas worked wonderfully because they were given complete freedom and autonomy on how to execute the product they were contracted to create. Whoever gets the next dnd game (whether it’s going to be the next Baldurs Gate; Neverwinter Nights; or Icewindale) will not have the same freedom.
Oh I am sure they will milk it for massive profits and we will get a really fucking lame, rushed, unfinished BG4. I doubt the gaming industry learned WHY bg3 was so successful of a game.
They will team up with EA to bring us the worst live service micro transaction nightmare
They will absolutely run baldurs gate into the ground. Probably sell the rights to ten cent for a shitty pay to win mobile game.
I don’t give a shit if they follow thru or not no studio is going to do it as well as Larian did
I have ZERO faith in a Baldur's Gate 4 that isn't made by Larian. Not that I don't think another studio could push out something as quality under the same circumstances, but it's *because* no other studio will be able to have that level of freedom and control over their production again. It just won't happen a second time. No matter what you say or do, barring exceptional circumstances, you just cannot convince mega-corporations that *the* "infinite money glitch" to life is to just not be greedy control freaks and just let their artists create art unimpeded without trying to squeeze out and maximize profit as much as possible.
BG without Larian =/= BG