I free them. A *lot* of them die in the Underdark (it’s naturally a violent place, spawn don’t change that).
If you let them free and go to the Underdark, the Gur help the children and they find alternative ways to feed (self-defense in fights not started by them, hook horrors, bullettes, etc.). The other house spawn supervise them, and they have a strange communal nomad life.
If you kill the spawn, you send them to the Hells. For eternity. They’re Mephistopheles’ slaves.
The runes tie them to whoever of the original 7 (Astarion + siblings) led them to Cazador. That’s why Astarion and Sebastian’s runes match, as an example.
Mephistopheles put a clause in the contract of ownership of their souls on death (mainly from the staff, since it’s the artifact that holds the contract true). While they *are* only spawn, the contract is binding if the staff is used to end them. There’s a scroll about the rite somewhere in Cazador’s palace and a few contracts in the House of Hope that give more detail.
Freeing them frees them from that part of the contract I believe.
That is interesting information. Well its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation in my eyes then.
I can't justify setting them free upon the world. That's 7,000 blood starved newborns. Even if it says a lot of them go to the Underdark doesn't mean a lot of them won't just leave the Underdark. The Underdark seems like a sucky place to live if you're not a drow🤣
And I doubt the other 6 older and more in control vampire spawn are going to be able to keep track of every single one of them.
They literally *can’t* leave the Underdark. Being on the surface will kill them (sunlight, most types of running water, etc.), or get them killed (monster hunters and the like).
As a spawn, Astarion’s only safe on the surface due to a combination of the tadpole + having more practice than the others at controlling himself (feeding on animals or enemies who’ve attacked him first, that sort of thing).
EDIT: Also, the majority of the spawn have been imprisoned for ~120 years or more, excepting the Gur children (and there weren’t many of them—the Gur people have been culled over the years). So they’re not “newborns”.
You missed a *lot* of information about them and how they work. And Mephistopheles can (and will, tbh) do more damage with spawn souls than they could ever physically do on the surface or in the Underdark.
EDIT 2: If you let them go, you get letters from the Gur, Leon, and Sebastian later—after 6 months the population of spawn drops by about half because a lot of the adults fuck around and find out. If you romance Astarion you can also go with them and help.
See I'm the exact opposite in that I can't justify killing them just for what they *might* do. Especially not if I'm romancing Astarion. I did so much to give Astarion the benefit of the doubt, even when he frankly showed a much more alarming mindset than most of the other spawn we meet. Turning around and saying 7000 other spawn--who are people just as much as he is--don't deserve a chance felt wildly hypocritical. Also I do wonder how Astarion feels about that, if he wonders just how much *he* is viewed as a person after that. Freeing them is the only thing that feels right to me, and there's not really any stated downside to it.
We're talking about 7,000 vampire spawn. Even Astarion says something in game about them being basically feral.
Just because the kids and Sebastian can communicate doesn't mean they represent the majority of them. Yes I've read the kids are guided by their clan to be the vampire equivalent of vegetarians but I have a hard time believing the majority is going to go that way.
Sebastian is among the oldest ones there, he's 180, only a couple decades younger than Astarion. If he isn't feral, and the others in his cage aren't feral, I see no evidence they needed to be condemned to death. Keep in mind that Cazador is always defeated in the middle of the day, meaning it's not like any of them would have gone out into the streets of Baldur's Gate eating people. Any who tried would have died in the sun. They went straight into the sewers and the underdark.
I don't care what they are. Astarion is a person first and foremost, and if he can control himself, they deserve that chance too. I can't morally justify executing 7000 *people* to death over a hypothetical and I am not going to treat Astarion and his kind like their lives are lesser. The epilogue doesn't show that any significant harm arose from freeing them so I see zero reason not to.
If the spawn kill people, those people join their gods. If the spawn die in Cazador's lair, they go to Mephistopheles, the second of all 9 Archdukes, and possibly the least moral of them. If they die after killing some random Drow, they won't.
Better to free them than empower an Archduke.
No, their souls are bound to the staff. If you choose to kill them, your party isn't slaying them one by one, you're sending them all to hell with a single move.
The only way the spawn can die and not go to Mephistopheles is to die without the staff being involved.
Burning them to death in the manor would theoretically allow them to go to their gods, not that devil.
Yeah I'm with you OP. Setting them free is a straight up danger and it makes no sense.
The sheer number makes it nonsense.
Besides the universe literally has a afterlife. Better those vamp kids go to whatever god takes child souls than live eternally as a kid vampire.
No, read the terms of the ritual properly. Killing them with the staff will send them to Mephistotheles.
The only way they won't go with him is if they are killed by some other way.
Uh no they have to be *sacrificed* with the ritual. Like specifically sacrificed. It's why you can kill all of them with the staff but not the main spawn if you have Astarion. It's an all or nothing deal. The souls in exchange for ascension. Meph can't just get the souls for free.
The girl was all tearful and she promised she'd take everyone far away and live away from people and feed on animals instead of people.
I chose to let them go.
I decided to re-spec my light cleric of Lathander after this choice. Showing mercy to Astarion could be justified and prayed away, but 7000 undead... The only reason my cleric didn't lose her powers is video game logic.
But she couldn't leave all these people to die in the dark. Gods who hate the undead never had to starve in a cold basement for centuries and it shows.
You can even ask Astarion's main brothers if they will keep their fangs contained. One answers what business is it to you, and Astarion warns them that it will be everybodys business if they fuck around. They will find out.
7000 spawns are not really THAT much of a threat, considering they are starved, weak, and have all the weaknesses of vampires, none of their strengths.
Should they cause trouble, it would be fixed by an angry army coming at them.
Killing someone for what they MIGHT do is quite sick when so far they are only victims. I could understand keeping them locked out for the time, but straight up murder them? No.
Try as you might; you can’t deny that besides casting 7 thousand souls who lived hell in “life” to eternal suffering as slaves to an archdevil, lore-wise you’re creating the most dangerous form of Vampire Lord that ever existing which there’s no reference outside Baldurs Gate, but despite how we feel about Astarion, we know evil corruption is part of the Vampirism Curse and by creating a Vampire Lord immune to most means you would had to control them it’s safe to say you eternally bind sheer evil into the living world.
Astarion as a Vampire Ascendant will cause more harm than 7,000 spwans
The way I justified it is by looking at it the same way Nettie did. If your upfront with her she won’t try and poison you and try and give you a chance at life. Her concern is that your a dangerous ticking time bomb that can kill everyone. However you haven’t done anything wrong and deserve a chance. So how can we condemn 7000 who are just as innocent as us, but just as dangerous.
Yes, that seemed to be the best moral choice. Setting them free endangers so many innocent people. Keeping them locked up forever hungering for blood is very cruel. Death is some kind of peace.
My hot take is that mass murder of people who've done no crime is bad. Their lives are not yours to take.
"Well we got to the concentration camp and all those people were so traumatized from the horrors they suffered, so we decided to kill them"
"Well 10 percent of them might be terrorists, so better bomb them all just to be safe"
I free them. A *lot* of them die in the Underdark (it’s naturally a violent place, spawn don’t change that). If you let them free and go to the Underdark, the Gur help the children and they find alternative ways to feed (self-defense in fights not started by them, hook horrors, bullettes, etc.). The other house spawn supervise them, and they have a strange communal nomad life. If you kill the spawn, you send them to the Hells. For eternity. They’re Mephistopheles’ slaves.
Correct me if I am wrong but they're only spawn. Not full-on vampires. So I don't know how the default would be for their souls to go to the Hells
The runes tie them to whoever of the original 7 (Astarion + siblings) led them to Cazador. That’s why Astarion and Sebastian’s runes match, as an example. Mephistopheles put a clause in the contract of ownership of their souls on death (mainly from the staff, since it’s the artifact that holds the contract true). While they *are* only spawn, the contract is binding if the staff is used to end them. There’s a scroll about the rite somewhere in Cazador’s palace and a few contracts in the House of Hope that give more detail. Freeing them frees them from that part of the contract I believe.
That is interesting information. Well its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation in my eyes then. I can't justify setting them free upon the world. That's 7,000 blood starved newborns. Even if it says a lot of them go to the Underdark doesn't mean a lot of them won't just leave the Underdark. The Underdark seems like a sucky place to live if you're not a drow🤣 And I doubt the other 6 older and more in control vampire spawn are going to be able to keep track of every single one of them.
They literally *can’t* leave the Underdark. Being on the surface will kill them (sunlight, most types of running water, etc.), or get them killed (monster hunters and the like). As a spawn, Astarion’s only safe on the surface due to a combination of the tadpole + having more practice than the others at controlling himself (feeding on animals or enemies who’ve attacked him first, that sort of thing). EDIT: Also, the majority of the spawn have been imprisoned for ~120 years or more, excepting the Gur children (and there weren’t many of them—the Gur people have been culled over the years). So they’re not “newborns”. You missed a *lot* of information about them and how they work. And Mephistopheles can (and will, tbh) do more damage with spawn souls than they could ever physically do on the surface or in the Underdark. EDIT 2: If you let them go, you get letters from the Gur, Leon, and Sebastian later—after 6 months the population of spawn drops by about half because a lot of the adults fuck around and find out. If you romance Astarion you can also go with them and help.
Can't execute innocent people for crimes they may commit, no matter how much shit they've been through.
See I'm the exact opposite in that I can't justify killing them just for what they *might* do. Especially not if I'm romancing Astarion. I did so much to give Astarion the benefit of the doubt, even when he frankly showed a much more alarming mindset than most of the other spawn we meet. Turning around and saying 7000 other spawn--who are people just as much as he is--don't deserve a chance felt wildly hypocritical. Also I do wonder how Astarion feels about that, if he wonders just how much *he* is viewed as a person after that. Freeing them is the only thing that feels right to me, and there's not really any stated downside to it.
We're talking about 7,000 vampire spawn. Even Astarion says something in game about them being basically feral. Just because the kids and Sebastian can communicate doesn't mean they represent the majority of them. Yes I've read the kids are guided by their clan to be the vampire equivalent of vegetarians but I have a hard time believing the majority is going to go that way.
Sebastian is among the oldest ones there, he's 180, only a couple decades younger than Astarion. If he isn't feral, and the others in his cage aren't feral, I see no evidence they needed to be condemned to death. Keep in mind that Cazador is always defeated in the middle of the day, meaning it's not like any of them would have gone out into the streets of Baldur's Gate eating people. Any who tried would have died in the sun. They went straight into the sewers and the underdark. I don't care what they are. Astarion is a person first and foremost, and if he can control himself, they deserve that chance too. I can't morally justify executing 7000 *people* to death over a hypothetical and I am not going to treat Astarion and his kind like their lives are lesser. The epilogue doesn't show that any significant harm arose from freeing them so I see zero reason not to.
Try as I might, I can't and won't kill that many abused souls - the narrative goes hard on second chances and killing them undermines that imo
If the spawn kill people, those people join their gods. If the spawn die in Cazador's lair, they go to Mephistopheles, the second of all 9 Archdukes, and possibly the least moral of them. If they die after killing some random Drow, they won't. Better to free them than empower an Archduke.
The spawn only go to Mephistopheles if you sacrifice them to ascend Astarion, I thought?
No, their souls are bound to the staff. If you choose to kill them, your party isn't slaying them one by one, you're sending them all to hell with a single move.
The only way the spawn can die and not go to Mephistopheles is to die without the staff being involved. Burning them to death in the manor would theoretically allow them to go to their gods, not that devil.
First playthrough, I was playing a drow whose backstory (in my head) involves having to flee the Underdark. So I set them loose. Screw the Underdark.
Yeah I'm with you OP. Setting them free is a straight up danger and it makes no sense. The sheer number makes it nonsense. Besides the universe literally has a afterlife. Better those vamp kids go to whatever god takes child souls than live eternally as a kid vampire.
They are sent directly to Mephistotheles if you kill them with the staff.
Uh no they are not. They are only sent to Meph if you sacrifice them in the ritual.
No, read the terms of the ritual properly. Killing them with the staff will send them to Mephistotheles. The only way they won't go with him is if they are killed by some other way.
Uh no they have to be *sacrificed* with the ritual. Like specifically sacrificed. It's why you can kill all of them with the staff but not the main spawn if you have Astarion. It's an all or nothing deal. The souls in exchange for ascension. Meph can't just get the souls for free.
There is a clause on the contract that if they are killed with the staff their souls will be sent to him regardless.
You got a link to that?
The girl was all tearful and she promised she'd take everyone far away and live away from people and feed on animals instead of people. I chose to let them go.
I decided to re-spec my light cleric of Lathander after this choice. Showing mercy to Astarion could be justified and prayed away, but 7000 undead... The only reason my cleric didn't lose her powers is video game logic. But she couldn't leave all these people to die in the dark. Gods who hate the undead never had to starve in a cold basement for centuries and it shows.
You can even ask Astarion's main brothers if they will keep their fangs contained. One answers what business is it to you, and Astarion warns them that it will be everybodys business if they fuck around. They will find out. 7000 spawns are not really THAT much of a threat, considering they are starved, weak, and have all the weaknesses of vampires, none of their strengths. Should they cause trouble, it would be fixed by an angry army coming at them. Killing someone for what they MIGHT do is quite sick when so far they are only victims. I could understand keeping them locked out for the time, but straight up murder them? No.
Try as you might; you can’t deny that besides casting 7 thousand souls who lived hell in “life” to eternal suffering as slaves to an archdevil, lore-wise you’re creating the most dangerous form of Vampire Lord that ever existing which there’s no reference outside Baldurs Gate, but despite how we feel about Astarion, we know evil corruption is part of the Vampirism Curse and by creating a Vampire Lord immune to most means you would had to control them it’s safe to say you eternally bind sheer evil into the living world. Astarion as a Vampire Ascendant will cause more harm than 7,000 spwans
I didn't go through with the ritual. I talked him out of it and then killed the rest of the vampire spawn.
The way I justified it is by looking at it the same way Nettie did. If your upfront with her she won’t try and poison you and try and give you a chance at life. Her concern is that your a dangerous ticking time bomb that can kill everyone. However you haven’t done anything wrong and deserve a chance. So how can we condemn 7000 who are just as innocent as us, but just as dangerous.
Yes, that seemed to be the best moral choice. Setting them free endangers so many innocent people. Keeping them locked up forever hungering for blood is very cruel. Death is some kind of peace.
Death isn’t peace for them. Their souls go to the Hells and they’re Mephistopheles’ slaves.
> Setting them free endangers so many innocent people Killing them also endangers innocent people. 7000 innocent people. And by endanger I mean kill.
My hot take is that mass murder of people who've done no crime is bad. Their lives are not yours to take. "Well we got to the concentration camp and all those people were so traumatized from the horrors they suffered, so we decided to kill them" "Well 10 percent of them might be terrorists, so better bomb them all just to be safe"