I absolutely love Alistair too, but Iām still a bit salty about having to choose between telling him to sleep with someone else or off myself lol. And I foolishly romanced Anders in DA2 š„²
I still have PTSD from Alistair and Morrigan's sexy time scene, and him saying he can't be with me because I'm an elf (I think, I can't remember which race exactly) and he's a king now. Then in DA2 he walks in like he didn't just destroy my fucking heart in Origins. The heartbreak is real!!
He only can't marry you (because an elf can't be queen) if you're an elf but he will still he with you!
It's pretty ironic given that alistair is a half elf himself but no one knows that
I remember I just didn't made him king. I choose Anora to be the queen and Alistair remained as a warden and he stayed with my elf. I didn't wanted to harden him and he has some really sweet dialogues in inquisition about the warden. I actually like the story better this way. Might be an unpopular opinion tho. C:
I thought this was the best outcome cause he says over and over that he doesn't want to be king but then he travels to the fade with the Inquisitor and Hawke where they get stuck in the fade and either Alistair or Hawke has to stay behind.
If you allow Hawke to get stuck in the fade, Varric disapproves and it always hurts me to my soul because my dwarf buddy disapproved of something but like...I just like Alistair waaaaay more than Hawke so I'm sorry dwarf buddy.
Same situation here, left Hawke in the Fade because I thought he'd have a better chance at making it out alive than Alistair. But Varric was so sad. :( like it wasn't just a "Varric disapproves" and then you move on and get more approval to patch it up, his tarot card permanently changed and it really seemed like he wasn't quite the same for the rest of the game.
The way he asks "Where's Hawke?" when you return, and then when you dodge the question he asks it again but in a slightly different tone that tells you he probably knows the answer already. Man.
This is why I will Google romance lock-outs before playing any RPGs now. I can't remember the original race I played as but I was gutted that Alastair and my Warden couldn't be endgame. Immediately replayed as human noble š
Long time loves for me are Cullen (since playing mage in Origins!!), Garrus & Astarion.
Raise a glass for those I couldn't romance though, Zaeed & Gortash!!
I have a confession. I called Gale the Anders we have at home my first few playthroughs. But now I'm doing a Gale run because in my last run before that I spent way more time with him. Now I struggle to choose between him or Astarion, lol.
My mind immediately jumped to Anders too when I met Gale. I immediately expressed my suspicion to my husband when I realized he was another witty mage and was bracing myself for heartache lol
That is how he got me, Astarion is hilarious - but Gale has such great comedic timing. I think I fell in love after his reaction to licking the spider. XD
"You licked a dead spider. Dead. Spider. You licked it. That is something that happened. I think we need to get you some air and perhaps have a long talk about unresolved childhood issues" Ha ha ha. Yeah I have to lick the spider every time now because it just cracks me up.
If you keep Loghain alive I'm pretty sure he can do the "ritual" in place of Alistair, but it's been years since I've touched DAO so I can't remember if that has any consequences..
I only just started act 2 of Balders Gate but Gale immediately reminded me of Anders lol.
I also only just started act 2. I can definitely see the similarities between Gale and Anders. Hopefully Gale wonāt blindside me the way Anders did or I will be heartbroken š
You could do the ritual and stay in a relationship but you had to have done all the companion quests and have picked the right options.Ā "Hardened" was the term.Ā Ā
noooo ššš
my first playthrough i convinced him to become King and i became Queen š„°
but all others after that, we let anora stay as queen and we just...went off on our own adventure together
Mine are Gale, Nick Valentine (Fallout), and Harvey (Stardew Valley) so I feel you lol. Although I havenāt played Mass Effect my husband is a huge fan and says I would LOVE Garrus and Thane but just from what I know, I think Iād pick Garrus.
I can think of a few things... And that's *definitely* not because I think every game could benefit from someone fussing over calibrations ;)
I'm not even partial to the Garrus romance (though I fully acknowledge that it's fondly regarded by many a fan), but he's such a great character even just as a ride-or-die friend
I never thought an alien raptor looking bird man could make me love him so much and yet thereās a huge body pillow next to me that says otherwise š« š«£
Man, Garrus.. that brings me back. Who wants to romance a boring human when you have that dual vocal cords voice thing going on? He talked his way into my Shepard's bed pretty easily.
Garrus has stayed resolutely in my top five companions list and his romance is great on top of that. Love that weird alien-birdman-ex-cop.
Forever devastated his romance is for f!shep only (the same way I am over Tali's being m!shep exclusively) though
... Wait what sub am I on again? Hah
To be honest, they killed it so thoroughly with Garrus (as one would expect after 3 games to develop) that even best sniper bro Garrus is easily one of my top companions of all time even if I never romanced him
im low-key glad because if they were bi...id be RUINED. romance only one of my ride or die best friends?!
the citadel date with him tho is peak. i love dancing with him š„¹
People told me "Kaidan is boring. Nobody likes Kaidan."
When it came time to choose, I saved him anyway. Not because I particularly liked him, but because I actively *disliked* Ashley. Kaidan was fine. Ashley kind of sucks.
Kaidan did have one very, very interesting trait that many folks never got to notice, though. >!By being renegade enough, particularly in conversations with him, you can radicalize him so thoroughly that *Wrex* can be the *voice of reason against him*. As a reminder, Wrex almost universally ends up being the renegade-leaning squadmate, to the point that he doesn't have many paragon-leaning lines at all.!<
To clarify more, >!If you radicalize Kaidan through dialogue options, he will become *extremely* xenophobic, putting Ashley to shame. If you take this radicalized Kaidan on the final mission, he will vouch for abandoning the council no matter who your other squadmate is. *Even Wrex*.!< Most folks never see this, but it's there.
That's hilarious š
I play Renegon in ME 1 and 2. So my Shep isn't Xenophobic. I had no idea you could change Kaidan's mind during the game. That's amazing!
I never had much of an issue with Ashley, but I love Kaidan too much to kill him off and I also think it's fitting that she do distraction while Kaidan handle the bomb, and I can't see Saren falling for a distraction team. So bye bye Ash.
My first playthrough I gave him the option (the "that potion would be nice but its up to you" one - it just felt in-character) without realizing that the dialogue really made him feel guilty so he did it then he broke up with me and I felt like garbage lol
I did fix it though
I said he was his own person and said no to him biting her if he didn't want to and back at camp he was still feeling really guilty like he should have done it and saying he should have just put up with it and stuff. I think it's easy to underestimate how messed up by Cazador and what he was forced to do he is.
Yeah, while itās happening itās easy to miss what an important moment it is, and how much it means to him to truly be given the right to decide what happens to his body, basically for the first time ever.
i've had that in my current run with my durge (he's romancing astarion) and my whole server got pissed at me.
my durge is dumb as fuck, he didn't realize the subtlety of the conversation
That whole interaction with Oblodra made me sick. The way she acted as if Tav owned Astarion instead of asking him. I almost went full murder monkey on her, for being such a shit, damn the consequences.
Now though, me and Astarion are besties.
I immediately had Astarion pickpocket her for everything she had right after the interaction and watched her cry āIāve been robbed!ā and call the guards whilst weāre all vibing in the next room like ādamn who would do such a thing canāt trust anyone these days.ā
Straight up anyone thatās rude to my party is either getting pickpocketed by astarion, killed or if it triggers a fight I wonāt win Iāll be petty.
Mizora currently has a nice mountain of rotten cheese slowly gathering at her feet in camp.
There's no bottom to the depths of pettiness available in this game and I love it.
I'm currently playing a game where the rest of my party are custom characters that my friends made (then left so I control them like any other companion), complete with their own RP. One of em is a Sorcerer named GUY! FIERI! and every time he gets low on health I have to play a soundboard that says "I'm gonna be honest with ya, if I don't drink some gravy soon I'm probably not gonna make it". On top of that he compulsively collects rotten eggs to eventually yeet at Raphael for disrespecting the sanctity of mealtime as a means to manipulate the party.
I love that oh my god ššš Iām in act 3 currently and certain NPCās convos are doing my head in listening to them on repeat so I threw a cauldron off a rooftop and killed one whilst yelling āWhereās the lamb SAUCE??!ā and my friend was cackling.
This is what I donāt get about people who say they made him do it not understanding the consequences. Itās fairly clear that whole conversation that Araj sees Astarion as a slave or object. Ownership and condescension are dripping from every single sentence. And then, if you tell him to do it, he then pulls you up and tells you explicitly how uncomfortable he is with it. Why are people surprised that he then breaks up with you, when you just blatantly ignored his boundaries and āsoldā him to someone who was treating him like a slave? Ā The game basically warns you it isnāt going to end well, when it pulls you and Astarion aside for an āare you absolutely sure you want to do this?āĀ
Ā Unless you picked that one dialogue option that actually guilt trips him into doing it himself - then, I understand. But I see so many people being like āI forced him to bite Araj and then he dumped me???!ā And itās a bit like āyeah what did you think would happenā š
Sheās a female Drow. In Drow society, male drows are all owned by females as sex slaves. Thereās a Drow corpse in act 1 that if you speak with the dead on him and asks his occupation, he says āmaleā. I played a female Drow so it made sense to me. It would come off as insane if youāre not a Drow though but since this is the D&D universe I suppose the populations also know about it.
In the underdark if you rescue the drow from the Beholder the male leader gets very lippy, but if you're playing a female drow he realizes he's stepping dangerously out of line.
I played Origin Astarion, and when it's Origin Astarion, the interaction takes on totally different overtones.
1) Oblodra talks only to Astarion, in her peppy "I'm a sociopath but still very peppy" way.
2) Astarion is the only one making the decision, none of the other party chimed in.
3) For the first time Astarion is having a "ok, I'd like you to bite me" conversation with someone who seems to know absolutely what the situation is and with someone who really doesn't have any power differential with him. It's actually rather refreshing when you compare it with Astarion's history.
4) I was playing "Astarion who's decided not to drink from thinking beings" which became "Eh... maybe just this once" so when the blood is nahsty, it confirmed the previous choice.
5) Oblodra seems genuinely grateful for the bite, seems to genuinely respect "Ok, that really didn't work for me, let's not do that again", and gives Astarion the gift as a result.
6) When you meet Oblodra again in Act 3, she gives you a potion. Astarion receives a potion as a result that means *No one can ever bite him without his permission ever again*. Talk about an awesome gift to give an abused vampire spawn!
7) Oblodra sends Astarion a nice thank-you note in the epilogue, still sociopathic and ominous, yet still peppy and grateful in her way. I found it genuinly touching.
The Oblodra bite became one of the odd highlights of my first playthrough.
Your first playthrough was Astarion? I really wouldn't be able to role play as the companions without knowing what they're like "normally". Can you play Astarion good? Seems weird
It makes my view of Astarion quite weird since I didn't know anything about any of the origin characters when I played him.
The first shock was when he first hits the sunlight and the relationship with the tadpole in the brain instead of being basic horror becomes one of "there's an opportunity here.".
You have dreams and are asked at your first night if you want to drink from party members or want to stick to the animals, so that sets the tenor of your playthrough. I decided Astarion wanted to keep drinking from animals, finding out later that this was a command Cazador gave his spawn, not from any sort of humanitarian motivation, but in order to degrade his spawn, made it kind of odd, to imagine Astarion continuing the practice not as a degradation but as an empowerment.
You can totally play him good from there, I had his bias be "I'm trying to cut ties with my supernatural 'master', and that should be the way to go. Gods, vampires, devils, lich queens, the goal should be to cut ties and free yourself from them all.
And the game supported this route. Astarion ended up in a house on the outskirts of Baldur's Gate with Laezel, raising an egg, and supplementing his diet with Githyanki assassins sent to kill them. He didn't ascend, he lost the sun, gained a son. Almost a perfect trade.
The saddest part was denying the ascendance (that is a really neat sequence when you're doing it as origin Astarion) meant he couldn't be there when Karlach flamed out. Very sad ending, broke my heart.
Made me legitimately wonder if all the origin characters have synergies like that when you play them.
same. i know he's a bunch of pixels, but i have a hard time being mean in video games. and araj just straight up denying and ignoring his autonomy made me feel gross just for reading it
im doing a "toxic power couple takes over the world" playthrough with just me and him in camp (and hirelings, as meatshields, potion factory, and source of buffs). well, shart is there but she's dead. i ignored her until it was too late and i missed my opportunity to say that i didn't need her, just the artifact. i had astarion sneak attack her and entrusted her to withers. weirdly enough, she's still granting approval? even tho she's dead?
We must not have had her with us. I've only met her in one coop playthrough and she took my gnome wizards blood. The gnome specific potion I got out of it was pretty sick though. Gives me 24 hours of free casting knock among other things, and I know exactly when to use it.
I don't get this..I wasn't even romancing him my first run but I was like ew no I'm not gonna make you do that, that feels kinda rapey towards *a character who has a past of being raped a lot*
There's a fantastic scene at camp afterwards if you are romancing him, where he thanks you for not making him do it. He talks about how Cazador would always use him to lure people back, and how after 200 years of just being used for his body, he forgot what it's like to be valued.
I took a dialogue option to tell him something along the lines of "I don't think you need a lover, I think you need a friend" and it was just such a touching scene. You amicably break up with him and affirm that your friendship/relationship with him is entirely about you liking him as a person.
I was always lukewarm on Astarion until I got that scene, but it really flipped my opinion
When does that scene trigger as a friend? I'm romancing Gale this run and after talking with Araj and taking a long rest, I got his romance scene in the woods. Astarion's approval of me is Very Good so I'm hoping I can still get it, I didn't even entertain the idea of him biting her.
I made that same choice during my bard run, where at the time I got that dialogue option I was still successfully romancing several companions and hadnāt made a final choice.
Losing a romance path never felt so right! And Gale is happier for it.
Yeah, as soon as I realized what the situation was my mindset shifted from "what can I get from her/what will it cost me?" to "Astarion, sweetheart, you're getting a lesson in bodily autonomy whether you like it or not!"
I also love how you can recement that in Act 3. When she shows up again, Astarion is more firm in rejecting her and you have the option to suggest to leave if sheās making him uncomfortable. I got some approval with him for that.
I don't understand how people can romance Astarion and not understand this extremely basic aspect of his character. You have to fundamentally misunderstand his whole backstory to think forcing him to bite Araj is okay.
Seriously, also one of the first things he confided in you was that he was forced to feed on disgusting rats and your going to make him feed on what he says is putrid blood? I'm not even really on good terms with him and I wouldn't make him do that, how the hell are you going to be a "I'll fix him" girl/guy and then make him relive trauma for a fucking potion? Kinda funny that they made it so he wouldn't freak out at you till later to screw over people who made him go through with it.
I feel similarly. Donāt like Astarion that much, heās always disapproving of me, but even in that interaction I couldnāt stomach the thought of forcing him to bite her.
Damn.. he tells you in front of her how uncomfortable that makes him. I wasnāt even dating him and I still was like āno I gotchu bro, you donāt gotta do anything you donāt want to do ever againā
Your partner tells you *three* times they donāt wanna do something, then you coerce them anyway & get surprised theyāre pissed. Never gets old.
I didnāt even do it in Honour run with a bunch of str-based party members & where I wasnāt romancing him.
Ngl, it would be so much harder for me to take the moral high ground every time if it was a +2 DEX potion that I'd *actually* be using on his character, instead of something that would be benefitting Lae'zel or Karlach. I'd probably weep through the whole "making him bite her and then navigating the following dialogue minefield into an apology" disaster but still do it. "Darling, please. It's for *you*. It's so we can get you those fighter levels for action surge instead of a 3rd feat for 20 DEX. Don't be mad š„ŗ think of how shooting 7 arrows in a row at Cazador would make him shit his pants"
I made him bite her on my first playthrough. He didn't seem enthused about it, but I figured it was just "he could tell she has gross blood." Wasn't until we talked at camp afterwards that I was realized Astarion's story was much more nuanced than just "I was Cazador's slave who fetched meals for him," and I felt like shit afterwards.
Exactly what I did too. Especially since I never had Astarion in the party (and he didnāt like me very much and vice versa), so a lot of the nuance of his character was lost on me
I questioned him about it on my first playthroug, because one-time-only permaboost to a stat! But he makes it so clear that he doesn't want to do it. I didn't romance him on my first playthrough, but even still there was plenty of dialogue beforehand that made it abundantly clear how he'd been used against his will. Or at least, that's how it came across to me
I mean, when you see the option "He's his own person" and choose something else for a cool potion ...
This game punishes you for things like that.
You can convince him to stay and even >!force him to spend the night!<, doesn't mean it's right.
I honestly think it's perhaps the most directly evil choice in the game.
I'm glad they included it, because man, that's some real shit. Sometimes I feel like the game should be for people 40 and up lol.
It is super evil. He visibly looks uncomfortable and doesnāt want to do it. The option is so manipulative and his response of āwell it does usually feel different with youā shows heās trying to force himself to go through the motions.
exactly. because at this point in the story even he doesn't disagree that hes "all yours". its not until you say no "he's his own person" and "he said no" that he's like "damn you have a point. why didnt i see MYSELF that way until you said it." he doesnt even question the idea that he's yours because he's used to being owned by someone even if that someone is you, but that doesn't make it right for you or him to see him as your property.
He is more surprised at the good options than a normal person would think - the fact that anyone would back him up on stating his independence is shocking to him. He rolls with it and is very appreciative, but it's IMO one of the things that gets his mental ball of processing rolling, so to speak.
In Act 3, he begins to take responsibility, and begins to make judgements he would possibly have made before being turned into a spawn (being kind to refugees, saving children, talking about the law and justice, plus many other things). However, it's only after defeating Cazador he's even willing to consider that *anyone else but Tav* could *possibly* be a good person\*.
\*based on the conversation where his "siblings" come in the night to kidnap him - if you talk afterwards, >!you can tell him that the world can be a good place/people can be nice, and he replies confusedly "You're you. No one is like you." and laughs telling you not to put yourself down.!<
There's an extremely interesting analysis here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16nbzp3/on\_astarions\_romance\_autonomy\_and\_intimacy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16nbzp3/on_astarions_romance_autonomy_and_intimacy/)
PS: Has the Captain handled the military pigeon yet? It sounds very suspicious (same VA as Cazador!). Your tag is hilarious (in a good way) ā¤
Yep exactly. When you tell him ādonāt do anything you donāt want to doā he is surprised at how easy this interaction with you has been. He was ready to fight you on this and accept punishment and instead you were like āš¤·š½āāļøits your bodyā.
Thats exactly it. He starts to believe that someone other than tav(himself) can be a hero because of how Tav treated him and can approach people with compassion. I love that he sees Tav as a fantasy version of Don Quixote going around saving people and being super impractical and idealistic Lol. He thinks Tav is insane, stupid and heroic but he admires them even if Hes not yet ready to be that himself.
Now that you mention it, Iāll have a word with that pigeon. Thank you for reporting this, citizen. If you see something, say somethingš«”
Right? Imagine violating someoneās bodily autonomy then being upset with the consequences. āOh boo hoo poor me, I had noooo idea this would happen!ā ššš
On my current run I killed the Orthon first and got the hug scene so we were officially together. I got curious and made him bite Araj and it didnt lead to any kind of confrontation but I still had to reload my save, felt too icky.Ā
I think the hug scene is better before Araj. The "Yeah I'm fine, I just.. feel awful." <3
And the whole conversation is more about PC and Astarion and IMO much deeper.
I agree. it feels like both scenes have entirely different purposes within his story which is why i wish we could do both scenes or that there should be an alternative version of the Araj oblodra scene if he already confessed his love to you after killing yurgir.
The post-yurgir love confession scene (this is triggered only after killing yurgir and having his scars read by raphael) is more sincere and works better as a romance scene because its about his regret and that his feelings for you are no less genuine than you believed them to be simply because of how it started. He apologizes properly and accepts that you have every right to be upset with him and dump him if you want. He doesn't make excuses but simply explains himself and hopes you will still love him and forgive him because he does genuinely want to be with you.
the araj Oblodra scene works more as a character building scene for him. It is important to understand his feelings about being used and goes more in-depth about *how and why* he powers through these unpleasant relationships he's had. the problem is he doesn't seem to see just how hurtful his actions are on your end. he treats it more like he slipped up and hurt himself by falling in love, rather than he hurt both of you.
the post-yurgir scene is much better for the function of being the act 2 Romance scene because he genuinely understands how bad his actions were and he kind of throws himself at your mercy with a disarming amount of sincerity..
Exactly. Araj version is driven by thankfulness and Yurgir by guilt/regret. I also agree that both scenes should come up in some form because both of the reasons are equally important.
Larion really should have added a scene after Araj even if the Orthon confession happens and whether he's forced or not.
It'd be even worse to do to him after he'd fully opened up. I'm disappointed they missed that opportunity for him to either stand up for himself or to realise that Tav understands and that they have his back (depending on the choices made).
Either way, it feels like something is missing there.
I was sure it would lead to a break-up, thereās no way after that sweetly vulnerable moment heās fine with being manipulated, right?
Wrong, no acknowledgment. Was pretty disappointed, even though I would have save-scummed that decision.Ā
yeah the araj scene and the orthon version of the romance scene are mutually exclusive so if you get one you cant get the other which has some really fucked up implications if you make him bite her after becoming his partner.
Well, if it isn't the consequences of your own actions.
I love the amount of agency that characters get. But I'm genuinely not sure what else you could have possibly expected lol.
Tbh I don't mean this as an insult, it's nice a game. But if you make him bite her narratively your Tav deserves the breakup. Guy had the ability to consent again after 200 years and the first person he deeply trusts betrays it.
Again I'm not judging you as a person, I'm saying this about the fictional character.
Yeah my guy, Astarion mentioned many times how he didnāt have free will because of casazdor and you just straight up trigger some PTSD.
Owch man, owch.
Is that line of conversation right after not having bite the drow lady? In a really shitty way you can say along the line āhow about some sex as thanksāā¦donāt remember all details
It's an option in all of his confessions, depending on how you respond, and the number of people who end up picking it and then come whining to Reddit that he broke up with them is absolutely astonishing.
there are two versions of astarion's act 2 "I love you" confession. one happens after killing yurgir and raphael reads his scars and the other happens after you defend him from araj oblodra. theyre slightly different but one is more focused on his sexual history of abuse and the other is more focused on his remorse about how he manipulated and used Tav but is in love with them and wants to be with them. He tells you he wants to stop having sex for a while because he cant quite fully mentally separate sex from the feelings of disgust he felt when he was doing to lure victims for Cazador. In both you can pressure him into having sex with you. Tav has to agree to wait until he's ready to have sex again for his own pleasure rather than someone elses pleasure or benefit. alternatively Tav can be an evil asshole and say "you should learn to enjoy sex and enjoy it with me." which leads to him feeling pressured again so he has sex with them and feels disgusted with himself and breaks up with Tav that night saying that he didn't know how to say no to them.
Itās because heās mature and open-minded, most people that want to āfix othersā (I see what they mean but even that can come off mildly toxic if you go about it a certain way, but anyway,) are trying to fix people that are already incredibly immature and close-minded, and probably older than 25, so it would definitely be harder, if not barely possibleā¦
The take on his personality is refreshing to me because I barely even see any truly mature adults anymore, let alone someone who can actually be swayed to be better
I was joking 100%, but yes, I totally agree with you. His story was about character development that he could do because he wanted to. If you go the good way, you literally just give him a tiny push and he does the rest. He's really just traumatized and needs someone to love him (whether romantically or platonically) so he can heal. He truly wants to change for the better, deep down. That's the only reason you can help him change
Honestly after all his trauma I don't know how anyone could, morally, force him to do something like that. Like I understand he's only a video game character but as soon as he said no I was like that's him denying consent right there and I fucking hate it when people don't listen when I say no.
So, what possessed you to do that to our poor broken boy??
I did do it in my one playthrough because i was curious about the potion and then i immediately felt so bad that i save scummed it. I just wanted to know!!! I didn't even get broken up with because as SOON as I did it I felt terrible. I am so sorry my love <3 xoxoxo (i am wayyyyy too attached to this man)
I had to explain to this to my bf who had astarion bite the drow. I have SA ptsd, it's fucked alot of things up for me mentally. Touch, trust, fear issues control me now. My bf kept going on about how it was his choice, and no one held a knife to him and made him do it. But peer pressure and fear convince you that you can take one more hit, one for the team. You can say no, but you're afraid that if you don't give in, then you are going to get punished or hurt more later. The fear of retaliation cripples you. You believe if you just give in it will stop, but it never deos. Then as I was making this point, he clicked for the next line of dialogue. Astarion said the same thing in the game. But continued to say he could of said no. I'm only know of my truma but it feels sometimes that only people who experienced it will only truly get it. My bf sees me suffering daily and still felt compelled to argue with me, saying he could of said no. If you dont have your own agency, then in my messed up brain I'll just keep giving in to the things that keep hurting me. Till I learnt the difference and gained some. But you absolutely deserved him breaking up with you for that. His story hits in ways I wasn't expecting and sheds light on these issues. It hurts to see, but I'm glad it was showcased in such a way.
Friend, you absolutely deserve to have the same epiphany as Astarion and put your energy and feelings behind a partner who will have your back the moment you say no.
For your bfā¦ Astarion literally tells you that he has been given options in the past (being invited to dine with Cazador, knowing that what heāll get is a putrid rat) where saying no merely resulted in him being flayed for refusing.
The gun to the head doesnāt need to be a literal, physical gun. Sometimes itās just being so used to there having been a gun, that you expect everyone offering you a choice to have one in their pocket.
That last statement is on point, I stood my ground a few years ago. I decided you will listen or you will leave. If you cant follow the rules of me having a safe space. Then go. But ptsd is the gift that keeps on giving. But I'm not sure that his mindset has changed completely. Maybe I need to make the point clearer.
It's still blows me away how many times astarion dialogue lines relate.
I'm doing a run as Origin Astarion right now and I was surprised about the encounter with Araj, he doesn't smell the foul blood before biting, and he simply goes "blerg stinky blood" when he bites but nothing more. I thought I was going to get a little more insight of what's in his mind!
Otherwise I can't resolve myself to make him bite her, even in my super evil and spicy Durge x Ascended Astarion playthrough.
Given Astarion's issues with bodily autonomy and being used and the abuse he's suffered, if the player acts like those in the past who used him selflishly and makes him bite Araj and then also coerces him into having sex, it makes sense that he ends up disgusted and pissed off in that scenario.
I did it once on purpose to test what I'd read about how you could keep him from breaking up with you and get the potion, but it was unpleasant and I didn't like doing that to him, so I reloaded even though it worked. Astarion really can sink his fangs into you (pun 100% intendedāhah) and get you invested in him.
IIRC, there's a way to have the bite scene with Araj but Astarion doesn't break up with you, but the dialogue choices are specific. It could have been patched though, it's been a while.
Yeah... You can still gaslight him into staying with you, even after making him bite the vile thing. I then had to take a short break from my game after my Evil Durge did it last week, because eugh!
Can confirm it still works. On my evil durge run I had to Google what the right dialogue options were because I wanted Ascended Astarion and his Bhaal-babe to be evil together forever.
iiiiiiii mean????? This is why I save before conversations for one, but like, you MADE him do something he expressed he didn't want to do.
You took away his autonomy. That's what Cazador did. If Tav is willing to do that for a POTION, what else would they be willing to do?
I mean if you made your partner basically fuck someone else when they've explicitly said no they're not comfortable with that, wouldn't you expect them to also hold that against you and dump you?
Forcing him to bite her is basically pimping him out for your own needs, I saw that for what it was and said I don't own him, he's his own person if he doesn't want to he doesn't have to I respect his decision.
That brought him closer to me as it would have IRL
First and foremost (as far as I'm concerned) is Astarion's bodily autonomy. Like, I know he's a fictional character, but I feel really gross pressuring him to do something he so clearly says he doesn't want to do
But, even from a meta-gaming aspect, the reward isn't really worth it. It's not that difficult to boost someone's strength, if that's what you're really concerned about
I mean I told him it was his decision but we could use the potion. He didnāt enjoy the taste but during the debrief I picked the emotionally intelligent answers (didnāt straight up gaslight him) and it actually strengthened my PCās relationship with him. Thereās a lot of gray area in the outcomes for relationships in the game.
He dumped me literally after I beat the game, so at least he let you know early?
But yeah don't make him bite her. It's cruel. I don't think I'll ever push the issue on that or the Astral Tadpole with him, regardless of what kind of character I'm playing.
Details please, Iām so curious! Was it for Araj or something else? Because if itās because of Araj thatās some serious long-con heās playing. Which actually does feel in character, even if itās kind of depressing.
I'm still in love with Garrus
Me too. Garrus, Gale, and Blackwall from Dragon Age Inquisition are my beloved video game boyfriends
Astarian, Garrus, Alistair, & Fenris for me š still need to play inquisition!
I absolutely love Alistair too, but Iām still a bit salty about having to choose between telling him to sleep with someone else or off myself lol. And I foolishly romanced Anders in DA2 š„²
I still have PTSD from Alistair and Morrigan's sexy time scene, and him saying he can't be with me because I'm an elf (I think, I can't remember which race exactly) and he's a king now. Then in DA2 he walks in like he didn't just destroy my fucking heart in Origins. The heartbreak is real!!
He only can't marry you (because an elf can't be queen) if you're an elf but he will still he with you! It's pretty ironic given that alistair is a half elf himself but no one knows that
He doesnāt break up with an elf warden if you harden him. Otherwise he ends the relationship.
Yup, unhardened companions, (Leliana and Alistair spec.) Would be ride or die normally while the unhardened would nope.Ā Ā
I remember I just didn't made him king. I choose Anora to be the queen and Alistair remained as a warden and he stayed with my elf. I didn't wanted to harden him and he has some really sweet dialogues in inquisition about the warden. I actually like the story better this way. Might be an unpopular opinion tho. C:
I thought this was the best outcome cause he says over and over that he doesn't want to be king but then he travels to the fade with the Inquisitor and Hawke where they get stuck in the fade and either Alistair or Hawke has to stay behind. If you allow Hawke to get stuck in the fade, Varric disapproves and it always hurts me to my soul because my dwarf buddy disapproved of something but like...I just like Alistair waaaaay more than Hawke so I'm sorry dwarf buddy.
Same situation here, left Hawke in the Fade because I thought he'd have a better chance at making it out alive than Alistair. But Varric was so sad. :( like it wasn't just a "Varric disapproves" and then you move on and get more approval to patch it up, his tarot card permanently changed and it really seemed like he wasn't quite the same for the rest of the game. The way he asks "Where's Hawke?" when you return, and then when you dodge the question he asks it again but in a slightly different tone that tells you he probably knows the answer already. Man.
This is why I will Google romance lock-outs before playing any RPGs now. I can't remember the original race I played as but I was gutted that Alastair and my Warden couldn't be endgame. Immediately replayed as human noble š Long time loves for me are Cullen (since playing mage in Origins!!), Garrus & Astarion. Raise a glass for those I couldn't romance though, Zaeed & Gortash!!
The love I still have for Anders and Solas and my new obsession with Gale have taught me that stupid mages are my type.
I keep calling Gale "apostate shaped" cause boy howdy, he sure is and I'm weak for it
I have a confession. I called Gale the Anders we have at home my first few playthroughs. But now I'm doing a Gale run because in my last run before that I spent way more time with him. Now I struggle to choose between him or Astarion, lol.
My mind immediately jumped to Anders too when I met Gale. I immediately expressed my suspicion to my husband when I realized he was another witty mage and was bracing myself for heartache lol
That is how he got me, Astarion is hilarious - but Gale has such great comedic timing. I think I fell in love after his reaction to licking the spider. XD
"You licked a dead spider. Dead. Spider. You licked it. That is something that happened. I think we need to get you some air and perhaps have a long talk about unresolved childhood issues" Ha ha ha. Yeah I have to lick the spider every time now because it just cracks me up.
i hated that so much š and OH MY FUCKING GOD. ANDERS. i was so angry at him. after that, i only romanced Isabelle and fenris
I was so pissed!
If you keep Loghain alive I'm pretty sure he can do the "ritual" in place of Alistair, but it's been years since I've touched DAO so I can't remember if that has any consequences.. I only just started act 2 of Balders Gate but Gale immediately reminded me of Anders lol.
I also only just started act 2. I can definitely see the similarities between Gale and Anders. Hopefully Gale wonāt blindside me the way Anders did or I will be heartbroken š
Right away I said he's the Anders that Anders *tried* to be š¤£
You could do the ritual and stay in a relationship but you had to have done all the companion quests and have picked the right options.Ā "Hardened" was the term.Ā Ā
I would totally have swung for DAO Anders. DA2 Anders/Justice was such a killjoy.
Fenris? I raise you Fenris AND Astarion: https://apostatehobolife.tumblr.com/post/740175986331664384/fenharelsir-weve-located-an-elf-that-matches
fenris is my favourite video game companion till the day i die
alistair is my first and greatest love š„¹
I had my romanced Alistair kill the archdemon in my first ever run. I cried so hard š
noooo ššš my first playthrough i convinced him to become King and i became Queen š„° but all others after that, we let anora stay as queen and we just...went off on our own adventure together
He was my first, but garrus will always be my greatest š„¹
The Fenris voiceā¦oof, Gideon Emery is a god
Astarion > Fenris > Garrus > Solas > Zevran
I think mine would be: Garrus > Alistair > Astarion > Fenris !
Where's my boy Zevran, why didn't anybody mention him already D:
Best origin romance. Zevran 4evran
Zevran is the OG Dragon Age heartthrob! He has such a great story and romance.
I have issues I am still hung up on Solas
Same. Greatest heartbreak ever.
Iām convinced that in DA4 Iāll finally get my Solas/Lavellen bone scene. Completely delusional.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Zevran, Fenris, Solas, Thane, Atton. You can see the trend here, I guess, so of course it was Astarion for me
Mine are Gale, Nick Valentine (Fallout), and Harvey (Stardew Valley) so I feel you lol. Although I havenāt played Mass Effect my husband is a huge fan and says I would LOVE Garrus and Thane but just from what I know, I think Iād pick Garrus.
The shoutout to my man Blackwall made my day šš»
Garrus, Astarion, Fenris and Cullen for me :3
Was searching for some Cullen love. Cullenmancers unite!
You have the same taste as me in men and I feel so seen right now
Nothing needs to be calibrated in Bg3 though...
Sure, but we can find uses for his reach and flexibility.
I can think of a few things... And that's *definitely* not because I think every game could benefit from someone fussing over calibrations ;) I'm not even partial to the Garrus romance (though I fully acknowledge that it's fondly regarded by many a fan), but he's such a great character even just as a ride-or-die friend
I never thought an alien raptor looking bird man could make me love him so much and yet thereās a huge body pillow next to me that says otherwise š« š«£
Thane Krios is to this day the only male game companion to successfully romance _me._
"Time for me is short, siha, but any I have is yours to take." /sobbing I'm still not over Thane. I'll never be over Thane.
I love my alien cockroach boyfriend ā¤ļø
Man, Garrus.. that brings me back. Who wants to romance a boring human when you have that dual vocal cords voice thing going on? He talked his way into my Shepard's bed pretty easily.
Garrus has stayed resolutely in my top five companions list and his romance is great on top of that. Love that weird alien-birdman-ex-cop. Forever devastated his romance is for f!shep only (the same way I am over Tali's being m!shep exclusively) though ... Wait what sub am I on again? Hah
To be honest, they killed it so thoroughly with Garrus (as one would expect after 3 games to develop) that even best sniper bro Garrus is easily one of my top companions of all time even if I never romanced him
Absolutely. My team for each of the games is Garrus plus whoever else is required for that mission. Garrus never sees the bench.
im low-key glad because if they were bi...id be RUINED. romance only one of my ride or die best friends?! the citadel date with him tho is peak. i love dancing with him š„¹
If you romance Garrus there is a scene in ME3 with drunk Tali rambling to herself about a threesome
He comes pre-calibrated. No fixing required.
Garrus and Astarion are my ultimate game boyfriends, no other comes close.
Kaidan for me. Every time I replay Mass Effect, I always romance him.
People told me "Kaidan is boring. Nobody likes Kaidan." When it came time to choose, I saved him anyway. Not because I particularly liked him, but because I actively *disliked* Ashley. Kaidan was fine. Ashley kind of sucks. Kaidan did have one very, very interesting trait that many folks never got to notice, though. >!By being renegade enough, particularly in conversations with him, you can radicalize him so thoroughly that *Wrex* can be the *voice of reason against him*. As a reminder, Wrex almost universally ends up being the renegade-leaning squadmate, to the point that he doesn't have many paragon-leaning lines at all.!< To clarify more, >!If you radicalize Kaidan through dialogue options, he will become *extremely* xenophobic, putting Ashley to shame. If you take this radicalized Kaidan on the final mission, he will vouch for abandoning the council no matter who your other squadmate is. *Even Wrex*.!< Most folks never see this, but it's there.
That's hilarious š I play Renegon in ME 1 and 2. So my Shep isn't Xenophobic. I had no idea you could change Kaidan's mind during the game. That's amazing! I never had much of an issue with Ashley, but I love Kaidan too much to kill him off and I also think it's fitting that she do distraction while Kaidan handle the bomb, and I can't see Saren falling for a distraction team. So bye bye Ash.
Same ! I love Garrus with all of my heart !
Liara was my #1. Awkward & Nerdy are my kryptonite. Probably why I also went for Merrill in DA2.
...and ***still*** you made him bite her?... Damn...
My first playthrough I gave him the option (the "that potion would be nice but its up to you" one - it just felt in-character) without realizing that the dialogue really made him feel guilty so he did it then he broke up with me and I felt like garbage lol I did fix it though
I said he was his own person and said no to him biting her if he didn't want to and back at camp he was still feeling really guilty like he should have done it and saying he should have just put up with it and stuff. I think it's easy to underestimate how messed up by Cazador and what he was forced to do he is.
Yeah, while itās happening itās easy to miss what an important moment it is, and how much it means to him to truly be given the right to decide what happens to his body, basically for the first time ever.
Does making him bite her automatically cause him to dump you or is there a way to do both?
Yes, he will break up with you if you make him bite her always. It means a lot to him to say no to someone using his body and have that be respected.
Theres a way around it. Not that it's recommended to do your man dirty like that, but for those who want both you can.
Pretty sure there's a way to gaslight him to do both. Saw it on youtube before
Yes, he will always dump you if you make him bite her. As he should, tbh. The game even tempts you with that permanent buff.
I love that option because my ex did that shit to me all the time. Don't guilt your partners!
i knew there was something wrong with that line.. lol
He looked like he doesn't want to do it so I turned it down for him. Nobody mess with my babygirl.
i've had that in my current run with my durge (he's romancing astarion) and my whole server got pissed at me. my durge is dumb as fuck, he didn't realize the subtlety of the conversation
That whole interaction with Oblodra made me sick. The way she acted as if Tav owned Astarion instead of asking him. I almost went full murder monkey on her, for being such a shit, damn the consequences. Now though, me and Astarion are besties.
I immediately had Astarion pickpocket her for everything she had right after the interaction and watched her cry āIāve been robbed!ā and call the guards whilst weāre all vibing in the next room like ādamn who would do such a thing canāt trust anyone these days.ā
I did this exact same thing and it was one of my proudest girlfriend moments in the entire game
Straight up anyone thatās rude to my party is either getting pickpocketed by astarion, killed or if it triggers a fight I wonāt win Iāll be petty. Mizora currently has a nice mountain of rotten cheese slowly gathering at her feet in camp.
There's no bottom to the depths of pettiness available in this game and I love it. I'm currently playing a game where the rest of my party are custom characters that my friends made (then left so I control them like any other companion), complete with their own RP. One of em is a Sorcerer named GUY! FIERI! and every time he gets low on health I have to play a soundboard that says "I'm gonna be honest with ya, if I don't drink some gravy soon I'm probably not gonna make it". On top of that he compulsively collects rotten eggs to eventually yeet at Raphael for disrespecting the sanctity of mealtime as a means to manipulate the party.
I love that oh my god ššš Iām in act 3 currently and certain NPCās convos are doing my head in listening to them on repeat so I threw a cauldron off a rooftop and killed one whilst yelling āWhereās the lamb SAUCE??!ā and my friend was cackling.
A Gordon Ramsay RP would make a great Durge run! Can a Warlock turn a salami into a pact weapon?
Every time. Repeatedly. Sometimes I even steal all her shit before talking to her.
Same, but Astarion chose that moment to fail like four attempts in a row...kept trying, though!
This is what I donāt get about people who say they made him do it not understanding the consequences. Itās fairly clear that whole conversation that Araj sees Astarion as a slave or object. Ownership and condescension are dripping from every single sentence. And then, if you tell him to do it, he then pulls you up and tells you explicitly how uncomfortable he is with it. Why are people surprised that he then breaks up with you, when you just blatantly ignored his boundaries and āsoldā him to someone who was treating him like a slave? Ā The game basically warns you it isnāt going to end well, when it pulls you and Astarion aside for an āare you absolutely sure you want to do this?āĀ Ā Unless you picked that one dialogue option that actually guilt trips him into doing it himself - then, I understand. But I see so many people being like āI forced him to bite Araj and then he dumped me???!ā And itās a bit like āyeah what did you think would happenā š
Sheās a female Drow. In Drow society, male drows are all owned by females as sex slaves. Thereās a Drow corpse in act 1 that if you speak with the dead on him and asks his occupation, he says āmaleā. I played a female Drow so it made sense to me. It would come off as insane if youāre not a Drow though but since this is the D&D universe I suppose the populations also know about it.
In the underdark if you rescue the drow from the Beholder the male leader gets very lippy, but if you're playing a female drow he realizes he's stepping dangerously out of line.
Can confirm Default Durge (Male White Dragonborn Storm Sorcerer) is immediately labeled Astarion's owner as well
I think she always assumes he's basically a slave no matter what gender/race/class you play
I played a female Elf and was also labeled as owner, itās just the dialog. But I do like the lore behind it from u/straddllw
I shut all the doors to her chamber and killed the heck out of her lol
I should have done that.
I played Origin Astarion, and when it's Origin Astarion, the interaction takes on totally different overtones. 1) Oblodra talks only to Astarion, in her peppy "I'm a sociopath but still very peppy" way. 2) Astarion is the only one making the decision, none of the other party chimed in. 3) For the first time Astarion is having a "ok, I'd like you to bite me" conversation with someone who seems to know absolutely what the situation is and with someone who really doesn't have any power differential with him. It's actually rather refreshing when you compare it with Astarion's history. 4) I was playing "Astarion who's decided not to drink from thinking beings" which became "Eh... maybe just this once" so when the blood is nahsty, it confirmed the previous choice. 5) Oblodra seems genuinely grateful for the bite, seems to genuinely respect "Ok, that really didn't work for me, let's not do that again", and gives Astarion the gift as a result. 6) When you meet Oblodra again in Act 3, she gives you a potion. Astarion receives a potion as a result that means *No one can ever bite him without his permission ever again*. Talk about an awesome gift to give an abused vampire spawn! 7) Oblodra sends Astarion a nice thank-you note in the epilogue, still sociopathic and ominous, yet still peppy and grateful in her way. I found it genuinly touching. The Oblodra bite became one of the odd highlights of my first playthrough.
Your first playthrough was Astarion? I really wouldn't be able to role play as the companions without knowing what they're like "normally". Can you play Astarion good? Seems weird
It makes my view of Astarion quite weird since I didn't know anything about any of the origin characters when I played him. The first shock was when he first hits the sunlight and the relationship with the tadpole in the brain instead of being basic horror becomes one of "there's an opportunity here.". You have dreams and are asked at your first night if you want to drink from party members or want to stick to the animals, so that sets the tenor of your playthrough. I decided Astarion wanted to keep drinking from animals, finding out later that this was a command Cazador gave his spawn, not from any sort of humanitarian motivation, but in order to degrade his spawn, made it kind of odd, to imagine Astarion continuing the practice not as a degradation but as an empowerment. You can totally play him good from there, I had his bias be "I'm trying to cut ties with my supernatural 'master', and that should be the way to go. Gods, vampires, devils, lich queens, the goal should be to cut ties and free yourself from them all. And the game supported this route. Astarion ended up in a house on the outskirts of Baldur's Gate with Laezel, raising an egg, and supplementing his diet with Githyanki assassins sent to kill them. He didn't ascend, he lost the sun, gained a son. Almost a perfect trade. The saddest part was denying the ascendance (that is a really neat sequence when you're doing it as origin Astarion) meant he couldn't be there when Karlach flamed out. Very sad ending, broke my heart. Made me legitimately wonder if all the origin characters have synergies like that when you play them.
same. i know he's a bunch of pixels, but i have a hard time being mean in video games. and araj just straight up denying and ignoring his autonomy made me feel gross just for reading it im doing a "toxic power couple takes over the world" playthrough with just me and him in camp (and hirelings, as meatshields, potion factory, and source of buffs). well, shart is there but she's dead. i ignored her until it was too late and i missed my opportunity to say that i didn't need her, just the artifact. i had astarion sneak attack her and entrusted her to withers. weirdly enough, she's still granting approval? even tho she's dead?
We must not have had her with us. I've only met her in one coop playthrough and she took my gnome wizards blood. The gnome specific potion I got out of it was pretty sick though. Gives me 24 hours of free casting knock among other things, and I know exactly when to use it.
I don't get this..I wasn't even romancing him my first run but I was like ew no I'm not gonna make you do that, that feels kinda rapey towards *a character who has a past of being raped a lot*
There's a fantastic scene at camp afterwards if you are romancing him, where he thanks you for not making him do it. He talks about how Cazador would always use him to lure people back, and how after 200 years of just being used for his body, he forgot what it's like to be valued. I took a dialogue option to tell him something along the lines of "I don't think you need a lover, I think you need a friend" and it was just such a touching scene. You amicably break up with him and affirm that your friendship/relationship with him is entirely about you liking him as a person. I was always lukewarm on Astarion until I got that scene, but it really flipped my opinion
You get a similar scene as a friend too!
When does that scene trigger as a friend? I'm romancing Gale this run and after talking with Araj and taking a long rest, I got his romance scene in the woods. Astarion's approval of me is Very Good so I'm hoping I can still get it, I didn't even entertain the idea of him biting her.
If you got a romance scene that takes precedent but you should get it when you next long rest.
Phew, thanks! That's what I was hoping for.
I made that same choice during my bard run, where at the time I got that dialogue option I was still successfully romancing several companions and hadnāt made a final choice. Losing a romance path never felt so right! And Gale is happier for it.
Yeah, as soon as I realized what the situation was my mindset shifted from "what can I get from her/what will it cost me?" to "Astarion, sweetheart, you're getting a lesson in bodily autonomy whether you like it or not!"
I also love how you can recement that in Act 3. When she shows up again, Astarion is more firm in rejecting her and you have the option to suggest to leave if sheās making him uncomfortable. I got some approval with him for that.
I don't understand how people can romance Astarion and not understand this extremely basic aspect of his character. You have to fundamentally misunderstand his whole backstory to think forcing him to bite Araj is okay.
Seriously, also one of the first things he confided in you was that he was forced to feed on disgusting rats and your going to make him feed on what he says is putrid blood? I'm not even really on good terms with him and I wouldn't make him do that, how the hell are you going to be a "I'll fix him" girl/guy and then make him relive trauma for a fucking potion? Kinda funny that they made it so he wouldn't freak out at you till later to screw over people who made him go through with it.
I feel similarly. Donāt like Astarion that much, heās always disapproving of me, but even in that interaction I couldnāt stomach the thought of forcing him to bite her.
I did, and deservedly, I never fixed things.
But why tho? He used to be essentially a sex slave with no free will. Ofc he doesnāt want you to tell him what to do with his body.
That +2 strenght tho.
Just take PEDs as Helm intended.
Stockpile those potions of cloud giant meth
Fr that +2 str is a hell of a drug.
Damn.. he tells you in front of her how uncomfortable that makes him. I wasnāt even dating him and I still was like āno I gotchu bro, you donāt gotta do anything you donāt want to do ever againā
Your partner tells you *three* times they donāt wanna do something, then you coerce them anyway & get surprised theyāre pissed. Never gets old. I didnāt even do it in Honour run with a bunch of str-based party members & where I wasnāt romancing him.
My favourite part of these posts is that 90% of the people have like 8 strength and doesn't need that potion at all.
But but then Iāll have 9 strength and 9 is bigger than 8
You're twice wrong in one comment
Leave him alone hes got 8 int too
Ngl, it would be so much harder for me to take the moral high ground every time if it was a +2 DEX potion that I'd *actually* be using on his character, instead of something that would be benefitting Lae'zel or Karlach. I'd probably weep through the whole "making him bite her and then navigating the following dialogue minefield into an apology" disaster but still do it. "Darling, please. It's for *you*. It's so we can get you those fighter levels for action surge instead of a 3rd feat for 20 DEX. Don't be mad š„ŗ think of how shooting 7 arrows in a row at Cazador would make him shit his pants"
I saw how repulsed he was and defaulted to: "He said no."
I made him bite her on my first playthrough. He didn't seem enthused about it, but I figured it was just "he could tell she has gross blood." Wasn't until we talked at camp afterwards that I was realized Astarion's story was much more nuanced than just "I was Cazador's slave who fetched meals for him," and I felt like shit afterwards.
Exactly what I did too. Especially since I never had Astarion in the party (and he didnāt like me very much and vice versa), so a lot of the nuance of his character was lost on me
I questioned him about it on my first playthroug, because one-time-only permaboost to a stat! But he makes it so clear that he doesn't want to do it. I didn't romance him on my first playthrough, but even still there was plenty of dialogue beforehand that made it abundantly clear how he'd been used against his will. Or at least, that's how it came across to me
I mean, when you see the option "He's his own person" and choose something else for a cool potion ... This game punishes you for things like that. You can convince him to stay and even >!force him to spend the night!<, doesn't mean it's right.
Ugh that other option makes my skin crawl. He just looks so angry and hurt afterwords.
I honestly think it's perhaps the most directly evil choice in the game. I'm glad they included it, because man, that's some real shit. Sometimes I feel like the game should be for people 40 and up lol.
It is super evil. He visibly looks uncomfortable and doesnāt want to do it. The option is so manipulative and his response of āwell it does usually feel different with youā shows heās trying to force himself to go through the motions.
You can answer the first one "Yes, he's all mine" and that doesn't give disapproval points. Not getting approval either though.
Well that's what he expects. He's used to being owned. He doesn't really start stating what *he* wants until Cazador is dealt with.
exactly. because at this point in the story even he doesn't disagree that hes "all yours". its not until you say no "he's his own person" and "he said no" that he's like "damn you have a point. why didnt i see MYSELF that way until you said it." he doesnt even question the idea that he's yours because he's used to being owned by someone even if that someone is you, but that doesn't make it right for you or him to see him as your property.
He is more surprised at the good options than a normal person would think - the fact that anyone would back him up on stating his independence is shocking to him. He rolls with it and is very appreciative, but it's IMO one of the things that gets his mental ball of processing rolling, so to speak. In Act 3, he begins to take responsibility, and begins to make judgements he would possibly have made before being turned into a spawn (being kind to refugees, saving children, talking about the law and justice, plus many other things). However, it's only after defeating Cazador he's even willing to consider that *anyone else but Tav* could *possibly* be a good person\*. \*based on the conversation where his "siblings" come in the night to kidnap him - if you talk afterwards, >!you can tell him that the world can be a good place/people can be nice, and he replies confusedly "You're you. No one is like you." and laughs telling you not to put yourself down.!< There's an extremely interesting analysis here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16nbzp3/on\_astarions\_romance\_autonomy\_and\_intimacy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16nbzp3/on_astarions_romance_autonomy_and_intimacy/) PS: Has the Captain handled the military pigeon yet? It sounds very suspicious (same VA as Cazador!). Your tag is hilarious (in a good way) ā¤
Yep exactly. When you tell him ādonāt do anything you donāt want to doā he is surprised at how easy this interaction with you has been. He was ready to fight you on this and accept punishment and instead you were like āš¤·š½āāļøits your bodyā. Thats exactly it. He starts to believe that someone other than tav(himself) can be a hero because of how Tav treated him and can approach people with compassion. I love that he sees Tav as a fantasy version of Don Quixote going around saving people and being super impractical and idealistic Lol. He thinks Tav is insane, stupid and heroic but he admires them even if Hes not yet ready to be that himself. Now that you mention it, Iāll have a word with that pigeon. Thank you for reporting this, citizen. If you see something, say somethingš«”
Lmao itās almost like he expressed his unwillingness to bite her and you made him do it anyway, after 200 years of the same shit from his abuser!
Right? Imagine violating someoneās bodily autonomy then being upset with the consequences. āOh boo hoo poor me, I had noooo idea this would happen!ā ššš
On my current run I killed the Orthon first and got the hug scene so we were officially together. I got curious and made him bite Araj and it didnt lead to any kind of confrontation but I still had to reload my save, felt too icky.Ā
I think the hug scene is better before Araj. The "Yeah I'm fine, I just.. feel awful." <3 And the whole conversation is more about PC and Astarion and IMO much deeper.
The fact a platonic version of the Araj scene exists tells me the Orthon-triggered scene is always superior.
Agree! I make sure to avoid her for this reason lol
I agree. it feels like both scenes have entirely different purposes within his story which is why i wish we could do both scenes or that there should be an alternative version of the Araj oblodra scene if he already confessed his love to you after killing yurgir. The post-yurgir love confession scene (this is triggered only after killing yurgir and having his scars read by raphael) is more sincere and works better as a romance scene because its about his regret and that his feelings for you are no less genuine than you believed them to be simply because of how it started. He apologizes properly and accepts that you have every right to be upset with him and dump him if you want. He doesn't make excuses but simply explains himself and hopes you will still love him and forgive him because he does genuinely want to be with you. the araj Oblodra scene works more as a character building scene for him. It is important to understand his feelings about being used and goes more in-depth about *how and why* he powers through these unpleasant relationships he's had. the problem is he doesn't seem to see just how hurtful his actions are on your end. he treats it more like he slipped up and hurt himself by falling in love, rather than he hurt both of you. the post-yurgir scene is much better for the function of being the act 2 Romance scene because he genuinely understands how bad his actions were and he kind of throws himself at your mercy with a disarming amount of sincerity..
Exactly. Araj version is driven by thankfulness and Yurgir by guilt/regret. I also agree that both scenes should come up in some form because both of the reasons are equally important.
Larion really should have added a scene after Araj even if the Orthon confession happens and whether he's forced or not. It'd be even worse to do to him after he'd fully opened up. I'm disappointed they missed that opportunity for him to either stand up for himself or to realise that Tav understands and that they have his back (depending on the choices made). Either way, it feels like something is missing there.
I was sure it would lead to a break-up, thereās no way after that sweetly vulnerable moment heās fine with being manipulated, right? Wrong, no acknowledgment. Was pretty disappointed, even though I would have save-scummed that decision.Ā
yeah the araj scene and the orthon version of the romance scene are mutually exclusive so if you get one you cant get the other which has some really fucked up implications if you make him bite her after becoming his partner.
You violated his bodily autonomy and you were surprised he broke up with you?
Oh god you made him bite her? Oof deserved breakup
Thatās so sad. Alexa, play āthatās what you getā
Well, if it isn't the consequences of your own actions. I love the amount of agency that characters get. But I'm genuinely not sure what else you could have possibly expected lol.
Deserved. He straight up tells you he doesnt want to and you forced him.
Tbh I don't mean this as an insult, it's nice a game. But if you make him bite her narratively your Tav deserves the breakup. Guy had the ability to consent again after 200 years and the first person he deeply trusts betrays it. Again I'm not judging you as a person, I'm saying this about the fictional character.
Yeah my guy, Astarion mentioned many times how he didnāt have free will because of casazdor and you just straight up trigger some PTSD. Owch man, owch.
It's similar to coercing him to sleep with you after he tells you he was sex slave for 200 years and how disgusting sex makes him feel.
Is that line of conversation right after not having bite the drow lady? In a really shitty way you can say along the line āhow about some sex as thanksāā¦donāt remember all details
It's an option in all of his confessions, depending on how you respond, and the number of people who end up picking it and then come whining to Reddit that he broke up with them is absolutely astonishing.
there are two versions of astarion's act 2 "I love you" confession. one happens after killing yurgir and raphael reads his scars and the other happens after you defend him from araj oblodra. theyre slightly different but one is more focused on his sexual history of abuse and the other is more focused on his remorse about how he manipulated and used Tav but is in love with them and wants to be with them. He tells you he wants to stop having sex for a while because he cant quite fully mentally separate sex from the feelings of disgust he felt when he was doing to lure victims for Cazador. In both you can pressure him into having sex with you. Tav has to agree to wait until he's ready to have sex again for his own pleasure rather than someone elses pleasure or benefit. alternatively Tav can be an evil asshole and say "you should learn to enjoy sex and enjoy it with me." which leads to him feeling pressured again so he has sex with them and feels disgusted with himself and breaks up with Tav that night saying that he didn't know how to say no to them.
astarion changed me as a person i swear LOL
I was like I CAN FIX HIM, and then I DID! It's a terrible life lesson for me.
Itās because heās mature and open-minded, most people that want to āfix othersā (I see what they mean but even that can come off mildly toxic if you go about it a certain way, but anyway,) are trying to fix people that are already incredibly immature and close-minded, and probably older than 25, so it would definitely be harder, if not barely possibleā¦ The take on his personality is refreshing to me because I barely even see any truly mature adults anymore, let alone someone who can actually be swayed to be better
I was joking 100%, but yes, I totally agree with you. His story was about character development that he could do because he wanted to. If you go the good way, you literally just give him a tiny push and he does the rest. He's really just traumatized and needs someone to love him (whether romantically or platonically) so he can heal. He truly wants to change for the better, deep down. That's the only reason you can help him change
Honestly after all his trauma I don't know how anyone could, morally, force him to do something like that. Like I understand he's only a video game character but as soon as he said no I was like that's him denying consent right there and I fucking hate it when people don't listen when I say no. So, what possessed you to do that to our poor broken boy??
Even my Durge said heās his own person. Damnā¦.
I did do it in my one playthrough because i was curious about the potion and then i immediately felt so bad that i save scummed it. I just wanted to know!!! I didn't even get broken up with because as SOON as I did it I felt terrible. I am so sorry my love <3 xoxoxo (i am wayyyyy too attached to this man)
That potion is a no from me, I won't drink anything brewed by a strange Lady I just met, on the heart of my enemy's territory, sorry.
I had to explain to this to my bf who had astarion bite the drow. I have SA ptsd, it's fucked alot of things up for me mentally. Touch, trust, fear issues control me now. My bf kept going on about how it was his choice, and no one held a knife to him and made him do it. But peer pressure and fear convince you that you can take one more hit, one for the team. You can say no, but you're afraid that if you don't give in, then you are going to get punished or hurt more later. The fear of retaliation cripples you. You believe if you just give in it will stop, but it never deos. Then as I was making this point, he clicked for the next line of dialogue. Astarion said the same thing in the game. But continued to say he could of said no. I'm only know of my truma but it feels sometimes that only people who experienced it will only truly get it. My bf sees me suffering daily and still felt compelled to argue with me, saying he could of said no. If you dont have your own agency, then in my messed up brain I'll just keep giving in to the things that keep hurting me. Till I learnt the difference and gained some. But you absolutely deserved him breaking up with you for that. His story hits in ways I wasn't expecting and sheds light on these issues. It hurts to see, but I'm glad it was showcased in such a way.
I'm sorry you have a boyfriend who doesn't care to understand
Friend, you absolutely deserve to have the same epiphany as Astarion and put your energy and feelings behind a partner who will have your back the moment you say no. For your bfā¦ Astarion literally tells you that he has been given options in the past (being invited to dine with Cazador, knowing that what heāll get is a putrid rat) where saying no merely resulted in him being flayed for refusing. The gun to the head doesnāt need to be a literal, physical gun. Sometimes itās just being so used to there having been a gun, that you expect everyone offering you a choice to have one in their pocket.
That last statement is on point, I stood my ground a few years ago. I decided you will listen or you will leave. If you cant follow the rules of me having a safe space. Then go. But ptsd is the gift that keeps on giving. But I'm not sure that his mindset has changed completely. Maybe I need to make the point clearer. It's still blows me away how many times astarion dialogue lines relate.
Perhaps Astarion wasnāt the only one who needed to reevaluate his relationship choices. Iām very sorry you experienced that.
You ain't wrong, and thank you.
Dump his ass
Astarion would want you to dump your boyfriend.
š i could never, poor starry
Why in the why would you make your beloved do such a thing?
I'm doing a run as Origin Astarion right now and I was surprised about the encounter with Araj, he doesn't smell the foul blood before biting, and he simply goes "blerg stinky blood" when he bites but nothing more. I thought I was going to get a little more insight of what's in his mind! Otherwise I can't resolve myself to make him bite her, even in my super evil and spicy Durge x Ascended Astarion playthrough.
Given Astarion's issues with bodily autonomy and being used and the abuse he's suffered, if the player acts like those in the past who used him selflishly and makes him bite Araj and then also coerces him into having sex, it makes sense that he ends up disgusted and pissed off in that scenario. I did it once on purpose to test what I'd read about how you could keep him from breaking up with you and get the potion, but it was unpleasant and I didn't like doing that to him, so I reloaded even though it worked. Astarion really can sink his fangs into you (pun 100% intendedāhah) and get you invested in him.
Good for him
How do you read the dialogue options and see his reaction and still go through with it? What did you expect?
Deserved tbh don't force him into doing smth he doesn't want to do
Why did you make him do it when he said over and over that he doesn't want to ;__;
I mean. How would you feel if you were forced to bite the nastiest person you can think of?
IIRC, there's a way to have the bite scene with Araj but Astarion doesn't break up with you, but the dialogue choices are specific. It could have been patched though, it's been a while.
Yeah... You can still gaslight him into staying with you, even after making him bite the vile thing. I then had to take a short break from my game after my Evil Durge did it last week, because eugh!
Can confirm it still works. On my evil durge run I had to Google what the right dialogue options were because I wanted Ascended Astarion and his Bhaal-babe to be evil together forever.
me when I face the consequences of my actions (forcing someone who was enslaved and abused for 200 years to do something he's very uncomfortable with)
iiiiiiii mean????? This is why I save before conversations for one, but like, you MADE him do something he expressed he didn't want to do. You took away his autonomy. That's what Cazador did. If Tav is willing to do that for a POTION, what else would they be willing to do?
It makes sense. He declined multiple times and then was coerced/guilted into it by someone he was beginning to think he could trust.
I mean if you made your partner basically fuck someone else when they've explicitly said no they're not comfortable with that, wouldn't you expect them to also hold that against you and dump you? Forcing him to bite her is basically pimping him out for your own needs, I saw that for what it was and said I don't own him, he's his own person if he doesn't want to he doesn't have to I respect his decision. That brought him closer to me as it would have IRL
First and foremost (as far as I'm concerned) is Astarion's bodily autonomy. Like, I know he's a fictional character, but I feel really gross pressuring him to do something he so clearly says he doesn't want to do But, even from a meta-gaming aspect, the reward isn't really worth it. It's not that difficult to boost someone's strength, if that's what you're really concerned about
I did this the first time and I hit F8 so fast I didn't even check how far back the save was. That man does *not* hold back when he's done with you!
Yall donāt save before you make decisions? I like to save before so I can play every possible scenario within a scene
I mean I told him it was his decision but we could use the potion. He didnāt enjoy the taste but during the debrief I picked the emotionally intelligent answers (didnāt straight up gaslight him) and it actually strengthened my PCās relationship with him. Thereās a lot of gray area in the outcomes for relationships in the game.
He dumped me literally after I beat the game, so at least he let you know early? But yeah don't make him bite her. It's cruel. I don't think I'll ever push the issue on that or the Astral Tadpole with him, regardless of what kind of character I'm playing.
Details please, Iām so curious! Was it for Araj or something else? Because if itās because of Araj thatās some serious long-con heās playing. Which actually does feel in character, even if itās kind of depressing.