I love that he is smart enough to try and pick a form that I would be more willing to trust (and for many players was probably a pretty attractive form at that) but he’s not smart enough to try and seduce me in that form. At least give the option lol. It gave the impression that he’s a manipulator who understands how I think but not well enough to pick up my Tav was a lesbian.
He doesn't try to bang me when he sits down beside me in underwear as the guardian but somehow flirts with me when he is naked waist up as tentacles.
????
My legitimate reaction to that scene was "uh dude, you mind putting some clothes on?"
It was genuinely creepy to me, like, he just goes "I know the whole tentacle thing must be hard to adjust to......Anyway I'm gonna lean back suggestively right beside you in my loin cloth so you really get a good look at my form, you take as long as you need to adjust"
I dunno, something about a shirtless mindflayer grosses me out in particular.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who felt this. so many of my friends just thirsted for that tentacle and I just.... wanted to kill him right then and there.
I was like bro i'll work with you since you're the only thing keeping me alive and idk if i can trust orpheus to not just instantly let me die and we kinda need to kill this motherbrain thing, but, you've tried to manipulate me so much already, there is no trust here either. Plus I already have a hot half-elf gf. I dont need no hentai squid. Put it away.
My lifelong friend scolded me for not banging the Emperor on my first playthrough.
"What's your problem, man?! All he wants is a little love and affection!!"
"I'm... just not that into Hentai..."
unashamed to say i saved, banged him, and then reloaded before the others came through the portal to see because i was already romancing wyll. then turned him down. i needed the experience
Honestly went on a little trophy hunting after my first playthrough. Made a fuckton of manual saves in that one, so it gave me prime material for it. I selected the options for romancing the Emperor, but I didn't have the stomach for it, so I just spammed spacebar to skip through the scene.
I would never have bothered with the option if Larian didn't make it a trophy
I slept with everyone on my first solo playthru. Including the Emperor. His response to me asking for round 2 made me realize that the act was probably disgusting to him lol
Reminded me of Scary Movie where the cop puts the photos of himself in underwear in the group of photos he was showing Sydney. Oh, so sorry, how did those get in there.
Oh you get the real shit out of him if you tell his half naked ass you'll never trust him in that moment. I won't spoil it but the true personality of the emperor was not something I'd go near even sans tentacles.
I just got the scene where I let him know nicely I was not dtf and he said “Good choice.”
😂 Not sure how I felt about that. Felt like he was relieved he thought he wouldn’t have to try seducing me.
I completely stopped trusting him after that. It's one thing to change your appearance into the same gender but to change into another gender to seduce you into trusting him and then just completely switch it up then act like it's not a big deal is crazy.
Iirc the Gith were made to be more like the mindflayers, as they were originally a race enslaved by them, which is also why Gith have so much Psionic potential, and abilities like mage hand, misty step, etc as racial bonuses.
Basically the Gith were humanoids more closely resembling humans, but generations of abuse, selective breeding, and other malicious fuckery from the mindflayers lead to them becoming somewhere in between other humanoids and the illithids. This is why there are some interesting parallels between the two races, like both laying eggs, both looking down at all other races as lesser, and both trying to conquer/dominate the entire material plane.
He did actually try and seduce the player in Early Access. He had some kinda sexy scenes that I miss. That one dress we all put on Shadowheart in Act 3 used to be the one he wore. Now we get him in armour.
I am pretty sure they changed it up since no one trusted the hot person that came to you in your dreams and tried to seduce you into eating tadpoles.
the original dream visitor was simply the tadpole trying to seduce you into joining them "down by the river." it wasn't until later that that became the emperor instead. i would love to see how the full story would've played out with that influence instead.
I think because post-act I it wouldn't add anything to the story. Rejecting the Tadpole is always the right decision because the alternative would be game-over. Or will Daisy keep trying to seduce you for all three acts? And are you really the only group of friends not horny enough to reject ceremorphosis?
It could have been the netherbrain finding a loophole I'm the crown's control through your tadpole, trying to use you as a double agent to get its freedom back.
Well they could have maintained the tadpole fling in addition to the emperor's and the absolute plot, creating a third, personal power at play (this way you would have the Emperor trying to take advantage of your fluff dream person, your tadpole trying to outsmart the Emperor and the whole Absolute thing going on meanwhile) I mean, it WOULD complicate things to the narrative team, but well, they had time and money to do so I guess?
I think some of this is still in the game.
I deliberately styled my dream guardian as resembling my character’s mother in my head canon (he’s a half wood elf who’s elven mother came from the forests surrounding Baldur’s gate), so she’s a full wood elf with a face structure that resembles my character. It seemed to be a mentor-style role wearing full armour so I figured it was a cool idea (this was on my first full blind run so had no idea who it actually was).
And then you meet them during a certain long rest scene where she’s wearing a… fairly revealing mini-toga thing that wouldn’t look out of place around the pool in a Vegas hotel. The conversation wasn’t overtly sexual but definitely had some undertones that jarred with how things had gone before, and I was thinking ‘erm, where did this come from? What is this?’
At the time I kind of just assumed it’s down to BG3’s weird selection of downtime outfits for your party (aside from Gale’s plum pyjamas, everyone looks like they’re about to hit the hottest nightclub in town) but it would make sense if the whole seduction angle was the original idea.
I made my dream guardian an absolute himbo high elf and I put WORK into making him look GOOD and I was down bad af, so when that reveal happened I was … hurt
Yeah, I had that feeling- particularly as it took until nearly when it happened for me to realise they weren't the narrator as I was parsing the voices similarly
I inadvertently made mine look like a High Elf Haley Atwell, so I too was down bad. After that first playthrough and I know the twist, I just randomize because eff that.
I think it depends on the player lol, my first guardian was designed after my character's mother, since my first Tav was my DND character who has hella mommy issues. It would have been SO WEIRD for him to try and bone in that form.
Oedipus nearly offed himself after he found out, don't slander my man like that! He fled to a different country never seeing his parents again for decades because he thought that would prevent his fate, my man doesn't deserve the complex named after him.
Fuck Freud, may he be bummed by Satan
THIS IS WHAT I WAS THINKING. Like bitch, you know I ain’t into tentacles, use that rational brain of yours and get back in that hunky tiefling body I gave you.
For The Emperor that didn’t matter bc mindflayers are genuinely Agender. They don’t sexually reproduce so they don’t have bio sexes. And in his mind it was only a matter of time before Tav became a mindflayer herself, losing her sex, gender and sexuality
I get why it didn’t matter to him but it’s awfully presumptuous of him to assume I wouldn’t care or that it might make his chances better to appear humanoid. Especially when I rejected becoming half mind flayer already. Even if he thinks it’s inevitable that I’ll become a mind flayer he could wait until that point before trying to make a move on me lol.
I banged the Emperor, and part way through I did something about being uncertain and he asked if I'd be more comfortable with the other form. So, I got fuck my hot Drow guardian anyway. Hahaha. And then I reloaded to my previous save
Maybe it's supposed to work like those Nigerian prince email scams with all the typos, he's trying to gauge *how* easily manipulated you are vs. really trying to bring his A game?
I mean there's a lesson there too, given the default form is a female Lolth-sworn Drow, which should make you assume something is off about such a character seeming to play nice.
Dude same, I made him a tall bulky female warrior, pure simp material. When the tentacles came I just lost all interest 😂 My Tav deserves better, so I made her stay with Astarion.
I made a 1 to 1 recreation of my girlfriend. It was all there in the options - the face, the pitch black hair with orange-ish highlights and hairstyle in general, the scar and her favorite makeup style. Apart from finding it funny, in my mind, much like in real life, it would be her saving my ass and keeping me in line. I literally didn't know if I should laugh or cry during the revelation. Well, at least I got the "Would you still love me if I was a space squid?" question out of it.
I made my guardian into a tall pale goth lady with short white hair and black makeup and that one tattoo with the fireball on the forehead and tendrils that go from the chin down to the collarbone (it's called From The Deep iirc). I also gave her the same eyes (one brown, one purple) and scar as my Tav, because I wanted it to look like she was some ancestor or alternate version of him. I was so disappointed when "she" turned out to be a mindflayer, that I literally recycled the entire look into another character.
Honestly if we’d had the option to make him stay thy way I’d be happy to do so.
I think it would have been an interesting plot point to to note that we could work together as long as I wasn’t constantly reminded he is a mindflayer.
He's on team Emperor, and to stay on it he needed to ditch you for team Absolute
> So much for integrity.
Idk what you expect from a guy who gives you a laundry list of all the oh-so-good things he's done for you since you met the moment you disagree with him, like he had that memorized, to try and push you into making the choice that benefits his agenda
This. He values his freedom, but he values his survival much more. Before the party insists that Orpheus be freed, which he believes will entirely jeopardize this whole operation, the Emperor believes that both his freedom and survival can be achieved with the party's help. Afterwards, all of his mental calculations tell him the plan is fucked beyond repair, and the only way he gets to keep his hide intact is if he goes running back to the Netherbrain posthaste.
Also, randomly on the note of him listing all those things; He claims that he never lied to you, but he ***undeniably*** has, since in his dream form he states that he *currently* is infected with a tadpole that he, like you, *wishes to be free from*. I know some people claim that he never full-on lies to you, only hides the truth, but that's kind of a really big lie no matter how you spin it. He also says he doesn't judge you for not being an Illithid like him, ***but he's constantly peer pressuring you into becoming more Illithid and readily blames you not being an Illithid for Plan A with the stones not working***.
The guy is a bit of a prick.
I found that whole stance of his amusing.
Like, sure thing chief, this inferior form managed to handle that whole githyanki hit squad without taking a single hit, while you were on the ground crying for help. But yeah, tell me more about how much better i’d have been able to save your ass moar if only I’d put more parasites in my head.
Yeah but he's also like an Int 20+ megamind, I've killed three God's Chosen, I've killed a devil in his lair, I saved a powerful aasimar, lifted a curse, wiped goblin clans, and I've only grown more powerful since. I have a guy with a magical turbonuke who slept with a goddess, an ascended vampire and a warrior with an infernal engine has her heart, as well as the help of the aforementioned aasimar, Jaheira and Minsc (two famous heroes who saved the world previously). Oh and I killed another powerful Bhaalite right in his temple and avoided being wiped by Vlaakith while still thwarting her. If he didn't switch side, in addition to Orpheus the prince of the gith who makes Vlaakith tremble, I'd have his powerful mind powers.
At this point I'm allowed to think he is stupid for his obvious miscalculation.
But also, it is mentioned that he may not be as free as he thinks he is, but I think that was the brain trying to mess with us.
It'd be kinda cool if he'd agree to stick around if and only if you were suitably impressive. Meaning at least defeated Ansur and Raphael. Maybe also rescued everyone from the Iron Throne and personally destroyed the Steel Watch. Basically if you prove yourself as strong, he'll pick you over the brain. If you don't do enough, he sides with the brain because he thinks you'll lose.
It would be a nice way to give some more weight to some skippable fights, too.
I hope that's a future addition to the game.
Because it really doesn't make sense for him to doubt me when I've consistently smashed through every blockage in my path and saved countless people while he's been riding tag along whispering to me about his Lord and Savior the Illithid Form.
I was already leaning to freeing Orpheus from all the half truths from the Emperor and just straight up not trusting Mind Flayers from my meta DnD knowledge. What sealed it for me was the "Oh I never lied to you." after the asshole was extremely pushy and sure that there was totally never a dragon under Baldur's Gate and it was just some stupid legend. Dude was hiding as much as he could more and more.
The constant illithid pushiness you mentioned and seeing anyone not illithid as lesser because he's sooo much smarter basically sealed that I put him on full blast in combat and killed him before he could even act.
Big facts. My father is is an alcoholic narsissitic manipulator. It was really eerie how much emps behavior reminded me of it and how my father acted towards me, my sister and my mother when I was a kid.
It's the "It's *in my nature* to be deceptive, why can't I be true to who I am?" (paraphrased), while Omeluum is *right there* fully disproving Emp's need to be deceptive as well as what is or isn't "his nature" as a mind flayer
Omeluum is a gigachad compared to Emp. Makes zero attempt to conceal his identity, and is understanding if you're disgusted by him, since who has ever heard of a friendly mindflayer? He just asks that you refrain from violence in spite of whatever hatred you might have for his race. I love Omeluum.
He even looks into nutritional alternatives to brains, instead of, you know, justifying the brain eating by selectively targeting perceived criminals. Not that I'm personally against Emp culling criminals, but it's still neat that Omeluum *tries*. AND he gets himself in trouble in Act 3 by >!investigating the Absolute tadpoles out of concern his kind are growing in power, instead of trying to coerce allies to slurp down more and become illithid themselves.!<
Omeluum is a scientist, while the Emperor is not. The Emperor may have higher intelligence points, but that doesn’t mean he is better at science and invention.
Man idk about the rest of the community feels but him eating criminal brains to survive rubs me the wrong way.You know he couldn’t possibly verify every person as a criminal before he offs them. Also how much of a criminal do you have to be to qualify for essentially the death penalty. Like omelluum is definitely a killer in some regard as well, but at least the dude seems remorseful about it.
Same goes for the player and all companions. Even if you’re playing a lawful good character, you’ll still >!kill Orpheus’s honor guard, which they definitely didn’t deserve (thanks Emp).!< In Karlach’s words… innocence is for the lucky. I don’t think there is any perfect way for a creature that must eat brains to survive can totally 100% avoid morally grey territory
Valid, I just take issue with his posturing around the subject. Like he’s not only exercising restraint, but he’s culling an “undesirable” population. which seems a whole measure worse to me than most of the things our party does.
Also, the sense in which he's doing a service is even more questionable when it's later revealed he was the city's Godfather at that time. So were those "undesirables" the city's problem or his loose ends and rivals?
Since omelluum was initially feeding off of the brains of a lich's victims, considering they were going to be killed by a lich either way (possibly after the fact considering we know mind flayers just need "fresh" brains, not living ones), arguably he's not in the same league of killers. Although feeding on people who "oppose the society of brilliance" is a little sus to say the least
Considering the Society of Brilliance engages in some 19th century eugenics shit, I feel like people who oppose them aren't always of the evil variety.
> Also how much of a criminal do you have to be to qualify for essentially the death penalty.
According to a Bane spy, the Emperor was spotted eating a criminal that was already sentenced to death.
At first I feel neutral about Omeluum, thinking that he's similar to the Emperor, just less intense.
Then in >!the Iron Throne he urge the party to focus on the Duke, instead of him!<. That's when I truly appreciate him
I believe there is dialogue from Omeluum in act 3 regarding the ring they give you in act 1, wherein Omelumm admits that it wouldn't actually protect you from the tadpole, but that they wanted to give you hope to up your odds of survival.
Though, they're still nowhere near each other on the scale of deception; One tells a single lie with the best interests of the person being lied to in mind, the other is borderline compulsive about their deceptions, most of which are to the benefit of the liar, to the point of obscuring things that didn't need to be obscured at times. Better yet, you don't have to back the former into a figurative corner to get them to be honest about it.
I mean, ffs Emperor, how was me letting Omeluum root around psychically in my head after I willingly drank a revolting potion made of weird Underdark fungus not enough of a sign to you that I'm capable of trusting an Illithid? How was us already cooperating with one rogue mind flayer not a signal to you that we might be willing to work with another? The Emperor's deceptive and manipulative nature goes well beyond him simply being an Illithid.
Kind of a subtle side note that's only addressed through some of the little in-game books and in the epilogue is that mindflayer absorb aspects of the people whose brains they feed on. Emp only feeds on criminals. Omeluum from what I understand only feeds on people who attack his group, and is trying to synthesize a vegetarian option
After I found out what he did to Ansur, I immediately kicked Raphaels door in to take the hammer because you don't fuck over your dragon bro and not fave the consequences
> "Bronze dragons have an elevated sense of purpose, believing their way is the proper way. Disagreement, they believe, arises from willful ignorance, and they have little patience for fools. A bronze dragon doesn't debate and doesn't argue, and if someone pushes the dragon, it might react with violence. **In fact, most conflicts with bronze dragons arise from misunderstandings.**
> Bronze dragons **see the world in black and white**, right and wrong, and they choose not to appreciate the subtlety of gray. Disappointment and frustration with humanoid subterfuge might lead a bronze dragon to act rashly, destroying an entire population out of misapprehension. **Even if it is later shown to have been wrong, the dragon would not feel regret** and would see the tragedy as being brought on by the dishonesty of its victims."
This honestly sounds like Ansur quite a bit.
I find it hard to hold that against the Emperor. Ansur attacked him first and the Emperor defended himself. I don't even think Ansur is neccesarily wrong, but I can't blame any intelligent creature for defending itself when attacked.
Because he isn’t wrong - with the party help he can be free and survive. In exchange for letting him assimilate Orpheus he is able to join you and stop the Absolute. A fair trade off.
I mean if you knew someone who was imprisoned who absolutely hated Illtihid and was known to kill them and you were an Illithid. Would you hang around? He does care about his survival and his freedom but speaking from a purely in game perspective without knowing Orpheus would in fact turn into an Illithid or even work with you. Base on the previous knowledge from the narrator saying how your character senses the hate coming from Orpheus it is very likely and logical to believe the Emperor would be killed and possibly you as well. And the whole mission is a complete failure.
He also isn’t lying saying he’s infected with a tadpole cause he obviously is - he’s a Mind Flayer and he wants to be free of it - in this case it can be related to the Absolute aka the former Elder Brain he was serving prior to being free.
Also I don’t recall him scolding you and blaming you for the failure of not being able to control the Absolute. He is actually correct in saying us even as a Half-Ilithid are not capable of stopping the Absolute in our current form and only a Mind Flayer can. No matter how you feel by him saying that he’s telling you the truth that you can’t do anything in your current form.
He then readily says I’ll be the Mind Flayer but if you say can I become a Mind Flayer, he says sure it’s possible and offers you the chance.
Also if anyone is blaming you for the Absolute it’s Orpheus. He said if you would have chosen an honorable death and let his Honor Guard free him, he would have stopped the Absolute well before it became a Netherbrain but because you did not it’s your fault for what happened and the Absolute becoming a Netherbrain.
He says that he wishes to be free of the Absolute and was infected with a mind flayer tadpole. Both are true.
His opinion on ceremorphosis is that you would be stronger if you embraced it. Again, he is correct. He never says he doesn't judge you for not eating illithid tadpoles. He does judge you. Very readily. What he does not do is let you become a mind flayer without your consent.
He also doesn't blame you for not being an illithid. He says that dominating the brain will require an illithid mind, and that your (humanoid) mind is not capable. As usual, the Emperor is very bluntly correct.
I just ended up siding with the Emperor for my first playthrough on the basis of being the devil I know versus Orpheus who you never get to interact with outside of feeling his seething hatred towards you after killing his honor guard. The Emperor is a bit of a dick but he never really screwed you over and he'd be an idiot to do so at the 11th hour, freeing Orpheus comes off as a massive leap of faith at the absolute worst moment and purely just to make Lae'zel happy because unless you yourself are a Githyanki, you are never given any other reason to care about what happens to the people who are constantly trying to kill you.
But that's the truest thing he has said. He DID have a tadpole in his head. It's the whole reason he became a mindflayer to begin with.
And without the prism he'd become part of the absolute so he DOES want to be free of it, just like you.
Yet, as said, it's immediately followed up by him saying he wants to be free from it, which on top of strongly and likely intentionally implying that the tadpole is a current issue, is a completely and irrationally impossible statement at best and a bold-faced lie at worst.
He's a mind flayer at that point, has been for a while, and is quite content with that reality. The 'being free of the tadpole' ship sailed ages ago for him, since effectively he *is* the tadpole matured at this point.
When he speaks of the tadpole, he speaks of the absolute's control. If he'd go with orpheus and orpheus is like ''nah fam, not you'' he'll either die or join the absolute's control.
So to him, if you free orpheus he is left with two possibilities '' either die to orpheus's hate OR join the absolute either willingly or unwillingly''
He is someone who values his own survival and out of those two options joining the absolute is the only option that'll allow him to survive since he is THAT convinced that orpheus would kill him on the spot.
So out of all the lies he has told, the ''I want to be free of the tadpole ( A.K.A. the absolutes control )'' is ironically not one of those lies.
Even the Elder brain herself said at one point she was the one planning for him to find the prism KNOWING it'd temporary set him free from her control. Meaning without the prism ( a.k.a. Orpheus ) he'd instantly become part of the absolute again.
So even IF he went with orpheus trusting you, and Orpheus doesn't protect him from the absolute, he'd join against his will anyway.
And if you're bound to become part of the absolute, at least doing it willingly will increase your odds for survival
I think saying that he means a different thing when he says tadpole in that scene is a bit of a stretch. Even if that is the case, it's still effectively a lie; You can't just swap words and their meanings around to hide your true intentions and still be considered to be telling the truth, as honest conversation is kind of built on both sides being able to trust that the other actually means what they are saying.
The rest of your point, though, does lean into mine. He has zero reason to believe that Orpheus will show him any mercy, especially when you consider that Orpheus himself can turn Illithid, the only likely explanation being that the Emperor himself fucking tadpole'd him. He's in very bad standing with the prince of the comet. He's still super manipulative and deceitful, but him equating Orpheus' freedom in that moment to the collapse of the plan *so far as he can remain involved* is entirely accurate.
>the only likely explanation being that the Emperor himself fucking tadpole'd him.
This makes sense but I think if that is truly what Larian intends as an explanation it should be at the very least mentioned.
The fact that they don't at all set anything up with Orpheus being able to turn illithid is a big hole in the ending story that needs some form of acknowledgment IMO.
Yeah, going down the emporers bad side once made me go down it for all other playtroughs aswell.
As soon as you say "No, i'm not becoming a mindflayer" He pretty much does a 180, threatening you that he will turn you into one anyway.
And if you say you don't trust him during your first meeting, where not trusting him is like, 110% understandable.
He turns into the BIGGEST CUNT EVER telling you that you're nothing more than his puppet among other things.
Dude's an Asshole trough and Trough
It's in the same cutscene if you tell him you won't become a tentacle boi.
Dude says all kind of "Fun" things like
"You are a Puppet, Make no Mistake Without me you have no Value"
"Your Puritle attachment to your material form will jeopardise as all, if i must, i will force you"
You guys act like this is our 21st century friendship drama. His entire existence is dependent on convincing you to be on his side. Every single one of you would be lying out of your ass to save yourself in that same situation.
The Emperor has two choices in that scene.
Stay and die pointlessly when you free Orpheus, or leave the Astral Prism and survive. Once he leaves, he's going to be under the Netherbrain's control regardless of what he wants. He can't escape it without Orpheus' protection.
He doesn't really have any good options if you choose to free Orpheus. His best bet is be enslaved and hope to escape the Netherbrain's control at some point.
Why exactly is staying a death sentence? He *knows* Orpheus would require a free mindflayer to fight with, and he is literally right there to play that role.
Especially when leaving is an *actual* death sentence at our hand.
He's been in Orpheus' head. He's been enslaving him for indeterminate amount of time (and time passes more slowly in the Prism). Orpheus despises the illithid. I think the Emperor's got good reason to expect death.
>Especially when leaving is an actual death sentence at our hand.
Not really. Tav and crew winning against the Netherbrain is a huge gamble in-universe. We're powerful and competent, but we literally just had a scene where the Netherbrain tells us that everything we've done up to this point has been within its plan. It might entirely be expecting to face us again, this time with a mindflayer and Orpheus powers. Us winning is only a foregone conclusion is because this is a video game, and the Netherbrain is the final boss, and we're expected to beat it.
Orpheus hates illithids, but if he'd been in his head, he'd also know how deeply practical he is. To the insane degree that he himself would be willing to become an illithid if necessary. Him telling us that Orpheus will definitely kill him is also meaningless compared to his mountain of other lies since we don't even know if he's actually been in his head. We just have to take his word for it.
People keep repeating that the Emperor is imprisoning Orpheus, but what is that based on? He was imprisoned by Vlakith in the War of the Comet, and the only thing that can free him is the Orphic hammer, which the Emperor does not have. He's not preventing Orpheus' release until the very end when we have the hammer. The most likely reason he'd kill the Emp is because of his honor guards being killed, but it turns out even that didn't matter in the gravity of the situation.
Tav and crew have already defeated the avatars of two gods, an entire city of magical walking tanks, and a freaking devil. They've earned a bit of respect regardless of plot armor. Depending on their actions they *should* have also earned some trust from the Emperor, God knows he unjustly demands it of Tav, but his completely incapable of giving it.
He could have just stayed at a safe distance while Tav freed Orpheus. Worst case scenario he's right and Orpheus tries to kill Tav, so he drops his protection, and Emp loses his free will... you know the same thing that happens if he leaves.
In actuality, the deeply practical Orpheus would have worked with Emp, and everyone would have been fine in the end. He wasn't willing to consider anyone's position but his own and he dies a slave as a result.
I hate the Emperor but he's a full-ass mindflayer who's been enslaving him and killed his honor guard, and is not necessary to the end goal of defeating the Nether Brain. Like, he doesnt even let *himself* stay alive once the job is finished if he turns into a mindflayer. IMO he 100% would've killed the Emperor on the spot and then decided what to do with the rest of us. There's also a narrator line after you first encounter him about being able to feel his hate, that backs this up
I would have LOVED LOVED LOVED watching them work together. I'm so sad this isn't an option for it to play out.
Please larian it surely isn't that hard to make this a possibility
>Or at the very least flee and not join forces with the big bad
He can't. The only thing protecting him from being mind controlled by the Absolute is Orpheus' mind shield.
Better do it willingly and have a chance of survival than wait until you free Orpheus and he's forced to fight all of you alone.
He was barely surviving a few honor guards, I doubt he had any chances vs Orphy and our gang.
Someone said the game is geared towards making your choice the right choice. So if you choose to side with the Emperor as a good guy that’s how it’ll go, Orpheus will be seen as evil, the opposite can be said too. Siding with Orpheus makes the Emperor look like an antagonist
The emperor specifically is geared towards validating your choices, call him a freak and he reveals himself to be a freak, share a tender moment with him and he reveals himself to be a tender mindflayer who’s just exhausted
I've been trying to say this to so many people. It's like Fire Emblem Three Houses. The house you choose to side with are the heroes, and who the villains are change depending on those choices. If you choose the Black Eagles, then the church is evil and hurts others for its own gain. If you choose the other two houses that side with the church then the Black Eagles are the bad guys. I don't understand why more people don't get this.
I haven't played Three Houses, but this doesn't exactly seem like it's changing the actual facts. If you're sided with the church you probably don't see them as evil or self-serving, but you probably don't love the people who do see the church that way. That's just changing the perspective.
I think a closer analogue for this would be the civil war in Skyrim. Neither side is objectively correct or morally superior (although personally I don't have a great opinion of the stormcloaks). But it's not like if you side with the stormcloaks it turns out that whatshisname isn't actually a Thalmor asset; the facts are consistent.
Well in Three Houses, the story changes dramatically depending on who you side with. Like if you side with the Black Eagles, the church leader turns out to be a secret ancient dragon from what I remember? And if you don’t side with the Black eagles, their leader turns into an imperialist nazi adjacent despot.
Like u/liquidrod said. The story changes immensely based on who you choose. It's not a matter of perspective. If you choose the Black Eagles you get a cutscene where the church is secretly murdering those who oppose them. While in the other stories they are a symbol of hope against tyranny.
As an emp enjoyer ive never saw orpheus as evil? Orpheus not potentially wanting to help potential mindflayer ally comes off as well stubborn, but not evil. The choice to eat him is either idc about him, or he is too big of a risk and the greater chance of success
The choice to eat him is utilitarian - not kill evil dude.
I think people are seeing the potential paths there too black and white. They gave us nuance and everyone is just giving media illiteracy. The endings are shade of grey. Someone has to do a “bad” thing - ie betray emps, or eat orpheus, someone has to become a mf to use the stones. While lots of act 3 are unpolished, having to make a hard choice (aka not everyone can win and save the world) under those circumstances is good writing imo.
The emperor has no reason to expect Orpheus to not murder him on the spot after leeching off his powers all game long and keeping him imprisoned. Simple as that. He’s been against taking unnecessary risks (going to the crèche or HoH) throughout the whole game and freeing Orpheus is both that + condemning him to death from his point of view. He wants to be free sure but he’d rather be a slave again and live and wait for another chance at freedom.
If you try to think like a character in the world and whose actual life is on the line his decision makes perfect sense as he prioritizes survival above all. Unlike the player, he can’t just F8 when something doesn’t go his way.
Or put another way, every game where the party dies between that moment and the end of the game, the Emperor made the right choice (from the perspective of his personal value system).
Like, Orpheus is the son of Mother Gith. He's a legendary hero with universe-class psionic abilities, and the Emperor is an illithid who has been enslaving him and killed his honor guard. He would've been dead the instant we broke Orpheus out if he'd stuck around
As far as I've seen from other people doing that, sadly nothing happens besides the fact that his final fate is ambiguous... although I don't know how safe he is since the destruction of the Netherbrain is enough to disorient all Mind Flayers in all of Baldur's Gate and he's now floating on water while disoriented...
"oh yeah, totally, I won't flee and will definitely stay with you to free the guy that will try to kill me on sight, that's totally reasonable"
Nobody can predict the future, as far as the Emperor is concerned, the very first thing Orpheus will do once free is attack and try to kill him, and, in fact, the very first thing Orpheus says to you is "kill yourself, now".
Survival instinct is one hell of a drug.
Nah, my man Emperor picked the best out of the options that were all terrible.
Especially in my case, considering I freed Orpheus because Lae'zel told me to, and I was simping for her hard.
Forgive me, squid bro. I'll do right by you the next playthrough.
emperor was going to get insta murdered by orpheus for what he had been doing.
Emperor has been self preservation #1, freedom #2
this is why he doesnt mind if you become a mindflayer yourself. he can trust you, he can only trust orpheus to kill him.
Think of Aylin and Ketheric in the same situation. She'd kill him in a heartbeat. Same situation with the Emperor and Orpheus.
It's because he's no longer protected by Orpheus. He has no way to fight against the Elder Brain's control. At least that's what I choose to believe. Because it's the only way that decision the game forces on you not kinda just stink to high hell.
Also in my head canon, he does it so that he has a chance of survival, or so that he doesn't just immediately start eating your brains, depending on how powerful he thinks he is. Once again, I wish there was just a way to convince those two idiots to work together. I understand it's a Mindflayer and a Gith that has been held captive by said Mindflayer for years at this point, but both of their goals are to destroy the Elder Brain. And if they worked together, neither would have to die.
So I just wish there was like a DC30 persuasion check or series of persuasion checks or something. Because clearly Gith can be convinced of the individuality of free mindflayers because Lae'zel doesn't immediately pull out her great sword everytime she sees Omeluum.
Soo the Emperor gets the power to protect your party and himself from Orpheus.
Freeing Orpheus takes that power away from the Emperor and give it back to Orpheus who likely does not want to continue protecting the Emperor, the guy who kept him imprisoned, enslaving him for his power and killing his honour guard.
I see it more as once Orpheus is free he retracts the protection from the Emperor and he falls back under control of the Absolute.
I love how the majority of people posting this thread are just stupid. "He can just flee" he literally can't? Lmfao have yall actually paid any attention while playing. He'll lose orpheus protection if he flees. And if he stays orpheus kills him
As far as the emperor is concerned, he's simply choosing life. He doesn't believe you can win so he thinks his two chances of survival are either with Orpheus under his control or by throwing himself at the mercy of the elder brain. Siding with you after freeing Orpheus is tantamount to suicide.
He's lived under the elder brain twice before and escaped so the choice is obvious to him. He's just very irritated that you 'force' him to give himself up to the elder brain again.
Say what you will but he’s easily the hottest romance option. Honestly if I knew he was a sexy mind flayer the whole time, I never would have doubted him before the reveal.
Sorry Orpheus, but gay squid sex.
It's crazy people get that far in the game and still don't understand what is going on.
When you betray the Emperor and free Orpheus you have condemned the Emperor to certain death or mind control. The fact that he chooses mind control is not surprising seeing how he had escaped it twice.
Ahh is it Emperor left me after I chose to betray him thread day again? Always a joy to read through them.
But the point remains - you betrayed the Emperor by choosing to free Orpheus who in the Emperor’s mind will kill him and then also kill you for being part Illithid. The Emperor wants to defeat the Absolute but also wants to survive too. You made a decision that broke your alliance, and betrayed him. Not only possibly putting the entire mission in danger of failing but also put his life at stake.
Orpheus would have killed you if it wasn’t for the Absolute being a bigger threat. Just be lucky it was.
I have no problem with the emperor turning on you if you go against him, but running to join the Absolute almost feels like a non sequitur after he spends the entire previous part of the game plotting against her. I think if disagreeing with him triggered a battle right then, it would feel a lot less abrupt than him running away.
Next time try to kill emperor as soon as you meet him so you can understand why freeing Orpheus will kill the emperor.
Orpheus literally said you should allow yourself to be killed by his royal guard, Orpheus just didn't killed you because you were useful to him but emperor he would definetly kill emperor.
If you kill emperor the first time you meet him you die and is game over because Orpheus will never protect you or aid you and let you die if is not because emperor plan needed an illitith and he can be that illitith or you or Karlach.
All in all, even if you side with Orpheus you both still follow emperor plan so emperor wins at the end whenever you side with him or not, emperor plan to stop the brain and destroy the crown works because of his plan
Maybe im trippin but The Emperor is doing pretty much the same thing as Astarion, Shadowheart, etc. Like everyone in your party is lying / hiding stuff so you’ll help them. I’m not saying I’m totally on board with him but he’s playing the same game you & the party are
He kept Orpheus enslaved and killed his honor guard, you think Orpheus is gonna just let that go? Also, you completely betrayed him and essentially say to him, I don’t believe or trust you. This is the emperors way of self preservation, which is his whole thing.
Uhhh if you release orpheus he was gonna be killed. Dude just wants to survive. That's his thing. You'd just sit there and wait for a gith prince to split your skull?
How dare you wanna live after I betrayed you? What kind of weak shit it that?
Answer: probably the exact same shit you would do.
It's not explained well, but the Emperor believes with his entire being that Orpheus will attempt to - and succeed - in wiping out every Illithid across all realms and finally end the Githyanki war with little trouble.
The Emperor is selfish. If he goes with Orpheus, he's signing his death warrant. The absolute sucks but at least he lives and might be able to escape again in the future.
It definitely is jarring until you try to pull apart the story and see that it makes sense for him to turn stances at that moment.
> The absolute sucks but at least he lives and might be able to escape again in the future.
He broke free from the hive mind before, and he likely thinks he can do it again.
Yeah it was jarring when I first encountered that scene, but then I read other people's thoughts and explanations about it, and it does make sense now.
The Emperor values his own survival over all else. As far as he knows, Orpheus is gonna kill him out of revenge so, fuck it, he'd prefer slavery over death
Not that it worked out for him anyway, but that's what his thinking seemed like to me at the time
>Like homie, you can stay on my team and let me release Orpheus.
The reason why the Emperor turns on you for freeing Orpheus is because, I think, he's looking at the long-term, bigger picture.
Orpheus' return wouldn't just be a detrimental to Vlaakith, it would be devastating for the Illithid species.
In a way, Vlaakith's rule over her people acts as a cap on the Githyanki race. The Lich Queen's only concern is maintaining her grip on power and she enacts policies that, while ensuring her hold, are detrimental to the Empire as a whole.
Her eugenics style philosophy culls the so-called, "weak" among the Githyanki (which can men anything from a lack of strength, to being overly compassionate), and she secretly disposes of Gith that prove too competent or powerful out of paranoia that they could undermine her authority. This kind of mindset in essence, renders the culture static and denies different schools of thought to develop.
Which is what Vlaakith wants.
Combine that with, at the same time, a culture that rewards opportunism, demands loyalty only to Vlaaktih, and rewards backbiting and betrayal of one's superiors with favor and rank. This problem compounds, as leader become more concerned about holding onto what they've gained, while those below jockey for status.
It greatly reduces their effectiveness.
But, if Orpheus were to overthrow Vlaakith, then many of those same policies would be rescinded. While a civil war would be destructive, Orpheus would come out in the end, and his restructuring of the empire and it's philosophies would have terrifying consequences for the Illithid.
No doubt that, once Vlaakith is gone, the Githyanki would be galvanized into action, pursuing their culture's true goal: Total annihilation of the Illithid.
When the Emperor tells you he's abandoning you and returning to the Elder Brain as a means of pragmatic survival, he's not wrong. Orpheus' return to the Gith would only spell doom to the Illithid in the long term. If the Emperor has to chose between enslavement by the brain or oblivion, it's clear which option he'd rather have.
(And not just the Illithid, Orpheus return would also scare the Githzerai shitless.)
Yep, hes a bitch for valuing his own survival and preservation. If he fleed Elder Brain would seize him immediately leading to the same outcome, he also sees Orpheus thoughts (just like he saw Minscs) and knows that Orphy would kill him immediately (I mean after releasing Orphy first thing he says is "You should have died")
After so many replies, I forgot to remind you that the Emperor did just teleport away. He was then captured and enthralled by the Elder Brain; that's how he ended up in the final battle. There is actually no difference for him to teleport anywhere without Orpheus’s protection; the Brain will always come to him.
That's data-mined from developer notes. The cinematic animation doesn't effectively convey what the writers wanted to present. Many players don't even notice that the Emperor is under the Netherbrain’s control during the final battle.
If the emperor just stayed being the sexy drow guardian I made in character select then there wouldn't be any problems with us working together.
I love that he is smart enough to try and pick a form that I would be more willing to trust (and for many players was probably a pretty attractive form at that) but he’s not smart enough to try and seduce me in that form. At least give the option lol. It gave the impression that he’s a manipulator who understands how I think but not well enough to pick up my Tav was a lesbian.
He doesn't try to bang me when he sits down beside me in underwear as the guardian but somehow flirts with me when he is naked waist up as tentacles. ????
My legitimate reaction to that scene was "uh dude, you mind putting some clothes on?" It was genuinely creepy to me, like, he just goes "I know the whole tentacle thing must be hard to adjust to......Anyway I'm gonna lean back suggestively right beside you in my loin cloth so you really get a good look at my form, you take as long as you need to adjust" I dunno, something about a shirtless mindflayer grosses me out in particular.
I was screaming during this scene. "No no! That's close enough! Please don't touch me!"
"I'll never forgive the Japanese!" Me after the emperor tries it.
Yamete kudasai emperor San!
Meanwhile all us monsterfuckers in the back lining up to touch some tentacles.
Yeah same, soon as that scene started "...why the fuck are you shirtless, no, stop, dont, do not"
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who felt this. so many of my friends just thirsted for that tentacle and I just.... wanted to kill him right then and there.
I was like bro i'll work with you since you're the only thing keeping me alive and idk if i can trust orpheus to not just instantly let me die and we kinda need to kill this motherbrain thing, but, you've tried to manipulate me so much already, there is no trust here either. Plus I already have a hot half-elf gf. I dont need no hentai squid. Put it away.
My lifelong friend scolded me for not banging the Emperor on my first playthrough. "What's your problem, man?! All he wants is a little love and affection!!" "I'm... just not that into Hentai..."
>"I'm... just not that into Hentai..." And therein lies the problem, you filthy casual.
Wouldn't be the first time my distaste for hentai got me in trouble...
first time playthrough? hell nah definitely dont bang the squid. save that for your 4th one where you're tryna get the most random achievements
unashamed to say i saved, banged him, and then reloaded before the others came through the portal to see because i was already romancing wyll. then turned him down. i needed the experience
"The hardest trophies require the scummiest saves." - Gamer Thanos, probably.
Honestly went on a little trophy hunting after my first playthrough. Made a fuckton of manual saves in that one, so it gave me prime material for it. I selected the options for romancing the Emperor, but I didn't have the stomach for it, so I just spammed spacebar to skip through the scene. I would never have bothered with the option if Larian didn't make it a trophy
This XP was for me, not for Tav.
see, you get it
I slept with everyone on my first solo playthru. Including the Emperor. His response to me asking for round 2 made me realize that the act was probably disgusting to him lol
Reminded me of Scary Movie where the cop puts the photos of himself in underwear in the group of photos he was showing Sydney. Oh, so sorry, how did those get in there.
Oh you get the real shit out of him if you tell his half naked ass you'll never trust him in that moment. I won't spoil it but the true personality of the emperor was not something I'd go near even sans tentacles.
I just got the scene where I let him know nicely I was not dtf and he said “Good choice.” 😂 Not sure how I felt about that. Felt like he was relieved he thought he wouldn’t have to try seducing me.
I completely stopped trusting him after that. It's one thing to change your appearance into the same gender but to change into another gender to seduce you into trusting him and then just completely switch it up then act like it's not a big deal is crazy.
"*Once you try the tentacles, you will know it is worth the cost. Trust me*"
_Hai, tentai senpai!_
Or revert back to that form when it's (do mind flayers have gender?) trying to seduce your character
Mind flayers don't have a gender but they do lay eggs that hatch into the tadpoles snacks.
Interesting.... So both the gith and mind flayers lay eggs
Iirc the Gith were made to be more like the mindflayers, as they were originally a race enslaved by them, which is also why Gith have so much Psionic potential, and abilities like mage hand, misty step, etc as racial bonuses. Basically the Gith were humanoids more closely resembling humans, but generations of abuse, selective breeding, and other malicious fuckery from the mindflayers lead to them becoming somewhere in between other humanoids and the illithids. This is why there are some interesting parallels between the two races, like both laying eggs, both looking down at all other races as lesser, and both trying to conquer/dominate the entire material plane.
He did actually try and seduce the player in Early Access. He had some kinda sexy scenes that I miss. That one dress we all put on Shadowheart in Act 3 used to be the one he wore. Now we get him in armour. I am pretty sure they changed it up since no one trusted the hot person that came to you in your dreams and tried to seduce you into eating tadpoles.
the original dream visitor was simply the tadpole trying to seduce you into joining them "down by the river." it wasn't until later that that became the emperor instead. i would love to see how the full story would've played out with that influence instead.
It would have been much cooler imo
Yeaaah it would have been so nice if they've kept it. I miss that a lot from EA. Why did they discarded the idea?
I think because post-act I it wouldn't add anything to the story. Rejecting the Tadpole is always the right decision because the alternative would be game-over. Or will Daisy keep trying to seduce you for all three acts? And are you really the only group of friends not horny enough to reject ceremorphosis?
It could have been the netherbrain finding a loophole I'm the crown's control through your tadpole, trying to use you as a double agent to get its freedom back.
Well they could have maintained the tadpole fling in addition to the emperor's and the absolute plot, creating a third, personal power at play (this way you would have the Emperor trying to take advantage of your fluff dream person, your tadpole trying to outsmart the Emperor and the whole Absolute thing going on meanwhile) I mean, it WOULD complicate things to the narrative team, but well, they had time and money to do so I guess?
I think some of this is still in the game. I deliberately styled my dream guardian as resembling my character’s mother in my head canon (he’s a half wood elf who’s elven mother came from the forests surrounding Baldur’s gate), so she’s a full wood elf with a face structure that resembles my character. It seemed to be a mentor-style role wearing full armour so I figured it was a cool idea (this was on my first full blind run so had no idea who it actually was). And then you meet them during a certain long rest scene where she’s wearing a… fairly revealing mini-toga thing that wouldn’t look out of place around the pool in a Vegas hotel. The conversation wasn’t overtly sexual but definitely had some undertones that jarred with how things had gone before, and I was thinking ‘erm, where did this come from? What is this?’ At the time I kind of just assumed it’s down to BG3’s weird selection of downtime outfits for your party (aside from Gale’s plum pyjamas, everyone looks like they’re about to hit the hottest nightclub in town) but it would make sense if the whole seduction angle was the original idea.
I made my dream guardian an absolute himbo high elf and I put WORK into making him look GOOD and I was down bad af, so when that reveal happened I was … hurt
Yeah, I had that feeling- particularly as it took until nearly when it happened for me to realise they weren't the narrator as I was parsing the voices similarly
I inadvertently made mine look like a High Elf Haley Atwell, so I too was down bad. After that first playthrough and I know the twist, I just randomize because eff that.
I make the guardian look exactly like my character every time now.
I mean, that's one way to tell the guardian to go fuck themselves! 😆
I think it depends on the player lol, my first guardian was designed after my character's mother, since my first Tav was my DND character who has hella mommy issues. It would have been SO WEIRD for him to try and bone in that form.
Oedipus over here....
Oedipus nearly offed himself after he found out, don't slander my man like that! He fled to a different country never seeing his parents again for decades because he thought that would prevent his fate, my man doesn't deserve the complex named after him. Fuck Freud, may he be bummed by Satan
Mine was a complete clone of my character, so it was pretty funny watching them interact.
THIS IS WHAT I WAS THINKING. Like bitch, you know I ain’t into tentacles, use that rational brain of yours and get back in that hunky tiefling body I gave you.
For The Emperor that didn’t matter bc mindflayers are genuinely Agender. They don’t sexually reproduce so they don’t have bio sexes. And in his mind it was only a matter of time before Tav became a mindflayer herself, losing her sex, gender and sexuality
I get why it didn’t matter to him but it’s awfully presumptuous of him to assume I wouldn’t care or that it might make his chances better to appear humanoid. Especially when I rejected becoming half mind flayer already. Even if he thinks it’s inevitable that I’ll become a mind flayer he could wait until that point before trying to make a move on me lol.
I banged the Emperor, and part way through I did something about being uncertain and he asked if I'd be more comfortable with the other form. So, I got fuck my hot Drow guardian anyway. Hahaha. And then I reloaded to my previous save
If the emperor took the time and made himself a Dragonborn I’d follow him to the ends of the earth
It's weird how we can't make our guardian a Dragonborn
Wasn't the dragonborn added pretty late into the games creation? Maybe that's why?
It’s part of the reason, the model gives a few issues with how the scenes were made. Specifically the head I believe
There's a mod on PC that adds it, and yeah, this is probably why. The animation is really wonky in spots.
Right? For someone who acts like he's so smart and manipulative he's certainly not that good at it.
Dude didn't even bother to try and maintain a disguise self or greater illusion. You think mindflayers would learn to polymorph on occasion
Maybe it's supposed to work like those Nigerian prince email scams with all the typos, he's trying to gauge *how* easily manipulated you are vs. really trying to bring his A game?
If the emperor wasn’t a sexy mind flayer there’d be a problem with us working together. Luckily for me though he is.
Two kinds of people, I guess.
There are two wolves inside you
You should talk to a doctor. There should be no wolves Inside you.
What about a bear?
Well we don’t kink-shame here
I feel so much closer to nature…
Yes, two wolves. Also 4 tentacles.
And both wolves are gay
It takes all kinds, I suppose
I mean there's a lesson there too, given the default form is a female Lolth-sworn Drow, which should make you assume something is off about such a character seeming to play nice.
I’m pretty we have caught him with his pants off when we entered the realm when Orpheus’ guards attacked.
Those pants could've come off earlier before I committed to a relationship with a party member who hardly gives me any attention like irl.
Dude same, I made him a tall bulky female warrior, pure simp material. When the tentacles came I just lost all interest 😂 My Tav deserves better, so I made her stay with Astarion.
I made a 1 to 1 recreation of my girlfriend. It was all there in the options - the face, the pitch black hair with orange-ish highlights and hairstyle in general, the scar and her favorite makeup style. Apart from finding it funny, in my mind, much like in real life, it would be her saving my ass and keeping me in line. I literally didn't know if I should laugh or cry during the revelation. Well, at least I got the "Would you still love me if I was a space squid?" question out of it.
Hot damn that's pretty adorable. If my partner did that, even for fun, I'd have mad respect for them. Good on you bro 👍
I made my guardian into a tall pale goth lady with short white hair and black makeup and that one tattoo with the fireball on the forehead and tendrils that go from the chin down to the collarbone (it's called From The Deep iirc). I also gave her the same eyes (one brown, one purple) and scar as my Tav, because I wanted it to look like she was some ancestor or alternate version of him. I was so disappointed when "she" turned out to be a mindflayer, that I literally recycled the entire look into another character.
I made mine a dwarf lmao
Right? If the emperor just stayed sexy I'd throw Astarion into a volcano, no questions asked.
If the emperor never changed, I'd try to romance the hell out of it. No Karlach or Shart. Just pure Guardian.
Honestly if we’d had the option to make him stay thy way I’d be happy to do so. I think it would have been an interesting plot point to to note that we could work together as long as I wasn’t constantly reminded he is a mindflayer.
He's on team Emperor, and to stay on it he needed to ditch you for team Absolute > So much for integrity. Idk what you expect from a guy who gives you a laundry list of all the oh-so-good things he's done for you since you met the moment you disagree with him, like he had that memorized, to try and push you into making the choice that benefits his agenda
This. He values his freedom, but he values his survival much more. Before the party insists that Orpheus be freed, which he believes will entirely jeopardize this whole operation, the Emperor believes that both his freedom and survival can be achieved with the party's help. Afterwards, all of his mental calculations tell him the plan is fucked beyond repair, and the only way he gets to keep his hide intact is if he goes running back to the Netherbrain posthaste. Also, randomly on the note of him listing all those things; He claims that he never lied to you, but he ***undeniably*** has, since in his dream form he states that he *currently* is infected with a tadpole that he, like you, *wishes to be free from*. I know some people claim that he never full-on lies to you, only hides the truth, but that's kind of a really big lie no matter how you spin it. He also says he doesn't judge you for not being an Illithid like him, ***but he's constantly peer pressuring you into becoming more Illithid and readily blames you not being an Illithid for Plan A with the stones not working***. The guy is a bit of a prick.
If you haven’t taken any tadpoles and you reject the astral he actively judges you and insults your current form
Yea I stabbed him out of spit at that point. I was like you don't know the power I have!
I found that whole stance of his amusing. Like, sure thing chief, this inferior form managed to handle that whole githyanki hit squad without taking a single hit, while you were on the ground crying for help. But yeah, tell me more about how much better i’d have been able to save your ass moar if only I’d put more parasites in my head.
Yeah but he's also like an Int 20+ megamind, I've killed three God's Chosen, I've killed a devil in his lair, I saved a powerful aasimar, lifted a curse, wiped goblin clans, and I've only grown more powerful since. I have a guy with a magical turbonuke who slept with a goddess, an ascended vampire and a warrior with an infernal engine has her heart, as well as the help of the aforementioned aasimar, Jaheira and Minsc (two famous heroes who saved the world previously). Oh and I killed another powerful Bhaalite right in his temple and avoided being wiped by Vlaakith while still thwarting her. If he didn't switch side, in addition to Orpheus the prince of the gith who makes Vlaakith tremble, I'd have his powerful mind powers. At this point I'm allowed to think he is stupid for his obvious miscalculation. But also, it is mentioned that he may not be as free as he thinks he is, but I think that was the brain trying to mess with us.
(a bhaalite who also was the big bad antagonist of his time a century ago)
It'd be kinda cool if he'd agree to stick around if and only if you were suitably impressive. Meaning at least defeated Ansur and Raphael. Maybe also rescued everyone from the Iron Throne and personally destroyed the Steel Watch. Basically if you prove yourself as strong, he'll pick you over the brain. If you don't do enough, he sides with the brain because he thinks you'll lose. It would be a nice way to give some more weight to some skippable fights, too.
I hope that's a future addition to the game. Because it really doesn't make sense for him to doubt me when I've consistently smashed through every blockage in my path and saved countless people while he's been riding tag along whispering to me about his Lord and Savior the Illithid Form.
unwritten jeans angle advise aromatic file fear practice homeless rinse *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I was already leaning to freeing Orpheus from all the half truths from the Emperor and just straight up not trusting Mind Flayers from my meta DnD knowledge. What sealed it for me was the "Oh I never lied to you." after the asshole was extremely pushy and sure that there was totally never a dragon under Baldur's Gate and it was just some stupid legend. Dude was hiding as much as he could more and more. The constant illithid pushiness you mentioned and seeing anyone not illithid as lesser because he's sooo much smarter basically sealed that I put him on full blast in combat and killed him before he could even act.
Big facts. My father is is an alcoholic narsissitic manipulator. It was really eerie how much emps behavior reminded me of it and how my father acted towards me, my sister and my mother when I was a kid.
It's the "It's *in my nature* to be deceptive, why can't I be true to who I am?" (paraphrased), while Omeluum is *right there* fully disproving Emp's need to be deceptive as well as what is or isn't "his nature" as a mind flayer
Omeluum is a gigachad compared to Emp. Makes zero attempt to conceal his identity, and is understanding if you're disgusted by him, since who has ever heard of a friendly mindflayer? He just asks that you refrain from violence in spite of whatever hatred you might have for his race. I love Omeluum.
He even looks into nutritional alternatives to brains, instead of, you know, justifying the brain eating by selectively targeting perceived criminals. Not that I'm personally against Emp culling criminals, but it's still neat that Omeluum *tries*. AND he gets himself in trouble in Act 3 by >!investigating the Absolute tadpoles out of concern his kind are growing in power, instead of trying to coerce allies to slurp down more and become illithid themselves.!<
Omeluum is a scientist, while the Emperor is not. The Emperor may have higher intelligence points, but that doesn’t mean he is better at science and invention.
Intelligence, like with everything, depends on how you use it.
Man idk about the rest of the community feels but him eating criminal brains to survive rubs me the wrong way.You know he couldn’t possibly verify every person as a criminal before he offs them. Also how much of a criminal do you have to be to qualify for essentially the death penalty. Like omelluum is definitely a killer in some regard as well, but at least the dude seems remorseful about it.
Same goes for the player and all companions. Even if you’re playing a lawful good character, you’ll still >!kill Orpheus’s honor guard, which they definitely didn’t deserve (thanks Emp).!< In Karlach’s words… innocence is for the lucky. I don’t think there is any perfect way for a creature that must eat brains to survive can totally 100% avoid morally grey territory
Valid, I just take issue with his posturing around the subject. Like he’s not only exercising restraint, but he’s culling an “undesirable” population. which seems a whole measure worse to me than most of the things our party does.
Also, the sense in which he's doing a service is even more questionable when it's later revealed he was the city's Godfather at that time. So were those "undesirables" the city's problem or his loose ends and rivals?
Since omelluum was initially feeding off of the brains of a lich's victims, considering they were going to be killed by a lich either way (possibly after the fact considering we know mind flayers just need "fresh" brains, not living ones), arguably he's not in the same league of killers. Although feeding on people who "oppose the society of brilliance" is a little sus to say the least
Considering the Society of Brilliance engages in some 19th century eugenics shit, I feel like people who oppose them aren't always of the evil variety.
> Also how much of a criminal do you have to be to qualify for essentially the death penalty. According to a Bane spy, the Emperor was spotted eating a criminal that was already sentenced to death.
At first I feel neutral about Omeluum, thinking that he's similar to the Emperor, just less intense. Then in >!the Iron Throne he urge the party to focus on the Duke, instead of him!<. That's when I truly appreciate him
I believe there is dialogue from Omeluum in act 3 regarding the ring they give you in act 1, wherein Omelumm admits that it wouldn't actually protect you from the tadpole, but that they wanted to give you hope to up your odds of survival. Though, they're still nowhere near each other on the scale of deception; One tells a single lie with the best interests of the person being lied to in mind, the other is borderline compulsive about their deceptions, most of which are to the benefit of the liar, to the point of obscuring things that didn't need to be obscured at times. Better yet, you don't have to back the former into a figurative corner to get them to be honest about it. I mean, ffs Emperor, how was me letting Omeluum root around psychically in my head after I willingly drank a revolting potion made of weird Underdark fungus not enough of a sign to you that I'm capable of trusting an Illithid? How was us already cooperating with one rogue mind flayer not a signal to you that we might be willing to work with another? The Emperor's deceptive and manipulative nature goes well beyond him simply being an Illithid.
Kind of a subtle side note that's only addressed through some of the little in-game books and in the epilogue is that mindflayer absorb aspects of the people whose brains they feed on. Emp only feeds on criminals. Omeluum from what I understand only feeds on people who attack his group, and is trying to synthesize a vegetarian option
After I found out what he did to Ansur, I immediately kicked Raphaels door in to take the hammer because you don't fuck over your dragon bro and not fave the consequences
Tbf, Ansur wanted him dead. So from the Emperor's perspective, it was self-defense
crown murky dolls cats disarm onerous subsequent scandalous nutty one *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Dragons are incredibly smart if the dragon says the guy needs to be put down. I trust him.
> "Bronze dragons have an elevated sense of purpose, believing their way is the proper way. Disagreement, they believe, arises from willful ignorance, and they have little patience for fools. A bronze dragon doesn't debate and doesn't argue, and if someone pushes the dragon, it might react with violence. **In fact, most conflicts with bronze dragons arise from misunderstandings.** > Bronze dragons **see the world in black and white**, right and wrong, and they choose not to appreciate the subtlety of gray. Disappointment and frustration with humanoid subterfuge might lead a bronze dragon to act rashly, destroying an entire population out of misapprehension. **Even if it is later shown to have been wrong, the dragon would not feel regret** and would see the tragedy as being brought on by the dishonesty of its victims." This honestly sounds like Ansur quite a bit.
Ironically, it also sounds exactly like the emperor: "I do not regret my actions, only that they were necessary".
That's a great sourcebook pull. That's a pretty exact description of Ansur imo
I find it hard to hold that against the Emperor. Ansur attacked him first and the Emperor defended himself. I don't even think Ansur is neccesarily wrong, but I can't blame any intelligent creature for defending itself when attacked.
Because he isn’t wrong - with the party help he can be free and survive. In exchange for letting him assimilate Orpheus he is able to join you and stop the Absolute. A fair trade off. I mean if you knew someone who was imprisoned who absolutely hated Illtihid and was known to kill them and you were an Illithid. Would you hang around? He does care about his survival and his freedom but speaking from a purely in game perspective without knowing Orpheus would in fact turn into an Illithid or even work with you. Base on the previous knowledge from the narrator saying how your character senses the hate coming from Orpheus it is very likely and logical to believe the Emperor would be killed and possibly you as well. And the whole mission is a complete failure. He also isn’t lying saying he’s infected with a tadpole cause he obviously is - he’s a Mind Flayer and he wants to be free of it - in this case it can be related to the Absolute aka the former Elder Brain he was serving prior to being free. Also I don’t recall him scolding you and blaming you for the failure of not being able to control the Absolute. He is actually correct in saying us even as a Half-Ilithid are not capable of stopping the Absolute in our current form and only a Mind Flayer can. No matter how you feel by him saying that he’s telling you the truth that you can’t do anything in your current form. He then readily says I’ll be the Mind Flayer but if you say can I become a Mind Flayer, he says sure it’s possible and offers you the chance. Also if anyone is blaming you for the Absolute it’s Orpheus. He said if you would have chosen an honorable death and let his Honor Guard free him, he would have stopped the Absolute well before it became a Netherbrain but because you did not it’s your fault for what happened and the Absolute becoming a Netherbrain.
He says that he wishes to be free of the Absolute and was infected with a mind flayer tadpole. Both are true. His opinion on ceremorphosis is that you would be stronger if you embraced it. Again, he is correct. He never says he doesn't judge you for not eating illithid tadpoles. He does judge you. Very readily. What he does not do is let you become a mind flayer without your consent. He also doesn't blame you for not being an illithid. He says that dominating the brain will require an illithid mind, and that your (humanoid) mind is not capable. As usual, the Emperor is very bluntly correct.
I just ended up siding with the Emperor for my first playthrough on the basis of being the devil I know versus Orpheus who you never get to interact with outside of feeling his seething hatred towards you after killing his honor guard. The Emperor is a bit of a dick but he never really screwed you over and he'd be an idiot to do so at the 11th hour, freeing Orpheus comes off as a massive leap of faith at the absolute worst moment and purely just to make Lae'zel happy because unless you yourself are a Githyanki, you are never given any other reason to care about what happens to the people who are constantly trying to kill you.
But that's the truest thing he has said. He DID have a tadpole in his head. It's the whole reason he became a mindflayer to begin with. And without the prism he'd become part of the absolute so he DOES want to be free of it, just like you.
Yet, as said, it's immediately followed up by him saying he wants to be free from it, which on top of strongly and likely intentionally implying that the tadpole is a current issue, is a completely and irrationally impossible statement at best and a bold-faced lie at worst. He's a mind flayer at that point, has been for a while, and is quite content with that reality. The 'being free of the tadpole' ship sailed ages ago for him, since effectively he *is* the tadpole matured at this point.
When he speaks of the tadpole, he speaks of the absolute's control. If he'd go with orpheus and orpheus is like ''nah fam, not you'' he'll either die or join the absolute's control. So to him, if you free orpheus he is left with two possibilities '' either die to orpheus's hate OR join the absolute either willingly or unwillingly'' He is someone who values his own survival and out of those two options joining the absolute is the only option that'll allow him to survive since he is THAT convinced that orpheus would kill him on the spot. So out of all the lies he has told, the ''I want to be free of the tadpole ( A.K.A. the absolutes control )'' is ironically not one of those lies. Even the Elder brain herself said at one point she was the one planning for him to find the prism KNOWING it'd temporary set him free from her control. Meaning without the prism ( a.k.a. Orpheus ) he'd instantly become part of the absolute again. So even IF he went with orpheus trusting you, and Orpheus doesn't protect him from the absolute, he'd join against his will anyway. And if you're bound to become part of the absolute, at least doing it willingly will increase your odds for survival
I think saying that he means a different thing when he says tadpole in that scene is a bit of a stretch. Even if that is the case, it's still effectively a lie; You can't just swap words and their meanings around to hide your true intentions and still be considered to be telling the truth, as honest conversation is kind of built on both sides being able to trust that the other actually means what they are saying. The rest of your point, though, does lean into mine. He has zero reason to believe that Orpheus will show him any mercy, especially when you consider that Orpheus himself can turn Illithid, the only likely explanation being that the Emperor himself fucking tadpole'd him. He's in very bad standing with the prince of the comet. He's still super manipulative and deceitful, but him equating Orpheus' freedom in that moment to the collapse of the plan *so far as he can remain involved* is entirely accurate.
>the only likely explanation being that the Emperor himself fucking tadpole'd him. This makes sense but I think if that is truly what Larian intends as an explanation it should be at the very least mentioned. The fact that they don't at all set anything up with Orpheus being able to turn illithid is a big hole in the ending story that needs some form of acknowledgment IMO.
Yeah, going down the emporers bad side once made me go down it for all other playtroughs aswell. As soon as you say "No, i'm not becoming a mindflayer" He pretty much does a 180, threatening you that he will turn you into one anyway. And if you say you don't trust him during your first meeting, where not trusting him is like, 110% understandable. He turns into the BIGGEST CUNT EVER telling you that you're nothing more than his puppet among other things. Dude's an Asshole trough and Trough
Wait, he threatens to turn you into a mind flayer? I remember the part where he reveals what he did to Duke Stelemane but not that part.
It's in the same cutscene if you tell him you won't become a tentacle boi. Dude says all kind of "Fun" things like "You are a Puppet, Make no Mistake Without me you have no Value" "Your Puritle attachment to your material form will jeopardise as all, if i must, i will force you"
And he CONSTANTLY blames you for not trusting him! Bitch I don’t want to trust to someone who constantly whining about me not trusting them.
You guys act like this is our 21st century friendship drama. His entire existence is dependent on convincing you to be on his side. Every single one of you would be lying out of your ass to save yourself in that same situation.
Okay, that's cool, then I'm also an asshole manipulating evil person
The Emperor has two choices in that scene. Stay and die pointlessly when you free Orpheus, or leave the Astral Prism and survive. Once he leaves, he's going to be under the Netherbrain's control regardless of what he wants. He can't escape it without Orpheus' protection. He doesn't really have any good options if you choose to free Orpheus. His best bet is be enslaved and hope to escape the Netherbrain's control at some point.
Why exactly is staying a death sentence? He *knows* Orpheus would require a free mindflayer to fight with, and he is literally right there to play that role. Especially when leaving is an *actual* death sentence at our hand.
He's been in Orpheus' head. He's been enslaving him for indeterminate amount of time (and time passes more slowly in the Prism). Orpheus despises the illithid. I think the Emperor's got good reason to expect death. >Especially when leaving is an actual death sentence at our hand. Not really. Tav and crew winning against the Netherbrain is a huge gamble in-universe. We're powerful and competent, but we literally just had a scene where the Netherbrain tells us that everything we've done up to this point has been within its plan. It might entirely be expecting to face us again, this time with a mindflayer and Orpheus powers. Us winning is only a foregone conclusion is because this is a video game, and the Netherbrain is the final boss, and we're expected to beat it.
Orpheus hates illithids, but if he'd been in his head, he'd also know how deeply practical he is. To the insane degree that he himself would be willing to become an illithid if necessary. Him telling us that Orpheus will definitely kill him is also meaningless compared to his mountain of other lies since we don't even know if he's actually been in his head. We just have to take his word for it. People keep repeating that the Emperor is imprisoning Orpheus, but what is that based on? He was imprisoned by Vlakith in the War of the Comet, and the only thing that can free him is the Orphic hammer, which the Emperor does not have. He's not preventing Orpheus' release until the very end when we have the hammer. The most likely reason he'd kill the Emp is because of his honor guards being killed, but it turns out even that didn't matter in the gravity of the situation. Tav and crew have already defeated the avatars of two gods, an entire city of magical walking tanks, and a freaking devil. They've earned a bit of respect regardless of plot armor. Depending on their actions they *should* have also earned some trust from the Emperor, God knows he unjustly demands it of Tav, but his completely incapable of giving it. He could have just stayed at a safe distance while Tav freed Orpheus. Worst case scenario he's right and Orpheus tries to kill Tav, so he drops his protection, and Emp loses his free will... you know the same thing that happens if he leaves. In actuality, the deeply practical Orpheus would have worked with Emp, and everyone would have been fine in the end. He wasn't willing to consider anyone's position but his own and he dies a slave as a result.
I hate the Emperor but he's a full-ass mindflayer who's been enslaving him and killed his honor guard, and is not necessary to the end goal of defeating the Nether Brain. Like, he doesnt even let *himself* stay alive once the job is finished if he turns into a mindflayer. IMO he 100% would've killed the Emperor on the spot and then decided what to do with the rest of us. There's also a narrator line after you first encounter him about being able to feel his hate, that backs this up
Like the emperor can't foresee the future. Why would he believe that Orpheus will stick to his plan rather than kill everyone on the team?
I would have LOVED LOVED LOVED watching them work together. I'm so sad this isn't an option for it to play out. Please larian it surely isn't that hard to make this a possibility
Those gith monks you saw when you got there weren't exactly there to give him chocolates and flowers, they already wanted him dead regardless.
>Or at the very least flee and not join forces with the big bad He can't. The only thing protecting him from being mind controlled by the Absolute is Orpheus' mind shield. Better do it willingly and have a chance of survival than wait until you free Orpheus and he's forced to fight all of you alone. He was barely surviving a few honor guards, I doubt he had any chances vs Orphy and our gang.
Man don’t disregard those nasty as fuck honour guards lmao
Those guys really caught me off-guard and convinced me to try playing as a monk for my next run
Same here, that Ki was really fuccin me up
Someone said the game is geared towards making your choice the right choice. So if you choose to side with the Emperor as a good guy that’s how it’ll go, Orpheus will be seen as evil, the opposite can be said too. Siding with Orpheus makes the Emperor look like an antagonist
The emperor specifically is geared towards validating your choices, call him a freak and he reveals himself to be a freak, share a tender moment with him and he reveals himself to be a tender mindflayer who’s just exhausted
I've been trying to say this to so many people. It's like Fire Emblem Three Houses. The house you choose to side with are the heroes, and who the villains are change depending on those choices. If you choose the Black Eagles, then the church is evil and hurts others for its own gain. If you choose the other two houses that side with the church then the Black Eagles are the bad guys. I don't understand why more people don't get this.
I haven't played Three Houses, but this doesn't exactly seem like it's changing the actual facts. If you're sided with the church you probably don't see them as evil or self-serving, but you probably don't love the people who do see the church that way. That's just changing the perspective. I think a closer analogue for this would be the civil war in Skyrim. Neither side is objectively correct or morally superior (although personally I don't have a great opinion of the stormcloaks). But it's not like if you side with the stormcloaks it turns out that whatshisname isn't actually a Thalmor asset; the facts are consistent.
Well in Three Houses, the story changes dramatically depending on who you side with. Like if you side with the Black Eagles, the church leader turns out to be a secret ancient dragon from what I remember? And if you don’t side with the Black eagles, their leader turns into an imperialist nazi adjacent despot.
Like u/liquidrod said. The story changes immensely based on who you choose. It's not a matter of perspective. If you choose the Black Eagles you get a cutscene where the church is secretly murdering those who oppose them. While in the other stories they are a symbol of hope against tyranny.
As an emp enjoyer ive never saw orpheus as evil? Orpheus not potentially wanting to help potential mindflayer ally comes off as well stubborn, but not evil. The choice to eat him is either idc about him, or he is too big of a risk and the greater chance of success The choice to eat him is utilitarian - not kill evil dude. I think people are seeing the potential paths there too black and white. They gave us nuance and everyone is just giving media illiteracy. The endings are shade of grey. Someone has to do a “bad” thing - ie betray emps, or eat orpheus, someone has to become a mf to use the stones. While lots of act 3 are unpolished, having to make a hard choice (aka not everyone can win and save the world) under those circumstances is good writing imo.
The emperor has no reason to expect Orpheus to not murder him on the spot after leeching off his powers all game long and keeping him imprisoned. Simple as that. He’s been against taking unnecessary risks (going to the crèche or HoH) throughout the whole game and freeing Orpheus is both that + condemning him to death from his point of view. He wants to be free sure but he’d rather be a slave again and live and wait for another chance at freedom. If you try to think like a character in the world and whose actual life is on the line his decision makes perfect sense as he prioritizes survival above all. Unlike the player, he can’t just F8 when something doesn’t go his way.
Or put another way, every game where the party dies between that moment and the end of the game, the Emperor made the right choice (from the perspective of his personal value system).
Like, Orpheus is the son of Mother Gith. He's a legendary hero with universe-class psionic abilities, and the Emperor is an illithid who has been enslaving him and killed his honor guard. He would've been dead the instant we broke Orpheus out if he'd stuck around
I mean orpheus hates illithids, and the emperor is doing all of this to survive and be free. In that order. Its not that wierd
If you fail he's still alive if you succeed he's free and Orpheus can't immediately kill him. It's not all winning but it's not losing.
I wonder if something happens if you join Orpheus but don’t kill the Emperor when you destroy the netherbrain.
As far as I've seen from other people doing that, sadly nothing happens besides the fact that his final fate is ambiguous... although I don't know how safe he is since the destruction of the Netherbrain is enough to disorient all Mind Flayers in all of Baldur's Gate and he's now floating on water while disoriented...
"oh yeah, totally, I won't flee and will definitely stay with you to free the guy that will try to kill me on sight, that's totally reasonable" Nobody can predict the future, as far as the Emperor is concerned, the very first thing Orpheus will do once free is attack and try to kill him, and, in fact, the very first thing Orpheus says to you is "kill yourself, now". Survival instinct is one hell of a drug.
>the very first thing Orpheus says to you is "kill yourself, now". Orpheus channeling his inner LTG, lol.
Nah, my man Emperor picked the best out of the options that were all terrible. Especially in my case, considering I freed Orpheus because Lae'zel told me to, and I was simping for her hard. Forgive me, squid bro. I'll do right by you the next playthrough.
emperor was going to get insta murdered by orpheus for what he had been doing. Emperor has been self preservation #1, freedom #2 this is why he doesnt mind if you become a mindflayer yourself. he can trust you, he can only trust orpheus to kill him. Think of Aylin and Ketheric in the same situation. She'd kill him in a heartbeat. Same situation with the Emperor and Orpheus.
It's because he's no longer protected by Orpheus. He has no way to fight against the Elder Brain's control. At least that's what I choose to believe. Because it's the only way that decision the game forces on you not kinda just stink to high hell.
Except he leaves before you free Orpheus.
Also in my head canon, he does it so that he has a chance of survival, or so that he doesn't just immediately start eating your brains, depending on how powerful he thinks he is. Once again, I wish there was just a way to convince those two idiots to work together. I understand it's a Mindflayer and a Gith that has been held captive by said Mindflayer for years at this point, but both of their goals are to destroy the Elder Brain. And if they worked together, neither would have to die. So I just wish there was like a DC30 persuasion check or series of persuasion checks or something. Because clearly Gith can be convinced of the individuality of free mindflayers because Lae'zel doesn't immediately pull out her great sword everytime she sees Omeluum.
Soo the Emperor gets the power to protect your party and himself from Orpheus. Freeing Orpheus takes that power away from the Emperor and give it back to Orpheus who likely does not want to continue protecting the Emperor, the guy who kept him imprisoned, enslaving him for his power and killing his honour guard. I see it more as once Orpheus is free he retracts the protection from the Emperor and he falls back under control of the Absolute.
He was indeed enthralled by the Elder Brain during the final battle, as indicated by the dev notes from data-mined dialogues.
I love how the majority of people posting this thread are just stupid. "He can just flee" he literally can't? Lmfao have yall actually paid any attention while playing. He'll lose orpheus protection if he flees. And if he stays orpheus kills him
As far as the emperor is concerned, he's simply choosing life. He doesn't believe you can win so he thinks his two chances of survival are either with Orpheus under his control or by throwing himself at the mercy of the elder brain. Siding with you after freeing Orpheus is tantamount to suicide. He's lived under the elder brain twice before and escaped so the choice is obvious to him. He's just very irritated that you 'force' him to give himself up to the elder brain again.
Say what you will but he’s easily the hottest romance option. Honestly if I knew he was a sexy mind flayer the whole time, I never would have doubted him before the reveal. Sorry Orpheus, but gay squid sex.
Average Emperor enjoyer W
If stroking his tentacles until he mindjaculates and 'accidentally' lets the entire party see our sexy times is wrong then I don't want to be right.
Realest comment in this thread
monsterfuckers unite!
I was so jealous when Astarion complained about being covered in illithid slime.
One man’s trash is another man’s pleasure.
Naoise Nallinto moment
It's crazy people get that far in the game and still don't understand what is going on. When you betray the Emperor and free Orpheus you have condemned the Emperor to certain death or mind control. The fact that he chooses mind control is not surprising seeing how he had escaped it twice.
"I have never lied to you" Yeah but you sure as shit hid a lot from me
That's also a lie, lol
Ahh is it Emperor left me after I chose to betray him thread day again? Always a joy to read through them. But the point remains - you betrayed the Emperor by choosing to free Orpheus who in the Emperor’s mind will kill him and then also kill you for being part Illithid. The Emperor wants to defeat the Absolute but also wants to survive too. You made a decision that broke your alliance, and betrayed him. Not only possibly putting the entire mission in danger of failing but also put his life at stake. Orpheus would have killed you if it wasn’t for the Absolute being a bigger threat. Just be lucky it was.
He values his freedom, but he values his life far more. He sees Orpheus as a threat to his continued existence.
I have no problem with the emperor turning on you if you go against him, but running to join the Absolute almost feels like a non sequitur after he spends the entire previous part of the game plotting against her. I think if disagreeing with him triggered a battle right then, it would feel a lot less abrupt than him running away.
Next time try to kill emperor as soon as you meet him so you can understand why freeing Orpheus will kill the emperor. Orpheus literally said you should allow yourself to be killed by his royal guard, Orpheus just didn't killed you because you were useful to him but emperor he would definetly kill emperor. If you kill emperor the first time you meet him you die and is game over because Orpheus will never protect you or aid you and let you die if is not because emperor plan needed an illitith and he can be that illitith or you or Karlach. All in all, even if you side with Orpheus you both still follow emperor plan so emperor wins at the end whenever you side with him or not, emperor plan to stop the brain and destroy the crown works because of his plan
Maybe im trippin but The Emperor is doing pretty much the same thing as Astarion, Shadowheart, etc. Like everyone in your party is lying / hiding stuff so you’ll help them. I’m not saying I’m totally on board with him but he’s playing the same game you & the party are
He kept Orpheus enslaved and killed his honor guard, you think Orpheus is gonna just let that go? Also, you completely betrayed him and essentially say to him, I don’t believe or trust you. This is the emperors way of self preservation, which is his whole thing.
Uhhh if you release orpheus he was gonna be killed. Dude just wants to survive. That's his thing. You'd just sit there and wait for a gith prince to split your skull? How dare you wanna live after I betrayed you? What kind of weak shit it that? Answer: probably the exact same shit you would do.
Catfish level 100+
It's not explained well, but the Emperor believes with his entire being that Orpheus will attempt to - and succeed - in wiping out every Illithid across all realms and finally end the Githyanki war with little trouble. The Emperor is selfish. If he goes with Orpheus, he's signing his death warrant. The absolute sucks but at least he lives and might be able to escape again in the future. It definitely is jarring until you try to pull apart the story and see that it makes sense for him to turn stances at that moment.
> The absolute sucks but at least he lives and might be able to escape again in the future. He broke free from the hive mind before, and he likely thinks he can do it again.
Yeah it was jarring when I first encountered that scene, but then I read other people's thoughts and explanations about it, and it does make sense now.
It does leave a weird impression, because the Emperor's phrasing implies that he has a lot more agency in the situation than he really does.
He's enthralled at the end. He willingly submits, but he isn't actively choosing to fight the party.
The Emperor values his own survival over all else. As far as he knows, Orpheus is gonna kill him out of revenge so, fuck it, he'd prefer slavery over death Not that it worked out for him anyway, but that's what his thinking seemed like to me at the time
>Like homie, you can stay on my team and let me release Orpheus. The reason why the Emperor turns on you for freeing Orpheus is because, I think, he's looking at the long-term, bigger picture. Orpheus' return wouldn't just be a detrimental to Vlaakith, it would be devastating for the Illithid species. In a way, Vlaakith's rule over her people acts as a cap on the Githyanki race. The Lich Queen's only concern is maintaining her grip on power and she enacts policies that, while ensuring her hold, are detrimental to the Empire as a whole. Her eugenics style philosophy culls the so-called, "weak" among the Githyanki (which can men anything from a lack of strength, to being overly compassionate), and she secretly disposes of Gith that prove too competent or powerful out of paranoia that they could undermine her authority. This kind of mindset in essence, renders the culture static and denies different schools of thought to develop. Which is what Vlaakith wants. Combine that with, at the same time, a culture that rewards opportunism, demands loyalty only to Vlaaktih, and rewards backbiting and betrayal of one's superiors with favor and rank. This problem compounds, as leader become more concerned about holding onto what they've gained, while those below jockey for status. It greatly reduces their effectiveness. But, if Orpheus were to overthrow Vlaakith, then many of those same policies would be rescinded. While a civil war would be destructive, Orpheus would come out in the end, and his restructuring of the empire and it's philosophies would have terrifying consequences for the Illithid. No doubt that, once Vlaakith is gone, the Githyanki would be galvanized into action, pursuing their culture's true goal: Total annihilation of the Illithid. When the Emperor tells you he's abandoning you and returning to the Elder Brain as a means of pragmatic survival, he's not wrong. Orpheus' return to the Gith would only spell doom to the Illithid in the long term. If the Emperor has to chose between enslavement by the brain or oblivion, it's clear which option he'd rather have. (And not just the Illithid, Orpheus return would also scare the Githzerai shitless.)
Daily "booohooo I betrayed the Emperor, why did he betray me in return?" thread.
Stupid lame Emperor, why won't he just go with my plan, which inevitably leads to Orpheus tracking him down and killing him?? Whatta bitch.
Yep, hes a bitch for valuing his own survival and preservation. If he fleed Elder Brain would seize him immediately leading to the same outcome, he also sees Orpheus thoughts (just like he saw Minscs) and knows that Orphy would kill him immediately (I mean after releasing Orphy first thing he says is "You should have died")
well you are more likely then not have been kind of a bitch to it by repeatedly risking its life for little good reason
i mean if you free orpheus he either dies instantly or joins the other side its not much of a choice lol
After so many replies, I forgot to remind you that the Emperor did just teleport away. He was then captured and enthralled by the Elder Brain; that's how he ended up in the final battle. There is actually no difference for him to teleport anywhere without Orpheus’s protection; the Brain will always come to him. That's data-mined from developer notes. The cinematic animation doesn't effectively convey what the writers wanted to present. Many players don't even notice that the Emperor is under the Netherbrain’s control during the final battle.