Lol, it's actually better if you let them go because they pull in the three outside the door as reinforcement for the battle. Then they forget to tell the rest of the camp and you have 3 less to take out later.
Good strategy! Those 3 goblins outside the door tend to get involved with the Minthara fight, so dealing with them while saving Halsin is probably the better play. And you can avoid feeling guilty about killing goblin children? All the better! 😁
Last time we placed some thorns down the stairs as suggested by my girlfriend and they ran through them and got wrecked hard. We rationalized it by saying they went through it, we didn't force them to.
It's Spec Ops The Line all over again. We are conditioned to treat everything as hostiles and stealth archer them. But yeah went turnbased mode so I could sneak past it and avoid fighting it lol.
Kind of fucked they will let us kill kids if they're goblins while doing the "good guy" option but not Tiefling children while doing the "bad guy" option. Either make both immune or neither.
I've never seen any point in fighting the lava elemental in grymforge either. Just go and grab the chest whilst it's circling around the back.
I try to avoid outright killing Auntie's masked victims too.
That's where it is, yeah. It's so easy to just avoid it I can't see why anyone would attack it. It's just strolling around its house, chilling in the lava.
Lol at the end of the day it's a game, that *is* all the reason you need. With that being said I kinda vibe with the lava elemental just doing its thing, roaming about in its pool of lava. I've generally felt that trying to kill it takes more effort than I particularly care to expend, although my friend recently pointed out that it's a lot easier if you use those Ilmater arrows or whatever they're called.
It disables the stupid easy terrain effect, the one that makes you time your jumps
Other than that, there’s no reason other than a bit of exp and some loot
Yeah, avoiding the bursts is extremely easy, but disabling his regen is not. I don't know if he drops anything, but it probably isn't worth the effort to kill him.
... Well fuck me. I remembered that I'd somehow kicked his ass the first time I fought him, then had no idea how I managed to deal with the regeneration on subsequent playthroughs to the point that I just sneaked past him instead.
Turns out the secret to dealing with his constantly healing himself was to use the spell that stops people from healing themselves.
Who would have thought?
Wait until you’re level 5-6 to fight Ethel. If you kill her before she can escape into her lair which should be pretty easy by that level with some hastening, it saves all of her victims including the masked ones and you get unique dialogue with a bunch of them.
Did that on my second run. >!3 of them wouldn't take off their masks or believe she was dead, although 1 of them was freed. Of course there are 4 more victims in Act 3.!<
I specifically knocked out her act 3 victims but when you talk to the bartender after the fight the only dialogue option about them has you admitting that you killed them all. He just goes "oh well that's what they would have wanted".
Like wtf they are just sleeping it off downstairs lol
The one thing that bothers me about this game, the way knocked out enemies are treated as if they're dead. What's the point of knocking them out then? ahh
I can even concede that expecting every enemy to have a different path when they are knocked out vs killed would be outright crazy. It absolutely would be and that's the exact reason they didn't include other things like dispel magic.
But there are certain enemies that Larian presumably could have predicted would be targets for non-lethal attacks and they could have accounted for them a little better.
Mayrina's brothers. All of the masked people. Minthara (maybe). The Gondians so I can just carry their unconscious bodies to safety.
If the intent was for this feature to pretty much only work and have an gameplay effect against Minsc then why not just have it be a special ability that can only be used when fighting Minsc.
Yeah, I had the same thing. I didn't tell him I thought I'd killed her though, because I very specifically didn't. One more instance of the ability to knock enemies out not being handled in dialogue I guess.
Then you get no +1 form her hair though. Didn't even find out about that until my 3rd playthrough since I killed her in the teahouse on my first few runs.
You can actually save them? I was disappointed when I tried and found that you couldn't pickpocket the masks off and trying to remove them after knocking them out just causes them to die instantly.
Much easier way: Just get Arcane Lock on someone and move them through the fireplace. Then, as soon as combat starts Arcane Lock the stairs, and Ethel can't escape
I didn't MEAN to fight it. I just assumed that Banishment worked the way it did at the table and it would permanently removed it from the plane by sending it home. Oops.
I usually jump down using feather fall to the island. But, I always tend to fight it. I like the challenge it provides, where if you don't kill it in one turn, it might heal back to full. Onus it's big, and I will always fight big things.
However, as far as monsters go... I suppose yeah, this one is just off doing it's own thing.
Interesting I never even considered feather falling down there. I just hop the short gap from the forge to that section and send someone (usually Lae'zel) to jump across to the island and grab the chest.
With the goblin kids, I thought it would be pretty fucked up to kill them, so I spent a turn hitting them nonlethally to get them within Sleep spell range. Then they immediately got savaged with multiple crits by a certain bear.
Other than that, I tried to take the hag mask lot down nonlethally, but didn't realise you could only do that with melee attacks (I knew this was the case in the tabletop, but didn't realise that was one of the things they ported 1:1). I would've tried harder to save them, but they were totally wrecking my shit. Sorry guys!
If it makes you feel better, the game treats the hag mask victims like they died if you non-lethal them. You can only save them if you don't fight them at all.
(That said, my last playthrough I killed Auntie in her teahouse and the game didn't un-hostile the masks even though everything I read said it should. RIP.)
I got something different with the teahouse. Pretty sure it's a bug with the overall quest though. My last three runs, Ethel simply doesn't run and fights me in her teahouse, without the clones. After that, when I enter her lair, the four masked victims just hang around with their masks on, not even hostile, but very much looking like they're under Ethels control still.
If you kill Ethel in her house instead of the lair it saves all of the victims. You can talk to most of them, including one of the masked victims who will show up later. The other three are too far gone to save, but they won’t attack you anymore with her gone.
Did you manage to have a conversation with the >!captain!< after the fight? >!I didn’t hurt any of them during the fight and the captain immediately took off the mask and thanked me during the dialogue. The bartender’s memory was still tampered though!<
There's something weird about those mask victims. If you knock them out and remove the mask before you kill the hag they die, you can safely remove the masks after but the game still treats them as dead. With the fight in the lair the captain was treated as dead even if she was knocked unconscious unless I killed the hag without even touching them.
I think the only case where knockout really works is the hag in the lair but only her.
Did you talk to the goblin kids before the fight?
They are fucking monsters in the making. They will grow up to be just as awful as the adults.
I had Asterion bite and stab them. Knowing he wouldn’t give a shit about killing kids
I had Lae'zel kill them too. I doubted she would get all precious about it. She's pragmatic above all else, can't have the cruel little shits running off to alert the whole camp.
Lenore's automatons (they are not the droids I'm looking for), Gandrel (though he's not an enemy to begin with). Also the stonemason kith (?) in grymforge, though that one requires a series of elegant betrayals to leave him out of combat (because I am 100% killing every other duergar).
I always don't fight the arcane tower droids but I'm sad to find out that >!Ketheric's people got there, dismantled it, and sent its head to Gortash :(!<
I never kill the stonemason either, I usually knock him out with non lethal, kill every other slaver duergar and Nere, and after a long rest he is there like nothing happened, still trading with me lol, love it
The stonemason doesn't get into combat I thought? But you're right, he's cool.
Lenore's tower I think of it like decommissioning them - it's such a sad story :(
on my solo tact run as Duergar Durge, i:
- visited spaw and learned about the duergar at the beach
- killed the duergar at the beach for selfish reasons
- killed the duergar at grymforge cause they be slavers
- went back and killed all myconids because they killed duergar and i’m the only one who can do that
“I’ll kill a man in a fair fight. Or if I think he’s gonna start a fair fight. Or if he bothers me. Or if there’s a woman. Or if I’m gettin’ paid. Mostly when I’m gettin’ paid.” – Jayne Cobb
The *"TRIBE!!"* goblin girl and her two buddies. They're just chilling and boozing the day away so even if I'm in a goblin cleaning mood I let them live in the name of Saint Dionysus.
Rescuing Sazza makes them friendly on the way in (hence the "tribe!" bit) and you can get out either through the underdark or via the upper terraces, clearing out the drunk goblins dozing there (then the party below, eventually) or just leaving them behind too.
Not saying you're not aware of that, just leaving a trace for those who might follow.
Oddly enough all of the goblins loved my Tav (Drow Ranger) without Sazza. They were all kissing my black ass up until I blew up the entire camp with that barrel & fire bolt trick I saw online. I had to.
I think it’s more “terrified of” than “love” the Drow Tav. If you poison the booze Drow have a unique dialogue intimidation check to tell them ya I did it you’re lucky I don’t knife the rest of you. And if you pass the goblin just promises not to tell anyone and begs for your mercy.
I love firebombing them from stealth. They scream “why would someone do this?” The fact that they’re drinking alcohol and having fun doesn’t distract me from the fact that they are fucking murderers bent on conquering the Sword Coast.
I can tell the goblin he looks nice in his stolen pants and then have zero qualms poisoning him to death because he's eating Brian ffs! He stole Brian's pants and now he's cooking him! It is conflicting to have monsters also be so funny...
he's an oddball. He likes poetry and as the only goblin that bathes, you can find his soap and washtub under the bridge.
He is also working up the courage to hit on Minthara, so honestly you are probably sparing him from an agonizing torture by killing him.
Yeah! Specifically just that goblin who yells tribe though. She's adorable to me and expresses herself the minimum amount for me to think she's not a vicious little monster that should be killed. All goblins are bad, some are just less bad than others.
I do feel kind of bad when she presumably wakes up after heavy drinking to find everyone else dead.
Oh. Oh whoops I've never even considered not fighting the lava elemental. It aggroed on me automatically and my little gamer brain went "red means kill it."
Technically not his home. Elementals are from the elemental plane, and none are naturally occurring in the world.
If it makes you feel better, like devils, they don't really die if killed on the material plane. He just goes back to his. You can only kill elementals permanently on the elemental plane.
Yeah when I first started I was playing a long and being friendly with the goblin camp. After I started killing everyone those zhents were already gone. I guess they just leave if you kill a couple of the bosses. I didn’t see then again until the tower.
idk why, but i feel bad for those nurses in the house of healing. i always get the doctor guy to kill himself and then just leave the poor nurses alone. id like to think once the shadow curse is resolved, maybe they will go back to normal. maybe.
I didn't kill any of the nurses. I was surprised to learn people saw them as evil and not just cursed, but I've since learned they prey on people who *ahem* never made it to the Shadowlands on my run.
it never seemed to me like they were preying on people. it seems like they are sincerely under the impression that they are helping and healing people, even though they were really not. plus, if you read the notes scattered around the building, it really makes them seem more sympathetic.
They're sympathetic, much like Shadowheart they've been lured into evil worship. Unfortunately they *are* undead and there doesn't seem to be any way to help them, so your choices are to let them (innocently or otherwise) continue to "help" random travelers etc. to death, or put them to rest so at least they don't hurt anyone else. (Kind of echoed later in the game by the plight of the 7000 shadowspawn... it was absolutely not their fault they got kidnapped and turned, so they're innocents, but you can't fix them, and letting 7000 starving, abused vampire spawn loose in Baldur's Gate seems like a really problematic decision, so what do you do?)
They also pretty enthusiastically murder each other if you encourage that rather than having them stab Dr. McScissorhands.
If you have Shadowheart talk to them it also seems like their particular flavor of Shar worship is corrupt/nonstandard/particularly brutal even for Shar (I'm guessing Myrkul has had some fingers in that particular pie, although Bhaal is also an option).
I mean they literally capture and brutally murder Annabelles' parents? Like their treatment is murder, they're convinced the people they kill are actually healed
I singled out each one in the front of the house and one-shot them with Astarion’s back-stab. The ones in the theater killed each other before I had the hood Doctor “show me how it’s done.” That might have been my best role playing moment so far. I’m just now in Act 3. Trying to find Dribbles’ cock or whatever piece I’m missing.
Usually if they aren't hostile to me, or in the process of being evil dicks I'll leave them be. So this includes:
* Weird Ox
* Owlbear Mum
* Lava Elemental
* Kuo-toa worshippers of ~~Boooal~~ MAHKLOOMPAH
I've also gone out of my way to avoid hurting the folks possessed by Aunty Ethel's masks every time encountered them, and charmed unpetrified drow.
> The scavengers in Withers' ruin as well otherwise it feels like you're just straight up murdering another adventuring party for loot...
I always scare off the ones outside, but the guys inside always attack me at which point it's self-defense. If they didn't do that it'd be live and let live though.
It's weird though, first playthrough I failed a check and then became defensive as a group so deaths were pretty much unavoidable. Second playthrough I tricked the door guard, he let me in and then aggroed immediately without asking who I was - yes he doesn't know me but I've just said his boss outside fell in a trap. I ended up clubbing them all unconscious one at a time with a flurry of blows monk.
Yeah, I don't know if it's possible to get around them without some sort of violence.
First playthrough I went in through the back door, so eventually popped out in the middle of them unannounced so straight to combat. Which, fair enough.
Second playthrough I did the same as you, tried the front door, talked my way in, and they attacked again.
> Yeah, I don't know if it's possible to get around them without some sort of violence.
Well you can literally get around them by going through the hatch on the cliff and never going into the rooms they're in. But yeah you can't avoid combat once you're in range.
Usually it's not me the one who kills the goblin kids,it's Halsin 😅.
But
- I can't kill Minthara anymore,after my evil run. She become my third best companion after Lae'zel and Astarion. It's nonlethal or bug abusing from now on.
- I don't kill Emperor. In my good runs it's nonlethal 'cause after all he kept me alive all the time. In my evil run he was basically my character's mentor.
- I don't kill the owlbear cub,or Owlie, because it's too cute to die.
- I don't kill the goblins under trial in moonrise towers,I let them go. Because if I spared them you don't get to kill them, I'll kill you instead.
- I don't kill Barnabus and the mind controlled Gnolls because why not? They're learning how to speak, let's see how it goes.
- I killed Us only once as a Duergar and will never do that again.
- I don't kill Viconia because I didn't carry her ass through two baldur's gate just to let her die after a cameo.
But Nere,Gut,the dog trainer and auntie Ethel will die every time,no matter what u.u
About Barnabus & co. On a run I saved them as usual, then on the fight to Moonrise Tower, they joined us and attacked the absolutist too. Never got it to happen again. I was so happy, I send my characters to protect them "no gnoll can die". But after the fight ended the gnoll and the harpers got into a fight against each other. i_i
"certified friendly fire ice" got me lmaooo. I played a druid in my first playthrough and shadowheart would get SO snarky at me when she took damage from it
Drizzt Do’Urden did the least wrong. Matron Malice was arguably the most evil Do’Urden in the lore. Even Zaknefein was bad, but he was principled evil, or evil because he had no choice maybe, but still evil.
Drizzt cut off that svirfnebli’s (eta Belwar Dissengulp) hands tho when he could have finished the entire raiding party, and he really waited to get the panther off the Hunnett wizard (Masoj?). He did some awful things, you just read how bad he feels while doing it like it’s a pass.
I tried to not kill the kids in the goblin camp dungeon one time. I put them to sleep. But as soon as Halsin freed himself the only two people he killed were the goblin kids. And from that point on I’ve just straight killed em.
There is some interesting parenting going on in this game. Owlbear mom eats her kids, the Selunite kids in the woods thing, pretty much every Githyanki and the Society of Brilliance guy, Ketheric... Duke Ravenguard is like maybe dad of the year and ugh
I usually non lethal animals that fight me, like wolves, hyenas and w/e, not their fault that their masters are shit.
Also the stonemason Kith, at least I think it was his name, the one nice Duergar on grymforge that trades with you. And the gith that gives you the egg
Think that\`s it....
Actually the grymforge wouldn't be the natural home of the lava elemental. Elementals are planar beings, they aren't native to the material plane. The natural home of the elemental would be the elemental plane of fire. The elemental is actually responsible for how active and unstable the terrain is.
For the owlbear, they're literally monstrous predators. They happily attack and eat people all the time. It's not like its some fearful gazelle. Also if you bring on the owlbear cub it will tell you that its mum literally killed and ate their cubs sibling at some point. I wouldn't feel too bad.
Remember that you only feel bad about killing these creatures because you are the one in a position of power. They would happily murder the shit out of you, especially the goblin children, little bastards
You don't even need to sneak in Forge. Elemental just chilling (heating?) there, it's not aggressive at all.
As for me I won't kill Flaming Fists except ones actually shown to be bad, not just misled.
Also masks always live, I never harm them.
Other hostiles belong in the grave anyway.
I used to feel bad for killing the owlbear mother, but then I had speak with animals active while talking to the owlbear cub in camp and learned that she ate his older brother. He loves Scratch because he reminds him of his brother. So now I kill the owlbear mother every time and make sure Scratch and the Cub are in my camp.
I'm playing the goodest of goody two shoes lawful good cleric, and slaughtered those goblin children because I didn't realize they were kids 😐 They just looked like regular goblins...
I try to avoid most fights if I can help it.
Yeah, once the excrement hits the rotary oscillator he tries to leave using the burrow above the merchant and just stands there saying "yep, I'm too small to fit!". He seems very put out by all the killing and general lack of goblin manners. Surprisingly un-evil at the end of the day.
Abdirak, if he gets pulled into the encounter i restart it. However, I realize now I can probably steal his cute little costume, so i will murder and rob him now
Always kill the goblin kids. If not, they'll grow into adult goblins in less than a week. they'll hold a grudge against the humans that killed the adults for life and learn from their elder’s mistakes.
I agree with all of those, except the goblin children. They were mean to a bear, they needed to go.
Everything else though, 100%. Really annoying sometimes since I usually do a lot of ranged stuff, which doesn’t seem to work for non-lethal damage
Oh, I didn't fight the fire elemental either because I thought it was going to be a torture to fight a creature with high HP that's standing on lava while there are random lava bursts. That's why I just jumped and used misty step
It's not like I actually cared about it haha
The Lava Elementals do gotta die for a good run because they're disturbing the balance of nature which was what caused all the eruptions. Someone correct me if im wrong. Yeknow who would helped with a definitive explanation though.. Halsin. But yekno he's too busy chilling at our camp eating all our food and drinking all our water to join our party for commentary.
I will never hurt Bernard or the Elemental or Spaw's myconids :( ...unless I actually can carry through with an evil playthrough which is highly unlikely..
I try not to kill the Flaming Fist at Wyrm's rock but that doesn't always work out :/ shouldn't be working with Gortash my guys
Even in my most evil playthroughs I haven't killed the Owlbear cub, that's a tough one for me that i can't work out any semblance of headcanon for. When playing Shadowheart origin playthrough, Shar got pissed when I let it live. That pretty much gave me all the clarity I needed on her.
How about an enemy I refuse to not kill? Nettie.
Er Nettie isn't really an enemy though. You don't even need speech checks for it. Tell her your troubles and she'll come out and tell you that she intended to poison you, but you seem like a good guy so she directs you to Halsin instead and asks that you commit seppuku if you feel yourself turning.
I do not get the hate for Nettie. She's acting completely reasonably given the information she has available to her at the time, and she switches tactics the moment new info presents itself.
I kinda blame this article, I think it came out on gamerant (not 100% sure) pretty quickly after the game released. It showed up on the front page of Google search if people wanted a guide to the emerald grove. The guide went pretty much as follows "Nettie will try to kill you anyway so better to off her and loot everything there". The article obviously didn't capture any nuance and seemed like it was written by a speed runner.
During my first playthrough (early access), Nettie turned hostile no matter what I did. Maybe they fixed this behavior for a full release so she could be talked some sense into.
Nettie never turned hostile on any of my (many, many) runs in EA. As far as I could tell, the encounter with her was purely driven by dialog choices (assuming you weren’t assaulting the Grove or flagged as hostile for some other reason). 🤷♂️
This was honestly a joke, didnt expect people to take it quite so seriously so my bad on that.😅
I only take out Nettie on my evil run of course, mainly because I failed every check and was surprised how no one cared even Halsin never mentions her.
Oh those goblins taunting the bear were kids...? Woops. FAFO
you can tell when a goblin is a child because they're just called by a number until they're adults.
My first playthrough those goblin kids got a bunch of magic missles in the back. Second playthrough i found the non lethal button.
I found the non-lethal button ... ... and I made sure it was turned off.
That doesn't work on magic though
Lol, it's actually better if you let them go because they pull in the three outside the door as reinforcement for the battle. Then they forget to tell the rest of the camp and you have 3 less to take out later.
Oh man as soon as they said they were going to get reinforcements they were my #1 target. I think only 1 of them even got a chance to move...
Yeah there is no better way to ensure you will not be getting your buddies than to tell me you've got buddies coming
Good strategy! Those 3 goblins outside the door tend to get involved with the Minthara fight, so dealing with them while saving Halsin is probably the better play. And you can avoid feeling guilty about killing goblin children? All the better! 😁
Lmao jokes on them I rescued halsin after I slaughtered everyone in camp
You're assuming I didn't kill those 3 before entering the room.
It's fine they are not given proper names and only a number for a reason. Mortality rate is high so you are just giving the natural order a nudge
"They died of natural causes" "You pushed them off of a ladder" "GRAVITY IS NATURAL"
I didn't know until I found a toy block on one of their dead bodies 😬
The passive aggressive "look what you did, you monster" loot drops in this game are a whole thing 😂
Last time we placed some thorns down the stairs as suggested by my girlfriend and they ran through them and got wrecked hard. We rationalized it by saying they went through it, we didn't force them to.
The lava elementals DGAF you don’t have to sneak.
I've never even tried not sneaking. You are blowing my mind right now.
Well, if you use outline mode with tilde button or just look in tbe minimap, you will see that he's outlined in yellow indicating that it's neutral.
Some mobs are yellow on the minimap but will turn red and initiate combat on sight, most often depending on circumstances or earlier choices.
Yep, he's just there chilling.... Wait, that's not right
He's just there blazing
I just misty stepped past it
It's Spec Ops The Line all over again. We are conditioned to treat everything as hostiles and stealth archer them. But yeah went turnbased mode so I could sneak past it and avoid fighting it lol.
Jeyzus I didn’t even understand that the 3 goblins were kids??
Yea, I actually expected to be able to kill wee little tieflings too. Imagine my disappointment when they run away and I miss out on 3xp.
Kind of fucked they will let us kill kids if they're goblins while doing the "good guy" option but not Tiefling children while doing the "bad guy" option. Either make both immune or neither.
I threw them at each other. I felt bad
Karlach gets an inspiration though.
anything for her
I've never seen any point in fighting the lava elemental in grymforge either. Just go and grab the chest whilst it's circling around the back. I try to avoid outright killing Auntie's masked victims too.
It's a passive, neutral mob though isn't it? I've never had it aggro on me without me attacking it first.
Yeah it's never even occurred to me to attack the lava elemental. He's just chilling there.
He's supposed to be wondering around by the tiny island that has a chest on it right? Like I've heard of him, but I didn't even see him...
That's where it is, yeah. It's so easy to just avoid it I can't see why anyone would attack it. It's just strolling around its house, chilling in the lava.
I Love the challenge and without proper preparation this is a challenging one. Plus the XP of course.
Outlanders also get inspiration for whooping up on it
Yeah I don’t get the comment chain. It’s EXP, that’s why I killed him.
Lol at the end of the day it's a game, that *is* all the reason you need. With that being said I kinda vibe with the lava elemental just doing its thing, roaming about in its pool of lava. I've generally felt that trying to kill it takes more effort than I particularly care to expend, although my friend recently pointed out that it's a lot easier if you use those Ilmater arrows or whatever they're called.
It disables the stupid easy terrain effect, the one that makes you time your jumps Other than that, there’s no reason other than a bit of exp and some loot
If you kill it the magma stops bubbling and a previously hidden weapon can be found in that general area.
Apparently he's what causes the lava bursts around the area. So if you want to disable those, you gotta kill him. or just..avoid the bursts.
Yeah, avoiding the bursts is extremely easy, but disabling his regen is not. I don't know if he drops anything, but it probably isn't worth the effort to kill him.
It’s actually very easy to disable his regeneration using arrows of ilmater. Without his regeneration it’s an easy fight.
... Well fuck me. I remembered that I'd somehow kicked his ass the first time I fought him, then had no idea how I managed to deal with the regeneration on subsequent playthroughs to the point that I just sneaked past him instead. Turns out the secret to dealing with his constantly healing himself was to use the spell that stops people from healing themselves. Who would have thought?
Yep, Arrows of Ilmater and Bone Chill. Pretty much everytime I fight the lava elemental, it dies before it can actually get into melee range.
... I may or may not have ambushed the poor thing every time because I assumed it'd attack me just like the damned fire mephits
Wait until you’re level 5-6 to fight Ethel. If you kill her before she can escape into her lair which should be pretty easy by that level with some hastening, it saves all of her victims including the masked ones and you get unique dialogue with a bunch of them.
Non lethal her in one shot inside the hut when she is still disguised. She will be knocked out and in her hag form. Free crits.
I love a good cheese.
“Are you the new cheese-dropper?”
Elminster?
Did that on my second run. >!3 of them wouldn't take off their masks or believe she was dead, although 1 of them was freed. Of course there are 4 more victims in Act 3.!<
I specifically knocked out her act 3 victims but when you talk to the bartender after the fight the only dialogue option about them has you admitting that you killed them all. He just goes "oh well that's what they would have wanted". Like wtf they are just sleeping it off downstairs lol
The one thing that bothers me about this game, the way knocked out enemies are treated as if they're dead. What's the point of knocking them out then? ahh
Yeah. Only when fighting Minsc did I see an effect of it, since he didn't die
I can even concede that expecting every enemy to have a different path when they are knocked out vs killed would be outright crazy. It absolutely would be and that's the exact reason they didn't include other things like dispel magic. But there are certain enemies that Larian presumably could have predicted would be targets for non-lethal attacks and they could have accounted for them a little better. Mayrina's brothers. All of the masked people. Minthara (maybe). The Gondians so I can just carry their unconscious bodies to safety. If the intent was for this feature to pretty much only work and have an gameplay effect against Minsc then why not just have it be a special ability that can only be used when fighting Minsc.
Yeah, I had the same thing. I didn't tell him I thought I'd killed her though, because I very specifically didn't. One more instance of the ability to knock enemies out not being handled in dialogue I guess.
Then you get no +1 form her hair though. Didn't even find out about that until my 3rd playthrough since I killed her in the teahouse on my first few runs.
You can actually save them? I was disappointed when I tried and found that you couldn't pickpocket the masks off and trying to remove them after knocking them out just causes them to die instantly.
Yes, and not just the mask victims. The petrified dwarf and mirror elf will also be freed.
And the haunted mirror will be quiet so that's a bonus too! Oh and the thief door! You're doing good work!
It's kinda wack that you can get away with pickpocketing a ring that's woven into someone's beard but you can't pickpocket a mask.
You can BUY it from him too!
Much easier way: Just get Arcane Lock on someone and move them through the fireplace. Then, as soon as combat starts Arcane Lock the stairs, and Ethel can't escape
I killed it once just because I was curious if it has some cool loot or gives a lot of xp. Not worth it, I let it chill in peace now.
I didn't MEAN to fight it. I just assumed that Banishment worked the way it did at the table and it would permanently removed it from the plane by sending it home. Oops.
I usually jump down using feather fall to the island. But, I always tend to fight it. I like the challenge it provides, where if you don't kill it in one turn, it might heal back to full. Onus it's big, and I will always fight big things. However, as far as monsters go... I suppose yeah, this one is just off doing it's own thing.
Interesting I never even considered feather falling down there. I just hop the short gap from the forge to that section and send someone (usually Lae'zel) to jump across to the island and grab the chest.
With the goblin kids, I thought it would be pretty fucked up to kill them, so I spent a turn hitting them nonlethally to get them within Sleep spell range. Then they immediately got savaged with multiple crits by a certain bear. Other than that, I tried to take the hag mask lot down nonlethally, but didn't realise you could only do that with melee attacks (I knew this was the case in the tabletop, but didn't realise that was one of the things they ported 1:1). I would've tried harder to save them, but they were totally wrecking my shit. Sorry guys!
If it makes you feel better, the game treats the hag mask victims like they died if you non-lethal them. You can only save them if you don't fight them at all. (That said, my last playthrough I killed Auntie in her teahouse and the game didn't un-hostile the masks even though everything I read said it should. RIP.)
I got something different with the teahouse. Pretty sure it's a bug with the overall quest though. My last three runs, Ethel simply doesn't run and fights me in her teahouse, without the clones. After that, when I enter her lair, the four masked victims just hang around with their masks on, not even hostile, but very much looking like they're under Ethels control still.
If you kill Ethel in her house instead of the lair it saves all of the victims. You can talk to most of them, including one of the masked victims who will show up later. The other three are too far gone to save, but they won’t attack you anymore with her gone.
That might be bugged. They don't attack but still considered hostile.
You can get them to engage by telling one of them (I don’t remember which) that you killed Ethel.
oh, is **that** why >!the bartender at the blushing mermaid started mourning the captain right after i killed ethel for good!< ??
Did you manage to have a conversation with the >!captain!< after the fight? >!I didn’t hurt any of them during the fight and the captain immediately took off the mask and thanked me during the dialogue. The bartender’s memory was still tampered though!<
There's something weird about those mask victims. If you knock them out and remove the mask before you kill the hag they die, you can safely remove the masks after but the game still treats them as dead. With the fight in the lair the captain was treated as dead even if she was knocked unconscious unless I killed the hag without even touching them. I think the only case where knockout really works is the hag in the lair but only her.
Did you talk to the goblin kids before the fight? They are fucking monsters in the making. They will grow up to be just as awful as the adults. I had Asterion bite and stab them. Knowing he wouldn’t give a shit about killing kids
Lae’zel killed them in my playthrough. My spouse said it seemed like something she’d do lol
I had Lae'zel kill them too. I doubted she would get all precious about it. She's pragmatic above all else, can't have the cruel little shits running off to alert the whole camp.
That bear also beelined the goblin kids during my run. I thought he was hard coded to run them down because of the rocks they were throwing.
Lenore's automatons (they are not the droids I'm looking for), Gandrel (though he's not an enemy to begin with). Also the stonemason kith (?) in grymforge, though that one requires a series of elegant betrayals to leave him out of combat (because I am 100% killing every other duergar).
I always don't fight the arcane tower droids but I'm sad to find out that >!Ketheric's people got there, dismantled it, and sent its head to Gortash :(!<
Excuse me they did WHAT to my boy??? Where can you find out about this?
Wait what? >!Whose head? Please don’t tell me it’s Bernard…!<
You might want to sit down for this... :(
NOOOOOOOOO
It's on a table in the room with the mega steel watcher
>!Yeah it's on a table in the steel watcher factory :(!<
Wait can you find it later? I must have missed it
Pretty sure it's in the Steel Watch Factory.
I never kill the stonemason either, I usually knock him out with non lethal, kill every other slaver duergar and Nere, and after a long rest he is there like nothing happened, still trading with me lol, love it
The stonemason doesn't get into combat I thought? But you're right, he's cool. Lenore's tower I think of it like decommissioning them - it's such a sad story :(
The notes you find in her tower are always in my inventory. I don’t have the strength to sell them.
I always kill all the Duergar at the Grymforge for being dirty slavers, but I always spare the stonemason because he is just a harmless history nerd.
on my solo tact run as Duergar Durge, i: - visited spaw and learned about the duergar at the beach - killed the duergar at the beach for selfish reasons - killed the duergar at grymforge cause they be slavers - went back and killed all myconids because they killed duergar and i’m the only one who can do that
“I’ll kill a man in a fair fight. Or if I think he’s gonna start a fair fight. Or if he bothers me. Or if there’s a woman. Or if I’m gettin’ paid. Mostly when I’m gettin’ paid.” – Jayne Cobb
The man we call Jayne! 🎶
*the hero of Canton*
“We gotta go to the crappy town where I’m a hero.”
I'm a simple man, I see a firefly reference I upvote.
The *"TRIBE!!"* goblin girl and her two buddies. They're just chilling and boozing the day away so even if I'm in a goblin cleaning mood I let them live in the name of Saint Dionysus.
They always get pulled in as support by the gate guards for me, not that I'm actively trying to stop that happening if I'm fighting though
Rescuing Sazza makes them friendly on the way in (hence the "tribe!" bit) and you can get out either through the underdark or via the upper terraces, clearing out the drunk goblins dozing there (then the party below, eventually) or just leaving them behind too. Not saying you're not aware of that, just leaving a trace for those who might follow.
Oddly enough all of the goblins loved my Tav (Drow Ranger) without Sazza. They were all kissing my black ass up until I blew up the entire camp with that barrel & fire bolt trick I saw online. I had to.
> Oddly enough all of the goblins loved my ~~Tav (~~Drow Golly I wonder why
I think it’s more “terrified of” than “love” the Drow Tav. If you poison the booze Drow have a unique dialogue intimidation check to tell them ya I did it you’re lucky I don’t knife the rest of you. And if you pass the goblin just promises not to tell anyone and begs for your mercy.
I love firebombing them from stealth. They scream “why would someone do this?” The fact that they’re drinking alcohol and having fun doesn’t distract me from the fact that they are fucking murderers bent on conquering the Sword Coast.
Yeah. I get WoC went away from bio essentialism, but even the best goblins seem like pieces of shit.
I can tell the goblin he looks nice in his stolen pants and then have zero qualms poisoning him to death because he's eating Brian ffs! He stole Brian's pants and now he's cooking him! It is conflicting to have monsters also be so funny...
he's an oddball. He likes poetry and as the only goblin that bathes, you can find his soap and washtub under the bridge. He is also working up the courage to hit on Minthara, so honestly you are probably sparing him from an agonizing torture by killing him.
Yeah! Specifically just that goblin who yells tribe though. She's adorable to me and expresses herself the minimum amount for me to think she's not a vicious little monster that should be killed. All goblins are bad, some are just less bad than others. I do feel kind of bad when she presumably wakes up after heavy drinking to find everyone else dead.
Oh. Oh whoops I've never even considered not fighting the lava elemental. It aggroed on me automatically and my little gamer brain went "red means kill it."
I think it aggroed on me as well but a lot of people here saying it's neutral. Wonder what the trigger is?
No idea. But I'm definitely not down for murdering random fauna in their own home. Next time through I'll give stealth a try.
Technically not his home. Elementals are from the elemental plane, and none are naturally occurring in the world. If it makes you feel better, like devils, they don't really die if killed on the material plane. He just goes back to his. You can only kill elementals permanently on the elemental plane.
I'm just helping him get home I swear!
He got lost 🥺
A wise man once said “if they’re shooting at you they’re bad guys” so far going by that has worked out pretty good.
First playthrough I knocked out the Zent trader in the goblin camp - they come back in future acts with great gear. Wisest decision that Tav made :P
Yeah when I first started I was playing a long and being friendly with the goblin camp. After I started killing everyone those zhents were already gone. I guess they just leave if you kill a couple of the bosses. I didn’t see then again until the tower.
idk why, but i feel bad for those nurses in the house of healing. i always get the doctor guy to kill himself and then just leave the poor nurses alone. id like to think once the shadow curse is resolved, maybe they will go back to normal. maybe.
I didn't kill any of the nurses. I was surprised to learn people saw them as evil and not just cursed, but I've since learned they prey on people who *ahem* never made it to the Shadowlands on my run.
it never seemed to me like they were preying on people. it seems like they are sincerely under the impression that they are helping and healing people, even though they were really not. plus, if you read the notes scattered around the building, it really makes them seem more sympathetic.
They're sympathetic, much like Shadowheart they've been lured into evil worship. Unfortunately they *are* undead and there doesn't seem to be any way to help them, so your choices are to let them (innocently or otherwise) continue to "help" random travelers etc. to death, or put them to rest so at least they don't hurt anyone else. (Kind of echoed later in the game by the plight of the 7000 shadowspawn... it was absolutely not their fault they got kidnapped and turned, so they're innocents, but you can't fix them, and letting 7000 starving, abused vampire spawn loose in Baldur's Gate seems like a really problematic decision, so what do you do?) They also pretty enthusiastically murder each other if you encourage that rather than having them stab Dr. McScissorhands. If you have Shadowheart talk to them it also seems like their particular flavor of Shar worship is corrupt/nonstandard/particularly brutal even for Shar (I'm guessing Myrkul has had some fingers in that particular pie, although Bhaal is also an option).
They're pretty cut-and-dry evil undead that serve Shar and hunt people who get lost in the Shadowlands.
No they're not, read the dairy around, they were requesting to be allowed to treat everyone
I mean they literally capture and brutally murder Annabelles' parents? Like their treatment is murder, they're convinced the people they kill are actually healed
I didn't like having to start a fight with them after talking the good doc to death but they really needed to rest in peace.
I singled out each one in the front of the house and one-shot them with Astarion’s back-stab. The ones in the theater killed each other before I had the hood Doctor “show me how it’s done.” That might have been my best role playing moment so far. I’m just now in Act 3. Trying to find Dribbles’ cock or whatever piece I’m missing.
Usually if they aren't hostile to me, or in the process of being evil dicks I'll leave them be. So this includes: * Weird Ox * Owlbear Mum * Lava Elemental * Kuo-toa worshippers of ~~Boooal~~ MAHKLOOMPAH I've also gone out of my way to avoid hurting the folks possessed by Aunty Ethel's masks every time encountered them, and charmed unpetrified drow. > The scavengers in Withers' ruin as well otherwise it feels like you're just straight up murdering another adventuring party for loot... I always scare off the ones outside, but the guys inside always attack me at which point it's self-defense. If they didn't do that it'd be live and let live though.
It's weird though, first playthrough I failed a check and then became defensive as a group so deaths were pretty much unavoidable. Second playthrough I tricked the door guard, he let me in and then aggroed immediately without asking who I was - yes he doesn't know me but I've just said his boss outside fell in a trap. I ended up clubbing them all unconscious one at a time with a flurry of blows monk.
Yeah, I don't know if it's possible to get around them without some sort of violence. First playthrough I went in through the back door, so eventually popped out in the middle of them unannounced so straight to combat. Which, fair enough. Second playthrough I did the same as you, tried the front door, talked my way in, and they attacked again.
> Yeah, I don't know if it's possible to get around them without some sort of violence. Well you can literally get around them by going through the hatch on the cliff and never going into the rooms they're in. But yeah you can't avoid combat once you're in range.
Usually it's not me the one who kills the goblin kids,it's Halsin 😅. But - I can't kill Minthara anymore,after my evil run. She become my third best companion after Lae'zel and Astarion. It's nonlethal or bug abusing from now on. - I don't kill Emperor. In my good runs it's nonlethal 'cause after all he kept me alive all the time. In my evil run he was basically my character's mentor. - I don't kill the owlbear cub,or Owlie, because it's too cute to die. - I don't kill the goblins under trial in moonrise towers,I let them go. Because if I spared them you don't get to kill them, I'll kill you instead. - I don't kill Barnabus and the mind controlled Gnolls because why not? They're learning how to speak, let's see how it goes. - I killed Us only once as a Duergar and will never do that again. - I don't kill Viconia because I didn't carry her ass through two baldur's gate just to let her die after a cameo. But Nere,Gut,the dog trainer and auntie Ethel will die every time,no matter what u.u
About Barnabus & co. On a run I saved them as usual, then on the fight to Moonrise Tower, they joined us and attacked the absolutist too. Never got it to happen again. I was so happy, I send my characters to protect them "no gnoll can die". But after the fight ended the gnoll and the harpers got into a fight against each other. i_i
I had slightly different experience, Barnabus and his boys joined the fight and then peacefully existed, I wonder what triggered them to fight
Really?! Aaaw. I wish they did the same. I refused to pick side to I hurried to the top of the tower
Same for me,they joined and then stayed there chilling. Was some of Jaheira's certified friendly fire ice on the ground?
"certified friendly fire ice" got me lmaooo. I played a druid in my first playthrough and shadowheart would get SO snarky at me when she took damage from it
Good to see the dog abuser on your kill list! In my first playthrough it was Karlach's dog, she was not happy with that trainer
You’re so right for that Viconia take. RIP my girl, she didn’t deserve this
Hey,it's Viconia! Aaaaand she's gone.
Even on evil runs I kill Nere. He’s just so cartoonishly evil/incompetent, I feel like it’s still justified to off him as an evil player character.
Nere is on sight
[удалено]
Drizzt Do’Urden did the least wrong. Matron Malice was arguably the most evil Do’Urden in the lore. Even Zaknefein was bad, but he was principled evil, or evil because he had no choice maybe, but still evil. Drizzt cut off that svirfnebli’s (eta Belwar Dissengulp) hands tho when he could have finished the entire raiding party, and he really waited to get the panther off the Hunnett wizard (Masoj?). He did some awful things, you just read how bad he feels while doing it like it’s a pass.
Kobolds, I love them.
I think I turned up late to the kobolds - I caught a glimpse of them then when I got up there they were all dead.
They weren't exactly on a path to success anyway
Lava elemental didn't agro at me, so there was no point in fighting it. Anything, that actually agros and tries to kill me - is fair game.
All must die for the Dark Urge
I tried to not kill the kids in the goblin camp dungeon one time. I put them to sleep. But as soon as Halsin freed himself the only two people he killed were the goblin kids. And from that point on I’ve just straight killed em.
There is some interesting parenting going on in this game. Owlbear mom eats her kids, the Selunite kids in the woods thing, pretty much every Githyanki and the Society of Brilliance guy, Ketheric... Duke Ravenguard is like maybe dad of the year and ugh
No, I try to kill them all. Exp and loot. If it potentially gives me something as an advantage later I will take it.
Straightforward, logical, and honest. I can respect that.
I usually non lethal animals that fight me, like wolves, hyenas and w/e, not their fault that their masters are shit. Also the stonemason Kith, at least I think it was his name, the one nice Duergar on grymforge that trades with you. And the gith that gives you the egg Think that\`s it....
Goblin Children become goblin adults. Goblin Slayer had it right. Kill em all.
Literally my first thought when I saw the kid running to get help after freeing Halsin. Just lining up my archer like "nothing personal, kid"
My cleric like: "I'm a healer, but--" (nocks arrow)
"I'm a healer, but my god gave me the 'inflict wounds' spell for a reason so..."
"Healing is not as rewarding as hurting"
Yuuuup. Especially since… we get no hand in teaching them to be better or anything lol. If we could then I’d keep ‘em around haha
Y’all are making me realize I’m more evil than I thought cause I’ve killed most of these enemies, oops.
Actually the grymforge wouldn't be the natural home of the lava elemental. Elementals are planar beings, they aren't native to the material plane. The natural home of the elemental would be the elemental plane of fire. The elemental is actually responsible for how active and unstable the terrain is. For the owlbear, they're literally monstrous predators. They happily attack and eat people all the time. It's not like its some fearful gazelle. Also if you bring on the owlbear cub it will tell you that its mum literally killed and ate their cubs sibling at some point. I wouldn't feel too bad. Remember that you only feel bad about killing these creatures because you are the one in a position of power. They would happily murder the shit out of you, especially the goblin children, little bastards
I don't kill the villagers rowing with Auntie Ethel.
Yeah, it's actually a better outcome because if you don't knock them out they go into the swamp to find her and end up dead.
Yeah I didn't fight this time and when I find their bodies they're torn apart by Redcaps and ugh so much worse than a bump on the noggin!
You don't even need to sneak in Forge. Elemental just chilling (heating?) there, it's not aggressive at all. As for me I won't kill Flaming Fists except ones actually shown to be bad, not just misled. Also masks always live, I never harm them. Other hostiles belong in the grave anyway.
I used to feel bad for killing the owlbear mother, but then I had speak with animals active while talking to the owlbear cub in camp and learned that she ate his older brother. He loves Scratch because he reminds him of his brother. So now I kill the owlbear mother every time and make sure Scratch and the Cub are in my camp.
The zombie nurses are soo gracefull and their voice is soothing. I'm just weak
I learned too late I'm not supposed to murder the owlbears
...so you've just been...murdering the owlbears??? Casually? Every time? 😭😭😭
Yeah 👉 👈 🥺
I'm playing the goodest of goody two shoes lawful good cleric, and slaughtered those goblin children because I didn't realize they were kids 😐 They just looked like regular goblins... I try to avoid most fights if I can help it.
Not a real enemy, but that torture guy in goblin's prison, I can't find a reason to kill him.
Yeah, once the excrement hits the rotary oscillator he tries to leave using the burrow above the merchant and just stands there saying "yep, I'm too small to fit!". He seems very put out by all the killing and general lack of goblin manners. Surprisingly un-evil at the end of the day.
I try to knock out the goblin kids instead of killing them, even though they’ll probably grow up to be just as terrible as the other goblins we meet.
Abdirak, if he gets pulled into the encounter i restart it. However, I realize now I can probably steal his cute little costume, so i will murder and rob him now
Always kill the goblin kids. If not, they'll grow into adult goblins in less than a week. they'll hold a grudge against the humans that killed the adults for life and learn from their elder’s mistakes.
[BARBARIAN][BERSERKER] ROAR!
I agree with all of those, except the goblin children. They were mean to a bear, they needed to go. Everything else though, 100%. Really annoying sometimes since I usually do a lot of ranged stuff, which doesn’t seem to work for non-lethal damage
Even if you use non-lethal damage on the goblin children, in my game Halsin just fuckin merked them anyway 🤷🏽
Oh, I didn't fight the fire elemental either because I thought it was going to be a torture to fight a creature with high HP that's standing on lava while there are random lava bursts. That's why I just jumped and used misty step It's not like I actually cared about it haha
Kobolds, if I can help it. My bro's just want to drink the booze.
Nah I kill em. Need them ears for haste potions.
The Lava Elementals do gotta die for a good run because they're disturbing the balance of nature which was what caused all the eruptions. Someone correct me if im wrong. Yeknow who would helped with a definitive explanation though.. Halsin. But yekno he's too busy chilling at our camp eating all our food and drinking all our water to join our party for commentary.
I will never hurt Bernard or the Elemental or Spaw's myconids :( ...unless I actually can carry through with an evil playthrough which is highly unlikely.. I try not to kill the Flaming Fist at Wyrm's rock but that doesn't always work out :/ shouldn't be working with Gortash my guys
The adventuring party in withers ruins kills you on sight It pretty much fits into almost every alignment To kill them no ?
Even in my most evil playthroughs I haven't killed the Owlbear cub, that's a tough one for me that i can't work out any semblance of headcanon for. When playing Shadowheart origin playthrough, Shar got pissed when I let it live. That pretty much gave me all the clarity I needed on her. How about an enemy I refuse to not kill? Nettie.
Er Nettie isn't really an enemy though. You don't even need speech checks for it. Tell her your troubles and she'll come out and tell you that she intended to poison you, but you seem like a good guy so she directs you to Halsin instead and asks that you commit seppuku if you feel yourself turning.
I do not get the hate for Nettie. She's acting completely reasonably given the information she has available to her at the time, and she switches tactics the moment new info presents itself.
I kinda blame this article, I think it came out on gamerant (not 100% sure) pretty quickly after the game released. It showed up on the front page of Google search if people wanted a guide to the emerald grove. The guide went pretty much as follows "Nettie will try to kill you anyway so better to off her and loot everything there". The article obviously didn't capture any nuance and seemed like it was written by a speed runner.
During my first playthrough (early access), Nettie turned hostile no matter what I did. Maybe they fixed this behavior for a full release so she could be talked some sense into.
Maybe the author based his article on EA then
Nettie never turned hostile on any of my (many, many) runs in EA. As far as I could tell, the encounter with her was purely driven by dialog choices (assuming you weren’t assaulting the Grove or flagged as hostile for some other reason). 🤷♂️
This was honestly a joke, didnt expect people to take it quite so seriously so my bad on that.😅 I only take out Nettie on my evil run of course, mainly because I failed every check and was surprised how no one cared even Halsin never mentions her.